Americans are "extremely worried" about the country in 2022
I sat this morning sipping my savory coffee reading Facebook looking for humorous quips, cat and pup videos, intriguing discoveries of history, science, and life hacks, of course auto racing, and posts of friends sharing life. Then I wandered to what am I most hopeful about and, too, most worried about. I thought along the lines of personal, regional, then jumped to national, and finally worldwide since I have friends in different countries.
I did some looking about if what I was hopeful and/or worried about was in line with others. I discovered an interesting article of many linked below. Consider this article is before Ukraine became a paramount change to concerns affecting everything.
So, what do you think? Will 2022 be a time of hope or worry?
Mood of the Nation: Majority of Americans are "extremely worried" about the country in 2022 by APM Research Lab (01/12/22)
https://www.apmresearchlab.org/motn/hope-worry-2022
Another interesting article
Americans united in worry over political divisions, but not much else, poll finds by Roll Call (2/3/22)
https://rollcall.com/2022/02/03/civilit … iden-poll/
Edit: Another interesting article/poll from Ipsos (12/17/21)
Do Americans really expect 2022 to be a better year?
https://www.ipsos.com/en-us/news-polls/ … redictionsI think back to another year characterized by extreme turmoil, 1968. Vietnam abroad and political strife at home.
I am not optimistic regarding this period because the lines of partisanship and division are so great. We are now reintroduced to the threat of global nuclear war, one that many of us dismissed over the last generation or two. We are now seeing a global tyrant not far from the 20th century kind that I thought that we have moved away from.
People seem more than willing to dismiss the democratic process and "the rules" to have their way and that way is contrary to the principles of fairness and progress which has always allowed us to have confidence in the future regardless of the problems during Our darkest days, the Great Depression, for example. All of that is disappearing.
The threat against "democracy" is my biggest fear. When those that are willing to unravel the system to get their way are challenging us at the very geographic heart of our nation, that is cause for concern. When tyrannical and authoritarian values and attitudes are now in vogue and seen as virtues and strengths, I have cause to worry.
Yes, TSmog, there is cause for concern, in a big way.In my view, we are a nation deeply divided. The last president was anti-Government overreach to a good extent. We that appreciated Government staying out of our lives truely felt more comfortable with an administration that in many ways provided less Government overreach. The new administration has ideologies that promote Government overreach. So, to put it mildly --- vinegar and oil don't mix, well.
The new administration's governmental overreach is widely felt in all aspects as a stimulus to prop up our economy. Which some feel caused the deep inflating that we are seeing right now. I Could go on to list a mile-long list of the new administration's overreaches, but won't due to sounding redundant.
So, for me, I am feeling that over the past 6 years we have dealt with oil and water, and it has left a society that is fearful on many counts, depending on the individual.
So, what do you think? Will 2022 be a time of hope or worry"
Generally worry, as the polls you offer have shown. Personally, I have hope that the 2022 elections will sweep, and bring back a bit of the stability I felt under the last Republican administration. Because I was very pleased with the direction the country was headed. My main worry is getting to November without any more damage to the Nation.
I don't see any solution at this point in our history to mend the "Great Divide". The country has split due to vastly opposing ideologies.
I enjoyed both articles." the stability I felt under the last Republican administration." Stability? January 6 and an outgoing president who wouldn't even attend the inauguration of his opponent. The last administration tore the fabric of our nation to shreds. Stability?
Kathleen,
My comment in regard to feeling stable under the last Republican administration gave my view of the entire four years of that administration. I made no mention of the Jan 6th riot, which was a couple of hours of a four-year period I referred to. Naturally, I was as upset, disappointed, and well ashamed of this display of violence as most Americans.
My comment was my view, my truth about how I felt about the four years of the Trump administration. I certainly don't feel the few hours of riot would sway my view. It is clear we come to an opinion very differently. Four years versus four hours...
You shared your view, well taken.When it comes to instability over those four years I would have been a lot more concerned about the nearly unending series of riots, all over the country. When a single city has violent rioting, every night for months on end, it cannot be considered "stable" at all. When we see long term efforts, particularly the violent ones that were common, it is not "stable" (BLM "protests" come to mind). When our citizenry demands, violently, that we remove police from their neighborhood or that of others, it is not stable.
There are many signs that our country is in a period of massive instability, and those signs were perhaps most common during Trump's period. Not from his actions, but from general unrest and dissatisfaction of a President many did not like or accept. When we see such activity (vs general talk and complaint) it is not a sign of stability.
We are not stable; we are on the cusp of massive changes in our society.Much of the rioting and instability was being manufactured from the top down.
There are textbooks written about how to destabilize a government, it is no surprise that those efforts were used on America.
Follow the money. The money comes from key individuals who have Billions to play with, they in turn fund a variety of destabilizing efforts through various non-profits.
In addition to any government efforts by the CIA or FBI or who-ever that give marching orders to a variety of institutions within the country.
One should look at historical examples, such as how Ukraine had its Orange Revolution, the Serbian's their Bulldozer Revolution, and so on.
George Soros, billionaire hedge-fund manager, together with the National Democratic Institute, an international arm of the US Democratic Party and through the Soros Foundation, supported many protests throughout a variety of nations to cause unrest and the overthrow of governments, from Georgia to Lebanon to Ukraine.You make a good point, but I was speaking about how I felt in "my world" so to say. The riots did not really affect me. We had a police chief that nip it in the bud quickly. We did have a large protest at our capitol but it was peaceful, and no violence occurred. I long ago gave up on liberal cities and their problems. Did the summer of love bother me? Yes, but I felt comfortable due to the stability in my community. Was your community affected by the riots? If so I can see where you would not feel the stability I felt.
Hey, as I said I felt safe, I felt the economy was good, and I felt that the previous administration was addressing many problems, too many to list. But that is just my view. I can honestly say I felt pretty dam good under the previous administration.
In regard to Trump not being accepted by some, that was a clear, fact.
But was that my problem? I guess you are correct this to some would be a sign of instability. I was able to sit back and just appreciate what I felt were the positives that I saw happening in the Country.
I can fully agree we are not stable at this point in any respect.
Are we on the cusp of a massive change in our society? I don't think so, I think the people will right the ship. I have faith in the American people. Yes, it's been pretty screwy as of late, but I think Americans have had enough of the "change" this administration has been advocating.
At any rate, what will be will be...
In my assessment, inflation is a worry among Americans in 2022. People are concerned about the "power of purchase" & cost of living regarding the diminishing dollar. Costs regarding necessities are rising & some people have to do w/o certain necessities in order to make ends meet. This especially applies to senior citizens who are on a very limited income.
The upper & upper echelon of the upper middle classes aren't so much affected by inflation. They still have the means to live comfortably & beyond. However, it is the solidly middle class who is affected by inflation. This class is wondering what to decrease in order to make ends meets. Inflation has a devastating, even paralyzing effect on the 3 lower socioeconomic classes i.e. the lower middle, working, & lower classes. These aforementioned classes are the ones who have to do without in order to make ends meet.
Even though some Americans are worried about political divisions, the smart Americans realize that they are getting s*******d by both parties. There are some Americans who believe that the two parties don't care about their socioeconomic predicament. They assert that the politicians are enrichening themselves at their expenses. These same Americans are turning to populism & want a third party who is more attuned to their needs.
Younger Black people feel that the Democratic Party hasn't solved their issues. They believe that the Democratic Party is for everyone except them. They are turning away from the Democratic Party because of this.You really are quite insightful, directly to the heart of it.
This is why we got Trump in 2016. It is why we will get change in 2024.
Lets hope whoever it is has the demeanor of B. Clinton or B. Obama with more ability to make change than Trump had.
Where to start, I was watching the Nickelodeon channel with my THREE YEAR OLD grandson today and it was loaded up with commercials about an upcoming episode of BABY SHARK featuring Cardi B. Yes that Cardi B!
My daughter showed me one of her videos. It is border line porn and the lyrics...not any better.
At first I thought the kids will not know who she is, hers will just be the voice of a character, okay, I can live with that. But no, there's a picture of her being shown during the commerical and she is being promoted in it.
WHY!?!?!?
So there's that while my Governor is being accused of being... {well, name it} because he dares to protect Parental Rights and keep sex talks out of K-3 classes, because he feels as most Parents, they are much too young to have the talk and the talk should be given by Parents, when Parents feel the time is right!!!
MSM is calling it the Don't say Gay bill, although the word isn't in the bill and the obvious intent is to protect Parental Rights {to know what goes on in their child's classroom} and to protect young children.
In today's warped world, trashy Cardi B gets early access to impressionable children while the Gov that dares to care gets trashed.
We aren't in a good place!Well I always monitored and decided what my children would be able to watch under my roof as they were growing up. Would you like the government to reach into our airwaves and control television programming too?
I really enjoyed this. For me it is a time of worry. I'm not sure we can take many more years of the Biden administration. The food and gas prices for me as a senior are horrible. Praying for a very red sweep in November.
Followed !We need to sweep these over age 80 relics of another era out of DC.
Pelosi, Schumer, McConnell, the Whips, the President we are talking people who have been in DC between 35 and 50 years!
They are not the solution to anything, they are the problem, regardless of party. They are fat cats set in their ways and too old to comprehend the damage they are doing to all Americans.Me too! The poor are suffering the most, and seniors that live on a small income. But, Joe said we all need to buck up and be ready for food shortages. LOL
I have great faith we will sweep in Nov -- and have a brand new Republican President in 2024. I look forward to not being frightened of what this man will do next.
The problem is the deep state Left and also Right.
Our parties have been tainted and polluted.
How can we get back to out true roots, party wise?
- form pretty New Democratic/Republican parties and by-pass the
Ugly old ones?
Could we bypass the shadow government by regrouping ourselves according to our true wants and desires?
Wouldn't that be great?
Sadly, impossible without a truly out-of-the box leader to come upon the scene.
And with our luck that would be the Antichrist.
I'm not as worried about inflation since the 19 countries who use the Euro report a 7.5% inflation rate, right on par with our 7.9%. This, to anyone with a brain, signifies that it's a global problem caused by supply chains and pandemic recovery. The comical accusations that this falls on Biden, while ignoring when those supply chains were broken or how many stimulus packages were passed that added to the problem.
Limited government is fine, but when we elect leaders that undermine its basic principles, as we had with the last administration, that is the greatest danger to our country currently. An unstable autocrat like Putin or Kim Jong Un are a close second.
Congress needs to address the laws pertaining to immigration. The remain in Mexico policy made sense and should be put into law. Legal immigration is good, but the penalties for an illegal attempt need to be much harsher to dissuade it. We can be tougher but stop shot of creating policies to dissuade that violate human rights like the child separation policy.
Jobs and Wages are up, unemployment is down. The stock market is fairly stable, although not breaking any more records as the global inflation noted earlier is holding it back. The spike in crime in urban areas that began in mid-2020 will need to be addressed more aggressively.
In terms of climate change, energy markets will continue to be a bit volatile as the country looks to increase renewables and move away from gas and oil. That's not a negative in the long run, but should be expected.
All-in-all, the main differences seem to be that everything's now a crisis to the fearmongerers on the right when they do not hold power in the government. Their media makes modern problems out to be an end-of-the-world scenario. This is the Benghazi and E-mail scandal blowup all over again - major issues to the right that ended with no criminality. They sure do know how to huff and puff, but in the end, it's all bluster.Is the family that was making $40,000 and now earns $42,000 making more now than they were before a year of extreme inflation?
I think not, and that doesn't even address whether inflation figures are actually representing what is being seen by the public. Certainly gas is well over that 8%, and so are groceries. Rents and skyrocketed (not risen 8%) and so have other things that we all must have. Perhaps high dollar items like cars and planes have not risen that fast, holding down the official figures.The official figures were something like 24% inflation for all of 2021 and so far this year we have averaged over 7% a month.
For example all Tesla models have increased 25% or more in the last year.
Homes in my area have increased 27% in the last year.
Gas has gone from $1.89 sometime during Trump's final months to $4.29 in my area right now.
The dollar has lost roughly 33% of its value in the last year and a half.Which means that rising incomes don't come close to keeping up, with the possible exception of that tiny minority actually earning minimum wage that have doubled to $15.
Seniors on SS will be hit very hard - I can see a great many that simply won't be able to cope.Exactly Wilderness, my late mother stated OVER FOUR DECADES AGO, that there will be ONLY TWO CLASSES- the very rich & the very poor. It's going towards the TWO class system. Even the solidly middle class feels the bite.
Not only does it not keep up...
Looking at what is going on in Germany, the UK, etc. right now... with prices going up as much as 50% overnight... we are in for a shit-storm when it reaches America.
Imagine going out to buy yourself lunch at McDonalds tomorrow and finding out a meal for one now costs you $25.
German Retailers To Increase Food Prices By 20-50%
Apr 03, 2022 · Just days after Germany reported the highest inflation in a generation ... there have been jumps in purchase prices that we have not experienced before,” a spokesperson for
UK prices are rising from 1 April, from ...
Apr 01, 2022 · Retail prices will go up by 8.9% to reflect the...
Energy bills to rise by over £700 on average for 22 million people in April 2022 This is the highest the gas and electricity price cap has ever been.
Apr 03, 2022 ... with this month being dubbed 'awful April' because of the sheer number of price increases people are having to absorb in a huge ...
A family with a household income of $40K per annum is feeling the bite. This family really has to cut corners to make ends meet. Families must have a household income of AT LEAST $80K per annum to be comfortable. However, in New York City, families with that income feel that pinch, especially with rents the way they are currently. So I conclude that in New York City, families have to earn from $100K-above to be really comfortable.
I'm glad you differentiated between states.
In Florida you can live comfortably on 80k, in NY you are going to go bankrupt or depend on government assistance. Or both.
The value of the dollar is not equal in all areas of the country.
And fewer and fewer are the places you can get by on 80k comfortably.Wow, is that right; people in America with a household income of $40,000 per annum will feel the bite, and that you need to earn at least $80,000 per annum to be comfortable. That would suggest the American cost of living is high?
In the UK the Legal Minimum Wage for full time work works out to around $25,955 per annum, before tax.
However an organisation calling themselves ‘The Living Wage Foundation’, and through their work have encouraged 9,000 UK Companies to voluntarily pay what they consider a ‘liveable wage’ have determined that a liveable wage in the UK is around $27,048 per annum, before tax (assuming a 40 hour working week).
https://www.livingwage.org.uk/what-real-living-wage
I took early retirement 10 years ago, we’ve paid off our mortgage so we own our own home, and my only income is my civil service pension and carers allowance, which combined comes to $20,889 net (after tax); whereas my living expenses are around $18,000, so I’m living well within my means, and living comfortably, including (prior to the pandemic) taking three long holidays (vacations) per year.
So why is the American cost of living so high that you have to earn 67% more than in the UK just to be on a liveable wage?Geez, Arthur, 27k is not very much. How can anybody live in London on that?
You have some low living expenses. You can't really function here at 18k a year. I am on civil service pension as well but the benefits are considerably more generous, they have to be.
It would be an interesting study to figure out how you Brits can get by for so little. When in London years ago, I got the impression that things were twice as expensive yet people made half the income relative to here in the states. The driving factors are housing, foodand sustenance, and for us oldsters, medical costs.
I think about the adage the Brits used to describe American GIs during WWII:
Oversexed
Overpaid and
Over here....Interesting: Yeah, it is considerably more expensive to live and work in London, which is why people working in London do get paid more; known as ‘London weighting’; typically, people on London weighting get paid an average of about $5,200 per annum extra on top of their normal wages. And a lot of people who work in London, live outside of London - where housing is cheaper.
But other than that (outside of London) $27,000 is a liveable wage in the UK; and the first $16,500 that you earn is tax free, you only start paying tax on what you earn above $16,500.
Yeah housing is expensive in the UK these days, whether you are buying or renting; but if you’re renting, and you are unemployed, on a low income, or already claiming other welfare benefits then you can claim what used to be called ‘Housing Benefit’ e.g. your local government pays your rent for you.
Also, if you’re homeless or living in crowded conditions e.g. pregnant daughter and her partner moves back in with her parents in a two bedroom flat (apartment), then you’re a high priority to be given a ‘Council House’; Council Houses are ‘Social Housing’ built, maintained and owned by local government that offers cheaper rent to the needy, and if you can’t afford the rent then you can claim housing benefit.
In the light that housing is very expensive these days the Conservative Government has introduced various initiatives to help ‘first time buyers’ to get onto the property market. Back in the 1980’s Margaret Thatcher changed the law to give Council House Tenants the legal right to buy their Council House from their local government at a discount price e.g. market price less all the rent they’ve paid over the years.
Our current house that we bought on the private market, was an ex-council house when we bought it; built in the 1930’s, and well-built with large gardens.
Other government schemes to help first time buyers is the ‘Lifetime ISA’ introduced by the Conservative Government in 2017. An ISA is a bank savings account set up by the Labour (Socialist) Government in 1999 that’s tax free interest. It pays a high rate of interest, and unlike any other savings account, the interest is tax free.
The Lifetime ISA is a special ISA set up by the Conservative Government in 2017 whereby you are allowed to add a maximum of up to $5,200 a year to your ISA, but you can only cash in this particular ISA either when you buy your first house, or at age 60; at which time the Government will give you a grant that’s 25% of however much you have in your ISA.
The Lifetime ISA https://youtu.be/blcUybVwYqo
As regards food: Yes, if you buy readymade meals from takeaways, like McDonalds, or a Fish & Chip shop then eating is expensive. But if you cook your own meals then eating can be relatively cheap, especially if you buy most of your groceries from shops like Aldi or Lidl.
And when it comes to medial costs, in the UK all healthcare is free to everyone at the point of use, it’s all paid for by the Government from taxes so we don’t even have to worry about paying any medical insurance, because there isn’t any in the UK.
Since taking early retirement from the civil service ten years ago I have been living quite comfortably on my carers allowance and civil service pension of $20,889, and yes my living expensive is only $18,000; albeit we paid off our mortgage when I retired. So over the last ten years, as well as all the holidays, we’ve invested in having the whole house double glassed (windows and doors), and last autumn forked out for solar panels and wall battery to produce and store our own electricity and thus cut our electricity bill.
These last few weeks I’ve been busy renovating our bedroom and en-suit bathroom, and we’ve placed an order to have it carpeted with an Axminster fitted carpet. An Axminster or Wilton Carpet being the most prodigious and expensive carpet you can get in the UK; a carpet made from the finest wool that will last a lifetime. An Axminster carpet costs about $120 per square metre (square yard), compared to other good quality carpets that only cost just $40 per square metre (square yard).
Axminster Carpets was founded in Devon, England in 1775; a weaver learnt the skills of how Turkish carpets are made, and on his return to England from Turkey he bought that knowledge back with him to set up looms in a town called Axminster, Devon, England to make top quality carpets from the finest wool using the same technique used to make Turkish carpets. Another weaver, did the same thing in 1741, but set his business up in Wilton, Wiltshire, England.
Axminster Carpets Introduction https://youtu.be/ZpeEhgKCCzI
So we’ve had plenty of money to splash out on luxuries. And this summer I reach ‘State Retirement’ Age, so I’ll also be getting my state pension from this summer, on top of my existing income, pushing my total net (after tax) income to $30,684, which is far in excess of what I need to live comfortably.
And also, when I get my state pension that also entitles me to free bus travel.
That being said, in the UK, in spite of all the social and welfare benefits available from the government, and free healthcare for all (at the point of use) we do obviously have poverty in this country e.g. single working mum (working part time), or an elderly person who has little or no works pension so their main income is just the State Pension etc. it’s these people who are going to suffer with rising fuel costs and rising food prices.
P.S. I love your quip about American GI’s during WWII
As a federal civil service employee, we had locality zones allowing for a premium on salaries to adjust for the high cost of living areas, like San Francisco.
It has been crazy here Central Florida as of late. The 4 bedroom 2 bath house that I once rented when we arrived in the area in 2014, went from $1050/month then to $1800/month now. It has been so bad that the dreaded discussion of rent control is being talked about in Orlando, home of that extortionist little rodent, Mickey Mouse. But this is America, speaking of rent control is like so many expletives strung together.
It is only because of the prodding of my wife, that I decided to settle down in this region and buy a house. We got into the market before the worse of the price increases. I pay 18k a year for the mortgage, and that is still much cheaper in the long run than renting within this precarious market, where the only certainty is that prices are going to rise.
We have tile floors with floor rugs for comfort. Living in Hawaii for 3 years, it is problematic to have carpeting because of heat, humidity and the tendency toward mold. I hate yard work, but with the wife, it is Nag, Nag, Nag, so I maintain a large yard lot in exchange for supper. That is a lot of work and I am not getting any younger.
We live in a semi rural area with plenty of raccoons, possums, with an occasional deer sighting. I have been warned about bobcats and such, but even though we've had alligators in the small river channel behind the house, I haven't been seriously injured yet. Living in the "sticks", if you don't have reliable private transportation, you are in trouble.
I told the wife if we get hungry there is more nutrition in a can of sardines and a small store bought salad than what you get from anything McDonalds serves. If you are resourceful, you can get by cheap on food. My wife, named after the notoriously extravagant French Queen of old, is the equivalent of her ghost once she is let loose in the supermarket. I have to keep a tight rein on the Wallet to avoid her tendency toward impulse spending.
I still work with the Fahrenheit scale, and have not yet made the transition to Celsius. Unlike Hawaii, it still can get cold here. Anything below 45 degrees start to make people nervous, there is that orange crop out there. For the most part, winter is the nicest time of the year, the heat and humidity abates quite a bit. Temps in the upper 70s and lower 80s have generally been the rule.
The U.K. Enjoys a great deal more subsidized services than we get here. The housing crisis, as it continues to run its course will find more people on the street with no where they can afford to live. What people get paid at a Walmart may fall short of what one needs to pay the monthly rent. But, the Brits, world renown as the example of civility would never have piles of people sleeping on street corners, but it can happen here.
Oh, BTW, that quip came from a film called "Yanks" released in 1979. Check it out sometime...
Credence2The average UK rent (excluding London) is currently $1,410 per month, and in London its $2,313 per month.
The current average UK house price (outside of London) $358,183; which means a monthly mortgage would be $1,518 monthly payment; which is $18,216 per year.
So it would seem that rent and house prices in the UK are on a par with America. So it’s a good job people on low income can claim housing benefit e.g. where the local government pays their rent; or otherwise we would end up with lots of ghettos.
Our house is in the suburbs (urban city of Bristol) but we on the edge of the Green belt, just a five minutes’ walk away, and we get plenty of wildlife in our garden, including, hedgehogs, squirrels, foxes, toad, frogs and newts and birds of course.
In the UK, it doesn’t matter where you live, rural or urban; you are always within easy walking distance of a good public transport system; so a car is more of a convenience than a necessity.
I assume from your description you wife’s name is Marie-Antoinette? (“Let them eat cake”). Quite a contracts my wife is quite frugal; she shops around and buys from the cheapest supermarket, which is quite easy to do without leaving your home thanks to the FREE Supermarket Comparison website.
The Supermarket Comparison website lists all products for all supermarkets, and their current prices, allowing you to shop on line if you wish, and at the end it will tell you which supermarket would be the cheapest. And if you didn’t fancy physically visiting the Supermarket in person you could just place your order on-line and often have it delivered from the Supermarket to your door for free delivery if you spend more than x-amount.
About 20 years ago I built my wife a brick shed to use as a food store (which where we also have two of our freezers) and I did her food store out like a kitchen e.g. kitchen cupboards and worktop. My wife uses that food store to buy food in bulk when it’s on offer e.g. baked beans at half price; which saves us about $500 per year on food, albeit we’ve always got about six months food supply in our food store. I also like gardening, so I grow all our own vegetables (except for potatoes), enough vegetables each year for a year’s supply; hence the extra freezer – and that saves us another $500 a year on food. So our food bill is actually quite low.
I’ve only known Celsius since childhood, so when Americans quote Fahrenheit I have to look it on a conversion table on the web to understand it. Generally winter in Bristol where I live is often around 5c (about 40f) these days (warmer than they used to be) and our summers prior to the 1990s rarely got much above 20C (70f); but in the past 20 years (global warming) summer temperatures of 30C (86f) and above are quite normal these days.
Yes, I think you are right, the UK does enjoy a greater deal more subsidized services than the USA; which obviously does make a difference e.g. reduces the risk of people ending in abject poverty and living on the streets.
In that respect I would image that the carers allowance I get from the Government must seem a bit alien to Americans. Because my wife has back issues, which makes it a little difficult for her to walk any distance or stand for too long, she gets disability allowance from the Government.
One aspect of this benefit which American might find odd, is that the Disability Allowance is NOT means tested e.g. anyone who is disabled or partially disabled is entitled to it regardless to their income and savings.
And because my wife gets disability allowance it means that I qualify for Carers Allowance; which is $4,752 per year for doing most of the housework and the cooking for her – which effectively means that the Government is paying me to be a househusband!
Below are images of our food store shed at the bottom of our garden that I built for my wife about 20 years ago:-
The photos are a beaut, Arthur, nice construction work.
Food storage shed? When I was in the U.K. And Europe generally, during the Seventies, one of the differences that struck me was that people there tended to buy fresh more often and relied far less on refrigeration than what was common stateside. It never would have occurred to me that you have a separate structure built to hold surplus food provisions. Is that a correct assessment?
Yes, Arthur, we have Medicaid for the infirm and elderly of little means and to get it you have to prove both. My wife was on it prior to meeting me, once she married she was no longer eligible as my income exceeded the maximum allowed. Seems like our wives share the same kinds of medical infirmities.
Yes, remove the Marie prefix and you have her name. We have spoken about getting a back up freezer.
My spouse gets 'cravings' for things and she will not be denied, snacks at all hours. She likes all that pickled, fermented stuff that don't ring my chimes.
We have services that will deliver groceries, but the wife's says she wants to squeeze and fondle vegetables herself to insure freshness. So old habits still die hard.
The UK average price for a home probably pretty comparable to our average nationwide.
I am fortunate to live on a federal pension that is considerably more generous than Social Security. Much of the provisions that I current enjoy are grandfathered as I entered service early enough, because after 1984, anyone coming in would have benefits that are not generous as for those that came before.Thanks, it took me three months to build the sheds (one shed divided into two, one half my wife’s food storage shed, and the other half my DIY workshop); and it only cost $1,000 (mainly for brick and cement) to build by hand from scratch – the costs kept down mainly thanks to an old couple who ran the old local DIY store happened to sell their shop so they could take retirement (at the moment I started to build the sheds), and as a parting gift the husband donated and delivered to me all the timber and glass I needed e.g. the original windows (as in the previous photo) were recycled glass from the plate glass display shelves in my old local DIY shop. Since then, when we had our house re-doubled glazed a few years ago, I kept our old double glazing windows and replaced my shed windows with a couple of them, see photo below.
Yes, you are right, most Europeans do tend to prefer fresh food rather than frozen food; so I guess in that respect we are a little different to the norm.
Yes, it is a correct assessment; I did build a separate structure to hold surplus food provisions. The main reasons for the surplus food are twofold:-
1. It allows my wife to buy food items in bulk when they are on offer e.g. three months’ supply when an item is half price. We don’t have just a choice of 1 main food store like Walmart in the UK, we have a choice of 17 Supermarkets, all competing with each other for our custom; the competition made more acute with the free supermarket price comparison websites. So consequently, in buying food when it’s on offer means that (with the food storage shed) we quickly build up a six months food reserve, which saves my wife around $500 a year on groceries.
2. I grow all our own vegetables (and some fruit) in our back garden (except for potatoes); and come harvest time we quickly end up with 12 months’ supply of veg that we then blanch and freeze.
In fact we are a little different to the norm in that we actually have three freezers:-
• Fridge Freezer in the kitchen
• A 10 cubic foot freezer in my wife’s food store for when she bulk buys, and
• A smaller chest freezer for our home grown vegetables.
Sorry to hear you wife also has similar medical infirmities to my wife; and for her not to get the Medicaid must make it difficult and stressful. I think I would be stressed out if we had to pay for our healthcare, especially considering how frequently my wife has to see her doctor these days, and with me having to make periodic visits to the hospital for routine check-ups because of my illness last year, when I was rushed to hospital in an ambulance and spent three weeks there.
Likewise I and my wife have a different food taste, which makes cooking less flexible. These days I do all the cooking because of my wife’s bad back, and need to prepare a meal that satisfies both of us:-
• I’m a vegetarian, my wife isn’t
• We both like plain English food, but my wife doesn’t like spices, onions or mushrooms, whereas I do.
Most of the time I try to cook healthy, but our favourite dish, which I do once a week as a treat, is the very British dish of ‘egg, chips and baked beans’; eggs being lightly fried (sunny side up) and the chips being what Americans call ‘fries’.
Yeah, I can understand your wife wanting to fondle the merchandise (fresh fruit and veg) when shopping; that seems quite natural. Before I started growing our own vegetables my wife used to like walking down to our nearest ‘Green Grocers’ on a Saturday to fondle the fruit and veg (fresh from the local farms) before buying.
My works pension would be considerably higher if I’d waited until I was 60 before retiring; by opting to retire at 55 it meant a 25% cut in my works pension, but even at that reduced level it was still enough to live on quite comfortably for ten years until I also get my State Pension. So as much as I loved my job - I thought, why should I work another 5 years when I can retire comfortably at 55 and enjoy my retirement for longer.
Likewise, our Conservative Government has meddled with our pensions over the years:-
The pension scheme joined when I joined the civil service (and which was quite good for its day) was negotiated between the Labour (Socialist) Government and my Trade Union in 1973. As part of the pension agreement was a legal clause stating that no future government could alter the terms or conditions of the pension scheme without the consent of the union (ego its members).
So Although Margaret Thatcher (Conservative Prime Minister in the 1980s) tried, she couldn’t change the pension; she was prevented from doing so in the courts.
However, in 1992 John Major (the Conservative who took over when Margaret Thatcher was forced to resign) put an offer on the table that was difficult to refuse e.g. giving each member an opportunity to voluntarily give up their existing pension, and have all its benefits transferred to a new pension scheme that was more generous; although without the no tampering clause.
After looking at all the options I decided to move to the new pension scheme because it meant that I could take early retirement and get a pension that’s two thirds of my annual salary, whereas on the old scheme it would have only been 50% of my annual salary; it seemed a no brainer to me.
Anyway, as far as I understand, a few years after I took early retirement the Conservatives have since made pensions less generous than they were; but they have made other improvements e.g. as you change jobs (employer) your works pension now follows you, so as long as you work most of your working life you should still end up with a respectable single pension, especially when you add it to your State Pension as State Pension Retirement Age.
Below: My wife's food store, and my DIY workshop (semi-detached sheds) with our old doubled glazed windows being recycled when we had the house re-doubled glazed.
Arthur, regardless of the gifts that helped, your sweat equity labor determined the result. While living in Hawaii, my wife had me build a chicken coop under her specific blue prints and specifications. I am "all thumbs" when it came to these sorts of projects and it took months. So, I have to admire anyone adept at the DIY projects.
It is interesting to note your term "on offer" translates for us as "on sale".
Fortunately, I get enough from my pension to compensate for my wife's loss of her Medicaid benefits. "Uncle Sam" pays 75 percent of our medical insurance premium under my Federal retirement arrangement, that helps.
My wife does the cooking and still favors an Asian bent in the food we eat. Introducing ingredients, vegetables and herbs that I, heretofore, was not familiar with. In Hawaii, eating like most of the locals who shun the established Walmart supermarkets in favor of smaller outlets and food stands around the island was her style. When I do come down with a cold, she has her own elixir that she has me drink, it is enough to "gag a maggot", but the nostrums seem to help.
Arthur, most interesting how our lives are so much in parrellel.
One thing in common on your side of the Atlantic and on mine, Conservatives always want to "mess" with your pension.
I retired under the Civil Service Retirement System, which was initiated in 1920 as a way to encourage experienced professionals to remain in federal service. Under its basic provisions, you could be eligible for full retirement at age 55 with 30 years of service. I, leaving at 55 years, had 33 years of service, my 4 years of prior military service is included in the calculation. I get roughly 63 percent of my highest salary attained while in service, that includes annual "COLA"s to help with inflation. There are variations to the program. I knew Air Traffic Controllers, who under different rules, due to the stressful nature of their work could get it all at 50 years of age with 25 years of service. These guys I knew were paid well over 130k while working, with some making over 100k in retirement a year. That is fabulous, I was not so lucky but did okay, regardless. Under this system we did not pay into Social Security. So what SS we did get was a pittance from the periods of time working out of the Federal service. There is a similarity here between this and Military based Retirement where you could do "20" and get out with some annuity under age 40. How useful or lucrative that is depended upon your rank, or in my case, your "grade" at Retirement.
So, now I introduce Ronald Reagan, our nemesis, and the contemporary and equivalent to your Margaret Thatcher. This man always said that "Government was the problem". Not long after his 1981 inauguration, he pledged to reduce the cost of Government starting with Federal employee benefits. They introduced what was to replace CSRS, the FERS, Federal Employee Retirement System. Reagan and those Republicans would have mandated it for all Federal employing reneging on the previous program, but the outcry would virtually bring down the White House and they knew it. So, they mandated that all new hires after 1984 were automatically under the new program. Those under the "old system" had a choice to convert to the new one.
From experience with relatives, I had confidence that the Federal Government was a fair employer and that I had every reason to anticipate opportunity and advancement if I did my job well. I did not have that sort of confidence regarding the country's private sector. Decisions were crucial, and I not could afford to waste my time with a system that was not going to give me a fair shake, I was aware of that as early as my mid to late 20s. So, I knew that I was going to stay put, so the "portability" of a pension plan meant nothing to me.
I was in my late 20s during the period and already I did not trust Republicans nor Reagan. They touted the new system as providing portability if a employee left the federal service and included Social Security benefits with a 1percent defined contribution pension plan. They had a provision that included that one could participate in the Thrift Savings plan, where deductions from your salary would be matched by the Government up to a certain amount. While Reagan painted this as modern and more lucrative for the Federal employee, I saw a Trojan horse, that cut in half my surefire benefits, instead subjecting me to Wall Street Gambling casinos, assuming unacceptable market risk in regard to my "nest egg". So, when the choice was presented, I stuck with "bird in the hand". I entered Federal employ in 1982, before the window of option and choice closed. I am so happy that I did not listen to Reagan propaganda and kept my original program intact.Yes it is most interesting how our lives are so much in parallel; most fascinating.
Yep, Conservatives the world over seem to want to meddle when in power, trying to look for ways to cut public spending; at the expense of the working class.
It’s good to hear that your pension is sufficient to make up the loss in your Medicaid benefits; one less worry.
In the UK there is a distinct difference between ‘on offer’ and ‘on sale’ in the UK. ‘On Sale’ generally means that prices are slashed because for example the retailer wants to get rid of ‘old stock’ as part of a stock clearance e.g. last year’s TVs. Whereas ‘on offer’ means that the Supermarket has temporality reduced the price on a range of food products to encourage shoppers to shop with them rather than one of their competitors; for example ‘two for the price of one’, or buy 2 and get 1 free, or simply just selling a product at a generous discount (loss leader) such as 20% off or 50% off etc. But of course you need to be savvy and know what the normal going price is for the product in all Supermarkets (so that you know it’s a genuine offer), and double check that you can’t get it cheaper if you bought single packs rather than a multi-pack; hence the benefit of the Price Comparison website. But a lot of shoppers are savvy these days, so it does make it tough competition for the Supermarkets, which helps to keep prices down.
Thanks for your compliments on my DIY. I did woodwork a school, which taught me the basic skills, but I didn’t start using them until we bought our first house, and at first most of the tools I had was what I inherited from my grandfather who had a talent for woodworking, and a small selection of tools my wife bought me as Christmas and birthday presents. When we bought our 2nd house we were quite friendly with a builder we employed to do some structural work for us, and he was kind enough to give me a ‘few tricks of the trade’, and then became close friends with another couple, whose husband was an avid DIY enthusiast, who helped me on a number projects, and in the process I learnt a lot of skills from him.
About 5 years ago, I used all that accumulated knowledge and learnt skill to build the Conservatory that my wife always wanted; photos below.
Yes, I get the impression that Walmart is ‘the’ main Supermarket (food store) in the USA, so I guess they don’t have the competition that all the different Supermarkets have from each other in the UK?
Like your wife, in the UK, if you don’t want to buy Supermarket ‘fruit and veg’ Green Grocers are still quite popular in the UK, and farm shops are becoming quite popular. Potatoes is one veg I don’t grow (except for perhaps ‘new potatoes’) because they take up too much growing space that I can better utilise on other crops. But we don’t buy our potatoes from the Supermarket either, we older them from a local suppler (fresh from the farm) and have them delivered (free delivery) to the house.
Wow, your civil service pay and pension does look good. We didn’t get such high wages in the civil service; about 7% less than you could get in the private sector for comparable work; the Conservative’s Governments arguments being that we have job security and a good pension – which was true. And of course I guess Americans need to be paid much higher wages because of the cost of healthcare in the USA, and not having so much in the way of other social benefits which cuts the cost of living, such as free education for all until the age of 18, free healthcare for all, subsidised housing costs for those who need it etc.
Yes, Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher were ‘two peas in a pod’; they seem to have had similar agendas. I seem to remember Ronald Reagan sacking all the ‘air traffic’ control staff as a way of destroying the unions. Sacking staff and then replacing them is illegal in the UK, so to try to destroy the Unions Margaret Thatcher closed down the ‘coal mines’; the minder union being the strongest union in Britain at the time. Her actions had devastating results on the economy at the time, a ripple effect through all the supply chains, causing millions to become unemployed; and it took over ten years for Britain’s economy to recover from that shock. Ironically, closing the coal mines forced Britain to start to find alternative energy sources long before the recognition that fossil fuels is causing climate change (global warming), and thus a long time before it became the UK’s Conservative government’s policy to transition from fossil fuels to Renewable Energy. But, by chance, Margaret Thatcher’s reckless actions back in the 1980s mean that in that time Britain has gone from using coal to generate over 66% of our electricity to coal now only accounting for less than 2% of our electricity; with the last coal-fired power station set to close in 2025.
Like you, my decision to stay in the civil service was based on a similar thought pattern. I joined the civil service when I was 16, just a few weeks after leaving school. It was the first and only job I applied for. And although I could have earned more for comparable work in the private sector, I choose to stay in the civil service because it was a secure job with a good pension. And I have no doubt, that for me, it was the right choice.
Likewise, I found the civil service a good employer; the pay wasn’t brilliant but the working conditions were good, as was the pension. Not only did I get the six weeks paid holiday (vacation) each year (plus Public Holiday), which is law across the whole of Europe, but the civil service introduced flexible working just a year after I joined.
The ‘Flexible Working’ we had was:-
• You had to work an ‘average’ of 37 hours per week.
• You could start work anytime from 7am to 10am.
• Have lunch anytime between 12 noon and 2pm, anything from 30 minutes to 2 hours.
• Leave work anytime between 3:30pm and 7pm
• You could build up a maximum of 3 days credit in any 4 week period to carry over to the next flexi period. Or be up to 1.5 days in debt.
• You could take up to 3 days off a month, using your credit time you’ve built up.
So I used to work long hours and build up the credit and then have 3 days off work (paid) using the credit I’d built up e.g. a long weekend each month. And when I decided to have a week’s holiday (vacation) I’d use my 3 days credit flexi-time so that I’d only need to use 2 days of my six weeks ‘annual leave’ allowance. It meant in practice, including Public Holidays (Bank Holiday) that I was getting paid to have three months off a year; which I though was rather cool (albeit I was putting in the extra hours to earn the ‘credit’ flexi time.
And of course, for the last 5 years in my civil service career, before I took early retirement I was ‘home working’ 3 days a week, and only going into the Office two days a week; an arrangement I loved.
Although we had flexible working in the civil service since 1974, Labour extended it to the private sector in 2003, whereby any employee has the legal right to ‘request’ ‘ flexible working’; and in recent years (surprisingly) the Conservative Government has strengthened that law to make it more difficult for employers to refuse the request.
Creating a flexible working culture in the UK at John Lewis Partnership (Retail) and Ford UK (Car Manufacturer): https://youtu.be/2Qs0EL6JWD0
Arthur, thanks for clearing up the offer vs sale issue. Once you explained it, the meaning is similar.
Well, I am embarrassed, you could put all this together when I struggle with a chicken coop. Pictures are found here.
https://hubpages.com/animals/Its-for-th … f-the-Coop
The vine on the coop is chayote squash. Hawaii is very fertile, any thing that you planted grew. It is probably the volcanic soil. We had Star fruit, papaya, bananas, tangerines with bumper crops every year. It reached the point that we have to give fruit away by the buckets. The house had serious issues regarding structural repairs, the foundation was cracked and water appeared in varied parts of the cement floor. We suspected that the foundation was compromised. Sea shells just appeared in the yard without any visible source. We were a quarter mile from the coast. The acquafer?, the piping providing water from the outside was seriously corroded. The plumbing was a mess. We had a lava tube in our yard, a hole so wide and deep that you can drop a rock through and not hear it land anywhere, quite dangerous if you happen to fall into one. We were afraid that between the vulcanism and seismic activities we would eventually find the house totally demolished. The house was already 40 years old, but things wore down quickly in Hawaii. Mice, which were everywhere, got behind the drywall and were eating the electrical wiring, affecting various outlets in the house. It is the first place where I saw rats walking telephone wires, squirrels, yes, but not rats. They defied any and all sorts of extermination and the cat just played with them. It really is a dumb idea to build houses with drywall in tropical climates. Vog or some sort of gas that emitted from the volcano played havoc with my wife's asthma problems. All of these circumstances combined forced us to leave paradise.
The truth is that Walmart takes a chunk of the grocery store market with Amazon getting ever increasing share. But, not totally, we have "Winn Dixie" and "Publix" stores in the area, where prices are a bit higher but, if one placed a premium on selection and service, they continue to exist because there are customers of that nature. I am one of them. When I shop for not that many items, I go with Publix. I don't like shopping and they have people at your beck and call to guide you, if products are available and where they are located. I could spend all day looking for things at Walmart with no help available. My time is valuable, I don't want to waste it rummaging around a supermarket.
There has been a lot of controversy regarding compensation for federal workers, many say, considering their benefits, it was too generous. But for the professions, attorneys, doctors, etc, they fell considerably short of what was available in the private sector.
While my entry wage amounted to a starvation wage, I was able to advance and could later say that I was being paid pretty well. At the highest levels of my profession, contracting, opportunities were available at places like Boeing, Martin Marietta and McDonald-Douglas, but I liked the security of a iron clad pension and benefits and the pay was not that bad, so I could well afford to take a little loss.
A brief background, The US Bureau of Reclamation, my former federal employer, has as its mission managing water resources across the West. The American West is quite arid and increasing the availability of water resources and dealing with allocation of same regarding drinking, agriculture, recreation uses, etc was critical. The politics of water was and is big business in the West. Its headquarters are in Washington DC and Denver. I operated from the Denver area office.
As a grants and cooperative agreements contracting officer, I possessed a warrant that authorized me to financially bind and obligate the government.
We receive 100 proposals from universities and private sector entities across the country regarding methods of desalinating water, for example. The proposals had two parts, a technical part and a financial part. The Bureau had engineering professionals in its ranks that were able to sort the wheat from the chaff, determine if the labor mix and technical proposal as a whole was viable, as only they could.
After, the engineers eliminated the "crackpots" and impractical. I would get involved evaluating the proposal from the context of if the costs were fair reasonable to the government. Why am I paying a student aide $150.00 an hour? Do the overhead rates reflect that common in either the private sector or public institutes of higher learning? Are indirect costs rates properly assigned and allocated? Using reference materials available to the profession, I sort out the "padding" and "fat" in the proposal and will return it to the offeror with a request for explanation and or revision. Only with my approval and signature, do we have a consummated cooperative agreement.
I had the opportunity to work with the many Native American Tribal governments, particularely in Arizona and New Mexico. It was politically touchy as they insist on a certain amount of autonomy and found my questions about financial layouts in their proposals as prying.
I had attended a lot of "ribbon cutting" things, or what is foundly remembered as "dog and pony" shows. Universities with large minority populations within the student body or considered as underserved submitted a proposal to the Bureau to create a curriculum to train engineers that could assist in the future with the ultimate goal of better conserving sparse water resources. The proposals could go well into the low 7 figures. Big shot, Washington "mukidy mucks" would be there to bring favorable public attention to the events. I was almost obsessed with a particular spelling error in the proposal that would be officially presented to the receiving institutions by the Agency Commisioner, the "big cheese". Pubic vs Public, no spell check could catch it and i did not want embarrass my boss and his boss.
We had an official 5 weeks paid annual leave, and a credit hours program where we could accumlate time off hours for working overtime, without cutting into the official allotment. Four hours of paid sick leave accumulates for every 2 week pay period. We had flexible work schedules from 6am to 6 pm. I usually came in at the last minute, 9:30 am and worked till 6. Nobody really paid attention, but we had an hour lunch break. Nobody bothered you as long as you got the necessary quantity of work out on time. We were professionals, you know.
The pay scale below was what was in place at the point of my retirement. If you add 16 percent that would reflect what those salaries are today.
I retired at the top of my professional series as a Gs 12, Step 10, the GS scale is based upon complexity and responsibility associated with the job title and the steps represented increases based on years in service. My supervisor was a GS14 step 5.
So, for retirement, they take the average of your top 3 years of salary which for me was roughly $6000.00 less than my ending salary. They multiply it by a coefficient corresponding with years of federal service, for me roughly 62 percent. It has been known to be as much as 80 percent for those that do a full 40 years. But I was not going to wait that long. My 33 years was long enough. You had to be at least 55 years old to get the full benefits. And when did I leave? 55. So, if you add roughly 20 percent in COLAs over the past 12 years and about 7 percent of that revised total in Residual Social Security benefits my wife an I receive, that would give you an idea.....
https://www.federalpay.org/gs/2010/colorado
(Denver-Aurora scale)
Arthur, it is funny that you bring up Air Traffic controller debacle of the early 1980s. I was in the middle of it. The Union was complainly about unfair working conditions and Reagan fired those controllers that did not come back to work. I wanted to sympathize, but I couldn't. I was making barely 15K as a purchasing agent GS 5, 1984. When the offers went out for rehires, I was going to break the picket line, become a "scab" as it were. The entry level was 40 K, a tremendous amount of money to start anywhere as long ago as 1984. For that kind of "dough", I was willing to live with an inconvenience or two. I took the aptitude test that involves certain spacial abilities and some appreciation of geometry and trig or at least some aptitude for training. I passed it and had to move quickly as 30 years was the maximum age that you could be considered. And, I was almost 30. The training was in Oklahoma City and I was invited to come train at the Government's expense. I turned it down, as I had to realize that I was coming out of a case of Graves Disease, overactive thyroid. And I had to be realistic as I probably couldn't handle the added stress associated with the job. That is why they were paid so much. So, I decided to stay on the career track with the incline that was not as steep.
As always, I enjoy our conversations. Thank You, Arthur.
Credence, the chicken coop is larger than I imagined, and I love the vine growing all over it; it makes it look rather picturesque. Shame about the house though, having to move from paradise.
Britain has a very damp climate, so to keep our houses free from damp a dpc (damp proof course) has to be placed on the brickwork at least 6 inches above ground level, with adequate air vents below the dpc all away around, and the house and ground floor flooring being built on top of the dpc; that way fresh air from the outside can stop the sub-floor from becoming damp. And of course these days with central heating the interior of the house tends to get a little too dry at times; but nothing’s perfect.
In the UK there is no single Supermarket (grocery store) that dominates the market; the share of the market for the top 9 supermarkets in the UK is:-
• Tesco (founded in 1919) = 27.9% share of the market.
• Sainsbury’s (family business founded in 1869) = 15.6%
• Asda (founded in 1949) = 14.4%
• Morrisons (family business founded in 1899) = 9.9%
• Aldi (founded in Germany in 1946, established in UK in 1990) = 7.8%
• The Co-op (founded in 1863) = 5.7%
• Lidl (founded in Germany in 1932, established in UK in 1994) = 6.2%
• Waitrose (founded in 1904) = 5.1%
• Iceland = (founded in 1970) 2.4%
The Co-op (founded in 1863) is a ‘consumer co-operative’ e.g. an enterprise owned by consumers and managed democratically with the aims of fulfilling the needs and aspirations of its members.
Aldi & Lidl are by far the cheapest place to buy food; hence their growing popularity. LIDL WEEKLY GROCERY HAUL £10 BUDGET SHOPPING - https://youtu.be/Aj-Qq_lOreY
Iceland only sales frozen food, so obviously people are not going to go to Iceland for all their weekly/monthly food shopping.
I joined the civil service from school, when I was 16, starting at the bottom of the lowest grade, just a CA (Clerical Assistant); but my ambition was to achieve promotion to EO (Executive Officer) e.g. middle management. I had no ambitions to go any higher than that because as an EO I would be earning more than enough money to live comfortably. Even so just a few years after joining, when I was 22 and still only a CA I was earning enough income to be able to afford a mortgage to buy our first house with my fiancée. The following year we got married, and I got promotion to CO (Clerical Officer).
In time I got promoted to EO (Executive Officer), which is where I wanted to be, doing technical work which I enjoyed. My career wasn't as exciting as yours, but over the years I had a wide variety of responsivity in many areas of Transport and the Environment; one of the most interesting perhaps being technically involved at a high level in the largest privately owned networks (Intranets) in Europe, and one of the largest in the world. The biggest broadband networks obviously being the ones we pay for and prescribe to access the Internet. However, our Government Department, in its wisdom, and initially without government knowledge, laid optic fibre alongside all motorways across England as the motorways were built, and upgraded. That network gave our Department free Intranet Access across the whole of England as part of turning our motorways into smart roads; and it also provided free Intranet communications to our Department (rather than subscribing to an ISP), saving the taxpayer $thousands yearly.
How do smart motorways work? https://youtu.be/2zimOYQl5Wg
Our grade and pay structure wasn’t as neat as yours; in the UK civil service the grades were:-
Clerical:-
• AA (Administrative Assistant), prior to 1990 was CA.
• AO (Administrative Officer), prior to 1990 was CO.
Middle Management:-
• EO (Executive Officer)
• HEO (Higher Executive Officer)
• SEO Senior Executive Officer
Senior Management:
• Grade 6 & 7
Within each grade there was a pay scale of about 10 years to reach the top, similar to your system.
Cool, good to hear you also had a flexi scheme similar to ours, and similar leave.
When I retired the pension was calculated in the same as yours’ except that it was the best of the last three years rather than an average. Although all that has changed now, the new pensions introduced by the Conservative Government, to apply to all, in public and private sector (as a base pension, minimum standards) is not the best or average of your last three years, but your average earnings over the lifetime of your working life; which will invariably mean lower pensions for the next generation to come!
Likewise, I’m learning lots with our little chats.From all the supermarkets that you mentioned, we do have Aldi, but its patronage is relatively low and it is seen as a specialty market pipeline to European goods, otherwise not available. There are large markets that specialize in Caribbean and Central American products and produce, which cannot be matched by the larger chains. They do well, here in Florida.
Excitement is a relative term, I have had my moments of sheer joy or terror, but for the most part you just slog through paperwork, pushing pencils.
We all do our bit and have our relative parts to play in improving the overall system and let's face it in our world today, broadband access has moved well up the scale even relative to water conservation. They have been talking about this "big pipe" fiber optics cable, but it will be a few years as the infrastructure surrounding installation is cost prohibitive in rural areas right now.
Correction: it takes 18 years to get from Step 1 to Step 10. Steps 4,5 and 6 last 2 years each, with steps 7, 8 and 9 taking 3 years each.
Curious, have you ever been to Iceland? It has always had this odd allure, sort of in there with Greenland and New Zealand.
Arthur, If you asked me that was a dirty trick, watering down the value of the pension in your society. The average wages earned over a lifetime is considerably less than what is would be at the point when you were at the "top of your game". Your "Conservatives" are as rotten as the ones we have here. That was a big "rip off", how do you bear it?
I am impressed with the "smart motorways". As things have been going, much of what I had seen in your video is still science fiction here, but snippets of the technology appear here and there.
BTW, why are you guys still driving on the wrong side of the street?!!
Thanks for your feedback Credence. Aldi’s & Lidl’s appeal in the UK is that they offer a limited range of own branded products at extremely competitive prices, bucking the trend of other UK supermarkets who offer an increasingly broad range of products centred around a juxtaposition of own label and branded products; in simple terms,, they’re cheaper.
Reference to Iceland: For clarification, the Iceland I mentioned previously is the name of a supermarket chain that only sales ‘frozen food’; as opposed the country call Iceland.
No I haven’t been to Iceland (the country) although my wife has a friend from Iceland, university colleagues from when my wife did her university degree as a mature student in the late 1990s. She invited us over, to stay with her in Iceland, a couple of decades back. But although we had an opportunity to visit Iceland le I declined because I suffer from ‘cold intolerance’ – and because I would go my wife wouldn’t go by herself.
Yep, as you say, ‘excitement’ is a relative term, and most of the time it’s just slogging through the paperwork and pen pushing; although what I liked about my work in the civil service is that no two days were ever the same, each day was different, and each day had its challenges; which kept you on your feet, and your brain ticking over.
Broadband is quite topical, and the UK Government is striving to get high speed broadband rolled out nationwide; although it’s been a long journey.
Back in the 1980’s British Telecom was a ‘Nationalised Industry’ e.g. owned and run by the Government. As a Nationalised Industry any profits it made had to be ploughed back into the business; and back in the 1980’s British Telecom was on the verge of rolling out optic fibre across the whole of the UK to replace its ageing telephone copper wire network. However, Margaret Thatcher (then Conservative Prime Minister) privatised British Telecom before it could do the optic fibre rollout, and as a new ‘Private’ Company British Telecom was interested in making profits for its shareholders than investing in the upgrade of its network; so the proposals were scrapped and it never happened.
However, in the 1990’s the Conservatives deregulated the Industry, allowing private completion. This attracted different in different parts of the country to lay high-speed optic broadband cable in the cities, and then vie for customers in the newly created landline, Internet and Cable TV service (all in one package). Because of the high initial costs of investment in the laying of the infrastructure, all the Companies went into heavy debt, and were salvaged by Richard Branson who bought them all up to create one single nationwide service (Virgin Media) in direct competition to Rupert Murdoch and his Satellite TV service.
Get ready for your Virgin Media installation: https://youtu.be/lexXQGJtvpo
The only problem with Virgin Media is that it is only available in the cities. However, in 2014 the Conservative Government committed itself to rolling out high-speed Broadband to the whole population, even the remotest of villages. It set a target that 85% of the UK population will have high speed broadband by 2025, and over 99% by 2030. Currently around 95% of the UK population now has high-speed broadband.
Ironically, to achieve this, the Conservative Government has ‘Regulated’ to make British Telecom legally responsible to do the rollout, at their own cost; which for connecting remote villages isn’t cheap. Although we shouldn’t feel too sorry for British Telecom because they still have a near monopoly in many areas e.g. apart from Virgin Media, who have their own infrastructure in the cities, all other Communications like Sky wanting to compete with Virgin Media for Internet and land line services have to pay British Telecom to use the British Telecom network.
British Telecom rolls out superfast broadband in Deddington, Oxfordshire, England in 2014; the first remote village in the UK to have high speed broadband (population 2,146): https://youtu.be/wDuK8tpECMQ
Wow, 18 years to get from step 1 to 10, that’s a long time.
Yes, it was a dirty trick, downgrading works pensions for future generations; I’m just grateful that I and my wife’s works pensions are under the old superior system. However, it’s not all dome and gloom, since coming to power in 2010 the Conservative Government has vastly improved the State Pension, and greatly increased it, and protected it with a ‘triple lock’ so that it will continue to gain value in ‘real terms’ over and above the rate of inflations, and lowered the qualifying period for a full State Pension.
Originally you needed 40 years of employment time to qualify for the full State Pension. That has now been reduced so that you only need to work for 10 years to qualify for the State Pension, at State Pension Age, and 35 years for the full pension. Albeit they’ve raised the State Pension age from 65 to 66, and soon it will be 67.
The ‘triple lock’ is whereby the State Pension is increased each year by the highest of the following three:-
• The annual rate of inflation.
• The annual average rise in wages, or
• 2.5% if higher than the above two.
Yeah, our ‘Smart Motorways’ is quite impressive, and it was quite common for dignitaries from all over the world to be given a guided tour of our system, with the intention that they could take some of the ideas back with them to their own countries.
The bit of technology I loved the best, because of its simplicity, was the copper coils buried under the road at 5 kilometre intervals (about every 3 miles). The ends of the copper coils were then connected to our private high-speed broadband running along the side of the motorways.
The principle being that iron moving over copper causes an electric current e.g. the axles of each vehicle. The current would then be fed back to the main computer to provide an instant picture (computation) on traffic flow. The system could detect whether it was a car or larger vehicle, and distinguish between coaches and Lorries by the distance between the axles and number of axles. And the can also determine the speed of traffic and where the traffic queues are and the length of the traffic queues by the time it takes for each axle to pass over the copper coils – Simple, but effective.
Your last question is an interesting question; so I did a bit of research and it seems that the reasons for which side of the road we and you drive on are:-
• Archaeological evidence found in Swindon, England suggest that the Romans (2000 years ago) drove their carts on the left e.g. the tracks in the Roman road, leading away from a quarry (when the cart would be heavier) were deeper on the left.
• As most people are right-handed, horsemen in Britain would hold their reins with their left hand and keep their right hand free to offer a hand of friendship or draw their sword.
• Traffic congestion in 18th century London led to a law being passed to make all traffic on London Bridge keep to the left in order to reduce collisions. This rule was incorporated into the Highway Act of 1835 and was adopted throughout the British Empire; hence Australia also drives on the left.
• As regards the USA. The move from left to right took place in the USA due to wagons being pulled by several pairs of horses. Wagons had no driver’s seat, so a postilion (rider) sat on the left rear horse. This seating position was to allow the rider to hold his whip in his right hand. The left-seated position meant that he could also more easily judge passing wagons. He could be sure to keep clear of the wheels of oncoming wagons and avoid damaging his horses – he did that by passing on the right hand side.
And interestingly, a 1969 study showed that left hand traffic countries like the UK have a lower collision rate than the right hand traffic systems; the suggestion being that this is partly due to humans being more right-eye than left-eye dominant.
So some food for thought on which side of the road we should drive?"The ‘triple lock’ is whereby the State Pension is increased each year by the highest of the following three:-
• The annual rate of inflation.
• The annual average rise in wages, or
• 2.5% if higher than the above two."
This rather loses me in understanding. I get why pensions should go up equivalent to the rate of inflation (all inflation, not just a few products as our Social Security does), but why match the rise in wages? After all, no work is performed, so why an increase in payment?
And the final one, an automatic increase of at least 2.5% - what could be a better driver of inflation than adding money (demand) without adding production (supply)? This sounds like a vicious circle, pouring money into people's pockets to guarantee a higher raise the following year after inflation rises due to that extra money. Round and round, with policies are causing the inflation that gives raises that causes more inflation. And if there isn't enough inflation for a big raise then we'll give it anyway to cause that inflation. Madness!
Or am I missing something? A reason to do that outside of intentionally causing inflation and being nice to people?Funny, Arthur, one of my Graves Disease symptoms was "heat intolerance".
Republicans here say allowing people access to universal broadband is "Socialism". For American conservatives that is an expletive.
Even your "conservatives" are at least reasonable. You give our counterparts here time and they will eliminate Social Security in favor of a privatized system that would be a windfall for the Wall Street, but subject the average citizen to Market risk that most of us can ill afford in these times of such volatility. Social Security's future viable is under a pinch, and the Conservative's answer is to screw the recipients.
We were both lucky to have entered service prior to the induction of a new and less advantageous system.
The CPI (Consumer Price Index) is calculated monthly to determine any COLA for the following year. It was a bumper year for 2022, we got almost a 6 percent increase.
As for driving toward the left, you have provided quite an explanation. This is true in America on the USVI, United States Virgin Islands.
I did not know that Australia drove on the left, perhaps, New Zealand does as well. I have to look into this.
Good question wilderness.
18% of the UK population are on State Pension; most of whom also have their own works (private) pensions. In the short term, whether increasing the wealth of pensioners above the rate of inflation will negatively impact on the economy is questionable? In the long term the sharp increase in State Pension is only going to compensate for the fact that the UK ‘Conservative’ Government has changed the laws on pensions which will negatively affect the next generation e.g. their works/private pensions will be a lot less than the ones my generation enjoyed, so the next generation will be far more financially reliant on their State Pension to pay the bills than my generation.
Yeah, most things in the UK are linked to inflation e.g. works/private pensions, Social Welfare Benefits etc.
However, the State Pension in the UK is a little unique in that it is protected by the ‘triple lock’; which wasn’t set-up by a Socialist Government, but was set-up by a Conservative/Capitalist Government in 2010.
I don’t think the decision to be so generous with the State Pension is just to be nice, or for economic reasons; it’s political. The lion share of the Conservative votes comes from the ‘Baby Boomer’ generation, now in retirement e.g. two thirds of the over 65’s vote Conservative, while two thirds of the under 25’s vote Labour.
If the Conservatives want to win the next General Election they need to appease the pensioners, those on State Pension.Thanks again for your feedback Credence. The only reason the Conservatives are more reasonable in Britain than in America is that they have to appease their voters if they want to win the next General Election.
For example, the Conservatives hate the NHS because it’s pure socialism; but to dismantle it would be political suicide, and support of the NHS is always at the top of the agenda in election campaigns as both Conservatives and Labour vie for votes by making promises to support the NHS.
On the NHS’s 70th anniversary in 2018 the following opinion poll said it all:-
• 90% of the British Public supports the founding principle of the NHS e.g. “Free Universal Healthcare for All, at the point of use”.
• 77% of the British Public believes the NHS should be maintained in its current form.
• 66% of the British Public would be willing to pay more taxes to increase funding of the NHS.
So although the Conservatives loath the NHS they have to be seen supporting it if they want to win votes in the General Elections.
Yes, we do have a reasonably good Welfare System in Britain, based on the sweeping Welfare reforms introduced in 1948 by Labour (Socialist) Government when they first came to power in their landslide victory of 1945.
In the 1980’s Margaret Thatcher (then Conservative Prime Minister) tried dismantling it, as she tried unsuccessfully to undermine the NHS. But in spite all her tinkering, both the NHS and the Welfare System survived.
The Welfare System came under attack again in 2012, when the Conservatives tried to introduce the ‘Welfare Reform Act’. It was in their 2010 election manifesto that if the Conservatives came to power that they would slash £12 billion ($16 billion) from the Welfare System; which would have adversely affected everyone on benefits.
Because the cuts were in the election manifesto it meant that under the British Constitution (The Salisbury Convention) the House of Lords can’t block the proposed legislation. The Salisbury Convention dates back to 1948 (at a time when most peers in the House of Lords were Conservative).
Back in 1948, when Labour passed their ‘Socialist’ bills e.g. Welfare State and NHS to the House of Lords for approval, Lord Salisbury, the leader of the House of Lords (a Conservative) reasoned with his fellow peers that it would be undemocratic for the ‘unelected’ House of Lords to block ‘legislation’ that was in the Government’s Election manifesto and upon which the ‘will of the people’ had ‘elected’ that Government. Lord Salisbury’s fellow Conservative peers conceded the point and allowed the passage of the Labour ‘socialist’ polies through the House of Lords, to become law; hence the birth of the NHS and the Welfare State.
Anyway, in spite of the above, in 2012 the House of Lords did refuse to pass the Welfare Reform Act, contrary to the Salisbury Convention, and just threw it back at the Government in the House of Commons, then over several months the Bill just kept being pushed between the two Houses; what’s known as political ping-pong.
Eventually, David Cameron (then Conservative Prime Minister) then decided that in order to avoid a ‘Constitutional Crisis’ that he would abandon his plans to slash public expenditure on the Welfare State; and in the past ten years since, no Conservative Government has been so bold as to try to slash the Welfare State again; although they do like tinkering around the edges.
• About the Welfare Reform Bill (Feb 2012): https://youtu.be/V7wBuMmjsGU
• Lords Tackles Welfare Bill (Jan 2012): https://youtu.be/Rc1ylxFO9o4
Likewise, the annual increase in works/private pensions and increases in Social Welfare Benefits are all linked to the CPI (Consumer Price Index) for Aug. So whatever the annual rate of inflation is in the August will be used to increase the pensions and benefits the following April e.g. the financial year in the UK runs from the 6th April to the 5th April the following year.Thank you, Arthur,
With gerrymandering of state electoral maps, placing unreasonable restraints affecting working people exercising the franchise, a GOP attempt to take over the very machinery of who and how a winner is declared in an electoral contest, who is safe? They have packed the Supreme Court such that it is nothing more than a rubber stamp for the Wish list of the Right. They will simply neutralize all the sources of opposition. Yes, they will dare to do here what is well prevented within your own society.
You want to how scary things have become on this side of the pond? You just got a taste of "deliberate misinformation" from another thread. We all know very well what fascism is and THEY do, too.
This is a very poignant article and is very well where the Right in America is taking us, and within it perhaps there can be found some explanation for all of this. If this is taken to the extreme, America, no longer deserves to consider itself "first among equals", not that it really ever was.
https://www.salon.com/2022/04/18/bannin … ignorance/
The Right claims that this is a biased article and that they do not actually have this sinister intent. But, their policies speak louder than their words. You be the judge.
We all know the drill and just as Elton John said in a song of his, "I've seen that movie, too."
Yes, ever since the inauguration of Biden, the gerrymandering of the voting system by the Republicans has been highlighted in the British New Media; so we are all fully aware of undemocratic steps being taking by the right-wing in the USA. And yes, it is amazing how blatant the right-wing is in their promotion of ‘deliberate misinformation’.
Democracy and Politics aren’t perfect on this side of the pond either; but at least it works over here. And although there is a wider philosophical gag between Labour (Socialism) and Conservatives (Capitalism) in Britain than there is between Republicans and Democrats in America; at least, in Britain there is honour (ethics) between the politicians of opposing politics, and the different political parties do work together quite well in Committees in Parliament. If only it could be like that in America, then America could be ‘first among equals’.
I fully agree with you, the right-wing policies do speak louder than their words; and that’s not just me being a ‘socialist’, in the UK, according to YouGov (one of the most respected opinion polls in Britain) only 14% of Brits like Trump, and 70% Dislike him. In contrast 68% of Brits like Barack Obama, and only 13% dislike him. Considering that in the last General Election (2019) 42.4% of the voting population voted Conservative, the figures speak for themselves that even British Conservative Supporters don’t like Trump and what he represents.
The Most Popular Foreign Politicians to Brits:-
https://yougov.co.uk/ratings/politics/p … icians/all
I think you are right that 27K is not much! And, I emphatically agree with your 'us oldsters, medical costs". I couldn't decide if to post to your reply to Arthur or to Arthur and wound up here since it is U.S. related.
For the U.S. "The Pension Rights Center reports that half of all Americans age 65 or older have incomes less than $24,224 a year." And, "the average Social Security retirement benefit in January 2022 was about $1,614 per month, or about $19,370 per year." One more tid-bit is "New Report: 40% of Older Americans Rely Solely on Social Security for Retirement Income."
Sources:
What Is the Average Monthly Retirement Income? by Good Life (Feb 28, 2020)
https://goodlifehomeloans.com/resources … nt-income/
Policy Basics: Top Ten Facts about Social Security by Center on Budget and Policy Priorities (Updated Mar 4, 2022)
https://www.cbpp.org/research/social-se … l-security
New Report: 40% of Older Americans Rely Solely on Social Security for Retirement Income by National Institute on Retirement Security (Jan 13, 2020)
https://www.nirsonline.org/2020/01/new- … nt-income/
Regard medical costs "U.S. households led by someone who is 65 or older spend an average of $6,668 a year on health care, according to the federal Bureau of Labor Statistics’ latest data on consumer spending, which is for 2020." So, I ask where does that money for health care come from based on the information for income for seniors.
Here’s How Much Seniors Actually Spend on Health Care by Money Talk News (Sept 28, 2021)
https://www.moneytalksnews.com/slidesho … alth-care/
This post was only meant to offer some info and I have mixed feelings and thoughts to what it means.Thanks for the info Tim, educational.
The one thing that strikes me the most is the horrendous medical costs of $6,668 per year on average that Americans face in their retirement; how can they afford it?
As you know, in the UK healthcare is 100% FREE to all (NHS), so that’s one expense we don’t have; thankfully.
From Government states, 52% of British households receive State support in one form or another e.g. from Child Benefit to State Pension.
Over 18% of the British Population (almost 5th) are in retirement and have reached State Retirement age.
Typically in the UK, 67% of a pensioner’s income is generated from their private or works pension, with the rest being made up from the State Pension and other Governments benefits where entitled.
Only 14% of the working population in the UK don’t make provision for their retirement and thus end up struggling on just the State Pension and State aid.
I found this article which makes interesting reading, and if you read it carefully vindicates all our views, it supports what both you and Credence and what I have been saying, it just puts it all in perspective e.g. if you want to spend lots of money on lots of expensive holidays, buy expensive food and needlessly by loads of new clothes all the time then the sort of figures you are talking about needing in retirement in the UK is over $40,000 a year; whereas, if you want to be frugal then as a pensioner you can live on just $13,360 per year.
It’s all explained in the article: - https://www.unbiased.co.uk/life/pension … ent-income
The government’s most recent data (2017/18) shows the average income for pensioners in the UK to be £15,080 ($19,752) net per year (that’s after you’ve taken away direct taxes and housing costs).
UK Population = 67 million
People in the UK receiving the following main financial benefits from the Government:-
• State Pension = 12.36 million
• Welfare Benefit = 5.95 million
• Disability Benefits = 4 million
• Housing Benefit = 2.9 million
• Employment and Support Allowance = 1.8 million
• Attendance Allowance = 1.49 million
• Pension Credit = 1.45 million
• Carers Allowance = 1.3 million
• Jobseekers Allowance = 264,000
• Income Support = 247,000"As you know, in the UK healthcare is 100% FREE to all (NHS), so that’s one expense we don’t have; thankfully."
That's how it should be here in the United States of America. The current privatized healthcare system has been failing us Americans for a long time, and people are dying inasmuch as they cannot afford it and don't have access to good doctors as a result. If Universal Healthcare works in other English-speaking nations, I don't know why it couldn't work here in my nation. Moderate Independents like myself as well as people on other parts of the political spectrum all agree that something needs to be done to reform our healthcare system here in my nation.It doesn't work here because private insurance companies would rather see folks lose their homes over unpaid medical bills than see a reduction in their outrageous profits. They pour lots of money into the pockets of our politicians to protect their interests
Yeah, the private insurance companies are greedy insofar as they are dangerous. If those politicians who take money from them were somehow exposed, then we all could vote them out of office.
That’s one fundamental difference between American and British politics; is that in Britain it is illegal for politicians to have any financial incentives from businesses. Even election campaigns can’t be funded by businesses or wealthy individuals.
The policing of political funding and elections in the UK are done by the ‘Electoral Commission’, an independent agency that regulates party and election finance and sets standards for how elections should be run; the Electoral Commission was set up by the Labour (Socialist) Government in 2001.
The net result is that politicians, and governments, are NOT indebted to Business/Industry when policy making.
What does the Electoral Commission do? https://youtu.be/T5mg5OceG-IThen the United States of America needs an electoral commission too. It would make a major difference on how everything is decided on Capitol Hill.
TSmog, thanks for the great links. With the rapidly increasing costs of living against inadequate income, I see a crisis on the horizon.
Just under half of seniors live on Social Security, where can they afford to live. My younger sister in Denver is freaking out where, earning $21 per hour, the only available rents in her price range are unacceptably dirty and in higher crime areas of town. She is over 60 now and she is speaking to her minister who may have an option or two.
We held on to Federal employee Blue Cross program and did not take Medicare, it had an increase this year well over the Social Security Cola.
So much for the "golden years", huh?It’s been interesting comparing living expenses here in Britain with that from across the pond in the USA.
Below is a total list of my living expenses which I've copied from my budget accounts:
My Monthly Expenses:-
• Local Government Taxes = £168 ($219)
• Home Entertainment: Internet, landline and Cable TV = £100 ($130)
• Utility Bill (Gas and Electricity) = £100 ($130); albeit that will drop considerably in the coming months as I turn off the heating and we generate more of our own electricity from our solar panels.
• Smart Phones (x2 – one each for me and my wife) = 46.18 ($62) total.
• Water and sewage = £45.90 ($59.83)
• House and Contents Insurance = £22.47 ($29.30)
• Home Entertainment: Netflix = £13.99 ($18.24)
• TV Licence = £13.37 ($17.45)
My Net Total Living Expenses = $665.82 per month; $7,989.84 per year.
• I don’t have any additional income tax to pay because that’s deducted at source by the Government before I get my pension and carers allowance e.g. unlike America we don't have annual tax returns in the UK, as it's all taxed at source; except for the self employed of course.
• I don’t have any medical bills or insurance to worry about as that’s free to all in the UK.
• I have no rent or mortgage to pay as we paid off our mortgage when I took early retirement at 55.
• Although I do give my wife $521 a month ‘housekeeping’; $6,252 per year, and
• I pay for any meals out e.g. while on holiday and for special occasions such as her birthday and our anniversary etc.
• I also cover all the DIY and Gardening costs, and then the surplus income is squirrelled away in an ISA account for a rainy day.
My wife doesn’t have such a big pension as me as she was a housewife and mother for the first 15 years of our married life; so her income consists of:-
• The $521 housekeeping a month that I give her.
• $260 a month rent from our son for bed and board.
• Her disability allowance, and
• A couple of small pensions until she reaches State Retirement age, at which point she will also get the State Pension.
My wife’s expenditure is just:-
• Food & clothes
• Household incidentals e.g. cleaning products, curtains and furnishing for the house etc.
• Christmas
• Car
• Three family holidays a year, and
• White goods and household electrical goods when they need replacing.
And her surplus income is then squirrelled away in ISA accounts for a rainy day.
So all in all, although our income is modest by American standards, so is our expenditure; allowing us to live in comfort and enjoy three holidays (vacations) a year.
Pot meet Kettle.
Nothing... and I mean nothing... will surpass the four years of non-stop insanity proliferated by the "Left leaning" news media during Trump's four years. Nothing. Ever.
It put anything Goebbels came up with to shame.
“Economy, gas and grocery prices, climbing insurance premiums and deductibles, climate change.” — 59-year-old Hispanic man from Michigan, Republican, extremely worried.
“The economy is suffering. Prices are going up, up, up and wages are not.” — 20-year-old White woman from Ohio, Independent, extremely worried.
Yup... that is exactly what the #1 concern will be in November 2022 elections. Barring nuclear conflict.Just wondering if any of you three far-right conservatives are even able to acknowledge the global figures I posted. You all localized it without really understanding the other developed countries experiencing the same thing. Certainly, they all cannot be using Biden policies that drive their own similar inflation.
Why can't it? The two biggest reasons for our current inflation are the massive influx of money into the supply without any return and the COVID lockdown which prevented companies from hiring workers, resulting in grossly increasing labor prices.
Both are Econ 101, and as I understand it both were going on world wide. But that does not excuse Biden's policy to repeat the process here, while adding rules resulting in lower oil production and other hobbles on business.
World war three has been going on, for awhile now, apparently.
Biden in the White House has to be proof.
Q. Why do I hesitate to post such a preposterous idea?
A. Because it is counter to the blind obedience we have been expected to maintain.
How is such obedience working out for us? and yet many remain complacent. However, those who are following Trump are really ramping up enthusiasm for his return,.
and if/when he does ... look out!
https://www.fox17online.com/trump-set-t … n-saturdayTie vote over KBJ !!!! We need to oppose the nomination!!!! She is way too progressive/liberal and will contribute to our downfall.
TWISI"Yet GOP opposition will not tank Jackson's nomination. The 51-year-old judge is expected to be confirmed with full Democratic support and the backing of at least one Republican, Sen. Susan Collins of Maine, who revealed last week that she plans to vote for Jackson. Senate Democrats and the White House have been vying to peel off some GOP votes for a bipartisan confirmation."
------
Looks like you lost again, KH. We don't need the GOP support that I knew that we were never going to get anyway.....
You guys will just have to suck it up, this time....It will be to Liberals' detriment too. They too will loose.
The marketing of child pornography has real victims. There are little babies and children who are physically and psychologically abused during filming. If they survive the abuse, they are ruined for life.
The less you punish the viewers, the more you encourage the buying and selling of these horrible videos. It's utterly disgusting. Maybe liberals can't accept the truth. Of course, some Republicans can't either. This person, a woman, should especially be ashamed: Republican, Sen. Susan Collins of Maine.Just another morsel of agony for you, I have been told that Senators Murkowski and Romney are going to vote with Susan Collins to confirm Judge Jackson's nomination.....
The RINOs are on a stampede, what is a Rightwinger to do?
They seem to get past all the "child pornography" drivel associated with the nominee.Yep, three morsels of stampeding agony.
What the heck happened to Romney?
AG Bill Barr also crumpled.
I heard Pence might run for president.
Gross.https://www.dailysignal.com/2022/04/01/ … sentences/
I didn't know about the Judge's record on child pornography until very recently. Now I understand why all but three Republicans in Congress have opposed her. Her record is sickening.
Romney, Barr, and Pence are cowards.add her to the list
Republican, Sen. Susan Collins of Maine.
Repeating: It will be to Liberals' detriment too. They too will loose.
The marketing of child pornography has real victims. There are little babies and children who are physically and psychologically abused during filming. If they survive the abuse, they are ruined for life.
The less you punish the viewers, the more you encourage the buying and selling of these horrible videos. It's utterly disgusting. Maybe liberals can't accept the truth. Of course, some Republicans can't either. This person, a woman, should especially be ashamed: Republican, Sen. Susan Collins of Maine.
Some people have Hearts of Hard black COAL. That she was chosen by Biden or ? explains why she was even considered. It was Obama who brought her in. Sometimes I wonder if these people were groomed. Used as Trojan horses.
... but I digress with terrible meandering musings.You do realize that Congress writes and gives judges the sentence and guidelines that they use?
Her records showed she went to the minimum. The sentences were as light as they could be. She went against the recommendations of the courts and her sentencing records reveal her leanings toward the criminals.
It wasn't the recommendation of the courts. It was the recommendation of the prosecutor's office. While the laws in these cases have not been updated to factor in the internet. That is how outdated the child pornography laws are.
Reality is that her sentencing is right on par with around 70% of other jurists. But the right doesn't do their own research, instead just listens to the few blustery reps and trusts in their partisan fabrications.
https://www.businessinsider.com/hawley- … rts-2022-3
"Her record is sickening."
And you've gone over each of the over 500 rulings? Looked at the guidelines set by Congress that she used to determine sentences? Special circumstances? Again this is oversimplification. Since you're only interest appears to be advancing partisanship... Here you go..
"Federal appeals court Judges Joseph Bianco of the Second Circuit and Andrew Brasher of the Eleventh Circuit, both Trump appointees, had each previously sentenced defendants convicted of possessing child pornography to prison terms well below federal guidelines at the time they were confirmed"
If and when we properly contextualize Judge Jackson's sentencing record in federal child porn cases, it looks pretty mainstream," wrote Doug Berman, a leading expert on sentencing law and policy at The Ohio State University School of Law.
"Federal judges nationwide typically sentence below the [child porn] guideline in roughly 2 out of 3 cases,"
Maybe we should just rely upon the nonpartisan facts. Your outrage should be directed toward your members of Congress because they are responsible for the guidelines.https://nypost.com/2022/04/02/ketanyi-b … -sex-cases
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/20 … hilia-and/
Once you review all "500 cases" get back to me. Child pornography is not okay. That is the point. Judge Brown Jackson has apologized to perpetrators of child violence. At what point do you realize, that is not okay.
Why do you choose to be part of the good ole' boy team that is the Democratic Party? Do you not realize that once a country turns against its children that country is dead?Do you think that judges can single-handedly change sentencing guidelines? Do a little more research. They are bound by Congress. Yes child pornography is not okay. Bring that up with your Congressional representatives who have a fact over the sentencing guidelines. What don't you understand?
Again just another example of being partisan, lining up behind the party line just for the sake of doing it. Do you not realize that the majority of judges, Trump appointed and others have ruled in the same way as Judge Jackson and even more often so?
And stop trying to pigeonhole my points as purely for a party. My thinking is broader than that and my ability to do the research as an educator is how my views are formed. I don't need to be guided by a party line..Yes, she certainly should not rock the boat.
Or the entire GOP has moved so far to the extreme that one of the most qualified candidates does not warrant their approval because she won't be voting the way they want her to.
So many have no idea of the urgent need to stop the deep-state left/right from destroying the very foundations of our civilized society, including what it values and holds dear: our people and ESPECIALLY our children. That judge could care a fig for the victims of child pornography. She cares about obedience to those who's agenda is to destroy America.
Bill Maher sums up the GOP candidates in 2022 pretty well:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9MX37aA6lMThe GOP is a hot mess. The party is fractured between
Trumpists and RINOS. Most striking though is how issue-less Republicans have beome. Virtually no talk about issues, No ideas and No interest in solutions. Half of the party still doesn't acknowledge the reality of the 2020 election.
The GOP is in an uncivil war, not fought over ideology but over loyalty to the former president; not about public policy or economic solutions but about who can serve as the most unbending conduit of the Republican base’s profound anger. They are, moreover, being played against one another by a former president who’s obsessed with displays of fealty; he is eagerly dividing the party against itself. The GOP primary season has become a replica of The Apprentice: Endless infighting for little clear purpose beyond Trump’s own gratification.I can only hope that GOP divisions lead to its ultimate destruction, otherwise America as a democracy will become a thing of the past.
This conservative feels the same way about leftist woke-ism.
I hope its demise comes long before this Country's.It will --- have faith, Americans are well over all the silly. Anyone with half a brain can see the country is a huge mess, and realize how quickly this administrated accomplished this task. Keep the faith they already are one foot put the door.
You have to realize by now that I have considerably more than half a brain, you have so complimented me several times in that regard.
If we allow authoritarians to take over, what you consider to be a mess will become irreparable. That model is what your side is heralding and holding up high.I consider you very intelligent, one that displays his intelligence as a constant.
How can we see things so differently? Did you feel Trump did not have your back as a citizen? Were you honorably unhappy with his job performance? We have agreed we did not approve of many of his statements, and that he was narcissistic, and we know we at this point can't have it all. But do you really think Trump was an authoritarian? Much of the time he appeared to be making every attempt to make things better for Americans. Yes, one could disagree with some of his projects. But the point is he pushed, he worked, and he in many incidents got good results.
I have made it clear I think it best he does not run in 2024. However, I so appreciated his America first agenda. And I hope the Republican candidate will continue with his agenda. I don't care to turn and go backward. I have no need for seeing a status quo politician back in the White House.
I don't see the Rep party pushing authoritarian agenda. I see them as fighting to keep the best of our democracy intact, in a changing time when Americans want more but want to keep what makes sense, and has worked for over 200 years.The Republican Party was never really the party of Trump. Many disenfranchised Democrats voted for him, many Independents voted for him, he ran a s a Republican and he worked to do the things Republicans ran on... like repealing the ACA... reworking Trade agreements that hurt American jobs... but he wasn't hard right Republican.
He was far more liberal on social matters than Republicans typically are, he went out of his way to help those most in need to get a hand up (not a handout).
https://theblacksphere.net/2020/10/trum … ts-blacks/
Disregarding all that... he was still one of the best Presidents for minorities. Do you think that major companies would have run ads and videos on social media talking about why Black Lives Matter if Hillary Clinton were elected president?
Much of what we saw the MSM focus their attention on, the efforts to fund and support BLM and whip the minority populace into a frenzy was to get Trump out of office. Everything you had seen with regard to race relations and the paradigm shift that took place could be connected to the election of Trump.
Now all that gets swept back under the rug.
Democrats are in power, all is well. We may all be sinking in a quagmire of inflation, taxation and exasperation, but we are all much better off.I feel Trump was one of the best problem solvers that ever lived in the White House. Now we are in a trick bag with a man that could not figure out how to put his shoes on. As I said he was a president that had our backs, and worked his ass off to make a better America for all. It's sad to see some are blind to that fact.
My God the writing at this point is on the wall, this man is unfit to be president, and his handlers are even more unfit to Govern."Disregarding all that... he was still one of the best Presidents for minorities. Do you think that major companies would have run ads and videos on social media talking about why Black Lives Matter if Hillary Clinton were elected president?"
---------
How are you qualified to say this? You are not a member of a minority group and the sheer numbers at the polls from our group certainly did not reflect that the vast majority us were enamored with Trump. Blacks in certain urban centers combined to insure Trumps defeat in 2020. The opinions of the Candice Owens, on the GOP payroll, is irrelevant to the overwhelming view.
-----------
"Much of what we saw the MSM focus their attention on, the efforts to fund and support BLM and whip the minority populace into a frenzy was to get Trump out of office. Everything you had seen with regard to race relations and the paradigm shift that took place could be connected to the election of Trump."
What do you mean by "stir up" into a frenzy? So many of you folks still don't get it , do you? You don't think that we can't see for ourselves the Trump phenomenon, the GOP and where their ideas and policies are leading? We are not people that are so widely and totally manipulated, while all of you see the world in crystal clear reality, why should I believe that?"How are you qualified to say this? You are not a member of a minority group"
I would submit that being a member of a minority group (having dark colored skin) does NOT make you qualified to disagree. That takes effort, study, and understanding of what is happening and why.
"You don't think that we can't see for ourselves the Trump phenomenon, the GOP and where their ideas and policies are leading?"
Trump's policies led to a better life, more jobs and less crime for minorities, particularly blacks, than has been seen at any time in our past. That "your" group cannot see that, refuses to accept the facts and cannot comprehend that you are being "totally manipulated" by liberals and liberal media does not mean it is not true. In this case (improving matters for minorities) your "crystal clear reality" is muddy indeed."I would submit that being a member of a minority group (having dark colored skin) does NOT make you qualified to disagree. That takes effort, study, and understanding of what is happening and why."
Yes it does help, doesn't it.Trump did not get 10 percent of the Black vote, so you think that we are not qualified to say whether someone has been helpful or not? We will be the judge of whether Trump has promoted our interests or not. The arrogance you people flaunt continues to amaze me, and is a big part as to why we are not getting along.
Our "group" is directly affected and is most qualified to judge that for themselves. I won't speak for hispanics, Asians, etc. But, we resent being treated like children on the assumption that we don't know what's best for us, yet you folks, as our worse adversaries , do. We are all going to remain on the "warpath" until your gang learns the meaning of mutual respect.
How do you know that IT is true? The evidence is in the voting and until you can substantive that we are ALL being manipulated, then it is best to keep silent on the matter.
What if I said the same thing about your rabid rightwing, gun nut, fascistic minded people that you are akin with, would you be singing the same tune?
Just who do you think you are? You, this great sage of wisdom on race relations, that lives in Idaho?
I guess that " your gathering all of the facts stuff" is only good when it promotes your side of a debate. Quite disingenuous......
"How can we see things so differently"
Now that is the $64K question. Trumps negatives in my opinion are simply greater than those of Biden, from my world view.But what about the Country? What about those being hurt the most by the decisions of this administration, the poor? At this point, I am just looking at the bottom lines, comparing many variables.
1. do I feel safe?
2. do I feel more confident in the economy?
3. do I feel his policies are helping the people that truely need help.
4. do I see our borders being secured, and or new immigration laws that could help with this growing problem. Not sure why many are not realizing the cost to the nation of this influx of migrants. It's the poor that suffer due to the lack of good border policies.
5. Has the country witnessed any form of healing as Biden promised? I say no--- the divide has deepened and split the country in two, without hope of it ever being mended.
Under Trump, I did not have 1 through 4... I felt the country was on a good path for all.
Sharlee, I have been meaning to get back with you with more detail on your comments.
Centrist does not mean Republican light, I elected a democrat along with its values, not a Republican.
You've got that looney pair of women that do not have the courtesy to keep their mouths shut during the President's State of the Union address. Another clown did that during Obama's term. When has a Democrat ever did that to a Republican president?
You have a couple of Republican congressmen that brazenly attended a white supremist conference in Orlando, recently. Why are not Democrats found there? The fact that they get a "slap on the wrist" by the Senate or House minority leaders does not give me any confidence about the party and its mores. From what I hear, one of two that are unrepentant has been slated as a keynote speaker for a celebration of Hitler's birthday. You can look it up.
I have corrected myself acknowleging that Trump is not so much a racist as a fomenter of the problem which is well intertwined as part and parcel of American society, just like oxygen in the atmosphere, he merely strikes a match to start fires that he callously uses for his own political gain. With so much of the GOP and its adherents under Trumps spell and control, it is impossible to see any daylight or differences between the two.
This article speak a little about Trump and authoritarianism. I don't expect you to agree, but that is how I see things.
https://theconversation.com/president-t … ces-150895"You've got that looney pair of women that do not have the courtesy to keep their mouths shut during the President's State of the Union address. Another clown did that during Obama's term. When has a Democrat ever did that to a Republican president?"
Come on -- Sorry, no one could beat this well-planned silly rude stunt.
Both parties have congressmen and women that they don't approve of, overzealous figures, trying to get their 15 minutes. As a rule, this type fades away and is seen for what they are.
Cred, Republicans aside --- are you in a coma? Come on... If you can't see that our very democracy has been hijacked by a few far-left liberals I think you may need glasses. This bunch is making every attempt to destroy democracy. My gosh standstill spin around and have a look at what a mess the Country is in.
And don't ya think this very bunch is putting the Democratic party in the toilet? Oh my, hopefully, things continue to go as they are going now until fall... The Republicans are loving all the messes that the administration is creating for political ads.
The country is floundering, we need to stop looking to blame, and look for solutions.
And I know you have claimed, that the Democrats are in line with your own ideologies... At this point, I must ask, really?Yes, Sharlee, they are more in line than the Republicans ever could be. It is my opinion that had Trump won, the current circumstances would be no better and would probably be much worse.
Biden is a centrist, more than I would like. What far left liberals are hijacking the Democratic party? I don't know anyone in the Democratic Congress that have demonstrated that sort of influence and power.
Yet, I see evidence of extreme right nut cases in the news everyday, prominently included as part of the GOP ranks.
Rest assured my vision exceeds 20/20.We have our small handful of "nut cases" that would give the lefts nut cases a run for their money. We recognize them by name... We certainly do not push their radical verbiage. But your bunch they are Rockin it... They have captured or should I say pull the strings of the president, and the House Leader. Maybe Joe presented himself as a centrist, but have a look-see at his past. He has always had someone pulling his strings. He always was one to try to ride any coattails that had 15 minutes in the limelight. Most of the time he picked the wrong coat to ride, and never did he follow any centrists. Just think of his idles.
Now, I don't think the Republican party will back anyone that associates with our "nut cases". They are already ignored and pushed to the sidelines.
The Dems just backed the wrong guy, and just can't work his strings 100% of the time, and when he is off on his own --- well not so good.
I actually think if he would have been more of a centrist, he would have had a good chance to do much better. He is a likable guy.
I have a feeling the party is done with old Joe, I note the media is trying hard to get to the bottom of Hunters' dirty dealings. CBS is now on the case. Guess they may want to see how Harris can take orders.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/hunter-bid … -grassley/
The tide had turned, and the media has a new person to destroy. Doo yo think Biden can hold up as well as Trump has?
I like Bill Maher. I enjoyed your link so here's one to return the favor:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05Q1Bzg5zTY
GAHere's another Maher gem; advice for Democrats:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6R5G7pUXIXs
(you tricked me into a Bill Maher rabbit hole. I like how the guy thinks) ;-)
GASome good advice in there.
But we're still waiting for many who went down the MAGA rabbit hole to poke their head out, as Maher says; and come back to reality. So far, there's no sign that they want to stop dating the psycho. No sign that they care to live in reality.
The polling bears that out as it's hard to find a Republican that doesn't believe one of the following:
a.) The GOP is a party of MAGA and anyone that votes against MAGA principles is a RINO
b.) Trump is their preferred nominee in 2024
or
c.) They believe the Big Lie about 2020
The few Republicans that do not fall into one of those three categories, or who did poke their head out, are few and far between. Those that did poke their heads out are quickly expunged from the party via cancellation (Liz Cheney or any rep who voted for impeachment) or death threats (Upton, Mich., Raffensperger, Geo.) - sending the message that poking your head out ends your affiliation with the MAGA party or can subject you to domestic terrorism.
While I agree some civility is the way to go, I disagree with Maher that coddling a party that uses domestic terror as a political tool deserves any graciousness until they can openly admit that following Trumpism was a mistake.
Honestly, not one single conservative at this site would readily admit that supporting Trump as he went about attempting to dismantle democracy was a mistake. Not a one has said that if Trump were the nominee, that the events leading up to, and on January 6, would be a disqualifier. Some have said that they would prefer if he was not the nominee, but not a single one has acknowledged the attempted coup attempt or that Trump is clearly a threat to American democracy. There's a lot of propaganda trying to sell Biden as the destroyer of America, which is a major falsehood.
Many have tried to call the insurrection something else, using Fox News arguments that no one had been charged with sedition - until they were, of course, since anyone who watched the events live on that day could see that the violence was aimed at trying to stop the certification and keep Trump in power.
So many here listen to that news network's propaganda and race to this site to try and sell it here - and then get met with a harsh reality check. 'Biden stopped us from being energy independent!' -heck, I posted an article that Trump brokered a deal in April 2020 to cut global oil production by 20% to raise prices. All we'll see from that factual tidbit is denial or omission in future repeat accusations of blame. That's some serious brainwashing that Trump's supporters refuse to accept reality to cling to their false beliefs.
Perhaps if any can accept that their reality is false, there will be some olive branches extended. For now, many reasonable people that we used to converse with here have just drifting further down the MAGA rabbit hole instead of seeing that they should exit that nightmare." ...they should exit that nightmare"
and stop rocking the boat.If they can accept that their reality is false? I have a different take-away from his thoughts.
I think sensible Democrats should ask why Trump supporters feel the way they do—according to you, (as in generic democrats). The `falseness' of their reality is one of degrees, from Trump devotees that love the man to Trump supporters that love the idea Trump represented. It appears Democrats don't make that distinction. In that respect, you, (again, generic Democrats), aren't very different from the Trump supporters—it's an all-or-nothing position for you.
To ask that "why" question consider that about half of the nation doesn't like the direction our nation is taking on some of the most basic and simple issues; from that we are at a point where there is a debate about what a woman is, to the idea of a UBI.
Then consider the effect the Democrats' self-righteousness has on that half of the nation; you bad-mouth them as poor, uneducated, `unenlightened', deplorables that aren't smart enough to run their own lives.
Think about how little trust that half of the nation has for what the government and the Democrat party present as truth. (a distrust that has proven to be justified—from both sides).
Finally, consider that we all live in the bubble of our life—that is our world. Your bubble, (as does mine and our other forum posters), includes the activity of political inspection. The bubbles of most do not, so their realities, (the ones you claim are false), are based on their life experiences and life position, and, the information they get in their daily lives.
Maybe, a comparison to those infamous `Obama cash' folks makes the point. To many on the right, those' folks represent the Democrats. And it is those folks that label the Right as uneducated deplorables.
Now ask the "why" question and see why the context of Maher's message conveys a different message to me than it does for you.
GAYou see, there is where your perception of how you think democrats see you, and how we actually see you diverges.
If I truly believed you all to be, as you note, deplorable, I wouldn't bother trying to engage you with information I clearly see you being excluded from.
Many can understand why Trump was elected - he was a change from the failed status quo. No one blamed people for wanting to try something different. We have accepted the why, but have moved on to the 'why still?'
Where it becomes hard to relate is after seeing the dismal failures of electing someone so clueless about how our government is supposed to run and the damage done during his term, that people could continue to be supportive. The governing simply for the base and not all Americans, as well as the erosion of norms, the lawlessness, and the attacks on fellow Americans that have become commonplace from the MAGA crowd. Let alone the domestic terror attack on our Capitol.
It's not a why that we don't get, it's the why still.
And that you, who I consider a very educated person, don't see what happened on January 6 as an attack on democracy itself is definitely a point that illustrates how even the formerly reasonable can fall deep in the MAGA hole.Deep in the MAGA hole because I don't agree with your exact analysis of the "insurrection."
I was pissed-off about what happened on Jan. 6 and what I consider to be Pres. Trump's actions that prompted and fueled it. I am also glad to see the rule of law upheld—regarding the participants. I would offer the full list of bad adjectives, from disgusting to stupid, but because I don't see it as a real insurrection I am still in the MAGA hole. That's bad news for me because I don't think the Trump supporters, (much less the Trump lovers), will let me anywhere near the door.
GASo you admit you thought Trump's actions incited the, let's call them events of January 6, so as not to offend, but deny he deserves accountability for the laws that were broken on that day. That the main instigator was not considered a participant.
That the attack being timed as the peaceful transfer of power was taking place and the calls to find and hang Mike Pence were not an attempt to halt that process do not consist of sedition or insurrection? As Trump informs the crowd after the attack began that Mike Pence was not on board with their coup plan...
I would put you in the Mitch McConnell camp of the GOP. Willing to admit no election fraud and to publicly state Trump bears responsibility for January 6, but too willing to want to remain in the good graces of this current extremist GOP to be willing to act on those beliefs.Yes, I do think he incited the mob to riot, and yes, if there is accountability to be had, he deserves it. I have said this from the day of his rally speech. I have repeated it, when necessary, in the few Jan. 6 discussions I have joined, yet because I am not a Trump-basher, you never caught that and seem excited that I would `admit it' now. Do you see my point?
Put me in any group you want, but remember, when you put me in your last group I did request that the other group members be physically small-statured.
GAThe DOJ seems to agree that when the mob aims to halt the peaceful transfer of power, that escalates it to something more, as noted by charges of seditious conspiracy. Something to consider.
I think you can handle Mitch and Lyndsey. They are in the vocal-but no action crowd.GA, and how many times are you obligated to repeat your opinion on Jan 6th, and if Trump should be held accountable? Perhaps keep a copy of your statement to paste. And, when will it be time to just say - well you know what.
Shar, I disagree with GA, I watched the rally in its entirety and Trump was angry, which he had every right to be {everyone should be, knowing what we now know about what this man was put through} but there was no inciting, not by Trump!
There's still so much video being hidden from the public and questions as to who the agitators, who were among the crowd, were and why the doors to the Capitol Building were opened to the crowd, etc.Hey, I am with you... I was pointing out to GA that no matter how many times he presents a view, some will choose to ignore it.
Energy markets are complex and, in the United States, at least, driven mostly by private-sector decisions rather than government directive. The American president can’t control oil output the way Russian President Vladimir Putin or the Saudi ruling family can. Producers decide how much oil to drill, and whom to sell it to, based on the profit motive. Since 2015, when President Obama changed the rules to allow the export of U.S. crude, American drillers can sell oil wherever in the world they can legally get the best price.
In the real world, energy independence doesn't exist'
It might seem logical to use all the oil produced in the United States to meet domestic needs, and only import what’s necessary after that. But open markets ungoverned by any national energy policy don’t work that way. It’s not as easy to transport oil as it is canned goods or airplane passengers, since there are many limitations on where pipelines and oil-laden railways can run. Most U.S. oil comes from five states, Texas, North Dakota, New Mexico, Oklahoma and Alaska and producers want to sell it where costs are lowest. It can be cheaper to export Texas oil through ports such as Galveston or Corpus Christi, for instance, than to ship it to refiners on the East Coast.
Sometimes it’s a lot cheaper to get cargo from Rotterdam to the East Coast than to push it from Texas, oil analyst Dan Dicker of The Energy Word explained to Yahoo Finance in 2020. “It can be immensely cheaper to take oil from the Middle East than from our wells in West Texas. In the real world, energy independence doesn’t exist.”
Hardly any country can shut itself off from the global oil market and enjoy cheaper prices purely because of bounteous domestic supplies. Saudi Arabia may be one exception, but when a shock threatens supply anywhere it pretty much raises prices everywhere. That’s why the disruption of oil supplies from Russia, the world’s third-largest producer, has sent U.S. oil prices close to $120 per barrel and gas prices above $4 per gallon, even though the United States imports very little Russian oil. Virtually every oil producer is selling into the same market, at whatever price global supply and demand determines.
There have been some calls to prohibit U.S. producers from exporting oil, as was the case before 2015. But that wouldn’t necessarily lower U.S. gasoline prices. The key factor is how much oil U.S. firms produce, which the government doesn’t get to decide. If Washington limited U.S. producers’ ability to sell oil profitably to foreigners, drillers wouldn’t produce the same amount of oil and sell it for less profit, or no profit, to American refiners. If shut off from some profitable markets, they’d probably produce less and make sure they keep profit margins up. Some analysts think a ban on oil exports would be such a disincentive to drill that U.S. pump prices might even go up.
People aren't understanding the oil industry. Media does not explain the oil industry, It is complex And not the stuff that media runs on. The energy independence claims of Mr Trump are just not born out by the facts. Those claims completely ignore how the industry works.
But the funny thing is that the term “energy independence” never actually had a fixed meaning. The way in which it was talked about by politicians, starting with the president, and understood by most listeners was that America could, over time and with the help of the right policies, reach a stage at which we could produce enough energy domestically to meet our needs and foreign nations, principally the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries (OPEC) and its member states, would cease to be in a position to dictate how much energy would be available to Americans and at what price. If OPEC tried to ratchet up the price of oil, we would be in a position to say, “Keep your damn oil, we can produce all we need without you.”
But, if that was the concept politicians were selling and we were buying, it was never the one that American oil companies considered for even a nano-second. Why should they? Every time OPEC slashed production and prices rose on global markets,American producers saw profits skyrocket and, unlike OPEC, they didn’t have to reduce production volume to collect the bonus. The OPEC nations may have profited from restricting supply, but American oil companies profited even more.
The kind of “energy independence” most Americans imagined, which would have insulated us against price shocks inspired by OPEC production cuts, would have required American producers to decouple their prices from the global price of oil and sell at a domestic price based on the cost of production plus some agreed upon mark-up. But, if you were an oil executive or shareholder, where was the fun in that?
So, the American oil and gas industry openly and aggressively led the campaign to achieve one element of energy independence, the capacity to produce more oil and gas domestically than we consume. But it never bought into, nor did the federal government force upon it, the necessary accompanying principle that domestic prices should be decoupled from global prices. The closest we came was when, in the 1980s, Congress made the industry accept a brief, small, and long-since repealed “windfall profits tax” on oil.
There is just so much more to the oil industry than its being presented or understood.
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/the-myth … 17557.html
https://ohiorivervalleyinstitute.org/sl … ependence/Alrighty then...and what does this have to do with price of eggs in China? Lol
I think you are responding to the wrong thread Faye.
BTW, can you tell me a little about the articles you write for HP? I am considering following you.I was responding to the claims of "energy independence" Sharlee mentioned it in the post I thought responded to but apparently responded to the wrong post. So sue me. But my response isn't really so much directly to her because it's been mentioned by several here as well. I'm throwing it out there for all who think that Mr Trump brought this country energy independence.
As far as writing articles I don't really have any motivation or interest.No interest in suing you, just pointing out that you missed your target.
Later.There was no target. I have no interest in targeting anyone or anything. But good Lord thank you for pointing out the faults of others... Standing in judgment of others is always a good Christian value, right? Do you talk to your neighbor over your back fence this way? I'm guessing not. Anonymity on the internet emboldens people to say a lot of righteous nasty things.
Oh good grief. I was letting you know that you had responded to the wrong thread. Thought you might want to put it in the proper context.
I do it all of the time, certainly not passing judgment.
My mistake was assuming that you have a sense of humor.
.... and, what did I say that was "nasty"?
Americans are "extremely worried" about the country in 2022 --- My comment offered several reasons why I feel Americans are worried at this point.
Long reply that is all well and good. However, my comment in regard to Trump making the country energy independent was very much simplistic and to the point. Under Trump, we were pretty much energy independent.
One can argue all the whys of it. Which I have no interest in. My comment was factual. I used this fact in a comment in the context which offered why I appreciated Trump's job performance. Trump's tackling the US energy problems was just one example I offered of why I appreciated Trump's job performance. I feel this was just one of his very positive accomplishments. This is my personal opinion. At this point, I see we are no longer exporting more than importing.
I used the word "pretty much independent to add a clear context to my remark. Your research is appreciated, but I must remind you of the bottom line --- Our energy problems were being solved under Trump, we were exporting, now we are begging to import... This is a shame, and I blame this on the Biden administration. I don't create excuses, I just look at the problem, who was well on the way to solving a big problem, and one that created an unnecessary problem, and can't solve it. Please check the link that my original "energy independent comment was posted. You will be able to see the full context of the conversation and my very precise wording. https://hubpages.com/politics/forum/355 … ost4237792
When I tout the US being energy independent I am referring to the fact that, on the "net" the country began under Trump to produce more energy than it consumed, and exported more energy than it imported, or, more specifically, had a greater number of exports than imports of petroleum,
Which includes crude oil and refined products from crude oil, such as gasoline and various fuels.
The stats are sobering and stand to prove my point.
At this point, the EIA expects that in 2022 this will reverse. We will import more than export. "Following its historic shift to being a net exporter of petroleum in 2020, the United States continued to export more petroleum (which includes crude oil, refined petroleum products, and other liquids) than it imported in 2021. According to our February 2022 Short-Term Energy Outlook (STEO), we expect net crude oil imports to increase, making the United States a net importer of petroleum in 2022."
EIA expects U.S. petroleum trade to shift toward net imports during 2022 Feb 18 2022 --- https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=51338
.We may have gotten to a point where we were energy independent, but after April 2020 when Trump negotiated a deal with Russia, Saudi Arabia, Venezuela, Iran and Libya to reduce global oil production by 20% to combat the drop in demand during the pandemic, that had a major effect on things.
https://fortune.com/2020/04/14/trump-oi … war-ended/
A problem solver that created more problems than he considered. Much like his tariffs that ended up cratering the US agricultural markets and forced annual $25 billion dollar socialist payouts to US farmers.
https://www.yahoo.com/video/trump-farme … istration."we were exporting, now we are begging to import...
U.S. oil imports are not the decisive factor in deciding how much Americans pay for a barrel of crude oil.
"The quantity of oil that the U.S. imports has little to no effect on the price we pay for crude oil," "There is one global market for crude oil. That global price sets the price for all crude oils, plus or minus a couple of dollars depending on transportation costs and the quality of the crude oil."
Even if the U.S. produced all the oil it needed, U.S. consumers would pay the global price.
Suppose the U.S. was self-sufficient in oil and that oil was selling for $70 a barrel, as it was before Russia invaded Ukraine, The invasion raises the price for crude oil on the global market to $110.
Would U.S. producers sell U.S. consumers oil for $70 per barrel when they could sell that same barrel overseas for $110? Of course not!
Oil produced in the United States is sold on the global market. The oil companies export when it's advantageous to their bottom line. Since our oil industry is not nationalized, our government has no control.
If importing crude oil is a more economic option than using domestic crude to produce the refined petroleum product, the market will choose the import option.
The US will probably always rely on imports until we shift from fossil fuels. One key reason is that there is a mismatch between many of the refineries in the US, which were designed to handle heavy crude oil, and the lighter crude that is produced in the US through fracking. Even at moments when the US is a net exporter of oil, "it remains tightly integrated into the world market for oil, constantly exporting some grades of oil to foreign customers while importing other grades of oil into the United States. Different grades for different uses and refining capacity.
I feel the term energy independence is more of a political term. The oil industry does not operate in the manner a lot of Americans feel it does.
The U.S. has been a net petroleum products exporter for more than a decade, but it has always been a net crude oil importer. In 2020, the plunge in global oil demand and the low oil prices that removed incentives for petroleum-exporting countries to raise production allowed the United States to export more petroleum in 2020 than it had in the past, according to the EIA. It's just an example of how oil will always be driven by market forces and politicians will try to cast blame or take credit accordingly.
Maybe this short video does a better job It's summarizing then I have
https://youtu.be/HyorIIPDvSQUnder Trump, we did not accumulate any problems in regards to supplying America with energy, and we for the first time in 75 years were exporting more than importing. This is a fact --- you can look up current info, and apply it to what we are seeing now... My point we did not see the problem under Trump. All the same, variables were there, we did not see what we are seeing now. Trump worked to bring us to a point where we exported more than imported... This is a key fact you are missing.
We do in one short year find the Country in need of importing more than we export. This all happened on the new administration's watch. I truely feel we would not be begging for oil from anyone if Trump won, in fact, I feel we would have been supplying more to Europe as Trump envisioned
I also feel we would not be once again under Democrats watching genocide, due to a weak liberal president. This is how I feel, my view. No need to offer a lengthy reply, I have tried listening to liberal excuses. I am weary of the blindness to what we face as a nation with a weak problematic administration. I am weary of people making excuses for a man that is clearly not all there. I am weary of watching America be ruined due to far-left ideologies. Strong words I know, but they are my words, and how I feel about our current serious problems.
Faye, you give long lengthy comments, but you are dancing around the fact we did not have energy problems under Under Trump, no foreign power walked into a Sovereign nation and waged war. No foreign nation was actually threatening to use nuclear weapons.
I am ashamed of the country at this point. Mortified at any Americans that can support this administration. No excuses or lengthy comments could sway my opinion.
I only need to stand in one place, and look around with open eyes to see the mess America is in. And I truely blame the new administration.
Under Trump, I felt safe, I felt the Country was going forward, and I felt many more Americans were prospering.Genocide has happened under each of the last three presidents. Syria for Obama, our Kurdish allies on the Turkish border under Trump, and now Ukraine with Biden.
Interesting how it's weakness at times and acceptable in others.I apologize for my long-winded responses. In the process I'm trying to educate myself on the way in which the oil industry and America operates. It's something I have never known much about but when I read the claims about energy and dependence and so on being made I wanted to dig deeper.
These claims as well aren't supported by facts. I feel that they are statements made that ignore the underpinnings of the industry.
I've tried over and over again to give my best description of how the oil industry actually works and how most people apparently do not understand it and are led into believing these generalizations that have been made.
For one, I don't think that most people realize that the export of oil was banned in our country from 1975 through 2015. But we were exporting before that.
Also again I'll reiterate that all oil is sold on the global market regardless of who produces it.
If you are advocating for keeping all of our oil at home, The government would have to force the industry/corporations to be nationalized or as maybe someone would call it "socialized". But even then as I had stated the oil that we produce here it doesn't match all of our needs or refining capabilities.
In terms of 2020 and the exports of oil.
IEA's director for energy markets and security, testified during a Senate hearing in 2019, saying "even for net-exporting countries, imports can still play a critical role, helping overcome issues related to crude qualities, differences in refined product demand and domestic refining capacities, or geographical mismatches between production and consumption." The fact is that importing and exporting always has been and always will be in the mix for our country as long as we continue to rely on oil.
In 2020 U.S. oil demand was down about 13% from 2019 due to the coronavirus pandemic. Exports had become critical revenue sources for many oil companies, and the United States had regularly been exporting more. In the end, oil corporations are going to do what's best for their bottom line.
I suppose I'm really trying to understand your position on oil also. Do you have the belief that our nations oil industry should be nationalized and come under government control? And all oil stays within our country even though it may not meet all of our means or be a match for refinery capacities? Do you think we should ban export as we did in the past?No need to apologize, as I stated I appreciate the information you provided, and I don't in any way dispute your information. You may not be understanding what I am saying. It is very simple because you see I am not educated in regard to the oil industry.
"If you are advocating for keeping all of our oil at home, The government would have to force the industry/corporations to be nationalized or as maybe someone would call it "socialized". But even then as I had stated the oil that we produce here it doesn't match all of our needs or refining capabilities."
I did not in any way say I felt America should keep the oil we produce. I am not understanding where you would get that out of my comment. I stated how I gave Trump credit for making America "pretty much energy independent". I touted throughout this conversation how we were exporting oil more than importing oil. I think it wonderful to be able to sell America's oil and buy less. This is a win-win in my book. I was hoping Trump could talk Europe into purchasing our oil. I feel this would make them less dependent on Russia. Again a win-win.
I in no way would support our oil industry being nationalized. I am an advocate of less Government. I am a true capitalist and hope to see America stay very rich. Whether it be selling oil or bringing back manufacturing to our shores. At this point in our history, I feel we need to put America first. I feel we need a strong military and it is casual to be energy independent, and not depend on other countries. Countries that are bad actors. Please note I used the words "At this point in our history".
The world is changing, and it's time to realize dependency on other nations for oil in many cases is funding rogue nations that are supporting wars and pure misery on their own citizens.
Again what I realized under Trump was a country now selling more oil than purchasing. We were supporting less world turmoil.
Again read my comment more carefully, I was so pleased to see America exporting/selling oil and buying less.
Which of my statements would have led you to believe I would support keeping our oil in our country. I would be interested in how the context of my comment could have come across in that way? I would hope in the future we could open the spigots and sell out the oil to the highest bidder. Hopefully, if Republicans win in 2024, I truly think we will be once again returning to being energy-dependent, and selling more oil than we import."I think it wonderful to be able to sell America's oil and buy less. This is a win-win in my book.
This is where we divide because I see it as only a win for the oil company and not really so much for America due to the nature of the oil industry operating on a global market. But I can see your point if you're making it along the lines of jobs in the oil industry in our country.
" I was hoping Trump could talk Europe into purchasing our oil. I feel this would make them less dependent on Russia. Again a win-win.
All oil is sold on the global market. Individual companies in America don't have any influence on that. Yes from what I've seen I think we can make individual deals with other nations but the price will always be determined globally and OPEC+ has the largest influence on that. They regulate the supply of oil in order to set the price on the world market. They can turn the spigot off and on because they control the largest share of oil reserves and therefore they essentially control supply and demand & ultimately the price.
"I would hope in the future we could open the spigots and sell out the oil to the highest bidder.
I wish that it worked this way! Like most commodities, the fundamental driver of oil's price is supply and demand in the market. And again It's only enriching the oil companies and their investors.
I don't think it matters one bit which party is in power in terms of if American oil corporations export more oil or our government imports from the global market. The corporations will continue to turn the spigots off and on based on principles of supply and demand and keeping profits as high as possible.
This argument only benefits the country as a whole if the industry is nationalized otherwise you're just talking about enriching oil corporations.
We are still buying oil on the global market regardless of where it comes from. And the prices are pretty much set by OPEC. By market forces, pure supply and demand. We don't and can't negotiate prices with other nations at all.
Meanwhile US oil corporations are posting record profits while we are all paying more for gas.A win for the oil company, in my view, is a win for America. Please consider the price of gas, and heating one's home under Trump. he being a capitalist pretty much was very much on board with producing our energy onshore. So, yes good jobs, and more money in the pockets of Americans. Keeping our cash here in America by buying less offshore oil, is a win in my book.
I am bot for making other countries rich, and paying more for gas and heating my home. Just makes zero sense to me.
'Meanwhile US oil corporations are posting record profits while we are all paying more for gas."
Yes since Biden walked into the White House we are all paying more for gas, due to the need now to look to other countries for oil.
And yes, oil corporations are and will continue to hold us hostage to offshore oil. Thanks, Biden.
Faye, you can go on and on... Bottom line check stats on what we were paying for gas and heating our homes under Trump. Then check today's stats. Bottom line we pay more.
I find it odd many can continue not to look at the bottom line. This president creates problems. Problems he then ignores.The problem is you're coming to your bottom line and analysis without a full and accurate view of how our global oil industry operates. This is leading you to make the assumption that lower gas prices under one administration can be attributed to that administration and higher costs under another administration are somehow linked also. Again,
Crude oil is traded in a global market. Thus, global supply and demand determines prices for these energy sources, regardless if the oil is American or Saudi. It is all subject to the global market regardless. OPEC by far has the greatest influence on this, including American produced crude. OPEC countries decide to increase or decrease their production to influence the global prices to their benefit.
No US president has control over that.
This is where our oil comes from,
52% of that comes from Canada.
11% comes from Mexico.
11% from OPEC nations.
7% comes from Saudi Arabia.
In turn the privately held oil companies sell oil primarily to Canada, Mexico, Japan, India and China.
Also as I previously said and many experts contend that the U.S. does produce enough oil to meet its own needs, but it is the wrong type of oil.
Even if the U.S. produced all the oil it needed, U.S. consumers would pay the global price.
As you can see because it is a global industry, The world's oil producers are all importers and exporters.
A good example is the fact that we can use the Canadian tar sand oil while they cannot but they import our sweet crude that we use less here.
I know you think I'm being redundant but I'm just trying to point out that there are some missing pieces in the straight line argument of correlation between a president and gas prices equals causation.
Maybe someone here can better explain the workings of the oil industry in terms of pricing And how it operates.
Just a footnote, I know we've gone back and forth on this and I'm not really pushing an agenda here or trying to be argumentative. I think I have more frustration with myself for not being able to accurately get my point across about the nature of the oil industry.My bottom line, I was very satisfied with gas prices and my gas bill under Trump. and as of Jan 2021, I have paid more due to Biden's poor decision-making in regard to new regulations due to his New Greed deal.
Biden Makes Sweeping Changes to Oil and Gas Policy
https://www.csis.org/analysis/biden-mak … gas-policy
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidblack … 2adda72d37
https://www.dlapiper.com/en/mexico/insi … l-and-gas/
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/big-oi … 022-03-10/
https://www.heritage.org/energy-economi … mers-alike
He waged war on oil, and we are the losers.My issue with her is she is also omitting the actions Trump took in April 2020 to help cut global oil production by 20%. Clearly, that kind of cut to supply would have an effect on prices, which she refuses to acknowledge as a factor in our current higher pricing. Instead, just blaming Biden for an action taken by Trump that had an effect on the supply and demand of oil.
Exactly. The oil industry honestly makes my head spin
Sharlee01? Coming from a moderate Independent such as myself, I think that the elephant in the room here is that President Donald J. Trump issued the permits for the construction of the Keystone XL Pipeline during his administration, which created a multitude of good-paying jobs with benefits. Moreover, his decision to do so improved our nation's diplomatic relations with Canada, because there were many Canadian investors who had a financial stake in the success of the Keystone XL Pipeline. Our economy became healthy as a result of it. Unfortunately, Joe Biden destroyed all of that when he took it upon himself to cancel the permits for the construction of the Keystone XL Pipeline, and thanks to him, thousands of jobs have been lost as a result. Now Joe Biden has left us with a disaster. I've heard somewhere that Joe Biden has been messing with one of the pipelines in Michigan in that regard. There are now television commercials airing regularly that explain the harm that these actions of his are doing to our nation. At the end of the day, I don't know how anybody can believe that our economy is so much better off under the Biden administration. Joe Biden even deceived the environmentalists by misleading them to believe that he had their interests at heart, when, in reality, the construction of the Keystone XL Pipeline would ultimately have cut back on the emissions going into our planet's atmosphere inasmuch as there would be fewer trucks transporting the oil.
So keystone XL was expected to transport 830,000 barrels of Alberta tar sands oil per day to refineries on the Gulf Coast of Texas. From the refineries, the oil would be sent chiefly overseas. not to gasoline pumps in the United States. The majority of jobs that were to be created by this project were predominantly on the Canadian side.
Additionally, one study found that between 2007 and 2010, pipelines moving tar sands oil in Midwestern states spilled three times more per mile than the U.S. national average for pipelines carrying conventional crude. Since it first went into operation in 2010, TC Energy’s original Keystone Pipeline System has leaked more than a dozen times.
Complicating matters, leaks can be difficult to detect. And when tar sands oil does spill, it’s more difficult to clean up than conventional crude because it immediately sinks to the bottom of the waterway. People and wildlife coming into contact with tar sands oil are exposed to toxic chemicals, and rivers and wetland environments are at particular risk from a spill. For evidence, note the 2010 tar sands oil spill in Kalamazoo River, Michigan, a disaster that cost Enbridge more than a billion dollars in cleanup fees and took six years to settle in court. Keystone XL would have crossed agriculturally important and environmentally sensitive areas, including hundreds of rivers, streams, aquifers, and water bodies. One was Nebraska’s Ogallala Aquifer, which provides drinking water for millions as well as 30 percent of America’s irrigation water. A spill would have been devastating to the farms, ranches, and communities.
Finally by the time President Biden came into office, a study co-authored by TC Energy’s own scientists, found that the anti-corrosion coating on the project’s pipes was damaged from being stored outside and exposed to the elements for the last decade. It was basically trash.
I'd say it was a no-brainer to pass on keystone XL.If everything you say is so, why is it that there never seemed to have been any news reports of such problems happening with the Keystone XL Pipeline in Canada? Could it have been that they had more technological safeguards in place to prevent such problems than the United States?
I find that different parts of the story (any story/issue) are covered by different media outlets. They select what they focus on. It's always tough to get a comprehensive reporting of an issue. Sometimes I feel you have to dig and piece it all together. The best thing is to really expose yourself to a wide variety of media.
I am not sure if the original keystone has had leaks within Canada but it did have quite a large leak In North Dakota I believe in 2019.
We are in sync. I very much felt very much impressed with Trump's job performance. He had the country on the move, and I was disappointed when he lost the election. I was on board with his America First agenda and appreciated his foreign policies. We had no one dictating or threatening the world with nuclear weapons. I will be counting the days until he leaves the White House. I also have faith that the majority of Americans will be well over the left-liberal ideologies and be more than ready to once again embrace democracy.
And anyone that feels our economy is better under this
administration, in my view, needs to have another look at ur inflation numbers, the price of gas and groceries, not to mention home prices, increasing car process, increasing airfare, and I could go on and on.
He is a real piece of work...
"For one, I don't think that most people realize that the export of oil was banned in our country from 1975 through 2015. But we were exporting before that."
Yeah, I remember reading somewhere that President Gerald Ford was the one who initially imposed that same ban back in 1975. I don't remember what his reason was for doing so. I personally don't think that our nation should be selling American oil and gasoline to any nation that is hostile toward us. But that's just my opinion.The American oil producers are privately owned and run companies. They're selling to whoever wants it.
As far as the export ban, In 1973, OPEC, imposed a ban on petroleum exports to the United States and to other countries that supported Israel during the 1973 Arab-Israeli conflict. OPEC also cut oil production, leading to rising gas prices in the United States. In response to the embargo and higher domestic gas prices, Congress passed the 1975 Energy Policy and Conservation Act, which directed the president to ban crude oil exports ."The American oil producers are privately owned and run companies. They're selling to whoever wants it."
With the exception of Cuba, of course, because of the U.S. embargo against them.
Nah, I change it a bit each time it's appropriate. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.
GAWhat I see is a man that sticks to his principles, keeps his cool, and when appropriate will change his views if need be. Am I even close?
Nah, that's just the anonymous internet pretend me. Just ask my wife. ;-)
GA
GA, how can educated, reasonable people just love a man independent of how he performs on the job?
What idea that Trump represents? Unlike more doctrinaire conservatives and Republicans, he believed and only advocated what was to his political and personal benefit.
Conservatives don't like the direction the country is going in? Nominate a responsible and reasonable conservative type, although I won't vote for he or she.
Liberals bad mouth "deplorables"? Trump said that he love the uneducated. Why would he say that? Is it a compliment or did he say it because the unschooled are just that more susceptible thus more receptive to Trumps BS and cons. I would call that a back hand insult.
Me and my half don't trust Republicans and see their version of "truth" as madness, so how do we advance the conversation? It has become apparent within the last 4 years that the extreme from the Right is being let into the mainstream Republican politics and not the exceptions that we are told to believe. Abortion rights, storming of the Capital. Our extremes have never reach the levels of the Right.
This Obama cash and phone stuff is just racist bigotry and is another unfortunate characteristic, regardless of what conservative may say, of so much of Trumps support. If you can't rise above that, then you (they) are deplorable.
Right, Maher's message does say different things for different folks.You open with a version of Valeant's "Why still?" question. And it beat's the hell out of me. I am encouraged by the stats that show the devoted Trump-lover base is in sharp decline. I am somewhat resigned to the answer for many remaining Trump supporters is one of zeal for partisan power. Beyond that, I dunno.
Racist bigotry? I didn't mention race or phones. Were there no white folks in the crowds in the ads that showed clips of the Democrat "Obama cash" folks?
Once more, your response is to inject race and racism first. But since you did, how would you describe those black "Obama cash" devotees, are they disgusting uneducated deplorables too?
GA
Oh my, gets better as the conversation progresses. The air must be getting thin up in here...
"But we're still waiting for many who went down the MAGA rabbit hole to poke their head out, as Maher says; and come back to reality. So far, there's no sign that they want to stop dating the psycho. No sign that they care to live in reality. "'
Did it ever hit you that a good number of Americans are were and still are on board with making America great again, and now once again? There are many in this country that are done with the fluff and puff BS of Government, and will no longer settle for the status quo. We are very much not interested in going backward, with sheep-like citizens.
You don't get it, and you never will, we have moved away from the status quo, and have no intention of letting it take hold again. That's something you and your's will just need to deal with...
No nightmare, a dream. A dream of a better America.
"Perhaps if any can accept that their reality is false, there will be some olive branches extended. For now, many reasonable people that we used to converse with here have just drifting further down the MAGA rabbit hole instead of seeing that they should exit that nightmare."
This is a ridiculous statement -- Not sure if you noted, that not many are actually responding to some of the liberal users here. So, guess no need to stand there with your "olive branch". OMG, this is so laughable.The air must be non-existent causing brain damage in here also. Posting petty insults will reap what they sow.
How does attacking your own Capitol make American great exactly? How does ignoring the reports on the dangers in Wuhan and allowing a dangerous virus to develop make it great? How does openly violating laws like the Hatch Act make it great? How does making death threats to elections workers and teachers make America great? How does coddling white supremacists make America great?
Yes, many MAGA followers have shown they are standing behind those actions that did not make American great, but showed that they do not believe the laws of their government apply to them. Breaking laws and being generally uncivil does not make American great, it makes it toxic.
I get it that many MAGA cultists do not believe in their government. It's why so many see them as the greatest danger that currently exists in the country, which they are in complete denial of. Their dream of authoritarianism is their dream alone while the rest of us stand by democracy.I in no respect insulted you personally.
"How does attacking your own Capitol make American great exactly? How does ignoring the reports on the dangers in Wuhan and allowing a dangerous virus to develop make it great? How does openly violating laws like the Hatch Act make it great?"
BOY did I hit a nerve... The problem is Trump is not guilty of any of the above.
And talk about toxic --- accusing mere strangers of being "cultists" lawbreakers, and authoritarians.
Trump's administration in no respect showed any form of
authoritarianism. That would be the new Biden administration, the Government overreach from this administration is very much obvious.And neither did I. Mine was also a general statement that expanded on your own thought.
Actually, Congress did publish a finding that Trump violated the Hatch Act. Dig deeper. There is credible reporting that Trump's State Department was briefed on the dangers of Wuhan. And it was Trump that sent his crowd to the Capitol despite the plan being to remain at the ellipse. The Capitol security was not prepared since the rally supporters did not get a permit to protest there. That is clear culpability on Trump's part.
When those strangers make death threats (which violates the law) and deny the reality that there was no significant fraud in 2020, believing only what the leader says, the word cultists definitely applied.
And your denial of Trump's authoritarian tendencies is not surprising in the least as you're the biggest Trump apologist on this site, by far. As I've shown you, Eastman knew that he was asking Pence to violate the Electoral Count Act and Trump was pushing that illegal theory that morning.
What is someone that is willing to violate the Constitution to remain in power? What is someone who does not accept valid election results and the will of the people? What is someone that does not acknowledge a free and fair election? That'd be an authoritarian.Perhaps you need to back up your accusations that Trump violated the Harch Act and any other of your accusations. As I do.
"And your denial of Trump's authoritarian tendencies is not surprising in the least as you're the biggest Trump apologist on this site, by far."
I find it so odd how you frequently request others here to confirm their views in regards to anything Trump. And if a user defends Trump in any incident you label that person frequently with a derogatory label.
You certainly should realize others here on this forum have the right to their individual views. Not all agree with your views, and perhaps you should respect others' rights to freedom of speech.
I don't appreciate unproven assumptions, be it about Trump or anyone else.The more accurate statement about the Hatch Act is that 13 members of his senior administration violated the Hatch Act during the 2020 campaign and he did nothing about their violations because they were to help his re-election. So technically, it was more a violation of his oath to see that the laws are faithfully executed.
https://osc.gov/Documents/Hatch%20Act/R … ection.pdf
Is it a label to note that you see very little wrong with Trump's presidency where 66% of the country disapproved of the job he did by the time he left office. You are certainly in the vast minority of thinking that the job Trump did was good.
Sure you can have an opinion, but pointing out that it's a minority opinion and that you always try and excuse Trump's worst acts is reality. If you find being an apologist is derogatory, so be it.I do not believe that 66% of voters who actually pay attention, disapprove of Trump. I do believe that the D.C. establishment and MSM need us to believe it.
Trump approval when he left office...
https://news.gallup.com/poll/328637/las … d-low.aspx
"The more accurate statement about the Hatch Act is that 13 members of his senior administration violated the Hatch Act during the 2020 campaign and he did nothing about their violations because they were to help his re-election."
It was widely reported that 13 members of Trump's senior administration were alleged of violated the Hatch act. One was charged, and Under the settlement, Lynn Patton was barred from federal employment for two years and paid a $1,000 fine. The other 12 were widely smeared in the media, and the OSC did not prosecute the remainder of those that were accused of violating the Hatch Act violations.
In regards to polls on job approval, I suggest you concentrate on the guy you voted for. Trump is not the president. Biden's polls -- " An NBC News poll released on Sunday registered Biden’s approval rating at 40 percent, the lowest of his presidency in that poll. A Marist College poll released Thursday found 39 percent of Americans approve of the job Biden is doing as president, down from 47 percent immediately after the State of the Union address at the beginning of the month. "
Source --- https://thehill.com/news/administration … mal-polls/
Yes, I would worry about the current president's poll numbers, because it is clear you are in the minority at this point. And in my opinion, he will break an all-time disapproval rating.
I guess once again (as GA had to repeat his views on the Jan 6th riot) I will repeat I feel Trump was a great problem solver, felt very safe under his watch, was pleased with the economy, pleased that I was quickly able to be vaccinated for COVID, and very pleased America was pretty much energy independent and exporting - US Is Net Oil Exporter For First Time in 75 Years - Bloomberg https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles … n-75-years
I could not have been more pleased with the job Trump did. I think he was a good president, that was for the people. Hopefully, this should set you straight about my opinion on Trump's job performance.Oh, you suggest I focus only on what you want me to focus on? Sorry, but I'll give you my opinion as freely as you think we should all listen to yours. And Biden's 39% is still an upgrade from 34%. Trump's paltry 41% approval over his term is the record. He never had more than 49%, so never did half the country approve of the job he did. The first time that has ever happened.
And it's funny that you feel America was energy independent as Biden's America in his first year produced 2 million more barrels of oil per day than Trump did in his first year. And Trump helped cut global oil production by 10% in April of 2020 and that can easily be a cause for the high prices we are seeing today.
You felt safe with Trump lying about the dangers of the pandemic? Bowing down to Putin in Helsinki? Having a functional illiterate with the nuclear codes? Agree to disagree with your opinion. Trump was a President for his base and his approval ratings reflect that.
"done with the fluff and puff BS of Government"
Hot damn, I wish I had thought of that description.
GAYou might be shocked, but many a liberal also believes that government is bloated and could use some paring down. A fiscally responsible democrat is very appealing and the fact that Biden is currently running a surplus, which of course no one on the right will dare acknowledge, is an accomplishment to be proud of.
On top of that, a balance budget law would be one that should get bipartisan support. Kathryn's going to get triggered that I used the word should again.I wouldn't be shocked. I believe most citizens, (not politicians, for them, I would say rarely, not mostly), are within the guard rails of political beliefs and policies support. It is the fringes and over-zealous of both sides that jump the rails and do idiot stuff.
GA
One can tell I am pissed off when I use fluff and puff. followed by BS. I could have used the old worn-out - smoke and mirrors. I will save that description for when I have a cooler head.
I have been following your conversation with GA which seems to start with this post. First, why in the world would you presume that some here would respect what nighttime comedian/ nightly news jock opinion? His educational background would seem to be lacking in true politics. In my view -- He is a snarky narcissistic tool. I won't go further with insulting Bill Maher but be assured I could. But, I could certainly write a book on the subject --- "Why Would Anyone Respect Bill Maher's Opinions But A Liberal".
Why Would Anyone Respect Bill Maher's Opinions But A Liberal".
Perhaps, I say the same thing about Tucker Carlson and Hannity."Perhaps, I say the same thing about Tucker Carlson and Hannity."
And you would be correct... It would seem many do need these talk jocks, and do hang on their every word, and come to spread the ideologies of these paid talk jocks.
Me, I like to pride myself on being a free-thinking individual, that comes to my own conclusions without input from celebrities. I have little respect for people that parrot celebs.
Hey, hopefully, you could see I was venting --- Just really disgusts me when anyone posts words of wisdom from talk jocks.And you would be right. relative to the messenger, of course.
GA
Of course you don't address the details of the candidates, but only resort to attacking the source. It's your typical deflection away from the main point, that the clown show of candidates the GOP is putting forth would be comical if the party had not devolved so far.
When you are willing to discuss the actual point of posts, feel free to stop back in.Yes, I attacked the source, Bill Maher. Why in the world should I address his opinion about candidates? I have no respect for him or his opinion. He is a talk jock.
That's about it, I have no intention of discussing anything with you. To be honest, I have no interest in your opinion, too liberal for me, and I don't respect your ideologies. I will leave it at that.
Why? How about because his comedic observations reflect your own perception? As for his credentials, who cares, you either agree with what is said or you don't.
In this case, where the discussion is about the message, not the messenger, then the messenger's credentials don't matter. You either agree or disagree with the message. I agree with many of his "opinions."
GA
Thank you for proving my point. All you took from my post was verbiage and no acknowledgement that those in the MAGA movement attempted a violent coup to undermine democracy. You didn't even blink when it was mentioned. That's a great example of being satisfied with how far down the MAGA rabbit hole some have climbed.
My mode now is to not rock the boat - just keeping low key in order to let the boat stay steady.
- don't want any one falling off without a life jacket.Hopefully, you will see this comment after you see my previous reply to you, (re: the Maher link), because, to me, it illustrates, almost exactly, the point I made in that previous reply.
". . . no acknowledgement that those in the MAGA movement attempted a violent coup to undermine democracy. '
I am one of those that don't think that is an accurate description of what happened. (wait, that argument has already been had, no need to start it again, we just disagree), I don't think I am part of the MAGA movement, so if I don't agree with your reality of that event, then just imagine how a Trump supporter would feel about the "truth" of your statement.
So, to borrow your words, thanks for proving my point.
GA
should
/SHo͝od,SHəd/
verb
modal verb: should
1.
used to indicate obligation, duty, or correctness, typically when criticizing someone's actions.
"he should have been careful"1. used to indicate obligation, duty, or correctness, typically when criticizing someone's actions.
'he should have followed the Constitution since he took an oath to do so.'
Pretty sure swearing an obligation and duty makes should something he and his followers ought to have done on January 6.
One should not rock the boat or everyone will get seasick.
We should all be on board with progressive ideologies.
We should change the world for the better.
We should prevent climate change.
We should all drive electric cars.
We should allow abortions.
We should allow sex change operations for children.
We should allow transgender people the right to their preferences.
We should make sure all people can vote.
We should let all people cross the border
Any other "shoulds" you would like to throw in, that we need to know about?Ah, yes. Another far-right person who incorrectly thinks they know what the liberal left believes.
My only should I am talking about here is people should leave a movement that ignores the laws and Constitution and uses domestic terror as a political tool to keep the leader of that movement in power.
Like I said, you won't even talk about the attempted coup and instead try to deflect away from it. That you a.) won't even talk about it and b.) don't even consider that you should leave that kind of movement, says so much.What's to discuss?
No one should follow Trump's movement because:
1. It ignores The Constitution / laws.
2. It uses domestic terror to keep Trump in power.
Yes, Bill Maher is correct regarding Democrats and liberals allowing moderate conservatives and Republicans back into the folds of being reasonable people. But the fact that they could fall under the spell and allure of one demented man, means that from my standpoint, they are on probation.
This "election was stolen" refrain has to be getting kind of old among the Trumper crowd. The fact that he (Trump) continues with it means that his "confidence man" routine still works for far too many. So, if you are running for office as a Republican, unless you support the lie or pretend to in public, he will recommend that you be primaried. What sort of political party and its adherents would allow one man to have that sort of power, not over ideas and policy but just plain caprice and jealousy?
All you are really that far gone?Interesting. I see that Gallup currently has Biden's approval at 33%, which seems very high.
Really, because I see it as 42%, with an average term of 48% so far.
https://news.gallup.com/poll/329384/pre … biden.aspx
Cred:
Some serious delusional projection recently to deny the attempted attack on democracy going on from Trump and his allies. If that's really the perception, it's hard to take much else seriously since that worldview is so outside actual reality, don't you think?It is Valeant, the Right has been downplaying the seriousness of this insurrection, making it all sound like a junior high excursion trip.
This sucks and we are in great danger as what once went for restraint in the past have now been broken. They will "dare" now because our side has been weak and not appreciating the danger for what it is.
I think that the Rightwinger knows better, but are pleading the 5th. Who wants to admit that they are simple enough to be carried away by the muttering of a single tyrant?
Not many Democrats felt safe with Trump in the Oval Office. Realizing from Day 1 that the leader of the country was going to lie, even about the most easily provable things like crowd sizes, meant there was zero trust in what he was going to do going forward.
If you're going to judge Biden based on the effects of Covid on the economy, you need to judge Trump on those same effects and factor in his 2020 economy. That would be the fair way to do it.
Trump policies largely benefitted himself and the rich.
Unique encounters in 2019 and 2021 were largely comparable, meaning that nearly the same amount of people were coming. The difference being that now we try and look after children coming and not allow a dozen or so to die in our care, nor do we violate human rights and separate families and get sued because of the damage it caused.
It's hard for a country to heal when the outgoing administration does not support the new one and makes up falsehoods undermining them.
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