Just curious to get people's reactions, opinions, insight, knowledge or wisdom, so as to see if a barrier I see actually exists.
The barrier? Is the ignorance(lack of knowledge) behind making them the same thing, when clearly they are not.
Anyone want to take a shot at it?
The difference if you please....
Thank you for you responses in advance.
I don't think so. But thank you for your response. There is a difference between them, and simply because you believe something to be true, doesn't make it true.
If you need to know the difference, look at blondepoet's reply to this thread.
Perception is everything is the knowing and believing realm. Knowing as in something which has been proven and learned is not the same as knowing as in feeling the essence of truth in something.
Believing is a matter of trust. One can believe something which was read or not believe. One can also know something by first hand experience or by a sense of knowing.
If you know something you may or may not believe it but if you beleive you know about it surely.
one based on fact the other on assumption
Not the same at all. To have a belief could be anything from what religion you are to how you raise your children, but what you KNOW is things that are tried and true to you by and what we have been taught. We know the ABCS, for example... but you believe that there is a heaven and hell, when for some that belief is not even an option to think about. As they personally feel that they KNOW there is no such places, by reasearch ETC>
Knowing includes evidence and Believing does not include evidence
Knowing is a higher level than Believing.
Knowing is one of enlightenment emotional responses to the knowledge that is offered by ones own thoughts.
Believing is a lower emotional response to ones thoughts about a subject.
The higher the thoughts the more one moves up the emotional gauge or emotional degree from Negative Emotional of Fear to Doubt to Belief all the way to Knowing, and Enlightenment, Joy, and Love...
All these are thoughts and emotional mixtures..
Living and love. That's the difference.
Knowing ... per se, is Knowledge, without Distinction.
Believing ... is, the Knowledge, of Truth ... where the Knower, does not have the option, of Denying ...
In epistemology (philosophy of knowledge) knowledge is boiled down to a "Justified True Belief" - with a few exceptions. That is I believe that it's raining, I am justified in believing so because we live in a temperate climate and this sort of thing happens all the time, and it's true, it really is raining. If I had never looked out of the window, or I lived in the sahara, and I believed it was raining, i would be wrong, and therefore i don't "know" that it's raining.
There are some exceptions to this though. For example I look at the clock tower which tells me that it is 12 noon, which is true. I believe it, I'm justified in believing it, and it's true. However, the clock hasn't been working all week, it stopped at 12 noon last friday. It just happens to be the right time. Do I still "know" the time?
Can we really ever know in the way that our language implies? probably not. I "know" the sun will rise tomorrow. Or more precisely, it is extremely probable, so much so that I am prepared to stake everything I own on it.
To believe is to have the opinion that something in the past happened, that an event occurred.
To know is to predict the future, to be able to tell accurately what will happen in the future.
I believe Caesar lived, I know sun will rise tomorrow morning.
Knowing is being certain of something no matter what your personal opinions are. It normally is a proven true fact.
Believing is putting your faith or trust in something that you yourself see as the truth. However it may not be the truth.
Very nice answer Blondepoet!
How are you this morning?
I am doing wonderful dear Cags I had a beautiful morning and just ate a crab roll, I feel bloated like a bull frog.
Bloated like a bull frog? I guess I could pretend to be a prince and kiss you back into the princess we know as BP. But I don't know if it works in reverse or not. I might turn into a bloated bull frog. But I will do what I must milady.
I am a risk taker Blake, let us give it a bash.
Pucker up froggy style. Smack!!!! Smooches, and a little tongue. lol
(What an incredibly dazzling frog you turned yourself into my dear...)
I agree completely BP...
Check my latest you will love it babydoll...
In essence Knowing is outside the ego, there is no I in team type idea
but the collective rules
But believing is completely devoid of reason, and trusting in that which cannot be know or tested
Except for me
I know everything I believe is true
And believe everything I know is true
Which can only lead me to one conclusion
Everything believable is knowingly false
So there , take that.!!!!!
Can you say, for instance, what is a "true, proven fact?" Look, as a mathematician, I have a healthy respect for what can be logically demonstrated as "true" based upon a beginning set of axioms. Unfortunately, there is no logic for determining if your axioms are true. They may be what you call self-evident, but think about that by itself for a moment. Are you going to say that something is definitely "proven" true, because it is true? Now, I am deliberately being contentious, and I know that for practical purposes the basis of rationality is the best possible system on which a person may confer "truth" on an idea - but we aren't talking about practical purposes, are we? Ask a philosophical question, get a philosophical answer, Cagsil.
This is a question that could just as validly have been put into the linguistics category. People have multiple uses for the word "believe" and "know." They use "believe" when they are certain and they use "know" when, in truth, they merely believe.
In this latter instance "believe" is used somewhat ironically or even sarcastically. This word,'believe' is used to strike a certain mood. 'Believe' is used as a kind of bet against someone who may challenge their accuracy on something.
To "know" is used to affirm conviction that something must be true. There is not really a firm difference between knowing and believing. We may "know" the world is round but there are members of something called 'The Flat Earth Society' who, with equal conviction "know" the world is flat.
People 'believe' in God via one or another religious system. Depending upon the level of their conviction, their belief morphs into "knowledge." If one's religious certainty is not so rock-ribbed, then they may be more comfortable saying that they believe in God, rather than asserting knowledge of "His" existence.
What does "believe" mean in this instance? You find yourself on a sliding scale of a level of conviction about the truth of something - somewhere between rejection and acceptance. Persons with relatively low belief will find themselves on the scale more tilted to rejection (but not quite); those with stronger belief will find themselves on the scale more tilted toward acceptance. What does knowing mean in this sense?
True knowing can only cover a very limited range of our perception of reality. I know it is 10:24 in the morning on Sunday that I am writing this. I know my name and the particulars of my history; I know the identities of friends, relatives, family member, and so forth. Knowing cannot be very deeply involved in matters of philosophy, religion, and the like, despite believers assertions to the contrary. Knowing is involved in the sciences and other objective disciplines - and yet for other people these "facts" can be rejected as false beliefs.
I hope that helps.
I don't think that the term "know" is even as firm as you make it out to be. If I drop a golf ball I "know" it will hit the ground. Unless a mini tornado suddenly comes up and blows it into the nearby water hazard (happens all the time to MY golf balls!). You "know" your name - were you inadvertently switched as an infant in the hospital? You "know" your friends identities - is one of them operating under false ID?
One can never know the future - unforseen actions can always occur. The past is never COMPLETELY known in every possible detail. Even the present can be suspect - the blue car you're looking at in the parking lot is sitting under a sodium lamp and is actually green.
To "know" then simply indicates a very high probability that your "belief" is correct and true. That probability must be based on far more than your own ego and desires.
Thank You, Wilderness. The idea of "knowing" is very fluid. I thought I mentioned that it could only be confined to a very narrow spectrum of human experience. Some people of faith, fundamentalists, make the concept of "knowledge" more firm than it should be.
Clearly the difference is 2 letters!
This is a serious difference if you have a Speech Impediment
I have thought about the relationship between knowing and believing, but its too long to write here.
I explore believing as related to faith and whether that constitutes knowledge or not.
Would you believe me if I told you I know somethings that you don't know?
Great Question. I believe that there is a huge difference between knowing something fundamentally and intellectually, (for example, methods, ideas or principles that can really help you to change your life for the better), and then actually applying what you know and making it personal. It only becomes a belief when you have many references to back it up, like actual life experiences to prove this belief, therefore allowing it to become a belief, or a conviction. I believe that since we live in an information dense world, someone can know all they want to, but unless they apply it and make it personal, they may not really believe in the validity of what they "know." You can tell someone something over and over again and they may respond with "I know," and they truly may "know" but is it personal? Do they really know? Or do they just know it intellectually, in their heads, because it sounds basic? There is where I believe the difference really sits.
Knowledge is not power, knowledge is possible power. Believing, making it a core conviction and using your beliefs in a resourceful way on a consistent basis, is power!
Oh I'm at a point in life ... I know nothing and believe little...
I believe that I will wake in the morning, but I know that I may not be alive for that moment, for life is taken at any time for no available reason.
I know this thread is about the difference between "knowing" and "believing", but the word "fact" has come up and that always gets my attention.
I actually don't care for the word "fact". It's been the topic of a number of arguments between my husband and myself.
I believe that one person's facts may not be the same as another's. Facts are always opinions in my opinion. Facts are simply conclusions one makes based on a variety of pieces of input (current data, background, upbringing, education, etc). We might both conclude the same thing, but we might not. Millions of people might conclude the same thing, but it changes nothing. If we conclude something differently then this now makes your fact different than mine. We both can firmly believe them and shout from the rooftops that they must be true, but that doesn't make them true for anyone but you.
My husband maintains that "anyone is entitled to their opinion, but not their own facts". The scientist in him wants to establish ONE fact that is indisputable.
I believe EVERYTHING, without exception, is about your OWN perspective and I acknowledge and appreciate that every single person alive may have an entirely different perspective and it's equally correct, valid and beneficial to all.
I don't care for the word "fact" much either - partly because it puts our minds into a way of thinking that limits "spectrum" ideas and turns most things into "either/or" classifications.
As far as the OP question about the difference between knowing and believing, I think, yes, there are differences.
I believe that knowing is, well - knowing something. BELIEVING something is taking that extra step to incorporate what you "know" into practice, acting on it as if it is true/truth and believing involves the action of being committed to upholding what you know...
Some things I "know," I don't commit myself to or do not act on. Many of these things, I do not act on, because I am not sure they are worthy of action or because I am unsure as to how they incorporate into my belief system yet and how I can or should act on them...
The latter "knowing" without committment of believing encompassess a TON of things I have yet to decide upon or act upon. Man, I've got a lot to to yet, eh? lol
As well, there are things I don't know, but do believe and act upon as if they are true (so I wouldn't do well in a conversation with deepthinker76 who said "Knowing includes evidence and Believing does not include evidence)... things like "I believe there is something that follows death" but I have no evidence...I live my life, however, as if death is not an end...or my thinking is wrapped around the idea that I do not need to worry about death, so I don't sit around in an anxious state like I might if I were certain that death is the absolute end. So I am committed to something that lacks evidence and is, technically, rather illogical for me to believe.
In my view this is a very easy question to answer: Believing is an idea in the mind; it is a thought-form Knowing is something which has actually been experienced. A belief MIGHT change our life philosopy. An experience ALWAYS does.
From perspectives in linguistics and psychology (theory of consciousness), I have found that knowing and believing are not the same thing because only when knowing (the perception and acknowledgment of states, conditions, or facts) is installed as an operative principle within a paradigm (or "schema"), does belief emerge. Belief is the result of building a context around knowledge that transforms perceptions into principles. We "know" that drugs could kill us, see it every day, read about it, but we "believe" we will not be harmed and that they are worth the risk. We know we are breaking the law in possessing or distributing them, but we believe we will not be caught because we "know" we are not really criminals. Knowing is not only not the same thing, it doesn't operate the same as belief, and can stand in complete contradiction and still be ignored. Belief trumps knowledge, in all cases; hence, it is difficult to "educate" someone out of their beliefs. This requires experiential reconditioning, so a paradigm shift can occur which will ultimately destroy old beliefs and/or rebuild new ones. No one wants the trauma of having their entire worldview toppled like this. It is psychologically intolerable, like your virtual world being nuked.
So what you're saying is there is sort of a cause and effect, impressions on the mind causing us to behave in certain patterns. The magnetic quality of habitual mental patterns and memory, clings even though there may have been a change of physical embodiment by class, space or time.
it's when you are aware of one thing yet you don't put it on action....
though you don't have enough idea about it yet you stand for it...
The other day, I dropped a piece of toast. It hit the floor. I did this 30 times.
On the 31st time, I KNEW that the piece of toast was going to fall to the ground. Why? Because I had performed numerous experiments, and each one came up exactly the same way.
Then I formulated a reason behind it - it was because there was an invisible chain connected between all things and the Earth - and because the Earth was big, it didn't bet pulled nearly as much as other things.
Then I took that "reason", that "explanation", that "hypothesis", and I went about comparing it to other situations. Why didn't the moon ever fall down? Why didn't the sun ever fall into the earth?
Unfortunately at that point, I had no answer. So I went through and learned more about what OTHER people had discovered about the world. They went through and launched things very quickly around the planets and around the stars and around other large objects, and they found out that if they increase the speed of the object, they can get the item to continuously fall around the planet or star for ever.
They had done this numerous times, just like me dropping my toast, and so they KNEW that it was true, and so I KNEW that it was true.
I came across someone else's discovery. They said that it was a giant invisible man in the "unseeable" area of the universe. And he spent all his time making sure that the Moon never collapsed into the Earth, and that the sun never hit the earth. But this person never showed me the giant invisible man, nor did they provide any evidence for his existence. They just kept telling me that if I didn't agree, I would go to another invisible area... after i died.
That is how KNOWING something and BELIEVING something are completely different. Trial - Hypothesis - Experimentation - Peer review.
Science is how knowledge is gained.
I enjoyed this illustration of how knowing and belief are related and not related. For the sake of argument, the relevant question would be, what would happen if you dropped your toast one morning and it didn't hit the ground? Would you form a belief to explain it, or search for new facts? Some people would choose to form a belief, some would look for new facts, and some would just complain because they were really hungry and their breakfast was not cooperating.
I'm surprised I missed this thread.
I'd say...knowing is the after affect of gaining knowledge, whether or not the knowledge obtained is factual, right or wrong.
Believing is a mental action meant to put the mind, body, and soul at ease regarding knowledge obtained whether it be factual, right or wrong.
So, in other words, believing leads to knowing. I say this because first you must believe something to be true before you can know it's true.
It is known that human visited Moon...
but still it is believing that live is there &in futrture people will reside there
Believing humans visited the Moon had to come before knowing it was true because nobody can 'know' anything without first 'believing' it.
When I first learned to add 2+2 I had to 'believe' the answer was 4 before I could 'know' the answer was in fact 4 and not 3 or 5 or whatever.
Believing it is possible to live on the moon 'may' make it known in the future, or it may not come true. Belief can not and does not lead to factual evidence being true when it is in fact false.
I agree very much with this great illustration of yours.
For me, BELIEVING and KNOWING are but the two faces of the same coin. When we believe something, we may have convinced ourselves of something without having substantial evidence to support it. It can often be the action of blind faith. For instance, some people believe rap music is a fad.
However when we KNOW something, we have found solid evidence to support our beliefs. Now mind you, the "evidence" may be only obvious to us. An example of this is creationism. Evolutionist claim creationists are wrong, but creationist find hard evidence for creation in the intrinsic designs in nature. See, when we come from a place of KNOWING, there is this unwavering zealous and unshakable feeling of reality tied to the subject of our belief that no one or anything can convince us otherwise. So some people say about faith that faith is to believe without seeing, others say you have to see in order that you may believe and have faith. I say, both must coexist together to give birth to faith. There is a riddle of faith that goes something like this: Do we believe because we have all the evidence, or do we have all the evidence because we believe? It is up to us to figure it out.
(just thought I'd point out this is a discussion on the difference between knowing and believing - the OP said Nothing about faith, creation, or evolution!)
The English language is often tricky but I think the words belief and faith can mean the same thing though each can mean different things. Having faith or trust, having a faith or religion, believing someone or trusting what they have said, and so on.
It's really hard to say what the difference is, as it depends on the subject we're talkin about. If you asked a question like how do you know the Dallas Cowboys are having a bad season versus believing they are, well then that's easy to define, as you can easily point to stats and whatnot to prove your point. Wheras if your talking about religion, then that's another story, as there's no definitive proof that religion or god exists outside of belief. Sure, you have many people that claim to have near death experiences, and claim to allegedly see god. However, it's also a proven fact that the mind can and does play tricks on people a lot. therefore, it could be easily argued that what they saw is a hallucination and nothing more. it's hard to say when it comes to religion. knowing implies that you actually know something exists like yourself, or that we need air to breath. that's a fact.
believing in something requires faith with no real justification, to back it up. something like when you marry a person. there's no guarantee that person will always be faithful to you, but you choose to believe they will as you love them.
In my way of thinking, knowing is the end result of exercises in faith. Faith being defined by the assurance that the obedience to the laws of the Universe or God will result in the promised rewards associated with them. Once you try the law and find the result then knowledge is the natural fruit. Beliefs are a matter of perspective and are held by people without respect to any facts or documentary evidence to the contrary. Faith that yields knowledge is observable and verifiable from the observation of the experiment in obedience that is repeatable. Perspective and point of view must be maintained but it is doable. Belief has no such sureties.
No difference. Same thing. But you can't intellectually believe something. You have to feel it. Who feels it knows it.
I think its more of a feeling than knowledge or belief - I dont believe in all the God stuff - but I feel the spirits watching over me
Knowing is the ultimate truth, there is no question, no doubt, it rings true to your very core. Knowing comes from a state of pure awareness.
Believing is based on facts or knowledge which instills ones beliefs.
Believing is an ingrained thought pattern that has come about and solidified into a sort of gell in the mind. It is based upon trust, but it could still be wrong as far as the truth pertaining to the matter. Knowing is having experienced the truth of something.
To give an example. Someone tells you that the food at JJ's restaurant is excellent. You believe your friend absolutely. He's never let you down before. You go along to JJ's because you believe the food is going to be great. You get there and -Good God! It's awful! This is knowing.
Because truth is in a constant state of flux, because our perspective of it can change, Knowing is really a misnomer. However to simply answer the question- Knowing infers you have proof of the existence of something. Belief infers faith that something is true, in other words no proof but a positive belief.
Both are not definitive terms, inference being the communicator. That is my view.
knowing means you are sure about the truth, believing means that you have chosen a truth (based on your experience or opinion)
Knowing turns to knowledge which eventually converts to belief
Knowing is being confident in what you know. Believing is more like Gut feeling kinda thing.
I would vouch more on Knowing things than believing since, that gives the assurance of any data.
It's a matter of fact and faith. Knowing relies on the former while believing relies on the later. The former is objective, the later subjective.
Are we talking about fact and opinion here? Something we know to be true is a fact that we can prove. Something we believe expresses our feelings and emotions and it cannot be proven.
"The word "belief" is a difficult thing for me. I don't believe. I must have a reason for a certain hypothesis. Either I know a thing, and then I know it - I don't need to believe it." Carl Jung
Knowing -- there is some logic behind the decision
Believing -- there is NO logic behind the decision, only "faith".
For example: "I know he didn't murder that woman." (Because I know him personally and from what I know of him he's not a killer)
"I believe there is an after-life." (though I can't really prove it.)
Believing is faith based, and knowing is factual, based off tangible certainties. That's my two cents worth.
Knowing is believing with unaldulterated certainty. Believing is not knowing and not wanting to be certain.
Knowing is understanding.
Believing is pretending to understand.
Everything a person has stored in their brain is a belief. Believing is the act of using a belief. Knowing requires that a person attain the truth of his/her belief(s) which is logically impossible. A person can be 99.9999% certain of a belief, but not "know" it per say. A belief that has been justified with observable/testable evidence is knowledge (not to be confused with knowing).
we know that go exists and taking care of his world...but do we believe he is in real
after some one says I LOVE U, we know ok, but do we believe
we know that our parents and dear ones are scolding, punishing, forcing to study and filling our life with sorrow, but de we believe.
Knowing is just a very strong belief. Anything you know can be potentially disproved at any time. The Ancients "knew" the world was flat, didn't they? When enough people use logic and reason to decide that they know something, it is just a very strong belief that is difficult to get rid of. Just because a belief is difficult to get rid of does not mean that belief is correct. Knowledge is very powerful but very tenuous at the same time.
We humans cannot KNOW ANYTHING for absolute, undeniable, proven, unadulterated, unchangeable.....pure & simple fact at ALL times, for all Purposes, Under ALL circumstances for EVERYONE, EVERYWHERE. Having said this....I BELIEVE we can only "BELIEVE."
I agree, we think we know stuff but it is just something we believe in.Karl Popper, a philosopher suggested we should always test things rigorously for falsifiability. Some other philosophers agree and suggest the search for truth just goes on .... and on.
The difference is a slight energy shift inside of you. To believe something is future and mind based and something you are chasing.
The knowing has depth and resonates with your whole being
Negativity to Positivity to Belief to Knowing
I am speaking about exactly this next September in London at I Can Do It.
Great question :-)
When you know, you don't fear. When you believe it may throw you for a loop.
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