All Things Israel and Palestine
Trump wasn't kidding. There really are people who will excuse anything he does. Anything.
There are two tells for me about a person's judgement: smoking and MAGA. These folks have every right to their choice, but I'm keeping a safe distance.NPR reporter left stunned by Dem voters' thoughts on Trump
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsqDduwcI0sI started to watch and then saw it was from the least trusted network and admitted liars Fox News.
Your link got me doing a bit more research on the subject, Gallop just put out some information that correlates with what you presented.
ECONOMY
MAY 6, 2024 Gallup "WASHINGTON, D.C. -- With Americans less optimistic about the state of the U.S. economy than they have been in recent months and concern about inflation persisting, their confidence in President Joe Biden to recommend or do the right thing for the economy is among the lowest Gallup has measured for any president since 2001."
"Forty-six percent of U.S. adults say they have "a great deal" or "a fair amount" of confidence in Trump to do or recommend the right thing for the economy, while fewer say the same of Biden (38%), Powell (39%), and Democratic (38%) and Republican (36%) leaders in Congress.
To a large degree, this reflects partisanship; Democrats are confident in Biden, Powell and Democratic congressional leaders, while Republicans are confident in Trump and Republican congressional leaders. Partisans have little to no confidence in the opposing party’s leaders. While political independents are not overly confident in any of the leaders, they have the most confidence in Trump."
"Gallup has tracked confidence in presidents’ ability to do the right thing for the economy annually since George W. Bush took office in 2001. Bush, Barack Obama and Biden (to a lesser extent) enjoyed majority-level economic confidence ratings at the start of their presidencies, while the public's confidence in Trump never rose above his initial 48% reading. Trump’s current rating is essentially tied with that of his last year in office.
Obama’s confidence ratings were at least 50% each year except for one (42% in 2014). Biden has fared much worse as confidence in his economic management dropped precipitously in 2022 from 57% to 40% amid sharply higher inflation, and it has been below 40% since then. Only Bush earned lower confidence from Americans than Biden has since last year -- by the end of his second term, amid the Great Recession, when just 34% of Americans expressed confidence in his economic abilities."
"Americans' Confidence in President to Do the Right Thing for the U.S. Economy,"
Biden is at 38%
While Trump was at 47% before he left office, and never fell below 42% much of his time in office he remained over 45%.
To check out more, and view charts source https://news.gallup.com/poll/644750/con … y-low.aspxThere is how people FEEL about something and then there are the facts about the same thing. People may FEEL that way about Biden, but they can't point to any facts that supports their feeling.
People usually vote based on their feelings of things.
That is unfortunately true. Our founders had hoped our citizens were virtuous enough to overcome self-interest and use reason to cast their votes. Hasn't turned out that way.
That was one reason why there is an electoral college system and senators were not directly elected by citizens. They were very afraid of something like MAGA developing or the equivalent on the Left.
" People may FEEL that way about Biden, but they can't point to any facts that supports their feeling."
Then they look at what is occurring in our streets, at our border, and best of all they turn their pockets inside out, and find they can't borrow any more to pay bills. They look clearly at the facts, they point at Joe Biden and his poor job record, his weak governing, and his failing cognitive state. In my view, most realize they need a new president to dig them out of their deep holes. For those that don't, I will be kind and leave it there.
You can listen to and believe admitted liars who manipulate the news to support the right-wing cause, I chose not to. Instead, I listen to news that is known not to lie on purpose and generally present a fair and balanced view.
Biden Donors FUNDED Anti Israel Protest, Democrats SCREWED, Deep State Has NO CHOICE But Trump 2024
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6WWaIHdvroHamas accepts Gaza ceasefire proposal from Egypt and Qatar
Peace is at hand again. No, wait. Israel doesn't agree yet, they are sending a "low-level" negotiating team to Qatar to see what it is all about. Why are they dragging their feet?
Well, maybe because there was a bait-and-switch going on here.
You see, Israel and Egypt worked out a framework a little while ago. At first blush, it seemed some version of this is what Hamas was agreeing to. Not so, say the Israeli's, it is nothing like what they agreed to. In fact, it has a red line in it - a permanent ceasefire.
While I don't like Netanyahu and think is no less a terrorist as Hamas, I still support Israel's "no permanent ceasefire" position. To me, that is still self-destructive given Hamas' (not Palestine's) intent to destroy them. Consequently, a temporary ceasefire should be all Hamas gets until they agree to turn over all of their weapons.
https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/06/middleea … index.htmlIsrael is now entering the last hamas stronghold of Rafah.
https://time.com/6975185/israel-rafah-m … ease-fire/
This will mean the end of hamas.
I believe when this is done, Gaza will have to remain under military occupation for the foreseeable future. I don't see a way around it. This is the only way to guarantee Israel's protection for its citizens.It has to be this way Mike! Hamas MUST be completely eliminated! Indoctrinated children of Gaza will have to be counseled, deprogrammed, loved through it, witnessed to about the love of Jesus Christ. I don't how to fix them, in order for them to go forward with a normal, happy, fulfilled life. Hopefully they can be saved from a life spent in total HATE of the Jewish people!
There is no other way around any of this.Absolutely, it's crucial to halt the activities of Hamas to prevent further unrest.
So long as people like Netanyahu is in charge, Hamas will always have a willing stream of recruits. By his indiscriminate bombing, he has turned at least two generations of Palestinians into permanent enemies.
Try 75 years of Palestinians preparing for just such a day as Oct 7... Try decades of Palestinians teaching their children hate, and to kill Jewish people. Try Palestinians voting in one terrorist group after another to push their vile ideologies.
Elections in Gaza and the West Bank have been few and far between and are certainly not free and fair when they have happened. Gaza hasn't had an election in almost 20 years. And the West Bank hasn't done much better.
Looking back at 2021..
"Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas on Thursday called off next month's parliamentary elections after challengers from his own party threatened to weaken his hold on power.
Abbas' decision, which came just two days before campaigning was supposed to begin, indefinitely postponed the May 22 vote and apparently a July presidential election as well. The postponement angered Palestinians eager to replace a president who has not held a vote in a decade-and-a-half
In Gaza, Hamas’s tenure since seizing power in 2007 can be characterized in similar terms. In short, they are authoritarians, not democrats, and their underlying motivations for holding elections have nothing to do with restoring the democratic process. There is no Democratic process. The key to a post-war landscape is a Palestinian vote.
"Recent polling from December (2019) shows that Hamas leaders and Abbas are very unpopular, with 61% wanting the latter to resign and only 31% believing he is the best candidate in his party."
https://www.brookings.edu/articles/elec … e-or-ploy/
https://www.npr.org/2021/04/29/99206500 … -electionsI think the palestinian people are responsible for who they choose to govern them.
Yes, palestinian people are responsible for making changes.
So, they either die when hamas goes to war with Israel or they die when they try to overthrow a terrorist organization that governs them. Should they try to overthrow hamas, I'm certain they would get significant support from Israel and others around the world."I think the palestinian people are responsible for who they choose to govern them."
Would it be okay if the governance that you chose in 2006 decided to never let you vote again? But let's delve into the facts a bit more.
Again...
64.2% of Gaza are 25 years old or younger. You are required to be 18 years old to vote, meaning you have to be at least 35 years old to have voted in the previous Gaza election.
Meaning?
GAZA 2006 elections:
-55.5% did NOT vote Hamas
-45.5% of voters for Hamas
-77% voter participation
=35% population voted Hamas
Population was 1.35m so 64% of today's 2.1m, given many were children in 2006, assume only 50% of 45.5%=
=MAX 22.75% OF CURRENT GAZA POPULATION VOTED HAMAS.
These people need to be allowed to vote.
In my opinion, it is a concerning posture to say that a civilian is a legitimate military target because of how they may have voted.
https://www.iemed.org/publication/the-y … -of-hamas/
https://www.indexmundi.com/gaza_strip/d … ofile.htmlThat is all well and good.
I know things about Ukraine because of having relative from there.
They removed a president that was not serving the needs of the people.
It is called the "Revolution of Dignity" in Ukraine.
It happens.
palestinians can do it as well. They just have to have the desire to do it. I think their inaction in trying to remove hamas is an example of their support for them.Overthrowing a government, even in a pseudo-state like Gaza, is much easier said than done. This is doubly true when the government is a violent organization of religious fanatics. I would assume Gazans would prefer not to be governed by Hamas militants, but they can’t simply start up a campaign to get rid of them, not without grave risks to their lives, livelihoods, and families. For one thing, they are too busy struggling to survive from day to day. For another, Hamas cements its hold on power through an outsize role in the Gazan economy: It is the only organization that can reliably pay salaries, it maintains a stranglehold on inflows of foreign aid, and it keeps Gaza dependent on Israel for water and electricity by refusing to build infrastructure . If your ability to feed your family depends on Hamas patronage, even if you’d like to stand up to them, would you risk it?
These people are truly victims. In some sense, if Israel were to destroy Hamas for good in this war (a doubtful proposition), it would be doing the Gazans a favor. However, the Israeli government’s thirst for revenge is not coupled with any plans for what comes after: Who will rebuild Gaza, who will govern it, and how will it avoid falling into an even greater humanitarian catastrophe? It is easy not to think about these questions if your starting point is that the Gazans had it coming.
If the "war " leads to both Hamas and Netanyahu’s right-wing coalition losing popular legitimacy and exiting the scene, it would be a silver lining to a very dark cloud since neither Israelis nor Palestinians deserve the mediocre leadership they’ve been saddled with. But at least the Israelis have some power to change that if they want to. The people of Gaza do not.
Collective blame and collective punishment, after all, should have a special resonance for the Jewish people."but they can’t simply start up a campaign to get rid of them, not without grave risks to their lives, livelihoods, and families."
Sounds like the story behind every citizenry that rose up and removed horrible leaders. This includes Ukraine, The United States, Mexico and many others. This is the cost of freedom.
"Who will rebuild Gaza, who will govern it, and how will it avoid falling into an even greater humanitarian catastrophe?"
That is being discussed.
"Netanyahu presents post-war plan to cabinet, aims for ‘local officials’ to govern Gaza
‘Day after Hamas’ paper sees Egypt cooperation to end smuggling; Arab countries funding reconstruction; no unilateral Palestinian state; no UNRWA; Gaza ‘de-radicalized,’ demilitarized
Notably, the document of principles Netanyahu presented to security cabinet ministers at Thursday night’s meeting does not specifically name the PA or rule out its participation in the post-war governance of Gaza.
Instead, it says that civil affairs in Gaza will be run by “local officials” who have “administrative experience” and who are not tied to “countries or entities that support terrorism.”
The IDF will maintain an indefinite freedom to operate throughout the entire Strip to prevent the resurgence of terror activity, the document says, describing this as an intermediate-term principle.
The plan states that Israel will move forward with its already-in-motion project to establish a security buffer zone on the Palestinian side of the Strip’s border, adding that it will remain in place “as long as there is a security need for it.”
This plan is directly at odds with one of the Biden administration’s own principles for post-war Gaza, which states that there will be no reduction in the enclave’s territory.
The document presented by Netanyahu also offers the most concrete details to date regarding Israel’s plans for the Egyptian-Gaza border, which has been plagued by smuggling both above and below ground. It states that Israel will enforce a “southern closure” on the border to prevent the revival of terror activity.
Also in the intermediate stage, Israel will maintain security control “over the entire area west of Jordan,” from the land, air and sea “to prevent the strengthening of terrorist elements in the [West Bank] and the Gaza Strip and to thwart threats from them towards Israel,” the document states.
Netanyahu’s plan envisions Gaza’s “complete demilitarization… beyond what is required for the needs of maintaining public order.” It adds that Israel will be responsible for realizing this goal for the foreseeable future, potentially leaving the door open for other forces to finish the job down the line.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/presentin … vern-gaza/
So you want to convert the Palestinians to Christianity?
I was discussing children brought up to hate and how they might be turned around. Offering suggestions, but admitting that I don't know how to fix it.
But yes, as a Christian, naturally I want non-believers to accept Christ! Do you have a point?
Israelis outing Netanyahu's torture camps. The whistleblowers "They paint a picture of a facility where doctors sometimes amputated prisoners’ limbs due to injuries sustained from constant handcuffing; of medical procedures sometimes performed by underqualified medics earning it a reputation for being “a paradise for interns”; and where the air is filled with the smell of neglected wounds left to rot."
https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/10/middleea … index.htmlAmerican doctors say they cannot evacuate Gaza amid Israeli siege
Two American doctors who volunteered to provide medical care in Gaza say they were stuck in the enclave without safe passage Monday following Israel’s seizure of the Rafah border.
Both were scheduled to leave Rafah Monday so another mission could take over the aid work but have since been told there is no longer a safe route to exit the besieged strip after Israeli troops seized control of Gaza’s Rafah border crossing last week. They were both sheltering at the hospital Monday evening as they waited for a way out...there were potentially 20 to 30 more Americans along with them at the European Hospital who were also unable to evacuate.
The Rafah crossing into Egypt has been closed since Israeli troops seized it a week ago. Israel gained full control over the entry and exit of people and goods for the first time since it withdrew soldiers and settlers from Gaza in 2005, though it has long maintained a blockade of the coastal enclave in cooperation with Egypt.
No food has reportedly entered the two main border crossings in southern Gaza for the past week, a region that had been sheltering 1.3 million Palestinians, many of whom have fled since Israel took control of the crossing.
Both doctors say they have seen conditions get worse each day, with little to no supplies left to treat patients, many of whom are children.
“You’re used to seeing patients improve the more you work with them, but here, they just deteriorate,” he said. “You see wounds with broken bones underneath and mangled tissues…the wounds are different and more horrific and severe over here just due to the mechanism of injuries.”
Sabha said the sanitary conditions were abhorrent, with flies, mosquitoes and other insects constantly in the operating room and wound care areas in the intensive care unit.
The U.N. warned of a potential collapse of the flow of aid to Palestinians from the closure of the Rafah crossing from Egypt and the other main crossing into Gaza, and U.N. officials say northern Gaza is experiencing “full-blown famine.”
Stop the genocide!The Israel war on Palestine even flowed over into this years ‘Eurovision Song Contest’ causing much controversy – as summarised in this short video:- https://youtu.be/1WsLMJbbh2o
Background info into Eurovision:
• Eurovision is meant to be apolitical and was launched in 1956 in an attempt to help bring peace in Europe (the ‘make love not war’ principle.) e.g. prior to the 2nd world war European countries had been raging constant wars with each other for over 2 millennia.
• The Eurovision Song Contest is an annual event (across the whole of Europe, and beyond) that’s been held every May since 1956. And these days (using modern technology) the viewing public across Europe (and beyond) vote (by telephone) to select the winner.
• It was Eurovision that shot ABBA to worldwide fame, when ABBA won the 1974 Eurovision.
• Eurovision is a big annual event in Europe in that the viewing figures of Eurovision are larger than the viewing figures of the American Super Bowl.5 Israeli soldiers killed by friendly fire in northern Gaza
The Israeli military said Thursday that five soldiers were killed and seven injured in a friendly fire incident in northern Gaza, amid renewed battles in the area against regrouped Hamas militants.
"An initial investigation into the deaths of five IDF soldiers reveals that IDF tanks, located dozens of meters away, identified a weapon and fired shells at an IDF force nearby," the IDF said in a statement.
"This force had entered the northern part of Gaza and occupied buildings along a logistic route. The tanks fired two shells for unclear reasons, resulting in seven more soldiers being injured, three severely."
Seven months into its war aimed at eliminating Hamas, Israeli forces are again engaged in intense fighting in areas of northern Gaza the IDF said earlier had been cleared, renewing doubts over the government's strategy in the war.
Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has come under growing pressure from the U.S. to lay out a plan for post-war Gaza, and on Wednesday he faced rare public criticism on the issue from within his own War Cabinet.
In a nationally televised statement, Defense Minister Yoav Gallant challenged Netanyahu over what he said was a refusal to discuss the issue. He said this would lead to Israel being forced to rule over the Palestinian enclave again, which he said he opposed. We must make tough decisions for the future of our country, favoring national priorities above all other possible considerations, even with the possibility of personal or political costs," Gallant said.Do you think there has ever been an armed conflict that didn't have deaths from friendly fire?
Trust me, it has happened many times.Seems to happen a lot with the IDF, don't you think?
Not really. This is urban warfare. This is acknowledged as the most difficult type of fighting. Close quarters, Going from building to building. I'm surprised there hasn't been more.
Israel needs new leadership. Like his mirror image, Trump, Netanyahu has failed his people and his soldiers. (I wonder if he thinks his soldiers are "losers" like Trump does of American soldiers?)
International Criminal Court Prosecutor Requests Warrants for Netanyahu and Hamas Leaders
The International Criminal Court prosecutor, Karim Khan, said Monday that he had requested arrest warrants for the leaders of Hamas and for Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel for war crimes and crimes against humanity in relation to the Oct. 7 attack and the war in Gaza.
In a statement, Mr. Khan said he was applying for arrest warrants for Yahya Sinwar, Muhammad Deif and Ismail Haniyeh of Hamas. He also said he was requesting warrants for Mr. Netanyahu and for Israel’s defense minister, Yoav Gallant.
While Mr. Khan’s request must still be approved by judges from the court, the announcement is a blow to the government of Mr. Netanyahu and will likely fuel international criticism of Israel’s strategy in its seven-month campaign against Hamas and the war’s toll on Gaza’s civilian population.
There was no immediate response from the Israeli government or from Hamas. Israel is not a member of the court and does not recognize its jurisdiction in Israel or Gaza. But if warrants are issued, those named could be arrested if they travel to one of the court’s 124 member nations, which include most European countries but not the United States.
The I.C.C. is the world’s only permanent international court with the power to prosecute individuals accused of war crimes, genocide and crimes against humanity. It cannot try defendants in absentia, but its warrants can make international travel difficult.
LinkI saw - puts them right up there with Putin - none value innocent lives.
I just noticed that if the Hamas leader or Putin traveled to the US, we wouldn't arrest them.In that article it says "By applying for the arrest warrants against Israeli and Hamas leaders in the same action, Khan’s office risks attracting criticism that it places a terror organization and an elected government on an equivalent footing." - I have to disagree.
Technically, Hamas is elected (in the same fashion that Putin is "elected"). Also, it is not the "Government" that is being sought, but individuals who are responsible for atrocities.
So, no, I do not agree that the the legitimate government is being put on equal footing with the illegitimate government of Gaza. It is two terrorists, Netanyahu and Sinwar who are being put on equal footing.Do you really think this means anything?
Israel, the United States, as well as russia and many other developed countries are not members of the UCC. This is an organization that believes it should have the right to arrest members of the American military for things that happened in Afghanistan.
It has no enforcement ability. It is a joke.It is a joke to try to hold war criminals accountable?
Would you consider Biden a war criminal if we were attacked again, and he (or rather, his proxies) retaliated: chasing those responsible into every viper pit or cave, no stone unturned, no depth too far...whatever
it took, until they were all eliminated?Yes, if he was doing what Netanyahu is doing and using mass starvation of innocent civilians as a weapon of war or the mass rape and murder of innocent civilians as Hamas did. Any reasonable person would, in my opinion.
The difference, of course, is that no American president, with the possible exception of Donald Trump, would do what Netanyahu is doing to the Palestinian people. Not even Abraham Lincoln with his blockade of the South during the Civil War rose to the level of inhumanity that Netanyahu is exhibiting.Best for me to just walk away from all conversations with you...again!
Take care.
France understands that the ICC is going after terrorists and not nations. It stands with the ICC in condemning Netanyahu, Sinwar, and others as criminals in their war against innocent civilians.
https://www.cnn.com/middleeast/live-new … index.htmlHot Off the Press:
Ireland, Norway and Spain recognise Palestine as independent state: https://youtu.be/T3KgSAvbDkILeave it to Ireland, Norway and Spain to recognize a terrorist state with a charter that states one of its goals as the elimination of an entire race as well as a nation.
I see this and it makes sense why Hitler was able to rise to power in Europe.
I didn't realize Ireland, Norway and Spain were such such antisemite nations.You forgot France and other nations who don't approve of using mass starvation as a weapon of war.
In any case, if what you said were really true, those nations would be supporting terrorist Putin's war on Ukraine."You forgot France and other nations who don't approve of using mass starvation as a weapon of war."
What are you talking about? Massive amounts of aid go into Gaza daily. The United States recently built a pier for the delivery of aid.
"terrorist Putin's war on Ukraine."
What are you talking about? Putin is not a terrorist, he is the leader of one of the largest and most advanced nations in the world. He has an advanced army and nuclear capabilities.
Seriously?
Interestingly enough it appears there are 143 nation members of the United Nations that recognize Palestine as a state with sovereignty. It is a non member observer state in the United Nations.
International recognition of the State of Palestine from Wikipedia as the source. Yeah, yeah I have heard all the arguments about Wikipedia for a source.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internati … _Palestine
They share a list of the nations that recognize them, the date they recognized them, and the diplomatic relations they have with them.How sad.
So many nations acknowledge a terrorist state.
Are you kidding?
Norway has a long history of antisemitism dating back to pre World War II where they had something called the "Jewish Paragraph" where Jews weren't permitted to live or enter Norway.
Spain...are you serious? Their antisemitism goes all the way back to 1066.
Many of Ireland's foundational political figures, including the founders of two of Ireland's three major parties, were noted for their antisemitic speech and behavior.
Yes, they are antisemitic nations.
One person’s ‘terrorist’ is another person’s ‘freedom fighter’: Just over a 100 years ago Britain saw the Irish rebels as terrorists, and executed 15 of them in 1916 – But to the Irish they were ‘freedom fighters’ and through their efforts, and the Irish uprising against British rule, Ireland won its Independence from England.
This short video is a faithful re-creation of true events, of the massacre of innocent Irish people in 2020 by the British during the ‘Irish War of Independence’ from British rule; more than 30 innocent Irish citizens massacred by British troops: https://youtu.be/6-aMjdtVBaI
So yes (like many British people), I do have sympathy with the Palestinians, and support a two-state solution."I do have sympathy with the Palestinians, and support a two-state solution"
What a shame you have sympathy for a terrorist organization.
Do you have any idea what happened in Israel on October 7th?
YOU sympathize with these people?
The terror tunnels, the constant terrorist attacks, etc.
Again, it make sense to me now why Hitler was able to rise to such power in Europe. I think a fine example of a British individual who believed he understood Hitler was a person named Neville Chamberlin. A man with power who was naive and gullible at a dangerous level. He actually believed he had achieved peace with Nazis.
We know how that worked out.
I hope history doesn't repeat itself.I don't have sympathy for a terrorist state. Why? Because Palestine is not a terrorist state, no more of one than the Israeli state is. The fact that you confuse this a people with a terrorist group is sad, but nevertheless misguided.
Having sympathy with the Palestinian peoples, and supporting a two-state solution, should not be confused with “having sympathy for a terrorist organization”
Besides “one man’s ‘terrorist’ is another man’s ‘freedom fighter’, so things are not always as black and white as they may seem!It's a shame to see the rise of antisemitism in Europe.
You'd think they'd learn by now it was a bad thing.
Do you know any of the history of the middle east?
The Palestinians had Gaza. No Jew was permitted within its borders since 2005. They elected a terrorist organization to lead be their government. They knew the vast terror tunnel network was built under schools and hospitals. Being a terrorist is taught to their children in their schools. All they've done for decades is engage in terrorist activities. They have in their charter the destruction of Israel and Jews as a stated goal. In Judea and Samaria (others call it the west bank) they have in their charter that people have killed Jews get financial compensation. The family of a suicide bomber killing Jews will get compensation for life.
A two-state solution will never work with people who are focused on destroying Israel and killing Jews.
This is black and white.As I see it both the Israelis and the Palestinians are guilty of hate. I ask is that a religious thing? Is it a historical thing? Is it a cultural thing? Is it a leadership thing? Or, a combination?
Or, with a leader whose stated purpose is to destroy Palestine and kill Palestinians. Fortunately, most Israelis appear to want to kick Netanyahu out of office (and put him in prison with Trump)
It is a shame to see the rise of antisemitism in Europe, for sure. There, it coincides with the rise in conservativism and the same mindset that led to the election of Hitler in the 1930s.
In America, we have the same right-wing attempting to destroy our democracy, but in the case of Jews, there is a small set of so-called "progressives" who have joined their cause."stated purpose is to destroy Palestine and kill Palestinians"
Yeah...no. There is no such thing as Palestine. So I doubt ever Netanyahu said any such thing.
"the rise in conservativism and the same mindset that led to the election of Hitler in the 1930s."
Wrong!Seems to me you are being inconsistent with your definitions. If Palestine doesn't exist, why do you claim that something that doesn't exist are terrorists?
I can see no daylight between the people who supported Hitler in the 1930s and those who support Trump or Putin or the nationalist leaders in Europe in the 2000s.Sigh!
There is no palestinian nation/state as there has NEVER been a palestinian nation/state. There never has been such a nation as palestine.
These are facts.Then why do you keep saying Palestine is a terrorist state if a Palestine state doesn't exist? Makes no sense.
Are you saying palestine does exist?
I'd like to see you explain that one.Again, you dodged the question. Is Palestine a state who supports terrorism or is Palestine not a state which you also claim?
Yeah, of course I know the history in the Middle East – It’s on Europe’s doorstep so we can’t fail but notice what’s going on there.
The alternative to a two-state solution is for Israel to continue doing what it’s always done: subjugation of the Palestinians e.g. Israel has no intention of integration, just subjugation. So under such circumstances the supressed will always rebel e.g. as the Irish did to the British over 100 years ago, when Britain had Ireland under its subjugation.
And nothing is every black and white.
I totally agree with Tim’s comment were he said “As I see it both the Israelis and the Palestinians are guilty of hate. I ask is that a religious thing? Is it a historical thing? Is it a cultural thing? Is it a leadership thing? Or, a combination?”"subjugation of the Palestinians"
It's painfully obvious you DO NOT know the history of the middle east.
What a shame.
There is NO similarities between Ireland and the Palestinians. Just one big difference among many. Ireland has been a nation/state since before the bronze age.
There has never been a Palestinian nation/state. There was not even a people called palestinians until the 1960s. How can you have a state when you have no history of being a nation/state?
What IS black and white is this. If the Hamas and the Palestinians put down their weapons and stopped attacking Israel there would be peace in the middle east. IF Israel put down it's weapons, there would be an massive bloodshed followed by the anhelation of Jews and Israel.
THIS is reality.Palestinians don't have weapons to put down; only Hamas does. They aren't the same no matter how much to try to make people believe they are.
You need to re-learn your history:
By your logic of saying “How can you have a state when you have no history of being a nation/state?” then the USA shouldn’t exist because it wasn’t a nation before the ‘war of independence; it was part of the British Empire.
FYI: Palestine and Israel has a long complicated history going back millennia:
In 1517, the Ottoman Empire conquered the region, ruling it until the British conquered it in 1917.
The British Mandate of 1918 was for the creation of Israel and Palestine. The Jewish State was formerly created by the UN in 1948, with the intention of the creation of Palestine, but in 1948 (as soon as the British left) Israel declared ‘independence’ and subjugated the Palestinians.
The Palestinian people existed long before the 1964 date you quote - it’s a long complex history.
Yeah, right – the Palestinians put down their weapons, and Israel goes back to what it’s always done since its creation in 1948 – it continues to subjugate the Palestinian people: That’s no recipe for lasting peace. People who are subjugated (like the Irish were) will rebel."How can you have a state when you have no history of being a nation/state?” then the USA shouldn’t exist because it wasn’t a nation before the ‘war of independence"
No, read carefully, the United States became a nation/state when it declared it's independence from England. It had a government, military, designated geographic area and 13 colonies that were it's own.
So, since 1776, the United States HAS been a nation/state
palestine has NEVER been a nation/state.
"The Palestinian people existed long before the 1964 date you quote - it’s a long complex history."
There was no such people known as palestinians until 1964. There has never been a nation/state of palestine.
"subjugate the Palestinian people"
I'm sure somewhere somebody knows what you're talking about. I certainly don't.So before the War of Independence (1775-83) the USA was NOT a nation/state; so by your logic that Palestine cannot become a nation/state because it has never been one, then as the USA was NOT a nation/state before 1775 it to shouldn’t have become one!
Palestine and the Palestinian people HAVE existed long before 1964; as evidenced in detail by Scott (Esoteric)."the USA was NOT a nation/state before 1775 it to shouldn’t have become one!"
You are extremely confused on this topic.
"Palestine and the Palestinian people HAVE existed long before 1964"
There may have been people there, but they didn't refer to themselves as palestinians until after 1964.Sorry to inform you, we are not the ones who are confused.
On the contrary: You claim that the Palestinians have no right to become a nation because they have never been one - Whereas prior to 1775 the USA had never been a nation, so using your logic, what right did the USA have in becoming a nation after 1775? Or is it one rule for you and anther rule for them?
Sorry, but if you do your homework, Palestinians started calling themselves Palestinians long before 1964: The first recorded record dates back to 1898. Again, where is your logic anyway: Prior to the American War of Independence you were not Americans, and often didn’t even refer to yourselves as Americans – prior to 1775 you were colonists of the British Empire."On the contrary: You claim that the Palestinians have no right to become a nation because they have never been one"
You are confused. I claim the palestinians have never had a nation/state. That is true. Nobody is claiming they have no right to become a nation. I have no idea where you come up with this stuff.
" Palestinians started calling themselves Palestinians long before 1964"
There is no proof to support this claim. I've spoken with palestinians. Prior to 1964 the majority considered themselves Jordanians or palestinian arabs. Emphasis on being arabs. There was a place referred to as Palestine, but the people didn't call themselves palestinians.In your post 2 days ago you wrote:
“There has never been a Palestinian nation/state.…. How can you have a state when you have no history of being a nation/state?”
Your statement can be misconstrued to mean that Palestinians have no right to become a nation because they’ve never been one; but as you’ve stated that “Nobody is claiming they have no right to become a nation”; then surly whether Palestine has been a nation or not seems immaterial?
So Palestinians just popped into existence all at once in 1964, and didn’t exist before? Besides, what does it matter e.g. Americans didn’t call themselves Americans before 1775, so did that make the existence of Americans any less valid after 1775?
I will disagree with one thing - It isn't "Israel" that has no intention of integration ... it is Netanyahu and his right-wing thugs that don't.
From well-sourced Wikipedia
"Some researchers argue that the two-state solution has already been implemented because Jordan, which makes up 78% of the former Mandatory Palestine, was originally created as a state for the Arabs.[84][85][86]
In December 2022, support for a two-state solution was 33% among Palestinians, 34% among Israeli Jews, and 60% among Israeli Arabs. 82% of Israeli Jews and 75% of Palestinians believed that the other side would never accept the existence of their independent state.[87]
At the end of October 2023, the two-state solution had the support of 71.9% of Israeli Arabs and 28.6% of Israeli Jews.[88] In that same month, according to Gallup, just 24% of Palestinians supported a two-state solution, a drop from 59% in 2012.[89]"
Given Netanyahu's extreme anti-Palestinian rhetoric, is it any surprise Palestinians (who don't exist apparently)
Also, I wonder how much those poll results would change IF EACH side thought that the other WOULD support a two-state solution.Yep, you are absolutely correct - it's not the people, its Netanyahu.
Here is the big problem. The palestinians have repeatedly rejected a two-state solution when offered one.
Palestinians have repeatedly rejected a two-state solution
n truth for the Palestinians, their only priority is that there not exist a Jewish state called Israel. So for more than 75 years they have not produced a leader or pollical party that called for coexistence with Israel and promising economic prosperity for the Palestinian people, but rather promising only to eradicate Israel. Therefore instead of declaring an independent state in 1948 which would have comprised almost 75% of the land westward from the Jordan to the Mediterranean , they intended to complete the extermination of the Jews. Yes May 15, 1948 was their “Nakba,“ a disaster for the Arabs who had the chance to declare their state and chose to go to war.
During the next 19 years after their Arab brothers in Jordan had conquered what is now the “West Bank” and Egypt the Gaza Strip and in 1999 when Israel’s prime minister Ehud Olmert offered 95% of the West Bank to Yasser Arafat and in 2005 when Israel unilaterally withdrew from the Gaza Strip, the Palestinians refused to declare their independent state. Why? Because while the State of Israel exists, a declaration of an independent Palestinian state is a recognition that the Jewish state has a right to exist, which is an anathema to Palestinians. So it is obvious that the Palestinians are the ones who have never been interested in any form of a two-state solution.
https://www.thetimes-tribune.com/opinio … 585a2.htmlSo what? That doesn't make a two-state solution wrong. Just because you had two terrorists, Netanyahu and Arafat, don't want to live together has nothing to do with what is right.
As to whether there is a Palestinian state, this is the history you refuse to recognize.
Ancient and Medieval Periods
Ancient History: The region known as Palestine has been inhabited by various peoples and civilizations, including the Canaanites, Philistines, Israelites, and others. It was part of different empires, such as the Egyptian, Assyrian, Babylonian, Persian, Greek, Roman, Byzantine, and Ottoman Empires.
Medieval Period: During the medieval period, the area was part of various Islamic caliphates, including the Umayyad, Abbasid, and Fatimid Caliphates. It was later part of the Crusader states, the Ayyubid dynasty, and the Mamluk Sultanate before being incorporated into the Ottoman Empire in the early 16th century.
Ottoman and British Mandate Periods
Ottoman Rule: From the early 16th century until the end of World War I, the region was part of the Ottoman Empire, administered as part of the larger provinces (vilayets) such as the Vilayet of Syria.
British Mandate: After World War I, the League of Nations granted Britain the mandate to govern Palestine. The British Mandate for Palestine (1920-1948) was established, during which time both Jewish and Arab nationalist movements grew.
Mid-20th Century and the Question of Statehood
UN Partition Plan (1947): The United Nations proposed a partition plan that would create separate Jewish and Arab states, with Jerusalem under international control. The plan was accepted by the Jewish leadership but rejected by the Arab leadership.
1948 Arab-Israeli War: Following the declaration of the State of Israel in 1948, neighboring Arab states invaded, leading to the first Arab-Israeli war. The war ended with armistice agreements, and the territory proposed for the Arab state was divided among Israel, Jordan (which annexed the West Bank), and Egypt (which administered the Gaza Strip).
Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO): The PLO was founded in 1964 with the goal of creating an independent Palestinian state. It became the recognized representative of the Palestinian people.
Late 20th Century to Present
1967 Six-Day War: Israel captured the West Bank, Gaza Strip, and East Jerusalem during the Six-Day War. These territories have been the focus of subsequent peace negotiations.
Palestinian Authority (PA): Established as part of the Oslo Accords (1993-1995), the PA was granted limited self-governance in parts of the West Bank and Gaza Strip.
Declaration of Independence (1988): The Palestine National Council declared the establishment of the State of Palestine in 1988 (just like America did), which has been recognized by many countries and international organizations. However, this state lacks full control over its territory and does not have full international recognition or sovereignty.
Current Status
International Recognition: As of now, the State of Palestine is recognized by over 130 UN member states and has non-member observer status in the United Nations.
Territorial Control: The Palestinian territories are divided into the West Bank, governed partially by the PA and under Israeli military occupation, and Gaza Strip, governed by Hamas since 2007 and under Israeli blockade.
SO YES, there is a Palestinian state no matter how much you chose to deny it.
BTW - It is Netanyahu who forbids Israelis from entering Gaza.The PLO was founded in 1964 with the goal of creating an independent Palestinian state.
Declaration of Independence (1988): The Palestine National Council declared the establishment of the State of Palestine in 1988 (just like America did), which has been recognized by many countries and international organizations.There has been a two state solution offered many times.
The palestinians/Arabs have rejected it each and every time.
That is a fact.
"Israel’s prime minister Ehud Olmert offered 95% of the West Bank to Yasser Arafat and in 2005 when Israel unilaterally withdrew from the Gaza Strip, the Palestinians refused to declare their independent state. Why? Because while the State of Israel exists, a declaration of an independent Palestinian state is a recognition that the Jewish state has a right to exist, which is an anathema to Palestinians. So it is obvious that the Palestinians are the ones who have never been interested in any form of a two-state solution."You said "many" times but only listed the one we already talked about. What are the others, three or four will do.
Only the once did the Palestinians turn down the offer, and that was a long time ago; cite other examples.
Do your homework. The palestinians have been offered their own state on five different occasions.
"5 times in the past Palestine rejected offer to have its own state."
https://africachinapresscentre.org/2023 … existence/Arthur, I am afraid he got us. I did some fact checking on his unfamiliar source. That said, not all of them count toward his claim that Palestine (which doesn't exist) rejected an Israeli offer.
The first two happened before Israel declared itself a state.
The third one was the Arab League doing the rejecting.
The fourth one we know about
The fifth one, I don't remember, but did apparently happen.
So, of the five, only two were rejected by Palestinian (which doesn't exist) leadership.
BTW, it seem Mike got his "no Palestine" idea from Nick Ottens in a commentary exchange from the attached article. He states in part "People who argue from the “Palestinian side of things” typically seem to think that Israel was somehow planted in the middle of an existing Palestinian State. There never was a Palestinian state. There wasn’t even a Palestinian people before the second half of the twentieth century."
https://atlanticsentinel.com/2009/12/th … -rejected/
As to Nick and Mike's obsession that there in no Palestine, the Jews seem to disagree with them. From the Jewish Virtual Library -
"Mahmoud Abbas is a Palestinian political leader, chairman of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), and President of the Palestinian Authority.
Abbas, also known as Abu Mazen, was born in Safed on March 26, 1935. He left Palestine for Syria as a refugee from the Israeli War of Independence in 1948 and later worked as an elementary teacher."
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/mahmoud-abbas
It does not appear that Abbas is a terrorist in the Arafat-Netanyahu-Hamas form, but he does hold radical ideas like "Though often referred to as a moderate, Abbas has made numerous radical statements, for example, claiming that the Nazis killed "only a few hundred thousand Jews," not six million. On April 30, 2018, he gave a speech declaring the Holocaust was not caused by anti-Semitism but by the “social behavior” of the Jews, including money-lending.""no Palestine" idea from Nick Ottens"
WRONG. There are many, many people who can look at the facts and comprehend there is no palestinian state. Read this article by Dominic Green of the Washington Examiner. It is not an idea promoted or shared by just one person but a view held by thousands of people.
"There never was a Palestinian state. There never was a Palestinian people, either. The Palestinians are a modern invention, summoned into being by Soviet and Arab rejectionists and now sustained by Islamists and Western leftists. The Palestinians are the twisted mirror image of Zionism, the most successful of all postcolonial liberation movements. This is why the only notable Palestinians are modern terrorists and their apologists: Hitler’s chum Haj Amin al Husseini, the Soviet pawns Yasser Arafat and Mahmoud Abbas, various airplane hijackers and suicide bombers, the academic fraudster Edward Said, the loony leftie Rep. Rashida Tlaib (D-MI), and now the psychotic criminals who lead Hamas."
The Palestinians deny that Jews have individual rights, too. Under the otherwise lawless Palestinian Authority, selling a house to a Jew is a capital crime. The same law is on the books in another American-funded, Jew-free farce of a state, Jordan. Regardless of the fact that more than a fifth of Israeli citizens are Arab, the leaders of all Palestinian factions insist that no Jews will live in a future Palestinian state. These are your tax dollars at work.
"The Palestinians do, however, want to kill Jews and destroy the Jewish state. They have devoted all their ingenuity to this effort. Under the tutelage of Hamas, the young scholars of Gaza have lately made considerable progress, Palestinian-style: a circular path of self-destruction. Yet again, they have proved that they want to settle their dispute with the Jews by mass murder. Yet again, they deserve to lose."
As is traditional, the Biden administration now wants not just to spare the Palestinians from the consequences of their own depravity but also to reward them. The administration is talking up the “two-state solution” as though subsidizing the creation of yet another Islamist basket case is in the American interest. This is stupid, and it’s bound to fail, but at least it’s consistent.
The most the Palestinians can get now is local autonomy under tight Israeli control in Judea and Samaria and even tighter control in Gaza, perhaps under Israeli-Gulf Arab-Egyptian rule. This is more than the Palestinians deserve but less than they desire, so they will continue their war. The least the United States can do is to stop funding and encouraging the dysfunctional state of the Palestinians. That’s the bad news. The good news is, there will be no Palestinian state."
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/maga … ian-state/
IF the palestinians truly wanted their own state, they have had multiple opportunities to have one but have walked away from the negotiating table each and every time.
What have the palestinians an hamas ever done to promote peace with Israel? NOTHING, they've done nothing.
Beat me to it. Netanyahu further isolates innocent Jews from the rest of the world by starving another innocent population in what appears to be his inept pursuit of the total destruction of everything Palestinian. He needs to go and be replaced by a real Israeli leader who actually cares about saving Israel and not his own skin.
https://www.cnn.com/middleeast/live-new … index.html
"Protesters clashed with police in Tel Aviv Saturday night, following a day of rallies calling for a ceasefire and the return of hostages. One video showed horse-mounted police and water cannons trying to clear demonstrators."
"At least 10 people, including children, died in northern Gaza on Saturday after a drone strike hit a school they were sheltering in, health workers said. Fighting continues across Gaza, including in areas Israel previously said it controlled."
1 - Drones are precision weapons so the IDF knew exactly what it was doing.
2 - The US had a bad habit in the Vietnam War of clearing an area and then leaving it for the Viet Cong to return. You would have thought the IDF would have learned from our mistakes. Guess not.
3. Instead of spending money on 2,000 pound bombs whose purpose is to terrorize, it would be better spent on hiring mercenaries to flesh out the Israeli army and hold the territory they captured. I suspect they could form a brigade or two of American/Canadian Jews willing to help save Israel from Hamas.
https://www.cnn.com/middleeast/live-new … ndex.html.Dozens of people were killed in Rafah late Sunday after an Israeli airstrike on an area where displaced civilians were sheltering in tents and sparked a fire that tore across the camp, local officials said.
Images showed the area engulfed in flames as screaming Palestinians fled for safety, with some video shared on social media showing disturbing images including severely burned corpses and a man holding what appears to be the headless body of a small child.
The strike drew condemnation from world leaders just days after the United Nations' top court ordered Israel to halt its offensive on the southern Gaza city where more than a million had sought refuge.
Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu called an Israeli strike that killed at least 45 Palestinians over the weekend a “tragic mistake” and called for an investigation into the civilian deaths Monday.
The Israeli strike on the Tal al-Sultan neighborhood of Rafah targeted a humanitarian zone filled with tents, where Israel’s military previously instructed displaced Palestinians to shelter from the ongoing war against militant group Hamas, the Gaza Health Ministry said. The Israeli military claimed the strike killed two senior Hamas leaders.
“Despite our utmost efforts not to harm innocent civilians, last night, there was a tragic mistake,” Netanyahu said Monday in an address to Israel’s parliament. “We are investigating the incident and will obtain a conclusion, because this is our policy.”
Stop the genocide!At least Netanyahu himself relented a tiny bit and admitted the attack was a mistake, tragic or otherwise. Before, his underlings did if for him. But in the end, that is as helpful as "our prayers and thoughts" go out to victims of gun violence in America while those same people sit around with the thumbs you know where.
Human Rights Watch Co-Founder Says Israel Is 'Engaged In Genocide' Of Palestinians
Human Rights Watch co-founder Aryeh Neier, a German-born Jewish man who survived the Holocaust, says he has been “persuaded” in recent months that Israel is “engaged in genocide against Palestinians” and that conflating antisemitism with criticism of Israel is ludicrous.
“I thought Israel had a right to retaliate against Hamas, and I thought Israel had a right to try to incapacitate Hamas so that it would never be able to do anything like that again,” Neier told CNN’s Fareed Zakaria about the Israel-Gaza conflict in an extensive interview Sunday.
“I thought Israel had a right to retaliate against Hamas, and I thought Israel had a right to try to incapacitate Hamas so that it would never be able to do anything like that again,” Neier told CNN’s Fareed Zakaria about the Israel-Gaza conflict in an extensive interview Sunday.
“But I was disturbed by some of the actions of Israel, by the use of very large weapons, 2,000-pound bombs, which are utterly inappropriate in a crowded urban area,” he continued, adding that these bombs “can kill somebody two football fields away.”
Neier told Zakaria that “even though Israel went far overboard,” he still wasn’t sure the term “genocide” applied. The 87-year-old human rights icon, who previously led the American Civil Liberties Union, first chronicled his change of mind in the New York Review of Books.
“I am now persuaded that Israel is engaged in genocide against Palestinians in Gaza. What has changed my mind was that over a period of time uh Israel has obstructed the delivery of humanitarian assistance to uh Gaza and those who have been most severely victimized are not the members of Hamas men with guns ordinarily find a way to uh to get food and to get fed but it is young children who are most severely damaged by malnutrition and who will either starve to death or if they survive uh they will be diminished uh for the rest of their lives diminished physically and psychologically by the severe malnutrition they are enduring as children and I thought that severemobstruction of the delivery of humanitarian assistance amounted to genocide."
"At this moment uh there are settlers in the West Bank area who are interrupting trucks taking humanitarian assistance into to Gaza. They are attacking the truck drivers, spilling the contents of trucks carrying humanitarian aid. The Israeli Defense Forces have not interven in order to prevent the settlers from engaging in sabotage of that sort, in delivering humanitarian assistance. The Israeli Defense Forces have aided the settlers. And a very large number of Palestinians in the West Bank have been killed in the past few months, often with the Israel Defense Forces either standing by or directly participating in attacks on Palestinians."
https://www.cnn.com/videos/world/2024/0 … israel.cnnNetanyahu won’t agree to hostage release deal unless it polls well for him, Israeli families say they were told
TEL AVIV — Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu will not agree to end the war in Gaza in exchange for the release of hostages unless opinion polls show it is politically advantageous for him, a top Israeli security official told the families of those held captive, a person in the closed-door meeting and an advocacy group said Friday.
The comments by Netanyahu’s national security adviser Tzachi Hanegbi, first made public by Israel’s Channel 12 broadcaster, sent shock waves through the hostage family community nearly eight months after their loved ones were kidnapped by Hamas during the Oct. 7 attack.
“The Israeli government made a conscious and deliberate decision to sacrifice the hostages,” the Hostage Family Forum said in a statement Friday. “The hostages, and the entire State of Israel, have been taken captive by those who chose political interests over their national and governmental duty.”
Hanegbi met with relatives of the hostages at the Defense Ministry in Tel Aviv on Thursday afternoon. Among the attendees was Gil Dickman, whose 40-year-old cousin, Carmel Gat, is among the 125 hostages still being held in Gaza.
Hanegbi "told us: ‘We understand that the only way to bring all the hostages back is through a deal that will bring an end to the war.’ And as he sees it, the Israeli government is not going to put an end to the war right now,” Dickman told NBC News in an interview Friday.
“He said the only way to make Netanyahu do this is to make him understand that it’s going to be politically good for him, that if he sees polls that say that the Israeli public wants to see the hostages home more than it wants the continuation of the war, then he will make a deal that will bring all the hostages home,” he added. “We were shocked by this.”
In a statement released by the prime minister’s office, Hanegbi said he would not comment publicly on what was said in a closed-door meeting.
Dickman said Hanegbi told the families of the hostages he believed it was possible that the first stage of a deal could be agreed upon, which would see the release of some hostages in exchange for a cease-fire deal lasting several weeks.
But, he said, Hanegbi also warned that once the current offensive in Gaza’s southernmost city of Rafah is completed, Israel would lose the ability to pressure Hamas, and that public attention would shift away from the enclave and the hostages and toward a potential conflict with Hezbollah in southern Lebanon.
“And so I said to [Hanegbi]: ‘That means we’re lost.’ And he replied: Yes, that’s correct,’” Dickman said.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/isra … rcna154841Israel rescues four hostages at the cost of, reportedly, 235 dead and 400 injured. Unsaid is how many of those dead and injured were Hamas and how many were innocents. I am suspending judgement on why the market was hit where most of the women and children were killed until more details come out.
The question is, was the market initially targeted to kill civilians or was it necessary to effect the rescue? Or, was it an errant rocket?
One can argue that the Palestinian people in the area certain knew the hostages were there. One can also argue that it was certain Palestinians who gave up the locations.
In any case, this is clearly different than the indiscriminate terror bombing Netanyahu is conducting or the wholesale starvation campaign he is waging against the whole people.
https://www.cnn.com/middleeast/live-new … index.htmlI recently watched the footage of the Israeli soldiers rescuing their hostages.
They were very professional. They did this in a densely populated urban area. This is THE most difficult type of fighting for any soldier. Their communication and battlefield leadership was quite impressive.
To survive in this type of environment takes a lot of skill and determination.
They took fire during the entire operation.
Their military and soldiers are obviously well-trained and very experienced.The report I heard said similar things except taking fire. He said that the Israeli forces infiltrated disguised as Palestinians, recovered the hostages, and then came under fire as they tried to exfiltrate.
If your footage shows them coming under fire on the approach, then that is better that my source reading intel messages.
Hamas leader says civilian casualties are NECESSARY SACRIFICES
I am sure he takes that position, but Netanyahu shouldn't. Each operation and strike should be structured to minimize civilian casualties or he is as much of an animal as Sinwar. (an appropriate name, don't you think? Sin War.)
https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/11/middleea … index.htmlIs there hard evidence - not opinion, not political posturing, not exaggeration and not assumptions - that he is NOT trying hard to minimize civilian casualties?
I simply use my eyes, ears, and brain to see the obvious. Sort of like Trump's guilt. We all knew he would be found guilty.
And of course your eyes ears and brain understand all that is going on on the other side of the world.
Somehow I don't think so.Most people are able to do that. Some, apparently, are not.
Got it. You were there, with those soldiers as they rescued 4 hostages and then fought their way back out. It's how you know the conditions and what they are up against - to be alongside them instead of a world away.
Well, it seems Hamas has accepted President Biden's ceasefire plan. I heard this morning that Netanyahu's office sent a message that he is on-board.
Hope it is not a false alarm.This the Headline:
Hamas gambled on the suffering of civilians in Gaza. Netanyahu played right into it
This is the Analysis
https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/11/middleea … index.html
And as a result, most of the world is against Israel and antisemitism got a big boost.Hamas intentionally "sacrificed" his own people for political gain, and the world is stupid enough to swallow it. Doesn't say much for the rest of the world, does it?
The Netanyahu Effect - Israeli settlers attack Palestinian farmers and foreign activists in the West Bank
https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/23/world/vi … ldn-digvidNethanyahu tries to remain in power and is ##S kissing the extreme right wing.
There is no excuse for the illegal Jewish settlements in the West Bank. And these aggressive Israeli settlers should be prosecuted. Zero tolerance.
But this is a completely different story than the Gaza Strip. As Hamas is a terror organization with the goal to exterminate all Jews between the Sea and the river Jordan...with no problems sacrificing their own people and using them as human shields.Absolutely! Those illegal settlements are the tender for all that is happening today in the rest of Israel and Gaza. Without them, the Hamas would have been a lot less successful in recruiting and carrying out their terrorism.
Well. Hamas was elected in 2006. 18 years ago. Since that time, no opposition was allowed. And the people were day in day out indoctrinated. So you have youngsters who are 18 now and who have been fed the religious craziness of extreme Islam since childhood.
It's true that the illegal settlements are a good excuse for a hatred campaign. And Israel should have been much stricter. But if it was not this excuse it would be another.
And as you look at the news today, you see so many antisemitism fed by old conspiracy theories. (like Jews ruling the banks and media etc.)
The students on universities are completely misguided. And frankly I can't understand how they can support Hamas and at the same time wave with the rainbow flag...
I think Netanyahu has found a way to deflect from his Gaza problems - start a regional war.
First he bombs Lebanon to kill a Hezbollah leader and then attacks in the heart of IRAN to kill a Hamas leader. Now, don't get me wrong, as soon as anyone joins either of those two terrorist organizations, they have signed their own death warrant - and rightly so.
Now, I am not sure how you kill a Hezbollah leader without attacking inside of Lebanon, but maybe they could have tried a more Mission Impossible scenario other than blowing him and others up.
Iran is a different story altogether because the stakes are so much higher (which Bibi may be counting on). If they could have found the guy there, maybe they could have found him somewhere else and take him out there. As it is, Israel best get their Iron Dome ready, because Iran should be knocking at their door soon with missiles.
https://www.cnn.com/world/live-news/ham … index.htmlThis headline is why Israel is losing the respect of the world -
"Israeli minister says it may be ‘moral’ to starve 2 million Gazans, but ‘no one in the world would let us’"
If that is true, then I guess it was "moral" for Hitler or Stalin to starve millions of Jews to.
https://www.cnn.com/2024/08/06/middleea … index.htmlWant ton know why Biden can't get a peace deal done in Gaza to release the hostages? Here is a headline for you;
"Netanyahu derailed a potential Gaza hostage deal in July, Israeli newspaper reports"
I think it is fair to say those six hostageshttps://www.cnn.com/2024/09/04/middleeast/netanyahu-derailed-hostage-deal-in-july-intl/index.html recently killed are on Netanyahu's head.Israel will go down in the annals of espionage history with their attack on the terrorists Hezbollah. You see, Israel forced Hezbollah to get rid of their Smartphones for communications and move to pagers for secure communications, Israel then managed to pack 3,000 or so of these pagers with explosive. On Monday, they set them off killing nine and injuring thousands of terrorists (and one child who ended up with a terrorists pager).
Now, Hezbollah has no good form of communication.
https://www.cnn.com/world/live-news/leb … index.htmlIt is becoming very clear that Netanyahu does not want the Israeli hostages back because he is doing everything in his power to scuttle any hopes of a ceasefire with Hamas. While what he is doing to Hezbollah is warranted, the timing shows his utter disregard for Israeli lives.
https://www.cnn.com/world/live-news/leb … index.htmlhttps://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/isra … rcna178617
Arrests, a gag order and a leak that could've harmed hostage talks: Gaza intel scandal sends shockwaves across Israel
Arrests. Classified documents. And suspected leaks that may have harmed efforts to free hostages held by Hamas in order, critics say, to give Benjamin Netanyahu public cover for failing to agree to a cease-fire deal. The Israeli prime minister was engulfed in scandal Monday over a case involving one of his aides that has sent shockwaves across the country.
The firestorm — brought into public view when an Israeli court loosened a gag order Sunday night — has enraged Netanyahu's political opponents and hostage families. Netanyahu has denied any wrongdoing and distanced himself from the case, but critics have alleged that the Israeli leader put hostages' lives and national security at risk to buttress his hardline position in stalled cease-fire talks by leaking Gaza documents to friendly media outlets.I'll hold my thoughts until more is known, but Israel says they won't withdraw from Lebanon by the ceasefire deadline. They claim (no, I don't necessarily believe them anymore) that Lebanon has not lived up to its end by moving into former Hezbollah territory fast enough.
With its first test, the Trump administration is trying to negotiate a 30-day extension to the ceasefire.
https://www.cnn.com/2025/01/24/middleea … index.htmlDidn't I tell you Netanyahu was nuts? He Probably just murdered hundreds to thousands of his own people, and for what?
https://www.cnn.com/world/live-news/isr … 5-hnk-intlPrime Minister Netanyahu:
"Moments ago, Israel launched Operation Rising Lion, a targeted military operation to roll back the Iranian threat to Israel's very survival.
This operation will continue for as many days as it takes to remove this threat.". Where have we heard that language before?
And Iran says...
"The world will soon witness the true lions of the Middle East."
This is not good. Trump at the helm with incompetence all around him. Really makes you wonder if Netanyahu was just waiting to see if Trump won the election so that he could make this move.What a fine mess you have gotten us into Ollie. Just think, if Trump had not stupidly ended the Iran nuclear deal in his first term, we wouldn't be on the brink of being dragged into a Middle East war today.
This is totally Trump's fault.
https://www.cnn.com/world/live-news/isr … 5-hnk-intl
And before you start defending him, please start out each attack with "I realize I am a hypocrite for blaming Biden for anything that went wrong in the world, but ..."Trump's killing of the Iran nuclear deal was probably one of his biggest failures. Of course, like always, he was promising a "better" deal .... Now look what we've got.
I want to point out that the war that started last night is between Israel and Iran, not directly the U.S. President Trump has been very clear that the U.S. is not at war with Iran. While the U.S. certainly has interests in the region, it’s important to keep the facts straight when assigning blame.
During his term, Trump focused on stopping Iran’s nuclear ambitions and regional aggression. He has offered peace talks and continues to do so today. Trump has consistently stated that Iran cannot have a nuclear weapon, a stance I support for many reasons. The conflict we see now is rooted in decades of complex regional tensions, Iranian violations of the original deal, and actions by multiple parties, including Israel’s recent strikes on Iranian targets.
Blaming Trump alone for this current conflict oversimplifies a very complicated situation. The Biden administration inherited a delicate balance, and how they manage it now matters just as much. It’s misleading to say this war is “totally Trump’s fault” when the clash is between Israel and Iran, with many layers of history and ongoing events.
So, let’s keep it factual from the beginning to the end: Trump’s withdrawal from the deal was part of a broader strategy, but the current conflict involves many actors and long-standing issues that go far beyond one decision or one person.And I need t point out if Trump hadn't killed the Iran Nuclear Deal, Israel wouldn't have felt it needed to attack last night.
Yep, and where are all those "deals' he promised to help mitigate the Tariff Crisis he has caused?
Your bait is laughable--- This context is very clear.
"What a fine mess you have gotten us into Ollie. Just think, if Trump had not stupidly ended the Iran nuclear deal in his first term, we wouldn't be on the brink of being dragged into a Middle East war today.
This is totally Trump's fault." ECO
This is unsubstantiated misinformation. Time to call it what it is, folks.Well we all know it's a fact that Trump ended the Iran nuclear deal in 2018 the one that he's trying to get back now.
And...Netanyahu has stated that Israel is bombing Iran due to concerns about its nuclear capabilities.... Yes, so here we are."Well we all know it's a fact that Trump ended the Iran nuclear deal in 2018 the one that he's trying to get back now." Yes, this is a fact.
"And...Netanyahu has stated that Israel is bombing Iran due to concerns about its nuclear capabilities.... Yes, so here we are." Fact
"This is totally Trump's fault."ECO" False
The statemen present a misleading narrative. He certainly could have just stated it was his view. But his context reads that he is attempting to say his words are factual. He does this frequently, and I, for one, am going to point out his misinformation. Over the past hours, we have had several statements from Trump.What other conclusion can be made? Based on the Netanyahu statement for the purpose of Israel's attack on Iran last night? Iran was actually complying with the nuclear deal before Trump 86'd it. Since that time they have taken the opportunity to significantly build up their nuclear capabilities... To the point that Israel now feels threatened. I don't know, maybe the deal had weaknesses? But there's no arguing that it was working.
How is it misleading?? There is a very straight, uncomplicated line from Trump's actions to Israel's actions.
1. FACT: Trump killed the Iran Nuclear Deal....
2. FACT: Trump didn't replace it with anything better as he had promised.
3. FACT: Iran had stopped processing fuel for weapons purposes before Trump screwed up.
4. FACT: Iran started processing fuel for weapons purposes after Trump screwed up.
5. FACT: Iran is now on the verge of building nuclear bombs.
6. FACT: Israel felt very, very threatened, understandably so.
7. FACT: Israel conducted a PREEMPTIVE STRIKE on Iran to protect itself.
It cannot be any clearer than that. Only those trying to protect Trump will try to muddy those FACTS.
The fact that Israel probably did the right thing given the no-win position Trump left them in, I still stick with my original comment that Netanyahu is crazy (and a war criminal - him, not the nation).
How long before the first American soldier is killed?That is so Cool.
"Israel's spy agency shows how they attacked Iran from within"
I wonder if Israel and Ukraine had been working together on this strategy, they are almost identical.
https://www.cnn.com/2025/06/13/world/vi … ran-digvidCheck this out, Netanyahu basically tells Trump to pi$$ off, ignoring his request to stand down before an unprovoked attack on Iran. No one is taking Trump seriously but are using him to facilitate their own objectives, that regards Putin and the Ukraine as well. The great deal maker is merely a dupe for the most desperate of tyrants.
Putin is playing for a fool. So is Netanyahu as is Xi Jinping. Even Iran's Supreme Leader was before he started ducking. And Trump is playing his base for fools.
If this were Biden's Director of National Intelligence, it would be believable. But, since this is Tusli Gabbard and Trump NI we are talking about, no wonder Netanyahu didn't believe our assessment that Iran was years away from having a bomb.
https://www.cnn.com/2025/06/17/politics … years-awayBeen watching some news - it seems the betting is Trump is going to drag America into the Iran - Israel war,
What do you think what will happen if Trump does send in the B-2 or troops?"The US may be headed into another Middle East war – and no one is talking about how it ends"
Do you think he will do it?
https://www.cnn.com/2025/06/18/politics … -conflictsTrump speaks of forcing Iran to accept terms of unconditional surrender when a war has not been formally declared through Congress? Does congress have any control over this man using tax money outside prescriptions established by Congress. Is congress just going to sit there and do nothing?
You might want to look up something called the "War Powers Act."
NO, not as long as Republicans remain in control. They are quite content, it seems, to allow Trump to remain a dictator.
Somebody in one of the forums said Trump's bombing of Iran made them feel more safe. They are in the distinct minority.
* 30% of Rs, 60% of Is, and 82%of Ds say his bombing makes America LESS safe!"Four-year-old girl dies of hunger in Gaza as Israel throttles food supply"
Please don't tell me that Netanyahu and any Israeli who supports him aren't committing GENOCIDE
https://www.cnn.com/2025/07/20/middleea … risis-intlIf this isn't Netanyahu sponsored genocide, what is?
https://www.cnn.com/world/live-news/gaz … 24-25-intlThis is what war looks like, ugly, brutal, and tragically predictable, especially when it follows an act of genocide. When your people are massacred, your families torn apart, and hostages taken by those who attacked like animals, the response is not just emotional—it’s resolute. Yes, this is war, and one side appears absolutely determined to ensure their people are never slaughtered like that again. They are done with those who have waged war for over 75 years.
Not sure who has been waging War for over 75 years when half of the population of Gaza is under 18 currently.... Does it make folks feel comfortable with the genocide being prosecuted upon Palestinians when they can stereotype and about an entire group of people?. These people are being killed when they line up for food.... The degree to which Netanyahu has taken this conflict is sickening. Against the wishes of Israelis actually... This is inhumane And there is absolutely no justification for this...NONE.
As I said, it’s all very sad. You can try to weigh one image against another or consider the motives behind a tragedy—but it’s important to look at both sides. I don’t think most liberals take that into account; they often focus on just one narrative. I’ll admit, I do try to see both perspectives. Still, that photo stays with me—it’s hard to shake. I know it to be real. I’m not sure what you posted is real or just Hamas propaganda, but there’s a difference, and it matters.
Most humans with any sense of morality or empathy find netanyahu's actions against the Palestinians reprehensible. There is no "other side," there is no justification for genocide. The man is a monster.
That’s your opinion, and you’re absolutely entitled to it — but you don’t have the right to speak on behalf of everyone else. That’s a clear tell: when something doesn’t align with your narrative, you try to drag others into it to give your view more weight. Speak for yourself.
Morality demands that we don’t turn a blind eye to what’s been done to the Jews of Israel, and the people of Gaza. This is a war. So tell me plainly: do you condemn Hamas, or only Netanyahu?"So tell me plainly: do you condemn Hamas, or only Netanyahu?"
That can't be a serious question...Willowarbor's opinion is shared by millions of people worldwide. Overall more people think it is genocide than think it is not.
Region / Group Believe Genocide (%) Disagree (%) Undecided
United States ~34–35% ~36% ~29%
Canada 49% 21% 30%
UK 45% overall (~82% among opponents) — —
Western Europe 33–49% 17–26% 25% - 50%
Ireland ~79% ~21% —
Middle East scholars 34% (genocide) + 41% (akin) — —Your comment implies you believe there "is an other side to genocide".
Also, where do you get the right to say Willowarbor is speaking "on behalf of everyone else."? Especially when 1) that is not what she said and 2) I have posted proof that she is correct in speaking for "most" (that is the word she used) people,
There is always another side of the story. What makes so many people angry is that those that condemn Israel do not condemn Hamas. I guess it is okay to rape women and take babies as hostages as long as you represent Palestine?
Most of the river to the sea crowd, many of the residents of the middle east including that country that is harboring the Hamas leadership, many of the Democrats in Congress including Omar and the members of her group. Need I go on? If you want a link just put that question into your search engine and they will come up with hundreds of elected Democrats that did not condemn Hamas even after they raped Israeli women and kidnapped their children.
The maga folks are very obtuse. They often fail to understand that one can support the people of Palestine without supporting Hamas. The Maga individual, generally seems to have a problem holding two ideas in their head at the same time. They are a people who see things as black and white.
So again I have to ask why the Democrats and those "river to the sea" types like like Mahmoud Khalil support Palestine without denouncing Hamas? It is not all Magas fault that there is a war in the mideast, despite that rather bizarre claim.
Are you really attempting to say that all Democrats support hamas? And as far as your last statement.. no clue how that has anything to do with the subject matter. Khalil represents one person.. himself
No, but apparantly you do not know how many do not condemn Hamas. I doubt you will want to find out but here is a link.
https://www.newsweek.com/full-list-demo … es-1840592 If you do not want to read that source there are plenty of others like Al Jazeera.
As far as that last statement, why do you think MAGA has anything to do with that? Do you not realize that the war started while Biden was the president of the US?Sorry, what's being offered is a lot of stereotypes and a lot of generalizations..."some" people have the right to believe whatever they want to believe and that's really not my concern. Certainly doesn't mean they represent me or anyone else.
If I may interject, I’ve mentioned before, and I feel it’s worth repeating, that it’s generally not appropriate to speak on behalf of others. I’ve noticed you often use the term “MAGA”, would you agree? It seems to be applied rather broadly at times in the context of blanketing a group.
Do you mean in the same way the "Democrats" or "the "liberals" are used ??
In my view, many Democrats lack the mindset needed to fully grasp the deep-rooted and long-standing nature of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. They tend to address the situation in fragments, focusing on isolated incidents rather than understanding the broader context. This piecemeal approach overlooks the complex history and underlying causes that have led to the brutal and all-out war we’re witnessing today.
Again, in my view, this kind of thinking shows a short-sighted and overly emotional response to a deeply complicated issue, one that requires historical understanding, strategic thinking, and a recognition of the repeated failures of peace efforts. Without that, their reactions often do more to inflame opinions than to contribute to real solutions.
The Palestinians have been offered versions of a two-state solution multiple times over the decades, and several major offers were either rejected outright, ignored, or accepted with conditions that ultimately stalled progress.
In 1937, the British Peel Commission proposed partitioning the British Mandate of Palestine into separate Jewish and Arab states. The Palestinian leadership rejected this proposal, opposing any division of the land. A decade later, in 1947, the United Nations passed Resolution 181, known as the UN Partition Plan, which would have created both a Jewish state and an Arab state, with Jerusalem under international control. Jewish leaders accepted the plan, but Palestinian and broader Arab leadership rejected it, leading to war.
Fast forward to 2000, during the Camp David Summit, Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak, with U.S. President Bill Clinton’s support, offered a Palestinian state on approximately 92% of the West Bank and all of Gaza, with East Jerusalem as its capital. Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat rejected the offer without making a counterproposal. Clinton and several officials later blamed Arafat for the failure. In 2001, the Taba Talks followed, where Israel made an even more generous offer, including up to 97% of the West Bank and land swaps. The negotiations made progress, but they ultimately collapsed due to Israeli elections and the violence of the Second Intifada. No final agreement was reached.
In 2008, Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert offered Mahmoud Abbas a Palestinian state with 93% of the West Bank, all of Gaza, additional land swaps, and a shared Jerusalem. Abbas did not accept the offer and later said he couldn’t give an answer on the spot. In 2014, U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry attempted to restart talks with a new peace framework. However, discussions again fell apart. Palestinians objected to Israeli conditions and continued settlement activity, and no formal two-state offer was finalized.
In summary, Palestinian leadership has rejected or walked away from at least five major two-state solution proposals since the 1930s. Their refusals are often cited as a central reason the conflict has persisted. Critics argue that these repeated missed opportunities have only prolonged suffering for both Palestinians and Israelis."In my view, many Democrats lack the mindset needed to fully grasp the deep-rooted and long-standing nature of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict."
Or maybe Democrats just have some sense of humanity? Maybe a gene that missed the maga? Some people are just cool with genocide... Go figure???"In my view, many Democrats lack the mindset needed to fully grasp the deep-rooted and long-standing nature of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict." Shar
Or maybe Democrats just have some sense of humanity? Maybe a gene that missed the maga? Willow
That’s a strong emotional response, as I expected. But it sidesteps the actual point being debated. Recognizing the deep-rooted complexity of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict doesn’t mean lacking humanity; it means acknowledging history, context, and repeated patterns of aggression, failed negotiations, and missed peace opportunities. Dismissing concern for Israeli security or decades of provocation as a lack of compassion is unfair and overly simplistic.
Humanity should be applied to all sides. Condemning terrorism, protecting civilians, and understanding why peace efforts have failed time and again requires more than a reaction; it requires critical thinking, not partisan jabs.
Reducing the argument to a matter of "having a gene" or not being part of "MAGA" avoids serious discussion and turns a complex geopolitical issue into a political insult. That doesn’t help anyone, not Palestinians, not Israelis, and not Americans trying to make sense of it all.
Side note, regarding the MAGA jab. In my view, what I’ve observed is that those who lean right on this forum generally aim to keep the conversation civil and respectful, avoiding insults and labels. In contrast, some individuals on the left seem more inclined to use name-calling and inflammatory remarks, often trying to provoke rather than engage in thoughtful dialogue. What does that say about some on the left? It suggests that, for some, emotion and personal attacks are taking the place of reasoned discussion, something that does little to foster understanding or mutual respect.
Anyone who takes a moment to observe and read the comments posted here can clearly see the truth in what I’ve just shared.
Please get your condemnation correct - People blame Netanyahu, NOT Israel. It is Netanyahu (and Hamas) who is the monster, not the Israelis
Okay, if you want to condemn Netanyahu that is fine. That is not what I hear from the Democrats in congress nor from the protests at the universities. They say "Death to Israel" not death to Netenyahu.
And they somehow represent the thoughts or views of all Democrats? How does that work?
How many Democrats in the US congress refused to condemn Hamas? Those are the people you voted to represent your views.
Really? My 2 Senators and my representative in the house don't support Hamas.... Do you understand how American government works?
Was that last question serious or are you just trying to be a smart a**? I assume if you are writing on this subject you are intelligent enough to understand representative government, and you can do the same. I will not assume just because you are a Democrat that you want to fly the Mexican flag and loot some store in Los Angeles, and you should also understand that because someone is conservative it does not mean they support every action of any politician that labels him or herself conservative.
The other side of the coin is that the Palestinians have instigated numerous wars against Israel over the years. Even if Hamas were eliminated, another extremist group would emerge to take its place. Many people seem to overlook the series of wars launched by the Palestinians and the suicide attacks carried out in Israel, targeting Jewish civilians over decades.
Israel has made numerous efforts to be a good neighbor, providing the Palestinian people with resources like energy and water for decades. In the past, Israel has even agreed to a two-state solution, but the Palestinians have consistently rejected the proposed terms. After years of enduring ongoing hostility, it appears Israel has reached a breaking point and is now determined to bring this prolonged conflict to an end. It would seem they have no other choice.Are you actually justifying netanyahu's use of genocide against Palestinians?
"Are you actually justifying netanyahu's use of genocide against Palestinians?" Willow
Agian Copy/Paste ---- That’s a strong emotional response, as I expected. But it sidesteps the actual point being debated. Recognizing the deep-rooted complexity of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict doesn’t mean lacking humanity; it means acknowledging history, context, and repeated patterns of aggression, failed negotiations, and missed peace opportunities. Dismissing concern for Israeli security or decades of provocation as a lack of compassion is unfair and overly simplistic.
Humanity should be applied to all sides. Condemning terrorism, protecting civilians, and understanding why peace efforts have failed time and again requires more than a reaction; it requires critical thinking, not partisan jabs.
Reducing the argument to a matter of "having a gene" or not being part of "MAGA" avoids serious discussion and turns a complex geopolitical issue into a political insult. That doesn’t help anyone, not Palestinians, not Israelis, and not Americans trying to make sense of it all.
Side note, regarding the MAGA jab. In my view, what I’ve observed is that those who lean right on this forum generally aim to keep the conversation civil and respectful, avoiding insults and labels. In contrast, some individuals on the left seem more inclined to use name-calling and inflammatory remarks, often trying to provoke rather than engage in thoughtful dialogue. What does that say about some on the left? It suggests that, for some, emotion and personal attacks are taking the place of reasoned discussion, something that does little to foster understanding or mutual respect.
Anyone who takes a moment to observe and read the comments posted here can clearly see the truth in what I’ve just shared.It's not genocide.
It's a war.
A genocide is like what happened to the Jews prior to WWII or what happened to Ukrainians during Holodomor.
Neither involved wars.What is the accepted definition of genocide? Not your definition.
The accepted definition of genocide comes from the United Nations Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide (1948). According to Article II of that convention:
"Genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:"
(a) Killing members of the group;
(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
Just what we saw on oct 7th...
Do you ever consider what you write?And just what we currently see in Gaza, right?
What occurred on October 7th, 2023, was an act of genocide against the Jewish people in their own land. Hamas terrorists invaded Israel and carried out deliberate, coordinated attacks aimed at exterminating Jews, men, women, children, infants, and the elderly, with unimaginable cruelty. The intent behind these atrocities was not simply military or political; it was rooted in hatred and a desire to annihilate a people based on their identity. The mass murder, mutilation, and abduction of civilians, including entire families, cannot be separated from the international definition of genocide, which includes acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial, or religious group.
I don't think anyone could turn away from the destruction that is now Gaza, or the sad fact that the people of Gaza are caught up in a war. But what we see there is not genocide; it is the unfortunate result of war. In contrast to the atrocities committed by Hamas, Israel’s military response does not meet the definition of genocide. Genocide involves the intentional and systematic destruction of a people; Israel’s stated and evident goal is the dismantling of Hamas, a terrorist organization that governs Gaza and openly declares its intent to destroy Israel. Israel issues evacuation warnings, opens humanitarian corridors, and attempts to minimize civilian casualties, actions inconsistent with genocidal intent. The tragic civilian deaths are a result of Hamas embedding itself within civilian infrastructure and using its own people as human shields, a documented and repeated war crime. While the suffering of innocents must never be dismissed, it is misleading and morally irresponsible to equate collateral damage in warfare with a campaign of genocide. Distinguishing between acts of self-defense and acts of extermination is essential to any honest discussion of international law and human rights.Armed palestinians are stealing the food.
A Genocide would not have the victims stealing food from their own people.
There is food...palestinians are making certain it is not distributed.
As always, the biggest problems palestianians have are ones they have created for themselves.
On October 7th Jewish women were taken into Gaza in pickup trucks and paraded around as people cheered. As these Jewish women were beaten and raped the palestinian people cheered.
I believe they've learned that was a big mistake.Here is the truth regarding your unsourced, unsubstantiated claims.
✅ Official Findings: No Systematic Aid Theft by Hamas
A recent USAID internal review examined 156 reported incidents of lost or stolen U.S.-funded aid between October 2023 and May 2025 and found no evidence that Hamas was involved in stealing that aid
The Times
+15
Anadolu Ajansı
+15
Jerusalem Post
+15
.
Senior IDF and Israeli officials told The New York Times they had no proof of routine or systemic theft of UN aid by Hamas
Jerusalem Post
.
A Reuters analysis confirmed that while Israel alleges Hamas diverted up to 25% of aid supplies for fighters or resale, those claims could not be independently verified; the U.S. government report contradicted the allegations
Jerusalem Post
+3
Reuters
+3
Anadolu Ajansı
+3
.Would you agree that you are showing ignorance of the facts when you use the label Palestinians to describe Hamas?
I don't think they're Norwegians.
This is how the State Department sees it.
"Hamas (or the Islamic Resistance Movement) is a Palestinian Sunni Islamist military and sociopolitical movement, and a U.S.-designated foreign terrorist organization (FTO). Hamas's primary base of action and support is in the Gaza Strip, which it has controlled since 2007. It also operates in the West Bank and Lebanon, and some Hamas leaders and personnel live and/or work in various Arab countries and Turkey. Hamas reportedly receives material assistance and training from Iran and some of its allies, including the Lebanese Shia group Hezbollah (another FTO). From its inception, Hamas has overseen a social welfare network that appears to have aided its popularity among Palestinians while serving as a conduit for some funding for Hamas military operations."
I'm sorry, I have to push back on your characterization of "liberals". It is simply wrong. It may be true of extremists and MAUGA, but not of liberals and normal, real conservatives.
As terrible as what Hamas did, that was not genocide.
“Genocide isn’t defined by simply killing members of a group—it requires the deliberate intent to destroy a significant part of that group. Courts like the International Criminal Tribunal have ruled that ‘in part’ must mean either a large proportion of the group, or a key segment essential to its survival. As horrific as the October 7th attack was, the 1,200 victims—while tragic—represent a tiny fraction of the Israeli or Jewish population and weren’t demonstrably targeted with the goal of erasing the group itself. Without clear genocidal intent or a substantial enough target, this fits more precisely under terrorism or crimes against humanity, not genocide.”
As to what Netanyahu is doing:
"Given the scale of death and destruction in Gaza, the blocking of basic survival needs, and the inflammatory rhetoric from some Israeli leaders, there's a credible case that Netanyahu's government may be committing genocide—or at the very least, war crimes and crimes against humanity. The ICJ itself found the claims plausible enough to order emergency protections. You don't need to deny Israel's right to self-defense to acknowledge that its response may have crossed legal and moral red lines."Everything would end and the healing would begin if Hamas surrendered.
It's just that simple.
The ICJ has no power and no real authority.There would still be no two-state solution until Netanyahu is gone. Only then will their be peace over there.
Ho hum,
I've posted more than once how the two state solution has been proposed 5 times and the palestinians have rejected it each and ever time. They don't want a two state solution, they want the destruction of Israel and it isn't going to happen.
There will only be peace when hamas surrenders.
Then the healing can begin.Me too! I mean, just this morning I posted the info right on this thread. However, received a diversion. Go figure.
https://hubpages.com/politics/forum/360 … ost4377860That would certainly stop the current war, but I think it will be cease fire like that between northern and southern Korea.
There already was a two state solution. Do you not know about Jordan? If the Israelis gave up 50 percent of their country do you think the Palestinians would not consider the rest of the place to be theres?
There have been many offers of a two-state solution for over 75 years. This is a fact that many choose to ignore. The offers are well documented. It has been made very clear that they never even entertained a two-state solution. It is futile to argue that fact.
Yes, that’s true; however, the Palestinians have repeatedly brought war to Israel’s doorstep. Even if Hamas were to disappear, it’s likely another terrorist group would rise in its place. It seems easy for some to forget the many conflicts initiated by the Palestinians and the suicide bombers they sent into Israel to kill Jews. It appears Israel has had enough and will fight until it defeats their enemy.
Their "enemy".... Consist of a group that is 50% under the age of 18.... That they are systematically starving to death. And it is pure speculation on your part that if these people were allowed to vote, that another terrorist group would come into power... Tell me again, when was the last time Palestinians voted for leadership?
.."That they are systematically starving to death."
Obviously, you've not looked into this subject.
Israel is not keeping food from Gaza. UN Agencies and corrupt palestinians are keeping the food from getting to its destination.
"Food aid is piling up inside Gaza. Here's why it's not reaching those in need
KEREM SHALOM CROSSING, ISRAEL-GAZA BORDER — More than a dozen empty flatbed trucks from Gaza rumble through the opening in the massive concrete wall that marks the border here. They park on the Israeli side and forklift drivers jump into action, loading huge sacks of flour, along with boxes of watermelons, mangoes, tomatoes and onions. Within 30 minutes, the trucks turn around and drive the short distance back into Gaza.
This scene plays out multiple times daily at Kerem Shalom, now the main artery supplying Gaza with food and medicine. All this activity raises hope that needed aid will reach the more than 2 million Palestinians trapped inside Gaza.
But here's the catch: Much of this humanitarian aid is piling up on the Gaza side of the border instead of traveling the last few miles to those suffering in the 10th month of the war between Israel and Hamas.
Israel blames the United Nations agencies responsible for collecting this aid and distributing it inside Gaza, saying they need to urgently step up aid deliveries.
"The U.N. is not increasing its capabilities," said Israeli Col. Elad Goren, who's part of the Israeli military branch that deals with civilian affairs in the Palestinian areas. "The crossings can move more goods. We can scan more trucks. We can move more aid into Gaza. This is not the bottleneck. Israel and the security screenings are in no way the obstacle of humanitarian aid entering Gaza."
Israel says hundreds of trucks have been unloaded on the Gaza side, but the aid can sit for days or even weeks before it is distributed to Palestinians.
looting in Gaza by armed Palestinians are crippling their ability to collect this aid from Kerem Shalom.Where did you get this "information"?
When I check with AI sources.. like so many on this forum do...this is what I get...
"Aid enters through crossings like Kerem Shalom on the Gaza side, but once there, United Nations agencies and aid organizations say they cannot collect or distribute the supplies due coordination issues with the Israeli army..."Actually, this is from NPR.
I don't see why it is the problem of the IDF to make certain the food is delivered. The UN has troops, use them to protect the food delivery.Not sure why you never provide links... But maybe the Israeli army could stop killing people when they're lining up for aid? Maybe they could let the aid go through and be properly delivered? Just a wild thought
Trump FAILS AGAIN!
"US Gaza ceasefire negotiating team leaving Doha after Hamas response"
https://www.cnn.com/world/live-news/gaz … 6nqhtowi0cFrance to recognize Palestine - America should do the same and preempt Netanyahu's intransigence for a two-state solution.
https://www.cnn.com/world/live-news/gaz … 6nqhtowi0cWhat's stunning about this hunger crisis in Gaza is that it is not unfolding in some remote part of the world, allowing leaders to feign ignorance; no, this starvation is in the headlines, on television and much discussed... yet still the world shrugs and the US is complicit.
"In my view, many Democrats lack the mindset needed to fully grasp the deep-rooted and long-standing nature of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict."
I'm going to go with this.
It is one among many very complicated issues democrats lack the mindset to fully grasp.
Another one is why democrats are so very unpopular.Nice Deflections folks.... Blaming Hamas doesn’t erase the responsibility of powerful nations.
If the U.S. and Israel have the means to prevent starvation, they also have the moral obligation to act.
Civilians should not be collateral in political stalemates, humanitarian aid must reach those in need...And the US, as well as many nations, are doing their best to attempt to get food into Gaza. Why do you feel that we are sending aid, yet preventing it from getting to the people? This kind of accusation needs facts.
I don't think I ever said "we" are preventing it, instead I clearly stated that the Israeli army was making it impossible to distribute aid...
"I don't think I ever said "we" are preventing it, instead I clearly stated that the Israeli army was making it impossible to distribute aid..." willow
Here is what you said
"Willowarbor wrote:
Nice Deflections folks.... Blaming Hamas doesn’t erase the responsibility of powerful nations.
If the U.S. and Israel have the means to prevent starvation, they also have the moral obligation to act.
Civilians should not be collateral in political stalemates, humanitarian aid must reach those in need..." Willow
Your context shares that you feel the US and Israel have the power to prevent it... This indicates to me that you feel they are, in some respects, causing starvation. Due to a lack of doing anything. My response remains unchanged, and the US, as well as many nations, are doing their best to attempt to get food into Gaza. Why do you feel that we are sending aid, yet preventing it from getting to the people? This kind of accusation needs facts.
No, it's recognizing that they are both turning a blind eye to what is being prosecuted in Gaza by Israel.
"looting in Gaza by armed Palestinians are crippling their ability to collect this aid from Kerem Shalom.'
Netanyahu LIES AGAIN!!
"US government review found no evidence of widespread Hamas theft of Gaza aid"
https://www.cnn.com/2025/07/25/politics … t-gaza-aidOh Yes but in the mind of many of the Maga faithful, the Palestinian people deserve to be starved to death because some of them have been "a warring people" in the past.... Remember, they tell us that it is Bibi's right to commit genocide.
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