More Hypocrisy From The Left

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lady_love158posted 13 years ago
http://www.suntimes.com/3689837-417/rah … d-he-do-it

There can be no doubt about how government is a source for corruption. Any call to expand government is an encouragement of abuse and a signal of acceptance and tolerance of that practice. If wha Rahm did isn't criminal it certainly should be!
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Ironic.
  
  Government corruption is on both side. The thing is which ones are corrupt?
  
  I have a poll on one of my hubs that asks people who read the hub to vote on the question. Some say it's completely corrupt, some say no it's not completely corrupt, and some say maybe just part of it is corrupt.
  
  Which means, plenty of people see corruption within government, just unsure which representatives or senators are actually corrupt.
  
  So please, drop the bull about the left. It comes from both sides. One is not any better than the other.
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  lady_love158posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Where did I mention the left? The fact is the left favors larger government and with that will come greater corruption... on BOTH sides.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  DUH? Look at your TITLE. WOW!
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  lady_love158posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  LOL!OH!!
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  Smkmdb11posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It's a well known fact that most Liberals would back up Obama's policies. Another known fact is Obama, along with most Liberals favor more Government.
  
  One more fact....our Founding Fathers were against large government. They favored small controlled government. Shouldn't it be kept that way?
  
  If you don't like the way they started the legacy, go to Europe.
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  Brenda Durhamposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  That's Cagsil's post.
  I did read it.
  And Cagsil told lady to "drop the bull about the Left" like she didn't have a right to expose the hyprocrisy of the Left.
  
  To which I pointed out the fact that there've been numerous threads and still are numerous threads demonizing the Right. Yet Cagsil got upset when the hyprocrisy of the Left is exposed.
  
  What part of that do people not have the eyesight to see?
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  Smkmdb11posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Come on dude. The Right is clearly right 99% of the time. Anytime you bring up facts against a liberal, they just change the subject and use 11 y.o "you did it" tactics.
  
  Liberals are the most anti-American people, more so than any sociaist I've every met.
  
  Hell...They are mostly socialists themselves.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Oh please. Neither side walks the walk, they both talk the talk, and when they speak, you people come crawling out of the woodwork to protect your side. The attempt is sad in nature.
  
  BOTH sides blow smoke and each side has their gullible citizens willing to support their foolishness. So, please.
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  John Holdenposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  One only has to read the threads on here, the right wingers ducking and dodging and changing the subject when they realise how carp their arguments are to realise that what you write is a load of squit
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  Smkmdb11posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Cagsil, I won't waste any time on that except to say, people love to debate. That's why we get on here. If you think it's that stupid for me to defend my political views, or for holden to defend his, than just don't visit the thread, lol. Your lower than any socialist scum I argue with on these threads.
  
  It's funny how Fox news, the only news outlet not controlled by the Obama elite, is at the top of the rating charts, for every time slot, every day of the week, for years running.
  
  They are right. Period.
  
  However, I love the conversation. I hate when people just add comments to add them. Take a side or dont join the argument. What else is there to do on here than to argue each side?
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BillyDRitchieposted 13 years ago
I don't know about illegal, but certainly questionable enough that if this were a conservative, our leftist friends would be having him for breakfast......
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Brenda Durhamposted 13 years ago
So, his focus was on raking-in the dough. And now he will basically own Chicago if he becomes Mayor.
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  Doug Hughesposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  WHEN he becomes Mayor.
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  KFlippinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Big Big IF . . . I hope Blago has some tasty dirt to stop that in its illegal tracks, of course Blago real dirt can not stop Illegal voting, or rather voter fraud to seem Rahm crowned.
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  Doug Hughesposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Captain America - do you ever bother with facts?
  
  This report from an FBI tape heard in court - excerpt from http://abcnews.go.com/WN/fbi-tapes-blag … d=11074475
  
  "But when he heard the Obama team offered only "appreciation," Blagojevich went into a rage using a string of expletives.
  
  "Give this motherf***** his senator. F*** him. For nothing? F*** him."
  
  On Obama, he veers from rage to jealousy.
  
  "I mean, you got this historic, f****** demigod. He's a demigod. At least for now. You follow me?" Blagojevich said during one phone call."
  
  The attempts to link Obama to Blago because they are both from Illinois are pathetic - and completely refudiated by Blago.
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  KFlippinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I suppose it must be a figment of my imagination that Blago is now saying that a key conversation with an aid of his and Rahms has been withheld. And for certain, truly, I do quite imagine that there is so much more to be heard that has been buried, but perhaps one day will see the light of day, after all, it is Chicago ........
  
  Oh, and what facts were you refuting me on, I merely gave a hope regarding Blago and an opinion regarding Rahmbo and what it would take to see him elected...........
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  Doug Hughesposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  What facts??? The quotes were from an FBI wiretap... You have idle speculation...
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  KFlippinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You have a headache, you are the one that said I did not have the facts, when I was not quoting anyones facts.......LOL
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Brenda Durhamposted 13 years ago
Apparently, it's okay to see thread after thread demonizing the Right, but Cagsil doesn't like it when someone talks about the Left.
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  lady_love158posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  He'll have to get used to it... I'll never stop pointing out the evils of the left!
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  Brenda Durhamposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You're one in a million. Not mesmerized by Obama's sly tongue. Cool!
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  junkoposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  lady_love and Brenda Durham you two will need help with this one. I have nothing to say and you two have nothing to say,so...
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Point out all you want. You only prove my point. So feel free.
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  Daniel Carterposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  The evils of anyone are just a mirror of yourself. You see in others what you hate to see in yourself.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hey Brenda, pretty unthinkable statement you make about my supposed affiliation with either left or right. Good to know, you don't read my posts very well. I guess that's nothing new for you.
  
  Oh well.
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  John Holdenposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  What, like
  "More Hypocrisy From the Left",
  "Why Obama Should Resign",
  "The Obama Lies on Tax Increases",
  "Why Obama is Nothing Like JFK"
  "Obama is a Failure"
  
  Thread after thread demonising the right!!!!
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  Brenda Durhamposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Did you miss all the ones, continuing and recent?
  
  Examples---
  
  Republicans are Bringing Integrity to the House (the poster meant exactly the opposite of course)
  
  Bachmann wants to slash veterans' benefits
  
  The disastrous legacy of Ronald Reagan, in charts (There's even a post in THAT one mocking Reagan's illness).
  
  Swiss want to arrest Bush for torture
  
  John Boehner, Tabloid cover boy
  
  Is Glenn Beck for real?
  
  And the list goes on and on.
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  John Holdenposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  And I could have suffixed my list with a similar "and the list goes on and on".
  No, you miss the point again, unless you think it somehow right for the right to post slagging off the left but extremely unfair for the left to fight back.
  You know that the right isn't so called because it is by nature correct, it was named because of the arrangement of the parties in the French government, that's all.
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  Brenda Durhamposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I never said it's unfair for the left to fight back.
  
  Although, actually, it's the Left that has caused all the controversy, so in effect it's the Right that has to fight back.
  But whatever. Cagsil's the one who urged someone to stop talking, not me. I'm all for freedom of speech. At least when it's common sense stuff.
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  John Holdenposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Common sense of course only spoken by the right!
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  Brenda Durhamposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Tell me what the Left shows common sense about?
  
  Making American taxpayers fund abortions?
  
  Making the military shell out money to cover the lifestyle of gays and whoever they label their partner who want their medical bills paid simply because they want to engage in risky behavior, while labeling the terminal diseases an uninsured straight person gets a "pre-existing condition"?
  
  Telling Christians they have no say in their government?
  
  Accusing the Right of hate speech when they speak Biblical truths?
  
  I don't think so.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  That's your first problem Brenda- biblical truths? Oh please.
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  lovemychrisposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Don't forget, Helen Thomas and Rick Sanchez were fired too...for speaking their minds about Israel. She even said; "You can call the president any name in the book, but in America, you can't criticize Israel." There is something WRONG with this picture!....Free speech my behind. Howard Stern gone....Limbaugh still here.
  And I DO think people care about people....it's the system that sux.
  
  AND...for the millionth time, and VERIFIED by Brenda....Democrats are for giving women power over their lives. Republicans, as a philosophy, are not.
  
  Women are American citizens too, and if tax dollars are used on abortions, it's no worse than tax dollars used to manufacture and give white phosphorous to people so they can bomb litte babies with it.
  
  Military gives so much to rogue contractors, we could all be rich with that money.
  
  We are telling Christians they don't OWN America.
  
  And hate is hate. No matter how you sugar-coat it.
  
  "Liberals are the most anti-American people"
  I have been told this since 2001 when I started questioning George W Bush. And this smear stings worse than all the rest. Where do you get off saying that?
  
  All of you people on the right who think you have the God-Given right to Rule this country...that is the biggest problem we have to overcome.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Well, politicians just continue to dumb down society, so it's becoming much easier to manipulate. Government rules over people, to force upon moral and civil laws. Government does so because it's already common knowledge among most that the average person cannot simply do for themselves.
  
  With this knowledge, politicians continue to speak half-truths and spout off misinformation, so the country cannot grasp the true agenda. That true agenda is control.
  
  Religion has no place in government. Government has a specific job. Yet, it's been asked to do more and more, when in fact it shouldn't be doing half of the things they are doing presently.
  
  The mindless actions of government agencies to police the Economy, continues be badly handled. The ineptitude of the people, to fight tooth and nail, on specific things and not compromise is foolhardy at best. Sooner or later, the whole system is going to collapse.
  
  This entire thread has been nothing but garbage to begin with. Slinging insults and useless banter, only to not realize that nothing is accomplished by actions of posting.
  
  Talk about how illiterate and gullible people are presently. WOW!
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  Evan G Rogersposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  it's on the left, too.
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  lovemychrisposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  The left is not trying to stick their nose in my uterus...the blue-dogs...yes, the left,no.
  
  They uphold freedom more than all the so called freedom-lovers!
  
  If I told you you MUST have a vasectomy, how would you feel? Because, it WOULD solve the abortion issue...lock stock and barrell
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  Evan G Rogersposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  If someone told me i HAD to have a vasectomy, I would buy a gun and fight for freedom.
  
  Yet, you argue against the 2nd amendment.
  
  Wake up, Lovemychris, you're a libertarian! I see it in you, unfortunately you're being blinded by the false morals that the left espouses.
  
  The same way I was.
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  lovemychrisposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I'm not arguing the 2nd amendment...I'm saying the 1st and the 4th are JUST as important!!
  
  NO ONE has any right to my womb, but me!
  
  And Howard Stern has just as much right to say boobies on commercial radio as Glenn Beck does to say "you gotta shoot democrats in the head!"
  
  And I do have very Libertarian leanings...my fav talk radio host is Gene Burns....but he got slashed with the rabid-righty take-over. "Osama, Hussein...Osama, Hussein....hates america hates white people hates hates hates...kill them!!!!" What is IN Fox's breakfast cereal?
  
  HOWEVER, I also belive in gvt. It can be a great force for the good of all. Just because we lost our way, doesn't mean it has to stay that way!
  
  it's a funny thing....IF it happened in 1913.....we should research when and how it happened to other countries...how and why?
  
  I'm encouraged though, by the number of people who still believe in All for One.
  
  And the younger generation. They are very much like they used to describe Repub Gv Bill Weld....socially liberal, but fiscally conservative. I can fit that bill.
  
  BUT---I say Cut from the top, not the bottom!!!!!!
  If they just removed the cap on Social Security....that would solve everything monetary wise! imo. And NO one would feel any pain! Imagined pain, yeah....."Oh the pain!! 57 mil instead of 59"....Ohhhhhhh misery........SNORT.
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  Jim Hunterposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  "They uphold freedom more than all the so called freedom-lovers!"
  
  Really?
  
  Telling me I have to buy something is upholding my freedom?
  
  God, its so good to have freedom that the democrats allow me to have...
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  lovemychrisposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  That's right....because just as we have car insurance which makes it more affordable for all...health insurance will do the same thing. Healthier citizens=healthier country.
  
  If you don't think I should have health insurance, what do you suppose happens to me if I don't pay my car insurance?
  
  No work
  No money
  No house
  
  Kind of forced to buy car insurance aren't I?
  should I cry?
  
  waaa waaa waaaaaaaa
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  Jim Hunterposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  "Kind of forced to buy car insurance aren't I?"
  
  No, no more than you are forced to buy a car.
  
  No car no insurance, this argument doesn't work.
  
  Why bother?
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  John Holdenposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Forgive me if I'm wrong but we've had an awful lot about the constitution and the present governments unconstitutional actions.
  Isn't the US constitution quite firm and clear on keeping the role of government totally separate and free from religious interference?
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  Brenda Durhamposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  No. It's about protecting the citizens from religious tyranny. Or tyranny of any kind. It's not about keeping Faith in God from having an effect on politics, because that is exactly the standard our politics are based on.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  And look at how screwed up the politics are? The irony just continues.
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  John Holdenposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  But you are constantly stating that decisions should be based on religious dogma, not letting religion temper the hand but constantly quoting Christianity as the way everything should be dealt with.
  Seems like you are all in favour of religious tyranny.
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  Brenda Durhamposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry, but here in American the Right is the right.
  
  And like I said, some new "Party" isn't gonna do a thing to correct the wrongs done by either Party.
  The "Tea Party" was supposed to speak for the majority of the people. Now it's becoming more like a separate Party itself. That's so much bull! Because if it keeps taking that course, it will be so deluged that no one even knows what it stands for anymore. Fence-straddling doesn't work well. It's a fallacy, just like "reaching across the aisle" has become just a front for seducing the Right into the pitfalls of the Left.
  
  American should clean up the Parties they already have. Instead, even well-meaning people are falling into the trap of making NEW Parties, of falling into the idea of "CHANGE".
  
  I say if it ain't broke, don't try to "fix" it.
  And if it IS broke, clean it up and fix it, instead of buying a new one.
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  John Holdenposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Didn't read what I wrote did you?
  
  And what exactly do you mean if it is broke, fix it, instead of buying a new one! You mean like work with Obama rather than set up a witch hunt to hound him out of office?
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  Evan G Rogersposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  so you're argument is that "the rights started it".
  
  ... hmm... sounds like me when I was 4
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  C.J. Wrightposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I think you are missing Casgil's point completely.
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  Brenda Durhamposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  No, I don't think so.
  When everything gets into a big mess, FINALLY people want to lump both Parties into one big lump taking responsibility for it all.
  Instead, I say let the Right take responsibility for its wrongs and let the Left take responsibility for its wrongs. The balance scale of wrongs is tilted measurably to the Left. Even more so today, but always has been. That's why they're labeled Left and Right, something the Left tries to conveniently forget.
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  C.J. Wrightposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  now that you have ellaborated, I'm CERTAIN you missed his point.
  
  How many times have you chosen a candidate for office based on his/her stance on abortion?
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  Brenda Durhamposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I vote based on the Platform, because THAT is what the politicians are bound to, or should be bound to. And of course the Republican Party is the only one that claims to uphold the sanctity of life.
  The way I see it, politicians are a dime a dozen. But the core standards of the Party are not.
  
  Let me edit that to say MOST politicians are a dime a dozen. There've been some good ones, and are some good ones I reckon.
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  C.J. Wrightposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Has the law regarding abortion changed?
  Do you support the Patriot Act?
  Do you support NAFTA?
  
  The point is Brenda that both parties have raped and robbed us blind for years! They have divided us on issues that don't matter. Convinced us that they can "CREATE" jobs. That the PRESIDENT is responsible for the economy....it's ridiculous. All of this could not and WAS not achieved by the LEFT. It was a combined effort. GW Bush supported the "NEW WORLD ORDER" Do you?
  We have two parties with rubber stamped ideals. Neither party has any alegiance to those ideals.
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  Brenda Durhamposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  And the "neutral" or "independent" Parties are fence-straddling.
  The right thing would be to kick the RINO's out of the Republican Party, and to set a standard beyond which even the Democratic Party cannot cross, so that there would be at least a choice between halfway-decent and decent.
  
  ...Don't people realize what the Parties were for?
  
  They're made for giving citizens the ability to choose from among two Parties as to which Candidate of each seems to be a better leader or has access to knowledge or contacts that will make America a better place.
  They were never meant to be a choice between good and evil. But the last Election ended up just like that, because a man who was ineligible morally, emotionally, and legally was allowed to be nominated. The Left did that, not the Right.
  
  My God! Americans were never meant to have to choose between being a Republic and being a Socialist nation! We were never meant to have to choose between one leader and another who advocates blaspemy! Let 'em argue over who can build better bridges or has the ability to communicate our Nation's policies to the rest of the world, or which one has a better understanding and fellowship with our military, etc., not over basic principles.
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  Evan G Rogersposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  NOT THE LIBERTARIANS!!! NOR THE ANARCHISTS!!!
  
  they've been yelling and shouting from rooftop to rooftop - it's just that no one listens!
  
  Updates everyday: http://lewrockwell.com/
  Updates everyday: http://mises.org/
  Good stuff: http://www.cato.org/
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  Jillian Barclayposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  The Republican party is the only one that claims to uphold the sanctity of life? When you use the word "claims", are you suggesting that the GOP really doesn't uphold the sanctity of life, they just pretend to? If so, then maybe I agree. Because their claim is a lie. Maybe they pretend to uphold the sanctity of unborn life, but certainly once someone is born, their life can be snuffed out---no problem. Then, it doesn't matter.
  
  Case in point: How do you balance "sanctity of life" with GOP governor Jan Brewer's decision to end partial state funding of prospective transplant patients? $4.5 million dollars cut directly affect 100 patients- oh! make that 98 now-2 have died. Adds up to $45,000 per patient. Human life, once born, is not worth that much?
  http://www.aolnews.com/2010/12/03/arizo … lant-list/
  
  Republicans are always talking about wanting smaller government, staying out of peoples' lives, etc. then somehow think it is okay to meddle in the lives of women who choose to use their right to abortion(settled law since the '70's), then those same Republicans ignore the lives of the already born...
  
  The 'smaller government' pretense is just that, words that sound good, but mean nothing.
  
  Finally, the God argument that Republicans always use when waging their culture wars is out of line. Last time I looked, most members of Congress were too busy lining their pockets and worrying about keeping their jobs to care much about God. And God should never enter into the political conversation--even though the witch, Christine O'Donnell, didn't quite get the concept of separation of church and state, the concept is in the Constitution. We don't have a theocracy, and try as you might to establish one, it isn't going to happen...
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hey C.J. that's okay. It goes in line with my response to her post. Fairly rarely does she read "all" of my posts. She only reads what she doesn't agree with. Not too surprising.
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  lady_love158posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  That's not fair! Wouldn't some have to first read you post to make a determination as to whether or not they agree?
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Well, it's always obvious, which apparently you missed, my posts are read. Because, they always invoke a reaction or response. So, apparently you're not as brilliant as you claim to be.
  
  It's obvious, yet you responded to my post, therefore you reply insinuates you read my post. Hmmm..... How ironic.
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Stevennix2001posted 13 years ago
I honestly think there's hypocrisy from both parties if you want my honest opinion. Neither party really gives a damn about the common person, and both are more concerned with assessing and placing blame on the rival party. As for third parties? they're a joke. anyone that knows enough about government will be able to tell you that with the way the system is set up, they can't win, nor are they meant to ever win.

Personally, I think it's funny that both liberals and conservatives whine and gripe about the other party, when neither party really has as much power in this country as they think. I think any smart person would know that the real power in this country comes from the billionaires that fund this country like the Bill Gates, Donald Trumps, the Kennedy's, the Rockerfellers, and so on. Don't believe me? How else could you explain that comedians can get away with slandering every single US president we've ever had; while noticing how Rosie O'Donnell conveniently got fired from "The View" coincidentally when she decided to take cheap shots at Donald Trump. I know I'm not the only person that notices this either, as I know all it probably took was one phone call to get her fired for those remarks.

Plus, I also noticed another thread on here blaming the police for not doing their jobs. My thoughts are on this is that you have to remember. Organized crime sadly has more power in this country than we do. Don't believe me? Just watch the news or read about it sometime. Organized crime has existed for years, and I know for damn sure we could've stopped it at anytime, but why don't we? have you ever thought of why that is? Personally, I think we're already starting to see the negative effects of beuracracy in this country, to where I think if we don't make drastic changes soon...we may lose our place as the world's top super power.
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  Brenda Durhamposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You're right about one thing---yes, money talks.
  And yes we're in danger of losing our place as the world's top super power. And I don't think there is another "shining city on a hill" to replace it. Instead it will be a glaring maze in a swamp of chaos, where liberty's sold to the fattest wallet.
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  Stevennix2001posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I don't know about that. I think if anything, it looks like China might eventually take our place as the world's top super power if you ask me. I mean lets look at the facts. They have a strong military. Not that we don't, but they don't have the media getting in their military's way all the time. Two, they're already converting to capitalism, and they're becoming more of a powerhouse in international trading.
  
  Lastly, lets not forget where all that bail out money came from that we borrowed from them. we still don't know the long term ramifications of that loan, as I'm sure at the rate we're going, we'll be in debt to china for a long time.
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  Brenda Durhamposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Well, Obama keeps pushing his "fundamental change" onto America. Maybe he would be happier in China! Wonder if China would consider it a fair trade for our debt?....
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  Stevennix2001posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Brenda, I doubt that would be a fair trade to China.
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SirDentposted 13 years ago
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  Brenda Durhamposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  hahahaaa
  SirDent, that cracked me up! lol
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  
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lovemychrisposted 13 years ago
Well, I don't think Obama is dumbing us down...he speaks quite intelligently.
And I think he is trying to DO for America, not control us.

Trying to undo the stuff of the past.

And personally, I have much more of a problem with State agencies than Federal!

And even MORE with business.......really---speaking to a COMPUTERIZED VOICE.....really?

I don't think people talking is a waste of time.

Psy-opting an agenda....now that's another story.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Lovemychris, government is control.
  Undo stuff of the past? Oh please. Any idiot who understands life, knows you cannot undo what has been done, and to focus on doing so, is foolish.
  I cannot disagree. State or Federal, both have been increasingly getting worse.
  Yes, business is cutting costs wherever possible. Thus, removing people from paid positions. This is a down-side of technology. Therefore, more people need to be educated, so they are not stuck in a dead end job, which can be cut at any time.
  It's a complete waste of time, if the discussion is only to blame each side for the faults and do nothing to fix problems. This is the misinformation I constantly talk about.
  No story, it's the truth. Government is only about usurping power and control over citizens. That's all it's ever been about. The educated elite have no fear of society, because society cannot ever be truly united, because of the misinformation and distortion tactics played by both business and politicians.
  
  See their "PSY"- it's easy, when you can see past yourself(no offense intended).
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  Jim Hunterposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  "Well, I don't think Obama is dumbing us down...he speaks quite intelligently.
  And I think he is trying to DO for America, not control us."
  
  Obama talks goodly...
  
  He just never says anything worth listening to.
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  lovemychrisposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I just love Obama...he cracks me up! Just when the sour-puss Righty's are smirking, thinkiNg that they have walKed all over him.....BAM! Obama charms them to death!! Love it.
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lovemychrisposted 13 years ago
Well, to each his own...I only feel controlled by gvt when the Republicans are in charge. Controlled and suppressed.

And they ARE undoing things of the past. Or trying to, though it's like pulling teeth. BUT---some things have been changed for the better...in the credit-card act, and the healthcare bill. And the New Warren commission. And the equal pay for women. And the tax-cuts for POOR people...halleluyah!
Someone posted once the list of things Obaba has accomplished...it's quite long.

I just disagree with your philosophy. Gvt should be for the people. It has not been---it has been for the Robber Barons. But that is changing...you don't think so....I do.

We are in a new age...the hangers-on just don't see it yet
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Government for the people? Yet, you go on about control from Republicans, yet fail to realize the constrictions of Democrats as well.
  
  Government has two roles- domestic protection and foreign threats.
  
  Any government agency in place that isn't dedicated to those two things, should be eliminated. Having redundant agencies are useless. Too many agencies overlap in responsibilities, use up unnecessary funding and only make everything more complex. Thus, making it easier for government to maintain control through misinformation and fear tactics.
  
  Every person should be self-sufficient, on a direct path for creating wealth, regardless. The uneducated people, who lack the knowledge of how to create wealth is the biggest problem. They were never told. Many of which are presently dying off after living on social security benefits for 10 years or more.
  
  More and more people need to understand the best way to accomplish building wealth, because as it stands right now, the shrinking middle class is becoming poverty stricken class, and soon more and more of them will be part of the homeless class.
  
  By all accounts, a lot of the programs initiatives and funded by government have no need to exist, because many are just a smoke screen for passing money through government to those who know how to gain access.
  
  So, please.
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  junkoposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Sounds hopeless
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  But, it's not actually. More people need to wake up to the fact that their individual life has more to do with than realized. The inter-connectivity of each person's life makes a huge difference.
  
  Everyone so disconnected from their surroundings is actually destroying the surroundings. Being an individual is good, as long as it's understood. Being part of a collective, as living in America, is something that is also to be understood. Not left up to those who were willing to do the job for you.
  
  Actions not self-interested(self improvement), are not honest actions. You want to live a certain way, make sure you understand the consequences if you do. All actions have consequences, either physical, mental or emotional.
  
  There seems to be no compromise. That's because people do not understand life or even the basis for rights. Too much misinformation and distortion in the mix.
  
  The "left" blaming the "right" and the "right" blaming the "left". It's a wonder how anything gets through Congress to begin with. Activists, lobbyists and bureaucratic b.s. doesn't help.
  
  Just a lot of smoke blowing.
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  junkoposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  One would have to understand the inter - connectivity of each person's life That concept is universal. It takes all the objects in space to make all the Universe. Everything and everybody depends on everything and everybody to exist. Sounds complicated but it's reaily so simple.
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  lovemychrisposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  That's right! I agree with the Democratic philosophy of gvt! Just because you see things your way, doesn't make it right.
  So please yourself.
  
  You can be as self-sufficient as you want....who's stopping you? It's not YOU they are after to send you back into the stone ages...it's me.
  It's not YOU they want to see barefoot and pregnant and subservient...it's me!
  It's not YOU they want to see locked up in prisons-for-profit, it's minorities and immigrants.
  
  So go on and say "they are all the same" blah blah blah.....that is an opinion, and speaking as a woman, I can tell you they are not!
  
  ANYONE who is going to tell me what I can and can't do with my own reproductive parts is no lover of freedom, nor of women.
  Would that be the Democratic platform, or the Republican?
  
  Obama wants money for infrastucture and green energy--jobs galore!
  
  Cantor says no....but wants to make aide to Israel a permanent part of our budget.
  Are the Republican agenda-setters working on a jobs bill, now that they got their tax-cut?
  No.
  They are working on an abortion bill. To suppress me.
  Obama is for my right to choose my own future. No difference between parties? It's night and day.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Lovemychris, what you fail to understand is that I am on your side with regards to the topic you mentioned. So relax. Take a chill pill.
  
  You should learn how to not be so defensive. I realize the issue with abortions and said rights. I am an advocate for rights. My position is more on an individual basis- wake up people. Increase awareness of a direct path, that leads to overall less government intervention or meddling. Period- end of story.
  
  So, when I speak about government, I speak about all of the misinformation and distortion that is created by them. I do what I can to move the religious folks from their beliefs that they truly know what is best for others, when the truth speaks volumes, that the only authority one needs is to be self-authority. Full command and dominate in life. Those who take on full responsibility for their life, then find the path to take for creating the life they want. True freedom is when government has to help no one, so it can focus on the singular task of domestic protection and foreign threats.
  
  The religious folks and their biblical ways are what's trying to bring about the stone age, and it can only be addressed by more individual people taking full control of their life. Too many religious folk depend on their belief in a god and afterlife. Literally, depend on it. It negate self-responsibility.
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Kangaroo_Jaseposted 13 years ago
So,

If there is a BBQ happening RIGHT NOW, who is cooking up a storm?
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Mighty Momposted 13 years ago
Hello all you hypocritical, God-hating, anti-life socialist control freaks.
How's it going here on the thread?
Is there any point in jumping in or are we pretty much talking amongst ourselves at this point?
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  And what would you like to talk about? Jump in anytime you choose.
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lovemychrisposted 13 years ago
Well, maybe I've got your drift wrong, but you seem to be telling me that I can't be a Democrat...it's too stupid.
You keep saying both parties are the same, gvt is bad, no matter what. I don't feel that way. You can't make me!

And i Hate to tell you, but the religious right have been addressing this issue all along...stealthily little by little since 1973, when the SC agreed that women actually were not children, and had the right to decide their own body's activity.

Snuck on school boards, public offices, positions of power...never really revealing their agenda. Slowly getting laws changed.
Killing doctors, terrorizing women....

And now they control the House.

My only means of freedom is the Democratic party...warts and all.

All I can say is...they are coming after you next. Anyone who won't conform to them will be suppressed!

Is it De-Mint?....SOME T P'er who is running for prez wants to go back and put DADT back in place.
Cantor refuses to fund the healthcare bill....HE has SOLE power in alloting $$.
Abortion is their number one priority.

This country is going to get real ugly unless we all stand up to them.

WE voted for Obama! They always dismiss that!
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Bring them on. I understand my rights and the only way for them to change my path forward is to eliminate me from the picture.
  
  I've no time for games. I have no time for playing the blame game. I have no time for you to play pick a candidate.
  
  Playing pick a candidate has only a little bit of time left. The complete collapse of America, which will bring on a racial civil war is coming.
  
  While you play pick a candidate, and choosing between which party to back? Other people continue to suffer. Rights are being stripped. Corruption? Both business and political.
  
  It starts with the individual. I can understand where the religious folk are coming from, because their argument is morally based. However, anyone who truly understands morals, then also knows that individual rights trumps morality level for society. In a completely civilized society, abortion wouldn't even be mentioned, because rapes wouldn't likely happen, and other people's life would be completely different, and said "unwanted" pregnancies would be so minimized, it wouldn't be funny.
  
  The highest moral ground is to not harm any human organism, and at fertilization of an egg, is the earliest stage of human life. Thus, creating a human organism. So, in essence, you if you had an abortion, would be killing an organism, which would result in the birth of a child. However, you retain your individual right. Make no mistake- the highest moral ground the religious are looking for, will never get what they want. It's a crying shame most of them are not of the mind to grasp, how it is none of their business to begin with.
  
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Mighty Momposted 13 years ago
I simply cannot understand the obsession with abortion.
We're talking about a healthcare revolution that will benefit millions of Americans.
Why are their rights being denied in favor of the non-rights of the unborn?
What do we value in America?
If you are pro-LIFE you should care about ALL Americans.
But that is the opposite of how the Right thinks.
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  outrider2posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Thought I would jump in here, why do you find it hard to be concerned with the killing of babies? Healthcare revolution that will benefit millions of Americans? What planet are you from?
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Your concern should be more on yourself, and leave other people to live their life. You creating interference in their life isn't YOUR right. You over step your role in society.
  I can guess you cannot see outside yourself? That's too bad. If you actually given the above statement, then you would most certainly know a world without abortions, at this time, isn't feasible or even livable. The planet would have too many people, way way way too many people in a very short period of time. Not to mention, there is NO perfect society, when the highest moral ground is achieved. There is a thought you can chew on for a while.
  This comment wasn't called for. It's disrespectful and rude.
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  outrider2posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I'm soory your so sensitive hope I didn't hurt your self esteem. The right to life is the most important part of society and protecting it is of utmost importance. You also might want to do a little research into the sustainable birthrates of countries around the world, because your statement about the world not being sustainable without abortion is absurd. Of course there is no perfect society, protecting the unborn wouldn't make it so, but that doesn't mean its not an extremley important aspect for a productive moral country. Because I can see outside of myself is why I care about the murder of babies. Why don't you chew on that?
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hurt my self-esteem. You're too funny.
  You know, you sound like an activist, from the Christian side. And, you have this understanding of "Right to Life", which is completely foolish in nature. You might want to learn more about "Right to Life" than what you've been spoon fed by the advocate groups in America.
  Yo, dude. Your inability to see things isn't my problem. I realize you've not the ability to grasp the bigger picture. And, still lack understanding of individual rights. So, I guess this is the best you could do on such short notice. Good job.
  Not at the cost of individual rights. No. Individual rights must remain in place. Otherwise, FREEDOM OF CHOICE cannot exist. Got it?
  Actually, you cannot see outside yourself, because just this statement alone, means you didn't understand what I wanted you to chew on? I figured as much, but I figured I give a shot. You cannot see any further than the religious belief you have that your moral standard is better than others. It is sickening. And, had you bother to learn about rights better than you apparently do presently, then you would know that rights are choices. Choices are actions. Actions are tied to moral standards. Individual rights trumps Moral Standard. Get over it already.
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  outrider2posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You see to be pretty impressed with yourself but your projecting your issues onto me. I don't have a problem with the big picture or individual rights. If you can't see past your fascination with individual rights absolutism thats your problem. Respecting life isn't some trivial religious belief its universal except for people so caught up in themselves they can't see the bigger picture. Rights aren't choices and individual rights don't trump moral standards. You might want to take a break from Ayn Rand and expand your horizans.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You're too funny. You don't get dude. Seriously, are my words to complex for you to grasp? I have no issues. I stand to protect and serve American citizens. From the likes of you. You might want to read some of my stuff and find my position on America. I'm sure you're not going to like some of the things I have to say, but don't let your religious view cloud your judgment.
  You see, you lack the ability to see the food chain process. You've put yourself above things. How nice of you?
  Respecting life? You're respecting the process that makes life. But you are disrespecting the person. Yet, you fail to see even that. No your place. If the person knows it kills a human organism(my term ), and she still does it, then she will live with it. It shouldn't matter to you. Yet you don't get it. Abortions are medical procedures offered by the medical science establishment. The services, are legal by government. Even if illegal, they are still going to happen. Outlawing it is foolishness pushed to the extreme toward absurdity.
  
  Abortions the service is just that a service. If you don't want one then don't get one. If a woman has an unwanted pregnancy, government has deemed that woman have the right to get one. This is part of the Equality America- it's called FREEDOM TO CHOOSE or Right of Choice. Without abortions, a pregnancy must go full term. In some cases, it ruins more lives than any gift could possible ever return.
  Expand my horizon? You're too funny. You need to learn your place and just maybe grasp a little understanding, compassion and possibly love along the way.
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  outrider2posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You obviously have a lot of issues. You protect America from the likes of me? Pro-lifers? Christians? People who believe in God? Talk about about having a high opinion of oneself. While I do respect the process that makes life,plus its fun but I do not disrespect the person especially the baby person. You disrespect the woman by pushing the killing or her child instead of offering help. I need to learn my place? You ego is writing checks your intellect can't cash. But I have to admit you are funny.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  No dear man, I don't have issue. America has issues. Don't make this out about me. Because, it's not.
  Yes, people like you, who cannot grasp the concept that they need to mind their own damn business. You've no need to be in the private affairs of others. Get out!
  Have a high opinion of myself? Oh, so you think I have an ego or am arrogant. Yet, my clarity continues to show your weaknesses. Thank you though. It is an interesting thought- maybe you might like to read a hub I wrote- The Human Ego and How To See Past It? - You might learn something. Because, apparently you're not understanding the words that I am typing.
  No degrade the mother. You disrespect the person who has to deal with the situation. And, when they don't agree, you make them feel bad by calling them murderers. Gotta love that compassion and love you spread.
  Abortion is a choice or haven't you been following along? No one is pushing anyone into having one. So give it a break.
  Really, you need to learn your place. My ego has nothing to do with what I am doing. I find it appalling you find what I am saying as funny. Such a waste.
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  outrider2posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It is about you and your arrogence. What you think is clarity is shallow thinking and narrow-mindness. Unless you live in a vaccum the private lives of people sometimes do intrude. The sanctity of live is more important them your pompous, delusional and self-important ramblings and shows respect for all involved,to bad you can't grasp that. If more people stood up against abortion and offered to help instead of rationalizing it away like you maybe there would be less of them. I not only find your suppossed reasoning funny but non-sensical.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Ignorance must be blissful. God's way or no way. Delusions of grandeur. Go away man. You disrespect everything about human being and living life. You don't even learn from your own religious teachings, yet spout off about a god that doesn't exist.
  
  How nice of you, for you to live in a restricted bubble. As for my clarity my dear man. You'd be surprised. At least I can think out a complete thought. As much cannot be said for so many others.
  
  What a shame?
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  outrider2posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Promoting life makes me disrespectful. The vast majority of people believe in God. It's not just about God it's about universal truths which anyone with common sense and an open mind can see. You are the one that lives in a bubble and have a narrow view of things. Its to bad you cannot see the beauty of the world around you. How sad.
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  lovemychrisposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Planet Reality.
  A baby is only a baby if I choose to allow it to be so...sorry to tell you.
  That's Mother Nature.
  
  Now, if you drop a bomb on a baby, or shoot it with a gun, or shower it with white phosphorous....that's Man-Nature. That goes on everyday. Real, Live, Breathing...HERE human beings. Treated like collateral damage.
  
  Or they come into this world unwanted and experience a living hell. You would not want to know some of what happens to these kids. You would not.
  
  So, since you have no business to concern yourself with my private life...why don't you concern yourself with public atrocities....like war, gun violence, poverty and child abuse?
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  outrider2posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  A baby is only a baby if you allow it? I don't know what is more astounding your arrogence or ignorance. So if I follow your logic if a child might have a bad life it should be killed? How many people do you know that have not had bad things or even horrible things happen to them? I don't know any, but that doesn't negate the amazing things in life it just makes them sweeter. I have absolutley no interest in your private life and I am concerned about war,poverty,child abuse AND abortion. I'm a multi-tasker.
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  lovemychrisposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  "I have absolutley no interest in your private life"....Unless I get pregnant, huh?
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  outrider2posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Then its not just your life its a innocent babies llife too. Is that really that hard to understand?
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  lovemychrisposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Is it YOUR sperm involved?
  
  If not,then it's none of your business! Is that too hard to understand?
  
  It's so simple, it makes me wonder what the real issue is here. Because if you cared about life, you would jump on the bandwagon for healthcare, livable wages, affordable housing, stopping the unrelenting greed of big business--which makes it a struggle just to survive--....clean air, food and water.....No More War. STRICT gun control....
  
  All the things the so-called pro-lifers fight tooth and nail.
  
  It's an issue with women I think.
  Because, even Princess Diana said: "If men were the ones to have babies, abortion would be safe, legal and commonplace." (something like that...couldn't find her original quote)
  And she's right...I've seen it whenever you have a single father...people praise him to high heaven about what a wonderful person he is...how sacrificing, etc. They don't make him feel like a piece of crap, like they do single moms.
  
  And stalking and terrorizing women and doctors shows how little they think of us. How much they really DON'T value freedom. OR life. IMO
  
  SORRY to go back here...but I made the mistake of reading the thread when we got up. And it is apparently the main issue for the new House leaders...so I'm making it mine.
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  outrider2posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Trying to protect life is everyones problem. If you have no respect for the unborn that doesn't mean I don't. And no I wn't jump on the bandwagon of a pathetic human being expecting the government to take care of all my needs because I'm jto lazy. Big business has helped make the US one of the most prosperous and generous countries ever. We have the most clean water and air of all time. You need to stop reading Liberal talking points like they were actually true. Maybe if you stopped blaming everyone else for problems you would have a better and more realistic look on life.
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  lovemychrisposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I blame Republican money-favoring policies for the down-fall of America...with a lot of Blue-dog dems thrown in there as well.
  I have great respect for life...that's why I don't want it brought here to experience HELL just so you can have your conscience salved, by thinking that you're serving God.
  
  It's the woman's conscience that counts, NOT yours.
  
  You run your life, let me run mine.
  
  I will face God in my own time....as will you.
  
  Our air and water is not clean. Nor is our food supply.Business puts money above all else..that is no way to run a country! In fact, it's dam stupid!
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  Jillian Barclayposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  How right you are! Always amazes me! The GOP wants to outlaw abortion, but they also want to outlaw any program to take care of children that are already here. Disgusting? I think so!
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  outrider2posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I don't want to outlaw programs that help to take care of children. But just so I get your point if the government won't take care of your child it should be killed?
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  Jillian Barclayposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I am so sorry! I misspoke (what a strange word)! I should not have suggested that the Republican party wants to outlaw programs that take care of living children. They simply want to cut funding for every single program designed to help children.
  
  As far as your other point...I have no idea what you are talking about. Kill my children if the government won't take care of them? As that great linguist from the state of Alaska would say, "WTF?"
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  outrider2posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yes they want to defund every program designed top help children and starve them to. You implied that the government wants to outlaw abortion but also wants to defund programs that help children, as if the government should have the resposibility to take care of them if they are born.
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  No one is advocating the killing of children. Stating that they are is simply a lie. If you want to argue a point, you should do so with integrity.
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  outrider2posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  If you can look at an ultra-sound and say that it is not a baby then you need help. Calling me a lier doesn't change the fact that it's a baby.
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Mighty Momposted 13 years ago
outrider2 -- You have just proved my point.
Your comment confirms that you do not care about people when they are alive, only when they are in utero.
The health care bill is all about caring for people of all ages -- including babies.
It just blows my mind that opponents focus on this one small non-issue.
It's like you want to throw the proverbial baby out with the bathwater.
Are you really unable to see the big picture?
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  outrider2posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  How you can take being pro-life as not caring about people when they are alive escapes me. You will have to explain, I guess I'm slow.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Not caring enough to mind their own business, instead of pushing a moral standard that cannot ever exist, due to individual rights.
  
  Be caring that the person doesn't take their own life when they get pregnant because it's the final straw that broke the camels back. The hopeless will do hopeless things. They will see every negative aspect of their life, in an enhanced view and if the child is unwanted, then you lose two for the price of one.
  
  To force a woman to carry full term isn't always in a woman's best interest. Too many factors for society to deal with. Therefore, society shouldn't have a hand in it to begin with.
  
  Be caring to learn about each case individually and why it happened. Put your focus on compassion and love, and learn about people. Right now, you're just spouting hate.
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  outrider2posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  By promoting a prolife message I'm sprouting hate? You are the one pushing a cynical and negative message. Instead of killing a baby because a women gets depressed about being pregnate, why not offer services to help both thru a difficult time? Just because you keep saying that a moral standard cannot exist doesn't make it so. Also I think it would be compassionate to focus on the woman and the baby. If you think that is sprouting hate, you are a narrow minded person who can't see outside of themselves.
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Mighty Momposted 13 years ago
Intentionally (or not) you have just made the case for the health care law.
According to your own logic, the rights of individuals to refuse health care while transferring the financial burden of their consumption of health care onto those who are insured do not trump "moral standards" of making healthcare a RIGHT and providing it to ALL citizens. That is a moral standard the president is trying to set for our citizens.
But again, you are only concerned with one procedure that affects only women of child-bearing age and not all women by any stretch. You are missing the big picture. Or maybe you are shutting your eyes and heart to it.
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  outrider2posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Its possible you are mixing part of my post with someone else. But I will answer. You, the president, or me cannot make anything a Right. What you consider a right is just a privilage granted by whomever is in power and therfore is at risk of being taken away or changed at any time. The only RIGHTS we have are granted by God whether you believe or not. I do transfer my healthcare onto anybody. If I was not to pay then they would hound me until I did or garnish my wages or screw up my credit. But you are missing the bigger point, which is that the reasons healthcare is so expensive in the first place. I don't have the desire or inclination to go into the varied reasons for the high cost of healthcare but I will say that expecting a Government run system to be efficient or actually provide adequate care is breaking the bounds of creduality. Ever hear of the post office? Amtrak?Student Loans?Medicare?VA? Plus think about this; if obamacare is so wonderful why does it not apply to the congress or its staffers? Why are so many unions getting waivers? Why was it ruled unconstitutonal?
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  More religious beliefs on display. You know, you have the freedom to practice your religious beliefs, but you have no right to infer rights are given upon people from a god.
  
  This is your problem. Go learn the difference. Human Rights, as I advocate, are unlimited. The Civil Rights of American citizens play a secondary subset, simply because of Government.
  
  Individual rights trumps society. The only time individual rights get trumped is when it's a detriment to society as a whole or to the human species. Otherwise, individual rights remain in place, to enforce equality(not entitlement).
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  outrider2posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Actually I do have the right to infer rights are given by God. You don't think that killing 50 million people is detrimental? Just out of curiousity, equality of what?
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  How many innocent victims does your invisible sky fairy claim to have slaughtered?
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  Jim Hunterposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  My God says the Colts are an overrated Pop Warner team.
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Mighty Momposted 13 years ago
This is where I got that impression. Directly from your own post.
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  outrider2posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  And I apoligize to all for spelling and grammer but I am trying to answer three people.
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Mighty Momposted 13 years ago
Quote from President Obama during his Bill O'Reilly interview before Sunday's Super Bowl.
What the health care bill says is that if you are happy with the coverage you have, you can KEEP IT. That includes Congress. They get to keep the coverage they have.
There is no public option in the plan that passed Congress.
Extending health care coverage to the millions of Americans who currently do not have it -- either they have been turned down due to preexisting conditions, they lost their job and can't get individual coverage, or it's simply too expensive, is what this bill is about.

We do have RIGHTS as American citizens. Or maybe you haven't heard of a document called the Constitution (?)
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  outrider2posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I have heard of the Constitution and healthcare is not a right in that document. Also that is why T Jefferson made sure to write that Our Rights came from our Creator. This was in our other founding document The Declaration of Independence or maybe you haven't heard of that?
  And about that ability to keep your coverage if you want to; how will you do that if your company doesn't provide it anymore because the government makes it to expense and easier to transfer over to the government?
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Mighty Momposted 13 years ago
Jillian,
I can always count on you to bring a reasoned argument to the table. You make perfect sense! No wonder no one argues with you!
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Mighty Momposted 13 years ago
You do not disrespect the person (what person?)
Especially the baby person (what baby person?

Pro-choice people do respect the woman. We don't "push the killing of her child." Far from it. We advocate sex education so that women/girls (and men/boys) understand how to avoid pregnancy. We advocate readily available birth control so that fewer unintended pregnancies occur.
When they do occur -- and no birth control method is 100% effective -- we advocate allowing the woman to choose.
Categorically making that choice for her, as so-called "pro-lifers" want to legislate -- is the highest form of disrespect.

I suppose you'd be happy if we also have arranged marriages and don't allow women to work, just stay home and pump out baby after baby.
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  outrider2posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  The woman having the baby and the baby??? When the woman does get pregnate you let her decide? how about the father? Arranged marriage and pump out babies? you sure do know how to make a leap. Talk about issues.
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  Mighty Momposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It's up to the woman how to involve the father in her decision. Obviously if she has been raped she probably doesn't feel much of an obligation to consult her rapist. Same in cases of incest and abuse.
  It's not an easy decision for any woman -- or couple -- to have to make. But given that it's the woman who gets pregnant the ultimate decision is hers.
  
  Yes, I do have the ability to make leaps. That is most likely because I think for myself and don't have my opinions force fed to me so that I can regurgitate them back.
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  outrider2posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Its up to the woman because she is the one pregnate? what about the 18 yrs of child support a man would end up paying? The rape and incest is a straw man argument since they only involve a very small percentage.
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Stevennix2001posted 13 years ago
you know, probably the simplest and best solution would probably be to have every newborn baby boy's tubes tied, then he can't get a girl knocked up. however, if he ever wants a child someday, then he'd have to get a parenting license along with his partner. this way, both sides wouldn't have to worry about abortion, and everyone wins because it would create more of a population control. Plus, it would probably reduce the significant amount of orphans and abused children in this country, as some people just aren't meant to be parents...

Then again, what do I know, as I doubt anyone here will listen to what i have to say anyway. Everyone wants to see things from their own narrow minded perspective, yet they fail to see that both parties really don't have any control over this country as much as they think. this country is first and foremost a capitalistic society that was bought and paid for a long time ago. A country that represents freedom? don't make me laugh. In Africa, the usa trades there all the time, and our government doesn't give a damn how poorly the rights of the people there have it. Yet we'll proudly say that one of the reasons we invaded Iraq is for iraqi freedom. What a joke.

secondly, you all do realize that thanks to the patriot act, some of your rights have already been revoked, but you don't realize it. For instance, the FBI has various dummy accounts on several online social sites like Facebook AND they don't need a warrant to tap your phone lines if they suspect you of illegal activities. the reality is that this country is a nation full of hypocracy that's only going to get worse before it gets better.
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  outrider2posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Or teach and expect people to have some responsibility and accountability.
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  Stevennix2001posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah, but people don't think that way though. Heck, just look at the forums. People all the time whine and b*** about how they hate the religious and political forums, and Edweirdo even has a feature for them to download to block forum categories, but they still participate in it anyways. Go figure I guess. Participate in something that you hate really makes a lot of sense. By the way, that's sarcasm there. not at you, but at the hypocrites out there. Trust me, if it were as simple as people taking in accountability and responsibility, then the country wouldn't have as many problems as it does today.
  
  For one, there certainly wouldn't be as many homeless people walking the street expecting a damn hand out, and the illegal immigration problem would be drastically reduced, as they're only taking majority of the jobs that most americans don't want. you know janitorial, house cleaning, gardening jobs and such. the ones that some homeless guy with a degree feels too good to do, so he'd rather collect welfare instead.
  
  secondly, you wouldn't have all these uptight american citizens that somehow feel it's our job to infer our moral code onto other countries, when we should be focusing on our own problems first domestically. Instead of pointing the finger at others, we'd be focusing on the problems themselves. In presidential debates, they would elaborate more on EXACTLY what they would do to improve our country rather than try to make the other candidate look bad.
  
  However, America doesn't want to hear anything about taking responsibility or accountability. They just want to hear that we're number 1 and how it's someone else that's to blame. Take the film, "Gung Ho", for instance, as I thought Keaton hit it on the head when his character made the speech how Americans just want to hear how great we are, but they don't want to put in the same amount of work and responsibility another country like Japan, China or others would put into something. Sadly, I'm afraid that's becoming more of our reality, as Americans have a urgent sense of entitlement.
  
  Take the topic that was widely popular on here for a while, when many hubbers were defending a man's right to free speech over a book on "How to be a pedophile", yet many of those same hubbers condemned another hubber for writing a hub on male dominance. A hub that spoke about the role of men in marriages. Not that I agree with that hub per say, but I certainly don't think what's in it is anywhere near as dangerous as the "How to be a pedophile" book is. However, what they fail to understand is the dangerous ramifications of that book, yet they were quick to point out the dangerous ramifications of that hub. Gee, isn't it funny on how people only see what they want to see, and never want to see the big picture about anything.
  
  Personally, I think we're a nation of freaking hypocrites that need to wake up and learn that our sense of entitlement crap is just that...crap. We need to start focusing on our own problems before we start looking at other countries and condemning them for their ways. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for helping others, but to quote Barry Bonds:
  
  "If your going to criticize me, then you need to clean out YOUR OWN skeletons FIRST!"
  
  Anyways, I should tell you that it's probably not a good idea to use the notion or logic of god in forums to defend your arguments, as most hubbers that participate in forums are atheists. Don't get me wrong, there's plenty that aren't, but I'm just saying, so you won't keep getting yourself in trouble with some of our other hubbers here.
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Mighty Momposted 13 years ago
Why the hell not? If the government removes the responsibility for bearing or not bearing the child from the mother (in other words, FORCES HER to have the child), why should it then not also have the responsibility for the child?
The whole idea behind pregnancy termination is that the mother, for whatever reasons (that are none of your or the government's business) determines that she cannot care for the child.

Basically, you want to have your cake and eat it too.
You want to control the outcome of the pregnancy but wash your hands of responsibility for the outcome of the birth.

Tell me you do not see the hypocrisy in that!!!!
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  outrider2posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  pregnacy termination? why not call it what it is,killing a baby. If a baby is truly unwanted then there are people and organizations that would help including the government. That was pretty much my whole point, you and everyone else seem to think that if a pregnancy might be difficult just go ahead and kill it, no big deal. That lack of respect for life not only ends up in dead babies but leads to a myriad of other social problems. The tone of the post also makes it seem as if you expect absolutley no personal responsibility or accountability from anyone.
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Mighty Momposted 13 years ago
Couple of final points.
1.The government does not want to outlaw abortion. The government has made it legal.
A vocal right-wing faction wants abortion to be restricted and restricted some more and ultimately have Roe v. Wade overturned.
2. Getting back to your argument about respecting women.
I find it fascinating that you immediately jump to "what about the 18 years of child support the father would end up paying?"
By that logic wouldn't the father be relieved/happy that his partner chooses not to have the child? Look at all the money it saves him -- not unlike the money the government saves on each potentially welfare-dependent or child protective services or juvenile justice problem child. So really, women having abortions actually saves our government money! You would think that these hardcore "reduce the deficit" proponents(example: Michelle Bachmann) would be thrilled with the idea of abortion!
3. Finally, I will say again what I have said before. Until you have faced the condundrum of an unplanned/unwanted pregnancy yourself, you have no idea how utterly terrifying it is.
Of course everyone is entitled to their opinion and free speech is guaranteed in this country. However, your opinion would be a lot stronger if you walked a mile in my shoes -- or the shoes of any pregnant woman. I'm not saying men can't have an opinion on this issue. But unless you can demonstrate what YOU are doing to help unwed mothers or single mothers care for their children or anything POSITIVE to back up your right-to-lifer claims, you have zero credibility with me.
Stepping down off my soapbox now and going to bed.
Man. I sure hope I don't wake up pregnant tomorrow
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  Jillian Barclayposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I went to bed before I read your (as usual)lucid,common sense response. Decided that arguing was just going to raise my blood pressure and was obviously going to go nowhere. The funny thing was that I was going to make some last comment about waking up pregnant, too! Between you and me, that would be a disaster! After discussing my chin and neck (our special club members' secret handshake) with you, I knew that you would find it funny, but no one else would understand...
  
  So, I woke up this morning and you made me laugh! Great way to start my day! Thank you! Notice that Evan came out after we left, but I think he was in capable hands (thank you, LMC!).
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  lovemychrisposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Oh Jillian....I have 3 daughters! And I have a mom and dad who always fought for women's rights.
  
  And I know why.....my mom was a real bright student...her teachers always encouraged her to go on to college...blossom her talent!
  But her father said.."Why do you need to go to college? You're just going to get married and have kids."
  
  So, he saved his money for my mom's brother to go to school and blossom his talent instead. My parents vowed to treat their kids equally--no matter the gender.
  
  So--if some MEN are going to tell ME MY kid will be FORCED to carry a pregnancy to term.....because THEY say so????
  Ohhh, wrath of Khan!
  
  And I could never abort...I just couldn't. And in fact, my daughter got pregnant at 17. And she didn't abort either...but, the option was there....and let me tell you--that was such a HUGE gift!!! Knowing that IF it just couldn't be, it didn't have to be.
  
  Like my sister, who did have an abortion. Because her husband is a Hemophiliac, and my sister just couldn't look after a child and her husband. Would you force her to give birth--go through all that and give it away??? SHAME on you!
  
  No....this is a hard-fought medical and life NECESSITY. The hell if you white phosphorous-bombing, priest child-molesting, native American genociding Fundies will take it away!
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  Jillian Barclayposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I am glad that there are still women who stand up for their own rights and the rights of their daughters. My grandmother, who was born in 1908, died 9 years ago at the age of 93, and she would tell me stories, and I learned alot. She was 12 when women were finally allowed to vote and she told me of women that were beaten by their husbands for going to suffragette meetings or protests. Despite being born so long ago, she never forgot the horrors that too many women lived through.
  
  She would tell me about the tragic results of back-room abortions. She said there was always someone in every neighborhood(NY) that was an abortionist. Many of her friends died trying to end unwanted pregnancies. She told me how some women would actually ingest arsenic or some other poison after sex as a method of birth control. Horrible!
  
  Birth control and abortion are LEGAL in this country, and there are too many women that have daughters and even grandmothers that will fight for a woman's right to choose.
  
  We will not go back! Until I can no longer stand, I will stand up for my daughters and my granddaughter! Back room abortions performed by butchers? Not in this country! Never again!
  
  A woman's body is her own. It belongs to her and only her.
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  outrider2posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I do help unwed mothers but more importantly there is a vast array of people and orginazations that do a lot to help a women thru a tough pregnacy.
  Why would it matter if you woke up pregnate? No big deal abortion is legal so just go terminate it on your to get coffee.
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Mighty Momposted 13 years ago
Cags,
I'm leaving this in your capable hands, sir.
It's not often (actually, I can't remember a single other time) that I hear YOU criticized as arrogant!! *snort* *snort* *guffaw*
At least I'm heading to be laughing (with you, certainly never AT you!)

Night!
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Kangaroo_Jaseposted 13 years ago
OK so it is obviously a no on the BBQ then
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Daniel Carterposted 13 years ago
From all the hate speech in this thread, maybe we shouldn't outlaw abortion simply because those people are going to grow up and most of them will either be conservative or liberal, thus creating more problems for the world. Because whether you're conservative or liberal, you're going to be a problem to your opposing side.

Is that what you all want? You don't want to rest until "the other side" is done away, destroyed and off the earth?

Isn't this kind of like ethnic cleansing?

And how's that workin' to help mankind?

Just wondering.
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  outrider2posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Anytime people disagree it's hate speech now?
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  Jim Hunterposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, the left defines hate quite differently.
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  Daniel Carterposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Again, your mistake, I'm not a lib, nor am I conservative. I don't believe in joining either of these false religions.
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  Jim Hunterposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Its not my mistake, who said anything about you?
  
  I didn't respond to your post.
  
  But...you're a lefty
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  Daniel Carterposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Ah, my mistake....and yours.
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  Jim Hunterposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Where are all of your conservative arguments?
  
  I made no mistakes.
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  Daniel Carterposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I don't believe in big government. I'm not an Obama fan, I voted for Bush the first term (and regretted it like a lot of people), I thought McCain should have won the election because he's methodical and somewhat foresightful, even though he lacks verbal eloquence.
  
  I also think Cheney ought to be in prison, that Bush ought to be penalized for going along with Cheney and making him VP, and I think Sarah Palin is an imbecile.
  
  I'm not really one or the other (liberal or conservative). I think both sides are deplorable and miss the point of how life can be good with some cooperation. And that may be one of liberal traits. If it is, then it is.
  
  But since you have a preconceived notion of who/what I am, it probably falls on deaf ears, so to speak.
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  Daniel Carterposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Loss and lack of respect, insults, demeaning remarks, etc., constitute hate speech. Purposely making insulting generalizations and blanket statements of groups of people might also fit in this area. Don't tell me you can't find any in this thread.
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  outrider2posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I was defending the right to life not a demaning position. But when people get arrogent and condescending I just can't help to flip them some sh*t. STill not hate speech, debate is good.
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  BillyDRitchieposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Lack of respect? Insults?
  
  Wow, how do you spell "thin skinned"?
  
  Especially coming from the left who never fail to reach new lows when it comes to personally attacking, degrading, and insulting people.
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  Daniel Carterposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Point is do you want to live in a perpetually hostile world? Agreeing to disagree is an option. Agreeing to disagree doesn't preclude you from believing and doing as you see fit. I personally feel this is a better option. Disagreeing and examining our belief systems is good. Attacks don't foster anything but an additional attack.
  
  I think people who like to attack other's views are addicted to the rush of the attack. That would be classified as unhealthy thinking.
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Evan G Rogersposted 13 years ago
Here's a pretty good article talking about how the left takes credit for things that others do...

http://mises.org/daily/5034/Obama-on-Au … rigerators

Many lefties argue that the right does the same thing.

So... it's hypocrisy on both sides.
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SomewayOuttaHereposted 13 years ago
...g'mornin' all!...

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  outrider2posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Perfect, now I can head to work stress free.
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  Daniel Carterposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Always love seeing you around, someway!
  Good morning to you, and thanks for the giggles!
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Mighty Momposted 13 years ago
Bill Weld! I haven't thought of him in a long time!
Great example of the best of both philosophies in one.
Socially liberal, fiscally responsible. And that is NOT an oxymoron!

I hereby declare myself a member of the Weldian party
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  lovemychrisposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Ahaha--he was a character too. Once he lost a bet and jumped into the Boston Harbor...he may have been drunk at the time too!!
  
  But--his big downfall was the big dig....ane he was best buds with Bechtel Boss.
  
  But yes...a lot of people liked his politics! Left AND right!
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Mighty Momposted 13 years ago
Ah yes. The Big Dig! Tell me, is it finished yet ?
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Mighty Momposted 13 years ago
The car insurance analogy doesn't work for that very reason.
We don't HAVE to have a car. I wouldn't go so far as to say it's a luxury, but it's not a basic human "need" either. For the vast majority of Americans, it is a necessity, tho...

Health care IS a basic human need. Some need more health care than others, but everyone will at some point in their life need to interface with a medical practitioner.
BTW, immunizations and physical exams are already mandated by law to attend school. If you can't prove you've had your shots and seen a pediatrician, you can't enter public kindergarden!
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  lady_love158posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  A "need" is not a "right", and neither is an education for that matter, yet another service the government has a proven track record of failure in!
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Mighty Momposted 13 years ago
I was waiting for this argument to rear its ugly head.

Who is this really aimed at? Certainly not the male sex partner. His "responsibility and accountability" begins with putting on a condom* and ends when it breaks. Oops!

*That's assuming he will even wear one, because you know, it reduces his pleasure and we can't have that, can we???!!! So in point of fact, who is ultimately responsible for birth control? The woman!

Whether she wants it or not, it's the woman who must take responsibility for an unplanned pregnancy. It is up to her to define what the "responsible" course of action is, based on her own circumstances. Those circumstances are nobody's business but hers. And the decision she makes will follow her the rest of her life -- whether she has and keeps the baby, has and gives the baby up for adoption, or terminates the pregnancy.

Believe it or not, most people do have a conscience and make their own decision accordingly.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Thumbs UP Might Mom!
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  Stevennix2001posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I couldn't agree with you more. I think when it comes to sex BOTH parties need to take precautions to prevent unwanted and unexpected pregnancies. Good call on this mighty mom.
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lovemychrisposted 13 years ago
This is really cute!!
Song about a little fetus in the womb:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGuzvPpTCgg
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Doug Hughesposted 13 years ago
I have a hard time figuring out WTF LaLo is unhappy about. Public Officials move in and out of the private sector and make gobs of money. Hear of Haliburton?

There is NO CHANCE that republicans would introduce a bill which will prohibit going from government to business. If democrats proposed it, LaLO would scream that it's unconstitutional. So just what would LaLo propose that would be binding on republicans also?
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