Misha, but if she had left off the reference to her hub, she wouldn't be a spammer, right? Maybe she just doesn't understand the rules yet.
She still would have been spamming, cause her single hub is exactly on this topic, so it is pretty obvious the purpose of the thread was to promote the hub.
Misha, by that kind of reasoning, we could all be accused of being spammers. We tend to want to talk about topics that we are interested in, and we write hubs about those topics, too. Interacting with others in the forums is one way to promote our hubs, directly or indirectly. I understand that we aren't supposed to be too direct in promoting our hubs. We're not supposed to post a link. Maybe we shouldn't mention the title of the hub, either. But if there's a real person behind this posting, and she really wants to talk about mother/daughter relationships, it should probably be okay.
Aya, your hypothetical case could be a borderline, but this particular lady is spamming, slice it or dice it. She posted three threads with the same wording, outright promoting her hub.
I think I have to agree with Misha on this one. I just finished reading the hub refered to and it doesn't read like she's seeking advice. The hub is 'to be continued' so archdaw knows where she's going with it. And Misha, I noticed the other threads as well and wondered if there was a connection, so thanks for addressing that.
But since the topic is off and running, I'm curious to know the answer to this one. Can they be friends?
I'm not friends with my mother. I personally think she is not such a good person. Having spoken to her in nearly three years. However, I find myself missing that companionship that only a daughter and mother can share. Moreover though is the fact that I simply cannot be friends with such a lousy person. I have a feeling that I'll never know that type of comfort and reassurance, that only a good mother and daughter friendship can provide. Another gray area for me, is the belief that we as children are suppose to respect our elders or parents. Remember the commandment, "Obey thy mother and father!" But how is that suppose to work, when your mother and father abandon you, hurt you physically and mentally, and left you to survive with the wolves? As a lover of Christ, I find it hard to forgive and forget. But I find it especially hard to obey this commandment. Am I suppose to ask his forgiveness the rest of my life, for her irresponsibility? I'd like to know. I find it terribly troubling at times. Thanks.
I believe the commandment is "honor thy mother and father" not obey. I think its sad that you and your mother haven't spoken in three years. As a Mom of three I hope that doesn't happen with me. And, not to criticize your relationship (or lack of) with your Mom, I just wonder on what you based your opinion of her. And, did you ever talk to her as an adult and find out where her mindset was when she did whatever she did to you? One of my biggest fears as a Mom who raised her three daughters single is that they won't ever understand why I made the decisions I did; and that those decisions weren't made to ruin their lives. I did my best with the resources I had at the time.
IntimateEvolution, the commandment is to honor your parents. As an adult, you need not necessarily obey them.
I think it is possible for a mother and daughter to be friends, so long as proper boundaries are maintained.
Hi IE, I can identify with your situation. I have found it releasing to consider that honoring one's parents, because they gave us life, is a respectful way to honor them. (and maybe the only way to honor them).
It is sad when we can't have that relationship with our parents. I have found similar relationships with others that were helpful and loving to provide me with "parental like" interpersonal caring and sharing. Ultimately, we have to "mature our soul" and become our own "internal parent", to feel at peace. Hope that makes some kind of sense to you.
As far as being friends with my mother...I can say that I do have a variety of friendships of varying degrees, and that she is a friend, but not one of my closest friends.
I consider my Mother my best friend. I can talk with her about anything and appreciate her advice and wisdom, and truly enjoy spending time with her. But believe me, it has taken years to get to this point in our relationship.
I think it possible when the daughter is mature of age and like Aya said with boundaries which includes respecting your elders. I found it hard with my own mom, but I did it to the end.
My mother and I became friends once I became an adult.
I saw it too, and didn't know what to do. Is it spam? Is it some woman in need who isn't real good at english? Due to her lack of ANY respone to all of this I have to say...spam....
but still, it is an interesting question. As a mother, your responsability is to first, be a mother. Can you "be friends"...get along? Of course. But your primary goal HAS to be.... to raise your child. To have them be responsable, well adjusted, adults. Ready to live on their own when its time, and sometimes, you will not be thier friend, but they WILL thank you when they get older.
I do wonder why she is not simply participating in the thread, if she really did want to talk about it. That part of it seems odd.
The situation she described was one of a "good daughter" -- sort of along the lines of Frieda Babbley's idea of disciplining the good child. The daughter didn't rebel, didn't good off. She was good at a academics, and did not date for a long time, by her own choice, not the mother's insistence. Then, when she was nineteen, already an adult, she did start dating, and the mother was disappointed that the daughter did not tell her about it. So it appears this was a child who set her own boundaries, did not get in trouble, but was not on intimate enough terms with the mother to share her experiences.
I know. I read it. I had something like that life, as the daughter. It actually struck a chord with me. Its why I didn't report it. Now, she is nowhere to be found..it stinks... You never know who to trust....like, some real people are out there, in pain and need help, and others know you know that and use it, and how do you know the difference?
No it definitely was not a kind of viagra spam LOL. Yet it was a kind of promotion that would kill the forums if not checked. I think the lady just got puzzled and overwhelmed with being called out on spamming, cause she honestly did not think she was doing it, hence the lack of follow-up on her side.
Viagra spam is funny. thanx to that I now know the "true meaning of love". I see what you mean, and I feel bad. Rules ARE needed.(mr. anarchy... ) I just hope she gets the support she needs, is all.
I got an email from the original poster. She says she sent one to everyone on this thread. It confirms my original feeling that she wasn't a true spammer. She may have broken the rules, but I think she did it unwittingly. She is not selling anything -- well, anymore than the rest of us are, anyway. It wasn't a ploy to lure us to a commercial site where we would buy something.
She wrote to me, too. The fact that she did not realize what she was doing, does not change the fact that she was breaking the rules.
Even if you don't sell anything, it is still spamming - or, if you prefer it better, being overly promotional. The reason for this rule is quite simple - if enough people start bragging on forums about their hubs, forums become unreadable. As easy as that.
Dawnette, I guess you will read this. Nobody holds anything against you, enjoy the site and we will enjoy your writings and insights, just follow the rules. They are in place not to get you, but to make the site enjoyable for everybody.
I have always been friends with my mom. Growing up there were not many kids my age to play with in the neighborhood, and then when a few moved there I did not have a lot in common with them. I always used to talk with my mom, and I like much of the same music she listens too. I first cultivated a love for the Moody Blues when my mom would play those records for me when I was little. Such good memories .
Sweetie Pie, that's great about you and your mom. Are you equally close with your dad? I used to be much closer with my father than my mother, growing up. But now my mother and I are on very good terms. I think it probably depends a lot on personalities and family dynamics, too.
My mother is pretty much my best friend as well, and always has been. A very good thing, too, since I was homeschooled and had to spend a lot more time with her than most kids!
I do think the amount of time we spent together had a lot to do with why we got along so well, though, even when I was a teenager. It also helped that we're very similar in a lot of ways, and different in ways that are compatible, not conflicting. Not that there weren't rough patches, but they were more just the general irritations of life, not serious differences of personality or opinion, even during my not-very-rebellious-teenage phase, and the same is true today.
I am not as close with my father just because I see him a lot less (he's a bit of a workaholic and is lucky enough to actually love his job) and he's also extremely laconic in general, so it's much harder to keep up a conversation with him, but I always had and still have a good relationship with him as well. He has a very calm, reassuring sort of personality - I can't imagine anybody not getting along with him, frankly.
Spam or not, its a good topic
I did not get along with my mother until I was older. We had just started a fairly good relationship when I was 17 - then she up and died right before I turned 18.
With that said, I made a solemn vow to myself that if I had a daughter our relationship would be good. I do have a daughter, she'll be 19 next month. We have a wonderful relationship. I'm a mom when I need to be a mom, a friend when I need to be a friend. Now, I'm a mom who is letting her daughter be free in college - make her own choices, have a great time & enjoy her new surroundings. I miss her, I miss talking to her, but find comfort that I (we) raised her to be independent of myself & my husband. She is loving her life, I couldn't ask for more
So, then, I guess part of the independence you are describing in your daughter is that she doesn't feel the need to confide in you about every experience?
No she doesn't feel the need to confide everything, but she does confide quite a bit. She is very open with us.
Absolutely. I would think the very word independence would explain that. As a mother, you want your child to tell you evey single little thing. You carried them for nine months, you birthed them. You stayed up for nights on end when they had ear infections. Your whole life revolved around them. As adult humans, they need to be able to live on thier own, and like it or not, they have a right...jsut like you do...to NOT tell you every single thing. I love my mother, she is my mother, and did the best she could. She is not a good example of a human, and I wll not go any further then that. I have 3 daughters, I hope to raise them to be responsable, loving, caring, independant adults. I want them to know I love them, they can come to me if they need to, they can solve problems on their own it they need too. I will not always agree with thier decisons, I will always support them. I will first and foremost be a mother. They will ahve friends besdies me.
I guess I am. I am not a saint, not a God, I can't see through the screen. I try as best as I can, and if it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, I pull the trigger...
Once again, how old is IntimatEvolution.
Mothers and daugthers can only be friends if the daughter wants the relationship.
The mother is always there, ready to reciprocate.
However, a mother, daughter relationship is more than a friendship.
well,i am good with my mum but sometimes i feel she is too judgmental!
She's simply a mum lawretta, she only wants what best for you. And unfortunately that means it's best for her as well.
Just give her a big hug, and ignore the rest.
Well, this might be the answer for the original poster. Her daughter grew up. Not sharing the information might just be a sign of maturity. It may not mean that anything is wrong.
in response to the question "can mothers and daughters be friends?" I am a mother to a 15 year old daughter. I find that at times, I think I am trying to make more of an effort to be her friend than her parent. Don't get me wrong, I consider myself to be a good mom as my daughter gets good grades in school, has a religious upbringing, and pretty much stays out of trouble. So in a sense, I know that I have at least done a decent job, lol. But, it is conflicting at times to try and have a relationship with a teen, especially a female one! I sometimes wonder when the pod-people are going to bring back my little girl:)
Just wanted to share some of my thoughts
I have good relations with my mother and can talk to her at any moment and to any topic. Our relations have always been good, but since I left to the capital to study at the university they became even better.
My mother and I have grown closer and I have come to respect her even if I don't agree with her, and I believe she has done the same. Actually the two of us are going out tonight to a biker bar and listening to a local band. This is a major thing, cause this is some of the music and friends that I like.
update to the mother and daughter night out. We went, she saw, she was very bored. But it was nice that she went with me, for it is honestly the first time my mother has ever gone somewhere of my choosing. She didn't like the music...lol. Metallica, ac/dc and so on..lol. But she did have a drink, and stayed for about one hr.
Sometimes they can be 120% friends when other friends are 100% percent friends.
Sometimes they have to be 100% mother and daughter.
Most of the time they're usually more like 80% friends but always with 20% mother/daughter.
I got another email from the original poster of this thread. She says she wants to post a comment but is not being allowed to.
She says that every time she hits quote/reply she gets this notice: "SORRY YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO MAKE A FORUM POST AT THIS TIME."
Maddie, can you help her? I don't think she's a spammer.
Speaking from the "mother side" of the equation, I am "incubating" a Hub on something like "understanding your mother", because since I've had grown kids I'm amazed at how little they understand "where I'm coming from". We're really close (thankful for that), and we get alone - but there's no doubt about it I think very differently from them in so many ways. What I'm always amazed at is their version of what I think. Now that they're grown, I can look back on what I didn't understand about how my own mother thought.
For me, life and being a mother was a piece of cake when my children were little (at least as it applied to them, not life in general). All was great. Even when they were teens it may have been scary, but there wasn't anything big as far as understanding each other went. Now that they're grown (youngest in college) I'm discovering this "you think...." kind of thinking they have (even if they're often too polite to really say it much of the time), and I'm amazed at how little they seem to really know me after all these years! I don't think any mother and kids could have a better relationship, but for me this is the sometimes the hardest stage of being a mother (and it has nothing to do with "losing my role as a mother"). It's pretty much about having people assume I think or feel something that I don't. (It also has to do with people not realizing that a lot of what I think isn't the result of "being stuck in old ways", but instead of "coming to my thinking as a result of experience". We mothers are still growing and finding our way each day, even when our kids are grown.
Lisa, I look forward to reading that hub. I wonder how much of the misunderstanding between you and your grown children might relate to risk aversion. A lot of times parents tell children not to do what they themselves did at that age. The reasoning is usually: Yes, I did that, but it was dangerous, and I want to pass along my hard earned experience. In some cases, it's experience they are trying to share. But in some ways, what has happened to them is that as they aged, they became less willing to take risks, because of a greater awareness of mortality. This is a function of our time in life. But it would not be good if the young had the same risk aversion as their elders, I think.
First, and foremost, I am her mother. Next comes the friendship. My daughter and I have an extremely open relationship whereupon she is comfortable and trusting enough to discuss any topic with me, at any hour, at any place. I count myself lucky to have this with her.
See my experience wasn't that way at all. My parents would have a cigarette in one hand, and my dad a beer in the other and telling us kids not to do it. Do as I say and not as I do. But that was hard for me personally. I mean I thought we learn through examples. But anyways, the other night I asked my mother if I could use her expensive perfume and I said mom, please tell me the truth, if it bothers u me asking to use or borrow something, because I don't want u to say a couple days down the road, u need to buy your own stuff and quit borrowing or using mine. Cause she has a knack of doing that. So I just lay it out there to her, this way she can't say that to me. And if she does, then it is on her head not mine. ps, I can't afford her "good" stuff and this perfume is "sweet"....lol
Aya, I don't really have misunderstandings with my kids; and they're at an age where risk aversion isn't part of the equation. That's the thing - when they grow up (provided you respect them as capable individuals) it's no longer about suggesting what they do or don't do, or your opinion about what they're doing. The "issues" are more "subtle".
For example, what I've discovered is that, while I knew "on an intellectual level" that a certain amount of "letting go" was right at 18, what really happened was I outwardly "let go" but inwardly kept battling with worries. Gradually, as the years between 18 and 25 passed, I realized that I just naturally got "better and better" when it came to "getting my mind off them" and worrying about them. It almost made me wonder if, in view of the fact that skeletons "finish" closer to 25, and since the brain is not finished maturing until early- to mid- twenties; Nature has designed mothers to just kind of naturally, gradually, be able to completely "let go" closer to when the son/daughter is 25 (which, on the one hand, may offer young people hope; but on the other, takes longer than young people prefer). It's hard to describe, because they all headed for school at 18; and I certainly was far from being a "helicopter parent". As I said, it was more of an inward thing for me to keep myself from worrying that something would happen to them. I worried more about 18-year-old than a 20-year-old, but, again, didn't just "knock it off" until they were close to 25. My two sons are both over 25, and I discovered that as they approached that age it was just natural to be able to say, "What they do is their business." With an 18/19-year-old, even though you see how grown-up/mature/intelligent they are, you still (or at least I couldn't) can't really just think, "What you do is your business."
So where the issue comes in would be if I acted like a big worrier to an 18-year-old (but was more than aware of how grown-up they were as well), that 18-year-old wouldn't know that I wouldn't be such a worrier (even if I tried to control it when it was bad) for the rest of my life. They wouldn't understand that in my head I knew they weren't ten years old; but that what my head knew and what my worrying heart went ahead and did were not the same things. Grown kids tend to assume that a mother who worries a little "thinks they're a child". Until you have grown kids you can't know how it feels to know someone is grown and yet still have to work your way to growing as a parent of grown kids as well. I don't think young people can realize how the parent of a "newly grown" son or daughter is always kind of muddling her way through and assessing her own actions/words in her new role as "parent of grown kids". I didn't muddle when they were young. I was sure of what I was doing. What I discovered is that when they get to be 16 or 18 or 20 you can suddenly find yourself muddling for the first time in your parenting life. (But, as I said, they then get to be 24/25, and you stop muddling quite so much.)
Can Mothers and daughters be friends?
i don't have a daughter. but i do have a son. and throughout his life, i have somehow managed to successfully function in the roles of parent, confidante, teacher, and friend.
i think the best way to be a friend to your child yet still be an authority figure is to listen to them and treat them with respect, and don't invade their privacy or push too hard.
I'm pretty sure I've managed to successfully function in those roles as well, but I have been surprised that just when you think you have the parenting thing down they get they get that much older and you're often faced with a little re-thinking, or else your own growth as a parent.
Lisa, but isn't that true in a sense at every stage? Just as you get the hang of taking care of a helpless infant, you have to learn to deal with someone who can sit up and crawl and then walk. Just as you're getting used to having an easy to manage toddler, rebellion sets in. Just as you get used to having your child always with you, they go off to school. It never stays the same. It's always changing...
Aya, you're right that it's true in one way when children are younger; but I think the difference is that when they're still children all those changes come under the same umbrella of "being a mother with young kids" (regardless of whether "young" is four or ten). Your role as a parent is clear, even if the issues change. When they grow up I think you're "launched" into a completely different role. On the one hand, you still feel the same about your kids in many ways. In other ways, you feel different and they feel (ARE) different; and - if you're normal - you know that a large portion of that role as "parent" is no longer part of the picture. This may be a simple (and silly) comparison; but if you had cats all your life, and over time became really "expert" at dealing with having cats; and then if you suddenly find yourself with a dog as a pet, it can in ways be similar but in ways require you to re-think how you'll do some things.
Back to human beings, I just think it's that complicated mix of still being a parent, not having a care-taking role, finding a new way to try to keep a family close even when nobody lives in the same place, and any number of new things that come along with being the parent of an adult, as compared to of a child. As Lita mentioned, grown kids often don't confide in a parent. Some people are closer to their parents than others, but even in a close relationship kids don't always confide in parents; so even if parents seem like friends (once people are grown), they still aren't like the grown kids' friends. Often, little kids don't question most of what parents think/do. Grown kids (particularly teens and early twenties) can often question everything parents are/do/think. It's all part of the maturation process, but convincing a four-year-old you know what you're talking about is pretty easy. Convincing a twenty-year-old you know what you're talking about - not so easy. Then there's stuff like stepping back and minding your business because you think they're grown, and you think you shouldn't put your two cents in; but someone may interpret that as your not being interested. People all level out once they get past their teens and early twenties, but in those years it can be very challenging for parents to keep the relationship strong while also letting go at the same time.
There are different kinds of relationships with different people within different families. I don't see any reason why a mother and daughter need to be the best of friends if it just isn't there.
My mother and I were always at odds. We are totally different people. She identified with the whole 'wife and mother' thing as primary...and me, not at all. And that's actually just the tip of the iceberg... I always had more of an affinity towards my father, who was the one, I guess when it comes down to it, who encouraged anything I wanted to pursue.
By this point, however, and actually even when I was a teenager, I don't/didn't make it a habit of confiding extremely personal things with my parents as confidantes. It simply is not their role to/with me, and I don't think I'd have it any differently if I could... And as I get older, the situations seems to have definitely reversed; I rather feel protective and parental, almost, towards them.
Lita, I agree. It depends very much on the mother and daughter as individuals, as well as the family dynamics. If the mother and daughter are not compatible, if they wouldn't have become friends had they been unrelated, there is no reason to expect them to be close friends just because they happen to belong to the same family.
My mother and I are friends, we get along great. We like to do things together like shop or just have a relaxing reading night. Well of course that was when I was living with them. But we still love to do things together whenever I get the chance to see her. I love my mom!
I am the original feeder for this comment and I really wanted to get in this forum and chat with all of you about how you held the bond with your mother's or daughter's, but I could not until today.
I want to say thank you for all your wonderful insights. I am going to build a bridge, because I want to get back to the way my daughter and I were.
I just got reinstated today, because there was a complaint about me spamming. Thank you Misha for clearing that up! Also thank you Aya Katz for being so diligent in me being reinstated
Archdaw, welcome back to the forums! Hope everything works out well for you and your daughter.
As a grandmother and mother I personally feel that during your daughter's life there will be times when you are friends and there will be other times when you have to take on the role of mother. As long as your child knows that you will always be there for them in whichever capacity they need in any particular situation. I have two daughters and most of the time we are best friends but there are occasions where I need to take a step back and become a parent - allowing them to make their own decisions and get on with their lives. I think the most important thing is realizing that there are two distinctive roles and knowing which cap to where in any given situation.
I think that as you get older and more mature the
relationship evolves more, and of course once the
child becomes a parent you realize that your mother
was not out to torture as you previously thought.
Like the saying goes, being a mother is the hardest
job in the world.
It may be the hardest job but it is also one of the most rewarding jobs. The one down side is you can hardly resign but then most of the time you don't want to anyway. I personally feel that you don't start building a friendship with your children when they are adults - it should start when they are very young and need someone to play with and share their day with and you never stop being that special friend. You build on that relationship and work at it every single day - it eventually becomes part of who you are and you reap the rewards. Mt daughters are the best friends I ever had or will have and I'm hoping that they will be fortunate enough to experience that very special and fulfilling relationship with their own daughters one day. The fact that my mother was one of my dearest and most precious friends is probably why I cherish my daughters and daughter-in-laws friendship so very much.
My mom and I didn't really become friends until I was an adult. Before that she was an alcoholic and it caused too many problems between us. Once she got off the booze we quickly became friends too.
It was the booze that was the wall between you and not the age gap. If she was not drinking when you were younger your relationship would have been entirely different I am sure. You can't make up for lost time but you can make the most of whatever time you have left. My mother passed away a year ago and I miss her like hell - I'm just very grateful for the friendship we had when I hear so many sad stories of mothers not only neglecting to be friends but neglecting to be mothers.
I never was a friend to my mother until I had children of my own. That's when reality kicked in and I started to see that she was only trying to protect me from the 'Evils of the world'. Sometimes I did not understand why she did the things she did, but I was able to learn that she did what she thought best at the time. I am still mending bridges between me and my mom, but I still have a long way to go with my daughter. I hope I can rebuild what we once had.
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