HubPro Blog Post

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   Christy Kirwanposted 9 years ago

   Hi there, friends! Check out yesterday's blog post for the latest on HubPro plus tips on doing your own HubPro-style edits for those who are not yet eligible.
   
   Happy Hubbing!

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      Rangoon Houseposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Thank you Christy. Heading there now.

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      colorfuloneposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      With an open-mind, I visited the three hubs HP has featured on the blog after reading the comments in the forums on a couple of threads about them. There is always room for improvements where humans are involved. I feel that constructive criticisms do help Hubbers and the site as a whole.
      
      Maybe I will be able to have a creative idea for a new hub that will generate lots of views and viewer satisfaction.
      
      Thank you!

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      Tom Ramstackposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Can you think of any good tips to get my Hubs into the 90s. If so, I'd love to hear it.

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         TIMETRAVELER2posted 9 years agoin reply to this

         I took a quick look at your profile topics and one of your articles.  Most appear to me to be something that you would read in a newspaper with newspaper headlines.  None that I saw were evergreen topics and the one I did read was incredibly short.
         
         Writing online is different than writing for hard copy, especially newspaper writing.  Your articles are mostly  "here today, gone tomorrow" topics that few would search for because they see them on the news every day.
         
         Your writing skills are excellent, but you need to adapt them if you want to pursue online writing.  You need to take a look at some of the articles here on HP by writers such as Patty Inglish, Relache, Writer Fox and Marisa Wright, among others, or for that matter, anybody who has a hubber score of 90 or above to get a feel for what I am talking about.
         
         Titles must be search friendly and enticing, you need enticing photos...several of them...that you accredit  and place properly, and articles really need to be more than 700 words:  1000 is good, 1200 -1500 are great.
         
         So, there you go.  Do some reading.  It will help you quite a bit.  Good luck.

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            RonElFranposted 9 years agoin reply to this

            I think TT2 has given you good advice. After looking at your profile, I think you certainly have the credentials and knowledge to turn some of your topics into hubs that will be evergreen - at least until the law changes again! Based on the one hub I looked at, regarding suing property owners for housing discrimination, a very big issue is the amount of in-depth material in your hubs. That one is just 331 words, well below what HubPages would like to see. It will be difficult for your hubs to be highly rated at that length.

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               Tom Ramstackposted 9 years agoin reply to this

               Thank you. I really do appreciate your comment.

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            Tom Ramstackposted 9 years agoin reply to this

            Thank you for your excellent advice. I'll have to figure out how to put it into practice now.

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   paradigm searchposted 9 years ago

   
   Your blog post successfully enticed me to change my top-of-page images to full-width on four of my hubs.

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      TIMETRAVELER2posted 9 years agoin reply to this

      This is interesting because last year I put a wide photo at the top of every single hub and the bottom fell out of my views completely.  I lost 90%!  Now I generally post an introduction followed by a wide photo, and views are coming back.  Whether these things have anything to do with one another, I don't know...but it will be a long time before I ever start a hub again with a full width photo.  To me, they take space that Google wants for advertising.  I may be wrong about this, but something happened last year and I do not want to tempt fate.

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         Marisa Wrightposted 9 years agoin reply to this

         My own personal view of this, which I think I expressed at the time, is that the photo has to be chosen VERY carefully.
         
         If someone comes to a Hub and sees a photo that relates to their search perfectly, they'll go on reading.  If it's not totally relevant, they'll click back. 
         
         My favourite example is of a Hub on how to fish for trout.   If the "hero shot" is of the author holding a big fat trout, then that gives the reader confidence the author is a knowledgeable trout fisherman - so he'll go on reading.  If the shot is of a family having fun fishing, the reader is more likely to think "this guy's an amateur" and click back to find someone who can give him more serious advice.
         
         So yes, I do think a big opening photo can be counterproductive if it's the wrong photo, because it means the reader can't even see your information-rich first paragraph.

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            agvulpesposted 9 years agoin reply to this

            Totally agree +

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            susi10posted 9 years agoin reply to this

            +1

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            Christy Kirwanposted 9 years agoin reply to this

            Excellent point, Marisa. Thank you.

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   LongTimeMotherposted 9 years ago

   I looked at your blog, Christie. It was making good sense until I looked at your examples of great hubs.
   
   You lost me at the point when I was expected to believe the words cocaine, slut and f*cker were appropriate in a "great" hub's text ... and the images you chose to illustrate how hubs should be readied for pinterest included the f-bomb with ALL its letters in place - plus another image with a spelling mistake.
   
   If that's what Hub-Pro style edits look like, I don't like them.

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      relacheposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      That pretty much summarizes my feelings.

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      Jodahposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      I agree, not the best examples and the third hub recommended has at least one spelling mistake in bold type so it stands out.

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      Christy Kirwanposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Hi LTM,
      
      I agree that these Hubs are not the best possible examples of the HubPro process (they were done in the earlier, experimental stage of Editing as well). However, the fact is that these Hubs saw a huge surge in traffic and tremendous gains in reader satisfaction after editing and are currently extremely successful Hubs on HubPages, in terms of traffic right now.
      
      I guess what I'm saying is that I felt that the benefit of sharing a format that readers seem to love with Hubbers outweighed some of the issues with these Hubs. Hopefully some will find the information useful.

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         LongTimeMotherposted 9 years agoin reply to this

         Okay, Christy. The lesson I'm learning is I should put my mind in the gutter, swear a lot, make spelling mistakes and - after a closer look at the hubber profile of the 'Kickass Shots' hub - follow only 4 people, write only 8 hubs, and have no recent activity.
         
         Then I can expect help from HP to generate a huge surge in traffic and tremendous gains in reader satisfaction ... and I can reap the rewards of having extremely successful hubs - with little or no effort or involvement from me.
         
         All this time I've been doing everything wrong.
         
         F*ck, I'd bedda go un rooin sum of my hubs an git rid of thu long an propper ones.

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            Christy Kirwanposted 9 years agoin reply to this

            HubPro does focus on Hubs that are already high traffic, so whatever you and I may think of the subject matter, it certainly is popular among readers!
            
            But in all seriousness, we want HubPages to always remain a place where great writers like you can showcase their work and gain an audience, as well as traffic and earnings. One of the ways we are working to make that possible is by aggressively removing spam and low-quality articles. But we know we can have the most impact with Google by fixing up the content that already has the most eyes on it (Hubs like the ones listed). By improving reader experience with these Hubs, we believe traffic to the site as a whole will increase.

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               sockiiposted 9 years agoin reply to this

               So I can just make a great hub out of generic shot recipes with derogatory names, right? That's far more valuable to HubPages right now than pages based on my own personal experience traveling, cooking and dealing with health issues that have been flagged as "spam".
               
               Got it.

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               LongTimeMotherposted 9 years agoin reply to this

               Oh, Christy. You frighten me. You just wrote, "it certainly is popular among readers!"
               
               Go back and look at that hub. That hub is not attracting readers; there's nothing to read. It is attracting party-animals, kids who want to see all four letters of f*ck in print, alcoholics present and future and a bunch of other visitors ... but surely you can't honestly believe visitors to that hub represent 'readers'!! What is there to read?
               
               I thought this was a site for writers ... to attract readers.
               
               Not only is your definition of 'quality' different to mine, but so is your definition of 'readers'. If you referred to 'hits' or 'visitors' I would have understood.
               
               But OMG. Is this the kind of visitor you're trying to attract?
               
               Do us a favour, Christy. Please copy the list of 'search results' from that hub so we can see just what those 'readers' were looking for when they found that 'quality' hub.
               
               Or are they all thrill-seeking pinterest views?

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                  Phyllis Doyleposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                  Excellent, LTM - excellent post. Hats off to you.

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                     LongTimeMotherposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                     As long as its only your hat, Phyllis.
                     
                     Now who is going to ask why that hub is not an 'Editor's Choice' if it is so darned brilliant and popular with readers? You or me?
                     
                     Heck, why don't we both ask? I'll start ...
                     
                     What about it, Christy? Is it Editor's Choice material?

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                        Shades-of-truthposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                        Ask for me, too. I really do not get it.

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               Marisa Wrightposted 9 years agoin reply to this

               "we know we can have the most impact with Google by fixing up the content that already has the most eyes on it"
               
               This is an interesting statement, since everyone knows that a site's Panda score is based on the WORST posts on the site, regardless of how good the best posts are.

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                  Shades-of-truthposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                  +1

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         sockiiposted 9 years agoin reply to this

         I am not comfortable keeping any of my content on a site that deems pages with vulgar words and insults to women as examples of "great Hubs". Clearly my standards and HubPages standards are in gross opposition. Why couldn't you have picked out at least some examples that weren't full of vulgarity and examples of derogatory words and illegal drugs? I mean, seriously? Because it brings in readers when it's just cocktail recipes that anyone can pull off any website these days, and it really no original content (beyond a few photos implying "slut" status and pearl necklaces, pills next to a drink named "Liquid Cocaine". Yes, I'm getting all of the implications there.)
         
         I'm sorry but I am far from a prude and I have major ethical issues with this, especially when I have had a hub flagged in the past for using one of these words only as an example of a disgusting insult toward women, yet here as a drink shot name it should be glorified according to HP.
         
         Really, I'm kind of outraged and stupefied by this.

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            Shades-of-truthposted 9 years agoin reply to this

            sockii, I don't blame you one bit. I am likewise outraged and stupefied.
            
            Just perusing some Hubs in this last week, I found a LOT of Hubs that had similar content. It is unfathomable, the "nit-picking" that has been directed to Hubbers with great content but a lot of products, when Hubs like the "Kickass Shots" are chosen to represent - I "guess" - what HP HQ wants. They will not be getting that type of content from me.

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         Phyllis Doyleposted 9 years agoin reply to this

         Christy, I am shocked and outraged that the hub "Kickass Shots" was chosen as a good example of a great hub.  Are you daft, dear lady?  I have always had respect and high regards for you - now I wonder.  If you feel profanity and trash is acceptable for high traffic then we are all being mislead here. Is this hub an exception to the rules just because it received high traffic?
         
         You say this inappropriate hub has very good traffic and reader satisfaction - of course it does!  Many people love profanity and insults to women.  To make you and the HP team happier, must we all follow suit and become writers of trash?
         
         I do strongly feel that "Kickass Shots" should be deleted and that all hubbers who strive for quality hubs and high standards receive a public apology from you.

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            Phyllis Doyleposted 9 years agoin reply to this

            I am even further upset about your choice of what a great hub is when I think about my hubs on Psyche and Eros and how ads were removed because I used classic art images by old masters that portrayed nudity. I was told that Google does not like to see nudity of the human - so I was penalized till I edited all the images and covered up the "offending parts" in the beautiful paintings.

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               LongTimeMotherposted 9 years agoin reply to this

               Phyllis, you might not have been able to collect adsense income, but you certainly could have placed some amazon ads on those hubs.
               
               Here's an example of full frontal female nudity (she's even fondling herself) plus a naked male's butt on an art hub by one of HP's moderators. He has amazon ads on it.
               http://matthewmeyer.hubpages.com/hub/Ta … le-Figures
               
               So clearly there's no HP rule against nudity - even full frontal female nudity.
               
               Edit: I took off the smiley face. Somehow it felt really 'wrong'.

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                  Jodahposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                  I have had to struggle to get ads approved on a number of hubs and had to remove images of paintings and wording that had much less offensive images than those, even one with a fully clothed woman with a large backside and one with nipples showing through clothing. Now whenever I decide to edit one of those hubs it has ads disabled until it is reviewed manually. Many Amazon and Google ads have worse wording and images than we are allowed.

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            Shades-of-truthposted 9 years agoin reply to this

            Standing ovation for Phyllis Doyle! I likewise had to remove a photo of a starving child, while addressing a remedy to worldwide malnutrition.
            
            Does anyone else see double standards here?

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               Ramkitten2000posted 9 years agoin reply to this

               Absolutely.

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               sockiiposted 9 years agoin reply to this

               Similarly, as I mentioned elsewhere, I had to edit a hub about infertility awareness because of the word "slut" before. And I was using it to disprove and counter the common insult given to women that they "must have been sluts/slutty" before and that's why now they can't have children. So countering a hurtful myth against women is not okay, but naming an alcoholic drink a "slut" is.

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                  Phyllis Doyleposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                  I just don't get it, sockii.  We work so darn hard to provide quality and helpful information and a hub like Kickass Shots is chosen?

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                     LongTimeMotherposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                     Go bak an rooin sum of them hubs, Phyllis. An poot in sumthin sexsy.

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                  LongTimeMotherposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                  Now you're getting it, sockii. Lesson learned. You're moving towards the top of the class.

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                  Shades-of-truthposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                  Here, here, sockii!

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            Christy Kirwanposted 9 years agoin reply to this

            I am truly sorry that this Hub has offended some. I am not claiming these Hubs are the best on HubPages; simply that they make use of a format we have found to be particularly successful with attracting readers and that readers are very satisfied with. My suggestion was that some Hubbers may wish to try the format, not that Hubbers should be writing about these particular topics.
            
            In truth, we want many types of content to have a home on HubPages, and that includes everything from shot recipes to dissertations on Renaissance masters. We have had to impose certain restrictions based on what our advertisers will allow in order to protect Hubbers' AdSense accounts, but in a perfect world, I would very much like to allow more, rather than less variety of content (especially when it comes to women's health, abuse counseling, etc).

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               Shades-of-truthposted 9 years agoin reply to this

               Christy, with all due respect. Why would the two Hubs about drinking have been chosen in the first place?
               
               I was under the impression that alcohol was not to be promoted here - perhaps an incorrect impression, but my impression, nonetheless.
               
               From the Learning Center, here are the rules about alcohol:
               http://hubpages.com/learningcenter/publ … d_22732586
               
               "So that Hubbers may continue to earn from ads on their work, HubPages does not allow the sale or promotion of gambling, alcohol, tobacco, or drugs."
               
               Farther down the page:
               "Sales of beer, hard alcohol or liqueurs: Hubs that sell, or link to sites that sell beer, hard alcohol or liqueurs are not allowed. Further, links to alcohol-related sites that require visitors to verify their age are prohibited. You are however free to publish reviews of a particular libation, brewery, winery, or distiller. Cocktail recipes are also fair game. On the subject of home brewing, you can share recipes and techniques, and you can sell related equipment. That said, the sale of simple all-in-one brewing kits is prohibited."
               
               Would you not say that two of those Hubs promote alcohol? Perhaps not the sale of alcohol, but in order to follow the advice on the Hubs, one must purchase alcohol.
               
               The rules about cocktail recipes being "fair game" - ??? Fair game to publish, or fair game to be prohibited?
               
               Don't even get me started about how many Hubs I have seen with the words "masturbate", "masterbate", "masturbation", "masterbation" - two of them deliberately spelled wrong. Despite repeated flagging, they are still published.

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                  Christy Kirwanposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                  Hi Shades,
                  
                  These Hubs were hand-selected by Paul Edmondson because we have substantial data on them that indicates that 1.) they are significantly more successful, traffic-wise after editing (receiving more than the average 20% traffic boost across edited Hubs) and 2.) Readers are extremely satisfied with them. The fact that they are about alcohol and are getting so much traffic may have something to do with the fact that it is currently spring break season in the US.
                  
                  To clarify, in the paragraph from the Learning Center, we mean that cocktail recipes are permitted on HubPages, since they do not sell or link to sites that sell alcohol or alcohol brewing equipment.

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                     LongTimeMotherposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                     So he hand-selected the F-bomb as well? Is there no rule prohibiting its use?
                     
                     Can I type it in text form using all four letters in further posts on this forum ... or would I have to post a picture?

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                        Shades-of-truthposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                        Maybe the "F" word and the "slut' thing were added by the one who edited it. Now, that would explain it.

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                           LongTimeMotherposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                           I guess we could all try adding those elements to our hubs, Shades-of-Truth and see what difference it makes to our stats.
                           
                           Perhaps if we all become pre-occupied with stats, we won't care what the words are either. (Either that or we could just all heavily research some drinking hubs. Same result, I guess.)

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                              Shades-of-truthposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                              Well, LongTimeMother, you're correct - it might. My conscience and my convictions just won't let me do that. I understand that seediness, sex, and smut sells, but I prefer to find other ways to earn money.
                              
                              It is no wonder that our nation is in the condition that it is. The next generation just might think that all we had on our minds were things from the seamy side of life. No offense to those who drink, but the linking of the "F" word with alcohol on a Hub is simply sleazy. Using it as an example of - I suppose - what Hub pages wants, is incredible.

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                        Marina Lazarevicposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                        Just want to chime in about our rules on profanity. Excessive profanity is not OK. Otherwise, context matters. In this case, the profane words are part of proper nouns. That is, the names of the drinks.

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                           rebekahELLEposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                             To be honest, I'm stunned that people are offended by the name of a drink. 
                           
                           I think we give viewers far too much 'thought' when I read some of these comments, not just concerning the usage of a word for a drink, but thinking they're going to even pay attention to the name of a domain, in many cases.  If we've answered a search query successfully, we should be happy.  If they read to the end of a hub, we're doing great!  If they decide to click on another of our links, fantastic. 
                           
                           I doubt very much if someone reading one of our hubs about any subject is going to be offended by a word choice on a hub they most likely will never read.

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                              Shades-of-truthposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                              When I see words like that, I leave the page. Usually, I leave the site.

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                           Shades-of-truthposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                           Respectfully, Marina, does that mean that I can name my car "MotherF--er", and then write a Hub about it? Because the "F" word would be the a proper noun, incorporated into the name of my car. Is that permissable?
                           
                           I simply do not understand some of the reasoning here.

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                              Marina Lazarevicposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                              Like I said, it is context-dependent. If you do a Google search for any of these drink names, you will see that there are hundreds of thousands of results, including Wikipedia entries. These are very well-known drinks so this is a unique example of where profanity is permissible.
                              
                              In your example, it would probably depend on how often you used the word. If once or twice, it would likely be permissible. If you used it a bunch of times it would likely have ads turned off and may even be moderated as Mature. AdSense has the same policy on profanity and in practice we have never been called out for a Hub having a few profane words. You can read a little more about AdSense's policy here. I also got some more information from our account rep on what AdSense considers "extreme profanity" - this was the list:
                              - Sites with serious profanity in the URL (i.e. "shit" is not okay, "crap" is okay)
                              - Small sites with excessive amounts of lewd or violent profanity
                              - NOTE: Music lyrics sites with profanity in lyrics is okay
                              
                              The drinks Hub was confirmed to be ad safe.
                              
                              Edit: grammar

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                     Shades-of-truthposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                     Okay, Christy, thank you. I understand they are not encouraging people to buy alcohol from the site.
                     
                     I still do not understand why, of all of the thousands of choices that were available, two of them were related to drinking. People drink year-round, so I don't know if the spring break thing is accurate, but I am also not looking at the statistics.
                     
                     It is unfortunate that Paul chose those particular two Hubs, as they would not be even in the list, had I been the one to choose. I am not in that capacity.
                     
                     Over the years, I have managed to put millions of words online, often under aliases, as I cannot keep up with the emails. Not one word is about alcohol, drugs, or anything sexual, yet I get lots of traffic.
                     
                     Why would HP even wish to promote Hubs like that?
                     
                     Could one write about games that can be played while doing cocaine, or heroin, or LSD, or crack? They wouldn't have to promote sales of it, just talk about games that could be played while indulging.
                     
                     Sorry, Christy. I still do not get it.

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                     sockiiposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                     All of the above just again reinforces how my ideas of quality content truly do not match with The Powers That Be here at HubPages. So we should be catering to drunken college students on spring break right now? No, thank you. I'm sure if I wrote an article about drink spiking and sexual assault during spring break it would get flagged as inappropriate.

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                     TIMETRAVELER2posted 9 years agoin reply to this

                     So, if I write a hub about Las Vegas casinos but do not link to sites that deal with gambling, it's OK?

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                        Christy Kirwanposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                        Yes, that should be permitted. I believe there are already Featured Hubs on HubPages about the best Vegas casinos to stay in and so forth.

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               Ramkitten2000posted 9 years agoin reply to this

               The advertisers allow sluts, shots and f-bombs but not Renaissance paintings?

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                  sockiiposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                  ...or discussion of female reproductive issues and matters related to feminsim?

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                  flycatcherrrposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                  ...or intensely personal articles about researching the death of a WW2 hero, or biographical articles on famous women designers and inventors?

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               LongTimeMotherposted 9 years agoin reply to this

               Google has no problem with the red-headed slut and the F-bomb. Why is that?

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               Phyllis Doyleposted 9 years agoin reply to this

               Seriously?  You think it is the format that attracted readers to the KA hub? You don't think it might just possibly be the title and the content, not to mention the profanity that some readers thought was funny, awesome, etc?
               
               There are hundreds of excellent hubs with the good formatting that HP recommends and encourages that would not have offended anyone and would make far better examples. HP should be downright embarrassed that KA is used as an example of a great hub for all the world to see.

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               Marcy Goodfleischposted 9 years agoin reply to this

               Christy -
               
               Why would the site think that credible dissertation writers, or those who are learned in the arts would want to put their material on the same site that uses content with the words 'slut' and the F-bomb as examples of good writing or publishing?
               
               The mix of topics doesn't even make sense in terms of compatibility in content. If I were to write something like that (the slut or F-bomb content), I wouldn't put it on a site that included articles about rearing children, healthcare, religion, art and higher education.
               
               Publishing on this site influences our reputations as writers. Many of us have been published long before we came here. I don't know of any mainstream, decent, family oriented magazine or newspaper (I am not counting Penthouse or publications of that ilk) that would publish drink recipes with the names that appear in the hub edited by HubPro.
               
               Please publish, in a visible place, the editorial thrust of this site.  It is no longer clear what the site is all about, or what the standards are.  Please also clarify what a 'policy' is versus a program?  Is is the 'policy' that HubPages can edit anything on the site by an author who hasn't opted out of whatever the heck that 'policy' might be?

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               Marisa Wrightposted 9 years agoin reply to this

               Christy, you haven't addressed the mystery of how a Hub with the word  "f*ck" is allowed to remain published, while a Hub with the word "slut" is not?   Surely both would break HP's rules about swear words and adult content?

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                  colorfuloneposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                  I believe Marina addressed that here: http://hubpages.com/forum/post/2719128
                  
                  "In this case, the profane words are part of proper nouns. That is, the names of the drinks."

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                     janderson99posted 9 years agoin reply to this

                     I wonder whether the Google bot or the Adsense rogue sniffer can tell the difference?

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                        Marisa Wrightposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                        That would be my question too.

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                        colorfuloneposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                        In this post by Matt Meyer, "I have noticed that Google is displaying similar info for searches for drink recipes"  (quick answers)  http://hubpages.com/forum/post/2718798
                        
                        When I did a search I saw some adult words in some of the drink recipe titles that Google provided a link to a web page in the quick answers.

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                     Shades-of-truthposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                     According to what Marina said, we can use profanity, as long as it is part of a proper noun. Is that what I am reading?

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                  LongTimeMotherposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                  Marisa, you are mistaken. The hub we are discussing features both f*ck and slut. No discrimination there. It is other hubbers who were not allowed to use the word slut.
                  
                  I am considering re-naming my property with a high-rating Proper Noun, and making a sign to hang on my front gate. I could photograph it and then work those popular keywords into all my hubs.
                  
                  I live so far off the grid it's not like my neighbours would notice. No danger of me offending anyone ...

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      PegCole17posted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Seriously, in the first example having the title repeated within the full width image, using no capital letters, is that the key to improving traffic? Wow. Who knew? Also, an outgoing link to take readers off the site within the first paragraph, is that advisable when we edit our hubs?
      
      I agree with the others who found the language and subject matter for these quality examples to be questionable. They send conflicting messages. If our CEO is headed in this direction to seek reader satisfaction then we can expect a different sort of reader. Interesting to know.

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   Ramkitten2000posted 9 years ago

   And yet, HP unfeatures high-traffic hubs they deem "low quality" because *gasp!* they promote products. No vulgarity, no disparaging content, but instead those horrid (in my hub's case) footie pajamas for men. In fact, that hub of mine that was unfeatured not only had a lot of Google traffic -- for years before it was transferred to HP and since then, right up until it was unfeatured -- but also made significant sales, meaning Google didn't hate it and neither did those who visited. It also had a some humor and funny (very family-friendly) photos that I took myself.
   
   But I guess a high traffic hub like that is much less desirable than a high-traffic hub about alcohol shots.
   
   I don't get it.
   
   But, alas, I moved it, and it's doing very well in its new home. Google still likes it over there.

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      Shades-of-truthposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Hard to understand, isn't it?

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      LongTimeMotherposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Ramkitten2000, perhaps if you put a red-headed slut in those pyjamas (Aussie spelling), it might do really well here on HP. The red-headed slut gets google ads I noticed.
      
      Got any pyjamas with stars on them? I've got a good suggestion for how you could make your hub attractive for pinterest ...

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         Ramkitten2000posted 9 years agoin reply to this

         Thanks! My example is nothing like those some of your have mentioned, with the double standard being applied. But it just baffles me all around how drinking games and shots and sluts and f-bombs are OK, but our examples are not. I just don't get it.

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5. 83

   Marcy Goodfleischposted 9 years ago

   Cheers and applause for LTM, Shades, Sockii and everyone else who has pointed out what appear to be contradictory approaches to allowable content.
   
   I'm feeling less & less comfortable here, too. The amount of BAD content is never fully address - because, after all, it might get high traffic and show 'reader satisfaction.' The guidelines on use of offensive words or images is subjective, depending on traffic and all that satisfaction stuff, too.

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      Shades-of-truthposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Thank you, Marcy. If all HP is concerned about is reader satisfaction, and Hubs like the "Kickass Shots" one is considered to be the standard for emulation, then HP needs to let us all know that quality of content is really not important. What seems to be important, is to encourage alcoholic consumption and slightly disguised profanity.
      
      I am simply disgusted.

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         Marcy Goodfleischposted 9 years agoin reply to this

         Shades, et al - (long post here - sorry!)
         
         I was fuming to the point I didn't even edit my own post - so much for quality.
         
         Regarding the definition of quality - it appears the site's definition clearly boils down to traffic at this point. They've decided they need to increase traffic to hubs already getting traffic (give them even more SEO traction, I guess).  I understand this - it's sort of a life-raft approach, which is sad.  I don't agree with it, but I think I see what is happening.
         
         Perhaps the time has passed for the site to really work on addressing the problems, and things are in a survival mode. Survival means that anything getting traffic that is not entirely toxic will be retained. This explains why some really bad (and even spammy) content is still here. 
         
         Survival also means to increase traffic to the hubs getting a lot of views (or ad clicks) but  that need quality boosts of some sort, or that can be boosted in some manner. So they've sunk money into HubPro editors who juice up the commercial stock of content that falls into that group. It's not directly targeting alcohol, sex, drugs, etc. - it's all related to whether a hub is getting traffic. Some of those hubs are surely about other things, but, as we can see, others have content or words that are a bit surprising to us.
         
         Just read between the lines in phrases by some of the management team - things like not wanting to talk about 'doom and gloom,' or whether there's 'time' left to do certain things. I really think this is the current mode.
         
         It's my prayer that the site gets through this stage. Some Hubbers might decide to bail, and some might hang around and wait, and some might try to help.
         
         If the site reverses whatever negative trends there are, there could be a new and bright future. If not, well, they're trying now in the best way they believe will work (under current circumstances) and we need to appreciate that fact.
         
         There's apparently some math formula that shows a positive impact on things when high-traffic hubs are enhanced, and a financial point of no return if a certain ratio of bad content is nuked before the situation is reversed.  So - complaining about the bad content is not useful at this particular moment. But - it's possible that could change in the future, when things are more stable.
         
         Several times, we've been encouraged to 'Edit and improve high-traffic hubs,' - that's not that difficult to do, and it's one way we can help the site survive and move forward. 
         
         Just trying to be real here. That's all. I love the staff & I truly do want the site to survive. Maybe some hard-facts transparency would help us know how to work as a team to get through things.

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         Susana Sposted 9 years agoin reply to this

         Everyone should be concerned about reader satisfaction.
         
         Getting it right is all about knowing who your target audience is, understanding what they expect from your page and then giving it to them.The Kickass shots hub does that well.

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            Solarasposted 9 years agoin reply to this

            +1

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6. 54

   janderson99posted 9 years ago

   Hubpro is failing to deliver the high quality standards it needs to meet its objectives or to address the points raised in the blog.
   Use of simple, readily available and inexpensive tools would help.
   
   Copyscape(dot)com identified 103 words of copied content in the third example quoted in the blog.
   
   SpellCheckPlus(dot)com identified the following grammatical errors in the first example:
   => There are a couple ways (couple of ways)
   => You no longer need a full stop after oz => 'oz' not 'oz.' (much simpler)
   => adding 1 more item per turn (one more) - advisory
   => game for 2 people (two people) - advisory
   + many more relating to use of commas, poor expression, etc.
   
   skepticism (misspelt skeptism) in the second example [also picked up by Chrome spellchecker]
   
   I would suggest that the use of these tools and similar ones by authors and by Hubpro Editors would achieve better outcomes. Simple Stuff really!

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      Shades-of-truthposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Great post, janderson99!

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      janderson99posted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Why doesn't HP approach these companies or similar ones, get the APIs, and incorporate them as tools in the HP edit system. I can't believe that HP does not have spelling, grammar and plagiarism checkers built in after 8+ years! Come On! Perhaps this may be one of HP's problems?
      
      They could be run when the 'publish' button is pressed and again every time a hub is edited. This puts the onus back on the authors to fix their own hubs and would be a fabulous teaching tool.
      
      Imagine clean sparking copy at outset. It is Easy if you Try. Above us only Sky.
      
      Much better than trying to pick up spelling, grammar, expression and copied content etc. after hubs are published, and that sneak in after edits. It would help the Hubpro Editors as well!
      
      In the mean time, authors please run your articles through these or similar tools - Google will love your for it! Clean copy benefits the community.

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7. STAFF

   Paul Edmondsonposted 9 years ago

   @Marisa Wright
   
   I believe user satisfaction has become a major part of Google's algo and a big piece of Panda.  I've gone super deep on sites impacted by Panda and those doing well and what I found is that the pages getting the lions share of the traffic drive Panda.  If the pages are good, the entire site does well.  If the high traffic pages are lower quality the entire site does poorly.  Most Hubbers have a few pages that drive the majority of their traffic. 
   
   HubPages has been pruning out lower quality content over the last several yeas and now HubPro is improving the head.  Somewhere, we will have pruned and improved enough that Panda becomes a distant memory:)  My best estimate is we need to improve the average view rating 3-5% to move inline with sites doing well.  3-5% might seem small, but it's actually really hard to improve a page this much based on how we measure it.  The good news is each day we are inching forward.
   
   The more Hubbers improve their high traffic Hubs, the quicker we get there!

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      sockiiposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      By promoting and encouraging hubs with virtually no original content and the use of four-letter insults. Got it.

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      LongTimeMotherposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Paul, it must be frustrating for you that we aren't seeing the value in the hubs you chose as examples to share with us. I know I'm trying hard ... but there's a few things that aren't clear to me, no matter how I look at them. I'd appreciate you discussing the following issues to clarify things.
      
      You say you've been 'pruning out lower quality content over the last several years', yet you offer Kickass Shots as an example of the type of hub we should be trying to create. Which suggests this is a 'high quality' hub.
      
      What exactly is 'high quality' about it? And can you see why we think it is 'low quality' ... in terms of content, images, and mistakes?
      
      Where does its traffic come from? Google and SEO searches? If so, what are the search terms that lead traffic to it? Or is it pinterest views that make it so 'successful'?
      
      Please define 'quality' in a way we can understand, because I don't see it.
      
      Are most of the hubs with the highest traffic of a sexual nature, about drinking, simple recipes, or any other hints?
      
      It only seems fair that you share the 'real' secrets of success on HP with us - instead of us continuing to work in our fantasy-land of quality.

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   3. 54

      janderson99posted 9 years agoin reply to this

      While debate rages about user satisfaction, dwell times and what Google really wants, apart from more traffic from happy customers, perhaps nature offers a solution.
      
      There are two aptly named vines and palms in Australian rainforests:
      
      Wait-a-While
      Linger-Longer
      
      
      
      The answer THORNS

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8. 54

   paradigm searchposted 9 years ago

   This frenzy, too, shall pass. Meanwhile, yours truly shall continue to muddle along; an ad dollar here, an ad dollar there, and so on.

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      ologsinquitoposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      The one high-traffic hub I improved seems to be doing better, after taking a dip right after the changes. Then, I updated one hub that used to get better traffic. It's doing better, but I'm not sure if it's Pinterest related, because I started promoting it there.

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9. 57

   zaghlolposted 9 years ago

   goood

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10. 60

    jodijoyousposted 9 years ago

    I have four hubs left. They are still here only because they rely heavily on polls and comments. They would be extraordinarily difficult to move and I happen to be fond of them.
    
    The rest have been deleted or moved elsewhere.
    
    I was on Squidoo and I have seen this movie before.
    
    I don't know how "quality" and those example hubs can exist in the same sentence.

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       Shades-of-truthposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       "I don't know how "quality" and those example hubs can exist in the same sentence."
       
       Neither do I.

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       sockiiposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       Agreed on all of the above, jodi. I have a few transitioned lenses full of years of poll data that would be erased if I moved them. They are probably the only ones I really feel like keeping here at this point. It's just a lot of slow work moving them, but it's feeling more imperative than ever at this point for me.

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11. 54

    paradigm searchposted 9 years ago

    From Twitter.
    
    I just couldn't pass this one up.

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       Solarasposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       

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12. 54

    paradigm searchposted 9 years ago

    As long as HP doesn't jeopardize my monthly payout amount, I really don't care what they do.

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       lbrummerposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       After reading the suggested hubs I decided to Google the question:
       "Why use cuss words in product advertising."  One of the first page search items is this one.   http://www.talentzoo.com/news/All-this- … 13930.html
       Evidently Google doesn't have a problem with articles using potty words.

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          Shades-of-truthposted 9 years agoin reply to this

          Evidently, HP doesn't, either.

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          colorfuloneposted 9 years agoin reply to this

          Oh, oh! People are going to be mad at Google now.
          
          Look out Matt Cutts!

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          TIMETRAVELER2posted 9 years agoin reply to this

          It isn't as much Google as it is Adsense.

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             colorfuloneposted 9 years agoin reply to this

             I think this is interesting reading material.
             http://www.vaughns-1-pagers.com/interne … -words.htm

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                paradigm searchposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                Excellent link!

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                   colorfuloneposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                   Yes, I just shared it in my Best Friends group on FB, they are marketing animals.

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                      paradigm searchposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                      Then they will go nuts over this one, http://searchenginewatch.com/sew/how-to … ly-low-cpc HP might be interested in this, too.

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                         colorfuloneposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                         Thank you. Shared it.

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                            paradigm searchposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                            You are welcome. After seeing your earlier post, I stumbled across the article link on Bing News. Synchronicity does indeed exist in this world.

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                               colorfuloneposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                               "Synchronicity does indeed exist in this world."
                               Love it when that happens.

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                LongTimeMotherposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                This link illustrates precisely why I have been asking about the source of traffic for Kickass. If the search stats show that googles around the world are sending traffic to it, that's an indication hubs like that one won't catch the entire HP site up in a future penalty action. But if the traffic is only coming from pinterest and social media sites, that hub is playing russian roulette with all our hubs and all our earnings ... because we don't know whether hubs like that are actually using 'stop' words or not.
                
                Personally I think it is wiser to err on the side of caution ... unless Paul has had a direct conversation with google re adsense being happy for HP to proudly display such hubs. In which case, it would be helpful if he told us.

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13. 54

    paradigm searchposted 9 years ago

    This one has served me well for years.
    
    An excellent philosophy of life it is.

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14. 81

    Mark Ewbieposted 9 years ago

    Time to go and work on a possible HOTFD

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       PegCole17posted 9 years agoin reply to this

       

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       LongTimeMotherposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       You're worth more money, Mark. The world (including HP) is a better place with you in it!!
       
       Loved your line ... And thanks for not offering us a stick figure illustration on the topic.

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15. 92

    Ramkitten2000posted 9 years ago

    Based on that information, there are a number of hubs previously mentioned in this thread that should NEVER have been unfeatured or had ads turned off.

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       Shades-of-truthposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       True.

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       Marina Lazarevicposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       We have never made defeaturing decisions based on profanity alone (see the QAP rating guide here.) If a Hub contains extreme profanity, it is moderated. It is certainly possible that our filters incorrectly determined that a Hub was too profane and turned ads off or moderated a Hub. If this ever happens, please contact us and we'll happily turn ads back on.

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          Ramkitten2000posted 9 years agoin reply to this

          But -- for example -- a hub (not mine but one I was familiar with) was unfeatured (or had ads turned off, I'm not sure which in that case) because of a Renaissance painting depicting a nude. How is that worse than a hub with the word "slut" or the "f-word" in it? We all know Renaissance paintings aren't exactly Playboy-like or offensive. If advertisers are fine with "slut" and "f-ck," then I would dare say they'd be OK with a Renaissance painting that shows breasts, for goodness sakes.
          
          I had one of my own hubs unpublished because I linked to a site that had more information about a certain aspect of selling vegetables at a farmers market. And that was on a hub about SELLING AT A FARMERS MARKET. I removed that link and the hub was published/featured. (I know that was the reason, because Paul Edmondson emailed me and told me so after I inquired directly.) So ... a hub with "slut" and "f-ck" is perfectly OK, even held up as an example of greatness, but a hub about selling vegetables gets dinged for a link to a page related to selling vegetables, which your team apparently deemed not related ENOUGH.
          
          This is all just baffling to me.

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          1. 0

             calculus-geometryposted 9 years agoin reply to this

             The rules are often inconsistent and illogical, plus there's always been a problem of "the left hand doesn't know what the right is doing" at HP. It's a rather recent change that we are all considered guilty until proven innocent regarding outside links. Outside links are regarded as spam  and anyone who dares provide the reader with more info off-site is a no good dirty ****ing spammer.
             
             As for the style that is now promoted as the ideal, HP has decided it wants to be Buzzfeed, is my best guess.  Well, that's fine, but they need to clue the rest of us in and attract more Buzzfeed-style writers.
             
             Maybe you should have written "Top 10 Vegetables to Go **** Yourself With"

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                Ramkitten2000posted 9 years agoin reply to this

                Lol...well, I DO have one about zucchini. OK, I'd better go get back to work before I get in trouble.

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             Shades-of-truthposted 9 years agoin reply to this

             Ramkitten2000,
             
             I believe many of us are baffled.

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             Marina Lazarevicposted 9 years agoin reply to this

             I'm on the same page as you about artistic nudity. It is not HubPages' policy to defeature or unpublish a Hub with artistic nudity. If this happened to your Hub, it was likely a mistake. AdSense, however, is very clear about it's 'no nudity' policy. Whether it's artistic or not, clear depictions of nudity are not acceptable. Read more about that (or ask in their forums) here. This is the reason we turn ads off on these Hubs. If we did otherwise, we would be putting our AdSense account at risk. I've said elsewhere on this thread that the drinks Hub was confirmed to be ad safe by Google (I asked in case my understanding of their profanity policy was incorrect). If you want to run AdSense ads, you need to comply with these things regardless of whether you find them logical or reasonable.
             
             I did not see the farmer's market Hub, so I can't comment on it, but I trust that Paul gave you sound advice.
             
             Again, if you think that we've made a mistake or want more clarity on our policies, please email us and we'll be glad to assist.

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                wildernessposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                And that's the nuts and bolts, isn't it?  The ball field does not belong to hubbers or even to HP; it belongs to Google and google will make any rule and rule changes it wants, when it wants and for whatever reason it wants.  We either follow suit or will be booted from the game.

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                NateB11posted 9 years agoin reply to this

                That's interesting about Google's confirmation about the Hub being ad safe. It's difficult to measure what's acceptable content as far as Adsense is concerned. Some of their rules seem vague, I've struggled with a couple of them to know exactly where they set the boundaries for adult content and profanity, when deciding what I should publish or not publish. Having an example like the drinks Hub clarifies things a bit.

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    Shades-of-truthposted 9 years ago

    I would just like to say, that I am still baffled. One of the HP team has nudity in one of their Hubs, or maybe more - I did not check. There is a full back view of a man's body, and a front view of a female's.
    
    HP disabled the ads on one of my Hubs, for the photo of a starving child. He was nude, but from the photo, one could not even tell if the child was a male or a female. Nothing - I repeat - nothing was visible. I was advised that photo was what spurred the action. I removed it.
    
    Now, I find nudity on a HP team's Hub - does that sound like a double standard to anyone?
    
    In the HubPro Blog Post that this thread is referring to, we have learned, that we can use the "F" word - as long as it is part of a proper noun, we can say "slut", and other terms - as long as they are part of proper nouns, and there will be no repercussions. 
    
    Am I alone in feeling that we are told one thing, and shown - another? Does HP want good, clean, wholesome, important, relevant content, or not? "Double standard" does not even begin to express my confusion.

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