Raising the standard

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kerrygposted 15 years ago
Oh dear, the only picture gallery hub currently on the hot hubs page is mine. Is there an embarrassed smiley around here? It was so much fun to make, though, and you will at least find there is not a single sentence copied from wikipedia or whatever the female equivalent of askmen.com is....

I've been staying out of this discussion on the grounds that I tend to feel the best response to content you don't like is creating more content you do like, and promoting it, rating it, commenting on it, etc. I don't mind the galleries themselves, they're easy to avoid as long as they don't have inappropriate thumbnail images (I've got a ten year old running around while I'm hubbing sometimes too), but I do mind that so many of them have little or no original content. I think the response to that is flagging them and rating them down, though, not necessarily banning them outright or segregating them somewhere. Between Maddie and the other mods and the HubPages algorithm rewarding original content, I think most of these inappropriate hubs are going to be fairly flash-in-the-pan, especially if we members stay active about flagging ones with copied content, etc.

I hope my Jared Padalecki gallery hub (the one currently on hot hubs) is proof that you can have a gallery hub that's fun and original, and I know some of the other galleries I've seen by the likes of DJ Funktual, Isabella Snow, etc. meet those standards.
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pauldeedsposted 15 years ago
I'm not sure that I've read everything on this subject, it seems to have exploded across several hubs and forum topics. I'll try and address some of the key points.

It's obvious that everyone has their own personal definition for "pornography", and especially it seems softcore pornography (wikipedia). I don't think you'll see much on HubPages that you couldn't also see in a PG-13 movie, or in mainstream magazines like Sports Illustrated, Vanity Fair (don't click if you're easily offended), or even National Geographic.

We certainly understand why some people might find it objectionable, but for the record we don't consider a picture of two women (or a man and a woman, or two men) kissing to be pornographic. We also don't consider most pictures of people in swimwear or sarees to be pornographic.

I don't believe HubPages has ever been marketed as a "family friendly" site. In fact our terms of service require that authors be 18 years old. Within the bounds of our publishing guidelines (which haven't changed in 11 months) and user agreement, we're committed to remaining an open publishing platform. This means open to photo gallery hubs as well as open to a lot of other types of content that we don't necessarily like.

That said, we do actively enforce our rules. If a hub is deceptively tagged or titled, it will be unpublished until corrected. If a hub contains mature content it will be removed (as soon as we notice it or if it has been flagged). Repeated violations can result in the closing of an account.

One misconception I've seen tossed around concerns copied content. Copyright infringement is certainly a violation of our rules. However, legally duplicated content is not in itself a violation. It will lower your HubScore and you're not allowed to place outgoing promotional links on copied hubs, but it is not explicitly prohibited. As an example, Wikipedia content can be used legally as long as you follow their rules. [Note: I don't think copying content from Wikipedia into a Hub is a good thing to do, but i f you're going to do it you should at least follow their rules]

As Mark pointed out, if you want to undermine the efforts of those that post galleries of photos that they do not own, you'd be best of seeking out the original source of the photos (or text), and letting them know. We are extremely vigilant about responding to properly filed DMCA Complaints. After a second DMCA violation, an account will be in danger of being closed. (At the same time, you might want to check your own hubs for photos that you don't have the rights to as well).

It may be obvious, but another way you can effect change within the existing system: 1) do not become fans of people whose content you don't like, 2) don't view hubs you don't like (it should be pretty clear from the title), 3) definitely don't link to hubs you don't like, 4) if you do happen to find yourself accidentally viewing a hub that you don't like, give it a thumbs down (or flag it if it violates the rules).

While traffic is one component of our scoring system, it certainly isn't the only thing we consider. The fact is, we do a very good job of assigning the top scores to the type of content and authors that are contributing at the highest level. The Best Hubs lists and the topics page are programmed using HubScore. The Hot Hubs lists use some of the components of HubScore but are biased toward new hubs, hubs with recent comment activity, and recent increases in traffic. Appearance on the hot list is not an endorsement that the hub is of high quality. It means it is of reasonable quality, and is "hot".

In regards to Google. We got lots of search traffic to HubPages when we had explicit adult content on the site. We get lots of search traffic today. The fact is, it is Google that sends much of the traffic to the hubs that are being objected to. I really don't think photo galleries put us in danger of losing search traffic. In fact, the link building that the purveyors of photo hubs do most likely contributes in a small way to all types of hubs getting more traffic.

We certainly don't want to lose any of the excellent authors that have been threatening to leave over this issue. However, we are committed to operating HubPages as an open platform and a place for all types of people, content, and points of view.
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Mark Knowlesposted 15 years ago
Kathryn,

I have no more animosity towards Mormonism than I do with any other religion.

I think they are all as bad as each other I could have as easily used the word Muslim, or Catholicism or whatever-ism. They are all the same from my perspective.

But you all seem to be missing the point I am trying to make.

Regardless of what I personally think of whatever anyone else is writing about - I am not suggesting it be removed from the site because it is detracting from my own work.

I told you before I think hubpages is a great place for you to spread your word. I still think that.

I don't have to read what you are saying. Any more than I have to look at the semi-naked women hubs.

My worry here is that this is just the start and this is the point I am making.

First we try and get rid of the hubs that feature semi-naked women.

Because some people don't like this. Even though it doesn't break hubpages TOS and doesn't break google's adsense requirements.

What next? The fat free recipes? The Mormon hubs? This is the point I am making. Not that your hubs should be deleted.

Hubpages has a rule against porn. I do not see any porn on the site.

Show me the porn and I will do my best to get it removed.

In fact - show me some hubs that contain what google or hubpages consider to be porn and if hubpages refuse to delete them - I will un-publish all my own hubs until it is gone.

Not what you consider to be unacceptable content, but porn.

I am still waiting for steph to show me some.

Edit - I was writing this as Paul Deeds added his comment so.......
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PLMposted 15 years ago
(WARNING: Explicit and vulgar content. If you don't get my sarcasm or don't know who I am. Skip this reply and do your children a favor if you're unable to be their parent. Protect them from such damaging content their little eyes might be subjected to from the absence of strong role models in their life)

Everyone's got an opinion...

I'm an American living in the U.S.A. and we have our freedoms here where the thought police constantly try to tell you what you should be doing and censoring our freedoms at alarming rates. I don't know about you or your country but we've got it pretty good here in America still.

I am an American and while I know many people on the internet are from other countries around the world, I myself have fought for my country. I believe our freedoms here are very important not only to myself, but every American that is blessed for being here. We have no control over who our parents are and where in this planet we were born. Censorship is ever increasing problem as Americans turn to their liberal thought control thinking governments who wish to remain in power and come up with new ways to make sure they stay in power. The government authority in our lives being pleaded with about who should censor this and that because of our "poor kids" and who's there to protect the children? It's all bullshit and it's bad for you. But this is the internet, not America right? Do we REALLY have the freedom to throw out garbage and post anything we desire?

Here's my two cents on this issue. The internet is global, and it's got it's rules and terms of agreements. No argument that there's a lot of horseshit out there with photo galleries of adsense peppered hotties being plastered on every top hot hub score that everyone wishes to censor. Who gives a rats ass. Maybe they have the freedom to check their adsense revenue every morning from the celebrity slide shows they whored out. If they don't enjoy this freedom then I'm sure the powers that be will nail em to the cross! Repent you f***ing sinners!! HOPE THEY BURN IN HELL!!! Those sons of bitches! We'll get every last one of them!!!! Quick! Throw her in the water and see if she floats!!!

(know why we burn witches? ....cuz their made of wood!)
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amy janeposted 15 years ago
I have one question:

Why were all of the lovely photo galleries taken off of the hot hubs pages this morning? They seem to have vanished rather quickly. If they were not violating any rules, why are they gone?

I assume, Mark, that Steph will have difficulty finding them at this point.
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  Bonnie Ramseyposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I noticed this too, Amy. They are mysteriously buried deep in the pages now.
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  kerrygposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  There are a few scattered around, but yeah, I noticed too. My suspicion is that with all the attention right now, a lot of the top ones are probably being flagged right and left.
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  Zsuzsy Beeposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Very odd!!!! Last night before I commented I physically counted the "booby/sexy" of the first 12 Hot Hubs pages and came up with 36....that was what I based my 25% of useless hubs on. Don't get me wrong I'm not a prude, an odd semi-naked person here or there doesn't concern me one way or another but what does bug me is that the useless garbage is displayed on the beginning of the list and the good and interesting hubs are hidden at the back end. Still only my two dimes worth (inflation you know)zs
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Bonnie Ramseyposted 15 years ago
It appears that the Gods have spoken. I am just a bit confused as to the difference here because there is porn and there is also adult content. It doesn't necessarily take outright porn to be adult content. I am simply going by the statement put out by HP themselves 11 months ago in this topic. http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/508

"As a community, a website, a service, and a business, I invite you to publish Hubs on topics that are safe for all viewers."

Yes, you must be 18 to have an account with HP but any age group can view it freely and I was not aware that "all viewers" only included teens and older but I guess that is the case.

Bonnie
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pauldeedsposted 15 years ago
Perhaps people spend more time looking at pictures on the weekend than Monday morning. We haven't changed the way hot hubs are calculated recently, although we do have some subtle improvements in the works (we've made dozens of small changes over the last year, most of which probably went unnoticed).
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  amy janeposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks for answering my question.Surely it has nothing to do with the legal implications or google violations of mixing educational material and adult content, as was brought up earlier.
  
  Lucky for me, I had my paddock boots on, cause it's knee deep in here.
  
  Now, let me get my bags and I'll be on my way.
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Mark Knowlesposted 15 years ago
lol

That would have to be my next hub

I know what I am having for breakfast tomorrow. Sod the diet
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LdsNana-AskMormonposted 15 years ago
gamegirl -

I understand that you personally, have experience of six months in the Adult Entertainment Industry. I am not wrong in what I have posted here -- you have just not found out about the intentions and purposes of those who run this industry - from the top down. Unfortunately, you and likely other good people are being used as well.

The facts and statistics of the very harmful effects of pornography that are available, are staggering. This very cunning plan, which is easy to not believe exist - is extremely calculated as to how they bring in more junkies to porn. It starts off very slow and soft... just exactly what we are seeing and hearing in response to the current issue here. Don't look if you are bothered, or just keep writing, or no way that is such an over-exaggeration, etc.... It is a slippery slope.

Desensitization is their tool of choice. Anywhere they can place "that" which is just a bit more edgy than the norm, and get away with it... they have a victory. They always have a next move, with just a little more exposure. Push it just a bit more, until there is no fuss.

Charlotte - I trust that you are a good person. So, as you are a part of this industry currently, I would just ask, that you make your own little observation over a period of time. Trust me, you will see it then.

It is easy to suggest that this type of sounding the alarm - is strictly zealot behavior. I hope that most of you have come to know who I am by now. This is not my style. I do not go around telling people that if they don't accept Jesus, they are going to hell. You know that is not my MO.

Instead of attempting to disbelieve or even disregard what I have presented here, I would ask people to go out and do a little research of their own... if they are concerned that this could be a real threat. Which of course, I believe that the current casualness of HP is enabling - by not insisting on their own policies being maintained.

I do not believe, that one particular company has made a plan to attack HP specifically. What I do know, is the the Industry as a whole, have adopted a philosophy of how to infiltrate soft-porn and then progress from there. It is a well planned and well thought out system, which is encouraged by this industry, to all those who perpetuate pornography online. It is always the little guys, that do the big guys dirty work.

The big guys do their best to keep their hands clean. The little guys work for ways to open the doors for the big guys. Problem is, that the little guys, do not have all the facts. Currently, we have too many of these little guys, playing innocent, here on Hubpages - pushing the limits. Right now, it looks as though they are quite successful with the top guys here?

I will not defend what I have posted. It is the truth. It cannot be disputed so lightly. To those who are interested in the facts and statistics of pornography and it's devastating effects on individuals, families and children - there are volumes of credible information that would love to be distributed on an educational basis.

Charlotte - I believe that you love Hubpages as you say. I also believe that you feel confident in your Industry and their desire to protect children. I'm sorry, but the only reason that they have interest in protecting children - is law that must be adhered to, or they will be put out of business. Big big business! Much to lose. They at the top, better darn well play by the rules.

The influence and infiltration plan of this Industry is well known in the Adult Entertainment world. It is obvious, that this would be vehemently denied by them. Addiction is their golden ticket. The younger exposure, the more valuable customer. It only makes good business sense, right?

Honestly, do you really think I came up with such an awful conspiracy on my own? No, this is called the real world. It is sickening. This is the kind of stuff that really goes on in this world. It is enabled because of the unbelievability factor...

Kathryn
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gamergirlposted 15 years ago
Kathryn,

I will not type another long response point for point to you again, as you have disregarded it in it's entirety.

I am sorry that you misunderstood my entire response, which took me roughly 45 minutes to type to you because I wanted to make sure that you fully understood what I was trying to convey, but I guess I failed.

I cannot fix the paranoia and inclinations toward conspiracy theory by people. I have presented honest information gleaned from full immersion in the industry. I am always available to answer questions, and will NEVER speak anything less than the truth.

Edits to add:

I happen to be part and parcel, in a very large way, of the boogeyman you're speaking out against, Kathryn. I put food on my table, have a roof over my head and a wedding in a year, all thanks to the paychecks I draw from working in this industry helping normal people create and maintain adult sites that follow all the rules, not just of the government but of our company.

Fact: The number one source of child pornography reports comes from people within the industry.

I will not debate versus conspiracy or paranoia any further with you. Please have a blessed day.
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In The Doghouseposted 15 years ago
LDS Nana,
I believe with some further investigation into the issue, your insights into the issue of pornography and soft porn will prove to be reliable. Although Gamergirl does present a wonderful argument, IMHO getting facts from the Porn Industry itself is a little like getting facts on cigarettes from the Tobacco Industry.
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  SweetiePieposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  One of my good friend's was engaged to a man who became highly addicted to pornography. He began to criticize her looks and said she should lose weight so she could look more like the people in the videos he liked to watch. Eventually they broke up because he was more obsessed with watching porn videos than marrying a real life woman. One book I always recommend is Ten Stupid Things Women Do To Mess Up Their Lives, which is written by Dr. Laura Schlessinger. Many people love her or hate her, but no one can deny she has extensive background and expertise in the field of family and marriage. One thing she always advises women who call into her radio show is that men who view pornography or call sex phone call girls are not going to make healthy husbands or boyfriends. Many people call into this show telling how pornography has destroyed families and marriages, so what Kathryn is saying about pornography is true. It does destroy relationships and marriages and I have seen it first hand.
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  Zarm Nefilinposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Usually when people in general "Love or Hate" a person it is because that person is extreme in their views, hence the "Love or Hate" response.
  
  I don't think Dr. Laura gets by this principle, which is a good rule of thumb I use for a lot of things, not just people or people's views.
  
  Most people are not obssessed with sexuality like conservatives are. Sure, we may not get as much pleasure out of it because we are not so focused on confining and narrowing our sexuality and intensely focusing on it, (those outside of the conservative movement), but that does not mean that everyone who views these things or has viewed them in the past somehow makes bizzare and unfathomable expectations from their significant others. Why would I want someone of the opposite sex who I was in a relationship with to act like someone in a movie? That would be bizzare and ridiculous as well as very disrespectful of her person.
  
  There is no reason to expect people to act like people in a movie, it is so cheesy and stereotypical for one, and for two (and most importantly), it does not respect the person. If not for the fact that I used to believe such things coming from a conservative angle myself-and without the light of the fact that it is misinformation- I would be genuinely confounded by what you are saying. It is that bizzare, and the only reason I understand the misinformation is because I was the unfortunate recipient of it in the past through no fault of my own, (I was raised and co-erced to believe such misinformation as the doctrine you have posted).
  
  It honestly makes no logical sense, especially in light of what others have posted.
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  SweetiePieposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Not everyone who likes Dr. Laura is a conservative. I just think she happens to offer sound advice. My friend read her book and was able to stop making bad choices for herself, so I read it to see what it is all about. Nothing I said was bizarre, but the fact you take my disagreeing with you to be bizarre is insulting. Yes some people do have an addiction to pornography. I am not the only other person that feels this way. I was willing to stay away from this thread, but since you targeted my message only I came back. By the way, Tyra Banks did a show about the porn industry and talked of porn addiction and she is not conservative. This has been a major topic on many shows and in many books. People try to argue it away, but there are who use porn movies as their fantasy. There is research out there showing this and other people on this thread said that porn can be addictive. So why do you care if I feel this way? If you feel I am wrong you could just say you disagree, you did not have to put me down to achieve your point. I am not offering misinformation, I just do not agree that porn is completely safe because just like there are alcoholics, there are porn addicts. What they do about it is their business. However this is not a conservative/liberal issue and I am not even exactly conservative. I think it is wrong to say everything is black or white.
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  Zarm Nefilinposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  No point in starting an arguement, no good will come of it.
  
  I will not waste my time.
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  SweetiePieposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Well you did insult me sorry to say. I did not use strong words. You made so many assumptions about me and I was insulted because you told me what I said was bizarre. I am sure if someone had said that about your analysis was bizarre you would have stood up for yourself. I happen to think my opinions are intelligent and savvy, so I have just as much freedom to stand up for my opinions. You do not have to agree with me, but there is a nicer was to disagree. By the way I am not a Republican and I a Democrat. I do not wish to get into an argument and maybe you could consider that something you said did hurt my feelings.
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  Zarm Nefilinposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Maybe you could consider that you are trying to pick a fight?
  
  I am sorry I hurt your feelings.
  
  Evidently, mine do not count, so goodbye to you.
  
  You are supposedly sweet and kind hearted, yet you hurt my feelings too and are "off to another forum", without one word of apology.
  
  Your door swings both ways
  
  I hope you have fun on the other forum.
  
  May life smile on you and everyone you meet.
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  SweetiePieposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I always smile . By the way I never pick fights and I said I do not want to argue.
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  Ralph Deedsposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Dr. Laura is an evil person. http://www.bartcop.com/mengidx.htm
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  SweetiePieposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Who knows about that. I do not care personally. I am a good person, I just happen to think the advice she gives in her book is good. Why fuel a fire? Many people give good advice but do not always follow it. Like I know I should not eat sweets, but I continue to do that. Gee, that was funny!
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  SweetiePieposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  One of my good friend's was engaged to a man who became highly addicted to pornography. He began to criticize her looks and said she should lose weight so she could look more like the people in the videos he liked to watch. Eventually they broke up because he was more obsessed with watching porn videos than marrying a real life woman. One book I always recommend it Ten Stupid Things Women Do To Mess Up Their Lives, which is written by Dr. Laura Schlessinger. Many people love her or hate her, but no one can deny she has extensive background and expertise in the field of family and marriage. One thing she always advises women who call her is that men who view pornography or call sex phone call girls are not going to make healthy husbands or boyfriends. Many people call into this show telling how pornography has destroyed families and marriages, so what Kathyrn is saying about pornography is true. It does destroy relationships and marriages and I have seen it first hand.
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Rochelle Frankposted 15 years ago
Have we said every possible thing on this yet?
Let's get back to creating hubs.
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gamergirlposted 15 years ago
No, it's not at all.

You see, whereas the tobacco industry actually KILLS people, pornography does not cause death in those who partake of it (barring freak accidents of complete personal carelessness on the part of a watcher.)

Without divulging precise methods of gaining more affiliates, traffic or sales, I can tell you with 100% surety that this business, the adult industry on the whole, is filled with businessmen and businesswomen who happen to sell consensual and non-prostitutional sex for the general adult populace to view.

It is unfortunate that people believe erroneously that the adult industry is out to turn everyone into debauched sex fiends with one hand in their pockets and children corrupted younger each year. That's not the purview of the adult industry.

The adult industry has it's own bad apples, but they are few and far between, as the industry is largely self-policing.

*sigh* I'm going to stop, I honestly feel like trying to show you guys that you've got the wrong idea about the adult entertainment industry is going to go nowhere but more uneducated outsider opinion and fear.
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gamergirlposted 15 years ago
Rochelle,

This is an open forum. We encourage discussion, and at times you will see a thread go on and on and on beyond the original poster's intention for it. Healthy discussion is not something to quell, but urge forward. We can only grow by learning from one another.
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weblogposted 15 years ago
As long as everybody has a point to put on here, I think the thread should go on
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  robie2posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Weblog-- I like your new avatar and I just went and read your latest hub. I must say I am very impressed and you certainly have my respect now-- anyone who is willing to change is someone I take my hat off to. Kudos to you, Weblog
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  weblogposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks a lot
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SweetiePieposted 15 years ago
The most gross thing I saw was where there was a dad role playing spanking his daughter. Yes they were porn stars and not related, but that was just disgusting. I am glad they took that hub down because gee who wants to see that! Because that person stole the pics from a website that had its name on the photo I now know there is an entire website devoted to this type of entertainment. Gross
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  ProCWposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  That's just nasty! I'm glad they took that down too!!!!!!!!
  
  ProCW
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gamergirlposted 15 years ago
It is true for a minority.

I'm sorry, but this topic is something I'm incredibly familiar with, and I can tell you with all certainty that there are facets to the adult entertainment industry one does not see as a consumer.
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  PLMposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Nailed it with that statement right there sister.
  
  I've managed 3 skin clubs in my past, and bounced at about more then a dozen. One thing I can tell from experience is the mentality within the "family" is we only tell you what we want you to know. There is 'us' and there is 'them' At least in this industry if you are 'them' then you are not with 'us' and you will never ever know anything more then we wish you to. Cannot tell you how many acts and displays I've put on with the girls for customers that were totally fake and I've heard the statement "you've got the best job in the world!" by customers on a minute basis. Usually followed by a customer asking half joking, "how do I get a job as a bouncer? heh heh" ..."kill someone" I would say, finishing the joke.
  
  This was over a decade ago since I've worked in that industry or managed a club. It's changed a lot since those old school days but I'm sure the mentality of 'family' still exists. The public consumer in this industry never will see, nor be allowed to see 'behind the scenes' of our daily lives other then what we wish to show you. That's the mystique behind it all. If we appeared normal then it would lose it's flair. Who said I was normal anyway.
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SweetiePieposted 15 years ago
Whereas people in the adult industry may not wish this upon people, but I can say there are ordinary people outside the industry who get addicted to porn. Yes the same is true with food, drugs, or anything else. However, there is a trend towards more and more revealing and more and more sexualized media. I think the answer is the keep one's children away from the computer of course, all I can say is I do see the concern people have about porn becoming more prolific. However, I would never let it destroy my life and if a guy I dated watched or looked at porn I am out the door. I have control over my own life, so I do not think it will destroy families if people maintain that control.
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gamergirlposted 15 years ago
SweetiePie,

Do you realize just how many ordinary everyday people look at porn at least a half a dozen times in their lives and never suffer any of the paranoid maladies you've heard about on the extremist programs you're mentioning?

My fiance, for instance:

Before I even started networking in the adult industry (this was several years ago) my fiance and I watched porn together. Yes, together.

We never had sex afterward. It was entertainment to us.

We're both in our mid-twenties, and never, NEVER have we had an issue revolving around pornography.

I know literally hundreds of people, have friends in four countries and scattered all over the internet. I also deal with thousands of perfectly normal people who just so happen to run adult websites. None of these people has EVER encountered someone who is porn addicted.

Porn addiction is, for the most part, a sham. From the outside looking in, you see it so much differently, I know I did.
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SweetiePieposted 15 years ago
I know there are many normal people and average people who look at porn. Nevertheless, it does not mean I have to accept that in a person I date. Yes I dated a guy who watched porn and he was not addicted, but I refused to date him after that. What I am saying is correct and true for me. I do not have to date or marry someone who looks at a fantasy because this contradicts my beliefs and I am not alone in feeling this way. I may still be single because I am waiting for someone who shares my same feelings on certain issues, but I will not compromise on certain things. I know men who will not look at porn. It does exist.
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gamergirlposted 15 years ago
I'm not saying you have to date a man who watches porn. I'm not trying to dictate how you live your romantic life. I am merely defending the position of the Big Bad Wolf that everyone seems to make the porn industry out to be, when honestly the people who should be pointed fingers at...

are the people without restraint.
The people who replace wholesome romance with vhs and dvd movies.
The people who see adults doing it, and think about all their nasty fetishes and tape illegal stuff to distribute to all their sexually deviant friends.

We, the adult industry, produce and promote pornography, which is a perfectly safe and healthy activity for any adult, and have lengthy procedures and laws to follow, not to mention each company has their own additional structures in place.

Pornography is safe.

Pornography is not the crux of the matter when considering failed marriages or relationships, it is the people who cannot prioritize or hold fast to the things that are genuinely more important.
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  SweetiePieposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Please reread what I wrote. I said I know there is addiction in all things. I do not think anyone is the big bad wolf, if anything I think my response is some what neutral between the porn industry stance and the other extreme. I feel that the media is more sexualized than what I would what my future children to see, but I also know I have the control over what I see and do.
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gamergirlposted 15 years ago
My post addressed you, as well as the thread as a whole, mostly because I'm getting very tired of explaining to people that their misconceptions about the industry are just that. I apologize if I made the response too broad after the first paragraph.

Off to bed with me, work comes very early in the morning. Rest well, SweetiePie, and everyone else.
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  SweetiePieposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Good night Charlotte and I see you are an expert in this field. However, we are also experts in our own right in certain aspects of this issue. I will not say anymore about it because what is the use and people will do what they want. I do not have any shame with publishing at Hubpages because those picture gallery people do not impact what I do, that is them, this is me. No point in discussing this issue and HP Admin will do as they see fit because this is their website to run. I respect whatever they decide.
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gamergirlposted 15 years ago
Maddie,

My sincerest hope out of all of this is that, first and foremost, the Hubbers who've expressed their concern and displeasure have gotten it all out there, out of their systems - there is healing in the release of frustrations, it's said. Second on my list of hopes in this whole sordid shindig is that it has helped all of us, both on the writer side and on you guys' end of the pond, hopefully giving an idea of what the outspoken people who've posted so far have felt, want and see here on Hubpages.

Tertiarily, I really do hope we (all of us) haven't created too terribly much more in the way of a mess.
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  Bonnie Ramseyposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Gamer,
  
  First of all, this is not just a little frustration that can be "gotten out of our system" like a child who lost their ice cream cone! This is a very passionate subject for many people and we just finally had enough and spoke up.
  
  Second of all, there has not been a thing accomplished from all this other than losing some contributors over it. I am sure that fact will probably make a few people pretty happy but it is really sad. Again, it will be tossed aside until the next newbies come in and are shocked to find them here or older members get sick of it again. I wish all of you the best.
  
  Bonnie
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  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Bonnie - I have to ask:
  
  Why did you choose hubpages as a place to write, knowing that these sort of hubs are also produced here?
  
  And there was something accomplished.
  
  You now know that the rules are not going to be changed.
  
  I must admit I am disappointed that fat-free recipes are still allowed, but I will just learn to live with it
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gamergirlposted 15 years ago
Bonnie,

I think you're overreacting to my statement. There was nothing in my words indicating your frustrations were/are childish in nature. I have read some flat out wild statements being throne around, and I think that the appearance of only TWO "sexy galleries" in the first five pages of the Hot Hubs list is an indicator that SOMETHING is being done.

I'll be glad when all of this is over and people are calm again.
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Bonnie Ramseyposted 15 years ago
Mark,

To answer your question, when I joined HP 6 months ago, these hubs weren't splattered all over HP like they are now. I am not the only one who has been here for a while that has made this same statement. I chose HP because, according to the TOS, this type of thing wasn't allowed and the community seemed like the kind that I wanted to be a member of. I didn't join for the money because I don't even do the adsense stuff. I love writing and this seemed to be a good place to share that. Nobody has asked HP to "change the rules". We have asked that they enforce the TOS that they, themselves set. Something doesn't have to be outright porn or totally nude photos to be adult content.

Charlotte,

If I misunderstood that then I apologize but when you talk about "getting it out of your system" like it is just something that can be swept away, it seemed that way. As far as the TWO galleries you mention, several of us noticed the sudden disappearance of those hubs yesterday and mentioned that fact. According to HP, they had nothing to do with those hubs "hiding" deep in the pages, so I don't see how you think something is being done about it when Paul himself said that they had nothing to do with it. Either way, we have been told more than once that we need to keep this to ourselves or go somewhere else so I guess the freedom of expression only works one way.

I really love the people here at HP and I have done my best to participate in a way that I would be a welcome member of the community as many of the ones who have an issue over this has. However, it seems lately that when some of the newer members post a problem they are having with something like this, they are made to feel unwanted and unwelcome. I have seen more and more of these types of remarks made to newbies and some not-so-newbies lately. It is only done by a few but the effect is the same. Members are left feeling as if they are an intruder. I truly hope that things do calm down for all of you and it seems as if most of us have entered into the acceptance phase of the decision. However, you are the one who said if someone has something to say, the thread should continue. Guess that kinda came back to bite the butt lol. I have a few teeth scars on my cheeks as well at times. I do wish all of you the best and I'll be seeing you around, hopefully.

Bonnie
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Mark Knowlesposted 15 years ago
Bonnie - I beg to differ. I have seen no more or less of these in the time I have been here. Perhaps because I just ignore them? I don't know.

I must admit, I have been a little surprised at how aggressively some of the newer members choose to voice their opinions as to what should and should not be allowed to be produced on hubpages.

And to also be perfectly honest, I have a problem with being told by some one who has been here for 6 weeks telling me what I can or cannot produce on hubpages and aggressively trying to get the rules changed to suit. Not that I am interested in producing hubs with photos of half naked Indian chicks

But - I still have yet to be given a link to one of these porn or adult content pages that are published.

Will some one please leave a link here so I can see what the fuss is all about - I can't find them
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mulderposted 15 years ago
Ok Im only new here myself but I have to ask one good question Mark where do you buy that yummy breakfast from ?
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  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You have to cook it yourself
  
  Chips recipe:
  
  http://hubpages.com/hub/Perfect-English-Chips
  
  Everything else is easy.
  
  Baked beans, grilled tomatoes, fried bread (lard is best), fried bacon, fried sausages, fried mushrooms, fried eggs, kippers, or any combination. Hmmmmmmmm
  
  Eat for brunch with a nice pint of English beer, or for breakfast with strong tea.
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  Uninvited Writerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You forgot the black pudding...
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  mulderposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  ok thanks Mark I might ask my wife to cook it Im a terrible cook Im afraid lol.
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amy janeposted 15 years ago
I just want to be sure that I am clear as to where this thread has gone and to encourage anyone who had the patience to stick with it to examine the LIES!!!

1. Porn is good. It is managed and run by all good people. It does no harm to individuals anywhere or to society as a whole.
2. High fat foods are great. Donuts won't make you fat. Don't worry about the fact that a high fat diet is linked to 90% of the diseases that kill us.
3. HubPages made no changes to their policy. The questionable hubs have vanished from the front pages all by themselves. Therefore, all those who complained that rules were being broken were wrong.

Seriously, are you all aspiring politicians? Or are you really living in a bubble of denial?

I will leave you all to it, then, to sit on your couches attempting to juggle your high fat foods in one hand while "enjoying" your porn with the other.

I am sure you will have a grand time of it.
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  Maddie Ruudposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I can't speak to numbers 1 and 2, but whatever hubs to which you were referring (it's never been clear exactly which ones) did disappear from the first pages on their own, if indeed they are gone from hence, and were there in the first place.
  
  Just as HubScore fluctuates, so do Hot Hubs. These things are calculated automatically, and don't involve human decisions, other than to alter the formula, which, as Paul stated, hasn't been done for a while (and certainly not over the weekend). I'm not sure what evidence you think there is for a conspiracy theory.
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  PLMposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  1. ...I can introduce you to individuals who have met my wrath at a skin club and they will give you their testimony of just how harmful it can be.
  
  2. Donuts are deadly! I threw a whole dozen out of my window on the freeway during a high speed pursuit once and seen 3 cops almost get into fatal accidents as they swerved off the road to follow the box.
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gamergirlposted 15 years ago
Amy Jane,

There are bad people in every profession. That does not mean that all people in that profession are bad, nor does it mean that the vast majority of people in that profession are bad.

I'm rather offended that you believe I would just out and out lie, when to be blunt: I've no reason in the world to lie to any one of you. What purpose would it serve? None. There are things I must not divulge, most of them relating to typical business (not specific to the porn industry, but rather the same kinds of nondisclosure things that anyone must agree to in similar fields.) Other than the things I am legally bound to be hushed about, I have attempted to speak frankly about the way the industry works for the simple reason that knowledge, true knowledge, about the adult industry does more help than harm.

It is unfortunate that you think I have been lying, and saddens me that you have lashed out so angrily. (My perception.)
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  amy janeposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Charlotte,
  I was exaggerating to make a point. I don't believe that you are lying about your experience with your company. I do not think that the adult industry is harmless to people, regardless of whether or not it is the intention of the people making tons of money off of it.
  I am lashing out because I am tired of all of this. It has all left me very sad, actually, because I will not continue to publish at Hubpages.
  Charlotte, I have respected you since I first came here. I love that you don't back down from a fight and you do it with heart. We will not likely agree here. And that is ok.
  I do wish you well.
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  weblogposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Amy, sorry for interrupting. I wish I can see you continue publishing here. You're angry, I think everything will be OK when you get cool Don't mistake me.
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Dorsiposted 15 years ago
If you look at Hot Hubs you will see only 1 possibly questionable hub that some might deem "inapproriate" right now on the first 5 pages. Just glancing through it, I have no objections but some might- the others are truly helpful hubs such as picking a bra and picking a swimsuit (great info as far as I'm concerned) I think we are probably seeing some democratic process happening here- as hubs that people consider "substandard", lacking in originality or content, blatant advertising, are falling deeper and deeper behind. Cream will always rise to the top, and I think as long as people concentrate on writing good great hubs, with useful and engaging material- those are the writers and the hubs that will rise to the top- which they should- and are.
I think this is going to be addressed just through the activity of the hubbers- who will deem what is great writing and what is not- and I imagine that Google and all other search engines will pick this up too- and once again- what's good will be at the top.
And I think it's been a real "eye-opener" for all of us (excuse the pun!)
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  Ralph Deedsposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Good points!
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amy janeposted 15 years ago
Here is what I know for a fact.

There were a minimum of three borderline hubs per every hot hubs page on Sunday night.

Monday morning by 11 there were one or two floating around in the first five pages, as it is now. These pages have not been this clean in months.

It was clearly pointed out that it is against the rules (google's) to have soft porn side by side with educational content on a site that claims to not have adult content.

So really, I should believe that the indian boobs got up and walked out Harry Potter style? I am simply not buying it. But if Hubpages needs to save face with their porn loving hubbers, by all means...

You have lost a good many high quality hubbers in this battle.
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  LdsNana-AskMormonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  amy jane,
  
  Thanks for your interesting observations, regarding the education that this thread is providing -- from the experts. I happen to agree with your summary.
  
  LdsNana-AskMormon
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  Dorsiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Amy, I know what you are saying. I think that some of these hubs are falling backward too because hubbers are flagging/voting thumbs down- because of all the attention we have been giving them. At least that's what I'm thinking is happening. Like I said in my other post- the democratic process at work.
  It's good to see the pages clean again. When my readers come here I would like them to see what they see now- which is quality-
  Like I said in another post- I have a good friend that has been battling with porn addiction for years- and he actively tries to stay away from sites that might even pull him the wrong way- and I would feel bad if he came here and saw an article like "rate my boobs" on the first page.
  (the same author of that article got a thumbs up from me on another of his hubs that was truly a good informational hub, and a thumbs down on the rate my boobs hub because I didn't think the title or some of the pics was appropriate)- and that's the democratic process at work- rate up for great content, rate down for bad or inappropriate.
  As hubbers, we need to think about the other hubbers here, and if I was writing inappropriate material that was really off I would want my fellow hubbers to let me know- because I do care about what my community thinks- and what my readers think- and I think if we appeal to these hubbers that we think are stepping over the line hopefully they will listen and take our critiques/observations/thoughts into mind.
  I would hate to see you or others leave over this- I think it's something that is working it's way out. For everybody, and a learning experience.
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  Maddie Ruudposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I'm sorry you are so skeptical. I don't have anything else to say about the matter, other than to point out, as Dorsi did above, that perhaps as a result of this conversation, more hubbers are giving such hubs thumbs down, and as Paul did earlier, that perhaps more people are viewing picture galleries on the weekends than on Monday morning. I really have no way of knowing exactly what it was that knocked those hubs off the front page.
  
  In fact, I still don't even know which particular hubs you're referring to. I'm still unclear as to what constitutes "borderline." It seems that everyone has a different threshold where they draw the line. We've already seen this several times in the different definitions individuals hold for the words "pornography" and "softcore porn."
  
  HubPages will be very sorry to see Hubbers go, should they choose to do so over this matter. We do take into account user input, and I think we've clearly stated our position on this matter several times over, so unless something that requires staff clarification comes up, I'm going to bow out of this conversation. I don't think this discussion will come to a satisfactory resolution for anyone, since neither side is going to see eye to eye with the other, but will allow it to continue as long as people are expressing themselves respectfully.
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gamergirlposted 15 years ago
*shakes head*

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  weblogposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I've seen Mark showing this in religion threads Nice one!!!
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In The Doghouseposted 15 years ago
Lds Nana,
I would also have to agree with the observations made by Amy. I think that there are many who are watching the proceedings of this thread who may also silently see that she has made some very valid points.
Earlier you described pornography as a "slippery slope."
I believe that anyone who has witnessed this conversation can see that very slope right before their eyes.
The thread is simply entitled "Raising the Standard." At the beginning a discussion ensued simply on how the quality of Hubs could possibly be increased. Next the discussion led to the "soft porn photo galleries" and from there took a plunge to "Pornography is safe." (quoted from an industry specialist)
If that is not a steep decline I do not know what is.
I have never before witnessed so few Photo Galleries on the Hot Hub pages...it is very difficult for me to believe it is community regulated, as Dorsi has suggested, but the possibility is there I supposed.
The conversation has survived many attempts to change the topic from recipes to ridiculous pictures. I would assume it is an important issue to have remained on the minds of so many Hubbers for so long.

Amy just for you my friend, you are a wonderful Hubber who writes quality Hubs...I applaud you for your integrity.
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  LdsNana-AskMormonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Doghouse -
  
  You could not be more right, in shedding the light on the progression of this one thread... Pornography is safe?
  
  gamegirl -
  
  With all due respect... I do not know what place you go to, in order to make a statement that is just plain ignorant and believe that it is authoritative.
  
  I will not hold you to such an opinion, but it is offensive to many, who know factually - that nothing could be further from the truth. I am one of these people who have witnessed the devastating effects of pornography on peoples lives, whom I love dearly!
  
  Most who find themselves addicted, do not choose addiction. They never gave credibility to the power of that which sucked them into the addiction. Think about it?
  
  A slippery slope indeed.
  
  LdsNana
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gamergirlposted 15 years ago
Pornography is safe.

Those who lack restraint cannot blame the object of their addiction for the addiction itself. You make the choices, you deal with the consequences. Don't like the consequences? Make different choices.
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  Dorsiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Anything can lead to possible addiction. The key is knowing your problem and dealing with it. I applaud my friend as he admits he has a problem and is trying to do something about it- For him it became an obsession and he knows it- it has affected his life very negatively-lost jobs, relationships and other serious things. Addictions happen in all forms.
  And porn can be addicting, and a serious problem. I have a close family member who struggles with it too- and the internet has made it hard for him to stay away from it- so he has to make different choices.
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516Adsposted 15 years ago
Amy,

Did I just read that you will no longer publish on HUBpages?

Major disappointment ... you were fun to read. I hope you change your mind. I must say I'm a little disappointed in you as well .... if HUBpages is as wonderful community as I've heard you mention ... you're giving up pretty quick. Ironically (not sure if I'm using it properly here), in recent days it seems the FEATURED HOT HUBS have disappeared.

C'mon Amy .....
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  amy janeposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I know, David, but this whole thing has left me feeling icky on the inside. I don't see it as giving up, but moving on. I will still come by and read all my friends hubs, though.
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  Dorsiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Amy,please reconsider staying with HubPages. This is a democratic process, and by staying you are lending your voice for what you consider appropriate and everyones opinion is important.
  That's what makes a community vital.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry you have decided to leave Amy. Your choice of course - I must admit to feeling a little icky on the inside myself. Any time some one attempts to inflict their values on me I feel like that.
  
  I was joking about the fat free recipes by the way and trying to make a point that was obviously missed. Oh well - if you want to think that 90% of the world's diseases come from eating fat, that is your business. I still think you have a right to publish fat-free recipes on hubpages and won't be aggressively advocating their removal.
  
  I also meant what I said to Kathryn. If there are porn hubs here that hubpages refuse to delete - I will un-publish all my hubs until they are gone.
  
  Guess you missed that bit of solidarity huh?
  
  I too am bowing out of this discussion, but before I go will one of the anti-porn, so-offended-they-need-to-leave-hubpages people please leave me a link to one of the porn hubs that has caused so much offense. Please? I have looked pretty hard.
  
  But I still cannot find one.
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gamergirlposted 15 years ago
Obviously, the longer I linger in this thread trying to debunk paranoia and incorrect information, the more people are going to respectfully (or not) insult me for trying to speak the truth.

This thread is over, in my eyes.

I will be sorry to see people go, if they truly do, but at the same time I am saddened by the biting, the insults, and the wild accusations I've read over the last week.

Final answer.
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Uninvited Writerposted 15 years ago
I actually flagged one today that had a video from YouTube that had full frontal female nudity. I notice it's gone now. But even that can hardly be considered pornography. I have yet to see any pornography on this site.
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Whitney05posted 15 years ago
Mark, I think the hubs they're reffering to are those that are similar to Hoodala's boob hubs. "rate my boobs", "big indian boobs", "big celebrity boob", "indian boobs", "kelly brook's boobs", etc, where you can see nipples through bathing suits, and excessive amounts of cleavage.

By the way I commend Charlotte for attempting to tell the truths about pornography companies. Although, I've never really look down upon reputable companies, she's still shed a new light upon them... I think the key word being reputable, as those companies are those that check, double check, and triple check paperwork so that they do not employ minors or let their publications be available to minors.
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516Adsposted 15 years ago
The grass is not always greener on the other side ... from Google on down .... there's a way to sex on the internet .... I'm sure one way or another, there are links/ ways to sex from other internet writtng sites.

BTW, Amy since you're leaving ... and you're interested in writing and intellect and ideas ... thumbs up or down on LEARN?

You guys don't want sex on HUBpages, I got something else for you .. lets change the world!!! If you don't want that, I don't know what you want. Maybe you just want to write and hope that everyone loves what you have to say. Maybe you join others friends just so they'll join yours. Who knows? As my profile states, I'm on HUBpages to make a point that Goodness Needs To Speak Up ..... as long as it's going to, it might as well say something smart.

LEARN - Let's End All Racism Now
LEARN - Love Excellence And Respect Now

LEARN, spread the word!!!

It's about love people ... goodness speaking up ... don't make it more complicated than that. HUB away
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  weblogposted 15 years agoin reply to this
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  Ralph Deedsposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  AMEN!
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Marisa Wrightposted 15 years ago
Why on earth would anyone leave HubPages because of what other Hubbers are writing?

Would you leave Blogger because some members have blogs you dislike? Or Wordpress? Or FreeWebs?

True, HubPages does have a setup that allows us to browse through Hubs more readily than Blogger, Wordpress or any of the free website operators. But the majority of our readers don't do that. They find our Hubs through Google or some other search engine. Chances are those people will never come across the offending Hubs. I know I never do.

I read Hubs by people I'm a fan of, then click on "related Hubs" to read more about a subject. I know there are Hubs full of "hot pics" and "boobs", but I never see them.

The only time I become aware of these Hubs is when I go to Hubs or Hubbers to check for spammers, or if I join the forums and see people talking about them. Most of our readers don't do that - they've come to our Hubs looking for specific information, so they have no reason to.

I want to keep HubPages reputation high as far as Google is concerned, by keeping out spammers, because that's good for my traffic. It's reputation for "smut" or "porn" hardly matters, because my readers haven't discovered my articles by choosing to come to HubPages - they've found me by looking for the subject.
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  Zsuzsy Beeposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Marisa!
  I quote your words It's reputation for "smut" or "porn" hardly matters, because my readers haven't discovered my articles by choosing to come to HubPages - they've found me by looking for the subject
  
  ...isn't that sticking your head in the sand like an ostrich? sorry I don't want to sound mean but I would think you can't have a reputation on one sort and not another...
  
  I don't know if those "boob" hubs that wer filling the Hot Hub list were filled with porn or not I wouldn't click on them because I'm just not interested in seing so&so's boobs and I really don't think to rate them either. What I have been doing though is when I've been applying for freelance write jobs I've been pointing people to hubpages to see my style of writing...so if Hubpages reputation is going down the pooper will mine go down too?
  
  I'm still looking for all the interesting hubs which have been being lesser and seriously the "boobs" have started to take over...like usual just my input zs
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  Marisa Wrightposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  No, I don't think so. If you're going to point anyone to HubPages to see your style of writing, you're going to be pointing them at your own profile, or at specific articles you've written. If that's what they're here to look at, there's no reason for them to go browsing around the rest of the site - and if they do, why should they assume that other Hubbers have anything to do with you?
  
  HubPages is just a platform for individuals to make their own websites. Our Google "reputation" is important because it determines our revenue, because our paying traffic mainly comes from search engines. Those people are going to click on your article because it's what they're looking for - they may not even notice it's on HubPages until they get there.
  
  Because we spend time on the forums and browsing around the site checking out other Hubbers' work, we assume everyone does - but that's not necessarily true. Like I said, I've spent a lot of time here browsing around subjects I'm interested in, and I have never stumbled across any "porno" or "smutty" sites while I've been doing that. The only time I find these things is when I go looking for them.
  
  Even if HubPages did decide not to allow "smut" or "porn", it's very difficult to know where to draw the line. There was a Hub recently (probably still there) with pictures of a girl hanging upside down with her boobs hanging out, plus another picture, taken from the rear, of a girl on all fours in extremely short shorts. I found both offensive because they were degrading. On the other hand, I've seen lingerie Hubs showing just as much boob and bum but in a tasteful way which I didn't find degrading at all - but if we had a rule that said "no buttocks" or "no excessive cleavage", both would have to be banned.
  
  Of course, you have to remember that standards vary around the world, too. Here in Australia, we're all still trying to work out what was so shocking about Janet Jackson showing her nipple on TV.
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  Ralph Deedsposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Most of the "boob hubs" I've seen are boring but no more pornographic than bra ads that can be seen in the New York Times or any women's magazine or the fabled Sears Roebuck catalogs of my youth. I haven't seen anything that comes close to pornography since the porn was broomed last year.
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  SweetiePieposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  There was one that Hubpages swiftly took down, but that one was full on porn. Anyway, just because you have not seen it does not mean it was not there. Hubpages does a good job of removing the porn though.
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516Adsposted 15 years ago
Ralph & Weblog

: & Amen ... I agree.

Raising the standard.

These people say that want brilliant, they want serious writers, lets do it. I'm a serious writer:) You say you don't speak English well, that's OK, this is simple. Sex sells. Instead of fighting it, lets use it. We'll create a HUB together. I want the sexiest pictures (sexy, not porn ... it's not necessary - legal photos, no rip-offs, not necessary) from around the world, 12 different countries. In each picture, in the colors of the countries flag we'll put LEARN ... around the world!!! ... we'll throw in a positive thought on each page.

I get final proofing:) You want to create a sexy/brillant popular HUB, lets do it. How much of the proceeds from calender profits do you want to donate to charity ?

LEARN, spread the word!!!
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  weblogposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  David, I think you got me right. Let me explain. My reading taste is entirely different from my own hubs. I'm serious about it. When I want to read something interesting, I'm sure I don't click on photo galleries. I admire the serious writers. You can see my comments in various well written hubs here only because I read them. I don't want any of the serious writer to go, as Amy said.
  
  And, I'm also trying to expand my own writing skills. Thanks
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  SweetiePieposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I know you are Weblog. Your ASIN hub was a good step in that direction I think.
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  weblogposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Actually, SweetiePie, my very first hub as weblog was about Silhouettes(photography) that had my own words along with some wiki definitions and some photos. I did not know it will take some time for hubs getting noticed. I had to switch to photo galleries - minimum text and maximum photos. I think I've come back to writing again. That ASIN hub was something I read somewhere(as news) in web that I presented here in my own words. I will be doing more Thanks for all supports.
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Zsuzsy Beeposted 15 years ago
Unlike others that have young families around when hubbing, it's only me here when I start reading hubs so it's just an annoyance to me having to sort throu smut etc. to get at the informative and interesting hubs. As far as I'm concerned a boobs a boob and not really that educational if it's on a bollywood chicky or on the latest starlet/singer/tennisplayer etc. I guess that has something to do with not being a guy...but at the same time I find it doubtful that I would check out a hub about a collection of naked dudes either...that is just me...

I can't stress the fact enough that I absolutely love hubpages and still consider it my home away from home. Unfortunately in most families not each member sees eye to eye with everyone in the clan.
I have set hubpages up on a pedestal, considered it as absolutely the best, perfect in everyway. User friendly, (even for techno-challenged me) awesome support from the hub-team, some super talented writers that I just absolutely adore. Some knowledge-abel (is that even a word?) members that tirelessly are there with helpful hits and advice.

So to be honest it was a bit of an eye-opener that there is a set of clay-feet hiding in those enormously hard to fill shoes.

I hope that well written, interesting, informative hubs will eventually win the day...my bit zs
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1. 83
  SweetiePieposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Zsuzsy,
  
  Reading what you wrote has made me feel much better. I think you do have many good points.
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2. 87
  Marisa Wrightposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I think we're definitely talking about two different things here.
  
  One is Hubbers hubbing. We spend time on the site, browse around, look at Latest Hubs and Hot Hubs etc etc. I agree that for Hubbers hubbing in that way, these smutty Hubs get in the way. But Hubbers spend enough time here to know that isn't what Hubbing is all about, and to appreciate HubPages in spite of that minority. We also have the power to discourage those Hubs by flagging and thumbing. And it's pretty easy to avoid them, anyway - read Hubs by people you're a fan of, and if you want more, search on your favourite tags.
  
  The other audience is the paying public. They drop in to look at a specific Hub, then are tempted around the site by related Hubs on the same or similar topics. They're quite likely to never go near "Hot Hubs" or "Latest Hubs", and remain blissfully unaware of all the thousands of other Hubs out there on other subjects, including the salacious ones.
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  85
  Zsuzsy Beeposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Marisa!
  One of the main reasons for this blow-up was that hubbers like Amy Jane, Steph Hicks, Bonnie Ramsey, Inthedoghouse, and many more have been objecting to just that, that they can't open up hubpages because their young children see toooooo much sugesstive stuff.
  Also
  If I understand it right, the lists on Hot/Best/Latest Hubs are not people created. (Using some kind of algorythm or such). Not saying that my hubs are great but a few of them score in the nineties on most days. Before I commented and got involved in this messy thread I did a test I think it was on friday night On the Hot hub list from page 1-12 there were 36 "boob" jobs (hubs) present. Some of their hub scores were mainly in the 70's. I went further in my "research" and found my best article, (not naming it as I don't want to self promote) which has 2460+ overall views, and at that time had a hub score of 94, well I found it on page 136...I found one of my hubs on the best list on page 84 that one had a 92 score at the time...If I remember right I came accross a couple of your great hubs there too, on the lower 100's pages . So does that mean that if I were to put together a hub named "How To Make A Sexy boob tassle" would it show up in the first twelve pages? But how informative would that be? You never can tell about peoples tastes. regards Zsuzsy
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  Marisa Wrightposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Well, it depends on HOW you open up HubPages and which areas of the site you look at. It's possible to browse very freely without ever looking at the "Hot Hubs" or "Latest Hubs" sections. So if it's just children looking over their shoulder, that's easy to control - as I say, I never see such Hubs unless I go looking for them!
  
  Now, if it's about the children surfing HubPages on their own - I have no suggestions about that - I don't know whether the appropriate "Nanny" software would block the questionable Hubs or not.
  
  I'm pretty sure Hot Hubs just means the ones that are being viewed most at that time. Best reflects the Hub Score.
  
  Latest is just that - the newest ones, and therefore the most likely to be spam or pornographic, because HubPages hasn't caught them yet.
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wannabwesternposted 15 years ago
23 hours since the last comment! I'm a new hubber, and the horse is frothing and bloody. But here's my quick two cents on the original post.

I agree that the hubs in question are often mistagged. Today (June 18) and over the last few days, I saw the face-sucking thumbnail on the children or family category accessed through the TOPICS link. I have a difficult time understanding how such a hub would fit in this category. Wouldn't "Relationships" be a better fit? If I remember correctly, the hub was about honeymoons. I must confess I was turned off by the pic and didn't read the hub in its entirety. I've written several hubs that might work in the children or family area, but to my knowledge my hubs have not made it to these hot hub pages in those topic categories.

I have written 44 hubs in three months and have just over 3000 page views. I don't feel my hubs are low-quality or overly promotional. I've noticed through the account activity information that the hubs seem to be of interest to a niche audience and I don't really expect a huge readership or fanbase. Nevertheless, a new writer has an interest in being featured within relevant categories, since that allows her to build exposure and a fan base. Presumably the idea behind having these categories is to bring like-minded people together who will be interested in reading each other's hubs and even cross-linking. I am not an expert, but it seems that if someone stumbled across HP on accident and found some reading that was relevant and topical to their interests, that reader would keep reading other similar topics if they were easy to find. I feel that my success here is something that will take a long time, probably, but hoped that the system would work better to bring people together who have similar interest. If HP doesn't do some human monitoring of the mis-tagging issue, then people get frustrated by their content competing with what seems completely unrelated. I see that comment reflected in a lot of the posts on this forum thread.

Every time I publish a new hub I see a warning against publishing content that is misleading. I think that tagging anything sexually-related or adult-oriented is misleading if it includes a "children" or "family" tag. If people are tongue kissing, regardless of gender, that is misleading if it is tagged family or children.

Now I've gone back and looked at the children and family categories through the Hubs and Topics links. I don't see the tongue-kissing hub there any more.

Good night!
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61
PLMposted 15 years ago
Jerry! Jerry! Jerry! <throws chair>
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61
PLMposted 15 years ago
Chair wins!
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1. 59
  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  The chair always wins. I saw it on WWF so it must be true.
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57
webismineposted 15 years ago
Coming here after a long time...Sincere thanks to Maddie and Paul for the clarifications!!
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0
dabblingmumposted 15 years ago
I agree with Bonnie when she said, ""As a community, a website, a service, and a business, I invite you to publish Hubs on topics that are safe for all viewers."

I am really ANNOYED to go to the HOT Hubs and all I see is pages upon pages of stuff that lingers towards porn or adult content without outright being so. Just because they can stay a smidge under the radar doesn't make it something that should be promoted. Just because it draws in money generating keywords shouldn't make it okay to leave it here.

Kids have enough peer pressure and if you think they don't browse the web looking for trouble, you're mistaken. We, as adults, should be the role models regardless of whether we are 18 or 39 or 100 years of age and regardless of whether we believe in a God or not.

People wonder why our kids get worse every year, Look at the crap on t.v., in the magazines, on the Internet. Parents working two and three and four jobs just to make ends meet don't always have the time to monitor or protect their kids--most wish they did, most feel bad enough. We don't have to make it worse by producing crap that can put the wrong thoughts in our kids heads.

Of course, what "Crap" is to one person may not be "crap" to another so please, just use your best judgement. Think about your own kids and what you want for them, or if they are adults, what you wanted for them, or if you don't have kids what you would want for them.

Then stop popularizing these QUESTIONABLE hubs by commenting on them or linking to them.
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65
Bob Ewingposted 15 years ago
One comment i have received from a company that i was going to review in a hub was that their customers might object to some of the material on the hubs. They like my work but were concerned about some of the other hubs.
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  dabblingmumposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Bob that stinks! I wonder if I will run into the same thing.
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In The Doghouseposted 15 years ago
It just seems to be a reoccurring cycle I am afraid!
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63
Mishaposted 15 years ago
Oh, noooooooooooooo, not again!
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1. 58
  jyuvaposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  report
2. 0
  dabblingmumposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Ha, ha. Sorry. I just saw this post. I couldn't resist posting because let's face it...nothing seems to have been done by Hubpages regarding questionable sites.
  report

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