Trump found GUILTY
Donald Trump has been found guilty on all 34 counts
The verdict comes hours after jurors reheard portions of David Pecker's and Michael Cohen's testimony this morning.
What comes now?I wondered who would be first to comment. No doubt others will follow.
OK... shedding all my biases for a moment... so I can explain the situation, for my friends with opposing views, give it a read against your better judgement.
Who IS Trump.
In my TEENS (I'm in the 55+ range) Trump was already a NATIONAL figure. In those teens I read his book The Art of the Deal.
I'm not promoting it (it was one of a thousand books I read back then) or Trump... I am making a point.
Trump has been a part of Americana for almost a HALF CENTURY.
Trump Tower, the Taj Mahal, he owned a USFL football team, he was in Movies (cameo appearances), on TV he had his own series.
And then he was our President.
And he presided over a peaceful time and good economic time... until the Pandemic... which also reminds people of what came when he left... and all the things going on now, from wars, to inflation, to criminals being released right after committing horrendous crimes.
And now Americans are watching how trumped up ridiculous charges are being brought up in NY to attack him over, and over, and the ruling against him are outrageous... fining him 450+ million dollars??? fining him 90 million dollars for a woman who admitted she was never raped, made it all up??? And now finding him guilty, on the word of a convicted felon, who admitted to stealing money from Trump and wanting to get revenge???
This is going to make him an Icon for every non-rich non-indoctrinated American out there. Even for many who didn't like him or his tweets just a few years back... the illusion that he was a Russian conspirator has or that he is an Insurrectionist is wearing off.Ken: Here is one important point. Half of the jurors were selected by Trump lawyers. Since the verdict was unanimous on all the 34 counts, how could the trial be rigged by Biden?
Anyone that supports a convicted felon, well, we don't need to worry about such despicable people, they are clearly just as criminal in thought if not in deed... if necessary (which it will be) those willing to publicly show support for Trump will be made an example of as well.
These domestic terrorists will need to be put down, one way or the other.
Support of Trump will be a hate crime in no time... as Joy Behar said, wearing a MAGA hat is the same as wearing a Swastika and should be treated as such.
Make them pay for supporting Trump, treat them like the detestable filth that they are... they don't deserve to be treated with human dignity or decency.
We MUST save OUR Democracy!!!
All Trump supporters must be rooted out, exposed, denounced, humiliated, eliminated, as necessary.Another post steeped in violent rhetoric. Funny, there's only one person talking about killing anyone on this site. The victim-mentality is ridiculous.
It's funny, with the crimes he was just convicted of, not many MAGA people were saying he didn't do them, just that New York was applying the law in a different way than they knew was possible. They all know he did these crimes, and still support him. They support a cheat. They support an adulterer. They support a fraudster. This is where the MAGA base is currently.
Not really.
Maybe this is a foreign concept for some, but, I find the idea of ones happiness (or agony, for that matter) to depend on what happens to that convicted felon to be absolutely ridiculous. I have a life. The least of my worries is what happens to a politician.
I feel kinda sorry for those who do.
But thank you for asking.
I don't know what follows. I am sure self-righteousness will rear its ugly head up with the MAGA crowd seeking self-serving purposes. The cable network pundits will be pounding the pavement seeking ratings as they nobly and staunchly support that there is a miscarriage of justice, even though justice is blind especially with a jury of peers.
Really... you think MAGA believes their ideas and beliefs are morally better than everyone else?
Interesting... I wonder if that applies to the other side as well.Yup, I definitely do think the Christian Right representing the MAGA crowd not only think they are morally correct, but act with emotion dictated by their feelings!! Or, are they misrepresenting the MAGA crowd and I am just an old fool swayed by what is in the media, in the pulpits, and so forth?
And the other side isn't?
Never thought that of you, I believe you to be well read, a person that takes considerable time to evaluate large amounts of information on whatever topic catches your fancy.
I do not believe you sit at home every night watching Rachel Maddow and forming your opinions on the world based on what she is blathering on about, let alone the View, or NPR or whatever MSM site you feel denotes the Left side of things.
But there are plenty of people who ARE like that, even well read, well educated ones... it astounds me to this day that there are people who take what the likes of Rachel Maddow or Morning Joe say as anything more than hyperbolic nonsense... propaganda geared towards shaping opinions and beliefs, not presenting facts, to our well-informed American populace.
Yeah, I know, same can be said for some on the Right and FOX News...
I focus on solid things myself... Ukraine War, funding Iran, Open Borders.Thanks Ken!
Frankly, I can only afford basic cable. So, my news networks are NBC, CBS, ABC, and PBS. I watch our local CBS channel mainly and a local station KUSI. That one leans right while the local CBS affiliate has no lean at all. On an obscure channel now and then there is a Scripps network news broadcast to fill in a gap. Nothing consistent as far as broadcasts go.
I do once in a while on a Sunday morning watch Face the Nation, This Week, or Meet the Press. Nothing consistent from one week to the next. No fan of any one in particular.
Most of my info comes from online reading inclusive of this forum.
As far as "And the other side isn't?" statement . . . First, who is the other side? I don't know. Most certainly they don't seem to be vocal about politics as the Christian Right is. Otherwise, I would know who they are.
Again, I question is that because of the media? I know from what little research I have done I have a sour taste in my mouth regarding the Christian Right's position.Christian Right...
Well you have me here, it never dawned on me that this is considered a political/vocal force to be concerned about.
Using this link to define who falls under such a definition:
https://www.onlinechristiancolleges.com … ous-right/
Some names are familiar to me... Glen Beck, Mike Huckabee, Ted Cruz.
To me they are the minority, sure back in the 60s and 70s this was the dominant voice/viewpoint in politics... but I have a tough time believing the percentage of people who would fall under this definition reach 50% in today's America.
If they do make up 50% or more, I have to believe it is because of the large amount of first-generation migrants that have come from Central and South America.
Which may be something you see more of in CA, your neck of the woods, which is roughly 40% or more Hispanic today.
The Opposite...
This would be those who fall under the umbrella of Progressivism, Socialism and Atheism ... which probably defines the largest block of Democrats today, if I were to guess.
Men competing with women, MAPs, 72 sexes issues of the current Administration have kind of forced me into backing the opposite side on domestic matters... and forget it regarding foreign affairs, the decision to instigate and escalate conflict with Russia means I will never support this Administration/Party... I'm not a proponent for WWIII or Nuclear War.I will get back to you later of some of what you shared, Ken. But, for now I saw this image at Facebook and thought about this dialogue. It is kind of what I am speaking of with the Christian Right.
Also, before I go to far to add some clarity, I meant the Christian Right Nationalist specifically more so the White Christian Right Nationalist. So, I apologize for not being clear with what I had in mind when I made my statement.
Anyway, here is the image floating about.
That would be hilarious if it were not pathetic. Didn't Jesus say, "Get thee hence, Satan...?" (Matt. 16:23 NIV)
-
Wow, yeah, I gotcha...
But again... as I said, this isn't the 60s... the need to 'break free' from the restrictions and oppressive overreach of 'Christian Values' that were so predominant into the 60s is long gone and long ago.
Today's predominant 'faith' is what we see firmly at the helm of things today... Pride Month (a whole freaking month)... Transgenders being a 'protected minority' that infringe on women's rights... is going WAY PAST the liberal ideals of everyone being able to live as they want... and into forcing their preferences and moral priorities down ALL OUR throats.Sorry, can't resist sharing:
https://x.com/TheBabylonBee/status/1795 … Q&s=09Perfect timing, I had just finished watching a Dave Chappelle video, that fit right in.
Now THAT picture is a total farce, I am laughing uncontrollably.
You should be shaking uncontrollably, not laughing. There are a lot of people that believe in that meme, both symbolically and literally. Laughing them off is risky.
GAThe other side has people just as 'faithfull' in their beliefs and right now they are the ones in control shoving change very few asked for or wanted down the Nation's throat.
They are also the ones showing so boldly how the 'law' applies to political opponents but not Party members.Cmon, GA, that is dumb even for the evangelicals. if those that are in ardor over such symbols and graphics see this as real and appropriate, then I have no use for them and assault them in whatever ways palatable for the enemy that they are.
I want this sort disregarded, why should I care about people that make ridiculous connections like this?You had no use for them before this meme. They've always been beneath your regard.
The original thought wasn't about 'right or wrong' of the meme association, it was about the fact that it exists.
GA
Ken, I have thought long on how to reply. First, I am in agreement on some points and not others. I do appreciate over the many months your passion for your position and the education I have received from you on foreign affairs, though I have no stance at this time. For instance, with Ukraine I am stuck between principal and practicality.
To summarize how I see things today, I am borrowing a quote that seem to share my sentiments of what is occurring in our day and age. Bear in mind science is inclusive of the sociology, behavioral sciences, and most definitely political science.
The quote is:
“The saddest aspect of life right now is that science gathers knowledge faster than society gathers wisdom.”
~ Isaac AsimovIsaac, I had read most of his books before I hit 20.
Much truth in that for these times, certainly.
And I can't fault good natured people, who are well read and researched who do take the time to understand the efforts being hoisted upon 'Western Civilization' today as trying to move the world in the right direction.
These efforts are of course masked to appear as needed or beneficial.
However, the people behind them are more convinced in their rightness than anyone in these forums, they can be ruthless and they are relentless.
These are people who think it was money well spent to send more than half a million Ukrainians to fight and die in a war they could never win... it has only two endings now, any chance of Russia falling apart, of Putin being overthrown, of the world abandoning Russia and leaving it to its fate are done.
To be clear, we reached the point a while back where all this was known by any sane, rational strategist.
Ukraine has 0% chance of "winning" as being removing Russia from the Donbas region already incorporated into the Russian Republic... or Crimea.
As this war continues, they will continue to lose more territory.
UNLESS we escalate the war... and that escalation will mean the end of civilization as we know it. The demise of America as we know it.
And we (NATO) are escalating it. Macron the UK and Germany green lit using long range weapons to strike into Russia mere days ago.
Ukraine does not have the assets to strike into Russia on its own... only Western Intelligence and Western Satellites and Western Weapons can strike into Russia.
Which is proving Putin's warnings and fears that he has given speeches about for a decade now, 100% correct.
It was a plan written about long ago, and these old fools who have been in DC for so long, who are so detached from reality, are trying to implement a decades old plan against a nation/world that has changed so much there is 0% chance of them coming to fruition.
This war began two decades ago, it started with elections and overthrow efforts in Georgia, Ukraine, Syria, all of which have failed.
And as we waste hundreds of billions of dollars every year in these efforts, and as we waste or destroy hundreds of thousands, millions of lives our "enemies" only get stronger... attacking our nation from within while we spend away our National fortune on feeding the Military Industrial Complex and wrecking nations.As usual when it comes to Ukraine...you are WRONG.
You do need to stop watching and reading russian media. They don't tell the truth.
Actually, it is russia, who will soon reach the milestone of having lost over 500,000 military personal in the war.
Just on an aside BTW, go enjoy your day(s) and don't take anything I say too seriously (no matter how it appears).
We are so damned close to really bad things happening right now... and we have so many idiots making decisions, for us, France, the UK, that I wouldn't get worried about what comes in November.
Good chance the world is going to be very different before we get there.
Sentencing in five weeks, Trump will appeal and be spared the prison sentence until the appeal is heard. We will have to listen to his claims of a rigged trial for a few more years. If the verdict is upheld, Trump will ditch his secret service and flee to Russia to join Tara Reade.
Yeah, I forget which news service I read this headline on, but it said that Putin and company were very upset with the verdict. Since I don't subscribe to whichever it was, I didn't get to read the story. Probably was Apple News.
In spite of a few health issues this month, this news has been the elixir that fixes all that ails me.
I revise the classic Hawthorne novel, The Scarlet Letter", and make it contemporary, that letter now being "F" for Felon.
The Democrats can pummel Trump with this forever, "Felon in Chief"? Turn the flow issue into his very branding. How would Biden properly address the criminal as determined by a court of law, politics aside during the next debate?
This is it, he is through. His lemming type followers will follow him to hell, but middle of the road people could not imagine voting for Al Capone as President. This outcome with Trump is an outcome that will get the attention of an inattentive electorate as nothing else has. Let's see how Trump's poll numbers fare after this little revelation?
I advise the Judge and members of the jury to seek protection as the Rightwinger is predisposed to violence whenever they do not get their way.
Great News! He won't get away this time.....
Ahhh poor Credence, they just ensured Trump will be the most popular figure to ever run for President.
They are going to be forced to JFK him... if they don't Epstein him somehow.You can't even mention JFK when mentioning Trump, don't tarnish Kennedy's memory and legacy as Trump is no Kennedy.
You're are imagining things, Ken. Trump just got his ass kicked in a court of law today.
So, the Republican Party is going to offer a man convicted of 34 felonies as our next President? Who besides hard core Trumpers are going to take Trump seriously? You rightwing types better start scrambling around for a replacement candidate, tick tock........
The big tub of lard that he is, he just might well vapor-lock on his own accord. I certainly don't want to make a martyr out of him.Once they realize (even the slow witted snobs) what they have done, that they have all but ensured he gets elected in a land slide...
Do you think they are going to let him get elected?
Do you think they are going to let him take America OUT of the Global Compact on Migration and OUT of the Paris Accord and END the war against Russia and STOP allowing billions to flow to IRAN, etc. etc.?
Just like they let Kennedy break the CIA into a thousand pieces, right?Trump is not President, Ken. And at this point he probably wont ever be.
I think that this case and its stark conviction will draw many away from Tump. Landslide? Don't make me laugh...NPR Polls as biased as they are have already shown in their polls this doesn't hurt Trump or help Biden.
And the NPR doesn't poll 'deplorables'.
The only way Trump doesn't win 2024 is if something happens to him.
Most people know this... even a lot of Democrats.
This is a good take, not perfect, but middle of the road... realistic:
O'Reilly on Trump Verdict: 'This is a Mischaracterization of Justice'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANLe4_w0RVsWe will see, let the medicine sink in and wait for it.....
So hang on to your imaginary friend for as long as you can....
How does the GOP present this guy come convention time?Martyr. He slept with that porn star for America. He cheated in the election for his base.
And the girl who willy submit was being let go. Is this America?
Imaginary friend... that's so cute.
Do you know how many of the 75 million people who voted for Trump in 2020 will likely switch there vote now?
I'd say the likely number is between 0 and 1...
Russian Traitor, Putin Puppet, how many times was he Impeached?
None of that impacted those 75 million voters...
I don't think they are going to be impressed by the looney left NY State Stalin Courts. No matter how many guilty verdicts they bring down.
I guess if you are a diehard Democrat you just don't get it.
I understand, really do, those who are plugged into believing anything coming from MSNBC... CNN... think this is going to make a huge impact... that is what the MSM is telling them, so it must be true.
It just confirms what those Trump supporters already thought... what matters is how many Americans since 2020 have pulled the wool from their eyes and see more clearly what is going on.
Or how many are just sick and tired of going to the grocery store and paying double what they did just a couple years back.
As for how they will present him?
Like the Icon the Democrats have made him out to be...
Pro-America 1st... Anti-Globalist... Peace not War guy that he is.But, now he is a convicted felon, Ken, and that is a horse of a different color. We are going to remind the electorate of that every day and in every way. A major political party is offering me a convicted criminal as a candidate for President?
Like I said, as a betting man, I would say that Trump is through. This will create pandemonium within the GOP itself. Wouldn't I like to be the fly on the wall to watch the ensuing brawl....
As for you and the Republicans, Ken, you all can keep hope alive.I know they are...
Which is why he is going to win in a landslide...
As I said, the only way he does not is if they JFK or Epstein him.
You would think they might have learned something from 2016, but nope, they have doubled down on the stupidity and are making him the focus for a lot of people sick and tired of being sick and tired.It doesn't even occur to Ken that enough people in the country just might find Trump unfit for the position. This is the type of brainwashing we see from the right. He lost by seven million votes and then there's just no possibility that more people will be turned off by someone who, since leaving office:
- Eliminated the basic body autonomy rights of half the voting population
- Organized and Incited a domestic terror attack on his own country
- Incited a domestic terror attack on an FBI field office
- Was found liable for rape and defamation
- Was found guilty of business fraud, including once to cheat in a presidential election
And his record has the following accomplishments:
- Lied to the country about the dangers of a deadly pandemic that cost hundreds of thousands of additional American deaths compared to our contemporaries
- Added $7.8 trillion to the country's debt in just four years
- Left office with a net-negative jobs gain
- Used his elected office to personally profit off of the taxpayers
- Violated the basic human rights of children while in office
- Alienated our allies and coddled our enemies
To the MAGA cult, none of these things seem to register as reasons why more people will be against Trump in 2024 than they were in 2020.
- Sorry, but I just can't stop laughing. It was Trump who sucked up to Putin, not the Democrats. It is Putin and Company who now are upset that their favorite American puppet is now a convicted felon. Putin hates Hillary. Putin hates Democrats. Republicans have short memories. Democrats aren't commies, so who does that leave?
So far, it's been proven that Trump's Campaign colluded with Russia in 2016 and that he violated campaign finance laws to get elected. Unfortunately, his win-at-all-costs approach only endears him to his followers. Which says as much about his followers as it does about him, that they really lack any scruples or ethics. That the ends justify the means, even illegality.
There is nothing to celebrate. If these crimes had been revealed in 2016, we would have been spared a Trump presidency. That would have been something to celebrate.
Returning to summer Hiatus.If being a felon equates to popularity, that's a pretty sad standard for a political party to have. And is anyone surprised to hear a MAGA supporter talking about violent solutions? And they wonder why we think of MAGA as a domestic terrorist cult...
'And he presided over a peaceful time and good economic time... until the Pandemic...'
He inherited that peaceful time and good economic conditions from Obama and Biden, and then he allowed a pandemic to reach our shores, despite being left guidelines on how to prevent just such a thing - which he then ignored. So, he gave Biden an economy to rebuild. Just like Bush gave to Obama. And it's a great rewrite of history as our allies that we abandoned would not agree that it was peaceful during Trump's term. It wasn't peaceful when our troops were attacked because Trump chose to assassinate another country's top general. But that is what we so often see from Trump's faithful - they try and rewrite history to make Trump look much better than many Americans remember him.Some interesting debates about whether Trump should serve prison time.
Pro-Prison: It was 34 felonies. Cohen served time for the same crime. Trump's conduct and illegal acts during the trial should factor in.
Anti-Prison: He's a first-time offender. He's old. His wealth might keep him out.
Thoughts?I don't need prison more than I just want his humiliation on the public stage and a dashing of any hopes of his to be our next president.
Perhaps he will just go away and move into quiet obscurity but I would not count on it.Yup... that is the mindset that Biden and the MSM will continue to espouse.
Locking in his 75 million supporters, energizing them.
Meanwhile... the people really not interested in all the BS are going to look at their wallets... interest rates... the wars... whatever it is that they are most concerned about... and unlike in 2020 when Biden got a pass and people could hope he would bring about normalcy... they know better now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Q6__XrbEy0
How foolish is America? To vote Trump in the first place, when the so call Trump sins are already apparent? Decades ago, Richard Nixon fell from the Presidency. An American Minister and Preacher, Rev. Kenneth E. Hagin, now late, wrote down in a book 'I Believe Visions' that what befelled Nixon, was the fault of Americans, in not wishing him the best as President. How does this related to Trump here? Any Judge who later will sentence Trump should go and hang themselves in shame. Or let such a judge pardon Trump.
I have been ignored over it before, and I don't mind being ignored again -- but it's kind of sad to see anyone not capable of creating some happiness in their own life, but instead letting that happiness depend on the unfoldment of a political charade. A lot of miserable patriots out there in a most prosperous country in the world.
Actually so much so that it's apparently worth playing a political prophet and imagining all kind of outcomes.
Ultimately, nothing will change, no matter who becomes the president, nothing ever did for an ordinary Joe whose markers of prosperity never changed because this or that political careerist got to sit in White House.
Those 30 million medically uninsured people will stay uninsured, and those half million homeless will stay homeless, no matter who is hugging the American flag.
As for Trump, he might even get a hypothetical life sentence without ever seeing the prison from inside, simply because it's possible to use the law to prevent it -- like his family's fixer Roy Cohn was teaching him.
And, as for Biden, the dude is guilty of indirectly causing all those deaths in Ukraine -- just because NATO had to spread more eastward, and into the very neighborhood of Russia. Remember 1964 and the Cuban crisis, when the roles were reversed -- when Soviets wanted their military installations on Cuba, America almost started a world war just to prevent it. How about a double standard these days when Russians are not allowed to protect their own security?
This little just to show how I am not a Biden ass-kisser either, and even though no one really cares about opinion of a Canadian political cynic, I can't but wonder how could one America fall to such a poor choice between two old geezers, each wanting to make a big political splash before they kick the bucket.
Thank you for reading, I won't be responding to any comments to this, as I have nothing more to say. Going to enjoy the rest of this beautiful spring morning.Congratulations, you have swallowed the hook, the line, and the sinker!
So long for now, I am motivated to focus exclusively on my writing, and that aspect of HP, for as long as there's still an opportunity here to do so.Anyone else waiting for a Trump supporter to be like, 'man, if he didn't cheat on his current wife, multiple times, this never would have happened'?
Another thing being mentioned is that Trump is using this as a litmus test for his GOP. If you support the American justice system, you are now a traitor to MAGA. So, people like Larry Hogan and Mo Brooks who support our legal system will be expelled from the GOP if they see validity in a jury arriving at decision based on evidence. This decision will fracture the party as Trump alienates those who support the American justice system and kicks them out of the party.Suspicious meetings between anti-Trump prosecutors and White House officials
Members of Alvin Bragg's, Jack Smith's and Fani Willis' teams met with Biden staffers before their trials against the former president.
The accusations against Donald Trump immediately after Joe Biden was placed under investigation do not seem so like such a coincidence after all. At least three meetings between White House officials and the prosecutors investigating the former president have been confirmed. The first was the case Stormy Daniels, prosecuted by Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg the same day that President Biden's classified documents case was discussed. Special counsel Jack Smith filed charges over Trump's Mar-a-Lago documents right as the FBI began investigating a case of bribery by Joe Biden when he was Obama's vice president. When Fani Willis took Trump to court in Georgia, her team will meet at least twice with Biden staffers.
Alvin Bragg
Manhattan's controversial district attorney filed charges against the former president for allegedly paying former adult film actress Stormy Daniels to deny having an extramarital affair just before the 2016 election on April 4, 2023. That same day, former Biden assistant Kathy Chung contradicted Biden's story about the handling of classified documents found in several of his private properties and offices. Bragg had requested a meeting with Biden staff on March 17, anticipating Trump's indictment.
Jack Smith
A detailed analysis of the White House entry logs allowed Breitbart to observe that members of special counsel Jack Smith's team went to the president's official residence before the accusation against Trump over the classified Mar-a-Lago documents materialized. According to Breitbart, Caroline Saba, deputy chief of staff in the White House counsel's office, and Jay Bratt, a senior advisor to Smith, met a few weeks before filing charges against the former president, which happened on June 8. This 'coincidentally' occurred hours after the FBI delivered a report to the House of Representatives on the investigation of Biden's possible participation in a $5-million bribery scheme when he was vice president.
Fani Willis
The complaint filed by Michael Roman's defense against Fani Willis for maintaining a "improper relationship" with special prosecutor Nathan Wade, who was hired by her to investigate Trump's alleged "election interference" in Georgia, revealed that Wade met members of the White House staff on two occasions before taking the case to court.
https://voz.us/suspicious-meetings-betw … s/?lang=enTHIS from MSNBC
Most DAs wouldn’t have pursued this case against Trump. Alvin Bragg got lucky.
Let’s be honest with each other. Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg’s case against former President Donald Trump was convoluted.
A 12-person Manhattan jury found former President Donald Trump guilty on 34 felony counts in what was an enormously risky case to bring, with unfairly high stakes. Let’s be honest with each other. Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg’s case was convoluted, and the jury convicting Trump shows that he got lucky in this case.
The stakes were so high because it appears the so-called hush money case will be the only criminal prosecution pending against Trump that will be tried before an election that might put him back in the White House. Because it’s the first and maybe the only one we’ll see, the Manhattan case, clearly the weakest of the four criminal cases brought against Trump, became a symbol of all of the criminal cases that Trump faces.
Like some grotesque legal version of Frankenstein’s monster, the case morphed into an amalgamation of all of the cases pending against Trump. It was at once, according to prosecutors, a documents case and an election interference case. But one case should never have been seen as a referendum on whether the criminal justice system can hold Trump to account.
That’s why today’s verdict feels like a catastrophe averted for those who believe in the rule of law and have been screaming from the rooftops that our former president threatens it.
Trump should be punished for any criminal acts he committed, no matter if they happened before, during or after he was president. But the federal and state charges that he sought to interfere with the peaceful transfer of power and the other federal indictment that says he unlawfully retained classified documents make better, stronger cases. It’s unfortunate that the case based on the accusation that he paid money to an adult film actress to keep her quiet about an alleged affair in the run-up to the 2016 election may be the only one that’s fully prosecuted.
The jury convicted him of all 34 counts despite of how convoluted the case was.
Jurors were first asked to find that Trump falsified business records. That is, they were asked to find that when Trump made the payments in question to his fixer Michael Cohen, he was not, in fact, paying Cohen for legal fees as Trump’s documents indicated but repaying Cohen for the hush money payments that Cohen made to Stormy Daniels to stop her from sharing her story of an alleged affair with Trump.
But by itself, the falsification of business records is a misdemeanor. So to kick this up to a felony, prosecutors needed jurors to keep clearing hurdles. The second hurdle jurors were asked to clear was to find that Trump falsified those records “with intent to defraud and intent to commit another crime and aid and conceal the commission thereof.” While prosecutors didn’t need to prove that this other crime was committed, to win a conviction, they did need to show that the records were falsified with the intent to commit and conceal that crime.
So what is that other crime? Here Bragg’s office pointed to a New York state election law that prohibits promoting an “election of any person by unlawful means.” But this prompts the question: What are those “unlawful means?”
Which brings up the third hurdle.
Third, prosecutors pointed to a violation of federal election law as those “unlawful means.” Specifically, prosecutors argued that the payments Cohen made to Daniels should be seen as a contribution to the Trump campaign, which was both over the contribution limit and undisclosed.
Prosecutors needed to clearly lay the path for jurors to make their ways across the legal forest to the end of the road: a conviction. But the path they laid out for jurors in this case was neither clean nor tidy.
Any one of the other three criminal cases should have been the first to go to trial. But thanks to Judge Aileen Cannon’s foot dragging in the classified documents case, District Attorney Fani Willis’ questionable ethical behavior in the Georgia election interference case, and questions of the scope of presidential immunity in the federal election interference case, we may have just seen the single occasion in which Trump is tried in criminal court.
We know that in any criminal case, prosecutors need to prove to all twelve jurors, beyond a reasonable doubt, that the defendant committed criminal behavior. This is a high bar — and it should be. When criminal defendants are convicted, we can take away their liberty. We want to be sure we’re right before we incarcerate someone.
Even though the jury did convict him, there are still real legal issues that Trump will bring up on appeal. There may, for instance, be some question as to whether prosecutors can use the violation of a federal law to show actions by “unlawful means” under the New York state law. We could also ask the flip side of this question: Should the alleged violation of a state election law be used against a presidential candidate?
The hush money trial may be our only answer to the question of whether the criminal justice system can withstand the behavior of someone like Trump. That’s too bad. It is only one trial, and one trial cannot be a test of the entire criminal justice system. Add to that the fact that this was a complicated and serpentine case that most prosecutors probably wouldn’t have brought at all.
https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opi … rcna153628My Gawd that is a lot of word soup and shenanigan way of saying what we all know.
This was a POLITICAL and biased case NOT about Law or Justice but about persecution.
The crimes that the Clintons and Bidens have done are TENFOLD easier to prove... that the system DOESN'T hold them accountable, that the FBI ran interference for Clinton's crimes in 2016... PROVES everything Trump or anyone else claims about "The Swamp" to be TRUE!
Unless you are indoctrinated into the insane ideology driving all this... (Do I need to go down the whole Agenda 2030, Great Reset, New World Order mantra that isn't hidden and that Biden campaigned on) or a fanatical Party right or wrong supporter... then it is clear what this really is.
Its not hard to see... these efforts aren't restricted to Trump or America.
Look to Ireland and the restrictions on Free Speech, the Open Borders policy, and so on being forced there...
Look to Netherlands, Germany, etc. farmers are being shut down, their farms confiscated, and the Open Borders policy throughout the EU.
Look to Canada, the extreme lockdown on Foreign News, on Free Speech, they are becoming more like the CCP every day... don't forget how they seized all the assets of those pesky Truckers.
Nationalism alone is not under attack, that in and of itself isn't that meaningful... if your country doesn't have a Constitution that guarantees every citizen certain Rights and Freedoms.
Our Constitution is what is keeping us from becoming the EU... or becoming a mere subservient extension of the CCP.
That is what is at stake here.... and those working to undermine it try to trick Americans into believing it is Trump that threatens those things.
While at the same time opening our borders and bringing in millions of foreigners, putting them up in excellent 5 star hotels in NY... telling you Equality and Merit is wrong... what will be enforced now is Equity...
Projecting onto Trump and his supporters all that they themselves embody in terms of being 'threats to Democracy' or 'threats to America'. Almost in a strange Stockholm syndrome relationship between our government and its citizens.I referenced MSNBC to illustrate to the left that even those people have serious doubts about the validity of the case.
You are right. This is nothing but political lawfare at it's worst.
The push back from this abuse of the judicial system for political gain is going to be massive.Will it "be massive"?
Or is this the final destination to a fall that began back in the 60s?
You know... https://www.youtube.com/shorts/WrJCIIthtTc
Gotta love Chappelle he puts the truth right out there and then jokes it away... that still takes a spine to even joke about the truth is dangerous.
Or better yet... Tulsi telling it like it is:
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/4w6M4APyQ_w
The pundits pre-trial thought the case was weak, but when the evidence started coming out at trial, including the testimony of David Pecker right out of the gate, most changed their tune.
As to the commit and conceal a second crime, the New York statute does give cover with a New York law, as well as being able to rely on federal campaign finance laws and tax fraud laws, as well. There are multiple avenues to allow the charged crime to be elevated to felonies.Trump supporters try to doxx jurors and post violent threats after his conviction
On social media and web forums, users called for jurors, judges and prosecutors to be killed after the former president was found guilty on 34 felony counts.
“We need to identify each juror. Then make them miserable. Maybe even suicidal,” wrote another user on the same forum. “1,000,000 men (armed) need to go to washington and hang everyone. That’s the only solution,” wrote another user. “This s--- is out of control.”
“I hope every juror is doxxed and they pay for what they have done,” another user wrote on Trump’s Truth Social platform Thursday. “May God strike them dead. We will on November 5th and they will pay!”
It's only a matter of time. SMH"opinion of a Canadian political cynic," Always welcome.
So sorry, lets get it back on track then:
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/Qz9H8c0kbro
[EDIT] Sorry. Sorry, I meant this one:
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/eyRQfVI3Ff0So sorry to bring JOY into this, but while we are sharing:
https://youtube.com/shorts/DIbwA1CBzy4? … U7oFRcdrel
Trump Gets A 6-Point Bump In Approval Ratings After Guilty Verdict: Poll
Donald Trump's conviction Wednesday in the Stormy Daniels 'hush money' trial has increased the former president's popularity. A recent 'snap poll' by Daily Mail has found that the former president is now even more popular among his supporters after the guilty verdict against him by the Manhattan Criminal Court.
The 77-year-old became the first US president to be a convicted felon, which is historical for the nation. However, US laws don't prevent convicted individuals from contesting for president, and Trump is expected to make the best use of the conviction to boost his push for the November 2024 elections.
According to the Daily Mail snap poll, the former president's ratings among people who voted for him in 2020 shot up almost by six points after the conviction. 22 percent of the people surveyed said they now have a more favorable view of the presumptive Republican nominee, compared with 16% who view him negatively. Notably, for 62% of the surveyed, his ratings have remained the same.Ok, these are 400 people that voted for Trump in 2020.
As the Daily Mail reported, 22 percent said they view Trump more positively after the trial. That exceeds the 16 percent who said they now view him in a more negative light.
Trump appears to have gained an additional six percent of voters viewing him more favorably after the trial.
In the poll, 27 percent said they already viewed him positively and had no change in their opinion, while 32 percent said they already viewed him negatively.
If we consider the numbers as a whole, that means before this trial, the plurality of people viewed him negatively, but after it, the plurality may now view him positively.
Think about that - before the trial, when 400 former Trump voters were polled, they viewed him negatively. Now, he's likely just above .500. But yeah, keep telling us how he's going to win in 2024.I think it is evident the trial didn't hurt him with voters. It actually helped him in many ways. Many people now consider him a martyr for his beliefs in doing what is best for the country. He was a wealthy man who didn't need to go into politics. He did because he believed in the country. Now, the left has persecuted him for it because they can't beat him fairly. THIS is what is now believed by many people.
Trump verdict makes significant number of Republicans less likely to support him: poll
A Reuters/Ipsos survey of registered voters shows what Americans think about Donald Trump's guilty verdict.
A new poll conducted immediately following former President Trump's criminal conviction in New York found a significant number of Republicans say they are less likely to vote for him in November.
One in 10 registered GOP voters said Trump's felony conviction for falsifying business records would make them less likely to support him for president, according to a Reuters/Ipsos poll that closed on Friday.
The poll also found that a majority of Republican voters, 56%, said the outcome of the case would have no effect on their vote and 35% said they were even more likely to support Trump.
Even so, the potential loss of a tenth of Republican voters could decimate the presumptive GOP nominee's chances to win back key battleground states President Biden claimed in his 2020 victory over Trump.
Among independent registered voters, 25% said Trump's conviction made them less likely to support him in November, compared to 18% who said they were more likely and 56% who said the conviction would have no impact on their decision.
The Reuters/Ipsos survey showed Biden and Trump nevertheless remain in a tight race, with 41% of voters saying they would vote for Biden if the election were held today and 39% saying they would pick Trump. The poll surveyed 2,556 U.S. adults nationwide with a 2 percentage point margin of error for registered voters.
Most registered voters, 60%, said it was important for the three pending Trump trials to take place before the election, compared to 39% who said it was not important and 1% who did not answer the question.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump- … t-him-pollWow! Thanks for bringing that to light. Interesting! And, presented by Fox News, too. How will its reader base react to it, I wonder.
They will deny it even exists as it does not back their preconceived notions of Trump being popular.
I suspect you are correct. His fund raising after the verdict does stand out, yet I would think it was emotionally driven. In other words, a shall we say knee jerk reaction.
I've heard it described as a financial middle finger.
I would go with that.Ha-ha Still emotionally driven as I see it. However, I am just one person certainly not representative of the public at large.
No, not emotionally driven, just an ability to see the bigger picture.
Over 485,000 donors have given $34 million to President Donald Trump's campaign in just six hours after the verdict.
This conviction isn't harming his donations.
"Trump 'Shatters' Fundraising Records After Guilty Verdict: '$34 Million Credited'
Donald Trump might have just converted his guilty verdict into gold. The former president's campaign sent out an email, saying they have received more than $34 million in donations within six hours of the hush money trial verdict, which held him guilty on all 34 counts.
"Trump Shatters Fundraising Records After Rigged Biden Trial Verdict. Today, the Trump campaign announced a record shattering small dollar fundraising haul following the sham Biden Trial verdict totaling $34.8 million - nearly double the biggest day ever recorded for the Trump campaign on the WinRed platform. Crooked Joe Biden and the Democrats with their election interference political witch hunt have awakened the MAGA movement like never before," the email read."
https://www.msn.com/en-in/news/world/tr … 2021-02-02Conservatives, Republicans, Rightwingers, whatever, here is another morsel of agony regarding your chosen Felon in Chief.
He can't very well be this country's emissary, when much of the developed world have restrictions regarding the entry of convicted felons.
https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-t … an-1906686
Like I said in an earlier post, Trump is through.......Credence, it's the New York justice system which I'm made to note is crude, unlike others. Yes, which nation will let a criminal or convict felon enter her country? And d' you think it's only felons? Decades ago, late boxing legend Muhammed Ali was sent as an emissary to Nigeria, under late President Alhaji Shehu Shangari government, by Ex- President Jimmy Carter. Ali land at Nigeria airport but was denied entry into the country. He was not a felon. The NewsWeek article is fair and balance. Its what I like. Seriously, Trump, was only convict at the NY Mahattan Court. Let's wait for the sentencing. Let's wait for the appeal. Then, only then is dance time.
The New York State court system is legitimate enough for me and Trump remains a convicted felon, regardless. What are we waiting for, he has already been declared guilty by a jury of his peers? The sentencing will not change that.
He can appeal through the New York State system, but there is no chance that the verdict can be changed between now and 5 months, the time for the election. The appeal process is far too involved. So the party will be long over before "dance time".
Jimmy Carter is still alive unless you have information that I have missed.
Agreed. I've re-edit the typo. So sorqy.
"One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We're no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It's simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we've been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back."
~Carl Sagan
So many bamboozled in this country.Well said.
It is incredibly difficult to acknowledge that you've been wrong and batted on the wrong horse all along. You've invested to much emotional bonding with it that it takes courage to self correct.
It's what also happens in abusive relationships. It's hard to step away as you've grown into it and constantly find excuses not to change.I read this and thought of biden and the democrats.
"Former President Trump and his allies have spent the hours since he was convicted in New York arguing the verdict will play out to his advantage in the end.
They could easily be wrong."
https://www.cbs42.com/hill-politics/the … s-benefit/It is almost comical to watch as Trump lovers declare the verdict could well help him and the Trump haters declare the verdict could well hurt him and help Biden.
We will know in November, won't we?Not as comical as Trump 'lovers' thinking a 34-count felony conviction will in any way expand his voting base.
Yes, wilderness I agree completedly with you. When 'the mighty fallen' its not good news to be happy against such souls. One will never know all. What if fotune, or karma later favour them? And like wilderness, I too 'rest my case' period
Yes, wilderness. I'm completely with you in that.
It appears the conviction has not hurt the popularity of President Donald Trump.
As of 6/2/24 President Donald Trump is leading biden.
If THIS bogus court case in NY doesn't damage the popularity of President Donald Trump, the democrats need to realize they are in a very bad position right now.
Begs the question of what do most people in the country see in this hush money trial that the democrats do not?
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/po … /national/Independents will be crucial..
"Roughly 49% of Independents in the poll said they believe Trump should drop out of the presidential race, just one day after Trump was convicted in his criminal trial in New York."
Additionally, 15% of Republican voters want Trump to end his 2024 bid after his felony conviction.
I think he will remain popular among his base but he has done absolutely nothing to grow that support and the base alone is not enough to win an election.
At this point, Trump should take his own advice and bow out of this race.
Let's revisit his words from 2016..he is speaking about Hillary Clinton....
The election of a president under indictment and facing criminal trial would “create an unprecedented constitutional crisis” and “cripple the operations of government”, Trump said.
Speaking at a rally in North Carolina in 2016...
"She is likely to be under investigation for many years,” Trump said, “and also it will probably end up – in my opinion – in a criminal trial. I mean, you take a look. Who knows? But it certainly looks that way.”.
Good heavens that did not age well did it?
He went on...in November 2016, Trump also said Clinton “has no right to be running, you know that. No right.”. REALLY?
He pressed on in Nevada:
“We could very well have a sitting president under felony indictment and ultimately a criminal trial. It would grind government to a halt.”.
And in Denver ...
And because Clinton was “the prime suspect in a far-reaching criminal investigation”, it would be “virtually impossible for her to govern”. IMPOSSIBLE TO GOVERN? REALLY?
So what do we do now with these nuggets of wisdom and sage advice of Trump? Was he just wrong then or is he a hypocrite now??
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 … t-comments
https://www.yahoo.com/news/poll-finds-4 … 39335.html"At this point, Trump should take his own advice and bow out of this race."
Bow out of a race he is winning?
Defeating all of the bogus lawfare actions against him?
THAT would make no sense.
President Donald Trump wins in November and it will be one of the most incredible political comebacks in US history.According to his own words (quoted in my previous post), his beliefs, as stated in 2016 in regard to Hillary Clinton, yes he should bow out.
Seems a bit hypocritical based on his past statements.
Why don't his previous statements apply to his current situation?
Do his supporters care what this man says? When he is not outright lying he contradicts himself continually.
He stated regarding Clinton..
“the prime suspect in a far-reaching criminal investigation”, it would be “virtually impossible for her to govern”.
But not for him?
“We could very well have a sitting president under felony indictment and ultimately a criminal trial. It would grind government to a halt.”.
Doesn't apply to Trump?
"A candidate under federal investigation 'has no right to be running.' Further, it would be 'virtually impossible for (a president under indictment) to govern.'"
But his situation is somehow different?
One meme I saw today said it all
biden is at a podium and says, "What does it say about Republicans that there candidate is a convicted felon?"
A reporter responds, "What does it say about democrats that their candidate is trailing in the polls to a convicted felon?"
This puts it in perspective.I've rest my case already. This type of what I called nonsense political logic still puzzle me. November is calling. I wait to see.
This should be an interesting investigation...
https://www.propublica.org/article/dona … l-benefits
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVRrOuTBDbsThis one should go viral...Colin Cowherd, a sports talk guy, weighed in on Trump and the recent verdict. Definitely worth a listen.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehi2y0vuRKQYup. He was great.
“Donald Trump is now a felon,” Cowherd said. “His campaign chairman was a felon. So is his deputy campaign manager, his personal lawyer, his chief strategist, his national security adviser, his trade advisor, his foreign policy advisor … they’re all felons... “If everybody in your social circle is a felon, I don’t think it’s ‘rigged,’” Cowherd added. “I don’t think the world’s against you. And to get people to agree on anything, 34 counts? Zero for 34? That’s a batting slump even the New York Mets could be impressed with.”Yeah, when he listed all the people in Trump's orbit that were felons, with half made felons under Trump's presidency, it really makes the point.
And how many of them were convicted felons before Trump became President?
Probably zero?
Some of them formerly had the highest security clearance known.
Turn on Trump or be destroyed?
Go against the Swamp and become gator food?
Thanks for sharing this. I guess the most moving part is that all of Trumps entourage are criminal felons as well, so he can't be as pure as wind driven snow.
Debate time is coming up, I am awaiting his solution to our problems outside of just bashing Biden, and while he is at it he can tell us all how he plans to "beat the rap" before convention time.
Michael Cohen's family doxxed after Trump guilty verdict in porn star hush money case
The latest doxxing attempt fits into a pattern of threats against people who speak out against former President Donald Trump.
The addresses and phone numbers of former Trump lawyer Michael Cohen's family members were posted to a doxxing website after presumptive Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump was convicted of 34 felony counts in connection with a scheme to illegally influence the 2016 election.
Phone numbers and addresses for Cohen's wife and children were posted early Monday on a site that has been used to target other figures involved in Trump’s various legal issues, according to Advance Democracy, a nonprofit research group.
Trump supporters tried to dox jurors last week after his conviction, and they also targeted prosecutors and the judge in the case with threats. During the trial, the mother of a former police officer who was nearly killed on Jan. 6, 2021, by rioters who believed Trump's lies about the 2020 election was "swatted" after her son called Trump "an authoritarian" with "a violence fetish."Excerpt from an Atlantic article with the opinion expressed by former Treasury Secretary, Larry Summers regarding our current inflationary woes:
So what solution is provided by our “stable genius” besides attack the Biden programs?
Here is an example of a hair brained scheme, one that Trump has obviously not vetted, because he is not a thinking sort of man. See below, while Biden has made a mistake, what is the Trump solution except to dig us in even deeper?
——————
Among prominent economists, no one was more explicit than former Treasury Secretary Larry Summers in warning that President Joe Biden and the Federal Reserve Board risked igniting inflation by overstimulating the economy in 2021. Soaring prices over the next few years proved Summers correct.
Now Summers sees the risk of another price shock in the economic plans of former President Donald Trump. “There has never been a presidential platform so self-evidently inflationary as the one put forward by President Trump,” Summers told me in an interview this week. “I have little doubt that with the Trump program, we will see a substantial acceleration in inflation, unless somehow we get a major recession first.”
Summers is far from alone in raising that alarm. Trump’s greatest asset in the 2024 campaign may be the widespread belief among voters that the cost of living was more affordable when he was president and would be so again if he’s reelected to a second term. But a growing number of economists and policy analysts are warning that Trump’s second-term agenda of sweeping tariffs, mass deportation of undocumented migrants, and enormous tax cuts would accelerate, rather than alleviate, inflation.
In an upcoming analysis shared exclusively with The Atlantic, Mark Zandi, the chief economist for Moody’s Analytics, forecasts that compared with current policies, Trump’s economic plans would increase the inflation rate and force the Federal Reserve Board to raise interest rates higher than they would be otherwise. “If he got what he wanted,” Zandi told me, “you add it all up and it feels highly inflationary to me.”So... you want us to believe that letting those that have run the economy into the worst situation we have seen in decades, worse than '08 having to go back to the late 70s... the ones spending 1 Trillion dollars of debt every 100 days... is the way to go.
Because what they say Trump will do will be worse.
Despite the fact that when he was President last time, it was better than it had been in 30 years.
Yeah... say a lie enough times and for some people it becomes the truth."Despite the fact that when he was President last time, it was better than it had been in 30 years."
-------
Everything was better pre-covid, Ken. Much like the adage, "hindsight is always 20/20". That is Trump to a "T".
All he had to do was sit on his duff basking in the glow of Obama and riding the wave of his hard work to repair the economy from 2008. Trump did nothing then and he will do nothing now. So, what going to stop inflation under the Trump regime? Answer, more tax cuts for the rich...
Trump and Republcans still suck in my humble opinion, just how dumb do rightwinged oriented sorts think people are?Another attempted re-write of history there by the far-right. The economy was great in 2016 and Trump cut a few regulations and increased deficit spending to help the stock market in his first year. He was basically throwing money the country didn't have into the economy to make some marginal gains. Then he ignored the pandemic playbook he was left, allowed the virus to reach our shores, and tanked the great economy he was left.
That tanking saw millions lose jobs, thousands of businesses shutter, and the most debt during a four-year term in the history of the presidency. The right can delude themselves all they want about how many years Trump served in office, but the rest of us count all four of his years, and his disastrous response to a global emergency.It is imperative that President Biden make a succinct but accurate time line as to how we really got here in the first place. The debate might well be the medium that Biden desperately needs to use to his advantage to show Trump as the lying clown that he is.
Bets are on that Trump just won't show up?OMG! The Kenndy show? Am I or who is trying to recall? Did biden took the advice of MS Pelosi? Biden don't show up in 2020?
But now to face a convicted felony, who all Dem based or warped minds expect to be jailed?
SHAME.I don't think you could be more wrong about President Donald Trump.
I believe he is salivating at the opportunity to debate the cognitively impaired biden. My only concern is if it will be conducted in a fair way. democrats are not know for playing fair during debates.
hillary clinton was given the questions for debates with President Donald Trump ahead of time, and that is just ONE of the ways democrats always have and always will play dirty and cheat.We disagree and are opposite poles regarding Trump.
Mike, we will compare the so called cognitively challenged with the insanity of a madman. I welcome the debate where Trump will have to answer direct questions without his usual BS disruptions or any audience to fawn over him. He will screw up and go ballistic, because self control is not part of his character. And we will all get to see it live on TV.
When it comes to lies, corruption and cheating when compared with Republicans, the Democrats are rank amateurs.
Like I said, the "Felon" medicine has been delivered and it will have its desired effect, we will all wait for it"Felon" medicine has been delivered and it will have its desired effect, we will all wait for it"
And the "Felon" medicine has been an increase in poll numbers and record breaking campaign donations, from small amount doners.
It isn't over. I feel strongly it will be overturned on appeal. It was one of the most bizarre legal cases in the history of the United States. A state convicting a person on federal crime. Never done before. Shouldn't have been done now.
The bottom line is that biden is ruling like a dictator. He has bogus legal charges to convict his political opponent. If President Donald Trump wasn't leading in the polls, this action would have never been brought against him.
This can't be left to stand.We will see if my prediction does not come to fruition. And if it does as I suspect, Trump is through.
Your right about the grounds for appeal, the problem is it will take months, far too long to change his current felon status before election and that is my consolation in this matter.
This case was brought by New York prosecutors. Blaming it on President Biden is just another of the lies from Trump and MAGA that the Democrats are the reason for all of Trump's misfortune, criminality and corruption. I can only hope in the coming weeks that people begin to actually sort the wheat from the chaff. I am counting on it, that the "medicine" takes its proper effect.I suppose you would support a full investigation into the communication between the NY prosecutor and the biden administration?
How do you explain Matthew Colangelo, who was number 3 at biden's Department of Justice leaving his job to go and work for the NY district attorney's office during the investigation of President Donald Trump?
Alvin Bragg Prosecutor's Connection to Biden Raises MAGA Alarms
https://www.newsweek.com/alvin-bragg-pr … on-1892930Yes, I would support such a communication, as it will show clearly that the President has nothing to hide, how much is Trump hiding?
Circumstantial occurrence does not mean that Biden is orchestrating what happens in New York State courts, you will have to do better.
Why should I be concerned about MAGA alarms being raised? There has been more than a few specious things that they have raised their arms up over already.Watch the testimony from the Congressional Judicial Committee from yesterday.
He raises some very interesting questions.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiyzRWuo9DAHe raised interesting questions, but he just as well be in an echo chamber because none of them were either answered or acknowledged By Mr. Wray of the FBI. So, I just have to listen to a MAGA talking?
'A state convicting a person on federal crime.'
When are you going to stop lying about the crimes that Trump was convicted of? Business fraud is a state crime. They simply elevate to felonies when done in service of another crime. That statute had other state crimes and one federal crime proven during trial to prove why it was a felony charge.
Madman... who are we labeling with that?
The one that continues to escalate his war with Russia?
The one that released hundreds of billions to Iran and we now have chaos sewn throughout the Middle East?
The one who pushed Saudi Arabia and the UAE into China/BRIC's arms?
The one who spends a trillion dollars in debt every 100 days?
The one who has let in millions of unvetted foreigners and bends over backwards to please them... while ignoring the millions of homeless and struggling Americans?
The one who supports men competing with women in sports, who supports child mutilation?
Who is the Madman?
I guess you have forgotten the low unemployment, low inflation and secure border. Trust me, business was MUCH better under the administration of President Donald Trump.
I do not remember a secure border, no. Because the facts dispute that claim as the numbers continued to increase during Trump's term until the pandemic hit. I remember Trump claiming it was secure because he violated the basic human rights of children.
As for low unemployment, Trump took office when that rate was 4.2% already. At his best, he dropped it just .7% to 3.5%. Big whoop. Obama, early in his term, inherited unemployment at 10% and lowered it to that 4.2%. When Biden took office, that unemployment rate was 6.7%, thanks to Trump's disastrous response to the pandemic. It is now 3.9%. So, the right thinks a .7% improvement should get all the credit over a 5.8% and 2.8% improvement.
As for inflation, Obama had a 1.4% inflation rate during his eight years. The rate was actually higher under Trump at 1.9%, so worse than what he was left. It's been bad, globally, during Biden's term and he comes in at 5.7%. This page has a chart where you can search all countries and see that inflation affected everyone, meaning, that it wasn't really a Biden-caused issue as everyone experienced the same rise. People that understand the basic economics of the situation understand this.
https://www.ft.com/content/088d3368-bb8 … 680d4d81b2
As to your claim that business was much better under Trump, with the amount of facts that get omitted by the MAGA cult to make their claims, they are the last people anyone would ever trust.There is so much wrong here I'm on going to address one of them.
When biden took office, inflation was at 1.4%.Sure, but that is not what I wrote, now was it? During Trump's 4-year term, inflation averaged 1.9%, higher than Obama's 1.4% during his eight years. Quoting an inflation rate just before vaccines arrived is as disingenuous as saying gas was $2 under Trump (at the height of the pandemic when people were locked down).
Talk about a "fair" debate, Mike -- Trump was warned that his microphone would be silenced if he wouldn't stop interrupting Biden at their debate.
As for "cognitively impaired", it takes a blind person not to notice Trump's irrational statements, his misreading the teleprompter, his misspelling at Twitter, his mistaking the name of the city where he is having the rally. A linguistic expert said, Trump has a "vocabulary of an adolescent", and over 25 psychiatrists made a book-size report about his having psychiatric disorders. Are all of those professionals "hateful lefties"?
On the other hand, both, Biden and Trump should retire from politics, they are too old and "mentally disconnected" for the challenges of being a president. We are witnessing just two old and stubborn geezers wanting to make a big political splash before they kick the bucket.
And by the way, Trump lies all the time, like when he said in one video how he "never said that Clinton should go to jail" -- with right away shown in other several occasions where he said exactly that.
And that same "very stable genius" -- as he called himself, said how "hurricanes should be nuked", and the "sound of wind-turbines is causing cancer", and "covid infection should be treated by injecting detergents".
Again, it's useless defending either of them, they should both retire.
And, as far as I care, let all of you American patriots vote for your own beloved geezer, to me it makes no difference -- it's just that we should not make up stories against one and forget the same kind of stories about the other.
To me, politics is just a crazy charade and I am having fun observing the clowns' routines.All sounds well and good, Val, but we are stuck with only two choices, which one would you select?
"Trump's irrational statements, his misreading the teleprompter, his misspelling at Twitter, his mistaking the name of the city where he is having the rally. A linguistic expert said, Trump has a "vocabulary of an adolescent", and over 25 psychiatrists made a book-size report about his having psychiatric disorders. Are all of those professionals "hateful lefties"?
Depends on what you consider irrational. When did he misread a teleprompter?
"A linguistic expert said, Trump has a "vocabulary of an adolescent"
At yet, he communicates quite effectively to tens of thousands of people on a regular basis. His political rallies are always overflowing. Seems his vocabulary is just fine.
"25 psychiatrists made a book-size report about his having psychiatric disorders"
And how many of those psychiatrists actually conducted a professional evaluation of him? NONE. I don't know about in Canada, where you are at, but here in the United States there is something called the "Goldwater rule." Same thing was tried against Barry Goldwater in 1973.
"Section 7 in the American Psychiatric Association's (APA) Principles of Medical Ethics,[1] which states that psychiatrists have a responsibility to participate in activities contributing to the improvement of the community and the betterment of public health, and when they are asked to comment on public figures, they refrain from diagnosing, which requires a personal examination and consent."
"hurricanes should be nuked", and the "sound of wind-turbines is causing cancer", and "covid infection should be treated by injecting detergents".
Never happened. Nice try.
As the most, completely rational, opinion, as anything said before in all the previous pieces.
Now Val, sit back and see who will respond in the "most" irrational way!"hurricanes should be nuked", and the "sound of wind-turbines is causing cancer", and "covid infection should be treated by injecting detergents".
'Never happened. Nice try.'
Val - this is the level of delusion we see from the MAGA cult. Anything that paints their cult leader negatively, they just cannot process. It's why a second Trump term is infinitely more dangerous than the alternative. Whatever actions Trump takes, no matter how incoherent, illegal, or dangerous, Trump's cult will find a way to excuse or ignore it.Mike -- You misunderstood. I am not calling your presidential choice "wrong". It is your right to believe what you will. As far as I care, you can believe in Santa Claus and Tooth Fairy, and I won't call you "wrong".
But then I am also reserving my right to express what I think, and somehow you sounded like you were calling me "wrong".
Remember? - I didn't debunk your opinion about Biden, I just said what I thought about Trump.
Why was that bad?
I am not "debating" anything here, Mike. Debates are not about "what" is right, but "who" is right.
So, here, I am giving it to you in writing: You are 100% right to trust Trump, and I am 100% right not to see either Trump or Biden as the best choice for a president. There are those other parties to choose from.
Now, isn't freedom of speech a beautiful thing?
How is that for fairness.
And to be even more fair, I am done here, so there won't be any more of my opinions that you might dislike. You'll have to use some of these other fine people for sparring partners.
Have yourself a pleasant afternoon.
And I mean it.Here's a simple question for the Trump supporters in these forums...Did Trump break multiple laws?
We've heard many state that the statute of limitations is the issue because Trump supporters deny that these charges are felonies and only misdemeanors.
We've heard them say the use of campaign finance violations to bump the misdemeanors up to felonies is unconstitutional.
We've heard them say the motivation was political.
What we do not hear them say is that he didn't commit adultery, didn't commit business fraud, and that he didn't violate campaign finance laws.
So, do you as a Trump supporter concede that he broke multiple laws in 2016?This could result in a declared mistrial. This means the entire process would have to begin again from the beginning.
"NY v. Trump: Judge reveals Facebook post implying juror discussed guilty verdict before trial concluded"
The judge presiding over former President Trump’s New York criminal trial notified his defense team on Friday of a comment on the court's public Facebook page that implies one of the jurors discussed the guilty verdict with family before the trial concluded.
Fox News obtained the letter Judge Juan Merchan shared with Trump defense attorneys and Manhattan prosecutors.
'Today, the Court became aware of a comment that was posted on the Unified Court System's public Facebook page and which I now bring to your attention. In the comment, the user, ‘Michael Anderson,’ states:
"’My cousin is a juror and says Trump is getting convicted! Thank you folks for all your hard work!!!!’"
he post came a day before Trump was found guilty on all 34 counts of falsifying business records in the first degree. Trump had pleaded not guilty to all charges.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/ny-v-t … ty-verdictMike, most rational, informed individuals, who are dealing with reality know the 'fix' was in on all these NY court cases.
Most honest commentary coming from Judges and Lawyers elsewhere, even those appearing on CNN amazingly enough, have stated this will not stand on Appeal... from irregularities to the Judge being provably biased... it will never stand.
They don't need it to.
They just need to be able to abuse the system long enough to Jail him...
To take away his Secret Service and other governmental protections...
https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-b … fk-1892371
I'm just unsure which route they plan on taking... JFK or Epstein?
Trump's goose was cooked. What normal person even knows about a 'Unified Court System public Facebook Page?' Here is Meidastouch debunking the post.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20kj4MlGVVQ
$10 says Mike ignores it to cling to his own belief that a mistrial is warranted.No wonder, I always held the benefit of the doubt in certain questions like this. And that's why I said here and elsewhere, Trump, is not the American Messiah. Seriously, he's being undermined on many fronts. Why than hang him? Seriously again, I still had doubts about the foxnews story. Is it rdeal? Then, Judge Merchan, as a human being is right to report to the defense team only? i think thing is now seen as improper. When will America leave Trump alone?
Merchan had to provide notice that they were looking into the post. But the same person was posting this same post ten days prior to Trump's conviction on other pages. It's a troll, trying to troll.
Mike -- Normally, I don't return to a discussion after saying: "I am done here"; but I just happened to remember what you said about "Goldwater Rule", covering the question if mental health professionals are allowed to analyze a public figure without a professional procedure being done, and without the person's consent.
Well, I am not going to call that rule "wrong" -- because it MUST be right if it's the rule, right? ALL rules that we live by are supposed to be "right" rules, otherwise they wouldn't exist.
Except that the freedom of speech allows me to disagree with many rules, including that one.
Let the following example explain it.
The whole thinking world is agreeing that Hitler was a mentally sick and dangerous man, and I won't play with all those fancy names they are calling that sickness.
But I will ask you -- according to you, how do we know that it's true -- because he is ALSO protected by Goldwater rule, and never put on a shrink's couch where he would spill all the beans about his unhappy and traumatic childhood -- that kind of crap.
Again, let the rule be a rule, but in my particular mind, it's perfectly possible to diagnose somebody by their actions, their behavior, choice of words, their claims, and their display of emotions.
But then, who am I to know?
Oh, by the way, I remember you asking "when Trump misread teleprompter. Just for one example, and there are many -- he said "oranges" instead of "origins" -- and didn't bother correcting himself.
But now, as usual, it's your turn to say: "It never happened" -- while it's my turn to say, guess what? - I am really done here.But Trump, is only convicted, and yet to be sentenced. Who knows how the sentencing will run? For it's not an easy journey with Trump, right from day one. OMG! Trump, was being tried. And it was also being plan to convicted him, and it happened? Again, it was also being map that he be deprived of Secret Service Protection, in tandem with imprisonment sentencing? Madness.
See now, that is a naivety I wish I still enjoyed.
Its not really fun knowing how dishonest and illusionary our government is at running the reality show we are all watching, truly isn't.
Yes the NY AG and Judges and Prosecution and DOJ/FBI have worked diligently to 'weaponize' the Justice system.
Yes, it is reaching storied levels of corruption and overreach you only read about in the horror stories of Stalin's reign or Mao... remember this is not just Trump they are destroying, it is everyone who supports him, from Steve Bannon to Rudy Giuliani to all the attorneys in the various states where they fought the 2020 election results.
History is ripe with revolts and revolutions, far, far, more than we realize as America has enjoyed relative smooth sailing since 1868 or so, going back over 150 years.
No overthrows, no color revolutions, no conversion into a tyranny that history shows morphs into Stalinism or Nazism and goes off the deep end.
Hard to tell if we are there yet... if we are in the first stages of it and don't know it yet because we are living it.
We have foreign wars we are involved in that we will not win...I watch a lot of history, read about it, always have even as a kid.
This is probably what it looks like as a large 'empire nation state' collapses inwards. If you were living in the moment of it occurring.
Awww...look at the poor MAGA folk and their victim mentality. Still in denial that their leader committed multiple crimes during the 2016 and 2020 elections, then tried to illegally retain classified documents that his supporters know darned well that he didn't have any right to once he left office.
It'd be sad if they haven't been radicalized against their own country, some convinced to attack their own Capitol, others brainwashed to violently attack the FBI. We can see that radicalization directly in the posts at this site. Just look above. Too many in the MAGA movement think violence against their own government is the answer when that government holds their leaders to account for their many crimes - crimes that the base has been brainwashed to ignore or deny.
And yet, these poor, sad souls believe they are in the right. That the cause of violently threatening and attacking their own government is just. When the reality is that they have been convinced to be a part of a domestic terror cult.
Myself, I have no empathy for that kind of stupidity, for those that let themselves be conned in such a way. Like Ashli Babbitt, the guy who thought he could attack the FBI office in Cincinnati, or the thousands who thought there would be no repercussions for becoming terrorists on January 6 and now sit in jail or worse, their own inability to identify the lies and violent programming of a conman have ruined their lives. It's the highest form of Darwinism that currently exists.Some or certain crimes Trump, committed, I observed others do the same. Why are these not being charged and prosecuted smarks of bias or weaponized system, not 'darwinism'.
The article below is a guide as to how to treat Trump and his designation as a convicted felon. Democrats are far too timid. We get caught up in the Trumposphere.The portion of the atmosphere where the most bullish-t is to be found. We make the mistake of letting the Trumpers control the narrative, "use restraint in mentioning Trump's felony designation" and all that rot. Meanwhile, Trump and MAGA has plied us with lies and misrepresentations over the last 5 years, and the entire Republican Party is a corrupt cult because of one man. We have always taken the high road and brought a pea shooter to a gun fight. That does not work anymore. We are no longer dealing with "gentlemen", but with cult drones.
I say bash MAGA and Trump to a thousand shards. Play the felon line to the max, the people that we are so timidly worried about offending, if they cannot see the magnitude of what is involved would vote for Trump anyway, who needs them? Trump through his gang will try to make himself appear as just a regular political candidate and he is not, not by a long shot.
This felon designation is powerful and can reach and move normally inattentive, low information voters. That is far more significant than worrying about offending Trumpers.
The risks and stakes of allowing Trump and MAGA into power are so grave that we cannot afford to attack them half-assed, we gotta go full Monty. Their political destruction has to be our imperative, no holds barred if we are ever to be taken seriously.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/simple-trump … 54458.htmlWhen your "platform" is based on hate, anger and the assorted lie you will not be taken seriously anyway.
I thought that this message would go right over your head ,Wilderness, and I am not in the least bit surprised.
But its all politics. Come November 5. Every adult American has a choice whom to vote for.
If you really have been paying attention, Miebakaugh, you would recognize that more is involved than just politics.
It is part of our job as Democrats to explain to the American electorate what that choice would entail so they go to the voting booth informed.Yes, I agree completely to that. The GOP is also on the path to inform the electorate. That's politics pure and simple.
So, Miebakagh57, why do you love Trump so much? Just curious . . .
Tsmog, is not Trump, a human being? Well he is. Likewise, is not joseph biden human? Yes, he is. Mog, I'm an outssider and I'm reading both star-character carefully. If you're observing my posts or replies, you'll notice that I've not make the unpleasant remarks made against biden here, nor there. That's equally my love and liking for the grand-old-man, biden. Ts, critically, if all America Presidents, incluing VPs that were alive were to be investigated, d' you think none should on prosecution be found a felon?
You didn't answer the question!! No need to if you can't.
Okay. Trump is a human being. Does that satify you? Thanks.
Good of you, Tim. Many of us here hate Trump, because he's a lier, a rapist, a con man, and lately a convicted felon. I dare to look over becavse unimaginary deeds by certain persons has been adddd to Trump's sins.
I don't know if many people know of or have heard of the primary jurisdiction doctrine.
It states federal crimes are tried by the federal government.
A hearing before the congressional judiciary committee explains why the NY trial against President Donald Trump was absolutely bogus. Federal agencies should have intervened and stopped the proceedings but they didn't.
More proof the entire case was politically motivated.
Watch the committee hearing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onnz6M3g6qIHe was not charged with any federal crimes. How many times do you need that explained to you? He was convicted of a state crime. It was done in service of other crimes that elevated the state crimes to felonies.
How many times do you have to see, hear, or read his conviction?
What state crime? If you are talking about record keeping, the statute of limitations expired on that if it was based on the 2016 election. Based on NY law there had to be an underlying crime to move forward with the charges. This is where they brought in the federal election laws.
This is bogus because of the primary jurisdiction doctrine.
If the crimes are based on a federal election, they are federal crimes. federal crimes cannot be tried in state courts. That is why you should watch the video I provided from the Congressional Judiciary Committee.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onnz6M3g6qI
Federal election violations are addressed by the Federal Election Commission. They are the ones responsible for recommending cases to the DOJ.
That is where primary jurisdiction doctrine comes into play.
The federal government has primary jurisdiction over applying federal law.
The biden DOJ or FEC did not intervene in the NY trial and assert their authority in the case as they should have done.
This makes it political."This is where they brought in the federal election laws'
No, this is where they brought in New York Election Law Section 17-152.
Additionally, the DOJ has no authority to intervene in matters of state law.Sorry, you are wrong again.
NY State law does not have authority over federal elections. NY state law only has authority over state elections.
Federal elections are governed by the federal government.
Again, this comes under the heading of the primary jurisdiction doctrine. This is the reason the DOJ and FEC needed to intervene and assert their authority over federal elections.
The case was bogus and political. It had nothing to do with seeking justice. It was only brought because President Donald Trump was leading in the polls.
Solid proof this case was election interference.Why has not the Trump attorneys institute an appeal to the USA Supreme Court todate?
In the United States a case must first be heard by state appellate courts before they can be heard by federal courts.
Thank you, Mike. But has Trump's lawyers made moves to the NY State Apellate Court?
Yes, but these decisions can take several months and maybe even years before they provide a decision.
That's awful and terrible. Trump is leading in the poll. They just want to undermine him. Justice is also being deny him.
Thank you for your response.
It is nice to know someone from Nigeria can see what many in the United States seem unable or refuse to see.
"FEC commissioner questions DOJ's 'dangerous' decision not to intervene in Trump prosecution
Bragg 'usurped the jurisdiction that Congress has explicitly reserved for federal authorities'
Republican FEC Commissioner Trey Trainor will testify Thursday about the Department of Justice’s (DOJ) “dangerous” failure to intervene in Democratic Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg’s prosecution of former President Donald Trump.
During the House Judiciary Committee’s hearing on Bragg’s case against Trump, Trainor will explain that the DOJ’s decision not to intervene in the case sets a “dangerous precedent of local prosecutorial overreach in matters of federal concern” and unpack how Bragg “usurped the jurisdiction that Congress has explicitly reserved for federal authorities” when he attempted to enforce campaign finance law. A violation of federal campaign finance law was one of three possible crimes Bragg alleged Trump sought to cover up by falsifying business records.
Trainor, in testimony obtained exclusively by the Daily Caller News Foundation, argues that the Biden DOJ should have intervened when Bragg, a local prosecutor, effectively sought to enforce federal campaign finance law, arguing its failure to do so made Trump’s trial a major focus of the 2024 election.
“The fact that U.S. Supreme Court precedent is so decidedly in favor of jealously guarding the ability of federal agencies to enforce federal law leaves us to wonder why Attorney General Merrick Garland and the DOJ did not intervene in the prosecution of Donald Trump,” Trainor’s written testimony states. “The DOJ often touts its Memorandum Regarding Election Year Sensitivities as a reason for inaction on certain matters of a political nature. However, the purpose of the policy is to mitigate the affect legal actions have on providing an advantage or disadvantage to any candidate or political party.”
“I posit that if the DOJ had intervened early to protect the jurisdiction of the FEC and itself to prosecute federal campaign finance laws, we would not be here discussing this matter today and it wouldn’t be the preeminent topic of the 2024 presidential election,” he continues.
Missouri Attorney General Andrew Bailey and Florida International University law professor Elizabeth Foley are also expected to testify Thursday.
A Manhattan jury convicted Trump last month on 34 counts of falsifying business records relating to reimbursing Michael Cohen for a $130,000 nondisclosure agreement with porn star Stormy Daniels.
To bring the charges as felonies, Bragg alleged they were done to conceal or commit another crime: conspiring to influence the 2016 election through unlawful means.
The public still does not know, thanks to Judge Merchan’s instructions that did not require the jurors to agree on the secondary crime, which of the three unlawful activities alleged by prosecutors Trump was found guilty of concealing: a campaign finance violation, a tax violation or the falsification of additional business records.
https://www.wnd.com/2024/06/fec-commiss … osecution/More from the Congressional Judiciary Committee hearing concerning the President Donald Trump NY conviction.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXQes4iLdk0I'd like to see the questioning from the opposing side. These maga led committees always bring in testimony from Trump acolytes. Was this hearing a debate of any sort or just completely one-sided? All in all though, they seem not to contest his guilt just the fact that he was prosecuted at all. Which I find ridiculous
And they seem not be able to understand that the crime was business fraud. When that fraud is done in the service of another crime, it goes from a misdemeanor to a felony. The state showed that state election law was broken, tax laws were broken, and additional record keeping laws were broken. The federal election crime was not charged, although it was definitely proven to show why the business fraud was done. Which elevates that state crime to a felony and eliminates the statute of limitations claim that Mike keeps repeating.
"crime was business fraud."
Really? What fraud? Paying money to someone for signing a non disclosure agreement is not illegal.
"why the business fraud was done"
For the 2016 federal election?
Again, a federal election and not a state election.
Read about the primary jurisdiction doctrine.
Federal crimes are prosecuted by the federal government and not state governments. This case should never have been brought.
The chairman of the FEC doesn't understand why the DOJ didn't intervene and assert its authority. Furthermore, the FEC investigated these exact allegations and found nothing worth pursuing.
Proving this was a political move by the democrats and nothing more than election interference because President Donald Trump is leading biden in the polls.Can you name the specific Federal statute that Bragg used? If Trump was convicted of a Federal crime in Manhattan, certainly the exact violation would be listed. Charges were brought under what federal law? I see that only New York statutes are listed.
MAGA will continue to claim they used the federal laws. They lack the understanding to comprehend that only state laws were applied. It's the latest misinformation they are being fed from sources they trust, in this case, the elected reps that continue to gaslight them.
Again, when they are run through his business, the Trump Org, that's fraud. If he used his personal account, they would not have been illegal. And the New York statute only asks if they were done in service of a second crime. Clearly, there was a second crime...in fact, there were a few different second crimes to choose from. Making the state business fraud into felony counts.
And I agree it was a political move. It was a political move when Trump broke the law to conceal an affair with a porn star, breaking both state and federal campaign finance laws, as well as tax law. Just because you continue to want to ignore that the state election law exists, doesn't make your claims true. Or that you continue to want to excuse when your candidate cheats in a presidential election. The party of law and order, my a$$."broke the law to conceal an affair with a porn star
Again, paying a person to sign an NDA is not illegal. It is done all the time. There is no law broken here.
What was the second crime?
Bragg alleged they were done to conceal or commit another crime: conspiring to influence the 2016 election through unlawful means.
And the 2016 election was a federal election not a state election.
The DOJ, should they not have been weaponized by the biden administration, would have taken the case over based on "primary jurisdiction doctrine" which establishes that states cannot convict someone on a federal crime.
Even the Chairman of the Federal Election Commission doesn't know why the DOJ did not do this.
This was not about justice but a blatant use of the judicial system for political gain.I think you're unable to understand that when someone runs the NDA payments through a business, and lists them as legal fees, that is fraud. When that fraud violates state election laws - as states run the elections and each has certain laws that are different pertaining to federal elections - that a person can be in violation of their state laws governing the administration of an election. For example, why have the states of Arizona and Michigan charged the fake electors in their states. The illegal activities, much like Trump's, pertained to the outcome of a federal election. See how it's so easy to give examples of states charging people at the state level for actions taken in a presidential election? The idea that only the feds can charge election crimes is undermined by the fake elector charges.
Next, the Biden Administration weaponized the DOJ - by not having them charge Trump? This is the same logic that stated that Biden is senile and also a criminal mastermind who stole the 2020 election by secretly conspiring with multiple GOP State Attorney Generals - all from his basement. MAGA logic is really idiotic and contradictory when it comes to the accusations they lob at President Biden.
And the FEC might not have thought the campaign finance violation was strong enough to charge Trump. So be it. It was determined that it was enough to charge Cohen and send him to prison. New York determined the fraud was enough to charge Weisselberg and send him to prison. And they determined that if it was enough to send Cohen to prison, it should be enough to send the person who instructed Cohen to do it to prison too, especially when that person was named as a co-conspirator in Cohen's conviction.
That's not really politics, that's just simple justice. If jail is good enough for the henchmen, and you can prove who ordered the henchmen to commit the crimes, then you go after the boss too. It's really that simple."I think you're unable to understand that when someone runs the NDA payments through a business, and lists them as legal fees, that is fraud."
No, you're wrong. That is perfectly legal. An NDA is a legal instrument. The creation of one requires legal services. Besides, "Falsifying business records is ordinarily a misdemeanor subject to a two-year statute of limitations, which would have expired long ago."
"a person can be in violation of their state laws governing the administration of an election"
Sorry, wrong. The primary jurisdiction doctrine clearly states that federal law covers federal crimes. No state can charge someone for a state crime in a federal election.
"For example, why have the states of Arizona and Michigan charged the fake electors in their states"
Because the states are in charge of choosing their electors. They are not responsible for prosecuting violations of federal laws pertaining to a federal election.
The FEC is in charge of federal elections. Not the state of New York.
It is a contrived legal theory that many people in the legal world can't grasp. Lawyers, law professors and more have destroyed this case against President Donald Trump.
It will be interesting when bragg gives testimony before the Congressional Judiciary Oversight Committee.
"he used a novel and untested legal theory—previously declined by federal prosecutors—to upgrade the charges against President Trump to felonies"An NDA might be legal, but the NDA was not done to protect the Trump Organization, but Trump personally. Also, Cohen was given a bonus, but the majority of money in the case that was paid was a reimbursement for his paying Stormy and not legal fees. The state proved that beyond a doubt. Running a personal payoff through a business is definitely fraud.
You admit that states choose their electors in a federal election, but deny that they run their own elections to determine the results that choose the legal electors. Again, MAGA logic showing major inconsistencies. If states can charge the fake electors in a federal election using state laws, they can definitely use state laws to show fraud done in service of election fraud as felonies.
And that final statement was just flat wrong. Federal prosecutors had zero jurisdiction to charge the business fraud in New York. So, they would not have decline the legal theory. They might have declined the campaign finance charges against a former president for a multitude of reasons - such as the other pending cases, the worry about Cohen's credibility issues. That there were many crimes committed in the case likely made the case stronger.I'll rely on the legal experts to understand the situation.
Their opinions are what make things clear.
"he used a novel and untested legal theory—previously declined by federal prosecutors—to upgrade the charges against President Trump to felonies"Experts? Trainor is too closely linked with Trump to be considered unbiased. His testimony before the committee, in my view, was purposely misleading.
This wasn't about an FEC violation. Trump was charged with violating New York election law 17-152.
Bragg did not charge Trump with violating FEC law. The falsification of business records was an attempt to bypass FEC laws but Bragg didn't have to prove those laws were broken. So Primary Jurisdiction Doctrine doesn't really enter into this case.
The issue is purpose not result. The fraud has to have been done in furtherance of a second crime to be a felony but the second crime doesn't need to succeed let alone be charged and convicted.
If I go buy a bunch of illegal explosives, I've committed a crime. If the prosecutor can show show I was planning to use those explosives to commit a second crime, I'm going to face additional penalties for buying them. Even if they arrest me before I commit the second crime, the intent alone is enough for me to face tougher charges. Same for Trump. Doesn't matter that he wasn't
charged for the federal crime."The falsification of business records"
You need to read the case. If this was the charge it was a misdemeanor and the statute of limitations had expired on it.
bragg had to tie something with the case to bump it up to a felony.
"New York election law 17-152"
State laws don't apply to federal elections.
That is why the primary jurisdiction doctrine does apply.
As the attorney said, "On April 4, 2023, after campaigning on his experience in investigating President Trump and in response to intense pressure from left-wing activists, Bragg charged President Trump with 34 felony counts for falsifying business records. Falsifying business records is ordinarily a misdemeanor subject to a two-year statute of limitations, which would have expired long ago. While Bragg is systematically downgrading most felonies in Manhattan to misdemeanors, he used a novel and untested legal theory—previously declined by federal prosecutors—to upgrade the charges against President Trump to felonies. Bragg's case against President Trump has beset by due process and procedural irregularities"
These are the facts.Facts? It's some right-wing shill's opinion. No federal prosecutor declined to charge state level business fraud. And there are plenty of other cases of those fraud charges becoming felonies when done in the service of another crime. The jury had options which one to pick from, as the prosecution proved tax fraud as well as the state election charge, in that Trump illegally prevented the voters of the state of New York from having relative information they needed to cast their votes.
"No federal prosecutor declined to charge state level business fraud.
You need to read up on the law a little bit. Federal prosecutors can't bring state-level business fraud charges.
Again, learn more about primary jurisdiction doctrine.
You will learn that states can't prosecute federal cases, because if this was permitted, a person who committed a federal crime could be charged in 50 different court systems.
"The jury had options which one to pick from, as the prosecution proved tax fraud as well as the state election charge"
This is a big cause for appeal. Jury instructions are required to very specific, not general.
Again, according to legal experts,
"Falsifying business records is ordinarily a misdemeanor subject to a two-year statute of limitations, which would have expired long ago. While Bragg is systematically downgrading most felonies in Manhattan to misdemeanors, he used a novel and untested legal theory—previously declined by federal prosecutors—to upgrade the charges against President Trump to felonies. Bragg's case against President Trump has beset by due process and procedural irregularities"
Let that sink in, Novel and untested legal theory. Bragg campaigned he was going to get President Donald Trump, who hadn't been charged with any crimes, so, he created a crime.
The entire case is nothing but election interference."You will learn that states can't prosecute federal cases, because if this was permitted, a person who committed a federal crime could be charged in 50 different court systems"
Again, Bragg did not prosecute a federal crime. Please provide a citation, preferably in Bragg's court filing, to support such a statement.
Please provide the federal statute that you believe he was convicted of violating.I understand the law just fine. It's you who claimed that federal authorities refused to bring the case because it was untested. By your claim, that would have meant that they had an option to bring the business fraud charge. Which they did not.
And you keep claiming that New York 'prosecuted' a federal case. They absolutely did no such thing. They prosecuted state level business fraud. They showed that the fraud done in service of multiple other crimes, including a violation of their own election law. Something you just can't wrap your head around at all because you only see the clear violation of federal campaign finance.
And this whole case is novel and untested because no former president has ever been charged with a crime. But you're right about the case being election interference. It was about prosecuting Trump for denying New York voters access to pertinent information about his 2016 candidacy.The legal experts disagree with everything you've just said.
I agree with them.The 'conservative' legal experts 'paid to sell a certain media narrative' disagree with everything you just said. The courts seem to agree with me, so far. These were the same media experts telling you that there was fraud in 2020, the ones that had to pay millions for lying to you. I see not much has changed in terms of what people will believe.
They changed Statutes, they changed Laws, they ignored precedent and they used "novel and untested legal theory".
It was a witch hunt... show me the person and I will create the crime...
This is where New York is at... corrupt to the core... an extension of our Federal Government. It will continue to get worse...
Our economy/spending is tracking along historical trends, the worst in history seen in Germany, Russia, Venezuela...
Our Justice system is no longer fair and impartial, it is used to persecute those opposed to the people controlling our government, which is inciting illegal wars, spending money we don't have and can't pay back, and leaving our borders wide open... giving foreigners more government support than it offers to citizens most in need.
These are all signs you can look at that tell of a society/nation on the verge of collapse. The rest of the world sees this, it is as clear to them as a stumbling bumbling Biden on stage.
It's a pity that the biden administration should set such a precedent. The Civil Service, is a continuation of public sercise. Why weapon it for political gain? Why not let it neutral? What sort of democracy is being pictured?
Trump’s ‘modern day Salem witch trial’ verdict signals ‘open season’ on former presidents: experts
The NY v. Trump case 'doesn't even pass the laugh test,' experts say
Former President Donald Trump's trial in Manhattan was a "modern day Salem witch trial" that has opened the floodgates to district attorneys across the nation prosecuting former presidents, experts told Fox News Digital.
"No matter how you twist and warp the traditional role of the prosecutor, it's always going to have a bad outcome. It's bad for the legal system. And you now see two DAs — both of whom are Soros, rogue prosecutors — using their office to go after somebody who, if his name had not been Trump, no DA would have even blinked an eye his way. [They are using] the law in a perverted way for purely political reasons," Heritage Foundation legal fellow Charles "Cully" Stimson told Fox News Digital in a phone interview.
"It doesn't even pass the laugh test," he added.
ragg charged former Trump with 34 counts of falsifying business records in the first degree last year, with Trump pleading not guilty and slamming the case as a "scam." He was found guilty on May 30 by a Manhattan jury.
Trump has maintained his innocence since the verdict, and he has launched an appeal in the case.
Prosecutors needed to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Trump falsified 34 business records to conceal a $130,000 payment to former pornography actor Stormy Daniels in the lead-up to the 2016 election to silence her about an alleged affair with Trump in 2006.
The House Judiciary, which is chaired by Republican Ohio Rep. Jim Jordan, held a hearing Thursday regarding Trump's prosecution, hearing from four experts on the matter, including Missouri Attorney General Andrew Bailey and Commissioner of the Federal Election Commission Trey Trainor. The committee will hold another hearing next month, one day after Trump is sentenced, when it will host Bragg himself, as well as prosecutor and former DOJ official Matthew Colangelo.
"With his unprecedented politicized indictment of President Trump, Manhattan District Attorney Bragg has opened the door for politically motivated prosecutions of federal officials by state and local prosecutors. Other ambitious state prosecutors have already followed Bragg's lead and pursued politically motivated indictments of President Trump," committee Republicans said of the hearing Thursday.
"On April 4, 2023, after campaigning on his experience in investigating President Trump and in response to intense pressure from left-wing activists, Bragg charged President Trump with 34 felony counts for falsifying business records. Falsifying business records is ordinarily a misdemeanor subject to a two-year statute of limitations, which would have expired long ago. While Bragg is systematically downgrading most felonies in Manhattan to misdemeanors, he used a novel and untested legal theory—previously declined by federal prosecutors—to upgrade the charges against President Trump to felonies. Bragg's case against President Trump has beset by due process and procedural irregularities," they added.
"This clearly is essentially a weaponization of the legal system. And I think if we zoom out and look at the 40,000-foot perspective, I think it quickly becomes clear, that if the defendant wasn't named Donald Trump, this case never would have been brought. And that's particularly apparent if you look at the other policies and actions Alvin Bragg has taken since he's been elected District Attorney," Smith said.
He pledged "not to prosecute most other misdemeanors there in Manhattan, pledging not to prosecute many low-level felonies, even many serious felony offenses. Or if he did prosecute them, not to seek a sentence of incarceration by default, and often to seek very lenient sentences for individuals accused of even very serious crimes," Smith said.
"So, I think any reasonable observer would look at this and say, that unless this was Donald Trump being prosecuted, this case wouldn't have been brought."
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trumps … ts-expertsThe 34 criminal charges against Ex-President Donald Trump, is really a witch hunt, to disgracd him because he was leading in the poll against biden? Braggs, who initiated these Stormy Daniels or Manhattan State v. Donald Trump, casesneed his head to be examine again with the law. The Juries are a raw scrap of idiots. Doesn't one of them discused Trump being indicted before the Jury concluded? This revealed bs against Trump. Even the house arrest was a forethought. That house arrest is a disaster and a disgrace for America, if it become practical and real. Trump will still campaign for presidency. The technology is available. Seriously, I like the Law, the Bench, and the Judiciary. I've read law to the extend that it was reasnable, and not distorted. Fools misapple the law. I pray the Manhattan Court doesn't make itself or America wwwwww!
I didn't take it that way . . .
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