Trailer Trash.
This is a forum on GOP Trailer Trash. Feel free to add to it as you see fit.
Marjorie Taylor Greene says Joe Biden can't define what a woman is, but she can't even spell it
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics … 8feb804e60
Boebert Facing Defamation Lawsuit
https://www.nbc11news.com/2022/10/06/bo … n-lawsuit/LOL A typo, or auto-correct makes a person into "trailer trash"?
Or taking offense to unsupported claims of malfeasance, and calling out the speaker on it, makes a person that same "trailer trash"? From the "me too" movement to MSM that refuses (or can't) prove their allegations, it is very common to make statements that cost people dearly...and then whine when the same is done to them. Shame on the muckrakers for adding to this practice. If they are unwilling, or unable, to prove their defamatory statements then they should not be making them.Since I live in a mobile home in a mobile home park I kinda' take offense of the usage of trailer trash. Shame on you!!
Well, we know that Marjorie Taylor Green isn't "trailer park" trash because she's being investigated for filing homestead tax status on two homes, neither of which is a trailer. A person is allowed only one homestead exemption, and she should know that.
https://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/fulton … ZV44QC6XY/
Rich trash, maybe?
Thanks for yet another racist/elitist post.
Not sure where you want this thread to go? I can share my political view of the two, their job performance, and how they conduct themselves.
Both seem very outspoken, and much of the time what they say is hyperbolic and makes little sense to me, but ends up in a media stir.
I look at these two politically as the far right's answer to the "squad". Not at all impressed, wish they were not sitting in Congress, as I wish the squad were not members of Congress. However, I could clean houses on both sides of Congress. America has certainly scraped the bottom of the barrel in the last decade.
Not up for labeling anyone on where they live or just assuming all that live in trailers could be trash. Just seems very much something an elitist might say.Not all who live in trailers are trailer trash and people know that, but these two in my book are. They have lowered the bar on what is acceptable behavior in congress. They are both Trump's spawns and lie just like he does.
The new thing now in the political arena is to consider lying and its consequences. If the consequences are not that bad then just continue to lie. That's what Trump does and that is how he gets away with it.
Besides MTG is also a member of QAnon. How in the hell does that happen? That shows you how low the standards are in some states.
I apologize for those who live in trailers and are upstanding citizens, but there is an element who are not.So do these women actually live in trailers? Am I missing something? I don't think you meant to insult Americans that live in Trailers.
I agreed I find them poor representatives, and feel very dismayed about what our Congress has become due to both sides lowering the bar. However, the far Right and far Left representatives I don't care for were sent to Washington by the voters.It looks like Ms Boebert is in danger of losing her seat. She certainly doesn't deserve it. What a colossal waste of a term. To squander an opportunity like that is just crazy. I'd say she treated her congressional seat like trash.
I think a great percentage of Congress treats their congressional seats like trash. I am and have been ashamed of many congressmen and women over the past decade. Many thoroughly discuss me. The list is long. I find many to be discussing liars and many courrupt.
My impression is that I could count on my fingers the number of legislators that are honest, upstanding people working for the good of our country.
Considering the topic of this thread ("trailer trash") it might be better as "mansion trash" - the large majority (including one of those listed in the OP) have a degree and are not uneducated, but they ARE (mostly) pretty wealthy.
So MTG has a BA in business administration, big deal. She also is a member of QAnon and believes their conspiracy theories, she is racist and hates Jews. How educated can she be? Having a degree does not necessarily make a person educated.
Have you looked into the ideologies of the "squad", and their racist remarks in regard to Israel? It's very clear a college degree has nothing to do with racist ideologies or where on lives.
I have, and I don't like them either. I don't like extremists of any variety.
We have this in common. As I said in my very first post here. --- Not sure where you want this thread to go? I can share my political view of the two, their job performance, and how they conduct themselves.
Both seem very outspoken, and much of the time what they say is hyperbolic and makes little sense to me, but ends up in a media stir.
This thread took a hard turn...
Trailer Trash is a euphemism for A poor, uneducated, and unsophisticated person who typically lives in or was raised in a trailer park. That is how I see MTG and Borbert. They think it is all fun and games as they put down others and organizations they don't like
Conservative rabbi hammers Republicans for silence on Marjorie Taylor Greene's 'Jew hatred'
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics … b5453842f3Euphemism from Merrium-Webster means:
"A euphemism is an agreeable or inoffensive word or phrase that is used instead of one that may offend or suggest something unpleasant."
So, based on that meaning what is the offensive term or word that was not used?It is a very offensive word. However, I am not in the least surprised he used it. Using this form of language, makes me wonder, why one feels it necessary to use offensive words to communicate.
Seems we have a segment of our society that feel they just have that right...
There are different levels of trailer trash. Trump and his family are high class trailer trash. They all failed getting top secret clearances when they went through the legitimate screening process, but yet Trump demanded that they get top secret clearances anyway. So now you have the family including Jarred who don't have a clue of what they have access to, but it could be detrimental to the security of the nation. But Trump likes to surround himself with family members because he can trust them to advise him.
I worked for the National Security Agency on black box stuff that didn't even have names on the devices. I had a secret clearances with crypto access. It took weeks to get my clearance. They even questioned my relatives in Italy. And you have Trump and his family getting top secret clearances with access to everything in the entire national security community and apparatus. I picture them like ants infiltrating the sugar bowl.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics … 6369c55d77I am just glad I don't live with such hate in my mind and heart.
So -- If I understand your thought process in regard to "There is different levels of trailer trash. Trump and his family are high-class trailer trash."
So is Biden family high-class more trial trash? I mean his son alone should offer him the title of high-class trailer trash - sleeping with his dead brother's wife, love child with a stripper, crack head, pron addicted, porn star son. (I got to view a couple of Hunter's homemade porn flicks before they were taken down). Wow is all I can say. Depravity at its best.
And then there is the "big guy", old dad... Let's walk down memory lane. I think we will agree these memories will serve to label Joe and Hunter, what you refer to as trailer trash. I don't feel in any respect they are what you call "high-class trailer trash... Because none of them had any money before Biden became VP.
For starters --- Federal agents see chargeable tax, the gun-purchase case against Hunter Biden https://www.washingtonpost.com/national … n-charges/
I predict he will be indited. You can hold me to this one.
Much has been reported on Hunter, Joe and Jim Bidens pay for play.
You want to talk despicable offsprings ---
Packin’ heat: Nude Hunter Biden cavorts with hooker, gun in latest mess for president
By Joshua Rhett Miller,
https://nypost.com/2022/06/06/naked-hun … un-photos/
Hunter Biden's ex-wife Kathleen Buhle describes his addiction, and learning about his affair with his sister-in-law --- YUCK
https://www.foxnews.com/media/memoir-hu … aw-secrets
EXCLUSIVE: Hunter's search history reveals his obsession with porn and sex fantasies including '18yrs old,' 'lonely widow' and 'MILF crack cocaine porn,' he uploaded his OWN amateur videos and texted Pornhub link to phone listed in his contacts as 'Dad
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl … -porn.html
Hunter Biden’s former business partner says top ex-FBI official needs to answer questions
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/20 … s-top-ex-/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBLRrhPrMOQ
The apple did not fall far from the tree --- What We Know About Tara Reade's Allegation That Joe Biden Sexually Assaulted Her
EXCLUSIVE: 'It's a disease from mommy and me.' Joe Biden's shocking admission of addiction is disclosed in texts to son Hunter - as it's revealed FIVE members of the Biden family have been to rehab for drug or alcohol abuse
Joe Biden's children Hunter and Ashley, his brother Frank, niece Caroline and late son's widow Hallie have all had stints in rehab, DailyMail.com can reveal
All five of the Bidens have suffered from either drug or alcohol addiction and had spells in treatment centers – some at the orders of a judge
In text messages to Hunter from June 2018, Joe Biden referred to his son's addiction as a hereditary 'disease from mommy and me'. President Biden himself is reportedly a teetotaler
Hallie - Beau's widow who became Hunter's lover - has been to rehab four times, costing over $100,000 and some of it allegedly paid for by Joe Biden, texts reveal
Texts from Ashley, 40, on Hunter's laptop reveal that she has also had to get sober after falling prey to addiction and having run-ins with the law and sent Hallie scathing messages
Joe's brother Frank has had multiple alcohol-related driving offences and was ordered by a judge to attend rehab for three months after a 2004 arrest
Caroline Biden, 34, daughter of Joe Biden's other brother, Jim, has also attended court-ordered rehab after a DUI and has struggled for years with addiction
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl … abuse.html
Here are all the times Joe Biden has been accused of acting inappropriately toward women and girls --- Former Vice President Joe Biden, the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee, is facing heightened scrutiny over his past conduct towards women.
Eight women have alleged that Biden either touched them inappropriately or violated their personal space in ways that made them uncomfortable.
One of those women, Tara Reade, alleges that Biden sexually assaulted her in 1993. Biden has unequivocally denied assaulting or harassing Reade.
Biden has also been criticized for repeatedly commenting on the physical appearance of women on the campaign trail, and for refusing to explicitly apologize for his behavior.
Lucy Flores alleged in March 2019 that Biden grasped her shoulders from behind and kissed the back of her head without her consent during a campaign event in 2014.
Ally Coll, a former Democratic staffer, told The Washington Post in April 2019 that when she met Biden in 2008, he complimented her smile, squeezed her shoulders, and held her "for a beat too long."
Sofie Karasek, a progressive organizer, was photographed holding hands and touching foreheads with Biden at the 2016 Academy Awards. Karasek said she felt Biden violated her personal space in that interaction.
Amy Stokes Lappos alleges Biden pulled her face close to him during a 2009 political fundraiser.
Caitlyn Caruso said that after she shared her story of sexual assault at a University of Nevada event in 2016, Biden h
ugged her "just a little bit too long" and put his hand on her thigh.
DJ Hill alleges Biden rested his hand on her shoulder and moved it down her back at a 2012 fundraising event in Minneapolis. Hill said the encounter made her "very uncomfortable."
Vail Kohnert-Yount, a former White House intern, said when she met Biden in 2013, he "put his hand on the back of my head and pressed his forehead to my forehead." Kohnert-Yount also said Biden called her a "pretty girl."
In June 2019, Biden told the brothers of a 13-year-old girl to "keep the guys away" from her at a campaign event.
As I said the apple did not fall far from the tree.
Biden is a very sick man in my view, a preditor.
https://www.businessinsider.com/joe-bid … ign-2019-6
https://time.com/5831100/joe-biden-tara … llegation/
So, unfortunately, I needed to dig all this up. However, the hypocrisy was becoming very deep.My blood boils every time I read one of his elitist/racist comments. If some conservative made elitist comments like that Credence and his band would be all over them.
Me too, and I am not good at ignoring it. If we hope to curtail this type of BS, it needs pointing out.
In this case, his attack on Trump and his family makes it all very hypocritical.
I predict Joe's children are already writing books about growing up Biden. The cash cow will be no longer useful to them.Dr. Mark
It's O.K. for Trump to label people he doesn't like with god awful derogatory names, not only online, but in his rallies as well and they have sticking power.
These are my opinions and I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy in the Trump world and the GOP world that he controls. If you think it is O.K. to have QAnon members in congress, that is your problem.This has nothing to do with Trump labeling. Last I looked Trump is not posting here on the particular forum. So, you appear to be saying --- If Trump can do it so can I ...
Let me reorient you to how you were referring to "trailer trash, that would be two Republican Congresswomen. In your next comment, you reverted to your favorite subject, Trump.
There is plenty of hypocrisy in this thread. Read my lengthy post. Such a fine presentation of hypocrisy. You seem to feel it's fine to insult Trump as well as his family. How about taking a good long look at the Biden's? I could add a list of the despicable issues on that family a mile long, most with discussing photos.
Wish they would porn hub would have left Hunter's personal videos up. I can honestly say I have never seen more disgusting raunchy perverted videos in my life.
Is all of that OK with you?Sharlee: Is it O.K. with you that Trump likes to grab women by their pu**ies. and that he tried to put the make on the star of Access Hollywood while still being married?
By the way what were you doing on porn hub? That speaks volumes of your desperation to nail Hunter Biden. Too bad it is no longer available for you to use. I don' think HP would appreciate you using it anyway.Again we are not talking about Trump we are talking about Biden. Whatever Trump did or did not do in no respect alleviates Biden's sexual abuse of many women.
You can take the same position as Hunter. I am simply pointing out a fact, what the media is reporting thus far. I do feel he will be indicted, there is too much physical hard evidence to ignore Hunter's crimes. Bank records are very good evidence.
I have no intention of turning you in. You have the right to say anything you like, as long as you are not personally insulting me with name-calling.
And I think anyone here can test, I tell a person when I feel they are getting too personal, and I do tell a user when I have reported them.
Do you not see a pattern --- You just don't seem to be able to have a conversation that does not turn into an open argument.
Look at your opening comment in a couple of lines where you just call two congresswomen derogatory names. And you point out one can't spell, and the other is being sued. Now, look at how I responded. I more or less agree that we have many undesirables in Congress. My comment was calm and respectable. I shared my thoughts on your subject.
You then came back with a response and brought Trump into the conversation, and a new term for "high-class trailer trash"...
So at that point, I offered issues Biden and his son have, to point out hypocrisy. One president does not discount the other's reputation. However, you never will discuss Bidwn or the issues
I have pointed out. You just move on to more Trump...
Do you not note a pattern? Most of your conversations quickly become about Trump and become conversational.
I think you might want to consider just reading the progression of this thread.
Typical elitist, taking it back to Trump. It sounds like you are using the actions of that person to justify your bad actions now.
You are the one with a problem here.Actually, he is pointing out that so many on here support a man who does the same thing PP is doing, and yet are enraged about it only when it comes from a liberal source.
This stated as someone who had humble beginnings in the trailer park realm.Val: Bingo, Thank you. The Trumplicans are so brainwashed by Trump, they can't even recognize hypocrisy when the other side uses it to make a ;point.
It's O.K. for Trump to label those he doesn't like with all kinds of derogatory names, but when a liberal does the same thing, he or she is called a racists elitist. The only difference is Trump will continue to use those names in his speeches, rallies and communications until they become imbedded into the brains of Trumplicans. Nervous Nancy, crooked Hillary, Sleepy Joe, Shifty Shiff, just to name a few. I could go on all day..This thread was not about Trump. You quickly turned it into all about Trump. You do this frequently. You should ask yourself why?
Read your opening lines... You did just what you have accused Trump of doing. I guess it's alright for you to call names? Not sure why, seems you may think you have a group here that would defend your hyposcacy. As you see you do not.Sharlee: I'm on a mission to uncover Trump and his family for what they really are and the dysfunctional people in congress. You said Trump is not in the news, but he is and I'm proving it.
I don't need groups of people to support me. I'm just presenting the news as it unfolds to those who never get to see or hear this side of the news because of Fox, MAGA news and Rupert Murdoch.
My hypocrisy is pointing our their hypocrisy. Name calling is wrong, but Trump has done it his whole life and he gets away with it. I have done it on this forum and I'm called an elitist racist. Who is more hypocritical?
Your mission is to put down Biden and his family. We are birds of feather, just with different goals."Sharlee: I'm on a mission to uncover Trump and his family for what they really are and the dysfunctional people in congress. You said Trump is not in the news, but he is and I'm proving it. "
And what have you proved? I would be very interested to hear what you yourself have proved thus far. I said Trump has not been indicted for any crimes, this is different than one saying he is not in the news. We all know Trump has been kept front and center in the news, with many accusations, and when one investigation fizzles the Democrats start another. And just don't ever list their failures and their unnecessary slander of this man.
It's apparent you buy into each and every action, that is your right, but realistically he has thus far been charged with nothing. Example --- Jerry Nadler now makes the claim the first Trump impeachment was unconstitutional; I pointed that out to you, but you ignored it. Trump was going to be trapped with his taxes --- the congress for his taxes, there was nothing in them to say Trump himself broke tax laws. The IRS would have charged him if they could, he has been audited for many years. So is it for you to openly accuse Trump and his family of anything?
I don't think I or anyone here has a problem with what you report.
"My hypocrisy is pointing out their hypocrisy. "
You have more than shown hypocrisy on this thread. You would not even respond to the long list I offered on Biden and his son. You won't even entertain the fact that all you pretty much say about Trump and his family --- is much more evident in the Biden family. In my view, that is very hypocritical. When you use the word hypocritical, it opens a door to point out yours. And as I said this thread is a perfect example.
Not sure if you noticed, but at this point, Fox is one of the only cable media that covers all news. And gloves are off when it comes to Biden and his son.
"Name-calling is wrong, but Trump has done it his whole life and he gets away with it. I have done it on this forum and I'm called an elitist racist. Who is more hypocritical?"
Your labels are hyperbolic, using words like trailer trash is insulting to anyone that lives in a mobile home. It denotes as you said to Dr.Mark
"DrMark: Here is the definition of trailer trash: I don't think this fits your life style.
Derogatory description for a person who seems well-suited to residential life in a mobile home park and is distinguished by poor hygiene, foul language, and strewing trash on their grounds."
Do you feel either of the Congresswomen this thread was about, fit this bill?
No, we are not sharing the same goal, because I am more than willing to point out issues I might have with Trump, and actually. You won't even touch on Biden or his son.
I have an open mind, and I certainly do post current issues I have with Biden. I also try to give information on how I came to a given view. With Biden, it's very easy. I as a rule can quote him, and give examples to prove my point.
My mission is to chat about current political news. I have certainly entered many conversations that you post that are relevant and current. All end up in a Trump-bashing frenzy. And most are about very old Trump news.
I have always tried to be polite to you. But I think we have such different views it is not really constructive to converse with you. I am walking away from this thread.Damn Sharlee, you're going to run out of people to "converse" with.
GA ;-)
You might think that racist and elitist comments by one person you oppose make it okay for him to make a racist and elitist coment because he supports your views. Too bad you accept his "two wrongs make a right" standards. I do not.
You fabricate acceptance, just like so much else the right fabricates about anyone who criticizes them. Noting hypocrisy is not acceptance.
Fabricate acceptance of what? Are you saying that because I accept Trumps policies towards China I think it is okay for him to mock handicapped people? I do not, no more than I think it is okay for the OP to mock people that have to live in trailers.
DrMark: Here is the definition of trailer trash: I don't think this fits your life style.
Derogatory description for person who seems well-suited to residential life in a mobile home park and is distinguished by poor hygiene, foul language,, and strewing trash on their grounds.
However, I am using this in a derogatory sense to describe those in government including certain congressmen and Trump and his family who have never held a government position before. Their background is from the real estate world. Therefore, they show their ignorance by their behavior.
Trump with his top secret documents strewn all over the floor and stuck between magazines and MTG with her conspiracy theories about Jews from outer space.
Further, I'm making the point, that it's O.K. for Trump to use derogatory language to insult others, but when a liberal does it they are called elitist racists. He does this all the time for anybody who opposes him and/or those he doesn't like.LOL Now that's funny!
You do realize that it was the FBI that made that mess on the floor in order to get a fine photo op? Sounds like you bit, and bit hard, at their bait."However, I am using this in a derogatory sense to describe those in government including certain congressmen and Trump and his family who have never held a government position before. Their background is from the real estate world. Therefore, they show their ignorance by their behavior. "
As I used the term to describe Hunter and his dad. Yet you seem to have missed or ignored my comment, and the list of issues I listed clearly fit your description of "elite trailer trash".
Hopefully, you will address my lengthy comment, you may have missed.Damn Mike, stop digging.
No matter what intent you had in your word choice or the direction you intended it to go, there is only one bottom-line conclusion: your explanations, taken either way—in the derogatory 'deplorables' sense, or the innocent descriptive label sense, end up as acceptance that two wrongs can make a right—if it's your right.
'He said bad shit so it's okay for me to say bad shit,' shouldn't work for you. Even if the "he" really did say the bad shit, and your bad shit is really true, and the hypocrisy you note is real, that doesn't change the hypocrisy of your justifications.
Stop digging.
GA
You fabricated my acceptance: 'Too bad you accept his "two wrongs make a right" standards.'
My noting that the right's acceptance of their party head openly making repeated racist statements like 'Pochontas, China Virus, and now Coco Chow' does not give them any moral high ground in matters of racism.
It's just noting that the only time anyone calls out racism is when it's from the opposing political party.
For my part, the OP is wrong in labeling two small business owners as trailer trash. I do question their educational credentials for the jobs they currently hold. But many of the other negative connotations that go along with the trailer trash label do not fit at all.
Do you see one side being more critical, less polite, and less able to accept the views of others here on this very thread? Context can be an eye-opener. Read this thread from start to finish. One side is calling names, one side is being rude, and one side is not.
This thread is a great example of what goes on here.
It's very clear this is a standard some have adopted here. So, pleased you pointed it out. The hypocrisy evades some.
Sharlee: You do realize that everything you say about Biden and womanizing can be applied to Trump as well? I'm going to take the same position on Hunter Biden that you take on Trump being indicted. I will wait and see what the the final outcome is. Isn't the hypocrisy of both sides wonderful?
If you want to turn me in for labeling people like Trump who has been doing this for years...go ahead. It would just point out the hypocrisy even more so.Again we are not talking about Trump we are talking about Biden. Whatever Trump did or did not do in no respect alleviates Biden's sexual abuse of many women.
You can take the same position as Hunter. I am simply pointing out a fact, what the media is reporting thus far. I do feel he will be indicted, there is too much physical hard evidence to ignore Hunter's crimes. Bank records are very good evidence.
I have no intention of turning you in. You have the right to say anything you like, as long as you are not personally insulting me with name-calling.
And I think anyone here can test, I tell a person when I feel they are getting too personal, and I do tell a user when I have reported them.
Mike, I have a long-handled shovel you can borrow. ;-)
GAGA: You might as well give that shovel to Trump and the GOP congress Trump controls. They have master degrees in the fine art of shoveling.
It wasn't for that kind of shoveling, it was that hole you are digging yourself into.
GA
We Are Effed’: New Book Reveals How GOP Senators Bailed Out Trump During 1st Impeachment Trial
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/trump-im … f89f43aa5aWe Are Effed’: New Book Reveals How GOP Senators Bailed Out Trump During 1st Impeachment Trial
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/trump-im … f89f43aa5aNow you divert to Trump's impeachment.
Let's see the most current in regard to Trump's first impeachment. Let's have a look at what Jerry Nadler had to say presently on the subject. I am sure you will divert from my response, however here it is. You diverted to Trump and impeachment.
Nadler clashed with Pelosi, Schiff over first Trump impeachment, argued process "unconstitutional"
"Rep. Jerrold Nadler (D-NY), the head of the House Judiciary Committee, sparred with House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Rep. Adam Schiff over how the House would handle impeachment proceedings against then-President Donald Trump in 2019, with Nadler arguing that the process was “unconstitutional”, according to a new book.
The dispute broke out over Pelosi’s plan to hold a vote on a resolution outlining impeachment proceedings against Trump, according to excerpts from “Unchecked: The Untold Story Behind Congress’s Botched Impeachments of Donald Trump” that were obtained by Fox News.
Nadler argued with Schiff (D-Calif.), the House Intelligence Committee chairman whom Pelosi tapped to lead the effort, raising concerns that the Judiciary Committee would be unable to cross-examine witnesses as it typically does.
Nadler told Schiff at one point, according to co-authors Rachael Bade and Karoun Demirjian, reporters for Politico and the Washington Post respectively.
“I don’t appreciate your tone,” Schiff reportedly replied. “I worry you’re putting us in a box for our investigation.”
Trump was facing impeachment over a phone call to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky, in which he asked the leader to announce an investigation into Hunter Biden and his father Joe Biden, then a Democratic presidential candidate.
After being sidelined by Pelosi, Nadler made an “effort to get back” into her “good graces,” according to Bade and Demirjian, who reported that the longtime Upper West Side rep’s aides “sucked up to her staff relentlessly” to emphasize that his panel was prepared to help in the impeachment effort.
The brown-nosing proved successful and Pelosi and Schiff ultimately reconsidered the role of the Judiciary Committee, although they had “their own ideas about how he [Nadler] should run his committee process.”
“Pelosi simply didn’t trust the panel — which was stacked with liberal crusaders and hotheaded conservatives — to handle the rollout of the complex Ukraine narrative with the careful, compelling treatment it required,” Bade and Demirjian write, according to Fox News. “She couldn’t afford another Nadler screwup. The Judiciary chairman could focus on the legal business of crafting the articles of impeachment and have academics testify, she allowed. But that was it.”
In response, Nadler hired attorneys and his staffers examined records and books describing impeachment drives against former Presidents Richard Nixon and Andrew Johnson.
His team’s research found both that presidents had been able to defend themselves at impeachment hearings before the Judiciary Committee and that the president’s lawyers could attend hearings and cross-examine witnesses, as well as call their own.
Rep. Jerry Nadler has become a serial napper in Congress: ‘He was Rock-A-Bye Baby’
But Schiff was adamant that Trump would not be able to confront his accusers, a stand that Nadler could not abide.
“If we’re going to impeach, we need to show the country that we gave the president ample opportunity to defend himself,” Nadler told them, according to the book.
The authors write that the Californians worried about what Trump’s lawyers would say at the hearings, and feared it could jeopardize Democrats’ messaging before the 2020 election.
Nadler’s staff said Trump’s impeachment should look “more like Nixon” but Schiff’s team opposed that plan, saying “f–k Donald Trump,” the authors allege.
But Schiff was adamant that Trump would not be able to confront his accusers, a stand that Nadler could not abide.
“If we’re going to impeach, we need to show the country that we gave the president ample opportunity to defend himself,” Nadler told them, according to the book.
The authors write that the Californians worried about what Trump’s lawyers would say at the hearings, and feared it could jeopardize Democrats’ messaging before the 2020 election.
Nadler’s staff said Trump’s impeachment should look “more like Nixon” but Schiff’s team opposed that plan, saying “f–k Donald Trump,” the authors allege.
“Stick close to the Nixon and Clinton cases,” Nadler cautioned at one point amid Republican outrage. ”You have to arm yourself against these process complaints.”
In one meeting with Schiff’s people, the book says, Judiciary Committee counsel Aaron Hiller warned Nadler would “insist on these hearings.”
Read on --- https://nypost.com/2022/09/27/nadler-cl … onal-book/
So, it appears the first impeachment was unconstitutional if we are to believe Jerry Nadler.
What do you think of the Dems railroading Trump in an unconstitutional impeachment?
Ahh yes, Marjorie Taylor Green, the gift that keeps on giving.
House Dems plan to censure Marjorie Taylor Greene for calling Biden 'Hitler'
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics … 7549e56f94I note you have ignored my comment that gives the dirt on the Bidens. Are you unwilling to discuss these problems? Are they off-base? Or can you not face the fact that we have a president such as Biden and a president's son such as Hunter? We are discussing Elite Trailer trash are we not? Did you not coin the phrase?
Hopefully, some will join in on my comment and offer some thoughts. Because this is the current president, I would hope some would be interested in disscussing him.
Seems like crickets from both sides when it comes to good old Joe.
Odd at bestSharlee: I told you, I'm using your tactics. I'm reserving my opinion until the conclusion is given. I've learned from a great teacher.
I think anyone who follows your posts will confirm this kind of name-calling is not new to you. And please do not use me as an excuse for your behavior. I think this thread is a perfect example of how you communicate. There are many such examples in the archives.
I will await your response to my comment about Biden and his son.
Deleted
I rest my case. Hence Trailer Trash in my opinion.
She’s not bright and she’s a bully': Voters and GOP officials in Marjorie Taylor Greene's hometown have grown 'embarrassed' by her
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics … e87ac03b7f
Marjorie Taylor Greene uses her First Amendment rights to claim the First Amendment is dead
Need I say more?
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics … 16df63cb75'What's he going to do when it's not windy?' Marjorie Taylor Greene fumes about Biden's clean energy plans
I love her. Every time she opens her mouth, she justifies this forum. The sad part is her audience buys what she says.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics … 5fb98d4df5I think it fair to hear Greene's statement, her full statement, before and after the few words the media is smearing about. Context should matter when forming an opinion.
https://twitter.com/patriottakes/status … 2713176064
Lauren Boebert mocked as her ‘two words’ anti-Biden tweet backfires
Here is the other half of the dynamic duo.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/la … 4efcc0f373Marjorie Taylor Greene Goes Ballistic During Debate When Opponent Links Her to Jan. 6 Riot
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics … a5679da509First thank you for bringing up the Flowers, Greene debate. I actually watch it in its entirety on youtube. I am not sure why MSN felt green was "fuming", she was clearly very composed and answered all questions thoroughly. Her demeanor was pleasant, and at all times she seemed to be very honest and forthright, and very good at getting her point across. In my view, she more than won the debate, and I can see why the polls are so in her favor to win. I will admit I knew little about Greene, and never really heard her speak at a debate or give a speech. I was impressed. Hopefully, I can persuade some that might read this comment to listen to this debate. No gumming, no gong ballistic. I think a live performance is always better than an article. I will also say Flowers was also impressive.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m695Yf0ZQlIShe says so many absurd and conflicting things. She is a conspiracy theorist, qanon promoting lunatic. It is scary that Republicans are embracing this sort of person. She is an insult to America and anyone with any sort of intelligence. She is literally an insipid, divisive person.
That is your view. I was only disputing PP accusation that she went ballistic at the debate with Flowers. I suggest you read my comment. I am not interested in critiquing Greene, I know little about her, and I don't care, she does not represent my state. I have no control over the people that voted her into congress and looks as if they will again. Hey, I felt she won the debate, I would think her constituents felt the same.
Sharlee: I don't know what you watched. I could only watch half of your video.. MTG turned my stomach with her constant interruptions with her rebuttals. When asked about DACA she either doesn't understand what it is or she is lying. She did go ballistic every time Flowers answered a question. How is that being composed? Why would you want to defend a QAnon conspiracy theorists anyway?
Just take a look at the comments the viewers wrote at the bottom of the video. That should tell you what they thought about MTG. You have a way of saying that when you look at Trump and now MTG and praise them for things that don't exist. You are like the parent who's child is unruly at school, but you defend them any way, even though you know they are unruly.I watched the entire debate. Not sure how you came up with that. just gave my thoughts on the debate, that was your subject. I did not read the comments. I feel that is not all that fair, I just watch and form an opinion on what was said in any debate. I did not find anything in the debate on either side to have the need to defend.
You need to keep in mind, I have no concern about who wins in any other state but my own. I have one vote in the state where I live. I have no control over who wins in Georgia. Do you live in Georgia? perhaps I could see you being perturbed if you live in Georgia.
From what I read she is way ahead. The voters will vote, and make a choice of who they hope to represent them.
As I admitted I know very little about her. Just can't be concerned about who they vote for in Georgia. Naturally, I hope Republicans sweep, but I can't keep up with all candidates.This woman has said literally the most crazy idiotic things during her time in Congress. Need I remind you of Jewish space lasers? I could list every ridiculous statement that she's ever made but I won't waste my time. This woman is an imbecile. She's an insult and an embarrassment to this country. My God how stupid do politicians really believe Americans are?? It's getting laughable. Unfortunately she does impact the nation and so will the mentally deficient Mr Walker if he wins a senate seat.
"Trailer trash", "stupid", "imbecile", "mentally deficient"......
Mean Tweets Trump?
Oh...nope, nope, nope, not even close, meet the progressive woke left; it's who they are, it's what they do. Legends in their own minds, convinced, they are so much better than me, so much better than you!Who are these woke left people that you even speak of?? I mean maybe if people stop labeling others for a minute. An imbecile is an imbecile and a mentally deficient person is no different based on their right or left ideology. I don't really care, dumb is dumb. Stupid is as stupid does. And Marjorie and Herschel are just really dumb. There aren't really other words for these people. God bless them but they are simple minded. I would not be proud to claim them as part of my tribe, if I were part of a tribe. I'd be embarrassed.
These people that you continually insult, care enough about this awesome Republic of ours to step up, leave the lives they've known & do their part in fighting to save it! They aren't polished politicians and they've never claimed to be!!
They are proud Americans, that actually give a damn about this country and her citizens.
I'd choose them any day of the week over the greedy, corrupted career politicians who think they own Washington & us.
These are the people that can turn things around and save this country. Newsflash it's not going to be the rehearsed, polished crowd!I don't think that things will be turned around by anyone who can't put together coherent sentences and lies continually. Herschel Walker is most likely brain damaged and Marjorie Taylor Green is just trying to cash in on the grift with crazy conspiracy theories. Politics in America is really pathetic. It's a poor reflection on our people. What must the rest of the world think when we have people rising to power who are dumb as dirt spouting nonsense?
So you chose to triple down on the insults, that's fine, doesn't surprise me.
I will absolutely agree with the fact that things are quite "pathetic" with Dems in charge, we are in dire straits!!!
The fact that we, somehow, put Joe, Kamala and Nancy in charge!?!
You are 100% right, "the rest of the world IS thinking", what on earth are they doing over there? Why would they fire the man who had things under control, thriving, in fact!
America can shine once more, Americans can hold their heads high, once more.
But that will require, more Donalds, more Herschels, more Marjories; more lovers of and doers for {with trailers in tow} the United States of America!It's calling a spade a spade. I'm honest that way. But again you're deflecting. If you are comfortable with liars, conspiracy theorists, election deniers and generally low IQ candidates, the Republicans have you covered this midterm. And yes, it's pathetic that politicians think Americans are dumb enough to buy in on these clowns.
And yes, it's pathetic that politicians think Americans are dumb enough to buy in on these clowns.
Unfortunately, they're right. Many are that dumb. One only have to look at the rallies, the donations... A lot of braindead followers.
AB, so agree with your sentiment --- This brings up something my mom always said about society in general --- Those that do, get out and do, those that can't just stand still and preach.
Really?
" I mean maybe if people stop labeling others for a minute. "
You have repeatedly labeled Greene and now Walker, which is your right due to freedom of speech... But maybe take a look at your comments, you fault others for using labels. Seem's you feel only some have the privilege to use labeling, and some are not.
"simple-minded" "dumb" "imbecile" "stupid" "mentally deficient"
Not sure but I don't think they need your "God Bless them" they have both strived to accomplish in life, and did.I haven't labeled them, I have recognized some of their traits. Just as many here have called attention to traits of others. Many of the Republican midterm candidates are painful to listen to. They spout quite a bit of nonsense and conspiracy theory. It appears MTG has never seen the conspiracy theory she didn't like and I think it's quite obvious to many that Herschel Walker is suffers from some sort of brain injury, low IQ or both.
You make a good point. I don't understand these people who aren't concerned about anybody elected to Congress from any but their own state. When the "party" (and it doesn't matter which party is electing QAnon followers and other imbeciles) elects enough of these people who don't know how to run our nation, we are in trouble because Congress is representative of all 50 states. But one has to question the education of a person in both government and history when they say that "whoever another state elects" is no concern of theirs. Remember "what's good for general bullmoose is good for the USA". (From the musical L'il Abner)
"You make a good point. I don't understand these people who aren't concerned about anybody elected to Congress from any but their own state. When the "party"'
I think I am the person all are speaking of in regard to not being concerned about who is running in other states --- The concern you speak of will not change an outcome in a state other than your own. This was the point I was attempting to make.
Would I vote for some that are running in other states? No. Can I change the outcome in another state no...
However, I am very unhappy with our Government from top to bottom. Very concerned about where I feel the country is headed. Do I sit and wring my hands, no. I don't find that constructive, I find that useless. I take every effort to get to know the candidates in my state and vote accordingly.
We can all talk about all the candidates that we find "dumb" or ill equipt. In the long run, we have one vote. That's the only vote that concerns me.Sharlee: How would you like to have MTG as your Vice President? This is one of the reasons I have this forum. It's called being informed.
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/3 … ators-say/Well, I can answer that question very honestly. From what I have seen I would need to look hard and long into what she represents, and hear her lay out a vision. Thus far, I have not been impressed with her. I have had a look at her >gov page, which shows me she has not done much.
I am aware of her outspokenness, and due to you posting your thread in regard to her debate. I watched her debate. Which she did pretty good at, as well did Flowers. I don't at all feel she has the ability at this point to be VP. I have shared that I will be voting for a Republican in the next presidential election, no matter who is on the ticket as VP. I want Democrats out of the White House, and Congress. I won't bore anyone with the whys of it.Sharlee: Here is why I'm voting democratic. You may think it is all opinion, but to me it is all verifiable.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 … s-scandalsThanks, Mike.
I also agree with the content of the article and I will raise you one
https://www.salon.com/2022/10/21/please … th-issues/That has been my impression as well; so many vote democrat based on appearance and talk, setting aside actual deeds that affect the country and our people as irrelevant or at least of a low priority.
That's why those people prefer runaway inflation over the rough talk of Trump. That's why they would rather see a massive invasion over our southern border over the egotism of Trump. It's why they would rather experience sky high crime rates rather than Trump's tirades.
Appearance, not results, are what counts to the Democrats of today.I have examples of numerous misdeeds in addition to stupid talk from the Republicans, so Republicans get an "F" on both appearance and results....
In my view, the Dems that are running are laying low, and not really doing much campaigning. I guess they might feel the Basement Joe thing might work. Not trying to be sarcastic, but the Dems just are not out there sharing much.
What would they share? How to feed and care for illegal aliens in your town? How to feed and care for yourself as your income drops through the floor? How the elderly can eat dog food as their IRA savings disappear down a recession hole? How to ride a bike when there's no gas for the car?
I don't know that they have much to share.I must agree, they have little to share but failed policies, and overspending that most feel led to inflation, and an open border with literally millions of illegal migrants settling in a town near you. No trying to put lipstick on a pig is not easy. Best to stay out of site.
And the Democrats produced the highest inflation in 40 years (a nasty recession waiting in the wings), as well as the highest illegal border crossings ever. I'll take the "F" results of the lowest unemployment in 40 years ( in forever for blacks) and a real effort to close our borders rather than open them, thank you.
When I read the article, I came up with [pretty much what you did. I just was not up to pointing it out. I mean I have been accused of repeating my thoughts. So, thank you for sharing your thoughts.
Yeah, I read it, too. Lots and lots of exaggeration, assumptions and nearly all about appearances rather than results. Even when results were given, they were so vague (and generally bi-partisan) that they meant nothing.
Honestly, one of my top concerns right now is electing politicians who can represent all of us. I do not like or appreciate the divisive rhetoric on anyone's part. I'm tired of hearing politicians who's only platform is division.
This I will second. Neither Trump nor his replacement made any effort after the first couple of months to work together, No one in Congress does - it's "My way or the highway" for them. Even when they DO pass something with bi-partisan effort it's "See what we made the evil <Democrat's/Republicans> do against their will?".
Wilderness:
Here is what I said. I never used the word appearance, but you took what I said and twisted it into what democrats would rather have.
Here is why I'm voting democratic. You may think it is all opinion, but to me it is all verifiable.
It's not appearance that is important, it is character in a real leader. Trump has no character and he spawns followings right behind him.No, it's what they do to/for the country that counts, not what you decide their "character" is. Trump did some really good things for our nation; Biden has given us inflation, oil dependency, masses of illegal aliens roaming the country, high crime rates, and looming recession. As much as I dislike Trump, I know which results are preferable to me.
Wilderness:
Oh you mean like Trump lying about COVID would be gone in a few days just like the flu, or creating an insurrection based on a lie, or putting our country at risk by stealing highly classified documents that can be detrimental to the security of the nation, or creating doubt of our election.to where people are afraid to vote or creating candidates who will not accept losing an election and will do the same thing that Trump did.
Lying over 10,000 times is a great quality of character. I'll take temporary inflation any day over someone who is not worthy of even being in government.Again, and for the last time, I will repeat that while you look at appearance I am far more interested in results.
Not in the exaggerations you and like minded people produce ("insurrection"), not in you assumptions of what YOU think MIGHT have happened (loss of documents), not in dire predictions of future actions (candidates who will also form an "insurrection"), but in actual results.
Results like historical low unemployment. Like historical high stock market (although common to most presidents). Like a real, honest effort (that produced positive results) in closing our border. Like efforts to take China to task for their constant theft of American property. While Trump was not 100% correct, IMO, of what he found useful and right, he was so far ahead of what Biden is doing that there is no comparison possible between the two. And that's what I look at, not at what he said or what you think his words might do to people in the future.
(If you want to put the emphasis on words, at least make them words that produced actual, tangible results. Words like Biden's that he would grant citizenship to any illegals in the country if elected, words that helped produce the highest numbers of illegal border crossings in history.)
I am concerned with elections for Senators and Representatives in each and every state to keep the Republicans as a whole from gaining any control in the upcoming Congress.
AB, Must look at this kind of name-calling as a form mindset. It's obvious this kind of name-calling is used as a defense when one hits a wall, and can't defend their point. Used frequently when they divert to move away from a subject. And yes, the "I am much better than you" attitude is apparent.
Greene most certainly does have an impact on the Nation, due to being sent to Washington to represent part of Georgia, and voted to the position by a majority, and it appears she will keep her seat in Congress.
I find it so odd that Greene upsets some so much. One has no control over another State's will of the people. We have one vote to be heard in our individual state. Curious is it not?Sharlee: So much for name calling. Trump just called Bob Woodward Sleazy.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics … 8b5a712a71Perhaps Trump has been reading the HP forums. Glancing back through just the last few pages of this thread I see:
"She is a conspiracy theorist, qanon promoting lunatic."
"She is literally an insipid, divisive person."
"This woman is an imbecile."
" the mentally deficient Mr Walker"
"And Marjorie and Herschel are just really dumb."
"Herschel Walker is most likely brain damaged"
"If you are comfortable with liars, conspiracy theorists, election deniers and generally low IQ candidates, the Republicans have you covered this midterm."
" it's quite obvious to many that Herschel Walker is suffers from some sort of brain injury, low IQ or both."Oh come on now. We all are fully aware of Mr. Trump's name calling from the minute he walked into office, even when he was on the campaign trail. He was absolutely brutal.
I have always felt Trump used name-calling as a strategy. He was labeling and calling names, and sort of keying in on what some Americans were thinking that would like to say but did not have the opportunity.
He gave some that voice, and it appeared to be a strategy that worked with many. He stepped away from sounding like a rehearsed
politician, and talked to people, not at them.
And was he brutal --- "sleepy Joe" "Cryin' Chuck" "Nervous Nancy" "Mike Pounce" "Crooked Hillary" "Lyin' Hillary" "McConnell an ‘absolute Loser’"
"Biden was apparently not impressed by Trump's imprint on the White House, a new book says.
He called Trump a "fucking asshole" over "golf toys" the former president left, it says.' A clown" } a fascist" "a liar" "a Plague" "xenophobic " " a racits"
Nancy Pelosi calls Trump a 'psychopathic nut' as the president ...
Schumer calls Trump ‘a moron’
Nadler calls Trump a 'dictator'
I think it is very fair to say both sides call names. But one side goes for the throat, with very derogatory undefendable labels ---
Is this new? he calls people names every day, I would imagine. I don't agree with his anology of Woodward. That's about all I can offer up.
This hits me in the funny bone... I mean trade some of the posts here at HP. This was a thread where you labeled a woman trailer trash. I might not have the rules down yet. What I see is it's fine to call someone a derogatory name or label them liberals only. Please read some of the posts on your thread, and note who is labeling.
I can't say I don't label, but I do try not to be derogatory when doing so. And yes, I stray...
Sleazy is right up there with the term trailer trash. So, you might be on par with Trump when it comes to nasty labels.
Sharlee: Do you think just because a congressional representative represent a given district in a a state does not mean that they do not serve on committees and do not make laws and decisions that affect all of us. MTG is used as a spoke person for the for right. She is also sucking up to Trump. She has already stated she would like to be his running mate.
You said you don't have a need to defend MTG, but you did defend her in your comments.
"I am not sure why MSN felt green was "fuming", she was clearly very composed and answered all questions thoroughly. Her demeanor was pleasant, and at all times she seemed to be very honest and forthright, and very good at getting her point across."
That's not what I heard and saw."Sharlee: Do you think just because a congressional representative represent a given district in a a state does not mean that they do not serve on committees and do not make laws and decisions that affect all of us. MTG is used as a spoke person for the for right. She is also sucking up to Trump. She has already stated she would like to be his running mate."
I think you realize I realize the job of Congress. Again you need to read my words and consider the context of those words. To repeat --- You need to keep in mind, I have no concern about who wins in any other state but my own. I have one vote in the state where I live. I have no control over who wins in Georgia. Do you live in Georgia? perhaps I could see you being perturbed if you live in Georgia.
So, I ask,(and do not feel I will see you answer my question) What do you think you can do about who another state sends to our Congress?
We have no control over Georgia, so please tell me where you get off dictating who Georgia sends to Washington.
I have no problem with your view of the debate or the right to in any way disrespect your view. It is clear we took away an opposing view of Greene's demeanor. Which was actually the subject of your OP.Sharlee: Do you think you and I are the only viewers on these forums? It has to do with the makeup of my government. I am very concerned about those who have no experience in government who Trump has endorsed for his own ulterior motives.
He will make those people beholden to him. He has already intimidated the GOP senators who spoke out against him. They are now silent, because they know he can ruin their chances of getting re-elected.
So you are not concerned if democrats win both the house and the senate as long as they are not from your state, because you have no control of who wins the other states?
I see those people like finding an airplane and thinking they can fly it without any experience. They may be able to start the engine and make it taxi, but they won't be able to get it airborne. That's what we have with what I am calling trailer trash.
And as far as name calling goes, there is no better name caller than Trump."I see those people like finding an airplane and thinking they can fly it without any experience. They may be able to start the engine and make it taxi, but they won't be able to get it airborne. That's what we have with what I am calling trailer trash."
I must ask again --- what will you be doing about this?
MGT doesn't even know what monument site she is at.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics … cc344078a3So, will this new information stop her from winning her election? I am going to do a comparison, and ask are you at all worried about someone that can't remember how his own son died?
"President Biden falsely claimed that his son Beau Biden “lost his life in Iraq” in during a speech in Colorado on Wednesday.
The president invoked his son’s military service during an address before signing a decree to designate a former training site for the Army’s 10th Mountain division as a national monument.
“I say this as a father of a man who won the Bronze Star, the conspicuous service medal, and lost his life in Iraq. Imagine the courage, the daring, and the genuine sacrifice — genuine sacrifice they all made,” he said praising the storied Army unit’s heroism during World War II."
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/20 … ring-spee/
Beau Biden, who served in the Delaware Army National Guard and was awarded a Bronze Star for his service in Iraq from 2008 to 2009, died of cancer in 2015.
So, I would assume this should concern you greatly, am I correct?There should be better examples to make your point. It is easy to argue against this one. Biden was probably talking about when/why his son got cancer. Not the first time he makes the point.
2018
Former Vice President Joe Biden said he thinks toxins found in smoke from burning waste at U.S. military installations in Iraq and at other facilities abroad could “play a significant role” in causing veterans’ cancer.
“Science has recognized there are certain carcinogens when people are exposed to them,” Biden said in an interview with Judy Woodruff last week. “Depending on the quantities and the amount in the water and the air, [they] can have a carcinogenic impact on the body.”
Often, waste was burned in open-air pits, with jet fuel sometimes used as an accelerant. At many bases, virtually all waste was burned, ranging from paints, solvents, tires, plastics and Styrofoam to batteries and electronic equipment. Depending on the burn locations and prevailing winds, smoke frequently permeated these outposts and adjacent areas.
The issue appears to be personal for Biden, whose son, Beau Biden, a former Delaware attorney general, died at age 46 in May 2015 from glioblastoma multiforme, the most common form of brain cancer.
As a major in the Delaware Army National Guard, Beau Biden’s judge advocate general unit was activated in late 2008. He served in Iraq for much of 2009 at Camp Victory in Baghdad and Balad Air Force Base, 50 miles north of the Iraqi capital. Both bases used large burn pits. Earlier, he helped train local prosecutors and judges in Kosovo after the 1998-1999 war.
Biden, who was tapped by former President Barack Obama in early 2016 to lead the “Cancer Moonshot” initiative, noted in the PBS NewsHour interview that “a lot higher incidence of cancer [is] coming from Iraq now and Afghanistan than in other wars” and “a lot of work is being done” to research it.I made my point. Biden's statement was clear in my view. He made no mention of burn pits, or his son passing from exposure to burn pits in his speech. He clearly has the propensity to make up stories about his life, that prove to be untrue. He has offered many such stories. His words matter, and in this case the context was very clear. He very much seems to believe his son died in Iraq. He made no mention of what caused his son's cancer. Just that he " LOST HIS LIFE IN Iraq." He is a very confused individual, in my view.
"I say this as a father of a man who won the Bronze Star, the conspicuous service medal, and LOST HIS LIFE IN Iraq. Imagine the courage, the daring, and the genuine sacrifice — genuine sacrifice they all made,”
I could care little about what he said in the past, it's in no way relevant to what he said in regard to his son last week.Sharlee: What good things has MTG done? At least Biden has made accomplishments. MTG has co-sponsored 26 bills.. How many have been approved? Six of them are about impeaching Biden. It's like throwing sand into the wind. I'm keeping that sentence clean, if you know what I mean.
Biden is not a member of QAnon. I guess it doesn't bother you to have a member of QAnon as a congress person. Oh that's right, she doesn't represent your state.
https://projects.propublica.org/represe … nsored/117I suggest you have a look at all of my comments on this thread in regard to MTG. I have not supported her or condemned her. I sort of made all attempts to stay on the subject --- the debate you brought up in your OP.
I simply critiqued the debate, actually sharing that Flowers was impressive. Not sure why you have read something that just is not there.
I am not sure why you want my opinion on this woman, I don't know much about her, yes, due to that she does not represent my state.
Nothing of the Democrats
So, if it bothered me to have a member of Q in Congress, could I do anything much about it? Will it make me feel good to just insult a woman I do not know anything about? In my view, no.
What will you be doing about MTG if she holds her seat?
And yes, I want MTG to hold that seat, I want to have a majority in both House, and Senate. I feel we need to return to MAGA. Hey, in four years I may feel different. But right now I want to see what Republicans can do to make me feel better about what direction the country is headed.
The policies that the Democrats have offered in these last two years do not share my vision for Making America a better place to live. Very disappointed in the current state of America is in.She is not part of QAnon.
Which bills do you not approve of?
... and please tell us why not?
This is what happens when you don't know what the hell you are doing, but think you do know.
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/3 … ators-say/Here is Lauren Boebert. She doesn't even know the proper use of the phrase Freudian Slip.
https://twitter.com/patriottakes/status … f89f62793aWell do you remember MTG and the "gazpacho police'" comment? It's just mind boggling what some people will accept. This is not good. This woman needs to be flatly rejected.
Both sides do it --- More so on the Democratic side use words like Hitler, fascist, and yes Goebbels... These words are well used by Democrats in Washington, as well as left media.
‘He’s sort of like Goebbels’: Biden compares Trump to Nazi propagandist
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/09/2 … els-422047
"MAGA is "semi-fascism" Joe Boden
“Trump is clearing protests in front of the White House that are peaceful, you know, with the military. This guy is more Castro than Churchill.”
https://www.salon.com/2022/08/26/biden- … e-of-semi/
Marjorie Taylor Green on Abortion
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/you-s … 1e6bf7d60cIt is no secret or has it ever been that MTG is pro-life? She has always shared that view. She has a right to form an opinion on abortion, and share it.
Do you feel this will be a problem with her winning in Nov? Her opponent (as I said before) Flowers is very impressive, and running a good race.
The debate they had was a good one. They both made good points, and yes, had very different demeanors.
She pulled 70% of the votes in the primary. So she does have a good size base.Sharlee: There is more than just winning an election. It's what she is capable of doing while she is in congress. I also don't want a member of QAnon spreading conspiracy theories in my government. I am taking it upon myself to inform others of what her values and beliefs are about, just like you do with Biden.
Yes she and Trump both have a good size base and they all believe the election was stolen from Trump. That is very problematic in my view.Do you feel Fetterman is fit to sit in Congress, after seeing him debate last night? It was an hour-long disaster. If you did not watch it, it's now on CSpan or viewing.
To make a point --- I don't want Feddeam to be to sit in Congress if he should win. Just as you hope to see MTG be booted. We have a system it's called voting, and the majority will heard.no matter what you want or I want.
I certainly did not mention anything questioning your comment or your right to "take it upon yourself" to share, yes, as I do in regard to Biden.
I disagree that all Trump and MTG supporters are election deniers. I look at people as individuals and don't put anyone into a category.
I will stick with the majority wins, and may be unhappy, but respect the
results. Not sure it's wise to be so obsessed with something that is out of our hands.I think he is an outstanding politician with great merit and accomplishments in his life making him more than suitable to help lead our nation as a Democrat.
I think he represents everything the Party stands for today, almost as much as Biden does.Yes, the two have a lot in common. I watched the entire hour of the Fetterman debate. I can't believe this man may sit in the Senate. It sickens me. I feel very sorry for him. But, he is clearly not cognitively sound and does not belong in Congress. I can't believe Obama will stump for this
man.Sharlee: I think putting Fetterman in the running is a bad Idea. He is going to make a fool of himself and be a big target for the right wing.
it was tragic he has a stroke after winning the primary. However, it is clear at this time he would not be suited to sit in the Senate. He still may win. Our society is so split we are pretty much willing (on both sides) to vote party. In my view, we have become a society that has lost much of our common sense, and we are making our own problems.
I would think if he has not had the stroke he was a shoo-in. Lots of money was pouring into his campaign, and as I said Obama was or still might stump with him. So, we might see him win. Will we the people win with this man sitting in congress? I give up at this point.
The country is unraveling before our eyes, and it would appear that some feel this is not a problem. So, I will stick with whoever wins will tell me a bit more about the mindset of our society.
He will recover from the setbacks of his stroke. But Dr. Oz on the other hand is a carpetbagger and that is something he will never recover from.
And in terms of election deniers we are living in a really weird, detached from reality world...
https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2 … ion-trump/
I just can't get my head around this. I can't take any of these candidates seriously when they keep claiming a rigged election. And we have people out there today in Arizona with guns intimidating voters at drop boxes. This is insanity.
And listen to Mr Trump egging these candidates on.. my God it's just outright lies. I'll take a man with some halting speech over this nonsense any day.
https://twitter.com/VaughnHillyard/stat … frame.htmlFaye: This is precisely what Washington was talking about was someone like Trump and he fits the description very nicely.. One man controlling the populous with a lie because he can't accept losing an election.
"The disorders and miseries which result gradually incline the minds of men to seek security and repose in the absolute power of an individual; and sooner or later the chief of some prevailing faction, more able or more fortunate than his competitors, turns this disposition to the purposes of his own elevation on the ruins of public liberty."That is not all, Oz is a snake oil salesmen who was involved in a Acai Berry extract product some 15 years ago. My spouse, being a pigeon, fell for this scam, money was taken and never retuned as agreed. He and Trump share a similar trait, they are both very dishonest.
You are going off the subject of my comment. Please note, I was careful not to attack any candidate in my comment. Just shared my view of what voting ultimately provides. One vote and majority in the case of the Nov elections will share the majority's voices. No matter what names these candidates are called, and all the belittling the internet gives some the right to provide. The majority will ultimately be heard above us all.
"He will recover from the setbacks of his stroke."
Sad to say many do not recuperate parts of brain damage after a stroke.Not sure how you can predict that Fetterman will retire all of his cognitive abilities. We have not been privy to his medical records or an actual statement from his doctors on the record.
I have not heard any candidates while campaigning bring up election fraud. I am aware some prior to campaigning have indicated they felt election fraud could have occurred.
Not willing to fall into a Trump-bashing conversation. I long ago moved on from the 2020 election and made it clear I hope he does not run but will vote Republican no matter who they run.
I guess I can also share that after watching the Oz debate I would vote for him over Fetterman. He clearly has health problems, plus his history would truely concern me.
Trumpers are concerned about the other side harming Trump when he plays the victim. This is what happens when Trumpers and QAnon members decide to act when they can't separate the truth from fantasy.
https://www.businessinsider.com/mcgover … ck-2022-10
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/qanon … 825776df74She is a sickening individual. It baffles me that voters put her in the position she is in and even after calling for Nancy Pelosi's death she will remain in Congress. As long as Mr Trump & his sycophants remains out there beating the drum of a stolen election this kind of hate and violence is just going to continue.
Hey MTG was just reinstated on Twitter. She has her voice back.
I think her voice is vile and does nothing but provide conspiracy theory and divisiveness. Just the kind that gives fuel to those who then go out and act upon it. The violence toward Mr Pelosi is a perfect example. Look at the trail that his perpetrator
left. Nothing but conspiracy nonsense, Qanon and election denial. This stuff is so far detached from reality we need to stop giving it oxygen. Since when did we in America start thinking that hate speech is justifiable somehow?What voice, Sharlee? She subscribes to all those silly conspiracy theories without any foundation. Is this the voice of the Republican Party? What ever passed for extreme among Democrats never descends to this point,
I just meant it literally. I have shared this before, but you may have missed it. I know very little about her. I have naturally led media reports on some of her outrageous statements. PP brought up the debate between MTG and Flowers, I found both did pretty well and could call it a toss-up.
He was very upset that she was sitting in Congress and could be reelected.
Hey, I can't vote in Georgia, or can I keep MTG out of office if she wins? For all, I know Flowers may win. He was impressive. I just don't let things upset me with statewide elections. The majority will walk away with the seat. And I am not going to bash either one, I don't know anything much about either. I will say, I did learn a bit by watching the debate, I kept an open mind, and did not look for ways to dislike candidate Flowers. So, I learned not all Dems have horns, as I said, he was impressive. LOL
" Is this the voice of the Republican Party?"
In this case, it is simply the voices of whoever votes for her in her state.
And I would say if she wins it is defiantly the voice of some Republicans. It has come to the point we can not be all put in one box. The party has evolved into people that do not share all the same ideologies or even have the same hopes for the country. I think it is the same with Democrats.
Sharlee: That's all you have to say when Nancy Pelosi's husband skull was cracked open by a guy with a hammer who broke into her house and was asking for her? That speaks volumes of how you think about Pelosi.
Not sure how anyone can assign blame to the Pelosi attack. This is downright irrational and shows me a lack of common sense on the part of any person that can justify such a thought. Witchhunt,
Sharlee: That's not what I'm talking about. You showed no compassion for the fact that he was hit over the head with a hammer. Is this what you meant by Witch hunt and not assigning blame?
Just one day after releasing a tepid but grounded statement on the incident, former President Donald Trump fanned the flames of an unfounded conspiracy about the attack.
“It’s weird things going on in that household in the last couple of weeks,” Trump said. “You know, probably, you and I are better off not talking about it. The glass, it seems, was broken from the inside to the out and, you know, so, it wasn’t a break in, it was a break out,” the former President told conservative radio host Chris Stigall.
Trump went on to say that he’s “not a fan of Nancy Pelosi,” but that what happened was “very sad.” He added: “The whole thing is crazy. I mean, if there’s even a little bit of truth to what’s being said, it’s crazy. But the window was broken in and it was strange the cops were standing there practically from the moment it all took place.”
In the days following the attack, several prominent right-wing figures have floated conspiracy theories about the attack – including that Paul Pelosi and the intruder were gay lovers who had gotten into a fight.
The spurious theory traces back to an incorrect early news report and a handful of pieces of evidence that its proponents have spun wildly out of context. It runs entirely contrary to the explanation police and federal law enforcement have outlined.
“There is absolutely no evidence that Mr. Pelosi knew this man,” San Francisco Police Chief William Scott told CNN in an interview. “As a matter of fact, the evidence indicates the exact opposite.”
Also on Tuesday, Arizona Republican gubernatorial candidate Kari Lake – whose embrace of Trump’s brand of politics has been a central part of her campaign – claimed she was not making light of the assault earlier in the week despite clearly joking about a lack of security at the Pelosis’ home.
In contrast, Virginia Gov. Glenn Youngkin, a Republican who drew criticism last week after referencing the attack as part of a political swipe at Nancy Pelosi, expressed regret over his remark.
“At the end of the day, I really wanted to express the fact that what happened to Speaker Pelosi’s husband was atrocious. And I didn’t do a great job,” he told Punchbowl News.In the end I think many will be sorry about the words they shared in regard to this violent attack on Paul Pelosi. I have heard all the comments Trump has floated. I found them as you did, unnecessary, and they do cause some to question the current facts that law enforcement has shared.
I think it fair to question details, but I think as I always do --- let's wait and see what plays out. Let's wait to judge, and put spins on the issue, let's go with what we know, what has been reported by law enforcement.
I have shared with you, on many occasions I don't condone any form of violence. From the Summer of Love" to the Jan 6th riot, I have shared my feeling about the Pelosi attack on another thread being horrific and having empathy for Mr. Pelosi and his wife. I can assure you I have also read all of the information you shared. I am following the news on this horrible incident.
I have shared I feel this man is mentally ill. I feel the law will deal with him, I think he will be found to be mentally ill, and this will affect his trial.As long as we continue to have politicians pushing these crazy narratives we will only continue to see this kind of violence.
Not sure how you take it upon yourself to judge what I might feel about the Pelosi's, but Curious. A bit back on another thread I shared my thoughts on Nancy Pelosi. I offered a very respectful, actually glowing view of her job performance throughout her career. So, I take offense to your comment. I feel the person that attacked Mr. Pelosi is at fault. I in no way feel I have the right to assign blame to anyone else than the man that attacked Mr. Pelosi. As I had no thought or right to set the blame on the Democrat's horrific rhetoric that was going on when House Republican Whip Steve Scalise was shoot. I just never like to feel I am a hypocrite. Hypocrisy denotes, in my view, a very weak mind.
.
But, as usual, it seems you feel you have the right to assume anything you like about my feelings.
A very odd attribute in my view.Political hate speech is on the rise and so is the violence that often follows. This has to be addressed in some manner. Statements by politicians have gotten increasingly out of control. Words matter. We can't have people like Marjorie Taylor green accusing Nancy pelosi of treason and then telling folks that treason is punishable by death in our country. It's just not productive.
And I bring her up because she is just so heinous and it is just so easy to find examples of her incendiary rhetoric. Elected politicians should not be speaking this way. I don't care who they are or what party they belong to. An ever-growing list of books need to be banned but this kind of stuff is okay??
https://twitter.com/trinitywasmine/stat … 1acaZpQFtQI have shared over and over, I know little about MTG, and I am unconcerned with her. Maybe you should concentrate on Biden, once again he has stepped up to a podium and blamed a certain element of Americans for the Pelosi attack.
I can honestly say I don't care about candidates from other states, I have one vote. I don't have any power other than that vote, and I don't care to carry around hate in my heart.
I do care about who sits in the White House and can make my voice heard vis, my state representatives. I do call their offices and register complaints. For all the good it does.
I have also shared I am against any form of banning books. I am for making books available by age appropriate up to a certain age. So that should clear up my opinion on banning books. Period.
Sharlee:
"But, as usual, it seems you feel you have the right to assume anything you like about my feelings. A very odd attribute in my view."
Pretty defensive on your part. You never said anything about how you feel about Paul Pelosi's injuries. Is this what you were referring to as assigning blame?
https://www.cnn.com/2022/10/31/politics … i-reactionI am the one who cannot stand Nancy Pelosi! She is the most out of touch, self-absorbed, dangerously-entitled socialite to ever find a way into our government! Not sure what type of relationship she and her husband have, hopefully it can survive whatever this attack or the circumstances behind it were. Very odd!
But, most importantly, I hope that Mr. Pelosi makes a full recovery.ab: It's sad to say, but you have been brainwashed by Fox and MAGA news. Can you even begin to prove what you just wrote?
Here is everything you wanted to know about their marriage but were afraid to ask.
https://www.insider.com/nancy-pelosi-hu … ne-2022-10"ab: It's sad to say, but you have been brainwashed by Fox and MAGA news. Can you even begin to prove what you just wrote?"
PP --- What does AB need to prove? Every word is clearly her view, her feelings.
I am to understand now that post views here need to explain their feelings and views. I would think that if one wants to share how they came to their views, that would be their choice.
I will admit, I have been tempted to ask some users to explain their
views. But, felt it up to them to share.Sharlee: So then when you bash Biden it is strictly your feelings and doesn't have to be proved? So then I can tell ab she has been brainwashed and I don't have to prove it.
I can also call Trump an egotistical, narcissistic master con artist who has conned millions of people into believing Biden stole the election from him when in fact it was Trump who tried to steal the election from Biden. I don't have to prove it because these are my views and my feelings.
I don't know if you noticed, but almost every comment I have posted on this forum I have backed up with links to articles that support my reason for posting them.
If people can't prove what they have written then it can become conspiracy theory. Conspiracy theories are very dangerous because they don't have to be proved. Just like Trump stating Obama was born in Kenya and Biden stole the election from him. Those are conspiracy theories that influence millions of people, without any proof."Sharlee: So then when you bash Biden it is strictly your feelings and doesn't have to be proved? "
PP -- Frist please note that when I am sharing a "view or feelings" I clearly add the context IMO, in my view, I am sharing thoughts. Context matters when chatting online.
When I offer anything reported on Biden, I always use quotes, as a rule, Biden's own words, or other human beings offer their names.
So, in my view, one need not give an explanation of thoughts or views, unless they choose to.
You have no more right to call AB brainwashed than she or I would have the right to call you or anyone here brainwashed, IMO.
You have the right to call anyone, including Trump anything you please. You have the right to free speech. I certainly never disputed your right to say anything. And I have noted, and politely read your articles. At one point you asked me to watch a Tucker show you had a problem with. I pulled it up watched it, and critiqued it. Agreeing with you on some of your complaints about the show. I feel I am open mined, yes we have different ways of looking at things. But, I have tried hard to be polite, while still being honest.
ab clearly offered her view in the comment we are talking about. Her context was clear. My God, I must point out, you continually offer possible if comes, as many are doing here in regard to the Pelosi attacks. One side offers some facts that are available thus far, and the other has questions about the attack and some of the reports that have been offered up by the media. I look at this as human nature. And both sides are coming at the facts differently. Myself, I feel all should just cool their heels and wait for the trial, we will all at that point be exposed to clear facts, and be able to come to a more educated view. The attack was horrible, there is not one person that has posted here that has not shared empathy for this man and Nancy.
In my view, there has been nothing posted here that leads me to think they are spreading a conspiracy. What I see, is some are pointing out media discrepancies. asking questions. This is a chat, and it is very normal and common for users to dissect issues, and come up with questions.
Yes, the birth certificate issue Trump pushed, IMO was a conspiracy. He stated it as fact, not opinion. AB did not claim her view was factual.
I feel, and I have said this before, you may have a problem with deciphering context.
To recap, here are the comments for your review, note AB was offering clearly an opinion. And read your comment.
ABWILLIAMS WROTE:
I am the one who cannot stand Nancy Pelosi! She is the most out of touch, self-absorbed, dangerously-entitled socialite to ever find a way into our government! Not sure what type of relationship she and her husband have, hopefully it can survive whatever this attack or the circumstances behind it were. Very odd!
But, most importantly, I hope that Mr. Pelosi makes a full recovery.
PP --- "ab: It's sad to say, but you have been brainwashed by Fox and MAGA news. Can you even begin to prove what you just wrote?
Here is everything you wanted to know about their marriage but were afraid to ask."
You out an out called her 'brainwashed... And all for her personal view.PP I have a question for you.
I wrote an article about women and men {aka: females and males} competing against one another in sports and the fact that biological males will typically dominate biological females in one on one match ups. I stated facts! I went about it from the female perspective and how years of preparation and sacrifice for many females {in 2022} has come down to...what if a biological male decides to compete against me? What are my odds in receiving a scholarship, endorsements, etc.?
My argument in (2) attempts with this type of article was, why is all concern on the male identifying as a female and not on the biological female? Where does this leave the biological female (aka: girl/woman) going forward? Does she matter? Does the biological male identifying as a female matter more?
I attempted two articles, multiple edits and submissions, both were banned and blocked as "hate speech" and "personal attacks", according to the powers that be at HP. IF, I attempt again, I was told that I would be banned from HP.
In your opinion, did my free speech end when I entered into such sensitive subject matter, did HP take away my right to free speech when they rejected both attempts or are they protected because they've deemed my articles "conspiracy theories"?I am sorry to hear those articles were banned. Now days it seems “free speech” is only allowed if you refrain from certain subjects. You made very valid points in those articles regarding gender in sport, that many people agree with, but apparently these topics too sensitive in the current climate. “Hate speech” really?
Hi John, hard to believe isn't it or is it? The U.S. is far from the same country it once was!
I know that I need to get over it, but I invested so much time and I treaded ever so softly, but it mattered not in the end.
Que sera sera.
Thanks for your support!AB, I'm sorry that your article was banned because I would liked to have read it. I am middle of the road politically and don't agree a lot of times with you in the forums, but from your description of the article, I believe we would have found some harmony here.
ab: Without knowing HP's criteria for evaluating hate speech and without reading your article it is hard to tell why they rejected your article. You may want to see what their criteria for hate speech is by going to their community forum on writing articles. You are right it is a very sensitive subject. It could be that the person who evaluated your article might have become offended by the subject matter or they could be using an algorithm that looks for certain key words.
Sorry PP, I don't pick up any of those channels any longer, haven't for a while, not since me and my husband downsized our lives. I have an antenna now and can pick up local news only. Just fyi
What does her relationship with her husband have to do with the attack?
Pelosi said over the telephone that the guy was his friend, right? Just all seems odd to me. So I repeat, I am not sure what type of relationship they have. ???
Have you heard his 911 call? I haven't. But according to the dispatch audio, he didn't.
“RP (Pelosi/reporting person) stated that there’s a male in the home and that he’s (attacker) going to wait for his wife. RP stated that he doesn’t know who the male is, but that he (the attacker) advised that his name is David and that he is a friend. RP (Pelosi) sounded somewhat confused.”No, they weren't friends. That was a lie spread by MTG and right wing media. According to the FBI complaint, Paul Pelosi did not know Mr DePape.
I have posted my general feelings in regard to the attack. I am agianst all violence.
This is why you can't think of Marjorie Taylor Greene as just representing her state and her district.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics … 94c579cfc2You do realize she yes can speak on anything she chooses to. She has one vote in Congress. So, unless she has a point that will set off a majority vote, all her words are void. She is in Washington representing Georgia, District 14. She may not even win tomorrow.
Ultimately, she has one vote, it would then be up to the majority to consider her thoughts.Sharlee: If she is on a committee, she gets one vote. If she sponsors a bill, the bill is then assigned to a committee for study. If released by the committee, the bill is put on a calendar to be voted on, debated or amended. If the bill passes by simple majority (218 of 435), the bill moves to the Senate. There is a reason congressmen are called law makers. They do make laws, whether in the senate or the house.
I doubt very seriously that she will lose. They love her in her district.Do you feel any of her bills would be considered? here is her history this far in Congress, and the bills she has set forth. They are flaky, and none were considered. I don't see the New House Leader presenting anything flaky. He has a reputation to consider, and if the new speaker in Congressman Kevin McCarthy, is such a politician, he will keep all the very doable stuff front and center. You need to remember that most Republican congressmen and women are conservative. Yes, we have some that are "out there" so to say, but most are seasoned politicians.
She may have made a little media splash, and she is well-liked in her district, but don't think she has even made a splash in Congress. However, I understand your concerns. I have looked into what she has proposed while in Congress, and she may give cause for concern.
https://www.congress.gov/member/marjorie-greene/G000596
I noted that money was poured into Flowers's campaign last week. I have not seen any polls on MTG and Flowers.Sharlee: Out of 185 bills, she sponsored 25 of them. She co-sponsored 160 bills. She has been busy to say the least. She is definitely trying to make a name for herself.
Thanks for the link.Yes, she has been offering bills, but can you see the frivolity of what she is offering? None of her bills have been considered, and not sure even a Republican majority would move on her bills. If Republicans take the House, in my view, they will concentrate on problems that they made while campaigning.
There is no end to what MTG can do or say. She puts her mouth in gear before her brain.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics … 0b29bf6fffIn regard to Boebert --- To make a point that those that support Trump should not be put in a box. We discussed this before, and I thought this a good example to add.
Rep. Boebert is locked in an unexpectedly close race. Some constituents even have labeled her a "mini Trump." Looking back Trump won the district twice, capturing 53.1% of the vote in 2016 and 52.9% four years later. But Boebert is in a real battle with an actual candidate that is little known and was expected to lose badly.
Trump loyalists surprisingly do not seem to be as loyal as thought. This close race has become one of the nation's most closely watched midterm election battles over a seat most political observers thought Boebert would win easily, and by a mile.
In my view, this tells me some Trump loyalists were willing to look at the candidates, and vote against someone that they might feel is not who they want representing them.
Not saying she won't win, but it certainly says some that supported Trump, are not willing to support a candidate just due to Trump-supporting
a given candidate. The midterms should show this is just not the case.
And it should help stop people from thinking Trump supporters are following him blindly. My point, I appreciated Trump's agenda, but I found many candidates he backed unacceptable.Sharlee: I have been following her very closely as well. In my view, she is a Trump spawn just like MTG. I believe Trump's plan was to endorse all those who were not qualified to be in government, but they would be beholden and loyal to Trump, because they were election deniers.
That is all he required of them, because he could then manipulate them to conform to whatever he wanted. That was also Steve Bannon's plan. That's why Bannon said, "Strap in, on Nov. 8, all hell is going to break loose."I actually can't disagree. Trump did support, and still does some that were not suited to be sent to Washington. But, I think we both can see many were rejected, and common sense prevailed.
As I shared before the midterms, I felt the people would be heard, and we would see how the Majority felt. We can see, many moved away from Trump, I think right out of his base.
So, this should be something we all take note of. The results of the midterms should show you that perhaps there are not as many election deniers as you thought.
As I said Democracy has a way of righting the ship to what the majority wants. Are the people always right when stirring the ship? Hey, that will be left to be determined.
In my truthful view --- Trump lost some of his base even before the elections, he lost more after e attacked Desantis. He does seem to hope the Republican party will eat itself from the inside out. I don't think he could even win the primary at this point. From what I see on social media, people have become sick of his mouth, and his going after people we consider our own, like Desantis, and others, including his own wife Melania.
Marjorie Taylor Green shows compassion for the wrong people. She wants the courts to make nice to the Jan.6 rioters.
The idea that people have been treated unfairly for participating in a violent attack on the U.S. Capitol, as part of an attempt to overthrow the 2020 presidential election, is an extension of Donald Trump’s enormous lies that the election was rigged and stolen. Trump and many other Republicans have falsely suggested Pelosi deliberately left the Capitol vulnerable to attack.
Trump, who announced his 2024 presidential campaign this week, has said he would pardon the rioters if he wins.Are they treated as every other rioter in the past few years has been treated?
No? Then it is unfair in the extreme and that dog and pony show needs to be ended.Wilderness: All I can say is your are in denial.
Why? Because I deny that the treatment of Portland rioters is the same as those at the Capitol?
Personally, I would have to say that it is YOU that is in denial.Wilderness: I call comparing the Portland rioters to an insurrection a false equivalence. You and others who are in denial are suffering from cognitive dissonance. If you accepted the truth, your agenda would come crashing down like a house of cards. So you minimize the insurrection and try to put the Portland riot in the same box as an insurrection.
"Wilderness: I call comparing the Portland rioters to an insurrection a false equivalence."
Of course you do! It had nothing to do with Trump and there is no chance of hanging Trump over the Portland riots. Therefore they are nothing like the Capital riot, although there was (more) damage done, Government buildings were attacked and damaged in both cases, people were harmed in both cases, property was stolen in both cases, etc. in both cases. There is actually nothing that happened at the Capital that did NOT happen in Portland. Only the setting changed.
It is not possible to minimize that "insurrection" as there was no "insurrection" to minimize. Just another riot. I understand that the Trump Haters have blown it up into mountain size rather than the molehill it was, I understand that those same Haters have trumpeted over and over that the objective was to take over the country (using a fire extinguisher and a flagpole as the only weapons), I understand that the only death was a woman breaking into the building (although multiple deaths are attributed to the event). I get all that, but the incoherent screeching from those same Trump Haters does not make it true.
It was a riot. It scared the rich and powerful, but at the root it was just another riot. A very small one (limited to only one building), without hardly any damage, but still just another riot.Fact --- Insurrection in Oregon -- please read these facts in regards to the Crimes committed in the Summer of Love" against the Federal Government of the United States. It seems so few realize these facts.
United States Department Of Justice
https://www.justice.gov/usao-or/pr/74-p … nstrations
"74 People Facing Federal Charges for Crimes Committed During Portland Demonstrations
Charges include assaulting federal officers, arson, failing to obey lawful orders, and damaging federal property
"U.S. Attorney Billy J. Williams announced today that 74 people are facing federal charges for crimes committed adjacent to or under the guise of peaceful demonstrations in Portland since at least May 29, 2020.
For more than 90 consecutive nights, Portland has been home to large demonstrations and protests against police use of force and anti-Black racism. On many nights, after peaceful demonstrations end, various public and private buildings have been the target of vandalism and destruction. Local, state, and federal law enforcement working to protect these buildings and ensure the safety of peaceful demonstrators have been subjected to threats and assaults from violent agitators while performing their duties.
“Violent agitators have hijacked any semblance of First Amendment protected activity, engaging in violent criminal acts and destruction of public safety,” said U.S. Attorney Williams. “The U.S. Attorney’s Office and our federal law enforcement partners are expeditiously working with local and state law enforcement to identify, arrest, and prosecute these individuals that are disrupting the rule of law in our communities and physically attacking our law enforcement officers and destroying property. Violent agitators not only delay real reform but make our community less safe by keeping law enforcement from responding to other critical calls for service.”
“While the FBI supports and safeguards Constitutionally-protected activity and civil rights, there is no permit for assault, arson or property damage and these are not victimless crimes,” said Renn Cannon, Special Agent in Charge of the FBI in Oregon. “Among the victims of violent crime are business owners, residents and individuals exercising their First Amendment rights through protests or other legitimate forms of expression.”
“The nightly violence has to stop,” said Russel Burger, U.S. Marshal for the District of Oregon. “It is drowning out the voices of the many who are calling for change and pulling police resources away from their primary mission of keeping this community safe. We must all come together to find a productive way to move forward.”
“As the nation’s primary source for fire investigative knowledge, ATF remains committed to investigating those responsible for committing arsons in our communities and holding them responsible for their illegal actions,” said ATF Special Agent in Charge Jonathan McPherson. “As a reminder, there is a mandatory minimum sentence of five years for arson. ATF takes these violent actions seriously and will work diligently to bring justice to the victims.”
“It is vitally important that all Americans have the ability to exercise their first amendment rights to freedom of speech,” said Acting Special Agent in Charge of Homeland Security Investigations Seattle Eben Roberts. “Unfortunately, much of what we’re seeing in Portland is the antithesis of that. Instead, tragic events are being used as excuses for individuals with ill intent disguising themselves as activists to commit violent crimes against their communities and law enforcement officers. Progress can only be made if community leaders, law enforcement, and the public come together in the name of social change, justice, and peace.”
Since May 26, 2020, federal law enforcement authorities have arrested 100 people for crimes committed during local demonstrations. Seventy-four face federal charges, including felonies, misdemeanors, and citation violations. Crimes include assaults on federal officers, some resulting in serious injuries; arson and attempted arson; damaging federal government property; failing to obey lawful orders; and unlawful use of a drone; among others.
Charged defendants include:
Edward Carubis, 24, is charged with assaulting a federal officer on July 1, 2020;
Rowan Olsen, 19, is charged (photos available) with creating a hazard on federal property, disorderly conduct, and failing to obey a lawful order on July 2, 2020;
Shant Singh Ahuja, 28, of Oceanside, California, is charged with destruction of federal property on July 4, 2020;
Gretchen Blank, 29, of Seattle, Washington, is charged (photos available) with assaulting a federal officer on July 5, 2020;
Andrew Faulkner, 24, is charged with assaulting a federal officer on July 5, 2020;
Christopher Fellini, 31, is charged (photos available) with assaulting a federal officer on July 5, 2020;
Theodore Matthee-O’Brien, 21, is charged with assaulting a federal officer on July 5, 2020;
Cody Porter, 28, is charged with assaulting a federal officer on July 5, 2020;
Taimane Teo, 24, of Eugene, Oregon, is charged with assaulting a federal officer on July 5, 2020;
Benjamin Wood-Pavich, 21, is charged with assaulting a federal officer on July 5, 2020;
Jacob Gaines, 23, a Texas resident, is charged (photos available) with assaulting a federal officer on July 11, 2020;
Lillith Grin, 22, is charged with assaulting a federal officer on July 12, 2020;
Benjamin Bolen, 36, is charged with assaulting a federal officer on July 13, 2020;
Kevin Weier, 36, is charged with attempted arson on July 13, 2020;
Wyatt Ash-Milby, 18, is charged with failing to obey a lawful order on July 21, 2020;
Jerusalem Callahan, 24, is charged with damaging government property on July 21, 2020;
Zachary Duffly, 45, is charged with creating a disturbance on July 21, 2020;
Caleb Ehlers, 23, is charged with failing to obey a lawful order on July 21, 2020;
Paul Furst, 22, is charged with failing to obey a lawful order on July 21, 2020;
Jennifer Kristiansen, 38, is charged with assaulting a federal officer on July 21, 2020;
Ella Miller, 26, is charged with failing to obey a lawful order on July 21, 2020;
Marie Sager, 27, is charged with failing to obey a lawful order on July 21, 2020;
Giovanni Bondurant, 19, is charged with assaulting a federal officer on July 22, 2020;
Bailey Dreibelbis, 22, is charged with failing to obey a lawful order on July 21, 2020;
Gabriel Huston, 22, is charged with assaulting a federal officer on July 22, 2020;
Joseph Lagalo, 37, is charged with failing to obey a lawful order on July 22, 2020;
Taylor Lemons, 32, is charged with assaulting a federal officer on July 22, 2020;
Joseph Ybarra, 21, is charged with arson on July 22, 2020;
David Hazan, 24, is charged with failing to obey a lawful order on July 23, 2020;
Nicholas Kloiber, 26, is charged with failing to obey a lawful order on July 23, 2020;
Cameron Knutson, 28, is charged with failing to obey a lawful order on July 23, 2020;
Carly Ballard, 34, is charged with assaulting a federal officer on July 24, 2020;
David Bouchard, 36, is charged with assaulting a federal officer on July 24, 2020;
Dakota Eastman, 30, is charged with failing to obey a lawful order on July 24, 2020;
Josslynn Kreutz, 28, is charged with failing to obey a lawful order on July 24, 2020;
Ezra Meyers, 18, is charged with failing to obey a lawful order on July 24, 2020;
Mark Rolycanov, 28, is charged with failing to obey a lawful order on July 24, 2020;
Pablo Avvocato, 26, is charged with assaulting a federal officer on July 25, 2020;
Douglas Dean, 34, is charged with assaulting a federal officer on July 25, 2020;
Rebecca Mota Gonzales, 37, is charged with assaulting a federal officer on July 25, 2020;
Thomas Johnson, 33, is charged with assaulting a federal officer on July 25, 2020;
Richard Lindstedt, 33, is charged with violating national defense airspace on July 25, 2020;
Nathan Onderdonk-Snow, 21, is charged with assaulting a federal officer on July 25, 2020;
Stephen O’Donnell, 65, is charged with assaulting a federal officer on July 25, 2020;
Joshua Webb, 22, is charged with assaulting a federal officer on July 25, 2020;
Jeffree Cary, 30, is charged with assaulting a federal officer on July 26, 2020;
John Tyler Gabriel, 22, is charged with assaulting a federal officer on July 26, 2020;
Noelle Mandolfo, 30, is charged with assaulting a federal officer on July 26, 2020;
Patrick Stafford, 35, is charged with assaulting a federal officer on July 26, 2020;
Travis Williams, 27, is charged with assaulting a federal officer on July 26, 2020;
Caleb Wills, 29, is charged with assaulting a federal officer on July 26, 2020;
Brodie Storey, 28, is charged with assaulting a federal officer on July 27, 2020;
Edward Schinzing, 32, is charged (photos available) with arson on July 28, 2020;
James Hickerson, 54, is charged with failing to obey a lawful order on July 28, 2020;
Ian Wolf, 26, is charged with failing to obey a lawful order and creating a hazard on federal property on July 28, 2020;
Sabastian Dubar, 23, is charged with assaulting a federal officer on July 29, 2020;
Jordan Johnson, 32, is charged with assaulting a federal officer on July 29, 2020;
Evan Kriechbaum, 31, is charged with assaulting a federal officer on July 29, 2020;
Christine Margaux, 28, is charged with assaulting a federal officer on July 29, 2020;
Gabriel Agard-Berryhill, 18, is charged (video available) with arson on July 30, 2020;
Isaiah Maza, 18, is charged (photos available) with assaulting a federal officer on July 31, 2020;
Dakotah Horton, 24, is charged (photos available) with assaulting a federal officer on August 17, 2020; and
Dakota Means, 20, is charged with assaulting a federal officer on August 24, 2020.
Eleven others have been issued citation violations. All defendants, unless noted, are presumed to be local residents.
Several of the charges being used to prosecute violent agitators carry significant maximum prison sentences. For example, felony assault of a federal officer with a dangerous weapon is punishable by up to 20 years in prison. Arson is punishable by up to 20 years in prison with a mandatory minimum sentence of five years.
It is important to note that while some federal charges require crimes be committed on federal property, others do not. Violent acts committed throughout the city of Portland under the guise of peaceful protest are being evaluated by local federal prosecutors for prosecution.
These cases are being investigated by the FBI; U.S. Marshals Service; Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives; U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement’s Homeland Security Investigations; and Federal Protective Service. They are being prosecuted by the U.S. Attorney’s Office for the District of Oregon.
Indictments, complaints, and informations are only accusations of a crime, and defendants are presumed innocent unless and until proven guilty.
To help identify actors who are actively instigating violence in the city of Portland, the FBI is accepting tips and digital media depicting violent encounters during demonstrations. If you have witnessed unlawful violent actions, we urge you to submit any information, photos, or videos that could be relevant to investigations at fbi.gov/PDViolence.
Specifically, the FBI is assisting partner agencies by asking for the public’s help in identifying individuals who participated in or may have been a witness to criminal activity at the following locations:
Near or inside the Multnomah County Justice Center in downtown Portland on the night of May 29, 2020 or into the morning of May 30, 2020. Details here: Justice Center
Near the Chase Bank branch located at 811 SW 6th Avenue, Portland, Oregon, shortly before 1 a.m. on May 30, 2020. Details here: Chase Bank
Tips can be submitted by calling 1-800-CALL-FBI (1-800-225-5324) or (503) 224-4181. They can also be submitted online by visiting: tips.fbi.gov."
https://www.justice.gov/usao-or/pr/74-p … nstrations
I think you might see that 74 were charged with serious Federal crimes against the Government. I have become tired of these facts being ignored.Sharlee: O.K. 74 people were charged in in these riots. Did you post this for my benefit or for Wilderness' or both? it looks like they are being charged just like the Jan..6 rioters were and still are being charged. Apparently Wilderness doesn't realize this as well or he wouldn't be implying that the Portland rioters are getting off the hook.
I posted it to show that the two riots were closely related, and both crimes against the government. So Wilderness in my view is correct, If you consider Jan 6th an insurrection, it would seem the crimes of the 2020 Portland rioters were also crimes against our Government and charged as crimes against the US government.
There are differences in how the rioter that were arrested were treated. Many of the Jan 6th rioters did not get bail and sat in jail for a lengthy time. Many were prosecuted and received different formats of punishment per the crime they committed.
In regard to the 2020 riots --- Most of the majority did receive bail, and many of the charges were dropped.
Almost Half of Federal Cases Against Portland Rioters Have Been Dismissed Many charged in connection with violence surrounding last year’s racial-justice protests have completed community service and won’t be tried. https://www.wsj.com/articles/almost-hal … 1618501979
I posted the information for the benefit of providing the facts.
And facts show the Jan 6th rioters were treated differently that the 2020 rioters. And this goes for the People that were charged with committing Federal crimes against the US Government.
You said this --- ""Wilderness: I call comparing the Portland rioters to an insurrection a false equivalence."
In a way, the two can't compare in regards to costs, and in regard to the very death toll. which is most often ignored. Many buildings were set on fire, many more were injured and killed during the "Summer of Love".
It was pure violence for over 90 days. So, not no it in no respect was the equivalent of the Jan 6th riot that last a matter of hours, and the Congress returned to work that very evening. And the only one killed was one of the rioters.
Violence is violence is it not? And we should never weigh one violent act against another, in my view.
I equally condemn both violent riots, one not more than the other.You have explained my point very well; that both were riots, and that if one was an "insurrection" so was the other.
Thank you.Sharlee and Wilderness. There is a difference between attacking a government building and trying to change the outcome of a presidential election. The only reason they didn't succeed in changing the outcome is because Trump called it off after four hours of chaos and threats to Pelosi and Pence's lives..
"insurrection, an organized and usually violent act of revolt or rebellion against an established government or governing authority of a nation-state or other political entity by a group of its citizens or subjects; also, any act of engaging in such a revolt. An insurrection may facilitate or bring about a revolution, which is a radical change in the form of government or political system of a state, and it may be initiated or provoked by an act of sedition, which is an incitement to revolt or rebellion."
https://www.britannica.com/topic/insurrection-politics"The only reason they didn't succeed in changing the outcome is because Trump called it off after four hours of chaos and threats to Pelosi and Pence's lives.."
Utter hogwash. Had Trump said nothing, and the riot continued (unlikely in the extreme) until the entire building was in ashes and everyone in it dead, Biden would still be President. You know this to be true, and pretending otherwise in order to grossly exaggerate the terminology is beneath you.
"insurrection, an organized and usually violent act of revolt or rebellion against an established government..."
You mean like attacking federal buildings, federal employees and federal law enforcement. Which is what happened in Portland...but somehow was not an insurrection. That only happened when a few people wanted an honest count of votes. Funny, isn't it, when that little fact is ignored. Of course it has to be in order to claim an insurrection or an attempt to overthrow the government; where it not ignored we would have to claim every recount demanded in our history was an insurrection.I will just agree to disagree. I saw the two riots very much attacks on federal Government installations.
You do realize some had guns on their person at the Capitol. Not one was fired... If they intended to truely over through the Capitol, they could have totally taken over the building. They could have killed law enforcement, but they did not. I feel it was a protest that got well out of hand, nothing more.
To repeat --- Violence is violence is it not? And we should never weigh one violent act against another, in my view.
You need to stop hating this one man. it is not healthy."You need to stop hating this one man. it is not healthy."
I have told others that. And I have watched as they turned against everyone not on their bandwagon. Friends, family, neighbors; it doesn't matter. And their life has inevitably gone far downhill because of that all encompassing hatred that they refuse to deal with, choosing instead to feed it and grow it until it literally takes over their lives.It seems to be like an illness, a blinding illness. I would think it's almost like an addiction, and it will not go away until Trump dies.
This kind of obsession blinds them from realizing what is going on around them. It's downright baffling.Truthfully, I expect that obsession to be transferred to his wife and children when Trump dies.
"To repeat --- Violence is violence is it not? And we should never weigh one violent act against another, in my view."
Isn't that precisely what Wilderness did. He is comparing the Jan. 6 riot to Portland riot. Isn't that one violent act against another?
"You need to stop hating this one man. it is not healthy."
I will stop hating Trump when you stop hating Biden."Isn't that precisely what Wilderness did. He is comparing the Jan. 6 riot to Portland riot. Isn't that one violent act against another?"
I think along the way you may have misunderstood that yes Wilderness was, yes, making that very point ---- Both incidences were riots, one not much different than the other. He was pointing out they were both riots that got out of control, both were committed on Federal property, and both had many persons arrested and charged with federal crimes...
They differed only in the amounts of damage and harm to enforcement, and death toll (when speaking about the Summer of Love).
Yes, both were violent.
I do not hate Biden in any respect. I think you are looking at this forum differently, and that is more than acceptable. These types of forums are open to discussing politics. So, I think I can say we both do that. The difference I am following very current events, they just interest me more than past politics. I tend to enjoy keeping up with the current president and his administration. I post threads that provide current, what is being talked about. I usually take hints of what people are interested in from other social media outlets. I will say those that who post here are very much diverse in what they want to delve into.
I can see you do not join in on my threads in regard to Biden, and what he is up to. That's Ok, we all vary in our interests. I never post anything about Biden and I do not offer some form of the source to back up what I am posting. If I add my view, I stipulate that I am sharing my view.
Do you feel it unfair to post threads on what our president is doing, and sometimes what he is not doing?
I don't hate Biden, he is more or less a blip in the whole of it. presidents come and they go. I don't think I have ever just hated a president just because I could.
The country has had many instances of rioting over its existence, could anyone really say that those riots are on par with the rightwing rabble that attacked the Capitol building having a disntict goal of changing an election outcome?
Did they stop Congress from doing its job? Could have they, they were in, they had the building, and they left of their own accord...
I mean many were known to have guns, did they use them? No. Why did they leave if they wanted to overthrow the Government? Why did they just not tear the place apart looking for Congressmen? Why did they not take hostages, they could have? If it's true as many thinks, and it was all planned, why did they not do all I mentioned?It has to be more than a coincidence that this mob gathered for a deluxe tour on the day that those electors were to be counted. The counting of electors that were to include false electors from battleground states as the idea fomented by Trump and the Republican Party. With Trump trying to persuade the Vice President to go beyond his Constitutionally designated task as the individual to tally the votes. Was it a coincidence that they picked a day that all members of congress would be in session for the process?
Who is to say what would have happened if the legislators were more readily available and did not have to hide due to security risk? The threats were there, why am I to believe after breaking and entering the Capitol building with force that they would have restrained themselves? Yes, being the ragtag mob they were, not finding their prey available, they stepped away, but not before vandalizing property, soiling the halls with their human wastes and all other sorts of mayhem.
I am not one to believe in endless coincidences in place of a pattern that ties them together.
Neither Portland Or. or Seattle Wa. are state capitals. It is the spin of the Rightwinger that attempts to find an equivalence in attacking the very heart of American governance with its VIPs inside against the attack on otherwise vacant federal buildings on the other side of the country in cities that are at best, county seats.It was very simple. Trump told them to stop and go home. They didn't stop on their own accord. What do you think they were going to do if they found Pelosi and Pence? Do you think they were going to make nice to them?
They built a GD gallows for Pence. Do you think they were chanting Hang Mike Pence because it sounded nice? You have no idea what they were going to do and what they were capable of. Do you think they carried weapons just to play soldier. They had a complete stash of ammunition in standby off site.Trump told them to march peacefully and talk to their legislators. In response they became violent and tried to murder Pence, Pelosi and others.
So Trump told them to peacefully leave the building and in response they quietly filed out.
I trust you see the dichotomy here? From the same people responding to the same orders from the same man, no less, but with your imagination providing completely different responses.
"You have no idea what they were going to do and what they were capable of."
And you do? You find that the idiot swinging from the ornaments was ready and able to murder? You find that, like all effective armies, they left their ammunition miles away so that they could not use it? Not to mention, ammunition for what? What weapons did they enter the building with in order to overthrow the government of the United States? A pistol they left outside, on the grounds? A fire extinguisher also left outside?
As "insurrectionists" the people in that riot had to be the most idiotic, ignorant, stupid and unprepared "army" in the history of the world.
Looks like a real killer, right? Ready to murder the VP and take over the country on the spot, right?If they did nothing wrong why have at least 955 people been arrested and charged?
https://www.insider.com/all-the-us-capi … mes-2021-1
https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va … ants-guns/
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/oath-keepe … 022-10-12/
https://apnews.com/article/prisons-ariz … a453c89153We have gone over this time and time again. I am certainly as aware as you about the many hundred arrested and actually charged with crimes 1,000 people have been arrested in connection with the protests in Portland; Over 2,000 protesters were arrested from BLM protest over the summer of love. With many billions of dollars of damage done in Portland.
Please Quote where I said the rioters at the Jan 6th riot did nothing wrong. I said the opposite from the very day it happened, and in a few comments back here, I shared I did not feel any violence is executable. It is you that has clearly felt the Portland riots did not compare to Jan 6th protest.
Were we not discussing the similarities between the Oregon riots and Jan 6th riot? Why bring in the number arrested due to the Jan riot? We have discussed that. I think most of America realizes the large number that was arrested.
I will await you to offer a quote where I felt -- there was nothing wrong with what occured on Jan6th at the Capitol.I assume you didn't comment on the other links because you thought they were about 955 people because I didn't title them. Below are the other links with titles. Please read those as well as they support my comments on what happened on Jan. 6
At least 955 people have been charged in the Capitol insurrection so far. This searchable table shows them all
https://www.insider.com/all-the-us-capi … mes-2021-1
Evidence of firearms in Jan. 6 crowd grows as arrests and trials mount
https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va … dants-guns
Oath Keeper testifies that large weapons cache was prepared in Virginia ahead of Jan. 6 riot
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/oath-keepe … 022-10-12/
Jan. 6 rioter who carried spear, wore horns, draws 41 months
https://apnews.com/article/prisons-ariz … a453c89153I continue to find it odd to repeatedly hear that there were weapons (guns) at the Capitol riot.
Yet when I read things like your links, there were not. Yes, there were weapons a mile or more away, (14th and independence), or in the next state, and I'm sure there were guns scattered all over the city, but still none at the riot itself.
Is that once more an indication of how well trained these "insurrectionists" were, to leave their guns miles away where they could not be used? Or were they just too stupid to carry them on their attempt to overthrow the government? And why the big announcements about guns being available miles away, especially when the city is undoubtedly full of guns carried by both criminals and law abiding citizens?First --- I did comment on the comment you mentioned here. You may have missed it. Here is the link to that very comment.
https://hubpages.com/politics/forum/356 … ost4272726
Again, As I said we have discussed all of what you offered. In fact, I shared two of the very links you posted way back... This link offers all names and what they were charged with.
I was sharing the fact none of the rioters used their guns, although some had guns on their person. IT also came out in the media that some stashed weapons in their rooms. Although I have never been able to confirm those reports. Not sure if they planned an insurrection why they would not have made sure to bring all weapons they might have had in their rooms.
in my view, the protest just turned into a riot due to a handful of people such as the Oath keepers that came to cause trouble. I might add, they if they had a plan, it certainly was a weak plan.Sharlee: Plans are plans. What is a weak plan? The reason they didn't use their plan is because Trump called it off after four hours. This is their plan.
"The Justice Department alleges the Oath Keepers amassed the stockpile to aid them in an armed rebellion against the government, targeting the peaceful transfer of power from then-President Donald Trump to President-elect Joe Biden. Their plan, prosecutors say, was to store the weapons in Virginia and transfer them across state lines into D.C. using a "Quick Reaction Force," or QRF. "
You said this about the guy with the horns. "Looks like a real killer, right? Ready to murder the VP and take over the country on the spot, right?"
This is what he is really about:
"Chansley, who pleaded guilty to a felony charge of obstructing an official proceeding, was among the first rioters to enter the building. He has acknowledged using a bullhorn to rile up the mob, offering thanks in a prayer while in the Senate for having the chance to get rid of traitors and scratching out a threatening note to Vice President Mike Pence saying, “It’s Only A Matter of Time. Justice Is Coming!”
You talked about the guy in the tree and implied he was harmless. Here is what he was about.
The chatter included reports of a man with an AR-15 in a tree on Constitution Avenue who was accompanied by two men with pistols on their hips. Another officer radioed, “I’ve got three men walking down the street in fatigues carrying AR-15s, copy, at 14th and Independence.”
The recordings aired during the June 28 hearing in which former White House aide Cassidy Hutchinson testified that Trump reportedly “was angry that we weren’t letting people through the [metal detectors] with weapons.”
You and Wilderness have a way of minimizing what happened on Jan. 6 and ridiculed my comments, but I rest my case. Have a great ThanksgivingYes,plan is a plan, not sure what was planned. It was clear some met the day before, but the hearing showed that that was a meet-and-greet meeting.
I have not read any firsthand account that would show proof of ---
""The Justice Department alleges the Oath Keepers amassed the stockpile to aid them in an armed rebellion against the government, targeting the peaceful transfer of power from then-President Donald Trump to President-elect Joe Biden. Their plan, prosecutors say, was to store the weapons in Virginia and transfer them across state lines into D.C. using a "Quick Reaction Force," or QRF. "
Perhaps you could offer a link to that information. I do know a few had a gun left behind in their rooms.
"You said this about the guy with the horns. "Looks like a real killer, right? Ready to murder the VP and take over the country on the spot, right?""
I never said that, I have never commented on this man, even in the past. I think you have confused me with another user.
I can agree we have different views of what happened on Jan 6th. I do see the riot as a protest that got out of hand due to some Yahoo's (the Oath Keeper) that came to incite a riot.
They succeeded, but they did not succeed or even remotely imitate an insurrection. They have been arrested many already doing time for their crimes. Let me remind you they were convicted of crimes they were indicted on. I believe a few were accused of crimes against the Government. So, they got the few that seemed to have the plan to commit conspiracy.
Seditious conspiracy is a Civil War-era law that makes it illegal to conspire to “overthrow, put down or to destroy by force” the U.S. government or “to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States.
I offered you a link with information on the Portland riots, and the massive rioters dressed and charged with Federal crimes against the government. You ignored that post. Possibly due to not feeling the same about those riots as you feel about Jan 6th.
Again, I feel they were very much equal. Protester, protesting, getting violent and destructive, and becoming violent with law enforcement. I look at these types of people as criminals that fought laws endorsement and were charged with Federal crimes against our government. It would appear you feel one protest was just worse in your view. That's your right.
I have not ridiculed your comments in no respect. I don't feel this conversation has even become personal. We are having a conversation, do you feel because I don't agree with you that is a form of ridicule? I feel, our back and forth has been civil, I have tried to back up my thoughts and how I have come about my views.
Please give an example of what I said that you find ridiculous. If I have insulted you, I certainly need to know what was said to make you feel this way.
I hope you have a wonderful Thanksgiving, we all have much to be thankful for. Starting with living on such a beautiful planet.Sharlee: I'm sorry I did have you confused with wilderness about the guy in the tree and the picture with the guy with the horns. It's probably because you commented at the bottom of Wilderness' picture of that guy.
Sharlee and Wilderness have a way of looking at known facts and not imagining any more than that. You, on the other hand, appear to know what plans were made and are very willing to turn allegations into facts. You don't need facts; you just need imagination to draw conclusions from.
WILDERNESS WROTE:
Trump told them to march peacefully and talk to their legislators. In response they became violent and tried to murder Pence, Pelosi and others.
So Trump told them to peacefully leave the building and in response they quietly filed out.
I trust you see the dichotomy here? From the same people responding to the same orders from the same man, no less, but with your imagination providing completely different responses.
"You have no idea what they were going to do and what they were capable of."
And you do? You find that the idiot swinging from the ornaments was ready and able to murder? You find that, like all effective armies, they left their ammunition miles away so that they could not use it? Not to mention, ammunition for what? What weapons did they enter the building with in order to overthrow the government of the United States? A pistol they left outside, on the grounds? A fire extinguisher also left outside?
As "insurrectionists" the people in that riot had to be the most idiotic, ignorant, stupid and unprepared "army" in the history of the world.
{Guy with horns and spear goes here}
https://img.theepochtimes.com/assets/up … 00x420.jpg
Looks like a real killer, right? Ready to murder the VP and take over the country on the spot, right?
SHARLEE WROTE:
Thank you...So well put.I did agree. I feel this man looked like a protester that came dressed to be noticed. Here are the facts.
CHANSLEY, Jacob Anthony (aka Jacob Angeli)
Case Number:
1:21-cr-3
Charge(s):
Civil Disorder; Obsrtuction of an Official Proceeding; Entering and Remaining in a Restricted Building; Disorderly and Disruptive Conduct in a Restricted Building; Violent Entry and Disorderly Conduct in a Capitol Building; Parading, Demonstrating, or Picketing in a Capitol Building
Location of Arrest:
ARIZONA, Phoenix
Case Status:
Arrested 1/9/21. Indicted 1/11/21. Arraigned 1/29/21 and pleaded not guilty to all counts.
Plea agreement entered 9/3.
Sentenced 11/17 to 41 months in prison followed by 36 months supervised release, must pay $2,000 restitution.
DOJ -- https://www.justice.gov/usao-dc/defenda … ob-anthony
He was not charged with assault...So I don't think he can be called
a killer. This is why I agreed with Wildrnesses sentiment.
He just did not become violent in regards to attacking anyone. He certainly could have in such free for all, but he did not.
Can we agree that we should look at the facts, and maybe not believe any and all media reports on the Jan 6th riot?
As "insurrectionists" the people in that riot had to be the most idiotic, ignorant, stupid and unprepared "army" in the history of the world.
They were. They are. As voters too.
Did you not complain, and even site that the Jan 6th comments when they said Trump would not call off his supporters? You actually did. Now you claim he called them off... He was being asked throughout the day to call them off, and the committee said he just would not...
I pointed out to you --- he did make several attempts to tell them to leave, and respect law enforcement. I offered his quotes, the actual times he tweeted.
They certainly could have sought out Pelosi and Pence if they were determined to find them. They were in, they has guns and other weapons. The fact is they did not. Did this riot even resemble any type of a plan to kill anyone?
It is very factual that they constructed three pieces of wood that appeared to be gallows. Did they attempt to hang anyone? NO
No, I do not know what they were going to do. I know they did not use those guns, hold hostages, or even look pursue finding anyone to hang. You need to look factually at what they did, not what you feel they were capable of.
"Do you think they carried weapons just to play soldier."
Did they use their guns? No
" They had a complete stash of ammunition in standby off site."
So, what good would those weapons do sitting in a hotel room? You are adding your own views to what could have been done, not what actually occurred. Logically, in my view,
this bunch did not have any true plan nor were they intending to do harm to any human being, because they certainly could have. The protest got out of hand, and a riot occurred my view. It's actually a miracle one of these yahoos did not flip out and start shooting. But they just did not.
The media has caused some to buy into just what you seem to believe about that riot. My gosh, step back and look at the facts, what went down... All of it was inexcusable, and the ring leaders of the protest seem to have been found and punished.
I did not realize anyone (beyond a tiny handful from the front lines of the Portland riots) were prosecuted or charged.
But I did not imply that anyone was getting off the hook: my comments were very plainly that the Portland riots and the Capital riot were very similar. YOU were the one claiming they are not.
It's O.K., Marjorie Taylor Green says she is sure Trump will pardon all Jan. 6 rioters when he becomes president.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics … 40cd2d5f12It's O.K., Marjorie Taylor Green says she is sure Trump will pardon all Jan. 6 rioters when he becomes president.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics … 40cd2d5f12
The Two Trailer Trash Sisters Competing for Attention
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics … 73731e5e36
The title of this forum is Trailer Trash.. I can take it in any direction I want. Is it O.K. with you that Trump talked about he likes to grab women by their pu**ies? And putting the make on one of the stars of Access Hollywood while still being married?
By the way I can't comment on your porn hub video, because it is no longer available, but what are you doing on porn hub anyway? I think that speaks volumes of your desperation to nail Hunter Biden;The willingness of some on the left to bow to the ideology of elitists is astounding, Like willing and submissive servants, they grovel for acceptance.
The name of a real person, Tara Reade. She was victimized by your elitist, Joe Biden, who defines the phrase, "trailer park trash."
But, of course, you cannot understand this, so entrenched are your beliefs.
~ white trash bag ~ black trash bag:
these bags are both used for trash.
"Trailer trash" are people who could never afford a real house, but these days, its becoming harder and harder through no fault of low, middle or even some high class people to afford a home or apt..
... whatever the definition of low, middle or high-class is.
~ shall we define these terms?
Shall we?Many understand MTG very well. Only the no-class would insult her.
Then I guess you understand her conspiracy theories.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/29/us/p … icans.html
" why one feels it necessary to use offensive words to communicate"? This is something I'd like to ask Trump.
"This thread was not about Trump. You quickly turned it into all about Trump. You do this frequently. You should ask yourself why?"
Probably because it is disingenuous to rail for paragraphs ad nauseum about charges against a private citizen in the other party when you turn a blind eye to multiple charges against a former president in your own party.Thank you Kathleen.. To Sharlee and those of you who don't understand why I started this forum, this is from the Guardian which is no BS journalism that I trust.
The country is seeing a dizzying number of assaults on democracy, from draconian abortion bans to a record number of book bans. Politicians who spread lies and sought to delegitimize the 2020 election are pursuing offices that will put them in control of the country’s election machinery.(In my opinion trailer trash) Meanwhile, the supreme court is enforcing its own agenda on abortion, guns and environmental protections – often in opposition to public opinion.Your Guardian blurb sounds like an opinion piece, not reporting. It looks like you are giving it authority simply because it was in The Guardian.
That's pretty shaky ground to stand on. (or dig into) Surely you don't think that because someone else agrees with your opinion, (or you with theirs?), it validates the opinion?
Even my shovel won't help now. You need one of Musk's boring machines.
GAGA: Is there anything in that opinion piece that is not true and can be disproved today?
I only spoke to your blurb. I didn't find the article you took it from, but I didn't look too hard. The point is it was an opinion piece—not factual reporting under the authority you seem to grant the Guardian.
I'm not arguing whether the source is factual, I am arguing that you are offering an opinion piece as proof of your point—because it was in the Guardian.
Reading the entire piece wouldn't change my point.
GAGA: Nice try, but you didn't answer my question. If what is stated in that opinion piece is found to be factual, based on current news, then that is enough to grant it authority in my book.
I know you said reading the entire piece wouldn't change your mind, but here is the article I took it from. It is at the end of the article and was used as a promotion piece to promote the Guardian, but they way is was stated makes me agree with it in todays political climate in this country.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 … -january-6GA: Nice try, but you didn't answer my question. If what is stated in that opinion piece is found to be factual, based on current news, then that is enough to grant it authority in my book.
.Fact: Politicians who spread lies and sought to delegitimize the 2020 election are pursuing offices that will put them in control of the country’s election machinery.
Fact: Meanwhile, the supreme court is enforcing its own agenda on abortion, guns and environmental protections – often in opposition to public opinion.
I know you said reading the entire piece wouldn't change your mind, but here is the article I took it from. It is at the end of the article and was used as a promotion piece to promote the Guardian, but they way is was stated makes me agree with it in todays political climate in this country
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 … -january-6If it is a fact that the "supreme court is enforcing its own agenda on abortion, guns and environmental protections – often in opposition to public opinion." - then I'm sure you can prove what that agenda exists that what it is. I ask earlier what the agenda was, but you haven't answered yet.
Keep in mind that because you, or anyone else, disagrees with the considered legal opinion of the court does not mean the members have an agenda to follow (outside of their appointed task of interpreting the Constitution). What do you have to offer in the way of proof of that agenda?I read your link. It supported my thought that the blurb you quoted is part of an opinion, not a reporting of facts. However, it wasn't the linked article that was an opinion, it was, as you now say, a promotional blurb by the Guardian soliciting subscriptions.
Your 'facts' aren't facts, they are opinions. I don't agree that the abortion issue is an assault on democracy, I think it is a promotion of democracy. Now, it won't be the courts deciding the issue, it will be the voters. Democracy in action. You may disagree, but that is the very definition of an "opinion."
The court agenda 'fact' is the same thing. I see the court's action as a constitutional determination, a legal interpretation, not an "agenda." Once again, you may disagree, but that would be your opinion, not fact.
I don't condemn the Guardian as Left-wing trash, but their wording in that 'promotional' blurb certainly shows their bias. Your parenthesized addition of "(In my opinion, Trailer Trash)" fooled me. I thought was part of the blurb, but apparently, it was your own insertion into the Guardian's quotes.
The 'fact' about the campaigning politicians is true, but even that agreement is only my opinion. Which means I am agreeing with their opinion.
I see that the 'court's agenda' 'fact' has been covered in the same manner as I would have responded, so there is no need to restate the reasons I see the Guardian's claim of 'an agenda' as an opinion.
In the end, I was right, reading the article didn't affect my point because it wasn't what my point was about. Your use of an opinion as validation for an opinion was the point.
You seem to agree with my point with your closing thought that ". . . way is was stated makes me agree with it in todays political climate in this country." That's stating an opinion Mike.
Stop digging. The sky probably looks like a pinpoint of light by now.
GA".Fact: Politicians who spread lies and sought to delegitimize the 2020 election is pursuing offices that will put them in control of the country’s election machinery."
They spread their views, which they have the right to do. Many American, and yes some, politicians do have the view there were problems that occurred with the 2020 election. And it is the people that will choose who they elect to represent them. Majority wins. So, yes you might not like what a politician represents, but in America, the majority voice is lastly heard. Do you believe people have the right to form their own opinions? Do you believe the majority's voice should be heard? Views are not always supported by pure fact but are formed by a variety of thoughts.
"Fact: Meanwhile, the supreme court is enforcing its own agenda on abortion, guns and environmental protections – often in opposition to public opinion."
The SC put abortion in the hands of individual states. Which ultimately puts the choice in the hands of the people. Once again it comes to the majority being heard in any given state. Not all states need to abide by one another. If lawmakers do not respect the majority of the people, the people have the right to vote their representatives out of office. The SC did not dictate to anyone in regard to abortion. They did not ban it, they did not pass laws to protect it. They left the decision to the people.
In regard to the environment -- The Supreme Court found that the EPA, as an administrative agency, doesn’t have the legal authority to make its own rules. That’s the responsibility of Congress This is constitutional, as is our right to lean on our second amendment to be armed to protect
one's self. With out-of-control crime, many citizens feel it very necessary to carry a gun to protect themself and their families. We have this right.
I have a voice, and I choose to have my rights protected by my Supreme Court.I think he meant to say "Fact: Meanwhile, the supreme court is enforcing its own agenda on abortion, guns and environmental protections – often in opposition to my opinion."
His opinion is that the government should mandate what we can do when, and only when, it fits with his opinion.Dr. Mark,
It is clear to me too that he finds all is well when one agrees with him. And it more than appears that many on the left are hoping to transition into a government t that makes all decisions in regard to what we can do and say.
This is a dangerous time, a real crossroad. We need to have faith that it is a small minority that wants the government to rule over our lives.faith?
... with such an uneducated public?
we must ... and you must ... keep educating.
Thank you for your persistence. You are a better man than I am. My impulse is to give up.
For instance, I really appreciated this comment from elsewhere:
"Politically speaking I feel this administration and those that support it are quickly trying to transform America into something that is unrecognizable. A country that most certainly has been so good to all of us. Instead of moving forward with freedom, and democracy, they seem bent on a tweaked form of socialism. Democracy plus socialism is their end product. A product that will destroy America and all that our current democracy offers."
Sharlee01We will keep the faith. One thing I feel is true --- The majority of Americans are well aware of what America has offered up to date --- and that is a form of freedom that separates us from a Government that dictates. Yes, that simple word dictates should be enough to wake up Americans to what we have held precious. The right to have no Government dictating what rights will stand or not stand. We are born with a form of freedom, and I think most appreciate freedom and have noted as of late, it is threatened by a few.
I have faith in Americans, and that they are educated in freedom, and won't give it up.No, I am very pessimistic.
I used to have faith and still want to have faith, but the faith crumbles when I still hear hatred for Trump and now for DeSantis everywhere I go. The youth think it is cool and hip to hate Conservatism. The Boomers think they are in a special club when discussing politics and come from a place of knee-jerk conformism.
Herd-think = No-think.
Going out on a limb here, but I assume you agree with the Guardian. This brings up two questions:
1. Just what is this "agenda" that the SCOTUS is operating within?
2. Given the final few words, are you of the "The constitution says whatever is expedient given the modern world" genre? In other words, does "public opinion" (as defined by whoever wants it to match their own) trump the words of the Constitution, or is it set, unchangeable except within the framework of the document?Wilderness: You had to use the word Trump I don't believe the 2nd amendment should be interpreted by originalist or we would be arguing over muskets. It is one of the most poorly written documents because it does not apply to modern times and circumstances..
I think having the SCOTUS overturn Roe V Wade was a mistake Trump made sure it would be overturned by stacking the courts with people who have that agenda.I would very much disagree that the Constitution is changeable at will because "things are different now". Excuses such as yours, arguing over muskets don't hold water - the framers gave no limits at all; cannons, mortars, exploding shot, all were available to the man in the street.
But you didn't say what their "agenda" is. Simply to overturn RvW? Or something else? If just the one thing, where will they go now? Do they have a new, different "agenda"?I am no proponent of speculating what long-dead politicians would do if they were here now. There’s too much room for error, and no way of definitively proving any particular hypothesis. However, I believe there is ample historical evidence to support the assertion that those who drafted and ratified our Constitution considered it essential that the American people have the final say on its meaning. If the court gets it wrong, we have a civic duty to get it right, by pushing our elected lawmakers to update the Constitution in a way that promotes democracy and reflects our current values. That's what amendments are for. Not change at will but change through a deliberative process informed by the current environment.
You are absolutely right, IMO. One can spend a lifetime researching the subject of what the writers meant, and usually come pretty close, but there is always room for error, particularly as there were differences in opinion even then.
You are also right in that we have an avenue to change our Constitution. The problem, IMO, is when the meaning of the words is twisted into what it was not because times have changed. That our culture, mores and sometimes even the base concepts we live by have changed is indisputable but that does not mean our most basic law must change with it...and without benefit of following the law on how to do it.
I will not be surprised if we lose the elections to Democrat ideologies and philosophies which percolate and are then poured into the minds of so many EMPTY CUPS.
If this were to become a fact. There is little one can do. If a majority has adopted the ideas of the Democrats, we will head down a path you or I would find objectable, and offensive to our values.
There is not much one could do in this case. I will say it would find it much easier to spend more time out of America. I live in Puerto Vallarta for about four months out of the year, and I find it harder and harder to leave at the end of winter. The US has become a country that I don't recognize, and don't really enjoy. This is my sad truth.
Yeah her first mistake was thinking that anyone on the left has anything that even resembles a sense of humor!
I just listened to Greene's full statement, not just the middle of a statement that media-fed up to those that like to hear a bit of a statement, not the full statement, the full context. I must agree, Biden's words can not be trusted to always be true. The White House almost daily needs to walk back his words. So, I do agree with her view in regard to Biden much of the time is blowing hot air". It is very much factual the WH needs to clean up his words frequintly.
https://twitter.com/patriottakes/status … 2713176064Sharlee: MTG's words have to be cleaned up frequently. Biden's words have to be cleaned up frequently. Therefore, Biden and MTG are in the same category according to you.
The difference is she is coming from a place where she knows not what she is saying. If she lived in Calif, she would know wind generating farms are located in places like the Banning Pass where the wind blows 24/7 and they store the power on the grid.
The other problems is her audience buys into her false assertions. These people are the ones who are going to vote and make decisions on what she is saying, which is false information. But that is her job to make Biden look bad, the same as you. Therefore, you agree with her.I was unaware that there is a significant amount of energy storage on the American grid. Some, to be sure, such as pumped hydro, but I didn't think it amounted to much at all.
Are you aware of large scale energy storage on our grid somewhere? Something beyond a Tesla battery alongside a garage somewhere?Found this:
The Energy Information Administration (EIA) reports the United States had a 4.5GW total capacity of energy storage by the end of 2021. EIA forecasts that by the end of 2023, energy storage deployment across the nation will have more than doubled from current levels to about 10GW.
https://css.umich.edu/publications/fact … -factsheetThanks. The link, though, doesn't make a lot of sense. It says that energy storage is measured in GWhours, then lists it in GW.
But if "In 2020, the rated power of U.S. EES was 24 GW compared to 1,148 GW of total installed generation" actually means that we have 24 GWH of storage capacity compared to a production of 1148 GW, then our total storage would run out in just 2 minutes if all production stopped.
Assuming that storage capacity is the same percentage of production country wide (it isn't), it is so small as to be worthless at this point. Certainly we aren't storing the energy of a wind farm for windless day in any appreciable amount.I see where you're coming from and it's an area that I don't have much depth of knowledge only in reading a little here and there. I understand that installations of energy storage systems will experience rapid growth this decade, this is something that is obviously going to take time to ramp up to usefulness. It definitely won't happen overnight, just as we will not be switching over to renewable energy without a lengthy transition. Little by little, all in time.
I agree fully that it will happen. I just think we have barely dipped a toe into the waters here, and one of the early things that must change is finding a method of energy storage. The two biggest sources, wind and solar, both have down time in them while our needs continue or even grow during those times.
"The difference is she is coming from a place where she knows not what she is saying. If she lived in Calif, she would know wind generating farms are located in places like the Banning Pass where the wind blows 24/7 and they store the power on the grid. "
Here are a few articles to acquaint you with California grid problems. It is no secret that they have major problems providing energy to citizens
California's latest power grid problems are just the beginning
https://www.politico.com/news/2022/09/2 … y-00058466
https://calmatters.org/newsletters/what … blackouts/
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles … -emergency
So, it would seem wind is not performing as it should to power California.
"But that is her job to make Biden look bad, the same as you. Therefore, you agree with her."
You do not either read my comments or you do not comprehend well Here was my comment in regard to your OP.
"So do these women actually live in trailers? Am I missing something? I don't think you meant to insult Americans that live in Trailers.
I agreed I find them poor representatives, and feel very dismayed about what our Congress has become due to both sides lowering the bar. However, the far Right and far Left representatives I don't care for were sent to Washington by the voters."
As you see I did not support her statements, but I do support her right to make them. And it takes little effort to make Biden look bad. His polls alone speak for his job performance. My gosh, in my view, not sure how anyone could support such a poor job performance.I see California's grid problems as being primarily due to drought and heat. Some may believe it is due to climate change or not. Regardless, the fact of the matter is they have unprecedented demand for water and electricity. The U.S. Energy Information Administration had forecast that California could lose half its normal hydroelectric generation this summer due to drought.
The state also uses natural gas to power its grid. Though during this heat wave, several plants, including gas-fired ones, partially broke down, The Associated Press reported.
Multiple generators also have been "forced out of service due to the extreme heat"
Fighting mother nature is a tough battle. It makes you wonder certain areas of the country will become uninhabitable at a certain point.
I do believe that Texas is the state that has the most power outages though.
An interesting look at the top 10 states with the worst infrastructure:
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/07/15/these-a … cture.html
https://abcnews.go.com/US/california-bl … d=89460998NIMBY seems to be one of the bigger problems in California's problems. They are the biggest electricity importers in the country, bringing in over twice as much as any other state.
On the comical side is that California is hell on using only green energy, but won't build the plants to produce it. So they import from other states for their needs...including at least 3 coal fired plants in neighboring states.
https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=38912Kind of ironic about California, isn't it? But I'm not surprised since their whole state seems to be in turmoil right now. I read somewhere that they were losing population in droves. If that is true, then maybe their energy needs will slow down.
ab: As Forrest Gump once said, "Stupid is as stupid does."
She is funny, she has personality and sourpuss Dems can't or choose not to, laugh along.
I watched the video, and she was in no sense "fuming" in fact she appeared pleasant and happy to be sharing her view. I totally agree Biden much of the time is not being truthful, is confused, and just not in complete control over what he says --- Grene chose to use a euphemism to get her point across.
As I think at times we all do --- "Biden: MAGA is the ‘most extreme political organization’ in recent U.S. history"
Imagine calling American citizens extreme due to their belief and right to believe in a concept
MAGA Make America Great Again.Sharlee: Your comment is your opinion. Imagine calling American citizens elite racists due to their beliefs and right to believe in a concept.
America Has Always Been Great until Trump came along.Not sure what you mean. I pointed out freedom of speech and gave a sad example of a statement Biden said.
My comment was my opinion. It does not make my words factual but offers my view.
You used the label trailer trash and further envelope your living into elite trailer trash. That is your view, and you used your right to free speech.
What it seems you just can't comprehend we all have that very same right.
You may respect your views, and even feel you have a right to add derogative labels.
Other users have the right to their beliefs, and the right to share them.
Wow shocking huh?
Mr. Trump’s CDC Changed Covid Reports Under Political Pressure, Panel Finds...
"The Trump administration regularly interfered with the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s (CDC) process for developing and issuing guidance about the coronavirus, changed scientific reports and undermined top public health officials, a congressional panel said Monday. The House select subcommittee on the coronavirus crisis said interviews, emails and other documents obtained by the panel showed how political appointees in the Trump administration took control of CDC’s public communications and overruled scientists in an effort to bend the agency to Trump’s rosy outlook on the pandemic."
Bloomberg: Trump Aides Interfered With CDC Over Covid for Political Gain, House Says.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles … anel-findsThere's some deflecting going on alright, but I perfectly understand why you feel you must participate in it.
Later.I think this is a stretch, a non-story.
I would hope that a Civil War memorial would be just that; a place to reflect on the cost, the loss...of a horrific war that divided this Country...and families!
I wasn't there present when she visited, I didn't here her words from start to finish.
When she realized her error, she sought to correct it. But, that matters not...when the hateful, search for any little thing, to do harm.Campaigning with a dumpster fire.
https://youtu.be/29g6Hl1kWXo
So, speaking of human garbage...
Arizona GOP Candidate Arrested For Allegedly Masturbating In Truck Near Preschool
In a Facebook post from May, Kaufman said he wanted “our children protected [from] the progressive left.”...
The report says the incident began when an officer with the Maricopa County Community Colleges Police approached Kaufman’s parked vehicle and saw the man with his pants down.
Kaufman] had his pants down mid-thigh and was exposed showing his fully erect nude penis. [Kaufman] was manipulating his genitals in a masturbatory manner.”
The officer said Kaufman didn’t seem to notice the officer at first, but that Kaufman was in view of a nearby bicyclist and a preschool where children were playing outside.
Kaufman was charged with public sexual indecency, but 12News in Phoenix reported that Kaufman could also face a possible felony charge because of his proximity to the preschool.
Despite the charge, the Maricopa County Recorder’s Office said it’s too late for Kaufman’s name to be removed from the ballot, and some people have already voted earlyThe hypocrisy is just appalling. And now he is on the ballot and people will be voting for him.
Hypocrisy? We Americans (at least those that voted in these said elections ) Voted for Trump and Biden with both having sexual accusations from many women, and both had women that claimed they were raped by these men.
Thankfully he was arrested, and now has a record of this lude behavior, we won't ever see him run and possibly win the presidency. LOLSharlee: Sexual accusations are one thing. Actually catching someone in the act is another.
True, however, we had women step forward and share their graphic accounts of rape. I am not willing to just dismiss these women. As many did not dismiss the accusations against Brett Kavanaugh. Just can't pick and choose accounts on rape, now can we?
Sharlee: I am not familiar to whom you are referencing. It matters if they were under oath or not. If they were, then you are right, we can't pick and choose, but if they were not, then they are accusations without culpable evidence...I think that is how culpability works.
Most Democrats vote party because the GOP has lost its judgement. I'm tired of hearing about "both sides" when they are not the same.
Oh, you said a mouth full... I certainly can say being a Republican I am appreciative that you feel we are not the same. I would not want to be associated with the Democratic party in any respect. My comment is not meant to be rude, just being truthful.
It seems as though a particular set of political beliefs has turned into an identity for many. We are starting to view political beliefs as some sort of intrinsic, personal characteristic or affiliation much like race, religion or ethnicity. People are letting politics define them. It's going to destroy this country because politicians see how very little is needed to keep you within the party. Essentially all it will take is just enough fear of the other whether it is justified or not.
An example? A father of a 7th grader is suing his child's School district, teacher & board of Education because a pride flag was displayed during pride week in his classroom. This is so incredibly frivolous. The fact that Mr DeSantis pushed through this type of legislation is a prime example of whipping up nonsensical fear and the real issues remain untouched.
The real issues? We see great disparity and funding across public school districts, lack of up-to-date curriculum and buildings are in disrepair. Some districts have wonderful technology while others don't even have enough textbooks to go around. Some districts have the ability to keep class size at a manageable level and others are forced to create classes pushing 40 or more kids. Beyond the classroom we have kids showing up hungry because many of our states refused breakfast or lunch programs. These kids leave school hungry and we expect them to do homework and exceed academically. My point is, why are we focusing on a flag? Why are people being distracted with these non issues and all of the actually critical matters are conveniently ignored?
I don't care if a politician is red or blue, you would better have a practical , reality based focus. Far too many of our elected public servants are leading folks off into the weeds."It seems as though a particular set of political beliefs has turned into an identity for many. We are starting to view political beliefs as some sort of intrinsic, personal characteristic or affiliation much like race, religion or ethnicity. People are letting politics define them. "
Are not beliefs politics or other basic beliefs all part of one Character? Political ideologies truly, in my view, incorporate morals and values and consider morals and values a big part of one's character. As I feel race and religion can also influence character.
I think ideologies are an intricate part of us all, and it is very human to exhibit and share ideologies.
"an example? A father of a 7th grader is suing his child's School district, teacher & board of Education because a pride flag was displayed during pride week in his classroom. This is so incredibly frivolous."
This is a perfect example of a man exhibiting his morals, and religious beliefs. He took umbrage to have his child exposed to a gay pride flag.
You seem to feel this was political, I felt it was or may have been due to religious views or ideology about what he wanted his child exposed to.
It may be " frivolous." to you, but it is clear it was not frivolous. to the dad, It would not be frivolous to me. I would not want my children exposed
to Homosexual ideology at an inappropriate age. I feel I have the right to voice that view. Children are in school to be educated and not exposed to
sexual preferences. We don't hire teachers to share their personal ideologies period, in my view.
Not in the not-so-far past, we would have not had to even deal with this scenario. So, today some parents would have a problem with a teacher bringing a gay pride flag into the classroom. But, keep in mind not all people feel being gay is something to be prideful of. We are above all individuals, we have many characteristics that make up our whole.
I believe the left and right or the liberal and conservative have very much different beliefs, and our ideologies are so far apart. We should just be respecting one another's space, and stop thinking it is so important to try to bring one another to "our side". We have come to a time that there is really no compromise on our beliefs, they are too far apart.
"I don't care if a politician is red or blue, you would better have a practical, reality based focus. Far too many of our elected public servants are leading folks off into the weeds."
All I can say to this is --- You might feel what is being presented by some politicians is weeds, whereas some do not agree with that sentiment.
Maybe just time to realize we all feel our views, and our political leanings are valid.You know as well as I do that a 13 year old child, unless his parents have him in some sort of bubble, already knows a whole lot about this world. But as long as politicians keep folks focused on a flag, all of the other issues that really matter and that actually contribute to improved educational outcomes fall by the wayside. Why? It costs nothing to rally against a flag. It takes a whole lot of work to improve our educational system in meaningful ways. That flag is meaningless to educational excellence. Who is doing that work? This is where I feel that politicians are leading people astray.
Politics today has very cultish undertones.
We have almost 3 million homeless children in America today, who is talking about them?? Where are the solutions for them?It is clear to me our politicians don't touch on true problems such as the 3 million homeless children in America, you speak of. Or the many homeless, and the mentally ill that end up falling into the cracks. They would rather talk about Abortion, Gender equality, unfair voting laws, and the color of their skin.
Priorities by some have been set, education, and the less fortunate matter little.We should certainly expect ALL of our politicians to be able to walk and chew gum. They do not need to have a singular focus. "We the people" need to hold their feet to the fire on these practical issues also but we don't. Politicians have folks heads spinning with meaningless distractions. Again, all of those culture wars are free and require no real work.
It's a crying shame that we have half a million children in this wealthy Nation who are lingering and languishing in a broken foster care system. Yet who mentions it? It's not popular because it costs money and also because it doesn't set people's hair on fire and divide them. When are people going to wake up to this? We the people are being played like a fiddle by politicians"We the people" need to hold their feet to the fire on these practical issues also but we don't."
Yes so true, this is why we vote, and the majority rule, Voting is the only way we can hold feet to the fire. So, I disagree, I think those that care, vote, and hold feet to the fire.
I think Americans are waking up. We like no other time have more people voting, and having their voices heard. Just look at the diverse candidates we have in the Nov election. I feel we have many voices being heard that we have never heard before. So many ideologies are being shared.
Well then, the left shouldn't elevate the rainbow flag above the American flag! The left shouldn't be making politics out of absolutely everything!! They shouldn't be putting bugs in the ears of our young, having them question {at a very young age} who they are and if God made a mistake with them!!!!
Can we please allow them their childhood; to just be kids!
They (the left/Dems/progressives) shouldn't have kids focusing on the color of their skin, determining whether they are a victim or not!
Children shouldn't be hearing/knowing that half of this country devalues life and if they somehow made it through to the other side, how does that half feel about them now!? Are they suddenly valued or not so much!?!
They (the left) shouldn't be blaming inanimate objects in taking the lives of innocent people, but rather be questioning why and what happened to the individuals that choose to do this?
Could it have anything to do with DEVALUING LIFE!?!?!Devaluating life, as well as morals, and values. We are clearly seeing the denaturing of common sense, which makes it much easier to denature important human morals and values. Minds are being muddled, and it is hard to decipher facts, right or wrong with a muddled mind.
All is turned upside down. This is why it has become easy for all you mentioned to become important to some, they can block out serious problems to ruminate on all kinds of unnecessary issues."they can block out serious problems to ruminate on all kinds of unnecessary issues
Yes like making sure someone's feelings aren't bruised over a rainbow flag for God's sake when we have schools around us in actual disrepair and disarray due to inequality of funding.I don't find bringing a gay pride flag to school as simple as all that. The flag represents a sexual preference, does it not? Sexual preference was never a concern when it came to educating our children, in regard to reading, writing, math, science, history, etc... Sexuality preference is ultimately an individual choice, their right. It would seem we do not need to handle sexual preference in our schools.
If it is OK for a teacher to bring in a gay pride flag, is it just acceptable for a teacher to bring in any type of flag to school? Perhaps the Confederate flag, or the BLM flag, or a Trump flag, or a Biden flag.
Do teachers have the right to bring any flag that just ultimately shares ideology? I will be very honest, I don't think they do.
I don't feel this dad should be suing, but he has a right to object to having a teacher bring in a flag that represents an ideology, that perhaps a parent feels advierse to.
How about we start with the removal of the rainbow flag from our children's classrooms!?
WHY it has even found its way in, in the first place, should be questioned, boldly!
Let us get back to the basics and back to the utilization of common sense (agreed)
A great starting point and then we can go from there.Before anyone reads anything other that what was intended.....in other words, let us educate, no indoctrinate!
So, how do we handle controversial issues in the classroom?
I hang on the principle of establishment. This applies to religious dogma and many other topics at the grade school level. With the rampage DeSantis is on these days, prominent display of the rainbow flag, a political symbol, should have been avoided. If any of the students were wearing say, a shirt with the symbol on it or Black Lives Matter, that is a different circumstance entirely. Promotion by the teacher is where he got into trouble.
https://heartlandsignal.com/2022/10/26/ … t-divorce/
So, what's next, this GOP candidate in Michigan want to ban books on the topic of divorce, why, because her daughter was upset reading about it.
Conservatives are irritatingly obtuse at times. They want to control thoughts and ideas when the very purpose of education is not indoctrination but expanding ones horizons. They consistently are more interested in indoctrination with the truth coming in a distant second. Every bit of reading material inconsistent with their narrow line of reasoning is pornographic."So, how do we handle controversial issues in the classroom?"
Maybe just educate in math, reading, writing science, history --- etc.
I am not saying sex education does not belong in education. It should be addressed in junior high, and high school.
You do know the US learning score, they have been sub-par for many years.
I have followed Michigan GOP candidates very closely. The media is trying to smear each and every one. However unsuccessfully. They don't quote, they construct lies openly. The debate between Whitmer and Dixson was very telling. It showed her to be controlled, and very much staying on her agenda, and being very well prepared with facts that Whitmer could not defend., and Whitmer lied time after time.
My God, how could you even use the word indoctrination? Our conversation is about a teacher bringing a gay pride flag to school... This teacher clearly was sharing an ideology about gender. In my view, this is a form of imparting one's own ideologies to children. Maybe teachers need to just do their job. I would no more feel it appropriate for a teacher to bring on a union jack flag.
Dixson is a lovely woman that shares many of my values. You are viewing media smear. Maybe you should watch her debate, Whitmer., and learn a bit about this woman.
In the end would it just not be better if teachers just did their job?Well, for the first question, it still remains regarding what is appropriately taught as science, and history being taught that avoid expurgating the more unpleasant aspects of our past. Hundreds of book titles have targeted in this state for reasons having nothing to do with pornography or otherwise, premature carnal knowledge.
As for your Michigan politics, I won't debate you. I am sure that you have your thumb on things in your own backyard. But your candidate is "hard right" and the article did not come from a vacuum. Did she share the account that she spoke about there or no?
I agree with you that in this case, I was inappropriate for a teacher to introduce such concepts to elementary school children. The question I have is just how far is this censorship of ideas going to go? It goes beyond elementary school children, at least here in Florida all the so called woke nonsense that DeSantis is dishing out is spreading its tentacles into senior high school grades and up to the Univeristy level.
Why is it always that the need for censorship always come from the Right? I associate that with indoctrination.
Why do you think that the media always seem to have Republicans in its crosshairs?I am not for banning books at all. I feel that perhaps just considering when to introduce the questionable book by age. I also feel our history is our history, and it should be very accurately taught, again introduced when age appropriate.
"Why is it always that the need for censorship always comes from the Right?"
I feel this is true, I feel it very much has to do with our conservative beliefs mixed in with our propensity to take our religion very seriously.
"Why do you think that the media always seem to have Republicans in its crosshairs?"
In my view, I feel it is obvious the left media is promoting liberal ideas more than they have ever done. And kept conservatism front and center as being an enemy to the Nation. They promote liberal ideology in hopes that it will stick if pounded in 24/7. I have never witnessed this form of totally split media.
I feel the great divide was defiantly brought on by the media. I feel this media has not done the left any favors, one only needs to note the ratings progressively getting worse on one side, and the other side picking up higher ratings. I follow AOL's comments. AOL leans left with their reporting, and for many years now, conservatives' views were buried, One just needed to view "likes" to see liberals rule AOL. Not any longer, it is clear many liberals have become disillusioned with the goings on.
In my view, we need to get back to neutral reporting, otherwise, we will be left on a roller coaster in this country. I almost feel that people may just right the ship.
I think the media put up a good fight but is quickly losing its battle due to being overzealous. The people are waking up to see through their deception (on both sides).
In regard to Tudor Dixson. The beauty of America we can vote, and here in Michigan we do fluctuate and vote out representatives that don't do their job. This is a positive in regard to being a swing state. We have a good mix of ideologies, and always respect the outcome
of our elections. Because I know we do try to vote out those that don't produce and keep promises.It is good that you don't believe in banning books while leading members of your tribe want to do just that.
Why is conservatism associated with censorship? It has always been this way behind some principle of defending morals that are universally shared. It is true that Republicans claim to be religious and are more suspicious of ideas contrary to their own, but that cannot deny me and others the right to full access to materials allowing one the ability to come to his or her own conclusion. Religious dogma has been used to impede progress during any age or period one would like to investigate.That is different regarding parents and minors. But overall, that is a big negative in my camp.
As for the media, yes I have heard from the Right the complaint about a leftist media and have heard enough of their voices to give some of it some credence. On the other hand, a candidate that avoids adversity and do not want to answer the hard questions is a red flag. We are polarized as Republicans believe that they can ignore all media and contrary opinion that are not in full and agreement with their campaign. We are partisan because that attitude says that I only need to appeal to conservatives and Republican leaning voters. I guess that they suppose that there are enough of these die hards to give them a victory. I think that conservatives wear the liberal media bias, much like their MAGA hats, as part of uniform.
There is no such thing as true neutral reporting, but it as the late JFK said...
"I not only could not stifle controversy among your readers.. I welcome it. This Administration intends to be candid about its errors; for as a wise man once said: "An error does not become a mistake until you refuse to correct it." We intend to accept full responsibility for our errors; and we expect you to point them out when we miss them"
April, 1961That JFK quote is wonderful. How did our politicians ever get to the point?
Then there was this --- Joseph Goebbels. “If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained .."
Is this not closer to what some of our politicians have come to live by today?
I don't believe in hiding history, if we hide it we won't learn from it.
Just look at the two quotes, they both truely make us think. One is so positive, and one so negative. It makes us truely accountable for which values we adopt, and hope to live by.Would you count the destruction of our history as "censorship", akin to book banning? I certainly would, but it has so far been 100% liberals that have taken the road to destruction of our historical monuments. Don't want to see them, find them repulsive and offensive, so pull down and hide our history!
Wilderness, is it destruction to insist that those political and military leaders of the Confederacy not be give a prominent place in a public square that my tax dollars support? I don't believe that traitors and treason should be commemorated as among the finest of examples in the American tradition. This, no more than I would commemorate Benedict Arnold.
I am not "erasing" history more than I am saying move the likenesses of these men to private property or a museum.
I oppose removing the monuments to Washington and Jefferson, who even though were slaveholders, did not betray their country. I would say the same for Woodrow Wilson's statute at his alma mater, Princeton university. Even though he was a racist, he was otherwise an accomplished leader who did not betray his country.
You can probably pick up what the common denominator is that supports my reasoning."Wilderness, is it destruction to insist that those political and military leaders of the Confederacy not be give a prominent place in a public square that my tax dollars support?"
Is it censorship to deny public funds to purchase and make available books I find objectionable? Perhaps we should build a special building somewhere (perhaps the heart of DC where it would be appropriate) for all the nasty, evil, books will be kept. Open to the public, of course, but away from the public eye for the vast majority of folks.
Yes, I got the common denominator in your reasoning. My reasoning is that the evil in some books, leading to eternal damnation, is far more important that a few seconds glance at a statue you find objectionable. Yet one is OK to remove and not the other. How does that work - only things you find objectionable are to be subject to removal from the public eye?
Don't misunderstand, Credence - I am no more supporting a statue of Robert E Lee than the Kama Sutra. I am merely pointing out that your opinion is not the deciding factor. That the majority opinion, when it comes to mere distaste at viewing something, should not be the deciding factor either.Good point, I will concede this round to you, this time....
I am committed to resign to Southern bigots who say that these people receive homage because of 'heritage', because, after all, I can't take issue with the Mary Tyler Moore statue in Minneapolis.
And I am not placing a billboard up with text from "Lady Chatterley's Lover for all to see and be exposed to whether they want it or not. Privately people should be able to read what they wish.
Regardless, I see your point and will, grudgingly, assign it some merit.
The objection is with White Supremacy and the reminder of its true and enduring nature everytime I have to come down the same road in typical Southern town. These are the kinds of "reminders" that continue to make an accord between our opposing groups just that much more difficult.Thank you.
Personally I find "gay pride" more prevalent than white supremacy today, and BLM even more so. You are not alone in your distaste for specific groups - the joy is when a group of what you consider your enemies takes on and disposes of one of those distasteful groups. People in my state have done that multiple times and I applaud them every time. So do the large majority of us.
Wilderness: As they say, history is written by the victors. The confederates lost. We don't pledge allegiance to the confederate flag. We have made refugees out of Indian nations by placing them on reservations all in the name of manifest destiny. Once gold was discovered in the Black Hills all the treaties that had with the tribes went out the window.
That's nice. But back to the point of this bit of forum; is the destruction of historical monuments and other items similar to censorship of books? In my mind, it is.
That's an easy one, because mainstream media is an arm of the Democratic Party; naturally, the Republican Party is in their cross hairs!
As for DeSantis, I am grateful that he agrees with me, sex ed has no place in K-3, my grandbabies aren't ready for that. For the mature older one, she can talk to her Mom and Dad if she has questions beyond math, reading and spelling.....
After all, that's part of parenting.
Teachers need to stick with teaching the basics, preparing kids to move from one grade level to the next, done right, it keeps an Educator's plate plenty full! No need to pile on the plate, pushing out the good stuff !!Through my time on this forum it's become really clear that people don't understand what goes on in the classroom. Thus far almost everyone has taken the student out of the equation. Do you think that they are all silent? Don't express thoughts, opinions? Some of them certainly do try to talk openly to their teacher or even the classroom at large about their struggles at home or personally. This can get into some pretty dramatic territory. Not every child has a receptive parent or parents to speak to. How do we keep a muzzle on them inside the classroom?? How do we squelch them?? And then how do we prohibit their speech during unsupervised time such as lunch and for the younger ones recess? Should we open it up for parents to sue other parents whose children speak about topics that offend??
Oh and as for sex ed for kindergarten through third grade, that's not an issue anywhere in this country
That's an issue that your Governor made up and then produced a solution for a non-issue. Wins him some points I suppose and costs nothing. Meanwhile real problems go unaddressed.Your comments are appreciated, AB.
I explained to Sharlee my view of the "negative liberal media"
I can't disagree with your statements, except that much of even the basics are becoming politicized. How about history and social studies?
"Maybe just educate in math, reading, writing science, history --- etc."
To have this happen in the strictest sense we would have to have pre-programmed robots teaching children. I suppose then the robot could give the students a canned politically correct phrase or just easily ignore them. What a lot of folks are missing these days while they are focusing in on the teacher is the role of the students themselves. How do we muzzle them? Do we remove discussion time from classrooms all together? Many of them speak on end not only about their home life, their parents but about their own thoughts & struggles. They find a way to weave in their concerns in any discussion period. This includes drug use, sexual encounters, homosexuality, abuse at home and on and on. I only retired a few years ago but I could already see we have a very outspoken, rebellious generation coming up. For parents to believe that a middle school student, as was the case in Florida, hasn't already experienced and heard an earful is just naive. Would the presence of a rainbow flag turn you gay? I don't think it does for children either. But maybe for some it's just a welcoming little piece to show they are accepted when they may likely be shunned or hated by their own family.
At age 5 my daughter was exposed to the penis of a distant cousin at her Grandmother's house on Christmas Eve. The only reason she wasn't traumatized and he did not go further was because she told him correctly that was his penis and not a "sneaky snake." She relayed this to me in passing the next day.
Children are not hurt by too much information. They are hurt by the lack of it.I can agree with your thought. However, we are conversing about what is appropriate to be taught in school. What a teacher has the right to share.
We were discussing a teacher being sued for bringing in a Gay pride flag. Is it appropriate for a teacher to share their private ideologies?
Basically, information is good, the point is it appropriate to give teachers a forum to impress their ideologies children? Too many parents may prefer their child not to celebrate homosexuality. Ultimately parents might prefer to have control over what their children are being exposed to in school.
Seeing a penis by accident in no way compares to telling a child one can have sex with the same gender. I think many parents have had to explain why little Billy has a penis, and you don't because you are a girl. Things can get sticky when you need to explain homosexuality. As a parent, I would like to be the one to offer that explanation.
Oh okay, didn't realize the investigation was moving along so quickly.
I stand corrected!
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