Americans are "extremely worried" about the country in 2022

Jump to Last Post 1-17 of 17 discussions (184 posts)
  1. tsmog profile image84
    tsmogposted 2 years ago

    I sat this morning sipping my savory coffee reading Facebook looking for humorous quips, cat and pup videos, intriguing discoveries of history, science, and life hacks, of course auto racing, and posts of friends sharing life. Then I wandered to what am I most hopeful about and, too, most worried about. I thought along the lines of personal, regional, then jumped to national, and finally worldwide since I have friends in different countries.

    I did some looking about if what I was hopeful and/or worried about was in line with others. I discovered an interesting article of many linked below. Consider this article is before Ukraine became a paramount change to concerns affecting everything.

    So, what do you think? Will 2022 be a time of hope or worry?

    Mood of the Nation: Majority of Americans are "extremely worried" about the country in 2022 by APM Research Lab (01/12/22)
    https://www.apmresearchlab.org/motn/hope-worry-2022

    Another interesting article

    Americans united in worry over political divisions, but not much else, poll finds by Roll Call (2/3/22)
    https://rollcall.com/2022/02/03/civilit … iden-poll/

    Edit: Another interesting article/poll from Ipsos (12/17/21)
    Do Americans really expect 2022 to be a better year?
    https://www.ipsos.com/en-us/news-polls/ … redictions

    1. Credence2 profile image79
      Credence2posted 2 years agoin reply to this

      I think back to another year characterized by extreme turmoil, 1968. Vietnam abroad and political strife at home.

      I am not optimistic regarding this period because the lines of partisanship and division are so great. We are now reintroduced to the threat of global nuclear war, one that many of us dismissed over the last generation or two. We are now seeing a global tyrant not far from the 20th century kind that I thought that we have moved away from.

      People seem more than willing to dismiss the democratic process and "the rules" to have their way and that way is contrary to the principles of fairness and progress which has always allowed us to have confidence in the future regardless of the problems during Our darkest days, the Great Depression, for example. All of that is disappearing. 

      The threat against "democracy" is my biggest fear. When those that are willing to unravel the system to get their way are challenging us at the very geographic heart of our nation, that is cause for concern. When tyrannical and authoritarian values and attitudes are now in vogue and seen as virtues and strengths, I have cause to worry.

      Yes, TSmog, there is cause for concern, in a big way.

    2. Sharlee01 profile image89
      Sharlee01posted 2 years agoin reply to this

      In my view, we are a nation deeply divided. The last president was anti-Government overreach to a good extent. We that appreciated Government staying out of our lives truely felt more comfortable with an administration that in many ways provided less Government overreach. The new administration has ideologies that promote Government overreach. So, to put it mildly --- vinegar and oil don't mix, well.

      The new administration's governmental overreach is widely felt in all aspects as a stimulus to prop up our economy. Which some feel caused the deep inflating that we are seeing right now.  I Could go on to list a mile-long list of the new administration's overreaches, but won't due to sounding redundant.

      So, for me, I am feeling that over the past 6 years we have dealt with oil and water, and it has left a society that is fearful on many counts, depending on the individual.

      So, what do you think? Will 2022 be a time of hope or worry"

      Generally worry, as the polls you offer have shown. Personally, I have hope that the 2022 elections will sweep, and bring back a bit of the stability I felt under the last Republican administration. Because I was very pleased with the direction the country was headed. My main worry is getting to November without any more damage to the Nation.

      I don't see any solution at this point in our history to mend the "Great Divide". The country has split due to vastly opposing ideologies.

      I enjoyed both articles.

      1. Kathleen Cochran profile image76
        Kathleen Cochranposted 2 years agoin reply to this

        " the stability I felt under the last Republican administration." Stability? January 6 and an outgoing president who wouldn't even attend the inauguration of his opponent. The last administration tore the fabric of our nation to shreds. Stability?

        1. Sharlee01 profile image89
          Sharlee01posted 2 years agoin reply to this

          Kathleen,

          My comment in regard to feeling stable under the last Republican administration gave my view of the entire four years of that administration. I made no mention of the Jan 6th riot, which was a couple of hours of a four-year period I referred to.  Naturally, I was as upset, disappointed, and well ashamed of this display of violence as most Americans.

          My comment was my view, my truth about how I felt about the four years of the Trump administration.  I certainly don't feel the few hours of riot would sway my view. It is clear we come to an opinion very differently. Four years versus four hours... 

          You shared your view, well taken.

          1. wilderness profile image94
            wildernessposted 2 years agoin reply to this

            When it comes to instability over those four years I would have been a lot more concerned about the nearly unending series of riots, all over the country.  When a single city has violent rioting, every night for months on end, it cannot be considered "stable" at all.  When we see long term efforts, particularly the violent ones that were common, it is not "stable" (BLM "protests" come to mind).  When our citizenry demands, violently, that we remove police from their neighborhood or that of others, it is not stable.

            There are many signs that our country is in a period of massive instability, and those signs were perhaps most common during Trump's period.  Not from his actions, but from general unrest and dissatisfaction of a President many did not like or accept.  When we see such activity (vs general talk and complaint) it is not a sign of stability.

            We are not stable; we are on the cusp of massive changes in our society.

            1. Ken Burgess profile image77
              Ken Burgessposted 2 years agoin reply to this

              Much of the rioting and instability was being manufactured from the top down.

              There are textbooks written about how to destabilize a government, it is no surprise that those efforts were used on America.

              Follow the money.  The money comes from key individuals who have Billions to play with, they in turn fund a variety of destabilizing efforts through various non-profits. 

              In addition to any government efforts by the CIA or FBI or who-ever that give marching orders to a variety of institutions within the country.

              One should look at historical examples, such as how Ukraine had its Orange Revolution, the Serbian's their Bulldozer Revolution, and so on.

              George Soros, billionaire hedge-fund manager, together with the National Democratic Institute, an international arm of the US Democratic Party and through the Soros Foundation, supported many protests throughout a variety of nations to cause unrest and the overthrow of governments, from Georgia to Lebanon to Ukraine.

            2. Sharlee01 profile image89
              Sharlee01posted 2 years agoin reply to this

              You make a good point, but I was speaking about how I felt in "my world" so to say. The riots did not really affect me. We had a police chief that nip it in the bud quickly. We did have a large protest at our capitol but it was peaceful, and no violence occurred.  I long ago gave up on liberal cities and their problems. Did the summer of love bother me? Yes, but I felt comfortable due to the stability in my community. Was your community affected by the riots?  If so I can see where you would not feel the stability I felt.

              Hey, as I said I felt safe, I felt the economy was good, and I felt that the previous administration was addressing many problems, too many to list. But that is just my view.  I can honestly say I felt pretty dam good under the previous administration.

              In regard to Trump not being accepted by some, that was a clear, fact.
              But was that my problem?  I guess you are correct this to some would be a sign of instability.  I was able to sit back and just appreciate what I felt were the positives that I saw happening in the Country.

              I can fully agree we are not stable at this point in any respect.
              Are we on the cusp of a massive change in our society? I don't think so, I think the people will right the ship. I have faith in the American people. Yes, it's been pretty screwy as of late, but  I think Americans have had enough of the "change"  this administration has been advocating. 

              At any rate, what will be will be...

    3. gmwilliams profile image85
      gmwilliamsposted 2 years agoin reply to this

      In my assessment, inflation is a worry among Americans in 2022.  People are concerned about the "power of purchase" & cost of living regarding the diminishing dollar.   Costs regarding necessities are rising & some people have to do w/o certain necessities in order to make ends meet.   This especially applies to senior citizens who are on a very limited income. 

      The upper & upper echelon of the upper middle classes aren't so much affected by inflation.  They still have the means to live comfortably & beyond.   However, it is the solidly middle class who is affected by inflation.  This class is wondering what to decrease in order to make ends meets.  Inflation has a devastating, even paralyzing effect on the 3 lower socioeconomic classes i.e. the lower middle, working, & lower classes.  These aforementioned classes are the ones who have to do without in order to make ends meet.

      Even though some Americans are worried about political divisions, the smart Americans realize that they are getting s*******d by both parties.   There are some Americans who believe that the two parties don't care about their socioeconomic predicament. They assert that the politicians are enrichening themselves at their expenses.  These same Americans are turning to populism & want a third party who is more attuned to their needs.

      Younger Black people feel that the Democratic Party hasn't solved their issues.  They believe that the Democratic Party is for everyone except them.  They are turning away from the Democratic Party because of this.

      1. Ken Burgess profile image77
        Ken Burgessposted 2 years agoin reply to this

        You really are quite insightful, directly to the heart of it.

        This is why we got Trump in 2016.  It is why we will get change in 2024.

        Lets hope whoever it is has the demeanor of B. Clinton or B. Obama with more ability to make change than Trump had.

    4. abwilliams profile image69
      abwilliamsposted 2 years agoin reply to this

      Where to start, I was watching the Nickelodeon channel with my THREE YEAR OLD grandson today and it was loaded up with commercials about an upcoming episode of BABY SHARK featuring Cardi B. Yes that Cardi B!
      My daughter showed me one of her videos. It is border line porn and the lyrics...not any better.

      At first I thought the kids will not know who she is, hers will just be the voice of a character, okay, I can live with that.  But no, there's a picture of her being shown during the commerical and she is being promoted in it.
      WHY!?!?!?
      So there's that while my Governor is being accused of being... {well, name it} because he dares to protect Parental Rights and keep sex talks out of K-3 classes, because he feels as most Parents, they are much too young to have the talk and the talk should be given by Parents, when Parents feel the time is right!!!

      MSM is calling it the Don't say Gay bill, although the word isn't in the bill and the obvious intent is to protect Parental Rights {to know what goes on in their child's classroom} and to protect young children.
      In today's warped world, trashy Cardi B gets early access to impressionable children while the Gov that dares to care gets trashed.
      We aren't in a good place!

      1. Fayetteville Faye profile image60
        Fayetteville Fayeposted 2 years agoin reply to this

        Well I always monitored and decided what my children would be able to watch under my roof as they were growing up. Would you like the government to reach into our airwaves and control television programming too?

        1. abwilliams profile image69
          abwilliamsposted 2 years agoin reply to this

          You taught children? You're a Mom!

          1. Fayetteville Faye profile image60
            Fayetteville Fayeposted 2 years agoin reply to this

            I do not understand your point

    5. christalluna1124 profile image67
      christalluna1124posted 2 years agoin reply to this

      I really enjoyed this. For me it is a time of worry. I'm not sure we can take many more years of the Biden administration. The food and gas prices for me as a senior are horrible. Praying for a very red sweep in November.

      Followed !

      1. Ken Burgess profile image77
        Ken Burgessposted 2 years agoin reply to this

        We need to sweep these over age 80 relics of another era out of DC.

        Pelosi, Schumer, McConnell, the Whips, the President we are talking people who have been in DC between 35 and 50 years!

        They are not the solution to anything, they are the problem, regardless of party.  They are fat cats set in their ways and too old to comprehend the damage they are doing to all Americans.

        1. Valeant profile image86
          Valeantposted 2 years agoin reply to this

          Common ground.

        2. Sharlee01 profile image89
          Sharlee01posted 2 years agoin reply to this

          100%

      2. Sharlee01 profile image89
        Sharlee01posted 2 years agoin reply to this

        Me too! The poor are suffering the most, and seniors that live on a small income. But, Joe said we all need to buck up and be ready for food shortages. LOL

        I have great faith we will sweep in Nov -- and have a brand new Republican President in 2024. I look forward to not being frightened of what this man will do next.

  2. Kathryn L Hill profile image77
    Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago

    The problem is the deep state Left and also Right.
    Our parties have been tainted and polluted.
    How can we get back to out true roots, party wise?
    - form pretty New Democratic/Republican parties and by-pass the
    Ugly old ones?

    Could we bypass the shadow government by regrouping ourselves according to our true wants and desires?

    Wouldn't that be great?

    Sadly, impossible without a truly out-of-the box leader to come upon the scene.
    And with our luck that would be the Antichrist. sad

  3. Valeant profile image86
    Valeantposted 2 years ago

    I'm not as worried about inflation since the 19 countries who use the Euro report a 7.5% inflation rate, right on par with our 7.9%.  This, to anyone with a brain, signifies that it's a global problem caused by supply chains and pandemic recovery.  The comical accusations that this falls on Biden, while ignoring when those supply chains were broken or how many stimulus packages were passed that added to the problem.

    Limited government is fine, but when we elect leaders that undermine its basic principles, as we had with the last administration, that is the greatest danger to our country currently.  An unstable autocrat like Putin or Kim Jong Un are a close second.

    Congress needs to address the laws pertaining to immigration.  The remain in Mexico policy made sense and should be put into law.  Legal immigration is good, but the penalties for an illegal attempt need to be much harsher to dissuade it.  We can be tougher but stop shot of creating policies to dissuade that violate human rights like the child separation policy.

    Jobs and Wages are up, unemployment is down.  The stock market is fairly stable, although not breaking any more records as the global inflation noted earlier is holding it back.  The spike in crime in urban areas that began in mid-2020 will need to be addressed more aggressively.

    In terms of climate change, energy markets will continue to be a bit volatile as the country looks to increase renewables and move away from gas and oil.  That's not a negative in the long run, but should be expected.

    All-in-all, the main differences seem to be that everything's now a crisis to the fearmongerers on the right when they do not hold power in the government.  Their media makes modern problems out to be an end-of-the-world scenario.  This is the Benghazi and E-mail scandal blowup all over again - major issues to the right that ended with no criminality.  They sure do know how to huff and puff, but in the end, it's all bluster.

    1. wilderness profile image94
      wildernessposted 2 years agoin reply to this

      Is the family that was making $40,000 and now earns $42,000 making more now than they were before a year of extreme inflation?

      I think not, and that doesn't even address whether inflation figures are actually representing what is being seen by the public.  Certainly gas is well over that 8%, and so are groceries.  Rents and skyrocketed (not risen 8%) and so have other things that we all must have.  Perhaps high dollar items like cars and planes have not risen that fast, holding down the official figures.

      1. Ken Burgess profile image77
        Ken Burgessposted 2 years agoin reply to this

        The official figures were something like 24% inflation for all of 2021 and so far this year we have averaged over 7% a month.

        For example all Tesla models have increased 25% or more in the last year.

        Homes in my area have increased 27% in the last year.

        Gas has gone from $1.89 sometime during Trump's final months to $4.29 in my area right now.

        The dollar has lost roughly 33% of its value in the last year and a half.

        1. wilderness profile image94
          wildernessposted 2 years agoin reply to this

          Which means that rising incomes don't come close to keeping up, with the possible exception of that tiny minority actually earning minimum wage that have doubled to $15.

          Seniors on SS will be hit very hard - I can see a great many that simply won't be able to cope.

          1. gmwilliams profile image85
            gmwilliamsposted 2 years agoin reply to this

            Exactly Wilderness,  my late mother stated OVER FOUR DECADES AGO, that there will be ONLY TWO CLASSES- the very rich & the very poor.   It's going towards the TWO class system.  Even the solidly middle class feels the bite.

          2. Ken Burgess profile image77
            Ken Burgessposted 2 years agoin reply to this

            Not only does it not keep up...

            Looking at what is going on in Germany, the UK, etc. right now... with prices going up as much as 50% overnight... we are in for a shit-storm when it reaches America.

            Imagine going out to buy yourself lunch at McDonalds tomorrow and finding out a meal for one now costs you $25.

            German Retailers To Increase Food Prices By 20-50%
            Apr 03, 2022 · Just days after Germany reported the highest inflation in a generation ... there have been jumps in purchase prices that we have not experienced before,” a spokesperson for

            UK prices are rising from 1 April, from ...
            Apr 01, 2022 · Retail prices will go up by 8.9% to reflect the...
            Energy bills to rise by over £700 on average for 22 million people in April 2022 This is the highest the gas and electricity price cap has ever been.
            Apr 03, 2022 ... with this month being dubbed 'awful April' because of the sheer number of price increases people are having to absorb in a huge ...

            1. Kathryn L Hill profile image77
              Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this

              - like in Argentina?

      2. gmwilliams profile image85
        gmwilliamsposted 2 years agoin reply to this

        A family with a household income of $40K per annum is feeling the bite.  This family really has to cut corners to make ends meet. Families must have a household income of AT LEAST $80K per annum to be comfortable.  However, in New York City, families with that income feel that pinch, especially with rents the way they are currently.   So I conclude that in New York City, families have to earn from $100K-above to be really comfortable.

        1. Ken Burgess profile image77
          Ken Burgessposted 2 years agoin reply to this

          I'm glad you differentiated between states.

          In Florida you can live comfortably on 80k, in NY you are going to go bankrupt or depend on government assistance. Or both.

          The value of the dollar is not equal in all areas of the country.

          And fewer and fewer are the places you can get by on 80k comfortably.

          1. Nathanville profile image93
            Nathanvilleposted 2 years agoin reply to this

            Wow, is that right; people in America with a household income of $40,000 per annum will feel the bite, and that you need to earn at least $80,000 per annum to be comfortable.  That would suggest the American cost of living is high?

            In the UK the Legal Minimum Wage for full time work works out to around $25,955 per annum, before tax.

            However an organisation calling themselves ‘The Living Wage Foundation’, and through their work have encouraged 9,000 UK Companies to voluntarily pay what they consider a ‘liveable wage’ have determined that a liveable wage in the UK is around $27,048 per annum, before tax (assuming a 40 hour working week).

            https://www.livingwage.org.uk/what-real-living-wage

            I took early retirement 10 years ago, we’ve paid off our mortgage so we own our own home, and my only income is my civil service pension and carers allowance, which combined comes to $20,889 net (after tax); whereas my living expenses are around $18,000, so I’m living well within my means, and living comfortably, including (prior to the pandemic) taking three long holidays (vacations) per year.

            So why is the American cost of living so high that you have to earn 67% more than in the UK just to be on a liveable wage?

            1. Credence2 profile image79
              Credence2posted 2 years agoin reply to this

              Geez, Arthur, 27k is not very much. How can anybody live in London on that?

              You have some low living expenses. You can't really function here at 18k a year. I am on civil service pension as well but the benefits are considerably more generous, they have to be.

              It would be an interesting study to figure out how you Brits can get by for so little. When in London years ago, I got the impression that things were twice as expensive yet people made half the income relative to here in the states. The driving factors are housing, foodand sustenance, and for us oldsters, medical costs.

              I think about the adage the Brits used to describe American GIs during WWII:

              Oversexed
              Overpaid and
              Over here....

              1. Nathanville profile image93
                Nathanvilleposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                Interesting:  Yeah, it is considerably more expensive to live and work in London, which is why people working in London do get paid more; known as ‘London weighting’; typically, people on London weighting get paid an average of about $5,200 per annum extra on top of their normal wages.  And a lot of people who work in London, live outside of London - where housing is cheaper.

                But other than that (outside of London) $27,000 is a liveable wage in the UK; and the first $16,500 that you earn is tax free, you only start paying tax on what you earn above $16,500.

                Yeah housing is expensive in the UK these days, whether you are buying or renting; but if you’re renting, and you are unemployed, on a low income, or already claiming other welfare benefits then you can claim what used to be called ‘Housing Benefit’ e.g. your local government pays your rent for you.

                Also, if you’re homeless or living in crowded conditions e.g. pregnant daughter and her partner moves back in with her parents in a two bedroom flat (apartment), then you’re a high priority to be given a ‘Council House’; Council Houses are ‘Social Housing’ built, maintained and owned by local government that offers cheaper rent to the needy, and if you can’t afford the rent then you can claim housing benefit.

                In the light that housing is very expensive these days the Conservative Government has introduced various initiatives to help ‘first time buyers’ to get onto the property market.  Back in the 1980’s Margaret Thatcher changed the law to give Council House Tenants the legal right to buy their Council House from their local government at a discount price e.g. market price less all the rent they’ve paid over the years. 

                Our current house that we bought on the private market, was an ex-council house when we bought it; built in the 1930’s, and well-built with large gardens.

                Other government schemes to help first time buyers is the ‘Lifetime ISA’ introduced by the Conservative Government in 2017.  An ISA is a bank savings account set up by the Labour (Socialist) Government in 1999 that’s tax free interest.  It pays a high rate of interest, and unlike any other savings account, the interest is tax free.

                The Lifetime ISA is a special ISA set up by the Conservative Government in 2017 whereby you are allowed to add a maximum of up to $5,200 a year to your ISA, but you can only cash in this particular ISA either when you buy your first house, or at age 60; at which time the Government will give you a grant that’s 25% of however much you have in your ISA.

                The Lifetime ISA https://youtu.be/blcUybVwYqo

                As regards food:   Yes, if you buy readymade meals from takeaways, like McDonalds, or a Fish & Chip shop then eating is expensive.  But if you cook your own meals then eating can be relatively cheap, especially if you buy most of your groceries from shops like Aldi or Lidl.

                And when it comes to medial costs, in the UK all healthcare is free to everyone at the point of use, it’s all paid for by the Government from taxes so we don’t even have to worry about paying any medical insurance, because there isn’t any in the UK.

                Since taking early retirement from the civil service ten years ago I have been living quite comfortably on my carers allowance and civil service pension of $20,889, and yes my living expensive is only $18,000; albeit we paid off our mortgage when I retired.  So over the last ten years, as well as all the holidays, we’ve invested in having the whole house double glassed (windows and doors), and last autumn forked out for solar panels and wall battery to produce and store our own electricity and thus cut our electricity bill.

                These last few weeks I’ve been busy renovating our bedroom and en-suit bathroom, and we’ve placed an order to have it carpeted with an Axminster fitted carpet.  An Axminster or Wilton Carpet being the most prodigious and expensive carpet you can get in the UK; a carpet made from the finest wool that will last a lifetime.   An Axminster carpet costs about $120 per square metre (square yard), compared to other good quality carpets that only cost just $40 per square metre (square yard).

                Axminster Carpets was founded in Devon, England in 1775; a weaver learnt the skills of how Turkish carpets are made, and on his return to England from Turkey he bought that knowledge back with him to set up looms in a town called Axminster, Devon, England to make top quality carpets from the finest wool using the same technique used to make Turkish carpets.  Another weaver, did the same thing in 1741, but set his business up in Wilton, Wiltshire, England.

                Axminster Carpets Introduction https://youtu.be/ZpeEhgKCCzI

                So we’ve had plenty of money to splash out on luxuries.  And this summer I reach ‘State Retirement’ Age, so I’ll also be getting my state pension from this summer, on top of my existing income, pushing my total net (after tax) income to $30,684, which is far in excess of what I need to live comfortably.

                And also, when I get my state pension that also entitles me to free bus travel.

                That being said, in the UK, in spite of all the social and welfare benefits available from the government, and free healthcare for all (at the point of use) we do obviously have poverty in this country e.g. single working mum (working part time), or an elderly person who has little or no works pension so their main income is just the State Pension etc. it’s these people who are going to suffer with rising fuel costs and rising food prices.

                P.S.  I love your quip about American GI’s during WWII smile

                1. Credence2 profile image79
                  Credence2posted 2 years agoin reply to this

                  As a federal civil service employee, we had locality zones allowing for a premium on salaries to adjust for the high cost of living areas, like San Francisco.

                  It has been crazy here Central Florida as of late. The 4 bedroom 2 bath house that I once rented when we arrived in the area in 2014, went from $1050/month then to $1800/month now. It has been so bad that the dreaded  discussion of rent control is being talked about in Orlando, home of that extortionist little rodent, Mickey Mouse. But this is America, speaking of rent control is like so many expletives strung together.

                  It is only because of the prodding of my wife, that I decided to settle down in this region and buy a house. We got into the market before the worse of the price increases. I pay 18k a year for the mortgage, and that is still much cheaper in the long run than renting within this  precarious market, where the only certainty is that prices are going to rise.

                  We have tile floors with floor rugs for comfort. Living in Hawaii for 3 years, it is problematic to have carpeting because of heat, humidity and the tendency toward mold. I hate yard work, but with the wife, it is Nag, Nag, Nag, so I maintain a large yard lot in exchange for supper. That is a lot of work and I am not getting any younger.

                  We live in a semi rural area with plenty of raccoons, possums, with an occasional deer sighting. I have been warned about bobcats and such, but even though we've had alligators in the small river channel behind the house, I haven't been seriously injured yet. Living in the "sticks", if you don't have reliable private transportation, you are in trouble.

                  I told the wife if we get hungry there is more nutrition in a can of sardines and a small store bought salad than what you get from anything McDonalds serves. If you are resourceful, you can get by cheap on food. My wife, named after the notoriously extravagant French Queen of old, is the equivalent of her ghost once she is let loose in the supermarket. I have to keep a tight rein on the Wallet to avoid her tendency toward impulse spending.

                  I still work with the Fahrenheit scale, and have not yet made the transition to Celsius. Unlike Hawaii, it still can get cold here. Anything below 45 degrees start to make people nervous, there is that orange crop out there. For the most part, winter is the nicest time of the year, the heat and humidity abates quite a bit. Temps in the upper 70s and lower 80s have generally been the rule.

                  The U.K. Enjoys a great deal more subsidized services than we get here. The housing crisis, as it continues to run its course will find more people on the street with no where they can afford to live. What people get paid at a Walmart may fall short of what one needs to pay the monthly rent. But, the Brits, world renown as the example of civility would never have piles of people sleeping on street corners, but it can happen here.

                  Oh, BTW, that quip came from a film called "Yanks" released in 1979. Check it out sometime...

                  Credence2

                  1. Nathanville profile image93
                    Nathanvilleposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                    The average UK rent (excluding London) is currently $1,410 per month, and in London its $2,313 per month. 

                    The current average UK house price (outside of London) $358,183; which means a monthly mortgage would be $1,518 monthly payment; which is $18,216 per year.

                    So it would seem that rent and house prices in the UK are on a par with America.  So it’s a good job people on low income can claim housing benefit e.g. where the local government pays their rent; or otherwise we would end up with lots of ghettos.

                    Our house is in the suburbs (urban city of Bristol) but we on the edge of the Green belt, just a five minutes’ walk away, and we get plenty of wildlife in our garden, including, hedgehogs, squirrels, foxes, toad, frogs and newts and birds of course.

                    In the UK, it doesn’t matter where you live, rural or urban; you are always within easy walking distance of a good public transport system; so a car is more of a convenience than a necessity.

                    I assume from your description you wife’s name is Marie-Antoinette?  (“Let them eat cake”).  Quite a contracts my wife is quite frugal; she shops around and buys from the cheapest supermarket, which is quite easy to do without leaving your home thanks to the FREE Supermarket Comparison website.

                    The Supermarket Comparison website lists all products for all supermarkets, and their current prices, allowing you to shop on line if you wish, and at the end it will tell you which supermarket would be the cheapest.  And if you didn’t fancy physically visiting the Supermarket in person you could just place your order on-line and often have it delivered from the Supermarket to your door for free delivery if you spend more than x-amount.

                    About 20 years ago I built my wife a brick shed to use as a food store (which where we also have two of our freezers) and I did her food store out like a kitchen e.g. kitchen cupboards and worktop.  My wife uses that food store to buy food in bulk when it’s on offer e.g. baked beans at half price; which saves us about $500 per year on food, albeit we’ve always got about six months food supply in our food store.  I also like gardening, so I grow all our own vegetables (except for potatoes), enough vegetables each year for a year’s supply; hence the extra freezer – and that saves us another $500 a year on food.  So our food bill is actually quite low.

                    I’ve only known Celsius since childhood, so when Americans quote Fahrenheit I have to look it on a conversion table on the web to understand it.  Generally winter in Bristol where I live is often around 5c (about 40f) these days (warmer than they used to be) and our summers prior to the 1990s rarely got much above 20C (70f); but in the past 20 years (global warming) summer temperatures of 30C (86f) and above are quite normal these days.

                    Yes, I think you are right, the UK does enjoy a greater deal more subsidized services than the USA; which obviously does make a difference e.g. reduces the risk of people ending in abject poverty and living on the streets.

                    In that respect I would image that the carers allowance I get from the Government must seem a bit alien to Americans.   Because my wife has back issues, which makes it a little difficult for her to walk any distance or stand for too long, she gets disability allowance from the Government.

                    One aspect of this benefit which American might find odd, is that the Disability Allowance is NOT means tested e.g. anyone who is disabled or partially disabled is entitled to it regardless to their income and savings. 

                    And because my wife gets disability allowance it means that I qualify for Carers Allowance; which is $4,752 per year for doing most of the housework and the cooking for her – which effectively means that the Government is paying me to be a househusband!

                    Below are images of our food store shed at the bottom of our garden that I built for my wife about 20 years ago:-

                    https://hubstatic.com/15953377_f1024.jpg

                    https://hubstatic.com/15953378_f1024.jpg

              2. tsmog profile image84
                tsmogposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                I think you are right that 27K is not much! And, I emphatically agree with your 'us oldsters, medical costs". I couldn't decide if to post to your reply to Arthur or to Arthur and wound up here since it is U.S. related.

                For the U.S. "The Pension Rights Center reports that half of all Americans age 65 or older have incomes less than $24,224 a year." And, "the average Social Security retirement benefit in January 2022 was about $1,614 per month, or about $19,370 per year." One more tid-bit is "New Report: 40% of Older Americans Rely Solely on Social Security for Retirement Income."

                Sources:
                What Is the Average Monthly Retirement Income? by Good Life (Feb 28, 2020)
                https://goodlifehomeloans.com/resources … nt-income/

                Policy Basics: Top Ten Facts about Social Security by Center on Budget and Policy Priorities (Updated Mar 4, 2022)
                https://www.cbpp.org/research/social-se … l-security

                New Report: 40% of Older Americans Rely Solely on Social Security for Retirement Income by National Institute on Retirement Security (Jan 13, 2020)
                https://www.nirsonline.org/2020/01/new- … nt-income/

                Regard medical costs "U.S. households led by someone who is 65 or older spend an average of $6,668 a year on health care, according to the federal Bureau of Labor Statistics’ latest data on consumer spending, which is for 2020." So, I ask where does that money for health care come from based on the information for income for seniors.

                Here’s How Much Seniors Actually Spend on Health Care by Money Talk News (Sept 28, 2021)
                https://www.moneytalksnews.com/slidesho … alth-care/

                This post was only meant to offer some info and I have mixed feelings and thoughts to what it means.

                1. Nathanville profile image93
                  Nathanvilleposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                  Thanks for the info Tim, educational. 

                  The one thing that strikes me the most is the horrendous medical costs of $6,668 per year on average that Americans face in their retirement; how can they afford it?

                  As you know, in the UK healthcare is 100% FREE to all (NHS), so that’s one expense we don’t have; thankfully.

                  From Government states, 52% of British households receive State support in one form or another e.g. from Child Benefit to State Pension.

                  Over 18% of the British Population (almost 5th) are in retirement and have reached State Retirement age.

                  Typically in the UK, 67% of a pensioner’s income is generated from their private or works pension, with the rest being made up from the State Pension and other Governments benefits where entitled.

                  Only 14% of the working population in the UK don’t make provision for their retirement and thus end up struggling on just the State Pension and State aid.

                  I found this article which makes interesting reading, and if you read it carefully vindicates all our views, it supports what both you and Credence and what I have been saying, it just puts it all in perspective e.g. if you want to spend lots of money on lots of expensive holidays, buy expensive food and needlessly by loads of new clothes all the time then the sort of figures you are talking about needing in retirement in the UK is over $40,000 a year; whereas, if you want to be frugal then as a pensioner you can live on just $13,360 per year.

                  It’s all explained in the article: - https://www.unbiased.co.uk/life/pension … ent-income

                  The government’s most recent data (2017/18) shows the average income for pensioners in the UK to be £15,080 ($19,752) net per year (that’s after you’ve taken away direct taxes and housing costs).

                  UK Population = 67 million

                  People in the UK receiving the following main financial benefits from the Government:-
                  •    State Pension = 12.36 million
                  •    Welfare Benefit = 5.95 million
                  •    Disability Benefits = 4 million
                  •    Housing Benefit = 2.9 million
                  •    Employment and Support Allowance = 1.8 million
                  •    Attendance Allowance = 1.49 million
                  •    Pension Credit = 1.45 million
                  •    Carers Allowance = 1.3 million
                  •    Jobseekers Allowance = 264,000
                  •    Income Support = 247,000

                  1. TheShadowSpecter profile image85
                    TheShadowSpecterposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                    "As you know, in the UK healthcare is 100% FREE to all (NHS), so that’s one expense we don’t have; thankfully."

                    That's how it should be here in the United States of America.  The current privatized healthcare system has been failing us Americans for a long time, and people are dying inasmuch as they cannot afford it and don't have access to good doctors as a result.  If Universal Healthcare works in other English-speaking nations, I don't know why it couldn't work here in my nation.  Moderate Independents like myself as well as people on other parts of the political spectrum all agree that something needs to be done to reform our healthcare system here in my nation.

                2. Credence2 profile image79
                  Credence2posted 2 years agoin reply to this

                  TSmog, thanks for the great links. With the rapidly increasing costs of living against inadequate income, I see a crisis on the horizon.

                  Just under half of seniors live on Social Security, where can they afford to live. My younger sister in Denver is freaking out where, earning $21 per hour, the only available rents in her price range are unacceptably dirty and in higher crime areas of town. She is over 60 now and she is speaking to her minister who may have an option or two.

                  We held on to Federal employee Blue Cross program and did not take Medicare, it had an increase this year well over the Social Security Cola.

                  So much for the "golden years", huh?

                3. Nathanville profile image93
                  Nathanvilleposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                  It’s been interesting comparing living expenses here in Britain with that from across the pond in the USA.

                  Below is a total list of my living expenses which I've copied from my budget accounts:

                  My Monthly Expenses:-

                  •    Local Government Taxes = £168 ($219)
                  •    Home Entertainment: Internet, landline and Cable TV = £100 ($130)
                  •    Utility Bill (Gas and Electricity) = £100 ($130); albeit that will drop considerably in the coming months as I turn off the heating and we generate more of our own electricity from our solar panels.
                  •    Smart Phones (x2 – one each for me and my wife) = 46.18 ($62) total.
                  •    Water and sewage = £45.90 ($59.83)
                  •    House and Contents Insurance = £22.47 ($29.30)
                  •    Home Entertainment: Netflix = £13.99 ($18.24)
                  •    TV Licence = £13.37 ($17.45)

                  My Net Total Living Expenses = $665.82 per month; $7,989.84 per year.

                  •    I don’t have any additional income tax to pay because that’s deducted at source by the Government before I get my pension and carers allowance e.g. unlike America we don't have annual tax returns in the UK, as it's all taxed at source; except for the self employed of course.

                  •    I don’t have any medical bills or insurance to worry about as that’s free to all in the UK.

                  •    I have no rent or mortgage to pay as we paid off our mortgage when I took early retirement at 55.

                  •    Although I do give my wife $521 a month ‘housekeeping’; $6,252 per year, and

                  •    I pay for any meals out e.g. while on holiday and for special occasions such as her birthday and our anniversary etc.

                  •    I also cover all the DIY and Gardening costs, and then the surplus income is squirrelled away in an ISA account for a rainy day.

                  My wife doesn’t have such a big pension as me as she was a housewife and mother for the first 15 years of our married life; so her income consists of:-

                  •    The $521 housekeeping a month that I give her.
                  •    $260 a month rent from our son for bed and board.
                  •    Her disability allowance, and
                  •    A couple of small pensions until she reaches State Retirement age, at which point she will also get the State Pension.

                  My wife’s expenditure is just:-

                  •    Food & clothes
                  •    Household incidentals e.g. cleaning products, curtains and furnishing for the house etc.
                  •    Christmas
                  •    Car
                  •    Three family holidays a year, and
                  •    White goods and household electrical goods when they need replacing.

                  And her surplus income is then squirrelled away in ISA accounts for a rainy day.

                  So all in all, although our income is modest by American standards, so is our expenditure; allowing us to live in comfort and enjoy three holidays (vacations) a year.

    2. Ken Burgess profile image77
      Ken Burgessposted 2 years agoin reply to this

      Pot meet Kettle.

      Nothing... and I mean nothing... will surpass the four years of non-stop insanity proliferated by the "Left leaning" news media during Trump's four years. Nothing. Ever.

      It put anything Goebbels came up with to shame.

      1. Valeant profile image86
        Valeantposted 2 years agoin reply to this

        Except the vast majority of reports on Trump were the truth.  And Trump's stupid comments, which came with Goebbels-like consistency, multiple times per day, added to the volume of reporting on the office.

  4. Ken Burgess profile image77
    Ken Burgessposted 2 years ago

    “Economy, gas and grocery prices, climbing insurance premiums and deductibles, climate change.”   — 59-year-old Hispanic man from Michigan, Republican, extremely worried.

    “The economy is suffering. Prices are going up, up, up and wages are not.”  — 20-year-old White woman from Ohio, Independent, extremely worried.

    Yup... that is exactly what the #1 concern will be in November 2022 elections.  Barring nuclear conflict.

  5. Valeant profile image86
    Valeantposted 2 years ago

    Just wondering if any of you three far-right conservatives are even able to acknowledge the global figures I posted.  You all localized it without really understanding the other developed countries experiencing the same thing.  Certainly, they all cannot be using Biden policies that drive their own similar inflation.

    1. wilderness profile image94
      wildernessposted 2 years agoin reply to this

      Why can't it?  The two biggest reasons for our current inflation are the massive influx of money into the supply without any return and the COVID lockdown which prevented companies from hiring workers, resulting in grossly increasing labor prices.

      Both are Econ 101, and as I understand it both were going on world wide.  But that does not excuse Biden's policy to repeat the process here, while adding rules resulting in lower oil production and other hobbles on business.

      1. Sharlee01 profile image89
        Sharlee01posted 2 years agoin reply to this

        So well put.

  6. Kathryn L Hill profile image77
    Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago

    World war three has been going on, for awhile now, apparently.
    Biden in the White House has to be proof.

    Q. Why do I hesitate to post such a preposterous idea?
    A. Because it is counter to the blind obedience we have been expected to maintain.

    How is such obedience working out for us? and yet many remain complacent. However, those who are following Trump are really ramping up enthusiasm for his return,.
    and if/when he does ... look out!

    https://www.fox17online.com/trump-set-t … n-saturday

  7. Kathryn L Hill profile image77
    Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago

    Tie vote over KBJ !!!! We need to oppose the nomination!!!! She is way too progressive/liberal and will contribute to our downfall. 

    TWISI

    1. Credence2 profile image79
      Credence2posted 2 years agoin reply to this

      "Yet GOP opposition will not tank Jackson's nomination. The 51-year-old judge is expected to be confirmed with full Democratic support and the backing of at least one Republican, Sen. Susan Collins of Maine, who revealed last week that she plans to vote for Jackson. Senate Democrats and the White House have been vying to peel off some GOP votes for a bipartisan confirmation."
      ------

      Looks like you lost again, KH. We don't need the GOP support that I knew that we were never going to get anyway.....

      You guys will just have to suck it up, this time....

      1. Kathryn L Hill profile image77
        Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this

        It will be to Liberals' detriment too. They too will loose.
        The marketing of child pornography has real victims. There are little babies and children who are physically and psychologically abused during filming. If they survive the abuse, they are ruined for life.

        The less you punish the viewers, the more you encourage the buying and selling of these horrible videos. It's utterly disgusting. Maybe liberals can't accept the truth.  Of course, some Republicans can't either. This person, a woman, should especially be ashamed: Republican, Sen. Susan Collins of Maine.

        1. Credence2 profile image79
          Credence2posted 2 years agoin reply to this

          Just another morsel of agony for you, I have been told that Senators Murkowski and Romney are going to vote with Susan Collins to confirm Judge Jackson's nomination.....

          The RINOs are on a stampede, what is a Rightwinger to do?

          They seem to get past all the "child pornography" drivel associated with the nominee.

          1. Kathryn L Hill profile image77
            Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this

            Yep, three morsels of stampeding agony.

            What the heck happened to Romney?
            AG Bill Barr also crumpled.
            I heard Pence might run for president.
            Gross.

            1. profile image0
              savvydatingposted 2 years agoin reply to this

              https://www.dailysignal.com/2022/04/01/ … sentences/

              I didn't know about the Judge's record on child pornography until very recently. Now I understand why all but three Republicans in Congress have opposed her. Her record is sickening.

              Romney, Barr, and Pence are cowards.

              1. Kathryn L Hill profile image77
                Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                add her to the list
                Republican, Sen. Susan Collins of Maine.

                Repeating: It will be to Liberals' detriment too. They too will loose.
                The marketing of child pornography has real victims. There are little babies and children who are physically and psychologically abused during filming. If they survive the abuse, they are ruined for life.

                The less you punish the viewers, the more you encourage the buying and selling of these horrible videos. It's utterly disgusting. Maybe liberals can't accept the truth.  Of course, some Republicans can't either. This person, a woman, should especially be ashamed: Republican, Sen. Susan Collins of Maine.

                Some people have Hearts of Hard black COAL. That she was chosen by Biden or ? explains why she was even considered. It was Obama who brought her in. Sometimes I wonder if these people were groomed. Used as Trojan horses.
                ... but I digress with terrible meandering musings.

                1. Fayetteville Faye profile image60
                  Fayetteville Fayeposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                  You do realize that Congress writes and gives judges the sentence and guidelines that they use?

                  1. Kathryn L Hill profile image77
                    Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                    Her records showed she went to the minimum. The sentences were as light as they could be. She went against the recommendations of the courts and her sentencing records reveal her leanings toward the criminals.

              2. Fayetteville Faye profile image60
                Fayetteville Fayeposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                "Her record is sickening."

                And you've gone over each of the over 500 rulings? Looked at the guidelines set by Congress that she used to determine sentences? Special circumstances?  Again this is oversimplification.  Since you're only interest appears to be advancing partisanship... Here you go..

                "Federal appeals court Judges Joseph Bianco of the Second Circuit and Andrew Brasher of the Eleventh Circuit, both Trump appointees, had each previously sentenced defendants convicted of possessing child pornography to prison terms well below federal guidelines at the time they were confirmed"

                If and when we properly contextualize Judge Jackson's sentencing record in federal child porn cases, it looks pretty mainstream," wrote Doug Berman, a leading expert on sentencing law and policy at The Ohio State University School of Law.

                "Federal judges nationwide typically sentence below the [child porn] guideline in roughly 2 out of 3 cases,"

                Maybe we should just rely upon the nonpartisan facts.   Your outrage should be directed toward your members of Congress because they are responsible for the guidelines.

                1. profile image0
                  savvydatingposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                  https://nypost.com/2022/04/02/ketanyi-b … -sex-cases

                  https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/20 … hilia-and/

                  Once you review all "500 cases" get back to me. Child pornography is not okay. That is the point. Judge Brown Jackson has apologized to perpetrators of child violence. At what point do you realize, that is not okay.
                  Why do you choose to be part of the good ole' boy team that is the Democratic Party? Do you not realize that once a country turns against its children that country is dead?

                  1. Fayetteville Faye profile image60
                    Fayetteville Fayeposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                    Do you think that judges can single-handedly change sentencing guidelines? Do a little more research. They are bound by Congress. Yes child pornography is not okay. Bring that up with your Congressional representatives who have a fact over the sentencing guidelines. What don't you understand?
                    Again just another example of being partisan, lining up behind the party line just for the sake of doing it. Do you not realize that the majority of judges, Trump appointed and others have ruled in the same way as Judge Jackson and even more often so?
                    And stop trying to pigeonhole my points as purely for a party.  My thinking is broader than that and my ability to do the research as an educator is  how my views are formed. I don't need to be guided by a party line..

    2. Valeant profile image86
      Valeantposted 2 years agoin reply to this

      Or the entire GOP has moved so far to the extreme that one of the most qualified candidates does not warrant their approval because she won't be voting the way they want her to.

      1. Kathryn L Hill profile image77
        Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this

        So many have no idea of the urgent need to stop the deep-state left/right from destroying the very foundations of our civilized society, including what it values and holds dear: our people and ESPECIALLY our children. That judge could care a fig for the victims of child pornography. She cares about obedience to those who's agenda is to destroy America.

  8. Valeant profile image86
    Valeantposted 2 years ago

    Bill Maher sums up the GOP candidates in 2022 pretty well:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9MX37aA6lM

    1. Fayetteville Faye profile image60
      Fayetteville Fayeposted 2 years agoin reply to this

      The GOP is a hot mess. The party is fractured between
      Trumpists and RINOS. Most striking though is how issue-less Republicans have beome. Virtually no talk about issues, No ideas and No interest in solutions. Half of the party still doesn't acknowledge the reality of the 2020 election. 
      The GOP is in an  uncivil war, not fought over ideology but over loyalty to the former president; not about public policy or economic solutions but about who can serve as the most unbending conduit of the Republican base’s profound anger. They are, moreover, being played against one another by a former president who’s obsessed with displays of  fealty; he is eagerly dividing the party against itself. The GOP primary season has become a replica of The Apprentice: Endless infighting for little clear purpose beyond Trump’s own gratification.

      1. Credence2 profile image79
        Credence2posted 2 years agoin reply to this

        I can only hope that GOP divisions lead to its ultimate destruction, otherwise America as a democracy will become a thing of the past.

        1. abwilliams profile image69
          abwilliamsposted 2 years agoin reply to this

          This conservative feels the same way about leftist woke-ism.
          I hope its demise comes long before this Country's.

          1. Sharlee01 profile image89
            Sharlee01posted 2 years agoin reply to this

            It will --- have faith, Americans are well over all the silly. Anyone with half a brain can see the country is a huge mess, and realize how quickly this administrated accomplished this task. Keep the faith they already are one foot put the door.

            1. Credence2 profile image79
              Credence2posted 2 years agoin reply to this

              You have to realize by now that I have considerably more than half a brain, you have so complimented me several times in that regard.

              If we allow authoritarians to take over, what you consider to be a mess will become irreparable. That model is what your side is heralding and holding up high.

              1. Sharlee01 profile image89
                Sharlee01posted 2 years agoin reply to this

                I consider you very intelligent, one that displays his intelligence as a constant. 

                How can we see things so differently?   Did you feel Trump did not have your back as a citizen? Were you honorably unhappy with his job performance?  We have agreed we did not approve of many of his statements, and that he was narcissistic, and we know we at this point can't have it all.  But do you really think Trump was an authoritarian? Much of the time he appeared to be making every attempt to make things better for Americans.  Yes, one could disagree with some of his projects. But the point is he pushed, he worked, and he in many incidents got good results.

                I have made it clear I think it best he does not run in 2024. However, I so appreciated his America first agenda. And I hope the Republican candidate will continue with his agenda. I don't care to turn and go backward. I have no need for seeing a status quo politician back in the White House.

                I don't see the Rep party pushing authoritarian agenda. I see them as fighting to keep the best of our democracy intact, in a changing time when Americans want more but want to keep what makes sense, and has worked for over 200 years.

                1. Ken Burgess profile image77
                  Ken Burgessposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                  The Republican Party was never really the party of Trump.  Many disenfranchised Democrats voted for him, many Independents voted for him, he ran a s a Republican and he worked to do the things Republicans ran on... like repealing the ACA... reworking Trade agreements that hurt American jobs... but he wasn't hard right Republican.

                  He was far more liberal on social matters than Republicans typically are, he went out of his way to help those most in need to get a hand up (not a handout).

                  https://theblacksphere.net/2020/10/trum … ts-blacks/

                  Disregarding all that... he was still one of the best Presidents for minorities. Do you think that major companies would have run ads and videos on social media talking about why Black Lives Matter if Hillary Clinton were elected president?

                  Much of what we saw the MSM focus their attention on, the efforts to fund and support BLM and whip the minority populace into a frenzy was to get Trump out of office.  Everything you had seen with regard to race relations and the paradigm shift that took place could be connected to the election of Trump.

                  Now all that gets swept back under the rug.

                  Democrats are in power, all is well.  We may all be sinking in a quagmire of inflation, taxation and exasperation, but we are all much better off.

                  1. Sharlee01 profile image89
                    Sharlee01posted 2 years agoin reply to this

                    I feel Trump was one of the best problem solvers that ever lived in the White House. Now we are in a trick bag with a man that could not figure out how to put his shoes on.   As I said he was a president that had our backs, and worked his ass off to make a better America for all. It's sad to see some are blind to that fact.

                    My God the writing at this point is on the wall, this man is unfit to be president, and his handlers are even more unfit to Govern.

                  2. Credence2 profile image79
                    Credence2posted 2 years agoin reply to this

                    "Disregarding all that... he was still one of the best Presidents for minorities. Do you think that major companies would have run ads and videos on social media talking about why Black Lives Matter if Hillary Clinton were elected president?"
                    ---------
                    How are you qualified to say this? You are not a member of a minority group and the sheer numbers at the polls from our group certainly did not reflect that the vast majority us were enamored with Trump. Blacks in certain urban centers combined to insure Trumps defeat in 2020. The opinions of the Candice Owens, on the GOP payroll, is irrelevant to the overwhelming view. 
                    -----------
                    "Much of what we saw the MSM focus their attention on, the efforts to fund and support BLM and whip the minority populace into a frenzy was to get Trump out of office.  Everything you had seen with regard to race relations and the paradigm shift that took place could be connected to the election of Trump."

                    What do you mean by "stir up" into a frenzy? So many of you folks still don't get it , do you? You don't think that we can't see for ourselves the Trump phenomenon, the GOP and where their ideas and policies are leading? We are not people that are so widely  and totally manipulated, while all of you see the world in crystal clear reality, why should I believe that?

                2. Credence2 profile image79
                  Credence2posted 2 years agoin reply to this

                  "How can we see things so differently"

                  Now that is the $64K question.  Trumps negatives in my opinion are simply greater than those of Biden, from my world view.

                  1. Sharlee01 profile image89
                    Sharlee01posted 2 years agoin reply to this

                    But what about the Country? What about those being hurt the most by the decisions of this administration, the poor?  At this point, I am just looking at the bottom lines, comparing many variables.
                    1. do I feel safe?
                    2. do I feel more confident in the economy?
                    3. do I feel his policies are helping the people that truely need help.
                    4. do I see our borders being secured, and or new immigration laws that could help with this growing problem. Not sure why many are not realizing the cost to the nation of this influx of migrants. It's the poor that suffer due to the lack of good border policies.
                    5. Has the country witnessed any form of healing as Biden promised? I say no--- the divide has deepened and split the country in two, without hope of it ever being mended.

                    Under Trump, I did not have 1 through 4... I felt the country was on a good path for all.

                3. Credence2 profile image79
                  Credence2posted 2 years agoin reply to this

                  Sharlee, I have been meaning to get back with you with more detail on your comments.

                  Centrist does not mean Republican light, I elected a democrat along with its values, not a Republican.

                  You've got that looney pair of women that do not have the courtesy to keep their mouths shut during the President's State of the Union address. Another clown did that during Obama's term. When has a Democrat ever did that to a Republican president?

                  You have a couple of Republican congressmen that brazenly attended a white supremist conference in Orlando, recently. Why are not Democrats found there? The fact that they get a "slap on the wrist" by the Senate or House minority leaders does not give me any confidence about the party and its mores. From what I hear, one of two that are unrepentant has been slated as a keynote speaker for a celebration of Hitler's birthday. You can look it up.

                  I have corrected myself acknowleging that Trump is not so much a racist as a fomenter of the problem which is well intertwined as part and parcel of American society, just like oxygen in the atmosphere, he merely strikes a match to start fires that he callously uses for his own political gain. With so much of the GOP and its adherents under Trumps spell and control, it is impossible to see any daylight or differences between the two.

                  This article speak a little about Trump and authoritarianism. I don't expect you to agree, but that is how I see things.

                  https://theconversation.com/president-t … ces-150895

                  1. Sharlee01 profile image89
                    Sharlee01posted 2 years agoin reply to this

                    "You've got that looney pair of women that do not have the courtesy to keep their mouths shut during the President's State of the Union address. Another clown did that during Obama's term. When has a Democrat ever did that to a Republican president?"

                    Come on --  Sorry, no one could beat this well-planned silly rude stunt.
                    https://hubstatic.com/15956936_f1024.jpg

                    Both parties have congressmen and women that they don't approve of, overzealous figures, trying to get their 15 minutes. As a rule, this type fades away and is seen for what they are.

        2. Sharlee01 profile image89
          Sharlee01posted 2 years agoin reply to this

          Cred, Republicans aside ---  are you in a coma?  Come on...  If you can't see that our very democracy has been hijacked by a few far-left liberals I think you may need glasses. This bunch is making every attempt to destroy democracy. My gosh standstill spin around and have a look at what a mess the Country is in.

          And don't ya think this very bunch is putting the Democratic party in the toilet?   Oh my, hopefully, things continue to go as they are going now until fall...  The Republicans are loving all the messes that the administration is creating for political ads. 

          The country is floundering, we need to stop looking to blame, and look for solutions.

          And I know you have claimed, that the Democrats are in line with your own ideologies... At this point, I must ask, really?

          1. Credence2 profile image79
            Credence2posted 2 years agoin reply to this

            Yes, Sharlee, they are more in line than the Republicans ever could be. It is my opinion that had Trump won, the current circumstances would be no better and would probably be much worse.

            Biden is a centrist, more than I would like. What far left liberals are hijacking the Democratic party? I don't know anyone in the Democratic Congress that have demonstrated that sort of influence and power.

            Yet, I see evidence of extreme right nut cases in the news everyday, prominently included as part of the GOP ranks.

            Rest assured my vision exceeds 20/20.

            1. Sharlee01 profile image89
              Sharlee01posted 2 years agoin reply to this

              We have our small handful of "nut cases" that would give the lefts nut cases a run for their money. We recognize them by name... We certainly do not push their radical verbiage. But your bunch they are Rockin it... They have captured or should I say pull the strings of the president, and the House Leader.  Maybe Joe presented himself as a centrist, but have a look-see at his past. He has always had someone pulling his strings. He always was one to try to ride any coattails that had 15 minutes in the limelight.  Most of the time he picked the wrong coat to ride, and never did he follow any centrists. Just think of his idles.

              Now, I don't think the Republican party will back anyone that associates with our  "nut cases".  They are already ignored and pushed to the sidelines.

              The Dems just backed the wrong guy, and just can't work his strings 100% of the time, and when he is off on his own --- well not so good.
              I actually think if he would have been more of a centrist, he would have had a good chance to do much better. He is a likable guy.

              I have a feeling the party is done with old Joe, I note the media is trying hard to get to the bottom of Hunters' dirty dealings. CBS is now on the case. Guess they may want to see how Harris can take orders.
              https://www.cbsnews.com/news/hunter-bid … -grassley/

              The tide had turned, and the media has a new person to destroy. Doo yo think Biden can hold up as well as Trump has?

    2. GA Anderson profile image87
      GA Andersonposted 2 years agoin reply to this

      I like Bill Maher. I enjoyed your link so here's one to return the favor:
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05Q1Bzg5zTY

      GA

    3. GA Anderson profile image87
      GA Andersonposted 2 years agoin reply to this

      Here's another Maher gem; advice for Democrats:

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6R5G7pUXIXs

      (you tricked me into a Bill Maher rabbit hole. I like how the guy thinks) ;-)

      GA

      1. Valeant profile image86
        Valeantposted 2 years agoin reply to this

        Some good advice in there. 

        But we're still waiting for many who went down the MAGA rabbit hole to poke their head out, as Maher says; and come back to reality.  So far, there's no sign that they want to stop dating the psycho.  No sign that they care to live in reality. 

        The polling bears that out as it's hard to find a Republican that doesn't believe one of the following:
        a.) The GOP is a party of MAGA and anyone that votes against MAGA principles is a RINO
        b.) Trump is their preferred nominee in 2024
        or
        c.) They believe the Big Lie about 2020

        The few Republicans that do not fall into one of those three categories, or who did poke their head out, are few and far between.  Those that did poke their heads out are quickly expunged from the party via cancellation (Liz Cheney or any rep who voted for impeachment) or death threats (Upton, Mich., Raffensperger, Geo.) - sending the message that poking your head out ends your affiliation with the MAGA party or can subject you to domestic terrorism.

        While I agree some civility is the way to go, I disagree with Maher that coddling a party that uses domestic terror as a political tool deserves any graciousness until they can openly admit that following Trumpism was a mistake. 

        Honestly, not one single conservative at this site would readily admit that supporting Trump as he went about attempting to dismantle democracy was a mistake.  Not a one has said that if Trump were the nominee, that the events leading up to, and on January 6, would be a disqualifier.  Some have said that they would prefer if he was not the nominee, but not a single one has acknowledged the attempted coup attempt or that Trump is clearly a threat to American democracy.  There's a lot of propaganda trying to sell Biden as the destroyer of America, which is a major falsehood.

        Many have tried to call the insurrection something else, using Fox News arguments that no one had been charged with sedition - until they were, of course, since anyone who watched the events live on that day could see that the violence was aimed at trying to stop the certification and keep Trump in power.

        So many here listen to that news network's propaganda and race to this site to try and sell it here - and then get met with a harsh reality check.  'Biden stopped us from being energy independent!' -heck, I posted an article that Trump brokered a deal in April 2020 to cut global oil production by 20% to raise prices.  All we'll see from that factual tidbit is denial or omission in future repeat accusations of blame.  That's some serious brainwashing that Trump's supporters refuse to accept reality to cling to their false beliefs.

        Perhaps if any can accept that their reality is false, there will be some olive branches extended.  For now, many reasonable people that we used to converse with here have just drifting further down the MAGA rabbit hole instead of seeing that they should exit that nightmare.

        1. Kathryn L Hill profile image77
          Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this

          " ...they should exit that nightmare"

          and stop rocking the boat.

        2. GA Anderson profile image87
          GA Andersonposted 2 years agoin reply to this

          If they can accept that their reality is false? I have a different take-away from his thoughts.

          I think sensible Democrats should ask why Trump supporters feel the way they do—according to you, (as in generic democrats). The `falseness' of their reality is one of degrees, from Trump devotees that love the man to Trump supporters that love the idea Trump represented. It appears Democrats don't make that distinction. In that respect, you, (again, generic Democrats), aren't very different from the Trump supporters—it's an all-or-nothing position for you.

          To ask that "why" question consider that about half of the nation doesn't like the direction our nation is taking on some of the most basic and simple issues; from that we are at a point where there is a debate about what a woman is, to the idea of a UBI.

          Then consider the effect the Democrats' self-righteousness has on that half of the nation; you bad-mouth them as poor, uneducated, `unenlightened', deplorables that aren't smart enough to run their own lives.

          Think about how little trust that half of the nation has for what the government and the Democrat party present as truth. (a distrust that has proven to be justified—from both sides).

          Finally, consider that we all live in the bubble of our life—that is our world. Your bubble, (as does mine and our other forum posters), includes the activity of political inspection. The bubbles of most do not, so their realities, (the ones you claim are false), are based on their life experiences and life position, and, the information they get in their daily lives.

          Maybe, a comparison to those infamous `Obama cash' folks makes the point. To many on the right, those' folks represent the Democrats. And it is those folks that label the Right as uneducated deplorables.

          Now ask the "why" question and see why the context of Maher's message conveys a different message to me than it does for you.

          GA

          1. Valeant profile image86
            Valeantposted 2 years agoin reply to this

            You see, there is where your perception of how you think democrats see you, and how we actually see you diverges.

            If I truly believed you all to be, as you note, deplorable, I wouldn't bother trying to engage you with information I clearly see you being excluded from.

            Many can understand why Trump was elected - he was a change from the failed status quo.  No one blamed people for wanting to try something different.  We have accepted the why, but have moved on to the 'why still?'

            Where it becomes hard to relate is after seeing the dismal failures of electing someone so clueless about how our government is supposed to run and the damage done during his term, that people could continue to be supportive.  The governing simply for the base and not all Americans, as well as the erosion of norms, the lawlessness, and the attacks on fellow Americans that have become commonplace from the MAGA crowd.  Let alone the domestic terror attack on our Capitol.

            It's not a why that we don't get, it's the why still.

            And that you, who I consider a very educated person, don't see what happened on January 6 as an attack on democracy itself is definitely a point that illustrates how even the formerly reasonable can fall deep in the MAGA hole.

            1. GA Anderson profile image87
              GA Andersonposted 2 years agoin reply to this

              Deep in the MAGA hole because I don't agree with your exact analysis of the "insurrection."

              I was pissed-off about what happened on Jan. 6 and what I consider to be Pres. Trump's actions that prompted and fueled it. I am also glad to see the rule of law upheld—regarding the participants. I would offer the full list of bad adjectives, from disgusting to stupid, but because I don't see it as a real insurrection I am still in the MAGA hole. That's bad news for me because I don't think the Trump supporters, (much less the Trump lovers), will let me anywhere near the door.

              GA

              1. Valeant profile image86
                Valeantposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                So you admit you thought Trump's actions incited the, let's call them events of January 6, so as not to offend, but deny he deserves accountability for the laws that were broken on that day.  That the main instigator was not considered a participant.

                That the attack being timed as the peaceful transfer of power was taking place and the calls to find and hang Mike Pence were not an attempt to halt that process do not consist of sedition or insurrection?  As Trump informs the crowd after the attack began that Mike Pence was not on board with their coup plan...

                I would put you in the Mitch McConnell camp of the GOP.  Willing to admit no election fraud and to publicly state Trump bears responsibility for January 6, but too willing to want to remain in the good graces of this current extremist GOP to be willing to act on those beliefs.

                1. GA Anderson profile image87
                  GA Andersonposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                  Yes, I do think he incited the mob to riot, and yes, if there is accountability to be had, he deserves it. I have said this from the day of his rally speech. I have repeated it, when necessary, in the few Jan. 6 discussions I have joined, yet because I am not a Trump-basher, you never caught that and seem excited that I would `admit it' now. Do you see my point?

                  Put me in any group you want, but remember, when you put me in your last group I did request that the other group members be physically small-statured.

                  GA

                  1. Valeant profile image86
                    Valeantposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                    The DOJ seems to agree that when the mob aims to halt the peaceful transfer of power, that escalates it to something more, as noted by charges of seditious conspiracy.  Something to consider.

                    I think you can handle Mitch and Lyndsey.  They are in the vocal-but no action crowd.

                  2. Sharlee01 profile image89
                    Sharlee01posted 2 years agoin reply to this

                    GA, and how many times are you obligated to repeat your opinion on Jan 6th, and if Trump should be held accountable? Perhaps keep a copy of your statement to paste.  And, when will it be time to just say -   well you know what.

          2. Credence2 profile image79
            Credence2posted 2 years agoin reply to this

            GA, how can educated, reasonable people just love a man independent of how he performs on the job?

            What idea that Trump represents? Unlike more doctrinaire conservatives and Republicans, he believed and only advocated what was to his political and personal benefit.

            Conservatives don't like the direction the country is going in? Nominate a responsible and reasonable conservative type, although I won't vote for he or she.

            Liberals bad mouth "deplorables"? Trump said that he love the uneducated. Why would he say that? Is it a compliment or did he say it because the unschooled are just that more susceptible thus more receptive to Trumps BS and cons. I would call that a back hand insult.

            Me and my half don't trust Republicans and see their version of "truth" as madness, so how do we advance the conversation? It has become apparent within the last 4 years that the extreme from the Right is being let into the mainstream Republican politics and not the exceptions that we are told to believe. Abortion rights, storming of the Capital. Our extremes have never reach the levels of the Right.

            This Obama cash and phone stuff is just racist bigotry and is another unfortunate characteristic, regardless of what conservative may say, of so much of Trumps support. If you can't rise above that, then you (they) are deplorable.

            Right, Maher's message does say different things for different folks.

            1. GA Anderson profile image87
              GA Andersonposted 2 years agoin reply to this

              You open with a version of  Valeant's "Why still?" question. And it beat's the hell out of me. I am encouraged by the stats that show the devoted Trump-lover base is in sharp decline. I am somewhat resigned to the answer for many remaining Trump supporters is one of zeal for partisan power. Beyond that, I dunno.

              Racist bigotry? I didn't mention race or phones. Were there no white folks in the crowds in the ads that showed clips of the Democrat "Obama cash" folks?

              Once more, your response is to inject race and racism first. But since you did, how would you describe those black "Obama cash" devotees, are they disgusting uneducated deplorables too?

              GA

        3. Sharlee01 profile image89
          Sharlee01posted 2 years agoin reply to this

          Oh my,  gets better as the conversation progresses.  The air must be getting thin up in here...

          "But we're still waiting for many who went down the MAGA rabbit hole to poke their head out, as Maher says; and come back to reality.  So far, there's no sign that they want to stop dating the psycho.  No sign that they care to live in reality. "'

          Did it ever hit you that a good number of Americans are were and still are on board with making America great again, and now once again? There are many in this country that are done with the fluff and puff BS of Government, and will no longer settle for the status quo. We are very much not interested in going backward, with sheep-like citizens.

          You don't get it, and you never will, we have moved away from the status quo, and have no intention of letting it take hold again. That's something you and your's will just need to deal with...   

          No nightmare, a dream. A dream of a better America.

          "Perhaps if any can accept that their reality is false, there will be some olive branches extended.  For now, many reasonable people that we used to converse with here have just drifting further down the MAGA rabbit hole instead of seeing that they should exit that nightmare."

          This is a ridiculous statement -- Not sure if you noted, that not many are actually responding to some of the liberal users here.  So, guess no need to stand there with your "olive branch".  OMG, this is so laughable.

          1. Valeant profile image86
            Valeantposted 2 years agoin reply to this

            The air must be non-existent causing brain damage in here also.  Posting petty insults will reap what they sow.

            How does attacking your own Capitol make American great exactly?  How does ignoring the reports on the dangers in Wuhan and allowing a dangerous virus to develop make it great?  How does openly violating laws like the Hatch Act make it great?  How does making death threats to elections workers and teachers make America great?  How does coddling white supremacists make America great?

            Yes, many MAGA followers have shown they are standing behind those actions that did not make American great, but showed that they do not believe the laws of their government apply to them.  Breaking laws and being generally uncivil does not make American great, it makes it toxic.

            I get it that many MAGA cultists do not believe in their government.  It's why so many see them as the greatest danger that currently exists in the country, which they are in complete denial of.  Their dream of authoritarianism is their dream alone while the rest of us stand by democracy.

            1. Sharlee01 profile image89
              Sharlee01posted 2 years agoin reply to this

              I in no respect insulted you personally. 

              "How does attacking your own Capitol make American great exactly?  How does ignoring the reports on the dangers in Wuhan and allowing a dangerous virus to develop make it great?  How does openly violating laws like the Hatch Act make it great?"

              BOY did I hit a nerve...  The problem is Trump is not guilty of any of the above.

              And talk about toxic ---  accusing mere strangers of being "cultists" lawbreakers, and authoritarians.

              Trump's administration in no respect showed any form of
              authoritarianism. That would be the new Biden administration, the Government overreach from this administration is very much obvious.

              1. Valeant profile image86
                Valeantposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                And neither did I.  Mine was also a general statement that expanded on your own thought.

                Actually, Congress did publish a finding that Trump violated the Hatch Act.  Dig deeper.  There is credible reporting that Trump's State Department was briefed on the dangers of Wuhan.  And it was Trump that sent his crowd to the Capitol despite the plan being to remain at the ellipse.  The Capitol security was not prepared since the rally supporters did not get a permit to protest there.  That is clear culpability on Trump's part.

                When those strangers make death threats (which violates the law) and deny the reality that there was no significant fraud in 2020, believing only what the leader says, the word cultists definitely applied.

                And your denial of Trump's authoritarian tendencies is not surprising in the least as you're the biggest Trump apologist on this site, by far.  As I've shown you, Eastman knew that he was asking Pence to violate the Electoral Count Act and Trump was pushing that illegal theory that morning. 

                What is someone that is willing to violate the Constitution to remain in power?  What is someone who does not accept valid election results and the will of the people?  What is someone that does not acknowledge a free and fair election?  That'd be an authoritarian.

                1. Sharlee01 profile image89
                  Sharlee01posted 2 years agoin reply to this

                  Perhaps you need to back up your accusations that Trump violated the Harch Act and any other of your accusations. As I do.

                  "And your denial of Trump's authoritarian tendencies is not surprising in the least as you're the biggest Trump apologist on this site, by far."

                  I find it so odd how you frequently request others here to confirm their views in regards to anything Trump.  And if a user defends Trump in any incident you label that person frequently with a derogatory label.

                  You certainly should realize others here on this forum have the right to their individual views. Not all agree with your views, and perhaps you should respect others' rights to freedom of speech.

                  I don't appreciate unproven assumptions, be it about Trump or anyone else.

                  1. Valeant profile image86
                    Valeantposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                    The more accurate statement about the Hatch Act is that 13 members of his senior administration violated the Hatch Act during the 2020 campaign and he did nothing about their violations because they were to help his re-election.  So technically, it was more a violation of his oath to see that the laws are faithfully executed.

                    https://osc.gov/Documents/Hatch%20Act/R … ection.pdf

                    Is it a label to note that you see very little wrong with Trump's presidency where 66% of the country disapproved of the job he did by the time he left office.  You are certainly in the vast minority of thinking that the job Trump did was good.

                    Sure you can have an opinion, but pointing out that it's a minority opinion and that you always try and excuse Trump's worst acts is reality.  If you find being an apologist is derogatory, so be it.

          2. GA Anderson profile image87
            GA Andersonposted 2 years agoin reply to this

            "done with the fluff and puff BS of Government"

            Hot damn, I wish I had thought of that description.

            GA

            1. Valeant profile image86
              Valeantposted 2 years agoin reply to this

              You might be shocked, but many a liberal also believes that government is bloated and could use some paring down.  A fiscally responsible democrat is very appealing and the fact that Biden is currently running a surplus, which of course no one on the right will dare acknowledge, is an accomplishment to be proud of.

              On top of that, a balance budget law would be one that should get bipartisan support.  Kathryn's going to get triggered that I used the word should again.

              1. GA Anderson profile image87
                GA Andersonposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                I wouldn't be shocked. I believe most citizens, (not politicians, for them, I would say rarely, not mostly), are within the guard rails of political beliefs and policies support. It is the fringes and over-zealous of both sides that jump the rails and do idiot stuff.

                GA

            2. Sharlee01 profile image89
              Sharlee01posted 2 years agoin reply to this

              One can tell I am pissed off when I use fluff and puff. followed by BS. I could have used the old worn-out - smoke and mirrors. I will save that description for when I have a cooler head.

    4. Sharlee01 profile image89
      Sharlee01posted 2 years agoin reply to this

      I have been following your conversation with GA which seems to start with this post. First, why in the world would you presume that some here would respect what nighttime comedian/ nightly news jock opinion?  His educational background would seem to be lacking in true politics. In my view --  He is a snarky narcissistic tool. I won't go further with insulting Bill Maher but be assured I could. But, I could certainly write a book on the subject --- "Why Would Anyone Respect Bill Maher's Opinions But A Liberal".

      1. Credence2 profile image79
        Credence2posted 2 years agoin reply to this

        Why Would Anyone Respect Bill Maher's Opinions But A Liberal".

        Perhaps, I say the same thing about Tucker Carlson and Hannity.

        1. Sharlee01 profile image89
          Sharlee01posted 2 years agoin reply to this

          "Perhaps, I say the same thing about Tucker Carlson and Hannity."

          And you would be correct...  It would seem many do need these talk jocks, and do hang on their every word, and come to spread the ideologies of these paid talk jocks.

          Me, I like to pride myself on being a free-thinking individual, that comes to my own conclusions without input from celebrities. I have little respect for people that parrot celebs.

          Hey, hopefully, you could see I was venting --- Just really disgusts me when anyone posts words of wisdom from talk jocks.

        2. GA Anderson profile image87
          GA Andersonposted 2 years agoin reply to this

          And you would be right. relative to the messenger, of course.

          GA

      2. Valeant profile image86
        Valeantposted 2 years agoin reply to this

        Of course you don't address the details of the candidates, but only resort to attacking the source.  It's your typical deflection away from the main point, that the clown show of candidates the GOP is putting forth would be comical if the party had not devolved so far.

        When you are willing to discuss the actual point of posts, feel free to stop back in.

        1. Sharlee01 profile image89
          Sharlee01posted 2 years agoin reply to this

          Yes, I attacked the source, Bill Maher.  Why in the world should I address his opinion about candidates?  I have no respect for him or his opinion. He is a talk jock. 

          That's about it, I have no intention of discussing anything with you. To be honest,  I have no interest in your opinion, too liberal for me, and I don't respect your ideologies. I will leave it at that.

          1. Valeant profile image86
            Valeantposted 2 years agoin reply to this

            So you just posted to be a troll.  What a waste of time.  Next time just avoid my post then if you don't want to discuss ideas.

      3. GA Anderson profile image87
        GA Andersonposted 2 years agoin reply to this

        Why? How about because his comedic observations reflect your own perception? As for his credentials, who cares, you either agree with what is said or you don't.

        In this case, where the discussion is about the message, not the messenger, then the messenger's credentials don't matter. You either agree or disagree with the message. I agree with many of his "opinions."

        GA

  9. Kathryn L Hill profile image77
    Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago

    I really detest the word "should."

    1. Valeant profile image86
      Valeantposted 2 years agoin reply to this

      Thank you for proving my point.  All you took from my post was verbiage and no acknowledgement that those in the MAGA movement attempted a violent coup to undermine democracy.  You didn't even blink when it was mentioned.  That's a great example of being satisfied with how far down the MAGA rabbit hole some have climbed.

      1. Kathryn L Hill profile image77
        Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this

        My mode now is to not rock the boat - just keeping low key in order to let the boat stay steady.
        - don't want any one falling off without a life jacket.

        1. Valeant profile image86
          Valeantposted 2 years agoin reply to this

          My mode is throwing those trying to smash holes in the one boat we know works overboard with their life jackets.  The name of my boat is called democracy.

      2. GA Anderson profile image87
        GA Andersonposted 2 years agoin reply to this

        Hopefully, you will see this comment after you see my previous reply to you, (re: the Maher link), because, to me, it illustrates, almost exactly, the point I made in that previous reply.

        ". . . no acknowledgement that those in the MAGA movement attempted a violent coup to undermine democracy. '

        I am one of those that don't think that is an accurate description of what happened. (wait, that argument has already been had, no need to start it again, we just disagree), I don't think I am part of the MAGA movement, so if I don't agree with your reality of that event, then just imagine how a Trump supporter would feel about the "truth" of your statement.

        So, to borrow your words, thanks for proving my point.

        GA

  10. Kathryn L Hill profile image77
    Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago

    should
    /SHo͝od,SHəd/

    verb
    modal verb: should
    1.
    used to indicate obligation, duty, or correctness, typically when criticizing someone's actions.
    "he should have been careful"

    1. Valeant profile image86
      Valeantposted 2 years agoin reply to this

      1.  used to indicate obligation, duty, or correctness, typically when criticizing someone's actions.

      'he should have followed the Constitution since he took an oath to do so.'

      Pretty sure swearing an obligation and duty makes should something he and his followers ought to have done on January 6.

  11. Kathryn L Hill profile image77
    Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago

    One should not rock the boat or everyone will get seasick.

  12. Kathryn L Hill profile image77
    Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago

    We should all be on board with progressive ideologies.
    We should change the world for the better.
    We should prevent climate change.
    We should all drive electric cars.
    We should allow abortions.
    We should allow sex change operations for children.
    We should allow transgender people the right to their preferences.
    We should make sure all people can vote.
    We should let all people cross the border

    Any other "shoulds" you would like to throw in, that we need to know about?

    1. Valeant profile image86
      Valeantposted 2 years agoin reply to this

      Ah, yes.  Another far-right person who incorrectly thinks they know what the liberal left believes.

      My only should I am talking about here is people should leave a movement that ignores the laws and Constitution and uses domestic terror as a political tool to keep the leader of that movement in power.

      Like I said, you won't even talk about the attempted coup and instead try to deflect away from it.  That you a.) won't even talk about it and b.) don't even consider that you should leave that kind of movement, says so much.

      1. Kathryn L Hill profile image77
        Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this

        What's to discuss?

        No one should follow Trump's movement because:
        1. It ignores The Constitution / laws.
        2. It uses domestic terror to keep Trump in power.

  13. Credence2 profile image79
    Credence2posted 2 years ago

    Yes, Bill Maher is correct regarding Democrats and liberals allowing moderate conservatives and Republicans back into the folds of being reasonable people. But the fact that they could fall under the spell and allure of one demented man, means that from my standpoint, they are on probation.

    This "election was stolen" refrain has to be getting kind of old among the Trumper crowd. The fact that he (Trump) continues with it means that his "confidence man" routine still works for far too many. So, if you are running for office as a Republican, unless you support the lie or pretend to in public, he will recommend that you be primaried. What sort of political party and its adherents would allow one man to have that sort of power, not over ideas and policy but just plain caprice and jealousy?

    All you are really that far gone?

  14. abwilliams profile image69
    abwilliamsposted 2 years ago

    Well you didn't get my point so....just clarifying

  15. abwilliams profile image69
    abwilliamsposted 2 years ago

    Interesting. I see that Gallup currently has Biden's approval at 33%, which seems very high.

    1. Valeant profile image86
      Valeantposted 2 years agoin reply to this

      Really, because I see it as 42%, with an average term of 48% so far.

      https://news.gallup.com/poll/329384/pre … biden.aspx

  16. Valeant profile image86
    Valeantposted 2 years ago

    Cred:

    Some serious delusional projection recently to deny the attempted attack on democracy going on from Trump and his allies.  If that's really the perception, it's hard to take much else seriously since that worldview is so outside actual reality, don't you think?

    1. Credence2 profile image79
      Credence2posted 2 years agoin reply to this

      It is Valeant, the Right has been downplaying the seriousness of this insurrection, making it all sound like a junior high excursion trip.

      This sucks and we are in great danger as what once went for restraint in the past have now been broken. They will "dare" now because our side has been weak and not appreciating the danger for what it is.

      I think that the Rightwinger knows better, but are pleading the 5th. Who wants to admit that they are simple enough to be carried away by the muttering of a single tyrant?

  17. Valeant profile image86
    Valeantposted 2 years ago

    Not many Democrats felt safe with Trump in the Oval Office.  Realizing from Day 1 that the leader of the country was going to lie, even about the most easily provable things like crowd sizes, meant there was zero trust in what he was going to do going forward.

    If you're going to judge Biden based on the effects of Covid on the economy, you need to judge Trump on those same effects and factor in his 2020 economy.  That would be the fair way to do it.

    Trump policies largely benefitted himself and the rich.

    Unique encounters in 2019 and 2021 were largely comparable, meaning that nearly the same amount of people were coming.  The difference being that now we try and look after children coming and not allow a dozen or so to die in our care, nor do we violate human rights and separate families and get sued because of the damage it caused.

    It's hard for a country to heal when the outgoing administration does not support the new one and makes up falsehoods undermining them.

 
working

This website uses cookies

As a user in the EEA, your approval is needed on a few things. To provide a better website experience, hubpages.com uses cookies (and other similar technologies) and may collect, process, and share personal data. Please choose which areas of our service you consent to our doing so.

For more information on managing or withdrawing consents and how we handle data, visit our Privacy Policy at: https://corp.maven.io/privacy-policy

Show Details
Necessary
HubPages Device IDThis is used to identify particular browsers or devices when the access the service, and is used for security reasons.
LoginThis is necessary to sign in to the HubPages Service.
Google RecaptchaThis is used to prevent bots and spam. (Privacy Policy)
AkismetThis is used to detect comment spam. (Privacy Policy)
HubPages Google AnalyticsThis is used to provide data on traffic to our website, all personally identifyable data is anonymized. (Privacy Policy)
HubPages Traffic PixelThis is used to collect data on traffic to articles and other pages on our site. Unless you are signed in to a HubPages account, all personally identifiable information is anonymized.
Amazon Web ServicesThis is a cloud services platform that we used to host our service. (Privacy Policy)
CloudflareThis is a cloud CDN service that we use to efficiently deliver files required for our service to operate such as javascript, cascading style sheets, images, and videos. (Privacy Policy)
Google Hosted LibrariesJavascript software libraries such as jQuery are loaded at endpoints on the googleapis.com or gstatic.com domains, for performance and efficiency reasons. (Privacy Policy)
Features
Google Custom SearchThis is feature allows you to search the site. (Privacy Policy)
Google MapsSome articles have Google Maps embedded in them. (Privacy Policy)
Google ChartsThis is used to display charts and graphs on articles and the author center. (Privacy Policy)
Google AdSense Host APIThis service allows you to sign up for or associate a Google AdSense account with HubPages, so that you can earn money from ads on your articles. No data is shared unless you engage with this feature. (Privacy Policy)
Google YouTubeSome articles have YouTube videos embedded in them. (Privacy Policy)
VimeoSome articles have Vimeo videos embedded in them. (Privacy Policy)
PaypalThis is used for a registered author who enrolls in the HubPages Earnings program and requests to be paid via PayPal. No data is shared with Paypal unless you engage with this feature. (Privacy Policy)
Facebook LoginYou can use this to streamline signing up for, or signing in to your Hubpages account. No data is shared with Facebook unless you engage with this feature. (Privacy Policy)
MavenThis supports the Maven widget and search functionality. (Privacy Policy)
Marketing
Google AdSenseThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Google DoubleClickGoogle provides ad serving technology and runs an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Index ExchangeThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
SovrnThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Facebook AdsThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Amazon Unified Ad MarketplaceThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
AppNexusThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
OpenxThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Rubicon ProjectThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
TripleLiftThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Say MediaWe partner with Say Media to deliver ad campaigns on our sites. (Privacy Policy)
Remarketing PixelsWe may use remarketing pixels from advertising networks such as Google AdWords, Bing Ads, and Facebook in order to advertise the HubPages Service to people that have visited our sites.
Conversion Tracking PixelsWe may use conversion tracking pixels from advertising networks such as Google AdWords, Bing Ads, and Facebook in order to identify when an advertisement has successfully resulted in the desired action, such as signing up for the HubPages Service or publishing an article on the HubPages Service.
Statistics
Author Google AnalyticsThis is used to provide traffic data and reports to the authors of articles on the HubPages Service. (Privacy Policy)
ComscoreComScore is a media measurement and analytics company providing marketing data and analytics to enterprises, media and advertising agencies, and publishers. Non-consent will result in ComScore only processing obfuscated personal data. (Privacy Policy)
Amazon Tracking PixelSome articles display amazon products as part of the Amazon Affiliate program, this pixel provides traffic statistics for those products (Privacy Policy)
ClickscoThis is a data management platform studying reader behavior (Privacy Policy)