The Lord told me that I shouldn't be amazed that people deny that the Bible is authentic. After all, it is not the Bible that they take issue with but its message. The arguments they use to dispute the Bible are only excuses used to cover the fact that they just don't believe it or the God it reveals. They argue that there are contradictions in the Bible when, in reality, these are different books written by different people with different voice and different perspectives but the same message. The Lord revealed to me that even if there were not these "perceived" contradictions in the Bible, these same disputers would argue and say that the Bible sounds too much like one voice to have been written by so many people over such a long period of time. In short, there would be no pleasing these people regardless of which voice the Bible used. What is your take?
I'll just touch on the first five books of the bible. It is said that those five books were all written by Moses. Yet we have 2 different creations stories from Genesis chapter one and chapter two. And in one part it says that Abraham was married to his sister (same dad), but later on condemns the practice. Also it states that if you have sexual relations with your brothers wife, you are to be killed and no children will come of the relations, but later it says if your brother dies to marry your brothers wife and have kids in his name. They are 2 different names used for God in these first five books as well, Elohim and Yehwah. There are many inconsistancies in these first 5 books. Why? Because they were edited and rewritten by at least four different schools of thought during or right after the reign of King Solomon (possibly right about the time of the exile to babylon)
Genesis 1 describes the creation of the earth and mankind. Geneis 2 is a continuation of Genesis 1. Abraham was not married to his sister. This is what he told Pharoah because he was afraid of being killed over her. No, you are not to have sexual relations with your brother's wife while he is alive but after he dies, God commands him the brother to marry the wife to raise children in the dead man's name so that his name does not die off from the earth. Try reading a book before you criticize it.
I think you're right. There's just no pleasing them. It's the same with whatever preacher preaches the word within their earshot. They don't want to hear, and will try to use whatever excuses they can find, and pick at whatever weakness the messenger may have. There were people in the church I grew up in who used the fact that one of the preachers smoked cigarettes to say they shouldn't listen to the message of salvation.
I agree with Brenda. Simply excuses to not humbly seek in faith someone bigger than themselves.
Know exactly what you mean Brenda.
Scoffers and mockers are not searching ,they have found a new way to get attention! Remember kids in the playground who called other kids names-attention getters-
But even though we have quacks in our society that pop up from time to time ,I see that doesnt stop people going to the Doctors
Then I suppose you finally have proof for us unreasonable scoffers?
LET'S SEE IT! And we will join you in praising your God..you know..the one that we think is imaginary!
I think you should actualy read more than 2 coments before you coment with somthing so stupid as that. it is just an excuse for not believing in Gods word.
What an evil, angry, insulting Christian. There is absolutely no basis to your statement whatsoever.
Maybe you should learn the art of argument, instead of believing in abject nonsense.
What could actually be more STUPID than a grown-up believing in Santa Claus?!
Think about your beliefs before you spout your emotional childish tantrums at me.
...and still your God is imaginary GARBAGE!
I have faith.
Its what I believe.
You dont have faith.
You dont believe.
Seems pretty easy to figure for me.
I don't have to prove anything to you!! BUT I will keep speaking about God whenever I want.If I gotta listen to you ,then you will hear me too
Its a big world, room for us both bossy boots!
Thanks for totally evading the request.
The only reason for this is that you have NOTHING but a state of delusion to offer me.
Do you realize how dishonest your religion requires you to be?
Calm down ,all this hyped up drama is not good for your health
That's bizarre. You and I must be on the same wavelength this morning. I just told someone a similar thing in another thread.
Still evading I see.
I would hate to worship a God who left me standing with no means to defend HIM...but still asked me to pretend that HE was of great value.
Now...can you blame me for not worshipping your WORTHLESS God?
Your disparity still lingers, no matter how much you praise your worthless, and ridiculous God.
Still evading, I see.
I guess your God can't even help you answer an easy, honest question.
You should never have to falsify claims for your God, NEVER!
Maybe it's time you took a long and critical look at HIM.
This does not look good!
You cannot prove God logically. As a preacher once said, He deliberately hides Himself from those who refuse to believe. If you are unwilling to see Him in creatoin, if you are unwilling to see Him in the miracle of birth, then there is nothing that will convince you. As I wrote in my hub, those who say they don't believe in God because they don't see Him won't believe in Him when tthey will (see Revelation 19 and 20).
Do you realize that this is the definition of delusion. Unless I'm delusional, of course, God is going to 'hide' from me. It is when I become delusional that imaginary things appear to be real.
I'm only willing to see HIM if he actually appears to ME. Those things you described above are only things that happen through the processes of nature. There is no need to imply that your imaginary, nonexistent God had anything to do with it.
If I told you I was God, you would not believe me, yet I could be God...because I'm proposing the same claim that Jesus made. I could be Jesus returning...but YOU wouldn't believe me. I don't think YOU would believe in God, even when YOU see HIM!
Sounds like you're trying to shift the burden of proof.
Sorry but the ball is still in your court, its still up to believers to explain to us why we should care about their claims or the claims of their book. Maybe God should stop revealing things to people like you and share what he has to say with the rest of the class. I have a feeling he won't though, because he doesn't exist outside your mind.
Actually, He wants to speak to you.
What needs to happen is, you need to get Him "inside" your heart.
As long as He's outside of your "mind", you will not hear Him, anyway!
What are you expecting?
A megaphone from the sky? (tongue in cheek)
It amazes me how so many want Him to "dance to their tune".
If He is God, (and LORD), ought it not be the other way round?
"What are you expecting?"
Some amount of evidence.
According to the Bible God is like a Father, if that's the case he's the most neglectful parent in history.
"It amazes me how so many want Him to "dance to their tune"."
God doesn't have to dance to anyone's tune, but he should at the very least show up to the ball and dance for everyone to see. Otherwise he has no right condemning those who don't believe. If no one sees Cinderella at the ball she can't very well be angry them for believing she wasn't there to begin with.
"...dance for everyone to see"...?
He "has no right"?
I guess His dying for you wasn't good enough....wow.
And He has not only the "right", but the power to do whatever He wants. Good thing He's merciful.
Wait, are you saying your God is dead?
Care to tell us what Jesus died to save people from and why he couldn't have accomplished that without dying?
Jesus died for your sins.
Rose again on the 3rd day
Victory over sin and death.
P.S How did you escape this indoctrination
Off with your head!
Awesomely simple Truthful and fun post.
God protecting my joy with a shield of humour I guess
I love your well thought out posts
Wise and uncluttered.
We are all like a piece of thread and God weaves us exactly where he wants,dont ya think?
Sometimes its sad ,because I see only the raggy knotted side ,ie: mockery, critising,slander BUT God holds it all together and I know He never gives up and one day we will see and know His finished work...from the right side.
Beautiful and perfect in every way!
God is a Trinity. Father, Son, Holy Spirit. One God, Three manifestations, distinct in function but inseparable because they're all God.
Not dead, no. Very much alive!
Jesus died to save you from your sins, everyone from their sins, if they choose to accept. Sacrifice follows Love. He could've done anything He wanted. He could've called legions of angels to set Him free from the cross or even before that event. But He chose to set the perfect example of how much He loves you and how a human can have eternal life.
"Not dead, no. Very much alive!"
Than he didn't die for anyone, because he isn't dead. A sacrifice means nothing when nothing is being sacrificed.
Jesus died to save people from their sins? That doesn't make any sense. You still sin don't you? And you're a Christian who's supposedly been saved from your sins. Thus Jesus did not save anyone from sins.
"But He chose to set the perfect example of how much He loves you and how a human can have eternal life."
So God killed his own son to show how much he loves us. Sorry but that's not a loving act, it's sick and cruel. Does your God not know that there are better ways to show love than having an innocent man brutally murdered?
Is that all you see in that? Do you really not entertain the concept that God is the Creator and can do what He wants to with His creation?
Jesus died; his human body suffered and died. But not His Spirit. We all have a spirit inside us. If we accept Christ, we have the Holy Spirit inside us.
It's not hard to believe that Jesus died and rose again. He's alive!
God didn't kill His own son. He offered Him, gave Him, yes, gave Jesus the opportunity to save the world. Jesus laid down His own life willingly. And Jesus was God in the flesh. The book of John tells us this. Hard for people to understand sometimes, but...
I'll have to save further input for later. I'm too sleepy. But, even if we debate and disagree, I always appreciate the opportunity to talk about my Savior! So thanks. Maybe see ya later?!
Well - you have certainly persuaded me you do not understand the symbology in the bible and your take on it makes utterly no sense. In fact - it is a good argument for not believing in your Invisible Psychotic Super Being.
Thanks for validating my lack of belief.
And all along I was led to think you didn't believe because of me being such a horrid hypocritical sinner. .
Then after that I think it was because of all the suffering in the world.
Now it seems you take exception to the interpretation of Bible symbolism and fact.
What reason will you come up with next, to not believe in God?
"that God is the Creator and can do what He wants to with His creation?"
Might doesn't make right.
"Jesus died; his human body suffered and died."
Jesus came back to life in the same body three days later and showed off his wounds to people, even let Thomas touch them. That's not being dead.
"If we accept Christ, we have the Holy Spirit inside us."
I was a Christian from age 8-19, I even did the whole speaking in tongues "spirit-filled" thing. All the intense emotional manipulation and self-deception I underwent while a Christian didn't change the fact that the Bible is a morally repugnant self-contradictory mess. It was reading the Bible in its entirety that led me to the deterioration of my faith and eventually my liberation from Christianity.
"gave Jesus the opportunity to save the world."
What's he saving the world from again? Remember that the answer sin doesn't make any sense because Christians are still capable of sinning after accepting Christ and are still just as susceptible to temptation. I have yet to get an answer to "What is Jesus saving people from?" that actually makes sense.
Eaglekiwi explained it really well in a post above.
Salvation makes us joint-heirs with Christ and He becomes our Advocate. This gives us someone to depend on to help us resist temptation to sin; and it delivers us from having to go through the consequences of the sin that all mankind is otherwise under.
All of mankind are sinful creatures unless we let God into our lives, and we're all worthy of death. But Jesus paid the price for our sins. Doesn't mean we can deliberately live a life of sin and get by with it; does mean that we will have eternal life if we keep our hearts with the Lord.
"This gives us someone to depend on to help us resist temptation to sin"
Someone you can't see or hear, thus someone more useless than an actual human being standing next to you. If Jesus were doing anything noticeable to help people resist temptation there would be no need for 12 Step programs or support groups.
If Jesus is helping Christians resist sin why do we see pedophile priests and people stoning their children because they believe God told them to? Seems like Jesus is doing a piss poor job of saving anyone from sin.
"and we're all worthy of death."
What kind of God creates a system where his beloved creation is born worthy of death? And before you argue he didn't create it keep in mind what you said earlier, God can do whatever he wants with his creation, meaning that if he wanted he could stop the world from being born into sin with little more than a thought.
Instead his best laid plan is to have his son brutally killed as a barbaric blood sacrifice in order to appease his own standard that all sin requires death. He then requires people to believe in his son without offering any evidence or else they will continue to be dead in sin and he will throw them into a lake of fire...
And you're suggesting that any of that makes sense to you or isn't morally FUBAR?
heh I had to look up those initials.
Yes, it makes sense to me.
God could've created little robots that would automatically do everything He told them to!
He wants your Love, Titen-Sxull, and your allegiance. Loving Him is a choice. The alternative (to love the Devil) isn't a good choice. Actually, if you Love God, you will automatically want to worship Him and do your best to follow His commandments.
You can keep balking at acknowledging Him.
Since you don't want to see how much He Loves you, that's about the best I can say right now.
"He wants your Love, Titen-Sxull, and your allegiance. Loving Him is a choice."
If the choice is between swearing allegiance to God or going to Hell than it isn't really a choice. Anymore than a man holding a gun to my head gives me any real choice to disobey his orders. Imagine for a moment a scenario where a man comes up to you and threatens to kill you unless you worship him and his son for all eternity and love him. Does this man sound mentally stable? Does this sound like a moral decision for him to make? Is he acting in your best interest? If it doesn't sound morally right for a human being to do it it can only be WORSE for a God to do it.
"Since you don't want to see how much He Loves you, that's about the best I can say right now."
No one can see how much God loves them, they can only imagine it. God never reaches down from the sky to give anyone an actual hug does he? Nope, it's all warm and fuzzy feelings and woo-woo 'spiritual feelings'. It's all "I just knew in my heart it was God moving" instead of actual evidence that this God is a reality. As for God's "LOVE" re-read my hypothetical scenario above, because its an exact analogy of the picture that the Bible paints of God. You must submit and obey and love God OR ELSE he'll send you to Hell, that's not love, its damn psychotic.
Not when you believe that God is really the Creator!
He literally formed the first man Adam from the dust of the ground!
Without God having breathed life into man, man would not even be man.
I dunno about you, but that fact commands a LOT of admiration and respect from me.
Except that the Creation story in genesis contradicts known scientific fact about the evolution of the human race. People are not created from dust via magic.
"I dunno about you, but that fact commands a LOT of admiration and respect from me."
It's not a fact, it's a story, just one of many stories of magical or divinely driven creation. There are hundreds of other creation myths. What makes yours more valid than those others? Where are the FACTS that support your myth?
The main one is this---common sense. It makes sense that there is a Creator. Instead of humans just forming from a tiny little iota of...what?....over thousands of years....THAT makes no sense to me at all. Especially when a human child develops in the womb of a woman during 9 months. So if I'm to even consider origination from anything other than creation.....then where did the first human come from anyway? Should I be afraid of stepping on some particle of dirt that's a potential human or swiping away a potential human when I swipe my hand in the air? Do you see what I mean?
It makes sense that God made Adam from the dust of the earth, then Eve from his rib, then set in motion the ability of Eve to bear children after mating with Adam.
Otherwise, I would think little humans would be poppin' up outta the ground every day. LOL
So I agree that humans don't come from the dust via magic! It was the hand of God that formed the first one.
"Instead of humans just forming from a tiny little iota of...what?....over thousands of years....THAT makes no sense to me at all."
Good because what you've just described isn't what evolution is. Humans evolved from earlier hominids (primates), which in turn evolved from others. The evolutionary chain can be traced back via the fossil record until about 3.5 Billion years ago. The first life on Earth was single-celled. So no, it wasn't thousands of years, it was billions, and yes it makes sense and is supported by everything we understand about biology.
"then where did the first human come from anyway?"
You're thinking in black and white terms. The first humans evolved from earlier hominids but there likely wasn't an exact generation that could be pointed to where we could say they definitively became human. Evolution is constantly taking place, each generation is a bit different from the last (that's all evolution is). Of course humans grow in a womb, as do all placental mammals. Now you can pretend that's because God magically created us that way or you can agree that those animals are related evolutionarily.
"Do you see what I mean?"
I think you just stabbed your own argument in the back there. It was God that made men from dirt. Evolution states no such thing, it posits Human beings evolved from earlier primates and there's the weight of genetics and fossil evidence backing that up.
"It was the hand of God that formed the first one."
Using supernatural power right?
How is it common sense for the natural world to be created by the supernatural? Everything we see in reality attests to the exact OPPOSITE. Everything we see is nature. New life is reproduction. New Stars, new planets, new galaxies, all of this forms without any supernatural intervention and with clear natural causation. So no, a supernatural creator is not common sense.
So, from what do you think those "earlier hominids" evolved? And from what did those evolve? And from what did those evolve? From that "single-celled organism" that you mentioned?
Well, hmm...then where did that single-celled organism come from?
"Well, hmm...then where did that single-celled organism come from?"
There are numerous hypotheses on how the first cells formed on early Earth through naturally occurring processes. Which only makes sense as life is just a series of naturally occurring chemical interactions. Now if you want you can believe your God helped them form and even believe that God assisted evolution somehow but to suggest that Genesis is true flies in the face of the facts.
Don't take my word for it though, research Theistic Evolution, there are plenty of believers who've accepted the reality of evolution and continued to believe in God. Also I'd recommend reading up on Evolution and the evidence for it. I used to be a creationist, it took me years to break the programming and self-deception to finally give evolution a fair shake and when I did I didn't find the evidence lacking.
I tell ya what.
Show me (or point me toward any person who can show me) a single-celled organism that has evolved into a human being, (aside from a drop of human sperm, or some mixture thereof! lol), and I'll think about researching your theory of "evolution".
Shouldn't take more than....9 months at least....to prove the evolution theory. And if it were gonna be proven, I bet it already would've. Theorists have had hundreds of years to turn a nondescript (or even "descript" lol) cell into a human being. They ain't done it yet!
Hey, I'm a believer who has accepted the reality of "evolution"! I've given it the fairest shake it can be given. Just not evolution the way Darwin or other "evolutionists" decided to define it and warp the understanding of the susceptible. I even wrote a hub about it. As earnest said, "goddunit"! Yep, even God. The one of the Bible. He even made that thing evolve into a man created in His image, just like He did Adam.
"Show me (or point me toward any person who can show me) a single-celled organism that has evolved into a human being"
I can't, because the process takes billions of years, I know there are several fossils of single-celled organisms which are over 3 Billion years old but whether they are the same species of single-cell organism which eventually diverted into fish, then reptiles, then mammals I don't know.
"I'll think about researching your theory of "evolution"."
Not my theory, it's a scientific theory, no one owns it.
"Shouldn't take more than....9 months at least....to prove the evolution theory."
Actually a few hours worth of research could provide you with enough evidence to prove evolution or at the very least over-turn creationism. You're right though, having a child would prove evolution as that child would no doubt be different from you. That's what evolution is, genetic variation over time, the slight differences between one generation and the next brought on by changes in the environment and the formation of new genes via mutations.
"They ain't done it yet!"
What you're talking about is complete nonsense. No one would try to force a MODERN cell to evolve into a human being, let alone attempt to do it in only a few centuries time. Conditions on Earth 3.5 billion years ago were NOTHING like Earth is now. It would be impossible and pointless to recreate human evolution in the lab. We already know human beings evolved, we already have all the evidence we need in genetics and the fossil record.
"decided to define it and warp the understanding of the susceptible"
Darwin's dead, the man hasn't had a damn thing to say about Evolution in more than a century. He isn't the end-all-be-all of evolutionary science, the amount we've learned since his death is absolutely STAGGERING. And all of it is factual science backed by evidence and peer review. You can go to museums and see the fossils, hell you can see them just by googling Transitional Fossils. No mental manipulation is required to follow the facts to their logical conclusion.
"He even made that thing evolve into a man created in His image, just like He did Adam."
Man is made in God's image? Than what does God need with nipples?
Jesus died to save people from the penalty of sin--eternal separation from God. He also died to save people from the power of sin--He gave them the ability to see sin for what it is and to refuse to obey it. We are still in the presence of sin (world, flesh, devil). We can still be tempted to sin (disobey God) but we will not suffer the eternal consequences because Jesus did that on Calvary's cross 2000 years ago. All sin is atoned for for all who would believe in Him and submit to HIs Lordship. See Romans 5:8 and 8:1-2 and 10:9-10.
Untrue. Then again, I don't expect you to understand.
So what was the big deal if his dad could simply bring JC back to life? Where is the sacrifice? A sacrifice is when you give up something, right?
Who put that penalty into place? God right? So he could just remove the penalty, or forgive people's sins without a barbaric blood sacrifice. Who created Hell? God right? What sort of loving God would create a place with weeping, wailing and gnashing of teeth and then plan to send people there for eternity for things like lying, stealing and being a sorcerer (Revelation 21:8)?
"All sin is atoned for for all who would believe in Him and submit to HIs Lordship."
Are you saying that a Christian can't go to Hell even if they sin a lot? What about pedophile priests will they go to Hell? If the answer is yes that Jesus isn't saving anyone from anything because those people are still going there.
"He gave them the ability to see sin for what it is and to refuse to obey it."
Except that even people who aren't Christians know the difference between right and wrong, no Jesus required. Sorry but Jesus saving people from Hell makes no sense.
Man can not forgive or destroy sin.
We /me/you do not have that power.
An ideal world would be one ,where no one needed forgiveness or justice for wrong doing etc ,BUT we dont live in an ideal world...
Dont you see that mankind is out of control, he seeks power at any cost ,and pleasure without consequence.
A broken heart is a high price to pay.
Foolish ways make fools out of the wise
In answer to a couple of things in your post.
Jesus died to remove the outcome of eveuntual consequence of sin ie..dead forever! and to provide a bridge ,way back for man to reconcile to God the Father.
In line with the culture of the time,an unblemished sacrifice was required by Jewish law-
The sins of mankind required a sacrifice without blemish-Jesus was that sacrificial lamb!
So yes people still sin ,but with remorse and change the option is now available to reconciliate with God (the Judge) through accepting His son,His sacrifice...
That is what the scripture means ,There is one death known to man...the other is to be born again -spiritually...
Just another SHEEP in the herd!
This is ALL archaic, nonsensical thinking, coming from ancient people from which we should have long evolved.
I don't know why you don't believe the scriptures since they speak of you: "Professing to be wise, they became fools..." Romans 1
See, this is why your silly beliefs cause some much ill-will, animosity, and conflict.
Using a book to insult people who refuse to believe in your archaic nonsense is a narrow disguise of your hatred of intelligence.
Before delusional believers take to calling others fools, they should take a long look into a mirror, and observe the 'grownup' who actually still believes in a childish fairytale...just like a four year old believing in SANTA CLAUS!!! You should be ashamed to call ANYONE a fool!
You have no wisdom. You have nothing but delusion!!!
Have you considered the possibility that those of us who choose to educate ourselves about these things are aware that the message is false and the contradictions are real? Only blind faith allows you to lie to yourself about this.
There is no god. You do not speak on it's behalf and - constantly berating those of us who can think for ourselves only causes ill will and conflicts.
Does the bible tell you to verbally attack those who do not believe? I missed that part. Perhaps you could quote the part that says to attack people who do not believe?
...And the Son of Sam's neighbor's dog told him to kill people! Should we go around believing people when they propose psychotic claims?!
It's all very fascinating don't you think? What God told you applies to almost every human interaction known to man.
The cheating spouse will use arguments to cover the fact that he just don't believe in the ideals of marriage.
The criminal will use arguments to not only cover the crime but to hide the fact that they just don't believe or couldn't care less about the law.
There is an endless list of what arguments people use.
Even if one sees contradictions to this or that, they will continue to act and be just how they are based on how they perceive whatever.
The Bible cannot be understood without the addition of the Holy Spirit to one's mind. The carnal mind is enmity against God and His Word, the spiritual mind is submissive to God and His Word. So anyone not walking after the Spirit will make excuses and reason around God and His word, and will worship God as they see fit in their own minds, doesn't matter what God has to say about it.
The things of God are spiritually discerned.
For the most part, that's true.
But there are actual facts of life and long-proven rules of behavior that stem from the Bible that anyone can understand! Even creation itself! But I'll forego that creation argument for now since unbelievers will stubbornly debate that no matter what.
The Ten Commandments are laws that even secular people do understand. And they're universally understood, wouldn't you say, in all the world?! Universally, people know it's wrong to lie, steal, cheat, etc., or even to worship anything/anyone who didn't lay down those rules!
In America, our laws were fashioned on those Commandments and other Biblical concepts. Even our bankruptcy laws are based on the Bible's condoning of mercy to a debtor, the time of "jubilee". Very interesting passages about that.
bluebird, AMEN, you post like a Believer, so I'm not trying to argue against your (true) statement that the things of God are spiritually discerned.
I'm just saying that there are many people who are NOT deceived and they deliberately rebell at the laws of God. Jesus asked God to "forgive" the people "because they know not what they do". Amen. But there are people who do know what they do, and they take great pleasure in defying God and swaying others to defy Him. So they cannot rightly make excuses.
I say that the proof is in the putting.The out come of what is there have a factor in the out come thereof. There are true men of there as there are false ones,it is just so few.But the ones that was chosen by God to put it on paper brought forth a "spiritual concept" that is complete above letters and words.
What is my take? Hard to say. I couldn't get past the fact that you repeatedly said God told you. Do you honestly think he's talking to you and sharing an opinion on what others think? That might be a problem.
God speaks to us all, Emile.
Some refuse to acknowledge it, others ignore it, many convince themselves it isn't so, and some few actually listen, and maybe someday gain understanding.
There were twelve witnesses who hung day and night with JC... and many who saw him and the wonders he performed. Or are you going to argue that 12 men plus many of thier disciples went world-wide and worked feverishly and died pretty horid deaths, all in the name of a lie they made up around the campfire one night?
Sure... if you think so.
How you been E? I hope well.
I'm fine Mr. Mason. You're a bit of an oddity to me. Putting words in people's mouths then uttering inane pleasantries.
I don't argue that people feel as if they are connected, or that they don't feel as if moved by the spirit. I do have serious reservations about people who claim they've had a conversation and that conversation includes an almighty god sharing other people's thoughts. It sounds presumptuous and I consider it to be an attempt at insulting without taking responsibility for your own actions. Something christians are quite proficient at. If you don't like my words. That's fine with me. I'm intelligent enough and grounded in reality firmly enough to understand that my opinion is simply that.
What else did you say I said?.....oh. The disciples. I see no reason to argue that point. Did it happen the way you think it did? I don't know. I don't care. The more important question to me is what was the point? What was the message they were attempting to convey to us? You and I could go round and round with that and we would never agree. Let's don't and say we did. You guys' hate filled interpretation always depresses me.
So, (when in Rome) how have you been? Is the baby still down for a visit?
Edit: I just realized half of your post was to Ernest. Sorry for responding to the part that wasn't directed at me.
I did not put any words in your mouth, Emile. I don't understand where you get that? Was that in response to the part to E?
Anyway. I am fine and the baby is gone home a couple days ago. I am glad you are well and have a great day.
Yes E, a dime a dozen. but in a court of law 12 witnesses would get you convicted bro. So I do not dismiss their accounts just because there were others around.
Did you read my post all the way through to the end? I did apologize for misunderstanding. In my defense, the first letter in my name is also an E. So, you have to give me some latitude.
I said the Lord told me that people who don't believe the Bible will always find an excuse not to. Now they say it is because there are too many inconsistencies. The reason for these inconsistencies is that they were written by different people over thousands of years. I didn't say God told me what was on people's minds.
God speaks but people don't listen. Jesus said His sheep know His voice. However, if you don't believe He exist you won't hear His voice. Trying to explain that to an unbeliever is like trying to explain motion picture to someone from the deep jungles of the Amazon.
And attempting to point out to the religious that their personal opinion of God is just their attempt to lay claim to something they were never meant to own exclusively is akin to telling a two year old to share. It is beyond their ability, or desire, to attempt to grasp the concept.
It is hard to imagine anyone being so pretentious in these enlightened times as to believe that they are entitled to speak for a super omnipresent creator of the whole universe, imaginary or not !
It is just such egomaniacal spoutings that give us the best clues as to where the idea of a god comes from - within the human pysche.
The Bible tells believers to spread the Gospel,so your arguement is with the author-God
This is why your beliefs cause so much conflict. You accept no personal responsibility and blame your offensive behavior on something that does not exist.
No I can not take credit for writing the Bible.
But it is man's instruction book from the Creator.
Sucks when you buy something and it doesnt come with a manual.
Be wise E.G read it.
What nonsense. I have read it. It is not an instruction book from a Creator. How funny you ignore the bits about women preachers and not getting involved in protracted arguments with intelligent, educated people who reject majik.
Looks like you should take your own advice and actually read it instead of selectively using it to attack people and then blame some one else.
Why would I want to behave as you do? People such as yourself are the reason I began to question in the first place.
So few words, yet so much wrong.
Here's a revelation for you, the author of the Bible was not God. They are stories written by men who make no other claims to the contrary.
Regardless of whether a book or a person tells you to go out and do something, do you always do it? If not, then it isn't an argument that you would spread the Gospels just because the Gospels told you.
There are a lot of things in the Bible that you're supposed to do but you never do them. So, don't cherry pick.
A persons actions, whether brought on by a book, another person, psychosis or whatever are not in any way shifted in their consequences to a third party. That person is still responsible for their actions. Whatever conflict arises from your spreading of the Gospels is entirely your responsibility and no one else.
The third party in question is God. Do you actually believe for a second that anyone of us could approach God with an argument? Don't you think it's a little dishonest to make that statement knowing well God wouldn't talk to us?
Do you always treat God in that way? What I mean is that whenever you have a problem or disagreement with someone because of your actions, do you always divert them over for God to deal with? Do you believe He would appreciate that behavior from you?
Do you ever consider what other people want or need? You believe you do because the Bible tells you they do. For the most part, people expect to be treated with respect and the only way they can receive it is to give it. If you make demands on them that they accept or deny your Gospels, you are failing their expectations of respect and are being totally selfish.
Again, these are entirely your actions towards others and shouldn't be the responsibility of God.
I just wanted to say this was an excellent post. It couldn't have been said any better.
The Bible was written by God's inspiration not by God's hand. The words are His. The message is His. We are commanded in His word to tell the news that God loves them and that Jesus died for them to restore the relationship between God and man. If you choose to believe, GREAT! If not, it's on you. You can mock Him if you wish but one day you will regret it whether you believe it or not.
You say the Bible isn't true. Perhaps you can explain why it is that it predicted the alliance between Iran, Libya, Egypt, and other Middle East countries centuries before they did.
Congratulations and thank you!
You have successfully, succinctly and accurately portrayed and exhibited every single point I made in my post. Further, you exceeded all expectations and poured on the derision by adding insult to injury and threatening me to accept it or not. Truly inspirational.
Oh, so now you want to have a discussion about the Bible, after that?
The bible is a pile.
Within the next few years the controlling indoctrination will come to a screeching halt as more of the lies are revealed.
IN the series "secret bible" the history of JC and all the other religiously impaired evangelicals are discovered to be nothing more than liars.
Jesus probably never existed, as there is not one iota of proof that he did. There were hundreds of these jesuses, all flogging religion to avoid having to get a real job.
Watch and learn.
Fools for religion will believe any crud at all, but they are getting old and dying off.
Try selling this cods-wallop to a modern well educated child and you will get laughed at as you should..
Christs, and disciples were a dime a dozen so to speak, we had many other religious salesmen at the time. It was a lot easier to get fed catering to the ignorant and their superstitions than working for a living that's for sure.
How many christs were there? Probably hundreds.
Here are 10 of them, that predate christianity and these do not include his contemporaries such as Simon Magnus, Apollonius et al.
http://listverse.com/2009/04/13/10-chri … ate-jesus/
It seems to me that the religiously impaired avoid reading anything that disagrees with their myth or clearly shows that it is all a pile of concocted controlling nonsense.
It was meant for the ignorant 2,000 years ago, but the ignorant by choice ignore progress and still want to be off with the fairies today.
I think the reason people scoff at the Sscriptures or find reasons to discount it as being "fiction," "contradictory," or even just a bunch of nonsense is because then they can feel justified in their minds for not following God's laws. They feel they can then do whatever they want with no ramifications to their actions.
getitrite - you are a master of picking and choosing what to read and what not to read. Perhaps some philological study would right your thinking errors, prejudiced as they are by a mass media that long ago stated that the new age should be that of secular humanism?
I have read the entire thread. So you have just asserted something that is only conjecture. YOU HAVE STATED A LIE...based on that conjecture. Sorry your God requires that you bare false witness against innocent people. I don't think I read that in the BIBLE...and this forum is about the BIBLE, isn't it? YOU should read the bible sometime when you get a chance.
Perhaps some common sense, some honesty, and some courage would change you from the delusional, willful ignorance that you favor over your own intellect.
You have some gall to talk to me about thinking errors. Sad indeed!
Even Christians can get the Bible wrongly. Conflicting interpretations!
There is a great deal of wisdom hidden in the Bible. It takes humility to find it.
Preacherdon makes a good point about the various "voices" of the writers and compilers. But there are lessons to be learned that few if any are discussing.
One of the mysteries I've discovered in my own exegetical research is that the Jewish mystics (Kabbalists) had a hand in preparing Genesis. Some scholars think the Kabbalah didn't originate before the Middle Ages. But the Kabbalah's "Tree of Life" is embedded in two chapters of Genesis.
I have also discovered answers to why God would give inordinate protection to a murderer and a liar (Cain). I have also discovered the real meaning of the seemingly outrageous longevity of the early patriarchs. Methuselah, the man, did not live to 969 years; but Methuselah, the tribe, likely existed far longer. Why? The ages of those early patriarchs are too short!
The Need for Humility in the Search for Answers
Biblical literalists are being arrogant and lazy. Our Lord required us to be humble and hardworking. How are they lazy? Because they think they have the answers already and have stopped looking. There is more in there!
And why are some biblical literalists disrespecting science? It seems that their arrogance is getting ahead of itself. Science studies reality and is doing a very fine job of it. Just look at the technology of our current civilization. If science were not batting close to 1000 (a baseball term for "perfection"), we wouldn't have all of these things. To disrespect or ignore science (reality) is to court delusion. That's not good.
Ignoring Science = Courting Delusion
Science tells us that humanity has been around for at least 200,000 years. So, Archbishop Ussher's 6000 years for humanity is far too short. We need a factor to multiply those ages. And, wouldn't you know it? The Bible supplies all we need.
The Real Reason Behind Noah's Flood
And the reason for Noah's Flood. The reasons most biblical scholars put forth do not stand up even under casual scrutiny. Wickedness and violence cannot have been the reason for Noah's Flood if humanity has continued to do these things. God was satisfied that the Flood had done its job. He promised never again to use the Flood.
Logic: If God was satisfied with the Flood, and man has continued to be wicked and violent, then the reason for the Flood must have been some special form of wickedness or violence which man has been unable to repeat since the Flood.
The clues are in there, and the true culprit can be found by comparing the new Genesis timeline with those of science. Amazing what you will find when you get your interpretation right.
The story of the great flood was clearly stolen from The Epic of Gilgamesh and added into the old myth book by the unknown writer(s) of Genesis.
Or did your god merely get the idea from the previous saga because he had no original ideas of his own?
Harsh words, Randy. "Stolen?" What if it was? It may also be possible that the Flood, as used in Genesis, was merely a symbolic morality tale referencing something entirely different. There are a lot of scientific problems with the Flood story. But none of them are impossible to resolve.
The biblical literalists' date (based on Ussher's 1650 timeline) was 2348 BC, but there was too much happening then. If the Flood was a real event, that was not the right date. Three years after this date, Egypt's sixth dynasty started. Thirteen years after this date, Sargon the Great conquered Sumer. Where did all these other people come from if Noah and his family were the only ones on Earth?
You see, Randy. Details. Research. Looking at the subject at least a bit objectively. I suspect that all of the objectivity has worn off of your "clearly stolen" statement, and it has become an idee fixe occluding the consideration of other possibilities.
A code I discovered in Genesis leads to a timeline compatible with those of science. It places the Flood at 27,970 BC. Wouldn't it be surprising if scientists were to find in the GISP2 ice cores saltwater damage at this date in their samples. Would they even report a thin smear of sodium chloride there? Would they have even tested for it?
It's interesting that the superficial tales in Genesis have other "artifacts" hidden underneath them.
Like the seemingly outrageous longevity of the early patriarchs or the incredible protection God afforded a murderer and liar (Cain). These are code for something else. For one, a biblical timeline compatible with those of science. For another, the Kabbalists' "Tree of Life" embedded in two chapters of Genesis. And many skeptical scholars think the Kabbalists didn't exist before the Middle Ages. Well, their "know-it-all" suppositions are now proven incorrect. Not only were the Jewish traditionalists working on Genesis, but the Jewish mystics, too. I suspect they hid a great deal of wisdom therein.
But if you think you are only a Homo sapiens body, then such things would be meaningless to you. Oh, well.
I like your hubs, Randy, but on the subject of religion, you are about as shallow as a dried up swamp. You show some intelligence on other subjects, but you go all one-dimensional on this. Pity.
At least you and the biblical literalists share one trait -- lazy arrogance on the subjects of God and the Bible. I don't mean that unkindly. But if you applied half the creativity you apply on many of your non-religious hubs, you could actually add something constructive to this discussion. That would be nice.
What if? It may also be? None are impossible to resolve? So where did the water come from which covered the entire earth? Where did it go afterwards? Giant sponges?
You tell me....you said none of the tales were impossible to resolve.
Your suspicions would be unfounded as usual, L77S. I am open to anything which would clearly show evidence for a god or gods. I've looked for over a half century at all sorts of supposed evidence. Nothing so far.
Perhaps it is those who claim to know what their god wants which makes it harder to swallow. Why in heck would he choose these people?
What a coincidence, I found the same code! But it was in Catch-22 instead of the bible.
I am truly devastated by your opinion of me, L77S. And thanks so much for the pity, I know it is indeed heart felt. Let's see how a christian really emulates Jesus.
You described me as, shallow, showing "some" intelligence(you are indeed gracious)one-dimensional, lazy, arrogant, only using half my creativity, not adding anything constructive...did I miss anything?
Weren't you the guy who claimed god parted the traffic (coulda been the Red Sea but I get you prophets mixed up sometimes}while you escaped from the mass of internal combustion powered chariots?
Yep, I want to be like you guys!
I realize it makes no sense trying to explain the bible to atheist (the devils children) you see they are so stupid they do not believe in GOD yet they believe in good and evil. Then who promotes either or must be a good being and must be a bad being. They are fooled into believing the Bible is false by satan's dillusion. Yet they have not and will not realize that the same DEVIL who invoke them with his lies knows more about GOD than you and I.
Satan was the bright and morning star. God's covering cherub and he was kicked out of heaven for his deciet. HE BELIEVES THE BIBLE, HE WAS WITH GOD AND HE IS LAUGHING AT ALL YOU FOOLS WHO DOESN'T.
You ATHEIST search and seek out every iota of the bible to contradict and argue etc. But what other book do you all do that in. Have ever argue with a book Einstein or Thomas Edison wrote? to say this is false and that is false? no you gobble it down like fools. BUT YOU QUESTION THE CREATOR, so out of place.
Have a bless day, and repent before its to late. Because if you dont you will find out their is a GOD and his BIBLE is absoultely true
Gosh, I'm awfully glad you "winked" at the end there, I was beginning to think your righteous insults and pious threats were serious. Whew!
Peace, Ladyjojo. Don't let Satan or ego get the best of you in dealing with the skeptics.
Our Lord says merely to offer the wisdom and if rejected, walk away. In the forum setting, we can merely thank them for their statement and then ignore them while we discuss important issues with others who are truly interested.
Don't shout with all CAPS, and certainly call no one "fool," lest you find yourself judged one.
I know patience is not easy, but try. And judge not. That's not your job.
Still the question remains: Symbolic or litteral? I say symbolic.
Wow - we agree. God is a symbol - not a literal being. Congrats. Maybe now u can stop lying for Jeebus?
/\ hate troll bot with no concept of even biology, much less physics.
You say the Bible isn't true. Perhaps you can explain why it is that it predicted the alliance between Iran, Libya, Egypt, and other Middle East countries centuries before they did.
= -- = - = -
I am curious where this prophesy is written.
I'd like to check this out
The message of the Bible put a cramp in their life style(s) and they find ways to dispute its message everytime.I am glad i read this hubpage it is so true.Joseph Potier hhtp://twitter.com/potier
First of all, I'm not a religion person however I do read my bible daily. The bible is an book of instruction on life, it give us the lesson that we need to learn. If you read the bible from start to finish you will clearly read what a lot of people is going through on daily basic. The same thing they where going through in the biblical times. Your asking the question does God has a voice, Yes he does. You have to believe in God first and know who is your father and your friend and most of all you Saviour. When something happen at random, we tend to say "Oh Lord" or "Oh God." But when it times to adhere to his words, alot times we don't listen. That the reason a lot of us can't hear his voice. Don't have Beliefs, you have to Believe. He is here!!!
And you say you are not religious. This is completely contradictory...and, of course, absurd.
Yup, you are a religious person, no doubt at all.
"it give us the lesson that we need to learn"
Just like the wonderful lesson in Deuteronomy 22:20-21 where the Israelites are commanded to stone a woman who can't provide proof of her virginity on her wedding night. What a wonderful life lesson from a loving and wonderful God:
"20 If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the young woman’s virginity can be found, 21 she shall be brought to the door of her father’s house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done an outrageous thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father’s house. You must purge the evil from among you."
NO ONE should be getting their advice, be it moral or otherwise, from a book this logically broken and morally bankrupt. It really does frighten me when people claim to be getting advice from the Bible, a book where slavery is condoned and the slightest offense is punishable by death. A book that tells you to submit yourself to a cosmic dictator of a deity or face the fires of Hell.
The bible is riddled with this psychotic malevolence from the word of the all luvin all omni-like god.
Always with the killing torture and maiming..... one would reckon the idea that this is not any sort of love would sink in to the thickest of skulls, but indoctrination takes care of ensuring no reality gets to seep in.
These are laws that promote holiness. They may seem harsh but then again you may feel the death penalty is harsh under any circumstance. One thing you do illustrate: God's standards far exceed yours. You seem to think that He is harsh but He is loving. He's so loving that He sent His Son to die to atone for your sins. If you would acknowledge Him as God's Son, put your faith in Him and accept Him you can have life eternal. If not, then you will know just how harsh He can be.
Divinity isn't real. It's fantasy sold to the gullible.
More petty demands and threats from a god who is allegedly loving. Threatening me with "how harsh He can be" is not a very good marketing strategy. LOL!
I just think it is neat that god talks to some of you. Now i know why things are so messed up on earth. God can't fix things because he is too busy having converstions with ya'll.
Why would you assume i don't believe? Did he tell you he believed in me? I wish he would have told me first. It is like he is talking about me behind my back.
He's not talking about you behind your back. He believes in you because He created you.
Why did he create me with cerebral palsey? I've been wheelchair bound my entire life. It doesn't seem fair to me. I have been an outcast and missed out on so many things. Why was i given this fate? Jesus teaches ask and you shall receive but my prayers have not been answered.
It may not be God's will for you to be healed. I can't say I understand your situation. I'm short, wear glasses and African-American which puts me at a disadvantage socially.I was also diagnosed with Sickle Cell Anemia. However, the thing Christians rely on is that this world is not our home, this is not the end. This is just a proving ground. Here we are tested to see if we will obey and serve God or not. If we will, we will have eternity with Him to inherit where we will not have the disadvantages and disabilities we now have. "ALL things will become new." If we choose not to obey, then we will spend eternity apart from Him.
First, do you believe in God? Hebrews says that without faith it is impossible to please Him. If you don't believe in Him then your prayers won't be answered. If you do believe in Him, then have you accepted Christ as Savior? If not, then that may be why you haven't heard from Him. However, I believe if you ask Him and you earnestly expect an answer, He will give it to you. If you seek Him, He will let you find Him.
BTW, cerebral palsy and other such diseases are results of our fallen state. From the time we are born we are on our way to death. Once we reach maturity, our bodies start to reverse the aging process. I know you've missed out on so much but so have some others. Helen Keller was born both blind and deaf and yet she came to know the Lord. Fannie Crosby was blinded as a child but she said she was happy because the first thing she would see would be the face of her Savior. I guess it all depends upon your outlook.
Randy, that is a very intelligent question to ask. It makes sense! Think about this, if you would. JC received beatings and nails being driven into his hands and feet. They mocked him, spat on him and made fun of him! Now a days, this still happens. We mock each each other, hurt each other by stabbing each other in the backs. We bear false witness. All these things JC had to go through and then to hang on a cross, bleeding to death. To have your own dad turn his back away from you.
How many children feel that their mom's and dad's don't love them? Then JC, had to see a flash of everything millions of us sinners have done over our whole lifetimes! Stuff he knows we are going to do, before we actually do it. To witness all the hate and anger and bitterness. Can you imagine?
So, my dear friend Randy, he did scarifice quite a bit. He gave up the remainder of his years on this earth. He basically was murdered for the sake of you, me and everyone else.
I think I owe my physical and emotional life to him. He has comforted me when I was at the end. He has brought joy in my life, with allowing me to take very good care of 7 cats and 2 pups that were sick. He has allowed me to find the words to express to you, that JC is pretty cool. I know I have never felt as much love as I have with JC. The bad days still come, and yes, I still find the roadblocks. I know as long as I am doing what he wants, in the direction he wants it. I will get my miracle. I never thought I would ever be a successful Published Author. Who me? No way!
The Family Court system chewed me up and spit me out. They said I was a hopless nut case!
Look at me now! I am sure you if had just a grain of mustard seed of faith, you would see a miracle in your life too! Take care.
To be honest with you, Jesus did not waste his time defending himself or his beliefs to those who did not want to listen. He said what he had to say and if they accepted it, that was good and if not, oh well, they had a choice not to. God gives people that choice everyday. Christians need to accept that. How people feel about the Bible, they're going to feel that way. What Christians should be concern with is their own relationship with God and making sure that they live the message in the bible and their conduct should be a witness to the power of the message of God. My problem with some Christians is that they want to preach it, but they don't want to live it and then wonder why people have bad taste in their mouth about Christianity...how about showing them the power of God? And even when you do, they still may not follow. This has already been prophesied.
How can you show us the power of god exactly?
People do that by living their lives in harmony with the message of the bible. I personally have seen the power of God in many people lives as I've watched their lives transform in amazing ways from the relationship they've had with him. Of course, not everyone is going to agree with this and again, I don't go back and forth with people who don't believe in the bible. They are free not to believe, but I am also free to believe in what I have seen.
Heh, it's funny I found a new thread to post in. This one seems to be
sort of a carry-over from the "Why does the Bible Offend" thread. I
won't belabor any point I made (to the ones whom received it) and
didn't make (to the ones who refused it). But, however, I will say
this to the author of this thread, there will always be people that
refuse to believe in the authenticity of the Bible. For various
reasons it does in fact offend people. The Bible is straight-forward,
it's black and white and, for better or worse, it has stood under the
most searing light of scrutiny for centuries, hence why it is such a
controversial book. And why so many people still follow its teachings
There will be people that are "lifers" when it comes to
cross-examining or arguing on "religious" board feeds. I am of the
belief that those talents would be better served whille dressed in an
Italian suit, in a court-room somewhere, rather than on message
boards. It's one thing to be steadfast in your beliefs, the most
applauded and admired people in the world had conviction, even if said
conviction was misplaced. But, I think it's a totally different story
when a person or person(s) actively SEEK these message boards when
they claim to want nothing to do with even the IDEA of God - in the first place - just to cause a stir.
And then there are those who make sweeping accusations about theists,
such as they are "self-righteous" or, my personal favorite,
"hypocritical". As if, some how, some way, being a Christian, or a
believer in God, somehow makes you into a blemish-free person. We are
ALL a work in progress. There is not one person that has ever walked
the earth or has been buried underneath it, whom can afford to be that
arrogant or foolish, and can pretend to "have it at all together".
As far as people on this board goes, I'd wager that most, if not
everyone, has some degree of intelligence. Many arguments, on the
surface, appear to be plausible. I am talking about the Atheists just
as much as I'm talking about the Believers. Many Atheists want to
rationale and explain the universe and its being through logic and
empirical evidence. But, not everything can be explained through
science, and logic. That's where FAITH comes in. We all have faith in
something, we just don't always term it that, whether you want to
admit that or not. You flex its muscles when you enter a restaurant and
order a meal, assured that the waiter/waitress will come back with whatever you ordered. You didn't see the meal being prepared in the back by the cooking line, yet you are totally convinced that, within fifteen minutes or less, you will receive what you requested...
The bottom line is this, there are staunch supporters and opposers of
the Bible - on both sides - and it does little good to "persuade"
anyone here of anything. And that's because neither the Christians or
the Atheists on this board are very open-minded. Neither are open or
willing to have their views changed. Therein lies the issue, someone
is right and someone else, by process of elimination, HAS to be wrong.
I'm willing to bank on the fact that there IS a GOD. His name IS
To the Atheists, looking at things objectively, you want to know if
there is a God or not, not "all roads lead to one" but, in all
seriousness, the TRUE God? Die. That's it. Before there is a protest,
hear me out, I am not saying "kill yourself". I am saying that when
your heart stops beating, you will leave this world and enter another.
And then, all your questions will be answered. Hate to say it, but at
that point it will be too late. Since the "era" of grace would have
expired. And you will spend eternity in a very unforgiving place.
Given the fact that you are not omniscient (nobody is) and that you
have never tasted death and risen from the dead, it's silly tripe to
assume that you will vanish into "nothing-ness" once your earthly life
To the Christians, if it is in fact proven that we will just "cease to
exist" after this life is over, what, then, have we lost? While we
were and are subjected to the same trials and challenges as everyone
else and sometimes we "missed the mark", all we've done is lived a
moral life by our conviction. And, in that, there is neither loss or
Not being open-minded is something we are all guilty of at one time or another. And we each have our own reasons why we choose not to be open-minded about one topic(argument) or another.
Um, DoubleScorpion, I am not calling anyone out for being "closed-minded" if you read what I wrote, I said BOTH sides where, which includes me (since I am a Christian). If anything, I am saying its useless to go on, and on. One side is/will be proven right and one side, wrong. That was all listed in what I said before.
Beautiful comment MrCharisma83. That's kind of my point. Those that truly seek God will be lead to him. But sitting here and debating or fighting with people who do not believe in God is pointless. And for those that don't believe in God, sitting here and debating and fighting with those who do is pointless also.
Time for the top ten....again...
Top Ten Signs You're a Fundamentalist Christian
10 - You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of yours.
9 - You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists say that people evolved from other life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were created from dirt.
8 - You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem believing in a Triune God.
7 - Your face turns purple when you hear of the "atrocities" attributed to Allah, but you don't even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered all the babies of Egypt in "Exodus" and ordered the elimination of entire ethnic groups in "Joshua" including women, children, and trees!
6 - You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and Greek claims about gods sleeping with women, but you have no problem believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed, came back to life and then ascended into the sky.
5 - You are willing to spend your life looking for little loopholes in the scientifically established age of Earth (few billion years), but you find nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by Bronze Age tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that Earth is a few generations old.
4 - You believe that the entire population of this planet with the exception of those who share your beliefs -- though excluding those in all rival sects - will spend Eternity in an infinite Hell of Suffering. And yet consider your religion the most "tolerant" and "loving."
3 - While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some idiot rolling around on the floor speaking in "tongues" may be all the evidence you need to "prove" Christianity.
2 - You define 0.01% as a "high success rate" when it comes to answered prayers. You consider that to be evidence that prayer works. And you think that the remaining 99.99% FAILURE was simply the will of God.
1 - You actually know a lot less than many atheists and agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and church history - but still call yourself a Christian.
Hello earnestshub! You are pretty darn amasing! You have inspired me to do two things. One, is I would like for your permission to research your questions, and see if I can answer them. I will write ahub about it. I will need your permission and you will get credit for the idea (s). Does this sound fair to you? And..the second part is this. A Spotlight Creation Inspiration challenge. I think it would be interesting to see how many answers and versions we get? Then, you and I...I will send more in a direct e-mail! You are awesome!
Why is it that atheists (who can't prove God does not exist) seem to be as rabid about their belief/non-belief as fundamental Christians (who can't prove God does exist) are about their beliefs? It's really amazing actually for those of us in the middle who are not sure enough to be so sure as ya'll are...
No need. It's the fact of the list itself that caught my eye...
I would NEVER state that I know the word of God. I have some idea of good human behavior but the idea of a specific God with certain attributes captured long ago by men who did not know the world was round as being THE GOD is not something that I would defend to the end. At the same time the idea that frequent posters here know for a fact the essence of existence and the fact of the non-existence of a creator are also a bit much for me. I go with the Tao: "The Tao that can be spoken is not the eternal Tao." Meaning nobody really knows. So to me certainty is it's own enemy....
Christopher Columbus believed the world was round. He had a reason to believe it too. He had read in the Bible where God said, He sat on the sphere, (circle) of the earth. You can read about it yourself in the book of Isaiah chapter 40 verse 21
The Bible may, or may not, imply that the earth is round; but Aristote first popularized the belief that the earth was round in the 3rd century BC after observing an eclipse. Just because the church insisted that the earth was flat doesn't mean everyone bought into that belief. Very few educated people of Columbus' time believed it.
You might have read a little too much Washington Irving.
You have my permission to do whatever you like.
I'd also be happy to convert to christianity or any other religion (even though I am a born again christian unless that can be revoked.) If you can offer any proof at all for any god.
I don't belief that JC was more than a compilation myself.
Apollonius of Tyana was a much better candidate for the title of the son of god.
So you are the other person who God personally speaks to. I'm so glad to finally know who you are, because I do sometimes get fed up when God is always at my house telling me about his day. At least when he is with you, I have some free time to myself.
by pay2cEM 10 years ago
If you want to see some truly faulty logic, torturous reasoning and mental gymnastics at work, confront a believer with a blatant Biblical contradiction, then sit back and watch them attempt to jump through the hoops of explaining how a contradiction isn't REALLY a contradiction. Accepting these...
by Rham Dhel 8 years ago
What kind of a person a person who claims that the god/s of all religions is/are same?Does he really believe it or he's just saying it to be safe?
by Elizabeth 8 years ago
I was a missionary in the christian faith for years. I went to a bible college. I've read the bible - at least a dozen times, cover to cover. I've studied the dogmas, the doctrines and the theology - and I'm an atheist. What I'm offering is an open forum (open to the degree...
by Jeromeo 11 years ago
Some say the Bible can't be relied on to speak for God because it was written by man and It contaradicts itself.Can anyone point out; a specific instance(s) or passage(s) in the Bible that is contadictory, to another passaage or instance(s)?
by Ahmad Usman 7 years ago
===> Saint Barnabas & the Bible:Among the disciples of Jesus, Barnabas was a dynamic evangelist. He was a Jew from the tribe of Levite and was one of the earliest Christian disciples and convert to Christianity (Acts 4:36) & (Acts 13:1). Paul also became a preacher, with the difference...
by mischeviousme 9 years ago
I used to be a christian, used to as in past tense. I went to church religiously and was entranced by the bible, but nothing I learned was realistic. I decided then, to unlearn all of it. I found thgat there was a gulf between rationality and intellect, one being fabricated by the body of the...
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