All Things Israel and Palestine
VIDEO
A great discussion segment between Jon Stewart and Peter Beinart, editor-at-large of Jewish Currents."Pro-Israel Democrats try breaking with Netanyahu to stop party’s shift amid Gaza crisis"
Netanyahu keeps shedding support has he commits his genocide (according to two different Israeli aid groups) against the Palestinian people.
https://www.cnn.com/2025/08/03/politics … srael-gazaNetanyahu to go after the rest of Gaza. The only parts left unoccupied is where they think the remaining hostages are. Does this move sign their death warrant?
https://www.cnn.com/world/live-news/isr … u-08-07-25"Hostage families call for nationwide strike as Israel prepares to escalate war"
They know Netanyahu doesn't give a shit about their families anymore. This tough stance (similar to Trump's) is to keep him out of jail.
More power to the Israelis who are doing the right thing.
https://www.cnn.com/2025/08/10/middleea … srael-intl
After the apparent failed Doha strike by Israel, I suspect whatever sympathy for what happened to Israel on Oct 7 is about gone. For my part, I can separate what I think about the Israeli people, for whom I have undiminished sympathy and support, and the war criminal Netanyahu.
The fact that the people can't get rid of the man who wants perpetual war in order to stay in power is not their fault, they will just have to wait for the upcoming election, (unless he pulls a Trump and tries to cancel it).
But, I can condemn, along with the rest of the world, Netanyahu who, as far as I am concerned, is no better than the terrorists he is trying kill.
https://www.cnn.com/world/live-news/isr … a-09-10-25Biden handed Trump a working ceasefire in Gaza the day Trump took over and started the process of bringing America down. He couldn't sustain it and has failed in every attempt to restart it (sometimes because Netanyahu poked him in the eye), He has lied to the American people at every opportunity and about almost everything.
But, on this one, I actually believe Trump. I don't think he knew Netanyahu (who might have taken the lead from Trump's probable illegal attack on a boat in international waters) was about to break the law again by attacking terrorists in Doha, Qatar - and worse, failing their objecting of taking out the negotiating team.
https://www.cnn.com/2025/09/10/politics … s-analysisStating the Obvious -
"UN commission says Israel is committing genocide in Gaza"
Personally, I would edit the headline to read:
"UN commission says Netanyahu is committing genocide in Gaza" and not blame all of Israel for his genocide.
https://www.cnn.com/2025/09/16/middleea … eport-intlMany states, such as France now, are recognizing Palestine as a separate state. Netanyahu wants to wipe the Palestinians of the face of the Earth - I believe the term is called ethnic cleansing or genocide; you know, that thing Hitler tried to do to the Jews in the 1940s?.
Isn't it ironic that Netanyahu is choosing the same path only with bombs and starvation substituting for gas chambers and concentration camps.
The leaders of Palestine bear a lot of responsibility for shutting down efforts for a two-state solution years ago.
https://www.cnn.com/world/live-news/isr … n-09-22-25In stating their support for a two state solution, what do other responsible western democracies, such as UK, Canada and Australia know that America does not?
Cred, maybe we look to factual history to answer that question. Nothing like history to really shed a bright light on the question you have asked.
Honestly, the idea of a “two-state solution” being offered again today just feels like déjà vu — a gesture that history has already shown is doomed to fail. The Palestinians and Israel have been presented with similar proposals many times before, yet none have succeeded.
The UN Partition Plan in 1947 offered separate Jewish and Arab states, but it was rejected by the Arab leadership, sparking war.
The Oslo Accords (1993) laid the groundwork for a Palestinian Authority and negotiations, yet they didn’t lead to a lasting solution.
The Camp David Summit (2000) tried to resolve core issues like Jerusalem and refugees — and failed.
The Arab Peace Initiative (2002) offered normalization in exchange for full Israeli withdrawal — Israel didn’t accept it.
The Geneva Initiative (2003) was a detailed civil-society plan, ignored by official governments.
The Annapolis Conference (2007) again sought negotiations but produced nothing.
And even John Kerry’s talks (2013–2014) couldn’t overcome disagreements over settlements and security.
So, you asked: “In stating their support for a two-state solution, what do other responsible Western democracies, such as the UK, Canada, and Australia, know that America does not?”
Oh, I don’t know — maybe they’ve read the history books, realized that offering another symbolic plan without real enforcement or mutual agreement is basically just throwing paper airplanes at a wall and hoping something sticks. But hey, maybe this time it’ll magically work!
Time and again, these gestures have been made, and time and again, they’ve fallen apart. The latest proposal looks like yet another symbolic attempt, rather than a real path to peace. History makes it clear: without mutual agreement on core issues, these plans are just words on paper.
So, this is what looks once again like nothing but a repetitive gesture.
I ask, do you think it will work this time around?In my view, when something fails because idiots don't know what is good for them, you keep trying until logic wins out. That is what western democracies know that Trump doesn't.
You don't quit, ever, when people's lives are at state as they are here.I appreciate your documenting the points, but what makes “America” view so sacrosanct? The other Western democracies are just as aware of the initiatives that you have listed here. They have to believe that there has to be middle ground between subduing Hamas and the current scorched earth policy adopted by Netanyahu leading to astronomical loss of life by Palestinians in Gaza. America has always been partial toward Israel when its behavior is condemned by the rest of the world. I dont share that partiality and expect all nations to step up to same international standards of decency and fair play.
Israel in its settlement policies and such can hardly say that it is without blame for so many of the failed diplomatic efforts to a solution.
As for whether it works or not, other responsible Western nations are committed to try each and everything to get the blood letting to stop. I have heard that much of the world condemns Israel for its actions and it is not just limited to the West.Cred, it doesn’t look like the new administration has taken a clear public stand on the two-state solution. That said, today, White House Press Secretary K. Leavitt shared Trump's view that recognition by several Western countries “does nothing to release the hostages … does nothing to end this conflict and bring this war to a close. The White House's focus so far seems to be more on trying to end the war and manage immediate security concerns rather than laying out a long-term framework like two states. The administration does currently have people negotiating. Whether those negotiations will succeed or produce a stable deal is still uncertain.
As of September 22, 2025, the Trump administration continues to engage in negotiations related to the Israel-Hamas conflict. Steve Witkoff, the U.S. Special Envoy to the Middle East, remains actively involved in these efforts. On September 17, 2025, he met with Israeli Minister of Strategic Affairs Ron Dermer in London to discuss the possibility of resuming negotiations for a comprehensive deal to secure the release of all hostages and end the war
Israel National News
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My research offers this ---Additionally, Hamas has reportedly drafted a letter to President Trump, proposing a 60-day ceasefire in exchange for the immediate release of half of the 48 hostages currently held in Gaza. This letter is expected to be delivered to the White House this week through Qatari intermediaries. So, it appears this administration is still trying through negotiations to end this war. So we may want to consider offering credit where it is due.
I understand your thoughts, but I think it’s important to keep the facts clear. My point is not that America’s view is “sacrosanct” or the only one that matters; it’s that, historically, the Palestinians have been offered a two-state solution multiple times, at least seven that I can document, and it was their refusal that kept a lasting resolution from being reached. Other Western democracies are certainly aware of these offers too.
Yes, Israel’s policies, including settlements, have complicated peace efforts, and no nation is blameless in this conflict. But the recurring offers of a two-state solution show that there has been a genuine opportunity for a negotiated settlement. America’s position in support of that solution is consistent with international law and the principle of negotiated compromise, not simply favoritism toward Israel.
I think it’s fair to expect all nations to uphold decency and fair play, but it’s also important to recognize where repeated diplomatic efforts have been made and rejected. That context matters when discussing who is responsible for the failure to achieve peace.
I don’t want you to misunderstand where I stand. I don’t dismiss the terrible suffering of civilians in Gaza, and I agree that Israel has made mistakes in its policies. But I don’t see America’s position as blind partiality, grounded in the fact that Israel has come to the table with proposals multiple times, while Hamas and other factions have chosen violence over negotiation. That, to me, is the real barrier to finding any middle ground. We’re watching horrors unfold that should never be happening. It seems Hamas refuses to surrender, and Netanyahu won’t stop until they do. I honestly don’t know what the solution is, but Israel is a sovereign nation and will act as such.
In principle, no one can truly dictate to a sovereign nation; that’s what sovereignty means. A country has the right to make its own decisions within its borders and in matters of defense.
That said, in practice, powerful nations and international bodies often try to influence or pressure sovereign nations through diplomacy, sanctions, aid, or alliances. But at the end of the day, unless a nation is occupied or overthrown, its leadership still makes the final call.
So, in Israel’s case, outside countries can criticize, pressure, or even try to mediate, but they can’t directly dictate what Israel does as a sovereign state.What do these statements imply to you?
Senior White House official to Reuters, July 30, 2025:
“As the president stated, he would be rewarding Hamas if he recognizes a Palestinian state… So he is not going to do that.” Trump never walked that back
White House (Press Sec. Karoline Leavitt), Sept. 22, 2025:
“The President has been very clear he disagrees with this decision… And frankly, he believes it’s a reward to Hamas.” (on U.K./Canada/Australia/Portugal recognizing Palestine). So, what is that decision Trump disagrees with? Recognizing a Palestinian state.
Times of Israel
+1
It seems to me that Trump is clearly rejecting a two-state solution, contrary to your claim.
Shar,
I think the only thing that matters is that Israel has safe borders.
Palestinians have proven they are incapable of self-rule.
After all the celebrations that took place after Oct 7 in Gaza...I question their humanity. The story about having an Israeli woman in the back of a pick up truck and parading her around as the people in Gaza cheered.
We have to realize the type of people we are dealing with here. Do they have the ability to act as if they're human?
"Hours later that day, a video emerged showing Louk's body, partially clothed, with a significant head injury and blood-matted hair, being paraded in the streets of Gaza City by Hamas militants in the back of a pickup truck; they were exclaiming "Allahu Akbar" and were joined in the cheers by the people in the crowd surrounding the vehicle, some of whom spat on the body. The video went viral"
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/ … -hospital/Mike, I agree, it’s all common sense, and history shows that the Palestinians have repeatedly chosen war against Israel. So yes, Israel needs secure borders. October 7th really made me question humanity; Hamas committed true genocide in the most barbaric way possible. This was the real definition of genocide. What’s happening in Gaza now is war.
I saw the videos, the images, the blood at the back of her pants, the suffering on her face, and I could only imagine what they had done to her. I think many people today have lost sight of who started this war and many of the other wars with Israel. They seem unwilling to acknowledge the reality that Hamas was democratically elected to lead a government that is a known terrorist organization.
I think those who so easily condemn Netanyahu would feel differently if Hamas had entered the U.S. and done to the American people what they did to Israel. Some might even remember how we felt on 9/11, and that was nothing compared to the door-to-door genocide, rape, and hostage-taking carried out by Hamas. It’s always easy to stand on a pedestal and dish out words, but it’s much harder to face what actually happened that day to over 1,000 human beings.
For me, I look at it straight up, no nonsensical reasoning or excuses for what occurred. I see a nation that is no longer willing to be persecuted just for trying to live their lives and build a wonderful country, as Israel has.Shar,
I agree.
If you had to fight an enemy that had their fighters, arms, rockets, etc. in hospitals, schools, and homes...how can you fight such an enemy?
The deaths of the Palestinians is the fault of hamas. The deaths of the children, the hungry children, is the responsibility of hamas. An enemy who hides behind civilians is beneath despicable.
We have to realize the Palestinian people supported hamas and continue to support hamas.
This is why Palestinians can never have their own homeland.
"According to the poll, only seven percent of Gazans blamed Hamas for their suffering. Seventy-one percent of all Palestinians supported Hamas’s decision to attack Israel on October 7 — up 14 points among Gazans and down 11 points among West Bank Palestinians compared to three months ago. Fifty-nine percent of all Palestinians thought Hamas should rule Gaza, and 70 percent were satisfied with the role Hamas has played during the war."
https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2024/03/22 … estinians/I completely agree with your assessment. The reasoning you outlined, that Hamas deliberately embeds its fighters, weapons, and operations within civilian areas, is exactly why no nation in the world would ever consider permanently integrating Palestinians as a people. When the leadership of a population openly supports terrorism, uses its own citizens as shields, and fosters a culture of hostility, it makes both safety and trust impossible. Your point about the polls only underscores this: when the majority of Palestinians support Hamas and its attacks, it’s clear that the responsibility for their suffering lies squarely with Hamas. That’s the harsh reality any nation faces when considering long-term solutions.
I have shared, and I know it is an unpopular view--- This war must be the last, and finish the conflict once and for all. Peace, unfortunately, will come at a great cost.
“I agree it’s common sense to condemn violence—Hamas has repeatedly chosen war. But it’s not accurate or fair to say Palestinians as a people have. Many have backed negotiations and simply want safety and a normal life—just as it would be wrong to say ‘Americans’ supported the 2018 Trump inhumane family-separation policy. Some did, but national polling showed most Americans opposed it.”
Whose "humanity" are you referring to? Is it the 5-year old Palestinian child who was killed by an Israeli bomb? Is that who you are saying is inhumane?
Should hamas have not attacked Israel and slaughtered over 1,000 people and had taken over 200 hostages, that 5-year old Palestinian child would be alive today.
The fact is that civilians get killed in war.
Trust me, anyone who knows anything about the war in Ukraine, knows this for a fact. The Palestinians have had it easy compared to what the russians are doing in Ukraine.
I'm not moved by such stories.Should Israel leadership have not attacked Palestinians and stolen THEIR land, and killed as many people and displaced tens of thousands more, then Oct 7 may not have happened. We can keep the blame game going a long time.
Your response illustrates your inability to comprehend the reality of the situation.
There is NO such thing as Palestinian land.
With the rest of your accusations you did what you usually do in these situations....you made it up.
Why are Palestinians denied safe, recognized borders? In areas designated for Palestinian self-rule by the Oslo accords and broadly recognized as occupied Palestinian territory, Netanyahu’s government has advanced settlements and demolitions. Strip people of security and dignity long enough, and groups like Hamas find listeners.
Palestinians are incapable of self rule.
They had an opportunity and turned the Gaza strip into a terrorist haven.
All they have shown to be able to do is cause death and destruction.
Well, they don't know there has never been a country called Palestine.
There still isn't a country called Palestine.
I wonder if they realize the two state solution has been attempted five times previously.
There was no such thing as a Palestinian until the 1960s.
I think that UK, Canada, and Australia need to spend a little time studying history.So what? There was never a country called Israel either - until there was.
I am not sure where you get your truths from but here is the real truth and where it comes from - which you never provide.
Short answer: no—that claim is false.
“Palestinian” as a demonym and its identity long predates the 1960s. A few anchors:
British Mandate citizenship: In 1925, the Palestine Citizenship Order created “Palestinian citizens” in law for residents of Mandatory Palestine.
National Library of Israel
Press and public life: The Arabic newspaper Falastin began publishing in 1911 in Jaffa and regularly addressed its readers as Palestinians.
National Library of Israel
Politics & mass mobilization: A distinct Palestinian Arab politics is visible by the 1920s and in the 1936–39 Arab Revolt, decades before the 1960s.
Encyclopedia Britannica
Reference works: Britannica notes Palestinians had been developing a distinct identity for about two centuries, even though the word’s scope narrowed after 1948 to refer mainly to Arab Palestinians.
Encyclopedia Britannica
Everyday usage in the Mandate: Jewish institutions also used “Palestine/Palestinian” as a geographic demonym (e.g., the Palestine Post, founded 1932, later the Jerusalem Post), underscoring that “Palestinian” was a common label for inhabitants well before 1948.
Encyclopedia Britannica
What did change in the 1960s is organizational consolidation (e.g., the PLO) and wider international recognition of a specifically Palestinian Arab national movement—but the people and the term “Palestinian” were not new.
AND, if you prefer to go back further in history -
Great question! In the Bible, the region we now call “Palestine” is referred to by several different names—“Palestine” itself is basically not used as a geographic label for the whole country in the biblical text.
Canaan – the most common early name (e.g., Gen 12:5; Num 34).
The Land of Israel / Israel – especially after the Israelite settlement; later paired with Judah when the kingdom splits (e.g., 1–2 Kings).
Judah, Israel, Samaria – sub-regions or political entities in various periods.
Philistia (Hebrew: Peleshet) – the coastal strip of the Philistines. Older English Bibles (like the KJV) sometimes render this as “Palestina” (Exod 15:14; Isa 14:29, 31), but it refers only to Philistia, not the whole land.
New Testament terms: Judea, Galilee, Samaria, and “the land of Israel” (Matt 2:20–21). The NT never calls the whole area “Palestine.”
Historical footnote: The broader imperial name “Syria Palaestina” [was imposed by Rome after the Bar Kokhba revolt (2nd century CE), i.e., after the biblical period.Again,
Try to understand a simple fact of life.
Nothing you provided has proven there has ever been a country known as Palestine.
There has NEVER been a Palestinian nation/state. This is an undisputable fact. To doubt it is to display a lack of comprehension of what makes a nation/state.
Israel has existed as a country since the Bronze Age.
Until the Oslo Accords, when Israel gave the Palestinians an opportunity at self government, there had never been a country called Palestine. They were given land Israel had obtained from the six day war. It was a very nice piece of land.
Every Jewish person was removed from the Gaza strip in 2006. Jews were not even permitted to travel there. In a stark contrast, many Palestinians held jobs in Israel.
The Palestinians did not want to live in peace. They used their resources to conduct terrorism against Israel and create one of the largest terrorist strongholds in the world. They elected hamas to rule them. They turned the Gaza Strip into a terrorist training camp.
On October 7, they then committed the largest slaughter of Jewish people since the Holocaust. They were so sick and demented they filmed their evil deeds and shared them online.
I don't think Palestinians should ever have a piece of land that is theirs. They are a sick people who have embraced terrorism and terrorist activities. The majority of them still want hamas to control them.
This should never happen.And nothing YOU have provided that PROVES there was a country named Israel before 1947. What is your point?
As to saying Palestinians, writ large, embrace terrorism, I suspect there are many people who say that about you (although I am not one of them)."there was a country named Israel before 1947"
I would rate this among some of the most ridiculous things I've read in a long time.
Might want to read the Bible.
"Jerusalem began to fulfil the function of a spiritual and national capital for the Jews in the 10th century BCE when King David conquered it. He made Jerusalem his seat of judgment and took the Ark of the Covenant to rest there. It was David who conceived the idea of building a Temple there as a permanent house of God, a plan eventually fulfilled by his son Solomon.
The Temple in Jerusalem was the centre of Jewish religion and life from the time of Solomon to its eventual destruction by the Romans in 70 C.E. It was the one and only place where sacrifices and certain other religious rituals were performed. When the Babylonians destroyed the city in 586 BCE, they also partially destroyed the Temple. The Jews, sent into exile by this event, pledged that they would never forget their beloved Jerusalem or its Temple"
https://bje.org.au/knowledge-centre/isr … -presence/
History has proven your point in my view. These people are not people who have ever thrived, and other nations have been made responsible for their very livelihood.
One only needs to look to the West Bank--- The stark differences between the West Bank and Gaza can largely be explained by governance, access, and economic conditions. In the West Bank, the Palestinian Authority provides relatively stable administration, allows for more movement of people and goods, and has some access to international investment and trade. As a result, Palestinians there are able to run businesses, work in professional sectors, and generally achieve economic stability.
In Gaza, decades of rule by Hamas have brought turmoil, which has led to blockades imposed by Israel and Egypt, severely restricting movement, trade, and access to resources. The political leadership has for decades prioritized military and militant activities over civilian infrastructure and economic development. This has created chronic poverty, extremely high unemployment, and a reliance on humanitarian aid. The combination of authoritarian governance, ongoing conflict, and isolation has also fostered an environment in which militant action is promoted as a means of resistance, rather than focusing on civilian prosperity.
In short, the success in the West Bank versus the failure in Gaza is not about the people themselves, but about decades of governance, policy choices, and external constraints that have systematically limited Gaza’s ability to thrive and pushed it toward sustained conflict. One would think the people of Gaza would look to the Left Bank and see what could be.
Isn't it sad to know that Israel - under Netanyahu - will join America - under Trump - in becoming pariah states similar to Russian, Iraq, China, North Korea, and Venezuela.
Trump speaking with Bibi in tow... we keep sending this 79-year-old man with a limited vocabulary, whose face is painted in orange pigment and hair is indescribable, up to a podium on national television to speak to breaking global developments and America's interests, but all he does - in incomplete and broken sentences - is adlib, ramble, and rant with words under his breath and awkward pauses, mixed messages, and excessive hyperbole about how important he is, and which other things he thinks he's accomplished, and who needs to be warned or threatened, who he hates, who he likes, and who he thinks likes him....
Embarrassing . His energy is particularly uneven today, his facial skin especially ruddy, and his breathing seems labored.... Mush mouth as usual.Donald "enemy of the people" Trump promises "ALL HELL" if Hamas doesn't sign. All they have to do is look at Putin to see he doesn't mean it as usual.
https://www.cnn.com/2025/10/03/politics … -gaza-dealUNBELIEVABLE!!
https://www.cnn.com/2025/10/02/politics … y-migrantsDo you then believe that states welcoming illegal aliens into our country should be paid more because they ignore the law?
THAT would be UNBELIEVABLE!!Once you can prove to me that states are welcoming illegal aliens then I can answer that question.
That said, I see I stuck this in the wrong forum.
Donald "the enemy of the people" Trump has had one great accomplishment while being president (and 2 or 3 less notable good ones) and that was Operation Warpspeed.
If this Gaza thing goes through, it will be his second.
https://www.cnn.com/world/live-news/isr … p-10-05-25But then Netanyahu is trying to screw it up.
• Despite Trump’s assertion that Israel had “temporarily stopped” bombing the enclave, dozens of people were killed Saturday in Israeli strikes with at least 15 more so far today, according to information from Gaza’s hospitals.The news is that Trump may get his cease fire - if they can look past Hamas staying armed and part of the gov't.
Biden left Trump an ongoing cease fire but Trump couldn't maintain it and things got much worse. Now, it seems it is possible Trump may get back to where he was when he took office, but this time possibly with an agreement on something Biden's ceasefire didn't have - a plan for the day after.
https://www.cnn.com/world/live-news/isr … r-10-08-25I congratulate Trump on getting back to where Biden left the ceasefire back in January. This is assuming, of course, that neither Hamas nor Netanyahu doesn't blow up Phase 1 before it begins.
https://www.cnn.com/world/live-news/isr … r-10-08-25
'There's NO DOUBT who won the war': Former US ambassador to Israel
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2x9URgnE1IUThe answer is Nobody won the war. The Israelis, the Palestinians, and Hamas all lost big time.
I disagree.
Israel successfully defended its homeland and people from a determined and ruthless enemy. They will now end the terrorist enclave known as Gaza and will be able to rebuild it so another Oct. 7 doesn't occur.
It is hamas who lost the most.I'm not so sure Hamas lost the most, I think the Palestinian People did. Israel, because of Netanyahu, has no friends left in the world other than Trump - I can't consider that a win, just less loss.
Also, us not on the far-Right are able to understand that Gaza, the West Bank, and East Jerusalem was a place where the world agreed Palestinian people could live and govern themselves in peace.
For those that are interested in the facts:
* Those three enclaves and limited self-rule were created by the Oslo Accord to provide a place for Palestinians to live.
* At the same time, the Palestinian Authority was created to govern the Palestinian people. The election results gave Hamas a little over a majority of the seats.
* In 2005, Israel recognized that Palestine was a separate entity by withdrawing from the areas given to the Palestinians
* In 2007, Hamas violently split with the PA and [u]forcibly[/b] took control of Gaza.
* The PA itself has not committed any hostile acts against Israel, even though some individuals and organizations adject to the PA did.
* Hamas has been terrorizing Israel all along.
* Israel, when under right-wing leadership committed many acts of violence against the Palestinians including stealing their land. While Israel obviously doesn't see it that way, the rest of the world does, including the UN officially.
That is the REAL story, not the one presented in this forum.
That said, it would really be wonderful if all 20 points of Trump's plan were instituted, which would mean the almost total neutering of Hamas. Unfortunately, I don't think, realistically, it will get to that point.
*
*.You do forget many details.
In 2005, Israel withdrew from Gaza. It was in hope for a lasting peace. We all know how well that worked out. It has proved the Palestinians are unable to govern themselves without turning into a terror state.
The Palestinian Authority? You mean the organization that has in its charter that people who kill jews will get financial compensation? Do you mean THAT group of people. The people who regularly promote terror campaigns against the jews?
There is NO such thing as Palestinian land. There has NEVR been such a thing as Palestinian land. It is simply made up fiction. It doesn't matter what your imagination tells you.
The only way there will be a lasting peace is for Israel to maintain a military presence in the Gaza strip.
If it were up to me I would have them take over Judea and Samaria and govern that area. The PA has made it quite difficult for Christians to visit Bethlehem. Forget about those who want to live there for religious reasons.
If you go in a civilian car to Bethlehem, you will cross checkpoints. If you get out of your car for a few seconds Palestinian children will throw rocks at you. If you try to pick up a rock and throw it back, the IDF will stop you and arrest you if you try to throw a rock back at them. These kids know this and if a rock hits you or your car, they will cheer and laugh.
These are not normal people. Trust me, I've seen it.And you probably need to read what I wrote. For example - I did not forget about 2005, I wrote * In 2005, Israel recognized that Palestine was a separate entity by withdrawing from the areas given to the Palestinians
I was talking about the PA THAT DOES NOT have in its charter that people who kill Jews will get financial compensation? I am not sure who you are referring to.
Palestinian land - So you are claiming the Oslo Accord doesn't exist then.
I think there is a better way to lasting peace that the world, save for you and Netanyahu, believe would work - create a two-state solution and have the right-wing, authoritarian leaders of Israel stop stealing land the Palestinians have a legal right to.
Again, this must be the PA that lives in your head. This is the TRUTH - Christians—both foreign pilgrims and Palestinian Christians—do face obstacles reaching Bethlehem, but those obstacles are largely tied to Israeli checkpoints, closures, and permit rules, not a PA policy to block Christian visitors.
As to your vignette, while there may be some instances of that when tensions are high, it is not the rule by any means.
As far as laughing - do you mean the way ICE was laughing at the pastor they were shooting?The Oslo Accords collapsed. Where have you been?
Oslo’s Collapse, 1996–2000
In November 1995, Rabin was assassinated by Yigal Amir, an Israeli who opposed the Oslo Accords on religious grounds. Rabin’s murder was followed by a string of terrorist attacks by Hamas, which undermined support for the Labor Party in Israel’s May 1996 elections. New Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu hailed from the Likud Party, which had historically opposed Palestinian statehood and withdrawal from the occupied territories.
Worried that the peace process might collapse, the Clinton administration involved itself more actively in Israeli-Palestinian negotiations. In January 1997, following intensive U.S. mediation, Israel and the PA signed the Hebron Protocol, which provided for the transfer of most of Hebron to Palestinian control. In October 1998, Clinton hosted Netanyahu and Arafat at the Wye River Plantation, where they negotiated an agreement calling for further Israeli withdrawals from the West Bank. Infighting over the implementation of the Wye Memorandum, however, brought down Netanyahu’s government in January 1999.
In Israel’s May 1999 elections, the Labor Party’s Ehud Barak decisively defeated Netanyahu. Barak predicted that he could reach agreements with both Syria and the Palestinians in 12 to 15 months, and pledged to withdraw Israeli troops from southern Lebanon. In September, Barak signed the Sharm al-Shaykh Memorandum with Arafat, which committed both sides to begin permanent status negotiations. An initial round of meetings, however, achieved nothing, and by December the Palestinians suspended talks over settlement-building in the occupied territories.
Barak then focused on Syria. In January 2000, Israeli, Syrian, and U.S. delegations convened in West Virginia for peace talks. These negotiations foundered when Barak refused to reaffirm Rabin’s pledge to withdraw to the June 4, 1967 line, arguing that none of the concessions offered by the Syrian delegation in return could be considered final, since Syrian President Hafiz al-Asad was not present. A subsequent meeting between Clinton and Asad in Geneva failed to produce an Israeli-Syrian accord.
Barak then withdrew Israeli forces unilaterally from Lebanon and returned to the Palestinian track. At the prime minister’s insistence, Clinton convened a summit at Camp David in July 2000, where he, Barak, and Arafat attempted to reach a final agreement on the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. Accounts differ as to why Camp David failed, but it is clear that despite additional concessions by Barak, the Israelis and Palestinians remained strongly at odds over borders, Jerusalem, and whether Israel would recognize Palestinian refugees’ “right of return.” The summit ended without a settlement; Clinton would blame Arafat for its failure.
On September 28, riots erupted following a visit of Likud Party leader Ariel Sharon to the Temple Mount, and soon escalated into a wave of Israeli-Palestinian violence that became known as the al-Aqsa Intifada. In December 2000, Clinton put forward his own proposals for an Israeli-Palestinian agreement. By this point, however, the president was leaving office, Barak faced electoral defeat, and Israeli-Palestinian violence continued unabated.
Thus, by the end of 2000, the prospect of ending the Arab-Israeli conflict looked more distant than it had eight years earlier. The Clinton administration had helped facilitate Israeli-Jordanian peace and lay the foundations for Palestinian self-rule. More broadly, the negotiations of the 1990s helped Israel, the Palestinians, and Syria break with numerous diplomatic taboos and establish a basis for what a comprehensive Arab-Israeli peace might look like. But a settlement of the Arab-Israeli conflict remained elusive.
"I was talking about the PA THAT DOES NOT have in its charter that people who kill Jews will get financial compensation? "
There is NO such PA.
Incentivizing Terrorism:
Palestinian Authority Allocations to Terrorists and their Families
The Palestinian Authority’s legislation and allocations of monthly salaries and benefits rewarding imprisoned and released terrorists, and the families of “Martyrs,” amount to $300 million annually. This financial reward clearly demonstrates the PA’s institutional commitment to sponsoring terror against Israel.
The PA maintains longstanding legislation and payments to subsidize terrorists and their families. This amounts to an officially sanctioned PA government incentive system to kill Israelis. When I learned of this in November 2015, I was quite shocked. I proceeded to raise the issue with organized American Jewish community leaders and Israeli policymakers, and was told “everybody knows.” Disconcerted by my own lack of knowledge, I canvassed numerous American political leaders who, without exception, were unaware of the PA legislation/budget. The few leaders who were aware that the PA directly pays terrorists thought that the funding was only $5-6 million; they were shocked to learn that according to the official PA budget online, it was $300 million for 2016.
During the past year, the prevailing opinion was that the wave of knifers against Israelis consisted of young and disaffected “lone wolves.” As I examined the issue more closely, I realized that the “incitement” is much more than just an errant cleric or wayward school board, but rather is an institutional campaign of violence against Israel, coordinated and funded by the PA itself. This “struggle” or war is endorsed by the Palestinian leadership, as evidenced by their 2004 legislation specifying, “The prisoners and released prisoners are a fighting sector and integral part of the fabric of Arab Palestinian society.” PA budget line items are earmarked for funding prisoners, released prisoners, and families of “martyrs.”
https://jcpa.org/paying-salaries-terror … ntentions/
As far as the situation with Christians in Bethlehem...you have NO idea.You can certainly believe what you want. To me, the facts say otherwise, facts which I have presented multiple times.
Today the remaining 20 hostages were free in Gaza and Trump was rightly cheered for that effort by the Israeli parliament and people.
To keep it in perspective, however, prior to that these releases occurred under Biden:
* In Oct 2023, 4 hostages were released
* In the Nov 2023 truce, 104 hostages were released.
* In Jan - Feb 2025, in the ceasefire arraigned by Biden with some participation by Whitkoff, 30 hostages were released.
Biden was rightly cheered by the Israeli people after each release.
What neither Biden nor Trump has been able to accomplish so far is a permanent cessation of hostilities or a lasting peace. What Trump did do that Biden didn't was develop a plan for a permanent cessation of hostilities IF, and it is still a big if, both sides agree to it.
Biden supported a two-state solution that should bring lasting peace if it happens. Trump initially opposed such a solution but may have changed his thinking.
https://www.cnn.com/world/live-news/isr … e-10-13-25Biden national security adviser says ‘of course’ Trump should get credit on Israel-Hamas deal
Former Biden national security adviser Jake Sullivan on Sunday supported President Trump getting credit for the deal between Israel and Hamas.
“Do you think he deserves credit here?” CNN’s Dana Bash asked Sullivan on “State of the Union.”
“Of course he does. And I give credit to President Trump, I give credit to [Steve] Witkoff and [Jared] Kushner and [Secretary of State Marco] Rubio. These are hard jobs. The president of the United States is the hardest job in the world, and these other jobs, including the job I occupied, are tremendously difficult,” Sullivan responded.
“And to get to something like today takes a village, and it takes determination and really hard work, and so I, without question, offer credit for that,” he added.
Trump recently announced that Israel and Hamas had reached an agreement to free the remaining Israeli hostages and halt fighting in Gaza.
The president said Israel and Hamas had backed “the first Phase” of a peace plan announced in late September, a notable reprieve to stop a war that had gone on for more than two years since Hamas attacked Israel on Oct. 7, 2023.
Sen. Mark Kelly (D-Ariz.) also said on Sunday that Trump “should get a lot of credit” on the deal between Israel and Hamas.
“Think he should get a lot of credit. I mean, this was his deal. He worked this out. He sent Steve Witkoff and Jared Kushner, you know, over to negotiate this and it so far has gone well,” Kelly said earlier on “State of the Union.”
“Hopefully the hostages get released here, might not be within 24 hours, but certainly, I think by Monday. And that’s progress, and now we’re going to have to see what happens next,” he added.
On Monday, Trump is set to address Israel’s legislature and attend a Middle East peace ceremony in Egypt. The president’s Knesset address is scheduled for 11 a.m. local time, a little less than two hours after he is expected to reach Tel Aviv.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/articles/bid … 54969.htmlThat is something Trump people won't say about Biden who brought back many more hostages. To me, that makes Sullivan the adult in the room.
Who do you hear that isn't giving Trump credit for getting the last of the hostages out?I think most believe that Netanyahu knew the attack was going to happen and let it happen anyway on October 7.
Think about all the lives that have been lost in the past year between Israel and Gaza and Israel attacking Iran and Qatar and Syria, did I leave any off?
All of this, every single bit of it did not have to happen. The only reason that they did was because Netanyahu and Trump made a deal.
That deal was Donald Trump gets into office, helps Netanyahu stay in power and win in Gaza, they both set up real estate on the plateau and make bank.
So no, I will not join anyone in heaping praise on the two men that purposely committed genocide... Credit where credit is due
I think we all know that this Administration is going to continue to let netanyahu continue his brutality in Gaza.
Looks like Hamas isn't going to allow peace to take hold.
https://www.cnn.com/2025/10/12/middleea … y-war-intl"Fury grows in Israel over delayed release of deceased hostages"
This, along with Hamas massacring the Palestinians in their 42% Gaza is why I am not very optimistic about Trump finishing with a lasting end of hostilities. Already Netanyahu is threatening starve the Palestinians even more.
Worse, although sensible, the international forces are to stay behind the yellow line allowing Hamas to kill its way back into Gaza gov't.
https://www.cnn.com/2025/10/14/middleea … latam-intlThe biden administration trying to take any credit for the peace deal in Gaza and release of the hostages is beyond ridiculous. I know TDS is intense, but this is too much. At least hillary clinton is starting to show signs of dealing with her Trump Derangement Syndrome.
Clinton offers unexpected compliment to Trump over Gaza peace deal
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/news/ … -deal.htmlDid Trump, the enemy of the people, release 110 hostages - NO.
But Biden, the friend of the people, did. It will be interesting to see how you twist that into a slam against Biden.How many hostages were there when President Trump took office ten months ago?
How many hostages was Biden able to secure release for? And Trump....
Mike, who has worked to bring an end to this horrific war? Who has actually helped bring peace to the Middle East, something so many before him only talked about? It seems some have forgotten that. Instead, they’re busy counting the number of hostages released, as if that somehow overshadows the broader progress being made. I guess when real achievements are unfolding, they have to find something petty to focus on — because that’s all they’ve got left. I mean, Mike, the crumbs that are left are fewer and fewer daily.
But there is no peace? Bibi is right back at his genocidal goals today...
Biden offered Bibi the same plan a year ago. Bibi wanted to wait till Trump took office. Imagine the lives that could have been saved if Biden’s deal was accepted.
Trump and Netanyahu really are, criminals and opportunists.
While addressing the Knesset, Trump asked, “Why don’t you give him (Bibi) a pardon?”
Shocking Israel has already found a reason to shut off aid to Gaza this morning....That is complete and absolute nonsense. Where do you come up with this stuff? I will say one thing about those on the left, your imagination is impressive. The BBC provided a pretty good article about it.
How Trump secured a Gaza breakthrough which eluded Biden
This US president's close ties with the Gulf states are well documented. He has business dealings with Qatar and the UAE. He began both his presidential terms with state visits to Saudi Arabia. This year, he also stopped in Doha and Abu Dhabi.
His Abraham Accords, which normalised relations between Israel and several Muslim states, including the UAE, was the biggest diplomatic achievement of his first term.
The time he spent in the capitals of the Arabian Peninsula earlier this year helped change his thinking, says Ed Husain of the Council on Foreign Relations. The US president did not visit Israel on this Middle East trip but visited the UAE, Saudi Arabia and Qatar where he heard repeated calls to bring an end to the war.
Less than a month after that Israeli strike on Doha, Trump sat nearby as Netanyahu personally phoned Qatar to apologise. And later that day, the Israeli leader signed off on Trump's 20-point peace plan for Gaza - one that also had the backing of key Muslim nations in the region.
If Trump's relationship with Netanyahu gave him the room to pressure Israel to strike a deal, his history with Muslim leaders may have secured their support, and helped them convince Hamas to commit to the deal.
"One of the things that clearly happened was that President Trump developed leverage with the Israelis, and indirectly with Hamas," says Jon Alterman of the Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS).
"That made a difference. His ability to do this on his timing, and not succumb to the desires of the combatants has been a problem that lot of previous presidents have struggled with, and he seems to do relatively successfully."
The fact that Trump is much more popular in Israel than Netanyahu himself was leverage that he used to his benefit, he adds.
Now Israel has committed to releasing more than 1,000 Palestinians held in Israeli prisons and has agreed to a partial withdrawal from Gaza.
Hamas will release all the remaining hostages, living and dead, taken during the original 7 October Hamas attack, which resulted in the death of more than 1,200 Israelis.
An end to the war, which has resulted in the devastation of Gaza and the deaths of more than 67,000 Palestinians is now imaginable.
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cj3yke64vp6oYou really should check your sources before popping off. In fact, Trump's 20-point plan seems to be a knock-off of Biden's 3-phase plan.
Biden’s 2024 proposal (May 31, 2024) spelled out three phases: a full ceasefire and IDF pullback from populated areas, staged hostage–prisoner exchanges, and steps toward reconstruction/governance. Hamas publicly accepted a version of this framework earlier in May.
It appears the only thing Trump brought to the table was a peacekeeping force.
https://bidenwhitehouse.archives.gov/br … hatgpt.comActually, it's not.
Under President Donald Trump's plan, the hostages were released first.
Why didn't biden's plan get enacted?
Easy, he had no leverage in the middle east. Nobody respected him.
The first part was to isolate hamas and cut off their funding. President Donald Trump did this after bombing Iran and promising worse things if they continued to fund hamas. This scared the other terror organizations. Qatar was then given the carrot and the stick. If they continued to fund hamas, President Donald Trump would permit Israel to bomb them as they permitted hamas leaders in their country. Then he gave them the carrot of economic benefits. That cut off the Qatar funds.
With hamas out of money and out of support, they had no choice but to take the deal from President Donald Trump.
Nobody, including Israel or hamas, took biden serious then or now. Nobody who was part of the biden team had the diplomatic skills to pull it off. To think biden or his cabinet had anything to do with it is a total joke.How many hostages were released under Biden and then under trump?
Mike, "That is complete and absolute nonsense. Where do you come up with this stuff?"
It is nonsense --- But, in my view, they are now very desperate and are really grasping at nonsensical narratives. The misinformation here is knee deep.Shar,
Isn't it clear what we are dealing with here?
People on the left constantly make claims and don't back them up with proof. I guess they believe we think so highly of them they don't have to provide proof and can depend on us to believe everything they say. How delusional!
I provided information from a left wing British news source that backs up my claim...and they STILL don't get it.
Are you coming to the conclusion I am? Most of those on the left aren't capable of an open and honest debate. It appears to be a concept beyond their ability to grasp.
It's very depressing because I know left-leaning people who can have a respectful debate. Not many, but there are some.
Again, the ranks of the left seems to be filled with people who close their eyes, cover their ears, and constantly shout, "No, No, No, No."
I've never seen such behavior affect so many people.How many hostages released under Biden versus Trump?
Who got a peace deal signed by all sides TRUMP versus biden?
There's no peace in Gaza...
How many hostages release was secured under Biden versus Trump???Less than a year in office, a peace deal and the last of the hostages back.
Trump versus biden?
Trump is a CONVICTED criminal and Netanyahu is indicted and fighting desperately not to be convicted
Israel is saying they aren't going to honor the terms of the ceasefire because Palestinians can't turn over the remains of hostages underneath the rubble THAT ISRAEL CAUSED.
But they also won't allow fuel or bulldozers in to search.... Gosh, it's almost like they planned this.No doubt it was at the back of the war criminal's mind.
Joe Biden and Netanyahu were offered Gaza deal a year ago, says negotiator https://share.google/HeSNlLkue012bzlhT
Already today, Israel has:
-Conducted a drone strike on Khan Younis in Gaza
-Shot & wounded two others near Khan Younis
-Killed 5 Palestinians in Gaza City
-Fired on & wounded a several others near Jabalia
All in violation of the “ceasefire.”
Most of us knew this so-called peace deal was nothing but bullshitThis speech should be played on EVERY network, but unfortunately the USA can't even hear how great this is because our media wants to destroy Trump.
All you ever hear is how the rest of the world hates Trump, makes fun of him, but in reality, they honor & celebrate him.
https://x.com/TheEXECUTlONER_/status/19 … 7309476236
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