Christians do really think we atheist have no morals?

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   peeplesposted 13 years ago

   Or that we are somehow bad people because we don't believe in what you believe in? I see so many times when people make it out to be that Christians dislike everything about us atheist yet I am married to a Christian and he has no ill feelings toward atheist. Is the thought that Christians dislike atheist in general a myth?

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      Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Christians Love, I mean "Dearly" LOVE atheists in comparison to other christians which have different views than their own.
      
        From a Pretorists/Historists perspective.
        It would be better for that man that he been born a Muslam .

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         Disappearingheadposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         

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      aka-djposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I have no problem "liking" atheists.
      
      I have issues with militant, ignorant fools pretending they (also) know it all, and ridicule anyone with faith. Most of these (kind) don't know how to carry a civil conversation, NOR respect believers for their (reason) for faith.

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         peeplesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Curiosity here, Do you show the same respect to atheist (ones who respect your faith) as you think they should show you?

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            aka-djposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            They are always the ones to draw "first blood".

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               Jesus was a hippyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               "Your evolution theories and their explanations are for dummies"
               
               "Only people with limited thought capacity can swallow evolution as presented to the masses.
               
               The joke is on your beliefs in "scientific fairy tales"."
               
               A quote of yourself from your posts on my hub.
               
               Hmmmm

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                  aka-djposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  Except you forgot that we have had quite a few interactions on the forums long before that.
                  
                  BTW, I'm still following you. You can't complain too much.
                  
                  
                  When have I not been civil to you, before you started you ridicule?

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                     Jesus was a hippyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     You may have to remind me of the ridicule but the exerts I posted were from your first post on my hub so I didn't even have a chance to ridicule you first or "draw first blood".

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                        Mark Knowlesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        AKA is the first on the offensive, despite claiming to turn the other cheek. He has no morals to guide him - this is why his religion causes so many fights.

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                           aka-djposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                           And so it starts, yet again!

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                              Mark Knowlesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                              See how it was you that started it - again? I did not just start it - I responded to you.
                              
                              This is why your religion causes so many fights.
                              
                              Like Jesus told you to do.

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                                 aka-djposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                 I was answering the OP.
                                 
                                 I am not at all surprised you took it personally.
                                 
                                 I have told you to your face ( a long time ago) I consider certain atheists position to be "ignorant and arrogant".
                                 
                                 As for fools, well, you know what the Bible says. No need for me to say anything here.

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                                    Mark Knowlesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                    Yes - I know. This is why your religion causes so many fights. You say the bible says I am a fool, and I am the one starting the fight?
                                    
                                    No moral guidance - that is your problem.

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                                       aka-djposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                       I have no religion. I don't fight.
                                       
                                       You seem to relish the idea, since you talk about it so much.
                                       Must be the Colonialist ancestry that wants to dominate others by force, rearing it's ugly head.
                                       I don't know!
                                       
                                       Those Brits of old oppressed many native and minority nations.

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                                          Mark Knowlesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                          Dear me. You just finished telling me the bible says I am a fool and you think my not believing garbage is ignorant and arrogant. Now you tell me you don't have religion and don't fight?
                                          
                                          No wonder your religion causes so many fights.
                                          
                                          I imagine I would be in all sorts of trouble if you didn't like me and love me. Crikey!

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                                             aka-djposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                             ".  .  .   not believing garbage is ignorant and arrogant."
                                             
                                             See, and you wonder why we can't communicate??
                                             
                                             Not believing garbage is not what makes one ignorant and arrogant.
                                             
                                             Making your outlandish assertion that there IS NO GOD, is what qualifies you for that.
                                             I did notice that you have toned that down lately. Perhaps there is hope for you yet.
                                             
                                             
                                             But, please, keep bringing the fight to the religion forum.
                                             Strange place to be, for an atheist.

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                                                Mark Knowlesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                                Like I said AKA - all starts with you. I did not realize I had toned it down, I will ramp it up to your level ASAP in that case.
                                                
                                                This is why you religion causes so many fights.
                                                
                                                Odd really - I thought Christianity was supposed to be all about peace and turning the other cheek. None of that nonsense for you huh?  Once again - thank you for proving there is no god and that Christianity is nonsense.
                                                
                                                Why are you so angry that others do not believe your nonsense?

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                           Paul Wingertposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                           "turning the other cheek" can be taken in a couple of ways. If you literally turn the other cheek if someone wrongs you, you become easy prey and people will continue to take advantage of you. "Turning the other cheek" can also mean if you are slapped (during Jesus' day, slaves were corrected by being slapped on the cheek, but by offering the other cheek, you are suggesting equality. It made sense 2000+ years ago. Now ddays, if you slap someone, you'd either get your ass beat or sued.

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                        aka-djposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        Why limit it to just your hub?
                        
                        Does that reinforce you position?

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                        Captain Redbeardposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        All this talk of drawing first blood has made me listen to Bon jovi

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               peeplesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               "Not believing garbage is not what makes one ignorant and arrogant.
               
               Making your outlandish assertion that there IS NO GOD, is what qualifies you for that."
               Doesn't ever atheist say therer is no God? So are you saying we are all ignorant and arrogant by saying it?

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         Castlepalomaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         aka-dj
         
         What group would be so militant, ignorant fools pretending they (also) know it all, and ridicule anyone with faith?

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            aka-djposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            As you know, we can't name names, due to "personal attack" clauses.
            
            I recon you know at least a few of them, though!

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               Castlepalomaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               If wouldn't hang out with any ignorant fools, I would not claim to know any know it all's, like god or Gods. Militant sounds too Religious for me, would not belong to any group in the first place, in order to create an army of fools.
               
               I have more faith in Mankind than most people and think everyone is a God. Is that not more of a balance than a Jealously God, that fights 10,000 other kinds of God, along with Jews, Gays and the lists goes on.
               
               Even Atheist do not get a break, in the USA Courts they claim Atheist a Religion and against their will, too.
               
               Sorry, don't know militant guys, ignorant fools, know it alls and faith pranksters, Do you know a few?

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         Mark Knowlesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         You think backhandedly calling people ignorant fools demands respect?
         
         Just as a matter of interest - why do you think atheists should respect you? You have no morals, are aggressive and nasty; constantly berate those of us who reason instead of believing blindly and generally don't do the things you claim to be doing.
         
         And you want respect?
         
         Why?

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            aka-djposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            This also applies to you.
            
            I told you many times that I like you.

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               Castlepalomaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               I like you too Mark, just not in an ugly marriage way.

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                  Mark Knowlesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  Yup - these guys are like an abusive spouse.

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         glmclendonposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         I agree with you. I have nothing against them, T wonder if they have that rope , or fith to hold them in time of trouble. They try to tell me things about God all bab, but I don't try to tell them what they need to do, because they know the answers.

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         Healthy Pursuitsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         I just wandered into this thread, because I was curious about what the responses would be. I've know both Christians and atheists who are so nasty and rabid in their responses that I've wondered if their parents taught them anything at all about how to deal with other people.
         
         I consider both of those extreme responses to be, well, extreme - and to not represent the majority of people who believe as they do.
         
         I don't think the world would be a better place with less of any belief, except the belief that you should show disrespect towards anyone who doesn't believe as you do.

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      Chris Nealposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      No, I don't think that at all. In fact, some of the nicest people I've ever met are atheists, and some of the nastiest people I've met have been atheists. Some Christians I've known personally give the cause a bad name. It would be so much simpler one way or the other if Christianity really made everyone nice and humble (as so many Christians want to believe) or conversely judgemental and hypocritical (as many of the atheists in these forums assert.) But Christianity doesn't perform a personality transplant, God want us to work on that and lean on Him.
      
      People are perfectly capable of being nice without religion. Or "good" or "pure."

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      jacharlessposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      In general, I do not think theists have ill-will toward anti-, non- or a-theists. Consensus among most theists is actually a sense of pity -or perhaps, to some extent, loathing which sometimes results in hostility {inert frustration brought about by the doctrine gleaning}.
      
      The Religion of Self {morality without doctrine aka atheism} comes from the rootstock of one or more major religions, whether by full involvement, patronization/passive-direct or indoctrination techniques {wooing, fear, social acceptance, aspiration}.
      
      Because of rapid social changes, and strong influence of the Religion of Logic {predominantly the sciences} there is deeper cause for division. A division, I think, is coming from the a-theist perspective, more so than the theist, as noted by many saying, "If you would just give up this irrational nonsense and be rational, we would all get along, end the rivalry, the violence. And as an individual-collective, change the course of human history. Yes, let us rely only on our own thinking, our own skills, instead of an invisible power. Let's use the fragments of nature, offered as gifts on the Alter of Discovery, for everyone to see. Let's define those fragments as fact and proof that no such higher beings exist, laying the foundation for the future and our children's future."
      
      Sadly, their cry is littered deeply with sensationalism. As said, they are from the same stem. But, in the end, both sides are after the same thing: answers or absolution. Sure, there is often a verbal tennis match {entertainment really}, but on the street, in the trenches of life, both will stand side by side, regardless.
      
      James.

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      Paul Wingertposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      You know how most Christians (not all) are with their "I like lobster so you must like it too" attitude. I have two cousins who are born again Christians and they get their jollies by pushing their beliefs on everyone else.

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      Robert Vroomposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      The correct argument from the Christian perspective is not that "atheists have no morals", the argument is that if atheism is correct objective moral values do not exist.
      
      If atheism is correct, life came to exist from non-life through accidental collisions of non-living materials. Through the process described in the theory of evolution, this life thrived and split into different living beings, based on beneficial mutations.
      
      If this is how things took place, morality is nothing but an evolutionary development. Why is it evil to murder people for fun? The only reason given atheism is that people who murder others for fun are less likely to pass their genes to the next generation. Can we in America say that honor killings in India, or the treatment of women in a number of Muslim countries is wrong? If so, by what standard? We do the behaviors that provided survival value here, they do the same in their countries. Since there is no morality that transcends societies, we cannot say they are wrong.

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         Chris Nealposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         If I understand evolutionary theory correctly you are correct. But I have talked to atheists who hold that there is some kind of objective standard of human decency that exists outside of Christianity but has many of the same good points. I don't judge it, and I don't pretend to fully understand it because it's usually only something I read when I claim the objective standard of the Bible. So if anyone reads this and can explain it to me better, I'm all ears. If you're going to say I'm ignorant, I beat you to the punch.
         
         Well written post, by the way.

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      speaseposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      If your husband is really a Christian, he would not have ill feelings toward you or any atheist .  A real Christian does not want atheists to change their ways because they don't agree with them, a real Christian wants to change atheists so they don't spend eternity in hell.  Your husband should want to save you from hell because he loves you.

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         mischeviousmeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         You're serious, aren't you? If they don't think like a christian, scare 'em into it with an unlikely tale. Hell only works on children and morons or the blatantly insecure.

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            speaseposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Not trying to scare anyone.  If you were walking down the street and you saw a child drowning in a swimming pool, wouldn't you try to save them.  I believe that atheists are going to hell and I will try to save them, but it's their choice.

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               mischeviousmeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Yeah, but I wouldn't indoctrinate the poor child. That's the problem with christians, they want people to mentally feeble and insecure, that they won't think about how stupid it sounds. How many people that are confident, rich or intelligent are christians? A lot less than the poor, weak, sick and insecure...

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               Mark Knowlesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Well–in that case, I'm sure you understand the fact that as an atheist with morals, I feel it is my duty to tell you you are wasting your time believing nonsensical drivel and warning people of something that doesn't not exist.
               
               All it does is causes ill will and bad feelings. Your invisible super being does not exist and I really hate to see you wasting your life in this fashion.
               
               I'm sure you understand. It is for your own good because I know better than you. You are just too  arrogant to understand, and insist on rebelling against reality.

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                  mischeviousmeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  It's more an attempt to escape suffering, the same bait and tackle Sidartha Gautama used, only christianity goes beyond the simple suggestion and uses scare tactics to procure a following.

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            Chris Nealposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Or on people who truly know God and love Him!

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               mischeviousmeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Or fear being human... Can't think for yourself, have to have a parent figure to behave?

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                  Castlepalomaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  Or fear of being a spiritual being rather than being on a one-sided group

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                     Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     Fear of being a spiritual being? No, I'm not that irrational.

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                        Castlepalomaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        Is this an attack or do you lack understanding of what you are saying
                        
                        Irrational - without the faculty of reason ; deprived of reason. 2. without or deprived of normal mental clarity or sound judgment. 3. not in accordance with reason; utterly ...
                        
                        You know I define spiritual as the 99% unknowns, you are taking from your 1% ego self and calling others irrational too often. I base my life on good sense, and find everything has a reason within time and the only thing I can find that lacks reason to a great degree, is evil.
                        
                        Spiritual is as important as your intellect, relationships, finance and body. If you ever want to compare my lifetime achievement, and balance compared to yours then, I accept the challenge

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                           Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                           I'm pretty sure I know what I said.
                           Yes, I know what the word means, but I'm also glad to know you had to look it up.
                           I know what your definition of spiritual is. And I understand that there's a lot of things unknown, but that doesn't dismiss your irrationality.
                           I can see why you're lost.
                           So you say. However, untrue.
                           I'm sure you would. I don't need the ego boost as you do. But, thank you for the offer.

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                              Castlepalomaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                              You must have a reasonable definitions of what Spiritual is, or your ego would be too grand for our tiny minds to grasp. When most people on earth are spiritual sided or ancient spiritual sided, then you must have an explanation why their Spiritual ways are so irrational too? I know most Atheist do like the word spiritual.

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                                 Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                 So, now you resort to putting yourself down. WOW!
                                 
                                 I have no need to define "spiritual". It is already defined. I have no worry about how it's defined either. Spiritual isn't real because it doesn't exist within reality. It only exists in the minds of those who bother to think about it.
                                 
                                 The poor aspect about it is that spirituality is closely tied to Mysticism, which is dishonest. No further explanation is required.
                                 Why would I have to explain someone else's ignorance? That's absurd.
                                 That's nice. I'm not an Atheist or did you fail to grasp that when I said it the first time.

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                                    Castlepalomaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                    You don't have your own spiritual definition yet you put down other people view of what Spiritual is.
                                    
                                    We are what we think, with our thoughts we make the world yet love goes deeper then anything. I like thinking big with action and love myself most, then 50% goes to everybody else. Where do I put myself down? Your Positive Thinking about me or spiritual sided people are about as lame as atheist and about the same proof of lack of great men strung together throughout human History.
                                    
                                    Your own ego reality consist of 1% max of our knowledge of the world or Universe yet you claim Mysticism is close to the same as spiritual unknowns as both are reflect ignorance. Maybe you feel you can't change," you stay stuck. We would accomplish many more things if we did not think of them as impossible. At least I won't allow myself to be influenced by negative or limited thinkers.
                                    
                                    From a scale of 0 to 10 that God dose not exist, Richard Dawkins being a 9, where do you rate?
                                    Funny Dawkins is the champion of Atheist, while claiming he is deeply religious, entertain me or be lame.

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                                       Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                       That's because only the gullible make up definitions to suit their needs, or shall I say petty sentiment.
                                       Oh, and I suppose you think LOVE is spiritual? It's an emotion.
                                       Good for you.
                                       If I have to explain it, then you're worse off than expected.
                                       And willful ignorance to reality is no more than stupidity in motion.
                                       Actually, what you just said is a lie. My ego reality is fairly non-existent. I recognize my ego when it makes a decision because I let it make that decision. And, my ego doesn't drive many of my decision making. My conscience does. Apparently, you've not enough knowledge and lack a whole lot of wisdom to not be able to recognize the difference in other people. So, it's you who is doing the reflection and misguiding of others.
                                       
                                       I am sorry you don't like being told the truth about things. I cannot help you cannot stand up to reality.
                                       Dude, you're so closed minded or narrow minded, to speak to my ability to change. My life changes everyday and I change with it.
                                       Only the gullible don't know what is possible and what is not possible, with regards to certain topics.
                                       Of course you wouldn't. You're already part of it the group of limited thinkers.
                                       There's no need to even think about it. It has no real baring on living life or understanding one's own life.
                                       Apparently, I don't need to entertain you. You're entertained by Atheist- Richard Dawkins. Why would I bother to try to entertain you? Holding a conversation with you is barely comprehensible as it is.

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                                       Castlepalomaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                       What ever works and I know what works for me and these detail add up to big importance, petty sentiment to you because you do not care.
                                       
                                       Love is many things, including emotion, if love is an emotional and the be all, to bad for that kind of limited thinking. I keep getting better and be careful on how you use the word stupid, ignorance and what reality is so many times. If you really think your knowledge is greater than 1% and greater than the rest of us. Good luck with that, you don't care much about other peoples forms of facts or other degrees of truths then.
                                       
                                       I have enough knowledge spirit and imagination to create a few new industries and to be world class in a few area greater than you, unless you can prove otherwise. If all my natural made products are reflection of me misguiding of others, then show me where these products or services are  harm or dishonest for it where I spend most of my waking hours in loving what I do? I am a true warrior yet not of the killing or violent kind and match you or go beyond in manifest production to service millions of other.  have living proof that stands up to any reality test you put to it. You have no proof of me being closed minded or narrow minded, You don't tell me how you are changing but of course you don't need my approval. You say I'm already part of it the group of limited thinkers yet no proof again, just empty words with more negative thinking. I tried any test you wanted me to try met every question you asked and still you hide you spiritual side in a closet and won't put it to my test.
                                       Big with words and Lame in action, get more angry and unreasonable with more people for all I care.

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                                          Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                          

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                  Chris Nealposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  Or who know Jesus! Believe it or not, being a Christian is not synonymous with not wanting to think. And, at least in these forums, for every Christian I've seen who seems to feel they must argue and denigrate anybody who disagrees with them, there is also a nonbeliever who acts just the same. Sort of like someone who feels the need to answer everything I say to them with an accusation that Christians are unwilling and incapable of thinking for themselves...

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         peeplesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         My husband believes my sin is no different than his sin. Everyone does things that are considered wrong. In his view God makes exceptions for people like me who had a "real reason" (His wording not mine) not to believe. My husband believes those people will be given an oppurtunity to accept after death. This view isn't exactly Christian but the rest of his views are. This one view shows a love for other people and a respect that for some people there is no getting them to believe given the life they have had. He wishes I believed but as a good husband he accepts that it is not his job as my husband to force me to be something I don't want to be.

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            speaseposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            You're husband is right in that sin is sin, and we all sin.  To have our sins forgiven we must be sorry for our sins.  You may have had some terrible things happen in your life, that is all the more reason to have God in your life, it's certainly not a reason to not believe.
            
            You can't be kind of a Christian, and there is no second chance after death. If your husband is a Christian, he believes the Bible is Gods word.  You can't believe some parts of it, it's all the word of God. 
            
            No one can force you to believe and repent, but if he is a Christian and he loves you, he should not want you to not be saved. 
            I care about you and I want you to not follow Jesus. Look at needgod.com.

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               mischeviousmeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               How about not dwelling in one's past or being mindful? One must be mindful of how they affect reality, the same would have to be applied to what they percieve. A person may grow angry with something but then, was it not that person's choice to react? There is no devil inside greater than "I". There is no God/god in myself greater than "I". "I" is the most powerful motivating factor and it seems to be a commomn thing, among species with somewhat developed brains. People say it all the time, almost all sentences start with it and it's peppered throughout almost every paragragh. "I" is a powerful concept, that many use to their advantage.

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   knolyourselfposted 13 years ago

   Personally I like everybody, but my mind has no truck for either materialists or Religionists, same thing really.

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   Jeramiposted 13 years ago

   A heretic should NEVER ... never never; accept any invitation to a back yard weenie roast, not even if marshmallows are insinuated.

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   cprice75posted 13 years ago

   I am a Christian, and I have agnostic/atheist friends.  We have civil discussions.  I don't think that they are necessarily immoral.  They actually follow a moral code.  On the other hand, I know some "Christians" that are quite immoral.  My big question is what constitutes morals if there is no God?  It seems as though they would just be social constructs, so there is no real reason to follow any moral code if you can get ahead without having society put you in the clink.  I don't dislike much of anybody, even if I disagree with them on any number of things.

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      Paul Wingertposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      

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         peeplesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         LOL!

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         Castlepalomaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         I know that crazed glazed look.

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         LauraGTposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Love it!  I grew up in the South and repeatedly got the question about where I got my morals from.  I really don't see any connection between someone being  moral person and their belief in god. I think more of it has to do with parenting.  Some parents use religion as  a vehicle through which to talk about morals, others just use their own self-imposed moral structure (which, in our society, is probably about the same thing whether or not you believe in god!)

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            Chris Nealposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            I think that's wonderful.
            
            In a way though, you make the argument. The argument is that evolution produces no morality in and of itself. If we're all just products of evolution, then there is no inherent mechanism within us to make us 'good' and there is no objective source for right and wrong. American society still uses a sense of right and wrong that is for the most part a holdover of our Christian heritage. But if there is no objective right and wrong other than what society dictates,  then if, say, in 100 years sexual slavery is instituted in places as legal, or honor killings, or enforced 75-foot bungee jumps on your 18th birthday, then whatever we may think of them now we can't judge them or say they're wrong because society, the greatest number of people, will say tough, we think it's okay. Not that I think those things will happen, I'm just using examples.

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   glendoncabaposted 13 years ago

   The title of the thread is wrong.  Morality is about the good way, whereas ethics discusses the standard.  So your question should be:  Do you think Christians have no regard for moral ethics of atheists?
   
   For it is a reality that we can arrive at ethical standards without religion, but an ethical system which derives authority from overarching religious principles will have the highest standard of all since the final appeal is not to ego or comparative ethics but the ethics of holiness and love.

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   Motown2Chitownposted 13 years ago

   I can only speak for myself, but I know other Christians who believe this way also.  Atheists/Agnostics are people, just like we are.  We all live our lives according to some sort of moral code, even though we may differ about the origin of that code.  Most of the atheists/agnostics I know are some of the most intelligent folks I've ever had the joy of encountering, and ultimately what draws me to a person isn't their religious beliefs, rather it's their personality, their ability (and willingness) to engage in interesting and challenging conversation, and whether or not we actually just like each other. My faith is something that is very important to me, but the core teaching of my faith is to love others unconditionally.
   
   Occasionally, you'll run across kind, rational Christians and kind, rational atheists who generally agree on life in general.  Occasionally, they might disagree on certain things.  Decent people know how to disagree without being disagreeable...most of the time.  Sometimes, though, certain folks just don't bring out the best in others.
   
   

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   daisynicolasposted 13 years ago

   My passionate belief and rationalizing was written in my hub about the war of morality and religion.  I know I have succintly passionately stated my life's viewpoint on this issue.  This is a subject that will never go away because it is an inherently inherited value.

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   BrianMI6posted 13 years ago

   Christians dislike atheists because they are the Baal worshipers of our day.  Atheists are highly religious people.  They believe in the supernatural all over the place and then try to deny that they do.  It's like having someone insist that they never eat cake while you are watching them eat cake in front of you.  Then, when they presumptuously have taken the scientific high ground (while everything they believe rests on assumptions that can only have occurred via supernatural causes) they characterize us as evil. 
   
   This type of behavior is infuriating in general but what is really upsetting is that Christians pretty much believe that while people follow God's general principles, the nation will enjoy blessing.  When they abandon God's principles, the nation will be struck down.  Atheists push for everything evil and then try to make it seem nice.  Instead of using the term Child Sacrifice they call it abortion.  They are generally for things like homosexual marriage when Christians know that there is no such thing!  God designed marriage.  It is defined by him and gay people who have weddings and run around claiming to be married are just people who are playing house.  God doesn't recognize their "marriage" and is in fact infuriated by their sin yet atheists are happy to see the nation go to hell in a handbasket. 
   
   If you saw that the pattern of living espoused by a group that supports everything that you're against, things which you feel will one day have your children or grandchildren dispossessed of their heritage or, at the very least, doom the nation to social misery, you'd not be feeling very kindly toward them either.

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   Cagsilposted 13 years ago

   Maybe I'm just stupid or it could be one of those times where I am a little dense.
   
   But, what does Evolution to do with morals?

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      Chris Nealposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      The short answer, depends on who you talk to.
      
      ba-dum-DUM.
      
      In all seriousness, though, is that there is an entire conversation about "morals" in respect to evolution. Are we born moral? Can any objective standard of morality be imputed from evolutionary theory? Why are some people nice? And a thousand other questions. If my memory servces me, Dawkins actually rose to prominence based on his book The Selfish Gene which discussed such things.
      
      As I posted earlier, many atheists (at least that I talk to in these forums) claim that there is an objective moral standard not reliant on the Bible, which seems to contradict evolutionary theory as I understand it. Of course, the other extreme is the "nature red in tooth and claw" as espoused in Nazi ideology.
      
      I guess the short answer really is, are there objective standards or morality or not? And evolutionary theory says, "no."

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         Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         The only thing you can apply morals to are actions.

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            Chris Nealposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Which may or may not make you one of the atheists I was refering to.

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               Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Duh? Atheist? Seriously?
               
               What in the world ever gave you the idea of classifying me in the category of Atheist?
               
               Atheist are no better than Christians. These two types go back and forth, back and forth, all for what exactly?
               
               Both are ignorant to a degree. I'm inclined to think that Atheist are more rational than Christians, but with Atheism representing a lesser portion of citizens of the world, it would also show and indicate that those who are not rational are causing most of the problems.

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                  Castlepalomaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  So, God dose exist, or a good maybe, setting aside Religion

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                     Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     What are you talking about?

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                        Castlepalomaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        I'm not doing another thread on the mysteries of Cagsil, it hard enough trying to figure out who God is. Too much happy A*S- BS out there.

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                           Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                           That's your problem. You're looking for a "who", where there's no "who" to look for.

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                              Castlepalomaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                              It's not my problem. it the super naturalist groups problem. I think everyone is God, problem solved, it sooo simply.

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                  Chris Nealposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  Well, if you really want to know....
                  
                  What made me think you are an atheist is the fact that you laugh at anything Christian I say (and others, from what I've seen) while never declaring any belief of your own.
                  
                  You never say things like, 'based on the book of...' or 'So and so said...', you just make fun.
                  
                  So, if there's any religious faith you actually have, no matter what it may be, you keep it well hidden.

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                     Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     And why on Earth would I need to declare my beliefs. They are none of your business. As I have said before and will gladly repeat myself, I hold very few beliefs in actuality/reality.
                     
                     Unless you want to count my belief in other people. In that case, then you would find that I believe in 7 Billion people. Other than that sort of belief, I hold very few others.
                     Make fun? Is that what your perception is showing you? Apparently, you don't read to well. Maybe you should brush up.
                     There's no such "religious faith" in my mind, brain or body, therefore nothing is hidden.

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                        Chris Nealposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                        Ah! Now I understand! You come to these forums to observe but not to contribute. You come to laugh but then deny you mock. You deride the beliefs of others but contribute nothing about your own beliefs.
                        
                        You're a leach.

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                           Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                           Not to contribute? Members of HubPages can use the forums as part of membership. So, that means, when I post something I am contributing to the forums. Got it? Or would you like me to spell it out for you?
                           Laughter is not mockery.
                           My beliefs are not for others to know. I am of the understanding that it is completely, utterly, ridiculous, ignorant, dumbfounded to solidify any belief. To do so, negates human nature and one's ability to learn, grow in knowledge and discern truth from true wisdom.
                           Name calling? How profound of you, a walker with Jesus. You're no better than the rest of the religious folk who haunt the forums.
                           
                           Every post you make, you make because you have no choice but to defend a position which is weakened and riddled with irrationality. Which is something I do something about. If you don't like it, you know where you can go, right?

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                              Chris Nealposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                              You're right that I shouldn't have called you a name. I'm sorry for that.
                              
                              You should not have stooped as low, either, but  that doesn't excuse me.
                              
                              If you ever really want to debate, I'm always here. I'm certainly not irrational.

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                                 Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                                 No need for an apology. I was just pointing it out and was no offended. I don't get offended when people call me names. It's been happening ALL of my life.
                                 Stooped as low? Where did I call someone an offensive name?
                                 Debate? Discuss sure. Debate is meaningless.
                                 Really? Deceiving yourself are you and not even realizing it. Good for you.

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                                    Chris Nealposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                                    Okay, if you want to discuss, let's discuss.
                                    
                                    "Self decieving" "irrational" and you've certainly called me worse.
                                    
                                    If you want to educate me, then do so. Combativeness and abrasiveness don't win argument, debates or discussion. I should know.

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         peeplesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Elephants show morals. So I have to say, that pretty much says at least one thing. They don't have to come from a book.

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            Castlepalomaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            I will remembered that, so what is the whole purpose of the bible, again?

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               mischeviousmeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Outdated perceptions of a confusing reality.

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            Chris Nealposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Yes, elephants have instincts. Humans don't, at least not to  the same extent. So what's your point?

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               Castlepalomaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               People are generally good and know what is right from wrong, We do not NEED extra absurd laws from the Bible or any of the over ego wars from all other med evil religious groups

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                  Chris Nealposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  I disagree with that. I think most people have a few inate notions of love, but truly "good" and "evil" are not internal but learned from external sources. So the question then becomes what external source is used? It's more than a little simplistic to think that only one source would be used, because most people get their ideas (or reject ideas received from) society, their parents, their peers, the media, school, etc.
                  
                  But the only people who have a truly internal source of morality uninformed by external sources are sociopaths.

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                     Castlepalomaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     Chris Neal
                     
                     Love is the glue that holds the World together and for sure the Christians are not the only source.
                     
                     Where you find a lack of sound  reason you will find evil , you will find evil where there is a great lack of connection to the sources of good intention. Boil down a problem, simplified, simplifed and simplifed , I know by experience, for my own life is sooo simply and easy. Why try to change the world , the World will change it's self. It's better to change your self FIRST. Then Poof !!! it's magic!  much of the World changes with you.
                     
                     But the only people who have a truly internal source of morality uninformed by external sources are sociopaths.

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                        Chris Nealposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                        I'm glad we agree on one thing!
                        
                        Two actually, because Christians are not the source of love. If we are really being Christian, we are channeling the love from the true source of love, which is God. But we are not in and of ourselves the source of love.

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    PCrewsposted 13 years ago

    I do believe the thought that Christians dislike atheist is a myth. I believe it is not that Christians do not like you but that are sad at the fact that you do not believe in a God of love, grace, mercy and best of all forgiveness. I do believe that the "Christians"  that are mean and do not like you just because you are atheist are wrong for judging you. God loves you wheather you believe in him or not and a true Christian will show Christ love and kindness to you. As far as having morals, I believe it is how you are raised. I know "christians" that have no morals so do not feel that it is just atheist. I hope this helps answer your questions.

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       Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       

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          Castlepalomaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          I have to laugh at one too, lol lol

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    SpanStarposted 13 years ago

    PCrews,
    
      I'm impressed with your explanations, nice job.

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       Castlepalomaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       Would PCrews represent God and his judgment?
       PCrews quote - I believe it is not that Christians do not like you but that are sad at the fact that you do not believe in a God of love, grace, mercy and best of all forgiveness.
       
       Castle - Is it a fact that atheist do not processed the same quality of love, grace, mercy or forgiveness without the belief of God?  If so, my atheist Mother has been a liar her whole life and fooled me into thinking she loved me deeply my whole life. Sorry Mom your going to hell for that......not

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          Druid Dudeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          I don't perceive atheists to be immoral, just in denial of where the moral codes that form our society came from. Any atheist could have a epiphanal moment which could change them into a believer (not necessarily a christian) Most christians would see me as being a pawn of satan, so they see me in the same light as the atheists. Arguing or ridiculing them makes no sense, because it only makes them believe all the more, that you are of "The Dark Side"!

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             Castlepalomaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

             Much of human history did need religion to guild them through law and order. Today's modern man listens to every Religion and culture group and individual, and no matter what group or individual it is, over all, each group is no better or worst than the other. Dark and light is the same like front and back, and up and down and so on. Each of us general are good and know what is right from wrong in our society consciousnesses of it. That is why atheist are as moral or ethical as Christian,
             
             My wish is to allow everyone to be God for one week and see if it changes history for the better, by my calculation it will, or we can always go to back to fighting forever

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    mrmattybposted 13 years ago

    faith is the death of intelligence

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       Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       I would disagree. However, I will agree if you're talking about religious faith.
       
       Having faith in yourself and other people isn't death of intelligence. It actually gives life to intelligence.

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       Castlepalomaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       mrmattyb
       
       Welcome to the forum
       
       An atheist would be more religious than me, in fact the USA declare Atheist a religion. You could not be referring to me of being a part of a religious group , I need to belong to some group first, in which I don't,
       
       I do subscribe to the optimist club where people are spiritual sided rather than religious. I have faith that Cagsil will learn more about that in time.

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          Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          And you had to bring me into your conversation with another person, why exactly?
          
          I swear, you don't even pay attention to your own actions, much less be of any usefulness with regards to other people.
          
          WOW! Talk about ridiculous.

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             Castlepalomaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

             I know my usefulness in the real world and the strength and weaknesses. You suggest to a new comer to edit, related to my post.
             
             Strategy is my nature born talent and know every major step to succeed in those aims and pay attention to your own steps.

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                Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                Good job at fooling yourself.
                Strategy is your natural born talent? Not likely. You're not rational enough.

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                   Castlepalomaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                   It is not rational to call so many people ill-rational and be so negative, get that checked out.
                   
                   If I am foolish, then I'm happy on how it works in staying healthy, on how it works with natural environment and how it serves millions of other happy
                   people. You got something against happy, healthy people too?

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                      Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                      It's not being negative. It's an attempt to reason with those who are unreasonable. Again, you prove you know virtually nothing.

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                         Castlepalomaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                         Cagsil.
                         It's not being negative. It's an attempt to reason with those who are unreasonable. Again, you prove you know virtually nothing.
                         
                         The way you down people. you would think many of these people on the forum were  talking to you from a mental hospital and your explaining to them, there is no hope or cure for them
                         
                         Cagil- you have proven nothing, you have given me very little in positive  constructiveness. Too bad, I do have plenty to give back and plenty to be grateful for in life. Good luck on your downing and against ventures while sharing very little core thinking about yourself.

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                            Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                            Down people? I am blunt and straightforward. Don't like, then that's your problem. Get over yourself. Aside from that people give words power. If someone thinks I am being condescending? or talking as I am superior? then it's a bad perception. I have no need or desire to better than anyone else and I don't see myself that way. I am humble to a point.
                            Actually, that couldn't be further from the truth. I think no such thing of anyone on HubPages. Yes, there are a few who should learn tolerance. There are a lot of people who need to learn acceptance.
                            When you give up the irrationality you continue spew forth from your mouth, I would be glad to give you credit for something positive. Until then, hold your breath.
                            Good for you.
                            Luck? Doesn't exist. And your repeated statement about me downing people is as stated above. Other than that, enjoy.

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                               Castlepalomaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                               To find your ultimate love of your life, would takes a lot of skill and some luck, since you lack the spiritual part of luck, I would not want to speculate about the small box you live in. I want to accept you for who you are, it's only you won't allow me in that small core box of yours.
                               
                               Your repeatedly claim to others and me that we are  irrational is not a true and healthy sigh of acceptance nor is it even being reasonable enough to learn what really goes on in their shoes. How will you ever get a closer understanding of most people who are spiritual sided.
                               
                               Until then, our positive exchange between us will be very little, mean while I have many other love ones to take care of and massive amount of people to share with.
                               
                               Enjoy yourself

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    mrmattybposted 13 years ago

    you are very right there Cagsil. agreed. put religious in front of my prior statement.

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       Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       You know, you could do it yourself. You should be able to edit any forum post up to 3 hours.

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