Why do Christians use the Bible as evidence in Theological discussion?

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davenmidtownposted 13 years ago
hahaha... at first century... .Honey the wagon has a flat tire.... do you want the ax?
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davenmidtownposted 13 years ago
I have never felt I had to prove my beliefs to non-believers or believers... but I agree about the bible in its original form....
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  A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You can't even prove your beliefs to yourself, never mind anyone else.
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  Don Crowsonposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Interesting that you would say that. No one can prove beliefs because there is a lot of subjectivity in them. We do not reach any belieft with pure reason. If we did, we would not believe something, we would know it.
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  A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Or, they are just myths.
  
  Exactly, and when you know something, it is part of reality and we can agree on it, but with a belief, you risk the chance of living a lie.
  
  So, the question is whether or not you would risk living a lie or would you rather know?
  
  The answer seems obvious, doesn't it?
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  emrldphxposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You can't know objectively one way or the other. Can you show me an empirical experiment anyone can perform to prove or disprove God?
  
  There is nothing that allows you to 'live in reality' as you put it. The reality is, nobody knows. We only have our subjective experiences and beliefs to go off of.
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  A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Replace the word "God" with any conceivable fantasy creature or being and you have your fallacy. In fact, leave the word "God" in and you still have a fallacy.
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  Rabgixposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You can't know objectively one way or the other. Can you show me an empirical experiment anyone can perform to prove or disprove the Flying Spaghetti Monster?
  
  There is nothing that allows you to 'live in reality' as you put it. The reality is, nobody knows. We only have our subjective experiences and beliefs to go off of.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You would be lucky if you could read the bible in it's original form. Again, another Christian who knows not what they do.
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  Don Crowsonposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You search the scriptures believing that in THEM you have eternal life. But they testify of me. Now, do you see what you are missing. If you miss the testimony of the scriptures, you've missed it all. If you recognize the testimony, you don't need the first century or the interpretation of anyone else.
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davenmidtownposted 13 years ago
hypocrisy... another awesome word... though I might consider using faith or blind-faith instead... they are not as barbed and may cause someone to pause enough to think...
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  A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Nope, it's pure unadulterated hypocrisy.
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davenmidtownposted 13 years ago
I think that was my point.... thank you for dumbing it down
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davenmidtownposted 13 years ago
I am sure these things happened with Jesus roamed about. Think of the poor treatment that lepers received.
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davenmidtownposted 13 years ago
It would probably just fall apart... sad really..... It could have been an opportunity to revive a dead language... but they might be worshiped too...
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davenmidtownposted 13 years ago
I thought the question was why Christians use the bible as evidence in theological discussion... not whether or not the bible is believable...
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davenmidtownposted 13 years ago
so rather then throwing psalm and scripture back and forth... maybe we should discuss why Christians use the bible as theological evidence to support their arguments?
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WD Curry 111posted 13 years ago
Stay on task. What about the starving baby? It ain't about me.
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WD Curry 111posted 13 years ago
Hey earnest. I see you are very proud to be a 5th generation Aussie. I would be too! The 2 best boards I have ever had were from there. I was the only one who could hold my edge in on the biggest day Cape Hatteras has ever seen. It was a mountain and a half overhead. The wind was blowing straight offshore about 15 knots. It is better than anywhere in Cali at that size. There were only six (or so) of us who could handle the outside sandbar at low tide. 2 were Aussies - good dudes - they could rip. It was the same sandbar where Blackbeard the Pirate went aground two days before the British Navy finally got him. He got in a vicious sword fight with a high ranking officer. When the officer ran him through he said, “Nice thrust”, and died. I was going to have you over for a beer, but you don’t drink. Have you ever had southern sweet tea? An Englishman I met said he could never drink cold tea. When he came over for dinner, he couldn’t get enough. We had to make some more. He was probably up all night.
I was up all night praying for the Lord to give me a scripture to share. Here it is:
From Wakan -Tanka, the great mystery, comes all power. It is from Wakan-Tanka that the holy man gets his wisdom and the power to heal and to make holy charms (better translation = art) Man knows that all healing plants are given by Wankan-Tanka; therefore they are Holy. So too is the Buffalo Holy, because it is a gift of Wankan-Tanka Flat Iron (Maza Blaska) Oglala Sioux Chief
Translation of Wankan-Tanka is Jehova Gyra. The bible says that God has a name that only he knows. That is the name that I want to know him by.
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earnestshubposted 13 years ago
An interesting post.
I know very little about surfing, and even less about native American religious beliefs.
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Jeffrey Masonposted 13 years ago
there are two parts to this question. 1) The bible has been found credible as far as historical documents go, it has been used to find old historical monuments. So it has value outside of the spiritual aspect. 2) obviously you don't believe in the God of the Bible but Something. Ask yourself what you believe in and see how much value that has compared to the Bible. I think you will find that the Bible actually has more value than what you obtain.

Have you ever read the Bible? This might be a place to start. It has been around longer than most people think. Check out the dead sea scrolls. You will be surprised that the more you study it, it has more backing behind it than what most people believe.

Truly hope this is helpful and leads you to a deeper thought about life. Life is worth nothing if you believe in nothing.
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  WD Curry 111posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Jeff,
  
  Why are you interrupting the holy spirit with this? Earnest does not know about Native American beliefs and the Lord has put it on my heart to share. He has given me the wisdom to handle this and you are getting in my way, Get a clue, my dear brother. Be still and hear what the Lord has put on my heart to share.
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Tlherald85posted 13 years ago
I still believe some of you should look up some facts. I wish the Bible could be read in its original context but it has been re-written so many times that it is impossible. And as stated it would fall apart if the original text could be touched. BTW I was only stating some facts about the Bible itself earlier. I do NOT judge people for what they do or dont believe in as I wish NOT to be judged. BTW after MUCH research LONG ago I am NOT a Christian as a few have thought it seems. I do NOT believe in the Christian religion at all. I do believe in facts. And those that said Christianity pretty much just wants power....... I agree. Thats all it has been since day ONE of Christianity existence........
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  WD Curry 111posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You have a sweet spirit and a good heart. Did the Lord put it on your heart to come? The Lord did not call you here to make a comment. He called you here to listen to something. Facts from the bible are useless here. The Love of God is not limited to or by the bible. American Christians act like the bible is god. They call it the perfect word of god. The Bible is not God It is a Book about God. The "Word of the Lord" is a living person. You can open the first page of John and see it for yourself. I know who this person is. Do You?
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  annlynn9posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  The Christian Bible is based, in part, on the circa 900 A.D. Hebrew Masoretic text. Among the Dead Sea Scrolls is a circa 100 B.C. scroll from the book of Isaiah. That scroll and the corresponding Masoretic text are virtually identical, with the differences consisting almost entirely of grammar and spelling and the one actual word difference having no effect on the meaning of the passage. The language of that scroll being handed down so accurately over a full millennium is a testimony to the utter devotion of the scribes to preserving the integrity of the scriptures.
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  Tlherald85posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  That there is and always has been and always will be MY problem with the bible itself. It has been passed down so many time, re-written, translated, etc numerous numerous times. How does anyone honestly know if it is Coreect?? There is NO way to know. I can't base my life on a book. I have faith, I believe in God or a higher power, what have you. I just do NOT believe in the Bible. Is that really so wrong?? Jesus himself (If you believe in him) was NOT a Christian so why should I be?? Because society says so?? I think NOT.
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  annlynn9posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  The term "Christian" did not exist during Christ's life on earth, but it means "little Christ". It's a term invented by non-believers in Antioch in the first few years after Christ, which should tell you how much the first Christians were like Him.
  
  Christ is Christ and Christians are smaller, imperfect examples of what it means to be Christ. In that sense, it cannot be denied that He was both Jewish and Christian. Ask any Jewish believer in Christ today whether or not they are both Jewish and Christian.
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GinaCPocanposted 13 years ago
Why can't this thread die already?
All it's doing is beating a dead horse.
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  WD Curry 111posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Did you read the thread, or just open up and type a snide comment? Please be still sister. I have a story to tell.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  And a great story as well. I have much respect for the First Nation Americans I have met, but sadly it has only been a handful.
  
  It's always nice to see history from the side of those on both sides, so this is fine as far as I'm concerned.
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  WD Curry 111posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Then we are cool. How about a hand. I am victim of real estate debacle in Florida. I have skills, but my customer base has dried up. My old Mom gave me a little money that I didn't ask for.I had to take it. I was going to use it to set up a booth at the flea market, but ended up here. How can I tell her all that I brought back were these beans? If I plant them will a beanstalk grow? Is there a golden goose or did I get ripped off?
  
  One more thing and I have to go. Why do these boxes jump around like this?
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yep!
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  mosaicmanposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Religion and spirituality is a hot topic. Everyone will have a point of view or take a side. At some point we will all take a ride on this "horse."
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WD Curry 111posted 13 years ago
Some American Cavalry officer said the Comanche’s were the best light Cavalry in the world. They (we) were defeated by the sheer number and technological force of the American Army. The Comanche’s pretty much died to the man. Their religion wouldn’t let them submit to the Greco-Roman doctrine of development. They believed that “God” made everything and the earth was their mother, since she nourished them. Where is the mother in Christianity? There is the “Bride of Christ” (real church), but that is daughter in-law.
The Comanche were very peaceful before the Spanish Arrived. They were instantly submissive, because they thought the Spanish were some kind of superior being (not gods like American history books say) because of the horses and shiny armor. The Spanish forced them to carry their armor and take care of their horses. There were two ages. The age of the dog (they used dogs like Eskimo) and the age of the horse. The Comanche’s caught on fast. They didn’t break horses like the Europeans were taught to do by the Romans. They talked to the horse and asked permission. I guess the horse said,” Sure, you seem nice enough, but please don’t use a saddle.” The Comanche’s used beautiful blankets (there are a couple left in museums) to cover the horses back. I’m sure the horses were proud of the way the Comanche’s decorated them up. They were smaller and faster than American horses, plus, they had no load other than a rider. You know how the Americans are. They go into combat with 50 pounds of gear.
The Comanche were in much better shape than the American army, with their diet of hard tack, beans and salt pork. They could shoot arrows at targets behind them at full gallop like the Mongols. They gave the Americans hell when they goaded them into chasing after them. Try shooting a seven pound pistol from a galloping horse. They had few rifles and they weren’t very accurate with them. They settled for shooting at the horses, but it broke their heart. They recognized the majesty of their spirit, like the Arabs did.
They did not see themselves as superior to the animals. Each had a spirit and was their relative. If they killed any animal for food, they asked God first. After they killed the animal, they apologized for being in such a pathetic position as to have to kill to eat. They were in Texas and did little cultivation like the “children of the rising sun” as they called eastern tribes. They shed a tear or two, mourned and sent its spirit to heaven with prayers and song. When they were done with the meal, they would hang out, and have a little smoke of tobacco. Then they would sit and listen with anticipation as the elders would tell stories and give riddles to the children to solve. One survives today in America . . . the “Guessing Game”. Have you ever played it? “What am I thinking of?”
The child responds, “Is it bigger than a bread box?”
See how the story telling quiets the soul?
They made beautiful weavings. If they were closing in on finishing a project and they had not made a mistake on it, they would throw a small one in. They did not want to be so presumptions as to compete with God.
American “Indians” prefer to be called first nation Americans. The Europeans called them Indians, because the dumb asses thought they had sailed all the way around the world to India. It is amazing how First Nation Americans are not bitter today.
Like I said, the Comanche’s almost died to the man. The Americans spared most of the women, but you know how it is . . . collateral damage. It is not a good idea to provoke the American army. Not necessarily because of their fighting prowess, but because about 25%(just a guess) of them accepted plea deals from the judge when they were facing serious felony charges for crimes such as assault with a deadly weapon or beating someone up in a fight. They also introduce things into the culture like Nike t-shirts and pornography. Things are never the same.
My great, great grandmother married an Arcadian (Cajun) Frenchman. Now there are seven or eight other nationalities in their, but I am happy to ha Native American DNA.. I am a mutt like Barak Obama. No matter where you think he was borne, he is the first Hawaiian President. The Hawaiians accept him as one of their own and that is what it takes to be a Hawaiian.
The Lord has shown me how this Hot Rod works. It is on Auto-pilot while Big Brother Is out playing golf. Let’s count coup and take it over. There are babies to feed.

Sorry about formatting, should I say it again.
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  Don Crowsonposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Not exactly sure what you point is, but I think --correct me if I am wrong--that you believe I am against feeding the poor. If that is your concludion, you have reached the wrong conclusion. My point is that nowhere in this country should there be hungry people. There are food stamps and charitable organizations all over the country that no one should be hungry. And it is my contintion that no one really is unless they have evil neighbors. There are too many organizations that help feed the hungry for anyone to be hungry.
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  WD Curry 111posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I'm not sure who you are talking to or who said anything to you about the subject. I don't know where you live. But around here it is tough. Reagan cut the federal programs years ago. He said it was the private sector's job to provide things like social welfare, not the government. He cut federal mental health facility money without allowing for any transition time. They just opened the door, turned the severely mentally ill loose and said,"Sorry about your luck."
  
  On the space coast, we have a severe problem with this. You can drive right by at least 20 on your way to church, if you get my drift. Hello?! The church IS the private sector but they can't find the problem with both hands (among other things). More later.
  
  Like we say in Satellite beach, Peace out!
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paarsurreyposted 13 years ago
Why do Christians use the Bible as evidence in Theological discussion?

Only if one mentions the wisdom of a quotation cited by Bible.
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  WD Curry 111posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  The love of God is the beginning of all understanding. I wish I understood how to get the thing up where you can undo and like that. Seems like it should be formatting, but I can only get the arrow to boggle around. Can you throw me a line paarsurrey?
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earnestshubposted 13 years ago
http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum … 904228/pg1
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Well all I saw was an abusive ill educated punk spewing garbage and attempting to pull lines out of scripture to prove something to himself.
  
  But then, as Cagsil stated, I'm intelligent and know scripture, so I guess what the idiot wrote would not concern me.
  
  I suppose some would be taken in by it, especially if they were clutching at straws and trying to discredit God
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  That's the whole point aqua, your god doesn't need any help being discredited. An ounce of common sense does the job perfectly.
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  We agree to differ.
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  WD Curry 111posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Dang, bro! That had a wicked barb on it! Don't be offended like Yankees always are when they visit florida's space coast to do some fishing, snorkling, scuba diving, have a BBQ from Woody's, sit in the sun on the beach, or just sit and listen to Alfredo play his guitar at Ambia Cubano. Try some plantain. That's just the way we talk in Satellite beach. We love anyone who comes here to take a guided fishing trip. Look out, Big Brother is watching!
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  WD Curry 111posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Brother Aqua. Take a rest. I got it handled. Didn't you read about the First Nation American thing up this crazy stream? I didn't use the bible to point to God and they were cool with it.They are just having a little fun with you and want to put a bug up your wazoo. Earnest is good at it. To tell the truth . . . I admire him for it. I went to KMI. We sat around and did this all day long, because we had nothing else to do.
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GinaCPocanposted 13 years ago
They will never get it aguasliver. you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink from it. You have to leave these types to God himself.
Revelations tells us if a Man is Filthy, let him be filthy still, if a man is Holy, let him me holy still. Another words, you can't change people. You can show them until the cows come home, but all your gonna get is a cow needing to be milked. They don't want to hear the truth nor do they want know the truth.
They want to sit here and question our faith cause they have none. Bash us because they are simply jealous that we are content with it. They want us to see things their way, because misery loves company.
I choose not to waste my time with them. I believe the author of this thread works for the devil himself, and Christians shouldn't be catering to him, but I can't stop even my brethren from falling into the devils traps either. His job is to cause strife among Christians, and so far he has managed to succeed with a few of them.
This thread as all his other threads have been nothing but a bash session against Christians. None of his questions serve any real purpose. They simply just bait, and yes people bite the bait and then his day is made.
May God have Mercy on his soul.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You are right, we will never get why people choose to ignore reality and worship psychotic myths without being able to see the blatantly obvious.
  
  Just don't have a real life I guess.
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  WD Curry 111posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Well put. You got chops!
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Happily I pass the baton....
  
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  Emile Rposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  That's one of the things I find mind boggling. How could anyone cheer on that type of post? It's rude, condescending and completely lacking of a point; other than to accomplish what I've already outlined.
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  Emile Rposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  That was one of the most spiritually lacking posts I've read. I honestly don't believe a god could be that filled with loathing. It would equate to self loathing. If God made man in his image.
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Emile, we are human, we bleed when we are cut and we get offended when people start on us just and slander Christ, simply because they are here to cause disruption.
  
  I see no reason whatsoever why we should accommodate those who hate God.
  
  You have a great ideal about who Christ was, and the sermon on the mount is a prime verse for believers to follow, but Christ also threw the money-changers out of the temple and spoke to the Pharisees in less than polite terms, indeed he was rude by any atheists standards.
  
  They come here to disrupt, if they were not here for that sole purpose, then you would begin to see a more spiritual forum arise, but whilst the spiritually dead haunt the forums, don't expect peace.
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  A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Notice that those words speak volumes about you and how you treat others. Notice also, it has nothing to do with how others treat you, it's all about how infuriated and disgusted you are that others don't accept your beliefs or join your religion and worship your God.
  
  Well said.
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  Emile Rposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I've said it before and I'll say it again. The religious need to stop throwing those examples out. The Christ was disgusted with the religious. The only examples where he got mad at people was when he was chastising the religious.
  
  The religious do not appear to be so very different today, than they were portrayed in the gospels.
  
  If you have one example where he stood around offering insult to those who didn't want to hear his message (other than the religious) I'd be interested.
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  annlynn9posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Emile, I can offer you an example in the converse. The widow who gave the last money she had to the church was certainly religious, and Christ commended her (Luke 21:1-4). The point is that Christ was never disgusted with anyone just for being religious. He condemned certain religious leaders who were responsible for teaching righteousness to the people but were total hypocrites in their own practices. It was hypocrisy, not religion itself, which he despised.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Untrue. It wasn't only the hypocrisy of the religious leaders. It was everything they said and did, including their religion and belief in a god.
  
  Which is one reason why HE said he was GOD! He said it to make an impact on his own followers. However, you're also missing a piece information with regards to how developed humankind was at the time where Jesus practiced his teachings.
  
  The people he was teaching were NOT even aware of their own life. They had no real self awareness. The "God" they were already told to worship was religion. Which is why Jesus substituted his own definition(god), so he could have their full attention. He was a god in his own life. He was fully self-aware and his intelligence was extremely high.
  
  It was probably from the missing years- age 12 through 30.
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  annlynn9posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Concerning the Pharisees, "Jesus perceived their wickedness, and said, 'Why tempt ye me, ye hypocrites?'" Matthew 22:18
  
  Concerning the devil, "Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve." Matthew 4:10
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  More than you know and was written, however, anything against religious rulers didn't make it into the bible. But, good show on you for not actually knowing this.
  More scripture spewed without having knowledge of the metaphorical parable. Therefore, all you're doing is supporting the religious leaders who put the bible together in the first place. Thus, you're supporting the hoax of religion's god. Good show.
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  annlynn9posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I was only in high school when I was taught about methods of debate and learned that folks who resort to insults and baseless accusations do so simply because they have no real basis for their position.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  There wasn't an insult or an accusation in my post. If you believe in the religion's god then you've not done your homework. Fairly plain and simple.
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  Emile Rposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I agree to an extent, but that isn't the point. Christians use the example of his anger as justification for being rude, inconsiderate and downright uncivil to non believers. His anger was only directed at the religious leaders and those who actively supported the structure of that religion. The exact same types who stump around the internet trying to appear as if their words are backed by a deity. They are a joke.
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  annlynn9posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You know there are charlatans in every walk of life - medical quacks, ambulance-chasing lawyers, etc., etc., Christians and so-called Christians are just human beings, and among them are those who present a false image of God, Christ, and the Bible. Do we condemn all doctors or all lawyers? Neither should we condemn all Christians.
  
  Most professing Christians I know are sincere and do NOT do any of the things I'm seeing attributed here to all Christians. That kind of generalization and name-calling is as wrong and untrue as saying all Jews are greedy, all blacks are lazy, all Pollocks are stupid, etc.
  
  Perhaps some of the critics here should actually visit a real church instead of paying attention to delusional hate-mongers such as the Westboro church. And please don't believe a person is a true Christian just because they say they are.
  
  "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. You shall know them by their fruits [the deeds they produce]." Matthew 7:15-16
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  Eaglekiwiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You hit the nail on the head.
  
  Which is why it is often dispappointing when a discussion turns into character assination ,or generalised ie 'You Christians'...etc.
  
  Even as a Christian ,Id love to discuss religious topics without the usual rude remarks...or immature one liners,but oh well it is the internet.
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  Emile Rposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I have been to a real church. I don't see 'true christians' as far removed from the Westboro bunch. There is little of Christ to be found in the face of Christianity; as I have seen it in the world, or on these forums. As they say, 'walk a mile in my shoes'. Perhaps the'true Christian' needs to do that to find a better understanding of the complaint against that particular religion.
  
  I do tire of reading posts that adamantly insist Christians are good, and any offensive ones aren't Christian. Oddly, the offensive ones get a big Amen for their troubles and no one who claims to be Christian stands up against the offending posts. I am left to believe they agree with them
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  annlynn9posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Who said that Christians are good? Christ said that no one is good except God. [Matthew 19:17]. Christians may offend others as easily as non-Christians do, only in a different fashion. So what did I say that offended you to which Eaglekiwi said "Amen"?
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  Emile Rposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I was responding to your post to me. I didn't see her amen, so I wasn't refering to that.
  
  You've attempted to state your point politely and clearly. I have no problem with faith if it has no problem accepting that we are not clones and doesn't attempt to force its beliefs on others.
  
  I don't quite understand your comment about good. I wouldn't expect a christian to be perfect. I'm not. So expecting it of others would seem a little unfair.
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  annlynn9posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I must apologize for the misunderstanding. Since I never used the word "Amen", since Eagle did agree with what I'd written, and since an Amen signifies agreement, I assumed you were referring to her with the "big Amen" remark.
  
  I likewise never said Christians were good, so I was addressing that remark in what I believe was the most appropriate manner. I appreciate your honesty in responding that that point.
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  Rabgixposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  LOL "The author of this post is working for the Devil himself?"
  
  I'm literally falling out of my chair right now hahahaaha
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IndiePharmposted 13 years ago
Why are atheists depending on religion at all? I read this conversation you're having and all the ways lead to conclusion that world without religion is world without atheists. You'd most certainly say that for believers, but atheists are in need to talk about religion than religious people.
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IndiePharmposted 13 years ago
God hasn't made money system, but men. For things that men have developed and made, God hasn't got anything to do with it. You don't have to be Christian, Muslim or a Jew to believe in God. God is a term of goodness in ourselves, and it doesn't have to do with anyone. Religion is a type of philosophy.
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poeticmentorposted 13 years ago
those who claim Jesus must stay on target, and remember the life-path that Jesus laid out . . . troubling circumstances are training, and strength is for service, not for bullying and pushing to get "our way." It may be just a book for some but to others it is a guide to a moral and peaceful existence. It changed lives. Obviously it has survived many centuries so it must hold some substance. Science changes it's theories daily, yet the holy bible and the holy Koran sustains, unchanging in spite of variations over translation. The message remains the same and is common among all religions and spiritual groups. so expect it I guess. besides I could call anything a bible..(could be that science book you refer to so much) 1
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  Rabgixposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  So then you agree that the Earth is 6000 years old, that you should stone adulterous women and that a man really built an Arc that housed every current species?
  
  Alrighty then.
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  annlynn9posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  First, I'm not sure the word "kind" in the Biblical text equates to "species". Second, how many species and/or kinds were there 4-5,000 years ago? Third, the Bible doesn't say the animals Noah took were adults, so perhaps they were all babies.
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  Rabgixposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Since the earth is millions of years old, 5000 years isn't really that long of a time. There were still millions of species. Don't be daft.
  
  The age of the animals wouldn't make a difference. Are you being serious right now?
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  annlynn9posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Are you saying that the space it takes to house two baby elephants isn't any different from the space it takes to house two adults elephants? two lion cubs instead of two adult lions? Any 5th grade student would know the answer to that.
  
  What do you suppose the average size ratio is between babies and adults of a species? Wouldn't the difference in space needed on the ark be the same as that?
  
  The ark had three stories and was 45 feet high (an average of 15 feet each story including decking), 450 feet long, and 75 feet wide. That's roughly 1,500,000 cubic feet. Many times bigger than most people imagine.
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  Rabgixposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Do you think that's enough space for EVERY kind of animal? Are you serious?
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  annlynn9posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, and every kind of animal does not mean every kind of cat or every kind of bird.
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  Rabgixposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  How do you know that? Are you interpreting the bible to your own ends?
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  annlynn9posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  As opposed to interpreting it to the extreme in order to suit your ends - i.e., to be able to argue that it's impossible? There is nothing in the text to demonstrate that it was more than one kind of cat, only more than one kind of animal. Cats are one kind.
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  Rabgixposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  So he took a tiger on board and it became a housecat in a few thousand years?
  
  Christian logic, *facepalm*
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  annlynn9posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Could be. Science is only as accurate as man's current level of knowledge and understanding. Flat earth? The Bible always said round. Hmm.
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  Rabgixposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  ...wow
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
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Romans814posted 13 years ago
Away with you, For it is written,
"You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it."
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jamaicavillasposted 13 years ago
OK. Man wrote the Bible, Qu'ran and whatever holy book you can think of. Man created god, god did not creat man. So, when christians, Jehovas witnesses etc etc use the bible to try to get you to join the club, they really are kidding themselves.

What bloody idiot would believe that you could creat a world in 7 days? You can't built a house in that time (but he's GOD! they say, he can do anything!) He can't stop wars, he can't end famine, he can't solve poverty. What a bloody useless god he is! A waster, a real slacker..but then, God does not exist and if you believe he /she/it does then you need to lay down somewhere cool and have a spliff.

The Jehovas believe that in the end 140,000 will rule from heaven and the rest will live in a paradise on earth...WHAT! These people are insane!

Thank god i´m an atheist!
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  Vladimir Uhriposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  jamaica... I knew you are smart but did not know how much really you are smart. ... but there is much more to learn.
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Sky9106posted 13 years ago
I heard of atheist and agnostics, but have never been able to have a discussion with any or even one of them. I believe sharing is the key ingredient in all of life, even among non believers. I think it will be interesting to indulge in a conversation with someone who is a convinced or convicted non believer, just to hear their views,after all they too are humans.

Give Thanks and it's my pleasure...
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paarsurreyposted 13 years ago
Why do Christians use the Bible as evidence in Theological discussion?

The Christians should highlight the wisdom narrated by Bible in its verses instead of just quoting the verses.
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  annlynn9posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Why, we'd have to highlight every word! [grin]
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Then there is no wisdom in quoting from Bible.
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  annlynn9posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Folks have been arguing against the reliability of the Bible for ages. Here's part of their record ...
  
  FIVE CITIES - The book of Genesis names Sodom and Gomorrah along with Admah, Zebolim, and Zoar as the "five cities of the plain." These cities were long considered by critics as mere legend. However, tablets from the Ebla Kingdom, which was destroyed in 2250 B.C., were discovered in Syria between 1974 and 1979, and they confirm the existence of all of the "Five Cities". Furthermore, one tablet lists them in the exact same order as does Genesis.
  
  UR - Bible critics once attacked the reliability of the scriptures by pointing to their mention of Ur as the birthplace of Abraham and to the fact that nowhere in the records or artifacts of any non-Jewish or non-Christian civilization was the name to be found. However, the ruins of Ur itself were discovered by archaeologists in 1854 and excavated 1922-34. Diggings there turned up a ziggurat belonging to King Ur-Nammu, and subsequent excavations revealed numerous artifacts which established Ur's status as a city-state and its existence during the time of Abraham.
  
  THE HITTITES - Critics once regarded Biblical references to Hittites as historically worthless because those people had been mentioned nowhere outside the Bible. In 1906, however, clay tablets were discovered which confirmed the existence of the Hittites. It is now accepted historical fact that they flourished from about 1800 B.C. to at least 1200 B.C.
  
  OLD TESTAMENT LAW - Critics also once claimed that detailed codes of law like those contained in the Bible were far too advanced to have been written at the time the Bible states. In 1901, a slab of stone which came to be called the Code of Hammurabi was discovered and dated to about 1700 B.C.; and it contains almost 300 paragraphs of legal provisions of the Babylonian Empire predating the laws of Moses by about 300 years.
  
  KING DAVID - David too has been the object of disbelief among Bible critics. However, a monument was discovered in 1993 among the ruins of an ancient city in northern Israel which dates to approximately 900-875 B.C. and provides extra-Biblical evidence for the existence of King David of Israel. It mentions specifically "the king of the house of David".
  
  THE CENSUS AND THE BIRTH OF CHRIST - Critics have long argued against Luke's account of the birth of Christ asserting three things: (1) Quirinius, named in Luke 2:2 as governor of Syria, did not become such until 6 A.D.; (2) there was no historical record of a census at the time of Christ's birth; and (3) people then did not have to return to their ancestral homes for any kind of enrollment. However, recent discoveries have confirmed Luke's record on all three counts, dismissing these criticisms. First is a coin bearing the name of an earlier Quirinius as governor of Syria and Cilicia, from 11 B.C. until the time of Herod. Second are writings by Seutonius and Tacitus dated at the time of Christ which refer to the regular enrollment of taxpayers and to censuses. Third is an Egyptian papyrus giving directions for a census: "Because of the approaching census it is necessary that all those residing for any cause away from their homes should at once prepare to return to their own governments in order that they may complete the family registration of the enrollment ..."
  
  ICONIUM - Relying solely on the writings of Romans such as Cicero, critics once argued that this city, identified by Luke as being in the region of Phrygia, was actually in Lycaonia and that Luke therefore was unreliable. Sir William Ramsay, one of those critics and one of the greatest archaeologists of all time, set out to make a topographical study of Asia Minor. In his research, he was forced to consider Luke, and he ultimately became convinced that Luke was "a historian of the first rank." What had he discovered that was powerful enough to turn his thinking around? It was a monument which proved that Iconium was a city in Phrygia, not Lycaonia.
  
  LYSANIAS - This man was referred to by Luke as the Tetrarch of Abilene at the beginning of the ministry of John the Baptist in 27 A.D. Once, the only Lysanias known to historians was a man who died in 36 B.C. Luke was criticized on this point by historians who refused to accept his record. Eventually, however, an inscription dated between 14 and 29 A.D. was found near Damascus which mentions the "Freedman of Lysanias the Tetrarch."
  
  POLITARCHS - Critics have also dismissed Luke on this point because the title was not found in classical literature or anywhere else outside the Bible. It was used by Luke in reference to the civil authorities of Thessalonica. In recent years, 19 inscriptions have been unearthed which use the title, and 5 of these are in connection with Thessalonica.
  
  These are just some examples of how archaeology repeatedly has proven the Bible right and the critics wrong. I know of not one example of archaeology proving the Bible wrong and the critics right.
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  Don Crowsonposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Great post and research. But it's all wasted on someone who knows everything.
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  Emile Rposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  She was responding to parsurrey. I think it's common knowledge that he doesn't know everything.
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I don't claim to be knowing everything.
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  Emile Rposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I know. I didn't understand what would have caused the gentleman to post that. You are fairly humble and open to dialogue, in my opinion
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  Don Crowsonposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It was all my misunderstanding. I thought that he had postsed that the Bible is all lies. My Bad
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  Don Crowsonposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Perhaps I owe you an apology. I thought you had posted the Bible is all lies. Now it appears that I was mistaken in identifying the poster. Sorry, my mistake. Please forgive me.
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  DoubleScorpionposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  The places and some of the people written about in Homer's Odessey is proven as factual as well. This still does not make the story contained with in factual, it is still a work of fiction. Same holds true for any text.
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  Don Crowsonposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  While that may be true, if those places had not been discovered by modern generations, some would conclude that the Bible is false because it speakls of mythical places. Much of our of historical knowledge is found in oral traditions. Records that survive give evidence of their own time; however the farther back we go, the sparser records become.
  
  By the same token, we are left with the stories from the oral traditions. We may choose to believe them as they have come down to us or disregard them because those people never really existed.
  
  I think the best way to treat them is to believe them with dose of healthy skepticism
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  DoubleScorpionposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You are correct. The OT was originally Oral stories. It wasn't written down, at least not in its complete form we see today, until sometime during or after the babylonian exile.
  It is not the geographical evidence that people feel is false about it the bible. It is the stories themselves. World Floods, Parting seas, a man surviving inside of a fish for 3 days and nights, things along those lines.
  What many are saying, is that there is no physical proof of the "outlandish" stories contained in the bible.
  There was no influx of population in the "canaan" area anytime after the exodus where over 600,000 people showed uo in canaan. There are many things like this that just isn't being verified with what is being found.
  Of course some of these stories in the OT, could be metephorical type stories to get a certian point across to the people.
  It is thought that the great age of people was actually in reference to the level of respect or honor that was attributed to that person.
  Another thought is the the great age was actually in reference to the family name length of rule. And that the begat used was to refer to another family taking over the patriach position. "This patriach begat that patriach" = "This patriach gave up or was taken over by that patriach"
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Romans814posted 13 years ago
The Antichrist spirit is showing its ugly head. In The Name of Jesus, be silent; you children of disobedience.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  A good place to put a message like that is up your nose. Let me know if you need any help.
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  Emile Rposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Some people!
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tsmogposted 13 years ago
First let me address the question based on what little experience and knowledge I have. Why do Christians use the Bible as evidence in Thelogical discussions. OK, unless I misunderstand isn't theology the study of religious faith, its practices, etc. What would you have them bring or use for a theological discussion?

I know not where theology has anything to do with atheism or conversion of an atheist. This seems to be the winding thread through this thread, or is that an oxymoron or something funny like that. If we are to discuss the theology of atheism or maybe humanist thought, if that be appropriate, then how about those parameters.

Athesism is a 'large' word. One hubber described herself as an agnostic-atheist. I don't remember who by name. However, I found that at least to be honest. And, that is not saying those adhereing to the strictness of atheisim are dishonest - smile.

I know of many, many different views of just what atheism is. The common link is there is not, 'God,' creator, higher power, etc. There are atheist who accept only evolution, but there others who have other theories and not creationism either. There are many tangents to be explored in that realm.

If you desire to discuss the theology of Taoism or Feng Shui or Chakras I am interested in this just as much as the theology of GENERAL christian thought. But, I will bring and quote from those pertinent sources regarding the proposed theological discusssion.

OK, there is no god. So, there is not any relevent theology. I say no, because religion exists with or without god(s). I am a religious fantatic when it comes to drag racing. Or, Sunday morning football.
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earnestshubposted 13 years ago
I do.
It is a religious replacement for the word mythology
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earnestshubposted 13 years ago

Sure, that makes sense!

not!
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earnestshubposted 13 years ago
There is no evidence for a god.

http://godisimaginary.com/i1.htm

Argue this.
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I believe there is evidence:
  http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/67947#top
  
  To start off we need to understand the terms, the meanings of the words.
  
  The definitions:
  
  Supreme- Greatest in power, authority, or rank; paramount or dominant. 2. Greatest in importance, degree, significance, character, or achievement.
  
  God- The best, the greatest form of life in existence, The Supreme Being.
  
  Life Form- an entity or being that is living or alive.
  
  Existence- is the world we are aware of through our senses, and that persists independently without them.
  
  The Proof:
  
  If there are more than one forms of life and they are not identical, then one must be the lesser. If there is a lowest form of life, then there must be a highest form of life.
  
  The highest form of life (whatever that is) is the Supreme Being... humanity has come to call that form of life, God.
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  A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry, but that's called a "Logical Fallacy" and not a proof.
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earnestshubposted 13 years ago
Hi Mikel, yes I remember the thread.
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starsofeightposted 13 years ago
Short answer:

The individual that practices faith, will find opportunities to practice it more. The more it is practiced, the stronger he becomes in it. Someday, he will turn to himself and believe that too.

The individual that practices not believing, will find opportunities to disbelieve more and more until the day comes that he will turn on himself and not even believe that.

Those who think that there is no proof of verity in the Bible, will not be satisfied with proof, simply because it is proof of the Bible. They are inclined to reject the Bible out of hand. Provide them with the proof they demand, and they will then demand proof of the proof.
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Sky9106posted 13 years ago
Give Thanks and praises ! The more I in read exerts of this thread the more I understand myself and the more I respect and understand others, even if they are "atheist." That is for the simple reason that because of who we are and what we have become.
I believe that Adam and Eve , is every man and every woman, because even myself, at one time during the immature stages of my life became quite angry at just about everybody, I felt as if I was not given a fair crack at all this and that if the Most High God had chosen me, I won't let no "woman" or no "Devil" convince me or get me to change my mind after speaking to my creator.
That was simply ignorance on my path, simply because I was not there.
But the irony of it all is here I am now, being asked to do that which in my eyes is even much simpler and look at my reactions.
I have long ago convinced myself that life had to follow some natural path with or without the teachings of the Bible, but I have also concluded that the Bible, together with whatever little self conviction that I find within myself should be able to make all the difference in the world in me and around me .
I respect the fact that someone will play the role of the spoiler , they do not have to, but because it is what it is, let it be done. That choice will always be theirs.
Blessings and Give Thanks .
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  Druid Dudeposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I agree that Adam and Eve are every man and woman. I further submit that the whole of Genesis is about the womb, birth, parenting, and evidences what we call EVOLUTION. Adam and Eve were made to change, and God allowed this change to occur, in fact, instigated the change. Knowledge evolves, and ours certainly has from that first scene. Good day!
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paarsurreyposted 13 years ago
One should always reference a claim from the Word revealed one believes in together with referencing the reason mentioned in the Word one believes in while doing theological discussions; otherwise it will be beating about the bush; never understanding the core of one's religion.
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Don Crowsonposted 13 years ago
A good scientist and a wise man would look at all evidence in searching for the truth. Reminds me of a political debate when some say your source is Fox News; therefore, it is not evidence. O=r someone could say You are quoting Solo; therefore,k you evidence is invalid.

But do you not know that truth is truth regardless the source? It is not invlid simply because you do not believe it. A man can say a rabbit's foot brought me luck while another would ask, "What did it do for the rabbit?
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  A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  So, if a good scientist or a wise man were to seek truth in thin air, what would they find there other than thin air?
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  Don Crowsonposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  More than likely nitrogen. I think that's about as thin as air gets as far as science knows.
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Don Crowsonposted 13 years ago
A good scientist and a wise man would look at all evidence in searching for the truth. Reminds me of a political debate when some say your source is Fox News; therefore, it is not evidence. O=r someone could say You are quoting Solo; therefore,k you evidence is invalid.

But do you not know that truth is truth regardless the source? It is not invlid simply because you do not believe it. A man can say a rabbit's foot brought me luck while another would ask, "What did it do for the rabbit?
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Eaglekiwiposted 13 years ago
The Bible is a most useful tool, instructional,motivational,historical but it will never save us.

Belief in Jesus Christ is what saves.
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godstruthisneededposted 13 years ago
The Bible is the perfect book to be used, because in it we see real science, we see the harmony between creation and true science. We see a word confirming our creation, giving its true history and also its final end. Not the end of the earth as a creation, of which earth is a creation type, but this creation as it is, cursed.
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Romans814posted 13 years ago
“Father, I know that I have broken your laws and my sins have separated me from you. I am truly sorry, and now I want to turn away from my past sinful life toward you. Please forgive me, and help me avoid sinning again. I believe that your son, Jesus Christ died for my sins, was resurrected from the dead, is alive, and hears my prayer. I invite Jesus to become the Lord of my life, to rule and reign in my heart from this day forward. Please send your Holy Spirit to help me obey You, and to do Your will for the rest of my life. In Jesus' name I pray, Amen.”
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Romans814posted 13 years ago
Today, could be a day of change for you. Don’t miss the opportunity to get it right in your life.
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Romans814posted 13 years ago
If you decided to repent of your sins and receive Christ today, welcome to God's family.
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godstruthisneededposted 13 years ago
No one needs to look to the scientist to determine whether or not God exist, just look at His work. "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:" Romans 1:20.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  From the only book that "proves" a god by stating that it exists because it says so.
  
  I am god. See, here is the proof.
  
  I wrote a book that says so!
  
  What a pile of unmitigated hate filled garbage!
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  annlynn9posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  The Bible does not tell us to hate anyone. To the contrary, "Love your enemies, do good to them who hate you, Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you. ... And as you would have men do to you, do you also to them likewise. ... But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again ... Judge not, and you shall not be judged: condemn not, and you shall not be condemned: forgive, and you shall be forgiven." Luke 6:27-28, 31, 35, 37
  
  On the other hand, there seems to be a hatred which you cannot restrain. I'm sorry for whatever pain has put it there.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  So much love!
  
  Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God
  
  Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)
  
  Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night
  
  But if this charge is true (that she wasn't a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father's house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB)
  
  Kill Followers of Other Religions.
  
  1) If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)
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  annlynn9posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It's interesting that everything you quote is from the Old Testament. Find something like that in the New.
  
  What did Christ himself do when he was arrested, falsely accused, brutally beaten, and then horrifyingly, torturously murdered? He did not rail against or threaten those who were doing it. Instead, when Peter cut off the centurion's ear, Jesus told him to put up the sword and healed the centurion. Then, when on the cross, he prayed for those who were killing him saying, "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do."
  
  What did the apostles preach after Christ's death and resurrection?
  
  "If you fulfill the royal law according to the scripture, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself}, you do well." James 2:8.
  
  "... where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work. But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be entreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy." James 3:16-17.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  God became his son then killed himself, he knew it all in advance, including the fact that he had screwed up when he made man apparently so he wiped man out a few times before he came to the view that the only way to go forward was to murder himself.
  After reading the OT that would seem like a great idea.
  The new testament busts a gut to put as much distance as it can between the murdering psychopath and it's son, but winds up contradicting itself in the process.
  
  Try reading the whole book then come back here and tell me it is about god's love.
  Despite the fact that the son says to honour the things of the father that would include condoning or actively asking for murder, torture, rape, slavery and all sorts of debauchery.
  
  Go on, read the whole thing. I dare ya!
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  annlynn9posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It is transcendent and relates to a reality beyond what is perceptible to the senses. We unfortunately are limited by the notion that we are at the center, while it is God who is at the center.
  
  The Creator has all authority over his creation. The potter has power over the clay and can and justly uses one part of the clay to make a vessel for honor (i.e., a jar for water or for oil) and another part to make a vessel for dishonor (a jar for a chamber pot, which is filled with human waste and eventually destroyed).
  
  God did not "screw up", at you put it. It all happened exactly as he intended - including Christ's sacrificial death, which was foretold in the Old Testament. It was only because of God's love that he provided the way of salvation.
  
  Oh, God never once wiped out man. The closest by far was the flood, and even then he preserved a remnant. God is always preserving a remnant. Even the days of the tribulation will be cut short in order to save some. Matthew 24:22.
  
  The bottom line, however, is that God does not owe anything to anyone while, to the contrary, the whole human race has earned his wrath and judgment. The miracle is that he chooses to save anyone at all!
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Well if he had a change of mind and wiped out all his staunchest believers the world would be a safe place for sane people again.
  
  Your logic is breathtakingly lacking.
  
  If I told you of someone who killed everyone in a town except for 8 people would you say he was just thinning out the riff-raff?
  
  Your beliefs fill me with disgust for your lack of morals.
  Your beliefs are the same as the muslims who are killing off the people who don't follow their version of a god and are too damn blind to see it.
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  annlynn9posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Your opening accusation is a base lie. It is not Christians who are blowing up buildings, flying planes into them, or executing people for their beliefs by the thousands as is done in Muslim countries.
  
  You have no idea what my morals are, and no basis for suggesting that I believe we should kill people who don't believe as we do, yet you presume to judge and condemn.
  
  To your question, "If I told you of someone who killed everyone in a town except for 8 people would you say he was just thinning out the riff-raff?", I say again that the potter - God - has every right to determine what should be preserved and what should be destroyed. I do not claim that right for myself or any other human being, but Muslims do claim that right for themselves.
  
  If anyone lacks morals, it is the one who accuses and condemns unjustly.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Come off it! Just because you are no longer allowed to kill those who don't believe in your god in civilised societies doesn't count!
  
  If you were allowed to you would still be murdering the unbelievers in your stupid myth and you should know that. The only way anyone has been allowed to disown your psychopathic invisible friend is because of laws that were introduced to stop you.
  The muslims have the same god, different interpretation, but still a psychopath.
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  annlynn9posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I know no such thing, and neither do you.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Sure it does, it tells everyone who reads it that anyone who disagrees hates god or is controlled by an evil spirit(thus generating hate).
  
  Next time, try reading your book with an open mind, instead of closed.
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  annlynn9posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Try reading far enough to find out how the believer is instructed to view and respond to the unbeliever. Yes, the unbeliever hates God - as evidenced by the posts on this blog - but the Bible tells us not to hate in return.
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  Evolution Guyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Why do you hate me for not believing in nonsense? Why are you lying about me? I don't hate anyone - least of all your Invisible Super Being.
  
  Try reading Richard Dawkins "The God Delusion" to discover why you are so hate filled and feel the need to attack and lie about unbelievers. Read it all the way through and spend many days contemplating the truths in it. Then maybe you will understand a little. if you need any help with the big words - feel free to ask here.
  
  Good luck on your journey.
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  annlynn9posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Well, you must be getting desperate. I've said nothing anywhere here to suggest that I hate you or anyone else.
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  Evolution Guyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It is obvious that you hate unbelievers. I pity you.
  
  Have you read the book I suggested? It will open your mind - if you read it properly.
  
  Good luck.
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  Dave Mathewsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Where did I ever say I hate anyone? Nowhere! If anything I pity the unbeliever whose eyes are closed to "God's Truth"
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  Evolution Guyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I was not speaking to you.
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  annlynn9posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Evolution Guy, how is it obvious? Please explain.
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  Evolution Guyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Your attitude and words.
  Did you finish that book I suggested yet?
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  annlynn9posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Describe them. What words? I would ask what attitude, but the only way you can judge my attitude is by my words. So, again, what words of mine tell you that I hate unbelievers?
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  Evolution Guyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Please stop evading the question. Your hatred is self evident. Why else would you accuse unbelievers of hating something that does not exist? Projection.
  
  What did you think of the book I suggested? Did you read it and meditate on the Truth it has?
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  annlynn9posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Asking for specifics is not evasion. The problem is you have no specifics to support your accusation.
  
  I have not read Dawkins but would be happy to do so if I could count on you to read Hal Lindsey's "The Late, Great Planet Earth" ... or better yet, if I could count on you to read the Bible cover-to-cover.
  
  Can you show me where I have said anything that demonstrates hatred for unbelievers?
  
  There are a few unbelievers here, such as Emile, who try to have an honest, intelligent, civil discussion, and I very appreciate them. Perhaps they are as embarrassed by the others as I am by certain Christians and supposed Christians who misrepresent and dishonor God.
  
  Science is not truly represented by the perpetrators of certain evolution hoaxes nor by those who insult, ridicule, and antagonize people of religious faith.
  
  However, even the kindest and purest Christian is but a poor reflection of the God who made us and loves us, for only God is perfect. The Lord Jesus Christ came to pay a debt He didn't owe because we owed a debt we cannot pay. He came in immeasurable love and infinite mercy. That same Jesus will come again to judge the living and the dead. Even so, come Lord Jesus.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Why don't you try reading it. I've done it 3 times.
  You see, your view is that people who don't believe hates the god you worship. Yet, it's not the case. It's YOUR actions which many dislike. It has MORE to do with YOU the individual than it does with the god you worship.
  
  You're a walking example of not understanding people nor do you understand your own life.
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  annlynn9posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I am amazed at the supernatural ability of some folks here to discern what is in another person's heart and mind when what that person has said evidences a case quite opposite to their accusations. At the same time, it is quite astounding that those same persons say very hateful things about God and yet claim they do NOT hate God. I do, however, understand that you dislike me for the information and dialogue I am able to bring to this blog.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I have no supernatural ability like you have no real god, just an imaginary one.
  
  And, if your heart is true like you claim it to be, then you would walk the walk of what you're supposedly feeling. Yet, here you are? Yes, I know you can twist it around on me, but then again, I'm just here pointing it out.
  Apparently, psychology 101 for those who don't know any better- you must be seeing a reflection of yourself own self hatred. It's also ironic that you're making claims of hate and it's a proven fact that I don't hate your god or even hate you.
  
  I love all of humanity. I just don't like your actions, which doesn't constitute hate.
  You've brought nothing to this FORUM thread(not blog). If you have half as much information(knowledge) about your own god, as you do about using this forum, it wouldn't be a surprise that you would be a danger to yourself.
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  annlynn9posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  "Yet, here you are?" ...
  
  Does my very presence here somehow tell you my heart is not true? "Knowing" that another person's heart and mind is opposite of everything they've said and done is nothing short of supernatural. Have I once said I hate you or anyone else, or that you or anyone else are a bad person?
  
  On the other hand, you've made numerous statements like “And your point? If you have one that is?”, which indicates that you are not satisfied to ask a question respectfully but always make it another opportunity to insult Christians.
  
  I believe you're referring to guilt transference, which is ironic under the circumstances.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Actually my dear, you need to seriously learn about being human. Actions dictate meaning. Thus, your actions show you're selfish in purpose.
  You claimed I hated your god. That's still making a claim that I hate something which you wouldn't know anything about, considering my words are specifically telling you I don't hate anyone. Being hateful does make a person a bad person. Please learn the difference.
  Why would I be respectful to you, when you're not respectful to yourself? You want to be treated with respect? Then treat yourself with respect and you'll be given the respect you're looking for.
  Religion is all about guilt. It forces one to believe they are not worthy solely based on guilt. So you having guilt is built into you by now. You're only seeing your reflection. You assume ALL people are guilty of sin, even when you don't even know them. Your actions are dishonest.
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  annlynn9posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Oh my word. You folks remind me of some of the kids in grade school. You may be right about one thing, though. If I had respect for myself, I would not entertain the kind of dishonest, abusive rhetoric that's hurled about in this arena.
  
  Oh, and I don't have to assume that all people are guilty of sin. Did anyone ever have to teach their babies and toddlers NOT to share? Quite the opposite. Always they have to be taught to share. The self-centeredness of sin is there from the beginning.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Grade school? Ridiculous.
  Bad perception on your part.
  Sure you do, because your bible(or religious book) already told you everyone is guilty.
  The fact that you bring up a toddler? Shows how limited you are and your argument is.
  Self IS ALWAYS there, as is one's EGO. It takes effort to see beyond your ego, so you can always be doing what's right for the sake of doing what's right. Something you apparently don't have a clue about.
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  annlynn9posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  "Grade school? Ridiculous." = Denial without a supporting argument for your position.
  
  "Bad perception on your part." = Judgment based on bias, again without a supporting argument.
  
  "Sure you do, because ..." = Denial of evidence. The fact that the Bible tells me all have sinned does not negate the evidence of that sin. If you go to a doctor with symptoms you suspect indicate a particular disease, and the doctor gives you a diagnosis which confirms the disease, were you wrong to consider the symptoms? Were the symptoms less valid?"
  
  "The fact that you bring up a toddler? Shows how limited you are and your argument is." = Failure to demonstrate why the analogy is wrong. Leap to insult, indicating a weak argument.
  
  "Self is always there, as is one's ego. ..." = Does not negate the evidence of sin.
  
  "Something you apparently don't have a clue about." = Another resort to insult.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Lady I have to 18 years old to have an account on Hubpages. How pathetic. Like I said ridiculous is your statement.
  Assessed by your actions. Judgment is just.
  And you're unable to see sarcasm?
  No, but Jesus' death did.
  Bad analogy.
  Don't need to demonstrate stupidity and how it's wrong. Stupidity speak for itself. You're getting nowhere fast.
  Doesn't prove sin exists either. Duh!
  Insult? If you find that insult, then get over yourself.
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Romans814posted 13 years ago
Today, could be a day of change for you. Don’t miss the opportunity to get it right in your life.
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earnestshubposted 13 years ago
Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests

Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)

Kill Witches

You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)

Kill Homosexuals
"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)

Here is your psychotic god distributing his "love"

Kill Fortunetellers

A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)

Death for Hitting Dad

Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB)

So much love!
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godstruthisneededposted 13 years ago
A man can make atheism his god, but athism is the most invisible thing there is. The scripture has provided far more evidence about creation as a result of a creator, than atheism has to dispute it. What is obvious, is that atheism has not establish anything other than that it has no basis, not even in anthropology. The bible is the only consistant record of human kind. All that our world is, is all that we are, physically.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  The fact that this is all bulldust doesn't worry you?
  
  Not believing in fairies requires no other belief system at all.
  
  You don't call people asantaists do you?
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  ediggityposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Atheists have established that they think about GOD just as much, if not more than one who believes in GOD.
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earnestshubposted 13 years ago
If that is love, I wonder what hate looks like?
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earnestshubposted 13 years ago
Some of the non believers simply don't want lies and ridiculous myths passed on to their children ot interfering in the lives of others by claiming to have the high moral ground when their own words show they don't have any morals or capacity to accept their fellow human being unless they follow the same nonsense that they do.
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Romans814posted 13 years ago
@annlynn9, continue to let your Light shine. God Bless
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  annlynn9posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you very much for your encouragement.
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Crithaxposted 13 years ago
There is nothing wrong with believing in what you want to believe in, it only becomes a problem when you become ethnocentric in the way you treat other people.
Ethnocentrism is not as extreme as racism, imo at least, but most people on the internet are closed minded and dismiss ethnocentric behavior as my morals and values are correct and better then yours.
Just some food for thought.
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Romans814posted 13 years ago
You know the answer to that question, Satan. Jesus defeated you in the wilderness with the Word of God. If you’ve forgotten; let me remind you:

4 But He answered and said, “It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.’”

5 Then the devil took Him up into the holy city, set Him on the pinnacle of the temple, 6 and said to Him, “If You are the Son of God, throw Yourself down. For it is written:
‘ He shall give His angels charge over you,’and,
‘ In their hands they shall bear you up,
Lest you dash your foot against a stone.’

7 Jesus said to him, “It is written again, ‘You shall not tempt the LORD your God.’”

8 Again, the devil took Him up on an exceedingly high mountain, and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory.

9 And he said to Him, “All these things I will give You if You will fall down and worship me.”

10 Then Jesus said to him, “Away with you, Satan! For it is written, ‘You shall worship the LORD your God, and Him only you shall serve.’

Let me give you something to think about Satan.
IT IS WRITTEN:
so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. In the name of Jesus;
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  wildernessposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Many things are WRITTEN, but few can stand the test of truth. None of these qualify.
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  annlynn9posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  To Romans, Don, Vladimir, and other Christians in this blog - May the Lord make his face to shine upon you and be gracious to you. Keep the faith!
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  Vladimir Uhriposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  annlynn9, Bless you sis, abundantly. Lord is so good, Glory to Him!
  reply report

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