The ACORN Scandal: Videos used voiceovers

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William R. Wilsonposted 15 years ago
Looks like the ACORN video was a hatchet job after all:

"The videos that have been released appear to have been edited, in some cases substantially, including the insertion of a substitute voiceover for significant portions of Mr. O'Keefe's and Ms. Giles's comments, which makes it difficult to determine the questions to which ACORN employees are responding. A comparison of the publicly available transcripts to the released videos confirms that large portions of the original video have been omitted from the released versions."

Story here:

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.c … onduct.php

full report here (PDF):

http://www.proskauer.com/files/uploads/report2.pdf
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  Mitch Rappposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Voice over? How do you people sleep at night?
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  sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  A conscious is outlawed in any and all socialist and communist regimes.
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  Mitch Rappposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Its amazing the lengths they will go to to find justification for a criminal organization!
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  William R. Wilsonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  What's your proof that ACORN is a criminal organization?
  
  I want something that would stand up in a court of law, not unsubstantiated allegations based on edited videos.
  
  You are so certain - so let's see your evidence.
  
  Congress has found no wrongdoing. The law firm that reviewed ACORNs case found no wrongdoing. What else do you have?
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  Mitch Rappposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  My proof? How about the criminal prosecutions and CONVICTIONS of many of their representatives, I guess that wouldn't be enough for you? Let me guess, those employees acted all on their own?
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  William R. Wilsonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Which ones? Give me links, so we can determine if they acted on their own or not.
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  Mitch Rappposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  G O O G L E! I'm not here to supply you links, the info is there!
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  William R. Wilsonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  So you're here to make allegations but you don't have to be accountable for the allegations?
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  Mitch Rappposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  That's exactly right! You act like the charges, Prosecutions, and convictions never occurred. Being ignorant of facts is a symptom of brainwashing!
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  mikelongposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  And ignorance is a prerequisite for identification with the aggressor syndrome....Too much of it flows around here unfortunately...
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  sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  It was just an observation larry.
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  Mitch Rappposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Get an education then because your ignorance is showing!
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  mikelongposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Obviously.
  
  Living in Los Angeles can provide a wealth of perspective, especially when one knows how it has come to be.
  
  To really have a discussion on this issue I believe that there is prerequisite knowledge that everyone shares, something which few here are manifesting.
  
  I'm not saying that we all have to agree, but we all should at least be able to objectively look at the whole picture prior to discussion, because then we turn into this (see attached quoted section above).
  
  I would like to suggest a few, but everyone should feel free to share sources:
  
  1) The Fragmented Metropolis by Fogelson
  
  2) The Holy Land: A Suburban Memoir by D.J. Waldie
  
  3) Eden By Design by Greg Hise et al
  
  4) City of Quartz by Mike Davis
  
  5) Voices of A People's History of the United States...the whole thing is great, but focus in on an article entitled "In LA, Burning All Illusions" also by Mike Davis
  
  6) View the movie "Chinatown"
  
  There are more...but this is a decent start.
  
  Aside from my service time, I have lived in the San Fernando Valley, and spent a great proportion of my time throughout the city...
  
  Groups that serve to regulate business/private interests are being torn down all around me.
  
  The prisons here in California are increasingly privatized. Having persons close to me who have spent various times in various places of incarceration, I also have a wealth of perspective of how the penal system is working....I'm watching prisoners being turned into ATM cards...accessing the already struggling bank accounts/assets period of their families on the outside...
  
  I am watching the schools I attended being taken over by non-profit arms of technology product producing corporations from out of state.....
  
  I work for the State through a non-profit organization servicing foster youth in the city and county of Los Angeles...
  
  I also worked for a school photography company..going around and taking students' pictures for their yearbooks and such...
  
  From Martin Luther King Jr. Middle School to Malibu High School, I saw where the money is assorted, and where it selectively isn't.
  
  I can go on, but won't now. If you people are really serious, and not, for many here, simply spouting not much more than hot air, then let us point to more than an article somewhere...
  
  I have now begun my part, who is willing to follow along?
  
  Serious anybody?
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  William R. Wilsonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Is that crickets I hear?
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  William R. Wilsonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Still no response from the right wing peanut gallery? You guys are so sure of yourself - where are your sources?
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  sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I know! Whats wrong with us they only want to establish new markets and store fronts for new buisness enterprises.
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  William R. Wilsonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Nice source there.
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  sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Bill O'Rielly, interviewed the two reporters that exposed the corupt nature of the organization. You have failed to disprove those facts.
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  William R. Wilsonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You call them reporters?
  
  L.
  O.
  L.
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  sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I'm not I'm going by what was said. That aside it does not diminish the actions taken by the acorn workers and beg the question," Is there more?"
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  William R. Wilsonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Did you read the report sneak? The videos were edited, for one thing. The questions that the ACORN employees are answering on the video were not always the questions they were asked in reality. The transcripts reveal a very different picture of what happened in those offices.
  
  An independent investigation, and Congress, have both found now that ACORN did nothing wrong. A Federal judge in New York found that the defund ACORN act was unconstitutional.
  
  Here's the CRS report:
  
  http://www.scribd.com/doc/24424725/Cong … t-On-Acorn
  
  The "reporters" broke the law and created a false impression of the organization through their dishonest, edited video. Fox news and all the other right wing news sources trumpeted these dishonest videos without investigating the facts.
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  sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  As soon as they heard illegal activties were proposed they should have shown them the door.
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  William R. Wilsonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  So it's ok for the 'reporters' to break the law and deceive the ACORN employees, but not ok for the ACORN employees to give tax advice to a prostitute who's trying to escape her pimp?
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  William R. Wilsonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Still haven't heard anything about this:
  
  The filmmakers broke the law in getting that film. Why didn't Fox News "show them the door" as soon as they realized that the law had been broken?
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  Mitch Rappposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Here is all anyone needs to know about this "report"
  
  "a report commissioned by ACORN and conducted by an independent investigator has found."
  
  If you think that an "independent investigator" payed by ACORN was going to find any fault with ACORN, then you are way beyond using logic.
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  William R. Wilsonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  OK then, what about the Congressional Report?
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  Mitch Rappposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Didn't see a Congressional report, but if its been done in the last 3 years its as reputable as the ACORN report! This thread is ridiculous, I only joined it to argue about why poor people are poor! As far as any credible evidence of ACORNs innocence, you haven't provided any, good luck.
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  William R. Wilsonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  So it was ok for the two filmmakers to break the law, mislead the ACORN employees, and release a doctored video to Fox News - and it was OK for Fox to replay the video as fact over and over again, despite the fact that it was illegal? Yet it was not ok for an ACORN employee to give tax advice to a prostitute who claimed that she was trying to escape her dangerous pimp?
  
  Read the transcripts for yourself, and read the reports for yourself. I've provided links.
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  Mitch Rappposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Not credible sources as far as I am concerned, do you not understand that? I have not seen or heard any evidence from my news sources concerning this, but you expect me to believe a paid employee and the Dailykos that they did something wrong?
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  William R. Wilsonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You still haven't answered my question.
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  Mitch Rappposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry, I answered the way I'm gonna answer, seems pretty clear to me!
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  Ralph Deedsposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Even if the videos hadn't been doctored and everything in them was true it hardly makes sense to condemn an entire organization for the actions of two or three of its employees. As I recall, there were scattered improper voter registration activities, but they were dealt with by ACORN. And ACORN legitimately convinced thousands of people to register and vote who might not otherwise have done so. That's what bothers the GOP which has been trying to suppress the minority vote for many years.
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  William R. Wilsonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Did you read the report smartguy? Did you read the Congressional report that Ralph posted?
  
  Hatchet job.
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Brenda Durhamposted 15 years ago
I doubt that company hired BY ACORN to "independently investigate" ACORN are unbiased.
That's probably the REAL "hatchet job"----chopping up the truth into little scattered bits that hide underneath the liberal tree.
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  Presigoposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I like that line !!! good job !
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  habeeposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Good one, Brenda.
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William R. Wilsonposted 15 years ago
I'm sure those of you who already have your minds made up won't bother, but this is worth reading. Includes links to the full transcripts of the videos.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/9/28 … r-Does-It-(Yes,-*Another*-ACORN-Diary)

quote:

"What planet do you folks live on that you think most of the people staffing ACORN offices (poor, uneducated, living in neighborhoods where petty criminality is just that - petty) actually BELIEVED that James O'Keefe was a pimp? After all, unless I missed it somewhere in the transcripts (I might have, so please show it to me) at no time did James O'Keefe identify himself as a pimp. Despite his outlandish get up, which was given so much credibility by both the Left and the Right that I can only presume (a) none of y'all have ever met, seen, or interacted with a real pimp since the early 1980's and (b) folks have either an addiction to Blaxploitation flicks or (like myself) an addiction to one of the most side-splitting send-ups ever filmed, Attack of the Killer Street Pimps from that 1980's classic, Hollywood Shuffle.

Certainly, we have some indication that that every ACORN worker did not take the visual bait of O'Keefe's ridiculous get-up. In San Bernadino there are multiple indicia that the ACORN worker was playing Hannah Giles and James O'Keefe harder than they were playing her - her statement at one point that she is taking them to meet the 73-year old guy across the street for advice even though she "just met him a few days ago" and "he likes young women" because she "doesn't want to waste ACORN's time" since it would not have "anything to do with this" (San Bernadino TR. P. 37.)"
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SOBFposted 15 years ago
Acorn has been accused of voter fraud, tax fraud, and assisting an ongoing criminal enterprise. Sounds like one could walk away with some serious racketeering charges for such crimes. So, why has no one at Acorn been held legally accountable?

Because none of these accusation carry any merit. I find it amazing how the party of morality can build an entire campaign on lies and people still follow them. A perfect example of this was the voter fraud complaints by seasoned right wing politicians during the Presidential campaign. People who know better than anyone that voter registration fraud and voter fraud are two entirely different things. Yet, over and over again they repeat the words voter fraud. Where is the integrity, honesty, and morality the right claims to be at the core of its value structure.
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tony0724posted 15 years ago
I just want to ask if ACORN is not guilty of anything why did they throw away so many documents locally here when they knew they were going to be investigated ? I would think they would have presented them if they had nothing to hide.
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habeeposted 15 years ago
From everything I've read about ACORN, they're a mixture of good and bad. Some of the branches do excellent work, and others are "shady." Perhaps they just need more oversight of the various arms.
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William R. Wilsonposted 15 years ago
Tony - what city are you talking about, and what were they being investigated for?

In reading the report I found that the people on the videos were part time employees or volunteers, not employed directly by ACORN, but by ACORN housing. The difference is a little ambiguous but ACORN is the organization that does Voter registration and community organizing, and ACORN housing is separate.

What I have read of the Baltimore transcript is very interesting as well. The ACORN advisor starts giving tax advice long before the duo state anything is illegal. And, as I read, I realized that the ACORN employee was trying to get them to file a tax return, which is required by law whether the source of income is legal or not. So in a sense the ACORN employee was trying to get them to follow the law, not assisting them in breaking it.

The transcripts are really worth reading.
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C.J. Wrightposted 15 years ago
If there were something to this, I would expect MSNBC, CNN and ABC to be all over this.....
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  Brenda Durhamposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Nah, not the channels that are still in awe of the "great" Obama.
  They're gutless in the face of the huge political-correctness monster that's been created by such things as the ACLU and PETA and the homosexual agenda and instigated by Obama himself.
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  William R. Wilsonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Hmm. So if the media doesn't report on this, there's nothing to it. On the other hand, if the media does report on it, there's nothing to it.
  
  Heh.
  
  Why don't you read the report and the video transcripts and decide for yourself?
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  blue dogposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  wow, the aclu, peta, and the homosexual agenda...
  
  now there's a segment of society we should fear.
  
  impressive.
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Protecting the constitutional rights of animals to sodomize each other?
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  C.J. Wrightposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Its an important issue you know!
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  William R. Wilsonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I wish I could rate forum posts up. LOL bluedog.
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  sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Let me guess, you're a Christian Conservative?
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  William R. Wilsonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Who, me? Heh.
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  Leta Sposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Last time I checked, news organizations had business people working for them, not koolaid drinkers. Oh, yeah...if it doesn't exist outside your head and scope, it doesn't exist. Forgot. And I guess it really is hopeless then for those who like to make things up in their head and believe it.
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  Arthur Fontesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  lol like these are actual news sources ROFLMAO
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cosetteposted 15 years ago
you know, with the proliferation of YouTube videos and editing software, a lot of these videos are seamless. there's one where supposedly Obama (along with other presidential candidates) were on a podium standing for the National Anthem. it shows every one of them with their hand over their heart, except Obama. add to that, he is fidgeting and rocking back and forth on his heels.

i saw that and thought that just has to be fake. i can't imagine a presidential candidate refusing to place his hand over his heart when that song is played. it is just automatic.

it's kind of creepy how so many things are being presented as factual these days.
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  William R. Wilsonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Creepier still how many people accept what they see and hear unquestioningly.
  
  I'll have to check out that Obama video, thanks!
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  Brenda Durhamposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  While you're at it, check out the ones where he openly advocated youngsters to defy the "old, worn-out" principles of their parents and grandparents.
  Obama wants a nation that follows HIM, not a nation of people with moral ethics or social ethics. He is a power-hungry mega-maniacal-fool.
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  William R. Wilsonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  It's quite a conceptual leap from "he openly advocated youngsters to defy the "old, worn-out" principles of their parents and grandparents."
  
  to
  
  "Obama wants a nation that follows HIM, not a nation of people with moral ethics or social ethics. He is a power-hungry mega-maniacal-fool."
  
  As for me being 'had'... well, I thought the same thing about you guys when Bush was in office.
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  blue dogposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  and how would you describe cheney? or any members of the bush crime syndicate?
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  tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  "Crime syndicate" is juvenile and pointless. They are out of office now, let it go.
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  sandra rinckposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Maybe you should look for other videos of the same event and find one where he does have his hand over his heart.
  
  You will probably find several videos of the same event from different angles of him doing the same thing. Anyways, just find the one where is doing it and I might edit my hub to reflect it.
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  William R. Wilsonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I've seen that video, it's real.
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Brenda Durhamposted 15 years ago
It amazes me that some people don't know when they've been "had". I can understand it at first, but not after this long and this many manipulations of this nation in general by the O.
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Ralph Deedsposted 15 years ago
Congressional report: ACORN didn't violate the law--

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1209/30919.html

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2009 … e-no-laws/

Report Finds Acorn Broke No Laws, New York Times 12-23-09
By JANIE LORBER
The controversial community organizing group Acorn has not broken any laws in the last five years, according to a Congrssional Research Service report released Tuesday evening.

The report, requested by Representative John Conyers, Democrat of Michigan, said that federal agencies, mainly the Departments of Justice and Housing and Urban Development, have awarded money to the group 48 times since 2005. But, in none of those instances did Acorn violate the terms of their funding, the report said.
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  William R. Wilsonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  But I thought they were a 'remarkable criminal enterprise' as Fox News said?
  
  Gosh, if you can't trust Fox News, who can you trust?
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mikelongposted 15 years ago
This topic discusses many things....

I think it's missing an aspect, however.

Who is ACORN?

What do they do?

Why do they exist?

Does anyone here know what 'redlining' is?
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  William R. Wilsonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Good question Mike. Anyone?
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  Ralph Deedsposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  My impression is that ACORN attempts to perform a function for the urban poor similar to that which the Chamber of Commerce and the K Street lobbyists perform for Wall Street banksters, and the pharmaceutical, insurance and Big Oil companies. ACORN registers voters and lobbies for issues that benefit its constituents.
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mikelongposted 15 years ago
Redlining?? ACORN?

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/10/ … 9929.shtml

Who is fighting against whom?

I understand it, who else does?
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  William R. Wilsonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  The Republicans say that the redlining law is outdated. LOL. Yes, it's time to let the banks start giving predatory loans to people who live in the poorest neighborhoods again! Just like the Glass Steagall act was outdated.
  
  I mean, hell, just look at all the good it did for our economy when we repealed Glass Steagall! And started giving Adjustable Rate Mortgages to people who couldn't possibly afford them! This crisis calls for more of the same!
  
  /sarcasm
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mikelongposted 15 years ago
I'll assume that they're all out there reading up....
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William R. Wilsonposted 15 years ago
I think Mike Long had a good idea, so I'm going to reveal some of my own background and experience.

I moved to a poor rural county in Tennessee when I was 10 years old. I went to High School there. This county could be considered Appalachian in culture.

Growing up I saw first hand the effects of poverty on children, families, and communities. I also saw naked racism.

I went away to college and got a liberal arts degree, primarily studying history, religion, and language.

I've worked in a variety of jobs, with people from all walks of life. For most of my adult life I've been what most would call poor. In the 12 years since I graduated college I've never made more than 30,000 in a year.

Mainly this is self imposed. I could easily have taken a different path in life but I chose a life of contemplation and simplicity. So I don't blame anyone for my financial situation.

At the same time, being poor has given me a particular perspective on wealth and power in this country.

I took a job with ACORN in 2004, mainly to assist in the work they were doing around the Presidential election. I left soon after the election, carrying a mixed bag of feelings about what ACORN does and how it does it.

Mike listed some books that have shaped his opinion. I have a few books to add:

The Autobiography of Malcolm X

Dark Ages America - Morris Berman

A People's History of the United States - Howard Zinn

Understanding Power - Noam Chomsky

That's not all but it's a start.
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Joe Perryposted 15 years ago
Quite agree. Let us face it - ACORN is an easy target for those who care nothing for the poor.
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  d camp rantposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  the best thing to do for the poor is to make them uncomfortable in their poverty. why sould one go out and better themselves if everyone is handing them what they need?
  furthermore if these people really cared they would be a non-profit organization. look at how much the Rathke's make a year, that sure would help the poor wouldnt it?
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  blue dogposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  maybe you should work harder at bettering yourself so you don't live in such fear of the poor.
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  Mitch Rappposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Maybe the poor should work harder to better themselves so they are not "the poor!"
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d camp rantposted 15 years ago
where have you been? ACORN is up for voter fraud in dozens of states. Listen to some of the Rathke's speeches and read their blogs. They (along with Jeff Jones-AEIU) are the original followers to the Cloward and Piven theory.
When people are on youtube screaming- workers of the world unite! common sense tells me they are socialist. what about ACORNS roll in the housing "crisis" fiasco with Fannie & Freddy? or Rathke's million dollar scandal? That whole organization should be shut down, not allowed to recieve tax dollars and go global! ACORN also convinced the dallas cowboys to register in another state, along with donald duck! they registered tens of thousands of people in districts that were non-exsistent, over registered other districts. if that was a one person deal it wouldnt have happened all over the country, over and over again. I think those are some realistic reasons for the GOP to be upset about. why would any politician want to suppress votes?
Obama won the Independents and moderate vote, not because of minorities.(because he ran as a moderate, and only one news station ran the truth) it's kinda odd NBC didnt run anything on Obamas voting record or Rev. Wright, and now Jeff Immelt is on Obamas advisory board. and it's kinda funny how we drop our missle defense for russia and two days later G.E. ( Immelts other co.) gets a millon dollar deal with Russia.
Obama ran under the flag of change and transparicy- so far it's politics as usual. what happened to no lobbyist and no pork spending? I will not sign a bill that has pet project spending in it? Politics as usual.
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Uninvited Writerposted 15 years ago
Yeah, those poor people have got it too good...
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  d camp rantposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  do some homework, google images of poor people in africa and china, then look around our country, our poor still have houses, utilities, foodstamps, ect. the fact is our poor live like kings compared to other countries. i dont see any poor people walking miles for a bucket full of muddy water for the whole family to live off of. it is clear how i feel, plus we donate 10% of our income to different org. on top of 10% tithings. thats 20% total of our monthly income. how much do you "bleeding hearts" donate? what do you do to make a difference? besides complain on the internet?
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  blue dogposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  it's a pity about that tithing thing...
  
  10%.
  
  oh, my, god.
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  Mitch Rappposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  What is it you do to help the poor? Anything?
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  d camp rantposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  yes, like i said, we donate 20% of our monthly income to charities and our church.
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  Mitch Rappposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I wasn't talking to you
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Uninvited Writerposted 15 years ago
You do realize that some of the poor have 3 jobs and are still poor? Most of the poor are the working poor.
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  Mitch Rappposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I don't know that, no. Do you have some proof of this or is it just what you want me to believe?
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  d camp rantposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  if you have 3 jobs, you are not poor, you have poor budgeting skills. they have classes for that and books, and you can take it upon yourself to better yourself- start a buisness, go to school and get a degree,ect.
  it sounds like you want the world, now and free! life doesnt work that way. it takes years to achive anything of value. and it takes even more hard work to stay at that comfortable level.
  thats typical liberal mentality, give me it all, now! i'm entitled to it. whats all this earn it stuff?
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  blue dogposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  enjoy that "stay at that comfortable level" while you can. hopefully you're independently wealthy enough to buy a brain and then enroll in the class necessary to teach you how to use it.
  
  it's called the school of hard knocks. sounds like you know little about it. if you'd ever been there, you'd never forget it. people like you are the ones i will enjoy watching grovel when the time comes for you to grow your own food. you'll be the first one to eat your last packet of seeds.
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  Mitch Rappposted 15 years agoin reply to this
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  d camp rantposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  thats really childish, i dont agree with you so i cant wait to watch you suffer. lol! nice.
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  Mitch Rappposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  That's usually how the liberal argument goes, its a long tradition of mediocrity.
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  blue dogposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  your attitude about the poor is what is childish.
  
  the status of my agreement with you is irrelevant.
  
  regarding your last packet of seeds, having to watch you "suffer" only validates what i say.
  
  go tithe. while you certainly will not buy your salvation, you can make damn sure to lease it while you're still alive.
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  Mitch Rappposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Meanwhile, you will continue to whine about the bad,bad rich! Do something for someone then get back to us about how much you care.
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  William R. Wilsonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  So I see we've avoided the question of whether it's ok to mislead people and film them illegally in order to score political points.
  
  Anyone?
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  blue dogposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  as uninvited writer states, quite frankly it's none of your business. but i'd be happy to drag your bloated ego into the countless villages i've been to in mexico and then watch how many of them invite your imperialistic attitude to their dinner table, or to sleep under their roof.
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  Mitch Rappposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  The problem is you couldn't drag me anywhere, could you?
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  Mitch Rappposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I don't want a single penny of any donation I give to go to Mexico, I am concerned about those who live in my Country, Mexico has you, that should get them....somewhere.
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Uninvited Writerposted 15 years ago
What do you do?

This is not a case of whose is bigger. It is so easy to attack the poor when you don't know anything about their lives.
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  d camp rantposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  way to avoid the question.
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  Uninvited Writerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  What I do to help others is none of your business, I don't do it to make myself look better.
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  William R. Wilsonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  This.
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  livelongerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  All truly altruistic giving is done anonymously.
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  Mitch Rappposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Really? Always? Glad you know everything otherwise I would have to use Google.
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  livelongerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Neither you nor the other conservative whining about liberals being lazy and mediocre have answered these questions:
  If liberals are lazy and conservatives work hard, why is that the wealthiest US states tend to be blue and the poorest red? Why are red states overwhelmingly net recipients of federal aid and blue states overwhelmingly donors? Why do most innovations seem to come out of liberal areas of the country?
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  Mitch Rappposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I responded to it, did you miss that?
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  William R. Wilsonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I saw it. It wasn't an answer, sorry.
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  Mitch Rappposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  If livelonger doesn't know the answer then like you, livelonger should use G O O G L E!
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  William R. Wilsonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  So as usual you make assertions and don't back them up?
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  Mitch Rappposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Did I make an assertion?
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  William R. Wilsonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You said:
  
  Which implies pretty strongly that you know the answer.
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  Mitch Rappposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Is that an assertion that I made? Let me see, I asked this person a question and that question is an assertion? You really need to work on this.
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  William R. Wilsonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Ok. So you don't know the answer then?
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  Mitch Rappposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  as far as you know.
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  d camp rantposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  oh, you must be talking about how well the I.O.U. system is working in California, not to mention the extra 10% they started taking out of working peoples paycheck.
  if not Cali then surely you must be speaking of the great state of Vermont. I think there are hard working liberals and republicans, just as there are lazy ones too. party affiliation has little to do with personal responsibilty or work ethics. some of my best friends are liberals; where we connect is on values.
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  livelongerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I'm not talking about the effectiveness of state governments. I'm talking about the per-capita income, innovation and largesse of the states according to how liberal or conservative they are. Conservative states are poorer, relatively low in innovation, and more likely to be recipients of federal aid than donors. The cognitive dissonance between how conservatives see themselves and how they actually are is really remarkable.
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  Mitch Rappposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I think maybe you should do some research on these "poor" areas.
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  d camp rantposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  basicly! lol
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  livelongerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  It's "basically" and I've done the research. The "what" is clear. You still haven't answered "why." My guess is relative disdain for open-mindedness and education in conservative areas of the country.
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  Mitch Rappposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I doubt you will find many conservatives among those poor, so if you have done the research what is the answer?
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  livelongerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Red states are majority conservative and they are poorer than blue/majority-liberal states. Red states are generally net recipients of federal aid, while blue states are generally net donors. I'm not sure how many times I have to say the same thing without you throwing in a bunch of red herrings.
  
  As for why, my guess is, as I said before, conservatives have a relative disdain for education, science and open-mindedness. These tend to be wealth-builders.
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  Mitch Rappposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You are not even close to the answer, but nice try! My guess is you don't really want to say why these States are poorer, that would defeat your entire "slave state mentality"
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  livelongerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Unreal. Thank you for confirming my hypothesis.
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  Mitch Rappposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you for realizing your passive aggressive racism.
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  William R. Wilsonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You must not know many poor people.
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  Mitch Rappposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I do a lot, but that is the difference between those who whine about things and those that actually try to change things. Government programs have not changed anything but those of us who give charitable donations make a difference. Its easy to see those that want to help and those who want others to help, its obvious what side he falls on!
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Uninvited Writerposted 15 years ago
Well, I admire you two if you managed to become successful without any help from anyone ever...
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  Mitch Rappposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Success is of course relative. It depends on what you call help, my parents took care of me until I was old enough to do that myself, that's help. I worked to put myself through school and it took longer than your typical student. I have managed to make some money, so if thats successful, I am.
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  d camp rantposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  all it takes is disipline and sacrifice. that doesnt mean we never have hard times. and im by no means rich. we make a goal and take little steps towards that goal. example- it took me a year to save the money for my flat screen. we dont use credit cards, i went and worked a little longer and a few days extra.
  rather than pay twice as much with credit, and giving in to that erge to have it now. now i own it, and appreciate it that much more.
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  d camp rantposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  urge, sorry! lol
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  discipline, also sorry
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Uninvited Writerposted 15 years ago
You have no idea about my life. I have a job where I earn more than minumum wage, I work hard, I am barely in debt. I don't expect anything from anyone.

You don't have to be poor yourself to understand how hard life is for some.

I repeat, I am glad for you if you became a success without help from anyone else ever.
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livelongerposted 15 years ago
If liberals are lazy and conservatives work hard, why is that the wealthiest US states tend to be blue and the poorest red? Why are red states overwhelmingly net recipients of federal aid and blue states overwhelmingly donors? Why do most innovations seem to come out of liberal areas of the country?
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  Mitch Rappposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Do you really not know the answer to that question? I really don't care about Red states vs Blue states, my State is probably the wealthiest in the Country and that makes me happy.
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  William R. Wilsonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  This.
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Mitch Rappposted 15 years ago
The majority of poor in this Country are their own worst enemy, managing money is a skill that you have to learn in order to save. If you spend it as fast as you get it like children do, then you are probably going to be poor. Like Rant said, the poor in this country are rich compared to most of the world!
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Mortgagestar1posted 15 years ago
ACORN's co founder stole from the organization. Various members of ACORN have and are rolling over on thier corrupt activities. Al Frankin was fraudulently elected as most others involved in counting ficticious names and dead people. When the Republican's take control agter the 2010 elections, there will be REAL investigations.
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Uninvited Writerposted 15 years ago
So, what do you consider "credible sources"?
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  Mitch Rappposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Certainly not the Dailykos or a paid employee of ACORN. How about a report done by a real independent investigator not paid for by anyone who has anything to gain by the outcome, got one of those?
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  William R. Wilsonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You can be your own independent investigator not paid by ACORN.
  
  Compare the transcripts to the videos.
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  William R. Wilsonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  And, this is interesting - an illegal videotape that has been doctored is a 'credible' source?
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  Mitch Rappposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  who said it was doctored? Your sources?
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  William R. Wilsonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Compare the video to the transcript and find out for yourself. Doctored, and illegal too.
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  d camp rantposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  video aside, what about all the other scandals? from dozens of counts of voter fraud, to Rathke stealing millions and nothing is done?
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  William R. Wilsonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  The quick answer - ACORN, the organization, has not been found guilty of committing vote fraud. They hire people to register voters. If the employees don't register voters, they lose their jobs. Thus - people turn in faked voter reg. forms.
  
  Individuals who work for ACORN have been found guilty of committing voter fraud. Not ACORN.
  
  ACORN, in fact, pays employees to go over every voter reg. card and flag the suspicious ones. They then turn those in to the state with flags. They are required by law to turn in every voter registration card, faked or not.
  
  Then, funny, when a Republican secretary of state sees the flagged voter registration cards, he or she makes a big stink about ACORN committing fraud - even though ACORN has made the best possible effort to prevent this fraud.
  
  If what the accusers are saying is true, I could fill out a reg card with false information, give it to you, and if you turned it in you could be held accountable for my lie and charged with vote fraud. See how ridiculous this is?
  
  In any case - even if the voter reg. fraud was a malicious conspiracy, how would it actually translate into falsified votes? Think about the logistics of such an operation. It wouldn't be easy, and there would be plenty of evidence of it by now.
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  Mitch Rappposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  State of Louisiana is investigating ACORN as an organization, I'm sure the truth will come out then.
  
  "Individuals who work for ACORN have been found guilty of committing voter fraud. Not ACORN."
  
  Yeah,employees of a company would never push the product of said company! I will say one thing for you, you're funny!
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  C.J. Wrightposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Didn't the Director of ACORN in Nevada plead guilty to conspiracy for organizing a scheme that illegally paid workers to register new voters?
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  William R. Wilsonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  From the Las Vegas Sun Times:
  
  http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2009/oc … rn-unique/
  
  I can't disagree with the last sentence. If you pay employees in that that way you are creating an incentive for fraud.
  
  But that's not the same as committing vote fraud.
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  Mitch Rappposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Its just facilitating it!
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  William R. Wilsonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Strangely enough, though,
  
  "After more than a year of investigating, authorities have been unable to document any case in which an individual was illegally registered to vote, or illegally cast a ballot because of ACORN’s actions."
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  C.J. Wrightposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Right, just legal wrangling. Thats why the director plead guilty to "conspiracy".
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  C.J. Wrightposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Of course nothing can be proven. Its a secret ballot. Even in the event of illegal registering its nearly impossible to prove. Unless of course you register the deceased, even then intent has to be proven. By intent I mean who intended to commit fraud, the organization, an individual within the organization or the individual solicited to register.
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  William R. Wilsonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  The secret ballot has nothing to do with it. Have you voted before? You go up to the poll worker, tell them your name, they check to see if you are on a list, mark you off, you go vote.
  
  It might be possible for a single individual to vote maybe twice in the same precinct using fake names under this system, but after the 3rd or 4th time, chances are someone will recognize you.
  
  Maybe you could drive from precinct to precinct and vote under an assumed name at each one. But - you'd have to have a list of the fake name you were going to use at each precinct. You'd have to drive from precinct to precinct, stand in line, and give the correct fake name at each precinct. Not a simple task.
  
  Consider the logistics. If you had multiple people engaged in this it would get very unwieldy very quickly. Someone would have to maintain lists of the fake names, etc. etc.
  
  In addition, in many states you would have to present an ID card for each fake name. If the fake name had been flagged by officials once it was turned in, you would be caught and arrested for attempting to commit fraud.
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  sandra rinckposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You know, the funny thing about it is that I have voted without my id and I have voted needing my id. During the presidential election I went to the wrong voting place. I gave them my name and they handed me an envelope that I signed stating that I would not vote twice they did not ask for my id.
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  William R. Wilsonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Not sure what state you live in Sandra but you were most likely given a provisional ballot. In cases like yours when you forget your ID or whatever, you can still vote, but the provisional ballots are subject to review to prevent fraud. If you tried to cast a fraudulent provisional ballot chances are it wouldn't get counted and you'd be charged with fraud.
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  sandra rinckposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  And the point is, I still voted without my id. California of all places though.
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  William R. Wilsonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  http://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/electio … sional.htm
  
  "No provisional ballot is counted or precluded from being counted until the elections official goes through the detailed process to determine whether a voter’s provisional ballot should be counted. (Elections Code sections 14310-14311, 15350, and 15100-15112.)
  
  Equally important, every provisional ballot -- whether it is counted or rejected -- and provisional ballot envelope is kept by the the elections official for a minimum of 22 months for every election in which a candidate for federal office is on the ballot. (Elections Code sections 17300-17506.)"
  
  Like I said, if you wanted to vote fraudulently, the provisional ballot would be the wrong way to do it.
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  C.J. Wrightposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You are right concerning provisional ballots, the same applies for absentee ballots. Voter fraud when it occurs is nearly undetectible.
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  C.J. Wrightposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Easy there, of course I've voted. No record is kept of who voted post election. Thats the law. So unless you are caught in the act, which as you mentioned is highly unlikely. Voter fraud is hard to accomplish and even harder to prove.
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  C.J. Wrightposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Also, in most states the vote audit and certification is a point in time type of audit. Duplicates are found, duplicates are removed. Generally no investigation. I've also worked as a polling place volunteer....
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  William R. Wilsonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  What state are you in? In Tennessee it's public information whether a person voted in a particular election, and whether that person voted early or on election day.
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  William R. Wilsonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  http://www.whovoted.net/motivation.php#whatdata
  
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  C.J. Wrightposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  First that site is ran by Stanford U. Its not an official list, nor is it a complete list. Again records can be access if they are available and a request is approved. If the ballot did not have a fed election on it, none of these rules are neccessarily enforced. For instance can you list the Tennessee annotated code listing for the statute that you state makes your voting list a "Public Record"
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  William R. Wilsonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  http://www.michie.com/tennessee/lpext.d … JD_2-2-138
  
  2-2-138. Voter registration lists — Purchase by citizens. —
  
  (a) In counties of this state having a population in excess of one hundred eighty thousand (180,000) according to the United States census of 1970 or any subsequent United States census, or in any computerized county, it is the duty of the county election commission to prepare or cause to be prepared each month a listing, by voting precinct, of all persons registered to vote in each precinct during the preceding month. However, in the discretion of the commissioners of the county election commission, such listing may be prepared on a bimonthly basis.
  
  (b) Such list, and any other voter registration information such as voter history, if compiled, shall be available for purchase for a price not to exceed the cost of production. This list shall be available to any person who certifies on a form provided by the state election commission that such list will be used for political purposes. The state election commission shall establish a uniform cost for this information. Any county election commission whose cost of production exceeds this rate may petition the state election commission and be granted an increase upon establishing its actual cost to the satisfaction of the state election commission. If the information is provided on computer generated media such as disk, diskette, tape, telecommunications or any other form of magnetic media, then the information shall be provided in non-proprietary and non-encrypted form. Minimum data standards shall be EBCDIC (Extended Binary Coded Decimal Interchange Code), ASCII (American Standard Code Information Interchange) or BCD (Binary Coded Decimal).
  
  (c) The county election commission in counties with a population over two hundred fifty thousand (250,000) according to the 1980 census shall make voter registration lists available for purchase by any interested citizen, upon request and payment of the cost, at a price not in excess of the cost to prepare and publish such lists. The county election commission in counties with a population over two hundred fifty thousand (250,000) according to the 1980 census shall act upon such request within seven (7) days of receipt of the request, and reasons for rejection or modification of such request, if any, shall be set out in writing.
  
  http://www.michie.com/tennessee/lpext.d … JD_2-2-127
  
  2-2-127. Permanent registration records open to inspection — Social security number redaction and use. —
  
  (a) Permanent registration records as public records shall be kept in a safe place by the commission, shall be available for public inspection, and may not be removed from the office of the commission ...
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  C.J. Wrightposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I volunteered in Louisiana.
  
  http://state.tn.us/sos/news/press.20091120.pdf
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  William R. Wilsonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  "Dozens" of counts of voter fraud actually seem to be about 1 dozen. As for embezzlement - it's not ACORNs fault someone stole from them. It was also Wade Rathke's brother, not Wade.
  
  Embezzlement happens all the time. Does this make every corporation that is defrauded in this way a "criminal organization?"
  
  http://www.northcountrygazette.org/2008 … _embezzle/
  
  http://www2.tbo.com/content/2008/sep/26 … ment-case/
  
  http://www.extranetevolution.com/extran … arges.html
  
  http://wattsfamily.com/?p=174
  
  etc. etc. etc.
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  d camp rantposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  these other companies do not recieve tax money, nor do they go to presidential dinners, nor is there several speeches with the current president saying "i have the same agenda as acorn and seiu." or "when i want to talk about healthcare, i go to andy stern." so yes, there is coruption, yes, there are greedy people on the planet. i dont want the people elected to be on the same team as these corupt indivduals. that goes for both parties.
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  William R. Wilsonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Research Blackwater and KBR.
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  C.J. Wrightposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  What those are bad people????LOL You know it was a Republican who warned us about these types.....
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  d camp rantposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  your so ready to point fingers, you don't realize when someone is agreeing with you. first, do you know the rathke's? why do you take it personal when someone points out something bad about one of them? of course there are bad republicans,pointing out a parties bad choices can be done for both sides all day long. so just because a republican did wrong, a liberal gets to do something wrong back? is this your rationality? i know what blackwater is, i know what kbr is all about, i know what acorn and seiu is pulling off too. they are all guilty. did you donate millions to Obama campaign or did those greedy bankers and fat cats on wall street?
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  C.J. Wrightposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  UHH that was the point of my sarcasm....sorry you missed it.
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livelongerposted 15 years ago
Haha, not an answer. So the "conservative" case for hard work, self-sufficiency, picking yourself up by your own bootstraps, etc. is a whole lot of smoke and mirrors, in the form of glib one-liners, of course.
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  Mitch Rappposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Hard work and self sufficiency are not the keys to success? I think you would be the only one who could possibly think that.
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  d camp rantposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  i try to live by those values and my life has been better for it. I had my hand out until 06'.
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  Mitch Rappposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Newsflash, Government handouts will make you rich!
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  livelongerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Can you read? Red states get more handouts from the government, yet are still poorer.
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  Ralph Deedsposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  If you're a defense contractor or Goldman Sachs or a pharmaceutical company.
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  C.J. Wrightposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Or GM, GE, UAW or a contractor who recieved "No Bid" Contracts related to the stimulus bill.
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  Mitch Rappposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  dont forget SEIU good to be the kings favorite, huh?
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  C.J. Wrightposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Is there an "ACORN" of truth to that statement? LOL
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  d camp rantposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Let's not forget we owe billions to third world countries too. All that global warming- I mean climate change.
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  d camp rantposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I'm sure that money will go to cleaning gasses in the air, not the Dictator running the country.
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  Ralph Deedsposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  
  "Dictator?"
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  d camp rantposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  yes sir, dictators tend to run those countries, sometimes they are military too. look at the "we are the world" campaign. that was in the 80's, where are those millions raised? Africa looks pretty much the same today as it did before "we are the world"
  with the exception to Bush and his personal donations and help with AIDS(one of the very few things I give the man credit for)
  that money went to the dictators to build their army and fund children digging diamonds out of mines so our "poor" people can run around with "bling-bling"
  if you can't find these "dictators" in the third world countries they abuse I guess I could post there names and countries, but i would prefer you do that homework yourself.
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Mortgagestar1posted 15 years ago
I am returning back to Joint Base Balad, Iraq. Nancy Pelosi's husband is a major financier with the building contractors and have made millions, just like Diana Fienstein's husband getting a twelve millin dollar non bid government contract. This war has and is making many a liberal Democrat wealthier. Research for youselves!
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  C.J. Wrightposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Don't forget Murtha...he's a Dem too. I believe his son's company is making a mint on the war as well.
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  William R. Wilsonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  The slime is on both sides, no denying that.
  
  But - how do we fix that? You can attack the democrats for their corruption, and I can attack Republicans for theirs. In most cases it is the same thing, just different labels.
  
  Short of a revolution, how do we enact meaningful change?
  
  I think ACORN does good work, and if corrupt, it is no more or less corrupt than Blackwater, KBR, Humana, or Pfizer. Pfizer makes life saving pharmaceuticals, KBR builds infrastructure that poor people in Iraq will benefit from, and ACORN works as an advocate for the poor.
  
  We can completely destroy the system we have and go to something else (not an attractive option in my book), or... well, what else can we do? Realistically?
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  C.J. Wrightposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Honesty. Thats what's needed. The electorate needs to be honest with themselves. We need to understand that years of picking a political candidate like we would a favorite football team have cost us dearly. That "WE THE PEOPLE" are just as responsible for the mess we are in today than anyone else. In fact more so.
  
  We need to be ready to fully participate in government. That means getting to know your candidate. Not accepting a readers digest version thats delivered on the local news, national news, pulpit or community organization head quarters. All too often the aforementioned entities only muddy the waters with their pet issues. Issues like abortion, gun ownership, etc. These issues are used only to easily divide the electorate neatly along party lines. In reality no politician that runs for candidacy today will do anything that will appreciably change those policies. Meanwhile real issues like trade deficits and illegal immigration are gutting this country. We are loosing our since of National pride.
  
  You spoke of Blackwater. I mentioned Ike. He warned us of the dangers the "Military Industrial Complex" could pose. We are there! Since the end of the "Great Depression" this country has been led into war after war mostly due to failed foriegn policy. A foriegn policy that is influenced by special intrest. The Oil and Gas Lobby, the DOD Contractor, the Banker. I'm so tired of hearing people talk about how our young people are "over there fighting for our freedom" Thats such a lie. They are cleaning up numerous politicians messes and fighting for your right to drive a SUV at under 4 dollars per gallon. I'm also tired of hearing people running down our Troops, our leaders who had to make tough decisions in the face of the greatest tragedy since Pearl Harbor.
  In short personal responsibility is the key. Take care of you and yours first. Live with in your means. Achieve all that you can. Help someone else along the way.
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mikelongposted 15 years ago
Just following the riots in 1992 both a Republican and Democrat of note in Southern California politics made statements....

The first said that all illegal aliens who participated in the looting of stores during the unrest should be arrested and deported....

The Democrat went further....she said that not only should illegal residents be sent packing, but that their citizen children should have their legal status revoked, and that they should be thrown out of the country too...

I'll post their names...I don't have them right now...

I see the Democrats and Republicans as two heads of the same beast....

The Democrats provide a "softer" (their men..Clinton, Kennedy, Obama, are more charismatic I suppose than their Repubican counterparts?) alternative to the Republicans while still making sure the same policies are being continued...
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The ACORN Scandal: Videos used voiceovers

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