Some good points there, London Girl.
Maybe there is no answer, but I hope that the world keeps trying. The Turkish Cypriots and Greek Cypriots have finally started communicating, so maybe there is some hope in this corner of the Mediterranean.
Yeah here's hoping. But I doubt it ever will while the American government supports this insanity. They don't seem to care about the Christian community in Gaza either. The American people should be disgusted with this.
LondonGirl I wouldn't believe everything coming from zionists. In fact I wouldn't believe anything.
Today the U.N. said there is a health and food crisis in Gaza.
I have no doubt that the humanitarian situation is bad and getting worse.
But I don't think the previous poster was right when (s)he said that there had been no food / electricity / medicines into Gaza for 6 months.
For example, and Islamic Relief worker in Gaza said today:
"Over the past 12 months Islamic Relief has delivered food assistance to 40,000 families, in addition to supplying vast amounts of medical equipment, hygiene kits and kitchen tools to half a million people."
"We are now communicating with suppliers outside the Gaza Strip. We are trying to prepare for what lies ahead in the coming days."
The BBC reported in October:
"Israel's attorney general has intervened to suspend plans to restrict electricity supplies to the Gaza Strip.
Israel has already begun reducing petrol and diesel supplies - it says the action is in response to rocket attacks by Palestinian militants.
The government's senior legal adviser said on Monday that ways of limiting the humanitarian effects of reducing the electricity supply had to be found.
UN chief Ban Ki-moon has called the plans punitive and unacceptable."
"Gaza relies on Israel for almost all its fuel and petrol, and more than half of its electricity.
Israel says fuel cuts of up to 15% are a non-violent way of increasing pressure on Hamas. Israel started implementing the cuts on Sunday.
It insists there will be enough power for hospitals and that supplies will continue to Gaza's sole power station. "
There's now suggestions that "the European Union and particularly the UK, that's been so supportive of Israel for so long should withdraw it's ambassadors as a sign of it's disapproval of the slaughter and systematic murder of innocent Arabs taking place today in Gaza." This video states that 3 quarters of the population of the European Union supports the Palestinians.
Truly Different and ReuVera do you expect them to just lie down and take your war crimes?
Zionist War Crimes (Genocide In Palestine)
You talk about your promised land but do you ever read your Torah?
Jeremiah 31:32 says, "Not according to the covenant which I made with their fathers, in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt: the covenant which they made void, and I had dominion over them, saith the Lord."
Are you waiting for all the kingdoms of the earth to come against you first like it says in Zechariah 12?
The writer is quoting scriptures out of context.
The believers never should use Word of God against the Brothers unless one pray for them first.
The Scripture said as fallow:
NKJV Jeremiah 31:1 "At the same time," says the LORD, "I will be the God of all the families of Israel, and they shall be My people."
2 Thus says the LORD: "The people who survived the sword found grace in the wilderness; Israel, when I went to give him rest."
3 The LORD has appeared of old to me, saying: "Yes, I have loved you with an everlasting love; Therefore with loving-kindness I have drawn you.
31 "Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah;
32 "not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the LORD.
33 "But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.
According to Bible God said that He will bring Israel home! And He did. But He never said to Israel first you have to repent and be good boys and I will give you land.
But time is coming when entire Israel will receive God
There is no business of Arabs or who else who came work to Israel and now claim the land. Arabs own land 98% and Israel only 2 %. Entire East bank, Jordan belongs to Israel. Only people against the God can fight this. But it is not good for them.
Then God said: For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.
It's not taken out of context at all. It doesn't matter whether it's read from the NKJV, "My covenant which they broke", the KJV, "which my covenant they brake" or the DRB, "the covenant which they made void". They all say their fathers broke the covenant. And it doesn't matter whether you read the whole chapter or the whole Bible, it still says the same.
Yes according to the Bible God said that He will bring Israel home and He did more than 2000 years ago as you can read from this web site that quotes many verses from the Old and New Testaments, http://www.mountainretreatorg.net/escha … ribes.html
But in the end God will send two witnesses for the conversion of the Jews to the faith of Jesus Christ. This is too big of a story to cover in one post so you can read it all on this thread if you want, http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/8543?page=3
If you think that the state of Israel is God bringing Israel home then why do you think that not all Jews want to immigrate to Israel? Or why do you think there are so many Jews speaking out against the atrocities committed against the Palestinians? Or why do you think the True Torah Jews would quote Grand Rabbi Shalom Dov Ber from Lubavitch with this below on the front page of their web site?
This photo is from their web site.
By the way, my brothers are both Jews and Arabs.
Gen 12:6 And Abram passed through the land unto the place of Sichem, unto the plain of Moreh. And the Canaanite was then in the land.
Gen 12:7 And the LORD appeared unto Abram, and said, Unto thy seed will I give this land: and there builded he an altar unto the LORD, who appeared unto him.
The Lord never said He might give the land to Abram's seed. He said, "I will give it." Nowhere in the Bible does it state that He took it back. Israel did indeed break the covenant with God, but God is still faithful.
Amo 9:13 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that the plowman shall overtake the reaper, and the treader of grapes him that soweth seed; and the mountains shall drop sweet wine, and all the hills shall melt.
Amo 9:14 And I will bring again the captivity of my people of Israel, and they shall build the waste cities, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and drink the wine thereof; they shall also make gardens, and eat the fruit of them.
Amo 9:15 And I will plant them upon their land, and they shall no more be pulled up out of their land which I have given them, saith the LORD thy God.
Not quite sure what these scriptural diversions contribute towards navigating the tricky minefield of Middle Eastern politics.
It is only as a reply for Make Money, nothing more. I don't expect everyone to believe the Bible, but I expect if they use a part of it they should also consider the rest.
In actuality, the conflict in Israel will not be resolved until the two sides hate for one another is eliminated.
Fair point well made, SirDent - my misinterpretation.
I am with you on the second point - How to help this process is the problem. Maybe it will be a generational thing.
It is possible that it will be a generational thing, but the way it seems at this time is the elimination of one or the other. Hate is all it's essence, destroys the object, or person it is directed to or at. That's just how it is.
In many other similar theatres, they forget what they are fighting about, which is very tragic. It then becomes, as you say, a cycle of self fulfilling hatred. In Ireland and Cyprus, the younger generations decided that they were fed up of having no future. We can only hope for the same in the Middle East.
It is on fire at the moment - staying well out of that one!
I don't recall saying that I supported anything on this thread. If I did you will have to find it for me. I only replied to your previous post about Israel making void the covenant with God. Only God can make it void. Israel may forget their end of the deal, but God never forgets His part.
You really shouldn't believe all you read in those emails that are sent to hundreds of people. And you seem pretty picks as to what you believe and what you don't believe. You really should try and open your mind once in a while...if you can take it.
The terrorist regime (Hamas) in Palestine has no more legitimacy that a pack of bandits or pirates. Their very existence is, rightfully, at the pleasure of Israel.
I am beginning to think you are just a troll.
Surely no one (other than asu) is actually this naive and ignorant?
I was sure in this a while ago
ETA: Oops, Misha beat me to it!
First of all, well said! Israel could have already blown them off the face of the earth, yet hasn't. Secondly, you have now been compared to me. That's a slam and means you are not a left wing liberal. And you are not a troll. They tend to call people this who post and don't agree with their agenda.
Damn dolphins. They think they are so bloody smart
Porpoises are ok in my book though.
Watch out for the ducks, though. Sneaky little blighters.
What is wrong with you people? Do you hate freedom so much you would bring up these?
Sheesh! Everyone knows these are evil and go against the word of god by proving that Palestinians should be killed, I mean, Oh wait...... I am mixing my rhetorical garbage up.
Now I am so confused. Where is a right-wing, conservative, christian truth-teller when you need one?
Well Israel has started the incursion into Gaza with ground troops.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle … 809959.stm
Meanwhile tens of thousands are starting to protest this all over the world.
From the above link.
From this site http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/s … TopStories
The news has also said there have been protests against Israel in Germany and many other countries. There are protests today in most large cities in Canada. In Toronto riot police have had to separate protectors against Israel from the smaller protest group for Israel.
Palestinian blood is also on your hands asu and all American christian zionists. In case you are not aware this map shows the reason for the Hamas home made rockets.
Mike - it is not often you and I agree on anything but for once ......
Blood on their hands, but they do not care. The lord is on their side.
I doubt they could actually throw much at 10, Downing Street - the whole road has gates at the end?
I've been noticing that we agree on things like this for quite some time Mark. How could they possibly think that the Lord is on their side regarding this genocide.
To be honest, I don't have an answer that makes any sense. I guess it makes them feel justified/better/holier/more important in some way. It just makes me feel bad.
Remember the cognitive dissonance? How can you rationalize or justify this? No way. Hell on earth for these people I think.
I am not sure this has anything to do with religion - that it just an excuse - like the social darwinists, or the communists or the catholic auto da fe. All the same from my perspective. I appreciate the need to defend yourself as much as anyone, but this is just plain "wrong," and I have lost all respect for Israel that I started with.
Of course, I never had any respect for the christian, zionist war-mongers who "hate war."
"How could they possibly think that the Lord is on their side regarding this genocide." Good question Mike, but your the religious guy - aren't you suppose these things.
My guess - the reasoning is God gave Palistine to the Jews. Since the Palistinians are not exactly enamored of this gift, they are defying God's Will. As such, would they not deserve what they get, and would it not be that this desert would be blessed by God?
Hi knolyourself I posted this on the previous page. It seems they don't read their Torah and christian zionists miss this in their Bible.
It should be noted that most Jews are against zionism for this reason.
Mark it seems like John Nelson Darby, Theodor Hertzel and Cyrus Scofield are mostly to blame for their delusion.
Yes, I have an agenda. To prevent the deaths of hundreds of innocent people...Palestinian and Israeli.
Israel is endangering their own citizens the more they attack and many Israeli's are against this current campaign.
I notice that every single topic ASU posts to ends up being about her being persecuted for her beliefs...
My headline- Israel is NOT fighting against Arab people. Israel is fighting against TERRORISTS.
I will pretend that I haven’t read anything of above, that I’m stupid and absolutely uninformed. So! Help me to understand the situation.
Question # 0- Are Arab civilians being killed only in Gaza? What about Sudan (Darfur), Iran, Afghanistan? Arabs killed by Arabs. What about Gaza civilians killed while Hamas and Fatah are fighting between themselves? Anybody is outraged by this?
Q # 1- Is Hamas a terroristic organization?
Q # 2- If so and they are ruling in Gaza, will you agree that Gaza is ruled by a terroristic organization?
Q # 3- Did terroristic organization Hamas start to shell rockets on Israeli towns in December, or Israel first started bombing military objects in Gaza?
Q # 4- Is Israel a sovereign country?
Q # 5- What is a sovereign country supposed to do in this situation, when its territory is being bombed by terrorists?
Q # 6- Do you know that Hamas holds their weapon storages and shooting points in living quarters in Gaza?
Q # 7- Who makes the life in Gaza dangerous for civilians- Israel who is forced to fight terrorists and at the same time lets humanitarian help into Gaza, or Hamas who uses Gaza as their war pad?
I will appreciate if somebody answers all these questions without prejudice and with clear head.
And the last question is just for me myself and it is rhetoric-
How come that in The Six Day War (1967) Israel fought five countries/five armies at a time and absolutely won, but now having one of the most powerful and strongest Army, Israel is not going anywhere but just making a mess?
My guess- contemporary Israel does not have the right leadership.
But, please, answer my questions.
How you doing? Good to see you. Pretty flag. I don't think I would be considered a good person to answer your questions as I don't feel most people on here feel I have a clear head. But I am anxious to see if there is anyone brave enough to answer them truthfully. Have you heard the latest headlines from hubpages? The report is that the Palestinians blood are on my hands. See the above posts. So, now you know the truth! I mean, who could argue with that? A backwoods redneck in Mississippi is responsible for all this. Did you know that Isreal calls me to get their orders? Shocking huh?
Hi, brave backwoods redneck from Mississippi! I saw this “accusation”. I just grinned. How else one can react on this stupidity? Go wash your hands
If you dig posts above, you’ll see that I gave lots of information which no one even tried to think over critically.
So, now I am just sitting here in my neck of the woods and waiting for anyone to give me honest answers on my naïve questions.
So, now I am just sitting here in my neck of the woods and waiting for anyone to give me an honest reaction to my answers to naïve questions.
My guess- answers will be ignored or twisted. There’s no way to stop or change demagogues.
More than two hours passed since my answers, I am off to bed my dear ladies. Just for the record, your questions were answered within an hour or so. Good night
0. Yes, civilians of all races and religions get killed all over the place. And many people rightly get upset with this. This particular thread was devoted to Israel-Palestine variety of mass killings.
1. Yes. As much as Mossad and CIA are.
2. Not sure they are ruling Gaza officially, but if yes - then yes. They are not alone, though. The USA is ruled by international terrorists, for example.
3. First the country of Israel was created on the territory that belonged to Arabs for a long time - see my first post on this thread. So, if you are going to argue on a kindergarten level "who was wrong first", first was Israel.
5. It is supposed to find ways to stop terrorists. It is not supposed to kill civilians en masse instead. At least if it pretends to be a part of civilized World.
6. I don't have access to military intelligence reports, so I can't tell. Neither can you.
7. Both Israel and Hamas
I'm waiting too. I see no answers yet though. I think you're right about washing my hands. I never know when Israel will phone me for advice and I'll need clean hands to answer the phone. I'm wondering if the subject will get changed, your questions will be ignored, or the whole thread will be dropped. Guess we'll see.
To ALL and EVERYONE on this forum:
I have to cut my vacation and instead of next Sunday I’m going home tomorrow. Misha, to your information, Vera is on her way to Israel right now; she should be in New York right now, catching with her connection, so excuse her for ignoring you answers . I was visiting her family (clever Misha, you got it right, there was a connection). We couldn’t arrange tickets for the flight together, too short of a notice.
Before I leave, my 2 cents here and there (no time for quotes)- when Jews were given land of Israel as a country in 1948, it was nothing but desert, bogs, swamps, sands and dust (look at it now- blooming gardens, HI-Tech, holy sights are open for everyone). There were many Arabs living there at that time and nobody forced them out of the land. My grandfather (Immigrant from Romania) lived there at that time. He was telling me, he had many friends among Arabs, he was campaigning to keep them in Israel. Jews were saying to Arabs- Stay with us, let’s build this country together. Some few staid. Majority left. Left by their choice. There was no much movement from Arabs for the land of Israel prior to 1967.
Anyway, Misha, read again if you missed it before, there is info there for many who don’t know.
1.Nationhood and Jerusalem - Israel became a nation in 1312 B.C.E., two thousand years before the rise of Islam.
2. Arab refugees in Israel began identifying themselves as part of a Palestinian people in 1967, two decades after the establishment of the modern State of Israel.
3. Since the Jewish conquest in 1272 B.C.E. the Jews have had dominion over the land for one thousand years with a continuous presence in the land for the past 3,300 years.
4. Arabs have only had control of Israel twice - from 634 until the Crusader invasion in June 1099, and from 1292 until the year 1517 when they were dispelled by the Turks in their conquest.
5. For over 3,300 years, Jerusalem has been the Jewish capital. Jerusalem has never been the capital of any Arab or Muslim entity. Even when the Jordanians occupied Jerusalem, they never sought to make it their capital, and Arab leaders did not come to visit.
6. Jerusalem is mentioned over 700 times in Tanach, the Jewish Holy Scriptures. Jerusalem is not mentioned once in the Koran. There are vague references to Jerusalem in the Hadiths - stories about Mohammed - that he stopped his night journey (which the Koran explains took place in a dream!) at the "farther mosque" (or "distant place"). Muslims explain that this means "at the edge of the Temple mount", although no direct reference to Jerusalem or the Temple Mount is made.
7. King David established the city of Jerusalem as Israel's capital. Mohammed never came to Jerusalem.
8. Jews pray facing Jerusalem. Some Muslims (i.e. those between Israel and Saudi Arabia) pray with their backs toward Jerusalem.
9. Arab and Jewish Refugees - In 1948 the Arab refugees were encouraged to leave Israel by Arab leaders promising to purge the land of Jews. Sixty eight percent left without ever seeing an Israeli soldier.
10. The Jewish refugees were forced to flee from Arab lands due to Arab brutality, persecution and pogroms.
11. The number of Arab refugees who left Israel in 1948 is estimated to be around 630,000. The number of Jewish refugees from Arab lands is estimated to be the same.
12. Arab refugees were INTENTIONALLY not absorbed or integrated into the Arab lands to which they fled, despite the vast Arab territory. Out of the 100,000,000 refugees since World War II, theirs is the only refugee group in the world that has never been absorbed or integrated into their own peoples' lands. Jewish refugees were completely absorbed into Israel, a country no larger than the state of New Jersey.
13. The Arab - Israeli Conflict - The Arabs are represented by eight separate nations, not including the Palestinians. There is only one Jewish nation. The Arab nations initiated all five wars and lost. Israel defended itself each time and won.
14. The P.L.O.'s Charter still calls for the destruction of the State of Israel. Israel has given the Palestinians most of the West Bank land, autonomy under the Palestinian Authority, and has supplied them with weapons.
15. Under Jordanian rule, Jewish holy sites were desecrated and the Jews were denied access to places of worship. Under Israeli rule, all Muslim and Christian sites have been preserved and made accessible to people of all faiths.
16. The U.N. Record on Israel and the Arabs - Of the 175 Security Council resolutions passed before 1990, 97 were directed against Israel.
17. Of the 690 General Assembly resolutions voted on before 1990, 429 were directed against Israel.
To allshookup, Vladimir Uhri and some other few who are strong and uninfluenced- thank you for your support of Israel. Stay strong. G-D bless you and your families.
This means 'agreeing with you'. everyone else, presumably, is weak and influenced?
Look back at the posts here. No-one is a Hamas supporter. Yet everyone (except, of course, the strong and uninfluenced) can see that the mass killing of the past few days is a travesty of justice. A war crime. An abomination. And, as Sufidreamer and Uninvited Writer have stated, wholly counter-productive. Israel, to prosper, needs international support. They are blowing it all away, squandering the last vestiges of goodwill, in this barbaric response to Hamas's rocket response to Israel's ongoing blockade of Gaza.
I am not going to address your list. I do have an opinion on many of these points that differs from yours. I don't have any interest in arguing over those points with random anonymous. More, this list is absolutely irrelevant to the topic we are discussing here, and to the point we are trying to make and you keep missing.
Even if Israel is an angel 100% and Hamas is a devil 100%, this does not give Israel the right to kill civilians, even if those civilians are of the same nationality with Hamas.
And this is probably all part of your Dispensationalist fairy tale imagery. I can't wait till you LeHaye types get pidgeon-holed and cutoff with no real way to gain political power.
http://www.doesgodexist.org/NovDec08/De … alism.html
Criticizing Israel is not the same as being against it. I have much regard for the way they built up the country but they have thrown it all away by constantly bombing the Palestinians. Yes, they get attacked but retaliation does not work. It has never worked. It will never work.
Here's the True Torah Jews comment quoted from The Torah Position on the Current Conflict in Gaza.
Hi aka-dj. I think what Zarm is saying is that without Destructive Dispensationalism most of what Truly Different says from number 9 and on would not have been able to take place because just dispensationalists, mostly from the U.S. are zionist's only support, well besides freemasons. If zionists didn't have this support from dispensationalists then there would be no Palestine issue. Correct me if I'm wrong Zarm. I particularly agree big time with the last two sentences in the article.
Lately there has been a lot of talk about a one state solution for Palestine/Israel, with Muslims, Jews and Christians having equal rights. It's surprising to see that it's mostly Jews from Israel that are writing about this. I think it's a good idea, especially if they made Jerusalem an international city like it was originally suppose to be in the 1948 UN plan.
Not sure exactly what everyone is on about.
Prphetically, Israel is fulfilling it's destiny. The problems with the Palestinians (re two state solution) is that it won't work. The Moslems do not want Israel in the land. PERIOD. all the rest is rhetoric. VERY COSTLY rhetoric. Lives are lost, and no peace in sight. It has little or none to do with Dispensationalism or absence of it.
Revelation teaches thatthe Jews will be back in (their) promised land, the temple has to be rebuilt, (and dessecrated by the Antichrist). The Lord Himself will "land" on the mount of Olives etc. etc. Now I know many deny, don't believe or ignore prophecy, but that's not my problem.
Aka-dj - Revelation should be ignored completely in trying to arrive at a modern political solution to a modern political problem. Encourage political leaders to sort this out and by all means sit in the sidelines and place ticks or crosses in your personal prophesy sheet. But realise that it's just a game and not one you can force others to play.
The game will be played,regardless, is my whole point! From what I have read on the "politics" of the conflict, Israel's neigbours (enemies) WILL not have peace untill Israel is destroyed. There have been numerous opportunities for solution(s), they just weren't taken foreward.
as for your comment re Revelation needing to be ignored, it probably is (by the players). All I was saying there is that it gives (us) a glimpse of where it will go. Kind of like a mirror. It shows you how you look, but didn't make you look the way you do.
It has everything to do with dispensationalists. By supporting the zionist state dispensationalists are forcing God's hand and working for the other side (the antichrist).
Dispensationalists may want to think about listening to what Grand Rabbi Shalom Dov Ber said.
I see the site that Zarm posted lists a lot of the false prophets that's mentioned in the Bible.
LondonGirl the site that Zarm posted talks about Destructive Dispensationalism. We are seeing how destructive it is on the news reports these days and for decades now.
Oh, didn't you know Sufi, The Bible in its certain interpretations is an ultimate navigation book
Just for your information, Sufi admitted before that he is a Christian.
I don't have any problem with that SirDent, I am just kidding around heated on religion forum
And I think we are on the same page with you on the thread topic
You make it sound like such a crime!
I jest, of course.
LOL Sometimes it is fun, especially when new people are in and bring some fresh approach, like it is now
Dent please read above. The part in bold.
By supporting dispensationalism you are supporting the zionist apartheid. And I know you do from other threads.
I just heard a foreign doctor interviewed in Gaza on the BBC. It sounded like he had an Irish accent. He said that 801 of the dead or wounded are children and 45% of the dead or wounded are women and children. He said only 2 of the treated were soldiers.
That is what you are supporting. A genocide.
Yeah Misha I just heard on the news that two UN schools in Gaza were hit today. What's so disgusting about it is that the news said the Israel Defense Force were telling Palestinians to go to the schools as a safe place just before they were hit. The death toll is now up to 635, over a 100 are children with thousands of wounded. The wounded are more than 50% women and children now. The UN said today that there is a full blown humanitarian crisis in Gaza right now. So the Israel authorities (gog and magog) have been lieing as usual all along.
That's what all authorities do Mike. Does not mean we have to believe the lies...
Seems like it Misha. There were hundreds of thousands that protested this around the world on the weekend but it doesn't look like the governments are listening enough to put a stop to it. Some Christians would have to be thinking that we are already under the control of the antichrist. Muslims definitely have to be thinking this, they call the antichrist the dajjal. Sometimes I think the Muslims are closer to the truth than the christian zionist that have allowed and paid for this to happen. I'm definitely with the atheists or anyone else that comes down on the televangelist false prophets like Hagee, Falwell, Bakker. Robertson, Swaggart, LeHaye and their like.
I read on the BBC news site that the Israeli's stated that they were under fire from around those schools. There were actually two attacks at two different schools. I read about the first one early in the day. There were three civilians killed in the first one.
Israel is using white phosphorus in Gaza, a chemical weapon that burns to the bone. It is outlawed by the Geneva Convention and a war crime.
Sid Ryan the head of CUPI, the union that represents the University of Waterloo says universities should not hire professors from Israel if they do not condemn the actions of Israel in Gaza.
For unbiased reporting here's the results of a Google search for Israel is using white phosphorus in Gaza.
Here's a couple of photos to show what it looks like. The images on the news reports here are filled with images like this.
I searched Google. All I could find were blogs and videos. I searched BBC news site. Nothing said about the WP. Youtube videos are easy to make. Anyone could make on with a little work. I am not saying Israel isn't using those weapons, but until there is actual proof, there is really nothing to go on.
Oh, that is classic coming from you sir dent.
Actual proof is needed to believe something .
Let me write that down........
Dent if you click on the link in my post above it will take you to a Google search for "Israel is using white phosphorus in Gaza". It shows that 28,000 web sites come up for that search where I am.
The first one on the list that comes up where I live is Times Online. Times Online is published by a member of the News International Group. News International Limited, 1 Virginia St, London E98 1XY. The top photo above is a photo taken from this Times Online article showing that Israel is using white phosphorus bombs in Gaza. This is a quote from the Times Online article.
In news reports we have seen photos and videos of these same types of bombs dropped on Gaza long before Israeli troops entered Gaza on January 4th. So that means the white phosphorus bombs were not used for a smokescreen or for illumination but as a weapon of war in a civilian area. This is outlawed by the Geneva Convention and is a war crime.
If you go to the other pages on the Google search you will find other news reports besides Times Online.
Israel's oft-repeated defence is that Hamas conceal themselves among civilians, therefore civilian casualties are regretable but the fault is with Hamas. A few points about this:
1. Gaza is one of the most densely populated places on Earth. It's far from clear how to avoid public places.
2. Let's just imagine Hamas built a garrison town and military barracks for themselves, away from everyone else. Concentrated their forces there, and centred all their operations there. What do you think would happen next? Israel would wipe them out. So they don't do that. Who would?
3. Not all the rocket firers have ties to Hamas. Many are just guys who hate being treated like caged animals and are striking back in a futile gesture, but the only one available to them.
Once again, no-one here is supporting Hamas, but condemnation of Israel's criminally disproportionate action is the only humane position to take.
I understand what you're saying PG. Something I keep thinking about is how Israel could have already completely destroyed the Palestinian people if that was what they wanted to do. They have the firepower to do so, but yet they haven't done it.
I also think about how I would react if someone was trying to kill my family. If a neighbor was shooting at me with a 22 caliber rifle from a distance and I had a 30.06, should I lay my rifle down and get one to match my neighbor's?
The rockets that have been launched from Palestine have been aimed toward Ashdod and Ashkelon. It is my understanding that somewhere between the two cities is a refinery and that may be their target. Of course this has not been proven or shown to me. It is speculation as of this moment.
This reverse logic could have been used about Arab countries joining together and defeating Israel if they wanted to. It is really sad that some forget Egypt and Jordan have actually signed peace treaties with Israel, and if it had not been for their efforts things might have been different in the Middle East. War is never right on either side, but to say the Israelis are being unfairly attacked when they are the ones that have provoked this situation is failing to look at the full story. I do not agree with the approach of Hamas, but Israel is not the innocent one in this game.
I didn't say anything about Israel being innocent in this game. I just simply stated the obvious that Israel has the firepower to completely destroy Palestine, if that was what they wanted to do.
I'll check the news site MM and see what it says. That is what I wanted last night when I asked for a news site. All I could find last night were blogs stating the use of Phosphorous by Israel.
If you laid down your 30 ought 6 to try to find a 22, I'd have your head checked out. That just aint common sense. Also, Hamas has made a conscience decision to use schools and churches and hosptials to hide in then the media goes wild saying that Israel is shooting up schools, etc. Where's Paul Harvey's "Rest of the Story" when you need it? Also, just because something is on the internet, does that mean it's true?
It's more like a pea shooter versus a tank, big bomb, a machine gun or all the above!
I haven't heard of any pea shooter deaths recently. There have been only 28 deaths in Israel in the past 8 years due to rockets from Gaza. [For comparative purposes there were 395 gun homicides in Detroit in 2007 thanks to our inability to pass effective gun control laws or enforce the ones we have.] I have searched unsuccessfully for reports of Israeli deaths due to Hamas rockets since Hamas won the election last year. If you can tell us the number feel free. I stick by my analogy which illustrates Israel's grossly disproportionate response. To what amounts to pin pricks from Hamas.
I just heard an interview with a Australian University lecturer on Middle Eastern issues, concerning the current conflict. His description was, in brief, that the (shaky) 6 month cease fire expired. Rockets have been indiscriminantly fired continously since then, (into S. Israel), and Hamas has formally refused to enter into a new one.
My opinion is, that if the (rebel) Palastinians stopped their part in this, Israel would not initiate attacks.
You may be right - if they all agreed to be good little caged animals and polite to their keeper, the keeper might allow them subsistence level provisions through their wholly controlled border crossings.
Palestinians are entitled to normal human dignity too, you know.
Israel TOLD people to take refuge in schools...not Hamas.
Darn right UW. One of the schools in Gaza that was hit was a university. That's why Sid Ryan the head of CUPI, the union that represents the University of Waterloo says universities should not hire professors from Israel if they do not condemn the actions of Israel in Gaza. This should be adopted world wide.
Today the UN said it would take a full 24 hours to alleviate the humanitarian crisis not just 3 hours.
A picture on news here - CNN that I saw several days ago, looked like
phosphorous to me. A still was also shown on many net sites.
Make money, what did you think of the USA's invading Iraq and Afghanistan?
The Iraq war was pre-planned before 911 and the Bush regime started the war under false pretenses. The US used white phosphorus and napalm in Iraq ironically all the while they were saying they were looking for weapons of mass destruction. The entire war is a war crime and the perpetrators should be punished. Some images of white phosphorus.
The world seems to forget why NATO troops followed the US into Afghanistan. It wasn't to take one side of a civil war or to protect a gas pipe line. The Taliban said they would hand over bin Laden if the US could prove he did 911. But the US hasn't even proven that to it's own citizens or the world, let alone the Taliban. Just do a Google search for phony bin Laden tapes or false flag operation.
WP is illegal to use as a weapon in civilian areas. The US used it also in the Iraq war. it is allowed to be used as a smoke screen. There is a loophole in the law that was written.
It shouldn't be used in civilian areas period. < My Opinion.
I was able to read the times news site MM. I also checked BBC again to see what I could find out. Not much about the WP there.
Only 3 countries have used that so called "loophole". Israel against Lebanon and now in Gaza and both the US and England against Iraq.
Dent too bad you couldn't watch this video on American Use of Chemical Weapons in Iraq. You'd be able to determine if the US used white phosphorus in Iraq as a smoke screen or a weapon. It was definitely the later. Most of these images of white phosphorus were carried out by US soldiers.
It is illegal to use as a weapon against civilian targets. Not sure about military targets.
The UK has an army, navy and airforce, England doesn't. The country is the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, and GB consists of England, Wales, and Scotland.
Today on the news reports I heard Obama say he would look into whether the Bush administration committed crimes. He said he would close Guantanamo Bay. He said nobody would be above the law.
A Norwegian doctor in Gaza says it's "An all-out war against the civilian population of Gaza"
Children killed in gaza by shooting them directly in their chest and head
This video has been removed. What might it be? Falsification? In YoyTube one can find videos where you can clearly see how Hamas guys in masks are dragging poor kicking kids to the front line to make a pad from them. Also children TV shows teaching hatred for Israel and America.
I tend to avoid YouTube. Unfortunately, the media always has its own agenda. It is very difficult to find any truth amongst the falsifications
It's good to see there are people out there that are taking care of at least some of the lies that are being told. Thanks for letting us know. I figure people will try to keep on putting it back on. Maybe they'll keep an eye on these kinds of people. Because some people believe everything they see on TV and the Internet and that's dangerous.
Usually, there are lies on both sides. The media is a dangerous and self-serving beast.
True. Here in the US they can even decide who they want to be elected to whatever office and they see that it's done. Very powerful.
I try to watch all sides - aside from the Greek news, I watch the BBC and also Arabic and Israeli 'News in English' channels.
Only one man's observation, but it seems that 10% of idiots seem bent upon throwing bombs at the other side. Meanwhile, on the other side, 10% idiots are also throwing bombs. Meanwhile, the remaining 90% of both populations seem to be pretty bemused by the whole thing.
The 90% are all welcome to come and stay at my house. We will provide beer and a non-alcoholic alternative, and all of our food is kosher/halal. Meanwhile, the idiots can obliterate each other, then we can all go for a nice party over in the Middle-East.
Alshookout...now you condemn "Lying" and just a short while ago you and square head Dent was defending lying...you said it was O.K. to lie...have you changed God's rules again???
You had best put that kid in school...cuz he's going to hate you when he realizes you screwed him out of an education. another one for the welfare system to pick up.
Pylos is a troll Sufi. He like to get his lulz. That is the reason I ignore whatever he/she says.
Cheers for the heads up, SirDent.
However much we all disagree, and however heated the debate, bringing family into it crosses the line.
I agree Sufi. Also name calling helps nothing except to get a person ignored even more.
sufi...my comment to alshook is in response to her previous bragging on home schooling her kid...
Out of order, pylos26. I don't know if you have kids, but I would have said exactly the same if anybody had said things about yours. Just not cricket, Old Boy.
Edit: SirDent - I posted my last comment about trolls before you posted you response.
You are making a strawman now, Pylos. I said no such thing, as well you know. Please stop putting words into my mouth.
My concern was about bringing kids into a debate, not education. That is a different matter.
sufi...you missed the point entirely...the comment I made to allsook was entirely about education...and the need for it in life. You seemed to have chewed off a bigger piece than you can bite...is that cricket enought for you, old chap???
Nope - got the point exactly. You seem to have missed my point, pylos.
I very rarely bite off more than I can chew. I even get my metaphors the right way around.
Absolutely. Just not sporting or fair play.
I don't think that is right. If Israel wanted to, it could wipe out most of the population in Gaza in hours.
Some think the object here is to drive the Palistinians out of Palistine,
the land of the Jews. Trouble is when you steal land, the people you stole it from remind one of the crime, and one hates them for it. Better they not there.
Israel will certainly reap the consequences of its crimes against humanity.
If they are not there, where will they go? We should not think of driving Israel out of Israel. They were there from Jesus Christ's times. They should be made to mend fences with neighbours.
Ezek 36- To ensure that no one misunderstands the nature of this, God states, in verse 10, that He will give all the land of Israel back to the Jews. A check of a map of the original land given to the Twelve Tribes of Israel shows that its boundaries extend northward to most of Lebanon, much of Syria, and Jordan, and some of Iraq. The Jews have partially returned to their land on several occasions, but have never recovered all their land, even today. God reiterated His promise to restore all their land in Amos 9:8-15, and adds this promise: "I will bring back the exiles of My people, Israel...And I will plant them upon their land, and they shall no more be torn up out of their land which I gave them..." God simply cannot state this promise any more plainly. He will bring Israel back to her land. So, when anyone goes against Israel, they go against God Himself.
Just so you don't misunderstand the Word of God allshookup.
This last web site above, which happens to be a Protestant web site also says this,
So you are going against God yourself allshookup.
From the web site that Zarm posted,
http://www.doesgodexist.org/NovDec08/De … alism.html
which is also a Protestant site we see that you have been following one or more of these false prophets.
"Lebanon, much of Syria, and Jordan, and some of Iraq." eh? The land that the zionists covet is even more than that as we see in this map of Greater Israel or Eretz Israel.
Now back to this web site, http://www.scripturecatholic.com/zionism.html we read,
What do you think will happen when the zionists try to steal more of the land they think God gave them?
1 John 2:22 states,
Do the zionists believe that Jesus is the Christ? No they deny that Jesus is the Christ. So the zionists are ... Say it allshookup.
You are helping to bring about THE Antichrist spoken about in 2 Thessalonians 2 allshookup.
In the end God will send two witnesses for the conversion of the Jews to the faith of Jesus Christ.
"If they are not there, where will they go? We should not think of driving Israel out of Israel." So where are the Palistinians suppose to go? How about India. You could make a little state for them there.
any person actually believing that the future of the current skirmish in Palastine is written in some lame book is a damned stupid fool...
"Pea shooters can still kill." Would think would have to be pretty soft in the head.
O.K....Sandra...I'll admit to being a fool if you will too...(giggles)
For Sandra and pylos and whoever else wants to call people names who trust God's Word, only time will tell who those names rightfully belong to. Might want to be careful who you go against. I certainly would not want to fight against God. A fight with God will always end with Him the winner.
Maybe your assumptions are absurd are your eyes are being clouded by believing that anyone who says anything that doesn't exactly chime well with you must be against God.
Sometimes ASU, even when I side with you, you still persist in making such comments that really do not do you and your belief any justice. I am sorry I see it this way but you are always like that, maybe if you admitt that you really just don't know either, we could all just get along.
So since we don't see eye to eye you feel calling me names and supporting those who do is helpful? I can't admit that I don't know what I'm talking about because I put the Scripture there for you to see. It's from the Bible. Which is God's Word. I can't change nor argue with that. No one can.
dearest Allshook...you have certainly got me to a trembling in me knickers...as you spew your "canned goods" of God's wrath at me and me friends. By the way, why did you assume that I was referring to you???
I think the only bad person here is you, for denying your son an education.
"It's from the Bible. Which is God's Word. I can't change nor argue with that. No one can." I can.
"True. Here in the US they can even decide who they want to be elected to whatever office and they see that it's done. Very powerful."
Ah but who pulls their strings?
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