There is a lot of confusion on this subject, what with the banksters being overrepresented by those who have descended from those who practiced the religion of Judaism. But we need to be clear, Jewishness is not a race. Jews are caucasian, and there is no race named "Jew".
My natural father was a Jewish descendant, and I am adopted and also count as Jewish descendent. But that does not mean I am not caucasian in race. Jews practice Judaism, and if you are a descendant, you could be an atheist, an agnostic, a Christian or whatever.
I hope this clears things up. Judaism is not a race. Judaism is a religion.
That is in Israel. We are talking about here in the United States. Israel does not define Judaism, and in fact was founded by bolsheviks. Look it up on Wikipedia. The state of Israel does what is expedient for a state that is secular.
Israel is not a Jewish state according to the Old Testament. If one were to believe the OT was in force, and I don't, then Israel would have to be sacrificing animals and the whole OT thing, banishing people from the land, etc. Israel does not do that. So to make an OT rule a requirement for moving there is just stupid. Or as I said before convenient for them to set barriers.
Judaism has been changing ever since it was created. According to Jewish law, there are no more animal sacrifices, banishment, etc.
The problem is that Christians who use Christian terminology and apply Christian understanding to Judaism tend to misunderstand it. The Torah is not the entirety of Jewish law, not even close. (Judaism has continued to evolve after Jesus's life)
That said, Israel (the modern state) is a secular country. There are many of its laws that have nothing to do with Jewish law. Even Eichmann's execution was a violation of Jewish law, which has banned the death penalty for almost 2,000 years.
Interesting post. Yes, Zionists, like Leo Strauss, could be atheistic. Interesting point about the Khazars.
True about the state of Israel. It is not Jewish and was founded by bolsheviks.
True religion does not allow usury, however, the definition of usury is not as strict as some religions say. For example, Jesus expected that you earn interest, in the parable he gave. So some sort of credit was assumed. I would rather see that excessive usury be outlawed. Excessive usury like what we see now from the banksters is wrong, by any standard. Interested in your thoughts.
Not a race, but certainly a distinct culture unto itself. I say this based on my marriage to a NY Jewish "atheist." His parents were ethnically Jewish to the max but patently anti-religious. Would don a yarmukah (sp) at family weddings, but otherwise, no temple or torah for this family. I will give examples of the behaviors and mannerisms that make them "cultural Jews" that if you like. The extended family includes emigrants from Poland, Russia and Egypt (got out in the 1960s)....
Jews can be of any race. Sammy Davis Jr, Yaphet Kotto, and Connie Chung are all Jews.
There are many, many Israelis who are not Caucasian. The largest populations are of Ashkenazi (European) and Sephardic (Middle-Eastern) Jews, but that doesn't mean every Jew is Caucasian. Beta Israel (Ethiopian Jews) form a large population in Israel.
The fact that Jews define their Jewish matrilineally should not imply there is a race. First, if your father is a Jew but your mother is not, then you're not Jewish (traditionally speaking). The reverse (Jewish mother but Gentile father) does make you a Jew.
Second, anyone can convert to Judaism and Judaism forbids treating converts any different from those born Jewish. Jewish folklore is full of converts who are revered in the religion.
Think of Judaism as a large family: one you can join, but you can't really leave.
That's not true, at least not halakhically-speaking. If you are born a Jew or convert to Judaism, you will always be a Jew. It can't be reversed. (Although that might be moot if you don't self-identify as Jewish and don't care what the definition of a Jew is under halakha)
You can be atheist and still Jewish. You may not practice the Jewish faith, but if/when you do, you don't have to convert if you were atheist.
That would be all of the other 22 Arab countries where Palestinians wouldn't be singled and persecuted for their religion or perceived ethnicity. There is exactly one country where Jews are the majority and where being a Jew certainly won't subject you to murder or expulsion.
You do realize that Jews were kicked out of Arab lands when Israel was formed, right?
Libyans, Egyptians and Jordanians do not consider Palestinians to be Arabs. Palestinians do not consider themselves to be Arabs. They are Judeans who never left, and they went by the name "fellahin" (farmers) till outsiders started calling them Arabs.
You did comment on my hub "Israel: the Two Halves of the Nation" when it was first published here? Didn't you?
I'm not trying to force you to agree with me. I'm just saying this is not the first time you've heard this.
I've taken a look at your Hub, and I completely agree that people confuse Arab, Muslim, Palestinian like they are all synonymous. At any rate, like I said, I have yet to meet a Palestinian who doesn't consider him/herself Arab as well. Maybe there are some "purists" who trace their lineage to Judea or something, but most seem to not have problems calling themselves Arabs.
Maybe there's a reliable poll that says otherwise.
Livelonger, thanks! Like most people, Palestinians are proud of who they are. You will not get any Palestinian today telling you he is a Judean, because they don't want to be associated with Jews, but they will tell you that their people have always lived in Palestine, which if you think about it, is the same thing!
And as for those people who care about genetic markers, they've got the same ones. But I am not all that impressed with the racial argument. I'm just saying, they're not Arabs by anybody's estimation except complete outsiders.
Ya da ya da there are a million reasons, the point being millions of people come from one land for whatever reason take up residence in another people's land, seems like that is going to cause some major problems.
Never much cared for Political correctness. When I was a kid there was always and emphasis on proper grammar. I have always been a lover of slang. So I like to mix and match where appropriateness may be dictated by circumstance. More creative.
Wow! I am not of Jewish faith but probably started this whole debate in an earlier forum.
However, I am still confused by the issue of race. Judaism is a religion surely? Those that follow its faith are then Jews are they not, irrespective of race. There appears to be a particular lineage of people(I am not clear on what that is historically) that have assumed ownership of the religion and the title 'Jews' despite its roots transcend race as it also originally existed in Egypt/Ethiopia and they were of African descent. It is curious to me as an outside observer that despite the sad conflict, this lineage of people who have inherited the racial description of 'Jews' appear similar in appearance to the Palestinians.
There is a similar joke about people from my ethnic background where a person asks a Jamaican "Is it true that you always answer a question with a question" and the Jamaican replies "Why, who wants to know?"
I think he is just as confused as I was when I saw this title. The Jewish people I know (about 5) do refer to themselves as a "Race". It is kind of a difficult subject since you don't really want to offend people.
I agree with livelonger with everything he says. He knows what he is talking about. I can agree with Aya to some extend, but not absolutely. The nation is identified by history, culture and language. There is no such a thing as Palestinian culture, or Palestinian language. Also, there was no such a notion as Palestinians before 1948. It is the same as to call New Yorkers or Chicagoans "a nation". But is is absolutely separate topic. About Israeli citizenship. From my experience I know that Israel law allows immigration to Israel and grants citizenship up to fourth generation of Jewish descendants. Of course, if the trace goes by female line, it is easy- you are Jewish without problem. But even if you have a proof that your paternal great-grandfather was a Jew, you have a right to immigrate to Israel. Only in this case you are not considered a Jew. In Israeli ID (teudat zehut) you will NOT have written "Yehudi" ("Jewish"). This is the difference. Also, spouses of Jews are also granted citizenship. There are special cases when Israeli citizenship is granted to "Righteous among the Nations"- gentile people who were saving Jews. Many Europeans who were saving Jews during WW2 have Israeli citizenship. Another example is a brave nanny from Mumbai, who saved a Jewish child during a terroristic attack. Also, Israel grants citizenship to refugees (example- Darfur refugees). The difference is that in those cases, though Israeli citizens, these people are not Jews.
I would say, that Jews are not a religion (Judaism is a religion), not a nationality, but a Family. Big family of different races (Jews may be Caucasian, as well as black, yellow, red). It is a big Family.
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