What is your top issue for US other than current news?
Satista published in Mar 2023 poll results for the top issues for the U .S. conducted in Feb. They are ranked most important to least. Ranked first and perhaps an indicator of general attitude toward what is in the news is 'The government/Poor leadership' at 14%. Next is the Economy in General at 13%. Surprisingly to me anyway is LGBT Rights, Situation with China, Situation with Russia, the Media, and Lack of Money fell in the bottom of concerns at 1%.
Take a peek at the 36 topics and where they fell. Do you think they indicate the pulse of America on issues. How about your concerns vs Statista's presentation? Do you think there may be a bias of who was polled or about right?
What do you think is the most important problem facing this country today?
https://www.statista.com/statistics/323 … ng-the-us/Not being American, I don’t know what “…the most important problem facing” the USA is today. I don’t know where the “pulse of America is on issues”; so I shall follow this forum with interest.
You raise an interesting question on whether there may be a bias in the pole, or whether it was polled about right. I don’t have an answer, but whenever I’ve looked at Statista data in the past, while researching specific points I’ve found Statista data to be reasonably reliable, not always totally accurate, but usually in the right ‘ballpark’.
I was hoping to be able to make a direct UK vs USA comparison, but even on the Statista website the question is phrased slightly differently for the UK e.g. for the USA it’s “what is the most important problem)” (one issue), whereas for the UK it’s “what are the most important issues (plural).
I find the most reliable pollster for the UK to be YouGov; they have a good reputation for consistent accuracy to within a margin of error of about 2%.
The question asked by YouGov for the UK, which has been consistently asked every few weeks since 2011 so that political parties can follow trends over time, is as follows:
“Which of the following do you think are the most important issues facing the country at this time? Please tick up to three.”
The findings for the most recent YouGov poll on this question, on the 3rd April 2023, is copied below; and in brackets, the percentage giving by Statista for the same question on their website for March 2023.
• The economy = 58% (Statista = 59%)
• Health = 45% (Statista = 45%)
• Immigration & Asylum =35% (Statista = 30%)
• The environment = 24% (Statista = 23%)
• Brexit = 17% (Statista = 22%)
• Housing = 17% (Statista = 17%)
• Crime = 17% (Statista = 16%)
• Defence and security = 12% (Statista = 13%)
• Tax = 12%
• Education = 11% (Statista = 13%)
• Pensions = 8%
• Family life & childcare = 8%
• Welfare benefits = 7%
• Transport = 2%I think your list almost mirrors most concerns of Americans today. I do feel due to our daily turmoils our concerns are very much flexible.
Thanks for the feedback; and a valid point, daily turmoil making concerns flexible seems logical.
- savvydatingposted 23 months ago
0One would think lack of money would be right up there with the economy and inflation.
This may be a matter of how the question was worded.
I do agree that our current (Progressive) leadership is our number one problem. Biden’s lack of leadership is making us vulnerable on the world stage as well as here at home.Exactly, the middle class is eroding. Inflation is at astronomical rates. For example, the average rent in New York City is $4,000.00 per month. Food prices are escalating. I am lucky enough to shop organic products w/o it effecting me. Think of the people who can't afford quality food. There are people who eat only one meal a day because of the food prices.
Yes, Biden isn't presidential material. However, people praise him. Biden is taking this country further into the abyss. When I state this, I am called pejorative names such as rightwinger. I refuse to agree with Biden & his cohorts-they clearly don't know how to manage the United States. I have no respect for Biden & Harris. Biden is the worst president, even Carter wasn't as bad as Biden. Biden isn't smart at all. Savvy, we are watching a circus.
The danger of dumb people that continue to drool and cozy up, smitten like a school girl, to one man while trashing democracy and "the process" along the way.
My number one concern --- The economy, and fear of the dollar being diminished, and leading to a financial collapse in America.
My biggest concern won't surprise anyone on this site: the radical right and their total lack of compassion for anyone who is not exactly like them. Through Trump they have been revealed for what they are - or what they have become. I take hope in the fact they are a shrinking minority (though well represented here on HP).
Let the assault on me personally begin.
Make America Good Again.Reflecting on the first issue of prominence, "the government/Poor leadership. I don't see it as particular to Progressives alone any more than the Freedom Caucus or far right. For average Joe and Jill who make up the majority of the populace, it is a matter of 'trusting America's Institutions'. Period. IMHO be that what it may and open to change.
Only 7% of Americans have trust in Congress one poll says. (See below for link) Gallup organization has been polling trust in American Institutions since at least 1973. Link following. Just go to government institutions of your choice, i.e., the Supreme Court, Congress, and the Presidency for a peek.
Other institutions like the media, military, religion, and the police are also available. In 1973 43% had a great deal of confidence in Religion fading to 14%. Spend some earnest time while most of you know more than I who was president and which party held Congress during which time period. For instance, for TV news in 1973, 16% had little confidence and today it is 49% have little confidence. For Congress 1973 11% had little confidence and has been deteriorating to 54% with little confidence. Then connect the dots.
And, wonder why for a bit while remembering it is a pattern over time. One thought I pondered is politics itself with its divide growing for decades the cause of the lack of trust in general of American Institutions that are supposed to be esteemed. Remember the effect of the generational divide too.
Opinion: Only 7% of Americans have confidence in Congress. Are institutions failing us? by the Desert News and is an Opinion Piece.
https://www.deseret.com/opinion/2022/8/ … news-media
Confidence in Institutions by Gallup Organization. It shows from 1973 through 2022.
https://news.gallup.com/poll/1597/confi … tions.aspxI was struck, as I often am in these forums, by the negativity, and district, of Americans towards their ‘institutions’.
Thanks for the links Tim. In making a quick comparison with the UK; I get the impression that British people are far more positive, and have a lot more trust in our institutions in the UK than Americans have in their institutions. The data source I’ve used as a comparison is a ‘Report’ published by the ONS (Office of National Statistics) for 2022. The ONS being an ‘Independent’ Government Department e.g. not answerable to the Government, but answerable to Parliament only: which makes it a reliable (apolitical) source.
The results from this, for trust, are listed below; followed by (where available), given in brackets - ‘confidence’ in American Institutions taken from the link you provided. Notwithstanding that confidence and trust isn’t the same thing, there should nevertheless be a strong similarity between the two.
• 80% of UK population have trust in the NHS (Medical system in the USA = 38%, Health Maintenance Organisation in the USA = 19%)
• 68% trust the courts and the legal system (Supreme Court in USA = 25%, Criminal Justice System in USA = 14%)
• 66% trust in the education system (Public schools in USA = 28%)
• 65% trust in the police (Police in USA = 45%)
• 55% trust the Civil Service
• 42% trust local governments
• 42% trust in Social care services
• 41% trust in International Organisations.
• 41% trust the OECD (Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development)
• 35% trust the national government (Presidency in USA = 23%)
• 34% trust in Parliament (Congress in USA = 7%)
• 32% trust in the News Media (Newspapers in USA = 16%, TV in USA = 11%, news on the Internet in the USA 16%)
• 20% trust in political parties
In the same ONS Report:-
• 75% of the UK population believe the UK government should place higher priority on supporting businesses.
• 64% believe the UK government should place higher priority on tackling climate change, and
• 54% believe the UK government should place higher priority on reducing the national debt.
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulation … entuk/2022Thanks for the U.K. data. One reason I like your posts about the U.K. along with peeking at Sweden's on the same topic is it gives me perspective. Of course, I take into account the right/left positions here, yet I do my due diligence with research to verify what the right/left media says and wherever I get info.
Regarding the Gallup poll done yearly since 1973, I find there is an apparent change in trust/confidence in our institutions and not just government ones, i.e., Religion, Public Schools, Banks, etc. They have flip-flopped from a Great Deal to Very Little.The answer to this is a simple one.
In the UK, those institutions are providing the services and security that the people want or expect.
Clearly, in America they are not. The majority is not happy with them.
The Medical is the easiest to understand, it is not affordable, it is built upon making a profit and not caring for the patient. Our government, Congress, caters to Big Pharma, Insurance, etc. and not the needs of the people.
In general, from the Public School system to the News, there is a general distrust, I believe, due to the push from these "leaders", "elites", the government, for agendas and changes that the majority do NOT want or agree with.
I have to imagine if you are a parent with a daughter that competes in sports, you aren't overly thrilled with some of the changes being pushed these days.
If you are someone who still watches TV or MSM News, you have caught them telling enough lies or opinions as "facts" and news, that you don't trust them... how many times do they need to get caught pushing a mistruth?Thanks for you input Ken, most interesting; and what you say does seem to ring true.
I agree with most of what you shared, Ken, especially about leadership/elites. Yet, they speak to the last decade or two I feel while considering generations have a large impact. In the big picture, we baby boomers have seen it transpire over the whole time period since 1973. We influence generations following us. The closer the generation the stronger the influence I think. That can be pro vs con.
We witnessed/lived through the Viet Nam war and Nixon's resignation when the report began. And, the Bush WMD thing too. It has been slowly declining of course impacted by the different presidents and administrations for government institutions trust/confidence level. And, in this century the great impact of technology regards trust levels.Technology has its impact... but the UK has access to that same technology.
What we have seen is a substantial shift in the efforts to focus on divisive issues... or issues that effect .03% of the population, we are being forced to cater to that .03% at the expense of social norms and safeties.
How can forced Equity work in a system of merit?
How does it make sense to force the 99% to accept the 1% who are men, that want to identify as women, so we must all allow them to compete with, shower with, and otherwise be treated as women?
Do you think I want an Equity assigned Doctor, Case Worker, Fire Fighter working on my behalf?
No, I prefer the most qualified, proven, and capable, thanks anyways.
Americans are dissatisfied because everything that is meant to unify a Society is under attack or being destroyed... maybe that is the end result of putting individuality, or Liberty, above the collective best.
If what we are seeing today is the progression of sacrificing the good of the whole, the wellbeing of the collective, for the individual above all else, then ultimately the system will fail. I believe we are in the midst of that failing, that collapse, now... we are living in that moment when we have crested the hill and are about to go speeding down to the bottom.
And of course, lets not forget, Congress, DC, the Pentagon, etc. catering to the whims of Corporations and Conglomerates at the expense of what is best for Americans.
We are getting the double whammy... Big Pharma and Insurance over the needs of the people. The needs of the .03% over the needs of the 99%.I get where you are coming from, Ken. And, I agree with most of it while will ponder about some of it, which is usual for me. I 'feel' that change is happening way too fast socially, with science and technology, and life in general challenging personal autonomy as people seek to adapt to the many changes happening simultaneously.
One thing for certain it is a large task for governments, all governments,(Leadership) to keep up with it. The leadership can't be experts in everything that needs to be minded. Then we get into the debate about regulations politically.
And, right now, we are seeing the impact of AI while remembering it is a little bit past go and beginning to accelerate. I use Grammarly which corrects my writing with recommendations on my PC with MS Word and it does it for online writing such as this post.
There has been an ongoing discussion in the other main forum of how to use a new AI software for writing articles for HP and what is accepted. I have friends sharing their AI illustrations on Facebook that look like photo images. And, with photo software photoshopping images to their liking, thus altering reality. Change is occurring and for me, like others, it is a topsy-turvy world now. Frankly, I don't even own a cell/smartphone and never have, so definitely a dinosaur, right?I can relate, technology is hard to keep up with... and I had the benefit of being one of those who learned how to program and operate computers back when they were just getting past the punch-card stage.
Today, we are well past the MS-DOS and C: prompt stages where you can go in and alter a computer operating system, on any level, they integrate and operate without the average user having the ability to make change.
I have a phone (and watch) and Car and a Home (Smart) that update, connect to the internet and talk to one another on their own... one tracks my heartrate, how many steps I take, what my stress level is, the other two record security issues, let me know when someone is at the door, or near my car, and they do all these things without any prompting or guidance by me, other than initially being set-up/turned-on.
But technology has little to do with what the Politicians and MSM decide to focus on. Why did Biden put out the EO on Equity? Why did Biden put out an EO protecting Transgenders?
Why were we willing to abandon 20 years of effort in Afghanistan, abandoning the people who supported our efforts and breaking our promises... so we could start new hostilities in Ukraine against Russia?
These are just examples of what I consider bad leadership, it has nothing to do with technology, it has to do with bad decisions, bad choices, and corruption.Good points you brought especially about leadership.
I was hoping to use technology as a metaphor for social change and its rate of change. It is in a sense maddening at least for me. There are so many that have occurred like the acceptance of Gay rights and marriage.
To me, the great scare of Y2K was also a metaphor at the metaphysics level for change socially. It all started about 2000 didn't it?
As an example, take a peek if time is avail for you at the following link for the most popular social issues for 2023. There are 24 topics as polls available to see the pulse of America with some topics with over 36 million participants voting on them.
After viewing those 24 of your choice, click New at the top and there are too many issues to count with political topics.
The Most Popular Social Issues of 2023
See where voters are polling on the most popular Social issues of 2023.
https://www.isidewith.com/polls/social
It is not meant to challenge anything only as said a pulse of America on the issues. I was surprised by a few.Yeah, that link, I've been using the word insane quite a bit to describe where we are at.
That certainly reinforced my perception of that.
I understand where you’re coming from Ken, although (as you probably know) my attitudes are a little more liberal.
One point that caught my eye is where you raise the question “Do you think I want an Equity assigned Doctor, Case Worker, Fire Fighter working on my behalf?”, and you go onto answer it with “No, I prefer the most qualified, proven, and capable, thanks anyways.”
From my perspective, to be a doctor, case worker or fire fighter, you need to meet ‘high’ set standards, and be fully qualified and trained; so from my perspective I wouldn’t care whether they are the “most qualified, proven an capable” doctor, case worker or fire fighter; regardless to who they are, I would have confidence in them because they are fully qualified and trained professionals who are employed because they meet the ‘high’ standards that are set in those professions.
However, discrimination is a tricky one, even in Britain e.g. a desire not to discriminate against a potential recruitment because of their colour, race or creed; while at the same time not discriminating against white men in order to meet equality quotas – There are no easy answers, and recently the RAF (Royal Air Force) got into hot water (trouble) when around 160 cases of discrimination against white men had been identified due to mistakes and failings made by the RAF in their attempt to meet equality targets in recruitment?
(March 2023) RAF chief admits to failings in positive discrimination case against white men: https://youtu.be/2J3LmR3USWYThat is not how it works.
Example: There was a political push to get a woman to succeed in becoming a Ranger in the Army, the course was constantly evaluated, modified, watered down, to get it so that a woman could pass its rigors.
Eventually, the political pressure was extreme enough, the focus on it strong enough, that the commanding officer of Ranger training put out instructions to all instructors that they were to pass some women, no matter what (I am paraphrasing of course).
They got their female Rangers. How watered down and inept that particular class was, I have no idea.
I will tell you this, had they gone through the training that had existed 20 years before they went through that school... they wouldn't have made it.
https://dailycaller.com/2019/08/28/fema … er-school/
It became political, too much pressure, women kept failing to meet the standards, it was then ordered that someone make it through.
https://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Military/ … uld-change
Similar goes on for Fire Fighters, Police, and anywhere that physical exertion, strength, stamina are a part of the job requirement.
Not so much in the STEM fields, but for whatever reason, the portion of women who want to enter those fields is relatively small. So even here, Equity would not allow you to select the best, most qualified individual, if you are restricted by race or sex in the selection process.Well obviously you are talking about the USA; whereas I'm talking about the UK.
For the Army in the UK (2022): Qualifying for Army jobs in the UK will continue to require that everyone, regardless of age or gender, must pass the same fitness tests and standards.
Therefore, in the UK a woman needs to be as capable as a man, which may mean that it is going to be harder for women to join the Armed Forces in the UK, but not impossible.
And the standards set for Gurkhas to join the British Army is far higher than most British or American man could endure.
• Uphill Struggle for Nepali Recruits into the British Army: https://youtu.be/NP0Q14j5WEA
• Gurkha Training for the British Army, including their famous Kukri (knife): https://youtu.be/MNAyHcjKJ4A
• 1 Gurkha against more than a dozen Taliban wins Conspicuous Gallantry Cross: https://youtu.be/a8-LRxSl9aw
In the Fire Service in the UK: There used to be restrictions on height, weight and chest expansion. This is no longer the case, but you will be expected to pass strength and fitness tests as part of the recruitment process. The tests are at a level that is achievable by men and women of all different sizes and builds. I don’t see a problem with that.
Obviously for doctors and caseworker, two other areas you highlighted; they are jobs where gender isn’t going to make any difference.
https://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2020/09/71296/
This link discusses bioethics & science regarding transgender surgery, and how it provides “No Mental Health Benefit” and why it is so difficult to get at the truth given the push for faulty science.For the link to the article which you provided, “Public Discourse by the Journal of the Witherspoon Institute, where they say in their headline and article “Correction: Transgender Surgery Provides No Mental Health Benefit” –
If you just follow the source link in the first paragraph of that article, it takes you to the publication to which they refer, a peer review study by the American Journal of Psychiatry, with the heading of the study being “Reduction in Mental Health Treatment Utilization Among Transgender Individuals After Gender-Affirming Surgeries: A Total Population Study (in Sweden)”.
Then if you scroll down to the bottom of that study to the references, and click on reference number 42 it takes you to the webpage that the Public Discourse refer to when they say “Letters to the editor by twelve authors, including ourselves, led to a reanalysis of the data and a corrected conclusion stating that in fact the data showed no improvement after surgical treatment.”
If you then read the American Journal of Psychiatry response to those letters you will find that what the ‘Public Discourse’ article has published is ‘fake news’. In reply, the American Journal of Psychiatry did not print a retraction; what the American Journal of Psychiatry actually said in reply was:-
“Specifically, this study highlights the substantially increased risk of mental health problems among individuals diagnosed with gender incongruence, and in particular, among those in the process of receiving gender-affirming surgery. The study also lends support for expecting a reduction in mental health treatment as a function of time since completing such treatment, at least among those who are still living in Sweden.”
In summary, the above states that according to their study, people in Sweden who are diagnosed with gender incongruence, and in particular those that are going through the stressful process of receiving gender-affirming surgery are at an increased risk of mental health problems, but once the surgery is done, overtime there is a reduction in mental health issues.
To put it into some context, the Witherspoon Institute, who publishes the ‘Public Discourse’, is an American Conservative think tank that opposes abortion and same-sex marriage, and in 2012 the Witherspoon Institute funded a controversial anti-LGBT parenting study.
Thanks Tim, yes attitudes and opinions do change over time; most certainly. Which is why the different political parties pay YouGov for example to keep asking the same questions frequently, so that they follow the trends as they change - which come Election time is important to know by the different political parities when they're drafting their 'election manifestos'.
First thing I noted is they split economy, how it was defined, into two categories.
So if you combine the two, then the overwhelming majority, 25% or more, are concerned with it.
Then comes the terrible leadership we have on DC, that focus on things like equity and transgender rights, and NOT the economy, jobs, more affordable health care etc.
When the economy falters, which it will, far more than it has to date... The overwhelming vast majority of Americans will no longer tolerate being distracted by equity, transgenders, etc.Equity in society is a distraction? Is that why you support DeSantis and all of his anti-woke stuff? I have no choice but to be anti Woke based on the reality of our lives in America. I am automatically going to fit the description by definition.
That is not what I am saying and you know that.
What I am saying is that isn't a priority for 90% of Americans.
What IS a priority for 90% of Americans is being able to afford to eat, being able to have electricity, running water, etc. ... having the money for them, not worrying about being able to get thru the day without skipping a meal.
Once that starts becoming something people have to worry about, because there isn't enough money coming in to meet those needs, well... we'll see how much it matters that equity is being pushed or transgender rights to use bathrooms and compete in sports is enough for people when they cannot buy themselves a dinner.I think and got something different from kens comment.
"Then comes the terrible leadership we have on DC, that focus on things like equity and transgender rights, and NOT the economy, jobs, more affordable health care etc.
When the economy falters, which it will, far more than it has to date... The overwhelming vast majority of Americans will no longer tolerate being distracted by equity, transgenders, etc.'
I think he was sharing that if the economy falters, more Americans
will no longer tolerate being distracted by equity, transgenders, etc.
These social issues will move to the bottom of their lists."Americans
will no longer tolerate being distracted by equity, transgenders, etc.
These social issues will move to the bottom of their lists."
Yes, certainly agree. But who is keeping these issues in the forefront? Republicans are shoving culture war issues at us every chance they get. Personally, I think they do it to distract from the fact they have no real agenda most Americans can relate to.It appears Republicans are keeping the issue in the forefront, and issuing laws to push their agendas. These changes in my view, are a part of their agenda.
We have red and blue states. It is clear that citizens have different issues that disturb them. In our democracy, we have the right to vote out any representative, state or federal that we do not agree with. The majority is the winner. Not a blue state trying to dictate to a red state, period.
When we lose the right to be heard statewide we become a one-party rule. What you appreciate, I may not. It clearly is as simple as that. We all need to respect the law of the majority.
You talk about some Republicans distracting from the fact they have no real agenda most Americans can relate to.
Are you so sure that the Republican representatives don't represent the constituents they represent? Remember they walk ti lines to become reelected. They can be booted if they don't represent their
constituents.I appreciate your points. I don't think I've seen any polling that puts the culture war issues as top concerns
for Americans. Books, bathrooms and drag queens won't win elections. The fearmongering and targeting of groups with little power in our society may play well in Florida but I don't think it will do well nationally.I am not sure "Books, bathrooms, and drag queens won't win elections". I think the issues are being used by both parties very effectively. The Republicans are pushing and bucking all you mentioned. The Democrats are making sure their Blue constituents are fired up about the same subjects.
I think it's red meat for those that consider those issues.
"When we lose the right to be heard statewide we become a one-party rule."
Exactly. Right now in Tennessee, the Republican lead state house is EXPELLING 3 Democratic Representatives who were ELECTED to their positions by those they represent. These Reps testimony before the legislature tell the story of how they had been continually silenced in that body. Not allowed to speak. Kicked out of the legislature because you speak for your constituency. Absolute authoritarianism.
I think the fact that biological males can participate in female sports is a huge issue.
Another one is housing biological males with female prisoners. This has had serious consequences.
A lawsuit filed Wednesday by the Women’s Liberation Front accuses the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation of endangering women by housing biological males in women’s prisons.
According to the lawsuit, a biological male sexually assaulted a female prisoner in Central California Women’s Facility after being housed there under state law. The prison’s response to the woman’s grievance referred to her alleged attacker as a “transgender woman with a penis.”
“Krystal does not believe that women have penises,” the lawsuit says, “and the psychological distress caused by her assault is exacerbated by the prison’s refusal to acknowledge the sex of her perpetrator.”
https://www.dailysignal.com/2021/11/17/ … suit-says/
The horror of those who have "detransitioned" is also a huge issue.'I think the fact that biological males can participate in female sports is a huge issue."
How much of an issue is this? I believe that Pew Research tells us that adult transgender folks may represent 2-3% of the population. Not sure what the percentage is at the elementary school level? Yet we just had Kansas pass a bill to potentially require genital inspection if these little children want to play on the school team. Really? Can't we let schools deal with these one in a million cases? How many trans 3rd graders are there and how many want to play sports? They have ELECTED school boards just for these reasons. Big government should step aside. The local level can handle it.
Frankly, it's not my issue to decide who should transition and in terms of the aftermath Or horrors of detransituoning? These are yet again personal issues. Not government issues. It's not governments role to save people from choices it sees as "bad"
As far as prison, come on. We all know that sexual assault of ALL types is a given in prison. Maybe address the issue of sexual assault in our prisons. Why focus on on the TINY trans population while of ignoring the bigger issue? It's easy for Republicans to vilify a very small group of people who lack power.
"Then comes the terrible leadership we have on DC, that focus on things like equity and transgender rights"
I think of this in the opposite. Republicans have chosen to focus on these issues.
Republicans have chosen to go on the offensive and attack the rights of these people. It leaves Democrats in the defensive position trying to guarantee these individuals will maintain their rights. Republicans have waged a full on culture war. A war that honestly doesn't resonate with the majority of Americans at all.
The Republican legislature in Kansas just passed s bill around transgender people in sports (elementary thru college) A 3rd grader in Kansas who wants to play on the school sports team may have to submit to a "genital inspection." For lack of a better word, GROSS
Who is attacking who here?
It seems as though Republicans choose to attack groups with the least power. What percent of our population is trans? I think Pew says around 2-3% ."Who is attacking who here? "
Democrats are attacking the little girl and her parents, insisting that she share the bathroom and dressing room, not to mention her sports activity, with males.I do not know to which specific case you're referring to. I do think government has gone too far when a genital inspection may be requested of your child because they may have transitioned at age 9... REALLY? How prevalent is that in reality and if my kid had to have his genetials inspected to play on a playground team, I'd pass. The fearmongering the Republican Party does to hold a base knows no bounds.
That's probably one of my fears about the direction this country is headed. Along with an increasing lean toward authoritarian leaders.There is no genital inspection. You seem to miss the point. Which is, how is it okay for children to have their genitals removed or mutilated?
Most of these kids can’t even figure out what they want for dinner. But you’re okay with your son or daughter going through what may be an irreversible, painful, expensive, and very difficult procedure that nearly all deeply regret once they reach adulthood? That is, if they reach adulthood. Most of these young children who have had surgeries commit suicide. Most of them are girls.
The lack of education the Left has regarding this matter is astounding.
For once in your life, read a book or two and turn off MSNBC.
Progressives are dumbing down our society through their propaganda. And they do it deliberately.
It is time for everyone to wake up, and for Republicans to stop being so amenable and moderate.
The Progressive ideology is literally killing our children.Where is your evidence for your claims?
From discussion in a previous forum on this subject most Americans felt that the UK’s medical laws on transgender and transsexuals rather liberal by American standards; for example:-
In the UK, under the juridical law of ‘Gillick competent’, children of any age who can demonstrate competence and understanding to fully appreciate what's involved in their treatment to their doctor can have free medical treatment on the NHS without their parents knowledge or consent; but the NHS will NOT carry out any gender reassignment surgery to any child under the age of 16 in Scotland, 17 in England and 18 in Wales.
Under the age of 16 the only medical treatment the NHS will give to a transgender are hormone blockers.
So I’m sure that if the UK does not carry out gender reassignment surgery on children then I doubt that it happens in America; and I suspect that unlike the UK, American children will need the consent of their parents for any medical treatment they get – and of course, unlike the UK, healthcare is not free in the USA, so I guess it would be the parents, or their medical insurance that would cover the cost.
And secondly, in Europe and the UK over 97% of transsexuals have no regrets. Assuming the same is true for the USA then your claim that most regret it and commit suicide does not seem to add up?
So if you have evidence to support your claim then please share it with us.You are correct. It looks as though our countries doctors are lead by the same principles and guidelines.
The American Academy of Pediatrics, the World Professional Association for Transgender Health and other medical associations have published detailed guidelines for physicians and care teams.
Before a child hits puberty, gender-affirming care is non-medical and non-surgical. It includes counseling and support with a social transition . For example, a child may change their hairstyle or clothes or pronouns to more closely match the gender they identify with.
Doctors who treat transgender children wait until the start of puberty before considering puberty blockers. Clinical guidelines recommend starting hormone therapy only on patients who are 16 and older.
Surgery to enlarge or decrease breast size or to change facial features might occur before a person is 18, but surgeries involving reproductive organs are not carried out on people under the age of 18, according to these doctors and guidelines on gender-affirming care.
In all states, minors who seek transgender treatment need parental consent.
A statement from Boston Children's Hospital:
"We are guided by the World Professional Association for Transgender Health (WPATH) standards and other criteria to surgically treat people who are stable in their gender identity and have documentation of persistent gender dysphoria. All genital surgeries are only performed on patients age 18 and older."Yep, that is very similar to the UK, with perhaps a couple of exceptions – namely:-
1. In the UK, because of juridical law, called the ‘Gillick competent’, children of any age who can demonstrate competence and understanding to fully appreciate what's involved in their treatment, can have free medical treatment on the NHS without their parents knowledge or consent e.g. it’s not uncommon for 13 year olds to get the pill without their parents knowledge (patient/doctor confidentiality) – on the grounds that if a 13 year old is going to have sex anyway, it’s much better they have the pill and don’t get pregnant, rather than not have the pill and end up with an unwanted pregnancy.
2. In the UK children under the age of 16 can get hormone treatment (puberty blockers) on the NHS, and without the parent’s knowledge or consent because of the Gillick competent law; but obviously not the surgery. Whether it’s 16, 17 or 18 when you can get the surgery depends on which part of the UK you live.
But, yes, everything else you describe e.g. counselling and support etc., is very much the same in the UK as the USA.
Also, in the UK we have what’s called a GRC (Gender Recognition Certificate), which anyone over the age of 18 and have lived with their acquired gender for more than two years can apply for; part of the application process requires a detailed medical assessment of gender dysphoria. But once someone has been issued with a GRC it means that they are legally a transgender, rather than just calling themselves a transgender.
Do you have a similar certification to GRC in the USA?
Interesting points
and although I'm not American, I do seem to sense that what you say holds a lot of water.
"When the economy falters, which it will, far more than it has to date... The overwhelming vast majority of Americans will no longer tolerate being distracted by equity, transgenders, etc."
Yes, this is clear to me. I think if Americans wake up to the problem that America may be in trouble in regard to a failing economy, and begin losing their savings, 401k. and our dollar diminishes so their priorities will change. And they will also start realizing we have been badly duped by the media, and our Government.
It is so very scary, and disappointing to see America so falter so badly, and IMO, not really even note what is going on before our eyes.
Yes, all the rest they have dwelled on will; seem very much unimportant if our economy collapses, and takes down much of the world's economy.The compilation showed LGBT rights at the bottom with 1%. Does that mean it is not an issue today with people? Two economic issues are in the top three. Would that not mean it is on their minds today?
tsmog: "Two economic issues are in the top three." I don't understand this concern.
From Deloitte - a financial service giant - nonpartisan - not media: " the US economy is surprisingly healthy, given that it is coming off of a global pandemic, severe supply chain issues, and a war affecting a key global energy supplier. Labor market conditions alone provide a lot of support for the idea that the economy can achieve the desired soft landing (and, despite claims to the contrary, soft landings are not that unusual).2 Inflation remains a concern, but much less of one than it was a year ago. As long as US policymakers can avoid any damaging policy moves, like not lifting the debt ceiling, the signs are good that—after a few quarters of slow growth—the US economy will continue to innovate and create jobs, goods, and services."Interesting paragraph for the state of the economy. Thanks. As to why those two topics were in the top three you would have to ask those that responded to the survey, not me.
Those two in the top three are:
#2 Economy in general at 13%
#3 High cost of living/inflation at 13%
That of course leads to questions about why they feel that way. Is today's microeconomics impacting the average individual more? What about their budgets? Have they gone awry? Are they stretching their dollar more this year than last year?
Here is the link to the Statista survey results that share what Americans' concerns/issues are ranked highest to lowest. The survey was done in Feb and posted Mar this year.
U.S. adults on the most important problem facing the country 2023
https://www.statista.com/statistics/323 … ng-the-us/I am sure plenty of the homeless and those living paycheck-to-patcheck might disagree with the rosy state of the US economy.
If corporations are creating jobs but they are not enough for someone to survive, does that mean things are good?It is unfortunate but our economy is edging down, as was predicted for the first part of the year, and predicted to get worse.
"Both the unemployment rate, at 3.6 percent, and the number of unemployed persons, at 5.9
million edged up in February. These measures have shown little net movement since early
2022. (See table A-1.)"
https://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm
"The findings, reflecting a survey of economists from businesses, trade associations and academia, were released Monday.
Fifty-eight percent of survey panelists continue to believe a recession is likely to occur in 2023. Only 33% of the economists who responded to the survey now expect a recession to begin in the April-June quarter. One-fifth, or 21%, think it will start in the July-September quarter. "
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/us-recessi … push-back/
"Is the US dollar losing its status as the king of currencies?
The greenback is in a weaker position as China, Russia and Iran seek to de-dollarise energy pricing and trading, experts say"
https://www.thenationalnews.com/busines … urrencies/
https://www.foxbusiness.com/economy/eco … inevitable
I hesitate to post facts or waste time doing so. Some will not take them seriously.Isn't the rising unemployment rate is a direct result of Jermone Powell's continuous rate hikes?
Could be ... Jobs report comes out tomorrow. Thus far we have seen lots of jobs cut in the last couple of months. Companies are starting to say, I need to cut to keep some profits. Hopefully, we will see a good number. If not we will see the rate go up once again. and cost go up. The interest rate game is an ugly game, especially for the poor.
There is evidence we are seeing people turning to credit cards to live.
"Americans’ total credit card balance is $986 billion in the fourth quarter of 2022, according to the latest consumer debt data from the Federal Reserve Bank of New York. That’s the highest total since the New York Fed began tracking in 1999. It marks a $61 billion jump from $925 billion in the third quarter of 2022, making it the largest quarterly increase in the report’s history."
https://www.lendingtree.com/credit-card … tatistics/
There is a lot of evidence that warns we are headed for serious economic problems here in the US.
"the homeless and those living paycheck-to-patcheck" OMG! Someone actually cares about those folks? Now that is a step in the right direction.
Why do you think that only socialists and only leftists care about those that are going through hard times?
Even Trump, a person that you hate and hope to see prosecuted, was able to gain so much support because he showed some interest in the working classes, a group that the left has decided to abandon.Trump's interest was no more than lip service, he undermined every real initiative that would benefit middle class and working class families, opting instead to support the MAGAT and silver spoon class.
Trump claimed that he was interested and cared. Yes, he might have just been saying that to get votes. I have no idea, and unless you are able to read minds you do not either.
Joe Biden does not even claim to care.Eccomonmis stats say otherwise for the period Trump was president. One only needs to have a look. Until COVID hit. This site offers all the info under one roof. Note I am not playing the compare game with Biden's economy. Just addressing your comment in regard to Trump's economy. I could, but I won't. No need to go there.
Fact show Trump was doing well with every aspect of the economy until we had to shut down the country.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-45827430
In regard to Trump's tax cuts -- The Trump Tax Cut Wasn’t Just for the Rich
It was far from perfect, but it did boost middle-class incomes.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles … #xj4y7vzkg
https://thehill.com/opinion/finance/584 … cans-most/
I am just wondering what Kathleen thinks is being done to help the poor, and those that live paycheck to paycheck. It seems she feels that one who "cares" will fix the mess these folks are living through under this administration. I don't understand how anyone can be fooled into our economy is good. either. One only needs to shop for food and pay the monthly utility bills... or better yet just do a bit of research on what economists are predicting. All the well-wishing in the world will not affect the final bill at the grocery store.
Kathleen
DRMARK1961 WROTE:
I am sure plenty of the homeless and those living paycheck-to-patcheck might disagree with the rosy state of the US economy.
If corporations are creating jobs but they are not enough for someone to survive, does that mean things are good?
Kathleen Cochran - "the homeless and those living paycheck-to-patcheck" OMG! Someone actually cares about those folks? Now that is a step in the right direction.
I must ask --- How is the current state of the economy helping the poor, and those that live paycheck to paycheck? Not trying to be obtuse. However, it is a mere fact that we at this point and now for over a year have had inflation. The poor and those that live paycheck to paycheck have less to spend... So please, how is your "caring about these folks" helping them? Perhaps you could enlighten me on what is being done to help these folk through these hard times we al;l are going through.
Yes. To both, yet the MSM won't stop pushing the less than 1% issues.
These issues are largely overinflated over covered and dramatized, for the very purpose of putting Americans against one another... It works really well, just look at these forums.
What America gets is constant Trump bashing, transgender stories, and whatever other nonsense they keep feeding to those who waste their time watching things like CNN.
We have 3rd world understanding of our government and what it is doing in America... The general population is woefully ignorant.
The MSM does little to inform and much to distract. That will be hard to continue with when people can't afford to eat or pay for medicine.
I think a huge topic is the crisis at the southern border.
BIDEN’S BORDER CRISIS IS THE WORST IN AMERICAN HISTORY
HIS POLICIES CONTINUE TO MAKE IT WORSE
KEY TAKEAWAYS:
1. Under Joe Biden, America is facing the worst border crisis in our history.
2. President Biden has undermined America’s border security and the integrity of our immigration system at every turn.
3. Biden’s border policies are creating a growing national security crisis, and threatening the safety of
Americans across the country.
https://www.politico.com/f/?id=0000017f … bd59400000It takes both parties in Congress to work on immigration reform. Republicans seem a little busy with issues they find more important.
One can only look at the historic numbers of migrants that have come across the borders under this administration to see this problem is more of a problem than Congress not addressing the problem. We have had this problem for decades. However, one only needs to look at a chart to see Biden has opened our borders, and that he has done nothing to deter migrants from making the trip. In fact, he has encouraged all to come and even has a website to add more to the ever-growing number.
It is clear we need someone to take charge, and at best enforce the many immigration laws we have. We can start by respecting and endorsing the limited number we take in asylum yearly.
"The number of persons who may be admitted to the United States as refugees each year is established by the President in consultation with Congress. For fiscal year (FY) 2023, the ceiling remains set at 125,000."
Yet we have millions pouring in claiming asylum. The backlog of asylum seekers that are waiting for their court dates is ridiculous, and many just disappear into the country.
https://www.migrationpolicy.org/program … 125%2C000.I can't find any appreciable difference between the Trump immigration policy and the Biden policy. Actually title 42 is still going strong? I agree that Congress hasn't addressed the issue. We need 2 functioning parties that can come to the table in good faith. The Republican party really no longer functions beyond culture war issues, grievance and fearmongering.
You really don't see any difference?
Trump did not campaign on a promise to give citizenship to any illegal aliens that managed to avoid Border Patrol
Trump did not shut down deportation from the interior
Trump did not bus thousands of illegal aliens all over the country under the cover of darkness. Or at all.
Trump started the wall, Biden stopped it.
Biden has done all of these, except install a physical deterrent of some kind.
I could go on, but you get the idea. There is a vast difference between trying out best to keep illegal aliens from overrunning us and welcoming them with free transportation to the interior, where we promise not to deport them. One follows the oath of office, one violates it.What policies are different between Biden and Trump? I mean actual policy besides the wall. Congress hasn't come together on anything?
Trump did not shut down deportation from the interior
Trump did not bus thousands of illegal aliens all over the country under the cover of darkness. Or at all.
"a person that you hate and hope to see prosecuted," Please do not misquote me. And I'll thank you to keep your presumptions to yourself.
Shame on Tennessee. And I thought the Georgia legislature was shameless.
It is incredible what is happening in Tennessee. They kick out the 2 young black representatives but keep the white woman who was right along side of them? Incredible. I am very encouraged by the young people there coming out in large numbers each day to protest. The tide will turn.
2 black men politically lynched today in Tennessee.I saw this and I am appalled to read it, it is just more vindictive behavior from the Republicans' Reichstag. So, why was the white lady given a pass?
Expulsion is a little harsh when in Washington, Republicans issue death threats, interrupt the State of the Union address with foul mouth accusations. I say that the expulsion is harsh and it continues to indicate that racial tensions in America are far from over.
https://www.tennessean.com/story/news/p … 079929007/My hope is that this injustice provides the impetus to move Tennessee toward turing blue. I'm encouraged by the young people there. They don't want to live with the fear of being gunned down in their classrooms and they clearly saw the injustice today.
"Expulsion is a little harsh when in Washington, Republicans issue death threats, interrupt the State of the Union address with foul mouth accusations'
EXACTLY. 2 Reps expelled but I understand that video is against the rules on the floor of the state house also . So who took the video and where is the accountability?Was this racial or just procedural? Should we look deeper before considering this issue a racial? I mean if it wasn't, it certainly is being already labeled as racist.
As a rule, I don't jump in on race issues. However, did the woman's actions compare to the two men's? Did she have a megaphone, did she shout out and raise her voice? Did she even offer words? There are rules that legislators are meant to follow on the floor. The bystanders were using their right to free speech. I will admit I have not watched the actions of the three. I would think she did not become loud or disruptive. Do you have a link to the incident on the floor?
It seems odd if she had become disruptive that they did not treat her the same as the two others.
My own feelings --- I am for free speech, and legislators should have the right to use it on the floor of Congress, even if it is loud...
The woman was only saved by one vote and she said it was probably because of "the color of my skin."
Why the radical right is my biggest concern:
A study by the Armed Conflict Location & Event Data Project and Everytown for Gun Safety Support Fund found that, over the 18-month period from January 2020 through June 2021, there were 560 events where demonstrators brandished firearms, with violence erupting 16 percent of the time. The authors find that armed demonstrations are nearly six times as likely to turn violent than unarmed ones, and that the majority of armed demonstrations are driven by far-right mobilization and reactions to liberal and progressive activity.More about the Top Issues of Concern for Americans for 2023. Next, is a Pew Research study with polling about those. Publish date is Feb 6, 2023. The first topic looks at:
% who say ____ should be a top priority for the President and Congress should address. #1 is strengthening the economy. Are they doing anything about it now?
and . . .
There are eight graphics to view with a skim to get a grasp on the pulse of Americans for 2023. Have a peek and wonder what the media is reporting. Is it addressing America's concerns or as said are they implementing "Look here and not there"? Thanks, Sharlee!
Maybe that is why in the Statista Poll in the original OP #1 is Government/Poor Leadership?
Economy Remains the Public’s Top Policy Priority; COVID-19 Concerns Decline Again
Increased focus on deficit reduction; Republicans far more likely than Democrats to view it as a top priority
https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/20 … ine-again/IMO, Media has worked to pit us against one another, and at this point, we are all sunk in a huge pit.
Great source!
I think that pew research possibly shows what the majority of Americans are concerned with. Hopefully, these polls go to show in the end, we have similar concerns, in some cases, and maybe we should wonder why our media is not addressing our concerns.
The media is off the rails, and cover very little in regard to our concerns.
it's all political fodder, to guide the audience to look here not there. I mean at this point we truely are technically in a recession, but the media tells us we are not... I ask, what does your grocery bill tell you? What do your utility bills tell you? What does the cost of living tell you?
But, hey, no worry, Trump has been indicted, and more indictments are coming. So keep your eyes on the ball. And don't forget good old Hunter Biden, lots of great reports on this mischievous fellow.
Avert your view from the now proxy war we find ourselves in, or the great big Joeloon that floated over the country, Joe said no problem the ballon was stopped cold from gathering info -- but unfortunately, that was not true... Best not to delve into anything that touches on foreign affairs, or a congress that is not addressing ---- anything. How about education, maybe stay away from stats on that subject. And the deficit is not something to worry about. My, I could go on, and on and on.
I wonder if the earth will shake when the wall is lifted for one reason or another, and all see what has been tossed over that wall, and ignored to fester?We aren't technically in a recession. Most economists agree that we will see lower growth over 2033, a "soft landing" and then pick up in 24. According to any traditional definition of recession , we are not in one. The economy has certainly been resilient.
" Most economists agree that we will see lower growth over 2033, a "soft landing"
But some don't...
"According to a general definition of recession—two consecutive quarters of negative gross domestic product (GDP)—the U.S. entered into a recession in the summer of 2022."
https://www.reuters.com/markets/us/bank … 023-03-06/
And I tend to go with what I am encountering in my own costs to live. My costs have gone up substantially.Inflation rose 0.1% in March, less than expected.
Economists agree
"The inflation problem doesn’t get solved by itself—it needs higher unemployment to get there.”
Then people can start complaining that Biden is driving up unemployment.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/us-inflati … x-fa6eba99That seems fair enough - he caused the massive inflation which in turn caused the increasing unemployment.
The point is that employment remains at an all time high, which in my book is positive. But this along with record high jobs openings are fueling inflation. Sounds like a catch-22 to me.
As far as Biden causing inflation. I don't think it's as simple as pinning it on one person or one cause. The contributors to inflation were many. Biden had his part but l don't not ignore the other factors.My bad. I took your comment ("Then people can start complaining that Biden is driving up unemployment.") to refer to a future where we are fighting inflation, not to the present.
Yes, there were many factors. Primary of which was increasing demand by giving away money while at the same time reducing supply by shutting down businesses. And that was Biden's brilliant plan in operation - a classic recipe, know for decades - to cause inflation.
Yes, we just need to have inflation so we could lose jobs in the country.
The consumer price index rose 0.1% in March and 5% from a year ago.
Oh well, go figure.Inflation has historically had an inverse relationship with unemployment. When inflation rises, unemployment drops. Higher unemployment, on the other hand, equates to lower inflation.
It's basic economics. The 2 have always been tied. Not a new phenomenonThat's kind of my point. They are tied together - thus the comment that complaining Biden caused it was fair. He WAS the primary reason for the inflation, after all, and that is directly connected to unemployment.
????
Inflation has been a worldwide problem, initially caused by the pandemic and more recently by the war in Ukraine - so no government anywhere in the world, including Biden in America, is to blame.It was not caused by the pandemic. It was caused by politicians like Biden that distributed massive payments to people during the pandemic so that they could sit at home and not work.
The president of Brazil at that time warned the people here that this was going to happen and told them if they locked down they were going to pay for it later. The socialist governors disagreed with him and locked down most of the states.
Our inflation has not been as bad as the US, for the first time in modern history."It was not caused by the pandemic."
Do any reputable institutions or economists support this idea? The pandemic
created many supply and demand factors, which have caused inflation. As far as the stimulus payments in this country ( under Trump and Biden) it would be a mistake to claim inflation was only due to government spending. Other countries in Europe, without the same fiscal stimulus, have seen very similar rates of inflation.
Contributors to inflation numbers are multiple more complex than any political talking points or anti-Fed screeds.Yes, there are economists that support the idea. You will not find them reported on CNN or MSNBC however.
Yes, Trump made those stimulus payments too, and it cannot all be blamed on Biden. All he did was make sure that the amounts increased so that inflation would be even more of an issue.
Are there any reliable reputable institutions or economists that state that those countries that did not shut down are still suffering from inflation like those in the US or other lockdown countries?"Yes, there are economists that support the idea. You will not find them reported on CNN or MSNBC however."
Do you have Citations that support the claim that the pandemic was not a contributor to inflation ?It was not the pandemic. A vírus does not infect the economy. It was a disease of the human body. It was human intervention that changed the economy. If that not clear?
Denying the role of the pandemic on inflation isn't a position that is support by well regarded economists or financial institutions. I think we can confidently state it played a role among other factors.
What!
Doc, has a right to share his thoughts, I happen to agree with his comment. I happen to agree with his view on this matter.
I think you have the same right to share your thoughts. Not sure why you feel we all will agree with your view... Because it is clear some do not agree with your view on this subject.
Are we to assume your word needs to be the last word?"Not sure why you feel we all will agree with your view... "
I don't.
If I share a thought, opinion or citation, I certainly don't expect anyone to agree with it. I don't assume that when you share your views you expect I will agree either.
I don't maybe it's just me but I try not to assume personal motives from someone's written word.
This forum is getting awfully personal
"Are we to assume your word needs to be the last word?"
What? I've never claimed that it did. Jeez awfully tough to post anything here without being attackedThis very conversation shows you beating a long-dead horse.
Personal motive? Rude? please give an example.
Do you feel just because someone does not agree with you that they have a personal motive?
Faye --- your tell shows every time you come back with an alias.
You feel personally insulted if another does not agree with your view."You feel personally insulted if another does not agree with your view."
Quite an assumption.
My comment about rudeness was directed at the posts of a particular forum member. Those posts stands for themselves. I'm not revisiting them and I've said nothing about personal motivation .They must be using a VPN to register over and over like that.
Yep, I know how you feel; You should drop in on the forum "Climate Change: Let's Have a Fruitful Discussion", I've had exactly the same problem there.
Luke made a valid point; the pandemic did play a role on inflation (among other factors), and that is something that is supported by well regarded economists and financial institutions - So what's the problem?
Any support for that? What of the supply chain disruptions due to COVID?
Seriously? Do you not understand the relationship of a vírus that effects humans and the supply chain? The vírus did not male trucks sick. Sorry Colton but there is an obvious relationship between a vírus that makes some not able to Work and less Work.
Does anyone else here see any logic in this?
These responses are increasingly rude.The majority of a particular forum member's comments toward myself are consistently rude and condescending. I'd lay them out for you but I'd be banned. If you have a hunch and an inclination you can simply review the post activity over the last several days.
Would it make you feel better if I reference sources that you will not accept? I am trying to make this explanation as clear as possible for a person that does not accept basic science.
It is basic science that testosterone causes muscle mass increases, and if you declare trans after puberty you have benefitted from testosterone. I am sorry you feel that basic scientific facts are rude.
The issue was the pandemic causing global supply chain issue therefore contributing to inflation.
Walk away... You shared your view very clearly.
Yes, DrMark can be forceful. I’ve had many battles with him in the past, but he is not as obstinate (single minded) as some; there has been occasions where we have found common ground – which is always refreshing.
Do you think that virus had a printing press in the basement? Do you think a virus wrote the laws shutting down transportation facilities?
People did those things, not a virus. Biden's response was very ill considered, and we are paying the price for that ignorance now.
Can you find a single biologist that will claim a virus stood up on its hind legs and created inflation?
It was not the virus or the pandemic; it was our response to it. We did it ourselves, in the personage of Joe Biden and his ridiculous spending plans coupled with closing business down. A classic method of causing inflation is to increase demand while limiting supply; exactly what Biden did.I'll just leave this here
https://www.usbank.com/investing/financ … to%202022.
Did the pandemic change the economic landscape? Specifically in the manner it impacted supply chains?Once more, a virus did not impact supply chains. The actions of people did. The virus closed no highways, closed no shipping yards, laid off no people. People did those things.
Why is this so difficult to understand?Even if all of the states had chosen to remain open, how to you account for the effects of the total Chinese lockdowns that clogged supply chains and created bottlenecks for american business dependent on them?
Many economists believe
that China's zero-COVID policy has contributed to US inflation.Contributed, yes. Caused? No. There is zero doubt that the Chinese actions affected the US, but they were not a root cause and we could (and would) have been OK anyway. Until Biden's programs took effect, that is.
Why would you have been ok if it wasn't for Biden; most of the rest of the world wasn't ok, and that had nothing to do with Biden or the USA.
It's far more complex than that, and it was just Biden/Trump, it was the whole world that shut down production during the pandemic; including China - which caused the supply chain issues.
Whenever the Left has no answers, they ask for “citations” or “links.”
But they cannot offer up reputable sources outside of communication majors who are primarily twitter journalists from NPR or the BBC.No answers? What was the question I was asked? I asked for backing through links or citations for what another user was claiming
It was your question that was a problem, and no one could answer it... You seem to be asking For a source that Biden caused inflation 100%...
No one, I mean no one said that he did. In fact, we added other reasons for inflation other than JUST the pandemic. You might want to look at the conversation from the start to the end.
No one said Biden caused inflation 100%.
Myself, I found it an odd question out of place.
Unless I missed something.Clearly the more left leaning posters are attacked and punished here. I've kept a list of observations over the past year and the comments by right leaners were overwhelmingly in the form of personal attack, sarcasm, hyperbole and condescion. Often inferring lack of intelligence.
OMG! You kept a list! I bet there are no 'diverse, well-educated, and forward-thinking people' people on it. Oh hell, I bet I'm on it. Buggers.
GA ;-)If only. However, moderate conservatives are pure gold to the Progressive agenda. Congratulations.
If you are saying moderate conservatives are likely to support Progressive agendas, then I think you are mistaken. I think moderates are least likely to support the extreme agendas of either ideology. Whether it is a Progressive or Rightwinger one.
GAI disagree. Progressives have been infiltrating churches and targeting moderate Conservatives since the 1930’s with significant success. Today, the FBI is infiltrating Catholic services to discover which conservative among them is an enemy to our Republic. I recommend you research that.
Today, Progressives have convinced young girls that if they are unhappy during adolescence (which all children are) then they must be boys, and moderate conservative parents are easily led to believe that Progressives are telling them the truth. Meanwhile, these young girls are having surgeries which they ultimately regret. Many of these girls are suicidal. Did you know that? You might want to do some research.
Moderate conservatives are easy targets for Progressives. They praise Progressives, even on this site.
If you cared to, you could research this ugly movement. I would urge you to do so for the sake of our children and the next generation. If nothing else, understand how A-I is being used to undermine democracy and our freedoms.
There is plenty of information out there, if you care to research any of it one day.I guess the bot has also managed to make friends with Eso and N.ville.
"Today, the FBI is infiltrating Catholic services to discover which conservative among them is an enemy to our Republic."
What? How? Source?
Really? how? Yuck. Your comments are so disrespectful and so condescending for someone one who can almost never back up their postsNo worries, you can disagree. I think I'm fairly representative of moderate Conservatives and following the directions you offer (I think I'm familiar with the 'gist' of most of them, and your purpose in presenting them) isn't likely to change my perspective.
GAI don’t believe you understand my purpose.
However, if the perspective of moderate Conservatives remains the same, rest assured, the Progressives will remain in power forever, and this nation will implode from within.Are you satisfied with (and note I am not labeling) the current administration's ideologies or one might call it agenda?
As a moderate, where do you lean party-wise at this point?
Putting all the fluff fluff aside. I am very curious about how moderates are feeling today, right now.No, I am not satisfied with the current administration.
My party leanings? I'm mortally wounded Sharlee. After all this time, I thought my "leanings" were fairly clear: [C]conservative with a capital 'C'. You get to see how a moderate feels every time I respond.
GASame, regarding the Administration, probably less so than you.
The alternative seems to be shaping up to be Trump.
We have no good choices and no good resolution to the growing divides in our nation and these two are only going to make them worse.
There will be no peace in our nation with either of them leading the country, only more angst, anger, and a degradation of social order.Yep, 2024 isn't looking promising. However, my optimism thinks it is still possible for Trump to lose his base.
GAAgree with every word. Now the but --- the what if? What if we do if Trump is the guy? I have never sat it out, and I will admit I won't in 2024. I will vote Republican no matter who is the candidate. I have great fears if this current administration holds the White House.
Although we do not know how the Dems will end up with. I don't see that the Dems will switch gears and truely dig up a moderately intelligent, common-sense, moderate candidate.
I think this election is a real turning point for the Nation. Will we continue to respect our Constitution or will we lean more heavily into Socialism/ sort of communism?
Do you think I am making too much of the country's situation?I think if you take the time to read some of my old articles, written around 2018 or so, and modified in later years, you will have your answers as to what it going to occur and why.
The End of America
China's Social Credit will Shape the Future
The Rise of the International Capitalist State and the Return of Subjugation
Does America Want War with Russia?
China, Iran and the Coming War
[The title should have read China, Iran, Russia...]
Those 5 articles were written roughly 5 to 10 years ago and they are all coming to fruition today. They will give you a good idea of why the things are the way they are, and they address the country's situation... you won't like the truth, few people do.
Gus, nothing is wrong with being Conservative. Speak your truth.
Grace, He has spoken his truth, rather often. Gus has stated that he views Adam Kinzinger as a Conservative, and he is apparently aligned with K. in his contempt for Trump. He is proud of that.
Kinzinger accepted a job at CNN, although I do not know if he has survived the position.You got me on that one. I had to Google "K" to jog my memory. I see that he is a Republican Trump critic. It's probable I did say something good about him or an action of his, that I agreed with. It's not that I'm claiming amnesia, it's that exhibiting pride of association doesn't sound like me. Especially relative to a politician. I don't think I would have done that.
Your assertion seems confident, so jog my memory for me. I don't align with many politicians, so you may have misperceived something somewhere along the line.
GAI think I solved the puzzle --- Savy is referring to Kinzinger. She just abbreviated his name down to K.
Thanks, but I was using her shorthand. It was Kinzinger that I googled. I saw he was a Republican and a Trump critic. I don't recall any specific endorsements, but I probably did agree with something he said or did. somewhere, sometime.
GA
I will be honest, your comments don't really tell me a lot about what your thinking. Not to say you don't share, but sometimes I find your thoughts riddle within a riddle. Nothing wrong with that, keeps you very mysterious.........
I sort of thought you may have been a Conservative, leaning Independent.
Yep, I concur, absolutely
There are some on the right who can debate responsibly, without resulting to personal attack, sarcasm, hyperbole and be condescending; but there are most certainly others that are as you describe.
Yes, Biden came in like a wrecking ball and did the worst thing he could have --- poured tons of cash into the economy, and ultimately kept the country closed due to all his free cash. He has trashed America and much of the world in regard to the economy.
Biden did not trash America and much of the world in regard to the economy; the world doesn’t revolve around America.
The USA economy has little effect on the UK in that UK trade with the USA is only 12%, over 50% of the UK’s trade is with the EU.
The UK is perfectly capable of trashing its own economy without the USA’s help e.g. our last Prime Minister (Liz Truss) trashed the UK economy within days of coming into power; needless to say, the Conservative Party had the good sense to kick her out of power within six weeks, and replace her with a Prime Minster who has a far better grip on the economy.
What you say seems to be splitting hairs – yeah, of course it’s not the virus itself that caused the inflation; it’s because governments reaction to the pandemic, shutting down economies, in an effort to limit the spread of the virus and protect people that led to supply chain issues in the aftermath of the pandemic, which in itself let to inflation, caused by demand outstripping supply (due to supply chain issues).
In Feb 2020 (a month before the pandemic) inflation in the USA was only 2.3%. In the last two years inflation peaked at 9.1% in June 2022, and has fallen back to 6% in February 2023.
In Feb 2020 (a month before the pandemic) inflation in the UK was only 1.7%. In the last two years inflation peaked at 11.1% in October 2022, and has fallen back to 10.4% in February 2023.
So although the aftermath of the pandemic led to a rise in inflation due to supply chain issues, the problem has been exasperated by the war in Ukraine.
Besides, I don’t see how you can blame Biden for distributing massive payments to people during the pandemic to stay at home and not work when it was Trump and not Biden who was in power at the time!I dont know, maybe you do not remember the trillions that Biden spent ontop of his regular budget.
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/11/biden-1 … rnoon.html
It certainly outdid anything Trump tried.
I remember people angry at our government because the US was giving its people so much more to stay at home. The prices that went up as a result had an effect on the entire world.
It is called globalization, and even if you do not accept that his policies affect your country, they do.I do remember the $1.7 trillion that Biden spent on the Pandemic: Although it’s my turn to split hairs, it’s not ‘trillions’ as you said, it was $1.7 trillion.
In fact to put it into perspective, the $1.7 trillion Biden spent is actually in line with other countries, when you take population size into account e.g. per capita; for example:-
The UK spending was £344 billion ($430 billion); and with the USA population being 4.93 times larger than the UK’s population, if you multiply that $430 billion by 4.93 to derive at the per capita comparison, the UK’s comparable spending on the pandemic works out to be $2.12 trillion e.g. a greater sum per capita spent in the UK on the pandemic than in the USA.
In the UK people were paid 80% of their normal earnings by the UK Government to stay at home and not work during the pandemic, including the self-employed. And at the time it didn’t affect the prices, all it did was to ensure that people had income to pay their essential bills e.g. heating, electricity, food, rent, mortgage etc. It wasn’t until after the pandemic ended, when people started to go back to work, and started spending again, that demand out stripped supply, and that was primarily due to supply chain issues e.g. not just getting the factories back to full production, but also getting the container ships in the right place at the right time, and flowing again.
Yeah, world trade is a major part of globalisation, but the USA does not hog world trade e.g. there is very little we import into the UK from the USA. In fact the only food item we buy in my household that comes from the USA is just the baked beans; all other food that we put on our table comes from other countries like Brazil, Africa and the EU and or what is grown in the UK. Of all other goods we buy in my household, including clothes and electrical items etc., apart from two exceptions, none of it comes from the USA; most of it either comes from the EU, China or is made in Britain. The only two items I’ve ever bought that was made in the USA was an air-vent and a music CD.
So no, inflation in the USA does not have as big an impact on the entire world as many Americans seem to think. The UK’s trade with the USA is only 12%, with China 8%, and with the EU over 50%.
If anything, world events have more impact on the American economy than America has on world events.You are ignoring a very basic fact. Even if you do not purchase a product from the US, a product that you want to purchase that is purchased by a consumer from the US effects you.
For example, you want to buy a kilo of wheat flour that was imported from Ukraine. Before you purchase your flour, the US signs a deal and buys half of Ukraines wheat production for the year. That affects the price which you are paying for your wheat flour.
So yes, inflation in the US doe have a big impact in prices elsewhere.
The whole point of globalization is that we are now linked. Things that take place in the US and Chinese economy do provoke the "butterfly effect" and make the prices here and there different.85% of the wheat used in Britain is grown in Britain, only 15% is imported, and only 1.5% is from Ukraine. So the wheat example isn’t a particularly good one.
However, I do get the point; I’m not “ignoring a very basic fact”; yeah, we are in a global market, and trade worldwide is linked, and events and things, and the like, can does cause the ‘butterfly effect’. But the point I ‘m trying to make is that the USA is not the centre of the global market, it is only a part of it; albeit in some areas it has a bigger impact, but in other areas of commerce the impact in America is all but a small ripple (insignificant) in the EU & UK.Are 85% of electronics used in the UK produced in the UK? Vegetables, fruit, French cheese, etc? The wheat was an example to illustrate globalism.
I disagree that it is insignificant. You will not see the effects of globalism on the fruit from your backyard but it does effect everything else.What are to trying to say, that the vast bulk of electronics, vegetables, fruit, French cheese etc. are all made in the USA or that the USA hogs the markets for itself – I don’t think so.
Most of the UK’s electronics are imported from either the EU or China or made in Britain. The top three manufacturers of electrical and electronic equipment is NOT the USA, it’s China, Taiwan and India; and even Germany manufactures more electronic equipment than the USA. In fact, when we want quality over price, which sometimes we do when purchasing electric goods we choose to buy products manufactured either in Germany, Japan or Britain.
I don’t think the USA market has much influence over the price of French cheese, apart from which most cheese sold in the UK is made in Britain anyway e.g. Cheddar Cheese, Stilton, Caerphilly, Cheshire, Lancashire and Leicester, just to name a few of the hundreds of British chesses.
Britain grows two thirds of its own vegetables, and the bulk of the rest are imported from the EU; but fruit is a different matter as we don’t have the climate for a wide range of fruits, so most of our fruit is imported from more exotics hotter climates.
As I said before, the USA is NOT the centre of the global market; it’s only a part of it – so it’s influence on the world market is NOT as great as many Americans believe.
And for clarity, if you re-read what I previously said, I did not say that in all things the USA’s impact on world commerce was insignificant; I said that in some areas of commerce the impact in America is all but a small ripple in the EU & UK. I’ve copied that text again below, so you can see that I stated ‘some areas’ e.g. some is NOT all:-
* But the point I‘m trying to make is that the USA is not the centre of the global market, it is only a part of it; albeit in some areas it has a bigger impact, but in other areas of commerce the impact in America is all but a small ripple (insignificant) in the EU & UK.I am not sure if you are trying to be pedantic or do not understand what I am saying. The reason I put French cheese in there is because it is obviously NOT produced in the US. If a person from the US comes along and purchases most of the production of the cheese, however, and you are trying to purchase what is left, that price is going to be higher than it was when 100% of the production was available.
That is why the prices of scare resources are higher than resources that are available in great quantities.
The entire point is that the USA is part of the global market. I did not say that the US is the center of the global market, but things that take place in the US also have an effect on your prices. What the US and China and the EU does has an effect on your inflation, whether or not you want to accept it.Duh - Supply & Demand. But that wasn’t the point I was trying to make, the point I was trying to make is that the USA does NOT have such a big impact on the rest of the world as many Americans seem to think.
Yeah, I know the USA is a part of the global market; but that doesn’t mean that everything that takes place in the USA has an effect on inflation in the UK – Taking French cheese as an example:-
Only 5.03% of French cheese is exported to the USA; a small share of the total French cheese market, so if for some reason the USA doubled their import of French cheese (which I doubt), if supply can’t keep up with demand, then the price of French cheese would go up slightly – But the impact that would have on inflation in France would be minimal because cheese is only a small part of the ‘price basket’ that inflation is calculated on. And it would have virtually no impact on the British market because most cheese sold in Britain is British made anyway.
It would be a different matter if a large percentage of French cheese was bought by the USA, then a fluctuating market in the USA, where Americans bought more French Cheese, or less French cheese (at short notice) could cause a glut or shortage of French cheese on the world market, which would have an impact on the price of French cheese – but even then, fluctuating prices in one product, in itself will have little effect on inflation; it’s only when price rises occur across the board (in most all items in the basket used to measure inflation) that it has a significant effect on inflation. But with France exporting just 5.03% of their cheese to the USA, fluctuations in the sale of French cheese in the USA is going to have little effect on the French economy, let alone the British economy.
UK Inflation basket sees e-bikes and frozen berries brought in to reflect spending habits, while CDs, spirits and compact cameras have been removed from the 'inflation basket': https://youtu.be/Js-vY6EvDtk?t=45
Besides, Americans pay a lot more for French cheese than the French do because of the American tariffs imposed on the import of French Cheese, which in 2019 Trump put up to 100% tariff on French Cheese e.g. Americans were paying twice as much for French cheese than the French paid. In Jan 2023 Biden reduced that tariff to 25%, so in short American’s are currently pay 25% more for French Cheese than the French.
I think the problem is, is that this issue is 50 shades of grey, and you are trying to make it a black and white issue.It is an example to illustrate a point. The fact that not much cheese is purchased by the US and even less is consumed by the UK does not change the fact that globalism effects supplies and thus prices and thus inflation. I thought as a person who claims to understand economics that would be obvious and you would not try to deflect with cheese issues.
There are some who reject any nuance within any discussion…
To a certain extent, they are like disciples, who only understand duck-speech and newspeak, which is quite the complicated feat.
They are loyal to their agenda of increased government, come hell or high water.
They honestly believe China should be lauded for their environmental “achievements,” that Greta Thunberg is a genius, and that 97% of kids, with or without gender dysphoria, have no regret about transitioning their sex medically, thus rendering them unable to experience the pleasure of sex or the joy of childbirth… to name only a few of the many tragic problems that unnecessary surgery and medications have on the young…
Above all, they love their word salad. It makes them feel knowledgeable, I guess.
Everyone wishes they would “get a life” and maybe do more gardening… or anything else besides posting faulty info that is absurdly narrow in its scope.
Annoying as hell. But, such is social media.Yeah, we agree that globalism effects supplies and thus prices and thus inflation; to a point.
But that wasn’t the original point. The original point was that many Americans think the USA’s economy has a direct major impact on the rest of the world – but it doesn’t.
What happens in the USA can and sometimes does have a major impact on the rest of the world e.g. the Wall Street Crash in the 1930s and the financial crisis in 2008; but it doesn’t always follow e.g. the collapse of Silicon Valley Bank (SVB) in America recently, caused major waves in the USA, but it had no impact in the UK. And if the American economy does so badly as to reduce the value of the $ against other currencies, which might for example be caused by the President of the USA introducing economic change that causes hyperinflation in the USA (as an example) then; because the $ is devalued against other currencies, anything we in the UK buy from the USA, such as baked beans, suddenly become cheaper in the UK.
Your statement is too simplified in that although globalism affects supplies, unless it’s something like the issues with the container ships (supply chain issues) in the aftermath of the pandemic, not all supplies across the board are going to be affected simultaneously.
For example, prolonged supply shortages of cocoa beans from Brazil would cause the price of chocolate in the UK to rise, but it wouldn’t affect any other product sold in the UK, and chocolate is just 1 of 138 food and non-alcoholic beverages that are used to measure inflation in the UK – and food and non-alcoholic beverages is weighted at just 24% of the entire Consumer price inflation basket of goods and services – So even if the price of chocolate doubled (or even tripled) in the UK, because of shortages of cocoa in Brazil, it’s overall effect on inflation in the UK would hardly be measurable.
A full list of the categories in the UK’s Consumer price inflation basket of goods and services, and the percentage weighting for each category is given below:-
• Food & non-alcoholic beverages = 24%
• Recreation & culture = 17%
• Clothing & footwear = 12%
• Furniture & household goods = 10%
• Miscellaneous goods & services = 10%
• Transport = 7%
• Restaurants & hotels = 6%
• Alcohol & tobacco = 4%
• Housing & household services = 4%
• Health = 3%
• Communication = 2%
• Education = 1%"U.K. inflation unexpectedly jumped in February, as food and energy bills continued to rise, placing further pressure on households.
The consumer price index (CPI) increased by an annual 10.4%, above the 9.9% consensus forecast among economists in a Refinitiv poll and up from 10.1% in January. On a monthly basis, CPI inflation was 1.1%, exceeding a forecast of 0.6%.
“The largest upward contributions to the monthly change in both the CPIH and CPI rates came from restaurants and cafes, food, and clothing, partially offset by downward contributions from recreational and cultural goods and services (particularly recording media), and motor fuels,” the U.K. Office for National Statistics said.
The Consumer Prices Index including owner occupiers’ housing costs (CPIH) rose by 9.2% in the 12 months to February 2023, up from 8.8% in January.
The surprise increase in February marked a break from three consecutive months of slowing price increases since the 41-year high of 11.1% reached in October.
British households continue to contend with high food and energy bills, while workers across a range of sectors have launched mass strike action in recent months amid disputes over pay and conditions."
What do you attribute this high inflation (and rising) to in the UK?
What do the people feel caused your high inflation?
https://www.google.com/search?q=chart+u … DJUDr-J7QM
US inflation Rate
Inflation rate and Federal Reserve interest rate monthly in the United States from January 2018 to February 2023
July 2022 9% to current Basic Info. US Inflation Rate is at 4.98%, compared to 6.04% last month and 8.54% last year. This is higher than the long term average of 3.28%.
https://ycharts.com/indicators/us_infla … 203.28%25.
Why do you think the UK is having a difficult time bringing inflation down?
It does appear you made your point about the UK not necessarily following the US economy. Are has rebound form being in the 9% to what it is today.Good questions that you’ve asked:
• What do you attribute this high inflation (and rising) to in the UK?
• What do the people feel caused your high inflation?
In answer to your first point; there are four main causes of the current hyperinflation in the UK; detailed as follows:-
• Pandemic (aftermath – supply chain issues)
• Brexit
• War in Ukraine (causing world shortage of natural gas, as Russian cuts off supplies to Germany).
• Last Prime Minister - who was kicked out of Office by her own Political party within just six weeks of coming to power, because she so dramatically crashed the UK economy within days of taking power as Prime Minister.
1. In the aftermath of the pandemic there was worldwide supply chain issues, partly caused because it took time to get production back up to speed following the close-down of economies across the world; and partly caused by shipping containers and container ships being in the wrong places at the wrong time (causing long delays as the logistics of that was being sorted), and the pursuing logjams (bottlenecks) in sea ports around the world as containers ships all arrived at ports at the same time, trying to unload their goods.
2. Brexit: With Brexit the UK is no longer part of the EU, so not only is there delays in getting goods across the border (customs & Excise) that didn’t previously exist between the UK and mainland Europe, but also the added legal and administration costs of border control paperwork that didn’t previously exist; plus the introduction of tariffs e.g. previously being part of the EU, there was no border, and there was no tariffs; but now tariffs has to be paid on everything imported from the EU – all of which adds to the cost of goods imported from the EU, which is significant in that around 50% of the UK’s imports come from the EU.
Another added cost of Brexit is a shortage of lorry drivers, further disrupting the supply chains e.g. a significant percentage of lorry (truck) drivers in the UK were from the EU; but because of Brexit (tight immigrations laws, imposed by the Conservative Government since Brexit) many of the EU lorry drivers have returned to mainland Europe, leaving a chronic shortage of drivers in the UK; and for the same reason there is a chronic shortage of labour in all industrial and commercial sectors across the UK economy, and with low unemployment there isn’t enough British people to fill those vacancies – all of which adds to costs and inflation.
3. War in Ukraine: The war in Ukraine has led to a chronic shortage of natural gas on the world market, causing massive price rise of natural gas on the world market e.g. Russia has cut off its supply of natural gas to Germany.
Although Britain gets about 50% of its natural gas from the British oil fields off the north sea coast, and most of the rest from Norway; the price of natural gas in Britain is pegged to the world market price – which meant that at its peak in price last autumn natural gas in Britain was 9 times more expensive than Renewable Energy (wind power).
Although (at this time) only a third of the UK’s electricity comes from fossil fuels (natural gas), with natural gas currently being so expensive, it’s pushed up the cost of electricity in the UK by more than double; and as electricity is used by ‘all’ domestic and industry, manufacturing and production costs, and costs of running services have all had to go up, because electricity is far more expensive.
Likewise, natural gas is currently used for heating domestic homes in the UK (although that is being phased out by 2035), so with the dramatic increase in natural gas the cost to heat homes this winter more than doubled – it would have been a lot higher if it wasn’t for the UK Conservative Government stepping in and imposing a windfall tax on the British oil and gas companies e.g. the British oil and gas companies are currently paying 75% in tax on their net profit; and the UK Government has been using that extra tax Revenue to give to the Utility Companies (electricity companies that supply the electricity to the homes) specifically to keep the cost of electricity to the domestic homes from not rising any further (by capping the price), while at the same time ensuring the Utility Companies don’t go bankrupt (to avoid the mistake the Government made the previous winter).
4. Our previous Conservative Prime Minister (Lis Truss) crashed to UK economy within days of coming to power last September e.g. her economic policies caused the international monetary market (which includes a lot of foreign private investors) to lose confidence in the British economy to such an extent that there was a panic wholesale selling of ‘UK Government Bonds’, putting a number of major UK pensions funds (who used Government Bonds as a safe investment) at risk of becoming insolvent; and for the first time in its history (modern history) the value of the £ almost reached parity with the $, which if sustained for any length of time would have quickly pushed the British economy into deep recession.
The Bank of England stepped in and propped up the UK Government Bonds long enough to allow UK pensions funds to sell UK Government Bonds to the Bank of England, and re-invest elsewhere.
Needless to say, the Conservative Party kicked Lis Truss out of Office within six weeks, and replaced her with another Prime Minster who has a better handle on the economy. Our new Prime Minister (Rishi Sunak, of Indian origin, and the UK’s first Hindu Prime Minister) has reversed a lot of the damage that Lis Truss did to the economy; but with that, and all the other problems, there is still a lot to do, and not enough time to win back the support of the voting public e.g. the next General Election is only 18 months away.
Your 2nd question “What do the people feel caused your high inflation?” – Obviously it depends who you speak to e.g. most people who keep tabs on the news will be aware of all the points I’ve covered above; while those who are generally less well educated and or people with blinkered views, and who often have short memories when it comes to current affairs, will generally only be aware of the current headline news; which at the moment is predominately the fuel crisis caused by the world shortage of natural gas, due to the war in Ukraine. Although Brexit does keep popping up its ugly head in the news periodically (with the Conservatives always trying to dismiss it as the cause to problems) e.g. the recent 16 hour long queues at the sea ports for holiday makers – And I’m sure the way Liz Truss so dramatically trashed the British economy in just days will stick in the minds of many for a while yet.
To truly know how the British people feel about particular matters, one good source is the YouGov opinion polls; they have a proven track record of consistently being accurate to within 2% error of margin.
The nearest recent YouGov opinion poll to the question you ask, that I can find, is this one: - https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/ar … ound-goverThank you I feel much more informed, thanks for answering my questions.
It's hard to really keep up with what one should know to comment on another country's issues.Thanks, I agree - I often find a lot of American current affairs difficult to follow and understand from across the pond.
Thank you for what? How are you impressed with someone's continuous cut & paste show?
This is a guy who agrees with everyone here who has been banned."This is a guy who agrees with everyone here who has been banned".
What does that have to do with anything?
You are one of the least informed posters here. Never any legitimate backing for anything you write. You're condescending and rude.
And you deserve a banning. more than ANYONE.Um
Yeah. This forum has moderation that leans so far right it's sick. Savvy and a few others are constantly on the personal attack with rude and personal posts yet never get banned?I've gotten banned plenty of times
If anything it leans left ... being based in the state of Washington and all ...You're still posting. The bans on the left here are PERMANENT. And for nothing more than expressing views. Views that the right can't tolerate and want out of sight. They can't ever answer the legitimate questions posed so they whine to the sympathetic moderation here who bans all opposition even though the right wingers are SO much more egregious in their posts. Look at Dr. Mark and savvy.
I know that they try, but I am not an easy target to zero in on. But, if they could......
You're golden here. Keep it up. Question them at every turn. Hold them to account. The moderation here is SO biased. But don't question it. Don't engage with certain people at all.
Talk around them. Over them.
Above them.You just gotta know when to hold and when to fold 'em....
I will keep the cauldron churning and will not let you down.Cred is a man that holds his ideals, and his values above all. He is open to conversation and respects others' spaces without giving up his own.
He does engage, he does admit if he feels he might be wrong,
and above all, he is heard. He need not say it twice, because he is respected. He shares he communicates.Thanks, Sharlee, I am touched by that revelation....
When they ban you Credence, permanently that is, then these Forums will have passed the point of being worth visiting. You are one of the most engaging contributors to these forums.
None of us have escaped being banned. Some of us just don't learn to keep it civil and do not:
A) Insult others... repeatedly.
B) Chase other posters around to other threads just to poo-poo all their comments.
C) Make tripe poo-pooing of whatever they don't agree with, bringing nothing to the conversation(s) relevant.Ahh. It's gotten more insidious than than. I have the screenshots.
You have a misunderstanding of what this forum is about.
It isn't about rightwing or censorship.
It isn't about you... this is not the only thread where you devolve the conversation to being about how you were banned... how about you just move on from it, and express your points about the given topic?"how about you just move on from it, and express your points about the given topic?"
Ah yes and then be banned ...as has happened. You're not understanding the dynamics here. Your folks are allowed to be rude, condescending and presumptuous. The other side? BANNED. I have the backup. Users here wouldn't be surprisedDo you think this is a bot or just someone trolling? I am staying clear of this person.
OMG! Again! You have lists and screenshots? How about CIs and hot-mic recordings? I bet you have those too.
GA ;-oThere certainly is a forum moderation issue here. There are some toxic posters who think they're victims. When any piece of info is posted that conflicts with their rigid views they get up on their pedestal and dish out the insults. And then the run to whine to moderators how they've been attacked. It's laughable.
"There are some toxic posters who think they're victims."
Ironic.Kind of reminds me of a few years ago when a certain lady (term used loosely) here got angry because she didn't win one of the popularity prizes and couldn't seem to earn much of anything. Then she decide the moderation was unfair (sound familiar?) as well and became downright nasty, sending at least one person off the forums in tears.
Communicating via email, I tried to help her learn some basic SEO and the story came out; she was deliberately trying to get banned, to see just how long it took. Sounds much like a "research account" to me.Deleted
And Friends; researchaccount is very astute.
"Chase other posters around to other threads just to poo-poo all their comments."
LMFAO are you serious?? Don't come on a forum then if you don't expect a hard challenge. God save your comments from the poo-poo. If your comments deserve to be shit on them so be it
Have you seen other forums?? LolHubpages isn't other forums, which is why those of us who contribute our thoughts here continue to do so.
Those who want to turn it into a place where they can "shit on" other people's comments...
Well, that is why I like the idea of not banning those folks, so I can just ignore them.
It would be nice to have an ability to block them from view... and we used to have the ability to edit our article's comment section, removing all posts we did not want there.... but simply ignoring a poster works.Deleted
It is demonstratably not highly partisan:
https://hubpages.com/politics/forum/354 … in-america
https://hubpages.com/politics/forum/352 … ent-a-coup
You're one of the good ones. And, yes, I can be nasty at times but I am nice about it. It is never personal.
You make good arguments that support your position.
Insulting others only agitates them, respecting others allows you to reach them with logic and reason, if they are open to it.
A forum is where words need to be used to convey information, it is an artform.... somedays the paintbrush strokes a masterpiece, other days it lacks inspiration and it shows in the work.
You have painted a few masterpieces over the years, with typed words that made me reassess my opinions, perceptions or beliefs. That is what I believe these forums are meant for.
Its comments like this, where you are insulting other posters, that probably gets you banned.
Not that it seems to keep you from creating a new account and starting antagonizing others right where you left off.
Personally, I would rather people not get banned, so that they are easier to identify and then be ignored if I considered them offensive.
There is more than one person I do not discuss things with here, because there is nothing but insults from them if you don't see things their way... no matter how much information you can muster to counter their points.
If you prove to be one of those people, I would just ignore you as well, so I'd rather you not get banned, so I can know it is you, and ignore your posts.Well you have very right-wing forum here. You have 2 - 3 posters here on the far right that get people banned. They are savvy, Dr. Mark and sharlee
They insult.
Are rude.
Make presumptions and generally don't answer hard posts asking them to present any support for their accusations. Just the facts. I've never been rude or Condescending. I've been personally attacked MULTIPLE times. They make assumptions based on my posts. They assume my thoughts and motivations. It's weird really. But forum moderation favors it. No doubt. Just look at the rude things these posters have written? It's all there.
To be accurate, Germany has cut off its supply of natural gas to Germany.
Germany said it was halting certification of the Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline following Moscow’s actions in eastern Ukraine on Monday. The Nord Stream 2 pipeline is on the scrap heap because of the Ukraine crisis.
https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/22/business … %20crisis.
Germany Stopping All Russian Oil Imports By End Of 2022, Foreign Minister Says
https://www.forbes.com/sites/dereksaul/ … 59d9e432aaTo be even more accurate, the US cut off Germanys supply of natural gas by destroying that pipeline.
This is what we know regarding the sabotage of Nord Stream 1 and 2.
Denmark, Germany and Sweden told the UN Security Council in a joint letter that the "Russian authorities have been informed regarding the ongoing investigations" by their national authorities, which had so far established that the damage to the pipelines was caused by "powerful explosions due to sabotage."
Moscow has maintained that the West was behind the blasts affecting the Nord Stream 1 and 2 pipelines - multibillion-dollar infrastructure projects that carried Russian gas to Germany.
"There is no doubt about the motive of the crime, nor its perpetrator, nor the way in which the crime was committed," Russia's UN Ambassador Vasily Nebenzya told the Security Council, according to RIA news agency.
STOCKHOLM, Nov 18, 2022 (Reuters) - Investigators have found traces of explosives at the site of the damaged Nord Stream gas pipelines, confirming sabotage had taken place, a Swedish prosecutor said on Friday.
The Swedish Prosecution Authority said in a statement, adding that the findings establish the incident as "gross sabotage".
The prosecutor's office declined to give further comment, including on which explosives were believed to have been used to damage the pipelines.
Russia will wait until a full damage assessment is done before deciding on repairs, if any, Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said on Friday.
"The very fact that data has already begun to come in, in favour of confirming a subversive act or a terrorist act... once again confirms the information that the Russian side has," Peskov told his daily call with reporters.
"It is very important not to stop, it is very important to find the one behind this explosion."
The only thing these investigations seem to have concluded to date is that the Russians weren't the perpetrators of the crime.
To be pedantic It’s a bit tit for tat:-
Yes Germany halted certification of the Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline at the start of the war, and yes Germany stopped imports of all Russian oil in Jan 2023.
Notwithstanding sabotage on the Nord Stream pipelines, perpetrators unknown but the USA now believes a pro-Ukrainian group are responsible?
• In June 2022 Russia cut deliveries of natural gas through the Nord Stream 1 pipeline by 75%
• In July 2022 Russia shut down Nord Stream 1 for 10 days.
• In late August 2022 Russia shut down Nord Stream 1 entirely.
No virus reared up and created inflation. Our response to that virus did cause it however, and that primarily came from Biden's huge spending plan. Yes, much of the rest of the world followed suit, but without Biden the US would not have the problems it does. At least not at the level we are experiencing, and I would rather think neither would the rest of the world.
Yes, Europe went on the same spending spree, but without the US leading the way I think their inflation would be lower as well.Am I correctly reading that you feel Biden is 100% to blame for inflation and there are no other contributing factors?
That is what they always say Luke. It is very convenient but never really true.
Use the force and ignore the farce, Luke!Good advice. It's frustrating that some won't take into account a larger picture of the multiple forces that can impact an issue. And it's all to maintain a rigid ideological view. They can't even bring themselves to acknowledge balid points that conflict with that ideology. I guess they feel it's giving up ground.
But what kind of ideology encourages such blinders?The right winger is world renown for anti-intellectualism and his distrust of learned and educated sources. Educated and inquiring people are difficult to render docile and indifferent to the outrage.
Have you been checking out the latest attacks on Public libraries by Republican legislatures? But, It is best addressed in another thread.
I say let's plant our charges and quickly move away from the "Death Star".
I like your new icon.
Would I be correct in sumising that you feel Biden created inflation completely on his own and is 100% to blame with no other factors in the country or globally contributing?
It’s also worth noting that presidents themselves cannot shut down the country. The pandemic restrictions governing people’s movements and the operations of businesses and other entities have were imposed by state and local officials, not Trump or BidenI have been so clear. You just won't accept I don't agree with you. I feel the biggest part falls on Biden. As I said I could write a book.
Hopefully, you understand we do not agree on this subject. I don't want to be rude, but I think I have shared my views, and I have nothing else to add. You have shared your thoughts, as I have. I think we are beating a dead horse.Where you said in an earlier post to Luke “….Biden should have moved to bring the workforce back, instead of keeping our economy closed….”
It’s not that simple, most every country around the world was facing similar problems, including the UK and China. You can’t just click your fingers and everybody’s back to full production, and all the container ships and containers are all strategically placed around the world to resume supplying goods (a critical part of the supply chain).
As people started to go back to work, and started to spend again, not only does it take time to get production back to full speed, but more often than not the goods people around the world wanted to buy were stuck in ports waiting for empty containers to be shipped in, or stuck in long queues in bottlenecks as ships tried to delivery containers to over busy ports etc.
At that time we had no end of shortages of goods in British shops due to the container crisis, as was the case around the world, including the USA.
Decoding the Supply Chain Crisis and the Everything Shortage: https://youtu.be/LiH-SuDhOyU
There were indeed contributing factors. Which we could have overcome...until Biden injected trillions of dollars into the economy (increasing demand), while simultaneously shutting down production and transportation (decreasing supply).
That is how a lot of American's seem to think; they seem to think the whole world revolves around America, and very simplistically blame Biden fro everything because he's not their politics.
You seem to be splitting hairs – yeah, of course it’s not the virus itself that caused the inflation; it’s because governments reaction to the pandemic, shutting down economies, in an effort to limit the spread of the virus and protect people that led to supply chain issues in the aftermath of the pandemic, which in itself led to inflation, caused by demand outstripping supply (due to supply chain issues). And during the pandemic it wasn’t Biden, it was Trump who was in power.
No, the rest of the world did NOT follow suit; the world does NOT revolve around the USA. FYI many counties, like Greece were the first countries to shut down their economies during the pandemic, the UK followed suit a few weeks later and the USA followed suit, about a week behind the UK.
Again, you state “…but without Biden the US would not have the problems it does….” as if Biden ruled the world; but he doesn’t – the world does not revolve around the USA.
The UK is perfectly capable of trashing its own economy without the USA’s help e.g. our last Prime Minister (Liz Truss) trashed the UK economy within days of coming into power last September (Sep 2022); needless to say, the Conservative Party had the good sense to kick her out of power within six weeks, and replace her in Oct 2022 with a Prime Minster who has a far better grip on the economy.
The USA economy has little effect on the UK in that UK trade with the USA is only 12%, over 50% of the UK’s trade is with the EU.
And FYI, if you think your inflation has been bad, you ought to count yourself lucky; other countries like the UK has suffered far worse:-
• In Feb 2020 (a month before the pandemic) inflation in the USA was only 2.3%. In the last two years inflation peaked at 9.1% in June 2022, and has fallen back to 6% in February 2023.
• In Feb 2020 (a month before the pandemic) inflation in the UK was only 1.7%. In the last two years inflation peaked at 11.1% in October 2022, and has fallen back to 10.4% in February 2023.
There seems to be a strong reach on this forum to simplify complex issues . To conclusively pinpoint blame on one person or one one factor while discounting all other factors that contribute to an outcome.
This forum encouraged open conversation and sharing of views.
We may be dealing with another bot or someone who was banned, and is here under another name.
In time, HP will look at their IP address and ban them again, if that is the case.
… Same as they did with two others that appeared out of nowhere, but sounded the same as all the others.Yes, it appears this person is hell-bent on posting here. Maybe they should try to respect others' views and fit in. Could be a bot, because HP does keep banning. Not sure, I do see a human "tell".
I've watched this forum for over a year in the interest of academic research. This person never disrespected anyone here. The same can't be said of many of the rest here. Many on the "right" here become very incensed by the presentation of facts countering their statements and go on the attack with no supporting evidence. They often deflect and attempt to make their case built on false equivalence or other logical fallacies. It has been very evident on this forum, moreso than others, that posters make erroneous assumptions about the posts of others. Often assuming thoughts and motives that clearly haven't been expressed.
Yep. Good observation, and well summarised
Surely you weren't expecting otherwise?
GAOn no you don't ... What do you mean by your five words? What are you implying?
What else should anyone expect when entering any political forum for discussions? Choir rooms and Fan clubs have their own safe places.
You've been sounding defensive lately. Did you think I was implying something a little more specific?
GAI did think you meant something very different. That's why I asked for a bit more about your context. You are very perceptive, this I like... I have become defensive, (maybe even bitchy) hence why I stopped in my tracks and asked what you hoped to express.
I think your opening sentiment rings true.
I think they are useful. Not tiresome at all. They carry a message beyond the details of that oversimplification. Sometimes that message is more pertinent than the details.
GAWhat is that message? That we move from point A to B but how we've gotten there is irrelevant?
My point is the opposite of irrelevant. How we get there is the most relevant point.
Consider the conservatives' use of 'CRT' or 'Woke.' They are almost always oversimplifications, but they are instantly recognizable as a perspective on the movement from A to B. That gives you a head start on the conversation. It tells you the discussion is about the hair of the dog, not the dog. (the details of the issue, not the issue)
GA
Yep, I totally agree. Hardly anything is ever black and white, it's almost always 50 shades of grey.
Thank you for the support. I've enjoyed reading your posts. They're always well thought out and sourced. I appreciate the international perspective. Our American right wing media tends to really encourage the rigid, myopic views. They siphon down any issue to an overly simplistic result. It's a dumbing down of the issue.
I have noticed that there is a tendency in many people, and certainly in groups as a whole, to avoid, ignore, or trivialize complex and difficult issues by placing focus on issues that are similar and consequently much easier to discuss.
I lean toward believing media does this intentionally. They don't think their audience is able to grasp complexity. Or maybe just the fact that shades of grey don't rile up the base enough.Thanks for your feedback. Yes we have newspapers in Britain (across the political spectrum) that dumbs down and sensationalise the news for the less well educated who don’t want to read anything complex, and who don’t want to think e.g. The Sun (Conservative) & The Mirror (Labour/Socialist), these papers are very political (partisan) and their target audience are the lower working classes; and of course the Mail that is famous for ‘fake news’, to the point that it’s banned from being used in Wikipedia as a reference source.
Fortunately however, we do also have ‘quality’ newspapers in Britain (across the political spectrum) who prides themselves on ‘fact checking’, and who’s target audience are the well-educated; these papers do in-depth, and often balanced, reporting – which means that even the Conservative supporting newspapers can write critical articles about the Conservative Government, or even supportive articles about Labour - when it’s deserving. So they can be a good source of information; their target audience is the upper working class and middle classes, and they include:-
• The Guardian (Labour/Socialist)
• The Independent (apolitical)
• The Telegraph (Conservative)
• The Times (Conservative)
TV in the UK is slightly different to the newspapers in that in the UK newspapers have ‘the freedom of the press’, whereas TV is heavily ‘Regulated’ to ensure “due impartiality and due accuracy”.
Just tossing out from the Committee of Oversight their press release on Mar 10, 2023. It is titled; Hearing Wrap Up: Biden Admin Ignored Warnings that Trillions in Spending Would Damage the Economy and Spur Inflation. Take it for what it is.
https://oversight.house.gov/release/hea … %EF%BF%BC/Biden was well warned. He ignored advice or at least the advice of the experts. Thank you for the link, it clearly offers an accurate picture of what happened, and that Biden made the decisions that brought about inflation.
Biden and his Administration have ignored, as well as denied, and blamed inflation on other various variables. The damage he has done to the economy has affected us for far too long. The sad part is, it most likely will become worse.
Your link is excellent.Most well regarded economists pin rising prices on three general causes: increases in household demand and supply-chain shortages due to the pandemic, the war in Ukraine and the presence of a strong labor market.
Generally, the story goes something like this: At the start of the pandemic, consumers began spending less because of stayes deciding to lockdown, and in turn, started saving more. Then, when Covid restrictions eased, people started spending more again. Companies, however, couldn’t keep up with this increased consumer demand. Many of them had reduced production because of the pandemic and experienced shipping delays as well as shortages in labor and inability to receive key materials. China's decision to lockdown also had a profound impact on our country.
The stimulus given by Trump and Biden are only a part of the equation.Thanks for sharing. I could share several links to offer economists that think differently. My view is we are headed for deeper economic problems in 2023, and beyond. I will agree to disagree
Economists that dismiss all the other contributions to inflation and put the blame solely and squarely on Biden? Please don't spare us
SHARLEE01 WROTE:
Thanks for sharing. I could share several links to offer economists that think differently. My view is we are headed for deeper economic problems in 2023, and beyond. I will agree to disagree
ELukeCadwell -- economists that dismiss all the other contributions to inflation and put the blame solely and squarely on Biden? Please don't spare us
I can see you feel only your view matters, you really don't even consider my views in any respect. I have tried to be polite about the fact we in the end disagree about what caused our long period of inflation.
I did not even offer other economists' views, and I did not precisely what I knew your reply would be. What is hilarious --- I got the comment I expected if I had offered sources to prove my point.
And I note you said "Spare us" ... Did not realize you spoke for others on this forum.
I was polite and offered up --- agree to disagree. Maybe time to just be more truthful. I am not interested in your view on the economy. As I said we are beating a dead horse."I can see you feel only your view matters".
Really? No. That's an assumption. I don't think I've said that, only offered my sources and opinions as everyone else here has.
Correction: I stated "don't spare us" and that was in response to your statement that you had links to economists that put the blame of Inflation squarely and solely on Biden and no other mitigating factors.
I thought forums were a place to debate different thought. This one seems filled with many who would be happier in an echo chamber.
Your inflation in the USA didn't get as high as it did in the UK, and it's falling faster than it is in the UK; I think, in spite of your pessimism things are not as bleak for 2023 and beyond as you imagine.
DrMark1961: I think you might be splitting hairs here. Of course the virus was a disease of the human body. The impact it had on society as a result of so many falling ill or dying is what is being referred to as impacting the economy. I'm sure you understand.
Sharlee: Would you rather people lost their homes or couldn't feed their families because the pandemic made it so difficult to continue their regular lives? Yes, there is a financial fallout following it. There was no way to avoid that if folks were going to receive the help they needed under dire circumstances.
Millions of retirees got a "stimulus" check - if they lost their homes without it it was not caused by the pandemic. Same for millions of white collar workers that got them while working.
And then to add to the problem those people that were laid off got unemployment checks that were, in many cases, more than they were earning. Same thing applies; if they lost their homes without those huge unemployment checks then it was not the fault of the pandemic. I do think that the extension of unemployment was useful, but not the giant checks sent out.
Then, adding insult to injury, we found millions of people that refused to take a pay cut and go back to their jobs when those jobs re-opened. This caused thousands of small business to fail when they couldn't get help, and the inevitable result was more inflation.
I will add that those retirees mentioned have now had their savings eroded badly by the "recession" created by inflation. Perhaps if we could give money to those still working, or unemployment beyond any earnings that would have happened, we could re-build the savings of those that have suffered and may, indeed, lose their homes because of the loss of savings...caused by Biden.The main problem I had with the massive stimulus packages Biden provided was they poured unnecessary large amounts of cash into the economy at a rapid rate. Many people, like myself, did not need Trump's check or Bidens check. In fact, the money went into savings. I think more thought should have gone into who needed those checks, this certainly could have helped curb the inflation that occurred.
I think many needed cash to survive, and those citizens naturally should have received government help.My family didn't need the checks either. Know what we did? We put the money back into the economy by hiring local workers to do projects that needed to be done on our home - pandemic or not.
Not being an economics expert of any sort I went looking about for information on it. I found an interesting article that made it clearer for me. That article also discussed the economics of 2021-22. From the article, it states:
"No one knows for sure exactly how much these different factors contributed. But one study by economists at the New York Federal Reserve estimated that 40% of the rise in prices in 2021 was due to supply-side factors, and 60% to demand-side factors."
The article is; What Causes Inflation? published at Harvard Business Review (Dec 23, 2022)
https://hbr.org/2022/12/what-causes-inflation
A little past halfway is where inflation for 2021-22 is shared where that quote is at.
So, again, I am no expert and a learner it seems there are two sides to the coin - supply, and demand. But, it did not really wind up being heads or tails as the coin still continues twirling on the tabletop and has not yet landed on one side or the other. There are people taking bets as it twirls on which side it will land.Good article; thanks for sharing - I think the article shows that it's dangerous to try to simplify the subject of inflation, and that it is important to look at all the factors.
My issue is the youth's disrespect and disregard for the elders of society who are just trying to make it a better/safer place.
Youth probably don't feel they need the guidance of elders since that guidance is so outdated and irrelevant.
You are falling off the cliff.
Have fun with that.
I am pleasantly wishing you a good rest of your day.
see you 'round.
take two.Yes, the arc of the universe ultimately leans left.
Conservatism as represented by Trumpism and the MAGAT hat must be eliminated.
With ever increasing political and cultural extremism, they will expose themselves where even moderate conservatives will fear to tread.
I patiently wait until their authoritarian and tyrannical tactics are revealed for all the world to see, and when they cross the line, WE will be waiting for them with a goal of pushing them back into the Stone Age where they belong.
There is no room for compromise nor complacency in the struggle against this hoard.
If I know my Rightwingers, they could not resist stepping into trap that will be set for them. So, I invite them to go ahead and "get out of line".
So, Researchaccount has another friend...
I mince no words here.Friends with a bot? Is that kind of like saying "chatgpt is my good friend"?
Doc, this is just another person with a contrary opinion, what else is it that righties fear?
A "person" that joins and is banned every week in a new account? If this "person" is here in one month I might believe that.
Hopefully, that not in this case, but we will see. Meanwhile, I make friends and/or political allies wherever I can find them.
I try to avoid personal denigration and insults though.Good policy. Even though I disagree with you on political issues, I do not see you making personal attacks. I woke up to find a personal attack from that person; that is not someone I would want to claim as a friend.
This is what they posted: "Dr. Mark Is painful, Delusional. Uninformed. I'm feeling deep sadness for any animal in his care at this point. Please, Jesus take the wheel."Denigration and insults don't bother me - you know the old saying "sticks and stone may brake my bones but words will never hurt me".
Although there's only one person in these forums who constantly tries to denigrate me at every opportunity she gets.No way you said that. I have believed that forever. I also believed everybody had heard that old saying. Said it many times but I never got a witness. And now it's a Brit that gives it. Thanks. Some truths are global.
GAStating the obvious - Yeah, I’m sure there are many phrases that are global, and this is obviously one of them. Following your remarks - out of interest I looked at a number of different sources for the origin of the phrase, and its variants; and most sources cite the first three times the phrase, or a variant, appeared in print, while a few sources cite only the third occurrence:
Three earliest occurrences found of this phrase, and its variants, in chronological order, are:-
1. 1857: F. R. Horner, M.D., published in the Northern Times, Liverpool, Lancashire, England on 23rd July 1857 the phrase:
“Sticks and stones break one’s bones, but names will never hurt one” - He was criticising a fellow medical practitioner who had converted to homeopathy.
2. 1862: The Coleraine Chronicle and North of Ireland Advertiser, Coleraine, Derry, Ireland (now Northern Ireland) on 18th January 1862 published the phrase:
“Sticks and stones break one’s bones, but names will never hurt one”
The gist of it is where the journalist for the Coleraine Chronicle (a local newspaper at the time) used the phrase in his article of a “regular stand up fight” in a Hall in Enniskillen (a town in Northern Ireland) when the Baron de Camin was trying to make a gospel speech, which most of the local Protestants wanted to hear; but a small minority of the locals didn’t want his to speak, so they organised a riot – which was quickly put down by the locals – in the words of the journalist “There was a regular stand up fight. True to their historic fame, the Protestants of Enniskillen cleared the hall of their opponents in gallant style; and the freedom of speech was vindicated.
Rioters arrested by the police were sent to prison from a week or a month dependent on, as described by the journalist “Some of those arrested were sent to prison for a week, or a month, according as their zeal in the cause of religion incited them to an irreligious mode of proving it”.
3. 1862: The Christian Recorder, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA on 22nd March 1862 used the phrase:
“Sticks and stones will break my bones, but words will never harm me.”
It was used in the sermon in reference to how children can tease each other, which can then escalate into a physical fight.My source was my parents. "Sticks and stones may break your bones, but words can never hurt you." I would later learn there was a second part: "Unless you let them."
GA"Everything out there is neutral. It's how you react."
Very few have control over their reactions. Its one thing to have an emotional reaction and its another thing to react. How can we control and master our external behavior in the face of internal reactions?
Self-mastery on some level.
So, its not as easy as one wishes.Sometimes it's not. Practice becomes hard with some.
Yes.
Once, as a substitute teacher at a Jr. High, fed up with a couple of stubborn trouble makers, I declared, "You really need to develop self-mastery."
One was so innocently curious about what I was saying!
Apparently, he had never heard the term, "self-mastery."
"What is that?" he asked.
I replied, "It's when you have the ability to guide your own will to the greatest benefit."
"Ohhhh...." he said with sudden humility.
I haven't heard of the 2nd part before. I think like most people, I first learnt of the phrase as a school kid.
The first part was a parental lesson, the second part was a life lesson.
GA
"Conservatism as represented by Trumpism and the MAGAT hat must be eliminated."
"There is no room for compromise nor complacency in the struggle against this hoard.
If I know my Rightwingers, they could not resist stepping into trap that will be set for them. So, I invite them to go ahead and "get out of line".
Cred, this in my view is no way to bridge a wide gap. I will say, I am glad don't hear or see this kind of attitude coming from Republicans/ conservatives that post here.
You're hurting your cause, you're just inflaming the situation. Do you imagine the other side will just disappear, not defend their thoughts, their ideologies?
How do your words help your cause? How do vague threats get you closer to your goal?
And I must point out in regard to Researchaccount . I am not sure if this user is a bot or an actual person. It would seem it may be one person that's started out as Faye and has gone through many other user names.
Many of us welcomed Faye and did converse very freely. I am not sure why she was banned over and over. Perhaps the moderator discovered this user was a bot. I certainly did have many conversations with the user, as did most here. I found I had little in common with the user's views, and tried to be polite, and just stay away from this
user's comment. I addressed the user's comment when I felt the conversation was debatable. The debates became repetitive and took on the feeling of beating a dead horse. We all have the right to walk away, agree to disagree, or dig in and debate.
This user, in my view, just could not take no for an answer. This did feel like I was talking to a bot. Maybe, this user should just respect that others have the right to their views, and not be so aggressive pushing their own.
Hey, they have the right to be aggressive, but I feel I have the right to walk away.
Cred, this may be a bot. This may be why the user is banned each time they pop up.
If this is truely a registered user, I don't think they have a ligament complaint. They need to buck up and realize they have a right to their view, as we all do.
I also think that this user does not realize many of the comments here are purely view oriented. And views are individual, and all the Googling links will not work to change one's view all the time.I am sorry to leave you with that impression. But as you go on about Biden and the Democrats, this is what I see. It is not so much of a threat as where I see we are heading. I do hear basically the same attitudes by conservatives, strident and resistance to other ways of seeing things. I am warning that, yes, the very danger is the assumption that they will as current defined dissapear as the byproduct of a maturing society.
1. Nobody, NOBODY can attempt to subvert our election process and that is what Trump and his henchmen tried to do on 1/6/21. Regardless of how Trumpers try to "spin it", this is an attack on the Democratic process, one which I cannot abide.
Moves from the Trump right by certain state legislators giving them unchallenged power to effect changes in electors and the popular vote, outside the will of the electorate. I will document this upon request.
THAT is a clear and present danger that supercedes anything else, in my opinion.
I had been following Faye and her comments, she has done nothing to merit banning. She has been no more abrasive that many others, probably less so.
As for the "bot" thing. I give everybody the benefit of the doubt, no harm in that. Computer science is remarkable, but I still can discern that there is a human being behind the comments.
I am sure you would think that you were 'beating a dead horse' in our debates in regard to adamant positions that I take on issues of the day."I had been following Faye and her comments, she has done nothing to merit banning. She has been no more abrasive that many others, probably less so."
I have agreed with that sentiment... I am not sure why she keeps getting banned. Is this user a Bot that is just being removed automatically? I don't know. I live and let live, unless a user comes right out and personally insults me. I always let that user know when I am reporting a conversation. She has not personally insulted me.
And no I have never felt we were beating a dead horse. We both know we come from the other side and pretty much respect boundaries.
ha ha
a "ligament complaint!"
Yes, we all have a ligament right to our view!
That bot has been banned already, ligament and all!
The person or bot is already back -- under RebelWithAClue
Maybe just ignore this bot/maybe person and they will go away.
It would be nice if the Moderator would share if this is a bot.I knew of a writer who was banned in like-manner. But the guy came up with another user-friendly name. And he's not writing again, but just reading.
It is good for us all to hear different opinions but personal attacks are a good reason to ban. This one is back already; I have not seen any personal attacks so maybe she can be here for more than a day this time.
Doesn't your scroll wheel work? (or scroll finger) You don't have to read or respond to things you think are personal attacks. Unless you want to, of course.
GAHow are you able to tell a post will have a personal attack if you do not read it? Have you seen trolls using "personal attack trigger warnings"?
I'm not sure about those warnings, what do you mean? Might be a brain glitch but all I think of are things like 'Warning video contains etc." Or trolls warning that they feel attacked?
My comment is an extension of another thread's tangent. The words can't be personal attacks unless you respond to them. Until you do, they're just attempted personal attacks. Don't help them out.
I don't mean that to sound like a lecture, the devil on my shoulder is instigating for a real rant about all this banning, personal attacks, reporting, worrying about whether a 'banned user' might come back to participate, or 'the poster hasn't written anything, this is a platform for writers, he doesn't belong here' (OMG! the 'unrightness' of it), and micro-triggers (not to your reference), stuff is nuts. It's a damn political discussions forum, not a choir room, it would be pretty boring if things weren't contentious.
That's not giving anyone a pass on rude trollish behavior, but as another said, Don't feed the trolls and they go away (or at least to a level of background noise).
I warned you. He snuck that rant in after all. ;-)
GAThe comment was a lame attempt to be humerous. Trolls do not leave trigger warnings.
I do agree that this forum can be contentious but not more than it should be for a political forum. You are correct in that those personal attacks should be ignored. I think she was banned again for attacking other people too but I am not sure.
Yep, more words of wisdom.
I usually ignore personal attacks - to take the bait only brings you down to their level.That is pretty funny as you always have to reply to every comment. I have never seen you ignore something.
Comments are not necessarily personal attacks; and when I reply I don’t retaliate with a personal attack, I merely add substance. Besides, I don’t reply to every ‘single’ comment e.g. you might have noticed that I’ve ignored the insults from one user who has recently gone through a spat of trying to belittle me.
None of us are perfect so you might think about whether you have also attacked that person too. You do have a tendency to always answer so that you can have the last word in an argument. Prove me wrong.
I don't pick that up. I see Arthur as meticulously backing up everything that he posts with reliable sources.
Certain audiences are intimidated when credible references and sources challenges what is just mere conjecture.Did you follow that climate thread? Both of them argued quite a bit.
Yes, I did and much of my conclusions come from how that was conducted between the parties. Did I miss something?
Yep, both of us argued (not one sided); and no common ground was ever found that we could agree on. What I found most frustrating is that time and time again I asked her (in vain) to provide credible evidence to back up her claims.
Yep, no one’s perfect, including me – after all, we’re only human. I might have got exasperated with her a few times because she does insult the intelligence of, or tries to do a character assassination of, anyone who she disagrees with, not just me but also targeting Greta Thunberg and the main stream scientific community, and the European Governments (including Conservative governments in Europe), just to name a few.
And yeah, I do have a stubborn streak whereby in a disagreement (where we can’t find common ground) I’ll tend not take things laying down, which does mean that I’ll often carry on debating a point until the cows come home if necessary, if the other person is just as stubborn.
But I do try not to get personal.You do have a tendency to always want to get the last word in when in an argument. I think a lot of us have a stubborn streak!
Some of us that had a stubborn streak?
Let's name the characters NathanVilli, savvydating, DrMark, Ken, Miebakagh57? I think my friend savvydating seems to be the most that hit harder with her climate change thread Too true! I have also noticed that you cannot discuss Ukraine without someone getting angry!!!!
Yes, I was a complete novice to Ukraine history. And yes too, throghout all my history course at university, my department and faculty never boder to teach history of the East or Russian block. So I've got to dig and dive in with my research findings. That could be very odd indeed to those experienced observers Ken and ReadMikeNow, who are soja, seems very strong on the military aspect of the Ukraine war.
If you are referring to me, let me clarify that my only criticism of you has been that you endlessly cut & pasted a good deal of faulty information on my climate change forum. Beyond that, I never paid any attention to you. Never cared or noticed you, frankly.
Perhaps you use ChapGPT. One has to wonder how else one can post words (practically) 24/7. Unlike you, I have never criticized anyone's intelligence. That is what you have done to me and what the Left does in America, due to their insecurity... and use of propaganda.
I don't do that. I simply call balls and strikes, as truthfully as I can.You never criticise anyone’s intelligence; yet you are accusing me of using AI (ChapGPT) to write my posts on HP!!!
I have not noticed him posting 24/7. (He usually posts in the mornings for the UK.) The government in that country has raised a lot of wealth over the years stealing from other countries and they use that wealth now to pay a lot of people to just sit at home.
Anyway, I think he has a lot more time than you or most of us to look up sources that agree with his perspective.
You have to stop this. Your 'bring them down to your level' thought is another of my mantras. I often refer to a Mark Twain quote that makes that point: "Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.”
GAWho are the idiots, in your estimation?
As for Kinzinger, he is a never-Trumper who voted to impeach Trump. Your posts, current and past, seem to confirm that you are closely aligned with the views of K, and Cheney.
If that is not accurate, my bad.
You said this recently: "Yep, 2024 isn't looking promising. However, my optimism thinks it is still possible for Trump to lose his base."
Today, Trump's base is stronger than ever. Nevertheless, never-Trumpers still have a say... which is why we will likely lose our Republic.
My deepest concern is that you and all moderate "conservatives" so willingly dismiss the Progressive propaganda that is currently causing the suicide of young teenage girls, to mention only one of the terrible problems facing America today. When I brought up the subject, you batted it away as if it were an inconvenient pest. This attitude is very sad for the future well-being of our youth.
I do not believe moderates have any idea of the stakes involved in aligning themselves so closely with the Left.You're not wrong, I do align with many of the issues that prompted you to use those two as examples. And I am, now, a never-Trumper. That does not equate to aligning with any particular politician. And certainly not to the point of being proud of it.
I think otherwise about his 'base.' He has hardened his core base beyond any movement, but I think he will lose more than he gains in all other segments.
Moderates aren't becoming more aligned with the Left, we are simply becoming less aligned with your Right.
As for the "idiots," I think the quote implies that we all get to define them.
GA"Moderates aren't becoming more aligned with the Left, we are simply becoming less aligned with your Right." In my view, That sounds like fence-sitting.
So seriously, do you realize the importance of taking back the White House like yesterday?
That says it all... Oh man, I am out of hereAbsolutely. Thank you for your willingness to vote Republican. If the never-Trumper’s and the Left get their way, the United States is screwed.
A polite Progressive is still a Marxist. Better a bombastic Trump, who has always done what he said he would do.
I urge you to read, “The Case for Trump” by Victor Davis Hanson, who is a senior fellow at the Hoover Institution at Stanford University.Is 'The Case for Trump' a book or an article? Though I'm an outsider, I like the mindset Trump had for America.
Could not agree more. And the time is here, to face facts, and to really consider the mess Biden and his bunch have done to the country. The moral decay that has grown so quickly in his time. We need to look at 2024 as a turning point. Will we thrive as a Nation or will Biden finish the job?
I have no more tolerance left for fence sitters. We can't afford to do nothing, this was never the American way.
Victor Davis Hanson wrote a good book: The Case For Trump. You will probably never read it, but perhaps Sharlee or some other interested Party will.
The Right is not hardened. We simply want to retain our Republic.
That being said, I do know other Republicans, who are NOT moderate but who also believe that another candidate for the Republican Party might be better, though they are unable to name who that might be. I believe they are concerned about the endless lawsuits, endless attacks by the media, and the chaos that ensues from the unfair treatment of a man who has committed no crime.
I hope you were not referring to me as an idiot. That would be wrong.You're right I probably won't read your recommended book. My anti-Trump view isn't formed by the Left's claims against him, it is formed by what I think of his actions, so I don't know what anyone could say to make me not believe what I saw and heard.
I was not referring to you as an idiot. Maybe I can add some clarity to this "idiot" thing. My use of the term, in the context of these forums, relates to folks that say idiotic (of course that would be my determination) things relative to some specific issue. For me, it works as a description of a position more than a person.
GA"My anti-Trump view isn't formed by the Left's claims against him, it is formed by what I think of his actions, so I don't know what anyone could say to make me not believe what I saw and heard."
Can we agree that the views of many thoughtful people are derived in the same way that that you say yours have been?Sure, as long as what they derived agrees with what I derived. ('You know; don't pee on my leg and tell me it's raining-type explanations)
If they don't agree then they couldn't possibly be 'thoughtful' conclusions. ;-)
GAEgad, Lord Anderson, forgive me for living......
How do we poor mortals expect to ever offer a "contrary" opinion?Express away, anytime, any day. Unlike history's most praised Benificents which only allowed the multitudes to address them on certain days of the year, my beneficence showers them with year-round access.
Think about it, could you accept that other opinions are more right and correct than yours — and not change your opinion?
GA"Think about it, could you accept that other opinions are more right and correct than yours — and not change your opinion?"
Indeed MeLord,
Yes, but you will have to present evidence from non-bias sources in sufficient quantity to have me change course. It has to be more than just perspective or a matter of opinion. But, I can and do change a perspective, it is possible.Then we agree, we think our own opinions are the correct ones or we would have changed them. We are reasonable folks, so what other answer could I possibly give to your question?
Besides, you're the one that always talks about sallying forth, that's what lordships do.
GA
What actions? His mean tweets? His bombastic nature? Does that offend your sensibilities so much that you would throw away our freedom by enabling Progressives?
I thought you were all for free speech?
Do you not have any idea of all the good Trump did for the United States? Do you have any idea how Joe Biden is destroying this nation?
Think of your children. Do you really want them to live in “smart cities” where they are trapped?
My God.Nah, I wasn't offended, my sensibilities are pretty hard to offend. I do think I have an idea of how our political division is harming our nation, but maybe not. It's probably certain that others know better than I. You seem to think you do.
GA
Mark, I do not put much store in "bots" or people who were here before and who attack others in a hysterical manner. HP will check their IP address and send them packing. If I interact with them, it is for fun. They do not bother me.
However, to "scroll" over and play dead to anyone who Libels the good name of anyone on HP is not appropriate. Those narcissists should be banned because they are breaking the law, Libel is a crime. It is not okay with me, nor should it be for anyone here.
There is a reason HP has moderators.
We all have a right to share out views. And I don't feel anyone stifled this person's views.
The way to winning over minds that are not already hardened in extremism is always with sugar and not a stick.
Even when someone appears to be "championing" the side of "Rightwingers" it doesn't mean that they are politically extreme.
One of the issues I have always brought up here, is that there are many contributors that WANT to shove other posters into one Camp of extremism or another (I'm sure I'm guilty of that myself, but much less so these days).
If you debate an issue with someone, and they are making good points, the worst thing you can do is throw insults and labels at them. That is not going to convince them of anything other than perhaps you are not a rational person worth debating things with.
Of course... there is another aspect as well... don't feed the Trolls.The Rightwingers as part of current Trump universe are already politically extreme, in my opinion. If you support the Rightwingers and their objectives are you not part of the problem?
In a following comment to Sharlee, I described what that meant, have a look at it, if you please.
Either you support the mode and method of our Constitutional system as to how we are governed or you pursue raw power without consideration. That is an unacceptable threat, regardless as to which side employs un-democratic tactics.
My points are no more caustic than the points made by Rightwingers, Republicans and conservatives on a daily basis. Nobody has been personally assaulted as part of my commentary.
I am going to attack their values and principles and press the other side to explain and justify them. Nobody gets hurt. Because what is going on this country right now is NOT ok with me.
Extremism exists and becomes acceptable when people are willing to accomodate it, there can be no sitting on the fence.
The problems are shrouded by those that say it is all politics or "tit for tat". The "it is all the sameism" is a delusion and distraction. And it constitutes one major point that I bring out of all of this.
So, I am not one to call a dog a chicken.What do you do when the system has been corrupted beyond repair?
What does it matter who you vote for, when who-ever you vote for is going to continue the corruption and criminality that has been going on?
When is it that the voters are going to ask the simplest of questions, such as, how people like Pelosi and Waters have become worth tens of millions of dollars or more, on salaries of $150,000 +/-?
Waters has a LA-based mansion worth several million and other assets estimated to be worth over $5 million (I imagine that to be a rather conservative estimate). Pelosi is estimated to be worth $120 million.
What do these people have in common with real ‘working class’ Americans that they are supposed to represent?
People say they want change, but are given the same choices of politicians over and over again, for decades on end.
When change does come, the establishment goes to work overtime to convince Americans they are racist, sexist anti-American traitors... they did this to the TeaParty movement, they do it today to the Trump supporters.
Trump the wrecking ball that slammed into the establishment, could have been a force for change.
Trump wasn’t the ultimate answer, he could have been the beginning of the change that was needed, the start of what must come if we are to have a country that doesn't resemble China soon. But we didn't get that change, we got Biden, who is as corrupt and part of the establishment as any person walking the Halls of DC today.
Some of these politicians have been in DC since I’ve been old enough to vote, and I’m over half a century old!
There is inherently something wrong with a system that allows that.
There is something wrong with a system where voters clamor for Bernie in 2016 and get stuck with Clinton instead... or who clamor for change and get stuck with Biden being dragged out of the basement instead.
The system is broken yet you support the mechanism, the process, because you still believe it serves you.
It doesn't.
Give it a couple more years my friend, when CBDC is rolled out the changes will come fast and furious, and then you will begin to see what I have been trying to say all along.
It will be too late by then, but you will see it.Ken, it is so evident that this administration came in to tear down the country, with a plan to rebuild our Nation into an authoritarian Government. They did the homework, the plan is being implemented, and we have many maybe half the country hooked into this all kind of crazy.
I have witnessed something that is disturbing. Social media is showing the left becoming more and more outspoken about solutions to what is needed in regard to "the other side". The vague threats are evident.
I am being to feel this great divide, and the promotion of hate will ultimately turn into some form of revolution.
I mean it should be evident we, the other side is not about to back away from our values, our basic beliefs, or the Constitution.
Sad timesJust prepping the populace, doing the ground work, so that Americans have been conditioned to accept it when their neighbor has everything taken away from them, based off of "Wrong Think".
The Chinese Communist Party (CCP) has developed a Central Bank Digital Currency (CBDC) that will allow the government to surveil, coerce, and control its citizens’ behavior as part of its larger Social Credit system.
https://www.cnas.org/publications/repor … l-currency
America is merely a couple years behind that, the Biden Administration has already talked about how they will use this tool to identify and counter those "threats to Democracy" they are worried about.
The only thing I don't know, is if it will happen at the end of this year, or if they will hold it off until after Biden is re-elected in 2024.... giving them more control and assurances that nothing can be done to undo any of their efforts (like occurred to some small degree when Trump got elected).
Considering they plan on collapsing the banking system, as we understand it, so that they can hasten in the CBDC in an effort to "save America" and the economy, it could have a major impact on people and cause considerable unrest... then again, the people were pretty docile during the Pandemic, they will probably react the same when this occurs as well.Sharlee: Are you serious? You are an intelligent woman. You can't possibly be serious?
I am sorry I am very serious. I don't say that lightly. I have every fear that this administration is very dangerous, and has no respect for America's constitution. Too much has been exposed about the Democratic party, as well as many of that are in this current administration.
I would think those on the other side should realize by now Republicans have a different agenda. I can't speak for the majority. I can share where I feel they are coming from because much of the time I am pleased with what I see them doing. I certainly don't look at banning certain books in schools if the books are considered inappropriate for children or should I say books that are not age appropriate. I beleive teachers are there to teach the curriculum that they are provided. I really do not feel the profession should be unionized. I do believe our society needs an abortion option. I feel our society has come to the point abortion is a good thing. It's very clear life is not as respected as it may have been some time ago.
I do not see your view regarding Republicans and authoritarianism.
I feel yes, we have some changes in the party, but changes that I feel are deemed positive. I think you might want to realize Republicans being very conservative appreciate a politician being on top of anything that has to do with what some look at as diminishing values, and yes sometimes social norms. We appreciate as little government as possible and promote problem-solving that works for the long run, not bandaids. (these are my thoughts, and not meant to say all Republicans believe as I do)
I think I can safely say it is obvious conservatives and liberals are wired very differently.Bills that are keeping out freedoms, and respecting the constitution as well as our well-appreciated freedoms, and values.
" Our founders never intended for government to regulate values."
They had values, but most likely did not comprehend they needed to regulate values.
"We can decide what is right for our children and our personal lives. We don't need politicians to do that. "
Yes, until we have teachers stepping up and sharing their ideologies in regard to politics, and sexuality issues. Some making attempts to usurp the wishes of parents.
" Your values are no more important than my values. Teachers have the right to unionize or join a union if they so choose. I see nothing wrong with that."
True we both have a right to our values. In regard to the teachers being unionized, that subject would make a great thread. I think many would join in on that issue.
"Republicans are promoting a program for reconstructing the entire society through culture and turning it into a Catholic authoritarian social order."
I don't see that in any respect. So, can't add a word to the subject.
"The power of the state will serve as an extension of the Republican Party’s cultural grievances, and businesses whose opinions are deemed unacceptable will be punished accordingly."
This is ridiculous your wokeness may have you projecting. This is what the Democrats are trying to pull off not only in blue states but our Federal government.
There are few woke corporations, so I don't think that's an issue. I will say it does appear some red politicians are trying to rid their states of woke corporations that are promoting woke ideologies. Can't deny that.
Ok, the "system" was corrupt 100 years ago, so what else is new?
Politics has always been dirty business, but the rules of engagement cannot be broken by anyone for any reason. So, when has the smoke filled rooms where candidates are selected ever been different?
The fact that you focus on Democrats in your example of "corruption" clearly show that you are not neutral in the way that you would have us believe, but clearly has taken a side.
Change? The Tea Party was racist from where I sat, attacking Obama as a Black President and making a fuss over matters that have been existence long before he was born.
You want to change the system? You do it within the structure provided for in the Constitution of the United States. Otherwise, it is just an un-democratic power grab hiding behind a ruse of ferreting out corruption in Washington. We have tried to do much of this with campaign finance reform initiatives, that the conservatives were solidly against. So, I don't believe a word of their "clean sweep" talk.
It is up to the people and the electorate to impose term limits, done through proper channels and not imposed by mindless mobs and tyrannical leadership. The duration of these same people with extended terms is the problem, not the age of the legislators.
The system may not be perfect, but authoritarianism and tyranny is certainly not an improvement and that is what I see with Trump and his supporters, today.Thats a fair and reasonable assessment.
What I wonder about it, is how much of that assessment is legitimate, and how much of it is the labeling and framing done by the MSM.
The TeaParty came about because of the ACA being passed which has been a detriment to many people and has allowed a vicious health care system to become more so... more cost, less care, less concern for the patient.
When there was a wave of change voted into Congress following ACAs passing, then came the association with racism and whatever else they framed it up as... using the IRS to combat Non-Profits that supported the agenda of things like smaller government, reversal of the ACA etc. in the following election.
Anyways... not worth arguing over really... change is coming, nothing is standing in its way, certainly not me.
I am just spending my money on things I need now... before CBDC comes around.The tea party by classic definition came in based upon the anger over all the corporate bailouts in 2008. But Obama did not start that fire, was that not GW Bush that presided over this from the beginning? Of course, the always troublesome over 45, white,male, rural, uneducated individuals takes center stage in these matters as they usually do.
Just to remind you, Ken, I have seen that movie too.
https://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politi … 55712.html
Just as you do, I do my own thinking and the conclusions I come to reflect many sources, not Fox nor Breitbart, but I would never give them much credibility anyway
Not racist? Here is an example and it so happened that I remember it quite vividly, as I don't forget a great deal.
https://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politi … 77294.html
The assualt on this senior black legislator was quite ugly and helped to define a great deal of what was behind the "movement". You all will say that it was an aberration or another coincidence. My problem is that I am only going to accept so many of those before looking for a pattern.Why I bring up how the Tea Party began is relevant.
I want to pose a question to you... if you were tasked with discrediting a group or movement, how would you do so?
If you had unlimited monetary resources and well trained intelligence agents at your disposal, along with the ability to review anyone's personal records and ability to run surveillance on everything they say and do, with no restrictions to how you interact with said group or movement, how would do it?
Remember, you don't want these individuals killed, you want to discredit the movement, you want the majority of Americans to want to shun it or not be associated with it.
Perhaps you make examples out of the most highly visible of them, arrest them for an obvious crime, or reveal things about them most people find repulsive?
And if you don't have such a deplorable individual available, maybe you insert one or two agents into said movement to act reprehensibly and offensively.
The goal is to diffuse this growing movement or group, while strengthening the general population's belief, support and sympathy for what this movement is standing against.
Just want you to think outside of what is obvious, what is spoon fed to you. Clearly there are plenty of bad apples out there, that recording of those Oklahoma police that was mentioned in another thread, you don't get much more racist and reprehensible than that.
I just find it curious that these movements, these uprisings, that are agitated with the government, be they Tea Party or Trumpers seem to always be racist, deplorable, terrorist types.
You know... now that I am thinking of it... didn't they used to use those sorts of tactics against Malcolm X and MLK back in the 60s?
https://www.lib.berkeley.edu/about/news/fbi
Yeah, same tactics, different targets.
I must note, on your links, it requires a subscription to view those articles, so I did not see them. Sorry.Yes, I am sorry that you missed the articles links, that I had post.
As for dirty tricks, I could refer to J Edgar's plot against the Civil Rights Movement, Dr. MLK. You plant spies to deliberately put the movement in a state where it could be discredited. You can refer to Dr. King's entourage as Communist inspired which is what Hoover did. And I remember that all any all efforts to address Civil Rights have often been so labeled by the Right.
There are plenty of dirty tricks, are you saying that this is how we should view the "Tea Party"? Here is the gist of the headline
Tea party protesters scream 'N word' at black congressman
WASHINGTON — Demonstrators outside the U.S. Capitol, angry over the proposed health care bill, shouted N word Saturday at U.S. Rep. John Lewis, a Georgia congressman and civil rights icon who was nearly beaten to death during an Alabama march in the 1960s.
Protesters also shouted obscenities at other members of the Congressional Black Caucus, spat on at least one black lawmaker and confronted an openly gay congressman with taunts.
Capitol Police escorted the members of Congress into the Capitol after the confrontation. At least one demonstrator was reported arrested.
"They were shouting, sort of harassing," Lewis said. "But, it's okay, I've faced this before. It reminded me of the 60s. It was a lot of downright hate and anger and people being downright mean."
-----------
King has never truly taken a Communist tack in anything that he did and disassociated himself with a trusted confident who even gave the impression of such. That was manufactured. But I remember the attack on John Lewis that day as coming from several Tea Party members. And no one is going to convince me that this was just a "misunderstanding"
I don't have to be "fed" anything I can see for myself.
--------
"Just want you to think outside of what is obvious, what is spoon fed to you. Clearly there are plenty of bad apples out there, that recording of those Oklahoma police that was mentioned in another thread, you don't get much more racist and reprehensible than that."
Well, Ken, that can go both ways, who tries to spoon feed me information ameliorating the significance of events? Black Lives Matter is a terrorist organization or perhaps "lawlessness in the Democrat controlled cities", J6 -Significance, Trump won etc? Who is feeding you and from what plate are you being served? What makes you think that you are not being "fed" simply from a different source? Your focus on a specific soup bowl clearly attacks Democrats as opposed to Republican, who is serving up that hash? Too many bad apples tend to give someone the impression that a sick tree is involved and much of the crop is tainted.Yes, I see we have a problem, the Oklahoma cops made this clear, that was more than just a bias or distrust, that was abhorrent and reprehensible in ways I'm still working at finding a way to articulate the way I want to.
But because there are racist cops in some towns, does that make all cops racist? Hard to believe it can be applied to all, especially considering how many non-white cops there are.
Same for the Tea Party, it had nothing to do with race, it became something the MSM latched onto and made sure got plenty of coverage and then Tea Party became racists. That's how it works.
If you want to disparage and denigrate a movement, then make sure you get some of those involved in the movement spouting racist sexist attacks... and if they don't, well then, get some people in their midst to do just that.
So when you show how the Black Caucus was attacked by Tea Partyers... that is exactly what you need to destroy the movement's reputation.
Just a shame we don't know who those people really were, if they were really Tea Party activists or Anarchists trying to ruin the movement or agents of the FBI or just a few bad apples.
That is the point I am trying to make... you have NO IDEA who they really were, you just know someone was spouting racist hateful attacks and the MSM told you they were Tea Partyers.
And now you...and every activist like you hates them... and could care less about what points they were making and if they had legitimate concerns.
It would work on me as well, I have to admit, as soon as you say a person or a movement is supporting the norming of pedophilia I am 100% against them, one could even call me an activist against them.
That is a fair point. And an accurate one too often.
I am going to see things from a white male perspective, and I have to work through my own biases as well as whatever bias the source of information I am using may have.
Its why I enjoy my debates with you, I have an open enough mind that I am willing to challenge my own perceptions and beliefs when they are challenged by good, well articulated, counter arguments.There is still this undercurrent that what this law enforcement man did brazenly is only whispered by others with much of the same sentiment. I know that the vast majority of confrontations are without incident and there are bound to be circumstances where this occurs. It is just the level and temerity of one that is supposed to enforce the law. A bad example like this make me wonder when and where am I going to find it next?
"So when you show how the Black Caucus was attacked by Tea Partyers... that is exactly what you need to destroy the movement's reputation."
So how do I know that this was not the sentiment of the movement itself, rather than a "set up"? That was a pretty brazen affair, sounds so much like Conservatives saying that infada infiltrators were among the number of attackers on J6, to cover and excuse who and what these people actually were.
I don't hate anyone, but I distrust the Right and all of its affiliates. There is always a place for fiscal responsibility, I just dont see the "other side" as promoting it. They simply "spend" on different priorities that I may have more problems with. They are still a Republican based organization more so than not which puts them at odds with me.
Why am I going to dismiss the propenderence of press coverage reporting the story over your conjecture?I have an inherent mistrust of MSM sources because my experiences have taught me not to trust their reporting in much the same way you don't trust the Right, because you have had experiences that taught you not to.
I do not see myself as Right Wing because I do not have a long standing belief in, or support of, the Republican party.
You see me as such, because at one time I supported Trump... over Hillary and Biden, I would hold my nose and do it again.
But that too... is because we prioritize things differently.
I saw Trump as someone who would not escalate war with Russia, who would put America first and not Agenda 2030 first, rescind the ACA and so on.
I don't believe you were working with the same information about Ukraine, or Agenda 2030, or the Global Compact on Migration, or the Paris Accord, or his promise to renegotiate NAFTA and other Trade agreements. And I don't believe you prioritized any of those things.
I am an Old School Democrat, Libertarian leaning, I believe in supporting the Middle Class, supporting ridding the country of racism, supporting the Family unit.
Much of the 'New Age' positions of the Democratic Party I oppose, especially when we drift to things like transgender, pedophilia, exposing extremely young kids to sexual content, etc.I hear you, Ken, but it just wasn't MSN it was Newsweek, Time and several examples of credible journalism, so why are we saying it comes from only one source?
Most of the positions you have taken in this forum has been more often than not, those taken by Republicans, that is difficult not to see.
As you describe the "New Age" stuff, I would take issue with that as well. As we may agree on this we a still quite apart on our views.
No, as to the information about the Ukraine, I probably did not have access to your sources, which I needed to see to verify your account of things.
Trump was far too divisive an individual for me to have any confidence that he could bring anything together. I did not trust him, he came with a track record that put me off, right away.I don't want to belabor any point about Trump.
MSN includes Time, Newseek, etc. they are ALL the same. Any mainstream American news is the same, even Fox will only go so far, truth is hard to come by.
Let me give you an example, I created a new forum thread:
Biden creates new Office of Environmental Justice
https://hubpages.com/politics/forum/358 … l-justice-
Take a moment to peruse it and its links.
How much of that/those topics have you heard discussed or debated in your MSM news?
Don't you feel it should be a topic for debate, a fundamental change is coming, one that will most probably wipe out the Middle Class and property ownership as we know it.
The information in that forum thread, combined with the changeover to CBDC https://www.federalreserve.gov/central- … rrency.htm will change the world.
Where you go, if you can go, what you can eat, what job you can work, will all be controlled by 2030. Private property will be bought up by corporations like BlackRock and foreign governments like China, there will be no Nations, there will be no Private property for individuals.
There will be International Corporations & Foreign Nations (Saudi Arabia, China, non-Democratic Authoritarian regimes) that will own everything.
This is not a conspiracy, or delusional concept. This is spelled out by Agenda 2030, the WEF, etc.
Maybe you are fine with that, maybe a feudalistic existence where the 1% lord over the 99% and that 99% exists merely for the use of that 1% on a global scale is OK with you.
You and I will likely be able to live out the rest of our existence in relative comfort, but the younger generations will never experience the freedoms and ability to control their own lives that we have experienced.
I am a New Age Democrat but I DON'T, DON'T support the more outlandish, if not insane ideas of this now refurbished, leftist Democratic Party. I staunchly the Middle Class, advocate for law & order instead of the policy of letting criminals go. The Democrat Party has metamorphized into the DEMONcrat Party.
Hi Miebakah57! This may not be relevant to your writing. I suddenly have an interest in Ukraine and her president. In February 2023, I attended a funeral service where I read the man who was being buried is a former student of Kharkov State University, Ukraine. Some weeks back, after the funeral service, I saw the young and sad president on Aljazeera TV and had a comparism of this old doctor, 82 years, and him -- perhaps his parents were just having relationship when my dead country's man w
as there. I hope we Africans will be one of Ukraine's future's presidents to resolve her problem.Akita, you 'sundenly' have an 'interest' in Ukraine and a dead student of her university? How far is my interest in Ukraine history then? How far is my interest in current afeairs then? Your name remind me of the book: 'Akiga Story', its about your country,edited by Rupert East. How do I got interested in it? Thank you.
DrMark1961: You make an astute observation. Someone should do a study of the personality traits of people who are active in HubPages discussions. We are probably more alike than different.
"My anti-Trump view isn't formed by the Left's claims against him, it is formed by what I think of his actions,"
Why can't others take this reasonable approach?I don't think America is more divided than it has been historically. I think with the advent of the Internet, we have more opportunities than in the past to discuss our opinions with more people who disagree. We also have the opportunity to have discussions with people we will never have to come face to face with, so polite discourse goes the way of the Dodo bird.
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