Is "immortality" a possiblity or a probability?

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   qwarkposted 13 years ago

   I'll leave it up to you. I do not ask this as a joke.

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      IdiditAlreadyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      If you believe YOU are your body and brain, I do not think so. 
      
      If you believe you are part of the source itself as a drop of water is still part of the ocean, then Immortality is a description to to vaguely explain what you already are.
      
      ONE!

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         qwarkposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Ty Ididit:
         No, not at all. I realize of what I am made. I realize I am the stuff of the stars, a result of the incident we call the "big bang." I realize that energy cannot be created nor destroyed.
         I am thinking far beyond contemporary thought into the possibilities available to "intelligent" life far into the future.
         If we humans can find a way to exist and adapt and survive, is it possible for the need of the brain for a protoplasmic mass to do it's bidding, for it to become a vistigial remnant of a intelligent energy field/force that fucntions by controlling thru the processes of pure energized kinetics and be able to ply our universe and whatever lies beyond.

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   saleheensblogposted 13 years ago

   It's a joke

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      qwarkposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      why do you say it's a joke?
      I am not asking this question as a joke.
      Can man  attain immortality if he continues to exist.
      Why do you think my question is a joke?

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      kimberlyslyricsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      

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   alternate poetposted 13 years ago

   Immortality no - hugely extended life span yes.

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      qwarkposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Poet: ty ...why not immortality?

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         alternate poetposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Because all known life is based on cycles of birth and death, change is essential for survival, as is diversity.  If that is too wishy washy then the probability of some accident or desease being whateveer small percentage, say 1%  -  in enough time it becomes a certainty, you can't buck maths.

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            qwarkposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Poet: ty ..pls read my response to shades...:-)

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   Shadesbreathposted 13 years ago

   It's impossible.  Even if somehow they figured out a way to keep you alive, some machine or something, a brain transplant into a robot or something else, the universe is going to end at some point and you'll not survive that, so, nope, impossible. 
   
   Only way to get it otherwise is pick a religion and try to prove that it is true. If you can prove one of them is right, then you can make a claim that imortality is possible through whatever magical scenario that religion has, but that requires first proving a religion true, which is itself impossible, so, you're still back to the answer being, nope, it's impossible.

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      qwarkposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Shades: I like that thought. The universe will end one day so that makes immortality impossible. I agree accept for one fact.
      When our universe dissipates, it dissipates into what realm of existence? Could it be possible, as some think, that if man were to continue to evolve, lose the necessity for protoplasm and becomes pure intelligent energy which still evolves (evolution is limitless,) could that "energy" continue on forever existing in whatever lies beyond the boundaries of the universe we know.? Or do you think that man will end his reign on this planet in less than a couple billion years as temperatures rise and all life is obliterated. Is there a possibility that "man" can construe a way to continue to exist beyond that point?...and in what evolved form?

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         Shadesbreathposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Well, if the universe folds in on itself and then inverts into another dimension or place and the Big Bang begins again on the other side, I would say that all the energy in the universe is remade, which would have to include any self-aware, massless energy (which I don't buy anyway).  So, I would still say no, even if granting that.  If suns and dark matter and all that have to get recycled, so does a thinking proton or whatever you are suggesting we will somehow try to become.

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            qwarkposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            I missed your retort Shades sorry.
            You are thinking that ours is the only universe in the macro cosmos.
            If "intelligent energy" could be evolved, what would keep that "force" from evolving into greater forces, able to move by thought alone, meeting other such entities, exchanging knowledge, maybe amalgamating or seperating and moving on.
            These kinds of potential fascinate me. The potential of there having been many big bangs before ours within which infinite numbers of life forms could have already evolved and exist traveling within and without other universes and dimensions with consummate ease.
            FAirytaleish I know but yesterdays science fiction is todays reality! Who knows what will ensue if man can make it unblemished thru the next 100 yrs?......of course that is not likely.

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               Shadesbreathposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Well, I don't hold out any belief that all that life energy thing is going to happen for us, but I'm with you on the "let's get through a hundred years without wiping ourselves out" thing.

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                  qwarkposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  Shades: Oh hell no! not in our lifetimes. it would take another million or so, probably more, yrs of successful evolution to realize all that I can imagine.
                  Amen on the: I hope we make it thru the next 100 yrs.
                  I don't think it'll happen.

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   qwarkposted 13 years ago

   Do not open anything on johnsobers thread....i tried and my PC froze. Had to dump hubpages and re-open..

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   Thumb86posted 13 years ago

   immortality in what sense? are we talking about living forever in some form, on some other plane of existence after death? or living forever in the here and now? as for the latter, it seems doubtful..very doubtful. And the former? Well, like someone else stated, medical science will more than likely develop drugs that will mess around with our biological clock and allow us to live on for an extended period..But make us live forever? I dont think so..And why on earth would you want to?! I can't think of anything more grim than living forever.
   
   " All Things Must Pass " - George Harrison

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      qwarkposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      thumb: I agree. Living on this planet till the end would be torture.
      I'm thinking far beyond that...light years beyond that.

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         alternate poetposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         This is the problem with the question - you are thinkin gbeyond available knowledge, and beyond our cpacity to think.  Imagining is just pissing in a bucket with a hole in it, you get little more than wet feet.

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            qwarkposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Ah but Poet, man's imagination and curiosity is what has gotten us where we are today. Advances in technology and science are advancing like a geometric progression...to the point of becoming a singularity.
            I love to think of possibilities, potential, probabilities.
            There are those cosmologists and physicists who think that intelligent energy can evolve...I am of that same ilk in thinking.
            If man does not become an extinct species, there are no limitations on his abilities.
            how do you see it...?

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               alternate poetposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               There are physical limitations to everything.  Man is just an animal that has evolved and evolution will either change man or replace him. That is the nature of change itself.  My bet would be replacement as that has been the process all the way so far.

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                  qwarkposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  Poet..I expected more. You are thinking short term. your thinking represents the trite thought pattern of the common man.
                  Thanks for commenting tho.....:-)

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                     alternate poetposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     Well - I am glad that you consider yourself above an' all, such an uncommon man.  I normally enjoy your off the wall questions but htis one is going nowhere because there is nto enough information available to us and it has been explored to death in sci-fi without any plausable answers,  like the christians you don't appeaar to accept the limitations of yourself and want more.  Get over it - there isn't any more.

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                        qwarkposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        Poet: oh you are so wrong! lol   but lets just agree to disagree that the level of small talk you wish to engage me in is valueless..ok?
                        Been a pleasure...:-)

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            Thumb86posted 13 years agoin reply to this

            @poet: That was a legendary retort.

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               qwarkposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               thumb ...and I hope typed with tongue-in-cheek.
               It had no intrinsic value.

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                  Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  It did sound like something that my Grand Pa would say.
                  
                  qwark    Hope this doesn't make ya change your mind but I'm agreing with ya.

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                  Thumb86posted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  yeah, it had no value..just made me chuckle I reccomend a healthy dose of psilocybe mushrooms..get your third eye squeaky clean and then ponder this thought...

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   klarawieckposted 13 years ago

   Our bodies are merely a body suit made of flesh (not like Lady Gaga's dress). It is this body the one that dies. But our soul is eternal because, after all, there is no such thing as time. Time is a human invention, a perception of our human reality.

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      qwarkposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Klara you are right on the time bit, but you are playing in deep left field when ya speak of souls. Ain't no such thing, it just a "hope" held by the fearful and superstitious.
      I'll see ya sometine in TOE and ya can explain all that I missed by not believing in such sillyness...ok? deal?  :-)

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   klarawieckposted 13 years ago

   You stay in TOE while I continue to chatter with my invisible friends over here. That's a deal!

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      qwarkposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Klara ..
      I'm wi'tcha.....:-)

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   qwarkposted 13 years ago

   I'm gonna hit the sac...g'nite all..it's past my bed time: midnite.....I'm off to see the wizard...the wonderfllllllll...zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

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      klarawieckposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Hahaha... Good night!

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      spookyfoxposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Reading most of your responses there's a bit of a problem, and that is:
      what is it that makes the self that needs to continue. Is it the ability to create? If it is a lot of us could be considered dead already. Is it that ability to feel, percieve and sense? Well, not soon but someday the Sun will die, and with it the Earth. Perhaps you'll say, long before that day we'll have migrated to all the corners of Space. Well, all those others stars probably will die too, and everything will be cosmic dust again. Perhaps we can somehow transcend our bodies and be pure thought and energy, but then: how could we percieve anything? And furthermore, at that point there wouldn't be anything left to percieve, nor there would be any reason to and no use for thought, since there would be no change and no stimuli. Would there be any interaction as pure energy? Would there be any separation from one being to the next? How? What? It's fun to think of this but it seems to fit more under the realm of fantasy.

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         alternate poetposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         It is not fantasy it already exists every day.  We have children.

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            earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Exactly!

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            spookyfoxposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            That's why I asked what is it that would need to suvive for someone to be called immortal. I don't think it's genes.

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    Jewelsposted 13 years ago

    In Steiners model of evolution to achieve immortality, or a Body of Immortality as is his term, it's not possible (or extremely difficult) to achieve individually.  It's more to do with an evolutionary process - so it's collective.
    
    He speaks about a level of consciousness (collective) for a transformed etheric body (this being our life force) which would come first.  Then a transformed Astral body (with is the thoughts and emotions) and lastly a transformed physical body.  To understand the concept of a transformed physical body in terms of his teachings - it's the ability to re-grow bones and teeth.  It's a major depth of consciousness within our own physiology which we do not have now; nor are we likely to have it for many many generations.  To guage a transformed physical as opposed to a transformed etheric (life force) is to understand proprioception.  (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proprioception)  It appears we do not really have a consciousness of our physical body at all, but are so externalized in consciousness that we have a limited perception or our own physicalness.
    
    The best we can currently do (without this massive depth of consciousness within ourselves) is going to be via nano technology where we can regrow our own organs and skin using our own cells.  Apparently it will become common for us to prolong our lives by 30+ years, ie likely to live till we are 130 or 150 as opposed to around 80 or 90.  And there are documentaries now claiming it will be the baby boomers among those achieving this age.

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    Jewelsposted 13 years ago

    Alternate Poet stated above that immortality is beyond our level of thought.  He's technically right, but with awareness it's not impossible to stretch our levels of thought.  For some doing serious (I mean serious) meditation practices, it's fathomable in terms of knowledge - awareness.  In terms of science, if science can keep our physical bodies breathing and healthier for longer periods, perhaps it's not impossible.

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    aka-djposted 13 years ago

    Why would the concept even enter our consciousness if it were not a possibility?

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       Aya Katzposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       Well, I think it works like this. We have an in-born mechanism to make us not want to die. Any animal that doesn't have that will die too soon and not be able to replicate itself. So natural selection tends to choose those who don't want to die over those who are suicidal or don't care if they die or not.
       
       Every day we work hard not to die that day. The more times we have managed to evade death, the more we want to continue to do so. We can put off death indefinitely but not forever. But we're pretty much programmed to put it off as long as we can. Immortality is an idealization of our goal of not dying yet...

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    alqxposted 13 years ago

    Seems that no one has addressed the question at all. His question is whether 'immortality' is:
    
    1) A possibility
    
    OR
    
    2) A probability
    
    
    Well, then it's not quite a good question because for something to have a 'probability' it must first be 'possible'. It's not either or.
    
    Maybe you should have just phrase it like this (if I got your meaning wrong): Is 'immortality' possible?

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       alqxposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       If you'd ask me, I'd say it's possible, but very improbable. (Yes, I'm a 'The God Delusion' product.)

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       klarawieckposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       No, it's not that people didn't answer qwark's question. Is that he left the right answer out of his multiple choice. The answer is C. DEFINITE (as it refers to our soul, not our body, of course)

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    iantoPFposted 13 years ago

    It's an interesting question and one that I would have to answer "Yes" to at least on the possibility side. There will always be some who search for immortality and that search has already produced the theoretical module.
    There is a concept floating about called "Nano-doc's" These would be microscopically small computers placed in our glands and in our organs. they would evaluate our physical condition and monitor Hormone and anti-body release and perform other functions such as regulating blood flow and maintaining heart beat. It only requires technology to catch up with the concept and it would certainly be possible to extend our lives far beyond what we now consider possible. It seems likely then that given a much longer healthy life span, that other ways will be found to increase life spans even further.
    The problem of an overcrowded Earth would require moving off this globe, but with a hugely extended lifetime the stars are not out of reach.
    Shades point about the Universe ending, That isn't for a few billion years and it seems to me that if we could think about it for a billion years or so we could come up with an answer to that. It is possible that science could give us immortality.
    One last point, the thing that has always troubled me about life is that it's like coming into a movie in the middle and having to leave before it ends. I for one, would like to hang out and see how this whole business works out.

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    maven101posted 13 years ago

    Immortality, in the sense that we are comprised of stellar material, is not only probable, it is necessary for any reality to exist...
    Life, death...these are trivial occurrences in the processing of matter...The matter, itself, is immortal, as long as that term can apply in this existence...Relating immortality to just our human life span is supreme arrogance and self-delusion...We are simply animated dirt, and when the human animal meets death, once again we return to that stellar matter that we see in the star-filled night...

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       klarawieckposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       Well said Maven!

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       qwarkposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       Maven: contemporarily so.
       I'm thinking far, far beyond contemporary man.

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          alternate poetposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          You are not thinking beyond the contemporary - you are imagining without any attachment to reality.  Nothing wrong with this but you cannot 'think' of things that you don't know, except in the terms of what you know.
          
          The 'search' for immortality is a metaphorical search, it represents a set of thoughts if you like - life depends on 'cycles' to exist at all, you are immortal all the time one of your offspring is surviving.

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    qwarkposted 13 years ago

    g'mornin' y'all:
    I've read thru all your comments. I'm going to cut and paste a portion of my 'profile" introduction to make a point:
    "I have not met 0ne person who is able to expand the infinite capabilities of their minds far into the abyss of limitless space and time, with the intent of exposing themselves to the possibility that a little abstract thought might lead to new enlightening concepts relevant to the creation and evolution of life in the universe."
    My point here is that as I read your thoughtfull comments I find that the all refer to a contemporary world and existence.
    I would like to refer you all to a "hub" I found on "google" written by "Wingedcentaur" based upon the subject of the question of my forum title. I am honored that he mentioned me.
    Ty "winged Centaur!:
    http://hubpages.com/hub/Can-Life-Evolve … ent-Energy

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    Jewelsposted 13 years ago

    The continuum of consciousness without the use of the physical body. Is this what you had in mind, or not?
    
    Qwark, I'm skimming through the hub you posted and I understand the concept you are talking about, though I've perhaps experienced it differently, or use different language for it.  Formless, massless, intelligent energy - is actually the ability to retain consciousness beyond the physical body, which is possible NOW and is being done NOW by people who are adepts at separating the mind from the physical bodies via 'meditation' practices.  I'm using the term meditation loosely because for many meditation is a relaxation tool.  Not so for some.  It's a massive undertaking to map states of consciousness and have an awareness of 'subtle' bodies.  And Astral layers - the realm of thoughts is massive, massive, huge.
    
    Super or supra logic abilities, 'Supermind' is a term to describe the ability for frictionless thoughts beyond the human body.  Thinking abilities way beyond the norm.  We know the human brain is only used to 30% of it's capacity, giving major scope for expansion!
    
    The term Archetype is also something of note.  When you say "we are guided by the idea of a hammer not a hammer itself."  This is a less fallen principal of an archetype.  The more fallen the thought, the grosser it is and the more clumsy it is as acted out with our current bodies.
    
    Subtle bodies is something to learn about, though it's definitely not mainstream.  In terms of evolution, there are structures not currently used.  Atrophied limbs may be a good term.  But once the limbs gain muscle, are flexed, there is use for them. 
    
    The term immortality is most likely a vague one at best, like the term Enlightenment - shite it means different things to different people.  How does "the retention/continuum of consciousness and the ability to use intelligence regardless of what body that consciousness lands in" sound to you? In addition to the ability to tap into levels of consciousness (as you stated there are a myriad of worlds our there) in a frictionless way.
    
    I've done several hubs on consciousness being beyond the brain, which experientially it is, so what you are indicating is another level to it.

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       Jewelsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       Interesting also, when you really get your head (consciousness) around continuum, death is so transitory that's it's not death at all.  You just change clothes.  Another topic!

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       qwarkposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       Hi Jewel: thanks for taking the time to read the site I offered.
       I hope you read my "hub" he mentioned also. If you didn't, I can understand why you ask this question: "The continuum of consciousness without the use of the physical body. Is this what you had in mind, or not?"
       The answer is NOT.
       I am considering evolution to the point where the "intelligent, conscious mind" has evolved far past the need for a protoplasmic mass to assist it to accomplish anything it desires by the control of pure thought, kinetic energy.
       Example: The less a female  breast is used the less the necessity for it. It becomes a vestigial remnant like the appendix, or the coccyx and begins to dissipate in future progeny.
       The same would slowly happen to the protoplasmic mass which a modern brain needs to perform and survive.
       If you didn't read my "hub" on that potential, I can understand the confusion....:-)
       Qwark

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          klarawieckposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          So, what are you suggesting we will become in the far future if this theory of vestigial remnant does take place?

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          Jewelsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          So how are you defining Immortality?  And why would I want a human experience without a body?
          
          I loved your hub The Reward, and I totally get it..
          
          One of the dangers here is the ability to stop feeling as feeling is via the sensory organs - nerves.  In terms of subtle bodies, it's the etheric body or life force.  Only being our thoughts without the ability to feel is, to me personally, one of the wonderful things about being human.  Imagine if we were only our thoughts, without the protoplasmic mass.  (positive of this is feeling no pain!)  Who wants to be just thoughts though.  I'd like a body personally while having the human experience.  It's the bit that procreates and loves sexuality because it feeeeeeeeeeels so good.  Unless people are satisfied with mind sex, currently experienced by people who ring the 1300 numbers for gratification, then we need a body.
          
          That aside.  Have you read Bleeding Sun - a futuristic predictive novel about where the human race is heading?  Something like the Matrix, interestingly written pre matrix.  'The Rex' takes control of society, our thoughts, also breaths Brave New World come true.  It's the blue pill enmass, no emotions allowed and no free thinking.. 
          
          OK, I'm way off topic here, but it's because of a global lack of peripheral vision that I'm mentioning it.  Consciousness without the human body, is not really a human experience, I'd call it inhumane.  But I guess we humans could be heading toward an inhumane society.  Shite!  To be honest it scares me to see where we could be heading.  And it's to be noted that without this organic level of feeling that we all have, that we could lose our sense of individuality or spiritual essence (not, definitely not in any way speaking about religion here).  The I Am, the Me that I am.  Not the lemming.
          
          But to evolving body parts, this is also spoken about in Steiner's work. Currently we have organs that are unconscious.  With awareness and use they will become conscious.  It's called subtle body building. 
          
          In Bleeding Sun there are levels of consciousness reached by using these rebuilt structures above the head.  Additionally, like the matrix, there is a fair amount of being 'plugged in'. RR, VR, VRR will be terms of the future (Real Reality, Virtual Reality, and Virtual Real Reality).  I think there are a few more but I can't remember them.
          
          But there are practices happening now where this building is happening, but kinetic abilities as you mention are not that simple.  They can be done on an etheric level, ie moving body parts is like the beginnings of astral traveling, you move away from the physical.  it's tangible, it's possible, it's experiential - not experimental!
          
          Sorry for war and peace but it's not common to have an opening to talk about this stuff.

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    A la carteposted 13 years ago

    Anything is possible providing man has the time to evolve. This means leaving earth because I do not believe man will evolve sufficiently to exist once the sun dies..so..onwards and upwards..got to be a place to go from here.

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    qwarkposted 13 years ago

    G'mornin' Klara, Jewel and A la Carte.
    I just finished reading all your comments. Thanks for the responses! :-)
    Unfortunately, I believe A la Carte has the answer.
    To Klara, the only way any of what I write about could take place is if man "succeeds" as a species. I don't believe contemporary man will. "IF" we, somehow, do make it, man will experiment wth eugenics and the man of the future will, necessarily, have to be mutated into a form that will be able to endure the rigors of space travel if we, as a species, have the will to survive. The vestigial aspects of a new human being would not exist. Genetic engineering would rule those out.
    Jewel: Immortality is existing forever. Evolution, which is eternal, is involved in the processes of creating perfection. Where life exists, evolution will be functioning in full bloom.
    " And why would I want a human experience without a body?"
    At the point in our evolution, where we would exist as a pure source of intelligent energy, the memory of existing with a "body" could be compared to the pupae of a butterfly. Once morphed into a butterfly the pupae and it's use are never again considered.
    Concerning the "human," the "energy entity" I perceive is the result of another half-a-billion years down the road.
    All life on this planet will probably cease to exist in about 2 billion years. The surface of our planet will be a boiling cauldron upon which not even the most robust of life could exist.
    We will have had to leave to search for other habitable areas in the cosmos...unless, we had evolved to the point of having become free of our body "mass" and have been converted into a form of energy that is in complete control of cosmic physics.
    If the Super String Theory or TOE is a reality, then evolution will continue to function and the energy that was once "human" would/could continue onward toward evolutions impossible task of creating perfection.
    Does this clear things up a little?
    Thanks, all of you, for your interest!  :-)

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       Jewelsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       I was clear in the first place but I see things between here and the place you're forseeing.  You may be perceiving my understanding as not reality.  Regardless I understand very well. 
       
       Even a morphed butterfly remembers its roots, it just has to know how to find the source within it's cells.  I'll see you in space in a different body.

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    Anesidoraposted 13 years ago

    I agree with Poet. Immortality is impossible.
    
    If we 'evolve' back to pure energy, we've merely regressed, or possibly completed a very long and involved process, but we're definitely no longer human.
    
    Humans -like other earth animals- are physical creature, our humanness defined by our physical existence. 'Evolve' us into pure energy -or into anything capable of surviving the collapse of a universe- and we're no longer human.
    
    Can pure energy be immortal? Can that part survive? Yes. But that is not human, and not possible for a human to achieve and still be human.
    
    If you look at us as pure energy, then yes we're already immortal, and repeated deaths of the physical are just a part of that immortality.
    
    For humans, if we gained immortality we'd lose our humanity.
    
    Is a survival possible, as you later suggested. Yes, certainly, but not on an individual human basis.

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       qwarkposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       Anesidora:
       A la Carte didn't say immortality is impossible, he said it is improbable because man will most likely be responsible for his own demise.
       You are quite correct in that if we humans were to evolve into pure forms of intelligent energy, we'd no longer be humans as defined.
       Isn't it a possibility to leave the human realm and become greater than the simple forms of primitive life we exist as today?
       Why must we remain human as defined? I think that is the impossiblity. Evolution wouldn't allow it.
       Death would not be considered. It would be passe.
       WE will NEVER "survive" as we presently exist.

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          Anesidoraposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          Well again, a whole other subject.
          
          I don't know, if people as a species will survive. It certainly seems unlikely. I imagine it's possible. Sure we will evolve, but not necessarily all of us, not necessarily the whole species.
          
          Yes, earth is not immortal. That doesn't mean we cannot possibly adapt to elsewhere without evolving, or adapt elsewhere itself to suit our present physical state of being. Certainly not something I'm betting on, but I do think it's certainly possible.
          
          I'm not saying we're not going to evolve. I'm not saying anything really. This thread isn't even about what I thought it was about, so surely I'm confused, but I do think you could get at least two really good sci-fi plots out of it.

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    Anesidoraposted 13 years ago

    Okay I read a little further in the thread. Interesting concept which you eventually get to, not exactly what I'd call immortality, but whatever.
    
    Sounds like religion there Qwark. Life is just a learning process, the spiritual man apart from the physical, etc etc.
    
    Not sure what the point would be though, but maybe eventually your concept will develop a god to worship or something. Mindless minds. What would be the point?
    
    Without living physical matter, I'm not sure there's any point to energy.
    
    If I am created of energy which existed long before my physical being did, then all I can tell you is that I don't remember a thing about it. I suspect that was because it was mindless energy. Energy does not have a consciousness, only a need to expend itself.
    
    Consciousness only comes from the transformation of energy into an advanced enough living being with a complex enough physical brain. Beyond that -or before that I should say- there is only mindless energy.
    
    If we 'evolved' back into mindless energy, we'd be back where we started at and looking forward to evolving into slime.
    
    You seem to suggest there'd be some benefit to this? I don't see it.
    
    It isn't just the physical body which has evolved with each step out of the mudbath, it's also the physical mind. Poof back into pure energy and you lose all of that, everything gained, gone again.
    
    No I just dont see it qwark.
    
    No reason to think we'd evolve back into what we were, or that by doing so we could possibly be more advanced, when it necessitates losing that very thing which defines our state of advancement.
    
    But if you add a magical god and morals that needed to be learned or some such ridiculousness, it would all make perfect sense. No, it still wouldn't, honestly, but that's kind of what it sounds like. Religion.

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       qwarkposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       Anesidora:
       There would be no regression there. We'd be so advanced...well, ya gotta read my "hub" to understand:
       http://hubpages.com/hub/Qwark3

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          Anesidoraposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          Religion.
          
          The reward is knowing everything, with no interest in anything and needing nothing.
          
          I'd rather just be dead.
          
          No offense. Just not what I'd call alive. It's an interesting thought I suppose. Sounds like heaven though. Never interested me.
          
          I guess they'd go around building worlds for mortals and screwing with their lives and stuff? No sex, no conversation, nothing but mindless perfection?
          
          Sorry I can't give you what you seek (which seems to be agreement) but no, I don't think immortality is possible or desirable for living beings, unless you count that jellyfish (which I don't). Scientifically it will probably be achieved to some horrendous degree, but i don't think it would ever be a natural evolution of the human species.
          
          Evolving into mindlessness still sounds mindless to me. Sorry.
          
          Interesting topic though. I'll leave you to it.

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             qwarkposted 13 years agoin reply to this

             Anesidora:
             :-) we agree to disagree...thanks for reading and for your thoughts...:-)
             Qwark

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    Disturbiaposted 13 years ago

    Our children give us immortality.  Through them, part of us survives and carries on.

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       qwarkposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       Hi Disturbia: Compared to what I'm trying to convey, that comment is primitive.
       Thanks anyway...:-)

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          Disturbiaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          Why qwark, you should know how simple and unevolved my little mind is by now.  Primative is as good as it gets, and probably a reach for me at that. LOL!  I never want to make anything more complicated or complex than it needs to be.  But I've read enough of you to get where you're going with this and what you're trying to convey.  I will just never have the energy or the inclination to go there.

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             alberichposted 13 years agoin reply to this

             In this immense complex matter the difference in accuracy between the sharpest scientifically explanations and a poetic or primitive grasp is just neglect able. And whatever we ever can conclude we already know inheritably. Although I think it is inspiring, to talk and play with thoughts and meet with each other.
             
             And on the subject matter; “immortality possibility or probability”, I like to quote Ludwig Wittgenstein;
             
             “A man will be imprisoned in a room with a door that's unlocked and opens inwards; as long as it does not occur to him to pull rather than push”.
             
             :-)
             
             Love you all!

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    alberichposted 13 years ago

    Mortals live every moment to catch immortality while the immortals envy the beautifulness in living, where every breath can be the last. Although death and life is just different angles of the same.

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       qwarkposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       Alberich: :-) your words are colorful but meaningless.
       Pls go into detail in ref to your comment.
       I, for one, would like to know what inspired it...ty  :-)

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          alternate poetposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          The words are not meaningless - they are the classical view of the gods and man - man envies gods their ability to live for ever and the gods envy man the excitement, passion, the heightened sense of being alive becasue we will die.

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             alberichposted 13 years agoin reply to this

             I love you Alternate Poet! Yes, I thought it would be meaningfull to add a classical view in this matter. Meaning is by the way a rather relative matter the following perspectives, at least define, meaning:
             
             Meaning (linguistics), meaning which is communicated through the use of language
             Meaning (non-linguistic), extra-linguistic meaning (intentional communication without the use of language), and natural meaning, where no intentions are involved at all
             Meaning (semiotics) has to do with the distribution of signs in sign relations
             Meaning as a relationship between ontology and truth
             Meaning as a reference or equivalence
             Meaning (philosophy of language)
             Meaning as values, a value system or as derived from value theory
             Meaning (existential), as it is understood in contemporary existentialism
             The meaning of life, a notion concerning the nature of human existence
             Meaning (House), an episode of the TV series House

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    AMBASSADOR BUTLERposted 13 years ago

    Man is a spirit that is enclosed around him with the physical body and soul which includes man,s thoughts, feelings, thinking, attitudes, and so on etc... So yes man in his pure form after physical death can live forever. Like water have 3 forms yet is the same thing in essence, so is mankind. Water is in 3 forms of vapor, liquid, ice. Man is spirit, soul, body. That should answer the question of is immortality a possibility in short form. For me personally it is settled because I tasted immortality on August 1, 1982 a Sunday morning in a vision GOD had shown me. Thank you. Go in peace.

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    King Larryposted 13 years ago

    sure, immortality is possible.....that's why im going to live forever, as i just made a loopy deal with Satan to stay alive. (whistles coyly as i walk off)

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       Disturbiaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       Larry, ... Master Larry?  LOL, I hope your deal included that you would maintain a youthful and attractive appearance and that you have lots and lots of spending loot while you're living forever... lol.  You have to be very specific when dealing with the Devil you know.  Make sure you get it all in writing and there aren't any funky little twists in the contract. The Devil just loves the loopholes. Oh yeah, I almost forgot, make sure you don't EVER sign anything in your own blood. 

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          King Larryposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          oh don't you worry, i did.  In fact, not only did i get all that too in writing, I also managed have it in the agreement that everything in my body would ALWAYS function properly too.     
          
          edit:  sign anything with my own blood?  nah, i would never do that crap.  besides, that devil maybe straight up evil, but he knows better than to mess with me, as im just freaking crazy and you shouldn't ever mess with a crazy guy. 

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             Disturbiaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

             LOL, yeah I was gonna mention you might ask for perfect health too, but I thought that it would be a given, since you're immortal and all.  But it never hurts to take care of all the little details.

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                King Larryposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                yeah, that's true.  besides, whats the point of being immortal if little larry isn't around and working properly. 

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    qwarkposted 13 years ago

    All I can say is from my profile page:
    " have not met 0ne person who is able to expand the infinite capabilities of their minds far into the abyss of limitless space and time, with the intent of exposing themselves to the possibility that a little abstract thought might lead to new enlightening concepts relevant to the creation and evolution of life in the universe."
    ....and on it goes!       :-)

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    andromidaposted 13 years ago

    I would say immortality is certainly a possibility with greater degree of probability. But the question is if immortality will bring anything good to this world than creating more disorder.

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       qwarkposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       Ando: it wouldn't have anything to do with this world. That possibility doesn't exist.

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          andromidaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          Neither me.I think possibility of immortality is just a possibility. But it really don't not affect me anyone,I love a finite life and wanna die with honor-that's all. thank you so much

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             qwarkposted 13 years agoin reply to this

             YW Andromida   :-)

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    alberichposted 13 years ago

    Death is not an event in life: we do not live to experience death. If we take eternity to mean not infinite temporal duration but timelessness, then eternal life belongs to those who live in the present.
    (Ludwig Wittgenstein)

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       qwarkposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       Alberich: Wittgensteins words have nothing to do with what I am seeking an answer to....nothing!

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          alberichposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          ;-) You dont know a bit about that

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             qwarkposted 13 years agoin reply to this

             Alberich:  lol ya got that screwed up. it seems, to me, that you have no idea what I'm referring to in this thread.
             NP. You have lotsa company. Lost in a maze of small thought....:-)

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                alberichposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                At least you are a person that try to reach out for immortality but your jibberish is as much nonsense as any of the others here just a little bit more Hybris. I like your ambition though

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                   qwarkposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                   lol...Immortality? naw al, we're much too young a species to be considering immortality during our reign. At this point in our evolution we exist as pure "nonsense." Deadly nonsense.
                   Be sure to point out my "jibberish" when ya see it. I'm always up for an "assertive" chat with those who disagree with me.
                   Come well armed tho. I will not challenge one who is not armed and prepared for intellecual intercourse...lolol...:-)

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    alberichposted 13 years ago

    This ambition of yours to speak of challenge and intellectual intercourse is no doubt a very primitive form of self-assertion. No higher life form waste energy on any such basic instinct.  ;-)
    
    It’s very sad to see a potentially intelligent person throw away his minimal time here on bullying other people with a pick of nonsense rhetoric and logic that only are meant to lead to a feeling of being superior. What would it be like if you instead turned your focus on your inner and on other persons in the practice of compassion? There is a potential chance that you would understand something of yourself, of us and of the existence.
    
    I love you qvark and you probably will not listen to it. Instead you will continue your meaningless thread of debating.
    
    
    Love You and I hope you can find a better way.

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       qwarkposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       Naw Al...we are all "primitives." No doubt about it. Thats why we are headed toward our potential demise as a species.
       There are those, such as you, that, for some inexplicable reason, don't understand that we humans are not a sympathetic, compassionate bunch.
       Our history has been built on guile and predation. We give lip service to the niceties, but in fact we are wily and deadly.
       I never bully anyone! My goodness, how did you come to that notion? Have you been witness to it? Pls give me an example. My understanding of contemporary humanity can be challenged. I acccept the challenge. If there is anything anyone can teach me about our insane species that I don't already know, I'd love the "input." Instead of characterizing me as a hubber who is interested in being personally superior to others, why don't you do your damnedest to straighten me out in areas you think might do the trick? I am just another simple human creature who's trying to make his way thru life. The more I know, the more klnwledge and wisdom I gain, the richer my life can be. Same goes for you and all other of our species.
       Challenge and intellectual intercourse is what has made man the creature he is today. It also may be responsible for his imminent reduction or demise.
       No, I'm not superior to any man. but we all have our "callings."
       I'm not an Einstein or Hawking, but I have talents and desires just as you have that make us both unique amongst our fellow men.
       I would like you to explain this if you can:
       " No higher life form waste energy on any such basic instinct." 
       pls provide an example of a higher lifeform....you see, I am seeking input  ;-)

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          alberichposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          Dear qwark,
          Start to experience life and do a little less of explaning it.
          And “Love” contemplate about love, what is love for you? Whats your experince? Do feel god or bad about it? Is it a clear concept to you and what referrence do you have and can you get?
          In short:
          Your aim, tools, process understanding and references are not accurate enough. You have to develop and adapt to this.
          
          Love!

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             qwarkposted 13 years agoin reply to this

             Al. Experience life? ..:-) there's little I haven't done. I've been just about everywhere. I'm over 60 and getting bored. I can well understand, now, why some welcome death. This world is tiny, There's only so much that can be experienced; actual and vicarious.
             The only love I've ever known is that love I feel for my son.
             Never knew love as a child. My sires disappeared and my sister and I became foster kids.
             Love is overblown. People, worldwide give lip service to the man created word. In fact, lives are devoted to survival. Except for progeny, there are few who would die for another. Accept the fact that man is earths prime predator and is bound to his genetic engineering. If man doesn't take control of his evolution and eliminate the "need" for predation, and nature takes it's course, it would take a couple hundred thousand yrs for this complex life form to sublimate its natural propensity to kill.
             We are doing what comes naturally.
             There is no possibility at this moment in time that man has any possibility to experience immortality.
             Give us a couple million more yrs of successful life and the potential does exist.
             Thanks for the reply.    :-)

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                alberichposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                Thank you for a very personal and open reply, well, you may still have a whole lot to experience and love is one thing.
                
                And as Buddha explained: It only takes a fraction of a moment to be enlightened into nirvana, the insight is so simple and obvious, and yet the distance to fulfill it, are not nearer for a Bodhisattva than the most primordial being.
                
                Thus, if you think the concept of evolution is a good solution, then you only have to open up your mind fully and realize what you already know within and add it to what we now  know understand and act upon. For instance, take the concept of love; understand how you really relate to it, learn how other people relate to it, add what you would like it to be, and act upon it.
                
                We can get whatever we want it is just a matter of knowing what it really is and then focus on it. (Simplified)
                
                Qvark, be as astonishing magnificent as you possibly are able to be!
                Love!

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    tritrainposted 13 years ago

    It turns out my immortality was just a spelling error.
    
    Immortal..immoral...meh.

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