How long did your plunge last?

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IzzyMposted 13 years ago
After I plunged and lost 75% of my traffic, I kept a close eye on my keywords for signs of recovery.

Today, I fear, I am about to be slammed.

The few keywords I still had ranking have just disappeared. They've gone from page 1 or 2 to not being in the first 100.

Noticed also today and last night that bounce rate shot up from 75 - 80% to 95% so no doubt related.

My traffic is going to simply end in the next few hours.

The sad thing is, I am still ranking highly on other search engines, just not at all on Google.
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  CASE1WORKERposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It is so maddenning- especially as there is no viable explanation
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  Amanda Severnposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  
  I never made huge amounts of money here, but it was enough to keep me interested. Now my hubs are so far down the rankings that they might as well not exist. My previously best performing hub doesn't even show up if you key in chunks from the title, literally word for word.
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  IzzyMposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Check your hubs in here and I bet they are doing fine - http://duckduckgo.com/
  
  What's the matter with Google?
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  iQwestposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Today is the first day that I'm actually seeing any tangible life (relatively speaking as you read on!) out of organic search engine page views from Google.
  
  For 90 Hubs, I've actually received a whopping 9 organic search referrals from Google so far today.
  
  With that, this is already a record day for me considering that the largest amount of traffic sent to me from Google on any single day since September 21, 2011 was 7 organic search referrals (many days I had 0 - 3).
  
  During this time period, I added a couple of Hubs and have made virtually no changes to my existing Hubs.
  
  It's hard to fix something that you have no clue as to why it's broken.
  
  Yes, I'm frustrated, but I'm not packing my bags!
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  IzzyMposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  OMG and I thought I was doing badly!
  
  I still had a handful of hubs doing pretty well after the plunge. Each of them had lost about 60% or more of their traffic but they were still getting me some Google hits and Amazon sales.
  Now?
  Well my rolling 24 hours have already dropped by 200 since I made the post above about losing my keyword placements.
  Have you got another username account you can work on instead?
  I started a new one six weeks ago and may as well go back to it and ignore this one. It's not been slapped, but this account is dead in the water.
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  iQwestposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  No, you're doing quite well compared to my nightmare! It's frustrating, too, because I've found that my pages monetize better on HubPages than anywhere else. And, reaching payout usually only takes about 10,000 page views.
  
  I haven't started a new user account, but was going to. I'm concerned about putting too much effort into writing anything here because I have no idea as to why my account is being penalized.
  
  I can say, in looking in the rear-view mirror, that I probably have some Hubs that are too keyword dense, but didn't originally realize it when I started writing Hubs the first part of this year. Even if they are, why do I go through periods where traffic returns to normal without making any changes to my Hubs?
  
  The only other major change that impacted quite a few Hubs, was removing a lot of Amazon capsules, since I originally got booted from the Amazon CA affiliate program. In researching, it looks like Google doesn't like to see too much movement in your linking patterns.
  
  With that said, I'm glad your new account hasn't been slapped! We spend a lot of time doing what we do and it's not overly pleasant to see it all vanish overnight!
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  wildernessposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Have you moved any hubs to your new account? I think all of us would be very interested in hearing if such an action has produced anything.
  
  I have a small second account of sales hubs that overnight went from 10-15 views per day to zero. It stayed that way for several days and I figured Big G had slapped it and it wasn't worth keeping around any longer. Although 9 months old it just wasn't producing much anyway.
  
  Out of 18 hubs, I chose the three top performers and transferred them to my main account, which is doing well. Although only a month old (they were around 9 months old on the second account), one hub has 0 views today but the other two have a total of 38. That's double what I ever got out of 18 hubs on the second account.
  
  At this point I'm going the leave the rest of that second account alone. I'm concerned that I could end up damaging this account by filling it with sales hubs, particularly sales hubs that have never done much. I didn't figure that adding 3 sales hubs would hurt - about half my inventory is sales and I've recently written several non-sales hubs so the percentage didn't change.
  
  The result of the action for this account is that I've seen traffic increase around 20% this past week even while the spiders have returned to crawl me more often and those three hubs are doing better than they ever have. I'm sure it's not all related, but I would have though that if G didn't like the new stuff I would have suffered something by now.
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Randy Godwinposted 13 years ago
We are obviously getting penalized by Google for some reason. I still get some traffic from them on a few hubs, but others which formerly got hundreds of views through them now get almost nothing. We are at their mercy, unfortunately for us.
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  Stacie Lposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Randy,I have been promoting on social sites and other search engines to get some traffic. it works but it's time consuming. G is not giving me any love but other sites have me on the first page...
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I get better ranking with other sites too, but without having to promote at all. Sorry, but some of the trash I see highly ranked by the big G doesn't give me any confidence in their ability to sort out the good from the bad.
  
  I personally feel they have replaced those who were paid high click rates formerly with those who are now happy to be paid less than G paid the previous high ranked articles. Otherwise, why did their quarterly earnings soar through the roof? Where did the extra money come from unless they were paying less for putting ads on content while charging the same rate to those whose ads G displays?
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  SirDentposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You may be onto something here. After all it is about making money isn't it? Google I mean.
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  michifusposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  google is deciding how much to pay you per click. You look at the average click costs for a keyword, and what they pay you for them and there is a massive difference. So, with a keyword that gets an average of lets say a dollar, they pay me 10 cents, what do they then charge the advertiser? there is colossal room for skimming
  
  My monthly clicks go up, my income stays the same. Google gets the extra. Google caps my earnings, no question about it.
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  ThomasEposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It doesn't quite work out that way. The prices they quote on the keyword tool are for the google search network. Basically, the adds that show when you type "google.co.uk" and do a search.
  
  We are on the google content network. As a rule of thumb, adwords charges 1/3 or less for clicks on the content network than the search network.
  
  The basic reason for this is the quality of the clicks is so much lower (it converts much worse - search traffic is the most valuable form of traffic because it has a huge conversion rate.)
  
  But, when you find a keyword price quoted, the actual amount charges for a click on a site other than google.com is much lower.
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  michifusposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It was a day when everything was going wrong. Hence the conspiracy theory. thanks for the clarification
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  Isabel Melvilleposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You are definitely on to something there. It will explain why, even post-plunge when I had higher traffic than say 14 months ago when I had only a fraction of the hubs I have now (on my main account), I earned more per click.
  
  Now, I'm back to a dollar a day or less in total.
  
  Something stinks.
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Isabel Melvilleposted 13 years ago
Hello, this is me on my second account and I have just re-written a Halloween hub that I had written months ago on my main account but is nowhere to be seen, while all the unslapped accounts are riding high with the same keywords on hubs only written recently, so we'll see.
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  wildernessposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Good! Now if you would just do 3 or 4 more, fast forward 6 months, look at how they are doing and and then come back and let us all know...
  
  Your post here is something I never did with my failed second account - I only used it once in the forums (by mistake) and have often wondered if that was one of the reasons it performed so dismally. Yes, they were all sales hubs but even so the traffic just wasn't there.
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  Isabel Melvilleposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I was just dying to come on the forums and post newbie questions like "why is my hubscore so low?" and "how can I get more views?" etc, but from the word go I have said who I am so couldn't really. lol
  
  It's funny having a new account again - if any hub gets more than 2 views, you feel like you have won a watch! I'm all excited because one of mine has 6 views! 6 Google views too! Hardly successful, is it? But it feels as if it is.
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  wildernessposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You better not! I've seen that avatar around too much to think it isn't you, you scoundrel, you. The name I might miss, but not the avatar.
  
  Actually, it is successful Izzy. We all know what it means to start out and how slow it goes.
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  FloraBreenRobisonposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  after only 4 months on hubpages, I don't get many google views or other search views either. Don't expect to, either, until I have well over 100 hubs.
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  wildernessposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  With 67 hubs and 4 months in, you should be getting some organic traffic. If you're just not getting any (10 or 20 per day) you might want to have a look at where you are on the SE and if there are any searches for your keywords.
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  IzzyMposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  They used to say you need to have over 100 hubs to start seeing serious traffic, but what they really meant to say was, it can take you a 100 hubs to learn how to SEO.
  Obviously, I have not yet learnt very well either, or my new account would not have so few views!
  
  If anything, it is more important now than ever to learn how to write your hubs using the most searched for phrases.
  
  I have a hub originally called Breastfeeding Twins.
  
  It is now called How to Breastfeed Twins because that is what people search for.
  
  It didn't start getting any traffic until I learnt this and changed the title. But it can never be fully optimized for the search engines because the url has the original title which less people search for.
  
  Little things like this can make a huge difference to your traffic.
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seamistposted 13 years ago
Is anyone else starting to see a pattern to their plunges? I think I am. On 9-6 my account plunged from 1000/day to less than 200/day. On Monday, 9-26, I started surging again up to almost 1500/day. That lasted four days, and on Friday, 9-30, over a 24-hour period, I plunged back down to less than 200/day. That lasted one week. On Monday, 10-10, I surged up to almost 1700/day. Now on Friday, it is gradually plunging back down. In pre-Panda days, my account always went down on the weekends but never to the extent it has been the past month.
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  wordscribe43posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Interesting... My third plunge started 9/26 (when your surge started) and I'm still in it. Were you one of the original 8/10 plungers like myself?
  
  I'm not seeing any patterns, per se, other than that my plunges last longer than the surges. I'm beginning to think I'm never going to get out of this current one, though.
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  seamistposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hi Wordscribe
  
  No I wasn't one of the original plungers. My first plunge except for the long post-Panda plunge started on 9-6.
  
  I know it's frustrating. My personal website has had nil traffic from Google for almost a month now.
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  wordscribe43posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Ugh I'm so sorry about your personal website being hit. One of mine is doing fine, but the other is suffering. It is such a tumultuous time, isn't it? At times it's motivating for me, you know that stubborn streak of mine that says" Well, I'll show THEM!." But, the motivation fades as quickly as it comes since it all just seems so futile.
  
  Like Izzy, I have another profile I'm working on here. It's actually older than my wordscribe account, but it's been relatively inactive. I'm trying out a niche to see if the big G prefers that to a mish mash of topics.
  
  On my wordscribe account, it seems Google "likes" or finds me to be well-versed on a couple of niches. So, those hubs that pertain to those 2 niches have remained relatively stable. It got me to thinking perhaps I should hunker down a bit on my topics. BTW, this is all conjecture as I know there are plenty of hubbers who write about a wide range of topics and are not being penalized. So, who knows? But, if I even sense of inkling of a way out of this debacle, I'm willing to try, right?
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  seamistposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I wish you all in the luck in the world. As for me, I am thinking about getting out of this. Even if I could make a nice part-time income eventually; it's just to unstable.
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SirDentposted 13 years ago
I am wondering what might happen if I unpublish most of my hubs and keep the top 20 or so up. I have also started another account but I do not want to move my top hubs if I can keep from it.
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  CASE1WORKERposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I have set a time deadline of six months, after that if no improvement I am for the chop! My new accounts are specific- the first one is history only, just history and there will be more, unless of course I bounce back! One can hope I suppose
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  IzzyMposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Careful here, Sir Dent.
  
  Before you unpublish anything, make sure it hasn't been copied.
  
  I am not even going down this road because so much of mine has been - and the scammers are outranking my hubs!
  
  Shame on you Google!
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  SirDentposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  No one likes to copy bible studies. Even though they are unpublished, they are time stamped still.
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Silver Roseposted 13 years ago
There are reports that there was another Panda update on 13th Sept
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  IzzyMposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Really? I'm off to Google to see.
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  Silver Roseposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Here's the tweet about it
  
  http://twitter.com/#!/mattcutts/status/ … 9748559872
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  IzzyMposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks, fits I suppose.
  I found one forum talking about it and many sites that had been building their rank back up after Panda have been hit again.
  Oh well, it's an update that is finishing me off.
  Am I the only hubber with over 500 hubs that has been decimated - again, and this time worse than before?
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  theherbivorehippiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I just had everything take one giant nose dive since yesterday morning. My best websites that have been showing me so much love literally just bottomed out in traffic and we won't even talk about Hubpages. All I can say is I have a solid row of blue arrows. First time I've been hit this hard. It hurts.
  
  P.S. Izzy...I LOVE this profile picture!
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  IzzyMposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I am sorry you've been hit, and yes it hurts, it really does.
  
  On a separate note, my avatar is apparently a Moshi monster and they seem to be going through a turbulent time at the moment.
  
  They were about to release a single called The Moshi Dance with some great song titles like "my stroller's pretty and my diapers are silk, I throw my toys out if I don't get my milk" and "my crazy outfits seem to shock". Aimed at kids, but might well have got a few adults (like me) on board too.
  
  But one of the Moshi monster characters is named Lady Goo Goo, a baby Moshi obviously, and LADY GA GA has brought out an injunction against the song!
  
  Can you beleieve it, full story here - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-15307052
  
  I'd write a hub about it, but what's the point if no-one reads it.
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  theherbivorehippiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  lol...oh my gosh..SO funny. I WILL read your hub if you write it.
  
  Dang...I really was just checking to see if Hubpages was still here this morning. I opened Adsense and thought maybe the site disappeared. My hottest hub that was averaging no less than 250 visits a day for the past couple weeks is at....um....8. yes, 8. AND my favorite website...NO visits today and it is typically a strong weekend site.
  
  It's like I'm totally invisible? Can you even see this? Am I showing up.
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  IzzyMposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  We see you! The other search engines see you - put your keywords in here to check, bet you rank highly - http://duckduckgo.com - its just Google.
  
  Stupid name for a search engine anyway!!
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  theherbivorehippiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  OH wow...I like duckduckgo! I think I will give much love to this search engine. Stupid Google. Funny how my blogger blogs that are OLD as dirt and I have done nothing with...NOTHING in about a year are seeing traffic. Really? If I had time I'd move everything to Blogger right now but I don't have time so I will have to just throw a temper tantrum and pout for now I guess.
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  IzzyMposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I just found duckduckgo a week or 2 ago, and I think it is an amazing search engine - so simple, neat and fast and they give great results every time!
  
  I found it mentioned in a techy forum somewhere - other people were raving about it.
  
  Yes it would seem that Google are favoring their own sites, plus well-known brand name sites. It seems Panda 2.5 demolished ehow. Not saying that's a bad thing, but ehow was useful for people wanting a quick overview of things.
  
  I think we should all promote duckduckgo until Google is beaten into the ground.
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  cardeleanposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Wow, I just did a key word search for my top 3 hubs using duckduckgo and it was within the top ten if not the first for each. Definitely will be using and sharing this search engine. Thanks.
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  xmasdecorationsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  YouTube was the biggest winner from 2.5, surprise surprise.
  
  It does seem like anything floated on Wall Street is a winner in these updates, whilst they see every $1 earned by every other site to be $1 that could be on wall street balance sheets.
  
  Unfortunately the same people who invest in Google will be the same people who invest in the likes of AOL (owners of Demand Studios), and News Corp (owners of plenty of big news sites), and Amazon, etc.
  
  One big happy profit sharing family
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  theherbivorehippiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Agree! I'll be using it! I think I'm going to tweet it right now too.
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toygurusposted 13 years ago
This Panda algorithm is very horrible for many legitimate companies, but it seems to be making google a lot of money given their stellar 3rd quarter. Spammers are scraping legitimate content from sites or pages that are pandalized and posting it on their own websites for gain. Panda works by computing a couple of things algorithmically. If these conditions are met your website or subdomain is placed in google purgatory. It's already been seen that the algorithm develops false positives. It has very little to do with the content on the page. Spammers can take that same content and rank it.

Read the full article here
http://www.searchenginejournal.com/scra … ate/34192/
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  Aficionadaposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I posted this article on Google-Plus, and I gave it the +1. I will do everything I can think of to let Google know how I feel about them.
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  IzzyMposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  That was a really interesting article, thanks
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  cameciobposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I'm thinking to scrape my own hubpages...
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I'm thinking I may "scrap" mine.
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  toygurusposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  If your account at hubpages has been put in the panda box, I'm sure it will rank elsewhere or even on hubpages under a new account but we don't know what is causing our accounts to trip the google filter so even that is a risk. I really hope that google puts the panda back in its cage soon.
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  cameciobposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  The thing is Google doesnt have any right to play with people's work, security and whatsoever. It's about everybody...I plunged on9/6, never recovered. It should be a law that forces Google to make public the intention of any change that may affect other people's properties on the web. They don't own the web. they are part of it like any of us.
  Google Panda is for the web what an economic crisis is in real life (except that the web is real life too).
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  seamistposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  @ toygurus
  
  Unfortunately, I don't think we ever will find out what is triggering the filter or whys behind the devestation. It seems like the only the only people that care are the ones that are plunging. HP must be doing well overall or you would think they would be more concerned. Obviously, they are not concerned or they would be giving suggestions or at least support.
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  They don't know.
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  seamistposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I'm not so sure about that. If I owned this type of business, and good writers were plunging without obvious reasons, I would be scared it would eventually happen to the whole site. Even if I didn't know the reasons, I would be concerned about the plunging morale. I'm sure newbies also read these posts, and they have to be wondering whether this site is worth it. When I first started here, even without the Panda problems, it really frustrated me how long it took to take any money. If I hadn't been so naive at the time, I wouldn't have stayed.
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Well, I was being semi-serious with that post. I understand your frustration, believe me. I slowly built up my article base with the satisfaction of seeing my earnings also rise steadily with the traffic.
  
  But I've come to realize there is no security in any online endeavor as long as the majority of internet searches are controlled by Google. They can wipe out all of one's work overnight with no explanations other than "the bots did it."
  
  And we all know the reason HubPages was hit the first time, even though staff didn't mention much about their part in it, such as allowing the many misleading, high trafficked hubs we discovered later on.
  
  So no, never trust any content site staff person completely.
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  seamistposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I agree with you, Randy. When I first started writing here, I was desperate financially so I stayed with it and kept plugging away. Then even after you realize making money online is no easy row to how, I felt like I had to much invested to just walk away. However, Panda and all this plunging is giving me a different outlook. Just early today I was thinking even if I could start making a nice income at this, do I really want my earnings subject to this kind of instability. I hate to be a quitter, but I don't want to spin my wheels either with nothing to show for it. Heck, I don't know what the answer is.
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  There are alternatives and that's what I'm looking into now. I don't depend on my writing for my living but I did feel I earned the money I received for my highest trafficked hubs.
  
  I don't feel good about the new move to control most of the earnings through HubPages as being paid by companies separate from them made the stats more trustworthy to me. I've had previous experience with content sites before. Nuff sed!
  
  E-books and having your own site is always a choice, but then, Google has a say in those too. Very depressing for some of us at this point.
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  seamistposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I don't know whether e-books are an answer or not. I did think a website pushing Amazon products might be the answer, but Google plays the same games with them. I started new about the same time Panda first came out. At first I didn't get much traffic, but I thought I hadn't written enough content or backlinked yet. I'd still make a few sales every month. In Sept. I really started seeing some progress, but after a few weeks, Google shut the faucet off on the traffic flow. For almost a month now, it has been zilch Google traffic with a few Yahoo and Bing searches. Consequently, I haven't made a sale at all. You were right earlier...as long as Google is controlling the traffic we are SOL.
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  IzzyMposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I LOVE this idea!! Brilliant! Should probably put it on Blogger as they are not being hit. Or several platforms, then you could dominate the front page with scraped copies of your own hub.
  
  All these results here could have been mine!!
  
  http://www.google.co.uk/search?gcx=w&am … mp;bih=775
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  EmpressFelicityposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It's reading things like this that make me laugh maniacally when I hear that Panda was all about "improving quality".
  
  If it really was all about "improving quality", then surely this kind of stuff wouldn't still be happening over six months after the first incarnation of Panda?
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Richieb799posted 13 years ago
I had a massive rise in traffic at the beginning of the week with 1,500 views to my best hub..although it has dropped back to around 1,000 a day again now. I think it was other search engines besides Google.

What I am concerned about is planning for January when I think we might suffer a loss in earnings again..Izzy, what was your experience in January and February this year..people were saying it was due to advertisers paying less but I loss about a quarter of my earnings in those months before Panda struck.

Now I'm back to normal like I was before those months.
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  IzzyMposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  My January/February earnings were fine. True, there was a slight dip in Amazon sales due to Christmas being over, but I started the year really optimistic that Hubpages could deliver a bright future.
  
  Sad thing is, even after Panda, I was still earning more than I am now.
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SirDentposted 13 years ago
Just another thought. Right before I plunged I noticed a small amount of traffic coming from Mobile devices. I read a headline earlier about how the mobile companies are pleased with the advances made by Google.

I am fairly positive that HP has a mobile app already in place, but I am not positive about that.
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I think we have several different types plunges, Dent. I had a steady increase in my hubs and earnings until August 10th. No spikes, no dips, just an overnight drop in Google traffic to all of my hubs. No spikes or dips since then either.
  
  Others have had sudden spikes shortly after the sub-domain change or drops and then more spikes. Those with more than one Hub account have one plunge and the others unaffected. Like someone else mentioned earlier, people who have worked hard and stayed within the rules are suddenly kicked back to the beginning.
  
  But Google has the power to do this with no worries of retribution nor the real live people their actions affect. Money talks and bulls**t walks.
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Susana Sposted 13 years ago
Urrgh...on a new plunge as of the last few hours. 50% traffic loss so far. And there was me thinking I might have a good Christmas....Oh fool me
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  kirstenblogposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Me too! I noticed it yesterday and toady, my best hub which got over 100 hits a day, down to 3!!!
  Initial panda, it dropped to like 60 average before climbing back up. This is almost all it's traffic tho, thinking the climb back up is going to take some patience
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Rik Ravadoposted 13 years ago
My rik ravado account is OK but my secondary account has plunged from 700 to 162 daily views in the 12-24 hours. If this is a true plunge (and not the weekend dip) then its the first I've experienced. Scary!
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Rik Ravadoposted 13 years ago
My secondary account is still sinking - now down from 700 - 143 in 12 hours.
Here is yet another reason to have more than one subdomain acount!
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  ThomasEposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It is very likely this is a real plunge, since Panda was run again yesterday.
  
  It's surprising, though, because the normal signs weren't there for me... the slower indexing... which suggests we're going to get Panda updates more frequently.
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  xmasdecorationsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  This plunge has coincided with this change: http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/84621
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  IzzyMposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Nothing to do with Hubads. It's an algo change again.
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  xmasdecorationsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Ad-to-content ratio was widely considered to play a huge part in all of the Panda updates, so increasing ad-to-content ratio the day before a panda update could have played a larger role than you think. If in doubt:
  
  http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy-ab&a … mp;bih=665
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  IzzyMposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  IF, and that's a big IF, ads were to blame, why isn't everybody hit, why just some of us?
  We have no control over ad layout.
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  xmasdecorationsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Who hasn't been hit?
  
  To answer though:
  
  1) It's a ratio, your ratio is unique to you, our subdomains aren't all identical.
  
  2) Not everybody uses hubads.
  
  It may not be the ad layout, but why change anything two weeks into Q4? It irks.
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  ThomasEposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, that was one of the theories early on, but it doesn't seem to be correct.
  
  Right at the moment, my own personal theories about what causes this are that in Feb of this year, Google launched symantic web user profiling.
  
  I think that google has got to the stage, with chrome, that they can profile users, and monitor what they are googling for, and what sites they visit. They can also analyze what people are trying to find.
  
  My hypothesis is that, using this technique, they are profiling website visitors, trying to find experts and special interest users in particular niches.
  
  They then analyze how these special interest users behave. If there are particular sites "power" users go to for particular types of information, then these sites get a boost in the search index for that information.
  
  Just my personal hypothesis.
  
  it goes along with how capricious these results are. I've yet to find many people who can use commonly available SEO data to predict who will be affected. So, it goes to reason that the thing that predicts it is uncommonly available SEO data. And one thing google has more of than anyone else is user data, tracing where people have gone on the web over the last decade.
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  xmasdecorationsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It still is considered a ranking factor:
  
  http://searchenginewatch.com/article/21 … tors-Study
  
  http://www.searchnewz.com/topstory/news … kings.html
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  ThomasEposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  There are many hundreds of ranking factors. I am sure ad placement has an impact, but my personal feeling is that Panda is a much bigger change than that.
  
  I think it is a fundamental change in how google works.
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  xmasdecorationsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hubpages is listed as one of the biggest winners of Panda 2.5, so I guess the joke really is on me and the other losers.
  
  If Panda 2.5 was launched at the start of this month, being active between 27th September - 3rd or 4th October, then why are you blaming the traffic decline of the past few days on a Panda update which happened almost two weeks ago?
  
  Hubpages was listed as a Panda 2.5 winner:
  
  http://www.searchnewz.com/topstory/news … nda25.html
  
  That's from the 3rd October. How does a big traffic decline between 12th to 15th in October relate to a Panda update which simply isn't happening? Or are you claiming a Panda 2.5.1 which no SEO blog or media outlet is reporting?
  
  If it isn't Panda then what is it? So far, nobody has offered a better theory than my own, which relates to changes in the ad-ratio, a major ranking factor which can effect rankings without a Panda update.
  
  Ad layouts changed 11th October, traffic starts declining 12th October, what other theories do you have other than that affected subdomains are somehow miraculously experiencing Panda two weeks after everybody else?
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  ThomasEposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Because Matt Cutts tweeted today that another panda update was rolled out yesterday.
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  xmasdecorationsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Is anybody on HP claiming to be unaffected by the update? Or has this only hit a small number of people? I realise that few people are claiming to be victims, but who has announced themselves are unaffected?
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  ThomasEposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Doesn't normally happen that way. Normally, people come on the forums if they notice a big change.
  
  Personally, in my case, I have been affected marginally positively, with my (very) minor recovery on this account, and little effect elsewhere.
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  IzzyMposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Am I missing something?
  
  October 13th - Panda 2.6
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  xmasdecorationsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I must be missing something, or the whole world has, search for 'Panda 2.6' in Google news, good luck finding something.
  
  The update yesterday was considered 'minor' by Matt Cutts and seeing as there is NO media coverage, it must have been.
  
  Thanks for the laugh though, when Panda 2.6 actually does happen, I'll credit you with predicting it.
  
  I'll predict Panda 2.7, look out for that one.
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  ThomasEposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Mostly, it takes a few weeks for the media to catch up.
  
  The SEO forums, including several private ones I am on, are awash with the news.
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  michifusposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  one site hit slightly from 1st to 3rd on october 12th, and it has been stable for at least 8 months previously at top spot
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  xmasdecorationsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I'm almost in hysterics, not because I don't believe that there has been a very minor Panda update, but because you and IzzyM are labeling this as Panda 2.6.
  
  If every Panda tweak was handed a new number we would be on Panda 7.3 or something by now.
  
  This is a trivial shift in rankings which has its victims like any other, but it has affected so few people that it hasn't even warranted a thread any longer than one page long on webmasterworld: http://www.webmasterworld.com/google/4374667.htm
  
  And you somehow think that this news is going to be picked up by media outlets? And that it takes a few weeks for the media to report on a Panda update when they actually do happen?
  
  The media picked up Panda 2.5 in about an hour last time, they haven't picked up Panda 2.6 because there is no such thing.
  
  This is Panda 2.5.1.1.
  
  It has affected a lot of hubpages accounts, but very few of their private web properties. This leads me to believe that either:
  
  a) Hubpages has been targeted because Google didn't like seeing it in the winners list.
  
  or
  
  b) The changes to the ad layout have tripped the latest Panda run.
  
  There can be no other logical explanation as to why so many HP accounts have lost traffic, we will begin to see the changes on Quantcast over the next few hours.
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  ThomasEposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  "I'm almost in hysterics, not because I don't believe that there has been a very minor Panda update, but because you and IzzyM are labeling this as Panda 2.6."
  
  Except that, if you actually bothered to read my posts, you would note I have never in all my time on this site or any other, ever, labeled this update by a numerical description.
  
  I don't think it is helpful.
  
  It is functionally irrelevant.
  
  "If every Panda tweak was handed a new number we would be on Panda 7.3 or something by now."
  
  I really don't think it works like that. I think the panda algorithm is separate to the normal ranking algorithm,. I think it is a filter that is run on a very intermittent occasions.
  
  I think the concept of algorithm tweaks is something of a red herring. It may be possible that no algorithm change has been made at all. Just that the algorithm has been run again.
  
  "This is a trivial shift in rankings which has its victims like any other, but it has affected so few people that it hasn't even warranted a thread any longer than one page long on webmasterworld: http://www.webmasterworld.com/google/4374667.htm"
  
  Sigh. Most of the people on webmaster world that have been affected by Panda are well and truly gone. At least openly, none of the members who posted immediately after Panda have recovered.
  
  Some few did recover temporarily... but subsequent panda updates have hammered those few that did recover.
  
  "
  And you somehow think that this news is going to be picked up by media outlets? And that it takes a few weeks for the media to report on a Panda update when they actually do happen?
  
  The media picked up Panda 2.5 in about an hour last time, they haven't picked up Panda 2.6 because there is no such thing.
  
  This is Panda 2.5.1.1.
  
  It has affected a lot of hubpages accounts, but very few of their private web properties. This leads me to believe that either:
  
  a) Hubpages has been targeted because Google didn't like seeing it in the winners list.
  
  or
  
  b) The changes to the ad layout have tripped the latest Panda run.
  
  There can be no other logical explanation as to why so many HP accounts have lost traffic, we will begin to see the changes on Quantcast over the next few hours."
  
  We'll see.
  
  I don't think Google would run the panda algorithm just to get hubpages. If google wants to demolish hubpages it can do so without the expense of changing its algorithm.
  
  My approach to this was pretty clear out of the box. My belief was that my accounts, which were admittedly pretty spammy, were DoA, and could not be recovered. I decided that by March. Nothing I've seen so far has dissuaded me from that opinion.
  
  My own choice was to pretty much abandon hubpages and do something different.
  
  Maybe that is a defeatist attitude, but so what?
  
  let me make this clear, I don't really care whether this iteration of Panda is a big update, or a little update, because Google could wipe me out with an update the size of a gnat, it doesn't make much difference to me,
  
  What matters to me is whether I can make money on hubpages.
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  xmasdecorationsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  "I think the concept of algorithm tweaks is something of a red herring. It may be possible that no algorithm change has been made at all. Just that the algorithm has been run again."
  
  Exactly, and that is precisely my point. If Panda has been run again, then what is different this time around for HP? The only thing that I can think of is the ad to content ratio, unless they have changed the algorithm to effect HP in a way that 2.5 did not. To be more specific, to treat subdomains differently than it did last time.
  
  "Sigh. Most of the people on webmaster world that have been affected by Panda are well and truly gone. At least openly, none of the members who posted immediately after Panda have recovered."
  
  I can't think of a single major website to actually close its doors after Panda, can you?
  
  "My own choice was to pretty much abandon hubpages and do something different. Maybe that is a defeatist attitude, but so what?"
  
  That was also my choice, and the choice of many. Plenty of people with wide portfolios of EMD's have reported big gains today, e.g. bestviagraforstuds.com etc.
  
  "My belief was that my accounts, which were admittedly pretty spammy, were DoA, and could not be recovered."
  
  My Wordpress sites are admittedly extremely spammy and half of them are doing fantastically, some saw major gains today.
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  ThomasEposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  "The only thing that I can think of is the ad to content ratio, unless they have changed the algorithm to effect HP in a way that 2.5 did not. "
  
  I think you can spam away on small wordpress domains as much as you want. I was talking about hubpage accounts.
  
  My philosophy with Google is never to be too large or noticeable. Unfortunately, hubpages became that, and got cut down.
  
  It will probably work out like Squidoo... in a few years, Google will move onto another target, but at the moment hubpage has a big red cross on it, and anyone who spams on it is a target.
  
  From what I can see, a cursory look at the google research shows that some basics still apply, and you can still game the algorithm, but not here.
  
  Not for a while.
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  xmasdecorationsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  In that case I agree with you completely, yes Google are targeting sites such as Hubpages, that much is obvious and always has been.
  
  My saving grace is the 30 Kindle books that I have on the market, ready for the Kindle Fire to get released, how did you get on with your Kindle book in the end ThomasE?
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  ThomasEposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I've written 300,000 words of fiction this year, (if you are who i think you are, you'll know roughly when I started), and am slowly starting to gain traction.
  
  I went the semi-traditional route, though, sending a lot of the stories / articles out to traditional market first, before self publishing them. Not sure whether this was a good move / bad move, it was more a gamble than anything else. A single sale to ellery queen is free advertising to 250,000 people. So, worth learning the traditional market - although it is a slow process compared to ebooks.
  
  IMHO, a single sale to a magazine like that can eventually make you tens of thousands of dollars.
  
  Like anything else, though, it takes a lot of time to get good at it. I haven't got as many books out as you, although I am gaining speed.
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  xmasdecorationsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  That's because I don't (or can't) write fiction
  
  I'm hoping for huge sales on Kindle in November, all the way through to February, of my stuff.
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  ThomasEposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hey, I didn't claim I could write fiction earlier.
  
  I'm just trying to learn.
  
  I hope you do well in Kindle land. Just don't forget to put stuff on smashwords as well. It is a pain, and at first it doesn't look like you are earning stuff for months, because it takes 6 months for all the sales data to come back.
  
  But, from the people I've talked to, many of them sell as many copies via Smashwords as they do via kindle...
  
  Either way, the recent sales data is staggering, isn't it? Ebooks sell as many copies now as hardback books. There is far more money to be made at it than there ever was on hubpages. Far more.
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  xmasdecorationsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Digital books actually outsell physical books on Amazon.com
  
  With a little over 1 million digital books outselling 18 million print books on that site, it really shows how big the market is.
  
  I'm hoping that sales which follow the Kindle Fire release will help make up for the money that I look to be losing from HP.
  
  Haven't forgotten about smashwords, but suspect I won't get around to converting them all to their format for a while yet.
  
  You have to be wary about pricing though, make sure your prices on both sites are the SAME, otherwise the major retailers will adjust pricing accordingly.
  
  If you list for $2.99 on Amazon and $1.99 on smashwords, Amazon will adjust the price of your book to $1.99 too, I'm sure it would work the other way too, with Barnes & Noble adjusting to match Kindle.
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  IzzyMposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I found loads of stuff on it last night - mostly not front page news but there you are.
  An interesting thing to note when I search for my own dropped keywords, is that once again we have the big sites taking up multiple positions in the SERPS.
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  xmasdecorationsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  There can be no doubt whatsoever that the objective of these updates have been to favor Google owned properties, as well as other web properties owned by floated corporations, every $1 that a small independent makes is seen as $1 that could be on Wall Street balance sheets.
  
  Hubpages would not have recovered without the switch to the subdomain model, and now those subdomains are being targeted. Either Google have changed something which would have affected HP accounts, or HP has changed something which has always played a significant part in the Panda algorithm.
  
  I still can't discount the idea that an increasing ad to content ratio, and the use of javascript on our pages, could have tripped the Panda and would have tripped Panda 2.5 had it have been in place at the time.
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  IzzyMposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I've been hit again. My plunged account has been stamped on. How lucky can I get?
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  Bendo13posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I'm still stuck in the sandbox... want to make a castle with me?
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cardeleanposted 13 years ago
I've been following this thread even though the plunges had not really affected me. I had a slight dip in Aug and then Sept but then went way up through Sept and Oct. Very steady increases to three-five times the amount of views I was receiving in July (mind you I wasn't receiving a lot at that time). The increase was encouraging and I was finally starting to see a little money being earned. Yesterday I saw my views plunge to a third of what they had been. I went from my best earnings day on Thursday to almost no views on Friday. The latest Panda update has hit me. I can only hope that it is temporary but until then, I'm floating (or sinking) in the boat with the rest of you.
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  leahleflerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Cardelean, I'm glad you posted this because I was in the same boat - a slight dip in August, but then continuously rising traffic. Until yesterday. I am at about a third of my "normal" traffic, so the latest Panda has hit me, too.
  
  At least we have lots of company on this sinking ship!
  
  I hope the traffic recovers soon.
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  Just Historyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Cardelean and leahlefler, welcome on board, join the party- it is a bit dismal though
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  CASE1WORKERposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Whoops wrote this on the wrong account- this two account business is hard
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  cardeleanposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  LOL, thanks but I didn't receive an invitation and definitely didn't RSVP!
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  IzzyMposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Brilliant new username for your history hubs! Good luck
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seamistposted 13 years ago
Everytime I read about somebody else's plunges and watch my own, it makes me angry, and yet, HP remains so silent. For an analogy, it makes me wonder how long HP is going to leave their wounded on the battlefield without any help.
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  xmasdecorationsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  And what time is it in San Francisco?
  
  Unfortunately I can't see a way out of this one, unless it was the ad-layout changes which have tripped Panda.
  
  Those who doubt that the ad layout could have tripped Panda SHOULD be hoping that it was, because the alternative really isn't very pretty.
  
  ThomasE, I've spoken to 12 hubbers and all are reporting 20% - 40% traffic losses. This isn't an isolated incident, this is a wholesale assault.
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  seamistposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It doesn't matter what time it is in SF right now. This post has been popular for 13 days now. They've had 13 days to respond with a boo or something. I agree with you about one thing. Many of these plunges are not due to Panda unless Panda is going on once a week or more.
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  xmasdecorationsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  The Panda update which occurred a couple of weeks ago had a very positive outcome for Hubpages, this one seems to have a very negative outcome. What has happened over the past 24 hours, the wholesale decline of established accounts, is much different from a bit of Google dancing.
  
  Prior to a day or two ago, any plunges would have been nothing other than a bit of a Google dance, if you had your own sites you would have known that this is normal, often unexplained, and never really a significant problem.
  
  A massive decline in traffic sitewide on the other hand, that is a huge problem, I hope they deal with this one better than they did the last one in February where their lack of communication and rash actions alienated a lot of writers.
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  seamistposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It's not just the last 24 hours I'm talking about. My account is starting to show a pattern now. I don't want to bore hubbers with the stats again. Read it above if your curious, but this week was second surge since Sept 6. Like clockwork, after four days, it has plunged back down again.
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  seamistposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I find it very strange I start surging on Monday and plunging on Friday for two times now in the last three weeks.
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  xmasdecorationsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  What do you define as a surge as what do you define as a plunge?
  
  Almost everybody sees traffic rise on Mondays and fall on Fridays, its called the weekend, when people go and do stuff which doesn't involve sitting in on their own playing on a computer.
  
  If your talking about a significant increase and a significant fall, huge numbers, 40% plus, then your latest plunge would be explained by the latest minor Panda update.
  
  On Quantcast, look at those equally placed dips, plunges and rises, they occur once per week, every weekend, and have done since HP started.
  
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  seamistposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Before this last surge, my traffic was less than 200/day. This last surge it went up to almost 1700/day. In the last 24 hours, it has plunged down to less than 500 per day. I've been here for three years now, this is more than just weekend declines.
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  xmasdecorationsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  So your surge definitely started on Monday 10th October and not say, a week before that? Because if it were the week before then you were a Panda 2.5 winner.
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  Silver Roseposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I really don't think there is a "massive decline of traffic sitewide".
  
  Here's teh quantcast graph:
  
  It looks like only people with excessive amazon in their accounts have been hurt. I've been saying this since Aug but people don't want to hear it, sadly. I think at the back of their mind is that they made money with amazon last year and they are reluctant to "miss out". But last year is a foreign country, they did things differently there.
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  xmasdecorationsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  This collapse has come off of the back of two $1000+ Amazon months on Hubpages, my two best months since last December.
  
  Today two of my heavy affiliate sites went to #1 for pretty competitive phrases, they are monetized using nothing but Amazon links, and Amazon banners.
  
  In August I made $1200 on Amazon on HP, in September I made $1000. In the immediate wake of Panda, March, I made $243.
  
  So I certainly haven't been saying that in August, September, and am even less inclined to agree now that I have taken top spot in a stellar niche using heavily commercial content.
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  Silver Roseposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  OK I'll re-phrase that. Something about your sub-domain is signalling "spam" to Google.
  
  If you genuinely think it is down to the ads, then switch off hubpages ads.
  
  Here's Paul Deeds post about what the layout looks like with and without HPads:
  
  http://hubpages.com/forum/post/1815804
  
  As far as I can tell, the problems are not site-wide
  
  Edited to add: Take a look at Squidoo pages and their Adsense ad layout. It's far more aggressive than the HP layout, but they are sailing on as normal too.
  
  Also - on non-commercial hubs, hubpages allows you to switch the ads to medium or low or NONE. If you feel the ads are hurting, switch them off!
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  xmasdecorationsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  So tell me why my account was not considered Spam between August and today, yet is considered Spam today?
  
  I think its clear that my account, with many others, have tripped Panda for one reason or another, that would be stating the obvious. The question is what has changed today, why so many people have been caught up. We all survived Panda 2.4, in fact I was a huge winner, that update occurred after the subdomain switch.
  
  Having already gone through the first Panda which saw me go from 28000 page views per day to 10000 page views per day, before going back up to 32000 page views per day until yesterday, you don't need to explain to me what Panda is.
  
  I will be switching off HubAds, but not for that reason, for an altogether different reason - depending on how bad this slump is and just how many big players have been hit. If the problem is a big one, I will switch to AdSense so that I can 'bank' Q4 earnings.
  
  If you are so insistent that commercial hubs with many Amazon capsules are causing the problem, then why do you have so many commercial hubs with Amazon capsules? How is your traffic? Has it declined today? If it hasn't, then we can all be sure that it isn't the problem.
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  Silver Roseposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  They've moved a parameter, and you are now on the wrong side! That's how it works - come now, you know this!
  
  My traffic hasn't declined - it's normal for a Saturday (i.e. exactly in line with last Saturday).
  
  Regarding the "commerciality" of my account, it's 55% pure informational hubs with NO amazon or ebay whatsoever, and 45% commercial hubs with amazon. I'm also careful not to lard each hub with amazon. I usually feature about 3-7 products, no more, though I have one hub with 12 products.
  
  Rather than getting into a paddy, here's some questions to ask yourself:
  
  1) what % of your sub-domain is pure information, and what percentage of your account has amazon?
  
  2) on the amazon hubs, how many amazon links do you have per hub (recall that each product has two amazon links, one for teh image and one for the product)
  
  3) does your acccount have links to other places than amazon - i.e. links to which magazine, nytimes and so on?
  
  4) do you have any backlinks supporting your hubs or are all your links from other sub-domains (i.e. with the same ip address as your sub-domain) FWIW my hubs are backlinked
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  xmasdecorationsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  1) Probably at least 55% are pure information.
  
  2) I write a lot more text per Amazon capsule than you do.
  
  3) No my sales hubs do not link to other places, but yours don't appear to either:
  http://silverrose.hubpages.com/hub/Cute-Christmas-Gifts
  
  4) Many of my hubs are backlinked.
  
  Although it looks like you are talking a load of rubbish to me Silver Rose, I picked one of your sales hubs at random: http://silverrose.hubpages.com/hub/Halloween-Chocolates
  
  which:
  
  - Doesn't have much text per Amazon product
  - Has no outgoing links to anywhere other than Amazon
  - Shows no backlinks in a backlink checker
  
  Your post WOULD have been patronizing, if it wasn't hypocritical. Seeing as Jason Menayan will be along to out me and ban this account at any minute now, I may as well show you some of my sales pages:
  
  http://ryankett.hubpages.com/hub/how-to … humidifier
  http://ryankett.hubpages.com/hub/Best-K … re-Sleeves
  
  As you can see, I make a lot more effort, and my text to product ratio far exceeds the minimum, certainly a lot more text per product than this:
  
  http://silverrose.hubpages.com/hub/Cute-Christmas-Gifts
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  Aficionadaposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  
  I was right, I was right, I was right!! (second guess, though)
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  xmasdecorationsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Lol, I actually outed myself earlier in the thread, but then deleted the post I made it pretty obvious though so no prizes for guessing! My fb has been going wild with people working it out!
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  Aficionadaposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  
  Rats, I was hoping for a prize! (I missed your post outing yourself.)
  
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  xmasdecorationsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  How about a virtual high five?
  
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  Aficionadaposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Done!
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  rebekahELLEposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  hey ryan, I thought it was you. miss you in the forums.
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  wordscribe43posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, I miss him in the forums, too.
  
  This has been a lively thread... lol
  
  I hope everyone's having a good weekend despite the dreadful traffic.
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  rebekahELLEposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  He's a wealth of knowledge.. definitely will liven up a thread.
  
  actually this has been a very good week for me, my top traffic days, ever, took place this past week. weekends are generally slower. who knows.. ? I hope things turn around for you!
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  wordscribe43posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I'm glad your traffic is still holding steady, Rebekah! It's always encouraging for me when a great hubber is still reaping the benefits. Me, well I'm just going to wait it out a bit.
  
  There are quite a few people I miss both for personal reasons and for their knowledge. Ryan and Darkside top that list.
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  CMHypnoposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  And Mark Knowles was also always generous with his time and knowledge, and he certainly did enliven the religious forum threads!
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  Silver Roseposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It's not the text-to-amazon ratio!!! How many times do I have to explain this. It's the number of amazon links. The absolute number of amazon links!
  
  And the linking out is per sub-domain. Panda is SITE-WIDE. That means that they are looking at the over-all metrics of your account. As I've explained before.
  
  And that Halloween chocolates hub is ranking at #4 and cute christmas gifts is at #9, which isn't bad for hubs written in the last couple of weeks!
  
  I'm sorry if you are hurting and sorry you found my suggestions "patronizing" (though I'm finding it real hard not to do so given how excited your responses are!).
  
  I know you think that your hubs are shakesperean compared to everyone else's - but it's not what you think or I think, but what Google thinks. Haven't you realised that yet?
  
  Tell you what, lets call a truce - I won't offer any more advice, and you'll stop acting like the people who are offering you advice have caused your plunge! You are lashing out at the wrong people, pet.
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  xmasdecorationsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yes they are patronizing.
  
  "It's not the text-to-amazon ratio!!! How many times do I have to explain this. It's the number of amazon links. The absolute number of amazon links!"
  
  Wrong, my sites have an average of 20+ Amazon links PER PAGE on EVERY PAGE and currently ranked at #1.
  
  "And the linking out is per sub-domain."
  
  Wrong, you don't need to link out anywhere to achieve rankings.
  
  "Panda is SITE-WIDE. That means that they are looking at the over-all metrics of your account."
  
  Correct, I just find it amusing that you think for some reason that I wouldn't know this already.
  
  "And that Halloween chocolates hub is ranking at #4!"
  
  My sites with hundreds of outgoing Amazon links and no external links to any other sites are ranked at #1. Please don't write this on your CV.
  
  "I'm sorry if you are hurting and sorry you found my suggestions "patronizing"
  
  In terms of being patronizing, you just reached a whole new level.
  
  "I won't offer any more advice"
  
  I can assure you that I am not asking for advice, have certainly never asked you for advice, never would ask you for advice, and take my advice from people who wouldn't been seen dead on this site 'pet'.
  
  xx
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  Silver Roseposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You are having a proper meltdown, arn't you? It would be entertaining if it wasn't sad.
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  xmasdecorationsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you for reminding me why I don't miss this place, it's full of pseudo-intellectuals ramming inaccurate advice down the throats of people who never asked for advice in the first place.
  
  I hate to break it to you, but ranking #4 (actually #5) for a search term which gets 110 exact US searches per month really isn't anything to boast about. Slipping from #1 to #5 for much more lucrative search terms is precisely why I am losing traffic today.
  
  If I needed help ranking at #5 for nothing terms, then I wouldn't be working online full time, wouldn't be paying the bills through affiliate earnings, wouldn't have my current SEO client, and as such wouldn't be the slightest bit worried about my huge traffic losses today. I've had over 10 million page views on Hubpages, earnt over $50000 on this site alone, and am having plenty of success without assistance from you.
  
  Thanks for the unsolicited offer of help though, but I think I will pass this time
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  Silver Roseposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  And you are such a hot-shot you know that that search traffic for halloween stuff is always minimal in the keyword tools because they average the monthly traffic across the year, right? Here's a free tip, check insights for search instead (oops I forgot you didn't want tips, LOL).
  
  I'm glad you arn't the "slightest bit worried about my huge traffic losses today". It certainly sounds that way...
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  xmasdecorationsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Woaaahhhh there, major misquote, I said: "and as such wouldn't be the slightest bit worried about my huge traffic losses today". If I didn't have traffic, I wouldn't be worried about losing it.
  
  Yes I can do maths Silver Rose.
  
  110 x 12 = 1320
  
  Most of which will come in the two or three weeks preceding Halloween. That's how the Google keyword tool works, the average for the last 12 recorded months, including October and November.
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  xmasdecorationsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Has Quantcast even updated yet? The last update was 22.5 hours ago.
  
  It updates in an hour and a half, it isn't showing stats which relate in any way to yesterdays SERPS changes, so unfortunately your graph doesn't say anything at all.
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  Aficionadaposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  The Quantcast site says the last update was October 15 (today) and the next one will be October 16 by 9 AM PDT (= noon EDT). HP lost one place in the rankings since yesterday, but over the past week or more it has been gaining ground more slowly than before; it has even lost a couple of positions at least once, then regained them or gained two in a day. Today it is at #57.
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  xmasdecorationsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It has updated now, it hadn't when she posted it.
  
  Right so that graph shows the traffic up to the end of the 14th, so the end of Friday, 9 hours ago.
  
  It shows Saturday traffic levels on a Friday, tomorrow we will get a better understanding.
  
  Please note that the ranking is the rank over the last month, half a day of stats isn't going to effect that much, it represents 1/62 of the time frame used to calculate the ranking.
  
  There is no doubt in my mind when going onto the month graph that Friday saw a huge slide, which for every affected hubber that I know has continued today.
  
  You can count the days of each week on that graph, to work out which days were Fridays, traffic bottoms each Saturday.
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  Mrvoodooposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  How does that graph show that only people with excessive amazon in their accounts have been hurt?
  
  Or are you basing that statement on your 'feelings' only? In which case, people are wise not to listen to you.
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  xmasdecorationsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  
  Is this one clearer? This goes up to the end of Saturday 15th.
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  Bendo13posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I'm not really sure if it has anything to do with Amazon. I have a few WordPress sites of my own that are on the first page of Google for the keyword I targeted and they're not even a year old yet.
  
  Guess what? All the ads on their point to Amazon! Every post has an Amazon ad and there's an additional Amazon ad in the side bar. There are no other ads.... And I set up 11 of these sites at the end of April, but yet no Panda updates have really done anything to my rankings? The ones that made it to page one have stayed there.
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  Bendo13posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Perhaps this is a better graph to look at to see how much HubPages was progressing and then *bloop* sitewide crash and ohhh we're back to how we were at the beginning of 2010 and we're OK with that?
  
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  Silver Roseposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Alexa is an estimate only (based on people who have the Alexa toolbar, which tends to be mainly tech and IM people).
  
  The quantcast figures by contrast are true figures, there's a quantcast pixel widget on every single hub on this site and it counts all the hits.
  
  Some people have undoubtedly crashed, but others are holding steady at much higher levels than pre-Panda. That's what the sub-domains were designed to do - un-shackle us from each other so performance depends on the individual and no one is held down by the actions of people they don't control.
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  xmasdecorationsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Don't be too quick to dismiss the victims of plunges as in anyway inferior to those who have thus far remaining unaffected, I have lost 33% of my traffic yet my midweek daily traffic rate is still 20000 hits per day, I would hazard a guess that this is still outperforming the accounts of many whom, like yourself, are claiming to be as-of-yet entirely unaffected.
  
  The reality is that these subdomains can potentially remain volatile for up to 12 months as a result of being considered new sites, it is the Google dance, and no doubt you will have experienced it with your own sites in their infancy. Don't rule out the possibility of your own account taking a plunge, I think that we have already ascertained that your own content is no better than the content owned by those who have seen recent traffic declines.
  
  I wouldn't wish a plunge on anybody, but nobody is going to be immune to them, including you. Some will escape them, but Google is sending ripples through the SERPS and it doesn't matter whether you are whiter than white or blacker than black, a literary genius or a semi-literate writer, Google is not making as much sense right now as you think it is. I don't know a single webmaster with a decent sized portfolio who isn't seeing sites being shuffled like a pack of cards with no obvious logic, it has been going on for months now.
  
  More often than not SERPS movement has nothing to do with 'actions' or indeed lack of actions, in fact often the best policy is to change nothing and wait.
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  LeanManposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Pretty impressive after 2 weeks on HP..................
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  ThomasEposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  He HASN'T been on HP for 2 weeks. He has been here for 3 years, and has well over 700 hubs written on multiple accounts.
  
  This account is recent.
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  xmasdecorationsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  LeanMan, a few pages back I link to some of the hubs on my primary account.
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  Bendo13posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Alright... since you say that is inaccurate and ignored what I was showing.. let's go ahead and look at the site you suggest...
  
  Climbing, climbing, climbing... DROP and now we're back up to the levels we were at when the initial drop happened and... this is good? not a sitewide problem? nothing to see here? still a good site to get started on and nothing needs fixed?
  
  If you go there yourself and click ALL you'll see that even that little peak that is pretty recent only brings us back to where we were a year ago... sure it's some kind of progress but to wipe out a whole year of progress and say it's only happening to some people isn't accurate.
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  IzzyMposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hubpages have quite a few high trafficked hubbers who will remain unaffected. I think you'll find this latest update will only hit a few of us, and we are left wondering what we did wrong.
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  xmasdecorationsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Give me an example of a high traffic hubber who will remain unaffected, because the more you talk about this the less you are showing yourself to know. I think that you will find that most hubbers have been hit.
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  IzzyMposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It's not up to me to name them, but have a look on HP's front page for a start. Oh apart from Susana S - she reported a drop.
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  xmasdecorationsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Why are you assuming that those hubbers will not be affected? It was pretty clear that most lost a lot of money and a lot of traffic in the last Panda and that many have not recovered.
  
  How many hubbers do you know who have specifically said that they haven't lost traffic? I can tell you that I could name 14 who have had massive traffic losses in the past 24 hours. Absolutely massive, as big as the first Panda.
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  IzzyMposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Just noticed this, new hubber AND a know-it-all?
  
  Is there any need to insult established hubbers on here?
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  xmasdecorationsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I am not a new hubber IzzyM, I've just told you that. What is an "established hubber" anyway, some sort of hierarchy? Funny stuff, chuckle worthy. Many of the sites biggest names and biggest traffic people have seen their traffic pretty much disintegrate over the past 24 hours, you are not alone, even if you seem to think that you are. If in doubt, email them, go on, send them emails... ask them, never assume.
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  IzzyMposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Interesting.
  
  Yet when I posted yesterday that my keywords had suffered a massive and sudden drop, no-one responded.
  
  Of course this was before the actual traffic drop, but I could see it was coming.
  
  No-one else seemed to have anything wrong.
  
  Today we have a few hubbers coming to the forums to report a drop, but not huge numbers like after Panda hit.
  
  But I will bow to your superior knowledge in this.
  
  I'm still trying to figure out whose sockpuppet you are. Because that is what a 2nd account member is when he/she doesn't admit their usual username.
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  xmasdecorationsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You know as well as I do IzzyM that very few people post on this forum anymore, you also know as well as I do that they communicate away from this forum, and you know where that takes place. Haven't admitted my usual username? You haven't even asked.
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  seamistposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Leave her alone!!!!
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  IzzyMposted 13 years agoin reply to this
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  xmasdecorationsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
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  IzzyMposted 13 years agoin reply to this
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  xmasdecorationsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Well I thought that they were finished months ago IzzyM, but a miracle seemed to happen (well, a stroke of genius, in all honesty).
  
  All I know is that I have yet to speak to anybody with HP gains, a lots of people with HP losses. I also know that my own sites are up. Who knows.
  
  I can't say "yes" to that, because I was proved wrong last time. But my account is looking finished right now in all honesty.
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  xmasdecorationsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  IzzyM, delete your post about *myusername* before they all wake up - I'll email you in about an hour, I need to pop to the shop for 20 B&H and a bottle or two of Red Bull.
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  Aficionadaposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Awww.
  
  Well, the voice is familiar, but I have been wrong in my guesses before, so it's probably not smart to speculate out loud. I would say, "It's nice to see you again," but I would probably get my head blown off! !! !! !!
  
  However, the note about Red Bull does throw a spanner in the works - for my first guess anyway.
  
  As far as traffic goes, I need to wait another couple of hours before I see whether my lower figures are a weekend dip or otherwise. Right now, I haven't seen the stats update in the last hour, so it's hard to analyze them just yet.
  
  IzzyM, I have also checked out duckduckgo, and I love the look of it. No ads, very clean, just good results. Woo-hoo! But I do wonder how they are supported financially? Does anyone know? I wouldn't mind starting an aggressive campaign to ask everyone to use them - and maybe send them a freewill donation too!
  
  Well, that probably blows all my theories away.
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IzzyMposted 13 years ago
You are only new on Hubpages. Please don't insult us by suggesting the surges and plunges are normal traffic fluctuations.
This has been discussed in depth on many threads before your arrival here.
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  seamistposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you Izzy. I thought the same thing, I just didn't want to ruffle his feather when it's not his fault. My problem is HP's lack of response to this.
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  IzzyMposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I have no problem with HP's lack of response. The last time I asked them for help I got insulted, and so did Randy Godwin. (Awkwards writers, remember?)
  
  If that is the best 'help' they can offer, they are better off staying silent, IMO.
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  seamistposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Obviously, I haven't gone to bed yet. I am sorry they acted that way Izzy. Neither you or Randy are akward writers. I just think they come with whatever 'cause they don't want to deal with us. All I can is what comes around, goes around.
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  xmasdecorationsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I haven't suggested that your decline is a weekend surge, I am under no illusion that your decline is a result of a Panda update which occurred yesterday, possibly aided by the addition of yet another ad unit. With 6 ad units per page of your content, I'm surprised that you aren't concerned about that too.
  
  And yeah, obviously I joined 2 weeks ago, because none of us have the ability to established second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh, eighth, ninth, or tenth accounts If you know such much about Panda IzzyM then you would be pointing this out to Seamist and not me....
  
  Seamist, in very early October there was a major Panda update which HP gained a lot from, one of the biggest winners. Your massive surge was probably a result of that. Your latest decline is probably as a result of the latest minor Panda tweak, which has affected almost every hubber that I communicate with off-site.
  
  You are asking why the HP staff haven't commented on this thread, yet acknowledge that your decline didn't start until yesterday. I am merely pointing out that they probably aren't awake yet, and will probably get into work to be presenting with depressing sitewide traffic statistics.
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  seamistposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Not to be rude, but I've been sick all night. I'm calling it day. Regardless of what you say, yes, I feel HP has been remiss on not broaching this.
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  seamistposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Before I go to bed, this is isn't the first time I've whined on the forums. I have been responding on them since the beginning of Sept. If you had read my other posts, you would know that this wasn't my first plunge/surge or probably may last.
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cardeleanposted 13 years ago
Leah, I'm thrilled that you shared information about your plunge as well. You and I seem to have similar writing styles/topics and I wondered who else who is similar to me was affected. Keep me posted on any changes that you see.

I'm hoping that the reason that it was just a slight dip for me in Aug. was because I didn't have too many views as it was and I regained my traffic within just a week or two last time with great increases. I'm hoping that the reason for the larger plunge this time is just due to the ratio of views that I am (was) currently getting and that it will be short lived. Also, the weekend is never a good comparison because my views are always lower then.
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IzzyMposted 13 years ago
OK
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  xmasdecorationsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  IzzyM, I've sent you an email. Thanks for making me a sockpuppet again
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  wildernessposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Too late - the hidden eyes are watching! 500 views per day might buy silence, though...
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  xmasdecorationsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  500 per day?
  
  I'm not going to be getting much more than that myself from now on unfortunately!
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Rik Ravadoposted 13 years ago
Glad 'xmas' and Izzy are friends again! We are all in this together!

My primary account (Rik) is still holding up (appart from usual weekend dip) but my secondary account is dying!
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  xmasdecorationsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  On another note, has anybody tried to start a NEW account since the subdomain switch? Winning Google traffic on a new account is extremely difficult, I tried, and failed.... miserably.
  
  I was actually just starting to publish again on my main account, and for a few days it worked, and then this!
  
  With starting new accounts so difficult, and my only established account freefalling into the abyss, it really leaves no other option (for me personally) than to build on my own sites (which is what I had been doing for 6 months).
  
  Trust me to come back a week before another Panda wipeout, am I to blame? Did my 4 new average quality hubs push everybody off the edge?
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  wildernessposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yep - we'll all blame you!
  
  There has been theorizing, though, that part of the problem may be an excess of amazon or ebay capsules. I have no idea, but my own second account of nothing but sales hubs got slapped a month or so ago - moving a handful of those better performers to this account revived them but (so far) hasn't hurt this account. (I glanced at your hubs)
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  xmasdecorationsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I've had two Wordpress sites full of Amazon ads and Amazon links shoot right up the SERPS in the last 24 hours, that's the only reason why I won't subscribe to that theory myself. I'm talking 10-25 amazon links PER PAGE of 30-40 page websites.
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  wildernessposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Well, I don't really subscribe myself - just threw it out there after looking at your new account. In my case most of the hubs on the second account never did much and that was more likely the reason for the slap. I don't recall those 18 hubs ever getting over 20 views per day, and that could well affect the whole account - when nearly the entire thing is bad G will eventually notice it.
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  PaulGoodman67posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I am sympathetic to the theory and believe that the Amazon capsules could be a factor in *some* cases of plunging on HubPages. I don't, however, believe that the Google algo can be simplified into rigid, simple rules. The essential nature of the algo is that it works on probabilites and tendencies.
  
  It is very difficult to understand what is going on overall at the moment, there may well be multiple things happening, but I personally have erred on the side of caution, as far as Amazon capsules on HubPages go.
  
  Google have been open about their desire to "tackle content farms", so I wouldn't be surprised if they are trying to find algo updates that effect HP, while generally leaving other sites, such as Wordpress ones, less effected.
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  SirDentposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I removed almost every Amazon capsule from my hubs. I stopped using Ebay a long time ago. Like others, I have also taken another nosedive.
  
  This is a screenshot from Sept. 5 to Current date of Oct. 15
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  CASE1WORKERposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I have just started a second account and it is like uphill all the way! Still hub no 2 going on the afternoon and I hope that my reader ( ever hopeful here) will enjoy it- Mr G will not look at me til I am 75 or over me thinks so only a couple more points and then it will be hello Mr G, I am here!
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Silver Roseposted 13 years ago
As it happens, they have just secured venture capitalist funding. Here's the note from the venture capitalist:

http://www.usv.com/2011/10/duck-duck-go.php

This means they will grow, but also that at some point they will have ads (as the venture capitalist will demand it)
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  IzzyMposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  This could be the start of them becoming big. I hope so because it looks very much like the only way back for many of us is to be found on a search engine that actually returns results worth finding, not pages and pages of scraped crap or big name sites.
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iQwestposted 13 years ago
My traffic has reversed in the last 24 hours, for the better! I've gone from virtually zero Google search engine traffic to a tiny trickle.

Since September 21, 2011, I have only been receiving 0 - 7 (mostly 0 - 3) Google search engine page views, per day, for 90 Hubs! Yesterday, Google search engine page views popped to 50 and today the trend is continuing. Still horrible traffic levels, but clearly something changed despite having made zero changes to my Hubs in roughly the past week and no major changes whatsoever in quite some time now.

For comparison, I started writing on HubPages in January this year and, back in March, with considerably less Hubs, one day I had received nearly 700 organic search engine page views from Google.

Over at Squidoo, I have 28 indexed lenses that have received over 18,000 Google search engine page views since September 21, 2011 to present.

As I've noted countless times now, something doesn't add up!!!
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mary615posted 13 years ago
Never heard of duckduckgo, but I'm going to check it out..thanks.
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reindeerzposted 13 years ago
I'm removing some of my horrible hubs I made when I first started that pretty much never get hits. And I'm going through and updating each of my other hubs one by one (At around 90 hubs now instead of 118.) We'll see if I get any results from that. My hits have been up and down over the past month, and I seemed to be going into another downward slide, so we'll see if this helps.
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Randy Godwinposted 13 years ago
My plunge continues with no more drops or spikes since Aug 10. I suppose they decided to kill me quickly instead of making me get my hopes up at all. Charitable of them(Google).
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  seamistposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry Randy; you deserve better.
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Aficionadaposted 13 years ago
Okay, I set up a spreadsheet so that I could calculate traffic changes quickly and accurately. I've mostly been estimating before now.

I have compared each day to the previous day; each day to the previous same day of the week (Monday to Monday, etc.); and each day to a baseline same day of the week (each Monday to the first Monday of the series). And now I've got so many numbers that I don't know what I'm looking at!

But I do know that my traffic yesterday dropped nearly 40% from the previous day. It was still ~10% higher than the previous Friday, and ~140% higher than the baseline Friday.

Today's stats are crummy so far.
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  IzzyMposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I too have a spreadsheet set up, but I just add my daily figures so I can easily reference which days traffic dropped or gained or whatever.
  
  The best way to check your own expected traffic is to keep a close eye on your keywords in the SERPS.
  
  I don;t know if this is how other people do it, but when I find a hub is ranking, I tend to check all possible combinations of its (title) keywords that got it there.
  
  eg...Buy Breville Sandwich Maker could be Buy Breville, buy Breville sandwich maker, Breville sandwich maker, sandwich maker, to name a few.
  
  I use scroogle.org to check rankings, otherwise I get localised results.
  Go to Scroogle scraper and you will see it is just like a search engine.
  
  Put your keywords in, one at a time, and remember your position. try all your possible keywords, and just remember those that ranked.
  
  Also check you hub statistics for search terms that brought people to your hub.
  
  You may have written something like "100 people surveyed preferred a Breville sandwich maker to Whiskas".
  
  You might be ranking for Whiskas too!
  
  Keep a copy of scroogle opened in a tab and check your keywords at least twice a day. Its a good idea to do this while Google is apparently unstable like now.
  
  Scroogle has an auto-remember function so the first couple of letters of your search should come up so you don't have to type the whole lot out.
  
  Just watch for changes.
  
  The day I surged, I saw those keywords shooting up the #1 spot on many hubs. the traffic rises came afterwards.
  
  The days I have plunged, like yesterday, I saw the keywords drop off sharply first.
  
  just thought this might help someone, although to be honest it doesn't change anything, just like a little bit of advance warning of something happening, good or bad.
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theherbivorehippiposted 13 years ago
On a comical note....my ONLY hub with a red arrow currently is one about using apple cider vinegar to get rid of skunk smells off dogs. This leads me to believe that many dog owners are having a not-so-fun day today? hehe
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  wordscribe43posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  That's too funny. My only red arrow is my hub with an online depression quiz. Perhaps the skunky dog owners are feeling a bit down in the dumps?
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  theherbivorehippiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  lol..that very well could be!
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toygurusposted 13 years ago
This latest algorithm is not only affecting hubpages. Here is what I have noiced. Amazon and Ebay and other well established brands are now ranking at the top. It doesn't really matter on the content. Also youtube videos are ranking over content websites. We will have to see where the dust settles but right now brands rule.
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toygurusposted 13 years ago
Whenever I hear that google made a panda update I think of this commercial

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVW3K3-sNbQ
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theirishobserver.posted 13 years ago
The plunge is upon us, it must be defeated
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theirishobserver.posted 13 years ago
Fresh content and activity is the only way to beat the plunge
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IzzyMposted 13 years ago
Does anybody think it possible an inaccurate Analytics search metric data may be to blame?

http://www.webpronews.com/google-panda- … cs-2011-10

"There have been MANY reports across the web of the bounce rate and time on site being inaccurate every since August 11th, especially when multiple 301 redirects are involved (which we use heavily)."

The date, the mention of 301s, hey that could be us!!
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  seamistposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I'm no expert, but I kind of doubt it. Otherwise, it would be just be Hubpages that has the problem, and people are also having problems on their personal websites. I know on my personal website I just started in January, finally, in Sept. I started making progress. I made $100. Then at the end of September, Google took away most my traffic. Now this month, I've only made 38 cents between HP and my website.
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  IzzyMposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I'm no expert either LOL, but I found this site the other day and I've been thinking about it on and off.
  It was Daniweb's engineers that noticed what could be the problem, apparently.
  They suffered really badly in a recent update, and then Google tweaked the algorithm to get them out of it! Big site with pulling power obviously.
  Hubpages aren't even mentioned in that article, but if Google are indeed using metrics from Analtyics that are faulty due to a change they implemented, it could certainly explain a lot of things.
  Like why some hubbers are plunging and soaring - they are maybe on the edge of this 'trip factor' it could be called.
  I see some commenters on that link are experimenting with removing Analytics, but I don't think it can be removed.
  It's like it has information that Google gather anyway, and allowing you an account just allows you to look at it too. So take your part of it away, and Google still has the data.
  
  I liked this, it shows you how Google is collecting huge amounts of info about you.
  
  Use ctrl and + key to zoom in.
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  seamistposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  All I can say is thanks for sharing it with us, Izzy.
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  PaulGoodman67posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Well, they got my favorite cheese correct, at least! ;-)
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seamistposted 13 years ago
People have all kinds of theories. Just like the discussion with "dog with bone in his mouth or RK" on the ad ratio. I didn't even put hubads on my account so it has no bearing.
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  IzzyMposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I don't think any of us are right. We've al been guessing what is wrong and making changes that are probably all for nothing.
  
  Not just us, of course, but every webmaster out there who has been hit by some or all of the updates.
  
  If there is one good thing Panda has done, it has been to force webmasters into tidying up their sites - getting rid out outdated content etc.
  
  At the end of the day though, none of these things have made a difference to a lot of sites, they came out of it in one update, and back in the plunge on the next.
  
  As for Hubpages, I have simply no idea why some accounts have been unaffected, and other have been hit hard.
  
  That link I posted about a possible Analytics glitch or mistake, seems the most likely at the moment, because nothing else makes sense.
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  CASE1WORKERposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Looking at the Quantcast data the weekend dip for HP has been deeper- it will be interesting to see how the week pans out.
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  xmasdecorationsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You do realise that I was only offering that as a theory right? I've never said that I can't be wrong or that it has to be that, an idea on the table is better than no idea on the table, whether you see any validity in it or not.
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  seamistposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I agree with you. Any idea is better than no idea at all.
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seamistposted 13 years ago
@ Izzy

I get the feeling that somehow you might think I thought your idea wasn't helpful. Maybe I'm sensing things wrong. My last statement a couple of hours ago was just that...nothing more or nothing less. Unless, Google actually tells us what is wrong, I don't think we're going to know. It's a shame that Google has to worry about their system being gamed so much that everything has to be so secretive.
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seamistposted 13 years ago
It would be interesting to know how Nellie Hoaxie's (sp?)account would be doing now if she hadn't of taken it down since it was all Amazon for the most part.
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seamistposted 13 years ago
Like mentioned by some other hubbers, I don't think my recent surges and plunges have that much of a connection with Panda. I think the account is undergoing some kind of testing.
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xmasdecorationsposted 13 years ago
RichieB, please remove the space between the first name and last name. This is he, my traffic is in freefall, since Friday, so not any more...
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xmasdecorationsposted 13 years ago
Seamist, 'NH' prefers to keep her name off of the internet these days, so sure she would be grateful if you could shorten it to just first name there

Sure she would be doing very well, but she does her own thing now, sure she is very successful at that too.
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toygurusposted 13 years ago
Here's what I think is happening with Panda. People who are plunging and surging have got the Panda penalty applied to their subdomain. Google has been using user data to train an algorithm that can detect "bad content." If your subdomain got flagged with the penalty my theory is Google will temporarily send you more traffic to see what users will do on your site. I have noticed right before I plunged a surge of traffic was sent to my pages. Things like bounce rates and what users do on your page are being measured.

Panda doesn't get applied to a page it gets applied to the entire subdomain. That means one page that triggered the Panda penalty would theoretically cause your entire subdomain or domain to sink.

Panda gets updated every month so changes you make today won't take effect until the next update when google sends out its bot to see if the penalty can be lifted.

Google has stated that it doesn't want thin affiliate sites or content loaded with ads. So I think we have to take a critical look at all of our content and begin testing since google doesn't tell us what trips the panda filter.

Here is what I am going to do on my small test account. Remove all affiliate links to ebay and amazon and hub ads on my pages.Wait a month and find out when the next update is applied. At that moment if the panda penalty is lifted I know what is wrong. This way I only have content on my subdomain which should not trip panda.

Here's what Matt Cutts says about penalties being lifted
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ES01L4xjSXE

Here is when the Panda updates occurred
Panda Update 1.0: Feb. 24, 2011
Panda Update 2.0: April 11, 2011
Panda Update 2.1: May 10, 2011
Panda Update 2.2: June 16, 2011
Panda Update 2.3: July 23, 2011
Panda Update 2.4: August 12, 2011
Panda Update 2.5: September 28, 2011
Minor Panda Update October 13, 2011
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  CASE1WORKERposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Whilst I like the theory I was tripped on the 23rd September and yes I had noticed the spikes in traffic prior to the trip which I had thought was coming!
  I have a second account, no amazon or ebay- kept HP ads for the moment, but it tis too small to draw any conclusions
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  IzzyMposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  
  No surge in traffic, but I did notice my bounce rates significantly increased. They meant from 75/79% to 95% which my account NEVER gets. It was almost like a false signal to be honest.
  
  Content loaded with ads and thin content is on your EMD (exact match domain) sites. You know if you are looking for information to skip them, because they carry nothing buy ads for Amazon or whatever affiliate they are promoting. Yet those sites are flooding front pages. Google loves them! I know, I have a couple myself taking up multiple slots at the top of Google. Actually mine are informational not sales EMDs, mores the pity.
  
  What I think is iffy about this strategy is that your traffic could return on its own, and not during a Panda run, as we have seen from multiple people reporting random surges and plunges not during known panda runs.
  So if your traffic returned on its own, you would assume then that the ads caused the drop-off, where it might not have been.
  I am not taking Amazon off. My Amazon hubs were my only money makers on here - I never did crack Adsense as such although I used to earn maybe $10 - 15 a day from there, that's in the dark and distant history.
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  toygurusposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I was penalized on Sept 23 as well. Panda is iterated on everyday but major updates come once a month. The Panda penalty can occur on any day but google checks penalties once a month because they give you time to make changes.
  
  I am pretty sure it will work because I have been following this on the google webmaster forums. Google doesn't want sites created specifically to send people to affiliate offers or just to collect adsense revenue. If you are creating content for those purposes you will have a hard time getting in the organic rankings on google.They have a bunch of users that say users on the web hate sites filled with ads and affiliate offers. Panda is trained to recognize sites with similar patterns.
  
  I have noticed that squidoo has not been penalized and that is because the search engine doesn't see their amazon modules. Hubpages needs to do the same if they allow people to use ebay and amazon modules.
  
  The panda penalty is real and is separate from the the ranking algorithm and it is applied site wide. I think that the only thing we can do is test and not just follow random theories. I'll let you know if I get my traffic back:) All my other sites are ranking really really well and they have no adsense on them and have one affiliate link at most on each page.
  
  One of the most important factors is to get low bounce rates. Hubs typically get high bounce rates. The other factor is to make sure users spend time on the page and not just click through to affiliate offers. If they wanted that they would just click on the ads at the top of the search results.
  
  P.s. Google is actually trying to address the EMD problem with its latest update. You might see them temporary bumped but the alogorithm is supposed to determine whether these sites have value. Google is sending a temporary surge to them to evaluate what users are doing on them. Later Panda is supposed to come and wipe them out. We will see if this happens.
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Polly Cposted 13 years ago
Well, I have a second account with over 100 hubss that has been completely hammered for the last two months. It's full of amazon and I had high hopes for it at one time. This account, although it was my first I have kept for other kinds of writing. Because it has only a few hubs, and also because many are either creative writing or local travel hubs which are not searched for that much, it has always had low traffic. However, it has recently been gaining in traffic, slowly but surely. Now it has more google views per day than the other account. One of my poems is less than 200 words long and yet has been getting 15 search engine views per day. Not a lot in most people's eyes of course, but that is up from virtually nothing.

I have thought about moving my best hubs from the other account onto here but am a bit afraid to incase I jeopardise it! The drawback from this account is that, while traffic has improved and is still improving, it makes hardly any money. That was the whole point of the failing second account, which did really well last Christmas but is unlikely to this year. (It did have a recovery of 3 days with soaring traffic but that didn't last).

I am convinced the heavy commercial emphasis on my second account has led to its downfall.
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  PaulGoodman67posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I very nearly did the same as you and set up a second account that was going to be all about Amazon. This was seen as a good idea by many on here until recently. But now that wisdom is questionable, as you point out.
  
  The only problem with my current strategy of having one profile is that all my eggs are in one basket, so if this profile goes down, then I am stuffed (as far as HP goes anyway).
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  Polly Cposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah, I know what you mean - it certainly seems riskier than ever to put all your eggs into one basket. I think having more than account might be a good idea just in case one sinks and you can always put up a few hubs and just see how it goes - however having an Amazon orientated account seems unpredictable right now, to say the least.
  
  On this account I do have one Amazon targeted hub, but only one out of 30 hubs. This hub is unaffected by any plunges and ranks quite well, so I reckon just having a few amazon hubs is probably ok.
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  toygurusposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I think we have to change our focus and start writing hubs to inform our readers more than to sell them stuff. I think Google has now started looking at the words of content on the page compared to how many affiliate links are being offered. I have to test this, but the organic search results have to be primary focused on providing content. That what google is saying on their forums.
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  Polly Cposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, I think you're right about having to change focus. I do write quite long hubs but at the same time I often have a lot of links out to amazon on the same page. For me, having to change focus is really disappointing, since I have found it much easier to make money through amazon as opposed to adsense.
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jamaicavillasposted 13 years ago
For ever babe...forever!
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Richieb799posted 13 years ago
It was the opposite for me, there was the 8 month struggle to get to the Adsense threshold, then one hub just exploded with views and it was easy from then on. It just takes time for your work to be recognized and find the right topic...I've had a big increase in traffic this week as well so fingers crossed I'll weather the January anti-climax after the Christmas shoppers have maxed out.
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prettydarkhorseposted 13 years ago
I think that after the first Panda last Feb, the views continue to decrease in all my accounts -- not until the subdomain switch where views went back to pre panda level plus some. Just after the subdomain switch my views were at the lowest, but after a month, it doubled, then after another month it tripled. I tend to compare views on a monthly basis and averages to avoid frustrations. Since perhaps G will keep on updating, there is no definitive criteria on what bombs. I never edited my hubs or did something. Transferring to subdomain did helped a lot to boost views for now (in my case), but we will never know what will happen again.

There is pattern towards weekend and weekdays, depending on topics. CTR never recover until now.
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Richieb799posted 13 years ago
I've been witnessing some strange effects of this Panda, I've seen other topsite's had massive crashes in April just after it hit. For Example, SmallBusiness.co.uk where a client of mine posts ads was receiving around 6000 views a day and dropped to 3000. I have landing pages which are appearing and disappearing from one week to the next on page 2.
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psycheskinnerposted 13 years ago
Um, I plunged *bad* with panda 1 and have no amazon because my state is not allowed to be amazon affiliates. So... no, that isn't the whole deal. I don't think any one thing is the whole deal.
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  Bendo13posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah... this domain is being handicapped and who knows what Google wants to see before they let us rise again.
  
  Seems to me that big magazines do well in outranking me now with maybe 100-200 words and tons of ads on their pages... Google's doing so well at giving people great content and information... nice one guys!
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  toygurusposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I agree hubpages is being handicapped because google has classified this domain as a content farm because it meets all of the criteria set forth in the panda algorithm. And since google is not very open anything we are saying is speculation. Google has only said they don't like sites that are made for adsense and sites that are just affiliate offers. It really does look like Google is favoring large brands. The only thing is that we have to work with Google since everyone searches with it. No other search engine is going to send us enough traffic. Unfortuantely, it's google's search engine and they can do whatever they want.
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psycheskinnerposted 13 years ago
I don't think its all a site wide handicap either, because Panda 2 popped me right back up.
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  Bendo13posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Scroll up and look at the daily traffic rank pic from alexa that I posted. HubPages was on a steady climb, then crashed and now we're back at the rank we had at the beginning of 2010.
  
  I'd say that's site wide to go from 300 in the world for traffic to 200 - that has to be a HUGE amount of traffic difference... but we're all on different cycles since we switched over to the subdomains at different times.
  
  Our subdomains would be included in that traffic... so some might rise while others drop and some might still do well no matter what (depending on who they are, how they have been promoted and so on) but we're still not getting anywhere near the traffic we had sitewide on this site in January...
  
  So it's not like the subdomains failed it's just that they didn't do enough. We lost over a year of progress and didn't get it back yet.
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  toygurusposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I think the subdomain is a bandaid on a much larger problem.
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  PaulGoodman67posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I think HP are pragmatic about the loss in traffic overall and are trying to make up the shortfall with more efective revenue raising, rather than any quick increase in traffic. It is in their interest to increase advertising revenue, whatever the situation, of course, but it became more crucial this year.
  
  Because everyone's situation is different, post subdomains, that's to say, you might be plunging/surging for completely different reasons to why another hubber is plunging/surging (even if the symptoms are similar, the illness may be different), it's difficult for HP to do much unless they dealt with people on a case by case basis, which isn't going to happen.
  
  One of the subtle effects of adopting subdomains is that we are now much more on our own than we were before.
  
  I do think that the surging and plunging will die down eventually, however. In my case, I've had nothing dramatic happen to my traffic, since early Sept.
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  David 470posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  PaulGoodman67,
  
  "I've had nothing dramatic happen to my traffic, since early Sept."
  
  Same here. My traffic has basically been the same since then, which is good because I have far more traffic than ever before.
  
  I have seen some big rises, but I think it was due to weekend traffic search trends, that's it.
  
  I'm not sure how long I can maintain this traffic until I will need to publish hubs that get a lot of traffic.
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Stacie Lposted 13 years ago
Well I had another surge over the weekend and now is back down..It seems Google gives me one weekend a month for traffic ...
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psycheskinnerposted 13 years ago
Lovely implication up there that plungers should just be cuts loose and left behind.
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  CMHypnoposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Don't worry they will soon be squealing for sympathy when they plunge themselves!
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  PaulGoodman67posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  The plungers have already been cut loose, haven't they? Or do you guys know something I don't?
  
  I wasn't aware of anything in particular being done to help them?
  
  Whenever I see a plunger I always think: There but for the grace of Google, go I.
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  wildernessposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  HP may have cut them loose, although I doubt it. If I were HP I would be concerned and wanting to know why - how long till the entire site begins to punge?
  
  The community hasn't cut them loose, though. I know a lot of people are always looking for possible answers - it's just that no one is coming up with much. Theories that don't pan out, but that's about it.
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  cameciobposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Well said. I think you're right. The subdomain switch was designed for it. But, as google Panda doesn't always brings the right results, the subdomain switch may have had its glitches too.
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  CMHypnoposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I got given some fairly general advice from HP when I really pushed for it such as hubs with 'buy.....' may be the problem, linking to the same sites too often yah yah yah.
  
  I've done lots of tweaking but nothing has changed, and I get the strong feeling that HP really don't know themselves or don't want to tell us if they do. Also there are plenty of accounts that seem to do all the things they advise against that haven't plunged?
  
  I really hope that no other hubber plunges, as it it is a truly horrible experience after all the hard work you have put it - but don't blame the plungers,; it is not because they are bad writers or have no SEO knowledge.
  
  And as I have a 100 hubscore right now, don't think that a high score is any protection, as Google is not interested in hubscore!
  
  Hung out to dry - there is always new hubbers coming along after all!
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  CASE1WORKERposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I totally agree, they dont know! How can you have a hub score of 100 and yet be a plunger , no doubt advised like myself to check your content etc.
  
  Some weeks ago they were asking for votes for Paul to speak at a conference on how HP beat Panda- I did not vote, as I was unsure of the evidence and thought it too soon to tell. I wonder if any of those who voted are in mid plunge wondering what on earth has happenned.
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  CMHypnoposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Shows that hubscore isn't based on traffic!
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You are correct, CM. HP staff has no clue why we were chosen as sacrificial lambs while others were untouched.
  
  And yes, having a 100 profile score is no indication of success as we both have discovered. It's almost an insult now when the 100 pops up.
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  CMHypnoposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah the big 100 is no compensation for the lost dollars Randy - keep those lakes of yours well stocked - with fish! Frogdropping needs her legs!
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  Mrvoodooposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  "HP staff has no clue."
  
  ^ That's really all you need to know. Move on. This dog is dead.
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  IzzyMposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Of course they have a clue! What are you talking about man!
  
  They READ HUBS ALOUD and know exactly what is wrong - it is Google's secret weapon - the readability factor!
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  Mrvoodooposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  From what I've witnessed lately, unless the hubs in question come with pop-up segments, plenty of pictures, and colouring-in activities for their crayons, I'd be surprised if that were true.
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  IzzyMposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Love it!!! +100
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  CMHypnoposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Ah! the real answer at last!!!! Write hubs for people who can't actually read?
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Aficionadaposted 13 years ago
I just watched Matt Cutts' webmaster video on things to check if you lose traffic. It's too technical for me right now, but it may be worth checking out for those who can understand it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gx04qNrCbnk
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  Paige Mastersposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks, Aficionada. That was interesting and possibly useful. I will know more when I have a chance to check it out in WMT.
  
  My plunge continues, I'm now on day 23 with no sign of recuperation. In fact, it's plunged even more today. What I wouldn't give to get some stats on the number of plungers... It's always been touted as us being in the minority, but I'd love to know if that still holds true.
  
  By the way, this is also wordscribe43... I've all but abandoned that account.
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TerryGlposted 13 years ago

What plunge!
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frogdroppingposted 13 years ago
I plunged in February. I've never un-plunged. I remain in the dirt, despite any/all work I've done as per HP expectations, tweaks and so on. Having now seen the benefits of what can happen when you put the same effort into your own site/s, I no longer have the inclination to publish on HP.

Far too much disparity and general malcontent on the whole. Which is a shame because HP is my online home, in a sense.
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  IzzyMposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  THIS!
  
  I am trying to get things into perspective inside my own head.
  
  I've plunged n top of a plunge, but before that my subdomain did very well and I may even have been seeing light at the end of a long tunnel (I depend on HP mainly for my income).
  
  In a scrabble not to lose Christmas all together, I have been frantically scribbling new hubs on a new unslapped subdomain.
  
  But hey, I have sites too, that I started building earlier on the year.
  
  I got stuck on one, though.
  
  Does anyone know the name of the wordpress plugin I need to get an array of amazon items on one page?
  
  I don't even the word of what I am looking for so my searches have proven fruitless, but I did see someone mention it on the forums here a few months ago.
  
  If I can figure this one out, I can finish building my sites that should save Christmas for me.
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  ThomasEposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I find WP Shopping Pages is the easiest,
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  IzzyMposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks I hadn't heard of that one. I'm having to out for a while, so I'll check it out later,
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  IzzyMposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I had a look and I see it looks the biz! But it is $69 (I am used to using free plug-ins). Would you say it is worth it? I'll happily pay for software that can make me its money back.
  Grudge paying for stuff that doesn't work too well - been there, done that!
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  ThomasEposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Very hard to say. Most of the sites I run are mainly hand coded, because I have weird requirements that don't really work well with any of the plugins I've seen so far, and don't generally deal with a lot of products.
  
  Was just suggesting it as a possibility I am looking into, wouldn't want to go so far as recommending it
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  seamistposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  @ Izzy
  
  This site may help you: http://www.1stwebdesigner.com/tutorials … wordpress/
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  IzzyMposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks!
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  seamistposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  @ frogdropping
  
  On your new websites, I assume they're Amazon product websites since you wrote product hubs here. Are you having any trouble getting traffic on those? I ask because I made an Amazon product website in January, and I'm having a heck of time getting traffic to mine.
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Skefflingposted 13 years ago
Count me in the plunger stats! 80% of my traffic to my 22 hubs (about 80 views a day) comes from google and I am down to 14 views in the last 24 hours, and slide started Sunday. Average low fluctuations in August were 20-25 views a day. Most of my articles are niche and have 5 star view times. When I look at today's traffic sources only 2 are googles and the rest HP or referrals. My IB articles, similar type of content haven't been touched.

I am hoping to see a rainbow at the other side.... ;-)
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  CASE1WORKERposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  welcome to the club, sorry that you are here!
  reply report

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Conversion Tracking Pixels	We may use conversion tracking pixels from advertising networks such as Google AdWords, Bing Ads, and Facebook in order to identify when an advertisement has successfully resulted in the desired action, such as signing up for the HubPages Service or publishing an article on the HubPages Service.

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Author Google Analytics	This is used to provide traffic data and reports to the authors of articles on the HubPages Service. (Privacy Policy)
Comscore	ComScore is a media measurement and analytics company providing marketing data and analytics to enterprises, media and advertising agencies, and publishers. Non-consent will result in ComScore only processing obfuscated personal data. (Privacy Policy)
Amazon Tracking Pixel	Some articles display amazon products as part of the Amazon Affiliate program, this pixel provides traffic statistics for those products (Privacy Policy)
Clicksco	This is a data management platform studying reader behavior (Privacy Policy)

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