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New Low Rate Of Earnings?

  1. Dale Hyde profile image86
    Dale Hydeposted 4 years ago

    I have noticed that for the past few weeks, especially this past seven day period, that my earnings per view has dropped dramatically.  On an average, for the year I have been here, even during the slump viewing times, I would earn approximately .50 per 100 page views.  That is a give or take figure, but a good average, month after month.

    I am now seeing much less earnings per 100 page views.  From what I am seeing it is almost 50 percent less now for that past week or two.

    Has anyone else noticed this?  Have I missed some important update hidden in some forum thread about new lower earning rates here on HP?

    1. wilderness profile image95
      wildernessposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      I have not, and in fact it has increased slightly.

      I think it has a lot to do with what advertisers will pay and that in turn depends on the day of the week and the time of year.  Day camps for children, aren't likely to pay much in the middle of winter, while someone selling home improvement products might.

      1. Dale Hyde profile image86
        Dale Hydeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        You could well be correct.  I just have never noticed such a drastic change.   Thanks for the response. smile

        1. ScipioWarrior profile image76
          ScipioWarriorposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          The time definitely does matter. I write hubs about saving money and during black Friday and the week before Christmas I was earning $5-$10/day, when I average 2ยข/day. Talk about a drastic change! It's amazing how people's search trends greatly impact your hubs.

          1. Jean Bakula profile image93
            Jean Bakulaposted 4 years ago in reply to this


            1. mattforte profile image93
              mattforteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Jean, I mean this in the nicest way possible...but PLEASE learn to use paragraphs. I tried reading your post but just could not. This isn't me trying to tear you down, but just saying what I know others will think. We need structure in order to read long posts like this sad

              1. Jean Bakula profile image93
                Jean Bakulaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                I was in a hurry and trying to help by explaining my 2 yrs. of experiences with HP and other writing sites.

                I don't come on forums to get Grammar lessons.

                Since you are psychic (knowing what everyone else thinks) you may enjoy reading my Metaphysical work.

                1. mattforte profile image93
                  mattforteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Well, thanks for taking it personal - when I specifically said I didn't mean anything mean by it. It is t a matter of being psychic - it is a simple matter of being hard to read.
                  "I was in a hurry" is all that needed to be said. Thanks.

            2. the girls profile image82
              the girlsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Interesting information. Thanks for sharing your observations and actual experiences.

      2. TIMETRAVELER2 profile image93
        TIMETRAVELER2posted 4 years ago in reply to this

        I've noticed this trend also for the past month.  My views are good, but my CPM's are around half of what they have been.  I'm thinking that advertisers thought they had a very good holiday season and decided they didn't have to pay as much, I've earned as high as $13 CPM so getting $4 plus is a real kick in the teeth!

        1. Jean Bakula profile image93
          Jean Bakulaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          It's just that so many people think they can say, "I mean this in a nice way," make a smile face, and then insult you. It's a trend I've been seeing, and I think it's rude.

          All you had to do was skip reading it, which you apparently did anyway. That's all that was necessary.  To make a comment like that is just like saying, "I don't want to hurt your feelings, but you s**k". Why did you say anything at all? There was no need for any commentary if you didn't want to read what I had to say.

          I do tend to write long things, but the topics that interest me are detailed. I dislike the forums on HP because this sort of nonsense is common. The issue was about money and writing, nothing personal besides that should have come into this thread in the first place. No hard feelings. Best wishes in your writing.

      3. Stove And Home profile image92
        Stove And Homeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Anyone have some government cheese they can pass out? I am going to be hungry next month!

      4. Frangipanni profile image83
        Frangipanniposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Hi, I just hit the 200 views and have made $0.25? I'm new so not sure where this stands? Any ideas?

    2. mattforte profile image93
      mattforteposted 4 years ago

      I don't know the exact formula HP uses for their ad program, but I can tell you this: Not all ads are equal.

      Using the AdSense model..earnings are directly related to content keywords. If you write about a high dollar niche, the ads are worth more because advertisers pay more. Write poetry, and ads probably aren't going to be worth much (Unless your poems happen to have some super keywords in them of course, which would be kind of fun to play with actually).

      Somebody else may have researched the HP ads program more than myself, but if they work anything like AdSense does then your answer is in your content. If the same content is paying less per view, then  for some reason it just means the advertisers suddenly started paying less to advertise for your keywords.
      HOWEVER there is one more factor to consider: Clicks.
      A clickthrough is worth a lot more than a view. It could be that you've been getting a lot of clicks on your ads, making your earnings seem higher - then recently for some reason your clicks have dropped (could just be coincidental), you will notice a decrease like this. Food for thought.

    3. Dale Hyde profile image86
      Dale Hydeposted 4 years ago

      Thanks to the few who managed to stay on topic and answer my questions.

      Hopefully we will see an improvement.  I do see that it is not just me that is experiencing this decline in earnings.

      1. ngureco profile image87
        ngurecoposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        It all started around 14th December 2012. The traffic reduced and the earnings per 1000 views reduced substantially.

        This may have something to do with the fact that most advertisers have their advertisement budget for the year finished before the Christmas holidays. With few advertisers, the bidding value of clicks had to come down.

        There may also have been a panda update that lowered the traffic of this site, and that in itself mean lower earnings per click than would have been before.

        We have seen a few months of December here over the few years that we have been here but the earnings per click has been lowest this year.

        By today, most companies will be back to business after the long holidays. Expect traffic to increase as well as the earnings per click.

        1. Dale Hyde profile image86
          Dale Hydeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          I shall remain hopeful. Thanks. smile

          1. Jean Bakula profile image93
            Jean Bakulaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            It seems the money picks up in the Fall, and stays steady until around May, where it drops for the summer. That's the only cycle I can see so far, after 2 yrs. I'm sure all the data mentioned matters, but it is hard to pick one.

            Plus many of the people who had the most knowledge left HP, and I see a lot of advice that even I know is wrong. It's best to be hopeful.

    4. Winterfate profile image98
      Winterfateposted 4 years ago

      I think I may be having the same problem as you, Dale. hmm

      I've noticed my CPM being naughty again recently. That is to say, the more impressions I'm getting, the less CPM I have. yikes

    5. mistyhorizon2003 profile image91
      mistyhorizon2003posted 4 years ago

      I believe CPM depends on the 'quality' of views, so if a view only results in the person spending seconds on the page your CPM will be much lower than someone who spends a number of minutes on the page, likewise a surge from another site such as Facebook, Pinterest etc is not really considered 'quality' traffic.

      A month or so back I had a couple of days where I received about 20,000 views extra per day from Reddit. I fully expected my income to jump up accordingly as it had done on a similar previous occasion, but instead of earning about $50-$60 per day as I hoped, I only earned about $32 each day. A knowledgeable friend said that  is typical when you get a large amount of traffic just for the sake of traffic, and that targeted traffic always makes you more.

    6. paradigmsearch profile image84
      paradigmsearchposted 4 years ago

      I'm not a happy camper either at the moment. But the spark of hope continues...

    7. jellygator profile image92
      jellygatorposted 4 years ago

      Something has certainly changed. As I was completing the Apprenticeship course, I steadily climbed to about 150 hits per day total and was making $1 or so a day.

      I'm still writing on similar topics, with similar pay showing in Google AdWords, and I'm now hitting 600-750 hits per day total. This week, my max earning was $1.50 and I'm showing less than a buck for yesterday with more than 670 hits. (Oh, and had an Amazon order to boot, and Google's showing 4 click-throughs on ads, where I usually see 0-2.)

      1. Dale Hyde profile image86
        Dale Hydeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        I am at 1.00 per day on what used to be 2.50 per day.   So still quite a reduction in the amount of money made per the ad program.  I would love to see the actual figures that these numbers come from. We assume that HP makes 40 percent of profit on our views..... what stats show this and prove this?  How do we know it is not 90 percent?  How do we know it does not fluctuate as we are seeing now.....maybe they are taking more and giving less.  We have no way to check.  Our pay here is based on trust, lol, in a business world that is becoming even more competitive..... Trust???

    8. Stacie L profile image87
      Stacie Lposted 4 years ago

      Yes I've taken a major hit in earnings as well. I also haven't written anything new for some time as I wanted to see how the Google changes were going to play out.

    9. mattforte profile image93
      mattforteposted 4 years ago

      You guys put way too much stock into "how much money per hit"
      This is never ever ever going to be stable. To start with, if your viewers click on ads - you earn more. (A lot more) Also, this is based on quality.
      Getting a lot of low quality traffic is going to reduce overall earnings. (Soapbox) This is why I complain so much about the garbage hubs, the "30 in 30", the god aweful poetry, etc. While those low quality hubs don't bring in much traffic per hub, having a million of those hubs getting a couple hits a week is enough to drag down the overall value of the HP ad program - reducing your earnings. (/soapbox)

      So - yes, sometimes your earnings per view is going to be a lot less, while other times it is going to be a lot more. That is why your earnings aren't calculated instantaneously - it takes a while to figure it all out. If HubPages brings in less GROSS, then your cut of the profit is going to be less. This is going to be the same anywhere you go. Host your own site, throw up some AdSense, and you will see the exact same fluctuations. So stop trying to imply that maybe HubPages is trying to scam you (By asking for "proof" that they only take 60%) and just deal with it.

      1. jellygator profile image92
        jellygatorposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        I partly agree with you, and partly disagree:

        While I agree that it's ludicrous to assume that there's some sort of conspiracy, I think it's an entirely valid question to ask: "How do we know that we're getting what we are told we're getting?" This is *especially* true when the numbers aren't making sense.

        Your example of the garbage hubs is a perfect example of why this question should be asked. It can be difficult to evaluate what's being done well and what isn't. It can be tricky figuring out what is paid directly to you by Google and what's part of an ad pool. It's nearly impossible to figure out what ads were placed where, and how much an advertiser paid for it.

        If it wasn't for the fact that many people end up working for about 1/1000th of minimum wage, it might be fine to say, "it's just the way it is." But when there is a drastic inversion of pay, heck yes, I'd like to know why.

        1. Jean Bakula profile image93
          Jean Bakulaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          I am finally getting paid each month instead of bi-monthly after 2 years.

          But it takes about 8,000 views a week for me to be able to do that. Plus I've only written one piece on HP since 12/1/12. I've been writing on other sites and my blog, but am unsure if I should just write here, as it took so long to make any money.

          I spent most of 2012 getting my blog up and running, and have been writing on Wizzley and Infobarrel. You need to be accepted by both, but as long as you are a decent writer, will be accepted before the 10 pieces they ask for.

          That way you are leaving the door open to write at other sites with the required beginning articles out of the way, and most sites start releasing your URL's to Google after 5 articles. I have concerns at Wizzley, as the money source is Google Adsense, which only adds to pennies a day. At least HP has a system in place. I notice Infobarrel is also beginning a new payment plan which sounds similar to HP. So it may be wiser to spread your work around.

        2. mattforte profile image93
          mattforteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Take a look at the ad program earnings report. It lays out your CPM, which are more than reasonable rates. What more do you want? Should HP start issuing their earnings statements via email? Employee payroll checks? Be reasonable.
          If you want them to hire a staff of people to compound all the data from all the advertisers every day and break it down to the minute details that show how much you and HP earned from your hubs..be prepared to take a huge cut in pay...so that they can afford the extra manpower.

          1. jellygator profile image92
            jellygatorposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            By all means, educate me if I am misunderstanding, but I don't see where it lays out the CPM at all. I see only where it says that I have earned a certain amount... not what the CPM rate is.

            Yes, if I have to pay taxes on my earnings, then I think that HP's responsibility is to issue some sort of quarterly or annual report at least, and same for Google. And no, it would not cost extra because they'd simply be posting what their accountant already prepares for the IRS.

            1. wilderness profile image95
              wildernessposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Go to: "earnings", "earnings reports"

              Click "all programs" button and change it to "ad program". Click "submit"
              That will give you the CPM figures, and you can get it for any period desired.

              If you want HP's reports of it's income, become a stockholder.  Otherwise you aren't entitled to it any more than any other corporation that you do business with.  Or am I misunderstanding what report you want?

              1. jellygator profile image92
                jellygatorposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                No, that helps and it is the kind of info I've been saying we should have. I've tried to find that and somehow missed it for the last... forever long.

                One more question, then. How is it possible that if I have 700 hits, that it only shows 400 ad impressions? At a CPM rate, with each ad program module containing 3 ads, it should show a total of at least 2,100 impressions, shouldn't it?

                1. wilderness profile image95
                  wildernessposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  700 hits X 60% = 420 page impressions - pretty close to 400.

                  Always remember that the 60% is truly random, and will seldom be exactly 60%.  Lower traffic will exacerbate that as well. 

                  And don't forget that the 700 hits is on a 24 hour rolling basis, while the impression # is on a daily basis.  It would be difficult to get an exact comparison there as well.

                  1. jellygator profile image92
                    jellygatorposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    That makes sense for the most part. Although it should still be x3 for each module presenting 3 ads. If your method's correct, we're actually at a 20% rate.

                    1. wilderness profile image95
                      wildernessposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                      I guess it would be for ad impressions.

                      For the most part, though, we look at the number of visitors; the number of page impressions.  We talk of how earnings per 1000 visits, not per 1000 ads seen. 

                      It doesn't matter much which, as long as everyone is on the same page.

                    2. mattforte profile image93
                      mattforteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                      You are assuming every ad is part of the HubPages ad program. Some of those ad slots get AdSense impressions...which are reflected in your own AdSense accounts.

                      As far as "I pay taxes so I should have the right" that makes zero sense at all. HubPages is not a government program....so your taxes don't mean anything to them. The taxes you are paying are on your own reported earnings. If they paid you more...you'd be making more taxes. You aren't paying taxes on HubPages's cut...so that argument is silly.

    10. Bard of Ely profile image87
      Bard of Elyposted 4 years ago

      My earnings are actually going up, not a lot but much better than last month's!

    11. paradigmsearch profile image84
      paradigmsearchposted 4 years ago

      Popped up today. Just saying.

      1. Dale Hyde profile image86
        Dale Hydeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Not sure what popped up.  My pay is up and views down, so not bad for a one day rally.  Now about this silly line, "Just saying."   That sentence makes no sense at all.  Just sayin, just sayin...... If you are gonna be a smart arse, then just make your statement instead of "just saying"....be a man or a woman and stop hiding behind, "just saying."  It is childish, started on the spur of the moment and now it is trendy and cool to say, "Just saying...."   It is like "whatever."   "Just saying" and "whatever" are just something to throw out there to appear to be superior or sarcastic. Just saying..........

    12. Grant's World profile image80
      Grant's Worldposted 4 years ago

      My page views have dropped drastically over the last couple of months. My earnings as well. I thought it was something maybe Google did but I am thinking not. I started deleting some hubs and posting them on another site.
      I have always thought HubPages was a great place to learn and grow but not so sure anymore.

      So long answer short - yes my page views and earnings have dropped as well.

    13. paradigmsearch profile image84
      paradigmsearchposted 4 years ago

      Another relatively good CPM day. Just saying... big_smile

      1. wilderness profile image95
        wildernessposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Ah, paradigm - didn't you see where you're not allowed to say "just saying"? smile

        Mine took another big jump yesterday, too - to the highest point of the month.  Just saying...

    14. cfin profile image80
      cfinposted 4 years ago

      Mine has also risen by 20%. This follows are large drop from last week.

    15. paradigmsearch profile image84
      paradigmsearchposted 4 years ago

      Yep, saw it. My rascalness continues. Just saying... lol

    16. jellygator profile image92
      jellygatorposted 4 years ago

      The jumps and drops in views strike me as pretty normal. Over the last year, I've observed something of a pattern on my account and what I've seen others talk about:

      Your guys' hits have gone up today, while mine has dropped yesterday and today by about 8%. I'd seen a steady climb for a couple weeks just before that, to higher hits than ever before. That followed a big drop. And so on and so on.

      This is purely guesswork on my part, but I believe that Google uses some sort of evaluation/de-indexing/re-ranking process that is applied to some, but not all, of their servers at once. When my hits drop sharply, my traffic report shows a drop from Google.com but not from Google.ph, for instance. I'm sure they have a bunch of redundancy in their systems and servers. So when server A is undergoing it's routine maintenance, server B or C handles the redirects. But since server B doesn't contain identical information as server A, ranking is affected. Once server A comes back on, server B might undergo its maintenance.

      As the process is being performed on the servers most likely to contain North American traffic, it affects us the most, while when the servers containing Russian material are hit, we see less effect.

      Of course, all of this is different than the Panda and other algorithm updates, which also have an effect and may trigger routine maintenance procedures on a more frequent schedule than usual WHILE also affecting ranking of pages/sites.

    17. daisydayz profile image86
      daisydayzposted 4 years ago

      Hi Dale actually I had noticed my CPM rate plummet the last 2 weeks but it actually jumped up a fair bit the last 2 days. The start of Dec was aroung $5.50 CPM then Chritsmas was closer to $3.70CPM (which anoyed me enough!) but last 2 weeks it actually dropped to below $2 for a few days! V annoying! But its gone back to $3.50 the last 2 days, so fingers crossed it was just a little slump. Hope yours picks up too!

    18. lindalou1963 profile image76
      lindalou1963posted 4 years ago

      I've only read about 15 entries on this post and this has helped me to learn more about earning on hub pages than any of the hubs I have read on the subject. I've only been with adsense a couple of weeks and I've only earned .52 but now I know what to do to increase my earnings!

      Thanks to everyone who posted tips in this forum!