Does "religion" often get in the way of a relationship with Jesus

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notloc27posted 13 years ago
Does the way people view religion often get in the way of a relationship with Jesus??
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  Pratonixposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  A relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ is possible ONLY if a person is born again and indwelt by the Holy Spirit (the Spirit of Christ).
  
  Unfortunately, the sad truth is that many so-called 'Christians' here on HP are NOT born-again, and they do not understand spiritual truths and spiritual realities. They are even too lazy to read the Bible, and they have a shallow sentimental Santa-Claus idea of God (which is an insult to Him!).
  
  For example, it is pointless to defend the Bible. It is true 100%. Only fools find inconsistencies in it; and they do so because of their inherent hatred of God (the carnal mind is hostile to God, Rom 8:7). The Bible is the Word of God. It is inspired by the Spirit of God. It is a Living Book, with living words, words that speak and bring life. Now, only a person who is truly BORN AGAIN and indwelt by the Holy Spirit, can say what I have said just now!
  
  Unfortunately, 'Christians' who are 'Christians' by birth, or by tradition, or by education, or by culture - know very little about a living relationship with the Living God.
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  Pandoras Boxposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It is pointless to defend the Bible. It is true 100%. Only fools find inconsistencies in it; and they do so because of their inherent hatred of God (the carnal mind is hostile to God, Rom 8:7). The Bible is the Word of God. It is inspired by the Spirit of God. It is a Living Book, with living words, words that speak and bring life. Now, only a person who is truly BORN AGAIN and indwelt by the Holy Spirit, can say what I have said just now!
  
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  aka-djposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah!
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  Pandoras Boxposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  
  I'm going back to bed.
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  mom101posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Pratonix. Do you have a Bible near you? I do agree partly to what you wrote, but to call anyone a fool, my friend, is not biblical at all. In my opinion, a true born again christian will not resort to name calling, judging and etc.
  As for the question, Yes, notloc27 religion does get in the way with many peoples relationship with Christ.
  It is so sad.
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  Pratonixposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I used the word 'fool' keeping in mind Psalm 53:1 (The fool has said in his heart, 'There is no God'. Those who say there is no God are fools, in the light of Psalm 53:1.)
  
  Psalm 14:1 also says the same thing: 'The fool has said in his heart, "There is no God."
  
  Both Psalm 14 and Psalm 53 were written by David, a man after God's own heart. The Book of Psalms is the Word of God.
  
  In short, God's word clearly says that unbelievers are fools. Read my post again.
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  Anicholposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  But you aint David so go back and study
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  mom101posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  That was my point. The psalmist David did say that........later on it was God who told us if we should feel the need to call someone a fool to say yea yea or nay nay.
  God does not approve of name calling either. How could I or you either one hope to win someone over by name calling?
  Love. Thats the key.
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  Pratonixposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  So let's ignore the Psalms, because in the Psalms God calls atheists and unbelievers fools!
  
  Some people have a shallow, sloppy conception of love. They are the types who must be praying for Satan himself, that the devil too might be saved. They must be universalists, I guess.
  
  If people don't respect the Word of God (Psalm 14.1, 53.1), and if they don't honor the Scriptures, they'd better not call themselves Christians.
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  mom101posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Fools. Christians. Why do you feel the need to label people.
  If you choose to follow David, the psalmist, that is up to you. God just said dont call anyone a fool. Although, scripture did not elaborate, I have to think He was saying, name calling is not Godly.
  There are several people who do not respect the Word of God. There are plenty of Christians who label themselves Christian ....I can not judge.
  I, myself, am no saint. I have accepted Christ as my Savior, but I prefer not to be labeled as Christian. I am a believer, who quite often needs to reach for His hand.
  Love thy neighbor....There is one thing about it, love, is from the heart, and God is the keeper of the heart, Hate, who rules hate and discontent?
  What is a universalist? Where I come from, it is either believer or non-believer. But I come from a small town. Maybe a little undereducated, just a high-school diploma, been self employed since I was 12. Just an ole country gal.
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  Pratonixposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  "I have accepted Christ as my Savior, but I prefer not to be labeled as Christian."
  
  Isn't that a shame? You don't want to be called a Christian! A Christian is one who follows Christ. You don't want to confess Christ? Christ said, 'Whoever confesses Me before men, him will I confess also before My Father who is in heaven. But whoever shall deny Me before men, him will I also deny before My Father who is in heaven.' Matt 10:32,33.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  So says your nasty petty little god. If you don't believe I will tell daddy!
  Hilarious!
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  mom101posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Pratonix.........I am sorry that you misunderstood.
  Yes, I have accepted Christ, and yes, I do live as best as I can for Him and to tell others about Him. .
  I just dont like labels.
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  notloc27posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.'This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."
  
  Not calling people a fool is not ignoring the Psalms. The Psalms were written to God, not to be used as weapons of insults.
  
  I believe if we all actually followed those two commandments, atheists and unbelievers would have a totally different view of us.
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  schoolgirlforrealposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yes I think religion does sometimes get in the way of a relationship with Christ.
  
  the obvious bickering.....is not really Christlike.
  
  to have a true relationship with Christ, one has to work on it daily.....I'm could be better at it!
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  mom101posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  notloc27....The Psalms, I agree were written from David to God. But God does tell us not to call people fools. We are to love one another.
  I also believe that if we believers and non believers showed more love, a LOT of things would change. (For the better).
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  Pratonixposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  "God does tell us not to call people fools."
  
  How the devil is adept at twisting Scripture! In the New Testament, Sermon on the Mount, Christ says not to call your BROTHER a fool.
  
  According to the Bible (and the Bible is one complete whole, both Old and New Testaments, including the Psalms!), the one who disbelieves God or who says there is no God is a fool.
  
  People who are ignorant of the Bible and think they are 'Christians' are unwise and foolish, and they may be properly called 'fools'.
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  mom101posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  People who think they know the Bible and deny Christianity are unwise and foolish, and therefore may properly be called lost.
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  stoneyyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Pratonixposted 4 days agoin reply to this
  
  I used the word 'fool' keeping in mind Psalm 53:1 (The fool has said in his heart, 'There is no God'. Those who say there is no God are fools, in the light of Psalm 53:1.)
  
  Psalm 14:1 also says the same thing: 'The fool has said in his heart, "There is no God."
  
  Both Psalm 14 and Psalm 53 were written by David, a man after God's own heart. The Book of Psalms is the Word of God.
  
  In short, God's word clearly says that unbelievers are fools. Read my post again. [end]
  
  "God's Word" is the work of a fool and worse, you, for unquestioningly repeating the lies.
  
  I have great fun with this:
  
  The fool has said in his heart, "There is no God, while the wise shout it to the world!"
  
  You have a great insecurity problem with those who aren't superstitious. You might consider exploring why that is.
  
  Your posts read to me that you'd joyously rape, torture, and slaughter if you thought you were instructed to do so.
  
  The strange thing is I have no animosity towards Xians and have no wish to cause them harm. Looks like I 'outchristian' you.
  
  I hadn't intended on making any reply in this thread. I figured reading the interchange between Xians would be interesting.
  
  Xians like you are so full of hate. I pity you.
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  Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Isn't a relationship with Jesus the way Christianity is viewed? Where else but if not the bible would one ever read about Jesus?
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  schoolgirlforrealposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Some people get caught up in 'religion' and lose sight of Christ which is the goal............................
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  Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Aren't they the same thing? How do you get caught up in Christianity without getting caught up in Christ?
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  BDazzlerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I'm assuming this is an actual question, if not... well sorry ...
  
  Imagine say, you're a famous person, say the head of a political party, maybe "the republicrats"....
  
  And let's say you have some really cool ideas that catch on. So the repbulicrat party just takes off like gang busters. And pretty soon, all the people in the party start spinning what you have said to make themselves look good.
  
  Then the republicrat party splits into factions, each one claiming to be truly following what you said.
  
  The problem is that all these different republicrats never took the time to get to know you. They just wanted to use your fame, your ideas and your moral authority to advance their own agenda.
  
  That's how Christianity can get in the way of following Christ.
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  Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Interesting. But, isn't Christianity actually the "really cool ideas" that were presented in the first place? If not, then what are those ideas called now?
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  BDazzlerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Well, that my dear Beelzedad, is indeed the 64 thousand silver piece question ... what exactly is Christianity?
  
  I believe that the point of the OP is that Jesus never intended to start a religion. That was just a side effect. His defining criteria was "By this will all men know you are my disciples, that you love one another as I have loved you." (i.e. a self-sacrificial love)
  
  A disciple (i.e. follower of the discipline) of Christ has been given one sole criteria for identification of how everyone is to know him/her, a sacrificial love for his fellow disciples.
  
  I believe all of Christ's other teachings are to be understood in light of that criteria.
  
  So, when the Baptists hate the Catholics and everybody hates the Mormons etc. etc. I just figure they're all wrong, but that's OK, I am frequently wrong too, so we can all be wrong together.
  
  But as to your question, what is now called Christianity is ideas about the original ideas, or, more accurately traditions about the ideas about the original ideas.
  
  As to what those ideas are called now, well, each tradition claims to be the best tradition about the ideas about the ideas. And that, is how "religion" gets in the way of Jesus.
  
  If Jesus is indeed risen. And if God is indeed present in the person of the Holy Spirit, then we don't need other people's ideas about ideas. We can (and should) discover them for ourselves.
  
  And that journey of discovery is a great deal of fun for me.
  
  Of course, I'm right and everyone else is wrong (kidding) ... On a more serious take on it though, one minor form of sacrificial love an idealist like me can show in every day life is to treat those who I adamantly disagree with with dignity and respect.
  
  It's not easy, and I'm not as good at it as I would like to be. But that, to me, is part of the discipline of being a disciple.
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  Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Well put.
  
  i was driving down the road today and a thought came to mind.
  
  If I was sitting in a seat of high regard.. sitting at the right hand of Christ and I saw a loved one sitting all cramped up at the back of the room. Would I offer to trade places with that loved one???
  
  I think that if I wouldn't be willing to do that, I wouldn't be sitting there in the first place.
  
  What Ya think ??
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  BDazzlerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah, I think that's one of those "the first shall be last" mysteries. Because, you're right, you don't get there unless you're willing to not be there.
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  Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yea if we're not willing to give it up we ain' worthy to have it.
  
  I'm getting too old to live much longer in this oximoron kind of world as ours.
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  BDazzlerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  And yet, ironically, this is the World He loved enough to die for. A man of sorrows, acquainted with grief, despised and rejected, unwelcome in his own group.
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  Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  That wasn't a happy place was it.
  
  Happy with life seems to come and go! Joy IN life seems to stick around till we are dune.
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  BDazzlerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yep!
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  Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Then, if his ideas were not meant to start a religion, Christianity is little more than the organization others started to support their own agendas. Further to that, those very same people would have also used this agenda to create a god for themselves, when all the while Christ was nothing more than just a man who came up with some new ideas.
  
  Notice that you're line of reasoning follows the organization created and not the cool ideas of a mortal man.
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  BDazzlerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Well, I don't believe Him to be mortal, and his ideas are just one part of Him, and that's the point ... but besides that ... I thought I explained that the traditions I follow are of course the closest to the actual teachings of the Master.
  
  Your observation about all the other traditions support their own agendas, is, of course, entirely accurate.
  
  Kidding obviously. But that's why I can say with absolute confidence ... there are things I just don't know.
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  Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hence, you are following the followers who have used his ideas to create their own agendas, by your very own line of reasoning.
  
  Can we then conclude that the Christ (if he existed) was in fact just a mortal man with cool ideas and others have raised his status to godlike characteristics? I see no problem with this conclusion as it does not defeat or refute his cool ideas, which if I'm reading you right, is at the very crux of your beliefs.
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  BDazzlerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You may conclude that and I will respectfully disagree with the specifics of the conclusion. But even though I disagree with your conclusions, I assure you it is with utmost respect for your intent of integrity and intellectual honesty.
  
  I think, BTW, I may have presented it in such a way that you have my beliefs backwards.
  
  I believe in the Christ more than I believe in the ideas. The fact that I have to work through the ideas to get to the Christ is part of the adventure.
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  Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I would suggest that is putting the cart before the horse, so to speak. Again, it appears as if you're following the agendas of others before you actually even entertain the cool ideas of Christ.
  
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  BDazzlerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  If that's how you perceive it, then that is your take it, it seems respectful and honest, and I accept it as such. I just don't see it that way ... I have no agenda to convince anybody that I'm right. Welll not on this topic anyway. I just tell it like I think I see it.
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  Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry, it isn't how I've perceived it at all, it is exactly your own words.
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  BDazzlerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Then I'm sorry I did not communicate more clearly.
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  Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It was crystal clear, thanks.
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  stoneyyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I enjoy your sense of humour and approach to your religion as it concerns others.
  
  Kind Regards
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  stoneyyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  BDazzlerposted 4 days agoin reply to this
  
  Well, that my dear Beelzedad, is indeed the 64 thousand silver piece question ... what exactly is Christianity?
  
  I believe that the point of the OP is that Jesus never intended to start a religion. [end]
  
  Christianity is better described as 'Paulinity' as he was the driver behind it as an ex-priest of Mithra (I think it was}.
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  stoneyyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Beelzedadposted 4 days agoin reply to this
  
  Interesting. But, isn't Christianity actually the "really cool ideas" that were presented in the first place? If not, then what are those ideas called now?
  
  Sadly, the vast majority of the 'ideas' and 'stories' were stolen by the Xians who have a 'Commandment' against theft.
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  Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I missed seeing this yesterday..
  
  Best explination that I've seen in a long time.
  
  Thing is ... Scripture prophesies that this will come to pass.
  
  This is what Rev. 13 speaks of.
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  BDazzlerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yep! Good morning, BTW!
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  stilljustwonderinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yes it does. That is what Jesus had against the Pharasses. They held to the letter of the law and traditions of man. They did not look into the heart of man. They considered Jesus a sinner because he healed on the Sabbath.
  That's a good work. They exaulted them selves before others. They were a "show", but their hearts were hard.
  I have been preached to that I was going to hell because I wear make up, I wear pants, and I trim my hair. What?? No, the Lord knows what is in my heart.
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  stoneyyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  "stilljustwonderinposted 4 days agoin reply to this
  
  Yes it does. That is what Jesus had against the Pharasses. They held to the letter of the law and traditions of man. They did not look into the heart of man. They considered Jesus a sinner because he healed on the Sabbath."
  
  Healing on the Sabbath is work. The level of work which merits a death sentence is that of picking up sticks.
  
  "That's a good work. They exaulted them selves before others. They were a "show", but their hearts were hard."
  
  That's the vast majority of Xians of which Pratonix is a grand example.
  
  "I have been preached to that I was going to hell because I wear make up, I wear pants, and I trim my hair. What?? No, the Lord knows what is in my heart."
  
  Each Xian 'rolls their own God.' Interesting how God likes what they like and doesn't like what they don't.
  
  Wearing make-up, pants, and trimming your hair doesn't mean you aren't a fine human being. To me, that is what is important and not stance towards or brand/sect of a particular religion.
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  stilljustwonderinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Stoney posted
  
  (Healing on the Sabbath is work. The level of work which merits a death sentence is that of picking up sticks.)
  
  The letter of the law.
  Can we not help some one because of what day it is?
  That would be pretty heartless.
  
  (That's the vast majority of Xians of which Pratonix is a grand example.)
  
  I'm not going to call names, but certain people did come to mind.
  
  (Each Xian 'rolls their own God.' Interesting how God likes what they like and doesn't like what they don't.)
  
  I think the thing is, we each go by the way we comprehend what we read.
  I know, we are not suppose to go by our own understanding. But, we do.
  
  The traditions of Man.
  "Some" will pick and choose scripture. For instance the sermon about women cutting their hair. Right below the scripture that was used during the service it said "If there be any contention among you there is no such custom in the church of God." Another words, Don't argue about it. It really doesn't matter.
  
  Look into the heart of man.
  (Wearing make-up, pants, and trimming your hair doesn't mean you aren't a fine human being. To me, that is what is important and not stance towards or brand/sect of a particular religion)
  You got it.
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  stoneyyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Stoney posted
  
  (Healing on the Sabbath is work. The level of work which merits a death sentence is that of picking up sticks.)
  
  sjw;
  The letter of the law.
  Can we not help some one because of what day it is? That would be pretty heartless.
  
  No, you can't help someone because of what day it is. God's Word[tm] so states. Yes, its pretty heartless-but that's God, and therefore good, just, loving, etc..
  
  Torture for anything, much less eternal torture from having no option other than to follow a script is also heartless, but since its God, its good.
  
  stoney
  (Each Xian 'rolls their own God.' Interesting how God likes what they like and doesn't like what they don't.)
  
  sjw;
  I think the thing is, we each go by the way we comprehend what we read.
  I know, we are not suppose to go by our own understanding. But, we do.
  
  There's nothing else a person can do! Even a human 5 year old is aware of the problems when 'God scrambled the languages.'
  
  God still hasn't provided an intelligent update. As the speaker, the responsibility for the communication lies upon him or her.
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  stilljustwonderinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  (No, you can't help someone because of what day it is. God's Word[tm] so states. Yes, its pretty heartless-but that's God, and therefore good, just, loving, etc..)
  
  The letter of the law. That's what Jesus had against the Pharasses and the Scribes. They didn't look into a mans heart.
  
  (Torture for anything, much less eternal torture from having no option other than to follow a script is also heartless, but since its God, its good.)
  
  I have often thought about that. God is our Father. As a parent, no matter how angry and frustrated I get with my kids, I always want the best for them. There isn't anything they could do to lose my love. So how could this be? Then a thought came to my mind. When Jesus returns, every one will see him. The Bible says every knee shall bow, every tongue confess, that Jesus is Lord.
  I know you don't believe any of this, but, if you look up one day and you see Jesus with your own eyes, will you believe then?
  
  I have felt the most intense love pour over me. All he really asks of us is to love him. I know you can't feel love for some thing you don't believe in, if you see him, will you believe?
  And to love one another. That isn't difficult.
  
  That's my thoughts anyway. I am sure both believers and non believers will argue with me. But, if we "see" him, and believe, then he looks into our hearts and sees goodness and love?
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  exorterposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  you tell them sis
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  The fact that you don't know to look at yourself is appalling.
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  stilljustwonderinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I have examined my self. I pretty much like what I see.
  
  The fact that you don't know to look at yourself is appalling. lol
  A personal attack? I didn't attack you. I was in a discussion with Stoney.
  We had agreed that we could discuss, maturely.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Sure am glad your god does not exist becoz he loves me so much he is going to torture me eternally.
  
  What an obnoxious belief system. What do you do to your children to show them how much the you love them? Cut off their fingers or something?
  
  Your delusions are just that - delusions. Nothing more - although it does speak to your inner person when you think eternal torture is "good" because god does it.
  
  The idea that Jesus is coming back is so laughable that I almost feel sorry for you. My knee will not bow to anyone without an application of force. Glad you like what you see, because it makes me feel very, very glad that I do not think the way you do.
  
  Are you hoping Jesus comes back soon as well? So you can see the unbelievers forced to their knees by the loving god who will eternally torture them for not believing this rubbish?
  
  Fortunately - I know that the bible you quote from is about as far as it is possible to get from what was actually written so I am not really concerned. It is a shame that so many people like yourself continue to spread the threats and ill will. The real shame is that you think this is being "loving."
  
  Hmm hmm - good christian lovin' at the point of a gun.
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  stilljustwonderinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I don't believe I have threatened any one.
  
  My husband liked visiting this one church where his cousin was the preacher. Every time we were there the sermon was about women who cut, even just trim their hair, wear make up and wear pants will go to hell. I was the only woman in there who did, so I figure the sermon was directed to me. I didn't knock them over their belief. I didn't call them ridiculious, delusional, obnoxious, ignorant, hateful, or any such thing. I didn't feel threatened by their belief.
  Simply because I believe God will be looking into my heart, not at my appearance.
  
  I believe in God, in Jesus. You don't. We each have that right. I do not attack your unbelief and your attacks on my belief will not change my heart.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  The fact that you choose to ignore one instruction from god because you decided it does not apply in your special case and god will give you a free pass - and then remind us that this self same god will eternally torture people for another transgression against his loving word is just typical of your belief system.
  
  If you had the decency to keep your ridiculous beliefs to yourself - we would not even be having this conversation. All the time you choose to share whatever nonsense you believe - there will be those of us who tell you how silly it is. There is a simple solution to this problem.
  
  I certainly do not feel threatened by your beliefs - well - no more so than by anyone else who tells me they have a voice in their head telling them what to do.
  
  But - I am cognizant of the damage people who share your beliefs have done in the past, and the damage they still do - and hope that one day we eventually get to the point where people no longer do the things the voices in their head tells them and stop spreading this nonsense.
  
  Your choice really.
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  4wardthinkerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hmm??? I always thought it was a feeling in your heart and not a thought in your head that is the best of a relationship that has any kind of depth to it. Do you have a heart condition?
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  Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  The heart pumps blood and not much more. You have to use your brain in order to process those feelings.
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  4wardthinkerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Oh really? Thanks for letting me know. How do I put one foot in front of the other. I need your help Mr. Oz?
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  stilljustwonderinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  (and then remind us that this self same god will eternally torture people for another transgression against his loving word is just typical of your belief system.)
  Have I ever told you that you were going to be tortured? I don't think so. As a matter of fact I have told other Christians that it is not our place to judge.
  
  (f you had the decency to keep your ridiculous beliefs to yourself - we would not even be having this conversation.)
  I wasn't speaking to you. I can however speak of my believes with other believers. I don't make you read my post. If you would like to back up and read, I was speaking to some one who doesn't believe, how ever, we did speak of "exploratory" discussions in a mature fashion. I wasn't forcing my belief on any one.
  
  (I certainly do not feel threatened by your beliefs - well - no more so than by anyone else who tells me they have a voice in their head telling them what to do.)
  Good, I never had any intent of threatening you. You began this conversation, not me.
  
  (But - I am cognizant of the damage people who share your beliefs have done in the past, and the damage they still do)
  My belief, love one another , forgiveness, don't judge others. I am sorry you find that damageing.
  
  (stop spreading this nonsense. )
  Just don't read the post of some one you know is a believer. It's that simple. No one is making you. We have just as much right to talk among our selves as you do. I do not start a conversation of faith with some one who doesn't want to hear it.
  
  I do not jump in the middle of a conversation between non believers and tell them they are ridiculious, ignorant, foolish, full of nonsense. We are all entitled to our beliefs. Please respect that.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I absolutely respect that. 100% - I respect your entitlement to believe anything you like. I am also entitled to express my opinion of those beliefs - am I not?
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  choppieposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Mark, you are right. However this is not a forced conversation, and we are listening to your beliefs as well. You are certainly entitled to believe in God or not. You know about Him apparently, and have made your choice. Okay. So why continue to try to convert us, I know I will not convert you and I will not try. So, thank you for your opinion, I think we have the picture.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Odd. You are the one with a belief. I just don't believe there is a voice in your head telling you what to do. Sorry. I think you are making this up in order to be able to lecture other people what is going to happen to them if they don't do what you say.
  
  I do believe it is nonsense - this eternal torture for those of us who use our brains. I also believe that people who think this is "love" are sick and need help. I am trying to help you to break the delusion and stop spreading the ill will your religion generates. Please read a history book or two (make sure they are not printed in Texas - history runs a little differently in Texas).
  
  I am not trying to convert you. I understand the need this fulfills in you. I am just trying to help you to understand that - this is in your head only - not reality. You can still believe all you like - just remember - it is not real to anyone but you.
  
  Think of me as a public service.
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  Anicholposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Your comments Mark are only to serve yourself.
  Makes you feel superior right?
  You do know best obviously.
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  stoneyyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  stoney;
  (No, you can't help someone because of what day it is. God's Word[tm] so states. Yes, its pretty heartless-but that's God, and therefore good, just, loving, etc..)
  
  sjw;
  The letter of the law. That's what Jesus had against the Pharasses and the Scribes. They didn't look into a mans heart.
  
  [The Abrahamic world of the Bible is a binary one. It is either this, or that. There is no inbetween-as 'Jesus' so states. All OT and NT directives [as contradictory as they are} remain in force-again as directly stated.}
  
  stoney;
  (Torture for anything, much less eternal torture from having no option other than to follow a script is also heartless, but since its God, its good.)
  
  sjw;
  I have often thought about that. God is our Father. As a parent, no matter how angry and frustrated I get with my kids, I always want the best for them. There isn't anything they could do to lose my love. So how could this be?
  
  [Again, torture-much less eternal torture-for scripted sins only are considered 'good' because 'God' is the actor. Bronze-age might makes right.
  
  What kind of 'parent' subjects their 'children' to such horrors then claims to 'love' them? With 'God' such eternal tortures are the 'best for them.' If that is the 'best' no one needs to see the worst.
  
  This is the point you're refusing to examine.]
  
  sjw;
  Then a thought came to my mind. When Jesus returns, every one will see him. The Bible says every knee shall bow, every tongue confess, that Jesus is Lord.
  
  [This is the same book which contains grievous simple errors. Bats aren't birds. Rabbits don't chew their cud. Pi does not equal 3. A man cannot be swallowed by a whale much less than live in the belly for three days. Torture, much eternal torture has zero relation to anything positive.]
  
  sjw;
  I know you don't believe any of this, but, if you look up one day and you see Jesus with your own eyes, will you believe then?
  
  [That can't happen in reality. I'm not a child. Imaginary friends are a part of growing up. I left such behind long long ago. Religionists [not all inclusive] are the problem. They are not the solution, and with our technological prowess such childishness is going to obliterate us all.]
  
  sjw;
  I have felt the most intense love pour over me. All he really asks of us is to love him. I know you can't feel love for some thing you don't believe in, if you see him, will you believe?
  And to love one another. That isn't difficult.
  
  [Rampaging hormones hit everyone from time to time. Osama Bin Laden is as a kindly kindergarten teacher handing out fresh cookies when compared to the Xian daemon deity construct. 'Jesus' wasn't white. "His' visage would have been middle eastern.]
  
  sjw;
  That's my thoughts anyway. I am sure both believers and non believers will argue with me. But, if we "see" him, and believe, then he looks into our hearts and sees goodness and love?
  
  [Fantasy figures act as the individual desires. Its clear such helps you make it through life, and that's great.]
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  stilljustwonderinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  (This is the point you're refusing to examine.)
  I have examined it. It troubled me. I told you what I thought. How I think it may all play out. I hope so. I don't wish anything bad on any one.
  
  You think it is all imaginary, fantasy. But, if Christians are right, and you see him with your own eyes, you just may change your mind.
  
  I don't believe our faith is going to obliterate us. The human race is doing that. Wars, greed, the destruction of our planet.
  
  Yes, your right. I have said for a long time that Jesus wasn't white.
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  stoneyyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Fair enough. It looked to me that you were keeping the point at a hefty difference-and it still looks that way to me. You've indicated such isn't the case and I'll accept that.
  
  That Christianity is all imaginary, fantasy is objective fact. As for the 'if' aspect there are myriad older religions saying the same thing about you. And, they too, promise dire eternal consequences for not worshiping them.
  
  Religious faith is going to obliterate us. The 'End Times' drivel, remember?
  
  I didn't know you've been indicating Jesus wasn't white. I haven't been here long.
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  stilljustwonderinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Ok, I will see if I can explain it better. I kinda look at my relationship with God as a Father and daughter. I'm a parent. Yeah, some times I have practiced tough love, but not to that extreme. That did bother me, and I thought on it quite a bit.
  Ok, if I believe that one day we will all see Jesus, then I believe we will all believe in him. Happy Ending. Sorry, I really don't know how to explain. I'm not really very articulate.
  There are some really hard , cold hearted people in this world. People who don't have love for any one. Those people just may not have a happy ending, I don't know, not mine to judge, their heart may change. Ya see, I believe love, what is in your heart, is what will be judged.
  
  End times? I believe will be man's doing. Wars. Man's greed over land disputes, oil rights. Yes, some of it is a religious battle, but not all of it.
  
  What is happening to our planet? Earthquakes.
  Those are happening every day. Of course they don't make the news unless it is a major earthquake, on land, with damage. Haiti's earthquake shook the earth a little off it's axis. There has been more of that size since then. More frequently in the ocean, where it doesn't get reported on the news. What are all these earthquakes doing to our planet? Volcano's. Drought. Floods. Disease.
  
  Yes, there is other faiths that believe as strongly as I do. They believe they are right. We each have to follow what we believe.
  
  I'm sorry. No, the subject of the color of Jesus's skin hasn't come up on here. Not that I am aware of. Of course you didn't know that I have had that discussion with friends and family. Shall we pass that off as a "blonde moment"?
  No offense to blondes, I'm one too.
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  Cedar Cove Farmposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  In short, I say yes. Sometimes dogma interferes. That being said, we need to have a deep understanding of scripture, to show ourselves approved. But often, people worship the rules rather than the ruler.
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  Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  That's the right idea!
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  getitriteposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  
  Why would anyone want to have a relationship with an alleged person, who is long dead? Pretending to have a relationship with a person who has passed on is a serious psychosis.
  
  Jesus is dead. That's what gets in the way of having a relationship with him.
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  stoneyyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  If the character ever existed in the first place. If he did it wouldn't be with any magic powers.
  
  Yeah, such pretending is a serious psychosis, but in a few cases it can be a harmless one.
  
  Sadly, these stone and bronze age hogwash permeate the US during the space age no less.
  
  Often I feel like a cultural anthropologist amongst bronze age folk as they're prattling about 'Santa Claus' as if He really really does deliver toys to all the good girls and boys.
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Joined just to throw stones huh!
  
  Wonder which one of our resident Satan whisperers you are really?
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  stoneyyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Way to go, oh follower of Satan! The only lies are yours, coward.
  
  How about being daring and [gasp] address points raised by others?
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I do address others points, even though normally I only get inane and scurrilous remarks back, like yours just were.
  
  Coward? How am I a coward? please define.
  
  John
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  stoneyyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Because you don't address the points others have made and continue to unrepentantly repeat the same false witness.
  
  How about being daring and addressing the points raised in prior posts?
  
  You describe your posts well as inane.
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Just more blather from you.....
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  stoneyyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Projection noted. What is it with Xians and their rampant false witness and cowardice?
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  Bob Vince Jrposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Religion defiantly gets in the way of any relationship with Jesus because most religious practices have been tainted from the early days of its growth.
  Simply put Jesus didn't come here to start a new religion He came to fulfill prophesies about him and change how people treat each other. He gave us instruction on how to love all people and that all people are our neighbors. He proved that with the stories of the Samaritans who in Jesus' day was not to be associated with by any Jew. The story of the woman at Jacobs well proves his point.
  
  TO answer getitrite's post that Jesus is dead, it's Jesus' death that we are redeemed and become sinless in the eyes of God. Have you lost someone in your life and still think of that person and love that person even though they are dead? If so don't that make them alive in your memories?
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  getitriteposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  
  But how can I have memories of Jesus? I didn't know him when he was alive. We don't even know if he was real. Why should I accept the lie that Jesus died for me? Just because someone in authority said it?
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  No! The Church has already made it virtually impossible for people(the average person) to understand the true message. People have been given pieces and made to make a leap of faith.
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  But that is exactly the point, God does require that 'leap of faith' from a person, He requires that we step out into the unknown (and possibly incomprehensible) to reach Him, and once someone makes the leap, He catches them, guides them and guards them.
  
  Faith is the belief in the unknown things.
  
  Even if the world had eternity to discover the secrets of God, we could never know everything, so seeking to only believe what can be proven is futility.
  
  If someone had told a scientist 200 years ago that they believed than man could speak into a box the size of a small potato and communicate with someone on the other side of the world, the scientist may have reserved judgement, but he would not have accepted it as fact or possible, yet we do that daily with our cell phones, and think nothing of it.
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  Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Seems more like the belief in the invisible.
  
  If someone told a believer 300 years ago that "man could speak into a box the size of a small potato and communicate with someone on the other side of the world" they would be burned at the stake as a witch.
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  pisean282311posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  satan invents , god made perfect world..no need for invention
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  Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I think that is called shifting the burden of responsibility to a third party, falsely, and in both cases.
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  pisean282311posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  ..quiet right and bingo...
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  BDazzlerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah ... I don't believe in air, in cells, in molecules, in atoms or electrons or protons or ANYTHING like that. Invisible means non-existent. Yeah!
  
  Of course ...
  
  You are paraphrasing part of Hebrews 11:1:
  "Now faith is being ... certain of what we do not see."
  
  So, yeah, sarcasm aside, you called it dead on. Faith is belief in the invisible.
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  Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Two in one day! Where's my calendar?
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  srwnsonposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I think people are often confusing faith and belief. A belief is something that you can prove is true. I believe the wind exists, I believe there are other planets besides those in our solar system.
  Faith is something you believe is true but can't prove.
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  Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  "I have faith the the sun will come up tomorrow morning."
  
  This kind of faith is based on evidence.
  
  "I believe in a god"
  
  This kind of belief is not based on evidence.
  
  Notice that whether you use the word 'faith or belief' there is the need to follow up with evidence, and that is where the confusion lies.
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  srwnsonposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I agree to disagree, you have faith the sun will come up, but faith is'nt necessary because you've seen it with your own eyes. You believe it will and we have hope that belief is true. I believe in God is actually faith because of the reason you describe, no evidence.
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  Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  That is why the definitions of 'faith and belief' can both be used with our without the need for evidence.
  
  It is also the reason why the term 'blind faith' exists.
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  srwnsonposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Very true, and keep in mind it's only my opinion that faith cannot be confused with truth becuse it is a hope for things not seen, yet a belief is an assumed truth that may be proven an error.
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  stoneyyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Creator deities self-destruct due to their own broken logic. This doesn't stop believers as facts don't enter their universe.
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  cosetteposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  
  no. organized religion (Catholic) is what introduced me to Jesus in the first place. even though i am not a practitioner, i still have feelings of love for Jesus even though he may have been just a very charismatic, amazing young man and not the son of God. to me he will always be 'the good shepherd'.
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  Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  AMEN belief in its purest form.
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  dutchman1951posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Religion should not get in the way of a relationship with Jesus, if anything it should be leading you deeper into the relationship. assisting where it can and encouraging you in that relationship. It should be teaching, leading, helping, but never hindering.
  
  If it is hindering that relationship, than it is not religion, it is a just a gathering at best, or a cult at worst.
  
  Remember, You are responsible for your own salvation, no one or no religion is, you are! So ask, seek and get answers. If the Group, Church, or Religious Belief you belong to is not doing this (Leading, teaching, helping, encouraging) then something is wrong. Never follow blindly, always question, Jesus told us this, Ask him, he will answer.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Dead men tell no lies.
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  Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Marco... Polo... Marco... Polo... Is there anybody out there?
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Joy56posted 13 years ago
sadly i think so. The bible, and the writings about Jesus, are there for all to read, regardless of what religion we are.

Religions i believe were only ever formed for a purpose. I.E. to let others know about the promises the bible holds for the future.

As with everything, religion can sometimes become or try to become bigger than gods word the bible. Some religions even dispute Jesus existed.
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  notloc27posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah I think you are dead on.
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  Joy56posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  thanks, i think we should read our bibles more, and don't get too bogged down with what religious say
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  ceciliabeltranposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  i think the worst thing that happened to Jesus was when he became romanized into the son of god. Seriously.
  
  As a human, he is pretty AMAZING. As a son of god...err. Well, ofcourse he's the Son of G-d right?
  
  I personally feel his divinity more when I read his words as a human being.
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  klarawieckposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  We are all the Sons and Daughters of God. He was just an extremely evolved soul.. a spiritual Master, like Buddah, Ghandi, The Dhali Lama.
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  brotheryochananposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  We are all the creations of God. But son and daughtership has to be earned and by earned i mean, to be part of the family, as in every family, there are rules. People who don't go by the rules, don't partake of the family. This extremely evolved soul as you put it, mentioned some very definite ways to get to God and how to stay connected to God. Jesus was nothing like those other people, any of those, do miracles and heal in abundance. Did god ever call them "A son". NO. Goodness is only part of the way, we can do no good works to appease god. We must know God in order to be part of the family of god. Jesus knew God.
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  stoneyyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Drool drool drool
  
  We are all the creations of Tamat the Dragon
  
  We are all the creations of Ra
  
  We must know Ra in order to be part of the family of Ra
  
  We are all the creations of Odin All-Father
  
  We must know Odin All-Father in order to be part of the family of Odin All-Father
  
  We are all the creations of Santa Claus
  
  We must know Santa Claus in order to be part of the family of Santa Claus
  
  We are all the creations of sldkfaj;ldka
  
  We must know sldkfaj;ldkain order to be part of the family of sldkfaj;ldka
  
  Too bad you're too cowardly, and dishonest, to address the points raised.
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aka-djposted 13 years ago
Way too many people confuse religion, with relationship.
You tell people you believe in, and have a relationship with, Jesus, and straight away you get tagged "religious".
Happens here ALL the time.
I don't even like to say I'm a Christian, because, now, somehow I carry all the blame for what "religion" has done over the centuries. I am a warmonger, child molester and Bible basher, as a result. I'd say it gets in the way alright.
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  Joy56posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  maybe we should change the name religion, for believer....... or some other more fitting name.,
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  luvpassionposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Interesting idea Joy; however perhaps it would be better to simply ignore the blame that others throw your way...WHO CARES what they say?
  
  You have a relationship with Christ, thats good for you, you can tell other people...if they don't want to hear it, they'll let you know.
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  stoneyyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  How about having the courtesy to keep the drivel to yourselves in the first place when you know your audience doesn't all share your delusions?
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  luvpassionposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I don't have any courtesy so bite me sockpuppet that writes like Mr. Knowles.
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  stoneyyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Piss off, biatch. At least you admit you lack any courtesy. You get one point for that. Ah, that patented Xian love. You follow your father, Satan, well.
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  Bob Vince Jrposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Joy56 Jesus Himself gave us the title we should be using when He said go and make DISCIPLES of all nations. So those that believe in Him are His Disciples and that could be anyone in any part of this world.
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  stoneyyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Mental toddler fits.
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  Pandoras Boxposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Bible-thumper, oh gullible one. I am a bible-basher, or have been, you are a would-be bible-thumper. Your 'relationship' with 'jesus' comes straight from religion. One might argue -and many have- that it is in fact the very essence of that religion.
  
  Pretending you're not religious since you either A) reject certain aspects of your particular religion or B) simply don't follow any of the rules of your religion is disingenuous, but shoot, after all, you did call yerself a bible-basher and yet you do believe in a nearly 2000 year old myth, so mebbe I'm giving you too much credit.
  
  Yeh you threw out the law, big deal. Now yer all modern and you've gone and thrown out ritual, good for you, yer making progress. But until you let go of the delusion itself you're still religious.
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Unchained Graceposted 13 years ago
Religion is a manmade response to a spiritual issue. We, as humans, attempt to 'naturalize' the spiritual in a way we understand and therefore spew forth a multitude of doctrine we dogmatically attach ourselves to.

There is one Bible and yet how many denominations have been created under that one Bible? It all comes down to doctrine which translates to how one group interprets it. With all these denominations, how could there be that many interpretations unless each group put their own twist on things to suit their own agenda?

That, in itself, is an agenda outside of God, so until we rid ourselves of our own personal agendas and manmade traditions, we shall see a self-distorted view of God's Word and a less than satisfactory relationship with Him
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  Joy56posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  so how can we help to make that happen
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  mom101posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  UG So true and so true. I had made the decision to join a particular church, only to be told in order for me to join their church I would have to attend a class with the pastor to go over with their doctrine. At this class, I was instructed on what I could and could not do. CLUE number 1.......This is man made doctrine. I as a believer, am in no way obligated to follow any man made doctrine.
  I grew up in a big family where most of the men were pastors/preachers/deacons, and I was raised baptist. For years, I called myself a christian, UNTIL I discovered I CAN have a relationship with Christ.........If religion is all that one has, they are headed south.
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  Bubbooposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  AMEN!
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  Unchained Graceposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  When you were given the choice of attending this class, it should've been a clear sign from the Holy Ghost to roll on out. You are correct is tating it was the attempt to introduce their 'doctrine' which is just a translation of,"If you want to join our church, this is what you must believe, do and act." Drop it like it's hot and move on. You can indeed have a wonderful relationship with God sans mankind's self-styled dogma. It is actually what the Apostle Paul spoke of to the Church of Corinth. Always remember this one thing: "Doctrine is man's way to attempt to conform God's Word to their own agenda." It's that simple.
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  mom101posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  UG thank you. From the time we start school, forward, we are taught to conform to something. The statement separation of church and state is just about as bogus as a 2 bill.
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  stoneyyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Cool! Then you'll understand why, and have no problem with, those of other superstitions who utilize the tools of the Holy Inquisition to 'save your soul[tm].'
  
  The US is not a theocracy. If you yearn for one, there are many in the 'garden spots' of the Middle East for you to choose from.
  
  Good Voyage. Bye bye. {waving goodbye as you sail away}.
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  stoneyyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  What dressing would you like on your word salad?
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wilmiers77posted 13 years ago
Rules such as don't drink any alcohol or you will go to hell is man made as you have stated. They distract from the real spirit of Christ Jesus. Any person can read the bible and read that Jesus dranked alcohol moderately. Where does this leave the donomination teaching such? Unbelieveable. The true Spirit of Jesus must be found by each individual in their heart. Everything else is a guide.
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earnestshubposted 13 years ago
What is a belief in jesus if not a religion???
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  aka-djposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hey ernie.
  I thought you knew the answer to this one?
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I know what religion jesus was supposed to be, but as the only mention of jesus comes from a religious tome with no other source than the other crud in the quoran, how would anyone know about him and the ghost and the fairy from another source?
  
  Like little red riding hood, only one fairytale, no one else wrote about her either.
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  aka-djposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  What "religion" WAS He?
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You don't know???? He was Jewish of course!
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  aka-djposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Was that His religion? Or was that His nationality? Or was that His culture?
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  He was Jewish. unless you follow the beliefs of Benjamin H. Freedman he followed the way of the Jewish religion.
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  Rod Marsdenposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  When you are right earnest you are right!
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  Pratonixposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  "When you are right earnest you are right!"
  
  Hitler was 'right earnest' in killing Jews, Stalin was 'right earnest' in massacring his own people, Mao and Pol Pot and Idi Amin and other dictators did their crimes in 'right earnest'. So by your definition, are they right?
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  Rod Marsdenposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Do some research Pratonix. Jesus was born into a Jewish family. He was raised as a Jew. Even the very idea of him being a messiah is Jewish. Nothing wrong with any of that. Even the very name Jesus is Jewish. Whether he ever saw himself as anything but a devout Jew in his lifetime is doubtful and that is okay too.
  
  So you think Hitler was right in killing the Jews, Pratonix? I cannot see the connection between Jesus being a Jew and it being all right to kill millions of Jews many centuries later. Stalin was bad news and what he did had nothing to do with either the Jewish faith or Christianity. Mao and Pol Pot and Idi Amin had nothing to do with the Jewish religion and I doubt if they had anything to do with Christianity.
  
  I doubt if many people would see earnest as a dictator. I don't follow him. I just agree with him that, as far as Jesus being a Jew is concerned, he has his facts right. I doubt if earnest has any plans for world domination or mass murder.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  What in all hell has this to do with what religion jesus was supposed to have followed?
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  Rod Marsdenposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I have no idea what Pratonix is really on about, earnest.
  
  Apparently if I say someone is right then there is this strange carry-on about accusing someone, anyone of being right. I don't understand it myself.
  
  I just agree with you that Jesus was Jewish and there is enough evidence that he indeed followed the Jewish faith. In my book the religion Jesus followed was the Jewish religion.
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  stoneyyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Divine Plan and Greater Good. Remember?
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  Bubbooposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  What is a belief in jesus if not a religion???
  
  It is a personal relationship with Him. It is not a religion based on rules and regulations. That would be churchianity not Christianity.
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  stoneyyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Having 'personal relationships' with non-existent entities is a mental illness.
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sandieganlizposted 13 years ago
I have to agree that if it wasn't for religion, many probably wouldn't follow Jesus, or have known about Him...but, his legendary existence was/is so great, that he is a Messiah to many. I mean, it is a good thing his words and deeds were recorded, along with the other Prophets because it shows a wise, truthful, spiritual sense...almost like a source of magic!

Religion appears to have started like different cultures and races--we all started as one, and then we spread out. We went different ways, interpreted different measures, and lived differently to the point where we simply became different to one another. Different religions formed due to different interpretations and time-of-events, as well as due to different people.

How else can one explain religion but by stating it is a conformity to believe in the same thing--whether it be fact, fiction, or familiar!

My take, anyway.
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Rod Marsdenposted 13 years ago
Christianity was imposed upon the majority of the people of England not to mention the majority of the people in other parts of Europe so that order in Europe could be re-established in medieval times along religious grounds. The idea was one religion uniting all. It wasn't a new idea. The Romans tried it more than once. Christianity was their second go at making the one religion notion work. Even so, the papacy and the Holy Roman Emperor in medieval times tried to make Christianity appealing in a number of new ways. For example in order to marry your daughter or your son off to European nobility it became a thing that they had to be Christian and without the protection of such alliances it came to pass that no kingdom could feel safe. Excommunication was the biggest weapon the pope had.

In modern times Christianity is much splintered and there are a great many ways in which to believe in Christ and they are not all compatible. Basically pick the one you like and go for it. Sometimes I wonder what the world would be like if Christianity hadn't been forced onto so many different people over the centuries.

What has all this to do with Jesus or Christ? Who knows? Probably very little and the truth of just how little is hidden from us by the centuries.
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srwnsonposted 13 years ago
As a long-haul truck driver, it is difficult for me to maintain a relationship with any particular church. I sometimes find myself in desolate parts of the country, the mountains and forests of the Northwest. The deserts and open highways. At night I'll be stoped at a Pilot, Flying J or simply a roadside rest area. At these times when I am far away from home, I feel closer to Christ. Sometimes such solitude is what's required to form a personal relationship with him.
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Etherealenigmaposted 13 years ago
So many people get caught up in a superiority complex once they get a handle on the truth, or even a truth, that they make it near impossible for others to follow because of their arrogance.

I'm a strong believer in educating people, but you don't lead by force, but by example; and you can't shove your opinions, religious or otherwise, down anyone's throat. Just because someone disagrees with the Christian point of view is no reason to get into a heated debate and argument to prove the "rightness" of your position.

Having zeal does not encompass this sort of forced education on the public at large, and also does not include subtle agendas either.

That is, in large part, the problem with many who call themselves "Christian." I found this to be true with someone I addressed for the first time here in hubpages.

She was so self-righteous and caught up in her religious beliefs that she couldn't see beyond her own opinions - exactly how offensive she was being to everyone else, even those who agreed in part with her.

She did not attempt to foster or even establish relationships, but instead, used her extremely slight knowledge of "religion" as a bashing tool against the masses.

I say "slight" because it was very clear from her responses that all of her opinions were from the shallow end of the pool of biblical knowledge, gained only by sitting up under a preacher, but not via any indepth self study. Her attitude alone demonstrated that clearly.

Her arrogance turned any valid point she made moot, and destroyed her credibility, because she failed to demonstrate love, even to those who agreed with her in part. She could not simply agree to disagree without a heated debate over right and wrong, and debating with people does not win them to Christ.

I was very turned off with her attitude and approach, so I know that the unsaved would be as well. It didn't matter how much anyone attempted to reach out and gently reason with her. She was staunch in her view and unbending, and actually downright rude. No wonder people in the world have such a bad impression of Christians.
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  srwnsonposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Very true, I have seen this as well. But I think people sometimes allow anger to color their words. Perhaps something happened to her in the past, something connected to her church. It's hard to say what causes people to react badly to debate. Maybe it was just-one-of-those-days.
  
  I see it all the time on the road. Drivers get frustrated about something at home and take it out on fellow drivers over the CB. It isn't pretty but it happens.
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  the pink umbrellaposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  oh yea, its gotta be something that has made them bitter...cant possibly be that they just find the bible to be rediculous. thats right...all us non believers are simply broken individuals.. jeez
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  Mark Knowlesposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  And - strangely - they do not understand that this is what causes the ill will. This is the entire problem with their ridiculous belief system. It is selfish, promotes hatred and creates people who cannot think for themselves or develop ethical standards they can live with.
  
  Either that or I just hate god.
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  Andrew0208posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  And God loves you more than all your hate. I know that religion has caused a lot of harm to humanity...Manly and Selfish...Jesus kicked against the hypocrisy nature of it. God is not religion.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I do not hate Andrew. Please stop telling me what I must be feeling. I know that judging others is what your religion is all about - but please do not do it with me.
  
  Thanks.
  
  God = religion.
  
  You are religious. You are the one causing the harm. You. You are the one being manly and selfish. You. You are the one Jesus warned about. The one with the easy answer that he does not understand but needs to sell.
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  But Mark, you just said...
  
  "Either that or I just hate god. "
  
  So do you hate or not?
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  Andrew0208posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  @Mark, religion is manly and selfish not you. If you hate God then He loves you even more than all your hate to him. Wait a minute, did I hear you say "I hate God," how come you know He existed?
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  4wardthinkerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Mark, why are you so angry? Really, where is the real root of your anger? If your opinions of God and religion didn't matter, you wouldn't be so.... passionate about your stand. What are you really standing on? Only you can answer that for yourself only.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I never said religion does not matter - it has caused massive hardships, crazy people fly planes into buildings - all for god and religion - so of course it matters - it holds us back from developing. Sorry it upsets you so much that I do not believe your nonsense.
  
  I see you are yourself extremely angry that I do not believe - why is that? Really - why are you so very upset that some one speaks against your religion? What are you hiding?
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  4wardthinkerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  No I'm not angry. I have bigger things to work on in my life. It doesn't matter what you believe. I just think you seem to be a person with a lot of talent who gets caught up in some of the nonsense of religion just like many of us. I am a believer of Christianity, but those who don't believe will never understand where we are coming from until they experience it in their own life. It is a personal decision. I don't hide anything. I have seen a lot of people who need a personal savior, and if it is life changing for the better, they it isn't all bad. If a simple prayer helps someone get through the day, then we should look at the good it does in the world. I appologize for my sarcasim. It gets in my way sometimes!
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  stoneyyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry, but there's no 'choice' involved. I can no more believe in theistic rubbish than I can flap my arms and physically fly cross continent.
  
  As for 'people who need a personal savior, and if it is life changing for the better, they it isn't all bad' the inequities were scripted by 'Jesus.'
  
  1 Thessalonians 5:18 (King James Version)
  
  18 In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.
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  stoneyyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Peals of laughter. Many of them actually do believe that unbelievers hate god. They can't fathom the concept one can't hate something which doesn't exist.
  
  Christianity, for one, is the epitome of selfishness. I've yet to see a Christian acknowledge this.
  
  I hate to say this, but they're mental toddlers on this subject. It can be fun to explore a fictional world, but these people can't separate fantasy from reality.
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  stoneyyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Etherealenigmaposted 4 days ago
  
  "So many people get caught up in a superiority complex once they get a handle on the truth, or even a truth, that they make it near impossible for others to follow because of their arrogance."
  
  Religion isn't 'the' truth or 'a' truth. It is merely belief whether one is arrogant, or not.
  
  "I'm a strong believer in educating people, but you don't lead by force, but by example; and you can't shove your opinions, religious or otherwise, down anyone's throat. Just because someone disagrees with the Christian point of view is no reason to get into a heated debate and argument to prove the "rightness" of your position."
  
  Sadly, so many find those who lack belief a very hefty threat.
  
  "Having zeal does not encompass this sort of forced education on the public at large, and also does not include subtle agendas either.
  
  That is, in large part, the problem with many who call themselves "Christian." "
  
  Ah, but all Christians are self-identified. Indicating or suggesting any Xian isn't a 'true' Xian is a losing game as everyone would have that identification.
  
  According to ''Jesus' there isn't a Christian on the planet-but what would 'He' know?
  
  "I found this to be true with someone I addressed for the first time here in hubpages.
  
  She was so self-righteous and caught up in her religious beliefs that she couldn't see beyond her own opinions - exactly how offensive she was being to everyone else, even those who agreed in part with her.
  
  She did not attempt to foster or even establish relationships, but instead, used her extremely slight knowledge of "religion" as a bashing tool against the masses.
  
  I say "slight" because it was very clear from her responses that all of her opinions were from the shallow end of the pool of biblical knowledge, gained only by sitting up under a preacher, but not via any indepth self study. Her attitude alone demonstrated that clearly.
  
  Her arrogance turned any valid point she made moot, and destroyed her credibility, because she failed to demonstrate love, even to those who agreed with her in part. She could not simply agree to disagree without a heated debate over right and wrong, and debating with people does not win them to Christ."
  
  Objective supporting evidence is the winning path and Christians don't have anything. This is why 'Faith' has been raised to a 'virtue.'
  
  "I was very turned off with her attitude and approach, so I know that the unsaved would be as well. It didn't matter how much anyone attempted to reach out and gently reason with her. She was staunch in her view and unbending, and actually downright rude. No wonder people in the world have such a bad impression of Christians."
  
  Telling people they're 'unsaved' (how arrogant, rude, prideful, and contemptuous of you) understandably continues the bad impression of Christians. Such an attitude and approach {yours in this case} is not endearing.
  
  I don't see you rushing to be 'saved' by all the other superstitions and sects in the world, but yet you expect others to consider yours as 'the one.'
  
  Do consider that God/Jesus can throw the 'saved' into hell for an eternal version of 'scream theatre' and it is; righteous, loving, good, and the rest of the claptrap.
  
  According to the Christian superstition:
  
  Q: Who created everything? {myriad begged question alert}
  
  A: God.
  
  Q: Who was inconvenienced for your scripted sins?
  
  A: Jesus.
  
  Q: Who are you being saved *from?*
  
  A: God/Jesus.
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earnestshubposted 13 years ago
Ah yes, the bible is complete.
Here is some more "love" from the "good book"

"I have wiped out many nations, devastating their fortress walls and towers. Their cities are now deserted; their streets are in silent ruin. There are no survivors to even tell what happened. I thought, 'Surely they will have reverence for me now! Surely they will listen to my warnings, so I won't need to strike again.' But no; however much I punish them, they continue their evil practices from dawn till dusk and dusk till dawn." So now the LORD says: "Be patient; the time is coming soon when I will stand up and accuse these evil nations. For it is my decision to gather together the kingdoms of the earth and pour out my fiercest anger and fury on them. All the earth will be devoured by the fire of my jealousy. "On that day I will purify the lips of all people, so that everyone will be able to worship the LORD together. My scattered people who live beyond the rivers of Ethiopia will come to present their offerings. (Zephaniah 3:6-10 NLT)

Neurotic petty little god!
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Pratonixposted 13 years ago
Jesus is alive. He appeared to John the apostle on the island of Patmos and said, 'I am He that lives, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and I have the keys of Hades and of death.' Rev 1:18.

He appeared to Saul of Tarsus on the road to Damascus. He appeared to the two disciples on the road to Emmaus. He appeared to thousands of thousands of people over many centuries, and they became great men of God. He is ALIVE FOREVERMORE.

The tragedy is that many so-called 'christians' have never SEEN Christ, they have never had CONVICTION. They do not have the Holy Spirit dwelling in them. For them it is an 'evangelical religion'; they have accepted a formula or a creed; it is all external. That is why their witness and testimony is so INEFFECTIVE.
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  stoneyyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Of course, it can't be because the drivel you posit is seen as the rubbish it is. It 'has' to be some other excuse. If you keep telling yourself that maybe you'll come to believe it.
  
  How about being honest, daring and courageous?
  
  Provide clear and concise definitions and objective supporting evidence for each claim. No begged questions, furious handwaving, or broken logic will be accepted.
  
  Until this is done there is-literally-nothing to look for or consider.
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getitriteposted 13 years ago
Jesus is either dead or he never even existed.

Believing that he appeared, after death, because of a book of lies, only shows a willingness to be gullible and dishonest. The proof that this is a lie is this: Why in the hell doesn't Jesus just appear to all...today? Because he never appeared to anyone ever.

If one chooses a belief based on improbable "facts" then their belief is based on something other than reason, which makes the belief absurd.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  There is no proof that he ever lived anyway.
  The only book that tells it's readers that he lived has an obvious agenda. To judge others.
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  stoneyyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  More to control others and gather wealth and power. The Vatican with their perversions and stolen treasures demonstrate that daily.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yep! All that as well.
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  stoneyyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Oh, there's a hefty 'reason' for them to strive to hang on to their delusions as well as to try to sucker more people in. Its the 'Eternal Life' rubbish.
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Pratonixposted 13 years ago
The most truthful Book ever is the Bible. The 66 books that comprise the Bible.

The Devil has always tried to discredit the Bible, but in vain. Only those who are doomed to hell, because of the hardness of their hearts and their obsession with sin, will deny the truths in the Bible.

The Lord Jesus Christ is alive forevermore. He is King and He is Lord and He is God. He is also an Eternal Savior and Shepherd to those who trust in Him.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  This is truth is it?
  
  At the customary time for offering the evening sacrifice, Elijah the prophet walked up to the altar and prayed, "O LORD, God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, prove today that you are God in Israel and that I am your servant. Prove that I have done all this at your command. O LORD, answer me! Answer me so these people will know that you, O LORD, are God and that you have brought them back to yourself." Immediately the fire of the LORD flashed down from heaven and burned up the young bull, the wood, the stones, and the dust. It even licked up all the water in the ditch! And when the people saw it, they fell on their faces and cried out, "The LORD is God! The LORD is God!" Then Elijah commanded, "Seize all the prophets of Baal. Don't let a single one escape!" So the people seized them all, and Elijah took them down to the Kishon Valley and killed them there. (1 Kings 18:36-40 NLT)
  
  What a psychotic little tyrant!
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  getitriteposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  
  If Patronix denies this 'true' verse, then that would make him doomed to hell...by his own words:
  
  Patronix wrote: Only those who are doomed to hell, because of the hardness of their hearts and obsession with sin, will deny the truths in the Bible.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Exactly! I keep trying to point out to religionists that they should read the whole book, as many non believers have.
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  getitriteposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  
  There you go with your threats of hell.
  
  If all atheist are going to be in hell, then that is the only place I would want to be, because it is where I could spend eternity with the free-thinking intelligent people. That is what stimulates me.
  
  But to spend one minute in heaven with delusional, nonsensical, brainwashed, dishonest, fearful people, worshipping a brutal bully would certainly be hell. I can't stand you here on earth, so why would I want to spend eternity with you.
  
  Given the choice, I would RATHER go to hell. It would be the only thing bearable.
  
  btw, believing the bible to be the most truthful book ever, shows your lack of integrity and morals. The bible is sheer fiction.
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  stoneyyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Prat posted his/her usual false witness;
  
  "The most truthful Book ever is the Bible"
  
  The Babble is full of lies, ignorance, and inhumanities. Read the damn thing!
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Jeramiposted 13 years ago
It is written that when the Mesiah comes; God will have blinded their eyes that they NOT recognize the fact of it being him that had come. Those propheys concerning the rejection and crucifixion would not have come to fulfillment had they recognized who Jesus was.

The prophesy as given in visions, as stated in Daniel; were all understood by that Hebrew Nation that these prophesy were given to. They were there when they were fulfilled.

Part of the reason that THEY did not recognize their Messiah when he came is because they were not expecting him yet.
They believed that he would come during the time of the 14 "King" of the fourth Kingdom (Roman Empire)

They misinterpreted Daniel on this issue.
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ecogginsposted 13 years ago
Great question. Absolutely! Often religion gets in the way of a relationship with Jesus. That is why Jesus said he would send his Holy Spirit to convict people of "righteousness" as well as sin. Too often we commit acts of righteousness that we believe are in accordance with our relationship with Jesus or our religious preference but in fact we do to serve our own self-interest. It is like the story in the Gospel of John about the woman the people brought to Jesus after they caught her in adultery. In their self-righteousness they wanted to stone her thinking they were doing God's will. Jesus showed that they all deserved to be stoned and in turn all needed grace. The Apostle Paul is another example. As Saul of Tarsus he thought he was doing God's will when he was dragging Christians away and throwing them into prison and executing them. His own idea of who he thought God was and what God required got in the way of seeing who Jesus really was and drawing close to God he thoguht he was serving. And of course it is a secular humanist's religious views of man and his ability to develop utopia on earth through his own efforts (all the evidence to the contrary) that keeps him from seeing who Jesus really is and drawing close to him as well. I'll never understand what certain people have against love, joy, peace, and hope. However, we Christians need to remember the verse after John 3:16 which says that "God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world might be saved through him."
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You mean Paul the idiot who used a literal translation instead of the metaphorical interpretation. Good person to follow, NOT!
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SilentReedposted 13 years ago
You know what they say about a " menages a trois" relationship, they tend to get complicated. Just keep it simple - I and God or God and I. Dump the bitch (religious institutions) !!
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earnestshubposted 13 years ago
A relationship with jeseus is a religion! How can you just walk around that? There is not a single source for the belief except in religious tomes!
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  Rod Marsdenposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  In terms of history earnest, the existence of Jesus is a bit thin on the ground. There is evidence that pontius pilate existed. From the dead sea scrolls we know something about the politics of the time Jesus was supposed to exist and crucifixion for someone claiming to be a messiah is a recorded punishment/death sentence for such a claim. There were a number of potential messiahs done away with. There were a number of charismatic Jewish preachers around this time as well that fit Jesus' profile but never quite reached his fame.
  
  That's about it except, as you say, in religious tomes. The writing of Josephus is a bit sus. A Jewish scholar believes that he did write about Jesus but some latter day Christian copyist changed some of the words he wrote so we can't really know what Josephus really knew or what his views really were when it came to Jesus.
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paradigmsearchposted 13 years ago
"Does "religion" often get in the way of a relationship with Jesus"

Yes.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  love the picture and the name!
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  Twenty One Daysposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  hullo stranger.
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hlmillicanposted 13 years ago
A relationship with God is intensely personal. It involves all of you. However, one of the best ways to keep a spiritual journey with Christ in perspective, is the JOY method. Jesus comes first, Others are second, Yourself is last. This method not only highlights the self-sacrificing love of Christ that believers should have in their hearts, but spells out that we all should remember to humble ourselves, and not take our words, our lives, and our actions so seriously. Yes, "religion" can stifle your walk with God. Jesus sacrificed everything for others. Let us discipline ourselves, by holding our "me first" mind back, and uniting in love.

Micah 6:8 He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?
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  stoneyyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  hlmillicanposted 5 hours ago
  
  "A relationship with God is intensely personal."
  
  A 'relationship' with imaginary friends has that tendency.
  
  A person wandering around talking to/about and praising an invisible 'Humpfrey' would have people, including Christians backing away and looking for the 'butterfly net.'
  
  The person would back away faster if the other started quoting verses from "The Book of Humpfrey."
  
  Things get worse if the same person started building a church to worship Humpfrey. It could very well mean a trip to the nut house.
  
  Now change the invisible friend's name to 'Jesus' and you'll have a bunch of Christians whooping with joy and telling stories about what their invisible friend did for them.
  
  Build a new Christian house of superstition and no Christian 'bats an eye.'
  
  Christians quoting verses can lead to a 'battle' of favourite verses.
  
  All individuals involved are nuts, because the actions are the same. Sadly, its the empty promise of Eternal Life which makes the difference.
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Sadly, you do seem to have accepted that Eternal Life is an empty promise, so be it, then for you it will be.
  
  Words have power.
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  stoneyyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Damn, you're dishonest and cowardly!
  
  You idiots follow "Supergod" and wrap yourselves in the 'Armour of the Lord[tm]' and you haven't the integrity to respond to points raised.
  
  What part of 'don't believe the bullshit' are you unable to grasp?
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Ecclesiastes 5:2
  
  Be not rash with your mouth, and let not your heart be hasty to utter a word before God. For God is in heaven, and you are on earth; therefore let your words be few.
  
  What part of God is omnipotent do you not understand?
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  The part where he is a no-show.
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  stoneyyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I fully understand 'God' doesn't exist.
  
  What part of Omnipotent do you not understand fails due to its internal contradiction?
  
  Its people like you who push people away from 'God.' I've had people indicate that to me.
  
  That doesn't bother me, but it certainly troubles the folks involved.
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earnestshubposted 13 years ago
No.
Reality gets in the way of a relationship with an unlikely fairy.
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pisean282311posted 13 years ago
i presume jesus here means god though i consider jesus as human being..so according to me what you asked if does religion get in way of god...well religion does get in way of what humans can find,seek and know...
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Jesus Christ, lives today, not as a human being, human beings rarely live for 2000 years, nor have the ability to communicate with folks, as Christ does every day.
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  pisean282311posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  christ should communicate with 200 people only if He wants world to be better place...r.why doesnot christ talk to obama , iran president , chinese premier?...BTW there are people around the world who claim to see other religious heads too..i bet if you practice and train your brain , you would be able to see buddha too..
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Strikes me that's the problem, you see THEY need to speak with HIM.
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  pisean282311posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  you mean to say christ is seen by so many people around the world except those who can really make difference in lives of billions?...
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Those millions (actually billions)of people have a relationship with Christ, and speak to Him,I somehow doubt that the worlds leaders speak to Him, and they certainly do not listen.
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  pisean282311posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  it doesnot make sense..logically christ if he talks and visits people as u said and why only christ..believers of other faiths have even claimed that whom they believe visit them or talk to them...so let us give this talking/visiting entity more general name..that is god..now if god can visit and talk to billions as you say..why can't HE talk to people who actually call the shots if HE is seriously interested in making world a better place...what is more logical..talking to someone who can do nothing or taking to someone who can really make difference?
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Several times on radio or TV programmes I have had folk ask me why God does not intervene and change things, and the answers always the same, not enough of us ask Him to do so.
  
  About 45% of the world profess to be Christians, but most of them have never actually come to faith, they were either 'born' as Christians or joined because it was the culture to do so.
  
  They generally belong to church bodies where they are allowed to stagnate in their 'faith' because the leaders either cannot, or decide not, to actually challenge them.
  
  I'm talking here about western Christians, the Chinese believers are much more vibrant, but then most of them came to Christ through revelation not birth.
  
  People vastly overestimate the REAL number of folks who have a relationship with Christ, rather than a relationship with a church.
  
  I would calculate that between 3-5% of Christians are active and fulfilling the need to be obedient to Christ, and to watch and pray, as we are directed in scripture.
  
  Yes I am lumping myself in that 3-5%, albeit probably in the lower echelon of those folk, but nevertheless, I do my watch, and pray for the world to turn from their rebellion and awaken to the fact that the world has not managed to bring about the peace it thought that science and knowledge would manage to achieve.
  
  Our world leaders (and the emphasis is on 'world') by default could rarely have a close relationship with God. To ascend the political ladder as a true bible believer would be impossible in the western world, and all such countries that hold themselves to be theocratic are in any case excluded from the 'world' stage of government.
  
  Simply put, God and the world do not mix.
  
  Now God COULD impose His will on the world, and indeed scripture indicates that eventually He will do just this, but FOR NOW there is still time for folk to approach God in His Mercy and Grace, i.e. He is still being patient with us.
  
  So the answer is that YES God WILL speak to the world, but when He does again appear to speak, the world will still (again) reject Him, and His prophets, and will once again try to refuse the fact that God in in control.
  
  He seeks our WILLING surrender of rebellion, He desires that we come to relationship in love, not by coercion, not by force, but in love.
  
  All those who refuse His existence will scream foul when He demonstrates His omnipotence, but by then it will not matter, for when God speaks, it's done.
  
  So (if you happen to be a world leader reading this)seek first the kingdom of God THEN all these things will be added to you.
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  pisean282311posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  hmmm...interesting..so does god believe in democracy or mere following HIS orders?..if yes why did god give ability to think..we could have been impulsive animals who do as nature programmed them..what ever world we see whether we rate it as good or bad or worse is because of god's design of human brain..now one cannot blame product ..responsibility is on manufacturer..do u say product is bad or you say manufacturer doesnot have expertise to make quality product?...
  
  coming to science and technology ..without science we would still be hunting in jungle..kudos to brains who could think and act ..
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  Pratonixposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I have read your reply, aguasilver. "Several times on radio or TV programmes ......seek first the kingdom of God THEN all these things will be added to you."
  
  Every sentence is brilliant. Comprehensive reply. Well done, my friend.
  
  Alas, the sad part is that 95% of the 'Christians' here on HubPages will not understand it! Because they have never really and truly been born again.
  
  As regards the unbelievers (atheists et al), they are a sad and sorry lot. You can only PRAY for them.
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  choppieposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Pratonix, I just have to agree with you, from aguaslilver to praying for the lost. I was basically going to say the same as you, so I decided instead to just post an AMEN!
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  stoneyyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  The only people who are 'lost' are you Xians. Y'all have lost your minds. So be it. We'll think for you.
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  stoneyyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Prat drooled;
  
  Alas, the sad part is that 95% of the 'Christians' here on HubPages will not understand it! Because they have never really and truly been born again.
  
  As regards the unbelievers (atheists et al), they are a sad and sorry lot. You can only PRAY for them. ]
  
  That 95% includes you and Aqua. As for the unbelievers, I see you're following your father Satan as does he.
  
  Nothing fails like prayer. You fools can pray all you like and we'll think for you.
  
  You're welcome.
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  stoneyyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  People vastly overestimate the REAL number of folks who have a relationship with Christ, rather than a relationship with a church.
  
  Aqua pontificated;
  I would calculate that between 3-5% of Christians are active and fulfilling the need to be obedient to Christ, and to watch and pray, as we are directed in scripture.
  
  Yes I am lumping myself in that 3-5%, albeit probably in the lower echelon of those folk, but nevertheless, I do my watch, and pray for the world to turn from their rebellion and awaken to the fact that the world has not managed to bring about the peace it thought that science and knowledge would manage to achieve. ]
  
  Pride is a sin, don't you know-as is your constant bearing false witness. No, you're not any Christian 'Jesus' would be proud of. He'd say; I don't know you and its off to Hell you go.
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  stoneyyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  There's no HIM to speak to.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  and therein lies the problem!
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  stoneyyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, but theists lack the opposable thumbs to grasp the fact.
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  Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Is there a specific way to distinguish that from people talking to an empty void and listening to their own voices in their head?
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Jeramiposted 13 years ago
If every human prayed the same prayer , if answering that prayer is going against his design it will not be answered,

We too often forget the "Thy will be done done" part.
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  stoneyyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Which was set in stone eons ago. I've pointed that out over and over again and every Xian's ignored it to continue prattling the same B.S..
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bsscorpio8posted 13 years ago
Yes, religion tends to get in there and "muck things up". Too many den-nomi-nations.
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  stoneyyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  20's and 50's are accepted but they cartwheel with joy at 100's.
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aguasilverposted 13 years ago
Of course you could just let all we 'deluded' folk preach the word, and if you truly felt that the God if the bible was irrelevant to your existence, you would not be making such dedicated efforts to stop His word being presented for folk to decide upon.

Who gave you the right to limit free speech?
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  Mark Knowlesposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Aww - of course it is relevant to my existence. I have had three friends murdered because they believed in the wrong Invisible Super Daddy and another version of the Super Daddy fan club killed them for it. That is what delusion does to you. Feel free to preach your delusions as often as you want - I am just teaching you that it causes fights and will continue to point that out.
  
  Here you are fighting yet again.
  Sorry - turning the other cheek.
  Like wot Jeebus sed.
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  stoneyyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Liar liar liar. Poor Satanic sot. No one here has curtailed your freedom to post drivel, ala a physically grown adult yammering about 'Santa Claus.'
  
  All we are doing is showing what you spew has no substance as well as laughing at you.
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aguasilverposted 13 years ago
Would you care to elucidate how, why and who killed your three friends, were they killed by folk calling themselves Christians?

...or was it some other religion?

There is no valid reason to kill anybody for their faith, or lack of it.

PS Replying to your posts is not fighting, and you are not teaching me anything by blathering on for the sake of it, in some vain hope that you may silence any dissension to your unbelief.

But as it's 4am here, I'm off to bed, so blather away.
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aguasilverposted 13 years ago
I'll pick up your explanation tomorrow.!

Nite Mark.
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CMCastroposted 13 years ago
Religion Is Man Made, not God Made. The religious people in the Bible were those who refuted Jesus, and perhaps were the ones who Crucified the Son of God. Perhaps we should all ask ourselves what we have done in our lifetimes to make us religious? Being religious is a routine practice of being in "correct" manner or "going through the motions" to please God. Having a relationship with God and His Son Jesus Christ does not fit a "Sunday" format. Our relationship with Christ Jesus exists without a prerequisite of belonging to a set of people named a "religion" or who in a routine fashion put on the best outfits to go to a building on "Sunday." Now it is important, I think, to find a Ministry that Teaches the Word of God that gives guidance and spiritual support. Once a person finds a place to be rooted and to grow in the Word of God, then that sets a foundation in learning and gives a Spiritual Covering. Then, attendance with the purpose of Studying God's Word to apply it to one's life is more worthwhile than "going through the motions" on a Sunday. And, corporate worship, worship with others Pleases God and it is also power against the Spiritual Enemy.
Finally, I wish to say that every day is The Lord's DAY!
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  stoneyyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  CM posted;
  
  Finally, I wish to say that every day is The Lord's DAY! ]
  
  Let's see;
  Sunday= Sun's Day
  Monday=Moon's Day
  Tuesday=Tir's Day
  Wednesday=Wotan's Day
  Thursday=Thor's Day
  Friday=Frigga's Day
  Saturday=Saturn's Day
  
  Gee, none of them refer to your imaginary buddy. Imagine that. You folks strike out every time.
  reply report

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