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The forum posts of Ahorseback.........

  1. ahorseback profile image47
    ahorsebackposted 5 years ago

    I know some people  may have questioned the  attitude of hubber Ahorseback and some of the posts I make on  certain forums!  I am Ahorseback and wish to explain my  actions , One of the most irritating things for me in  the forums is with certain posters that condemn  Christianity , conservative thought and the ideology and ethical beliefs in patriotism  .  I will defend the ideals  and beliefs of the underdog!  Thats all. !  It's  simple !     If anyone is offended by my posts , I apologize!  But I will always defend  a believer of any faith.,  Any person who loves and and believes in this country America  and is critical of those who condemn America! There is ....,I believe ,  a difference between free speech and  some of the nonsense that goes on in our forums.

    1. profile image0
      AntonOfTheNorthposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I wonder if it has anything to do with statements like: "Liberal atheists are dopey!" and some such.

      I am liberal, but not an atheist.  I don't consider myself dopey.

      I know many conservative christians who would fit my definition of dopey.  I do not think christians or conservatives are, as a group, dopey.

      Ahorseback, I will defend your right to defend the ideals and beliefs of patriotism, christianity and conservatism.  But truly, with remarks like that, that is not all you are doing.  You are passing the judgement of 'dope' onto people you don't know because you think they belong to a certain social/cultural/philsophical group.  You might be right about the group, but what do you know about their intelligence?  All you know are some words on a computer screen.

      For every poster that supports christianity, there is one who will condemn it, just as it should be.  The same with conservatism and patriotism.

      No matter what 'position' you support you'll find someone who doesn't.

      If you want to be treated well in conversation, assume everyone you talk to is just as smart as you are, has just as many rights, and who's personal experience is just as valid for them as yours is to you.

      Some words typed on a screen is not enough information to call you by any other name than 'ahorseback'.  If I disagree with you, I'll ask you why you believe what you do.  I'll refute if I disagree.

      I will not call you dopey, (or bashful, or sleepy)  I don't know you well enough.

      I will challenge your views on conservative thought, as there is much in the philosophy I disagree with. 

      I will not call you an idiot for believing something that to me is idiotic.  I've never been where you are.

      It behooves us to understand, not judge.

      Just my opinion

      cheers

      1. mega1 profile image78
        mega1posted 5 years ago in reply to this

        hear! hear!

    2. Randy Godwin profile image92
      Randy Godwinposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Don't apologize!  You help the liberal side much more with your posts than we could ever do ourselves!  Please don't stop!  smile

      1. Pcunix profile image87
        Pcunixposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        +1 and then some.  We could only wish for more.  Though we are getting more here smile

        1. The Suburban Poet profile image81
          The Suburban Poetposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Yeah and comments like saying people who wave the flag are small-minded is why people like George Bush get elected. You do the same favor for the right that you think Ahorseback is doing for the left... it's actually comical that you said what you said here...

          1. Pcunix profile image87
            Pcunixposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            People who wave the flag are small minded.  Get over it.

            1. The Suburban Poet profile image81
              The Suburban Poetposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              I wrote something for you... You should be honored... you have provoked me with your arrogance:

              A Man Without A God Or A Flag

              You tell us what you believe before you even say hello
              You let your opinions roar like a lion eating Christians
              You say people who wave the flag have really small minds
              You say patriotism and religion is for scoundrels and magicians

              You don’t like Christmas because of all the crosses and the saints
              You take a lot of pride when you say season greetings or happy holidays
              But you don’t really mean it and we all know the reason why
              Hatred rules your mind so you get mad like you do on Sundays

              You can’t prove there is no God  but you demand proof of his existence
              Your intellect laughs at people of faith but you believe a bomb created the sky
              A man without a God or a flag only worships his own mind
              If you don’t agree with him he’ll censor you and let freedom die

              He’s ready to tear you apart because it’s what his life is about
              He’ll deny what it is that he does but that’s because he lives a lie
              He says he only tells the truth and if it hurts then that’s just too bad
              But the flag he hates knows how much blood it takes to make it fly

              It's just a rant.... it doesn't even reflect what I believe or don't believe... but it is intended for you personally because you are so brave talking loudly about patriotism in a country where people DIED so you could act this way. You are probably one of the most offensive people I've ever met on the internet. And that's saying a lot.... Nobody is impressed with your attitude except yourself... oh I'm sure there are others but i know your type; you believe you are an evolved human being who is smarter than others. But you haven't done anything but say controversial things. Anyone can do that. It doesn't make you an elite.... All it makes you is an extremist. You talk a good game but everyone knows that they cannot count on you. Much of the "flag-waving" as you say is about respect. You obviously respect nothing but your own mind. Why don't you fly up to DC sometime, walking into Arlington National Cemetary and hold your sign up with the exact words that you just so bravely posted.

              1. Randy Godwin profile image92
                Randy Godwinposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                After reading your "stuff" in this last post (I refuse to call it poetry) I think I've found your problem, SubPoet.  You are confusing "offensive" in the football sense with "offensive" in the poetry sense.  lol

                1. The Suburban Poet profile image81
                  The Suburban Poetposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  I find it intereseting that you feel the need to "refuse" to call it poetry. Nobody is asking you to call it anything. Actually I heard "Positively 4th Street" the other night and wrote it out in that manner. So it's an "offensive" song as intended. Obviously I've gotten under your skin so now you wish to insult my writing as opposed to the content. You clearly believe all your hubs are spot-on but I would never insult them. But arrogant people such as yourself wish to bury people and their work when it opposes your view because you are emotionally immature. Keep going... keep putting it down. It only confirms your instability when it comes to being challenged.

                  1. Randy Godwin profile image92
                    Randy Godwinposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    I didn't realize I was being challenged by you, Subpoet.  And neither do I think my hubs are "spot on".  But then, I wouldn't keep referring others to my articles in these threads and then post one of them here on the forums either. 

                    So why did you feel it was necessary to post your response in verse rather than in plain words like everyone else?  I like creative writing and occasionally do a bit here, but I would never try and force it on others, especially in these forums.  What's your excuse?  yikes

              2. Pcunix profile image87
                Pcunixposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Yes, I am an evolved human being and much smarter than many.

                Get over it.  Be offended if you must.  If you made the effort to  understand what I actually have to say on these subjects, we might have an intelligent conversation.   As you choose not to, I have nothing more to say here.

                1. The Suburban Poet profile image81
                  The Suburban Poetposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Omigod! Do you really walk around talking like this? You are mental man... I haven't run into too many ego problems like this before.... incredible....

                  1. Pcunix profile image87
                    Pcunixposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Thank you for your comments and your "poem".  I hope it doesn't get deleted by an administrator, as I intend to use your "thoughts" as the basis for an intelligent article about the misconceptions of atheism.

                  2. MelissaBarrett profile image61
                    MelissaBarrettposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Yes, he walks around claiming to be intelligent and evolved...And you write poems about him...

                    Er...

                    Yeah.

                    Just a note on Patriotism though...  I spent the better part of my childhood being awoken by reveille and being put to sleep to taps.  I still cry over the star-spangled banner.  I still put my hand over my heart when the pledge of allegiance is said.  I learned to salute before I learned to walk...

                    That being said, I am a proud liberal and I am damn tired of people telling me that I hate my country because I can't stand to see it ran by big businesses.  I am damn tired of being told that if I believe that we shouldn't have been in the middle east that I must hate the troops.  And I am really damn tired of watching bigots and zealots wrap themselves in the American Flag and claim that it is some sort of banner for their cause only.

                    I also am tired of Christians whining that everyone must hate them and be trying to oppress them because we won't let THEM take over the country.  America's schools are not your training grounds, our constitution is not a tool of conversion, and our troops are not there to spread your bloody religion by force.  If you try to use our country like that, don't bother to wave the American Flag... you might as well go ahead and wipe your ass on it because THATS how much respect you are giving it anyway.

              3. A Troubled Man profile image60
                A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                lol Mr.Pot, meet Mr. Kettle.

              4. Pcunix profile image87
                Pcunixposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                I do like Xmas.  Actually, I often say "Merry Xmas".  I've explained why many times.



                Angry on Sundays?  Why? 



                Actually, I can prove there are no gods.  Not to your satisfaction, but that's a given.



                Nope.  I don't have any problem with faith.  I think religion is a good thing for many people.



                Nope again.  I don't worship anything.   Especially not intellect.



                Not at all.  I will actively defend your right to have your religion and teach it to your children.  I'd take up arms to defend that right for you.



                I've explained my feelings about patriotism at length in several places.  There's no "flag hatred" in any of it.

                Also - I have deep regard and honor for our troops.  We donate regularly to Veterans organizations for that reason.

                1. Pcunix profile image87
                  Pcunixposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  I just realized that for those who have not learned to switch their Forum view to Chronological, replies in which a previous comment is broken apart to facilitate understanding actually appear without the quotes and thus look like random babbling  as seen here (if you are in C-view) smile

                  This HP forum is really a bad, bad piece of software..

              5. Josak profile image59
                Josakposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                @ Suburban poet, you obviously have no idea what Atheists believe you obviously have no idea what atheists are like you obviously have no idea how science works (see you believe the sky was created by a bang) I think you have given Pcunix eneough evidence to come to the conclusion that he is a better informed person than you.

                1. The Suburban Poet profile image81
                  The Suburban Poetposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  I've read enough to know that atheists, regardless of what they believe, are arrogant. That's all that I pick up from them... I don't really care what they truly believe. But they always show up in force and become quite aggressive in telling everyone who the idiots are and who the enlightened ones are. It's a common pattern and in fact it's incredible how alike they all are in this regard. And if you think that one line in a song about a bang represents what I know or don't know then you are being quite shallow and in fact you are probably just grasping at the little straw that I gave you. It happened to work in the song as a lyric....

                  1. A Troubled Man profile image60
                    A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    That's a very telling statement, not about atheists, but about yourself.



                    No, the "idiots" show themselves quite visibly, clearly and entirely on their own.

    3. A Troubled Man profile image60
      A Troubled Manposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      lol Yes, defend the Titanic from sinking, too.

  2. mega1 profile image78
    mega1posted 5 years ago

    you sound upset!  and you certainly have the right to exercise your freedom of speech -  I can't agree with you and find it rather unbelievable that people still tend to link religion (esp. Christianity) and patriotism or loyalty to this country!  It just doesn't compute in my brain!  You can be religious and not care a damn about your country and vice versa.  The one thing doesn't mean the other.  Likewise, just because you are religious (esp. Christian) doesn't mean that you value your country any more than anyone else, even atheists!  So I really wish people would stop trying to shove it all down my throat like a package that must be taken in combination.  And patriotism, loyalty, etc. doesn't have one thing to do with how conservative you are!  Like conservatives have a monopoly on love of country!  Let's get real!

  3. mega1 profile image78
    mega1posted 5 years ago

    Oh, and definitely not all Christians are conservatives, so let's stop lumping all these things together!  I don't even know what "God bless America" means -  does it mean that God is on OUR SIDE?  what a bunch of trash THAT is!

    1. The Suburban Poet profile image81
      The Suburban Poetposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      It doesn't mean that God is on our side. It means just what it say's: God Bless America. It is asking God to bless America. Just like people ask God to bless their food.

  4. Perspycacious profile image74
    Perspycaciousposted 5 years ago

    I always understood it to mean that we ask God's blessing on America, especially on the presrvation of our nation.

    1. mega1 profile image78
      mega1posted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Yes, I suppose that was the original intention - but so often it is said with a challenging attitude - like "God love us best! therefore, we're right to kill your civilians because they don't worship the way we do!"

  5. MelissaBarrett profile image61
    MelissaBarrettposted 5 years ago

    I proclaim this thread unworthy of popcorn.  Some train wrecks are entertaining but some are just too sad to get any popcorn value at all from.

    1. Hollie Thomas profile image60
      Hollie Thomasposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      +1. have always refused  to fuel egos.

  6. ahorseback profile image47
    ahorsebackposted 5 years ago

    I hear this one thing all the time on forums  ," You who try to stuff religion down my throat"........Really ! Most times this comes during a rant about how one has single handedly dissproved everything about Chrisianity!  Mega ! , upset !? Not me ....I would just like someone to explain and defend atheism without first injecting the condemnation of Christianity!   Every time I hear this statement I think ...well someones breaking down your door with a bible, get real!

    1. mega1 profile image78
      mega1posted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I'm not condemning anything.  There just is no correlation between the things you talk about - said as if they automatically go hand in hand.  Nobody needs to justify their belief or non-belief to me.  Just don't imply that if I'm not Christian, I'm not patriotic and if I'm not conservative I must not be Christian or patriotic!  If you eliminated such proclamations as you made at the beginning of this thread, there would be practically no "discussion" of religion or politics in these forums!  which would suit me just fine!

    2. Marisa Wright profile image94
      Marisa Wrightposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Atheists don't disprove anything about Christianity.   All they do is point out the lack of proof.

    3. Ralph Deeds profile image70
      Ralph Deedsposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      There are quite a few significantly different versions of Christianity. I haven't seen any blanket condemnations of Christianity.

  7. ahorseback profile image47
    ahorsebackposted 5 years ago

    Are You telling me that  liberally inteelectual  atheists really aren't acting  dopey in these forums !......?Hmmmm

    1. mega1 profile image78
      mega1posted 5 years ago in reply to this

      oh balogney!

    2. profile image0
      AntonOfTheNorthposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      dopey people act dopey in these forums.

      Whether they are liberal atheists or conservative christians doesn't seem to have any impact on their dopeynessness.

      cheers

  8. ahorseback profile image47
    ahorsebackposted 5 years ago

    And would that be Balogny as in , wheres the beef?

    1. mega1 profile image78
      mega1posted 5 years ago in reply to this

      that balogney would be as in - there is nothing dopier that starting an entire thread to justify your own personal opinions or non-opinions  - except MAYBE it is even dopier to get involved and waste my time commenting on such a thread!  or even trying to engage in a discussion in such a thread!  Dopes all!

  9. always exploring profile image83
    always exploringposted 5 years ago

    Has anyone ever looked up the meaning of liberal? ( Webser's New World Dictionary ) 1- Giving freely; generous
                 2-Giving more than enough, or might be expected
                 3-Open to new ideas; Broad-minded; Tolerant
                 4-Broad in range; Not limited in education
                 5-In favor of reform or progress in politics, religion, etc.

    Is this not what God teaches. I am proud to be a Liberal...

    1. profile image0
      Longhunterposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      AE,

      Politically, Liberal means:

      1) Giving freely other people's money; generous with all but their own.

      2) Giving more than enough, or might be expected as long as it belongs to someone else.

      3) Open to new ideas; Broad-minded; Tolerant of everything only they believe in and anyone that agrees with them alone.

      4)  Broad in range; Not limited in education but have little or no common sense; tend to be wet from standing in the rain a lot.

      5) 5-In favor of reform or progress in politics, religion, etc. as long as it agrees 100% to their ideology of Socialism.

      Webster's Definition of Conservatism:
      1) a political philosophy based on tradition and social stability, stressing
          established institutions, and preferring gradual development to abrupt
          change;

      2) specifically:
          A)  such a philosophy calling for lower taxes,
          B)  limited government regulation of business and investing,
          C)  a strong national defense, and
          D)  individual financial responsibility for personal needs (as retirement
                income or health-care coverage)

      1. profile image0
        AntonOfTheNorthposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Sorry Longhunter,  your bias is showing.

        I could do the same:

        A political philsophy based on tradition (also known as old, outmoded, obsolete practices) and social stability (everyone conform), being more important than individual rights and freedoms, stressing established institutions, (particularly if they are wealthy, capitalistic and right leaning ones), as more worthy of respect than the people they were designed to serve, and preferring gradual development (also known as foot dragging obstructionism) to abrupt change.  (or any change for that matter).

        What you have offered is Liberal as defined by an intolerant individual who also happens to be a conservative.

        I have no problem with lower taxes.

        Limited government regulation would be great, if so many didn't run their lives based on greed.  The whole economic meltdown was a direct result of poorly regulated financial insitutions meeting the greed of those that ran them.

        A strong national defense is frequently used for offense.  Every military empire in history has fallen into that trap.  America is in danger of doing the same. (some might argue that it already has)

        Individual financial responsibility is only possible if you have money or access to it.  A lot of very good people lost their jobs and homes during the crash.  Just write them off?  Or help them?

        Given the choice between a strong national defense and providing health care, my priority would be health care.

        In my experience, many conservatives would rather pay for punishment than prevention, would rather judge who is worthy of assistance than assume everyone is and would rather require everyone to be equal than help them to be so.  That said, I also know many conservatives who would give until it hurt, and many liberals who are stingy.

        I don't deny medical treatment to a sick person just because most are well.  I don't treat everyone because one person is sick.  I treat each person according to their needs.  Some need more than I do.  Some need less. 

        It must be hard to be so afraid of change that one feels it necessary to ridicule someone merely because they have a different philosphy.

        cheers

        1. profile image0
          Longhunterposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          "What you have offered is Liberal as defined by an intolerant individual who also happens to be a conservative."

          I'm just as tolerant as the next guy, Anton. I can't help if you have a problem with honesty.

          I have no problem with lower taxes.

          Let me guess, except on the rich.

          Limited government regulation would be great, if so many didn't run their lives based on greed.

          I take it you've never owned a business. What you perceive as greed is actually a business owner trying to turn a profit. Why else would a person be in business?

          A strong national defense is frequently used for offense.  Every military empire in history has fallen into that trap. America is in danger of doing the same.

          We learned a hard lesson on 9-11-01. If we need to go on the offensive to stop another one, by all means, lets do it.

          At the rate Obama is going, the next president will have to rebuild the military just as Reagan had to do after Carter but, then again, Obama is nothing but Carter on some serious steroids.

          Individual financial responsibility is only possible if you have money or access to it. A lot of very good people lost their jobs and homes during the crash.  Just write them off?  Or help them?

          Obama has certainly written them off but anything to get the unemployment numbers down. Right? After all, this is an election year.

          It's simple, Anton, you want more jobs, permanently cut the taxes on businesses. You want more consumer spending, cut income taxes thus giving them more to spend.

          (Conservatives) would rather judge who is worthy of assistance than assume everyone is...

          I don't have a problem helping those who really need it with a hand UP, not a handout. A lot of people really need help but there's a lot of them that are just lazy as hell. Some of them have been taught to be so after watching generation after generation be just as lazy.

          Part of the problem is Liberals don't understand the American Dream isn't something just handed out by some government official. It's something you have to work hard to obtain and keep. Some are lazy and would prefer to take a handout and live on the public dole rather than get a job and earn what they get.

          To me it's very simple. Those that are able to work and want a welfare check, they have to work for it. And, if they're on welfare, make drug testing mandatory. No test, no check. Drugs found, no check. Don't like it, do something about getting off welfare.

          Also, limit what can be bought with EBT cards. If a EBT recipient doesn't like the limitations, get a job and buy the good stuff with your own money.

          I don't deny medical treatment to a sick person just because most are well.

          Come on, Anton, no one is denied treatment in the U.S. now. This argument doesn't work.

          It must be hard to be so afraid of change that one feels it necessary to ridicule someone merely because they have a different philosphy.

          I'm not afraid of change at all. I've had a lot in my own life after a divorce and being single for 8 years then over the last 3 years buying a house, getting remarried, and adopting my wife's son. I know all about change.

          The change I won't sit back and watch is my country being changed to Socialism and I honestly couldn't care less if others don't like that.

          Also, if someone wants this country to be changed into a Socialist state then, yes, they can expect and will get my ridicule and more. I honestly couldn't care less if they don't like that, either.

          Have a good day.

          1. profile image0
            AntonOfTheNorthposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            "I'm just as tolerant as the next guy, Anton."

            Unless the next guy is a socialist?  If you are tolerant, it doesn't come across so.

            "I can't help if you have a problem with honesty."

            I have no problem with honesty.  I have a problem with opinion trumped out as truth.  Your opinion is not more true simply because it is yours.  I accept you are honestly sharing your opinion.  I simply disagree with it.

            "Let me guess, except on the rich."

            Wrong guess.  I have no problem with the rich getting a tax break either.  This you would know if you asked me rather than assign your belief to me.

            "I take it you've never owned a business."

            Again wrong.  Again, ask me.  Talk to me.  Not the political group you think I belong to.

            "What you perceive as greed is actually a business owner trying to turn a profit. "

            Third time.  What I perceive as greed is a bank getting bailed out of its own stupidity by government money while still paying massive amounts of money to the ceo.  A bank declaring a billion dollar profit the same year it had 100's of millions in taxpayer money strikes me as something any conservative should complain about.

            What I perceive as greed is shortcuts on an offshore drilling platform leading to a massive environmental disaster.  Making more money at all costs is almost the text book definition of greed, no?

            I have no problem with an organization wanting to earn a profit.   Provided that isn't more important than the very people who are earning it for them.

            "We learned a hard lesson on 9-11-01. If we need to go on the offensive to stop another one, by all means, lets do it."

            Yes, The British Empire, the Persian Empire, the Roman Empire, Napoleon, Alexander the Great, they all thought that way.

            Persia is now Iraq, the Roman Empire is now Italy, The British Empire is now the Commonwealth, Napolean's Empire is 'socialist ' France, and Alexander the Great's empire lasted five minutes.  Great models to emulate, no?

            The lesson of 9-11 was much deeper than the actions the US government took as a result.

            "Obama has certainly written them off but anything to get the unemployment numbers down. Right? After all, this is an election year."

            And here I agree with you.  Unemployment is still a major problem with no solution showing an effect.  The government, no matter who's in charge, has been completely ineffective on that score.

            "It's simple, Anton, you want more jobs, permanently cut the taxes on businesses. "

            It's not that simple, Longhunter, or the unemployment rate in my country would not have increased right after tax cuts were introduced.  I don't disagree that decreasing the tax burden would help businesses hire more staff, but there is no incentive for them to do so when they can point to a bottom line increase for their shareholders without a single change on their own.  Along with tax cuts there needs to be something else, otherwise the benefit does not trickle down.

            "a lot of them that are just lazy as hell." 
            There are many lazy people out there.  I know just as many lazy conservatives as lazy liberals.  No matter what stripe you wear, very few people think they are lazy.  Usually other people tar one with that brush.  Its a judgement, not a feature.

            Those that can work should work.  No argument there from me.

            An addict cannot work.  An addict is damaged.  An addict has the same problem that someone who is sick or disabled has.  The pathology is very well mapped.  Yes I have a serious moral problem with drugs, but it is the entrpreneurs selling them that I have the problem with.  Addicts are sick.  They need to be treated.  Punishing them is not the solution.  Treating them is.  The same way I treat someone who has burned their lungs out by smoking, or acquired diabetes by overeating.

            The medical treatment line was a metaphore, not a comment on the American medical system.  I don't determine what aid to give one person based on an average of need.  I determine aid based on an observed actual need.  This means talking to the person, not lumping them in to a category of liberal, conservative, black, white, American, Canadian, rich, poor. 

            I'm not sure why Socialism troubles you so.  Clearly you think it is a ridiculous concept.  As we've never actually seen a working example of it anywhere (imperial China and the former Soviet Union were hardly socialist, other than in name)

            My only real issue is that (and both sides do this) the rhetoric that Liberals are lazy and Conservatives are greedy is just flat wrong.   You've made a couple of decisions about me in your response that simply aren't true and they are based on your notion that liberals are a certain way.

            That's the problem with what you call your 'honesty'.  It simply isn't true.

            And the whole debate becomes about the lies we tell ourselves to make us feel better, rather than rolling up our sleeves and doing the work involved in understanding the other side.

            If you don't like laziness, I would suggest putting the work in here too.  It is much more work to get to know someone than simply tar them with what you think they are.

            just a suggestion.  Thanks for responding.  I appreciate your clarifications.

            cheers

            1. profile image0
              Longhunterposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Unless the next guy is a socialist?

              I don't care if they're a Socialist as long as they don't try changing our government and way of life. Obama is a prime example of one that is.

              I have no problem with honesty.  I have a problem with opinion trumped out as truth.  Your opinion is not more true simply because it is yours.  I accept you are honestly sharing your opinion.  I simply disagree with it.

              Fair enough.

              The government, no matter who's in charge, has been completely ineffective on that score.

              I think we can agree the government isn't effective in doing anything except defense. Unfortunately, Obama is about to screw that up as well.

              What I perceive as greed is a bank getting bailed out of its own stupidity by government money while still paying massive amounts of money to the ceo.  A bank declaring a billion dollar profit the same year it had 100's of millions in taxpayer money strikes me as something any conservative should complain about.

              Agreed. In the long run, we'd been better off to just let them go under. That would include the banks, car companies, etc.

              I know just as many lazy conservatives as lazy liberals.

              As do I.

              I determine aid based on an observed actual need.  This means talking to the person, not lumping them in to a category of liberal, conservative, black, white, American, Canadian, rich, poor.

              I certainly don't think we should lump needs together based on anything. It should be a case by case basis. But those that can work but need help should be put to work doing something for those that are helping - the taxpayer - even if it's cleaning road sides.

              You've made a couple of decisions about me in your response that simply aren't true and they are based on your notion that liberals are a certain way.

              And I have people on here assume I'm against abortion or gays simply because I'm a Christian Conservative. They are wrong in those assumptions as I have been in some of mine.

              I've stated my opinion on both on HP before so I won't go into it again but it would probably surprise a few people.

              As for assuming too much, it's a two-way street. I've done it as well as others. Thing is, if we're going to get out of this morass we're in, we're going to have to work together.

              I'm a pretty easy going guy but all I'm seeing from the 'other side' is 'it's my way or the highway.' That I'll never agree to any more than I expect everyone to go along with all my ideas. Hell, there would be no fun in that.

              1. profile image0
                AntonOfTheNorthposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Thanks for the response.  I always find a little delving leads to more in common than not.

                cheers

  10. Denise Handlon profile image85
    Denise Handlonposted 5 years ago

    I agree--much too much nonsense in the forums at times...   Thanks for sharing.

  11. tlmcgaa70 profile image65
    tlmcgaa70posted 5 years ago

    Personally i agree with you AHorseBack. or mostly anyways.

    One of the most irritating things for me in  the forums is with certain posters that condemn  Christianity , conservative thought and the ideology and ethical beliefs in patriotism  .  I will defend the ideals  and beliefs of the underdog!  Thats all. !  It's  simple !     If anyone is offended by my posts , I apologize!  But I will always defend  a believer of any faith.,  Any person who loves and and believes in this country America  and is critical of those who condemn America! There is ....,I believe ,  a difference between free speech and  some of the nonsense that goes on in our forums.

    i cant see what everyone is bellyaching about on this thread. nowhere do i read that you are forcing everyone to believe as you do...instead i read that these are your beliefs and you will defend them such as they are. for my part, it doesnt irritate me that others have different spiritual/religious beliefs than i do...it irritates me to hear people cry about having it shoved down their throat...if you want to get technical...i hate having the hate towards that GOD shoved down my throat. we are all of us free to read or not to read the forums. and free to leave a topic we find offensive. but instead of doing that people would rather get in there and put in their two cents worth, usually condemning others instead of giving everyone the right to their own thoughts and opinions. i dont understand why people cant simply discuss a topic, whatever it might be, without fighting over it as if they were the only ones right. those who believe in GOD are right. GOD exists for them and there is no making them believe differently. those who do not believe in GOD are also right...for them. they cant see HIM and so HE does not exist. why cant adults talk like adults instead of five year olds, throwing out insults like it was candy.
    you, AHorseBack, have the right to be who you want to be (so long as it doesnt bring harm to another) and to believe what you want to believe...and defend it if you feel the need to. we all have those same rights. those rights are daily trampled here in the forums. if others get offended by what you post or comment on, then they can go read posts or topics that agree with their ideals and beliefs. people need to grow up and stop thinking they alone are right in everything.

  12. ahorseback profile image47
    ahorsebackposted 5 years ago

    So many people get caught up in the "Rights" of our constitution , free speech is just one of them ! But few realize and act out their rights under the meaning of the priviledge that it is. We have the right to voice our opinion and the responsibility to act responsible about it. Crying fire in the theatre isn't free speech. Nor is the condemnation of Christianity in order  to validate  your atheisic  views. !  Such immaturity prevails constantly in forums  and time after time simply reflects the close-mindedness of supposed open minded people.  Show me an atheist that respects  others who do believe .........and I'll show you It isn't  here on the hub forums.  Surprisingly ....its always the same ones!

    1. Ralph Deeds profile image70
      Ralph Deedsposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Condemnation of Christianity most certainly is covered by the First Amendment, as is condemnation of any other religion or atheism, as you frequently do, for that matter.

  13. ahorseback profile image47
    ahorsebackposted 5 years ago

    Ralph , Why is it then the same ones in general here alway set thier sights on western religions , namely christianity.....I for one would love to see these same people attack Islam or Buddism,  too be fair you must admit this is true, you sir,  witness it  here alot!..... Seems to me theres a bit of a slant to that....however ,I like pointing out that it happens just this way ,almost always ! Usually a question like "  Why do you continue to stuff God down my throat"  , giving the impression that the god police are knocking down your a doors  with a battering ram while  you quiver in the basement holding onto your screeming children!  Just asking !

    1. Josak profile image59
      Josakposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      OK here goes, @ ahorseback: I dislike religion because it is illogical and because it makes a wide rang of claims with no way of proving them, I think Christians Jews and Muslims and Hindus etc have all committed terrible crimes for their beliefs and that the believers in all these religions have also suffered for their misplaced belief.
      Furthermore you should be very careful before you quote the much vaunted "Fire in a crowded theater line" the judge who coined it was sentencing the Jewish men to jail for writing a pamphlet arguing against America becoming involved in WWI which certainly should have been protected under the 1st.
      Free speech is not just your right to speak but also your right to listen otherwise the speech is impotent, exercise your right to listen and keep an open mind instead of this closed shell you have now.

    2. Randy Godwin profile image92
      Randy Godwinposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      When I have to deal with self righteous members of any other cult I will give them the same respect I give your cult.  Or that you give their cult, for that matter.  You doubtless know how much that is, too.

  14. ahorseback profile image47
    ahorsebackposted 5 years ago

    Cult ......Proof ....Guilty , not guilty....I just spent a few days in jury duty ,part of that as a foreman....Its amazing to me how interpretation of facts, of testimony , of written directions or directives are so diverse, no different than here .......all really just useless banter! As usual the same names show up here . Randy ,is there a difference between "self righteous cult members" and proud christians  ,  or in those who are self righteously  faithful of non -belief   And atheists ?! At least most faithful people carry themselves with respect for others. Not much seen among the usual forum members here !

    1. Randy Godwin profile image92
      Randy Godwinposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Is there a difference between believing in the supernatural and reality?  Of course.  And respect is in the eye of the beholder, Ahorse.  I respect those who deal in facts more than those preferring fantasy.  Sorry, but it's not just me.

      1. ahorseback profile image47
        ahorsebackposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Don't be "Sorry", be open to others interpretations of there own position on faith driven beliefs.  To them! .....faith is not fantasy!  It blows my mind that non-believers just can't let it Be ! Oh and respect is respect.....period.

      2. The Suburban Poet profile image81
        The Suburban Poetposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Can you respect the man who said these things or was he a peddler of fantasy too?

        "From every mountainside, let freedom ring. When we let freedom ring, when we let it ring from every village and every hamlet, from every state and every city, we will be able to speed up that day when all of God's children, black men and white men, Jews and Gentiles, Protestants and Catholics, will be able to join hands and sing in the words of the old Negro spiritual, 'Free at last! Free at last! Thank God Almighty, we are free at last!'"

        "I have decided to love. If you are seeking the highest good, I think you can find it through love. And the beautiful thing is that we are moving against wrong when we do it, because John was right, God is love. He who hates does not know God, but he who has love has the key that unlocks the door to the meaning of ultimate reality."

        "Like anybody, I would like to live a long life. Longevity has its place. But I'm not concerned about that now. I just want to do God's will. And He's allowed me to go up to the mountain. And I've looked over. And I've seen the promised land. I may not get there with you. But I want you to know tonight, that we, as a people will get to the promised land."

        1. Pcunix profile image87
          Pcunixposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Take out the religious stuff and it's fine.

          None of it needs any gods.  I understand that those of you who need this like it.  That's fine.  It isn't needed, though and it can turn off the rest of us when applied too thickly.

          1. The Suburban Poet profile image81
            The Suburban Poetposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            But he did put those references in... he needed to for some reason. I don't know if he believed it literally or if he suffered so much that he wanted there to be a God who could make his will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven. MLK was under duress when he said these things but he said them and I am bringing it here to understand how the arrogance of proclaimed atheist bury ALL who invoke God's name. I do it to make a point and let me tell you NONE of you can hold a candle to a man like MLK. And neither can I. I am just someone out here like you but the difference is that I have no certainty about any of this...

            As for those who lay it on thick; I agree with you... I cannot stomach a prayer everytime someone breathes and I've been around those types of zealots. 'They know not what they do." They repel people from God... It may be that you and I agree about many things but I do not wish to insult good people who have a quiet belief in a God... I know so many Christians who do good work in life... giving money and time to organizations like Meals on Wheels or Habitat for Humanity. It is very difficult for me to be so above them when I see what they do... yet the atheists can only ridicule and heap hate upon them... well re-read what MLK said about love up there.... was he wrong?

            Quien sabes....

            1. Pcunix profile image87
              Pcunixposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Ridiculous statements invite ridicule.

              There was nothing to ridicule there, I simply stated that the religious stuff was not necessary.

              I'm sorry that it bothers you that I have certainty.

  15. Randy Godwin profile image92
    Randy Godwinposted 5 years ago

    Cons are easily entertained.  Watch this!

    Nancy Pelosi for President!

  16. sen.sush23 profile image60
    sen.sush23posted 5 years ago

    Josak, I cannot speak about other religions, but as I am born a Hindu, I can tell you and the others that Hinduism is not a religion. It is simply a way of life.
    There are cults and beliefs and religious practices in Hinduism that are off-shoots of different time and people. Hindu denotes the early Dravidian people as also the Aryan people. It fathered Buddhism, Jainism, the much later Sikhism and so many more.  You cannot become a Hindu by any process, no priest can get you there, you just live it. Yes, but Hinduism has seen its share of orthodoxy and misinterpretation, as the other religions, and it is not yet a matter of the past, which is not something to be proud of.

    Ahorseback, faith is a very private word. Most communes between God and a believer, in whichever religion, should be on a personal level. It is neither to be expostulated nor decried. If you have a God and a belief you are lucky, you must have a sense of direction and see a reason to every puzzle in life. But if someone cannot see the same, if he or she would rather fend for himself with the aid of only science, and call themselves ‘atheist’ – since that word is there in the dictionary, and its not put down as blasphemous or slang, why treat them like dirt?

    This forum is your expression of opinion or thought, and you are welcome to it. But as you did not write this in a Hub, but as a forum, it seemed you invited all comments. I hope you are open to mine.

  17. ahorseback profile image47
    ahorsebackposted 5 years ago

    SenSush...., One thing that I am is accepting of others , and in a big way too. First I am of no particular religion, nor do I practice a denomination. I am simply spiritually engaged in my life. I believe in a higher power, yes ! Even a god ! And being so , neither an atheist nor a denominal faitholder but simply spiritual I consider myself open minded and fair at the same time , fair in acceptance of the Baptist ,and of the non-believer as well! BUT what gets under my skin is when those of supposed upper intellect , of proclaimed "scientificly based -proof seekers " , step on the toes of the simple Christian , And I know !, thats the latest politically correct position of liberal intellectuals today. That theres someting entirely different than simply questioning ones belief! As I have stated a couple dozen times in forums......To justify an atheistic belief -by making such statements as 'stuffing Christianity down my throat "  is simply stupid and closed minded. I get into a confrontational mood when I see bullying done by supposed "free speech "advocates. No doult bringing many of a more Christian heart than mine to tears. I only shake my head at the immaturity of supposed open minded intellectuals! I will always accept the Hindu-the Muslim, Budist or any faith at all. But I will also always call out the hypocrits ! There are far too many here.   America , was founded partially based upon  the same persecution of Christianity a couple hundred years ago!  And yet  the same bullying mentality exists here on forums. I would defend the Muslim as well as the hindu too against this behavior! However , it isn't P.C. to condemn those beliefs . it seems only Christianity that falls beneath the wheels of forum bullies!

    1. Josak profile image59
      Josakposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      All religions are flawed, deeply flawed, Islam moves people to kill others for minor infractions, to opress women and condemn homosexuality, Buddhism often leads to extreme self denial (even though Buddha warned against it) many cults of Buddhism refuse food or water to the point of death in the search for elightenment. Christians opress other religions and use their faith to diminish the fair rights of Homosexuals and women and their twisted morality is as you put it shoved down my throat since our legal system is based on it. I could go on for every religion are you satisfied? I dislike them all if you want to call me a forum bully then atleast admit that its not just christianity I oppose!

      1. ahorseback profile image47
        ahorsebackposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        And yu sure sound a bit flawed yourself ,Congratulations.

        1. Josak profile image59
          Josakposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Ofcourse I am flawed everyone is, way to answer my point though tongue

  18. sunforged profile image69
    sunforgedposted 5 years ago

    It used to be more basic and more effective! Was arranged by categories, you weren't forced to see all the nonsense. Also Chrono was the default. I dont understand why they didnt respond to the general distaste of the change by the users.

    Who knows where this post will appear as Im doing it from the feed

    babble babble

  19. Nellieanna profile image84
    Nellieannaposted 5 years ago

    I was raised to respect the beliefs and opinions of others, whether or not I agree with them or with all they espouse.

  20. ahorseback profile image47
    ahorsebackposted 5 years ago

    Nellieanna , And there! is the answer to all this hubbub! It seems some people just cant handle that ,Nellieanna !  Could these forums use a lesson or two from you!....:-} As I could as well ,no doult!

  21. donotfear profile image91
    donotfearposted 5 years ago

    Here is another hornet's nest stirred up.


    http://www.hampshire-waspcontrol.co.uk/images/swarmof-bees3.png



    I decided long ago that if one doesn't like criticism and doesn't want to be attacked, then don't comment.

    1. The Suburban Poet profile image81
      The Suburban Poetposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      That picture gives me the heebie jeebies....

  22. Pearldiver profile image86
    Pearldiverposted 5 years ago

    Religion, Politics and Egos.. sad

    Here's a Liberal Thought!


    Down Under in the Cold South of Reality...

    I've found that MY God constantly tests my Insecurities and Fears...

    I believe she does that, so that I may become a better man...

    And one who has learned from those tests that we, as people are always uniquely able to respect or to pity, or to mock others..

    By their depth of character, their beliefs and how THEIR Insecurities and Fears drive them to be Wrong!

    Edit... big_smile

  23. psycheskinner profile image80
    psycheskinnerposted 5 years ago

    Any thread were people say every person of type x possesses sin y makes me feel a bit ill. It is bigotry, no matter what x and y are.

    1. The Suburban Poet profile image81
      The Suburban Poetposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I hear you...

 
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