What do you think of 1 Timothy 2:12? (NIV)

1. 73

   dashingscorpioposted 10 years ago

   What do you think of 1 Timothy 2:12? (NIV)
   
   "I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man;[a] she must be quiet."
   Do you find any parts of the bible to be sexist? or Do you believe God has his reasons?
   
   

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   Sri Tposted 10 years ago

   The bible was written by men. Need I say more? Man always wants the edge over others. In this case, he uses religion or his interpretation of what "God" wants. Women are equal but they have been conditioned by words and violence since ancient times to see themselves as not equal or greater than men. Some women do break free of it.

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   1. 73

      dashingscorpioposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Very true! The Bible contains a variety of 66 books written by approximately 45 different writers over a span of about 1200 years. All written by (men). Clearly this had some bearing on how most women were portrayed.

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   2. 86

      gmwilliamsposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Of course, the bible was written by men.  Men who reflected the particular prejudices of the day, no more no less. No reasonable person believes that the bible was written by God. God is beyond all artificial boundaries, H/She .....is UNLIMITED.

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3. 60

   FatFreddysCatposted 10 years ago

   If I told my wife to shut up because the Bible sez she "must be quiet," she'd kick me square in the nuts. Haha

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   1. 73

      dashingscorpioposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      FatFreddysCat, There's also Proverbs 21:19 (NIV)
      "Better to live in a desert than with a quarrelsome and nagging wife." LOL!

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      FatFreddysCatposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Does it say "thou shalt not kick thy hubby in the stones" anywhere?

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   3. 73

      dashingscorpioposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      No, but there's Ephesians 5:22
      "Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord." Some husbands may be into having their "stones" kicked now and then!

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   4. 86

      gmwilliamsposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Yes, the bible has so many sexist passages, especially the one by St. Paul.  I argued this w/my mother decades ago.  She BELIEVES in the bible, I stated that I DIDN'T because it was sexist. I am against any form of religion for this reason.

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4. 67

   Karen Exelbyposted 10 years ago

   There is a historical reason behind this verse. In the early church women sat on one side of the church and men on the other. Women would shout questions across the church to their husbands and disrupt the teaching. When taken in context with the preceding verse "A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet." 1 Tim 2:11 the meaning becomes clearer. Looking at Heb 5:12 "For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat." it becomes even clearer. Those who are not educated enough  to teach should be quiet and listen. In this case, the women were not educated and not seeking instruction from the teacher, but from their husbands who were in need of instruction themselves,
   The Bible does not discriminate against women. Deborah was a judge who ruled Israel, Esther delivered her people, Ruth, along with many others including Rahab, the Harlot, are in the lineage of Christ. The Proverbs 31 woman was a business woman.
   Misogynistic males try to slant Biblical passages to suppress women, God does dot suppress women .

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   1. 73

      dashingscorpioposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      In most religions (women were not allowed to be educated). The vast majority of women are regulated as helpmates, mothers, or harlots. You'd never hear of a queen with 700 husbands and 300 boy toys via King Solomon. Women are better off today.

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   2. 86

      gmwilliamsposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      God is all encompassing. H/She is beyond gender boundaries.  Gender boundaries & roles are man-made constructs made to subjugate women.

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      wba108@yahoo.composted 10 years agoin reply to this

      There were female prophets in the New Testament, the four daughters of Phillip in Acts 21. I agree with you, Paul was simply addressing a specific issue in a church.

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   4. 71

      Perspycaciousposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      This is strange coming as it does at a time when there were women who were regarded as prophetic.  How would one know unless they spoke?

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5. 81

   Say Yes To Lifeposted 10 years ago

   That's their particular take on it.  Other religions have other opinions.  Anyone who doesn't like this is free to follow another religion.

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   1. 73

      dashingscorpioposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Or (follow) no religion at all.

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      gmwilliamsposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Thank you, Mr. Dashing.  Religion is a man-made construct anyway, instituted to suit the particular POWERS THAT BE at that particular time.

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   AC-DCposted 10 years ago

   This verse, along with other verses around this certain verse means that a woman should have no authority over a church. Women are not to be pastors, reverends, preachers, etc. Saying this, a woman can be very active in church. They just cannot be the head of a church. This is what the Bible says. NOT ME.

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   1. 73

      dashingscorpioposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Even today the Roman Catholic Church does not allow a woman to become a Priest or a Pope. It's kind of an outdated sexist rule. The CEO of General Motors is a woman. The next U.S. president may in fact be a woman.

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      Rich kelleyposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      In the kingdom of God there will be no CEO, Us President male or female. Comparing the world with the kingdom of God goes crossways with the teachings of Christ. We are to be In the world not of it. A submissive servant is the example not the world.

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      celafoeposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Amen Rich,   at least they now have one correct answer

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   4. 86

      gmwilliamsposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Of course it is OUTDATED.  The Roman Catholic Church is one of the most misogynic religions around.  It is against any form of women's control of her destiny as evidence in its prohibitions against contraception & abortion.

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      AC-DCposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Celafoe..... so I am wrong in my interpretation of this verse? Please elaborate.

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   6. 73

      dashingscorpioposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Rich Kelley, The bible says "On earth as it is in heaven" which implies we should following the same rules. I was not comparing locales but rather the treatment of individuals. "Love thy neighbor as thy self". That's the ultimate in equality.

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      PlanksandNailsposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      All authority has been given to Jesus Christ as Head of the Body. No man, or woman. The hirelings called pastors, reverends and teachers have made themselves kings and lords in their man-made church system, but in the Kingdom they are non-existent.

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   8. 67

      Susan Guinnposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      gmwilliams  ALL scripture is given by inspiration of God & is profitable for doctrine, for reproof,for correction & for correction in Holiness. IITim 3:16 God created mankind in HIS own image, the image of God HE created them Male & femal

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7. 86

   gmwilliamsposted 10 years ago

   
   
   The bible was written by men.  This precept is based upon the gender relationships and roles in the historical context of that particular time.  In many ancient cultures, women were seen as subordinate & inferior to men.  However, the more conservative, dogmatic, traditionalist, & fundamentalist religionist still believe that women are lesser than men, basing their contention on the bible.   
   
   Yes, the bible contains many passages inferring to the lesser status of women.  To reiterate, it was written by men who viewed women as somehow blemished, even inferior.   Now, I am digressing.  The more conservative, traditional, & fundamentalist faction of Christian religions still believe that women should be submissive to male authority.  Some factions of the Southern Baptist religion assert this premise. 
   
   The Roman Catholic religion still have prohibitions against women in more authoritative positions such as priests.  It even have strict prohibitions against women being in control of their reproductive destiny i.e. contraception & abortion.  It premise is that women should defer to men because the latter is preordained to be leaders while women are preordained to obey.........& serve.  There are some Christian religions who view women's more dominant roles in society as an affront to women's more traditional roles as wife and mother. 
   
   It is no mistake that the Roman Catholic Church holds Mary as the model for womanhood.  To the church, she was unobtrusive, subliming her needs to the male figures in her life.   In the more conservative Christian religions, girls are inculcated to sublimate their own needs, placing them last & that males are more important than they are.

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   1. 73

      dashingscorpioposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      I didn't think it was a coincidence that there were no female prophets!
      Anyone who studies the history of how the bible was actually "put together" during the canonization process isn't likely to assume it's all "factual".

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      gmwilliamsposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Of course it isn't.  The church fathers wanted the bible to conform to their particular religious mantra. Points that were considered contradictory to their particular prospectus were intentionally left out. All aware people know this.

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      Sri Tposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      I don't know about all this mess.Yall better dust yalls bibles off and get in line with the word! lol

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   4. 73

      dashingscorpioposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Sri T, I'd be shocked if you even own a bible! LOL!

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      techygranposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      There are indeed female prophets in the Bible--
      Old Testament:
      Miriam
      Deborah
      Huldah
      Noadiah
      Isaiah's wife
      
      New Testament:
      Anna
      The Daughters of Philip

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8. 67

   Susan Guinnposted 10 years ago

   God had a perfect plan in the creation of man and women. It is not fair taking a verse out of conext, you have to view books & chapters as a whole. Paul said, For the man is not of the woman, nor the woman of the man. For neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man” (1 Corinthians 11:8, 9). Women were created as a helpmate. Galatians 3:28 is certainly in harmony with 1 Peter 3:7 which makes it clear that women are “joint-heirs of the grace of life.  Having said that women, being the wife & mother in the home, she is to manage the household affairs. And he is the head of the wife and she is to be willingly in subjection (harmony)  to him (Ephesians 5:22, 23). Now, he should lovingly allow her the freedom to exercise authority in the management of domestic matters, as God has ordained it.  Now, absolutely yes would be my answer... women may teach (Titus 2:3); and they may, in certain ways, even teach men. Teaching in singing,(Colossians 3:16), and privately, in conjunction with her husband. Priscilla was involved in teaching Apollos (Acts 18:26). But a woman may not assume the position of teacher, with the man subordinated to the role of student, without violating a New Testament command. With above scripture, Men should play the vital role in the church however, women lead in many other areas...Prayer,hospitality, teaching in harmony,good works and deeds, raising Godly children, pleasing wife...Let us rise up and call her Blessed!
   Romans 16:1-21.Phoebe was a church official (deacon); Junia (KJV), a woman, was an apostle and thus certainly occupied a place of authority in the primitive church (Romans 16:7).4.Deborah was a prophetess of  Ephraim, she publicly proclaimed God’s message to the children of Israel. (Judges 4:5)  In Philippians 4:2-3, Paul comments that Euodia and Syntyche labored with him in the gospel. To name a few...Sarah, Rebekah, Leah, Rachel, Miriam, Deborah, Abigail, Ruth, Esther and many more.  So woman have played a vital part in spreading the gospel. Women are vital in God's work.  Oh yes and about the forbidden sin...Eve believed Satan's Lie, and Adam sinned due to his weakness...no blaming here!

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      techygranposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      and please don't overlook the weathy woman, Lydia, who is said to have had the first Christian church in her home in Thyratira... and other wealthy women, such as Joanna, who looked after the disciples' material needs, actually described as "apostles

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   PlanksandNailsposted 10 years ago

   This verse cannot be isolated on its own, but must be interpreted from the surrounding verses in context. The words in Paul's letter in this chapter is about correcting inappropriate behaviors, first for the men, and then on the women because there was a lot of anger and dispute that was hindering the teaching of the Gospel. In this particular verse you quoted, Paul addresses particular women about domineering, seizing authority and possibly wearing sensual attire that they were doing it in that instance. Paul's words were a disciplinary action towards men and then women at Ephesus.
   
   The only on who has ruling authority in the Body of Christ is Jesus. We are all equal as brothers and sisters among the Ekklesia. It is only those in the false Church system that have hired men who domineer and rule over their pew minions for personal gain and take this particular verse out of context as a means to muzzle woman.
   
   Paul draws a correlation by referring to Eve being deceived by false teaching and this was a reminder to the Ekklesia of the effects of deception.
   
   The fact is that this verse can apply to men too as it is about keeping a peaceful and non-distracting environment for the purpose of teaching the principles of the Gospel.

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10. 72

    Tusitala Tomposted 10 years ago

    It certainly sounds very sexist to me.  My version of the Bible says: "But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over a man, but to be in silence."   Who wrote this? I wonder.   Obviously someone who feared that a woman or women would make him feel inferior.   That quote certainly shows it here.
    
    It's hard to believe that sane person of common sense would adopt such a stance but many do - especially in the Middle East - though it's not restricted to that area of the world.   
    
    I think such writings do a great deal of harm, if only because the people who read them don't have enough intelligence to understand that these are the writings of other men and not some divine being.

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    1. 86

       gmwilliamsposted 10 years agoin reply to this

       Give this man a 100 for this spot on answer! 100!

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       dashingscorpioposted 10 years agoin reply to this

       "the people who read them don't have enough intelligence to understand that (these are the writings of other men) and not some divine being." - Very true!

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       gmwilliamsposted 10 years agoin reply to this

       The bible was meant as a metaphor.  It is a book of  history and stories.  It was not meant to be taken literally.  However, that issue is totally amiss w/some people!

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