Hello, I'm Rainbow Pride. I'm new here, although some of you may have seen me exploring the forums a bit today.
My goal here is to gain support for lesbians, gays, bisexuals, and transgenders by writing about them.
My first project will be about LGBT Stereotypes. So I'd like to ask the community here a few questions.
1. What are some stereotypes you have heard about lesbians, gays, bisexuals, and transgenders?
2. Do you think they are true? If so, why?
3. Why do you think other people believe them?
Let's keep this forum thread on topic. I want to know what you, as a community, have heard about lesbians, gays, bisexuals, and transgenders. Please don't bash others for whatever their opinions may be. Thanks
How ya gonna make an informed decision about stereotypes when you're admittedly biased in favor of, as you said, gaining support for LGBT?
Your whole post supports the fact that the "stereotyping" of LGBT proponents as biased toward immorality, is....totally correct.
Yes, I support LGBT, Brenda. However, I am a very open-minded individual and some stereotypes may be true.
Stereotype #1: Most transgendered women are tall, while most transgendered men are short.
This is a stereotype that is actually true, based on studies surrounding the physical make up of transgendered individuals.
And thank you, Brenda, for the very first stereotype.
YOU believe that all lesbians, gays, bisexuals, and transgenders are ill informed and incapable of making any decisions that do not surround a "gay agenda." (Yes, I've read some of your other threads.)
Good for you that you've read some of my threads.
And wrong! that I believe what you said.
YOU have just "stereotyped" me by what you said.
I do not believe that ALL LGBTs are ill informed and incapable of making any decisions that do not surround a gay agenda!
On the contrary, I personally know at least one gay person who does NOT support a gay agenda. Not only that, the person does NOT support the gay lifestyle! Because that person freely admits that it's wrong and that the idea of gay "marriage" is wrong. I also know OF other gays who have given up that lifestyle and are serving the Lord.
So, there's an example of "stereotyping" for ya-------the fallacy that ALL LGBTs see nothing wrong with being "gay" and are trying to mainstream that immorality into normality.
And who is it that's promoting that stereotyping?
I think it's those who, like you, make an issue of showing and obtaining support for the gay agenda. And you're doing a disservice not only to the entire "gay" population (who need help, not misleading), and specifically to those who're actually trying to change their lives.
Thank you for correcting me about the stereotype I made about you. I am sorry for wrongly passing judgment on you so quickly.
However, I respectfully disagree with your opinion. I do not need help. I am quite happy with the lifestyle I lead and many others are as well.
If others feel that they need to conform to your lifestyle in order to be happy or please God, I am not standing in their way, only offering other options that will allow them to be themselves.
If others feel that they need to conform to your lifestyle in order to be happy or please God, I am not standing in their way, only offering other options that will allow them to be themselves.
Sorry, but I have to argue with this statement. You Do Not Know what 'other options' will allow someone else to be themselves! Just because a person seems to be unhappy, doesn't mean their sexual orientation is something other than what they've lived.
I think most reasonable, fair, people know all the stereotypes, know that there can at times be some truth to them when it applies to some people, but don't let stereotypes be much of factor in their dealing with individuals.
Having said that, however, I'm not a lesbian; and throughout my whole life I've dealt with people who can't seem get past stereotypes about girls/women who look/act like me. I "came of age" in the 70's, when women kind of had to decide whether to be "fake men" and be taken seriously or else "be feminine" and not be taken seriously. I went with "being feminine" because I didn't think I should sacrifice something I liked about myself. I figured, "The world will have to figure out that someone like me can be someone who should be taken seriously." Well, the world never figured that out; and I've spent my whole life having a whole lot of people treat me like I'm a kid or their daughter or "some fluffy-head" because I wouldn't give up looking feminine, and I wouldn't learn to use a deeper voice in order to be taken seriously. (There were whole courses aimed at teaching women how to make their voices deeper and how not to let their voices stray all over the place when they talked.)
At the time, I figured, "It's hardly 'feminism' (valuing being a woman) if we have to turn into 'fake men' in order to get respect." I suspect the world is full of heterosexual women (and men, probably) who deal with the stereotypes nobody even realizes cause so many problems, because "the world" still has such a long way to go when it comes to realizing that stereotypes (while occasionally having a little truth to them in some cases) are about packaging and not about the person inside.
How all this applies to your question (about LGBT issues): As a "non-LGBT" person, I've never spent a lot of time thinking about stereotypes of people who are LGBT, because, honestly, I struggle (almost on a day-to-day basis) with people who "don't get it" when it comes to who I am.
I guess my main point here is that I think there's at least the chance some LGBT people may over-estimate the amount of time non-LGBT people spend thinking about them (or stereotypes of them); because a whole lot of us deal with our problems with stereotypes throughout our whole lives.
This isn't meant to be a "read-the-riot-act" type of thing at all - honest. I just thought it may contribute to the discussion, or even (maybe) reassure anyone in the LGBT "category" either that they're far from alone or else about non-LGBT spending much time thinking about other people's "problems" (since so many of us have our own).
Having said all that, I don't underestimate the struggles LGBT have to deal with when it comes to a lot of people's lousy attitudes. I just wanted to add another element to what is so often the "usual" discussion.
In recent days I've been incubating a Hub on the "struggles" of being a straight woman who wouldn't sell out her own femininity in the interest of being taken seriously. In a lot of ways, I know "the world" treats me pretty well because of what I am. At the same time, getting respect and being taken seriously in a world that so often equates a deep voice, big shoulders, and large frame with "power" or intelligence or reasoning/logic hasn't been easy. I know the world can be pretty out-and-out rotten to people in the LGBT category, but at least the world knows they exist and have these issues. "My" world is one that tends to think women "finally" became equal in the seventies and there are no more issues for women to deal with at this stage in the game. (Again, I didn't mean to hijack your thread and topic - only add an extra element to it. )
Yes, I realize that other people deal with stereotypes as well. However, your being a "fluffy-head" in some people's minds does not affect your right to life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness.
On a side note, can we please stay on topic like I originally requested? I realize that stereotypes affect everyone, but my project isn't about EVERYONE, it is about lesbians, gays, bisexuals, and transgenders.
Sorry if that sounds rude, but thank you for complying with my request in advance
What you say is so important for us all to hear. I dont know about other people, but, I think a Beautiful, Strong, Smart, Feminine, Woman is the norm these days. I thought women today wouldn't put up with being treated like "the little lady" in todays society.
1. What are some stereotypes you have heard about lesbians, gays, bisexuals, and transgenders?
I judge people for myself. I don't need some slob to tell me what to think.
2. Do you think they are true? If so, why?
If they are correct then I will be able to see for myself won't I?
3. Why do you think other people believe them?
I don't think for other people and neither should you or anyone else!
They are people who can't afford gender reassignment surgery. They hate Christian breeders, they want to ruin religion in America. They have an agenda against traditional marraige. They want to flaunt their sexuality openly and in front of children. They want the Bible rewritten to be more inclusive. They want people not to use the word "gay" to mean something odd or bad. They want to have a third restroom option. They want all first aid kits to contain Amy's. They want more shows like Runway. They want the neandrathals to quit farting in public. They want a National Rainbow week. They want the right to be weird and declare their sexual preference in public. They want to teach elementary schools the facts about a gay lifestyle. They want tickets issued to people who throw-up when they see gay men or women kissing. They want a day each year when they can wear carnival coustumes and bolas in public. Most of all they want equal rights which they already have but they can't see equal is equal they need more.
Here you go Rainbow warrior !!! This is the stereotype of stereotypes - perfectly put sneako, thanx for the demonstration of love and tolerance that you put out - Jesus loves you though.
Whats wrong with that post? Man! This happens everytime I try to be sensitive!
Welcome to HP, Rainbow. I LOVE your avatar.
Spending some time looking at the backlogs in the forums might answer some of your question. There's a WHOLE lotta talkin' (arguin') about this issue going on.
I don't have much to say as far as the topic is concerned except that I've met people from all walks of life, and like humans there are cool ones and not so cool ones no matter what community, gender, affiliations, etc. one is dealing with.
I really just wanted to pop in and make sure to give you a warm welcome!
Thank you for the warm welcome, Spider. All credit for my avatar goes to iluvjono4eva from Deviant Art. The original creation can be found here: http://iluvjono4eva.deviantart.com/art/ … -75992659.
I've looked at some of the older forum posts in the LGBT section, actually. However, I am looking for more black and white stereotypes (i.e. Gay men are flamboyant, all lesbians play softball, etc)
I agree with your comment about each individual being different.
Once again, thank you for the warm welcome
You're welcome!! I tried to visit that link, but it appears that the piece of art has been moved or taken down
Let's see....stereotypes...(even though I'm not a big fan of them, I guess we need to be aware of them). So, here are some wide, sweeping generalizations that are kind of offensive...LOL
Gay guys are flamboyant.
Gay people are promiscuous.
Gay people are immoral.
Gay people want everyone to be gay.
Drag queens (and kings) take forever to get ready...okay okay, that one's true
How's that for a start.
Exactly what I was looking for, thank you. However, I know that stereotypes differentiate in each area as well so I am hoping for at least a few more responses
Not sure why the link isn't working. It worked for me when I put it up, but now it says the deviation cannot be found.
Welcome to Hubpages Rainbow Pride. The number one authority on gay issues here on Hubpages is Sneakorocksolid. His hubs and forums will give you alot of interesting reading. Enjoy!
Thank you for the welcome, Friendlyword. However, I plan on taking sneakorocksolid's place as the number one authority on gay issues here on HubPages, no offense to him or you
For the love of God! Please take his place! Try your best to shut him up if you can! You have my blessing. Kiss Kiss
Sorry I can't help with the stereotypes, all the ones I know locally have been mentioned already.
I've heard most people who say they are bi are just straight people who think it makes them a rebel.
One stereotype is that all gay people have identical political beliefs.
It'll be nice to have an expert on gay issues who actually knows what they are talking about
We have Brenda. She is certain she knows what she is talking about.
there is no such thing as transgenders, no matter how much crazy people think they were born as the 'wrong' gender.
drag queens are insane weirdos
drag queens were unloved as children
drag queens only come out after dark
drag queens always dress like female slappers (I don't think I've ever seen in popular culture a drag queen dressing like an everyday respectable woman)
Welcome, Rainbow! You can definitely find lots of crazy stereotypes about the LGBT community by reading some of the forum threads here. The majority of regular, long-term commenters around here support LGBT rights to one degree or another, but there's a very vocal minority who doesn't, and we get lots of newbies from places where homosexuality is still a crime who are often shockingly misinformed.
A few more stereotypes for you:
* All gay men like anal sex.
* Only gay men like anal sex.
* There is always a "top" and a "bottom" in a gay relationship, and the roles never change.
* All bisexual people are promiscuous
* Men who claim to be bisexual are gays who just won't admit it.
* Women who claim to be bisexual are just doing it to attract male attention.
* All crossdressers are gay.
* Transwomen are just gay men who like to bottom.
* Lesbians got raped/sexually abused by men when they were younger, and that's why they hate men.
* Homosexuality is a choice.
Thank you all for helping me with this project. Some of the stereotypes you've mentioned are stereotypes that I haven't even heard! I knew there had to be some that I hadn't heard so I am very thankful that I decided to ask for comments relating to this topic and I am very grateful that the community here is so willing to help and participate
Brenda, although I do not agree with your views, you have given me some very interesting and useful information that will require an entirely different article. Thank you for that.
I'm off to do some research! Please feel free to leave additional comments about stereotypes. I'll be checking this thread often.
When ya get around to actually posing the fact that they need to take responsibility for their own actions and the others accept legitimate Spiritual and/or psychiatric help (especially those who were seduced and/or raped and therefore unwilling victims), your little project might've served a good purpose.
Wow, what an entrance to HubPages! Welcome, by the way.
From a very young age I was taught to ignore stereotypes and accept people for who they really are while ignoring the pressures from society.
I grew up during the 70's when the hope of Equal Rights seemed to be becoming law. Right after the Civil Rights movement and desegregation. Yup, I went to a desegregated school and struggled to be understood by blacks and whites because my step-father was black. I grew up in a very liberal town where we were taught (in school) the concepts of acceptance and tolerance, yet I couldn't find it from my schoolmates.
If you want to learn more about tolerance & acceptance, I suggest you watch All In The Family. (1970's show with Archie Bunker) or Good Times (another 1970's show about a black family living in the projects of Chicago)
Most of the stereotypes have already been listed.
I personally like that Adam Lambert is so popular and helping to dispel the myth that gay men are all flamers. (Rock Hudson, for example, wasn't out except amongst his friends, until after his death).
Macho men who are sexy (to both sexes) can also be gay.
Did anyone mention the Lipstick Lesbian yet? I seem to attract women with this stereo-type MORE than I attract men. LOL (I'm straight.)
We'll be interested to read your hubs. Again, welcome!
Homosexuality used to be considered a mental illness in the DSMIV Manual and according to Psychiatry. It has since been taken off the list as a "mental illness".
One of my college textbooks talked about how there is an actual difference in the brain of a 'gay' individual, than that of a 'straight' person. Perhaps some are born with a wee bit more of one hormone or another, thus causing the preference.
Then, of course, there are those individuals who are gay or bisexual because of environment and other factors.
Im divorced was married 10 years to my x wife who is bi. so this is the honest true to me skinny. i also have two sons from that marriage. if selfish isn't a stereotype associated with bi sexual people. i want to make it one because its true i think. to be defined and consumed with ones sexual preference. to put something so not important .and prop it up as a worthy cause in life. is a affront to life itself . i am in no way a hater. and will fight ferociously to ensure that gays are treated equally and with respect . but agree with the ideas of it ? i simply cant . and if anyone gay is getting pissed at this post . relax your ideas are safe by me . we simply see things differently.
It is true that many people are selfish and become obsessed with their sexual preferences. However, the same can be said of many straight men and straight women.
Have you had experiences with other bisexual women or are you basing your new "stereotype" off of just that one experience?
I thought you were asking for stereotypes as research...or do you want to argue about them?
Not trying to argue.
You'll see that one of my questions were why people believe them. I am simply asking him if the stereotype he made up was based off of one experience or many.
I want to know where these stereotypes come from, as well as what they are. My comment was for research purposes only.
ok, I misunderstood your post. I apologize. (btw - I can be very sensitive, even when reading! lol)
Being divorced I feel in many ways the same as you, although my ex is not bi or gay.
The serious point in your post is definately an issue I have seen, it is as though the pressure of being bi insists that it becomes the centre of attention, I always suspected that it could be that some women claim bi - to be the centre of attention. Gender is so complex and interwoven with normal personality traits and also personality disorders.
just the one and i know im being silly. to base a stereotype on one case subject is not good science .i don't really want to add it as one . i try hard to see people on a individual bases . nice to meet you . i need a hub to read tho write one. or at least read mine . lol.
Thank you, aware, for seeing that I was not trying to argue with your stereotype, simply asking where it came from
I'm working on a hub right now. I keep finding new information and am trying to organize it in a way that will be thoroughly informative and useful
I will definitely take a look at your hubs later!
I am curious to know how anyone outside of a particular lifestyle can present any form of unbiased type -stereo or mono. The notion suggests that first, those within that arena fully understand its parameters as well as those outside of it. Second, that it implies a social awareness of an applied behavior -in this case a gender or sexual one.
Well, it is my opinion that, in order to identify a stereotype as untrue, you must get information from someone who fully understands its parameters.
Here is an example: Say a woman is pregnant. Doesn't she ask all her friends who were pregnant at some point in their lives what it was like?
If you were writing an article about homeless people and wanted to tell everyone what it was like being homeless, wouldn't you either A) Ask a homeless person or B) Become homeless temporarily in order to write an informative article?
Does that answer your question or did I completely misunderstand what you were trying to say?
While I do appreciate the semantic gesture -and fully nod to the direction you are coming from- would have to go for the latter.
True, in order to engage the type which is being cast then certainly, you would have to live the full extent of that particular style. Which is why I asked how can an unbiased response to the OP be given by those who really only have limited social and/or moral soundbites to build an honest stereo/mono position.
The two sides will easily offer concave/convex opinion -though 99.9% on both sides do not understand it.
I have many friends who have entered a particular lifestyle from mono-sexual, homosexual, trans-gender to hetero D/s lifestyle. But even being around them, I can't make an affirmed type cast (not saying I would want to make one) -probably because there are many variations, expressions and untold/unseen/inexperienced on my part...
I wasn't asking for TRUE stereotypes
I'm asking for stereotypes that you have heard. I'm asking if you believe them. I'm asking why you believe them. And I'm asking why you think others believe them.
Have heard too many to mention.
And after being caught in the Proposition rally @ Union Square, NY, heard so many racist expressions from those outside AND those inside that lifestyle against that lifestyle.
Do I agree with either, no. Hate speech is still racism. Whether it is a type against their own, against those outside or against those within.
Why others do is either based on social fear propaganda, moral position, political soundbite lobbying, even in some cases mental and physical health concerns. So all those mediums would present a substantial reason.
PS, by not wanting REAL mono or stereo types, why create an article or thread about it. Wouldn't it be best to have the real to express a social issue... (just a birds eye view, here)
Hmmm. I will not give topics of steotypes because I am just in my feeling ALL are acceptable.. We have had what people call "gay" same sex relations an by-relations for eons of time..
Why no focus on the positives of what these relations bring as a whole community!
I have MANY friend couples and singles whom are same-sex and by-sex orientated.
Have had the HUGEST inpiration from them in the arts for years, the flavour of humour is astounding, intelligance briilliant.. NO FEAR... all roard are crossing.. YET, They are VERY, honourable peeps as well.
MY fave friends love the same sex and love me for not! HAHA
Why are you trying to seperate??
I'm not trying to separate. I am simply trying to have a grasp of understanding about what and why people think the way they do.
Since you have friends who are gay, you surely realize that we are all unique with our own personalities, styles, etc.
Isn't this thread a long, drawn out form of the various classifications of sexual preferences & fetishes? Hmm, what year is it now?
I'll post a few stereotypes I've confronted as a gay man (that have been sometimes embarrassingly untrue):
- all gay men are fashionable
- all gay men love celebrity gossip
- all gay men are catty snobs
- gay men prey on children
- all lesbians dress like men
- all lesbians hate men
- LGBT people "recruit" other people like them
- being LGBT means you conform to a "lifestyle"
- gay men really want to be women, and lesbians really want to be men
Some of these stereotypes have a nugget of truth to them, but they afford little/no room for significant numbers of exceptions (or they don't allow for the fact that they don't apply to a majority of real-world LGBT people).
And I'd like to second kerryg's list and Uninvited Writer's point about the stereotype that all gay people have the same politics.
Are those actually stereotypes or social adverts.
To me, a stereotype is simply socially accepted/implied racism.
all flamboyant theaters are Bohemian.
all water drinkers are breeders.
all coffee drinkers go to Starbucks.
all tea drinkers are right wing liberals.
OMG that is sooooo steotyicical..!!! Hello, did you get that from a magazine!?
SO crap!!!!! So UNTRUE!
Actually most predetors I've heard in the predetor state of North Carlolina are homeless, abused, ex- milirary..OR just reclusive.. people
I can tell from Livelongers post she/he is in "religious" FORMAL.. Caddy and So boring.. N
Hw about saying what your face to face is versus "religious" CRAP"
"EDIT" my response was to livelonger!!!!
Hello, where are we living and why is sooooooo the world F@@ked up!! ???
I wil say
Thank you for your input, livelonger. I am embarrassed by many stereotypes as well, which is why I am trying to collect as many of them as I can in one place and trying to devalue the negative stereotypes and help people to understand that we are all unique individuals.
OMG - I'm sorry but the recruitment idea is funny!
I don't know if the rumor existed before the Village People recorded In The Navy, but when I was young that was 'rumored' to be a song to recruit young children into the gay community! How ridiculous!!
do you think it was a recruitment song?
Honestly, I thought it was only a great Disco song!!
(and remember, I said I was young!!)
Relax - our Brenda is the main reason for the Punk movement !
relax? I dont get it. I just dont know why she assumes I was naive after I said I was young at the time of Village People. I definitely understood the 'recruitment' idea when I first heard it!! lol
she is saying your naive for thinking they dont have an "agenda"
AND you missed the 'Frankie Goes to Hollywood' reference !!! and I thought that was SO smart ! Ah well back to the drawing board.
I missed it too, sorry..soo super happy you pointed it out "Relax don't do it
When you want to to go to it
Relax don't do it
When you want to come
Relax don't do it
When you want to suck to it
Relax don't do it
When you want to come
Come-oh oh oh"
Surprisingly, the recruitment stereotype is EVERYWHERE. People believe that, since we ARE trying to have our voices heard and we ARE asking for respect in the media that we are also trying to get everyone else to become gay, which is simply not the case.
We are only asking for the same basic rights everyone else has: life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness. Many people try to stand in our way of being nurses, being teachers, getting married, raising a family, the same things that any straight person is allowed to have with no questions asked.
The questions usually wouldn't even come up if (most) gays didn't wear their sodomistic lusts on their sleeves and insert their bias into their daily lives and the lives of innocents.
Don't ask, don't tell. Don't tell, don't ask.
"lives of innocents."
EXPLAIN WHAT YOU MEAN BY THAT DURHAM!
I don't think I minced words, but hey, okey dokey.
I mean that perversion (if adult people so choose to engage in it) should be kept behind their own closed doors instead of subjecting innocent minds to the idea that it's a correct or normal lifestyle.
Okay, I wasn't going to say this, but now I have to.
Marriage is defined as a union between a man and a woman. Since when was it possible to write a law to change the definition of a word? Why should it be possible to change the definition of a word by creating a law?
BTW - I'm not against gay unions just as I'm not against the union of Athiests. Because, seriously, how can an Athiest get married? A marriage is a Religios Ceremony! A union is a civil ceremony to accomplish the same thing.
By clinical definition a transgendered person cannot be gay. If you are a male passing to female status that does not mean you are a gay man who wants to become a woman. It means you are a person in a man's body with a female mind, not a gay man wanting to become female. I think that is one of the most ruinous stereotypes out there. A transgendered person is not a gay person seeking to change gender to enhance his or her "gayness"
I have a question about gay porn, something I hate and hope is not typical. I've seen some and wonder why the men's "come-hither" look to other men looks like sad little boys. I first saw this in a movie I got for my son for school and had to tell the librarian it needed a rating! (Better add this - it was about Alexander the Great and I had no idea anything like this was in it!) Anyway, there was a very naked sex scene with two guys and one guy looked like that. Then on a blog, this guy had posted pictures, unexpectedly explicit pictures and the two I saw were the same - sad little boy look.
My sister's gf had some gay porn (NO clue why) and she said it was the same. I looked and it is. Quite disturbing.
That look - is only the alternate of the 'sad little girl' look in the way that women look at men in porn. This is especially noticeable when the girl is kneeling and 'blowing' the guy and so is the height of a child, normally looking up 'like a child'. It is the situation of the person as victim/child - yet another of the reasons why porn could be harmful in its messages.
I have noticed this even in advertising that is aimed at men.
I believe some porn is directed straight at the sub-conscious mind, by-passing any moral filtering.
The lowest common denominator of advertising.
I am sure this is right - this also chimes with connections around the person as commodity. Maybe this is the reason why so much porn is abusive, either marginally or directly.
With reference the 'on knees' position, I downloaded what was supposed to be a sci-fi movie which was turned out to be prolonged sequence of a child around five years old in exactly this situation. Maybe the most upsetting piece of film I have ever seen.
I knew I should have stayed out of this but thank you A poet. And here I was thinking sex should be about love. But victimization and child assault it what people like apparently. Disturbing is not even a strong enough word.
Look gay people I was teasing you in a nice way no harm intended. The only issues I have with gays are indoctrinating children and marraige. The other stuff was me trying to be steriotypical the other direction, lighten up!
Well, at least you know I love you. Kiss Kiss
ok - I forgive you as well - but I am not gay so I don't know if it counts
I am against indoctrinating kids with religion and imposing religion on marriage.
See - I knew religion was gay, all those frocks the guys wear and don't come near me with all that laying on of hands stuff !
Well I would watch those Catholics but I'm a perfectly reasonable Mormon. Would you like a copy of the other Testament of Christ?
Actually, having been forced to 'understand' the king jim version when still in my formative years (of how to argue against such nonsense) I wouldn't mind one, I have never read yours and so cannot begin to argue against it.
Well I would gladly send you one with my testimony handwritten inside. If you are against teaching children about religion, well, we are even more and probably the most agressive teaching our children. We don't force it but we expect them to understand before they decide oneway or another. Gays typically don't care for our position on gay marraige but we love them regardless of their sexuality.
well this is forcing it by its other name, indoctrination.
I guess I can get it in any bookstore ? What is the title? will save the transatlantic post
About gays indoctrinating people: you mean unlike the way straight people indoctrinate people?
I thought you were just giving what the OP asked for: stereotypes you'd heard. With a few oddities thrown in of course!
For those of you arguing about gay marriage, I would like to share a story about a couple I know named Jenn and Ingrid.
Jenn was attending college when she met Ingrid, a foreign student. They became friends quickly and fell in love soon afterward. They dated all throughout college. They made plans to have a civil union marriage when they both graduated, thinking they had the same rights as a straight couple and Ingrid would be awarded a permanent citizenship so they could remain together.
But no, the civil union marriage did not allow Ingrid to stay in the states. And, although Jenn and Ingrid considered themselves to be married, Ingrid was deported and they were separated.
After a foreigner has been deported, it is very hard to get back into the United States. And if Jenn had moved to Ingrid's country, she would be sent back to the United States too because Ingrid's country did not allow gay marriage either.
Could you imagine being separated from someone you love? Possibly forever? All because no one will allow you to have the same rights a straight couple has?
We aren't asking for much. We aren't asking for you to open your churches and allow us to have Christian marriages. We are asking for the same recognition and same rights that a straight couple's marriage has!
Many straight people have said that marriage is just a piece of paper, so why not allow us to have that piece of paper? Why not allow Jenn and Ingrid's marriage to have the same rights as a straight couple's? Why not allow us to make the same commitment straight people are allowed to make with no questions asked?
If my life partner and I were to get married, how would that affect your marriage at all? It wouldn't. Why can't you just allow us to be happy? To have the same rights a straight couple has?
I understand your position but there is a difference and it does matter to the religious community. You can't disqualify our feelings and in the same breath say we should honor yours.
THIS IS NOT ABOUT YOU AND YOUR FEELINGS. RIGHTS ARE WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT HERE. HAVING THE SAME RIGHTS YOU HAVE WITH YOUR WIFE. I DONT WANT TO GO TO CHURCH WITH YOU. GAY PEOPLE WANT THE SAME RIGHTS AND PROTECTIONS YOU HAVE AS A MARRIED MAN. HOW YOU AND YOUR GD CHURCH FEELS ABOUT IT SHOULD NOT MATTER IN A FREE, EQUAL SOCIETY THAT IS SUPPOSE TO HAVE EQUAL RIGHTS. THE RELIGIOUS RIGHT, THE RIGHT WING, THE REPUBLICAN PARTY STAND FOR NOTHING HONORABLE ANYMORE. LIES AND HYPOCRISY IS THE ONLY THING WE HERE FROM YOU THESE DAYS.
Tell us EXACTLY what rights, under law, are you being denied, please.
Can you vote, yes.
Can you work w/ legal papers or not so legal, yes,
Can you pay taxes and be given a refund? yes.
Can you apply and receive medicaid, medicare and food stamps? yes, yes and yes.
Can you go to school and be educated, yes.
Can you shoot someone and go to jail, yes.
So, what rights don't you have under law?
Financial benefits for death (insurance) of a partner or spouse?
Guess what, there are over 250,000 cases still in court for standard marriage folk with claims of financial remuneration.
Legally, the case is weak.
You read Rainbows' comment. Then you asked all these questions as if you didn't read the comment or you completely ignored the comment, or it was too complicated for you to understand and you asked all those questions for clarification. Or you're just not listening to this conversation. You just want to make a statement regardless of the facts in front of your face.
OW! If thats the case why not accept a civil union with all the benefits intact. You get what you want without offending anyone and I would vote for that all day long. The fact that the gay community won't accept a compromise that would make this issue go away is proof they have an agenda, sorry. I believe that agenda is to bring down religion in America and the world.
OK SNEAK... I think I said too much here. I would agree with you about the civil unions if they were recognized by, and came with, Federal rights and privileges straight couples get. I have nothing against religion, and I don't think children should learn about sex of any kind from anyone but their parents. You should have left us alone. You put us in the middle of your campaigns and speeches and sermons.
??? You don't think gay people can be religious? Or, have faith in God? I find that difficult to believe....for all gays, anyway....sounds like a stereotype to me.
generally speaking I am neutral on such things, but seriously, to ask that question is just ridiculous. The forums have had this debate before. My position was this: IF marriage by alternative lifestyles is such a pressing matter and so necessary, then every single child who has assisted a disabled parent or family member ought to have the same rights & compensation you are asking for as well as nannies and migrant workers.
Just because you are married doesn't justify your right to benefit even if you have supported/assisted your civil partner. If this is to be the case, then every divorce will need to be overturned and all those poor males who lost everything to their legal married female spouses ought to be reimbursed plus damages.
what can ANY alternative couple bring to the marriage apart from finances -without man made interference (synthetic pro creation).
Exactly what rights are you being denied under the law? Financial: alimony, life insurance, estate holdings? So it all DOES come down to money. How neo-capitalistic...
"Just because you are married doesn't justify your right to benefit even if you have supported/assisted your civil partner"
DO YOU WANT TO AMEND YOUR STATEMENT?
twenty-one, by "benefit" I don't think it's limited (or even related!) to financial compensation for some kind of service rendered, as you've described (comparing a child who helps disabled parent...)
By benefit, it means things like LEGAL entitlements that ONLY married couples can get. The right to sit bedside in the hospital as your significant other is dying -- as an example. Most hospitals refuse anyone who is not family, and you aren't family if you aren't married or blood. (Can you imagine spending a lifetime with someone, and then you can't be with them when that person is dying???)
social security for survivor
life insurance (as natural heir, not as beneficiary)
issues of parenting / custody / etc.
Actually, now that I think about it, the list of benefits in terms of what happens to property, etc. when a person passes, is VERY long. But ya gotta be married. Otherwise, it all has to be spelled out in a will. Why require one group of people to have to be on top of a will, constantly making changes, when another group is just automatically entitled due to marriage?
I'd put money on it that there's a website that lists ALL of the things married couples are entitled to, that gay couples are denied.
Marriage does not have to be about religion, but when it is, why can't gays follow their faith and have a religious ceremony? How can we even CONSIDER allowing the Catholic church to dictate policy with such a broad sweep that it includes non-catholics, jews, atheists, buddhists, etc.?
Ya gotta separate church and state -- and marriage is always a civil union, even when the couple engages in a religious ceremony. The law only recognizes the civil contract, not the religious. Just thought I'd point that out.
Many straight people have said that marriage is just a piece of paper, so why not allow us to have that piece of paper
You can't take the judgement of a few (you say many - how do you come by that claim??) and claim it to be from all. When there is disagreement a compromise is in order.
I knew of a woman who married an illegal immigrant through a civil union and he was NOT deported. Why would your gay example be deported for the same ceremony IF it were legal? They wouldn't - because it would be LEGAL.
The simple solution is for the government to get their hands out of the churches business and stop preforming marriages all together. If us straight people had to deal with civil unions they would get fixed quick.
um, does anyone ever think about a union between Athiests? It's not exactly a marriage, now is it? Cuz a marriage is a Religious Ceremony. A civil union, honestly, can be for non-religious straight people, or for gay people who can't be 'married' due to the definition of the word....
What about the beliefs that with gays and lesbians no same-sex individual is safe in a room/space alone with the gay/lesbian individual for fear that the gay or lesbian will hit on or make an overt sexual advance on the straight person just as soon as an opportune moment arrives?
I know quite a few people who try to be non-homophobe but they really do think they should always go out with several friends when there is 1 homosexual individual expected to be present for a night out or event.
Gay men and Women are just as perceptive and decent as straight people. It is not a truer statement that you cant leave your farm animals alone with straight people? AND ANOTHER THING. WHY IS IT ALWAYS THE FATTEST, SLOPPIEST, STINKEST STRAIGHT MAN THAT THINKS A GAY MAN IS GONNA RAVISH HIM?
The biggest and silliest stereotype, in my opinion, is putting all gays in the same bag, i.e. thinking they all vote the same (as UW said), think the same, dress the same, support the same causes, etc.
There are as many "gay personalities" as there are non-gay. Being gay isn't a conduct code, nor a social group, nor a political party nor any other such thing, it's a sexual orientation, and as such, it has nothing to do with anything else except one's preference for partners.
The stereotype of putting all gays in the same "package" is as silly and ignorant as putting all heterosexuals in one and the same "package". That's just plain silly, right? Ditto if done with gays.
It is more than that even. I really had never thought about it at all until my gay female friend briefly met my gay male friend. I made some throw away comment like you should have something to talk about anyway and got a mini lecture about how female gay is further from male gay than it is from a man. Of course when you think - what I found odd was that this had never occurred to me before.
Agreed. One of the most irritating stereotypes is that of a "gay lifestyle." There are thousands of different gay lifestyles, like there are thousands of straight lifestyles. Being gay or straight is an inborn, immutable sexual orientation. Is there such a thing as a brunette lifestyle?
The US GAO (General Accounting Office) lists over 1,100 federal rights and benefits alone (i.e. those that you won't get even if you're fortunate to live in one of the 5 states that allows same-sex marriage): http://www.religioustolerance.org/mar_bene.htm
Sneak..while the imperialistic use of Christianity, in particular, has both "sanctified" marriage and defined it as one man and one woman this is by no means a universal concept.
I think of all the ways "indoctrination" occurred along these lines, and I wonder what you are afraid of...
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