I am wondering about racism in the world, particularly towards Africans and African-Americans. I know that there are underpinnings of racist attitudes in the US but what about other nations like Canada, Central or South America, or Europe? I assume Britian is a little more open towards blacks since they ended slavery long before America did, but I coud be wrong. Let me know.
Yes, Britain did end slavery early but what they didn't end was slave trading. This is completely different. What has happen over the years through the visual media the ideal of racism against African-American have filtered into every corner of the world. and in every corner there are those who know better. Hollywood plays a large role in this. It is taught to children at an early age through cartoons/animation. A parent must be vigilant of it at all times.
"Africans and African-Americans. I know that there are underpinnings of racist attitudes"
Today, Racism & HATE, the color is primarily black. Interracial violence is almost ALL black on white. I am appalled at the level of black racism in America today. It is out of control! The MSM dutifully covers it up (google black male massacres).
If I were black, I would truly be wondering why white people are still accepting the biggest social engineering experiment in human history (forced integration created in 1964). No people (male group) in human history hv been so incredibly tolerant of another people brazenly attacking them, raping their women, invading their homes and businesses, publicly disrespecting and insulting them (e.g. Al Sharpton going to Jena after a 6 black male beat-down - pack attack - on a lone white male and led a march protesting the white prosecutor being too tough on the black male thugs - INCREDIBLE))... as white people hv been toward blacks.
I've done an exhaustive amount of research on the black race since slavery ended in 1865 ( when blacks & whites were forced to give up their slaves). After 1865, the black race was FREE , free to build their own towns, their own cities, their own industries; and, of course, their own political environments. Blacks were SUPPOSE to be a separate and self-reliant people. Blacks CHOSE integration. It was NOT racism that was the motivating factor for white people to maintain a color line. It was ALL OF HUMAN HISTORY ie. human nature. Well, white males accepted the black race's desire ( which became a demand) to be integrated ( into the very people they're also claiming is their brutal oppressor? hmmm). White people need to be congratulated for their tolerance of such a anomaly they alone created.
I really do wish race-nullification could work...and we could all live as a happy human family. However, It is blacks over the last 45 years that hv REFUSED to cooperate as a people (many sites on the internet showing the outrageous extent of black racism, hate and violence since 1964)...and hv taken advantage of their new freedoms to strike at innocent white people. Again, I truly don't know why white people are still in this thing. Perhaps it is BEST that blacks become MASTER of their own destiny.
Racism is everywhere! it's so scary, i feel bad when i see it happen. i believe one day our people will see past the colour and know that there is fire on the mountain.
A friend of mine got framed for murder in 2006 because he's black. Racism is alive and well in America.
http://www.wgbh.org/programs/Greater-Bo … oubt-30045
Thanks for the video. It was quite disturbing but not surprising. As I've written before, black people have been arrested, convicted, and executed for crimes solely on the testimony of a white person. It brings to mind the movie, Rosewood. I know there is racism in this country. There has been since its founding. Although I do believe that is harsher since slavery than before.
You believe that racism is worse now than when slavery was practiced?
Jim Hunter, are you asking a question. If so the answer is question. Racism is not computerized and it can be carried out without notice. A recent article indicated a person returned a pair of shoes and somewhere in the computer program it asked the reason for the return. The computer printout for the you man was "Dumb Nword" I sure you remember the recent Wall-mart incident where all of the African-American were asked to leave. Now you can read daily the comment made on yahoo when a person of African origin does anything. I wish you could have read the comments about the Kenyan who won the race in Austrialia. You can make comments unseen now.
Preacherdon, you are wrong the earlier years of this country did not exhibit the type of convert and overt racism, it was the second generation. Your statement is similar to people saying they brought slaves from African. No, they brought free people and made them slaves there is a big difference. The wrong must be corrected, the printed books with misinformation create many seen and unseen problem.
I'm not sure what you're referring to, but I probably misspoke when I said racism was worse since slavery. It was more overt since slavery. During slavery, blacks were treated better because they were property and that property had to be maintain to be profitable. Some slaves lived in the main house. After slavery, everything in the north and south became worse. Blacks were hunted, shot, beaten, made to work for pennies. White supremicists arose. Houses were destroyed. People were lynched. Nearly everyone has heard of Emmitt Till. Things seem to be better up north where blacks owned businesses and some owned slaved. After slavery ended, I think some of the southern attitude migrated north with displaced workers and soldiers. I have read where segregation was as bad before the war as it was afterwards. You all correct me if I'm wrong.
lovemychris, good post!
More video links of RACISM in America:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAfjCjgj … re=related
SUCKER PUNCH - white female victim
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/item … uG6uUySGTN
Got the Stomach? END OF VIDEO - Is a Sucker Punch
I could give you many , many more. BTW, notice that the black male who launched this thread (preacherdon)...is in COMPLETE denial of the omnipresent black racism , HATE and violence toward innocent white people in America . He is in fact implying there is absolutely no evidence to it. Yes, he certainly knows the REAL truth. He is dis-respecting the milllions of white victims since 1964... White racism (violence toward innocent blacks) is a myth
I'm sure there is still a lot of racism in the USA, but here in South Florida you don't see it often. It's a melting pot of cultures. We understand each other somehow.
that's because we're awwwwwweeeesomeeee!!!
It's because it's a cultural integrity solution. I believe as Long as there is people actively in for the cause of human development and social advancement, we can truly make a difference. Sometimes non profit groups safeguarding particular racial identitys take matters too far in the name of law suits and blacklisting, and so racial identity is slumped in the process.
In Italy racism of a different sort is rampant. It's not the kind where you point the finger and tell them to get out, its the kind where you pat them on the shoulder and ask them if they are hungry and whether they have a family to feed back home.
These are second generation people who grew up here and are as Italian as anyone else, but aesthetics still plays a dominant role here.
Call it well-meaning racism if you will. But it stems from the same vein of ignorance.
Thanks for the input, Thooghun. I was wondering about racism around the world. I put in the description about racism regarding Africans and African-Americans, but I also meant to ask whether other parts of the country are racists against other groups as well? Do you recommend a black person visit Italy?
Yes, I do. You'd love it! But to give you an idea of what it's like, I'd say that sub saharan Africans are generally better integrated than other large minority groups such as eastern Europeans and north Africans, who are seen as being criminals. Black africans don't seen to suffer from the same stigmata. Although, occasionally it does happen.
Being one of the few black kids at a mostly white school I can tell you for sure racism is still alive and well.
I'll bet the few white kids at a majority black school would say the same thing.
Racism is practiced by all races, the difference is its not as bad today as it was 150 years ago.
If you think it is you are very, very wrong.
Maybe so, but I highly doubt white kids ever have to deal with hearing lynching jokes.
You think there are a lot of lynching jokes going around these days?
So what is the equivalent joke towards white people?
Not being in school, I can't testify to the popularity of lynching jokes but it wouldn't surprise me.
Still, it is improved from the actual lynchings of years past...
Like I said I was at a mostly white school and lynching jokes were among the many racist jokes I’ve heard. It was even worse for my Haitian girlfriend. All groups face racism, but I don’t think any type of racism that white people face in America compares to what blacks go through.
"but I don’t think any type of racism that white people face in America compares to what blacks go through."
Any type of racism compares.
Its all bad, wouldn't you agree?
All racism is bad, but that doesn’t mean there isn’t differing levels of racism. You can’t compare the two because normally black racism is just a response to centuries of white supremacy that still continues to this day.
White supremacy at what?
White supremacy is a myth perpetrated by insecure whites.
We have a black President, black Congressman and Senators.
Black CEO's and business leaders.
Racism is racism, there are no differing levels.
If you think black musicians and athletes equal no white supremacy then you’re fooling yourself. Black musicians and athletes didn’t mean anything during Jim Crow. There’s still a major inequality between whites and blacks in America and so far as black president has not closed the gap. A simple example is the numerous negative black stereotypes that are seen all over television and movies
"If you think black musicians and athletes equal no white supremacy then you’re fooling yourself. Black musicians and athletes didn’t mean anything during Jim Crow."
That is exactly the point, we are not living in the time of Jim Crow.
Again I ask, What white supremacy?
My point was that black musicians and athletes are not a real sign of progress. They never have been. I just gave you one example of white supremacy and that’s the media’s constant negative portrayal of black people. Another more serious example will be the poverty in many African nations. Those nations were drained of their wealth and resources for decades and as of yet have not received serious compensation for the crimes committed against them, while European nations and America continue toe enjoy that stolen wealth.
The same inequality exists today in my country despite it's apparent lack of racism.
This racism towards our indigenous people is currently under attack from all corners and will hopefully become just a nasty memory soon.
People are just individuals. It is not just about race, some people don't like people who are different to themselves regardless of race.
These are the ones who need educating regardless of where they sit on the social ladder.
"My point was that black musicians and athletes are not a real sign of progress."
It is a real sign of progress, not too many years ago they were not allowed on the same field as white players. Now they dominate that same field in numbers.
Whether you want to admit its progress or not is up to you.
The progress has come slow admittedly but it has come, looking for racism instead of looking for opportunity will only slow your pace.
Now? Black athletes have been dominating since the days of Jim Crow, but that didn’t help any civil rights bills to pass, nor did it end groups like the KKK. Wyatt Tee Walker was one of the leading civil rights activists in the 60s and even he said that all the progress that was made after integration was more cosmetic than anything else. Racial equality had been moving at snail’s pace since the birth of America and not much has changed.
"Black athletes have been dominating since the days of Jim Crow"
I'm not talking about athletic prowess, I'm talking about playing against and with whites. It happened before civil rights legislation and probably helped a lot in getting that legislation passed simply because it did show equality.
Jesse Owens won 4 gold medals. Not only was he not invited to the white house like the less successful white Olympic athletes were, he eventually ended up racing horses for a living. So I fail to see any examples of a black athlete helping to pass legislation simply by dominating in their sport. Muhammad Ali winning a gold medal didn’t allow him into white restaurants. Nothing blacks did during that era was enough to prove their equality.
You don't think the press of Robinson breaking the color barrier in baseball led to whites maybe changing their minds about how they looked at black people?
How about Martin Luther King?
Do you think his acts had anything to do with people seeing blacks in a different view than they had previously?
All of these things and more led to the civil rights legislation.
You sell these men short if you don't think so.
MLK wasn’t an athlete and Robinson was still treated with disrespect by racists. Having successful black athletes has never and will never create equality between whites and blacks. For decades the stereotype was that the only thing blacks are good at is sports and entertainment, and to some extent it still is. The only thing that has ever created equality for black people are political movements and education. Everything else is cosmetic.
Who said MLK was an athlete?
Jack Roosevelt "Jackie" Robinson (January 31, 1919 – October 24, 1972) was the first black Major League Baseball (MLB) player of the modern era. Robinson broke the baseball color line when he debuted with the Brooklyn Dodgers in 1947. As the first black man to play in the major leagues since the 1880s, he was instrumental in bringing an end to racial segregation in professional baseball, which had relegated black players to the Negro leagues for six decades. The example of his character and unquestionable talent challenged the traditional basis of segregation, which then marked many other aspects of American life, and contributed significantly to the Civil Rights Movement.
What I have said over and over is that change came slow, but Robinson and MLK had an impact on the civil rights movement and the later legislation.
You would have us believe these men were nothing but decoration.
They were much more than you can evidently understand...Sad.
The topic was black athletes and you brought up MLK. He’s kind of irrelevant to the current discussion. You keep going on about Robinson, but you have to show me where a black athlete ever passed any legislation through dominating whichever sport they played and quoting from Wikipedia doesn’t make a case for your argument either. Like I said sports and music have never won anybody freedom anywhere. Education and political movements do.
What’s sad is you’re trying to equate black athletes succeeding in sports to social equality.
This guy needs some smelling sauce. First blacks cannot practice racism, they can express prejudice. Racism is a system wherein you control the education jobs and well being of a person or group. If you can't see who is racist in this someone help us all
Why can't blacks practice racism?
Asians can practice racism.
Mexicans can practice racism.
Any race can practice racism.
By the way its smelling salts.
Because blacks have never been in the position to create racism. Whenever you find a black person who has a racist attitude toward whites it likely stems from white oppression. Black people didn’t pass Jim Crow or create apartheid.
No, for you it's sauce so you can smear around you face and have constant contact. Now, I said and explained why so-called minorities cannot practice racism. Did you read it? Prejudice and racism are two different animals.
"I said and explained why so-called minorities cannot practice racism."
Yep, you said it, and you were wrong.
Jim Hunter, I am only wrong because you either don't know the definition or you lack the mental capability to comprehend the concept. Oh! by the way you are not alone.
I see what you're saying, but I think you'll find (feel free to look it up) that it's simply one way among several of defining it.
Regarding prejudice and racism being separate: I always thought that racism was a form of prejudice based on race. And therefore inextricably linked.
Oh course, I get the feeling that we'll agree to disagree given the tone of the run-up.
Here is the definition.
1. The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.
2. Discrimination or prejudice based on race.
So like I said, you are wrong.
That is my oldest son. We live in rural West Virginia. Aside from my mother-in-law (immigrant german 78 year old) calling him "colored" he has experienced exactly one episode of racism in his life. That was a student dropping the "N-bomb" and he was expelled for the rest of the school year.
So, if the hicks aren't racist anymore why are the city-folk?
Sorry to hear about what happened to your son. As they say, kids can be cruel and biracial kids get it twice as bad. Makes you wonder what they say, Do kids really learn hatred and bigotry at home? or is it inate?
It's learned at home and sometimes at school/
My little ones are an example of kids that are not racist, My 7 year old grandson just had a birthday and the kids he invited, both boys and girls by the way were from many different races.
Both my Caucasian teenagers have black and Asian friends that they hang out with all the time. I know, because I drive them to their friends houses, have met them at our house etc.
Kids have to learn to hate other races.
My dad was Indigenous ,my Mum white. It was tough for them 50 yrs ago, but education is the key ,not ignorance or hostility.
Great observations kiwi! Can I call you kiwi?
It is a term of endearment in Australia.
We love our funny cousins who can't speak English properly and say sex when they mean six!
The indigenous New Zealanders that I know are a generous and loving people.
Funny cousins across the pond huh
A six pack after six sometimes leads to sex..
Earnest you are gonna laugh at this but my new friends here(U.S) think I sound like an Aussie OR like Supernanny ..
Flamin bloody Nora ,hehe.
Sure call me Kiwi
Yes, they have to learn to hate. I have never seen a racist 2 or 3 year old. Surprised at a different skin color, yes. Shocked and a little afraid, yes. Cautious, yes. Just the same as if the person was obviously handicapped or deformed in some way (missing arm perhaps).
And when they come together it takes about 5 seconds to figure out that it's just another kid to play with. So much smarter than their parents, they are!
Noticing differences is innate. Disliking those differences can either come from environment or personality. I know plenty of people with loving open parents that hate one group or another just because they are a$$hats.
It's learned at home. School can perpetuate it, but a good home bringing will allow the child the services to ignore what other wise may have been learned in school.
Racism, Hate, Love, Bigotry, Violence, Rudeness, Kindness etc.. it is ALL learned (or NOT learned) at home.
What you do within the confines of your own home is the most important work you will ever do.
Racists kids are products of a racist (or ignorant) home whom now have a higher likelihood of growing into racists adults.
Racist adults are those kids that never learned the value of a human based on character instead of color.
My hubby is from Hicksville ,and many are openly disparaging toward blacks.
To quote one person "We are a white town ,we dont want them moving in here and turning the place into a ghetto".
Gorgeous pic of your son too Melissa.
There is racism in my home country,but it is streets ahead of the USA in many respects.
I notice racism when I travel. I spent 22 years living in down-town Melbourne where you will hear 180 different languages spoken in the main shopping streets.
There is still racism here, but most of it has gone underground since the last spat of legislative changes which provides heavy fines and jail terms for racial vilification.
Having said that, for the most part it is history.
Author Peter Manso, about Chris McCowen:
"If he had been white, he would not even have been arrested."
That is racism. That was said just last week.
I have a confession to make; my father is most likely racist towards blacks and subtly racist towards the Chinese. I witnessed my father's racism first hand as a young adult. He did a very good job hiding it throughout my youth, but as I got older, I heard/saw indications of what he truly felt.
For example, during the Katrina disaster, there was a news story about "looting." I put looting in quotations because after the disaster New Orleans was 80% flooded, people were stranded and hungry, so yes, they took some food from the convenience store that would go bad in a few days.
My father made the remark, "I'm not racist, but don't you notice how the majority these thieves have black skin?" I responded, "New Orleans is 90% black, of course the majority of people caught on camera happen to be black." That shut him up, well and good, but I'll never forget the look he handed me. . .
I've also heard my father make a disparaging remark towards a certain news host because she was Chinese. He said exactly, "she can't be a news host, she's Chinese." Once again, I found myself shaking my head.
I wish I could say my sisters didn't pick up on this trash, but they did. I'll never forget the following words coming from my sister, "Don," she said, "you're a loser for not having a college degree. You say you worked hard and still failed college? You're making excuses like a black person."
I wish I could say my mother was any different. She's at the twilight of her teaching career. She went all the way up superintendent of the school board. Now, she's semi-retired and tutoring kids with special needs. She often shows pictures of the children she tutors to me, as if they were trophy prizes; frankly I find it a disgusting exercise of self-praising. Not a single kid she has shown me was black. They were all white. I seriously doubt only white kids have learning disabilities. And I wish I could say it's a coincidence that all the kids she has tutored happened to be white, but somehow I very much doubt that. . .
I can't bring myself to respect my parents any longer. In retrospect, they've had life easy. Simply put, "the system" was made for them and they were able to get advanced degrees relatively quickly and easily in prosperous economic times. They bought a big house in their early 20's and have never had to switch jobs in their entire lives. They have worked for the government for 30+ years amassing easy wealth and now own 3 houses. They never had to take any risks in amassing this wealth and have worked nothing but the conventional 9 to 5.
They claim to be benevolent liberal socialists, but truth be told, they're the most selfish people I know. On the surface, a lot of people in the community admire my parents, but they put on a good business face that fools many people. It's a case of "if only they knew what these people are like behind closed doors."
I wish I could say my parents are a unique case, but I’m afraid they’re a good representation of most white baby boomer “professionals” who never had to work a shitty job their entire lives.
So we're not all left to the fate of our parents. I have already paid a heavy price by refusing to surrender to their fate. . .
This is in Canada by the way. We don't live in Alabama.
Yes, there is such a thing as white priviledge.
Most of us white people don't even realize it!
We never consider that we are not free to go where we want, or welcomed anywhere we go!!!
Jobs, schools, stores...we would never think we weren't welcomed.
It's such an ugly part of life. And so stupid. And a cruel, cruel history.
New Orleans in 2004 was about 63% black.
DonWest, only the truly dense here cannot see that you hv serious relationship issues with your parents i.e. you don't like them very much. I could take a few stabs at why you dislike them, but nothing could be accomplished with that. As for your father pointing out that blacks were looting in NO after Katrina struck, well, it is crystal clear to everyone (even Kanye West) who was doing the looting - blacks. It was also blacks who were taking shots at rescue helicopters; and terrorizing people who gathered New Orleans Superdome. Many internet articles/blogs on this (the shooting incidences appear to be a bit overblown but they still happened).
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/09/ … 4623.shtml
Further, what I find so distasteful about your comment here DnnWest, is that you're taking cheap shots at people who aren't here to defend themselves. You've given us nothing but hearsay. Deplorable. Truly deplorable. I hope you seek profession help to get over anger issues with your parents.
Thanks, Don, for the honest post. I've wondered about Canada. I always thought of them as progressive, I guess, until I saw an episode of Flashpoint that depicted racism in Canada. So, I was wondering if it was as covert and pervasive as it is in the US or were things better there. As Melissa said earlier, some racism is environmental and maybe that's how your parents came by it and it was passed on to your siblings.
Interesting thoughts. What I always wondered was how the concept of racism was even created. sure, not everyone is the exact same, but how would that make different people inferior? But I like your thoughts.
I believe it is important for an individual to embrace the country they are from as their culture, and not to separate ones self from their ties to that country by claiming the culture of their ancestry. Ultimately multiculturalism causes division and subservience of races. Just be an American if you're an American and don't focus so much on the prejudices of others.
Just sayin dude........
Racism is evident everywhere. Nepal where there are 106 recorded languages and 92 races too, is out and out racist.
There will always be racism with all cultures, there are just some cruel people in the world. However, I am British and very rarely discover any racist conversations. Everyone is equal.
I'm going to get blasted for this, I just know it.
I think a lot of racism is perceived rather than actual. The problem is you don't know what another human beings true motives are. I think, at times, some members of a minority may see racism or prejudiced where none exists because they have experienced it at other times in their lives. Hyperviligence.
A personal example. When I am out with my son, very few-if any- people seem surprised when he calls me mom. We we are out as a family, we get raised eyebrows when he calls me mom and my husband (who is white) dad. I don't see it as racism, I see it as a WTF? moment. My husband gets terribly upset about those moments, because he loves Kyle with all his heart and wants to defend him from bigotry. Kyle and I see no bigotry at all there.
Another example- My son goes to a certain music store all the time with no problems. One day him and his friend (a long haired goth/metal type) went to the store and were followed by security. His friend assumed it was because Kyle was black.
I rambled a bit, but I guess I'm trying to say don't see racial motivation when none is present.
Excuse me, I hate to push a little day light into your darkness, but America is not the World...not America nor England. There are nations in which the majority is B L A C K Where from the Prime Minister, to the commissioner of Police, to the High School Principal is B L A C K.
In many of these nations, people don't like other people because they are other people. It may be 'tribe' or 'politics' or 'class' but it has nothing to do with complexion.
Since the election of Obama in America I would say that America has become more racist...it is as if they voted for a black man and then having elected a black man are wondering how they 'let down the white race'.
Racism is where you find it, and although it may be the kind of... I don't like people who are not like me kind... much of it is based on steriotypes, which are , sadly, adopted by those who will suffer the response to the steriotype.
I think you highlight the difference between predjudice and racism very well.
Racism in my opinion is often handled differently from country to country. Even from state to state ,or province to province.
It still seems very fragile here in the USA and it really hasn't been that long since segregation was an issue in terms of significant social changes.
Rascism is ugly and often its whats not said that continues to fuel and keep people divided.
I'm white, so I haven't gone through my life as an African-American and experienced life as someone who isn't white. Besides, even as a white person, I'm aware that there's still racism out there (although, honestly, it's awfully rare that I've seen/heard it and it hasn't been from anyone I've been with/around personally.
I'm under the impression that whether we (any of us) see racism depends on the general kind of area where we live. If there's a lot of ignorance and little enough accomplishment that people make themselves feel better by singling out one group/race or another, racism seems to show up. If one lives where people aren't the rock-bottom ignorant of society, I don't think (at least white people) witness it (toward African-Americans or people of any other color) from one year/decade to the next.
In this country the bigger divide is the cultural divide between ignorant people and "regular" people. Those two groups can come in any color, and the ignorant people are ignorant about pretty much everyone and everything. I'm sure that in my geographic area of "regular people" there are some racists behind some of the front doors, but they probably know enough how socially unacceptable it is in some areas (geographic or areas of life) to express racist thinking. It isn't great that some may think that way, but if they keep quiet about it and don't inflict it on anyone else, it's the next best thing to their not being racists at all, I suppose.
The cultural divide in the US is so obvious that it highlights the fact that differences between people are most often associated with their hearts and minds - and not with whatever color they are. People who equate differences only with what shows up on the outside are really missing the boat on "differences" between people.
For my whole life, I've never really witnessed racism (against someone else, of course) first hand. I've been aware of how bad it can be/has been because of seeing/hearing about it going on in other areas. At the same time, I wouldn't ever try to minimize the level of racism that may be out there just because I haven't witnessed it myself. I've lived my life as a woman in a world that, these days, so often doesn't have a clue about how much sexism, misogyny, and oppression there is out there, that at least some women (maybe some more than others) deal with on a day-to-day basis. To me, there's nothing worse than living in a world where people don't even know how badly it exists; which is why I've always been very careful not to minimize, or to fail to recognize, that if someone else says racism remains a more serious problem than it appear to me, I'm not one to second-guess them.
People are people!! Its very sad to see racism in our world. We are all God's children!!
I am white, I have felt racism from a couple of African Americans toward me, but I don't account the whole race for it. Both sides need to learn and heal. I believe in people. If they are different than me, then they are the more interesting to learn about.
About two weeks ago a friend and I were chased from a parking lot by a group of blacks. We got the "Yo man. Hey c''mere" thing and my friend says "f*ck RUN! " We took off. Were heading into a nightclub and they were obviously waiting for someone to park where we did. We were darn lucky! we both made it to the club. We both knew darn well what awaited us if we got caught by these guys (5 or 6 at least).
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_crim … sure_.html
At least this guy didn't wind up in a coma in a hospital
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