What use is prayer in natural disasters?
- Baileybearposted 13 years ago
0Prayers? really? Those poor people need food shelter and medicine not prayers, i'm also very sure they would told you the same thing!
Which would leave us in the current example with god as a psychopath. It is not about man or god being partial, it is about outrageous claims made by religionists about natural disasters when they can't see their own psychological positioning.
That has never been a goal. I don't wish people to bow to my wisdom, nor will I bow to religion. No, my greatest wish is that we all grow as much as we can every day.
irony is that people who face disaster most of them have been highly religious and prayed regularly...prayer and disaster are unrelated...yes it is good way of "feeling good" ...so in that way it works...
- khmohsinposted 13 years ago0
Believing in God is believing in a Father who loves us. Our Bible says He made us in His image, and that we are the children of God. (if we follow Him)
Those who believe God is a powerful loving Father know that He will help in a situation and that He can affect the future's outcomes.
Those who don't believe in God, I agree. I wonder how they think it will help.Nice quote. Unfortunately you need the entire Bible to understand and translate all the reasons.
Very well done. You made God look bad to people.Then, by all means, use the entire bible to explain that quote other than what it states. Can you?
Put simply, the God of creation says, They are to respect their father and mother - if they don't respect them and rebel as a heathen send them to me.
Don't forget that if God is there then death is a transformation. God is not evil for telling people to send the disobedient ones to Him for a talk.
I could understand how you don't understand. You don't even believe He is real, and therefore death is the end of the line.
We created cars, and if it turns on it's own when you hold the wheel straight... You get it fixed. God's the mechanic for people.
Never heard "Send them to their maker.." ?
That's not even a lesson on the Bible, just common sense.
Probably meant, "Send them to me, before they get worse."
No matter, no more time to waste on you. Enjoy your reply.
That would be incredible selfish on their part as prayer does little more than make people feel better about themselves as it does absolutely nothing for anyone else.
So, if it takes someone else praying for one to do something, then that too is just an action to feel better about themselves, especially if they aren't doing it for the plight of those in Japan.You mean, am I showing just how immoral and unethical your good book really is and how dangerous it is to mankind?
Forget the book, prove God doesn't exist. I can't see Him isn't proof.
Forget the word of your god? No need to bring him into this discussion? You'll tell us all what we need to know?
Glad they have you beelzedad.
hope they can recover, the place is in bad shape. All my best wishes.Beezledad I think you make random eratic statemnents intended to provoke or agitate and you have the nerve to acuse Christians of being violent?
Pot calling the kettle black isnt it
Cant speak for anyone else (like you are doing) but I have never killed my children ,and I dont force anyone to believe in what I believe in ,not do I teach my kids to disrespect atheists or anyone who chose to believe in whomever.
It probably isnt going to happen ,but it would be mature if you recognise the facts.In other words, you don't follow the word of your god, you do as you please and then tell us that we are to follow the word of your god in order to be saved. The hypocrisy never ends.
A myth.
I really do hope it is further away, a bad person like me would be in sooo much trouble in close with your god.
You seem to miss that in signaling any intervention of your god, you are condemning all those who died.The Bible is Earnest's "documented" answers to prayers, but He's concluded that document an exception from the pile.
I should just stand aside and let you speak for me.
And, many more are dead today. Notice that praying has the same effect as not praying.
Nice twist Beelzedad, My statement was not applying to those who are dead.
Have a happy day. Of course, I know, but it should hav applied if you wanted to make your statement valid.
I'm very well thank you.
I cannot understand how one can give a god "credit" for burying babies alive in a natural disaster. What is that saying about the dead? That they were sinners and god wanted them wiped out? Even the unborn and newly born? Or is it OK cos they were gonna grow up to be atheists?No Joy, it is you who carries the chip.
Or maybe they just have a heart and faith in a God you personally don't believe in. They don't call you ridiculous for not believing. And no one has proof that God exists, or doesn't exist.
Maybe we shouldn't be so quick to judge? As so many tell Christians not to do.
Just remember the countless numbers of things unseen prior to our intelligent technological advances.
And once you shut your mind to something, you'll never see it true until it slaps you in the face.
I know your stance is firm, but again not just for you.
There are actual evidences that people muster away with explanations. But when you start to accept a few things, the proof comes out the woodwork. God reveals to those who diligently seek with finding Him in mind. Don't ask me why or how, but I've seen it over, and over, and over again. Before I finally believed myself, and after.
Notice as well how the more intelligent we become, the smaller and more powerful the things we create are. Then look at your body and see if it isn't more complex than the most highly advanced piece of machinery on the planet. It even self-repairs. I want a car to do that. It's not about fear, and Hell, and God being bossy. It's about something outside of our knowledge that happened where we changed from what we should be, everyone equal to each other in love. . . to disobedient, selfish, and so on into a domino of what we are today. The domino effect is not just a fun setup with blocks. It describes how operating systems with malfunctions in the information of their designs come to failure. On Windows operating systems, you get a single error. This leads to two or so. Then the two errors become a missing system file. Which in turn leads to a failing program, that aids four other programs. And in turn crashes the system over a span of roughly four weeks. And to no avail, Re-install required. Why? One little flaw.
God is good and gives, and I'll admit He sounds like an over publicised joke because of the light people shed on Him. But the Bible has insights only available to those who really spend time to find them. Not searching to prove it wrong. Adam and Eve could do whatever they wanted subtract one thing, no matter the metaphor, they were happy. But disobedience rendered them flawed, and then the domino effect of a single flaw in a system. Look at today's world. Just like Windows... One error, mass failure.
And why is it so hard to believe when the human body itself starts out as two cells? Just the same humanity started out with two people. Moses certainly didn't know anything about cells or the human body beginning in that fashion, and yet we are called the body of Christ, which started way back then, not after Christ came. The Bible talked of Christ before you ever get out of Genesis.
The truth is the world is full of lies. Lying is not a natural thing, as we should have no need to lie if we are loving. But God is nothing but truth. But we can't believe the truth because we've learned that people lie, and that we must decide when things are unreasonable that someone is lying. In the case of the Bible, hundreds of people. But they aren't lying. Not a single one. It is a historical account of the chess game that God has set in action to blind side Satan and every other pawn on the board in order to save those of His body in service to Him, so He may again give them the goodness He wishes to give.
Course I'm sure someone will 'logic' or 'reason' it to death. They will simply prove the point.
Love you all...
~Daniel
I was addressing the lot of them actually. In my apology and otherwise.
I was simply replying to mockery being better than war, which it is. But the lesser of two evils leads to the war. Just as the battle may be lost and the war is won. Many battles are in essence personal wars. I just find it very 'loaded' ground as your never sure when a betty will go off from the slightest wrong step.
I certainly was not 'coaching' you by any means. There are plenty others of which would deserve that much more so than you. Not only that, but my statements are only available to those who will accept them. Unlike those who demand things, I for one 'actually' follow God's rules of love, and for two am very well aware that demanding words are like attempting to shove the horses face in the water, in which case he simply runs off with your saddle...
Doing something helpful and praying are the things Christians are told to do. Unsure about anyone else. But to just pray and say "I've done my part" is ridiculous and lazy on any Christians part. Unless they physically can't help in some way, or maybe financially or whatever the case may be, praying should be with, not the only thing they do.
I would have thought that by now, after all the carnage caused by natural disasters, and the horror that follows, the idea that prayer helps would have died of natural causes!
Very kind atheist you are to be so open as to allow others to their opinion without trashing it. That is not very nice Earnest.
I'm very unsure at what your trying to imply. I simply said I think it unkind to sarcastically remark about something important to another group of people. And I'm unsure, but He doesn't believe in my God, and the sarcasm is still noted. What is it that I said wrong exactly?
Apparently you are correct. The Japanese Emperor has just said he will pray for Japan.
Hi earnest, really? That's very good. I have been watching CNN regularly to keep posted on what's going on.
As you may have guessed, I listen to the ABC here in Australia.
.... and the BBC out of London which includes specialist Asian and European stations.Thank you. I love you too.
I give God the glory for he truly deserve it. I have witnessed the power of prayer in my life and in the lives of others.We've witnessed the power of prayer recently, just like we witnessed it on Boxing Day, 2004. Notice that hundreds of thousands of people died and no amount of prayer made any difference?
God's will changes at times when those He loves ask for mercy. Though the natural order of things set in place by time may bring about harsh things, or when a person does something bad to someone such as kidnapping. The family praying for their daughter to come home safely may be granted God's mercy to change a circumstance and make an exception for those who try to serve Him and beg Him for mercy. It is His will that changes by means of love for those who pray to Him. Of course He's not going to sacrifice His master plan of salvation or something of that nature, but the above situation is a good representation of why and how prayers work. Unless you refuse to believe.
And I love you baileybear.. I love every person on the planet.I'm guessing you want me to be God?
And I don't understand how my sentiments are hollow. How could you possibly know how I felt about humanity? I did not state I want to marry you. I stated I love you as an intelligent person with ideas, thoughts, family, feelings and much more I'm sure. Cringe away, I'm sorry that love is disgusting to you, but it won't change anything.
Let me guess by the way... God is responsible for that because why? Because He sits in the seat of ultimate authority? I'm certain He will answer you when you see Him, and your not the only one with those questions. That is also not the only bad thing that happens in this world. You say God should bring justice all the time, yet Hell is not to exist? Is the murderer in your scenario to go to Heaven? God gives every man his time on earth to do good or evil. When that person dies, then judgement on whether they looked to find God (Jesus Christ) to fix the disobedient way they were given through the genes of Adam, and whether they 'actually' attempted to do good. We are to try to be as loving as we can and to do good to others. I'm guessing there is a problem with a repeat rapist and murderer going to Hell?
I don't see how anyone can miss the point. Christ Jesus was the 'fix' for all of mankind including Adam and Eve. Anyone who will accept we are imperfect and tell God we need Him, and will attempt to do what is good is accepted by God.
The murderer certainly didn't care whether he was evil, or whether that evil hurt anyone at all. Many times they perpetrate the same acts multiples of times over and over in their lives with NO concern for others bringing utter horror to people who try to love and be good. So God sees NO remorse and no concern for others. No love. Is He to allow that man into Heaven to continue his wonderful attacks? If someone "NEVER" changes and will ALWAYS be cruel and mean and hateful and ALWAYS hurts others, then I don't think it wrong to punish them at all. Heaven is for those who love the God who controls it and those who know we need Him. We are to love and to do good to everyone to the best of our ability. And when we get mad at each other, we are not being loving, and God doesn't like it. Therefore we will need God's grace to 'fix' us before we are to step foot in Heaven, which the murderer will never enter...
That would seem to be a fair comment.
This made me laugh
On one side they claim god being highly powerful, ugabuga controls everything including time and on second side, gods time will come ? tsk tsk.I would like to see just one conversation on religion where one of my points is argued instead of a goddunnit. I argue about religion with a good knowledge of the subject, where is the counter point?
I can never get a believer to discuss brain chemistry and how it effects belief, mind sciences and what we know about religiosity in relation to the mind, discussions by religionists about Lawrence Krauss and other religious detractors opinions and why they are wrong, a religionist who has read "the hedonistic imperative, or anything else about the human condition and how it relates to the discussion, the subconscious and how it fits in to belief, or anything other than "the good book." It makes me feel they just don't read anything that disagrees with them. I will discuss the bible and quote it, why nothing from the other side. (Apart from a discourse with one religious hubber. just curious, no one else seems able to broaden the discussion to include any other information. I'm just about over it.
Closed minds?I think you are pretty safe Joy I won't report it.
... and I thought only my parrot loved me!
Eric is a green person/parrot. He is smaller than a cockatoo and a very noisy bad little bird!
When he is very bad he bites and screeches as loud as a fire truck. I hate him! Not really, but he is a little turd! He bashes cats, dogs and people.
Hey ernest. Don't get mad and leave already. You are very intetesting.
Hey curious, I hope the last word in your post wasn't a Freudian slip!
- So sorry. I swype and come up with the oddest words some times. I think you are definitely interesting. You have good thoughts.
Thank you, you are too kind. All three of my little grandchildren buy and sell me daily!
I dunno Joy, the eldest twin girl has already asked me who made the big bang. She saw it on TV apparently.
I have allowed all my kids to learn about anything they like including religion. No takers yet. My Chinese son (adopted) was born in PRC and bought up without a god, He was a chorister in one of our largest churches for 6 years! Guess who drove him and went to all his choir practice with him.
I secretly love to give them lots of freedom of expression, I get to hear so much kid stuff, and it is truly a beautiful thing. Children reduce me to tears of joy at times. Must be gettin old and soft!
Kids definitely have a unique and refreshingly honest outlook. No shame, or age, required for tears of joy in my book. Just means you appreciate the important things in life.
The little boy is six, his twin sisters are 5. They are too cute for words! You are spot on, kids lay it on the line. I heard the younger twin mumble "Silly granpa" the other day, then she flashed me a brilliant smile! I was being silly but did not expect to be called on it!
Sometimes I wish they weren't so smart!
Baileybear if you dont think prayer helps ,easy answer is dont do it -logic
reallyHow profound.
Would that everyone followed such a simple and sage piece of advice we could move on to more interesting and worthy discussions.You ask many questions. I think the best person to ask would be God. If you don't believe in God then I suppose the answer to your questions would prove useless.
vector no talk of weapons on my shift please ,you'll get me shot -oops
..
Oh hey funny you mentioned Micky'D's ,it was actually Walmart,I kid you not, these ladies thought I was sweet( think it was the accent) hehe and what do ya know ,next thing we were talkin about food standards, and free food samples (like where were they) and as we munched and crunched on new Tortilla chips ,I said:
I wonder if Jesus ever had chip n dip this good!!
I made new friends
No bailey bear. The answers are interesting. And enlightening. It has been my observation that the enlightenment is lop sided. Perhaps a different tack is in order? This one appears on a course to no where, but I just got here a month or two ago. I doubt I have been here long enough to make a studied judgement.
Eaglekiwi, Exactly. One should allow people to pray in peace who desire to pray. There is nothing foolish about praying. You hit the nail on the mark.
spiritualspark3 has been banned.
He emailed me, and also asked me to post a reply to another person who was participating on this forum.
I do not think it appropriate to do so,so havent.
Takes time to grow in wisdom.
Thats all kids , pass the popcorn plseAbsolutely, in it's entirety, and special relativity as well. I also agree that the speed of light is a constant.
I know what you mean.
Brings to mind a parable Jesus taught:
Unless a person becomes like a child ,(childlike,not childish) they find it hard to accept,believe and not doubt.
Children believe what their father tells them 'faithfully' because he is DAD!
Thats what Jesus was saying..God is our Father and what father doesnt want good things for His kids
Bless you Jerami!
(Sorry Vector ,my post was sposed to be under Jerami -Off with his head. To the dungeons he must go.
Hey Vector ,your humilty reminds me so much of this song we used to sing, do ya know it?
I am loved , I am loved , I can risk loving you
Because the one who loves me most ,loves me the bestAint it grand that even though He remembers we came from dust ,still He delights in us!
Sad news or good news
GOOD NEWS BABY~- kimberlyslyricsposted 13 years ago0
kimberly, Agreed.
"must"?
I make no one pray or make demands of who to pray to if they do. I only ask for respect of the name God. No GDing at the table yes. They can choose what they wish to do at the dinner table so long as it's not a spell with crow legs and frogs heads....mmmm can I have a cup o that witches brew when its finished?
I love me some yummy witches brew!
*licks lips*
You turning the bullet on me? You mean "not allow" me to pray and thank God for my food. Sorry, I can pray to my God with my eyes open or shut, people talking or not. And so can my family. My God hears all of my prayers and no I will not eat my food until I thank Him for it.
They can pray all they want, and I'll be respectful to them. But I'm not going to abandon my own prayers because someone carries a different opinion.
Not allow is a control thing, and I will surrender many things in this life including freedom.. All of my freedom except of my God. I will not deny Him, nor be denied praying to Him. I'd rather die. Yes, I know. Extreme for you. Death carries no weight when you know God is real.
I hope you don't condemn me for that.(I would) second thoughts depends on who hes prayin too..
But its my house ,so generally speakin it my rules
Your gods law says to kill your children for talking back. Which law that you are aware agrees with that?
Yes, your god.
Yes, the facts do follow proof, you disobey your god, that is a fact.
Dont follow you ,but since you dont answer my questions ,guess it doesnt matter
Same with your god, you don't follow him either. Seems we have much in common. I wouldn't kill my children either in the name of your god.
Hey castle. What's up this weekend? All the nay sayers are being horribly mean. That was a wicked harsh post. And I mean wicked only in the most modern vernacular.
Co create with God huh. I thought the devil made you do it.
Ok. I hope I never have reason to make you that creative.
- The Quiz Masterposted 13 years ago0
Trollin trollin trollin.
Liars for Jesus.Morning sunshine.
I see you trolled your way to my pitiful thoughts on the subject. Perhaps you can enlighten me as to the truth? I'm always looking.No, no you are not.
Well, that's an opinion. You know what they say about those here in the states.
Simply because I am not interested in internalizing a jaded and unrealistic view of the world does not mean I don't seek truth. It simply means I am not willing to follow a path I see as not in harmony. I do concede that the truth lies somewhere in the middle.
You can continue to harass me, which is well within your rights. Or go away. Your right too. Or (and this would be my choice) actually share your thoughts in a nonconfrontational manner.
I bow to whatever your decision is on this matter.Dear me. I am not harassing you. Sorry - is it against the law to express an opinion in your country? I did not realize.
I do find you rather funny and am immune to your trolling. I would be interested in what you get out of it though. Is there some pleasure to be derived from doing what you do? But I never really understood peopel who derive pleasure from causing conflicts. I guess I never really understood the Christian mindset so I just do not get the idea of pleasure from conflict. Perhaps you could explain it to me?
Trollin trollin trollin.
Little wonder your religion causes so many conflicts.
The best answer to sum up it all up (IMO) is with one answer :
Faith.
The Christian lives by faith , hope in things 'unseen'.Note it doesnt say 'all things' because clearly we often see change in a person ,or circumstances as a result of prayer combined with other things. Never the less if do some research on the testimonies of certain individuals ,you would conclude at the very least ,an intervention of a divine being
http://www.allaboutfollowingjesus.org/faith-in-god.htm
Prayer is not treating God like a Santa Claus or good fairy ,therefore the 'gimme gimme' notion of requesting $$ to satisfy the 'me' syndrome is not going to happen.What is a troll?
A Hub piece of jargon ,cuz I thought they lived under a bridgeOh you two just kiss n make up dammit
Well the thought of that's going to throw him into a snit.
- klarawieckposted 13 years ago0
Too true!
To give my own opinion on this:
Prayer does not have any use in natural disasters. Asking a being whose existence is uncertain for help isn't even equivalent to sending one penny to help out.
If these people truly wanted to help, then they would send money or aid.
Obviously, if they're poor and unable to send anything, then they can probably get away with not doing so.
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