When Muhammad was given the Koran, it was given to him by Satan, why, will if a man can not read or write, and the only knowlege he has is what he hears from other people in the region in which he lives, this would make him a good way to bring a lie into the world.People who will kill you because you are a non-beleiver, but in true we are the true believers, for we that believe Jesus is the Son of the Almighty by faith believe, those that don't believe are the Muslims, unless you have Jesus as your Lord and Saviour then you are one of the Faithful. Since Abraham the Arab people have been at war with Israel, which happened when Ishmael and his mother Hagar were run off by Sarah the wife of Abraham. At that time God sent an angel to Hagar and told her that Ishmael would slao be a Great Nation that would always be at war with his relative, yes I said Relatives, Issac and Ishmael are brothers, half brothers but brothers just the same. Read the word of the Almighty and hear what the Spirit of the Lord says to your Spirit, and the truth will set you free.
To some of that.
The word "great" doesn't always mean good, nor Godly.
Muhammad means the praised ones. Al-Qur'anul Kariem was told to Rasulullahu 'Alaihi wasallam through Jibril, the Greatest Angel - the Leader of all Angels. Satans are nothing for Muhammad Salallaahu 'Alaihi Wasallam. They are afraid of him. Even, they will be burnt if they dare to get closed to the greatest Prophet. I am sure, you know nothing about Islam, then you just create your own false assumption on this religion...!
No,I in order to understand I have read your holy book. It is all that one takes from one religion, twist it to conform to what the people are looking for in order to mislead the one who would believe in the true God, Hitler did this himself to cause hate to the true people of the Almighty. The almighty God of Abraham sent to use his only begotten son and whom ever believes in him shall not perish. But back to Hitler he murdered those who did not conform to his belief just as the Muslims are doing today to those who will not believe in the Greatest Lie Satan that old serpent has made known to the world. May the true Spirit of the Lord Jesus the Christ open your heart to the truth before it is to late and you are cast into the lake of Fire. Peace be with you.
Nice! You ended it with a threat from your god!
So God plans on burning people in a lake of fire eh?
Burning people forever is a pretty evil thing to do.
Conclusion: your God is evil.
Satan? didn't your parents teach you that there is no closet monster when you were a child?
We don't believe in monster. It is rubbish...!
We don't believe in monster. It is rubbish...!
Jesus is the Redemmed, sent to save all of us. If being a Hippy is bad because they looked more for Peace and not war then a Hippy I would rather be.
What are Satans ?
Satans are kinds of animals that hate good human. Since they were born into this world, they have been predestined to be thrown into the hell. Their live is under the command of their great king... iblis. Satan always tempt human to do bad things to their surroundings as well as the whole world. They hate peace situation; they detest the ones who do favour to the other; they play human off one and another in order they kill or fight; they whisper to every human that the bad things is good and the good thing is bad. They pass their live in frustration until the end of time. They are very bad creature; they are great drunkards, they are great beggars, they are great liers, they are great slanderers. They do all bad things to all human being behind their fatal weakness in their live.
The only religion that knows satan precisely is only ISLAM....! Satans are actually weak animals, bad animals...! They may be visible as well as invisible. They invisible satans are in the family of genie, the cursed genie --- meanwhile the visible ones are human themselves. Human that have characters as I mention above included in satan.
Satans hate Muslims to their bone, soul and skin. In their heart, actually, they believe in Allah Subhanahu wata'ala, the only God for the whole universe. But they are shy to admit it -- they are hypocritical creatures. All good things for satans are prohibitted in Islam. Islam prohibits adultery, hard drink, cheating, slandering, stealing, robbery, lesbian, homosexual, usury, and many more. They hate them so much.
They hate Muslims, because We are not willing to follow their ways.
Satans are nothing for Nabiyullah - Rasulullah Muhammad Salallaahu 'alaihi wasallam. They are so weak animals that they will be burnt if they try to get closed Muhammad Salallaahu 'alaihi Wasallam; even for any good Muslims in common, satans are nothing -- they are rubbish. They are even worse than the drop of dog and pig, the animal that is also prohibitted in Islam to take care and consume; but satans like them.
Satans detest the Muslims that recite Al-Qur'anul Kariem. They will run away from the Muslim houses in which Al-Qur'an is recited, else they will get killed by the content of the most holy book in the universe.
Satans hates the Words: ASH-HADU AL-LAA ILAA HA ILLALLAAHU .... WA-ASH-HADU ANNA- MUHAMMADARRASULULLAAH.....
Why would Allah create Satans if they are so evil?
You really do spin quite the fairy tale.
ASH-HADU AL-LAA ILAA HA ILLALLAAHU.....WA-ASHHADU ANNAMUHAMMADARRASULULLAAHHH....!
It has relationship to the aim of creating Nabiyullah ADAM 'Alaihis Salaam (you call him Adam) by Allah Subhanahu Wata'ala. Adam is honoured by all Muslims like other prophets; from the beginning, He had been created by Allah to live on the earth. He was predestined by Allah to stay for a while in the heaven, got Eva (We, Muslims call her Siti Hawa); they got married in the heaven.
Beside their existance, Allah also had predestined Iblis (a kind of genie - the king of Satans) to be the first unbeliever in this universe. Iblis did not want to appreciate the creation of Adam and decided to run against all what Allah asked him to do. As the consequency, Allah asked him to stay off the heaven, and predestined to be in the hell forever after the judgement day. He was in grudge, and promised ... until the end of time, he would mislead as many as Adam's descendants to be with him in the hell.
Iblis then went down to the earth and married some genies - the ones that had been existed on the earth far before the coming of human being onto the earth --- programmed his descendants to revenge to Nabiyullah Adam 'Alaihis Salam and all of his descendants; the descendants of Iblis are Satans. All of them will be in the hell after the judgement day. It is the reason why I was so ridiculous at the time I read the false statement written by reb4822 above; it is not us who hold false doctrine --- He does it. He knows nothing about Islam, but pretend as if he knew much. Even, he could not differentiate between Iblis and Satans. Satans are nothing for Rasulullah Muhammad Salallaahu 'Alaihi Wasallam. Even, Iblis -- the ancestor of Satans were so frightened of the Great Nabiyullah.
Iblis and Satans were created by Allah as such testers for human to distinguish between the good human and the bad ones. Allah lets satans do all efforts to mislead you, I, all people in this world to follow them; in the other hand, Allah endow some selected Human the power to encounter all bad ways whispered by satans. We, Muslims really realize this condition. This is not fairy tale, this is not false doctrine, this is not a zonk argument...... all things that I write here were from Nabiyullah Muhammad Salallaahu 'Alaihi Wasallam. And all of his words were coming from Jibril...! Allahu Akbar...!
Why would Allah create "bad humans" and then create testers for us to distinguish them? That makes no sense at all. Why doesn't he just create good humans, instead?
It sounds just like a fairy tale, full of magic and mystery and things that simply defy our natural world.
Sooo... you don't believe in monsters but you believe in "satans". They seem fairly monstrous to me.
I do suggest you to the read my Hub entitled "The UNSEENS"..... Monster is only a false story created by some people among you to frighten your kid. All Rasulullah since Nabiyullah Adam 'Alaihis Salam until Muhammad Salallaahu 'Alaihis Salam, had warned all their followers to be careful to all actions done by Satans.
" Monster is only a false story created by some people among you to frighten your kid" or someone you seek to control.
I hope that my children (when I have them) are more scared of rapist than the boogy-man or Satans... both of which are intangible, not real and figments of the imagination created to try and explain something (previously) explainable.
Let me ask you this.. technically these Satans are human, right?
If so, to follow this reasoning, what happens when these satans breed with your gods people (which is likely to happen over a 2000+ year time span)?
I guess the child of that coupling would be a torn individual, constantly fighting the urge to do both good and evil... thus the turmoil of the soul.
I am having a hard time wrapping my head around this theology of yours. Does it not scream fantasy to you? It seems very fantastical to me. Gave me flashback to Tolkien and H.G. Wells.
Just to put this out there, what if, I just as Muhammad, can hear the voice of God you would call me crazy, it is to the savation of all that concerns me, that all of us be saved, But unless you believe in that Jesus is the Son of the Most High you will be forever lost. Peace be with you.
reb4822 "The truth will set you free", that is misleading and deceitful. Lies are laoded with partial truths.
When the scripture is taken out of context, it opens the door to false doctrine and Satan is an expert at doing this. I know that you didn't do this on purpose but please be more careful.
The truth is this... Jesus said to the children of Abraham (the Jews who believed him), "If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth and the truth will set you free." John 8:31-32
I know ... and so should you ... know ... where we get these Ideas of Evil from ... and who gives us the false Concepts, of Reality ... from whence all Fallacy, flows ...
For, as Humans, its our Duty to Understand ... That primarily, all Faiths, Beliefs and Religious Scriptures ... Follow The Truth ... That basically there are only two kinds of Humans ... the Good and the Bad ones ...
Thus while Knowing ... That there is only One Truth .... should we allow Satan ... to sow dissent and doubt among our kind ... should we assist the accursed by following his designs ... ?
Please Spare the Koran ... Muhammad ... Islam ... and Muslims ... from Prejudice's tirades ...
Do you know ... one of his followers ... with a Muslim name ... [and your granted honor of ... Sir !] Salman Rushdie ... is the author of "Satanic Verses" ... That another, Osama bin Laden ... also bearing a Muslim name ... at the behest of his like others ... are jointly responsible for causing ... all this senseless bloodshed in today's world.
That Ariel Sharon, a Jew ... is the accursed murderer of helpless men, women and children of Sabra and Shatila camps ... That Hitler and Stalin are Christians, gone insane ... That Pol Pot was a Buddhist ... and so were Einstein and Oppenheimer ... as much as Harry Truman ... the murderers of Hiroshima and Nagasaki ...!
We Muslims follow The Ordained ... and we do not need anyone's Certification to Believe that The Way we Follow, is the Ordained Way of Peace ... The Way of Love and Respect, for all Humankind...
Do you know what the Word, Islam ... means ... It means and stands for ... Peace ... in the world ... and the Hereafter.
"When Muhammad was given the Koran, it was given to him by Satan".
Must be hell living in a world where a good deal of the world's population follows Satan.
You can follow only one God, this is the God that sent to us his son inorder for us to have salvation. Jesus is the son of the true God, those who don't believe will perish in the lake of fire with all who believe in the teachings of Muhamm. All one has to do is open your eyes and see for yourself, and not what Government tells for most of what they say is lies.
Do you have any idea how arrogant this sounds? Your belief lays the foundation for conflict and wars.
Ironically, it is you that is being controlled...since religion is one of the most powerful tools at the government's disposal.
yes and if this were a political forum we would be supporting some warmonger or if this were an economics and someone said Reagan.. others would protest this too...
If catholicism had not have been the way they were, way back when, with the inquisition then Christianity would not have such a bad name.
If the koran, which was delivered by an angel.. the bible delivered by God to moses... if the koran is false, which it is then metaphorically, satan would have delivered it. It is a standard Christian belief of a personified entity of evil bent on destroying mankind. Supervillans can do all sorts of things... but i have trouble believing that God gave permission to allow ha sawtawn to deliver a book of such ... terribleness.
So whether the originator of the koran be a man, the masons or satan the point is still on the table whether governments use this for control or not
Actually believing in God is liberating, its not controlling but allowing goodness to rule instead of malice, envy, jealousy.. etc. Those are controlling influences that control more than any government. Goodness has to be pushed into activity and the ability to push this type of goodness is a gift of God.
Protestantism is just like Islam. It's about worshiping a man-made book.
And lets just look at Christianity at the time of the 'inquisition': Elizabethan England under the protestants had more violence and torture than at any other time before or since. Fact.
catholicism is not christianity. Fact
ya might want to open the history books on england again and discover that much of the violence was political.
Yes, everything after the reformation was political because protestantism killed religion. It trampled on the faith and culture of the people. Thereafter, protestant England took the same message around the world and created a huge empire by trampling on the religion and culture of as many other nations as it could. By its nature protestantism is political and about social order. By its nature it is divisive. The giveaway's in the title.
Good points, Lizzie. The "original sin" had to do with similar divisiveness.
Perhaps, though, Christianity had been made comatose much earlier ... say the ecumenical council presided over by Justinian, the Byzantine emperor. That royal ego arrested the sitting pope, and jailed him until he would submit to the emperor's ideas of how Christianity should be run. Then, "mysteriously," on the pope's way back home after years of incarceration, he died.
The Catholic church claims Peter as their first pope, but how many popes have ever walked on water? My guess is only the one, and Peter likely didn't know that he had been elected to that lofty position.
I suspect that there is a great deal about Christianity that needs re-evaluating -- getting back to the fundamentals, but not as the so-called "fundamentalists" would have us believe.
The biggest problem is in ego and the hidden motives borne out of it. That's what ruined religion, time and time again.
And the antidote to ego is humility. (There! Now, that I've said it, my ego feels so much better. And therein lies a real Catch-22! Assertiveness, self-righteousness, and such all strengthen the ego.)
lone77star, I'm sorry for the delayed response.
I don't quite know what you mean by, 'Christianity had been made comatose much earlier'. The history of the Popes is both fascinating and outrageous. Pretty much anything a person can be accused of appears in the history of the Church. There have been some hideous ones as well as some saintly ones (a bit like American presidents) but the doctrine and Apostolic tradition were not changed, and the faith of the common people, crucially, remained uncorrupted.
Peter was first Pope yes. I cannot imagine he accepted this fact without the utmost gravity or sense of purpose. He stuck by it to his grisly death after all. Popes aren't there to set themselves up as saints, and nor, for the most part, do they. They represent the Rock: The absolute and unchanging nature of truth. I don't think that ego has anything to do with the structure of the Church. The Church is the body which reiterates the foundations of Christianity. Again, its a bit like the American constitution. I believe the constitution is repeated daily by all American students so that there can be no twisting or hiding, or overly personal inetrpretations of the real meanings within it. It would be no good saying to everyone to only take which bit they wanted from it. To deny any part of the constitution is to undermine the whole constitution and people are punished accordingly.
The Church is not a legal authority but a similar constitution is in place which is entirely morality based.
Humility is certainly the greatest virtue but I can't think that anyone has achieved it completely. We cannot abandon the ego completely or else we would have no desire to be closer to God. Ego is the sense of self. We need it, but we need to keep it contained.
I don't think that Christianity needs re evaluating. People just need to be properly educated about it.
You are quite right about humility though. It is that age-old problem. How do you focus on being humble whilst also forgetting yourself? And if you have achieved humility and know it, aren't you then back to square one?
The constitution of America is a 7000 word document. Our children do not repeat it daily. Please stick to a topic you might be able to argue you know a little about. America is not one of those topics, judging by your post.
I am happy to be enlightened about this. I should have put a question mark when I mentioned it.
And also, I do not mean to use America as an example of something bad because I do not see it that way at all. America is a great nation.
As are all sovereign nations. Yet, my point was your post was so far off base as to the reality of our perception of our constitution and the way we raise our children to view it as to reflect that you have no knowledge of us.
It is not a dead document we bow to. We do not all interpret the entire document the same way and we are not encouraged to. It cannot be compared to religion.
I think you know what I'm getting at. Children in American schools do some kind of salute to the flag of a morning. The fact that you know your constitution is 7000 words long is an indication of how well Americans know what they stand for. Ask the average Brit what it stands for to be British, and they would be stuck for words. Not a good thing.
I absolutely do think that you can compare the constitution with the Creed or with the ten commandments. Both are revered rather than bowed to, and both are kept alive by continual repetition. How can a document be dead if it is practiced regularly and still resonates truth? If you do not believe the creed of another nation, or in this case, the culture, it does not render it invalid. I am not Jewish but I recognise and respect the practice of Torah as valid and comparable to other cultures.
There is also room for interpretation , which is encouraged within reason. For example, do not kill, really does mean, do not kill. One God, really does mean one God. A tradition is only dead if it is not lived but merely repeated without thought. I like what Rabbi Sachs said: ...'fundamentalism is the attempt to move from text to application without interpretation '. Brilliant.
First. You still don't get it. I know the number of words because I googled it. After you showed a lack of knowledge. And our kids are no different from your kids. The average one has no idea what the constitution is. Not until they grow old enough to be appreciative that they were free enough to not care; and that the document (especially the Bill of Rights) is fluid enough that as adults they need to start caring and ensure their voice is heard.
Second. I will agree that you can compare the documents. But you are wrong about fundamentalism. It is no different from catholicism, to the casual observer. You both tumble into interpretation so heavily you miss the point. You are all applying your own interpretation with a heavy hand on others and can't see it. Your applications are quite similar.
exactly... the protestantism there in England, ireland and scotland is different than the protestantism Luther encouraged. The wars and conflicts are age old, steeped in culture and tradition.
The religion that was ruling before protestantism was catholicism and the reformation under that regime was needed, so thanks to protestantism - reform happened but not without a struggle.
It has been so long in the history now that to see protestantism as a hero is difficult to distinguish.
English protestantism, in particular Puritanism, which gets its name from the attempt to 'purify' the church of its Catholicism, comes from Luther/Calvinist thinking. It would not have taken off to the degree it did, had not Henry VIII waged war against the church in England, which was a mighty force in Europe. The church needed reform at that time. There was corruption and wrong teaching in the upper ranks and it was being reformed by the truly faithful in and around the 1540s by the likes of the great Thomas More, Erasmus and John Fisher. The actual Reformation didn't reform the church but instead set up a new religion. Catholicism was banned. Freedom of faith was banned. The Puritans were extremists. They banned dancing, music, wearing colour, even celebrating Christmas.
You are right that in England, protestantism was never heroic, since it came about by force and bloodshed, which is not true of Catholicism.
And seeing as the Koran is largely derivative of the bible, that's a very good deal of the worlds population!
Yes, look around, who is murdering who? Muslim are even mudering there own people, because the hate all that would be good. Read your Bible and ask for understanding from God and not Man for man willlead you astray.
"for man willlead you astray".
Went and looked at your profile before commening.
Robert; you are a man ... are you trying to lead us astray?
It seems like in places like Iraq and Afghanistan they are both killing each other. Oh...I forgot, war is not murder.
There are three fingers pointing back at you.
Yes, a 2000 year old book should suffice. No need using our intellect to discern reality.
when you get into the 'do whatever you have to do' mentality of islam and muslim. anything does happen.
The worst people get from christians is have a nice day (or in some cases the truth about their evil doings) I can't remember the last time a christian shot someone over their religious belief in my neighborhood or country (canada)
A lot of dispute over there centers around waterfront property, water, land issues and population distribution. Iraq has lots of money, as does arabia and a couple of other countries due to oil, and money as we know makes people crazy in their ambitions.
The 2000 yr old book does not replace our intellect to discern reality it helps us to handle our immediate reality in many ways that a heathen would never think of. And remember the book is not our only source of guidance every day, God himself leads us by the spirit.
So you are way off the path in saying what you said.
Satan is non-existent, so how did Mohammad get it from something that doesn't exist?
So you are saying that God does not existe and you are waiting for little green men to come get you.
The same way joseph smith got his golden tablets which no one saw.
IF the masons are behind the creation of islam, mohammed may have been their boy.
since there are strong similarities between catholic and islam perhaps the perpetrators of catholicism needed another weapon to keep the heat off themselves - like they used the jesuits.
brothery, its completely absurd to compare Islam with Catholicism. They are different in every way. Islam started with a book, Catholicism did not. Islam cannot show any images of man or nature in its Mosques as it would be blasphemous, Catholics churches are packed full of images of everything under the sun and every mystical thing it can imagine. Islam believes the world is dominated by the devil, Catholics believe it is dominated by good. Musilims say 'an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth,' Catholics say 'turn the other cheek'. Nor does the Catholic church order Fatwahs against people, regardless of what Dan Browne and his Da Vinci Code would like to have you think.
islam have beads to pray with, the women wear quite similar attire, jesus is just a prophet. mosques and cathedrals are very close together. Mary is reverenced by both. Jesus' diety is attacked in both as mary gets the higher ranking in catholicism, jesus is only minor prophet in islam.
These are a few, there are more.
All major religions use beads to aid prayer and meditation.
Catholic women wear what they like. Becoming a nun is a choice and based on the imitation of Mary's modesty and chastity.
Mosques and Cathedrals are similar inasmuch as they are both very large to fit lots of people. Its called organised religion.
Mary's position as great woman and holy mother does not threaten the status of the one and only God.
I would Suggest that it was given to Muhammad by a Greater Demon who is looking to take people from Gods true Path and gain glory for himself
Actually the Qu'ran is a confabullation of what Momo thought were the correct stories of the Bible. And that is evident by his misunderstandings of the stories and his mistakes in historic aspoects of the stories. And it is not hard to understand how a man growing up in a time when oral tradition was passed along, and not much writing was used, in that part of the world. Could learn to speak so brilliantly and masterfully. Being illiterate does not mean he is stupid.
And lets not forget he was a master orator, momo never wrote a word of the quran, it was all spoken, and at times he could not even remember the surahs he had given previously. It is in the sunnah themselves that he would change and re-write surahs he forgot. Allah even had to dedicate a piece of the quran to condoning momos changes, as though allah himself had changed them. As is suppored by the verse reading... Whatever a Verse (revelation) do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, We bring a better one or similar to it.}[2: 106].
many do not know the quran also has abbrogation involved and there is where it gets dangerous. Allah in effect canceled the conciliatory verse to non-believers and Jews and replaced them with the more violent verses of Jihad. A fact too many people ignore.
And yes most likely demonically inspired.
And God also told Hagar that Ishmael would give birth to a great nation and 12 kings would arise from his line. I fnd that interesting, considering the 12 imam is awaited in Islam.
Why are they waiting for something called imam? The 12 sons of ishmael are listed in genesis 25:13-17
Genesis 25:12 Now these are the generations of Ishmael, Abraham's son, whom Hagar the Egyptian, Sarah's handmaid, bare unto Abraham:
Genesis 25:13 And these are the names of the sons of Ishmael, by their names, according to their generations: the firstborn of Ishmael, Nebajoth; and Kedar, and Adbeel, and Mibsam,
Genesis 25:14 And Mishma, and Dumah, and Massa,
Genesis 25:15 Hadar, and Tema, Jetur, Naphish, and Kedemah:
Genesis 25:16 These are the sons of Ishmael, and these are their names, by their towns, and by their castles; twelve princes according to their nations.
Genesis 25:17 And these are the years of the life of Ishmael, an hundred and thirty and seven years: and he gave up the ghost and died; and was gathered unto his people.
i wouldn't mind an answer to this question
According to a few sources I looked at, the name is not Imam. Imam is like an Islamic pope. Mahdi is prophecized as the last imam before the year of the haj. Parallels between haj and apocalypse are evident. Parallels between Antichrist and Mahdi are evident.
So the 12 nations from ishmael are 12 prophets that span millennium and each one is an imam.
Not real keen on those details, but that's what I would envision. The 'last imam' implies that 11 caliphs have collapsed. Or perhaps its a departure from traditional ways because there are many more recognized caliphs these days.
Nobody will agree with what I'm going to say.
Same-Old Same-old. I'll soon be done spouting off.
The church teaches that the holy people will be taken out of this world or 42 months while the world is given unto the Beast that rose up out of the sea and the False Prophet.
I think they are right in this interpretation (not sure)
The church also teaches that a day in prophesy is as a year for us. I think they are just a little off in this intrepretation. Just a little! (about 33%)
SOooo by their interpretation the true believers will be taken up for 1260 years while the counterfit ......
(counterfit as in except for a miner flaw, looks kinda like, at first glanse looks JUST like, and will fool many) religion and false Prophet are left here on earth.
I think I'll leave it like this and see if anyone wants to think about it ???
the original 12 of the 12 who kept the Law, not all of us!
Isaiah in the O.T. His profacy to the Jews, that those who kept the law would be raised up, He did not promise we all would be raised up
it was the 144,000 of the original ones who agreed kept the law, thier sons and daughters and children, Gods chosen, of 12 tribes. I believe, thats what was being referd to, not all of us who claim to be true believers will be taken up. Is what I am refering to. I am not 100%, but I think that was what was meant.
I think you are absolutely correct. "ABSOLUTELY"
This is one of those tiny things of which I spoke a couple posts back.
Neighbor came by back in a while
Christ promised all would be raised up, even those who don't believe.
i'd like it if you would quote the verse for that 'partial raising'.
I think that we can look at any true story, and inject an untruth ever so small, if put in the proper place, and use that tiny untruth and chance the whole intent of a truthul story.
Exactly Jerami. Many look for the complete opposite of Christ in the Anti-Christ. I would say he would be more a slightly twisted version, just enough, but not to much.
24. Robbery commanded
Ex 3:21,22/ Ex 12:35,36
Lev 19:13/ Ex 20:15
25. Lying approved and sanctioned
Josh 2:4-6/ James 2:25/ Ex 1:18-20/ 1 Kings 22:21,22
Ex 20:16/ Prov 12:22/ Rev 21:8
26. Hatred to the Edomite sanctioned
2 Kings 14:7,3
Hatred to the Edomite forbidden
27. Killing commanded
28. The blood-shedder must die
The blood-shedder must not die
29. The making of images forbidden
The making of images commanded
30. Slavery and oppression ordained
Gen 9:25/ Lev 25:45,46/ Joel 3:8
Slavery and oppression forbidden
Is 58:6/ Ex 22:21/ Ex 21:16/ Matt 23:10
31. Improvidence enjoyed
Matt 6:28,31,34/ Luke 6:30,35/ Luke 12:3
1 Tim 5:8/ Prov 13:22
32. Anger approved
Eccl 7:9/ Prov 22:24/ James 1:20
33. Good works to be seen of men
Good works not to be seen of men
34. Judging of others forbidden
Judging of others approved
1 Cor 6:2-4/ 1 Cor 5:12
35. Christ taught non-resistance
Matt 5:39/ Matt 26:52
Christ taught and practiced physical resistance
Luke 22:36/ John 2:15
36. Christ warned his followers not to fear being killed
Christ himself avoided the Jews for fear of being killed
37. Public prayer sanctioned
1 Kings 8:22,54, 9:3
Public prayer disapproved
38. Importunity in prayer commended
Importunity in prayer condemned
39. The wearing of long hair by men sanctioned
Judg 13:5/ Num 6:5
The wearing of long hair by men condemned
1 Cor 11:14
40. Circumcision instituted
41. The Sabbath instituted
The Sabbath repudiated
Is 1:13/ Rom 14:5/ Col 2:16
42. The Sabbath instituted because God rested on the seventh day
The Sabbath instituted because God brought the Israelites
out of Egypt
43. No work to be done on the Sabbath under penalty of death
Ex 31:15/ Num 15:32,36
Jesus Christ broke the Sabbath and justified his disciples in
John 5:16/ Matt 12:1-3,5
44. Baptism commanded
Baptism not commanded
1 Cor 1:17,14
45. Every kind of animal allowed for food.
Gen 9:3/ 1 Cor 10:25/ Rom 14:14
Certain kinds of animals prohibited for food.
46. Taking of oaths sanctioned
Num 30:2/ Gen 21:23-24,31/ Gen 31:53/ Heb 6:13
Taking of oaths forbidden
47. Marriage approved
Gen 2:18/ Gen 1:28/ Matt 19:5/ Heb 13:4
1 Cor 7:1/ 1 Cor 7:7,8
48. Freedom of divorce permitted
Deut 24:1/ Deut 21:10,11,14
49. Adultery forbidden
Ex 20:14/ Heb 13:4
Num 31:18/ Hos 1:2; 2:1-3
50. Marriage or cohabitation with a sister denounced
Deut 27:22/ Lev 20:17
Abraham married his sister and God blessed the union
Gen 20:11,12/ Gen 17:16
51. A man may marry his brother's widow
A man may not marry his brother's widow
52. Hatred to kindred enjoined
Hatred to kindred condemned
Eph 6:2/ Eph 5:25,29
53. Intoxicating beverages recommended
Prov 31:6,7/ 1 Tim 5:23/ Ps 104:15
Intoxicating beverages discountenanced
Prov 20:1/ Prov 23:31,32
54. It is our duty to obey our rulers, who are God's ministers
and punish evil doers only
It is not our duty to obey rulers, who sometimes punish the
good and receive unto themselves damnation therefor
Ex 1:17,20/ Dan 3:16,18/ Dan 6:9,7,10/ Acts 4:26,27/
Mark 12:38,39,40/ Luke 23:11,24,33,35
55. Women's rights denied
Gen 3:16/ 1 Tim 2:12/ 1 Cor 14:34/ 1 Pet 3:6
Women's rights affirmed
Judg 4:4,14,15/ Judg 5:7/ Acts 2:18/ Acts 21:9
56. Obedience to masters enjoined
Col 3:22,23/ 1 Pet 2:18
Obedience due to God only
Matt 4:10/ 1 Cor 7:23/ Matt 23:10
57. There is an unpardonable sin
There is not unpardonable sin
I wasn't hiding from this post.
Just saw it.
I'll check these verses out later and let ya know what I think. was just taking a break from working out side.
Brake is over.
Don't bother checking the verses its an earnest post... all out of context, all misinterpreted.
Its a laugh hes still got it in him
the indoctrination of hate doctrine runs deep, me thinks.
If ya do ... make a hub out of it!
I bet the red face shines to the edges of the earth
ill stab this one however:
37. Public prayer sanctioned
1 Kings 8:22,54, 9:3 (OT... didnt ya notice lol)
Public prayer disapproved
Matt 6:5,6 (NT... didn't ya notice)
and this one:
27. Killing commanded
Ex 32:27 (the golden calf incident, God used the levites as a tool of judgment as under the law certain things were penalized by death - god is the law and God decided.)
Ex 20:13 (Ten commandments lol this is an exhort to people to not MURDER but to bring to judgment transgressors that the law may decide)
Totally without context... my ribs are sore...
Lets do one more:
53. Intoxicating beverages recommended
Prov 31:6,7/ 1 Tim 5:23/ Ps 104:15
Intoxicating beverages discountenanced
Prov 20:1/ Prov 23:31,32
screw it i think ill make a hub.... and email ya direct buddy
By the way drunkeness was frowned upon and alcohol addiction not the occasional glass of wine or as some translations go... GRAPEJUICE - unfermented wine.
Which atheist sight did ya pick this off cobbie?
Did you actually do some research after reading this?
Ya know you can't believe even half the stuff you read on atheist sights
Thats my laugh for the day.. thanks!
I don't do hate. That is a religious speciality.
Everything that doesn't fit your personal beliefs are out of context. Reminds me of paara!
I think you mean "cobber" and I am no "cobber" of yours. Too little substance, too big an ego for me to call a "cobber".
ive been through 8/10s of the list and i cannot believe you believe these are contradictions. Especially some of them. Really earnest, 1 cor 7... you think paul is actually saying marriage is not permitted - i just about fell of my chair.
I really gotta say that my heart is so saddened to realize how this post proves anything other than the fact that you should stay away from the bible.
Yes context is completely beyond you and rationality escapes out the door also.
I don't know what to say i wanna give you a hug and tell you God loves you not your interpretations though (although i think you just blindly copied and pasted this from some poor saps sight who doesn't know his bible either - please tell me you did)
ego?.. i predicted you would fail and you did. You are not the strong and terrifying source you think you are. Ego goes on your foot, for now i am feeling helpless to help you.
I wish you hadn't posted that post.
have a nice day, if you can, if this was the sum of your knowledge about bible how can you even show up here, let alone claim to know more than the christians.
You totally do hate.
Hate is what brings you into this forum. Hate is all over your mocking one liners and cynical short commentaries and your name calling and the posts where you just post false information and then parade around like you did a good thing.
Oh you do hate alright.
45. Every kind of animal allowed for food.
1 Cor 10:25/ Rom 14:14 (NT testament)
Certain kinds of animals prohibited for food.
Deut 14:7,8 (OT testament)
The NT and OT are different dispensations that God gave at diffferent times in history. The OT is defined by the books of the Law or Torah. In these books are many laws that OT people had to abide by. The NT is defined by the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ in which the OT laws were ended.
Do you really think eating shellfish will ruin our walk with God today?
Now that's a riot.
Accusing all of hate who don't believe your myth, then displaying that hate in your threads is enough evidence for me of where the hate comes from. The bible is the source of course.
The Torah is only applicable for abuse and threats against non believers in the whole myth apparently.
again with the bad interpretations
Of course you would see hate, Hate is your program, man. All you see is hate, killing, death, murder - that's it.
To show you love is just wasted energy. Scriptures that show Gods love you have no ear for. John 3:16 is probably your most hated scripture.
Hate hate hate that's all you have. Its so plainly evident and what is worse is you put that on others and say they hate. Perfect projectionism, psychologically speaking.
The bible is not my source for hate, but it is yours and even though you are wrong to apply it, you do.
Good luck with that
of course you never answered my question about shellfish. Can you man up to this difficult question mr ceo of some mysterious cbmc
contradiction # 57
Mark 3:29 But he that SHALL blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:
shall blaspheme puts this into a constant tense. Its not a one time thing but continuing... people who continually rant against God cannot find forgiveness because their hearts are not in the right position to accept forgiveness and because this condition of blaspheming or ranting and raving against God continues they are in danger of judgment.
Acts 13:38 Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man (Jesus) is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:
Acts 13:39 And by him (Jesus) all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.
these people are not in a state of blaspheme they are in a state of believing and are justified from all things through Jesus - not some other god - just for clarity sake.
No contradiction just another sloppy interpretation.
You seem to have mistaken blaspheme and believe for the same word.
How did you do that?
If we assume Islam is false doctrine, handed down by Satan then it would only follow that the Catholic church is right that the Protestants were misled by Satan when they broke from Catholicism. The Catholic church is wrong(we know this, thanks to the Protestants) having been misled at the Council of Nicea (by Satan). Jesus was a Jew, after all; so Paul was misled by Satan with his interpretation (or so some in Islam have said).
Jesus spent some time in the desert with Satan, so he's suspect too. If you remember your old testament, Satan spent some time in the company of God, so I think it's obvious God might be suspect also.
The only safe stand is atheism. They are the only ones who haven't had a relationship with Satan. They couldn't have, since they don't believe he exists.
logic? how dare you.....lol
Might not be logical, but it couldn't sound any crazier then all this infighting over who owns the road to God.
aaaaaggggggghhhhhhhhh.........."we know this, thanks to the protestants"....you are truly lost lady.
yah paying indulgences to get the dead out of hell
Praying to dead saints who aren't even around
Looks good on a resume
Thank God for protestants
keep going...when we die, we die right? No communication with the dead cos they're dead yes? And yet we go on for eternity. So what is heaven and hell all about? Do we die when we die or don't we?
We die when we die, we do.
When we die we die. No communication with the dead. Mediums and spiritualists who communicate with the dead are completely false and lairs, self deceived in their thirst for self importance or just complete shams and scams trying to make profit on others peoples earnest desires by way of their ignorance of scripture.
Most of what people believe comes from TV.
Heaven is where the focal point of God is: beyond the cosmos. We never get there, we inherit the earth just like as in the beginning. God is full circle. Hell... obliteration, to perish, cease to exist.
brothery, this is another point of view of yours which is news to me. Our understandings of the soul are completely different from each other, nevertheless I find yours interesting. The soul is what defines us, in my book. It is born when we are born and, as non-physical matter, it cannot die. It cannot cease to exist. I like how CS Lewis puts it: we are not a body with a soul, but rather a soul with a body. Hell is the absence of God, because God is love.
You say that when we die, we inherit the earth. What good is the earth to the dead?
That's odd, how can either of you gain an understanding of something that doesn't exist? It's like trying to gain an understanding of leprechauns.
And, you know this how? Where did you get this information?
What makes you think the soul doesn't exist?
Yah but we are not dead this is the beauty of a thing called resurrection.
Souls are not immortal, the bible does not teach that any part of us is immortal.
Genesis 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and LIVE FOREVER:
Genesis 3:24 So he drove out the man;
God stopped us from immortality.
But we get immortality after judgment
Revelation 22:2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the TREE OF LIFE, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
Revelation 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have RIGHT (access) to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
It was a joke lizzieboo. You guys need to stop fighting over who has the best line on god. If he exists, this whole shebang has got to be an embarassment to him. It would be to me.
By that logic you should all love my avatar. he called alot of people out on the carpet for their associations. And HUAC should be your golden standard by that logic. So logic is probrably not the word you want there.
Earnest, I haven't checked out every verse that you listed above, but of the ones that I have ???
If you do not understand why they are not contradicting each other ??? Well; I just do not have the literary talent to put it into words for you to understand.
In some of these instances a MAN was expressing his opinion and you credit God as having said it.
strong wine is said to be good for the weary of heart, and stronger drink is good for the terminally ill,
but a wise and healthy man should not waste his talents by wasting his days getting stupid drunk.
Is this a contradiction saying that strong drink is good
strong drink is bad.
call it however you like,
Sometimes it is wrong for your dog to sh=t in your neighbors yard and sometimes it may be recomended.
If you do not see the difference, get rid of your dod.
Is it OK to steel back that which was stolen from you.
Some times it could be and sometimes not.
I'll check out the rest of these references that you have given.
I think I would do better to answer them one at a time.
I think I'll do that, one at a time over the next few days.
Jeremy you are flogging a dead myth, there is no way to hide from the contradictory words in a book filled with psychotic scripture.
I know this first hand from the many church theologians I have had this argument with in the past, arguing as a christian and a foundation member of CBMC I may add.
The same results are obtainable from the quoran too.
Psychosis is it's own detractor.
No catholic nothing. You mean you don't know? Amazing!
You don't need non believers to question this stuff. you can't even agree amongst yourselves as to what any of it means.
So you hate catholics as well?
I'll add them to the list of people you can't accept as christian.
You should read more... I have never been a catholic.
still didn't answer the question.
Are you just flaunting some lie to make yourself seem more important than you really are?
You don't understand why jesus died on the cross .. so you weren't born again, You say the bible contradicts itself and yet that is just sloppy interpretation on your part, others as well.
Do you drink LOTS of alcohol on a daily basis?
I don't lie
I don't drink except a beer on a hot day occasionally.
I don't bother with fools who have no real arguments and make snide attacks and tell misleading lies about others.
Do some research before calling anyone else a liar!
there you go with projectionism again.
When you post a post and someone puts it in proper context and you continue to post the same post as though nothing has ever happened, but you did read the response... this is an act of lying.
Not calling you a liar, i'm sure in some things you don't lie, but look at the situation and if the shoe fits.....
oh so you lived in chicago... don't see your name mentioned anywhere.
So this is what it takes to get a direct answer. I'm hardly convinced you had anything to do with this organization.
see the organization i am a founding member of
You called me a liar again. Read about CBMC. It is a world wide organisation.
Can you not read?
If you like to check, I was a foundation member here in Australia.
You really don't like to admit you are wrong, you would rather make up stuff.
if you are going to make a prolonged attack on me about CBMC you should at least read who they are!
im looking for evidence that you are a founding member. It might be true that you attended... i know they are a world wide whatever, but thats not whats in question here.
Just show the evidence and stop dancing around
4 posts for one solution...
49. Adultery forbidden
Ex 20:14/ Heb 13:4
no question about the forbiddeness of adultery
Num 31:18/ Hos 1:2; 2:1-3
Numbers 31:18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.
Wheres the adultery in this? Adultery is married woman and divorced women.... there are none such in this verse or the surrounding verses.
Hosea 1:2 The beginning of the word of the LORD by Hosea. And the LORD said to Hosea, Go, take unto thee a wife of whoredoms and children of whoredoms: for the land hath committed great whoredom, departing from the LORD.
He married a prostitute. So where is the adultery in this. Marriage is okay with God. Do you think this is wrong because she was a whore? How unforgiving. Still no adultery.
and forget hosea 2:1-3 thats not even close either.
Another supposed contradiction that is not a contradiction at all.
So far you are zero for 32.
So you are caught out in a lie, that is simple enough, so now you want proof that I was a foundation member as well?
Are you willing to agree that CBMC exist yet?
Who is telling lies here and doesn't have big enough goolies to just admit it I wonder?
I said I was a foundation member.
You say a lot of things and i don't believe most of it.
what lie am i caught up in? If you are referring to the existence of cbmc, since i now understand the words of the acronym, which before were a mystery to me, i see it exists. No problem.
about the founding member, however....
33. Good works to be seen of men
Matthew 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
Good works not to be seen of men
Matthew 6:1 Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.
Good works are not alms. Good works are the things a person does. If christ is guiding my life, my works should be Christ oriented. Let people see this. Works G2041 - toil, effort or occupation, an act, deed, labour.
Alms G1654 - compassionateness as exercised towards the poor, beneficence, benefaction.
An alms is not the same as works.
What i hate is people who wrongly tell me what i hate.
I don't hate catholics - i dislike the catholic system.
This should be fundamentally obvious - even to your poor interpretation ability. Lets run through the basics again shall we.
What did jesus say
Love your neighbor
What does this mean about sinners?
Love the sinner
What did jesus say about sin?
Go and sin no more
What does this say about sin?
dislike the sin
So what do we get?
Love the sinner, dislike the sin.
or didn't they teach this in the cbmc
It remains absolutely astounding to me that such "devoutly" religious people can justify hatred and perpetuate it so freely. From what I see, so many of the "devout" must suffer horribly from conflicted consciences, and perhaps, therefore, lash out at each other over the most ridiculous pettinesses.
I think you are all victims of your twisted thinking. Victims, obviously, are very violent people.
I hope you can examine yourselves at some point and figure out you don't have to be so self conflicted and therefore, don't have to lash out at others because of your overwhelming self doubt.
I hope you realize that we have no overwhelming self doubt and that your opinion of what we should do is just that - your opinion.
Do you know which are the christians and which are not? Mostly what happens in here is a christian says something and then a atheist says something really stupid, in which the error of the atheist thought pattern is easy to refute but then the atheist says something that is way more stupid.
Thanks for dropping by
I realize it is pointless to comment, but his statement was dead on. I find it interesting that you immediately attack the atheists. It had nothing to do with the argument between atheists and christians; and everything to do with the fact that the christians, at times, appear as if a group of cockroaches under glass, the imagined food source long since gone and the survival of the 'faithful' is tied to the ability to cannibalize one another.
Do you not see how much you all stab at each other? A few excerpts;
‘I know more than the average wanna-be evangelical Christian knows about their own protestant faith….
Protestantism is just like Islam. It's about worshiping a man-made book.
the Catholic Chuch is and has been a disgrace to Christianity, and I see very bad things in store for the Popes
I am smarter than the average Christian
Yes, everything after the reformation was political because protestantism killed religion. It trampled on the faith.
When Muhammad was given the Koran, it was given to him by Satan
Considering the true Sabbath is friday night to Saturday night... they (the catholics) are oblivious to the fact that they might as well piss on sunday.
catholicism is not christianity. Fact
And that's just the christians insulting each other in a couple of local threads. At least atheists can claim a desire for a greater good. I'm still trying to figure out what, other than ego, drives the bickering christians.
You should either spend more or less time in here.
Once you discover what christianity actually is, you will know that catholicism is not of that.
I don't know what the problem is.. its fine for people to hash out discrepancies, wrong interpretations, ideologies. Christians are not offended by discussing scripture with other Christians, most of us delight in it. The forum is actually for just that sort of thing.
What you see "cockroaches under glass, the imagined food source long since gone and the survival of the 'faithful' is tied to the ability to cannibalize one another" is not viewed that way to us.
jerami put out his say and here's what one non christian replied with:
"Jeremy you are flogging a dead myth, there is no way to hide from the contradictory words in a book filled with psychotic scripture".
Did you perceive this as two christians bickering? because this is not the case.
As I stated, it was pointless to comment. If you noticed, I didn't include the post you referenced, probably because it was obviously a discussion between a believer and a non believer.
If you think that when you attack a fellow christian in the manner that I referenced; it is little more than politely discussing differences of agreement in interpretation of scripture, then you are correct. I have no understanding of the concept of christianity, if you are a fair representation of christianity.
Emile, I appreciate your concern that us Christians are at each others throats, but seeing as you have read the threads you must surely see that it is not people of the same faiths that are arguing here. The same reference book, ie; the Bible, is being represented by different religions. brotheryorchanan here, doesn't believe that Catholics are Christian. By his reasoning we must also assume he doesn't think that Anglicans, Methodists or Orthodox are Christian either. We are not two people from the same group bickering about where saints fit into our lives, for example. One has no belief in saints at all. There are profound and elaborate differences here, which can be demystified by an argument, but we're not about to kill each other over it.
Not people of the same faith. Interesting. I learn something new about christianity every day.
There is a lot to learn
Its easier to accept that jehovahs witness are not saved, Christian scientology are not saved, mormons are not saved. These and others consider Christ to be less, much less in some cases, than what he is.
Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Salvation is through Jesus Christ.
Catholicism has demoted Christ and given mary preeminence.
You do realize that those of you who rush about, condemning anyone and everyone that doesn't agree with your personal views on your religion are actually what your fellow religionists label as 'spiritually dead'?
You have absolutely no clue, which is sad. Because it's obvious you want so badly to believe in something, but you are substituting belief in your ego with any meaningful search.
There is no condemnation.
Man you people don't take correction well do yas.
fact is fact, and at any time they can turn from their ways and devote their time and effort in the one true God.
but condemnation... sorry that's sloppy interpretation and poor reading on your part. There are more times than i can recall that i have refuted a wrong belief system and then said that they are not condemned. Like when i said the to the medium lady, i also said that God may drawing her unto himself by her being in here. There is no condemnation there.
You confuse stating truth and fact for condemnation.
And as far as my ego goes... when i speak from assurance and with confidence, you also misconstrue that for ego.. when it is just assurance and confidence.
And i didn't want so badly to believe in something, my life was okay before i got saved, but i made the mistake of inquiring with a christian fellow about bible stories... the same ones that are called myths by unbelievers and i received some very good answers. SOOOOOOOOOO rather than believe a lie ( i know doesn't that give ya a short punch to the kidney) rather than believe a lie (my previous information about the bible being not true) i decided to check it out further because, if i was believing a LIE i did not want that too continue. Upon further investigation into bible contradictions i found that many, many were not. Then i decided to try salvation... the rest is blessed. So please refrain from inferring into my private life which obviously you know - up until now - nothing about.
And clues.. oh yes i have lots. You are wrong. I haven't even begun to dig into my bag of knowledge.. this is all christianity 001 stuff we debate here. baby food. When one gets into the meat... thats where God becomes majestic and huge.
And it's been nice chatting with you. You are amazing. You do realize if you ran on like that in a corner grocery they'd call for help? Or, is there access to the internet in the loony bin? I'm starting to wonder.
I'm beginning to understand the atheist complaint that christians are megalomaniacs. And, I have to tell you; if someone had told me two months ago that I would ever believe that I would have said impossible. Man, I hope you're an anomaly.
You might consider learning about the actual teachings of the Catholic Church before you make grand pronouncements about what it has done.
Mary has not been given preeminence over Christ anywhere in Catholic history. If you have any questions about the actual teachings of the Church, I would be happy to enlighten you. Although, I don't consider myself the ultimate authority on Catholicism the way you apparently consider yourself the ultimate authority on Christianity.
You, like many of my Protestant brothers and sisters in Christ seem to be misled on many aspects of Catholicism.
Please, for the sake of not alienating others who may not understand the Church's teaching, do not put forth as if you know what they are when you are very mistaken about them.
The Catholic Church teaches that the Blessed Virgin Mary is the holiest human being that ever walked the earth, after Our Lord. Her holiness also exceeds that of all the angels, even the highest Seraphim! NO Other mere creature gives such glory to God. Our Lord gave The Blessed Virgin to all mankind when he entrusted St. John with her care as he was dying on the Cross. "Woman, behold thy son... Son, behold thy mother." Catholic commentators agree that all mankind was represented there in the person of St. John. Our Lord gave us his most precious treasure! We should treasure her, to honor Our Lord if for no other reason.
I really don't need to read more. Crap is crap. Jesus did not give mary to all the world, he gave her to john and she lived at johns house, because in jewish society a woman should/must not be alone and obviously she was homeless. Jesus said to one person to look after mary after the tradition of the jews and Jesus did not give mary to the whole world.
Mary is dead and in the grave, like everybody else awaiting resurrection like everybody else.
Well, thank you for your thoughts on the matter. Certainly they are worth more than two thousand years of understanding from biblical scholars.
I apologize for questioning your brilliance and superior knowledge.
Its about time catholicism woke up.
catholic biblical scholars ... perhaps the indulgence doctrine was flawed because it came about in less than 2,000 yrs. Oh yah and purgatory... thats a funny one... bravo catholic bible scholars. Any idiot knows the dead cannot be bought of a place that doesn't exist. This is called 'fleecing' which is very scriptural - NOT.
Its not superior knowledge or brilliance. If following God relied on the brilliance of man it would be called catholic. If my own personal brilliance was responsible for great revelation then i could boast on judgment day about how i got me into the kingdom.
Christianity is not determined by ones IQ or how many times they have been around the rosary today... but by ones submission and obedience to God.
Now there's briliance - but its Gods brilliance.
I have often wondered about the 144,000. Since God claimed the Levites and God had the earth open up and destroy the tribe Reuben (Dathan and Abiram), one would be lead to think that all of those of the Levite line would be Gods already and not counted and since the tribe of Reuben was supposed to be wiped out how did they get counted? Just a thought.
Their fairy tale is wrong, our fairy tale is right, yada yada yada.
What makes you so sure that your nonsensical nonsense is as real as some one elses nonesensical nonsesnse which yu can obviously see is false?
From earliest time a rebel managed to bring a lie into the world. Jesus affirmed the account in Genesis when he rebuked his enemies:
“You are from your father the devil, that one was a manslayer when he began, because he did not stand fast in the truth. When he speaks the lie he is speaking according to his disposition, because he is a liar, and he father of the lie.”
What was the first lie? When Satan challenged God saying: “You positively will not die!” That lie made him a manslayer, or murderer, because of that lie that Adam believed we are all dying. Through one man death entered into the world, and death through sin.” (Romans 5:12)
not sure what version your quote is from but here's the kjv
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
Ye will do - The word "will," here, is not an auxiliary verb. It does not simply express futurity, or that such a thing will take place, but it implies an act of volition's. This you will or choose to do. The same mode of speech occurs in John 5:40. In what respects they showed that they were the children of the devil he proceeds to state:
1. in their murderous disposition;
2. in rejecting the truth;
3. in being favorable to falsehood and error.
who was the worlds first murderer? Cain of course. murdered abel then lied to God about it. I keep telling people this: devil has a small d on it not a capital. This is not a proper noun and not a proper name. The word used is diabolos. The root is a primary preposition, dia, denoting the channel of an act. devil is/was a metaphor for bad or evil things being done through an act of some sort, not a personified super angel at all.
To infer satan into the garden scenario has no creedence.
another point your just a tad off.. adam didn't believe the lie. Eve did, she gave to her husband and he ate. Adam had no discussion with the snakey. And another point... through one MAN sin entered the world - again no mention of satan.
Judge away! Your own peers won't even have a bar of your constant personal attacks and inuendo.
Sicking your fairy on me for blasphemy is hilarious!
Bet you wish you could shut me up yourself eh?
A pleasure, earnest. Hope you're well.
I'm well thank you and hope you are as well. I can't sleep though!
I had that same problem last night...was up till 3 this morning and back up at 7. Ugh. I feel your pain.
It is a bit annoying!
I don't take sleeping pills, and drink too much tea and coffee too late in the day sometimes.
Just a wild undisciplined brat at heart!
3.33 am here.
Coffee is part of my problem as well. The act of drinking coffee is comforting and relaxing for me, but then the caffeine gives me trouble later, of course.
There have been times, though, when I'm at my most productive overnight. Of course, last night wasn't one of those times. It's midday for us - 12:46pm on Saturday, 7/2.
Wish I was there! I love your city, but both times I was there I did not have enough time to see enough of it.
I met a few locals though. Real nice.
Nice city Chicago, I loved the time I spent there looking at automotive museums.
No false doctrine from any of them. (in deference to the thread title.)
Plenty of false doctrine all over the city, unfortunately...lol
But, yes, it's a wonderful city. I wanted to live here from the first time I visited. If you make it back, let me know you're coming. We'll have coffee together. And, we won't discuss one whit of religion.
Thank you. I do hope to get back there again soon.
I would love to have a coffee with you
America is still one of my favourite countries.
I'm a big fan of North America (Canada and the States both). Come anytime!
Oh...to get back to the thread - mine is the only true doctrine. All the rest are false! Grrrr!
I got some sleep.
I never realised we had the same belief system before you mentioned you had the only true doctrine.
It's because so many people are busy pumping out false doctrine! We who are right get ignored...teehee
Glad you got some rest. Sleep deprivation is never a good thing.
Personally, I believe that's the only TRUE doctrine! Be loving, make nice, and get enough sleep.
Those things make everything right with the world. That's what kids seem to think anyway!
I agree. I never seem to find a time when I feel unloved. I am surrounded by it.
As long as we can love ourselves (in a healthy way) we will attract love like flies to cow dung!
Stink is in the nose of the sniffer.
I had a collie cross bitch who always rolled in fresh cow dung to turn the boys on, she thought it worked better than Channel.
HA! I bet it did work, didn't it? I love collie mixes. They're such beautiful dogs.
I don't mind stinking of love and being nice...lol
They are very smart, the bitches are also very wiley!
She would always rush up to me all excited with all those facial expressions that say "Don't I smell great?"
As long as she didn't ask for affection, or come to you hoping you'd scratch behind her ears!
Yep! She did both!
It didn't matter much to me though, I was usually covered in the stuff from milking in springtime anyway.
Aww that dog had Earnest under her thumb
Mans best friend huh.
I remember when my brothers used to have hunting dogs and they would all disappear for 4/days.
My mother wouldnt let the boys in the house until they rinsed in the local river first ...
Stinky lot ,but yes lovable.
My parents have a collie called Jean. They live next to the Tweed river and when she gets the chance, Jean likes to roll in some dead swan. Yes really. We have to lock her out of the house she smells so bad. Jean just has a face which says, "by heck, I smell gorgeous!!"
Face, meet Palm... Palm, meet face...
Sorry, this entire post seems to have been made in jest. What this person has originally said is "false doctrine". Even I know that with minimal virtually nonexistent, knowledge of the Islam faith system of the Quran.
More mumbo jumbo and side stepping while still calling me a liar about something unrelated and making a personal attack which you got the wrong side of as always.
I don't have to remember what I said last time as I don't lie.
You are a right piece of work you are!
As I said, I was a foundation member of CBMC.
a rant is all i get..
no wonder you cannot sleep
jesus is lord
have a nice day
founding member of nothing
Have you ever made a comment here that is not a personal attack?
Are you going to keep insisting on me being a liar after a proved that the cbmc
1. Is an actual religious organisation.
2. Is in Australia.
3. Is established in my city, where I am very well known.
If I lied about being a foundation member there would be dozens of people who know me scrambling to set the record straight of course.
If I get Clifford Wilson, (another foundation member and the Director of the Australian Institute of Archaeology at the same time) to call you and tell you directly you would still call me a liar. He is still a religious zealot, but he would have to acknowledge the fact, as my name is on the charter.
I still have the photos somewhere, should I post them? Of course you are so hung up on this CBMC "issue", and have so much hate vested in it that you would claim it was photo-shopped. Then if I got a lab to prove they were not, you would claim the lab was a front for scientists wanting to dis-prove religion.
You need help.
So far in your attempts to ridicule me and others you have made so many mistakes, told so many lies, that I am losing count of them.
Perhaps someone else would like to do a quick search and turn up a dozen or so of them to make the point.
You have succeeded in making yourself the most unpopular poster I have seen since paara who I see has returned to fill us all with the luv of the other "good book," and will no doubt fill the pages with more religious crud.
ill send them your picture and see if he remembers you.
don't ever tell me i am not open to evidence, because i am.
please to show me my mistakes because i have certainly shown you yours.
email sent with a snappy nice picture of you i snapshot off your hub profile page and i mentioned Clifford Wilson also.
and hey! don't be gettin all mad at me. I asked you to back your claim up and you refused. Then you stretch it out into 7 posts and then inferred a claim that i won't listen to your evidence. We tangle so very often, whenever i ask you to account for yourself you don't. You purport the same adequately refuted jargon over and over and said at one time, "you (not I) don't care". Sorry for not believing you but i have no REASON TO BELIEVE YOU.
If you prove to be a founding member, i will say i am sorry for doubting you ON THIS ONE ISSUE. But the slew of attacks is hardly rational behavior. You ask for evidence and fully expect to receive it.
Now you have to prove where "you (me) have made so many mistakes, told so many lies, that I am losing count of them". Stop digging a deeper pit for yourself and just accept the fact that not everybody thinks you are golden, especially me.
Great! Ask him if he remembers bringing the dead sea scrolls with him, and if he wants to be remembered to Allen Wells.
Here's one for you all, have you heard about a new religion on the rise? It's true, look it up. It is called "Christlam".
Someone came up with the idea of combining Christian with Islam. My guess is that this has something to do with the "New World Order" where there'll be a one world government and a one world religion. It is my opion that the two religions will never be able to come together as one, because one denies the death and resurrection of Jesus and the other is based on it.
However, I have seen a picture of Pope Jon Paul II kissing the Koran and I suppose that after the rapture of the church (when all true christians will be taken out of this world to be with Christ and enjoy the marriage supper of the Lamb), this new religion just might fly.
You do that brothery.
Then crawl back here and apologise for your stupid prolonged worthless attack.
You should be ashamed of yourself, but I notice you haven't seen that you have left a trail of petty abuse across these threads.
Seek help, your life on this thread is a reflection of petty misery!
I've done it. I will dig up proof for you. No need to thank me.
but you now need to prove the lies i have told AND the mistakes.
i've just gone back over the cbmc posts and i am sorry to inform you that i will not crawl back here and apologize. You are the one who prolonged it.. i just asked for backup, evidence and you refused. It is not an offense to ask someone to back up a claim that they make.
Ashamed of myself ... for asking you to back up your claim or for giving back to you what you give to others or uncontradicting all the false contradictions you post... again you misinterpret small paragraphs.
speaking of petty.. mr all i can see is hate and violence, well the torment of being between two worlds is evidently tearing you apart and i wouldn't want to be in that situation.
My life is fantastic thanks! it was petty before, as is yours now because all life without Christ is vanity and worthless, petty and mundane. You can say you are the happiest person in the world, but why are you here with your crafty one liners. Why can you not divorce yourself from your former ways completely? Because you live between worlds, one with christ and the other without.
I wish you well with that and hope you find some final resolve in the near future, as do all the other christians here to.
36. Christ warned his followers not to fear being killed
Christ himself avoided the Jews for fear of being killed
Notice this is chapter 7, there are 28 chapters in the book of john.. christ could not let himself be killed 1/4 way through his mission or before the cross. How could you miss or forget that?
John 7:1 After these things Jesus walked in Galilee: for he would not walk in Jewry, because the Jews sought to kill him
Fear is not mentioned in this verse. You couldn't even quote the verse correctly.
This is why i say, biblically, the blunt end of a joke
contradiction #36 down in flames.
sorry typo.... 21 chapters in the book of john... so Jesus would be 1/3 the way through his ministry, not 1/4.
You have a lot more to apologise for than that.
You owe most of the posters here an apology as well as me.
can you back that up?
or do we just go on your golden laurels?
and while your at it.. got a comment about the contradiction YOU posted that I just blew out of the water or are you just going to ignore i thrashed it and you with your silly post about contradictions inthe bible that clearly (read above) do not exist.
Seen all the convolutions before Brothery, one would have to live in a vacuum not to have. I've seen church leaders and theologians swallow an elephant and choke on a gnat before.
All nonsense of course.
can't man up eh. Well cobbie after all this time that is exactly what i expect from you.
Still on the cobbie I see. The covert hostility can be seen from over the horizon!
Still smarting over having your clock cleaned for the zillionth time?
Stick around, there are dozens of others you have insulted to call you to order yet.
exactly what i expected from you.
Wheres my clock been cleaned? prove it. This allegation has as much substance as your contradiction posts and your cheesy one liners.
how UNfounded are your words and something else i think also.
as far as i am concerned, you must enjoy the taste of your own foot.
I still wonder about the cmbc, if you were a founding member, why do they not respond? I have come to several conclusions, but i like this one the best: You have stated so many times that prayer never gets answered. I know of this major reason why prayer doesn't get answered and brother james said it so brilliantly;
James 4:3 Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts (fleshly desires).
Now taking into account your veracity of hate posts and general nasty speech to other christians and the lack of support you have yet to offer to any of your claims, plus, it is obvious you do not understand the simple basics of christianity. I have come to the conclusion, being as the church you said you subscribed to was a business oriented church, that, you were in high probability a wolf attempting to wear sheeps clothing. That is to say that you thought these simple minded relatives of goat herders easy prey to further your career.
You haven't learnt much have you? First I was a catholic, now CBMC is a church!
I made the statement that I was a foundation member of CBMC.
Your response was A. You thought it was a Catholic church.
Your response is the usual personal attack.
The first time you used underhanded and slippery personal attacks was when you said I was only a motor mechanic and should stick to that as I knew nothing about religion. Then you insisted I was a Catholic, after having said I was an atheist.
Get at least one things right.
You have used the same worthless ways to attack anyone who has kicked your butt on almost every post.
What a miserable life! Losing arguments about the ridiculous invisible super daddy, then attacking those who don't drink the cool aid! Is this all your life is about?
man are you out there. cbmc. I had no idea what that stood for. I asked you, you said nothing, so i wrote, catholic what... because you hadn't responded to my query about what it stood for, that being said, you gave the link.
I said you were catholic based on your lack of basic christian understanding. You never replied to that to say your weren't for months after that, when i questioned you on that, you evaded the topic like you always do, except to rant at me along some other unrelated dialogue.
The idea of you sticking to motor mechanic is because you know stuff about it and christianity you know nothing.. not a personal attack, a very good observation, but of course since you see everything as hate and killing and personal attacks, you missed out on the good advice i had for ya.
All these things are right and you have a hate filled sloppy interpretation of the facts. There is nothing wrong with me wanting to evidence that you were a founding member. If i found something, ill let ya know and if you ask for proof, i will provide it. Nothing unusual there.
I'm very interested now, since you say i lose arguments about God as to what arguments i have lost. Its certainly not anything you were involved in and i doubt anything that you have interpreted correctly nor can i find another thread where i am mistaken.
50. Marriage or cohabitation with a sister denounced
Deut 27:22/ Lev 20:17
Deuteronomy 27:22 Cursed be he that lay with his sister, the daughter of his father, or the daughter of his mother. And all the people shall say, Amen.
No problem there.
Abraham married his sister and God blessed the union
Gen 20:11,12/ Gen 17:16
Genesis 20:11 And Abraham said, Because I thought, Surely the fear of God is not in this place; and they will slay me for my wife's sake.
Genesis 20:12 And yet indeed she is my sister; she is the daughter of my father, BUT NOT THE DAUGHTER OF MY MOTHER; and she became my wife. (STEP SISTER by a past marriage)
See what i mean, you lose this one too and all the other contradictions that are really just sloppy interpretations.
another bible contradiction up in flames. Thanks earnest.
As to my life. It fairly busy doin God stuff. I keep active in the community and attend church faithfully. I have about 60 (spiritual) brothers and equal sisters, not bad for an only child. I study the bible daily and God and i talk constantly. I am single, never married, no kids. I drive a mazda miata and an electric scooter. Life is good and i like to tan and swim in my spot on the cowichan river. I have always been fond of nature but more fond it now since i know the maker of nature.
I like to correct false beliefs that don't line up with the bible - not to condemn people - but just to get the truth out there. I'd write more hubs but that's a winter thing. Enough for now.. kinda blows your theory of my life being miserable dunnit.
Still no answer.
i guess they don't care about you. Such a christian organisation. I'm glad you left, lol.
I'll send them another.
doctrine can be false or true depending on one's faith and so it is useless to debate on it.. for Christians Muhammad's version is false doctrine , for Jews Jesus was false messiah and so on...so it is mere belief and one must keep one's belief to oneself rather than being judgmental on others...
Islam is a false doctrine in as much as Judaism and Christianity are false doctrines. I think the truth is closer to 'distortion' than falsehood. Deliberately distorted? Perhaps. Confined by the ignorance of primitivity? Very likely. Either way the result is division among humanity and that is not in tune w/ evolution.
That's a rare opinion
got some evidence?
I know.. what's your favorite bible contradiction
Favorite? Tough one. I guess it would be The Flood.
"And then God vows never to annhilate the entire human race, like he had just done, ever again."
- The Sarcastic Genesis
Genesis 9:15 God vows not to use a flood to destroy the earth. He did not say anything about fire, wind, comet, earthquake or even supernova.
I think because all that water had to go somewhere. Now funny thing about our continents, they fit together, tectonic plates as well, but on a smaller planet, Which is called Pangaea. In order to disperse the flood waters i think there was an enlargement of our planet and the continents were moved. There are documents about a great flood from other parts of the world far around that part of the world. I believe our planet is now at its maximum size.
Earth is not a term that means only the whole world. We have earth - the planet, and earth - soil. Terms like the known world - meaning much smaller an area than the actual world. So do i think the flood went around the whole world ... no i don't.
Evolution is not in tune with itself.
Might be this...might be that..
"Do you know what the Word, Islam ... means ... It means and stands for ... Peace ... in the world ... and the Hereafter."
.. and kills those who don't believe it is peaceful.
On the contrary, I think our planet is still in its early stages of evolution. How much of that evolution is meant to include us I dare not say, but I think Earth will grow far beyond its current size.
As for the flood, I don't think it encompassed the whole world either,but the OT rendition implies it encompassed their known world, i.e. Mesopotamia, Asia Minor, Egypt.
Interesting you say our earth will grow far beyond its current size. Rainfall erodes mountains, that is to imply, if our earth were billions of years old, how do we account for all these mountains? just a thought.
How do you figure the earth will grow. Scientists say that if our earth were one mile bigger it would burn and one mile smaller it would freeze. That doesn't mean i climb up a mile high ladder and spontaneously combust, but that the seasons and climate would be affected to the point of our extinction.
not lookin for an argument, just sayin.
Thanks for the reply
I wasn't implying it would happen soon. A few eons maybe, probably long after we're gone from here. Gas giants like Jupiter probably didn't just appear in their current form just like that but mustve taken quite some time. The earth evolving far beyond its current size is an idea I enjoy entertaining. And my gut says it will eventually happen with or without us.
So, I guess Jesus should have stuck with being a carpenter?
No NT, no Roman Church, no inquisition, no Salem witch trials and no Tea Party.
Not a bad outcome at all. Takes care of most of the hate specialists in the USA.
Had a good night sleep. Had one of those regular sleep dreams.
No stroke either and no temporary blindness yet.
Still havent made a doctor app yet though
Nice to know you're feeling good. I would not be too concerned, it may be the way you are built! There is so much difference between individuals that it takes years just to establish a base line in post Jungian dream therapy.
Your mind may simply have a good link to some of the massive list of goodies hidden away in the subconscious. There is a good documentary running on TV about people with very special abilities that can be quite extreme, so a lot would need to be known about your Psych to be able to form a conclusion as to source if this is the case, and it probably is a non problem and just needs to be enjoyed.
Ruling out medical sources would seem prudent though, and your GP may already have some understanding of savants and other such phenomena.
Yes everyone agrees ... Doctrine is false, after ..IS
lets start here and agree.
I'll be touching base from time to time to ask simple questions ..... looking for simple answers.
Good night yawl.
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