How long did your plunge last?

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79
Bendo13posted 12 years ago
I'm curious to see how long I can expect to be in the depths of Google's sandbox.

I've noticed that people rise and fall in waves, depending on when you switched over to the subdomains, so I want to get a general idea as to how long most people are stuck in the sandbox.

For me, the climb was slow at first, after the subdomain switch... but then I saw a surge on August 25th and soon I was getting twice the views I had ever gotten before Panda..

Before Panda I was close to 1,000 views a day
After this surge I was close to 2,000 views a day

But then on September 6th I got to see my lovely plunge.. so I didn't even get two weeks to see the kind of traffic I'd really be getting if Google wasn't such a(n) ____ (insert your own word).

And I've stayed down in the dumps the whole time... It's now October 1st and I'm lucky to get 400 or 500 views in a day and that's only because lately my one article has been getting like 100+ views a day... from HubPages traffic mostly.

I noticed there was a Panda update just the other day but I guess I didn't make the team because it looks like I'm going to be sitting the bench for at least a whole month.

But when did you all rise and fall? And has anyone who plunged on the 6th gotten all their traffic back yet?
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  wheelinalloverposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I have been through every panda hit and it has changed nothing. I am still on page 1 top of page with several of my articles using keywords to find them. If I write to my niche I am found. The articles which aren't to niche I advertise. I have also found many people are finding my hubs through my hub pages nick and my corporate name. I am constantly getting title tuner suggestions which are telling me to change my title to my corporate name or add my nick to the title.
  
  I never have had lots of hits. This may be why I have not been affected by panda. It could be possible that I was not slapped because of the corporate links
  which Google loves. A Google search shows my corporation, my nick and my hub pages articles are all linked. I wonder if this means others could benefit by following my example?
  
  I am not saying to go start a corporation to increase your rankings, just find a way to be found by more than hub keywords. I know my newer (business hubs) are getting more Google hits and none of them are from keywords. My "business articles or (hubs)" niche has 5,000,000 + results and I am no where near the top.
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  Sinea Piesposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  On my hubs and my blog I have noticed that the keywords have been a key for me too. I haven't linked to my blog much at all. I think I will try writing some hubs in my niche and throw in a link or two to mine and some more powerful sites and see how it goes.
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  smcopywriteposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  i am finally seeing my work pay off after a plunge last month and the end of august. i think they are still tuning and fine tuning and in the end i hope the quality content will show through as they originally intended.
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  jcmayer777posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I consider myself pretty lucky compared to others. I had the massive surge many ad a while back. The plunge only lasted around 6-8 days. I just plunged again about 5 days ago, but I see two red arrows...I noticed the same thing when I surged from the first plunge - a couple of red arrows, then a couple more. I'm hoping I pull out of it.
  
  As much as I don't like the surge, plunge, surge, plunge routine, I feel very fortunate, as I know some never had the surge and just stayed in the big plunge state.
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  Randy Godwinposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  That would be me!
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  CMHypnoposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  And me Randy - how are you doing?
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  Randy Godwinposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  OK, CM! Hanging in there for the moment. Still losing hundreds of dollars a month since August 10 with no expectations of improvement. Live and learn!
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  frogdroppingposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Don't you mean live and slowly starve to death? Looking a bit lean there snake
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  Randy Godwinposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Not gonna starve, Froggie, I live on a farm with 5 lakes. Plenty of frog legs if I get hungry enough!
  
  Glad to hear from you Andria, I hope you are doing well in your other online writing attempts. I'm pretty disgusted with the writing business at this point, especially dealing with the PTB here on this site.
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  frogdroppingposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Good to hear it Randy. About the non-starving part. Leave the frogs alone though ...
  
  And what does PTB mean? I have a feeling you'll tell me and then I'll go 'oh ... yeah' and feel silly
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  wordscribe43posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I hear frog legs taste just like chicken, btw.
  
  I had to Google PTB and I'm pretty sure Randy was referring to "powers that be". Far too many internet acronyms these days... imho.
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  Randy Godwinposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Right you are, WS! Frogs!!! They think they are just as good as snakes these days! Mark my words, there's gonna be a war with those uppity frogs one day!
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  Bendo13posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Just want to put this up top so that more people see it... It's taken since September 6th for me to come out of the depths of the sandbox and today (October 20th - 6 weeks as others have said) my traffic has about doubled so far... 786 views in the past 24 hours...
  
  I'll try to keep you updated - hopefully I can make it back up to 2,000 views in a day and maybe higher, since I have kept writing every day. But if this doesn't last, I'll be sure to let you all know too.
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  toygurusposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah one of my other accounts came back today as well. So weird!
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  Bendo13posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah mine's at 1,035 views now in the past 24 hours... perhaps you and I switched our accounts over to the subdomain around the same time? I don't remember the exact time I did it but it appears that me and your other account are in the same rollercoaster car.
  
  Stick your hands up as we get near the top!
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  Rosie2010posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  That's great news, Bendo! My traffic is weird today... one hub that was getting 300 views a day plunged to 46 views just now, BUT another hub that was getting 40+ views on the average has gone up to 300+ views.. so my overall traffic is the same! Isn't that strange?
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  Bendo13posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  There's definitely some kind of shift in the SERPs today! A bit strange indeed.
  
  I'm up to 1,102 in the past 24 hours now.
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  Bendo13posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  1,479 views in 24 hours... *hands slowly rising*
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  Bendo13posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Up to 1,803 views now... not bad for the start of the weekend.
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  Bendo13posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Still holding strong with 1,830 views over the past 24 hours... I hope I've stepped off the sandbox rollercoaster and took a flight back to legit rankings... but we'll see.
  
  I haven't really changed anything I do in terms of how often I write, what I write, Amazon ads or anything... I've left it the same... the only thing I've done different is I no longer use the affiliate thing in my URLs when I get a few links to each of my posts.
  
  But in reality, I think it's just a matter of time and nothing I've done.
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  CMHypnoposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Congratulations Bendo13, shake that sand off and keep on surging! It's nice to know that it can happen, as my plunge has now been chugging along the bottom since early August
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  Bendo13posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Hopefully you'll pop back up soon! It seems like 6 to 7 weeks is the average length of at least the first plunge... there may be more than one though and the time will vary.
  
  Let us know when you start surging again!
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  Randy Godwinposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Still on my first plunge. Going on 3 months now with no sign of improvement.
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  IzzyMposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  (((((big hugs)))))
  
  I'm in the same boat, and I am beginning to really believe it is forever.
  All that work, all that effort, for nothing.
  
  It would have been better if I'd never reached a certain stage, because then I wouldn't have felt the fall.
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  wildernessposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Have you moved any decent hubs to a second account, and if so are they doing anything at all?
  
  That could be a way to recoup your time an work, although it will take time.
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  PaulGoodman67posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Better to leave hubs and work on other projects methinks, but Izzy and Randy are probably sick of "advice". The truth is none of know what will happen. It's difficult to know what else can be said.
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  wildernessposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You're probably right, Paul, but damn it - these are people I feel I know and like. Seeing them get the royal shaft from google isn't fun and neither is not being able to help.
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  Randy Godwinposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  And we do appreciate you guys caring about our situation, Wilderness, and for any advice y'all may have. I'll have to say, this is the most supportive community of any site I've written for. Thanks for everybody's support and concern here.
  
  I am extremely glad for those of you who were affected by the earlier Panda slaps and now have better traffic. I missed all of those earlier slaps when so many longtime and successful Hubbers lost so much money. I suppose I was due for my comeuppance.
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  IzzyMposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Nope, I cannot move any work, because they have all been copied out there. As fast as I issue DMCAs, another fills its place.
  
  Wouldn't it just be my luck that someone copied in the interim between me unpublishing and republishing?
  
  I unpublished a few hubs. I'm not convinced that they caused the fall, and would like to re-publish them at a future date.
  
  The only saving grace I can see now, is to use my HP portfolio as backlinks for future work elsewhere.
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  theherbivorehippiposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I'm with you Izzy. I reached 970 views on this main profile on October 12th, and then it dropped down to about 500 in the blink of an eye. Early this week I started to rise back up over 600...I'm currently at 396 right this minute...the lowest I've been. I'm so frustrated. I'm starting to get a bit of traffic back to main websites that were hit but not like they were. Surprisingly, my Wizzly articles are going strong (I only have five over there but traffic is good).
  
  What to do Izzy....it's this main profile seeing the worst of it...the others aren't so bad but they aren't really my money makers either. I know my traffic isn't near yours but I'm still feeling the pain.
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  IzzyMposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  If it makes you feel any better, with over 500 hubs I reached 4000 but that was on a weekend, now I am lucky to see 500 views.
  
  I think I am not suited to HP, I don't know what they don't like about my hubs. I know the Google traffic problem isn't one of HPs making, but we did have the founding member of HP tell the world that my hubs didn't read well...out loud.
  
  Actually I think that is a load of shite, personally, but there is something wrong, and I am not seeing what it is.
  
  And please, I don't want or need a load of comments about how this doesn't sound right or that isn't right, but if someone could see my subdomain, my site from a search engine's eyes, and see what is wrong, THAT info I could use.
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  Randy Godwinposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Retro((((Hugs)))), Izzy! I'm afraid we'll never know why we were hit so hard by Big G and others not. It's tough to suddenly lose hundreds of dollars a month when I've gradually gained traffic over the years.
  
  I suppose I might understand it if I backlinked all over the place, but I never had to do so because traffic kept climbing slowly before switching to the subdomains. This is my first and only--and perhaps permanent--plunge since I joined HP. Hard cheese for us, I suppose.
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  IzzyMposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Just keep on smiling, Randy!
  
  Work on other stuff, like me. I;d rather work here, but you know, beggars can't be choosers, so they say.
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  Randy Godwinposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I don't depend on my writing for a living Izzy--yeah, I know, good thing--but still it gripes my a** not knowing what I'm being penalized for. Google can't--or won't--tell me and HP staff has no clue either.
  
  The bad thing is, even if we do get our traffic back Big G can slap us down again at their pleasure. Yep, better things beckon.
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  IzzyMposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I actually listened to that group here who said we should write our HP earnings into our will.
  How stupid do you think I feel now?
  
  I was so sure that we could build and build...now I know that it is like a sand castle. It is nothing tangible. It is certainly nothing to leave in a will.
  
  If we, as writers, feel we have something to offer present or future generations, then the answer lies in print.
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  Randy Godwinposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah, I never bought into that whole "will" thing because I've seen it touted on other sites where the TOS was eventually changed to "too bad, you're dead now so we get to keep your money and articles."
  
  I enjoy writing for the sake of it, so I'll find somewhere else to put my junk if don't get weary of the whole thing first.
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  CMHypnoposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Can I join the big hugs? And don't let any of the smugs tell either of you it's because we can't write or are worthless hubbers! (((BIG HUGS)))to Randy, Izzy and all fellow plungers
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  IzzyMposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Course you can! (((Big hugs))) to us!!
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  CMHypnoposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Your little purple bird avatar looks really sad - (((big hugs)))) to the little purple bird too!
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  Randy Godwinposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Back atcha, CM! Google doesn't give a big dog f**K about those wrongfully affected with their stupid bots. I think WAG (writers against Google) and SAG (searchers against Google) organizations should be formed to combat this out of control monstrosity.
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  cameciobposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  +1
  I'm in.
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  CMHypnoposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks Bendo13, I will certainly let you know when the surge starts. It's great to have ths support of other hubbers, and despite my plunge I really love it when I hear that you guys are doing well and that your traffic has returned.
  
  Like Izzy, the thought that two years hard work is now practically useless is pretty heartbreaking as well as hurting financially.
  
  For the few smugs that are out there - go read your own work out loud and see how it sounds!
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  frogdroppingposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  CMHypno - I agree with your sentiment. Knowing that your work is dead in the water (when it wasn't previously) is pretty darn harsh. Sooner or later I'll be moving my hubs offsite, because there's no longer any value in remaining with a site that generates little more than peanuts.
  
  Having built sites of my own, and seen the difference (which is significant) in terms of income, I know like many on HP that I've have content that will actually work harder elsewhere.
  
  I also prefer being able to follow stats that are whole, and easy to analyse, which is missing (now) from the new earnings structure. Hpads doesn't (for example) show you where you're earning the most money (supposing you earn some, I no longer do).
  
  I hope that others like me find an alternative method of recouping the loss of years of hard work. We deserve it
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  CMHypnoposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I agree with you frogdropping. I have been putting most of the articles I write on my own blogs recently or other sites.
  
  I feel a sentimental attachment to this place though that I probably need to get over, as it is not the same place it was this time last year and still publish occasionally (I also read somewhere that Google likes active accounts!)
  
  I broke my one and only Wordpress site, so really need to fix it before wasting any more time here. One good thing to come out of it is that I have now finished the first draft of my science fantasy novel for older kids, so need to work on getting it published.
  
  Hope it continues to work well for you away from here frogdropping, but I do miss all you hubbers who used hang out on the forums and were so generous with your help and advice. The cold wind of an end of an era!
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  SimeyCposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  CMHypno: I think the advantage that you and the other major plungers have is that you all write quality content. Now if Google's true aim is to promote quality content then you will rise to the top eventually - it may take a few months, but I feel that all the great writers on here who are in the doldrums at the moment will be sitting pretty this time next year!
  
  Good luck to everyone in the plunge, and congrats to those who aren't! I'm in a surge cycle at the moment which seems to be lasting - but I fully expect the plunge to be just around the corner!
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  PaulGoodman67posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I agree, Simey. Google is changing things all the time. Randy was unaffected by the first Panda which hit nearly everyone else. Now he's in the dumps. Next week, Randy could be surging and the rest of us could be back in the gutter. Nobody knows. And when Google allows it, HubPages works well in terms of earnings.
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  wildernessposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  http://hubpages.com/forum/post/1839521
  
  A comment from the other side of the story.
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  theherbivorehippiposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Well if that ain't a slap in the face.
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  wildernessposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  And maybe it's an indication that things can turn around and do well after a time.
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  CMHypnoposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks for your kind words Simey - I hope that your surge surges and surges!
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Eleanor's Wordsposted 12 years ago
I plunged on 10 August, google traffic dropped to virtually nothing. For the rest of August and all of September I have had barely any traffic and no surges at all. Then, today, my traffic has suddenly returned with my hubs regaining their former positions. I had all but given up but can now see some light! Whether it will last is another matter, but for now it's looking good.
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  Bendo13posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  So a little over 7 weeks for you? I guess I'll keep hanging in there then!
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  Eleanor's Wordsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, definitely worth hanging in there, it can return when you've almost stopped believing it ever will! Although I did make a few changes, like getting rid of automated summaries (which I did about a month ago now), I personally believe any changes I made were unrelated to the upsurge I'm having today.
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  Bendo13posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah all the automated summaries were wiped out a long time about by HubPages. I finally got through all mine today and added in original summaries but even without it Google can and still will pull keywords from the body text and ignore the summary.
  
  I think it's just this schedule they put everyone through when it's a "new domain" just to see how they perform. But since we all switched over at different times, the results are all over the place.
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PaulGoodman67posted 12 years ago
I plunged for 5 or 6 days in early September. My traffic has been fine since then. There seems to be no strict pattern to it. You might have to look at altering your hubs if the plunge lasts more than 6 weeks.
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  Bendo13posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  It looks like a lot of people are on the same pattern I am... lots of people plunged on September 6th.
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  PaulGoodman67posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  August 10th was the first major plunge date. My plunge date was the 3rd Sept and I began to recover on the 8th Sept. It's difficult to be certain of the big plunge dates site wide without all the info, which HP has. Quite a few plunged on the 6th Sept though, it seems, but many others went down on other dates, I believe. And as far as I know, people are still plunging and surging, it's not stopped.
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  Bendo13posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah I think it has to do with people all having the choice to switch to the subdomains when they want.
  
  Has HubPages made the switch automatically yet and forced people over? I'm sure all those people are on the same rollercoaster.
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  IzzyMposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I don't think so, the pattern is too random. I know someone who is surging and plunging but who was in the test group.
  The only people who seem to be consistently high are those who have the extra boost of being featured authors on HP's front page.
  Or would any of them care to admit to roller-coasting?
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  WriteAngledposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I've never been featured and my hubber score never reflects what my hubs are doing. My average hub score has been around 83 for weeks now, but my hubber score has dropped from 98 last week to 92 today (which is why I no longer take any notice of either score).
  
  Quite frankly, I think the featured hubbers section is a fix, with certain people being favoured regardless.
  
  However, despite never getting any favouritism from the HP bureaucracy, I've gone from 25 views or less per day at the beginning of July to 120-180 per day at the moment. This has built up over three separate surges, with very minor dips in between.
  
  I switched to subdomain the day it became available to all HP riff-raff, not having been deemed worthy of being offered it before.
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  IzzyMposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I think, in all fairness if I remember correctly, the first group were volunteers who posted on a sticky thread, unless there was an earlier group again, but I don't think so. They tested on staff accounts if I remember correctly.
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  Silver Roseposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I too switched in mid-July - when they made it available to the "riff-raff". My account has also gone up in three distinct steps. First immediately after the switch. Then the graph levelled, then another climb from Aug 28th to Sept 6th. Then it leveled again, and then the last surge on Sept 23rd. I've never been featured anywhere either.
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  Mark Ewbieposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I was riff-raff - 14th July. The switch meant that I got some search results - first for a long time. Then 25th August my traffic doubled / trebled - from say 15 a day to about 45. Please don't mock.
  
  It's pretty much stayed at it's new 'higher' level.
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  PaulGoodman67posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  @Mark - Aww, we would never mock you, your hubs are great, the humour probably only works with a small niche of people, though, as a lot of it's specifically about HubPages issues. I am glad to hear about your "surge" however. ;-)
  
  @Izzy - Never mind the featured hubbers, I would be interested to know if there are any staff subdoms that are rollercoastering? ;-)
  
  (The featured hubbers' traffic is shown on the HubPages Success Stories page anyway, isn't it, so you can see how they are doing?)
  
  My story is similar to SR's, just with an extra 5 day plunge thrown into the mix in early Sept!
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wordscribe43posted 12 years ago
I've had three plunges now. The first one was approximately 3 weeks followed by a serious surge. The next plunge was only a couple of weeks followed by the best traffic I've ever seen (and money, too). I'm now in my third plunge and have been since last Sunday... so we'll see!

Sorry you're experiencing the dreaded fall, hopefully you will see the light of the day fairly soon.
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cameciobposted 12 years ago
@Bendo...My case is very similar with yours...
subdomain switch,
slow rise
surge on august 23
plunge on sept 6

since then nothing good happened
today is at lowest i've seen since I've published my first 5 hubs

I feel like it's a joke to even think of a recovery of any kind.I'll let my hubs as they are as a protest against Google emotional instability!
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  Bendo13posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I kind of figured that a bunch of us were rising and falling on the same days. I guess we just have to wait our turn to see when we'll rise again.
  
  My traffic right now is the lowest it's been all year, maybe even longer than that. If you do some math, on average I'm not even getting one view per hub I have a day...
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  Sinea Piesposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Can that have anything to do with seasonal reading? I mean, younger families for instance have really busy schedules around Labor Day in the northeast, anyway, because school starting. Less time to surf the web?
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lender3212000posted 12 years ago
Has anyone who experienced the September 6th traffic drop seen their traffic recover since then? If so, did you make any changes to what you were doing with your hubs or did it resolve itself?
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  Wesman Todd Shawposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  My plunge was around September 6. I've been back to whatever "normal" means for about a week now.
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2besureposted 12 years ago
When my clicks and earnings take a plunged, I go into my adsense account and change my Interest-based Ads Preference, and Third Party Ads Preference settings. When you change them from "show" or "allow" it only takes and hour or 2 to see which setting works better for you. I just experiment with it. I usually see an improvement.
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  IzzyMposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  How do you do that? I'd like to try it because my clicks and earnings are pathetic.
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  IzzyMposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Found it, its under My Account for anyone else looking.
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  2besureposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  The options "show" for interest based and allow for third party have been working very well for me. Let me know you results!
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  IzzyMposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Well, so far it's been terrible, but it was terrible with the interest-based ads enabled, so not much difference there.
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  2besureposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Go into your Google account, click on My Account. You will see Interest-based Ads Preference and Third Party Ad Preferences and an option to (edit)
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  IzzyMposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks
  
  I spent ages looking, and kept missing it, then I found it. Actually that was last night after I'd posted and 24 hours later my click rate is still awful. LOL
  
  I don;t know why I am laughing, this isn't funny anymore.
  
  Thanks anyway.
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  Sinea Piesposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Where is it?
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  IzzyMposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I tried that, and 2besure asked me to report back how it worked or otherwise. I left it changed for nearly 3 weeks, and just changed back yesterday. My earnings while it was changed went down a few cents per day, even before the October 13th slap.
  
  Look under My Account in adsense, and scroll down that page.
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  wildernessposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I've done that before, although when you only get 3 or 4 clicks per day an hour or two doesn't make it - it took a couple of weeks to decide that it wasn't for me, that I get better results letting google base ads on the viewers history.
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  Bendo13posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  What they need to give you is an option to turn off remarketing.
  
  That's where if you go to a site, they will drop a cookie or something so that now whenver you go to any site with Adsense on it.. 9 times out of 10 it's going to be an ad for that site you were just on... so you start thinking WOW these guys are everywhereeee
  
  NOPE! They're just following you around the internet until someone outbids them or you finally click the ad.
  
  The problem is, this means very irrelevant ads on your hubs and a lot of the time people have no desire to ever go back to that site. It could have been one of those sites you looked at for a few seconds.. wasn't what you wanted and left.
  
  So THAT needs to be an option so we can get back to relevant ads!
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  Sinea Piesposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  This is very interesting. A part of Google adsense I haven't learned yet. You have a hub on it by any chance?
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IzzyMposted 12 years ago
In reply to Bendo, I saw a surge back to pre-Panda levels as soon as I switched over to subdomain in mid-July.

Then on the 10th of August, Panda 2.4 plunged me.

On the 4th of September, I had a huge surge, that collapsed again on the 6th.

And I have never recovered since.
That's been over 6 weeks if we skip the 2 day surge, and nothing.

I rewrote a whole load of hub summaries (first time anything was shoved in, this time I took sometime over it) I reduced RSS feeds to relative content and one line only to reduce duplicate content issues.

I wrote a ton of new informational hubs, all with links out to quality sites.

??
What now? I dunno.
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  janderson99posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  @IzzyM - I noticed that you have 5-8 RSS feeds on many of your hubs with a sentence below the links. I would suggest removing ALL RSS feeds. Before deleting them copy the RSS details from the published hub into word - delete all the text sentences. Go to edit and paste the list of links into a text capsule on your site (with sentences removed). I followed ryankett's advice to get rid of RSS feeds (his advice since deleted) and it seemed to work for me. For new pages I use the RSS capsule to get the list - copy and edit as above and paste into a text capsule - then delete the RSS capsule. According to ryankett and others the RSS text is regarded as duplicate text copied from the source. If you have 5-8 RSS that's 8 sentences of copied text. Also the theory goes that Google keeps track of the percentage of duplicate text for all your hubs in your sub and if its above a threshold a penalty is applied to ALL your hubs. Panda targets duplication.
  
  Anyway this worked for me - may be worth a try if you have tried everything.
  In a previous thread I presented data that showed that 75% of plungers had RSS feeds, whereas only 25% of those who did not plunge used them. Hope your traffic returns soon. Cheers
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  IzzyMposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I've been kinda thinking about the rss feeds as it seems to be the only thing left to try.
  
  I reduced them to one sentence and made sure they were related to the hub topic, reduced their numbers in a lot of instances too.
  
  Thing is, I know I get traffic directly from those feeds, so I am reluctant to remove them.
  
  What I might do is 'hide' them for a week or two and see what happens.
  
  Trouble also is I have that many hubs, and a slow internet connection, so its a major job going through them all.
  
  I have also further diluted the rss percentage by writing 20 new hubs without them.
  
  But if Google is that worried about duplicate content, what are they doing about the 600 articles on the web that are all direct copies of one of mine, and most of them are placed above mine in search?
  
  I really don't understand that. The copiers even missed bits here and there off the odd sentence, so what they have up doesn't even make sense in most cases.
  
  How is their stuff OK, and mine isn't?
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  janderson99posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I know its a lot of work but removing the sentences (leaving the link) may mean you won't lose all the traffic from the related links
  for example
  ---------------------------------------------------------
  Understanding Business Finance with Online Finance Courses
  
  If you wish to run your own business, you would be well advised to take an online course dealing with understanding how business finance works.
  ------------------------------------------------------------
  becomes (with the link text (title) remaining)
  ------------------------------------------------------------
  Understanding Business Finance with Online Finance Courses
  ------------------------------------------------------
  etc.
  The only way to beat the copy cheats is to out rank them ( removing duplicates and adding backlinks etc). I have suggested HP use copy protection methods but no response to this.
  Cheers,
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  IzzyMposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I get you.
  
  I know that intext links are much more valuable in Google's eyes, but hey it might take me to next Christmas to get round all the hubs I have, not just deleting RSS feeds, but re-including the same link in the text.
  
  Honestly, sometimes my internet is so slow I could go and boil the kettle for a cup of tea while waiting on a single page to load!
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  Bendo13posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I've never used RSS feeds and I plunged... still stuck in the depths.
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  Richieb799posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I had an RSS feed on my best hub up until 2 weeks ago and I didn't see any drop in traffic on it..it still received around a 1000 views a day. I then removed it because HP was saying there was a broken link or something and I still haven't seen a difference. It is still second on Google's first page.
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  wildernessposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  On the other end of the spectrum, I have an RSS feed on each and every hub with 4-5 links in each feed and I've never plunged.
  
  There are, of course, other factors to consider. Most of my hubs are fairly long at 1500+ words and that reduces the percentage of duplication. I very seldom quote, and most hubs only have 1 or 2 Amazon links, if any. There are a few sales hubs full of Amazon, but they amount to only around 1/4 of the total hubs.
  
  RSS feeds may play a part, but they are far from the only cause and as Izzy points out they can produce a fair amount of traffic.
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  Bendo13posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I use Amazon often... but if you search for a term on Google where you use to be on page one and look at what is actually ranking up top now you might be surprised how many ads they have compared to text.
  
  I used to be ranked #1 for squat jumps... go look at the top 5 or so pages... some of them have maybe 300 words if that and then 3 to 5 ads all over the page.
  
  So I'm not sure if that matters or not.
  
  My mistake... the top page for squat jumps right now has a whopping 138 words of content.. 5 ads from doubleclick and the rest is just a bunch of related content.
  
  I have no idea how that page is of any value but it's #1 in Google's eyes.
  
  The second page has 123 words of content, 4 ads and some links to related content...
  
  See the amazing job Google is doing? They just seem to want big companies up top... seems like the corporate world is just taking over the net and spoon feeding us garbage with the silver spoon Google gave them.
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  Jean Bakulaposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I use RSS feeds, and I think it helps keep people looking at my hubs. I have tried to keep them on the one sentence setting though, depending on how it looks on the hub. My hubs tend to be long though, I usually have from 1800-3000 words, and my topics vary. I don't think they hurt me.
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  Bendo13posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I'm curious why you don't allow comments on your hubs? Have you found this helps you in some way?
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Randy Godwinposted 12 years ago
August 10 plunge with no spikes since then.
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  CMHypnoposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Still plunging with you Randy! I have been implementing the suggestions given to me by HP - no difference in traffic figures.
  
  But I have stopped stressing and just use my time in other ways - it means that I have finished the first draft of my book which is great! And when I write an article I just put it on one of my own blogs or another site instead.
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SirDentposted 12 years ago
Sept. 6 plunge and still waiting to make it back. Went from 415 views on Sept. 5 to 82 views on Sept. 6.
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paradigmsearchposted 12 years ago
Alas! It is raining blue arrows for me. This weekend can't be over soon enough.
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CASE1WORKERposted 12 years ago
I was also riff raff- changed at the first available date for us common people. Had a slow upswing that gathered momentum and then on 23rd September Mr G turned the tap off and now on 20 views a day ( from 380) bitter and twisted? me? No, of course not. I am moving the odd hubs that no one read and reducing amazon capsules by removing them from my information hubs, and then will just leave this to sort itself out. I will of course reappear in a different ID!
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earnestshubposted 12 years ago
My hubs have been climbing steadily for 2 months now after a big lift in August, I think it will probably improve for others as well, it just isn't happening uniformly.
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toygurusposted 12 years ago
My first plunged 3rd Sept and I began to recover on the sept 8th. I plunged again on Sept 23rd and haven't recovered
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STAFF
Paul Edmondsonposted 12 years ago
There is much more distributed promotion than it appears most people realize. One way to see how much you're getting is to check backlinks from within HubPages. Related Hubs, listings on topic pages, and hub interlinking tool are some of the ways we do it.
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  IzzyMposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yes the interlinking on HP is brilliant, and valuable to certain extent, for some of us, it seems.
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  wildernessposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  There certainly is! WMT shows around 23,000 links coming to my measly 108 hubs from inside HP but from outside my subdomain.
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  Bendo13posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  What is it that you're trying to say?
  
  I love that hubbers come to my writing in a variety of different ways, but I've checked my analytics and the plunge is all from Google dropping out.
  
  Perhaps you were pointing out something else though?
  
  If you were referring to the 100+ views a day I'm getting on my one article... that's because it's rated as a 100 and if someone clicks hubs up top, it's usually the first one for best and hot...
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  David 470posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Wait, related hubs are considered backlinks? I thought that was just their to help readers to get similar topics. Never thought they were considered backlinks.
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  wildernessposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Google now considers any link from outside our own subdomain to be an "external" link. Those links from the "related hubs" section on someone's hub that point to one of your hubs are thus higher quality external links and more valuable than they used to be.
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paradigmsearchposted 12 years ago
I do believe that the new-week traffic upsurge has already started!

Reference Note: Sunday, ~1:00 PM, HP time.
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  Stacie Lposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  my traffic has dropped to a new low..
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Ms Chievousposted 12 years ago
I am an August 10th "plunger" and I have not seen any surges whatsoever in the last month and half Google webmaster stated the change in traffic was not from anything Google. There was mention in the webmaster letter of reasons for change in traffic. It follows...

"If you've experienced a change in ranking which you suspect may be more than a simple algorithm change, there are other things you may want to investigate as possible causes, such as a major change to your site's content, content management system, or server architecture. For example, a site may not rank well if your server stops serving pages to Googlebot, or if you've changed the URLs for a large portion of your site's pages"

I have forwarded the letter to the HP team to see if they have any comments.
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  Randy Godwinposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Sounds like you have the same scenario I do. I received the same response from Scroogle. No spikes, merely low traffic and very little from them. Clusterf**k! And I really have no confidence in HP staff prognostications at this point.
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IzzyMposted 12 years ago
I read some forums threads the other day. You know how it is, you Google something, and one site links to another and before you know it you are totally lost in some alleyway. So sorry I can't link them here, although I could probably search my browser cache if anyone else wants to read them.

Point was, it was a load of pro's talking about Google and Panda.

There was report after report of sites that normally get hundreds of thousands if not millions of views per day, getting slaughtered by Panda.

These are the big guys in the business who know what they are doing. A lot of them had to reduce staff so come on, they are not one of us.

What interested me were the comments talking about the changes they made to their sites - they got rid of weak content (1000s of pages), they reduced ads or changed placements, or whatever. These guys changed loads of stuff and gradually through the summer, their rankings improved. Then WHAM! Panda 2.5 took away all their rankings again, worse than before.

Other talked of the roller-coaster we hubbers seem to be on now, and say they are up one minute, down the next, just just us, with no apparent cause.

Yet others piped in that they had been Pandalized, made no changes and yet their traffic had returned.

There seems to be no rhyme nor reason to all of this, and I am beginning to think making changes to hubs will make no difference whatsoever.

As a side note to all of this, these big sites also reported that over the summer they have seen a huge drop in adsense earnings, just like we have, and not through lack of traffic. I have the same traffic more or less that I had a year ago, but with lesser earnings.

That's an Adsense issue and quite separate to rankings which is what we are basically talking about, but interesting to note, just the same.
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  Bendo13posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I swear that this is one of the big reasons that CTR's have dropped for AdSense...
  
  http://www.google.com/ads/innovations/remarketing.html
  
  It's great for the marketer because their brand gets seen a lot but they could care less if they get a ton of clicks... they just want to be seen often and be seen as some huge company when they're not. All they care about is that one click they get to get the customer to come back to them...
  
  So you could have someone see that same stinking ad 10 to 20 times all over your hubs, no matter which one they view, and never click... but yet you could have had relevant ads on there and probably gotten a click or two out of that one person.. but no.. they were being remarketed to.
  
  Hurts the people using AdSense, but it helps the people using AdWords.
  
  But I'm not going through and doing any huge changes to my 500+ hubs anymore... there's no telling what triggers this other than time.
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  wildernessposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You can disallow the check box in adsense to allow audience information to determine ads. I believe this takes into account the history of the reader - might that block this type of thing?
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  Bendo13posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Someone pulled this from the AdSense help:
  
  "You can opt out of showing ads that are based on user interest and demographic categories (for example, 'sports enthusiasts' or 'inferred age:18-34'). In turn, Google will not use visitation information from your sites to help create interest and demographic categories. However, you cannot opt out of showing ads to users based on their previous interactions with the advertiser, such as visits to an advertiser's website. "
  
  Looks like you can't control it...
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  wildernessposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  That would be a different checkbox than the one I'm thinking of, but nevertheless looks like my question was answered.
  
  A good thing for the advertiser and google; probably a bad thing for us.
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  Bendo13posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah I think you were talking about the third party one?
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  wildernessposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Well, either "Do not show ads based on user interest categories. Visitation information from my sites will not be used to help create interest categories."
  
  or "Allow advertisers to use their audience information to deliver more relevant ads to my site".
  
  I have disallowed the first one in the past and felt it was a losing strategy; I've unclicked it again after seeing your post to see if it changes anything. My CPC has just gone to almost nothing the last few months - maybe that will help some.
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  Bendo13posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah I have both unchecked at the moment... but it makes sense that Google would care more about making the people that pay them (the advertisers) happy than they would the people they pay (us).
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  wildernessposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I think you're right - I can't really see google coming up with a new program to make money from their advertisers and then letting affiliates opt out of showing those ads.
  
  Either way, though, it's worth a try to see if I can get that CPC up some. Like I said, it was a losing strategy in the past, but this is now and things have changed, so it's worth a try, anyway.
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  2besureposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  My thoughts bento!
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SirDentposted 12 years ago
So now I need to know how to find backlinks on HubPages. Anyone who knows can give me an asnwer.
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  wildernessposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Do you mean backlinks to your hubs? For that I use SEOBOOK for Firefox and the Webmaster Tools from google.
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  SirDentposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Paul Deeds wrote about backlinks within hubpages. I am wondering how to find them here. I am unable to use the Webmaster tools from Google because I do not own a domain.
  
  Edit: Paul Edmonson. I got my Pauls mixed up. Sorry Paul Deeds.
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  wildernessposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  No, but you "own" a subdomain, just as I do. It is my only foray onto the web, but WMT gave me an account with no trouble.
  
  It shows where all the backlinks within HP are. Some are on the "best hubs" section on HP and many are on the "related hubs" section supplied by HP for each hub written. There are a lot of places HP has used to give us all a lot of backlinks - some of my hubs are showing well over 100 backlinks from within HP and my subdomain as a whole shows something like 23,000.
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Paul Edmondsonposted 12 years ago
You can claim your subdomain in google webmaster tools. There's an entry in the learning center on how to do it. You can also use yahoo site explorer.
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  SirDentposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks Paul (not Deeds) Edmondson. I even spelled your last name wrong in my edit above.
  
  Thank you also Wilderness for the free advice.
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  wildernessposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Hah! Free advice is generally worth what you paid for it!
  
  Seriously, though, do get a WMT account - there's a lot of useful stuff there. It took about 2 weeks for it to get all the information it needs, but it was worth the wait.
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  SirDentposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I am trying to find the page in the Learning Center but have yet to find it. I will go to Google and try there and do what I can.
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  Bendo13posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  If you already have the Analytics code set up on HubPages, it's soo quick to verify your subdomain on WMT. I just did it last night.
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  SirDentposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I just figured that out then read this. It really is very easy to do it now since we have the subdomains.
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seamistposted 12 years ago
Post Panda spike the end of August with traffic reaching pre-Panda levels. Plunge on Sept 6 with views down to less than 200 per day. Spike about a week ago for five days with views between 1200 to 1500 per day. It lasted approximately 5 days, and not it is back down to less than 200 views per day. Sickening.
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toygurusposted 12 years ago
I really think people who have plunged and see no hope of recovery should start diversifying and maybe create their own website. It may be a sign.I love hubpages but I have an account on squidoo and right now that platform seems more stable than hubpages for me. I am getting 5000 views per week over there. If traffic returns sometime in the future to my hubs I will continue writing for hubpages, if it doesn't I will be putting my content elsewhere because it seems to ranking fine on other platforms and my own websites. I'm sure it will but right now my account on hubpages is not stable. I try to put up the best content I can and try to write a minimum of 1000 words articles. The problem on hubpages doesn't have to do with content don't let anyone convince you otherwise. It's not your fault. If something is not working for you at the moment try something else. Even though you may have lost traffic, you have not lost your ability to produce good content that people want to read.
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  SirDentposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  This is not good advice from someone new to HubPages. if I went to Squidoo and opened an account could I make it to having thousands of hits in less than two months? Of course we know the answer.
  
  I have tried a few things with my hubs to see if I could get me traffic back to where it used to be or better. I have decided to let things falls as they may. It will eventually sort itself out.
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  toygurusposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  SirDent, I'm sorry I didn't mean to give people bad advice. I just meant we shouldn't put all our eggs in one basket. There is nothing we can do to tweak our hubpages at the moment because nobody knows what we are doing wrong. It's beyond our control. I have more than one account on hubpages and my other account seems to be just fine. Of course that account is more than a couple months old so maybe it has gained authority with google.
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  SirDentposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  This is more like it. Older accounts will always do better because they have been seasoned with age. Of course this only works, in the long run, if the content is good.
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  seamistposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  @ Toygurus
  
  Thank you for what you said " The problem on hubpages doesn't have to do with content don't let anyone convince you otherwise. It's not your fault. If something is not working for you at the moment try something else." I totally agree. Whatever is going on with the crazy spikes and plunges is not our fault. I believe it is something outside of are ability to change. You need to be commended for your comment!
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  toygurusposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  @Seamist
  Thanks.
  I was just trying to say it wasn't the content causing the problems. It's something else. My content is ranking fine on other platforms which I was trying to illustrate. I'm up to 20,000 views a week on other platforms and my websites. It's the holiday time and traffic has exploded everywhere. My hubpages account received 4 visits yesterday. And if I didn't diversify, I would be stuck right now.
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BobbiRantposted 12 years ago
Everyone's been waiting for the 'return' for How Many months now? Interesting!
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  PaulGoodman67posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  August the 10th until now is nearly 2 months. The worst of the rollercoasting seems to have died off a little (with some increased turbulence around Sept 23rd) - although that is certainly no consolation for those who are stuck at the bottom.
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  toygurusposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  People think they are in the sandbox. Here's what happens when you have been sandboxed as I understand it. When new content is produced it generally is pushed up higher in the search engine.If you have older content or your offsite factors on your website are changing(such as incoming links are increasing or decreasing) google has to reevalute the rankings. Google needs room in its database so it moves you from the rankings into a waiting list for reevalution. The sandbox occurs when your website has changed dramatically. Google will eventually respider(revisit) your pages and you should be reentered into the rankings. Usually, this takes up to 3 months for newer websites.
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CASE1WORKERposted 12 years ago
Still plunged- the lowlight was this morning when I got 15 hits for 159 hubs! way to go or what!
I have opened a second account in which I will publish just history hubs- no amazon, no e bay and no linking by me to anywhere- just letting nature take its course! It is an experiment to see what might happen in the very long run.
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  iQwestposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I'm with you, CASE1WORKER. My traffic has been absolutely horrendous and continues to be. About the only traffic I'm receiving these days is referral traffic from other Hubs on like subjects.
  
  In terms of organic page views from Google searches, I'm currently getting less than 10 a day on over 90 Hubs.
  
  In contrast, I'm up to 30 lenses over at Squidoo (only 27 are indexed to this point), most just written over the past two months, and I'm just shy of having received 40,000 page views since August 1, 2011 to present (over 35,000 page views from search engine traffic).
  
  During the same period, with 90 Hubs, most written prior to August 1, 2011, I've only received 8,000 page views (with only 4,000 page views coming from search engine traffic).
  
  As I've noted on previous posts, my writing might not be considered very good on HubPages, but it's going to be just as poor over at Squidoo.
  
  So, to reiterate, from August 1, 2011 to present, I've received just over 8,000 page views for 90 Hubs while, over at Squidoo, I've received nearly 40,000 page views for 30 lenses during the exact same period (data extracted from Google Analytics).
  
  Hmmm .....
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  CASE1WORKERposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I have done a little at Squidoo and yes I am getting slightly more traffic but they are new and my stuff aways seems to mature over time.
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  toygurusposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Same thing for me. I am getting about 5000 views on squidoo per week and about 35 per week on hubpages. I have stopped writing hubpages ever since.
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Mrvoodooposted 12 years ago
Almost a month now with very little traffic, and no surges what-so-ever. Another month like this and I'll begin moving content to sites that are more stable.

I now refer to this year as the year that HubPages killed Halloween.
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  PaulGoodman67posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Thats pretty grim news, Mr V. If I were in your shoes, though, I would be tempted to just write for another site in the mean time, though, rather than moving everything. There is still a good chance that you will recover at some point, methinks.
  
  I pretty gave up writing on HubPages during the Summer as I was weary of the Panda death grip and couldn't see an end to it. I sometimes wish that I'd continued writing now that my figures are post-surge. Having said that, putting together stuff on Blogger and Wordpress was good experience though.
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  David 470posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I basically gave up on HubPages in the summer 2011, but never quit completely.
  
  Now I am receiving 1000s of views because I did not give up. August 24th or so was redemption for me.
  
  I'm telling you hubbers, HubPages has a lot of potential, you just need to understand how search engine trends work on your niche and use the right keywords. Make sure your keywords are highly searched words.
  
  Quite frankly, I think a lot of new comers may think the Panda is the cause of low traffic - which could be the case, but honestly, there are many other factors involved as well.
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  IzzyMposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Are you suggesting that some of us have plunged because we haven't got a clue?
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  David 470posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  No, I am referring to some people who are new to HubPages (ones that signed up after panda) and don't get a lot of traffic and blame it on Google Panda. But there are other variables besides the panda.
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  psycheskinnerposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You are also suggesting, by making a blanket statement, that those who did plunged just need to use the right keywords. And I don't think that is true. I plunged and then rocketed and am now doing great. And I didn't change a single word during that time.
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  David 470posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I'm not saying Panda is not the case for some people who lost traffic or can not gain traffic easily, but I am saying that in some cases, there are other factors involved. These factors include search engine trends of the niche, SEO of the title and content, seasonal search trends, etc. A person needs to first check how those variables come into play then look at how Google views their content.
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  cameciobposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I think you are right about SEO techniques, like the use of keywords, or trend that can make a lbig difference in one's traffic. I also just receantly reinforced my belief that the more content you write, the sooner and often you get Google to crawl your pages.
  The thing with some of us, the plungers, is that we cannot figure out why we had good traffic at some point and now it's gone.
  If I was able to answer this question I would be able to fix my traffic.
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  David 470posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  "I also just receantly reinforced my belief that the more content you write, the sooner and often you get Google to crawl your pages."
  
  It's funny you say that because I have been thinking the same thing lately. I know we have sub domains, but it seems that publishing more hubs affects my other hubs as well.
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  cameciobposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  After panda, I wrote very few hubs. Even after subdomain switch I didn't bother to write more. That was a loser's strategy. It was like telling everybody that I'm not interested anymore. Even my 2 or 3 article I put up were not keyword optimized, not too original, were on poor subjects and so on...I didn't even commented on other hubs. When google crawled my subdomain it saw the same thing over and over. Nothing new to report. Conclusion: My account is not interesting anymore. And it stopped crawling.
  This is only my theory but I have been reading about this subject recently and it looks like me. I saw your previous post saying that you didn't stop writting.
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  David 470posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I wrote a few hubs after sub-domains and realized they were working for me when my traffic went higher than last fall 2010.
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  PaulGoodman67posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I don't think anyone knows for sure why some people have slumped, except maybe Google. It could just be that they are carrying out tests and have removed you from the search results while they do so? Who knows? Google always justifies itself by saying that they are doing things to meet the searchers' needs, they never seem to express a great deal of sympathy towards the folks who actually provide all the info that Google directs people to with their search engine!
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  cameciobposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Maybe they just want to make more and more money...
  Can they programme their algo to serve content that has more high paid ads?
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CMHypnoposted 12 years ago
I didn't think that it was possible, but my plunge seems to have plunged even lower this weekend.

As I have tweaked and tweaked, not lot more I can do really than just leave them, and walk away and do something more productive until the traffic improves again (if it does)
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codehubposted 12 years ago
for me, the bottom fell out a few days ago, from low to zero traffic,

Does anyone think there is a difference between focusssed topic profiles and general random content profiles ?
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  CMHypnoposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I write across a lot of different topics, so it may be a factor. However, I don't think that you can shuffle hubs between accounts, so I would have to create new accounts, unpublish hubs and then repost them as a new hub with a new url.
  
  Doing this would lose links, PR and any age benefits, and to be quite honest if I was going to move a hub, it would now be onto one of my own blogs. Another thing that deters me is the number of times some of them have been copied across the web by content thieves (it seems to be impossible to get it all taken down), and I don't want to get pinged for duplicate content for my own work if I move it.
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codehubposted 12 years ago
Its been said elswhere that with certain types of site, google actively seeks to identify active profiles.
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Victoria Lynnposted 12 years ago
squidoo, huh! Wow! What's that site like? Similar to Hubpages? Do you think Hp will improve? I lover the writing community, but I would like for my articles to do well.
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toygurusposted 12 years ago
It seems that this year google seems to be testing out several algorithms. Very few websites that have been pandalized have been able to come out of it. The way Panda works is if certain criteria are met then a sitewide penalty is issued. Perhaps some of our subdomains are now triggering the panda penalty that was triggered on the main domain.

I'm not sure how many people are follow the Panda 2.5 update which was released on Sept 28. Google's panda algorithm doesn't always work and sets off false positives.Apparently, DaniWeb,a popular website, was unfairly hit by the latest algorithm changes. Google has had to make changes to their algorithm to accommodate Daniweb.Now, Matt Cutts says that there will be tweaks in the coming weeks. He posted this on twitter - "Weather report: expect some Panda-related flux in the next few weeks, but will have less impact than previous updates."

http://twitter.com/#!/mattcutts/statuse … 7375398912
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Victoria Lynnposted 12 years ago
I've just been reading success stories at squidoo--several hundred dollars after 6 months or so with only about 40 hubs. But maybe HP was like that before Panda, I don't know. I don't know enough about how all this works.
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WriteAngledposted 12 years ago
I have a lens on Squidoo which is on a similar topic to my best performing hub. I get 50x as many views on my hub as on the lens. The lens has not earned a single penny.

A second lens is excluded from search results, both on Squidoo and in search engines. No explanation is given for why this might be the case, nor is any guidance given as to how I can change the situation. I'm merely told, I am free to promote the lens in other ways - whoopee!

This experience was sufficient for me to decide not to waste time over there. I hated the whole tone of the place anyway, especially the system by which earnings depend on rank. It seems even less transparent than the HP Ads programme!
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  EmpressFelicityposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I don't like the ranking system either but at the moment, it actually seems preferable to the arbitrary plunging of entire subdomains that's occurring here. So I'm moving some of the hubs on my "plunged" account over to Squidoo, to see how they fare.
  
  One thing I do like about Squidoo is the choice of capsules and the fact that they positively encourage you to put Amazon stuff on your lenses.
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Victoria Lynnposted 12 years ago
Thanks, WriteAngled. Glad to hear that. I already have my heart invested in HubPages, so I'm really, really glad to hear you say that. I like the tone of HubPages, and the writers, and I do feel that HP is always trying to improve. I hope so, at least. I'm going to keep on keeping on!
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  toygurusposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I'm pretty sure you can be successful with either one if you stick with it and do your very best. If you just put up one article on either site you are not going to be successful on either site. Once you have chosen a platform you need to learn the ins and outs of it. Putting up a squidoo page is a lot different than putting up a hubpage. Since you have already chosen hubpages stick with it for at least six months. Squidoo and hubpages are just tools. There are a set of limitations with any set of tools. Great content is great content. It doesn't matter if it's on squidoo or hubpages. Good luck Victoria, I'm sure you will find success with hubpages if you keep at it.
  
  However, this is not a debate against which tool is better. Both are great. It's just that some people that have content on both hubs and squidoo are at the moment receiving more traffic to their squidoo pages with similar content, proving that the plunge is not cause by inadequate content which some hubbers believe is the case. We are trying to solve why the plunges are occurring for some accounts.
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michifusposted 12 years ago
I really cant understand why squidoo is rated more highly by Google and gets more visitors. I hate the look of the site as a reader, and it seems to be full of people using the medium just to get backlinks. From the squids I have looked at, most appear to be of low quality and jam packed full of ads/amazon etc. Quality is low in many cases.

For the reader it is far inferior to hubpages, yet it seems to have escaped the same penalties.
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Greekgeekposted 12 years ago
Like every other open publishing site, there's some good content and some bad. The last time I checked, I had a lens with PR6, and quite a few PR4.

I pull in about 15,000 visitors a week over there, mostly on ancient Greece and Greek mythology, video game fan-geekery and graphics resources, with the occasional weird science, product review or fluff article. Just to show that one can actually get visitors on something besides cupcakes!

For serious writing, I hate their default theme, which is one minor reason I've started testing the waters here again. However, one can switch to some of the more subtle themes and avoid the odd graphics. Anyway, Google's looking for content; it doesn't particularly care what the site logo looks like if people are finding content that meets their needs.

Also, Google's looking for on-page architecture (Hubpage's lack of H3s may hurt a little), site architecture, things like cross-linking and the hierarchical categories tree and even speed of page load (in which Hubpages should surely win). Google is looking for visitor interaction and experience on a site, too. For good and ill, web 2.0 is predicated on interactive pages with buttons to poke, quizzes and polls to take, and social media integration, and I think Google is starting to reward visitor interaction.

But anyway, this is getting far, far from Google Sandbox and plunge questions. I recommend checking Quantcast.com from time to time and setting it to "six months" to see how Hubpages is faring. It's made up a lot of ground, but I don't expect it to be wildly different from comparable article publishing sites. All of them face the same dilemma, and all have imperfect solutions: how to filter out spam, junk, fishy links and duplicate content, without impeding the flow of publishing by writers with content to offer.
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codehubposted 12 years ago
these are amazing figures, i've never seen that kind of traffic in my analytics anywhere, must try new receipe
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SirDentposted 12 years ago
I noticed about 20% increase in my views over the last 24 hours comparing to the same time period one week ago.
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thejeffriestubeposted 12 years ago
I'll let you know once it's over. LOL
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  janderson99posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  For me deleting Amazon and RSS capsules has increased traffic 400%.
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  Bendo13posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Hmm.. I'm reluctant to drop Amazon because that's another paycheck...
  
  How many people have seen an increase JUST because they dropped only Amazon?
  
  And how many people rose back to the top without dropping Amazon?
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  Randy Godwinposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I've dropped quite a few Amazon products from my hubs with no increase in traffic as a result. The same for deleting RSS capsules and for keywords which may appear too often for Google's bots, even if the words are often needed to describe a repair process.
  
  I now have no idea what the monopoly wants.
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  SirDentposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  They want your soul. Nothing more and nothing less. Of course I am only joking.
  
  My traffic has picked up slightly. It is almost up to where it was 3 years ago but no where near it was pre-panda. I also dropped Amazon ads and RSS feeds along with a few other links pointing at some of my other hubs. I imagine time will tell.
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  Randy Godwinposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Not mine, it's bereft of google traffic for the most part. I hope they eventually get penalized themselves for those they've harmed with their stupid Panda slaps. I do mean that sincerely!
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  Aficionadaposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I feel the same way, even though I've escaped the slap so far.
  
  I think someone should organize a Boycott Google Day or Two - or Week. Use other search engines only and give them a chance to see what it's like to have your traffic jerked away from you without explanation.
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  Randy Godwinposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I too wish everyone would boycott them for a few days, AF. But it will never happen. Money talks as usual!
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  janderson99posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  My hubs are information based, not direct 'selling' hubs and I had used the Amazon ads as an added extra. Also I only used a simple list of 5-8 items not single items. My guess is that using Amazon may cause a slight drop in traffic via page rank, but that this can be controlled by careful placement and selection and not 'overdoing it' [ Hubpages already has an ad count test for Amazon ]. Removing Amazon definitely boosted my traffic. Responses are likely to vary dependent on a whole host of things including article length. The new Ad Program changes with an extra Adsense ad on the page may also change things as well. [Ad density above the fold etc.]
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  toygurusposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Hmm thanks. I don't have any amazon or rss modules on my hubs that are not receiving any traffic.
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mythbusterposted 12 years ago
I think I'm still drowning lol
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dungeonraiderposted 12 years ago
Something happened for me today with google, not plunge-related, but noticeable 'dungeonraider on hubpages' gains on search engine.
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thejeffriestubeposted 12 years ago
Dammit, it's too late. Now they know about it!
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SirDentposted 12 years ago
I just checked my analytics and saw that my search engine traffic is at 70%. Before the panda slap it was around 88 to 89%.

After checking my traffic sources I also found that I am getting more from yahoo and almost as much from Bing over the last 30 days compared to Google.
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  Bendo13posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  That doesn't surprise me one bit!
  
  I get more traffic from hubpages.com than I do from google.com anymore. I guess if you added up all the other Google URLs for other countries they might be giving me more traffic but come on.
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  Randy Godwinposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Similar here. Apparently, the big G has penalized some of us for, as of yet, unknown reasons. Unless of course, you believe Paul E's explanation of "awkward writing styles" being the culprit causing the sudden loss of traffic for some of us.
  
  I don't think the trouble we are going to by revamping our articles--removing ads, RSS capsules, links with duplicate introductory sentences--helps at all. Too bad HP staff themselves don't have a clue either.
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  IzzyMposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  On my new account, the one I set up just to try and get round the slap, I am getting proportionately more Google traffic than I get on this one - and that account is only weeks old!
  Oh and I already have two hubs on page 1 of Google (at the bottom admittedly) and I write them in the same 'awkward' style as I write on this username.
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  Randy Godwinposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Gasp! You surely cannot be suggesting Paul insulted us for nothing, Izzy?
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  toygurusposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I am pretty sure it has nothing to do with an awkward style of writing.
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  IzzyMposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  And what's more, I don't think I have an awkward style of writing!
  
  The other account also has Amazon capsules, will have Ebay capsules when I put them on, and links instead of rss feeds though I am still not convinced that rss feeds have anything to do with the slap.
  
  If you think about it, it takes its text from the summary box, which in normal sites is the description tag, and every search engine out there that lists them use the same summary which must be duplicated content, perhaps duplicated thousands of times.
  Same with rss feeds, and even blogger comes with a built-in rss feed, and that takes part of the content and shares it far and wide.
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  CASE1WORKERposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I honestly think the old accounts are sandboxed- I have started a new one but it will take a while to build- I am hopeful that this account will do a gradual rise (ever the optimist) or alternativey rise like a phoenix on 23rd March which is the 6 month anniversary of the plunge!
  I dont think HP know what to do and it is easier to quote poor authorship as a cause than anything else.
  Yes, there will be more plungers and maybe Paul himself will or has plunged? I don't wish it on anyone I just think the sub domain switch had more to it than many of us understood.
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  IzzyMposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I'm hoping the sandbox only lasts 3 months! (Didn't I read somewhere that is the average time it lasts?)
  In which case I should be out by early November, in time for Christmas.
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  viryaboposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I hope so (that the sandbox only lasts 3 months). December may turn out better for us, fingers/toes crossed.
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  CASE1WORKERposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  i shall celebrate if this happens as you went in it before me! Just wondering, like everyone else, why we went in!
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  CMHypnoposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I'm beginning to think its because I'm a Brit LOL! Maybe Google doesn't like 'English English'
  
  For Paul to say that the plungers have an 'awkward writing style' is just a cop out. I may be no Dickens or Tolstoy, but I am far from the poorest writer on the site, and most of the other plungers I know about are really good writers.
  
  Also, if we all have such 'awkward writing styles' how come we all seem to have such a high hubber score?
  
  In pre-subdomain times there seemed to be more of a sense of everyone being part of a community and contributing to the greater good. Now if you plunge or have a problem you just get shot down for being a c**p writer
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  CASE1WORKERposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I agree, perhaps we will have to learn to speak and spell American!
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  SirDentposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I believe HP is doing all they can to help get traffic back to normal. Google is so secretive about so much they are doing that it is hard to figure out what's going on. It seems to me if they would let large sites such as HP in on what is going on and allow them to adjust. After all, large sites with lots of info also pay Google bills and make them money.
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  Randy Godwinposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  "Doing all they can" could just be wondering what's going on like the rest of us, Dent. They didn't do too well preventing the first of the Panda hits even though they knew there were hubs which needed to be removed from the site. Sorry, when they give me a reason to trust them again I will do so.
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  toygurusposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Actually I do feel that hubpages and hubbers in general can do a bit more. It is obvious that these cases are not isolated and have nothing to do with awkward styles of writing. Rather than blaming people or their content, it would be just as easy to conduct a little experiment. Gather a small sample size of profiles from those hubbers who say they are not receiving any traffic. Then gather another small sample size of those hubbers who say they haven't experienced any traffic volatility . Find out if these profiles have anything in common. If we are doing something wrong this experiment could help us figure out what we are doing wrong instead of blanketed statements like improve your content and stop keyword stuffing or remove all amazon capsules and rss feeds. Pointing the finger is not helping anyone and is just making people more frustrated.
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  Randy Godwinposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Supposedly, HP staff already ran a series of such comparisons including reading hubs aloud to other staff, according to Paul E. My hubs didn't fare too well with those being audibly assaulted, according to reports.
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  seamistposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  @ Toygurus
  
  I wholeheartedly am in agreement with everything you've said. All I can imagine is that they view the plungers as an isolated group. Since HP recieves 40% of our revenue, if plunges were happening overall to their traffic stats, I would think we would see alot more concern about their income. However, I think these trends will eventually affect the majority of hubbers.
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  seamistposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  The seesawing plunges and surges just doesn't make sense. Either the content is good or it is not. How can traffic go from less than 200 visitors one day to over 1600 visitors a day within 24 hours and then plunge again in four to five days? I think they know more than they are telling us or else they'd be alot more worried about everything. I've even wondered if maybe Paul is planning on selling the site and starting anew with something else.
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IzzyMposted 12 years ago
Well I just did some reading up on it, and it would seem that inaction could mean being in the sandbox for up to a year.

The way to get out of the sandbox is through link building.

You are telling Google you are not a spam site with continuing incoming links.

I think even Paul suggested renewing backlinks gained under the old domain name before we became subdomains.

I haven't done any link building since the new subdomain came in. Guess that should keep me busy for a while!
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IzzyMposted 12 years ago
I just found this - first time I have heard this advice but sounds intriguing!

Are there any other ways to get out of the Sandbox faster?

Here is another tip you might want to consider, even though it will not get you any backlinks.
Install a Google toolbar on your browser, usually with Firefox. Then in the "Add-Ons" section go to the "Google Toolbar" options and where it says "Help us improve Firefox and Google Toolbar" tick the box marked "Send usage statistics to Google". Now your browser will send back information to Google about every website that you have visited and if you now go and simply visit your own site Google will have been made aware of its existence. But it is not a sure-fire way to get around the problem, good link building should always be the first option to consider.

Taken from http://doorwaypage.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=88
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  Aficionadaposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I agree this is intriguing, and I would certain not want anyone to skip over this possibility.
  
  I installed the Google toolbar some time ago to check PageRank. I didn't like the way it operated, and so I turned off the PR part - but I still have the toolbar. I use Internet Explorer (I know, I know...) and I am not 100% certain that there was anything similar to the checkbox that the article mentions when I installed the toolbar; it has been awhile and my memory is fuzzy.
  
  But so far I have not experienced the plunge. In fact, today is my highest traffic ever. I don't know whether the toolbar is related to my traffic in any way, but it's a pretty simple installation and it may be worth using, especially for anyone who has tried other tweaks without much success.
  
  PS - I'm not very good at link-building.
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Aficionadaposted 12 years ago
One more thing about the Google toolbar:

This may not have any bearing on anything whatsoever, but sometimes I visit my profile page and the forums when I am not signed in to HubPages. A fairly decent number of times, in fact. Would those show up to Google differently from the signed-in visits, or would they be the same, since they are on the same computer?
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psycheskinnerposted 12 years ago
I am not longer plunging, but soaring. But blaming it on writing style still really annoys me. It is like the doctor not being able to diagnose the illness and just deciding you are a hypochondriac. It's a cop out and the writers here dealing with this problem deserve better. At the very least work out exactly what the difference is. Passive voice, long sentences???

I don't buy it. It fails to explain why I plunged (for over a month to basically zero) and then soared with exactly the same hubs and exactly the same word-for-word content.
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  CASE1WORKERposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I don't think there is any explanation! It is just rather wearing!
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  seamistposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I agree with you, and somehow I can't muster up the motivation to make changes that aren't guaranteed to work or write more hubs with no explanations for what's going on.
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psycheskinnerposted 12 years ago
I didn't do anything and the problem went away for me. I wonder if making lots of changes can cause people to think something worked when it was just a coincidence....
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  wordscribe43posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I have the same thought about the coincidence. I wrote about that on another thread. I have previously thought I've figured out the reason for my plunges after tweaking and seeing traffic gains. But, alas the gains were only short-lived. I don't think there was a cause and effect going on, really.
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  EmpressFelicityposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I totally agree. For the amount of money I make here, it's just not worth obsessing over anyway.
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  CMHypnoposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I've tweaked all the tweaks and published a new hub because someone suggested that Google likes to see activity on an account to no avail, so more and more am coming to the conclusion that I'm just going to write what articles that I want to write, for no other reason than I want to write them and decide where to post them when they are done.
  
  Stressing about traffic has done absolutely no good, so from now on just going with the flow and wishing a nice day to anyone who thinks that my writing style is 'awkward'
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  CASE1WORKERposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  just seen your avatar with a nice little 100 attached to it. I know it is well deserved but why doesn't Mr G? It shows the lack of correalation between hubber score and google-
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  Stacie Lposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I agree...if we write good articles,what criteria is Mr. G using to place them?
  maybe we need to start a bidding war?
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  CMHypnoposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Don't know Case1worker, but I'm certainly getting no Google love! But it still begs the question - what needs to change to get traffic?
  
  So going to continue with newish strategy of writing what I like and not worryig about traffic and earnings. After all Law of Attraction says that if you worry about a lack of something, you will only attract more of the lack. Going to change my screen name to ZenHypno and chill!
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toygurusposted 12 years ago
Well apparently Google may have rolled back a lot of the Panda 2.5 updates as they didn't like the results. A lot of people criticized google when all of google's properties saw gains.

http://www.stateofsearch.com/did-google … panda-2-5/
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SirDentposted 12 years ago
I checked the PR of my profile page and it hasn't changed in about three years. If the articles were now considered sub-par, why hasn't the PR changed? I honestly believe that Google does not know what is really going on anymore than we do.
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  Aficionadaposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  SirDent, the PR only relates to how many links the page has. I learned this only recently.
  
  http://hubpages.com/forum/post/1689680
  
  http://hubpages.com/forum/post/1790019
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  toygurusposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Sirdent,
  Yes google ranks pages, but if your profile page has PR some of the PR will flow through the articles since the profile page has links to your articles. This is provided that hubpages links to your pages with dofollow links on the profile page. I am not sure this is the case. However, PR is only one of 200 different things google looks at.
  
  See what google has to say about profile pages and PR here
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPgczWynzyY
  
  If you have PR, you should come up for a search for SirDent.
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  WriteAngledposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I get the following for such a search - sorry I do not know how to use Printscreen, and if I did, I would not know how to place it here.
  
  SirDent on HubPages
  sirdent.hubpages.com/
  SirDent is a carpenter who lives in southern West Virginia. He likes to write poetry, short stories, how to articles but mostly writes devotionals...
  SirDent (@SirDent) on Twitter
  twitter.com/sirdent
  Sign up for Twitter to follow SirDent (@SirDent). Christian, Carpenter, plumber, poet, and bible study writer.
  sirdent.com - sir dent Resources and Information. This website is for ...
  sirdent.com/
  Buy this domain. The domain sirdent.com may be for sale by its owner! ... Buy this domain. The domain sirdent.com may be for sale by its owner! More details. ...
  Blogger: User Profile: SirDent
  www.blogger.com/profile/03072122414798304996
  I also write Bible studies. I work in construction. I write articles and publish them at http://hubpages.com/profile/SirDent ...
  SirDent's Bible Studies and Devotions | Facebook
  www.facebook.com/pages/SirDents-Bible.. … 0614498293
  SirDent's Bible Studies a... ·. Everyone (Top Posts) ... SirDent's Bible Studies and Devotions edited their Birthday, Website and Biography. ...
  InterPals Penpals :: SirDent's Profile
  www.interpals.net/SirDent?&unum=&am … =search...
  It's 9:35 pm (EST) in SirDent's time zone. Back to search results. ... SirDent's profile has been viewed by 0 members this month. ...
  myLot - SirDent
  www.mylot.com/SirDent
  There are no comments on SirDent's profile. Friends of SirDent are encouraged to drop comments in this area. myLot population: 234261 | myLot time: ...
  SirDent's favorite websites - StumbleUpon
  www.stumbleupon.com/stumbler/SirDent/
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  Aficionadaposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I think there are even more than 200 factors in the newer algorithms. I want to be clear about my previous post. I was only wanting to clarify what PageRank is. I was not commenting on the factors Google looks at in listing webpages in the SERPs.
  
  Also, the term PageRank is called that because Larry Page, one of the founders of Google, invented it.
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klanguedocposted 12 years ago
Panda is like shifting sand. the new algorithm has a brain that is constantly learning. You need to keep on using twitter, facebook, goolge's +1, stumbleupon and other social bookmarking.
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Marketing
Google AdSense	This is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Google DoubleClick	Google provides ad serving technology and runs an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Index Exchange	This is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
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Amazon Unified Ad Marketplace	This is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
AppNexus	This is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Openx	This is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Rubicon Project	This is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
TripleLift	This is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Say Media	We partner with Say Media to deliver ad campaigns on our sites. (Privacy Policy)
Remarketing Pixels	We may use remarketing pixels from advertising networks such as Google AdWords, Bing Ads, and Facebook in order to advertise the HubPages Service to people that have visited our sites.
Conversion Tracking Pixels	We may use conversion tracking pixels from advertising networks such as Google AdWords, Bing Ads, and Facebook in order to identify when an advertisement has successfully resulted in the desired action, such as signing up for the HubPages Service or publishing an article on the HubPages Service.

Statistics
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Comscore	ComScore is a media measurement and analytics company providing marketing data and analytics to enterprises, media and advertising agencies, and publishers. Non-consent will result in ComScore only processing obfuscated personal data. (Privacy Policy)
Amazon Tracking Pixel	Some articles display amazon products as part of the Amazon Affiliate program, this pixel provides traffic statistics for those products (Privacy Policy)
Clicksco	This is a data management platform studying reader behavior (Privacy Policy)

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