Why Is Porn Really An Issue?

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Cagsilposted 12 years ago
Hey American Hubbers,

Why is Pornography really an issue for you?

It's not like they are asking YOU to participate.
It's not like anyone is hurt in the process of making.(actually I think a lot them actually enjoy their work and are happy with their life and choices made)

Laws are in place. Most children don't have access unless an adult gives them access.

I mean seriously, is this an issue you need to be concerned with when in fact there are more serious issues to be dealt with.
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  stclairjackposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  here here!,..... absolutley!,.... as long as under age performers are not involved,.... then please take your uptight alledged "values" and kindly mind your own buiness!
  
  three cheers for cags!
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you stclairjack.
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  910chrisposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Agreed on all fronts!! No one is forcing you to watch it, yet. LOL
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  phionposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  It's a non-issue. It has been around in one way shape or form forever. Neal Boortz had a funny conversation with a caller the other day that basically hits on your same points. People absolutely should focus their efforts on more pressing issues.
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  junksellerposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I somewhat agree with you, but not enough to say that porn isn't in issue at all. The internet hasn't necessarily changed porn, it has changed the way we interact with it. We now have immediate access to almost anything we can possibly think of and the supply is nearly infinite. This matters. At least in the past a person might theoretically have to leave their house and have to face a cashier in order to satisfy their granny's with midgets fetish and then they might only get two hours worth before having to go do it again. All of those types of barriers are now gone. It would be like putting casinos in the closets of gamblers. For people who remain free from the grips of porn, that is alright, but for people capable of being addicted it is an important issue.
  
  Also, it is not in any way difficult to access porn on the internet. I will bet my left nut that any half-way intelligent child can get access to it.
  
  I'm not one to go around limiting the choices other people freely make, but at the same time, I feel bad that so many people do make the choice to make porn. I don't know any 6 yr-old girls who dream about growing up to be porn stars. I'd much rather they grew up to be what they did dream of being rather than growing up to be a dumphole.
  
  I would also tend to disagree it is harmless. I doubt many young girls really know what they are getting into when they make the choice to make porn or fully understand the potential consequences (disease, pregnancy, harm to family relationships, difficulties with personal relationships). 18 is an adult, it is still pretty young. I'm sure there are plenty of girls who walk away with scars that were not worth whatever money they made. And that is just regarding those who willingly make the decision. I suspect there are also many (probably more than is known) who make the decision through some sort of coercion or incapacity. Sure there are famous pornstars who get interviewed in magazines and will say how they love what they do, but I think they are a very small subset of the number of girls making porn. I suspect that most very quietly shoot 1 or 2 scenes and no one but them ever really knows. How do we really know what that was like for them?
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  WOW! *shakes head side to side*
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  junksellerposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I don't really know what that means. You asking a question I assumed meant you wanted people to answer. Maybe not.
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  That was my response to your post.
  
  I asked a question and you posted a response. Then I responded. The fact that you didn't like my response is your problem, not mine. I didn't mind you answering the question, you have a right to your opinion and the right to express said opinion.
  
  Your post was difficult to read, so much so, that it would have taken me at least an hour to write a response and it would be a lot of editing and honestly just too much aggravation.
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  junksellerposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I din't mind. I just have no idea why you asked the question. At least I know not to waste anymore of my time on you.
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  schoolgirlforrealposted 9 years agoin reply to this
  I think he owed you more than a "shakes head side to side" answer, considering you took the time to answer his question, but it's obvious he didn't want a real answer. I agree with your answer too. It was very well thought out and you made very valid and important points. Some people are really ignorant!
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  phionposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  It was actually a simple question, but good job making it into a heartfelt issue for the poor, abused, and taken advantage of. I didn't even bother to read all of what you wrote, because it’s clear you can judge your book by its cover, and there is no new idea's to be examined in your posts.
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  junksellerposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  If it were a simple question than why even ask it? If all someone wants is for people to agree with them than they can stand in the mirror and pat themselves on the back. Otherwise how about putting on some big boy pants.
  
  If you really don't think there are any issues at all with porn addiction, children accessing porn, or real consequences for people in the porn industry than you either aren't paying attention, or care very little for your neighbors. I didn't say one little word at all about restricting pornography in any way at all, nor did I make even a slight judgmental statement about anybody who watches or makes porn, so I really don't know what your problem is, nor do I have any idea what cover of which book I am supposedly judging. Considering you couldn't even be bothered to read what I wrote, I feel somewhat confident that you didn't spend any time actually thinking about what I wrote. Why don't you try a little harder. If you are uninterested in my points than why say anything? If you have criticisms of my points than say something intelligent, but your "I am the Grand Wizard of Everything and can instantaneously dismiss you from existence" argument is the work of pure asshood.
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  schoolgirlforrealposted 9 years agoin reply to this
  The problem with Cagsil - and he's no longer here, thank God because he was such an argumentative person who literally attacked people regularly in the religion and philosophy forums, is had too many blind ducks, and people who stuck up for him all the time, in a nano second. Granted he may have exuded some sort of charm but not a very decent one at that!!! Glad he's gone. Haha
  Apparently he was banned from the forums for life. Big surprise.
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  WhydThatHappenposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Craziness. Junkseller- I guess you just failed a pop-quiz that you didn't know you were taking! (the correct answer was "a" for true)
  
  I agree with junkseller's point about young women being under-informed or unable to fully comprehend the repercussions of their choices- that happens ALL THE TIME. From choosing the wrong major in college, regretting a military contract, to marrying the wrong person, to investing in the wrong business, to missing opportunities because of priorities, to getting into car accidents from driving recklessly, to getting in trouble with the law for immaturity- should I continue?
  
  The point is that people have regrets and look back with 20/20 on all kinds of decisions- doing porn movies isn't excluded just because it's a political issue!
  
  And what makes porn different from a lot of other bad decisions is that the movie will be around forever- one (possibly) poor but legal choice leads to a lifetime of consequences. Some crimes don't hold as much stigma over criminals as a pornstar goes through.
  
  In fact, my friend's mom was a playboy playmate before my friend was born, and it made my friend a little bit insecure- an unforeseen consequence of doing porn spreads because of a pre-internet age. We know better. We know that the stuff is going to be out there forever. Kids 100 years from now will be stumbling accross "vintage porn" photos of their grandmas and grandpas porn pics from today.
  
  What 18 year old has that kind of foresight?
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  junksellerposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Ya, stupid me. What was I thinking.
  
  The other issue with the internet age is the lack of anonymity. Girls use a stage name and think no one will ever know. And the porn producers make privacy assurances they just can't keep.
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  Eve Mitchellposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Junkseller, yes, for people with addictive personalities porn can be a problem, but so can alcohol, which is pretty readily available as well. Should we place the same concern on the availability of alcohol that we place on porn, because of the *possibility* of addiction?
  
  As far as the women in porn flicks, again, one answer to that is education. Stigmatizing porn because of the trafficking aspect would be like, as someone else said, stigmatizing entire other industries because the products are made unethically or even illegally. But as far as young women who may not know what they're getting into, or who may have allowed themselves to be coerced, IMO, if we weren't so prudish when it comes to sex we'd be teaching our children about all of this, meaning young women might be much better equipped to make such a decision.
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  junksellerposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Absolutely. Addiction isn't a theoretical possibility. It is a very real thing that has serious consequences to people and their families. There is a lot of concern for alcohol addiction and we have things like AA to try and help people with it. If someone were to propose installing spigots in people's households that dispensed a never-ending stream of alcohol, I suspect we would be pretty concerned about it, not because addiction is somehow new, but because the delivery system itself would bypass any and all ways people have of combating their addiction. The limitless spigot is what we have done with porn. I think it is an issue.I don't really understand the don't stigmatize the industry argument. Consumers do it all the time. People avoid companies and products all the time because of where and how they are made. No reason to treat porn any different.Believe me, I am all for education. If I ran a school, I'd have sex-ed every year from 6th-12th grade (at least). Our lack of sex-ed in schools is a complete and massive failure.
  
  But still, sex-ed would be teaching about normal healthy interpersonal and sexual relationships. It would not be teaching how to be a porn star. We aren't talking about normal loving sex with single partners that we know. We are talking about extreme sex, oftentimes quite vigourous, usually with above averaged sized-men (and objects), with strangers, with multiple partners, often intentionally violent or degrading, all filmed over the course of perhaps hours, on a set full of people who probably mostly care about the performers being good cumbuckets. Plus, education isn't in any way going to prepare them for how to negotiate and sign a contract in a way that protects themselves. And is there any way to prepare for dealing with STDs like HIV or Chlamydia? Or how about the consequences of people finding out about what they do? No, I've never met a young lady, educated or not, who was really equipped to make that decision.
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  recommend1posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I have some issues with porn. And I do think it is an important issue.
  
  Before those who only half read anything before making stupid comments jump in, I don't have an issue per se with watching porn - I have issues with the effects it has on society and the individual.
  
  First, I think it is an issue for the people involved in the business of making it. I find it hard to believe that a great deal of the portrayed activities are undertaken by people who might be considered 'normal', and that the activities often portray women as sex objects also men but maybe less so. Anything that reduces a person to an object also reduces the degree of humanity in the actors and the watchers.
  
  Second the effect on society is detrimental and divisive. Porn portrays through the back door, (if you pardon the pun), through open displays of activities that are still considered private in the real world. Rather than acceptance of porn raising its value to society the porn is reducing societal values and in conjunction with the decline in educational standards is leading to a situation where vast numbers of, mostly young people, literally becoming semi-literate w@nkers.
  
  I have just transcribed the script of a recent American commercial video. Of note was the terrible grammar, horribly mixed metaphors and plain bad English - and the half sexualised presentation by a rather grotesque 'nurse' in a promotional video about child care and medicine. I am pretty sure that she is unconciously making suggestive body language by pouting and seductive head shoulder movents, culminating with the punch line by leaning forward to display her cleavage. I do think these are visible signs of the effects of porn in society.
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  Pearldiverposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Wow...
  
  I wonder what Wayne Kerr would have to say about being referred to as semi-literate by a Panda!!
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  A Thousand Wordsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Actually Cagsil, I have happily watched porn for some time, until now. I think that the Porn Industry, is full of men and women who are there of their own accord. But there are also many who are not. Just because a woman looks happy and like she enjoys what she is doing, doesn't ACTUALLy mean that she is happy. It's called acting. Especially when your life is threatened. Also, there are often young girls, especially on those free sites, who you seriously have to question whether they are actually 18 or not. Just because in the beginning of the video, the black screen pops up saying that all of the women in the video are actually 18 doesn't mean that they are. Now, of course, the more mainstream, well known porn stars are less likely to be illegal or "forced." However, the porn that is really more popular and prevalent is amateur. Basically anyone nowadays it seems can post a video on sites like YouJizz or what have you, and no one really ever asks
  
  1) Is that girl really 18?
  2) Even if she is, does she actually want to be there?
  3) Does she look high? (Not necessarily weed high, but drugged up high)
  4) What if this is one of the hundreds of thousands of young girls/boys/women out there being trafficked against their will?
  
  Sex trafficking is actually booming partly because of our obsession with porn. While I feel it is healthy for us to explore our sexuality (safely), I think the more important question is, what can we do to better regulate this industry, so that women/girls/boys, are not exploited for this type of thing? And should we continue to support porn (by watching it, even if its free, buying it, etc) while such vile things are happening behind the scenes?
  
  Question for anyone to ponder: Have you ever had to put on a happy face when everything that you're feeling inside was the exact opposite? How many people actually knew what you were truly feeling, or did everyone just assume you were "happy" because they didn't try to dig deeper?
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  Josakposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You would be hard pressed to find any industry that isn't tainted by people who do the wrong thing and operate immorally, the coltan in our mobile phones and Iphones is more often than not mined by child labourers in horrible conditions in the Congo, our clothes and footwear are made in sweatshops, our coffee and chocolate is often grown by near slaves in oppressive countries like Zimbabwe,our diamonds are often blood diamonds, our computers are often made in factories so bad that recently one in China had to install safety measures on it's roof because the workers kept killing themselves on their lunch break.
  
  It's nigh on impossible for us to avoid consuming products made immorally, all we can do is try to buy and consume products we believe to be ethically created, inevitably we fail sometimes, we should do the same with pornography people should always do their best to consume reputable material that seems ethical but we should no more stop consuming pornography for that reason than mobile phones or clothing.
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  A Thousand Wordsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  While I understand and agree with a lot of what you said, that's precisely why we must do something about those things! If we just continue to shrug our shoulders, then nothing will change. But it's precisely because of issues like these that Fair Trade items are now available to us, the professional porn world including magazines and the like are better regulated, etc. Because someone says "enough!" And that's it's not fair to those being taken advantage of behind the scenes to have the conditions that have. And that might involve a boycott or two... I'm going to look ino some of those products/issues you brought up. Thanks.
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  Mickelodianposted 9 years agoin reply to this
  Y'know in fairness a fair trade for porn is not an utterly bad idea... 'Fair Laid' maybe? With rules... all actors over 18, all actors agreeing its their choice and in fact members of the system, all producers etc. agreeing to distribution rules... and indeed all payments given to actors agreed fairly.
  
  If that what it would take to generate a THEM and US in the porn industry then grand... thats fine, most porn producers would agree since it would make another barrier to entry by cheaply produced porn of the type you are stating is a moral issue.
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  twosheds1posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I wouldn't say that no porn actresses are exploited or enter voluntarily, but I don't think the fact that some are exploited is a reason to indict a whole industry or the concept of adult entertainment as a whole. Assuming all participation is voluntary, there is no reason why adult material should not be available.
  
  Some have made the argument that porn gives men, and in particular young men, the "wrong idea" about women and sex. I would argue that ALL media give men the wrong ideas about women, especially media aimed at women. I think shows like "Sex and the City" are more harmful to women than porn has ever been.
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  logic,commonsenseposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  It is just another method for those who think they know better than anyone how to run everyone else's life, to run everyone else's life.
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  twosheds1posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Here's a radical idea: why is it that we're OK with letting our kids see violence (e.g., any superhero movie from the last 20+ years) but letting them see or even know about sex is bad?
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  Jeff Berndtposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Reminds me of one of George Carlin's standup routines....
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  twosheds1posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I consider it an honor to be compared to him. Thanks.
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  gmwilliamsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Why all the issue of two consenting adults being curious about sexuality and exploring it through media? This is the 21st century. Many adults enjoy pornography. I do not even like that word- it has such a back alley and negative connotation. What makes me totally nonplussed is that the issue of adult human sexuality is viewed in a less than positive light. Sexuality is not shameful but it is a natural and joyous aspect of life. I will never understand the subconscious negativity surrounding sexual matters in America. Well, let me stop before I really get started............I am moving on, folks, have a nice day!
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  Eve Mitchellposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I don't see that it's an issue, except perhaps on a personal level between two people in a relationship. Then it's only a problem that those two need to work out between themselves. To society as a whole, it's not an issue, it's not degrading morals or eroding values. Whether you watch porn or not, or participate in the making of porn videos or not, is up to you. Sex is not going to go away.
  
  Further, porn is degrading to women the same way shows like Mad Men and Sex and the City are degrading to women. Those shows are okay so why shouldn't porn be? The industry is not going to go away no matter how many evils society deems it to carry.
  
  The answer is not forcing away porn, and by extension, the idea of enjoyable sex, the answer is E-D-U-C-A-T-I-O-N. And by education, I mean teaching our children the truths of sex, including the good stuff (instead of just trying to scare them with the number of diseases they can catch if they don't practice safe sex), and including the ideas that people, men and women bother, are PEOPLE, and not TOYS.
  
  I think if society stopped being so afraid of sex and sex education, we wouldn't have as many of the problems surrounding sex that we currently have.
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  kimberlyslyricsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  only cause most the actors are ugly, respectfully, otherwise there is nothing wrong with it and had a huge following [pun not intended]
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Nouveau Skepticposted 12 years ago
The internet gives them access, and I think more could be done about that.

But porn created by and accessed by adults is a complete non-issue.
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, I'll agree the Internet definitely changed things. The Porn Industry has grown huge and not only that, but individual people have their own sites, to promote themselves and they are not part and parcel of the Porn Industry but would be classified as Porn because of the sites they setup.
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  stclairjackposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  i wish we could have a rational converstaion/debate here about how the internet has changed the porn industry,... and how that in turn has changed the albeit hidden face of america,... but,.. there will always be right wing uptight hacks that want to beat that old broken drum,.... reason, logic and civility be damned.
  
  perhaps some other day,.... or forum post. ha! if only i had high speed and could keep up,.... i'd start the string my self.
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  It can be discussed in this thread considering it is related to the topic. Porn is porn whether or not it's on the Internet.
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  Jeff Berndtposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I seem to remember a news story from some years ago where the operator of an "adult" website was shut down by local authorities because his business violated "community standards." So his lawyer subpoenaed Google's search records for that area, and guess what? The most searched-for topic in the area was sexually explicit stuff, just like the stuff on the guy's website. Pretty funny, no?
  
  Alas, I can't seem to find a link.
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stclairjackposted 12 years ago
pornography has been changed forever by the internet,... now THATS a topic worth discussing,.... how access has changed the pornography industry.

but as a social issue,..... its nothing more than a busted drum that political hacks like to bang on in public,..... pun intended.
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gmwilliamsposted 12 years ago
To me, porn is a total nonissue. What consenting adults do is totally none of my business. There are more pressing issues such child abuse, sex trafficking, making the United States a total theocracy, and other related issues to think about and to remedy. Pornography is the least of my worries. I can take or leave it! Next!
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  
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Greekgeekposted 12 years ago
Actually, it's not totally harmless for participants, since there's a lot of top-down pressure against safe sex practices which are not what customers want to see. But I'd leave it up to those who are making a living doing porn to figure out what sorts of rules they need to protect their health.

However, I doubt anti-porn crusaders care diddly squat about the health of actors in the porn industry. They're just trying to police other people's personal lives, which is more inappropriate than the content they're fussing about.

Government has many pressing and complex problems that need solving. Porn is not one of them. If any politician is getting excited about porn, they have a problem. And it's OUR problem, because they're letting themselves get sidetracked from issues that actually impact their constituents.
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you Greekgeek.
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  twosheds1posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I've seen a couple of surveys that suggest that porn viewers don't have a problem with seeing safe sex practices on screen (I think it was specifically in reference to condoms). Personally, I watch porn (with my wife of 22 years, I might add), and I don't have a problem seeing actors using condoms, and frankly, if they integrated condom-donning into the action, I think it would make it more interesting.
  
  I think it may be that porn producers assume that viewers don't want to see safe sex without having any actual data on it. It may also be the case where the product can drive people's tastes; show more scenes with condoms and those who don't like to see them might change their tune.
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Deb Welchposted 12 years ago
I have had some personal scenarios regarding Porn. A few months ago
while being on Twitter - I was sent 'Porn'. I was offended and did not appreciate that person's freedom to make me feel badly plus angry. I contacted the Twitter Team - sent a copy of the Porn 'Tweeted' to me-
since nothing was done except to close my account and re-open within 30 days - I opted out - close permanently. If - once I came back in - the same thing could happen.
Also - just recently - a few weeks ago - searching for free clip
art photos on Bing.com - as a scrolled through ordinary photos
- all-of-a-sudden - porn photos were sprinkled throughout the
pages and they were raw! Guess who is not searching in Bing
anymore? I didn't need that - I didn't enjoy it and again I was
insulted and offended. How silly of me.
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Oh WOW!
  
  A live one.
  
  Let's see- question- why are you offended by porn?
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Nouveau Skepticposted 12 years ago
I don't think saying you were offended by some one sending you an explicit image is the same as being "offended by porn". If some person just sent porn to me out of the blue I would be freaked out. That has nothing to do with acquiring/viewing porn for yourself.
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habeeposted 12 years ago
I don't have a problem with porn as long as no kids or animals are involved.
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Good to know Habee!
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jacharlessposted 12 years ago
Ray,

I think the internet needs better regulatory measures regarding adult material.
Yahoo, back in the day, now Tweeter, SMB, even Search Engines are indeed being flooded with said material. I recently read a new measure was set up to move adult items into their own zone of website.xxx and such, which hopefully will reduce adult imagery, video and content from general searches. I am not offended by adult material, in general. I really never understood the purpose of searching the internet for sex, but that's just the geek in me. Howeaver, when searching for chocolate pudding cream pie recipes, I really do not want to see someone defecating in another human beings mouth with the remnant of oral sex dripping off down their face.

Strangely, had a client recently who is a huge advocate for naturism -not to be confused with naturalism- yet is completely against pornography. {His GF apparently is credited with starting the OWS movement}. Either way, he believes true natural nudity {naturism} is not exploitative and demeaning like pornography is. He further goes on to say that naturism is a non-sexual approach to living as humans once did. Unfortunately for him, that is a fair assessment. And has rendered his websites "porn" by every search engine and SEO collective.

James
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Hello James
  Okay, two things- (a) I agree on regulatory measures, but by whom? State and Federal are not equipped to handle it and they shouldn't. (b)The service providers are the ones who require regulations placed on them and the browsers have filters and mostly custom fit for browsing the Internet. Last time I checked, many OSs had built in features to aid in child restriction and children are actually locked out from doing things. But, kids nowadays access the Internet from their phones, so the only recourse is to enforce stricter regulations on the companies themselves. But, how do you stop individuals from setting up their own sites and offering video type porn action? Do you regulate them under the same rules? How would that work? I'm just trying to think it out. Again...who does the regulation?
  That would be interesting.
  Agreed.
  Interesting.
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  twosheds1posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  The .xxx top level domain is a brilliant idea, but the fundies are blocking it because they claim it gives them a stamp of approval. On the contrary, if they want to block porn, the .xxx domain makes it far, far easier, without blocking non-porn sites. It's a win-win. It's not going away, so why not work with it?
  
  I take issue with the exploitative and demeaning thing (I know you didn't say it). If we, say, ban everything we find exploitative and demeaning, pretty much everything in popular media would be banned. Personally, I find most sitcoms demeaning to men. Think about it: men are always portrayed as stupid, insensitive Philistines, whereas the women as protrayed as stalwart, hard-working, cultured victims of their brutish, boorish husbands.
  
  There are those who are truly exploited in the porn industry, and those people deserve protection and their exploiters prosecution, but I believe that those are the exception and not the rule. You can make plenty of money treating people fairly.
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  jacharlessposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I agree. Took nearly six years, but finally ICANN set up the domain.xxx as a TLD. This positions adult content sites in their own sector, freeing up the general TLD system quite nicely, imo. Now queries regarding adult material do not need to be not shown in general SERP, with standard filters in place. Eventually, it could clear up existing results and such -creating a new search engine all its own specifically dedicated to adult material. Google is spearheading this because YouTube adult content brings in billions from ad revenue on adult video content, something they were very much against at first.
  
  The idolization of female superiority at home, in the workplace and most especially in the consumer, fashion and sex industries is off the chart. Strangely enough, nearly every single upcoming actress has stripped down to nature, in semi to extremely sexually expressive poses, to all of a sudden become an overnight media sensation. For the most part, they are exploiting themselves. I think -but not certain- that a recent study said women were more apt to approve or vote for other women leaning toward adult related content, than a male. in short Hustler, Maxim, etc have more female than male readers between the ages of 25-35. No doubt, a sense of power, control, increased responsibility, dominance and popularity -not to forget a truck load of cash- comes with it. And since women largely control the media, I agree the idea of banning is not going to happen, nor should it. There are plenty of alternatives.
  
  James.
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  James, who are you talking to? Just curious. No 'quote' of the person who said what you're replying to.
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  jacharlessposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Not Myself -again, I swear it! Was responding to user: twosheds1
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Oh okay. Good to know.
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Shanna11posted 12 years ago
My issue with porn is more personal, I think. I knew a whole horde of guys from my high school who were absolutely disgusting-- sexually harassing me while hissing details about their latest porn viewing in my ears. One even went so far as to punch me while telling his friends about some violent porn he watched. It was vile.

It's a bit de-sensitizing in a way, I think. It makes guys look at women more like objects for instant gratification (and of course oppositely). Just my two cents.

The personal stuff out of the way, if the guy's a gentleman around me, I don't care what he does in his own time.
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Well, that just sucks. A prime example of poor upbringing.
  Yeah, I can see how that might be. I guess I don't look at that way. Having sex or watching sex is just enjoyable.
  So, that's a no on watching it. Okay.
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FatFreddysCatposted 12 years ago
Porn, like music, was better in the 80s.
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  Josakposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Augh all the hair (both in music and porn)
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  twosheds1posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Are you referring to the NINETEEN eighties?
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  Pearldiverposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Nope he wasn't.... He is 92 years old and running out of serious partners.... Not all old people get switched off at the wall when their pulse fluctuates above and below flat-line ya know!
  
  Get used to it... Baby Boomers know how to use lights and cameras.. even if their action doesn't always follow the plan!
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Wizard Of Whimsyposted 12 years ago
Pornography is one thing, but exploitation of young and innocent human beings is another . . .

http://youtu.be/GfSiOX6_QgY
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maxoxam41posted 12 years ago
Pornography is sex seen with a mechanical eye. Same routine, same coldness between partners, the language is explicit.... EVERYTHING but the truth, and the problem is that men reproduce the pornographic behavior and assume that women like it too.
Personally I get bored after 10mn. I have noticed that porn addicts are more likely to have been abused as a child.
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MelissaBarrettposted 12 years ago
As I stated in another thread it doesn't bother me that it exists. My underage kids don't access it because I parent. (I have an 18 year old and we have a don't ask don't tell rule in effect).

The only occasion when it was "forced" on me was when the idiots hacked into the youtube sesame street pages and replaced the videos with porn. That was fun... but it taught me to always pre-screen any videos that I was planning on using as part of lesson plans.

Getting links to it doesn't bother me any more than any other spam. I know how to use a delete button and I can't really see the use in getting all bent out of shape over a mouse click that takes a tenth of a second of my life.

That being said... It doesn't come in my house. My ex-husband had a quasi-addiction that stressed our marriage. The biggest thing was he compared me to the girls in the videos both appearance and submissiveness and I didn't live up to his fantasies. It screwed with my self-esteem quite a bit and made sure that he and his porn were rarely separated as he sure wasn't touching me anymore.

Funny me though I always contributed it to him being an ass rather than the porn industry. I told my hubby that it wasn't acceptable within our marriage before we got married. He was fine with that and so it's a non-issue. If he started watching it I'd divorce him... then it would still be a non-issue. Regardless... it's like everything else in this world. If you don't want it around you then don't let it around you but realize your desire for control should extend only that far. You can't police everyone else.
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maxoxam41posted 12 years ago
I don't see in what way any children or adolescent are prevented from seeing it? Free porn websites are available and accessible by everybody. They should be expensive to access therefore limited.
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  MelissaBarrettposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  It's called parenting.
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  maxoxam41posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  So how come children have access to it?
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  MelissaBarrettposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Parents that aren't doing their jobs?
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  maxoxam41posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Exactly or what about the freedom of the kids to go online without being imposed such a view?
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  MelissaBarrettposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Do you actually have children? It's called adult supervision. It's that neat little thing where you actually watch the children that you have produced. If you just hand them a computer and tell them to have fun then it is YOUR fault that they are viewing something you deem inappropriate. Stop expecting the world to raise YOUR children.
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  maxoxam41posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I don't have children. But new generations are smarter than the older one. You think that you can manage everything? My upbringing was strict, never did my parents know about what I was doing? Enough of your superwoman's qualities!
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  MelissaBarrettposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  The computer is in the living room where I am while my children are on it. No superwomen... just supervision. It's amazing that people associate actually supervising children with superhuman qualities.
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  stclairjackposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  melissabarrett,..... i think i love you! ha!
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  maxoxam41posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  No I assume that not everybody is a junkyard dog!
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  MelissaBarrettposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  If that's what you call parenting children then I guess *woof*. But then again... who's responsibility is it to raise my kids? Oh wait... It's mine. No the porn industries... not the governments... and it certainly isn't my kids' responsibility to raise themselves.
  
  So if I don't want my kids viewing porn then I should get mad at everyone else when they do? Rather than it being my fault for letting them do it in the first place?
  
  Nice! I can just pop them out now with no responsibility to them at all. I'm gonna go grab a beer now.
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  Josakposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  That is preposterous, you don't make something expensive to limit who can see it, parents should have porn blockers for young children (there are even free ones downloadable off the internet) as for adults not only do I think it should be legal I think in moderation it can be healthy too.
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  Shanna11posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  OMG. I hated porn blockers as a kid. Not because I was trying to look up porn or anything... but they blocked literally everything. I was trying to do research on starfish and half of the porn blockers my parents tried would block webpages about starfish. STARFISH.
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  maxoxam41posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  If you really want it you pay for it! When you want alcohol, you pay the premium! Porn should be the same. My interests go to children not adults! It is preposterous to you because you probably feel concerned and therefore personally attacked. But you pay for cigarettes, you pay for alcohol, porn should be at the same level!
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  maxoxam41posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  In what way porn is healthy?
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  Josakposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  A lot of people both male and female feel the need for physical release in one form or another, when pornography was taken out of US prisons violence jumped 20% and rapes jumped 50%. That kind of release which a person can achieve without harming anyone is healthy both for them mentally and for society at large, it's not just humans who practice self relief, all the higher animals do, aids to that purpose are not a bad thing.
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  maxoxam41posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  There are gentlemen's clubs... and no children around!
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  Josakposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Oh come off it, people don't go to gentleman's clubs for sexual release, they go because they find it titillating, or to impress their friends not to mention that those places are totally unaffordable
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  MelissaBarrettposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I really wanted information on how to bake a potato tonight. Should I have paid a site to get it?
  
  If the makers of alcohol wanted to give it away for free would you insist they charged for it?
  
  What an odd statement since it is the adults that are responsible for raising children. If they are doing their jobs then the kids never see porn. How simple is that?
  
  Which is funny since that statement in itself is a personal attack... and a bait that I'm hoping he doesn't rise to. You're trolling again hon.
  
  Same point as above... maybe I should repeat my answer with an exclamation point?
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  Josakposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Firstly it's literally impossible to make porn anything more than free, if the sites ar epay sites then all one person on the whole internet has to do is copy material from it onto free sites and bacm porn is fre again.
  
  Alcohol cost money because the people who make it want a profit, porn producers are still making a profit giving it away so it's fine.
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  junksellerposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  There are a multitude of ways of accessing the internet these days and a multitude of ways of getting around blockers, even when the blockers actually work. And even after all of that, you still have to contend with kids sharing stuff with each other. Judging from the disconnect I have seen between teens and their parents, I think most parents really have no idea what is out there and are vastly less competent with computers and the internet and communications in general.
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  maxoxam41posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Your views at least are realistic!
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  Josakposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  'Well then it's people intentionally seeking that material rather than stumbling on it and if that is the case I have no problem with them finding it, I was born almost six decades ago and got my first porn mag at the age of 12, kids seeing porn is nothing new, by the time I was 14 kids at school regularly swapped material, sexual curiosity is a part of growing up, look as far back as human civilisation goes and you will find finger drawn pornography on the walls of caves, it's sexual repression not sexual openness that leads to mental illness.
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  junksellerposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Actually there are a lot of accidental ways of stumbling upon it. And I agree, no one is terribly harmed by being curious and seeing naked bodies When I was stumbling upon porn when I was a kid it was mostly playboy style nudes. But nowadays, the content is far more graphic and often times much more violent. Exposure to a nude woman is one thing. A tied up lady surrounded by four guys who are smacking her and giving her a throat job is an entirely different thing (and that is still mild content).
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  Josakposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  What I mean is with a filter they are unlikely to stumble on anything which is too bad, I don't use a filter and I very rarely see anything explicit by accident, when I do it's never worse than a nude, if people go looking for other content then they will find it but they are making a conscious choice to do so and from then on it's OK in my books, as Melissa has been saying it also the responsibility of parents to supervise ids and to warn them about the content they might find.
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maxoxam41posted 12 years ago
Porn is the exploitation of vulnerable people to the profit of sick people. I don't see in what way to introduce a glass bottle in a woman's vagina is healthy? What do you project of the society you are living in?
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I can only assume that since you posted to the thread, that you were in fact talking to me, since I started the thread. If you post was to Melissa, then oh well, too bad. You failed to note who you were talking to.
  I guess that would depend on what exactly she does with the glass bottle, now doesn't it?
  I wouldn't mind world peace, but I don't project humanity has even reached the civilized stage yet, much less anything else.
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  MelissaBarrettposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  There is a whole series of questions that spring to mind about that quote. All that I can say on a public forum however is that I hope bottle rockets are out of the question.
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  maxoxam41posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  The subject is treated lightly, nothing surprising there? What about the girl that is submitted to that? Is she fully consenting? Who cares right?
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  Josakposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yes she is fully consenting other wise it's a crime, when rapes occur then it's probably not going to be in front of a camera, if it is then all the better that the evidence is on tape.
  
  Besides what do you mean the woman who submitted? I know a few women who enjoy being filmed in that way and I even know a woman who put herself through uni doing porn, who are you or I to tell anyone be they men or women what they can and can't do? and what they can and can't enjoy?
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  MelissaBarrettposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  How insulting to women you are. Do you believe that we all walk around letting glass bottles be put into our vagina because someone told us to? If it was forced she has plenty of evidence for criminal charges. If it wasn't I assume she was paid quite well... as it would take quite a paycheck to convince me to do the same.
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  maxoxam41posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  What about teenagers forced to do it? Is pornography that reductive? Or your world of pornography?
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  MelissaBarrettposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I don't have a world of pornography... but again if anyone is forced to do it then they've got evidence for criminal charges. In addition it then is criminal to display the tape.
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  maxoxam41posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Ah, our friend Josak is an expert, he has an answer to all problems created by porn. Don't worry I will keep the secret!
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  Josakposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  My secret? that that I have watched porn? go scream it to the rooftops for all I care and I am not the slightest bit ashamed nor do I consider it a weakness it's simply something I enjoyed in my youth always in healthy measures, I worked on cargo ships for a few years for example and we often went a month without seeing land or a woman. I think the weakness is those who don't have the mental capacity to see and accept that material without getting offended or who think that the rest of the world needs to be protected from something they choose to do and see.
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  Josakposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  If by teenagers you mean people under the age of 18 then that's a crime and now there is evidence, if you mean women over the age of 18 then they are old enough to make their own personal choices
  18 USC 2257 Compliant is the certification that all US made porn has to get which not only shows evidence that the participants are over 18 but has signed consent form.
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  Josakposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  +1
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  junksellerposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  What would you consider being paid well? I've seen pretty extreme scenes paying $300-$400 (i.e. no condoms, multiple partners). At that rate to live off you are looking at 80 scenes or so a year.
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  MelissaBarrettposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry to sound harsh here but if you choose that rather than a straight job where it takes a week to make that much... then um... it's kinda your choice.
  
  *edit... As far as being paid well it would take quite a bit more than that for me personally...but hey to each their own.
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  Josakposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Agreed, there are people who do worse for fun and for free
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  kirstenblogposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Hey Melissa, not sure how the glass bottle got introduced into this conversation even tho I just finished reading the thread. Anyway, I thought I might point out that a big pay check might not even be needed in order for a girl to be willing to use a bottle for... er... play. A few years back here in the UK we had this show on channel 4 (one of the 5 main channels for the UK) called Big Brother, they aired it during prime time just about every night of the week, sometimes live. Anyway, one participant on the show did in fact use a glass bottle in the hot tub to 'play' with herself, it sorta rocketed her into fame, the tabloids LOVED her. No one told her to do anything of the sort nor did they promise her a paycheck, she simply got it into her head that it might make her famous and thats what she wanted most I guess.
  
  I do find it funny that people seems to think that porn is responsible for men treating women like objects. Men have been doing that through out most of history and they didn't strictly speaking need porn to encourage them to. Monetary gain was often enough. At least with porn the woman gets a slice of the money pie, guess thats why so many have problems with it. Women exploiting horny men for their money, not as good as, men exploiting other horny men while at the same time exploiting women too.
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  MelissaBarrettposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Max brought the glass bottle into it. It's apparently something he ran across while doing his distasteful but necessary research on why porn was bad...
  
  Wow... it was her thing eh? Like I said to each their own.
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  kirstenblogposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I am reminded of Mary Whitehouse, she too worked hard to view EVERYTHING that the rest of us should be 'protected' from.
  
  The Big Brother contestant oddly became a much loved part of pop culture here. Not sure thats a good thing!
  She came back for celebrity BB and got in hot water for racial abuse toward a bollywood star on that year. Big drama.
  Sadly it came to an end with her dying from cancer, I think thats why she became a much loved celeb. Simply because it brought the need to screen early for cancer to young women so they don't miss it until it's too late.
  What a weird bit of info to be sharing but there you go. They say it takes all sorts, this world of ours. Sure does is all I can say!
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  MelissaBarrettposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  On a side note... do you realize how many times your posts have sent me to google and wiki?
  
  Mrs. Whitehouse sounds absolutely charming
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  kirstenblogposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  LOL, your welcome!
  I have loved learning about british culture since moving to the UK. If you wanna know who the big brother contestant I was talking about, its Jade Goody. Back then I couldn't go to work and not hear about BB this and BB that, so glad that show is not popular anymore.
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  kirstenblogposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Goodness, my mistake, it wasn't Jade who had the fun with a bottle, she did have some sort of sexual scandal tho. The bottle was someone I don't actually remember all that much, Kinga. Oh well, guess my half interest in the show (so as to know what everyone was on about at work) shows in my combining 2 people in my memory into just the one.
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maxoxam41posted 12 years ago
Boring here, two alternatives either you become a CERBERUS like Melissa or you accept your weakness like Josak!
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maxoxam41posted 12 years ago
Being 18 guarantees that women do it freely! I love living in your world!
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  Josakposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Obviously you did not read my comment as i pointed out the 18 compliant has two parts, the 18 and the compliant they have to be 18 and they have to have signed a consent form.
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maxoxam41posted 12 years ago
Thanks for the interpretation, I did not understand what she was saying. However the problem is still there, children have ACCESS to it!
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  MelissaBarrettposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  On what? The computer they bought with their own money in the house they live in by themselves?
  
  Oh yeah... the computer that their parents own that is under their parents roof. Children have no access to it unless they are allowed to have access to it. That... once again... is the responsibly of the people who are raising them.
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  junksellerposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Their phone; their ipad; their friends phones, ipads, computers; school computers...
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  MelissaBarrettposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  What phone? The phone the parents bought? What Ipad? The one they are allowed to use without supervision? What friends? The ones who the parent's know nothing about and also know nothing about their parents? Don't get me started on the school thing... that's another discussion.
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  +100
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  junksellerposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I'm not doubting your specific parenting or the need for good parenting. My only point is to say that in general parents know less about their kids activities than they think. This has been true probably since the caveman days. I suspect it is more true now than ever. The technological difference between generations is enormous. I still know some parents who don't even know how to turn on a computer.
  
  You may limit the access your kids have to phones, computers, etc. and very closely monitor who they are friends with, the reality is that many kids DO have phones, ipods, laptops, etc. and I really think many parents really don't even realize the access those devices give them. I also suspect that schools are far less secure than most parent believe and schools these days are packed with access points. That isn't a criticism of parenting. Some parents simply do not have the technical competence to understand the issue.
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  MelissaBarrettposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  That's unfortunate but does the ignorance of the parents really mean that the porn industry should be responsible for what their children see?
  
  That's a pretty dangerous precedent.
  
  The school conversation is one that I don't want to really get too deeply into because it would end up being a hi-jack. I home-school until I feel my children are able to 1. make the decision that they WANT to go to public school and 2. Are capable enough to have their own views without being indoctrinated into biased teaching.
  
  Do I think schools can handle adequately supervising with the current student to teacher ratios? Hell no. But then again I also see sending children to public school as parents choosing to let someone else raise their children. Once you have allowed that then you really can't complain that someone else is raising your children in a way you don't like.
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  junksellerposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I don't know. I didn't really say I had an answer. The original question was what's wrong with porn. My answer to that has been in part that children have too much access to it. I suspect that the legitimate porn industry isn't really the problem. For monetary reasons, they already have an interest in controlling access to their material. The real problem is all the shadowy entities which steal and copy content and than try to stick it everywhere and anywhere they can to make a buck. This is of course a problem which goes well beyond porn, and I honestly have no clue what to do about it. I would think the industry would want to do a better job about it though. If they don't, the government may swoop in with a 'solution' that is terrible for everyone.
  As for schools, I doubt many schools tell parents that their porn filters aren't very good, so even if a parent does their due diligence and asks about them, they don't have a reason not to believe the school and they won't have the technical understanding to know how the filters work (and don't work). Again, I don't have an answer, I just think it is an issue worth working on.
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  Josakposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Which to my mind is more of an issue of why do we give kids I phones and i pads
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Exactly! I know.....oh I know...can I say?
  
  FEAR!
  
  Yep, there's so much distortion and misinformation out floating around, people having problems discerning truth from almost anyone else. The side effect is paranoia, fear, must be safe mentality, when it cannot ever be fully achieved to begin with because you would have to be the only living person on the planet for it to be guaranteed, and guess what folks, that's not happening.
  
  All courtesy of your neighborhood State political officers, general media and the largest distortion factory in the world- Congress. Btw- there was a little religion fear mongering in there too.
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stclairjackposted 12 years ago
thank you cags for this thread,.... it was, without a doubt, the best damn thing i've read all night!,... quite possibly even saved my night! ha! i gigled wildly reading through this.

on a personal note,.... porn did wreak havock with my first marrige,.... not because pornography is inherantly bad but because my first husband was a juvinile unrealistic idget,.... i'm being kind. to take the concepts, imagry and physics displayed in most run of the mill pornography and try and apply them to real life is just idiotic. imagine his chagrin when i pointed this out to him after years of enduring his pubescant tantrums.

i do NOT live with a secret porn stash in my home anymore,... no more boxes under the bed,.... thats what flash drives are for after all! ha!

for my own purposes i will admit to cruising the e-universe in search of somethin visual to,.... how was it one poster here put it,.... ah yes,.... achieve a release. hee hee. i'm even willing to admit to having a small collection on the aformemtioned flash drive..... no ones concer but mine.

should children be seeing this? NO,... but as one other poster possesing what some might call super powers put it,..... "be a parent"

once again,.... thank you soooooooooo much for this cags,.... laughing my ass off reading through this at it evolves,......

we all knew it would get better as it got later in the night! HA!
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  Josakposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I loved this comment
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maxoxam41posted 12 years ago
It's not as if Melissa didnot write in English.
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maxoxam41posted 12 years ago
It explains why you are defending it with such a fervor! It is interesting though that you refer to the past as for your porn experience! Not anymore right?
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  Josakposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Well actually I would defend it regardless as Voltaire is falsely credited with saying "I disagree with what you say but would gladly die for your right to say it" I feel that way about many things. As for not any more well I don't know how old you are but at my age those impulses start to wane and I am happily married
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maxoxam41posted 12 years ago
How many women are exploited by men and vice-versa? So far, she did it on her own! She is definitely a w---e! I'm talking about the ones that are EXPLOITED! Is that hard to understand? "Interesting" choice of show, you are watching!
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  Josakposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  That comment was far more offensive to women than any pornography I have ever seen or heard of.
  
  One could argue that everyone is exploited when they work, I sure felt exploited sometimes after working down a mine 50 hours a week but we do it to get paid, to each their own.
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  MelissaBarrettposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  The art of trolling is such that you try to get everyone else banned but yourself.
  
  Epic fail for max.
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maxoxam41posted 12 years ago
Interesting, you are right and she looked like you! Is it a coincidence? The one who just think about her own children. The others, who cares! What a selfish stand!
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  Josakposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  No the selfish stand is the one that argues that we should protect others from themselves and take away the choices of others based on our own beliefs.
  
  I also se nothing wrong with having fun with a bottle is it supposed to offend us?
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  MelissaBarrettposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  She looked like me? No wonder she was so popular then
  
  I raise my own children. I'm not responsible for the parenting choices of others.
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  Shanna11posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Hahahahahahahahha.... you were the one who wanted to be sister wives, right?
  
  Hahaha I hope that offer still stands..... Lol
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  MelissaBarrettposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  *Smiles*
  
  Sure but you've got to take hubby for... oh say the next 3 months... or years. Whatever.
  
  I just want a book and a hot tub that I can actually fit in and get out of without having to use a crane.
  
  Hey! Maybe I should do some pregnant porn...
  
  wow... I actually made myself gag.
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  stclairjackposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  lol!
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maxoxam41posted 12 years ago
You were the one who said it was healthy Josak. I was giving an example to demonstrate in what way it was healthy. You did not answer yet!
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  Josakposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Actually I did respond:"A lot of people both male and female feel the need for physical release in one form or another, when pornography was taken out of US prisons violence jumped 20% and rapes jumped 50%. That kind of release which a person can achieve without harming anyone is healthy both for them mentally and for society at large, it's not just humans who practice self relief, all the higher animals do, aids to that purpose are not a bad thing."
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maxoxam41posted 12 years ago
That's how you justify it?
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maxoxam41posted 12 years ago
As I said it earlier, no way out here! No attempt to solve the problem.
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stclairjackposted 12 years ago
Lets see,… how could fun with a bottle be healthy,…

1),… it holds booze,…. Preferably rum

2) …. If its plastic you can fill it with water and freeze it to keep your cooler cold,… save the earth, go green,.. Blah blah blah

3)…. You could heat it with a torch and make a bong,… not that I’m into that, i prefer rum.

4)…. You could use it as a phallus and film it for internet viewing for those who might find it accidentally while google searching for “things to do with a bottle when your bored”….. not that I’m into that.

I’ll take the rum,…. Captain please,… room temp.
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  Josakposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  But once done with the rum...
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  stclairjackposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  5) hang the bottles wind chime fashion to decorate with the "early american white trash" motif,.... its the latest rage.
  
  and who's "done" with the rum?
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  stclairjackposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  6) fill the bottles with varying amounts of water and play a concerto by "blowing" on them,............................................. your welcome
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  Josakposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  So many good ideas
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  MelissaBarrettposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I know right... someone should make a hub.
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  stclairjackposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  so max wonder boy can actualy FIND something next time he googles "what to do with bottles when your bored"????
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  Josakposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  That would be great, I googled it with safe search off and it was dull as anything.
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  MelissaBarrettposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Seriously... what keywords would it have taken to find that particular bit of porn imagery? How does one accidentally stumble across it? I have to admit to being tempted to search just out of morbid curiosity.
  
  Oh... nevermind... curiosity gone.
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  Josakposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  
  That's what I found that face is priceless. Who knew vodka bottles are so versatile.
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  MelissaBarrettposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I don't want to live on this planet anymore.
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  stclairjackposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  bff worked in ER of rural midwest hosp,..... the stroies oh the stories,...... just "items inserted into orafices" alone could fill a book. the excuses given by the poor dumb sobs are priceless,.... "i fell while playing pool naked,.. i have no idea how the cue ball wound up there".......................... sure man.
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  stclairjackposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  goodnight every body,.... its been,.... educational
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  stclairjackposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  wait,..... gallon glass jug, rubber band and large baloon,.... knock those sick thoughts off,..... its how you make home made booze
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  stclairjackposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  i have a friend that breaks beer bottles in pieces and tumbles them to polish them,... then drills and strings them as necklaces,.... recovering alcoholics actualy like these. my ex is having a bracelet made out of beer bottles,.... i personaly want a neclace made out of sky vodka bottles,... nice color of blue,.... but i detest vodka
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  
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Cagsilposted 12 years ago
Boy did this turn out to be humorous.
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stclairjackposted 12 years ago
3 wine bottles, length of rope, 4 feet of garden hose and a roll of duct tape,..... no,..... wait,..... i signed a gag order on that,...... never mind.
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  
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prettydarkhorseposted 12 years ago
Internet pornography specially addiction to it puts a toll in relationship with a partner specially if they disapprove of it.

The body is reduced to the essence of the flesh - mostly women!
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  A Thousand Wordsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Women gawk at men and their abs, biceps, and the like all the time. "Look at hunk of a man!" Men do the same thing. It's human nature. Only the special person in your life will probably attract you at all different levels, or at least they should, otherwise it may not last.
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  Josakposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  +100
  
  The fact of the matter is sometimes sex is just carnal, hopefully everyone has had a deep and meaningful, beautiful sexual experience but even with our closest partners I believe we are lying if we say it is always like that, sometimes sex is just lust and there is nothing wrong with that, pornography caters to that and there is nothing wrong with that either.
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Nouveau Skepticposted 12 years ago
We managed to have sensible methods for dealing with access to adult movies, magazines etc. When it comes to the internet the same controls need to be installed on the user's end such as by "net nanny" software.
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MelissaBarrettposted 12 years ago
I've seen the word exploited come up over and over... I'm not sure that one can be exploited voluntarily. I think if they regret making porn then they need to chalk that up to bad decision making... and honestly I think it takes away from personal responsibility to blame someone else for bad decision making except the person who made the decisions.

12 year olds engaged in child labor is one thing... consenting adults who choose to have sex while being filmed is quite another.

I think that making victims out of adults who enter knowingly into their actions and are paid for them is a bit... well... silly.
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  A Thousand Wordsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  And anyone would be silly to disagree with that. However, the problem that I have is with those that do it involuntarily, who go unnoticed because it looks like they're "enjoying" it. I'm not watching any currently, but I remember being online and passing over a video where the girl looked high (like cocaine or some kind of opiate high) and I it crossed my mind that she may be one of those trafficked girls who are drugged in order to perform more and protest less. She may not have been, but the idea still haunts me. And then the advertisements on the sides with girls who barely look 16, forget 18. It just pains me to think that we could be getting jollies from a girl/young woman in a porn who'd rather be anywhere else doing anything else, but doesn't have a choice.
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  recommend1posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Thinking that just because someone is old enough makes them adult and so not prone to being a victim is a little sillier.
  
  Thinking that many of the participants are not being exploited is sillier still.
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
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  twosheds1posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Why is it sillier? Like I said above, one can make plenty of money in porn without exploiting people. I don't have any data to back it up, but I expect exploitation is the exception rather than the rule. That doesn't mean that women aren't forced into it, I just don't think it happens as often as anti-porn crusaders would have us believe.
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  recommend1posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I am not any kind of anti-porn crusader, I just happen to have a personal opinion that flooding all communication with images and video of activities that are regarded by every culture as 'taboo' except between people in private. is clearly counter to reason.
  
  You expect exploitation is the exception, but I believe most definately otherwise. And expoitation is not just the in yer face grab a girla nd rape her for the camera style of activity, althoug this happens, or the shipping in of girls stolen in various coutries to be used as sex slaves. Economic pressure pushes people into this game in the same way as it pushes people into prostitution. I refuse to accept that the effects on the individual performers are not a mjor problem either, I can't see any mother telling her kids that she works by sucking multiple sex bits while her various orifice are probed by multiple people, and 3 times a day ! and if nobody would admit to such a job, then how can anyone say it is ok !
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  twosheds1posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  But sex slavery is not the same as the mainstream porn industry. They are entirely different. As to what makes people want to do porn, I think there are as many reasons there are performers, and it would be wrong to say there is one reason why. "Economic pressure" pushes people into every job, not just porn, and it's really only because we (in the US) have such a puritainical, sex-negative society that people would feel that working in porn would be negative.
  
  Re: mom telling her kids, by the time the kids are old enough to be told, mom would probably no longer be performing, but I've seen and read interviews with older porn actresses and they have all been fairly positive about their careers and have no problems telling their children. That doesn't mean they're being totally honest, I'll grant you, but I wonder, where are the Linda Lovelaces of today? Porn is far different today than it was 30 - 40 years ago. There's a documentary called "The Secret Lives of Porn Stars" that features interviews with several performers that detail how they got into it and what they think of what they do. It's available on Netflix. There is nudity, but no sex.
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  junksellerposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  How about the Pink Cross Foundation http://thepinkcross.org
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  Jeff Berndtposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Better not let 18-year-olds have credit cards or join th Army, either, then.
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Jeff Berndtposted 12 years ago
Well, I look at it like this:

If you're going to look at pr0n, do it in private, and wash your hands afterwards.

If you're going to make pr0n, you'd better be sure that every single person you're working with is an informed, competent, consenting adult human being who can walk away at any time they change their mind about wanting to do it. 'Cos if you make pr0n with someone who doesn't fall into the informed competent consenting adult category, you're a horrible person who deserves to die slowly and painfully.

If you don't want your kids to see pr0n before they're grown up, then do like Melissa does, and pay attention to what they're doing. It's called being a parent.

Pro-tip: It would also probably help keep the pr0n away from the kids if you don't leave it hidden around your house. Most of the pr0n I saw when I was a tween was found in someone's parents' (badly) hidden pr0n library.

If you want to raise kids who don't need or want pr0n, it might help to have frank, informed, and non-condemning talks with them about sex, what it's for, what can happen when you have it, and why it's a good idea not to have it until you're prepared to deal with those potential consequences. You'll probably want to have that conversation while your kid still thinks you're worth listening to, that is, before he turns fifteen (your mileage may vary).

Finally, I think it's really really funny that so many "small government conservatives" are in favor of banning or criminalizing pr0n0gr@phy, even when it only involves consenting adults. I thought that government control was bad, and that people should be responsible for themselves?
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  +1
  
  And to the end of your statement, yes responsibility is dictated by others as it seems and yet these same people wonder why people continue to place blame on other things avoiding responsibility for their own actions because their actions are guided by someone's else dictation.
  
  Funny and sad at the same time. Irony I guess.
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  junksellerposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  One of the issues that people have been bringing up is essentially questioning whether young girls can EVER be truly informed and consenting. How many 18 yr olds do you know who fully understand the potential (and sometimes serious) consequences of making porn? How many really understand what they are being asked to do compared to the generally small amounts of money they will make from it? I don't know any, and I hate to say it, but at the same time, most seem to think they know everything. Being concerned about this issue, doesn't automatically make someone a fascist who wants the government to come in and regulate the industry. And actually, I don't think anyone here who has expressed concern about the consequences of porn has said anything about regulation, banning, or censorship.
  
  It seems flippant to suggest that our only two options are a porn free-for-all and the heavy boot of the government. We are a society still aren't we? Can we not as a society tell our young girls that porn may not be such a good idea? Can we not at least recognize that a great deal of the porn out there is specifically and intentionally about defiling young girls and that there is something unhealthy about that? I don't really have a solution. I am opposed to censorship, but that doesn't mean there isn't a problem.Melissa seems to be in a very small subset of the population who not only homeschools, but also controls all potential access points to the internet. The other, probably, 99% of kids go to school and have phones, laptops, ipads, game consoles, etc. which means that all of these kids have potentially unmonitored access points to the internet. It isn't about good parent/bad parent. It is about the physical reality of the world we live in combnied with the general lack of technical knowledge many parents have regarding the internet.The belief held by parents today that porn is successfully hidden away from their children is as ridiculously wrong as how well our parents thought their porn stashes were hidden from us.
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  MelissaBarrettposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Please don't think that I am saying I'm a better parent than anybody else. I'm sure I'm just screwing my kids up in a different way. What I am saying is that when that screw up makes itself clear I'm not going to blame the home-school community as it is not their job to raise my kids.
  
  If parents are unsavy when it comes to internet knowledge then it's kinda their responsibility to learn. Just the same as parents aren't born with any inate knowledge on how to change diapers or give baths. These are things they have to educate themselves on to care for their children. Is learning about the devices your kids use any different? That way you can make choices between- for example- the cell phone that simply makes phone calls (they make those you know) and the one that has web capabilities.
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  Nouveau Skepticposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Indeed. A child will increasingly access the internet, the real world and other people without your direct presence. Parenting is a combination of managing access and then creating safe behavior rules. Nothing is perfectly safe but TV and Internet are ultimately going to be regulated at the consumer device not the transmitter. We have to adapt.
  
  Distributing devices with build in content managers accessible only to the adult who purchased them would help.
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  twosheds1posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Most content managers are worse than useless. I tried Net Nanny on my PC, and it blocked all sorts of stuff that had no connection to sex whatsoever, such as Bulbapedia, the Wikipedia of Pokemon. It also blocked Hotmail and the web site of the university I work at.
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  junksellerposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Well, I think you sound like a terrific parent. Not necessarily because you do everything right (who does) but because you seem to work hard at trying to do so. I didn't intend to imply that you had a Greatest-Parent-Alive attitude. On the contrary, you always seem very fair and reasoned.I think there is a significant difference between diapers/baths and modern day communications. Diapers/baths is a relatively simple lesson that doesn't really change much. Modern day communications, however, are complex, constantly changing, and have in a single generation gone from talking through phones connected to hardlines to talking through multiple portable devices which can connect to a multitude of access points.
  
  Think about it another way. If you had to teach a class to parents who knew nothing of the topic, how long would the class be to teach bathing/diaper changing versus teaching them about modern day communication technologies and devices? An hour versus a week? And how often would you have to take an updated class? For diapers, never, for communications maybe every year. I don't know, but I do think that technological change has outstripped the ability of parents to keep up in a way which is unprecedented.
  
  The other issue is that bathing/diapers is something which parents obviously need to know. If a school tells parents that their computers have a porn blocker on them, do the parents have any reason to doubt that they work? Or consider a parent who restricts access to their own home router. Do they know that just about anybody these days can usually access multiple routers from nearby households (many of which are open)? So, how do parents even know what they need to know?
  
  Sorry to harp on this, it is probably beginning to be a bit annoying. And I could be entirely wrong, it isn't like I have presented any hard evidence. Mostly this is just from my own experience talking to kids and parents. I am just always surprised by the disconnect between what parents think they know and the reality. Some parents, like you, have a good grasp of the issue, but there really are others who don't ever even turn on a computer.
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  Jeff Berndtposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  One of the issues that people have been bringing up is essentially questioning whether young girls can EVER be truly informed and consenting. How many 18 yr olds do you know who fully understand the potential (and sometimes serious) consequences of making porn?
  Well, when a person turns 18, we let them vote, sign legally binding contracts, join the Army, etc. Should we add an exception that prohibits them from participating in certain contracts? How do we decide?
  
  Though, an exception wouldn't be unprecedented: it varies by state, but in most of the US, even if you're a legal adult, you can't buy or consume alcohol until you're 21 years old (even though you can do everything else a legal adult may do).
  
  And a 12 year old pays the adult admission price at the movies, but they aren't allowed to see all the movies an actual adult would be allowed to see (PG-13, R, NC-17).
  
  We have some very inconsistent ideas about when someone achieves "adulthood," and what adulthood really means. It also doesn't help that some people are more mature and responsible at 15 than some others are at 50.
  
  But we do need to have some kind of objective definition of adulthood, otherwise nobody would be able to be sure of whether a given contract is binding or not.
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  junksellerposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I don't know, I feel kind of the same about signing our 18 yr old boys up to be soldiers. Who is ever really prepared for that? I guess they do have the ROTC. Maybe we should have an equivalent for our girls. The PSTC (Porn Stars Training Corps). They could hold afterschool programs where strange men walk in off the street smack them around a bit and then rototill their anuses.
  
  I don't have an answer. All I know is that I have never known an 18 yr old I thought was really equipped to make that decision, nor have I ever known one that I would want to make that decision. A part of me wouldn't mind restricting performing in porn to people over 21, but the other part of me just suspects that that would result in driving more of it into the shadows which could be even worse. Ultimately the problem is that a great deal of the demand is specifically and intentionally for young innocent girls. The violation we should not want to happen is the violation many specifically seem to seek.
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  twosheds1posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Don't have any data to back it up, but I suspect that is porn is banned (which will probably never happen), it will be driven underground and exploitation will increase exponentially.
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RonH56posted 12 years ago
Many people say that porn is a victimless crime. I say what about those kids who are bought like a slave and forced into it? What about the six year old who was sodomized and raped by a fourteen year old who learned about these things from playboy magazine? He did everything to her that he read about! What about women who are taken off the streets of other countries and forced into prostitution and pornography? Some say it happens here too. We are affected by what we see. I still remember the sick porn movies one of my past room mates used to watch. I have tried to forget pictures that I have seen of dead kids on CNN and magazines from terrorist acts. If what we see doesn't affect us, they why do companies pay to put up billboards, or advertise in magazines, or TV?
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  If you take Porn Industry and all the nasty garbage that comes with it, then yes they would be wrong. But, legitimate Porn has consenting adults who make the decision to enter the field, by whatever reasons.
  Yes, this is understood. No one is disputing it. The fact that you said kids are bought like a slave is an entirely different topic- that's called child trafficking. Which is illegal and shouldn't make Porn the culprit for that behavior. Child trafficking has been happening for much longer than Porn has been around.
  Really? Now, you're definitely in my territory. I have 20 years worth of those books and NOWHERE does it advocate what you're implying or attempting to attach to a Reputable Name, such as Playboy.
  
  The article about that young boy didn't get his ideas from Playboy Magazine, he got it from Porn, as it was claimed. Playboy Magazine isn't Porn. Never has been deemed Porn by any stretch of the imagination. Hugh Hefner guaranteed readers it would not be subjected to Porn, but to beautiful women the world has to offer.
  Actually, he duplicated what he watched. So, that means he had access to child porn of some sort. How did he get access child porn?
  Yes, there are plenty of places around the world where people think it's okay to do that. There's no disputing it. But, legitimate Porn isn't that. Again, this distracts from the original post I started. This is again human trafficking.
  It's possible. If people can get body parts in the U.S. then I don't see how stealing women from the streets wouldn't possible.
  In more ways than I care to count or attempt to explain.
  Yet again, distraction.
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  twosheds1posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  That's not really a valid argument. Kids are forced to work in factories in China and Central America, does that mean we should stop factories everywhere? Of course not. Sex trafficking is a problem and it needs to stop, but the mainstream adult industry is not the same as the sex trafficking industry.
  
  Do you have a source for the 14-year-old learning to rape from Playboy? I call BS.
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Druid Dudeposted 12 years ago
Child porn. That is #1 on my list. Kids get cigarettes, marijuana and other illegal stuff. Porn adds to the problem. Bizarre B.S. encourages bizarre behavior.
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recommend1posted 12 years ago
Computer savvy people here seem to be totally naive in regard to internet access that their own children can get with little or no trouble - thinking that nanny net is the answer is as naive as those non-computerised 'normal' people who are not even aware that their kids can access the most depraved stuff on the net on their iphone.

Turning a blind eye to how educated kids can get anything they choose is an unjustified legitimisation of porn, in the same way that junkie parents are generally the unwitting providers of their own childrens habits (and often their kids friends, who can easily be your own kids).
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jacharlessposted 12 years ago
...oh, and there is NO regulation for mobile, at all.
Millions are getting hammered by malware ads, and their personal info, contacts harvested using downloaded legit apps from Apple & Andoid. RIM/Blackberry not so much. FYI, Pornographic ads on mobile are presently the highest paying. Even #FB is considering an adult sector for their social network -specifically geared toward adult content- because the ads pay so well. The FED won't stop it because: a. they are porn hounds themselves and b. tax revenue from ads is free money.
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Interesting James. Thank you.
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logic,commonsenseposted 12 years ago
For an interesting perspective on sex, one should read the Robert Heinlein novel about Maureen Johnson, the mother [?] of Lazarus Long. It will turn many on their ear!
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schoolgirlforrealposted 12 years ago
For me personally it's not an issue.
and btw, I don't collect issues either
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  kimberlyslyricsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  ditto
  
  however it is an issue that our kids can watch hard core porn for free on their phones, being undetected or under mom's radar.
  
  But if I had to make a choice I'd rather them watching than doing. But possibly it could create interest and get physical quickly. Kids have enough trouble on this confusing topic feeling lost whether they should be in the yes or no zone.
  
  Adults shouldn't have issue unless it becomes an addiction. We know it escalates and there is some pretty rough stuff out there, then what is next?
  
  I think more women secretly then men watch porn, just an opinion from conversations with people my age.
  
  If kept to couples, regardless of marital status, it certainly enhances sex unless it is abused.
  
  I would monitor my child's phone history browser and keep them as safe as possible until they are of age and educated to make their own decisions. I would encourage couples to share in an experience and see if it fits. [pun not intended]
  
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Pearldiverposted 12 years ago
Oh Kim.... come on.... puns were banned in the industry years ago! I believe they replaced them with buns!

How are you mate?
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  kimberlyslyricsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  3rd book so exhausted I hope you were well, and that was not a pun [when moderation is being considering] PD is a big Pun watcher.
  miss ya mate my warrior!
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  kimberlyslyricsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Is it weird I play with your avatar in PS? Fun colours, can't be held accountable
  
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SomewayOuttaHereposted 12 years ago
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  kimberlyslyricsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
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kimberlyslyricsposted 12 years ago
I saw some porn with a red helmet? odd but no issue here
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  bbnixposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I'm totally innocent (well, not really...but hey I am delusional)
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  kimberlyslyricsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  of course it was someone else
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  kimberlyslyricsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Just realized I'm wearing a red helmet
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  bbnixposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Oh ok...I confess....i'm the illegitimate child of Charles Manson and Ron Jeremy....
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  kimberlyslyricsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  eeeeeweeeeee jeremy gives me a rash from the ultra large flat screen tv!
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kimberlyslyricsposted 12 years ago
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kimberlyslyricsposted 12 years ago
GUN PORN

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  bbnixposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Oh yeah...we want the government to control everything...
  
  and I have never afraid of my son being exposed to something given I was allways there to openly discuss the complexities of it, good and bad, and I sure as hell don't need anyone or any thing interfering with that....
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  kimberlyslyricsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  um, OK thanks!
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kimberlyslyricsposted 12 years ago
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  schoolgirlforrealposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  
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kimberlyslyricsposted 12 years ago
um why is this image almost first in googles image search of Porn?

We definately need to look further into IKEA

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  bbnixposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Of course...you don't get any more phallic than a big blue building with I...ke....A on it...and we all know what that means....
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  kimberlyslyricsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  that's what I thought
  
  born for porn eating corn
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  schoolgirlforrealposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  you were searching for porn on google?! Naughty Naughty
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  kimberlyslyricsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
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  recommend1posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Maybe because the latest info on IKEA is that all those cute and semi-useless wooden things are being cut out of the last remaining ancient forests in Russia from trees generally around 600 years old. Reported in some-of-us.org
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kimberlyslyricsposted 12 years ago
It's all fun and games until the top snaps down and your stuck in a shell!

not working team, I'm being good too!
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  bbnixposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Uh..some of us are stuck in shells not by choice...
  
  I would suggest many who are not deserve to be...
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  kimberlyslyricsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  hell!
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  kimberlyslyricsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  
  trying again
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kimberlyslyricsposted 12 years ago
Oh I need time and inspiration

Cags just a bit of clean fun, we'll try really hatd to let your thread return to regular programming
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  bbnixposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I haven't been regular since Jimmy Carter was president....
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calankimballposted 12 years ago
Let me ask you a question: If you had a daughter (maybe you do, maybe you don't. I don't know), would you want her to be involved in the porn industry? Why or why not?
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  twosheds1posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  No, I wouldn't, because I'd want her to do something a little more meaningful with her life. I also wouldn't want her to be a model, participate in beauty pageants, or play with Barbies.
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  MelissaBarrettposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Good luck with the Barbie thing. I apparently can keep porn away from my kids with much more ease than keeping a Barbie away from a three-year old. I think she has established a breeding program in one of her toy-boxes. I hate the retched things too but she keeps acquiring them from those who feel it's some kind of necessity for being raised with a uterus.
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  A Thousand Wordsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I don't know if this is only for Cagsil to answer but I want to give my two cents. Forgive me I'm on my iTouch if anything is strangely autocorrected. Anyway, I allow my daughter the freedom to choose any path she desired because she is separate human being with the ability and right to make her own decisions. Now I certainly would voice my opinion on the matter, which are the physical dangers of porn. But i intend to raise my child boy or girl, with a food sense of self, understanding how healthy it to be human, to be nonjudgmental and to take care of their bodies and the environment etc. if they choose to go this path, I wouldn't love them any less and if they were emotionally secure enough like myself not become attached and they weighed all of the risks and made an informed decision I wouldn't care.
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  That isn't my decision to make, regardless of whether I approve or not. What I think is that IF I had a daughter, which I don't have any children at this point, it is my duty to be supportive of her decisions.
  
  It is not my place to talk her out of it. It is my place to ensure she understands that I'm willing to be supportive of whatever life choices she makes, so long as they don't destroy someone else's life or her own.
  
  Her entering into the Porn Industry is for her to investigate before doing. I would ask how much she did about investigating it and the people who she would be working with.
  
  I certainly hope that answered your question. And since I'm not a parent, then I'm pretty sure people will gladly tell me I am naive about parenting because I've never been one. Yada, yada, yada, I've heard it before.
  reply report
  0
  kimberlyslyricsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  +1
  reply report
  78
  schoolgirlforrealposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Some of it's pretty high class
  reply report
  60
  recommend1posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Sounds good on the surface, but it is fact that most western daughters are no longer with their natural fathers by the time they reach their teens. So rephrase the question as "what would you do about your daughters step-father (who has all parental rights normally) pushing your daughter into his pronography business at 18 years of age" ?
  Bear in mind that the first you might even know about it is finding the image of her looking up adoringly at her 'step-father' as she 'pleasures' him in the father-daughter rape section of the porn site.
  This just below her peering down at you in the up-skirt school uniform section.
  reply report

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