killing babies??

1. 58

   mktol1984posted 16 years ago

   Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it with religious conviction. -- Blaise Pascal
   
   Of all bad men religious bad men are the worst. --C.S. Lewis

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2. 59

   tksenseiposted 16 years ago

   Thanks bigot.

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   1. 59

      Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this

      Personal insults again. Excellent. Very well thought out argument. I don't know how you find the time to come up with these. No really. Quite amazing. Troll.

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      1. 59

         tksenseiposted 16 years agoin reply to this

         Don't pretend you are anything more than a one-note troll yourself, bigot.
         
         
         
         You're afraid of religion, YEAH WE GET IT ALREADY.

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         1. 59

            Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this

            Well, apparently you don't get it. Not sure I can be bothered to explain once again as it would appear you are unable to understand simple English.

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3. 58

   mktol1984posted 16 years ago

   It might not have been a eloquent persuasive and well- written argument but the point still remains christians still attempt to force there beliefs onto the entire country or any country that they inhabit I get annoyed to to the point of anger with these religious arguments because they shouldn't be given and credablity simply because in a country that was founded on the idea of keeping the church and the government seperate then any debate that has its roots in a persons beleif sound be tossed to the side but to much anger it isn't in this country we allow them to pressure people and allow them to threaten people and allow them to lobby our government I honestly fear the day when the christians take over this country and fully merge government and religion because people like me will be at risk So i am sorry if my language is a bit to harsh but why should i not become passionate and display my anger with words that display anger at what our society has become

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   1. 73

      Ralph Deedsposted 16 years agoin reply to this

      Very true. It's not only Christians. Fundamentalists of nearly all religions are quite similar in their efforts to impose their beliefs on everyone.

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4. 59

   tksenseiposted 16 years ago

   word line sentence dog cat in on at be for the an with argue religion do say thing have get be will.

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5. 58

   mktol1984posted 16 years ago

   When a persons only argument against something is that god doesn't like it or god will be mad or you will go to hell then that person or groups view should not be allowed to hold any legal merit this is a secular government they should require a secular argument but the reality is drastically different

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6. 58

   mktol1984posted 16 years ago

   My grammer might not be the best and my spelling is horrible but since im not being graded on this site then what do i care if a cared i would double check my work and trust me when i try to write a a paper and edit it and revise it i can get high marks on my papers but since this is just a forum what do i care i just type i treat this place as a way to practice my free writieng

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   1. 59

      tksenseiposted 16 years agoin reply to this

      Wow.
      
      
      
      
      
      ......................

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7. 58

   mktol1984posted 16 years ago

   Im glad you get that i distrust and have a fear of religion thats good but don't think for a second that im going to stop posting about my thoughts just because they seem to be annoying you because my goal is to show people that religion is harmful to society

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8. 58

   mktol1984posted 16 years ago

   In 1923, Who Was:
   
   1. President of the largest steel company?
   2. President of the largest gas company?
   3. President of the New York stock Exchange?
   4. Greatest wheat speculator?
   5. President of the Bank of International Settlement?
   6. Great Bear of Wall Street?
   
   These men were considered some of the worlds most successful of their days.
   
   Now, 80 years later, the history book asks us if we know what ultimately became of them.
   
   The Answers:
   1. The president of the largest steel company. Charles Schwab, died a pauper.
   
   2. The president of the largest gas company, Edward Hopson, went insane.
   
   3. The president of the NYSE, Richard Whitney, was released from prison to die at home.
   
   4. The greatest wheat speculator, Arthur Cooger, died abroad, penniless.
   
   5.. The president of the Bank of International Settlement, shot himself.
   
   6 The Great Bear of Wall Street, Cosabee Livermore, also committed suicide However, in that same year, 1923, the PGA Champion and the winner of the most important golf tournament, the US Open,
   was Gene Sarazen. What became of him?
   
   He played golf until he was 92, died in 1999 at the age of 95.
   He was financially secure at the time of his death.
   
   The Moral:
   
   Screw work..
   Play golf.

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9. 59

   tksenseiposted 16 years ago

   YOU should definately do that...

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10. 73

    Ralph Deedsposted 16 years ago

    Here's an example of what comes from all the sick, intemperate anti-abortion rhetoric that winds the crazies up
    
    http://www.doublex.com/blog/xxfactor/br … rge-tiller

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    1. 68

       Make Moneyposted 16 years agoin reply to this

       Dr. Tiller's Abortion Records Exposed

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       1. 73

          Ralph Deedsposted 16 years agoin reply to this

          Did you know that Dr. McHugh is a rabid Catholic who is adviser to the Vatican on sexual matters? He was recruited by the Kansas Attorney General to be a witness for the prosecution. What a creepy guy he appears to be on the video tape.
          
          http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/ … ualism.htm

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          1. 68

             Make Moneyposted 16 years agoin reply to this

             In contrast to you trying to make Tiller out to be a hero I think it was appropriate to show the results of the investigation where Dr. McHugh when asked if he saw any one file that justified a late term abortion that demonstrated that she would suffer substantial and irreversible harm say "I saw no file that justified abortion on that basis."

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             1. 73

                Ralph Deedsposted 16 years agoin reply to this

                Makemoney, I don't recall trying to "make Dr. Tiller a hero." My only suggestion is tht the rhetoric of the anti-abortion crowd incites whackadoos like Roeder to commit mayhem which is, even from your viewpoint, counter-productive.

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                1. 73

                   Ralph Deedsposted 16 years agoin reply to this

                   Very true.

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          2. 59

             Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this

             You have to remember that Make Money is in favor of killing anyone who does not subscribe to the Catholic view that all life is sacred - except when god says it is not.

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11. 61

    usmanali81posted 16 years ago

    Islam permits abortion under following circumstances with in 120 days / 3 months as the fetus becomes alive at this time.
    
    (1) Rape
    
    (2) Incest
    
    (3) Fetal deformity such as anencephaly
    
    (4) If the mother's life is in danger as a result of the pregnancy such as worsening of heart failure in congenital heart disease.
    
    (5) If the pregnancy itself causes a disease such as toxemia of the pregnancy.
    
    (6) If the new pregnancy causes severe depletion of milk and the existing infant is dependant on the mother's milk.

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    1. 0

       Leta Sposted 16 years agoin reply to this

       As do most cultures one finds, thoughout history and in terms of law.
       
       *edit--from what I've studied/seen under ANY circumstance up to 3 months.

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12. 70

    earnestshubposted 16 years ago

    What Islam or any religion thinks of abortion is irrelevant. No one has the right to impose religious views on others, especially when it is about something as difficult as abortion.

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    1. 0

       Leta Sposted 16 years agoin reply to this

       True.
       
       usmanali81 seems pretty hell-bent on spreading the word of Islam all over the forums.

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    2. 61

       usmanali81posted 16 years agoin reply to this

       Your english is weak, i did'nt imposed, just presented.

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13. 59

    JonTutorposted 16 years ago

    That Usman dude sure has lots of crazy delusions. He needs to be in a facility.  And he certainly is doing a lousy job spreading Islam...My prof would give him an F.

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14. 68

    Make Moneyposted 16 years ago

    You are being silly Mark.

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    1. 59

       Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this

       Not really. I just tell it as I see it. Here we are with a man shot to death in church and here you are pushing your anti abortion agenda. Speaks for itself really Make Money.

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       1. 59

          countrywomenposted 16 years agoin reply to this

          I don't know what to say. But I personally feel even if some people believe it is totally wrong for Doctors to perform abortions i.e., "killing" babies. At the same time killing a Doctor in the church also doesn't seem right. I mean two wrongs don't make a right. Just my two cents.

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          1. 59

             Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this

             Read this:
             
             http://hubpages.com/hub/Recent-Murder

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             1. 59

                countrywomenposted 16 years agoin reply to this

                That picture at the end was terrible and I just couldn't digest some folks being sympathetic to a man who killed another man that too in a place of worship(so much for love/compassion). I don't even know how some people try to justify murder in the first place.
                
                Just like some folks seem to have different labels for those who are on our side to be freedom fighters and on the other side to be terrorists. Murder is murder i.e., a reprehensible criminal act punishable by law.

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                1. 70

                   earnestshubposted 16 years agoin reply to this

                   That about sums it up countrywoman, well said.

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          2. 68

             Make Moneyposted 16 years agoin reply to this

             I agree totally countrywomen as I clearly said in the other thread, to Mark, by the way.

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             1. 59

                Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this

                Yet still, you are pushing your anti-abortion agenda. Why is that?

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15. 68

    Make Moneyposted 16 years ago

    I always will Mark, cause it's killing too, especially late term abortions.

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    1. 59

       Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this

       So despite the fact that one of your compatriots killed some one in church - you will continue to push this and even add links to BS christian websites that make scurrilous attacks on the dead man? OK - I get where you are coming from. How very christian of you.
       
       Just as a matter of interest - exactly how many unwanted, deformed babies have you adopted and given a loving home to?

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16. 80

    spiderpamposted 16 years ago

    I feel sympathy for the family of Tiller, no one deserves to lose a loved one. On the other hand 60,000 babies aborted I don't care what side you're on that's pretty apalling and sad:(

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    1. 59

       Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this

       This is s true christian right here. "It is s shame, but let's face it, the guy was an abortionist so I am secretly happy a good christian soldier gunned down an unarmed man because this proves abortion is a sin."
       
       You are just trying to convince me that christian values are hypocritical lies. Get thee behind me. 

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       1. 80

          spiderpamposted 16 years agoin reply to this

          WOW Mark you got my number, Murder is wrong wheather you're Christian, atheist, or whatever you are this week.

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17. 51

    graphhikerposted 16 years ago

    Oh dear, forgive me but isn't there a constitutional right in America that gives a person freedom of speech?  If this is so, then do people also have the freedom to choose also? The last time I looked at law, the only time these rights are limited, is when laws are put into place.
    
    So for me, if a particular state or country has laws in place that prohibits abortion, then those laws are respected.
    
    And sadly for me as a woman, I feel my rights to make these choices (should they arise) are stripped away from me by boys-club mentalities.
    
    I don't know what the answer is; however, I know either way, my body is stripped of its freedom to voice and choose.
    
    Cheers!

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18. 73

    Ralph Deedsposted 16 years ago

    How do you right to lifers feel about the whackadoo who killed the Army recruiter last week or the Nazi who shot the guard at the Holocaust Memorial today in Washington, D.C.? Their twisted logic is similar to that of Rodent who killed Dr. Tiller in Kansas.
    
    http://www.holywesternempire.org/page2.html

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19. 73

    Ralph Deedsposted 16 years ago

    More on James von Brunn here from TPM
    
    http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/news/2 … hp?ref=fpb

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20. 59

    countrywomenposted 16 years ago

    This whole thing about feeling righteous and trying to justify their violent acts seems too much to me. When and where is it going to end. Don't we have laws that are meant to be respected/followed. Now killing a Doctor because he was "killing" babies and sometime in future there maybe some vegetarian right wing folks who may start another agenda against those who "kill" animals(suiting his/her personal religious beliefs). If at all we want to bring a change then we have other avenues to pursue but taking law into our hands shouldn't be the solution. Just my two cents.

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21. 59

    countrywomenposted 16 years ago

    Earnestshub- Thanks for your understanding. Luckily what you see in news about US isn't the way most Americans are and especially in our place folks are very educated and sensible. I just wanted to add that info because someone who may not have first hand information may tend to generalize US if they read such disturbing news. Have a good day.

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22. 73

    Ralph Deedsposted 16 years ago

    Comment by neighbor of Steve Reimink of Grand Haven, Michigan, who is the owner of the website which promotes James von Brunn's anti-semitic, Nazi book:
    
    Reimink neighbor Jo TenBrink defended him Wednesday night.
    
    "He is a great neighbor and a nice man," TenBrink told a reporter. "He comes from a very Christian family and is very helpful. We wouldn't be talking with him if we believed he had any part of this. I don't believe he has anything to do with" von Brunn.
    
    Enough said!

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23. 66

    Lisa HWposted 16 years ago

    Timothy uses a crude choice of words, and he also brings up the religion thing.  He also appears to pretty much blame the woman, alone, for the unplanned pregnancy.  I don't think what Timothy says should hold much weight.
    
    At the same time, the rape argument doesn't account for a good percentage of abortions.  Although it's part of the larger argument, it seems as if you've resorted to it to dramatically point out how wrong Timothy is.
    
    I think people need to really reason out the matter of abortion, consider the stage in pregnancy at which it is performed, consider whether someone who could even have an abortion has the maternal instinct needed to be a good mother, and consider whether bringing a child into the world to a mother who may "doom" him/her to a life of emotional damage that may equal a life of misery.  Also, in young girls who are essentially too stupid to prevent pregnancy, or who think "it won't happen to me", I think overall (and often disastrous) consequences of having the baby should weigh into opinions.
    
    For those people who believe in God, one question may be, "Might God actually think it's better to end a life when it's still in the very early, early, stages; rather bring into the world a child headed for a life of negligence, abuse, or even just inadequate love?  A mother's nurturing actually affects the physiological development of the brain in the first few years.  Might God think people should try to assure all new children be given the benefits of what every new child needs and deserves?  Also, might God think there's a difference between an 8-week fetus and a 25-week fetus?  Might He forgive the mistakes of, say, a teenager who is operating on the immature brain He gave them?  Would God expect people to use the reasoning ability He gave them (or at least a lot of them) in considering the abortion question?
    
    God or no God, isn't it worth considering that no baby deserves to be born to a drug addicted mother, and be destined to a life of being moved from one foster home to another?  Let's be realistic.  Not all foster homes are good.  Some are horrible.  Even the good ones can't always be permanent.  Yes, there's the adoption option.  (I have one adopted child, myself, because he was removed from an abusive home in infancy after a skull fracture).  Might God think, though, that a stupid 15-year-old girl (who isn't sharp enough to make good and sure she and little boyfriend don't have an unwanted pregnancy) should be doomed to a life of the loss so many birth mothers suffer?
    
    I think both you and Timothy have over-simplified the abortion question.    Which of you do I think is right?  I don't know.  I think people who think it all out and try to decide what's right will always end up thinking abortion is a rotten thing, and maybe even a very wrong thing, but sometimes the better of two rotten options.

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24. 70

    Research Analystposted 16 years ago

    neutral

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25. 73

    Ralph Deedsposted 16 years ago

    Bill O'Reilly and Joan Walsh discuss Tiller's murder and abortion.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDV1jsPlKD8

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26. 59

    JonTutorposted 16 years ago

    Any blind belief or fundamentalism leads to insanity.... Christians are no better than Muslims.

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27. 72

    Eaglekiwiposted 16 years ago

    You and I once began just like 'those few cells' and evolved with the potential to be intelligent, creative beings.
    Science can tell us how they formed ,the molecular components ,even give the cells names.
    But it was a far greater designer who created it all to begin with.

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    1. 59

       Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this

       LOL _ Yes - of course. What we choose to do with our "intelligence" is another matter.
       
       So - what do you think my wife should do if she gets pregnant? And - more importantly - just exactly who gives you a right to have an opinion on that? Condescending doesn't even come close.
       
       A far greater designer? I suppose you have some proof of this designer? No? Oh too bad...........

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          Eaglekiwiposted 16 years agoin reply to this

          Have you always asked , then answered your own question? wow you must be your very own SELF contained forum

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          1. 59

             Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this

             Far better if GOD tells you what to do huh? Religionists

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             1. 72

                Eaglekiwiposted 16 years agoin reply to this

                ahhhhh just a stereotype , Im sure youre familiar with labels too.
                Wont be a 'religionist' nor a 'atheist' sitting on the throne.

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                1. 59

                   Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this

                   There is no throne sweetheart. Sorry. I have conclusively proven that there is no god and here you are telling me what my wife should do based on what> Nothing. Oh well...... Semantics - as usual from you believers of nothing.

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                   1. 72

                      Eaglekiwiposted 16 years agoin reply to this

                      I have never told your wife what to do
                      If you resort to innuedo or lies to self promote one self there in lies the weakness of your discussion.
                      For your sake I hope there is no throne
                      For mine , If Im wrong , Ive lost nothing

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                      1. 59

                         Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this

                         Only your only chance at living your life.
                         
                         So - you do not have an opinion on whether my wife can choose to kill a baby slumbering in her womb? Excellent - thank you. She should choose for herself - I agree. How very un-religious of you, I am glad you think abortion should be the choice of the woman.

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                   2. 61

                      JYOTI KOTHARIposted 16 years agoin reply to this

                      There has no conclusion whether God exists or not. It is an open question in the minds of men and women. How can one claim that he or she has conclusively proven that there is no God?
                      One may have one's opinion about the same but others have all reasons to deny that.
                      
                      Some are in favor of abortion but we are not.
                      Thanks,
                      Jyoti Kothari

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             2. 72

                Eaglekiwiposted 16 years agoin reply to this

                If I had to chose between mere man and God , oh wait hard choice..

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    2. 59

       tksenseiposted 16 years agoin reply to this

       Right.

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28. 72

    Eaglekiwiposted 16 years ago

    What your wife does if she gets pregnant is entirely up to her...
    What I do is up to me and my God.
    What I think  about your decisions has absolutely no relevance at all ,diddly squat!
    If you ask my opinion , I am free to offer it ,am I not ( forum question)

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29. 0

    annvansposted 16 years ago

    I do not really agree with abortion however if someone cannot afford to even give birth to a child, I guess I see why they do it.  Yes, most are responsible for their actions and they should be more responsible.  This all leads up to ...nobody is perfect and everyone sins at one point in their life.  Honestly, I wouldn't want to have an abortion but I honestly believe that those babies that die from abortions do not have a soul yet and they do not know anything.  I still do not think it is right to have an abortion though, being responsible can prevent you from having to have an abortion.

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30. 0

    annvansposted 16 years ago

    I forgot to add that I feel nobody should judge anyone about what they are doing.  I do believe that anything that someone says bad toward another person is really speaking of themselves.  I also believe that it is none of anyone elses business what others do with their bodies.

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31. 62

    AsherKadeposted 16 years ago

    ABORTION IS WRONG! IF YOU WERE RAPED, GET COUNSELING, LIKE MY FRIENDS HAVE DONE, AND THEN GIVE THE BABIES TO LOVING PARENTS TO ADOPT. WHY KILL A BABY BECAUSE YOU WEREN'T READY? WAS THE BABY READY TO LIVE OR DIE?

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    1. 0

       annvansposted 16 years agoin reply to this

       Just the same as someone feels to keep it and then give it away to a stranger, another person decides to not have it.  Some people just decide differently, but I still do not think it has a soul until it is born, so I guess it knows of nothing until then. 
       
       What if you the mother wasn't ready and both died during birth?

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       getpaidtopostposted 16 years agoin reply to this

       O shut up. Is this what you friend done who got raped,
       
       Im sure if your friend became pregnant after being raped and then gave the kid up for adoption, you would not write such garbage.
       
       

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32. 61

    usmanali81posted 16 years ago

    As i said earlier, only ISLAM has the solution for the said problem.
    
    Islam permits abortion under following circumstances with in 120 days / 3 months as the fetus becomes alive at this time.
    
    (1) Rape
    
    (2) Fetal deformity such as anencephaly
    
    (3) If the mother's life is in danger as a result of the pregnancy such as worsening of heart failure in congenital heart disease.
    
    (4) If the pregnancy itself causes a disease such as toxemia of the pregnancy.
    
    (5) If the new pregnancy causes severe depletion of milk and the existing infant is dependant on the mother's milk.

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33. 38

    rastrotherposted 16 years ago

    under no circumstances should abortion be legal, unless you take away the law that make killing a person a crime. regardless of how you justify it, a baby 1 hour old to 9 months old is still a person so abortion is murder. and just to let everyone know, i speak some big political issues but i dont support any organized religions so my opinion is completly bias on this.

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34. 61

    JYOTI KOTHARIposted 16 years ago

    Thanks to the people who can understand that abortion is killing babies.
    There is a life!!
    There is a life!!
    There is a life!!
    The life must not be destroyed.
    
    Jyoti Kothari

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35. 0

    L. Andrew Marrposted 16 years ago

    Please ignore the bad grammer of my last post (and of this one) as it is 2.30am over here; I just thought I would voice my opinion on the matter since I spent three months studying the sanctity of life in Philosophy and Ethics.

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       Ralph Deedsposted 16 years agoin reply to this

       You write very well. However, I can't resist pointing out that "grammar" is the correct spelling, not "grammer."

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          L. Andrew Marrposted 16 years agoin reply to this

          Haha cheers,
          
          2.37AM!!!!!
          
          That is my excuse...
          
          I meant "grammar" really.

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          1. 73

             Ralph Deedsposted 16 years agoin reply to this

             I'll consider it a typo. Keep up the good work!

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             1. 61

                JYOTI KOTHARIposted 16 years agoin reply to this

                "Bad grammar" is much better than killing an embryo. We must save lives of unborn babies.
                Thanks,
                
                Jyoti Kothari

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                1. 0

                   L. Andrew Marrposted 16 years agoin reply to this

                   That is a very good point, however, I still do not condemn it entirely (after all, who am I to condemn something which I will never have to experience). If the mother chooses a pro-life view then it is perfectly within her rights, same as if she chooses a religious view or a pro-choice view.
                   
                   Who am I to judge?

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36. 0

    L. Andrew Marrposted 16 years ago

    Also, I would like to say (about the woman in that documentry)
    
    
    Condoms = £2
    
    Abortion = £500
    
    
    You can tell she wasn't very good at maths...

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37. 72

    Eaglekiwiposted 16 years ago

    Yea I agree
    It is a personal choice ,or should be .
    
    I was thinking though that when people ask in a forum (anywhere) its almost like they feel guilty ,or need support in some way. Definately I guess they seem to be still working through the issues.
    I feel for them.

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    1. 0

       L. Andrew Marrposted 16 years agoin reply to this

       Indeed,
       I completely agree with you dear woman.
       
       One thing I have noticed, leaving aside I have just realised I am sunburnt and roughly the same colour as my t-shirt, is that the majority of people condemning it are men. Most women seem open minded in the matter. I guess if it were men who had wombs then it would be the other way around.

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38. 72

    Eaglekiwiposted 16 years ago

    Thinking about this, I
    
    Knows how a Christian might think, I know how a Non-Christian might think
    
    These are my thoughts (so far)
    
    Leaving God out of the conversation (but not my heart) and ignoring the  Atheist veiw point (for a moment)
    
    What would I do (if I was raped etc) and pregnant
    
    It is hyothetical and difficult to answer,
    
    My mind knows what I want to be able to do
    
    
    But would my body agree to it.
    
    I dont know ,thats my honest answer.
    
    God( couldnt resist) help the woman , but it is her choice.
    
    Her right IS ,to have all possible choices available ,without predujice ,without bias, and without shame.
    
    I dont profess to know the mind of God, geeze somedays I dont even know my own , yet I do know God determines life , not man, and he determined it, pre-destined it, long before we decide when and if there are extra cells present ( pregnancy)
    
    To assume though that must mean , all pregnancies are destined to reach their gestation , I dont know .
    
    If someone has found an answer to that , Id be interested.
    
    
    
    oh bloody typical , you guys went off topic!! 

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       Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this

       lol
       
       Off topic. Moi?
       
       This may help you make your mind up as to whether "pre-destiny by god," means all pregnancies are "meant to be by divine will."
       
       http://www.womens-health.co.uk/miscarr.asp
       
       Something like 50% of all pregnancies do not go to term - naturally. Or, I guess, god aborts them? I don't know how that fits in with your belief system.

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       1. 72

          Eaglekiwiposted 16 years agoin reply to this

          fits in rather well , logically and spiritually
          
          Knows how a Christian might think, I know how a Non-Christian might think
          
          These are my thoughts (so far)
          
          Leaving God out of the conversation (but not my heart) and ignoring the  Atheist veiw point (for a moment)
          
          What would I do (if I was raped etc) and pregnant
          
          It is hyothetical and difficult to answer,
          
          My mind knows what I want to be able to do
          
          I have had one of those "missed abortions" was the medical term, so in theory an abortion. My body aborted naturally.
          Long story ,but thats the short version.
          The hospital would have performed it sooner , but what if they had been wrong?
          My body was fearfully and wonderfully made ( God said so , the Scientist said so) ...besides our bodies perform cell regeneration every single day ( except the brain)
          
          that in itself is mindboggling! ,my point being ,I can see how in the great master blue print ,not all abortions can be wrong.

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             Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this

             Right. Well, for once we agree. I assume your god is a different god to the guy I have been talking to's.
             
             Odd how god happens to always have exactly the same opinions as we have already come to.
             
             Makes you think......................

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39. 72

    Eaglekiwiposted 16 years ago

    Does it boil down to this then
    
    If we only rely on Biology then its easy to control , manage what we do with cells...we dont need morals right?
    
    That definately would make it easier to accept abortion , cloning, anything  really, because we could a ccept it all as 'just science'.
    
    I like Science , Its fascinating .
    
    I love all that God has created.
    
    Killing babies isnt creating ,its destroying.
    
    But it all starts and ends with one tiny cell..( actually even smaller)...on that glass slide in the laboratory, and yet what we do, or dont do with it  has huge ramifications emotionally.
    
    Yes we begin as a cell, doesnt all life?

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       Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this

       Ah - so you have morals and I do not. Because my life is based solely on science and I am incapable of developing morals without an invisible super being to tell me what is right and wromg. Is that right?
       
       Although your invisible super being has a different set of standards to fishmox's because his says abortion is never OK, but yours says it is.
       
       Makes you think..........

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          Eaglekiwiposted 16 years agoin reply to this

          I like thinking...
          
          I dont know if you have morals or not ,was analysing the topic(remember) not interviewing you ,lol
          
          If a person doesnt see a cell as life , then they can treat it as 'inanimate' with no emotion , or morals , or conscience required, I mean it might as be a pound of butter or the dogs dinner!
          
          God remains the same today as yesterday , we (humans) are always changing , hence different opinions , different religions.
          
          Im sure you dont think like every other non-believer,no you have your own mind .

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             Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this

             So - your god's opinions depend solely on you? And your god thinks differently to his god. And they both happen to agree with what you both already think.
             
             Makes you think......

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                Eaglekiwiposted 16 years agoin reply to this

                I already said Who can know the mind of God? so how did you arrive at "your gods opinions depend solely on you" from?
                
                You have completely twisted what I wrote and attempting to shelve me into some 'box'
                
                Actually Mark you are behaving like a clairvoyant ie
                you are...you think ...you will ...you both ...your god...
                
                makes you think ? or makes you drink

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                   Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this

                   Now I am all confused. You told me earlier that you were "saved," and I am not. You think you are going to live forever in heaven, and I am not.
                   
                   
                   How do you know this if you do not know the mind of your god?

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                      Eaglekiwiposted 16 years agoin reply to this

                      God is not the author of confusion ,so im happy to help ya out with that
                      
                      Gods word ,Gods attributes dont change ,He is Love , He is spirit .
                      I am saved( scripture) , but I dont know how you stand with God , only you know that.
                      I know I will live for-ever in heaven(scripture) , his word says that. As for you , well you have stipulated that you wont be there (but Im optimistic all the same) humans change their minds everyday.
                      I am not like God, or even a mini god,(scripture) therefore I will never know the mind of God, much in the same way you or I will never know all of Science, or ALL there is to know.
                      
                      However Im sure you already knew that.

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                         Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this

                         Ah, but they do change. This is where the "makes you think," comes in because they conveniently fit whoever is doing the saying.
                         
                         And you do apparently know god's mind (word) and you are going to live forever. Despite the obvious proof that nothing lives forever.
                         
                         I have not stipulated anything. You say you are saved for whatever reason you have invented and will live forever in heaven and by extension this must exclude me because I haven't done whatever you are supposed to do. I do not believe there is any such place, but if you think I will be there also what is the point of doing whatever it is you think you have done to assure living forever?

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                            Eaglekiwiposted 16 years agoin reply to this

                            No , see there you go again , I didnt say you would be heaven , I said I was optimistic you would be ,since you can change you mind ,its called the gift of choice.
                            
                            If you think I have invented God and or his theories, and you Mark turn out to be correct , we will be in the same place, ie a pile of dust ,deep in the ground , nothing more , nothing less.
                            
                            But if I turn out to be correct ,and chose to beleive there is a God and his gift of eternal life was for real , then  I made the right choice. Not bad odds.

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                               Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this

                               LOL
                               
                               The "If I don't believe I will go to hell, but if I do, I will have won," argument.
                               
                               So. I guess you do not believe in "makes you think" after all........
                               
                               Just blindly follow. Go with the popular opinion. There must be a god otherwise why are we here?   OK
                               
                               Although - if you do actually think about it - what is worse - discovering there is nothing after all and wasting your life believing in something that does not exist - or discovering that you were wrong and get to go to heaven anyway?

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                                  Eaglekiwiposted 16 years agoin reply to this

                                  Whhhhhaaaat?
                                  
                                  That last statement is a contradiction ,( and I actually do think about it)
                                  What could I have regreted doing differently if I find im wrong?, my life has not been wasted so far ,so Im hopeful the rest of my days will be great too.
                                  
                                  Wrong about God and going to heaven anyway? not with ya on that one

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                                     Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this

                                     LOL
                                     
                                     Of course you are not with it. You already know what god wants therefore it is not possible to say "there is no god" and still go to heaven.
                                     
                                     Not that you speak for god or anything......

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                                        Eaglekiwiposted 16 years agoin reply to this

                                        Oh good you are thinking too. 
                                        
                                        I accept God
                                        I speak for myself
                                        God speaks for himself

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                                           Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this

                                           Oh good. So you accept that it makes no difference if I believe in your invisible super being or not. Thank you.
                                           
                                           There is no god.
                                           You speak your own opinion and nothing else.
                                           God does not exist therefore does not speak.
                                           
                                           What a terrible waste of a life.
                                           
                                           ciao

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                                              Eaglekiwiposted 16 years agoin reply to this

                                              Of course it makes no difference ,Im surprised you thought it would ?
                                              Yes I speak my own opinion , and I dont need you to speak it for me (although you insist on trying)
                                              
                                              wasted ? in what way ,no , thats just one of those throwway statements
                                              
                                              to your best life

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                                              1. 59

                                                 Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this

                                                 LOL
                                                 
                                                 OK - so it is your opinion and nothing more. Thank you. I agree - there is no god, you are not saved and I am going to heaven.
                                                 
                                                 I love my life and enjoy it to the fullest.
                                                 
                                                 To your everlasting life after being saved.

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                                                    Make Moneyposted 16 years agoin reply to this

                                                    Oh you want to go to heaven now Mark.
                                                    
                                                    Where God lives.
                                                    
                                                    Well you are going to have to pull your socks up curly.

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40. 72

    Eaglekiwiposted 16 years ago

    Odd how god happens to always have exactly the same opinions as we have already come to
    
    Can you explain plse?

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    ocbillposted 16 years ago

    abortion should be legal. A person's religion is no excuse to throw a blanket rule on others. If a person does not want it due to rape, incest let them have an abortion. If they cannot afford the child or don't want to bring it to term then it is their choice, not yours.  Their body, their choice, not he Pastor or Father David.
    
    It happens so much in countries other than ours should women overseas also have to keep these children because dictators, military men can just venture through villages and make a woman, or (a teen who is only 14 yrs old) have 2 or 3 more kids.
    
    Should a woman who is irresponsible overall be forced to keep a kid?
    How about the one's on drugs?

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42. 0

    fierycjposted 16 years ago

    Mark Knowles is back! YES! The Glory of the latter house has returned! O heralds of faith and anti-faith..gather ye!

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    Mishaposted 16 years ago

    LOL Guys, I am starting to fall asleep reading your exchange. Are you doing this just because you think you have to? Come on, give it some heart.

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       Eaglekiwiposted 16 years agoin reply to this

       Go take yer nap Misha

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          Mishaposted 16 years agoin reply to this

          Believe it or not, this is exactly what I am going to do

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44. 66

    Mishaposted 16 years ago

    LOL Here we go again. Looks like after bible american constitution is the most controversial book in history

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       Ron Montgomeryposted 16 years agoin reply to this

       Should I bake some cupcakes?

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    love my yorkiesposted 16 years ago

    whatever your opinion on abortion and whatever you consider right or wrong.  History shows us that just because we make something illegal, it doesn't stop.

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46. 66

    Mishaposted 16 years ago

    Depending on what you want to use them for

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47. 60

    Ron Montgomeryposted 16 years ago

    

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       Mishaposted 16 years agoin reply to this

       LOL That one I like don't see me going to war though, so go ahead and bake them

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