After all that noble talk about freedom and liberty and the Constitution, it's helpful to be reminded that for quite a few tea partiers, what "liberty" really means is "do what we want and nobody gets hurt."
From a rally in DC yesterday:
These people are not true conservatives. They are ill-informed citizens, for the most part, who are being encouraged and cynically manipulated by libertarians like former GOP House majority leader Dick Armey and his Freedom Works! lobbying group bent on dismantling our government.
I'm insulted by your statements, Ralph.
Libertarians aren't nutso whack jobs. I guess I'll need to get used to the stereotype, especially because I'm finding myself pulled towards the even "crazier" Austro-Anarcho-Libertarian camp with Walter Block, Thomas Woods, Ludwig von Mises, Murray Rothbard and many many more.
Please don't discount us as nutjobs - I'm still waiting for your responses to my statements in the "Thank God for Obama" forum. I would be glad to post them here if you'd be more comfortable with that.
The MAIN and SIMPLE fact of this ENTIRE argument that any true patriot should make is that UHC is Unconstitutional. The Federal Government, unless the Constitution is amended, does NOT HAVE THE AUTHORITY to legislate on this topic. Please see my "Universal Health Care: Unconstitutional" hub for a longer argument.
The original poster seems to be calling the tea partiers nutjobs who want to initiate force to get their arguments across... but she ignores the fact that UHC is, of itself, a form of aggression - If I don't pay for UHC (taxes), then I will be thrown in jail. I would argue that if the Tea Partiers are using aggression to stop aggression against them, then they are justified.
Anyway, If you disagree with with 99% of what i've just written, please don't disagree with the "dismiss libertarians as nutjobs" statement. I'm sure that if you read my hubs you'll agree that my arguments are thoroughly argued for using very rational logic.
PS - most people who claim they are libertarians are really not - they just do it nowadays to attract the youth who got rallied up with Ron Paul.
When ya take away people's country, and accuse those who oppose it of being racist (like YOU just did), yeah them's fightin' words there.
I can't speak for the two men holding the Browning signs - though the evidence isn't promising - but the tea partiers have a long history of using racially charged language to attack Obama and others.
This is just the latest example:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100321/ap_ … aucous_day
Brenda - the country is still here - I am not sure where your sense of loss comes from. The GOP has tried to 'top from the bottom' rule from a minority status - absolutley unwilling to compromise - eventually voting as a block against HCR - and I emphasise "against' and 'as a block' and they were exluded from the later serious negotiations since they were on the record as opposed and obstructionist. Now they complain about being excluded because the democrats did not facilitate their efforts to lay down on the tracks in front of the process.
"eventually voting as a block against HCR "
Turn that coin over and have a look.
"absolutley unwilling to compromise "
It's a little tough to compromise from behind a locked door.
If anyone locked the door it was the Republicans. From his campaign to the present Obama has invited the GOP to the table on a variety of issues but has been stiffed on nearly all of them, except, of course, on sending more troops and money down the rat holes in Iraq and Afghanistan. When it passes today, the GOP will regret "betting the farm" against health care reform instead of accepting Obama's invitation to engage in rational discussion and debate.
"If anyone locked the door it was the Republicans."
No, no, I mean the democrats literally went behind locked doors. You don't remember back in October when house democrats changed the locks on a conference room door to keep Republicans out?
And, "invited to the table" means nothing when you get to the table and are given the 'opportunity' to agree with everything the democrats want or to STFU and go away. It's petty partisan nonsense to suppose otherwise.
How much longer 'till November? The American people are taking those arrogant SOBs to the woodshed.
First, how can you tell everyone is white?
Yes they are making threats with signs. Run everyone there is a gun painted on the poster.
First I don't know since I don't know what TEA BAGGER means.
I try not to look at color just attitudes.
I don't know if the poor guy who was beaten by SEIU thugs outside a townhall meeting protesting this obamacare nonsense was a Tea Party attendee, but I wouldn't blame him if he was motivated to attend some rallies after that.
theres this guy
that whole google concept has you stumped
If a group of people gathered outside your house with signs saying "kill deborah sexton" with a picture of a gun on it, would you feel that as a threat? LOLOLOL
You make me laugh.
so all the hanging of bush in effigy and calls for his assassination and hopes of dick cheney's death are all ok but do it to obama and its a problem
democrats and liberals at least youre always consistently hypocritical
Psychopathic right wing southern conservative woman clinging to her God, her gun, and her country! WOOOO HOOOOO!!! Gonna Gitcha'!
Why do you want to shoot a dog and a bible?
I have a gun, too, but it's the liberal version that comes without the bible and fits my hand perfectly.
let's think about this.
With UHC, (or any other tax increase to pay for X), the state says that if you don't pay, you'll be thrown in jail for tax evasion.
This is coercion and aggression. As much as I disagree with the new tea partiers (they were hi-jicked by neo-cons like Glenn Beck), they are perfectly justified to use aggression to defend against aggression.
I certainly don't agree with any actual violence in this case, but... if someone is threatening their liberty, they are correct in fighting back.
debate is always better than war... and to let all speak their mind is better than letting thoughts fester... sometimes, these things are good for debate for the best outcome to be found. Sometimes, their not!
Also, gives you an idea of what others might be thinking of...when things arent their way. I personally have thought of driving my car into a building.. but not to harm anyone, just to prove a point and decided afterwards, that that was not such a good idea. I now do a check on my radical emotive thoughts, which I know I will never act on, but make me feel better, ..... but I do check - am I a danger to myself or anyone else if I am considering this action... ( I am lucky I know my own mind - as I hope others do.. thinking of a silly action is not carrying it out and can be cathartic. MAKING A SIGN ABOUT IT - THAT THREATENS VIOLENCE???
They are threatening violence. Have been since they started showing up at Obama town meetings with guns strapped to their legs. It's white supremacy/KKK.
Call it for what it is, so we can stop pretending it's safe and ok.
Who do they blame for ruining their country?
Black people, immigrants, gays.
It's so typical we should not be surprised by it. And we had better wake up to it.
The gvt. was right on this one...militia and hate groups are growing, and are threatening violence.
Why all the gun sales? You think it's for self-defense?
Yeah, and I'm Santy Claus!
Stop making sweeping generalizations, these people are, on the whole, not white supremists/KKK, they are people who are sick and tired of their government.
These people blame all of our politcians for ruining our country.
Here's the thing. These types of behaviors and signs are commonplace at tea party rallies all across the country. Unless the tea party specifically condemns this behavior and takes steps to mitigate it, this type of hatred will continue to be associated with the tea party, and deservedly so.
Idiots at political rallies advocating violence or hurling racial epithets should not only be removed but soundly beaten not matter what the group or event, but have you so soon forgotten all the wonderful people burning president Bush in effigy, declaring him the devil, and wishing every conceivable horrible demise on him? If you get any big enough group of people together there will be a number of idiots involved.
I disagree that people should be removed from political rallies for hurling racial epithets or carrying signs advocating violence, since I'm a free speech advocate. I agree that there is irrational behavior on both sides.
However, the hateful behavior at tea party rallies is not the result of just a few idiots among throngs of rational people. The haters are up front and center.
I used to be a tea-partier, until it got hi-jacked by Neo-cons.
And I agree that these people often times act like idiots.
But let's be honest - just about every political group of people can easily have ridiculous people be shown on the news and shown to be ridiculous. Hippies, Crazy conservatives, Communists ... every group of serious thought has it's lunatics.
Now - is bringing a gun to a political rally really that bad? Of course not. USING it would be quite a bad thing. In the State of Ohio and MANY other states, concealed carry is LEGAL and CONSTITUTIONAL. Bringing a gun somewhere is not only NOT illegal, it's supported by the Constitution of the state AND country. - Just don't initiate violence with it.
And, et's think about this. With UHC, (or any other tax increase to pay for X), the state says that if you don't pay, you'll be thrown in jail for tax evasion. This is coercion and aggression against liberty. They are perfectly justified to use aggression to defend against aggression.
I certainly don't agree with any actual violence in this case, but... if someone is threatening their liberty, they are correct in fighting back.
Yes, making a sign that is basically saying someone should shoot the president is threatening violence.
there are lots of people who say things like that ... its telling the difference between those who protest and those who are truly to be concerned about.
there are 2 questions or comments Id like to make as an external party.
australia, strict gun laws.. which we are happy about - usually only farmers or someone who as a really good reason to have a gun has one...
secondly, I have noticed in our political debates the polarity of things when looking at black and white australia. Its as if people want us to be south africa before apartied - the problem is we havent been that good either, we havent had guns etc (in this era, but we havent concerned ourselves too much - yet there is also the debate as to what do you do and what do you let self determination take care of versus assimilation?)
but, anyway, I have felt the presence in our debate at times which can divide and create observation as to where we are, and it does show us where we are not doing as well as we could... yet we dont want to be south africa all over again....
I am grateful we dont have protests with guns and many people may say mean things, but not to the extent that you are coping with there... blessings to all and hope you find a way that you can debate without such behavior.. and
Obama himself has used racially-charged wording MANY times.
Matter of fact, his WHOLE Campaign was based on racism, and he let that be known openly. Yet most people are afraid to call him out for it, because he manipulates words and people at the drop of a hat and through his newly-achieved power.
Is that the best you can do, Brenda? Very revealing.
(I rarely follow links, but I've probably seen all the stuff from BOTH sides.)
And it's sufficient.
The truth is that, if there is to be resolution of the problems, it really SHOULD come from the "top"----Obama himself should own up to his racist communistic anti-American anti-Christian crap and resign.
But will he?
Of course not.
So the people must rebel.
How far "they" take it remains to be seen.
More than anything, I think American citizens hate being ignored, their rights taken away. This Administration is doing just that. They're tyrants (most of the Administration).
You don't seriously expect patriotic Americans to just lie down and take it, do ya?
If you want to point me to the time where Obama said everybody who disagreed with him should be shot or lynched, suggested John McCain was not an American citizen because he was born in Panama, lynched his political enemies in effigy, or called white people "Charlies," "Anns," "albinoes," "crackers," or "whiteys", I will be most interested to see them.
Let's talk about racially charged wording Kerryg...
If I started a thread called "Psychopathic Black Men..." do you think it would be allowed to stay up as long as your racist title has?
Racism against whites is still racism.
Yes, he is truly unique in the history of politics
Wow brenda i don't know how you managed to say that, but you did. to flip what President Obama has said backwards. that was amazing and in true rush limbaugh, George bush( afganistan did it but we need to attack iraq) form. The man of two races is racist against himself ha ha ha
True Americans hate the Communism and other crap that's infiltrated our leadership and is being openly touted by "our President".
Who can blame them (us)? No one, rightly.
It's the same reason our ancestors left England. We don't like tyranny.
Peruse all the info about Obama you can find.
Google Van Jones.
Google William Ayres.
Google the "Reverend" Jeremiah Wright.
Google.....hmm....oh that's right, THOSE are mostly proof of Obama's racism or terrorism leanings.....
I'm sure you, if you've been watching at all, can find the zillion proofs of his socialistic agenda.
While your at it, check out George Ws affiliation with Saudi Royal Family, and THEN ask yourself why the only flights in the entire country( other than military ) on 9/12 2001, was flying Saudis out of this country. OH WAIT! 19 of the 20 terrorists were ? SAUDIS
How would you know that or be able to prove it?
And, assuming (for the sake of discussion) that your information is correct, and that the Bush Administration pulled the biggest, worst, hoax in history, causing many deaths, or allowing many deaths........how do you think focusing on that right now would keep THIS NEW Administration from forcing its agenda on us?
I say, again, we should start at the HERE and NOW and hold THIS current Administration accountable, and then go from there.
Because IF it's true, then the former was "killing us" from the outside, but THIS one is killing us from the inside.
Research it. I assure you it,s true. As to the new adminastration, One: this is basically an insurance reform bill. It does'nt really address our healthcare system. And considering the way insurance companies SCREW people, I dont think it's such a bad thing. I AM interested in wheather or not he will go after the drug companies next? They need to.
Second: Closing down a miltary prison that was being used as a dungeon. Bringing an unjust war to an end, and focusing on dealing with a REAL terrorist base. And finally, taking office at one of our countries lowest economic points, and HAS avoided depression, and all this in less than two years. I, as of yet have no complaints.
They are being held accountable.
And applauded for their actions, for finally doing the right thing after 8 years of the most disasterous presidency of our time.
So...(assuming it's true about Bush, which is of course highly unlikely)....you would bring down one murderous Administration but let the one that's destroying the whole basis of the nation...get by with advocating a new holocaust on American society? I see.
Not the basis of the nation. He's simply pissing off a bunch of simple-minded rubes who, let's face it, would find something to be pissed-off about anyway.
It has been ruled that the medical procedure you consistantly and falsely declare to be murder is in fact constitutionally protected. A president who agrees with that ruling is agreeing with the constitution as he should.
Republicans can bitch and moan all they want. It won't change a thing. They had their opportunity to do the right thing, but they chose instead to start an unneccessary, immoral war (where people actually were murdered) make the ultra-rich even richer, and nearly throw us into a world-wide depression. Do you think the Americam electorate is stupid enough to give them a second chance?
Bush was, indeed, a reject. I hope you don't put me in his camp.
But "the right thing" is not UHC. The right thing would be to return to a free market system of health care. Ever since the Stabilization Act of 1942 the government has, not only been ignoring the Constitution, but legislating in about every way possible to raise the cost of health care.
If we really want cheaper health care, get the government out. we have a Government granted Monopoly to the American Medical Association, income-tax-free health care when provided by employers (don't get me wrong, I'm all for tax-free income of any sort, but the reason why health prices go up is because this tax-free-health-care puts incentives to increase the demand of health care, but, with the AMA monopoly, restrict supply), and the hurdles put in place to restrict entry to the health care market.
Get the government out, don't get more government. I don't want my health being decided by politicians in ANY way shape or form.
spreading the truth is hardly spreading lies
obama is not the bastion of virtue you and many others want to believe he is
he is a liar and doesnt care about you at all
which makes him a typical politician
obviously better than you
but you really dont care how he is do you
he is your savior
youre single arnt you
You mock, but yeah I'm teed off like any citizen should be.
I guess if I had bigoted values, yes, I would be extremely pissed off right now. As a matter of fact I would be violently pissed. I would even bring firearms to events attended by the president, and carry signs with guns, implying the murder of the president.
"I guess if i had bigoted values..."
Man... is liberty really so hated in America? I can't believe what I'm reading!!
Politicians and the media have managed to convince everyone that giving up their rights to being able to have complete control over their health care is a good thing! This is astonishing!
-- before you respond that we don't have direct control over our health: if you look at the history of WHY we don't have control, you'll find government's fingerprints all over it. 1942 stabilization act, tax free employer provided health care, the AMA, and many other ridiculous policies that don't make ANY economical sense.
there are all kind of true americans and people have differing opinions and mindsets than what you 'classify' as a true american.
your broad generalizations are nothing more.
Bush and his crew had 8 years to do something with health care reform.
The fact is that the majority of americans voted for obama, otherwise he wouldnt be president now, why cant conservatives come to terms with that fact?
What about all the claims by conservatives of vote rigging, obama not being an american, obama being a communist, obama being a muslim terrorist, obama being anti-american.
Sounds to me that the conservative minority have a hard time dealing with the fact of a black atheist liberal president. LOL.
"What about all the claims by conservatives of vote rigging, obama not being an american, obama being a communist, obama being a muslim terrorist, obama being anti-american."
There has been far less talk of vote rigging than after both of president Bush's elections.
You mean the candidate that claimed he was a moderate christian that transcended race?
Because it's really hard for me to believe the majority of Americans are/were that stupid or misinformed.
Thats not very logical, the fact remains that he did win the majority.
Do you have any evidence to suggest anything else?
Believe me, we on the left felt the same about the people who voted for Bush!
Where is the racial component of the crowd surfing and 'batman' thing?
Sab oh - why don't you comment on the lynching?
I voted for him and I'm fairly intelligent.
I'm also still glad I did.
There's a book titled 'The Slavery of Freedom' a highly suggested read. What were actually dealing with is money verses common sense. The media helps with this by keeping peoples attention on differences. Racial, political, religous, and even monetary. That way we stay disunited, and they make more money!
Right wing thinking, when it becomes extreme at least, splits the world and it's people into good and evil. The 'good' are people who are similar to the right winger. Anyone noticeably different is evil.
Right wingers in Iran think America is evil. Right wingers in Chile think Argentina is evil etc etc. So racism, and every other 'ism' should be expected.
"Right wing thinking, when it becomes extreme at least, splits the world and it's people into good and evil. The 'good' are people who are similar to the right winger. Anyone noticeably different is evil. "
And left wingers do exactly the same thing. Just replace 'good' and 'evil' with 'enlightened' and 'blind' or 'uniformed' or 'asleep' or some such nonsense.
People are people.
This doesn't worry me as much as the radicals we don't see or hear from. They are alone with their festering thoughts scheming, brooding and just waiting for the right moment to strike out. Sometimes all it takes is a stupid novel or a song to set them off.
Whether it's Liberals ("Progressives") or Conservatives, there's the normal, well adjusted, people who have their own idea of what's best and then there's wackos, or at least people who don't know how to find a reasonable way to present their own views, without hyperbole and drama. Among any group of sign-waving/sign-making people you're going to get the loud-mouthed extremists (and if not them, then at least people who don't know how to design a sign they think will "pack a punch" without looking crazy).
As someone with Conservative leanings, I know there are "zillions" of other people, like me, who aren't represented by someone like the people in the picture. Also, though, I don't call "crazy" (or other names) people with Liberal/Progressive views just because I don't happen to think their views are entirely wise, or if some views are wise at all.
What I don't get is why so many Liberal-Progressive-minded people don't get it that there can be people who don't think one thing or another is the way to go but who also have their own valid points on any issue. I see, and in a lot of ways agree with, the valid points of people who think there's one way to fix the health-care picture, when I may think the same goal can be reached some other way.
People who hold "psycho" signs or name call are all in the same category - people who don't know how to address specific, valid, issues and present reasonable backing up of their own viewpoints without resorting to hyperbole and drama.
As for Conservatives "getting used to the fact that Obama is in" - that's not what's it about either. I didn't vote for Clinton, and I didn't vote for Bush, for that matter. Most people, once whoever is in, most people "adjust" to whoever got in once he's in. Santa Claus could be the president, doing whatever is being done now, and have people not like his approach. If Santa Claus were in instead of Bush, people wouldn't have liked whatever they didn't like that he did - regardless of who it was.
"The haters are up front and center"
They always are...on BOTH sides...
Examples of the 'haters' on the left?? perhaaps with pictures of the protest signs - or quotes from leaders in the democratic party???
I should have made my statement more clear, I suppose.
I was inferring to most of the posters on the political forum threads...
I don't doubt, though, that there are many "quotes" and pictures of haters on both sides...it just seems to go with the territory of politics...
Do you really mean to say you don't think there are any? Are you that far out in left field?
Sab Oh says-
People are people.
People can also reject easy hatreds and take a tough look at themselves. Though it is difficult when hatred is encouraged by leaders looking for advantage in politics.
The amazing thing is that this torrent of rage has been unleashed by issues which are not especially contentious.
I think Obama might have been a mistake as a democratic pick. The US isn't ready to move beyond its old bitter wars.
I am not very political, but I am continually appalled by the liberties some people take to express their discontent. I have always been afraid for Obama, and can't help but admire his courage to be the first African-American president, knowing that he could be assassinated at any given moment just because of that. I shudder to think what will happen in this country if such a horrible thing were to happen. Our (AA) history as a wronged people is long and hard to forget even with the gains made toward acceptance and equality. Thus, our present day emotional reactions to injustice and continued discrimination are borne from the years of our ancestors enduring the 'yessa masta-sa' mind set. Swallowing our pride to exhibit white people's expected acceptable behaviors just so we can live another day.
Now, we are intelligent enough to understand how all of this has evolved, but those buried emotional scars sting when they are caused to resurface because of blatant racial injustice.
Does it make you feel any better that white presidents have actually been shot?
Are you intelligent enough to realize that Obama is half-white, but has used his black heritage side to get impressionable people (such as you and many other liberals) to back up his BLATANTLY tyrannical agenda?
Certainly, I too fear his assassination. First of all because I don't like anyone to be killed, especially before their soul is saved. Secondly because it would make him a martyr for a cause that's already been settled long ago.
No way did this stuff go on with Bush!
Cindy Sheehan was arrested for wearing a t-shirt with the number of Iraq and American dead on it to Bush's state of the union address.
Do you really think they would have allowed citizens to show up to a Bush town meeting strapping guns? Or McCain or Romney, or any of them for that matter? It wouldn't happen.
Also--IF these tea-parties are bi-partisan in their blame, where are the defammatory signs against Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice, etc etc?
There are no signs against ANY Republicans that I see....and so where is the blame for Bush?
They sat silent while he lied us into an invasion, slipped that unPatriot Act through...only one who read it was Kucinich btw! And don't you remember the Unitary Executive policy that Cheney was pushing? What about, "I am the decider."
No one said a peep. And if you did, you were labeled an anti-American traitor to your country!
Sorry-this tea-bagging thing seems to be all Republican and all white....which I would guess is a very small minority in this country.
Also, read this. This lady is really angry about the different treatment these new protesters are getting. How soon we all forget!
"Anti-war protesters treated like traitors...Teabag protesters treated with deference"-By Mary MacElveen
Whoa...mea culpa!! This stuff DID go on with Bush. Wow--that was worse than the Obama stuff, I have to say. Except for the racial part.
Nobody called Republican Congress people "Crackers", or spit on them, did they?....that I know of.
And no one called for the Impeachment of Bush until he committed an impeachable offense.
They are already calling to Impeach Obama...on what grounds?
And WHY oh WHY didn't they go along with Dennis Kucinich and Mike McDermott when they were calling for hearings against Bush/Cheney?
If they do it now...that will be the Uprising moment for me.
Get Obama, but let Bush off the hook?
oh NO you don't!
"Nobody called Republican Congress people "Crackers", or spit on them, did they?...."
Black republicans have been villified and insulted on racial grounds by 'good liberals' many, many times.
The worst I've heard black Republicans called is Uncle Toms. I'm sure they don't like it, but blacks are usually the ones who are calling them Uncle Toms. Liberals generally don't use racist ephithets, in my experience. But I hear the word Nigger occasionally come from the mouths of white racist Republicans in Grosse Pointe, Michigan. Ditto for anti-gay epithets.
your consistent use of that offensive word is telling
"Liberals generally don't use racist ephithets, in my experience."
LIberals will hate and cast invectives, against any group or denomination, whenever it suits them, just like anyone else. They take their hate with a dose of hypocrisy.
Sorry, pal, you're dead wrong. Liberals are the ones who are accused of being politically correct, and they usually are sometimes to the point of being almost ridiculous.
"Sorry, pal, you're dead wrong"
LOL! You really, really want to believe it, but that won't make it so. This is what leads to liberal hypocrisy.
"And no one called for the Impeachment of Bush until he committed an impeachable offense."
And what offense would that be?
It is amazing to me that so many people called Obama so many names and insulted him by calling him unamerican and nonchristian but he successfully won the vote of the American people anyway, how can that be?
Oh it be!!!! Now everyone should get over it and support our president, he is not from another country he is from here and he is doing the best he can with what he has to deal with and it doesn't help his security when there are people who are willing to support the idea of assassinating the poor man. Give him a break already.
Your Tea Party buddies called Congressman Lewis a nigger yesterday and Barney Frank a fag.
It sure made the news in Australia. Every channel.
Well the retoric here in Texas is even more stout. I have heard people say they are for another civil war, they temper that with non-violent, is the only way to stop this drastic change in policy.
I don't agree with this at all but, Republicans blew it they had 8 years to shore up middle America and seal up politics for many years. All they did was serve their group of special interests and lose the support of moderates. This change in government is as much the result of greed as it is politics. Greed has led us to pay for abortions, colapse of morality and socialism.
I personaly don't really care what either party has to say. One is a group misguided socialist wanna-bes and the other is a group of greedy social Darwinists. It all goes back to becareful what you wish for!
35 articles of Impeachment brought to the floor by Dennis Kucinich.
For both Bush and Cheney.
All about lying us into the Iraq invasion.
You can google it and read the whole thing..it's very long.
Or you could read Vincent Bugliosi's book giving his case for impeachment.
or just google Bush/Cheney lies....and you will be there for days.
Or google PNAC.
Then there's the matter of illegal torture...I believe that is called war crimes, or crimes against humanity. You must remember that Rumsfeld and Rice have both been chased out of foreign countries because people were going to arrest them for war crimes?...Spain and Canada I think it was. Same reason Likud members of gvt. were not welcome in the UK for a while.
Then you have the outing of a CIA agent-which HW Bush calls an act of treason. I know, that was "handled", but not to any satisfaction.
And, if we really want to get serious about the treachery, I do believe 9/11 was an inside job. And since they were the insiders...well you get my drift.
Then there was all the spying, the collusion of the telecoms, the Patriot Act, which was switched at 3 am and the Congress didn't know what they were voting for....the firing of those lawyers and hiring of public officials on Party/religious-lines. Republican and Christian only need apply,
the framing and imprisonment of Rove's political enemy, all the lies about Saddam and 9/11, the mushroom cloud, the dire threat to us-so the need for war, the need for spying, the need to suspend Habius Corpus, the need to hold people without charge and without lawyers,stripping our 4th amendment rights, the torture they subjected innocents to, the deaths at Bagram AFB, The psychological Nazi-type experimenting they did with Jose Padilla....is that enough?
And you say to me Obama is a louse cause he wants insurance reform?
That makes me so hot with rage, I'm cold. Cold as ice as far as Republicans are concerned.
And ANY attempt to put this on Obama will bring a blow-back the likes of which you've never seen.
Keep telling me how bad Obama is ...go ahead! He doesn't scratch the surface of bad.
Cheney owns it.
And his daughter is in for a surprise if she thinks the rest of the country will accept her like the CPAC crowd did.
You think we have forgotten. We have not. Justice will prevail, I believe that.
Just don't EVER talk to me about how "bad" Obama is. He's little orphan andy compared to your goons.
"35 articles of Impeachment brought to the floor by Dennis Kucinich."
And guess why everyone - including the dems who absolutely hated Bush - ignored that loon?
Doesn't cost anything to throw accusations around.
"Just don't EVER talk to me about how "bad" Obama is."
Many Americans will talk to you about it - A LOT. Get used to it.
"Dick Cheney's statutory crimes are notable for their severity, their number, and his public confessions to them. Torture is the least of it.
We can start with the crimes found in the three articles of impeachment contained in H Res 333 in the 110th Congress"
Doesn't cost anything to decide for yourself either.
H Res 333...google it and see!
There are loads of legal experts and politicians who would love nothing better than to convict president Bush or vice president Cheny of something. That they haven't despite 8+ years of dreaming tells you something. When any serious charges are brought you let me know.
Why do you insist that everyone hates?...not everyone is like you.
Indoctrination! Republican hate mongering at it's best. You gotta love the entertainment, cause thats all it's good for.
How are the american indians? Thought they were there before the british empire? And nationalism is not a political system. It doesnt matter if your capitalist or communist, its the people who work in the system. If you are a dictator of the right, you could be a dictator of the left... and generally, the electorate gets the politician that they choose, ... according to their own beliefs, ethics and upbringing, voting and social conscience.
got any slaves in your kitchen???
"Just don't EVER talk to me about how "bad" Obama is."
Many Americans will talk to you about it - A LOT. Get used to it--
Well geee! Good to know nothing will ever come of it too, huh? Since we don't believe in holding our presidents accountable...oh yeah, except for things of a Sexual nature...oooooh the blue dress. Oh the horror! Yes, that was worth the billions of dollars and the years of time wasn't it? But hey--Lieing about invading another country....it's nothing! Go on with ya--get over it.
9/11.... 3,000 Americans dead....millions don't believe the official story, but hey, what's 3,000 dead Americans? For god's sakes, Obama wants health reform!
WHY bother with illegal torture? Illegal invasion? Illegal wiretapping, illegal killing of prisoners...none of it matters. Oh, but we'll get that Obama, Yes we will.
First things first. We have criminals walking free amongst us, with your blessing. None too American if you ask me. But what do I know? I'm not real like you. Back when I spoke out about a president, I was called a traitor to my country. My how times have changed. And my how the term traitor is misused.
You know, every time I heard Bush talk about terrorism, it always seemed like he was talking about himself...
Y'all Republicans need to look in a big ole mirror.
And y'all need to learn what a real crime is, versus your petty-anti complaints.
Tell the Pentagon to give back the money they "lost" in Iraq, we'd all be set for life!
"Good to know nothing will ever come of it too, huh? Since we don't believe in holding our presidents accountable..."
We'll see about that in November and again in 2012.
"oh yeah, except for things of a Sexual nature...oooooh the blue dress. Oh the horror! Yes, that was worth the billions of dollars and the years of time wasn't it?"
That wasn't about sex, it was about committing perjury. That is an actual crime, as opposed to bitter recriminations about "lying" that have never been proven (whereas Clinton's lie is not in dispute by either side).
When Cheney said they knew exactly where the WMD's were, and then there were none....what is that called?
When Cheney meets with an operative in Prague to "set-up" the story that Saddam was involved with Al-Queda, what is that?
When Bush and Rice continually hint on national tv about the connection between Saddam and 9/11, knowing it not to be true, what is that?
Is that kind of like "depends on what "is" is"?
When they said Saddam was a grave threat to the United States, knowing it not to be true....
When book after book of insiders have told us they were gunning for an invasion long before 9/11...is that worth investigating?
No? But when a pres has an affair and lies about it, THAT is of national importance?
Where are your values?
Or I'll say it in bumper-sticker form: Bush lied, people died.
And still no investigation.....pitiful.
"When Cheney said they knew exactly where the WMD's were, and then there were none....what is that called?"
It's called being wrong.
There has been no end of eager investigators just dying to 'get' the previous administration. So far, nothing. You and your ilk are left with disagreeing with politics and policy and emoting for all you're worth.
Clinton, on the other hand, clearly committed a crime and no one disputes that fact. No amount of talk about sex will change the fact that perjury is a crime.
Yes we will.
The Raving Lunatics will be sorry they messed with a calm reasonable human being.
And the Supreme Court will be sorry they gave corporations the rights of an individual....
It's all going to backfire.
You see, the average person has been used, abused and bamboozled.
But it's all so clear now. That's why Obama is there in the first place.
What are you Pubs fighting for?
Who are you fighting for?
Why the Raving behavior, as if your last leg was coming off?
You all are suffering from Beckitis.I would say Limbaugh-syndrome, but
he really did most of his damage with "The Philanderer-in-Chief".
He passed the Baton to Beckles the Clown, and now we have a side-
show erry day..even though I don't watch...I don't like being hustled.
"You see, the average person has been used, abused and bamboozled."
There it is again. The typical liberal refrain that anyone who disagrees with them is 'uniformed' or has been 'tricked' somehow.
"The Raving Lunatics will be sorry they messed with a calm reasonable human being."
Which is which?
"And the Supreme Court will be sorry they gave corporations the rights of an individual...."
How will they be sorry, and why for a principle over 100 years old?
Umm...I guess we'll now have to be psychopathic white men AGAINST the status quo. That is, since Hell Care has now passed and BECOME the status quo....
I don't own a Browning, though. Little too upscale for my budget.
Victory Day for the Calm and Reasonable!
And reading all these comments about constitutionality--it just makes me wonder;
What does the Constitution say about giving American tax dollars to foreign states? Is it written? Is it provided for? Is there some mandate that must be satisfied before the money goes out?
Because my simple mind is quite confused at how we cry and cry about spending money on our own citizens, yet send out BIG dollars daily to foreign lands....and I'm not talking humanitarian aid,which I heartily agree with... I'm talking welfare.
Is this written in the Constitution?
Breath of fresh air!
America puts a fantastic effort into helping the world all the time, but then piss the moral high ground up against the wall by doing stupid knee jerk things like invading Iraq.
When the Iraq War began, I know a number of Iraqis who were only too happy to know that murdering bastard hussein would soon be gone.
At the same time, I know a number of folks from other troubled countries who reacted to the news by saying (literally) "why not my country"?
Now, it's obviously not as simple as that, but it is also not as simple as the bumper-stickers on the other side would have you believe either.
"And reading all these comments about constitutionality--it just makes me wonder"
The Supreme Court will explain it to you in due time.
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