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Why do Christians get so bent out of shape when you tell them the bible is just a book?
Many versions of this text are different, book order different, passages missing, especially ones referring to the so-called resurrection (not found in the older bibles.) The books are clearly written by men in their opinions and not "the words of God." It's never referred to as the bible (Byblos means papyrus in ancient Egyptian.) It was called by 13 different names, Jesus was called many names, etc., proves different men wrote parts of it. Too many discrepancies to be called anything more than a collection of short stories.
Many books of the Bible mention Jesus. Is it possible that so many authors conspired to put together these stories, and to what end? The Bible was written by men, but it was inspired by God. Sure, the fact that men wrote the Bible means that mistakes are very likely. Nevertheless, the stories in the Bible had to be told. Otherwise, why tell them? A more direct answer to your question is this: the Bible has a lot of meaning to people. For this reason alone, people get bothered by the notion that the Bible is just a book. To believers, the Bible is everything. The Bible represents the word of the Lord. So naturally, any statement that reduces the word of the Lord to something simple will cause a negative reaction in believers.
Prove it wasn't,everything you've said has been addressed&debunked,you can find answers by a simple Google search,I have a hub page all about these things but you evidently are so full of yourself you need not investigate.UneedSTUDY :-)
Should the biblical God know how many angels that there are? If so what does the bible say about that number? 1/3 is not a number. Also there was not a single angel according to the bible to protect, or guard, Adam and Eve.
The purpose of the Bible is given to us in 2 Timothy 3:14-17. It's main purpose is so you know how to be saved and sanctified. It is not meant to talk about everything in history. God need not prove to you, his creation, that he is God.
It isn't meant to prove to u the existence of God although it's very existence is proof of God as is His description in Genesis of the greatest miracle of all,creation of the universe&all that is in it.It doesn't talk about a lot of things
because it is not in it's scope, there is no reason to talk about a lot of things because the purpose of the Bible is to make you wise unto salvation, to show you how to get saved and sanctified. That is the focus.
"Prove it was inspired by God".
That was funny.
The fundamental difference between religion and science is that folks believe while at the same time lacking scientific proof.
Tsad - I'm amazed at how someone who supposedly was my friend now attacks me in full force because I disagree with his doctrine - who sounds like a Liberal now?? I'd expect that from Norine, not you.
Why would you question that I'm a friend?A friend wouldn't stand by and let you go on without pointing out your error now would he,¬hing I've said isn't true,if anything you crossed the line of friendship by your behavior.Miffed?Really?
Nice try - your 1st paragraph is filled with anger, accusations, and negativity. No, you wanted to "hit back" first then preach to me. I'm sorry but using a quote from the book to prove the books validity isn't a sound agreement.
You see you aren't concerned at all with whether the Bible is the Word of God or not,you are upset that Christians don't ignore you when you express an opinion that will cause you to loose your eternal soul.Christians can't ignore that.
TSAD the fact the bible incl Genesis is not accurate, questions your assertion that it has to be from God. Yet, there is nothing Godly about the bibleS It is comparable to a Fable. The bibles can't be self authenticating! Authentication require FACTS
What specifically is not accurate in the Bible? A fable? And how does a fable have Scientific Facts & Foreknowledge before discovered by man? http://eternal-productions.org/101science.html
Hit back?No just telling it like it is, and you shouldn't be so thin skinned about honest criticism,seems you can dish it out but can't take it.You really are a bit full of yourself,I understand why you wouldn't want to submit to God.
Should U doubt me, ask nearly ANYONE else. Check his history of insulting, berating, attacks on those who don't AGREE w/ his every word. It's beyond rude & obnoxious. He IS Norine w/o the QUOTES. She has the excuse of stupidity, He's just nuts.
He knows he's hated. He LIKES that. It's a badge of HONOR to him. Now, as he did 2 me, he'll drop insults where ever & whenever he chooses. I trust U can handle him. He just disgusts me. He turns on people like a "mad dog." I KNOW & now U kno
TSAD the ? is what is true about it? How is Genesis accurate, or even most of the bible accurate, factual? Fable yes, a lot of stories many contradicting themselves. 1000 years to compose it, 30 authors. Where is God in it? GEN is vague and ambiguous
U know not enough room here but if you really cared about the truth u'd have googled these things&gotten answers to every objection u spew.I know that's too much work for someone who isn't looking for truth but only excuses to not believe.
Yeah..just google & what U'll see is MORE of the same by more people of the same mind set & So? Ur point? 500 people can B just as wrong as 1 or 1000.WHO addressed it?WHO debunked it? Not all can be brainwashed! Just the puppets. Just the num
That's right Paula,I mean how can there be anybody out there with more intelligence,insight&accomplishments,dedication to the truth,study&revelation than you!WHO addressed it?WHO debunked it?It's all right there if u look&study,takes effo
Someone around here really does attack the person and not the position. I think maybe we should take note of her propensities. The Bible self authenticates.
I'm going to walk the middle line. Genesis is an allegory of creation that has been blown out of proportion. Zecharian Sitchin, the late Jewish scholar, basically said the OT is an outline of history, and historians have to fill in the blanks.
El Shaddai - many news stories mention Barack Obama and his actions are stated differently across them all, same would hold with a charismatic man like Jesus. Would Valerie Jarret describe Obama differently than a conservative news site? Yes
How does one prove inspiration? Many musicians say that their music was inspired by somebody. How does one prove that? With regard to news stories. Which one would you believe? The one that is consistent.
I'm in full agreement that its amazing as a source of inspiration, especially with Christians, as is the Koran with Muslims, etc. My point is that its a collection of accounts of events recorded by men and subject to their interpretation.
I am sure you can use 250 char to show why Genesis isn't vague and ambiguous. It didn't give the church the correct info on Sun revolving round the Earth? No timeline, Also it was 10000 yrs into recorded history before it was written???
Brad,I've already told you the Bible isn't written to talk about everything in history.The purpose of the Bible is to make you wise unto salvation,to show you how to get saved and sanctified.If you notice in the old testament it basically
traces one bloodline through history.Whose bloodline?The Messiah.That's what it is all about.The whole theme is redemption,we lost it in Genesis&we're going to regain it in Revelation& the way we regain it is God is going to intervene
he's going to come in (through the inspired word of God) and we're going to trace what he has done throughout history.That's what the Bible is about.Not a lie,a super natural book.Because anything seems vague doesn't mean it's false.
This is the perspective you should explore https://streaming.answersingenesis.org/ … enesis.mp4 Any real scholar will tell u Bible must be analyzed in context of wholebook
myths and legends of other cultures - ancient paganism, modern mysticism, the non-Christian beliefs of people both civilized and uncivilized throughout the rest of the world were the source for the bible and it's legends.
Ralph that is what you choose to believe, not the truth at all. there are cases of borrowing, but in these cases the Bible was the source, not the pagan myths (despite pseudo-academic claims to the contrary)
The "Great flood" - Epic of Gilgamesh (700 BC) Puranas text great flood, build a boat, Greek Bronze race & Titans and an ark, other examples of the story in history that pre-date Christianity
TSAD, what you're missing is this: People have a right to have opinions that will cause them to lose their eternal soul. You say that Christians "can't ignore that" - yes we can. Christ didn't badger those who rejected his Gospel - PERIOD.
"the stories in the Bible had to be told. Otherwise, why tell them" that is why Perez Hilton and TMZ also exist I guess...
LoL! That is the scary truth! Humans WANT religions - and in fact, 'leaders' claim that they are needed. They certainly keep people both connected and divided - which is helpful for world governments. NT stories came from lots of places - do research
Religion is about control, just like government
So Jesus knowing their deciet went to peoples homes with their own genuine copies .they also were good remembering what was written as they faithfully stood and read from the original scrolls from habit
Again, WHAT deceit, K&T? What did Jesus supposedly expose that Jewish leaders didn't like or whatever?
BC people have been living on this planet seems to think they own it
well if that was case no one would die in it.We live as granted but what we do with our time and life exist free will though we may live against God wishes.
Will he envite again ?
Miffed? No just telling it like it is. Man I must say I am surprised to see you using liberal playbook tactics even before starting a discussion. Your question I am sure was your reaction, triggered at least in part, by my confronting your opinion that because the Bible doesn't use the word abortion it has nothing to say about abortion, which is totally untrue and when I pointed out your error YOU got so miffed you posed this Q&A solely to get back at me and/or smear all Christians at the same time. You obviously have some issue going on here that goes beyond whether or not the Bible is just a book and not inspired of God (frankly the same problems most atheists have). The Bible is actually THE Word of God and there will come a day when everybody will have to reckon with that.
You've said you have read the Bible. I don't believe you have read the entire Bible but if you have just reading it gives you absolutely no authority to declare that it isn't what it, the book itself, claims it to be, the truth, the inspired word of God given to man (according to God's ways, which are not man's ways). I'm sure you'd agree there are many books, books which are not of a supernatural nature that I'm sure you could read and not understand a thing in them. That is because those books need to be studied, even then you would need instruction from outside sources, teachers or experts to understand them. You can't read a book and become a brain surgeon. How much more is it necessary for fallen sinful man to have helpers to understand a book written by the holy, infinite, omniscient and omnipresent creator of the universe?
To understand that you first have to know him, to understand (what you are capable of) His nature, His purpose and His will. If He is who He says he is in His Word would He not, out of love for His creation, us created in his image, provide us a road map to who he is, who we are, why we are here and how to live and be saved? Saved from what you ask? From ourselves, our sin and death. It's up to us to follow it.
It is not hard to conclude to understand the creator of the universe, of you, you need to study the Bible, to get instruction from those who have gone before you often having spent their lives studying thew Bible but most important you need the Holy Spirit to guide you, to help you to see the truth. That's why He has provided pastors & teachers.
The Bible says you cannot understand or begin to know God if you don't believe that He is. "And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him."
So if you approach the Bible as a skeptic and do not believe that he exists you are prejudiced against the very author of the Bible. Do you think that the creator of the universe and all that is in it is incapable of providing His Word through inspired men of God for us to know all that we need to know. If you do then you do not believe in even the possibility of a creator, and then u are truly lost.
Your right, I did ask this question based on that discussion, but not to smear you. You'd best watch your references to saying I'm using the liberal playbook - what comes around goes around.
Then why did you have to characterize Christians as getting "bent out of shape" or "miffed"? That is an obvious smear,you could have made your point about your belief the Bible isn't inspired without demeaning believers, a liberal tactic
Because it's true - look how bent out of shape you are over it. If you questioned my religion I'd say, OK, that's your opinion and move on. I don't need to demand everyone believe my way is the only right way, but it seems you do.
But it's not my way.It's the truth given to you by your creator.You are rejecting His way,for what? Something that satisfies the flesh.If I wasn't your friend I'd say nothing,I wouldn't care if you knew the truth or not.I'm not that.
Ralph, Sorry. U R now just C-ing the REAL Tony. Claims 2B Christian, Reality is he's a "nasty," over-the-edge zealot. It was not 4 me 2 warn U. I knew U R intelligent enough to C in time. He never fails 2 show his true insanity. It gets worse.
Well isn't that sweet,Birds of feather?Thank u Paula.It certainly looks like the goal,Ralph&Paula,is purely to belittle &demean the messenger.Out of everything I've said about the Bible ALL you do is try to make me look"bent out of shape"
Evidently youo can't refute anything I've said about scripture (or don't want to try).It is obvious from the start what is really important to Ralph is making it look like Christians are angry nutcases,not the truth about the Bible
I thought you were an open minded truth seeker,but you have shown yourself to be anything but when it comes to the Bible. If you can't accept the Bible is the word of God then you have no basis for salvation from your sin,
eternal life beyond mortality withGodforever&yes the thought that anyone I know would take the path to destruction gets me bent out of shape&I'll be damned if I just standby& watch it happen without saying a word.Is that miffed enoughfor
Ralph...OK? I rest my case. He's pathetic. He can't understand that it's OK if he "just stands by"~& realizes all human beings have their OWN beliefs, faith & lives. BILLIONS of people in our world ~ONLY HE & his group have THE TRUTH! Tha
Who the hell dubbed U a "messenger?" U R NOT MY damned messenger! U have a delusion UR a MESSENGER?? Get a job with Western Union! U have NO RIGHT to INSULT anyone Bcuz they don't listen to U or don't pour over UR History Book! Shove it Tony!
Wow - Tsad, I've been off line all day. Your attacks remind of of a stalker - I don't respond so you keep posting more and more of them. My religion is none of your F business. Live and let live by each their own standards.
WOW yourself, here's a good Q&A for you, why-do-some-people-get-so-bent-out-of-shape-when-you-ask-what-their-religion-is?
I respect your opinion to defend your chosen faith as much as you want Tsad, but don't expect me to purposely open myself up to unwarranted attacks by you or anyone else. Don't expect me to interact with your commentary though.
I'm prejudiced against man. Since men wrote the bible I question their reasons/motivations. Since their values rose from an opposition to the ruling class, this makes them reactionary, not absolute. A nice attempt at systembuilding it was.
The men who wrote the Bible were men of God, not just men.If you seriously investigate the Bible instead of basing your opinion on your prejudice, you'd come to different conclusions,I guarantee you,because I once thought just as you.
You are the one who brought up the subject of your religion. I totally understand why you might not want to share that but just so you know I had no intention of attacking your religion.I Wish I could say the same of you.
In 1860, Seven clerical scholars published Essays and Reviews, defining the new science of Bible criticism. All were denounced and two were suspended from office, but the two who were suspended from office, took their case to court and won!
The Bible is a conglomeration of ancient manuscripts written in ancient times and which bear witness to that particular time period. Archeology has proven much of this already. To answer your question, the question asked here may be construed as a challenge to prove all of the Bible in a few paragraphs. That is not possible. As Tsad stated, understanding the Bible takes serious study. Where did you get your information from? Was it the Jesus Seminars? I hope not, as they have been debunked.
Any any event, I do know that much of what passes for critical thinking with regard to the Bible is often no more than skepticism masked as intellectualism, so some Christians take offense to the tone rather than the actual question because, to all extent and purposes, the Bible is a book. It is also the most widely read book in the world, and which has had more positive impact on the world than the average citizen even knows about.
What did I state in my question that isn't fact? No doubt it's an inspiring book, but nonetheless it's a book.
There are no experts on the bibleS. They took 1000 years to compose, and the selection of these 30 writings for the OT were selected by humans, not a God? The NT has little bearing to the OT, neither was written at the time of the events.
Who wrote Gensis? Was anyone taking notes in the garden of Eden?
Ralph, as I said, it would take too long to explain all about your conclusions here. If you care to understand why I said that, see this:https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HIwV__gW5v4
Sorry Savvy, just because this Craig Evans made a 20 minute video about his opinion doesn't make it true. If you enjoy being a Christian and think the bible is the best book on earth, then I respect your opinion.
Ralph, Dr. Evans is considered one of the most respected, if not the most renowned scholar of Biblical studies in North America and beyond. But if you prefer to believe lesser "scholars," whose standings are dubious, that is your right.
I'm happy you found an "expert" who supports your opinions to lean on for guidance savvy. His theories sound appealing to Christians.
Thank you, Ralph, But to clarify, I am not leaning, I am learning.
None here can nor should answer skeptic's questions because there isn't space,however a truth seeker has all the resources at his disposal today to conveniently investigate all sides of any question about the Bible.These skeptics haven't
It may be the most widely SOLD book in the world (questionable), but I truly doubt it is the most widely READ book in the world.
Agreed - lots of people own bibles because they have to, yet how many actually read them?
SavvyDating, your answers are both respectful and rational. Don't let the bashers bring you down.
Thank you, promisem. I very much appreciate your kindness and your observations throughout HP.
Ralph, in the Garden of Eden they were naked so had no pocket to carry a Notepad and the Biro had not yet been invented. The Flintstones might have thought of something to write with.
Ralph, there is a man named Louis Farrakhan, If a book is written about Farrakhan a century from now, one would think that Farrakhan was the dominant figure today. The Jews are a chosen people, and only a fraction of what was happening at the time.
Agreed - sanity in an insane conversation
To answer your question directly, I have seen many become upset simply because they want others to believe as they do or believe what they do. Some cannot agree with or understand that many people question the bible or simply see it as a book. Many other people who react badly to this statement have been told for many years or even all of their lives that this book is more than that, and that questioning their religion or the good book is practically evil in and of itself. When this is their experience or mindset, it can be a bit easier to understand that they are taking a simple question as a personal attack.
I'd agree that it does become personal to some people who feel no one has the right to put the bible up against historical and scientific scrutiny.
But misifit they both have the same interest.
As some have expressed here they do not like doctors .but if they can save your life from ending why let it happen.
This is a spitual life saving work We are to help as many as we can. We all face this
Well, I'm a Christian, and I don't get upset by people telling me that the Bible is "just a book". I'm past the point of caring what others think about whether scripture is the inspired Word of God or not - I've made my own determination. I'll add that many of the objections (such as ones you've mentioned in your question RJ) have counter arguments.....but I'll not go there as it would have no impact on you, just as any arguments you raise will have no impact on me. We're all still free to think/believe as we wish, so free will on dude!
Hx,as a Christian,knowing there is a battle going on between Satan & God for the souls of men & women,aren't you burdened to share the truth with unbelievers when the opportunity arises?If the apostles felt like u would there be Christians?
TSAD, I've learned not to work where God's not working. The disciples did this, shaking the dust off their feet when they left a town that rejected the Gospel. When someone says "I'm not interested", I let them be.
Good point& I agree,but the apostles,to find out they are not interested,had to go there & say something,try,they didn't say,Oh u worship Idols?goodbye.Like the parable of the sower,the sower doesn't stop sowing because seed falls on rocks
The first apostles were working at a time that the world hadn't heard the Gospel, so it was new to everyone. Once a person knew, it was up to that person to accept or reject. America has heard the Gospel - so Americans will accept or reject.
Hx - Impressive response. Each person determines their own pathway based on their own understandings.
So you think in U.S. it's more likely here they have heard the gospel &already rejected it so why bother?Interesting,your view is hearts can't be changed?Well even if ur right,that doesn't justify not sowing the seeds evenon infertile grnd
RJ- My perspective is that the Gospel is the truth, and each will respond as they choose; that's what Christians call free will. TSAD- I wait for those the HS leads to ask me a question (genuine, not skeptical in nature), then I can share.
Really interesting discussion. We must all ask ourselves when the right time is to shake the dust from our sandals. And I keep in mind that people change and so the answer may change from both sides. Good stuff to meditate on.
When an entire civilization is destroyed in order to satisfy the Colonialist lust for material things and power, we can understand that the day to shake the dust from our feet was at the very beginning: Oct. 12 ,1492.
RJ I am not in competion with anyone.I was just posting on the question about why the corruption. Nobody made me believe anything and I do not expect anyone to do different then to search and look more into details.
Sorry but no trouble from me.
Christians talk a lot about free will - and yet, the bible basically instructs peeps to hand over free will and serve the state's religious authority. How can such a slight misinterpretation cause so much damage? Literal, unenlightened dorks did this
Misfit while some people may believe something they can still be wrong in how they handle the situation. Two doctors want to save life but one doctor may just practice his proffesion
Different while the other his.
There are doctors of malpractice.
Why am I answering this only to be deleted by two mutual ego massagers?
The Bible contains a variety of 66 books written by approximately 45 different writers over a span of about 1200 years.
And the statue of Liberty is just a bunch of concrete.
OK delete me fella, didn't mean to walk into you little self serving man cave
I don't delete anyone - since you're at the cave, how about a beer? Stay a while and ruffle some feathers if you like.
A good chance to chat and find some mutual understanding. Perhaps some love could cloud the judgment!
Actually the statue of liberty isn't made of concrete. Eiffel was far too sophisticated and brilliant an engineer to use it as a medium. It is made of worked copper over an intricate internal skeleton...
..If you have read the bible and relate it to any "scientific wisdom". You may not see the correlation, but a lot of missing links. However, this doesn't make THE bible just a mere book. This book has been passed over from generations to generations with a POWERFUL spiritual connection.
This book is spiritual, and if you ARE NOT, never expect to understand it. The realities of this book have become SUBSTANCE TO SOME PEOPLE, they have experienced the great promises in the book. It has become tangible to them.
I wonder why people waste their time trying to understand the BIBLE with human wisdom-it doesn't go this way friends.
Before even starting to read the BIBLE, and you perceive it as a 'mere old newspaper'-you have already missed it!
The fundamentals in the BIBLE are true, every WORD. You ONLY need to have a spiritual eye to this.
SOME BEST THEOLOGIANS HAVE MISSED IT!
The book is spiritual, written by MEN, inspired by GOD-this makes it "The word of God". (Don't ask me to prove)
The bible is A SPIRITUAL BOOK. Romans 11 8 states (According, as it is written God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear) unto this day. This is the reason some read only the NT.
Nicely spiritual, when it's mostly used to judge others, based on laws which appertain to ancient cultures, in distant lands; by modern people who think their gard has made them prefects.
A book that 'validates' itself? It's a biased work - anything else written at that time that validates it? No
To answer this question is an example to say that you are just like every man .are you! Would your friends and family say that about you.
And so you write a biography on yourself would you like the attitude that you are just like any other man why bother to read or buy your book I think you would be offended. As I read your question it starts off being negative. And you wonder why people are offended is because others have an understanding that you can not see. Like a painting of an abstract it may look confusing to some viewers but it is Art to a person that understands abstrack art. They would also be aware of the Artist value while some one would throw a piece of Miro Art away. Some one would be rich from reconizing the Artist work.
The bible is greater in comparisome. Because it tells the past , present , future of human history. When many books can only tell you just the history.
Because it is not understood it is disrespected and taken lightly
But there is great proof it does not lie.
If you aren't Christian, it's just a book. It's not art, it's contradictory, duplicative, just a book
Thats your view , that is your opinion, that is your choice to feel that way. But yours is not some one elses experience or choice so to conclude it is more then a book no matter what you say
I am staring on the "Hide extra comments". Why? These Q&A are just for comments, why get bent out of shape? Just marvel at this action. When Christ was crucified, to many people at the cross He was just a man, He healed the sick.
Angel most of the time my comments are directed to others. I have a problem finding comment boxes so I borrow the convenient box.
Your comments are interesting though I do have a hard time understanding them.
Actually since I'm an America - that little thing called free speech allows me to question anything.
RJ right now that is the case for most .but there exist a case of free will also to believe what you want. If you do not not respect that without critism how can some one respect your view with tact .you dont allow it.
I don't need someone else's approval or respect when it comes to what I beleive - why do Christians? Anyone who demands respect for their beliefs must have lots of "holes" in them. Muslims kill people who don't respect their cult
RJ I agree what Muslims may do .but that is not my belief.
And if you speak on HP you want to be heard. So if you do not care about the other guy that speaks .no one has to give you the same courtesy of listening to your comments.
RJ if you know some one is trying to kill you
can they be trusted? After his mission was carried out the rest was to spread the news we have a purchaser who paid the price to take Adams place for us. Now we can live longer then a imperfect lifespan
Where is the great proof that the bible does not lie, K&T? I looked up your cumiforms - there isn't much about them online. How are you so sure that they 'tell the truth' - when even the OT has been proven to be a manipulated mess?
When he helps he can explain the words and meaning of the language.
Many people do not like the spiritual language of christains.They are annoyed. And feel you have a mental problem of speaking to them about it.
The problem is the doctor
The huge problem is that Christians do not all speak the same 'spiritual language'. Despite this, they all insist that their interpretations are right; and that the rest of the world still needs to be enlightened.
Christians shouldn't get upset when people tell them the Bible is just a book. They should understand they're dealing with someone who can't comprehend what is inside of it and ignore them. Do Muslims get upset when people tell them the Koran is just a book? How about telling Jews the Talmud and Tora are just books? Do Hindus get upset if you say the Vedas are just books? Do Buddhists get upset when you call theTipitaka is just a book? To those who view them as just books they are just that. To someone who believes, it is an insult to their faith and belief. I suppose we could take this further and say the U.S. Constitution is just a piece of paper with writing on it, like the Declaration of Independence. The Gettysburg address, Martin Luther King's "I Have A Dream" speech are just words some guys spoke to a bunch of people....right?
Well interesting comment , but if you feel no personal attachment you can feel anothers feelings and say what they feel and why. You are your own individual. That is like saying some says you are a bad person and you should not get upset about it.
A very interesting answer. Truly the written word is not a "just" a book. Writings are more important than that.
That is you can not say what other people feel and why. If I say I have a pain in my foot, can you say you should not because I do not have a pain in my foot.
People have individual experiences of what they feel and think.
K&T I see your point. But are you saying we "should" get upset over it? Maybe we do but "should" we? Seems totally unproductive.
they are all books and the faithful would be upset - why are these selected books any better than Dr Suess? All writing is valuable but it is still just writing
The way the Christian religion is set up (and this applies to pretty much all religions) is it uses mind control techniques to squash people's critical thinking skills and make them more prone to brainwash. In the Christian religion there is a lot of pressure to not question anything (even though they will say there isn't- they are just that brainwashed), not to question God's decisions in the Bible or any other atrocities that are committed against women, children, babies, homosexuals or how it condones slavery etc. and the overall actions of it's characters (Lot had his daughters gang raped in order to spare the angels). I think the threat of hell has a big impact on keeping them locked in oh and the highly subjective "proof" of God's existence. At the same time it is a religion that degrades people's self esteem, it also creates a somewhat narcissistic mindset (many Christians believe that Jesus would have done what he did even if they were the only one to be saved), there is this whole idea that a God who is in control of the entire universe takes time out of his day to intervene in certain people's lives (this is a super ego feeder), and the combination is not only addicting but very damaging to the logical thinking part of the brain, more and more they start to make decisions and personal beliefs based on emotion (because that part of the brain is highly stimulated while the logical part is going into dormancy). They go to church for these emotional "highs" from God, usually during the worship service. Now the worship service puts them in this trance like state and puts them in the alpha brainwaves so they will be more receptive to whatever the message is.
I could go on and on, I was raised in this religion and caught on to its insanity early on. All Fundamental Christians I have ever known are broken, usually dysfunctional human beings with poor social skills and its their religion that keeps them there- and that's because their religion wants them there.
That is the most accurate synopsis of the believer I have ever heard. The key is believing, because belief puts thinking into a cage. The moment you believe something you no longer question it or think about it. If you dont believe you go to hell...
Amen. We are told & taught that we are free-thinking individuals whom God highly values; which gives us a reason to freely-choose to become slaves to the realm without even needing to be concerned about something silly like the truth. Why questio
I like to say I was raised in Christian fundamentalism the way some are raised in poverty, or alcoholism. I congratulate my fellow escapees when we meet, but it is unwise to be unkind to those who are too damaged or invested to rid themselves of it.
Christian hubbers always walk into the trap of these kinds of quiestions probably because those hubbers are well-intentioned, but the effort is futile.
Hoping for the best for everyone who has participated in this Q & A.
How right you are and some know it is a trap.I think when we comment to these questions it is really not for the poster of the question it is for those who can also get a selective view on the subject.
Like a box of Chocolates as forest would say
Christians comment because stuff like this provokes them - intentionally. It makes fun of C's so non-C's can gang up. (C's flip things around in the same way). Unfortunately, this isn't a debate that C's can win - so its really just mean in the end.
Seems odd of you to make this statement after your lengthy comment earlier. If I wanted to be mean, then I'd demand that all Christians immediately start obeying all their own commandments or leave the religion - that'll never happen....
I don't like bullying Q?s. I respond the way I do for both info & balance - I don't always get it right. You find me sticking up for Christians almost as often as you see me attempting to 'set them straight' because I've been where they are now.
No different than trying to force someone to agree with an opinion based on a movie is it? It's a fair question with plenty of data to support it - how's that considered bullying? I'm not trying to force anyone to think or do anything.
No, you're not forcing - you're instigating an argument: Why do Christians get [so bent out of shape] when you [tell them] the bible is [just a book]? You judge them as 'bending out of shape'; TELL them; and your opinion as it being 'just a book'.
No, I'm relating an observation I encountered on several other threads. I've read your inflammatory comments made to anyone who dares criticize your opinion on 50 shades of grey or twilight - don't lecture me
Yeah, right - that is why your description backs up your argument. My 'opinions' about 50 Shades are actually FACTS viewed as opinion by people who refuse to inform themselves - similar to Christians & Atheists who debate with selective knowledge
Your opinions are only your opinions, and only called facts by you and your minions, but it's your choice and I respect the fact that you stand by your convictions - freedom of speech - stand down and we'll end this debate
What?! And let you discount the facts as so many do? No, I know what 'facts' are - and so do you. They are things that can be proven. Facts are only 'opinions' to people until they learn - such as where the bible came from and why it was written.
OK - prove the bible is more than a book. Prove Jesus was divine. Prove God exists. Prove that God inspired the book. Should I continue? You could have walked away, but you chose otherwise....waiting for facts, not rhetoric
You missed my point: it can be proven that the bible is not the infallible 'word of god'; just like (well, maybe not 'just like', ha!) 50 Shades of Grey can be proven to be a remarkable example of rare, professionally-published literary negligence.
I agree Misfit.You did not mis a point in that truth here on hp.
So, which parts of Free Speech, Freedom of the Press, and Freedom do you want silenced? Who anointed you judge and jury over what is literary negligence? Are you jealous of them making money? I'm sorry, but I don't condone censorship
I've never suggested that (tho that is what many peeps hear). Again, FACTS are different than opinions. The world is a dangerous place, not bc of evil, but bc of those who do ZERO about it. Einstein. Now say I'm crazy cuz that never gets old.
But you speak as if what you say is a fact when it's only an opinion. You can be passionate and really believe in something that is just an opinion at the end of the day. Just like the bible is a book - symbolic but still a book
Why do atheist's get all bent when you suggest that they simply ignore God ! let's face it , never before in forums has there been so much attention brought to God , than by those who claim to not believe . to not need faith . To not want God in their [your ] life ? A lot of believers tend to be too tolerant of the critiques , me ,? I say get over God - or get with the faithful!
Very valid point - maybe an atheist can weigh in and share some thoughts on this comment.
Really interesting to ask why an atheist would even care.
This point has been made before - in fact, entire 'questions' have been made about it. Its amazing how these types of back & forth questions keep piling up while everyone acts dumb and continues to ask 'why'?!
But they do care, and they argue with zeal. Your statement is the point - why should anyone feel the need to care what others think about their religion or its icons, in this case a book.
I reckon Catherine, that there ain't nothin really new under the sun. Reminds me of sports -- same old game over and over again.
So Catherine - if this is so old-hat, why did you bother commenting?
Well, it's just not the Christians but people of all religions get worked up when a bad ref is made to their religious books. Christian reaction is relatively mild, but just try it with a Moslem, it may well end in a beheading. One needs to be pragmatic in all this. I know so many Christians but they are not rigid in the Bible. How do you raise this question?
I remember a line from the scifi book "Dark Waters". "Never get between people's Gods or their genes, because both are their route to immortality." And attacks on both are seen as very personal and serious.
Dissecting the many assertions you have made here would require much more time and energy than I currently have available...however, let me simply respond in this way.
If I did believe the Bible to be more than a mere book written by men who simply wanted to express their opinion (By the way you describe it, I suppose the Bible could just as easily be a collection of Hubs!) ...and I do believe its more....and If in that Bible I found hope, peace, love, forgiveness, direction, refuge from life's storms, escape from meaninglessness, deliverance from sins penalty, power and eventual presence, relationship with my creator, an anchor for my soul, love where only hate used to exist, life where death used to reside, indescribable joy, and a Savior who gave His life for me...I suppose it follows and would only make sense that I might find it a bit incredulous that someone like yourself could dismiss it with a simple string of 4 unsubstantiated words (is just a book).
I will give you this Mr. Schwartz...on the canvas of history there are certainly a countless number of questions that arise in regards to the Bible and to it's trustworthiness...questions that have been the angst of many who have come before us...yet, that same canvas of history has left us with blood stained and tear drenched answers...answers that are there and easily within grasp for those who wish to find and consider them.
I will not pretend to know anything about you Mr. Schwartz. What I will do is simply say that you are not the first who has asserted that the Bible is merely a book...and you will most definitely not be the last. Nevertheless, I find great comfort in the fact that the Bible has stood the test of time...
Thanks Schwartz...just keeping it real my friend.
Great thought and understanding, What if the whole world were black and white and not a combination of faith and fact? Perhaps it would not be such a wonderful world.
Imagine you have a beautiful, talented young girl for a daughter, and you think the world of her. In your eyes she is just special.
You overhear someone say that yes, she is pretty, but just an ordinary girl after all!
You will both be right in your views, but I doubt you would relish overhearing that insensitive remark about a child who is so much a part of your heart.
It is the same with Christians who believe in the Bible. You are right, but quite insensitive. Can't you find another way of discussing the Bible? Show respect for their beliefs, and they will probably agree with your view anyway.
This is a very smart and nice answer. You show we can be both and that is a very good thing.
I grew up with the bible and I'm also a historian - a religious text is biased and there's no sensitive way of saying that.
RJ I can not tell you for example what your taste buds are telling you when you bite into a special desert.You can tell people what your experience is why you have a problem with it But you can not tell people who have eaten it is bad. Religion same
Excellent response K&T - thanks for sharing it
It seems to me that I have responded to this a couple times - are you deleting my responses, RS? Some 'beliefs' are beautiful - except when they feel entitled and insist that everyone else is EVIL until when/if we start to believe the same way.
Because it threatens their belief system...Imagine if it was not only just a book but a mythology book...the believers would feel the loss of their security and fear of death....
An interesting observation. And to those of us confident, it makes no difference what someone else calls it.
This question is something my 2 year old would ask me. Asking for an explanation as to why offending someone's belief offends them is a little disturbing.
Because "just" belittles a strongly held belief system in their eyes.
BC just think about you are in your owned paid house .you have a bathroom just for your guest You do not allow guest in your private. bathroom connected to bedroom.
You know why its off limits .should your guests judge you of what's not theirs No
I don't think it's about how historically right the bible is..it's human nature to be defensive or not happy when someone has something negative to say or is judgemental about what you belief in..
True ,words thank you I read comments of many subjects here on HP .I really try to leave most truthful feed back
Results have been interesting some do not know the difference in just a comment to say I took time to hear your words. That is valuble
We don't take the time to hear words? We are reading and responding with our own perspective. Its just that everyone's perspective is apparently set in stone - and unfortunately, most of these questions are written to change minds, not exchange ideas
Misfit I have listen to your many words but you do not exchange with the same fairness you said.
You start your comments with the attitude of if you think a certain way you have the problem.
People can a will stand for their belief not yours
'Fairness' is a perspective. When people insist that the bible is the undeniable word of god when that is obviously not true - and has been proven to not be true, then whose idea of fair is reversed? There is a war going on. I don't care about 'fair'
Misfit you create your own war , no one has to engage becuse you say different. You show no proof just your statements does not prove anything but frustration that people are not bullied by your choiced words
There is not enough room for proofs I wrote a hub. There is a war to keep people deeply divided. All I am saying is do more research because the book you believe in is a proven manipulation. You can only disprove that by learning how it was disproven
In the war of division, you Catherine are marching in the front of the pack - this question was to ask for opinions based on facts - no one has been silenced or forced to convert
Whatever, RS. You shouldn't ask questions like this if you don't want to deal with the debate - and this is not a clean or pleasant one. If you're just going to continue to say 'everyone's beliefs are beautiful in the end' what's the point?
I have been following this question and it finally came down to the fact that I am a Christian and I hear or read people describing the Bible as "just a book". So I tried to gauge my own reaction to that comment. I suppose at first gut reaction I kind of feel it is an attack against my belief. But that is really short lived in and out of my feelings and mindset. Perhaps further discussion may get me a little bent but not just that comment.
It can only be an opinion of someone who looks at it as just a book. Well of course if the Bible does not touch you in some deeper way than just reading the words it is just a book. (a deep thought - when I am not in my office where my Bibles are on a shelf within arm's reach are they just books?)
Well that kind of gets me to my thoughts on the Bible as an object. It kind of holds mystical powers for me. But I must admit so does "The Oxford Guide - Philosophy". What truths and deep thought I can find in these mere books of knowledge and reported histories. I guess I hold a dictionary in some high esteem also, and similarly some versions are better than others to my mind.
Let me digress for a moment. I seem to remember many years ago my elder son defaced a book like children may do. I kind of regret getting a little over angry at him, declaring that the written words in a book are sacrosanct and not to be defiled for instant gratification. I think the book involved was about oceans with great pictures but still too sophisticated for the younger person to quite grasp. To him it was just pictures on a page in "just a book".
I guess my belief that there is no such thing as "just a book" in general kind of guides my thinking here.
Perhaps that line of thought might ring true here on a site made for writers.
I know they are just books and just flags but burning them bothers me greatly. Disparaging any great work of literature, no matter how contrary to our own personal views is wrong in my mind.
do you really think Christians get bent out of shape? why not try to say something like that to a moslem, or you don't think the quoran is equally just a book?
You misunderstand. There are 2 questions on the front page of HP and they are retorts to each other - nothing more. Why do atheists take the bible so literal? Why do Christians get so bent out of shape when you tell them the bible is just a book?
I think the Koran is basically a book - and mostly a copied book from the other so-called holy texts bu8t with added violence, abuses to women, and other vile things in the name of religion..
Translations differ. Words for the same things differ across languages. What's your point. Do you support a football team? If so, seeing that team, knowing how they are doing etc. Means a lot tou you. No doubt. And even rightly so. But to others it's just another team. Perhaps even disliked??? Now. What would You do if You awoke one morning, or even in the night. And stood over You was Great Grandma and Grandad. And they said to you. "hello love, it's time to come home now with us. ..."? Or had some other message that proved to be true?
Why assume Copernicus was right, or even talking about the same thing. The bible does not say the sun revolves around the earth. People made that up of their own choosing. Try not to confuse The bible with religion - like the religious do!
It's secular to question how God treats women. First, consider how you yourself treat women. Could it be something to do with what you might get in return?
The doctor talking in latin is trying his best to say that something is going to happen in his language it was a life saving message that could effect all life.he tried to help you in his language like Katrina many spoke different languages but help
Christians are monolithic in scope as I have endlessly reiterated. Now w/that out of way, there are various factions of Christians from the most progressive to the most fundamentalist. These varied Christians have different, even opposite perspectives of what the bible is to them.
Liberal, nontraditional, enlightened, & progressive Christians see the bible as a book written by men in accordance to the culture, civilization, ethics, mores, & society at the time. They contend that the bible wasn't written in stone, furthermore arguing that the book wasn't written by God. They know that the bible is fallible & is to be taken metaphorically if at all. They won't become contentious when others counter that the bible was written by fallible human beings. They realize such from the beginning.
However conservative, dogmatic, fanatical, fundamentalist, & conservative Christians strongly proclaim that the bible....IS. They staunchly aver that the bible is God's authentic word. They will become quite contention when others present to them that the bible is a fallible book written by men. To such Christians, saying that the bible is just a book is analogous to utter blasphemy. They have been so inculcated with such a religious premise that such has been embedded in them & that to present them w/a counter premise is like talking to a proverbial brick wall. They won't listen because to them, the bible is ALL.
Good points - ie., many Christians do not believe in the literal interpretation of 'Creationism' that fundamentalists insist upon. Why couldn't God use the holy spirit to 'keep his message straight' as well as keep it from becoming tainted by humans?
The Spirit/trinity was created ny mankind. And Im told by an expert in such matters, mis-used by the same.
The reason that Christians become contention when others present to them that bible is a fallible book written by men, is because the bible is a fallible book interpreted by men. So, to some people the bible is ALL.
Angel you said something true that people interpet bibles passages.
Differnt in what it means stays the same. But interpretations veries of understanding. Example money is the root to all evil. No it really say the love of money can be .1Tim 6:10
As a Christian, I think this question is a sweeping stereotypical assumption that serves no real purpose. It insults the intelligence of anyone who has ever had even the slightest scholarly study of the Bible. I say slightest because you can take introductory courses in a college setting without becoming a biblical scholar. Stating the Bible is just a book or that it is a canon compiled by men of the work of several different authors proves nothing. These same basic courses will teach you about alterations to the text.
That said, it is more than.just a book to most Christians because they find spiritual guidance and comfort within the pages whether or not it is taken as literally as you seem to presume every Christian must take it. Perhaps it is your arrogant attitude when asking the question or making the statement that is the true offender?
Why is your answer not chosen as the best? To Christians the bible is a spiritual guidance and comfort. There are some who trust God when all is going well, and forget God in trying times, and others who are the opposite.
Thank you. I just think people are often very presumptuous, Christian or not. And it's often not what is said that is offensive, but how someone says it.Or.The motive for saying it.
1. Your mother is just a bag of meat. (other random comments about your mother that offend you but are factual) 2.Your writing here means little or nothing to anyone. 3. Seeing children dying on the news, in a distance land has no relevance to your life. These are factual statements, but hurtful none the less, because you perceive (?)
I'm not extremely religious, but have some respect. Nobody in their right mind insults someone's mother with facts about them. Simply because some things don't need to be said. Your lack of understanding or empathy would be an indication of a personality disorder. Your lack of respect toward anyone or their beliefs/ feelings would cause any functioning human to become bent out of shape. Further, they are entitled to get bent out of shape, just as you are entitled to express an opinion. Questioning their right to do so, is, in itself, against basic human liberties and contradicts your very point.
In brief, as an answer to your question, I am of the opinion that professional psychiatric therapy may help you to understand empathy, perception, feeling, pride etc. Unless you have come here to simply insult people and not ask a question. In that case I have no answer to your problems.
No one disputes the meaning of the book, however it is simply a bound stack of papers...it's not "living" nor was it written by god. Your rhetoric sounds so troll-like (I need psychiatric help, blah, blah, blah)
It's the truth. If a person doesn't understand why making statements like that is offensive, they are asking for help in understanding basic human emotions and empathy. It is a bound stack of paper and you are a bag of meat.
You ask a question about why people get upset when you offend their beliefs. The answer is, that it's human nature and you don't seem to understand that. You didn't ask if god wrote it. You asked why people get bent out of shape about it.
Well I do not understand latin and it is used in the medical profession to communicate. True if you approach me and start talking in it I would think something was wrong with you.
But if a translator was near by and knew the language he could help .
I would say it's for the same reason people get upset when you tell them their dog is just a dog...because it is important to them. To me a dog is a dog, for others a dog is more than a pet, it is a part of their family. For those who take the Bible seriously telling them it's just a book is undermining their beliefs and no one likes to be disrespected in that way or made to feel that what they believe is silly or substandard.
Not all of them do infact my best friend who is a church going Christian has referred to the Bible on a number of occasions as a collection of stories.
Re: The Above;
The Holy Bible is a book alright. But as one always said, '' Never judge a book by its cover.'' It's what had been written in that book; or the contents of that book, that matter! The Holy Bible is a book which had been written by ordinary men. Men inspired by God. These men were the instruments and the hands of God. No one had ever seen God. But the Christians believe that there is a God; and they deeply believe in Him by the help of the Holy Bible. Here again ! It's not the song which is beautiful, it's the person who sings it that makes it beautiful. Once again, we come to the idea of decision-making. Man is a free agent. But with that freedom comes the burden of choice. Which means, that man is free to accept the word of God or rejecting it. He is not in any obligation to believe in anything, if he doesn't want to. The choice is his. He is free to accept the Bible or refuses to believe in it. But don't forget though! man has only one chance and that chance is in this world and not in the world to come. So, use it wisely! Thank you!
How wonderful ! Your comment gets right to the point , I appreciate how you explain the free will to believe as you wish but on limited time .satan is trying to steal all humans opportunity to live under a different New world free of problems
Hi! Satan wants us to believe, that what is wrong is right and what is right is wrong. But we know better! Because our Faith is the Power of God.
Christians believe that the Bible is the living Word of God. It is part of the belief system. Also, the Bible cannot be "just a book," when if you follow it you are following some damn good advice, to say the least. Also, it is historical. In terms of art, many parts of the Bible are very beautiful, particularly the Psalms.
Ralph, I am a Christian and I did not and will not get bent out of shape if you call my Bible "just a book" because the Bible would not mean anything to someone who does not believe in the word of God.
As the saying goes "If you don't believe no explanation is possible, but if you believe no explanation is necessary."
There are no unbelievers in hell, too bad they believe to late.
because they do not understand that it is not scripture (but then if it were it is still only a book) they are wrongly taught that their bible is scripture, they do not know that it is just some man's interpretation -translation of scripture that also included the translators beliefs, many which are contrary to scripture. They have developed a clouded religious mentality (because they have received a religious spirit)because they believe what apostate men teach without having allowed the Holy Spirit to show them truth instead.
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