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What will happon to the people that don't make it?

  1. 61
    haj3396posted 4 years ago

    They will be no more, will they burn in hell fire for ever? No, we serve a good God, and he will just burn them up.

    1. Dave Mathews profile image61
      Dave Mathewsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Why do you choose to mock God and mock his holy scripture? Do you not know that each time you do such a thing, the distance between you and Almighty God increases?

      1. 0
        Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Hey Dave. You aren't God either. Just thought you'd like to know.

    2. CMHypno profile image89
      CMHypnoposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Do you honestly think that the terms 'good god' and 'he will burn them up' match each other in any way?  Good gods or people, don't burn people up - it's just not logical.

      Heaven for the climate, hell for the company as they say.

    3. Disappearinghead profile image88
      Disappearingheadposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      A hub score of 4. Why am I even bothering to reply? hmm

      1. aka-dj profile image80
        aka-djposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        It's 10 now.

        Worthy now? lol

      2. noenhulk profile image57
        noenhulkposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        I am wondering too. Why are we getting involve?

    4. Hollie Thomas profile image61
      Hollie Thomasposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      If I could make sense of this post I would attempt to comeback with a resonably, thought-out response.

    5. psycheskinner profile image82
      psycheskinnerposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      The God you serve seems more like that of the ancient Aztecs than the God my Christian friends tell me about.

    6. AEvans profile image69
      AEvansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Where do you get this from? Seriously.

    7. 0
      Chasukposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Do you mean that God, being good, won't punish people in a lake of fire eternally, but will "burn them up" straightaway?

      1. pisean282311 profile image57
        pisean282311posted 4 years ago in reply to this

        @chasuk yup...but would oil to do that...people would be kept in huge big container full of oil and then there would be fire ....people who dont obey god , worship him would be boiled in oil...

        1. 0
          Chasukposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Boiling in oil? Hmm? Is that Haj3396's belief, or your own?

    8. Chris Neal profile image83
      Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      What's you're scriptural basis for this?

    9. mischeviousme profile image59
      mischeviousmeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      If you actually think there's an in or anything other than this to observe, than you should probably examine your own sanity. It's nice to have a savior I guess, even if it just makes one comfortable in life and elevates one's awareness of self. However, christianity doesn't want awareness, they prefer sheeple.

    10. rebekahELLE profile image90
      rebekahELLEposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      well, that 5 on your avatar explains your question..

  2. Eric Newland profile image60
    Eric Newlandposted 4 years ago

    You keep answering your own questions. You're like a depressing popsicle stick.

    1. jacharless profile image83
      jacharlessposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      lol

  3. jennzie profile image86
    jennzieposted 4 years ago

    No one entirely knows what will happen when we die- I do however believe that there is some sort of afterlife. And I would like to believe that there is some sort of justice in death if it hasn't happened in life, but again I have not died so I don't know.

    However if you keep trying to figure out the answers to questions that no one fully knows or understands, you will only drive yourself crazy.

  4. Druid Dude profile image60
    Druid Dudeposted 4 years ago

    If God is indeed almighty....he doesn't lose a single sheep. If he does lose just one, then he sucks as a shepherd, and as an almighty, infallable God.

    1. 61
      haj3396posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Notice, I never put anyone down for their opinion, why not, because everyone have a right to their opinion. You have never heard my opinion, because I only speak what God states. God said I am coming to destroy SIN, now, if you are still sining then you will be destroyed. How will you be destroyed, this is what God say, 2Thessalonians 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: Malachi 4-1  For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.

      1. 70
        Robertr04posted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Hi haj. What you are  talking about  is the second death by the scriptures you're using,right?

    2. 60
      augustine72posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      God is a Good shepherd and He does not loose even a single sheep. But for your information a shepherd takes care of his sheep. He will not take care of sheep that does not belong to him.

  5. pisean282311 profile image57
    pisean282311posted 4 years ago

    @ts lol ya right...god who can see his own son die so brutally, that god would definitely burn those who care a damn about him..at times it is difficult to make difference between god and devil...

    1. 70
      Robertr04posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      He sent His Son to be sacrificed for your sins and my sins and the sins of the world. Again  bro, you are'nt being forced to except this fact. Now you say it's hard to see the difference between The Father and satan? If you are fortunate enough to keep living(or die for that matter) I guarantee, you will see the difference.

      1. Druid Dude profile image60
        Druid Dudeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        No one even knows what time it is....even though it is right in front of your faces. It's almost comical. Like watching a dog chase it's own tail.

        1. 70
          Robertr04posted 4 years ago in reply to this

          You're right Dude. They don't won't to  know and some were meant to be vailed, because they woud'nt believe the truth anyway.

          1. pisean282311 profile image57
            pisean282311posted 4 years ago in reply to this

            @robert ...right...satan seems better ...may be god which jesus promoted was actual satan because his actions are worst than any devil one may know...getting his own son nailed for no fault of human being...sin which god calls was product of free will which god himself gave...and being fully aware of future , god knew that it would be misused...so in end god is biggest culprit or say biggest conspirator and by misusing his own power then went on to kill his own son...wow....satan seems angel infront of such god...

            also since days of paul people are waiting for end times...they wont believe in truth anyway that their end time theme is illusion...some people were meant to be veiled...

  6. Mark Ewbie profile image84
    Mark Ewbieposted 4 years ago

    "What will happon to the people that don't make it?"

    They'll probably join Wizzley.

  7. Dave Mathews profile image61
    Dave Mathewsposted 4 years ago

    At the end of times, all who are opposed to God will end up in the "Lake of Fire" completely separated from God and heaven for eternity.

    1. White Ghost126 profile image61
      White Ghost126posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      God is a loving God and he gives you a life time to believe in him and he tells us through friends, family, and churches that if we do not recieve him we will be in the lake of fire. As nasty as that is it says in 1Timothy 2:4( I memorized this a while ago so it might not be right completely) "Who would have all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth". If you believe the bible( Catholic, Baptist, ect.) You will know he does not want us in that lake.

      1. White Ghost126 profile image61
        White Ghost126posted 4 years ago in reply to this

        (I totally agree with Dave)

        1. Timlove profile image82
          Timloveposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          What a soverien God wants a soverien God gets.

      2. Chris Neal profile image83
        Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Amen, brother!

    2. Chris Neal profile image83
      Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Amen!

  8. THWLE profile image60
    THWLEposted 4 years ago

    Everyone Goes to Heaven. "Hell" does not even exist. The concept of an eternal, or even a temporary torture chamber does not exists in and cannot be supported by the Bible.

    Jesus redeemed everyone through the gift of his action, which cannot be refuted, not even through someone's disbelief... the covenant was made between Himself and God.

    His gift was an action, not an offer that can be accepted or rejected. It happened and you and I cannot change that. It was His choice to save all of us.

    He chose us, whether or not we ever choose Him. We are the treasure buried in the field. He gave everything He had to buy the field (creation) so He could get the treasure (us). This is the point of the gospel. It was always about Him proving His love for us. It was never a set of rules made so that we could jump through hoops to prove our love for Him.

    Everything Changed and Everyone Goes to Heaven because of what Jesus did in

    The Hour We Least Expected... look it up...

    1. White Ghost126 profile image61
      White Ghost126posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      So you believe you are good enough to go to heaven and you know there is no hell?

      1. White Ghost126 profile image61
        White Ghost126posted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Serously? if you spend all your money buying a dog for your son and that dog bites your son what would you do

        1. 0
          Chasukposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          First, I wouldn't spend all of my money buying a dog. Second, assuming that, after wise budgeting and consideration, I bought my son a dog, which bit him, I would understand that -- sometimes -- dogs bite. If I believed that there was a possibility that the dog would bite again, I would get rid of the dog.

          1. White Ghost126 profile image61
            White Ghost126posted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Exactly, sort of, You are not worth as much to God as his son, just like the dog would not be of much worth to you when comparied to your son. God did give his son for you like you giving your all for your son to have that dog. Now you said if the dog was vicioous and would constanly bite you would get rid of it. You would even give it a second chance not to bite again. God is giving you your chances right now. And if you reject God he will get rid of you like you would get rid of the dog. You would not keep this dog nether would God keep you. And if you believe in the True Bible, the word of God, you must know where sinners who refuse God go. There is a hell and it is real wether I, you, or anyone wants to believe it.

            1. 0
              Chasukposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              So you are equating me with a gift for Jesus.

              Respectfully, your powers of analogy need a little polishing.

              1. White Ghost126 profile image61
                White Ghost126posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                No I am showing you what it is like for God.I pictured your son as Gods son that is if you have a son and i know you love more than anything on this earth besides mabey your wife. Same with God He loved his son more than anything in the world. Now say your son got beat up by some bullies. would you punish those bullies? Yes of course. I simply am showing you how Gid feels when we di not accept his son. Now take the story I told you just know and replace you for God and your son For Jesus. The bullies that reject Jesus need to be punished that is why there is a hell

                1. 0
                  jomineposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  oh God, another vector7 and Elijah!

                  1. lorlie6 profile image84
                    lorlie6posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    HAVE MERCY, eh, jomine?  Heeeeelp us!
                    Hehehehe!

                2. lorlie6 profile image84
                  lorlie6posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  In the words of the warden in the marvelous book and movie "Holes",

                  "Excuse Me?" 

                  I do not personally reject the idea of Jesus, but those who do are not deserving of punishment and are not going to my concept of hell.
                  You call them bullies?  That's cowardly itself.  I've called/thought of people as bullies, but that's not my business, it's their's. 
                  They have the problem, not me.
                  I consider your post bullying, but that's my problem, not yours.
                  Bye, WhiteGhost126.
                  L

      2. THWLE profile image60
        THWLEposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        WG126, I believe that no one was "good enough" to gain eternal life through abiding by the law. So Jesus gave Himself as ransom for ALL of us, and the gift, which was His action, is the reason why we all go. No one earned it. This is how God proves His unconditional love for us... and we are not dogs, we are His children... all of us. My humble opinion...

        1. tlmcgaa70 profile image70
          tlmcgaa70posted 4 years ago in reply to this

          GOD is our Master, our Maker, the ultimate authority...HE does not need to "prove" anything to anyone. HE IS and HE DOES whatever pleases HIM and we must accept it. HE has a right to destroy what HE created if HE so chooses. by HIS actions we can know and understand HIS love for us, it is like the air we breathe, it just is, it is never done to "prove" anything to us.

          1. Christinme profile image59
            Christinmeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Amen tlmcgaa .  God is sovereign God .

          2. THWLE profile image60
            THWLEposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            I agree with everything you said tlmcgaa70, except for your last line. He does not have to prove His love for us, but even you said that by His actions we can know and understand His love... So basically you are saying He proved His love to us by His actions... smile and I agree. He didn't have to, but He did.

            Human beings love stories and movies about love and we love seeing people doing heroic things to prove their love for one another... risking their lives, their reputation, or whatever in an attempt to prove love for another. We are wired that way. It is how we think. It is how we feel.

            The ultimate love story is all about showing love... proving love... bringing love... creating in us the capacity to understand and give and receive love.

            My theory: God created a circumstance that us humans would get ourselves into, that is sin. Then He designed the remedy to be something that would cause Himself a great amount of pain. WHY WOULD HE DO THAT? Why not save us through His almighty power and with a giant display of power!!! He humbled Himself, and endured a ridiculous amount of pain, and carried on Himself ALL of the sin of the world, from the beginning through eternity, and died for us... without one single supporter trying to save Him. He did it alone. he did it for us. WHY WHY WHY??? Because of LOVE! It was love that compelled Him. He wanted to show us love by enduring pain on behalf of us... how could anyone deny that? Did He not create the system? Did He not create the remedy? Did He not create good and evil? Did He not create Satan? Did He not KNOW exactly what was going to happen even before it did and does??? Jesus was crucified BEFORE the foundations of the earth were laid! This was the plan form the beginning. Follow that through and read into the implications of all of that. God is love, and loves us unconditionally, and proved it to us, not out of obligation but out of LOVE for us.

            I missed it for years, but now I see it. Narrow is the way and few will find it, oh but when they/we do, it is AMAZING! Everyone enters in, but most take the wide gate... look where the majority are at and then consider where you are.

    2. tlmcgaa70 profile image70
      tlmcgaa70posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      you are forgetting something...
      John 3:16
      King James Version (KJV)
      16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

      that whosoever believeth in HIM should not perish but have ever lasting life...this means there is a condition to gaining everlasting life...believing in CHRIST as the divine Son of the Living GOD, and believing that without HIM we cannot be saved.

      John 3:17
      For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
      MIGHT be saved. not WILL be saved. people believe they can live as they choose and do not need to accept the gift of salvation in order to be saved, and they believe they should be saved regardless of whether or not they obey GOD or accept HIS gift.
      I recently shared a Quote on facebook that I think applies here..."You are free to choose, but you are not free from the consequences of your choice".

      in Revelation it tells that even those who accept salvation can lose it...

      Revelation 3:5
      He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

      "And I will not blot out his name out of the Book of Life"...this implies that once saved not always saved. so how does one keep their salvation? by obeying GOD.

      Ecclesiastes 12:13
      Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

      GOD tells us to not fear man, who can only kill the body, but to fear HIM who can kill both the body and the soul.

      not everyone will be saved, not everyone will make it to heaven. everyone at some point in their life will have to make their choice to accept or reject GOD. no one can blame GOD for the consequences of choosing to reject HIM...we are told well in advance what they will be, and still so many choose to reject HIM, so why should GOD not keep HIS word and do as HE says HE will do?

      1. White Ghost126 profile image61
        White Ghost126posted 4 years ago in reply to this

        "And I will not blot out his name out of the Book of Life"...this implies that once saved not always saved. so how does one keep their salvation? by obeying GOD.

        Once you belive in Christ, that he died for you and that he rose for you. And you confess to him that you are a sinner your name is put in that book and WILL not blot it out. You cannot loose your salvation, but you will be rewarded in heaven for your deeds. The Bible says,

        Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?- James2:17-22

        You must have both works and faith. I agree with your last three paragraphs but it is not possible to loose your salvation. The verse in Revelations proves might point. It does not say And I might not blot out his name or I will if he disobeys. NO it says I will not blot his name out. Both you and I know that Christ is perfect and will never ever lie. This is not a lie it is the heart warming truth that we are the Lords.

      2. THWLE profile image60
        THWLEposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        You may not see it now, but John 3:16 SUPPORTS my theory. How can I possibly say that? How can I say that I absolutely believe in John 3:16 AND say that everyone goes to heaven? The answers are in the details and I thoroughly deal with this very issue in the excerpt from my book, and I have posted it here on Hubpages.

        John 3:16 supports the idea that everyone goes to heaven.

        1. tlmcgaa70 profile image70
          tlmcgaa70posted 4 years ago in reply to this

          15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

          1. THWLE profile image60
            THWLEposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            I was a hardcore mainstream Christian for most of my life. I studied the materials of some of the most respected Bible teachers on the planet. I taught what I had learned to others. I developed discipleship curriculum for our student ministry program. I was also a music minister. I developed an intense church planning manual designed with principles I learned from countless business books and leadership/teamwork books and more, all for the cause of saving people from hell. I was a creation science buff, and a prophecy buff. I know mainstream theology just as good or better than most Christians sitting in the pews today. I know that side because I lived it to an extreme for most of my life.

            Do not think for a moment that I leave out certain Bible passages to pacify my theory. Even in all of my studies before, I never even knew that the idea of everyone making it even existed, until my brother approached me with it. We both set out to DISPROVE it so we could "save" our crazy fellow youth minister. We went through an extremely thorough process to do so and could not disprove it, and ended up believing it ourselves.

            I used many translations (KJV,NIV, NKJV,NLT), along with the Greek and Hebrew dictionary. I read every passage in all four Bibles and checked absolutely every word in the dictionary. I would read slowly, consider all possible meanings of the passage, then apply that to the big picture, or the whole of the Bible. I would then begin to ask any questions that would arise out of that process. I would then hypothesize and then search out the answers to those questions, knowing what I should see if a particular hypothesis was to be supported. I did this for all hypotheses and then draw a more final conclusion, or a theory.

            This process went on and on for months before I felt satisfied in all areas related to answering the question of whether or not everyone will go to heaven.

            My book is my full statement, or the final result of my studies. It answers all the questions that I asked along the way. Whether it be belief, choice, the end times and all related events, hell, etc.... it is dealt with in the 252 pages that we wrote.  Putting only an excerpt out only ends up leaving the reader with more questions. Though some may disagree, and many do smile, the book at least makes my entire case and connects all of the dots within my ideas.

            Using only one verse at a time, or even one small passage at a time, to support a theory is like looking at a picture one pixel at a time and then telling someone what the whole thing really looks like. It does not work that way. The whole of the text must be considered. For instance, your verse from Revelation by itself completely disagrees with Romans 5:18 by itself... proof that one pixel at a time does not work.

            When I stepped back and looked at the big picture and began asking all of the hard questions, and then started hunting for answers, the Lake of Fire and in fact ALL of the places that were supposed to support the idea of hell, became clear and the concept of a place for eternal punishment VANISHED before my eyes.

            I deal with every hard question and run from none, because I do not care about my ego or my theory as much as I care about knowing the truth. Can you do the same?

            1. tlmcgaa70 profile image70
              tlmcgaa70posted 4 years ago in reply to this

              T...i am 42 yrs old. most people who turn to GOD, do so as the result of some great revelation to themselves. not me. i never experienced that OMG! moment. i was given to GOD before my birth and have walked with HIM, been guided and taught by HIM since i was old enough to understand HIS existence. HE taught me the importance of obeying HIM, of keeping HIS Sabbath, of the wrongness of celebrating traditional christian holidays, and the folly of listening to mans interpretation of HIS Holy Word. when i have a question about the meaning of things, GOD answers them. I have asked HIM about this. everything HE is showing me tells me hell exists. death and hell will be destroyed in the lake of fire along with anyone not found in the book of Life. I trust GOD. i do not trust mans interpretation of GODs Holy Word. i expect we will just have to agree to disagree on this topic.

              1. THWLE profile image60
                THWLEposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                I don't mean to sound hateful, but really? Hey, if the almighty has explained everything to you in full, then who am I to debate with you? If you are right, then He has done me a disfavor by allowing me to use a lot of hard work, logic, and reasoning to come to my conclusions... cause apparently I cannot trust myself or the logical processes that He put into my programming.

                However, I respectfully agree to disagree with you. I do not expect to change everyone's mind, nor is that my primary goal. I just like to push so that I am pushed back. When I am pushed back, it forces me to re-examine parts of my ideas... this only helps me sort out what is truth and what is not.

            2. Chris Neal profile image83
              Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Sounds like you should do a hub series.

    3. 70
      Robertr04posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      TWHE are you saying I can live any way I chose and not worry about adverse consequences?

      1. THWLE profile image60
        THWLEposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Yes. That is not the point, but yes. Do you need the fear of hell to do the right things in this life? Or can you do good because it is the right thing to do? This is what makes this so great. The ball is in our court. When not under the thumb of eternal punishment or even death (that is not having eternal life) we are free to make this world what we want it to be. What would you do if you KNEW that you would go to heaven no matter what you did? How would you live? Knowing that I believe this way, what kind of lifestyle do you think I live?

        People do what they want to do regardless of the threat of eternal punishment, because no one buys it. I think they do not buy it because God's spirit is in all of us and they know better deep down inside.

        Jer 31:31  Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
        Jer 31:32  Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:  (not the Law, but a different covenant)
        Jer 31:33  But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
        Jer 31:34  And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall ALL know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

        He is in all of us. This is the covenant we received from Christ. Some will say this hasn't fully come into play yet, but to them I would say, check Hebrews chapter 8.

        All things are permissible, but not all tings are beneficial. Choose to do good because it is the right thing to do, not because your Father has supposedly threatened to burn you if you do not.

        Together we can make this world a better place, a world of peace, a world where the human race can truly become one.

        1. 70
          Robertr04posted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Another question, I want to be sure I am understanding clearly what you are saying. Everyone will go to heaven no matter how they have lived their lives, unrighteously or righteously, good or evil, ungodly or godly, whether they believe in God or not, without repentence (for those who believe it is necessary to repent)?

          1. THWLE profile image60
            THWLEposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            As insane as that may sound to a mainstream Christian (and I know, I was one, (hardcore) when I first heard that the theory existed), yes. Again though, that is not the point. Many people on this earth today do not believe in hell, and they are not out there living like animals... and they won't. Have faith in the human race. The idea of hell is not what is keeping people in line, and the idea of no hell is not what is making some people do bad things.

            1. 70
              Robertr04posted 4 years ago in reply to this

              OK T.  I understand this is theory, as all religious beliefs are. And yes, I believe we should do the right thing towards others and ourselves without the threat of death. There are those who do not believe in "hell" and those who do, that lead "good" lives. You are free to believe whatever it is you believe and I wish you the best. I personally will not follow your path. We have had faith in the human race 6000-2million years, depending on who you talk to, and now , all of a sudden, we get it together. Could be. I have other thoughts. Anyway, I am a believer, but not Christian.

            2. Chris Neal profile image83
              Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Be that as it may, Universalism contradicts the Bible. I agree that there are "good" unbelievers just as surely as there are "bad" believers.

        2. Chris Neal profile image83
          Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          So what are you saying?

          I think you take the internalization a bit too literally. Yes, absolutely, Jesus lives in us. But there are still external rules as laid down by both the Father and the Son. And many of Jesus' parables deal with hell. Now, as to your point about "most people not buying it," I agree absolutely. But since you're quoting the OT, it would be appropriate to point out that it wouldn't be the first time people didn't buy what the Scripture was "selling." And I assume you know what the consequences were.

          1. THWLE profile image60
            THWLEposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Upon a thorough study of everything Jesus had to say, the concept of a place of eternal punishment cannot be found. The existence of hell is the easiest of all CAM (my acronym for the Currently Accepted Message) theories to debunk. It just is not there.

            How can I say such a thing when you and I know both know what the gospels say? Sounds crazy, right? My claims are fully substantiated and backed up by the Bible and the words of Christ, but I am not going to copy and paste my full statement from my book here on Hubpages. It is too long and too thorough.

            Hell vanishes when the idea of its existence is put through real and logical scrutiny. It fizzles out and disappears when tested. It is a pathetic lie, a fairy tale made by some evil men, back in the day, to be used as a control device to make people slaves to the church. No more can this idea be held over us, because it is too easy to dissolve. We have every tool necessary to study this on our own and learn the truth for ourselves.

            All anyone has to do is ask questions and look for answers. Ask the tough questions and do not stop asking them until you have answers to all of them. The CAM makes no sense, so start with the obvious questions and go from there. A little logic, a Greek and Hebrew dictionary (might I suggest the E-Sword, a free download study Bible w easily accessible definitions), and the will to search out the matter is all anyone needs to find the truth... that is, that Hell does not exist in the Bible... or in the afterlife.

            1. Chris Neal profile image83
              Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Okay, I'm asking. So far, all you've got is a lot of hyperbole. A few real examples of statements that "don't stand up" would be good.

              1. THWLE profile image60
                THWLEposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                I am not going to rewrite my entire chapter 6 here in this forum.

                Hell is not in the OT. The word "hell" is an English word that King James and the gang used (only half of the time) for the word sheole... which is the world of the dead.

                Same thing for the word "Hades" in the NT. It is the world of the dead... same as Sheole.

                The other word is Ghenna, which is the city dump outside of town. I know, I know... I am told (and used to teach) that Jesus was using this as the closest comparison so that the Jews of His day would "get it". However, He NEVER makes that comparison... EVER. What He does is uses a word that those people knew to be only one thing... that is the city dump. Since they had no previous concept of a place of eternal punishment, they had no way of putting two and two together, because one of the "two's" was missing.

                This is what I call "The Case of the Missing Word". Where is the real word for this place of eternal punishment? Is it not important enough to get it's own name? Where is the chapter and verse that explains what it is and what it is called? Why did He not make it plain to His people that this place existed? He did not... because it does not exist.

                It all boils down to the Lake of Fire found in Revelation.

                Jesus talked a lot about fire, judgment, and a great separation that was about to happen. He said that the judgment of the world was "now"... 2,000 years ago. The axe was laid at the roots... way back then.

                In short, the day of judgment was the day of the cross. The day in which those with sin would be punished and those without would be given eternal life was the day of the cross. That day Jesus carried the sins of the entire world. When the judgment hammer fell, He was found guilty and we were set free. We were changed in the twinkling of an eye.

                He represented our sinful man when He died. When He died, we ALL symbolically died:

                2Co 5:14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: (notice that the word "if" does not imply that perhaps the One did not die... this is an "if/then" statement)

                2Co 5:15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

                2Co 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.

                2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. (again, an "if/then" statement, but just to be sure...)

                2Co 5:18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; (ALL things are, in fact, of God)

                2Co 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

                God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto Himself.

                Again... in very short manner:

                If one died, we ALL died... but where and how? This is the lake of fire. Everyone of our "old man" died when He died, because He represented all of us. This was the great separation. Our "old man" died in that lake of fire. We were all tossed in. He separated the good in us from the bad and burned up the bad in the lake of fire... to never be remembered again.

                As far as when this revelation was given: It was given to Jesus first, so that He (Jesus, not John) could tell His servants (the disciples) what was about to happen (2,000 years ago). He did give them the revelation, in part, in Matthew 24. The Revelation, or full disclosure by definition, was given to John, in symbolic form (it was signified) to fill us in on the rest of the story... what happened behind the scene during the final week of Christ's life on this earth. It does not matter when John got the full revelation.

                Jesus told His disciple that the hour in which this was to all go down would come at a time in which they least expected it. The moment in time when Jesus would obtain the ultimate victory and everything would be finished would be at time in which mankind least expected it.

                When He was on the cross, beaten and dead, He did not look victorious... but this was His finest hour. The hour in which everything changed. When He died, we all died... three days later when He rose, we all rose with Him.

                Hell is not real. It is not in the Bible. It is not supported by scripture or logic. It is easily dispelled.

                Jesus won the battle and finished the work that His father had begun. He finished it with the ultimate victory.

                His victory came 2,000 years ago in The Hour We Least Expected.

                1. THWLE profile image60
                  THWLEposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  THWLE smile

                2. tlmcgaa70 profile image70
                  tlmcgaa70posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  i know i am going to regret this...but do you realize what a load of garbage this is??? if what you say is true then why are there so many people committing so many evil acts in the world today?

                  1. THWLE profile image60
                    THWLEposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    why? because they are human. Why did God forgive them all? Unconditional love... that is, love WITHOUT condition, for all humans who commit sin... which is every single one of us.

  9. lorlie6 profile image84
    lorlie6posted 4 years ago

    WhiteGhost126, this is a P.S.

    In my concept of heaven and hell, I would appreciate you not calling folks bullies since you'd be guilty of the sin of bearing false witness.  In my concept, I repeat. 
    So better than bearing false witness, keep thy trap closed.
    I've tried it and it does help!

  10. Christinme profile image59
    Christinmeposted 4 years ago

    It is never about us . It is not about us deserving to go to heaven . Not all will see heaven. All man has a choice.

    It is about receiving Jesus as your Lord and saviour . If we give our lives to Christ , Christ makes his home in us and starts a good work in us. We are purchased by Christs blood.
    Because we have been washed in HiS blood and have Christ in us "Christian" we have Sonship. God looks at us when we die and sees His Sons blood covering us and Jesus within us. He sees his Son and cannot deny or destroy HIMSELF so we go back to HIM in heaven.

    It really is not complicated . We all have a choice .
    Ask yourself what do you choose today?

    1. Christinme profile image59
      Christinmeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      The key to salvation is Christ within . It is a lie that we can just "say" the prayer of salvation with our mouth and receive a "get out of hell free card". It is believing with your heart and asking Jesus into your heart to start His work in you that saves. This naturally brings forth good works and a transformation inide us. By your fruits you will be known .

    2. 0
      jomineposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      All lies and Nonsense.

      1. Christinme profile image59
        Christinmeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Jomine,I am sorry that you feel you have to follow me around hubpages and discredit me. Nothing man can do will stop Gods words not coming back void.
        God have mercy on you jomine for you know not what you do.
        You do not offend me for if God is with me, who can rise against me.

        1. 0
          jomineposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Discredit you? I'm only discrediting the nonsense you write. You presume you can speak for god?
          Following you? You have too high an opinion about yourself.
          And I know what I'm doing, it is you who don't understand what you write nor understand reason.

  11. 0
    cottageindustryposted 4 years ago

    Passionate responses, but I have always wondered what would happen to all the other faithfuls of the other religions. Personally no one knows and I say live your life righteously and you would be fine. Why worry about what happens after you die? You're dead and that settles the matter.

    The fear of after death retributions has been used to traumatize and rule the people.

    1. Christinme profile image59
      Christinmeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      You ask what will happen to others from other religions . I can only reply to this from my Christian standpoint which I have enormous faith in .
      Jesus Christ said " I am the way the truth and the life, no one comes to the father except thro me " . I stand firm in the knowing there is but one God ( Father, Son and Holy Spirit) . I have no doubt that other religions are trying to reach this one God.
      Salvation and acceptance to heaven comes through union with God through christ Jesus. Jesus is accepted into our hearts and God sees not us but His Son Jesus and we are allowed to heaven. No Jesus in us, no admittance. Regardless of works or being a "good " person.
      This lays heavy on my heart as God wants us all to be saved but we have free will to choose. God is gracious and wants willing servants and believers. He is not a tryant , we can choose. I thank God that you are thinking about this and I will pray for you Cottageindustry. please feel free to contact me with any other questions, it would be an honour to share with you.

      1. Timlove profile image82
        Timloveposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        I agree with all you say but the bible says "every knee will bow and every tongue will confess Jesus christ is Lord" why does it have to be in this life to escape eternal damnation? it does not say in scripture we have to do that in this life only, in fact the scriptures say if you believe on him you have eternal life,so believing on him and then being sentenced to hell for eternity is contradiction, The whole concept of eternal torment is a contradiction to scripture. If the punishment for sin was eternal damnation then why isn't Jesus in hell today?

        1. THWLE profile image60
          THWLEposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Excellent point. And who said that ever knee shall bow by force?  I believe every one will willingly do so in light of gaining a full knowledge once there.

          1. Christinme profile image59
            Christinmeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            I think of it as this , that God is the migthy judge and we will all see Him and be judged after our earthly body has died.  After all have seen his glory we will be sent to heaven or hell.
            It says in the bible that only people who God can recognise will go to heaven.
            " They will say unto me , Lord Lord have we not done great works in Your name but I will say Go away I do not KNOW you. "
            This implies that even "Christians" who have only proclaimed with their mouths and not their HEARTS that Christ is Lord will not see heaven.

            God bless you as you search and I lead you to your Father in heaven that He may reveal to You His truths as only He truly knows.

            1. Timlove profile image82
              Timloveposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Again Christinme, you are reading things into the word that are not there and denying what is. where in that scripture you just quoted does it say anything about an eternal damnation. It just says depart from me. It does not even say what that day is. I believe these people are some of the preachers of today doing and saying things in the name of God and they dont even know him, and they are departed from him. that scripture in context is talking about judging people by their fruits. I believe there is a hell but it is a place where anything that is not of God is burned up and man is purified of self and brought to the point of accepting Christ. That is not a license to sin,Disturbia there is a hell fire.

              1. Christinme profile image59
                Christinmeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Yes, judging by their fruits , I entirely agree. I am glad we agree that man is looking to other men (pastors) for Gods revelation and not God himself. A good pastor ( shepherd) encourages his flock to yield to God ( Father, Son and Holy Spirit) to reveal Himself to them . So many are being misled, the Holy Spirit inside me grieves over it. I am a sinner, not perfect in my words, no man can explain Gods way only Himself.  I am very blessed as a sinner and humble woman that Jesus has revealed to me His majesty and glory , and it is true that no man can stand in His true presence. I urge you to die to self and give yourself as a living sacrifice so He can reveal Himself to you . God bless you . xxxxxxxxxx

                PS I remember in the bible about the story in Luke about the rich man and lazarus. It clearly states that once i the place of torment that a chasm stops anyone then crossing  to heaven. The rich man begged Lazurus to return and warn his family that the place of torment exsisted.

                1. Timlove profile image82
                  Timloveposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  We do agree on seeking God for ourselfs and not just taking mans word on things. I am not perfect either and I am sure still have a lot more dying to self to do. I do seek God every day and have set my affections on things above and not on things of this world and as long as we do that we will always stay on trac even when old self pops up when your affections are on God you repent and get back on trac.

                  As far as the rich man and begger Lazurus. This cannot be talking about the traditional hell you believe in eternal separation from God because the rich man is able to talk to Abraham that does not fit the criteria for an eternal place of torment seperated from God. Also what stands out to me is the rich man has obviously not repented he is still wanting people to do for him "give me some water" "go to my family" so maybe the chasm is still there for him because he has not yet been purified of self.

                  I knew as achild before I even new what scripture was all about that God had a better plan than some of his children that are so precious to him and he loves so much would be tormented for eternity apart from him,and as i grew in the knowledge of his word I saw that scripture does not support such a thing. God bless you also.

                  1. Chris Neal profile image83
                    Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Once you are dead, it's too late to be "purified of self." Jesus made it clear in the story that the torment is eternal. If you didn't listen and heed the warnings in this life, it's not going to happen on the other side. And He is also saying that we have plenty of warning here on Earth. The rich man is eternally separated from God, even if he can talk to Abraham. That's the plain meaning of what Jesus actually said, and He wasn't cryptic about it.

                  2. Christinme profile image59
                    Christinmeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    I agree timlove that God does truly love HIS children ( us). God loves all man and wants all to be saved . BUT there is freewill in the world and those that do not accept the gift of salvation through Jesus Christ will not see heaven . It only takes the faith of a mustard seed for Christ to grow in us . Heaven is a totally Holy place . Some men are sadly blinded by satan and worship him , they will not see heaven unfortunately and that is really sad when you have seen demons and know the truth about the dark realms.
                    God bless you Timlove and continue to yield to Father God Himself . xxx

  12. Disturbia profile image60
    Disturbiaposted 4 years ago

    What will happen to the people that don't make it?

    They will be chillin' at my place. All you can eat buffet, open bar, live entertainment, heated pool, swimsuit optional.  Oh wait, that was my daughter's graduation party.  Never mind.

  13. Jerami profile image77
    Jeramiposted 4 years ago

    We may All make it?    i just won't think it is right though, if some of us aren't taken out behind a barn and wooped good.

  14. Mmargie1966 profile image90
    Mmargie1966posted 4 years ago

    What exactly do you mean by don't make it?  That is such a vague question.

    1. jacharless profile image83
      jacharlessposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      +1 My thoughts precisely.

      1. Druid Dude profile image60
        Druid Dudeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        The key is Alpha and Omega. Besides, what could someone say of a shepherd who loses so many sheep?

        1. mischeviousme profile image59
          mischeviousmeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          The alpha is the beginning of one's consciousness, the omega is it's end. The open and the close...

          1. Druid Dude profile image60
            Druid Dudeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            First one in line and the last one in line. Point man and rear guard. Get all dem lost sheep, an' put 'em in da pen!

            1. mischeviousme profile image59
              mischeviousmeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              The loonybin seems more appropriate... That includes all of us mental patients.

              1. Druid Dude profile image60
                Druid Dudeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                God is the chief loony.smile

                1. mischeviousme profile image59
                  mischeviousmeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  If by God you mean the encompassing idea of man's perceptions, I totally agree.

                  1. Druid Dude profile image60
                    Druid Dudeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    I mean that which lies outside of man's general perception. Things do sometimes. Discovering what they are is what got us here, and we don't have all of the pieces yet to form a complete picture, but, that thing which we call God has all of the same character traits that we ourselves are in need of controlling, so, if we are crazy, it runs in the family.

  15. SomewayOuttaHere profile image60
    SomewayOuttaHereposted 4 years ago

    luved the the thread title!

    http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_oWJGQgCJ7Lg/TUN5GO_4xOI/AAAAAAAAABE/dHu1_WWjcr4/s1600/funny_300_sparta_dine_in_hell.jpg

  16. 61
    haj3396posted 4 years ago

    There are many kinds of Love, and what I am gleaning for your writings are, you think justice is not love. God paid a price for the whole world. Now if you done want to except that act for you then some one have to pay, and that some one is you. Let me make it plain, God had to die for you so the law could be upheld  and you saying I will not except God's act for me. Then you will pay for yourself, is that fair? If you do something wrong in the world today you have to pay a price, no one can pay that price for you, But, if they could you would be vary happy. Except God's act and live, God truly love you, but, his love can not over rule his justice.

    1. Christinme profile image59
      Christinmeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Exactly, Jesus paid our sin debt for us , and if we do not accept His offer, then the debt is still outstanding . The wages of righteousness are peace but the wages of sin is death . We cannot get any clearer than that.
      I PTL that I have accepted Christs offer and am saved through His blood.

 
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