Non-human animals don't have any awareness of God. Why is that? Is it because man was made in the image of God and animals weren't? Or is it because God only exists in people who have the ability to think and imagine, which makes God a product of human imagination?
How do you know what an animal thinks? You have absolutely no idea what could be going on in their minds.
"Non-human animals don't have any awareness of God."
-How do you know that?
I'm an atheist and even I'm curious as to how you know what animals are thinking.
They may be thinking many things...I don't know what but I'm quite sure they're not worshiping any gods. They don't kneel to pray, they don't offer flowers and food (any offerings) to gods (which is ridiculous, by the way...offering something to any gods considering he/she/it owns everything-like what believers believe). They don't consider churches or mosques or temples holy or sacred...so I would rather consider these acts as no awareness of gods and that god is just a human concept!
You're right - the Judeo-Christian-Islamic God as we understand it is a human concept, created for us and by us. But that doesn't mean that other animals haven't come up with similar ideas. Other intelligent species may well have evolved the same hyperactive agency detection device we did, and may well have invented their own mythologies to explain the rain and snow and sun and moon like we did.
Sure, they can't express it the same way we do without opposable thumbs and detached hyoid bones, but they might have their own way of making things up in their own languages. We know that elephants have burial rituals and that dolphins have names and that orcas have dialects. Maybe they have myths too. We can't assume they don't just because we don't speak their languages.
Maybe they 'worship' in other non-human like ways such as peeing on the sacred spot. Why else does my male dog go from bush to shrub looking for the perfect spot? Besides, I know my dog worships me as the awesome "Giver of Leftovers" who every two weeks turns into the diabolical and dreaded 'God of Bath Day'.
Buh hahahaha ha - oops I did my evil again didn't I?
Who does not believe in the existence of Allah is an infidel and can not debate with him
But say one word peace
consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us. The creation waits in eager expectation for the sons of God to be revealed. For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God. (Rom:8:19ff)
If God is in your mind and your mind in in you
... then God is in you....
How many times have you heard this?
Except, not all minds understand God so they say he is not or say he is falsely( same as saying he is not)
So therefore God is the mind that Truly understand Him...
Or they have a supreme awareness of god, so much in tune with god that they have no need of the trappings (traps) and rituals of religion to commune with god.
Ours is not the only way to see the world.
Or people are imaginary, and exists in the mind of God?
This would seem more likely based on the fact that some who scoffed at the question are existentially challenged.
I had not heard the phrase "existentially challenged". It almost sounds extraterrestrial, which someone who is existentially challenged over a living God, is more porn to believe in even though there is no factual evidence of UFOs and aliens science fiction is real in the minds of believers though. Maybe we humans have more in common on differ parallels then we think? Could they be right?
So, if we humans were created in the mind of your god, what does that say about the mind of god?
A bit like the carpenter who builds a table that has structural weaknesses, so it collapes in use by the people it was meant for.
On the other hand, if the table was built by the people themselves, any structural imperfections would be learned about, avoided in subsequent versions and any lasting consequenses would rest squarely on the people's shoulders.
Because everything suddenly appeared out of nothing for no reason whatsoever.
I don't think that only people have the ability to think and imagine. My dogs dreams of chasing cats all the time.
That's not quite the same thing, though. Can a dog imagine the dog house they would prefer if they had a choice? Can a dog figure out a way to build that house if he/she wants it bad enough?
Some of the "higher" animals can create art. At least, we call it art. Of course the Elephant Paintings have merit and beauty, but are they creative in the same way as Picasso or Van Gogh? Do they ever get to a point where they "need" to create?
Apes can learn limited sign language or how to use a certain amount of symbols on touch chat, but they can't band together to build a civilization. They can't build a hospital or a school.
The animals are aware of God. I hear the birds singing praises every morning.
Of course animals know of God, I've finally found the proof...
Oh look! another "God isn't real/God is real" post! How original! No wait, it's exactly the same as the previous religion thread made by jainismus. Which is also made to incite,
But you noticed that his thread has over 1700 replies, so maybe people will be attracted to your hubs (all of which you posted in the last 32 hours) after starting such "provocative" threads that are sure to get people riled up.
@smiling whats provocative in it?...and u r right god is imaginary or real is not new thought...it is one of oldest thoughts...people kept believing in all sorts of god , got over it and invented new ones...so i guess even after 1000 yrs god is real or imaginary would continue to be discussed....
Talk pro/against religion are provocative. While I have no problem with such debates, the fact is that this thread is exactly the same, albeit with a different title, as the one I mentioned. I doubt this thread was started to engage in some debate. The original post lacks substance and i suspect was only started as a promotional tool.
@smiling may be it is provocative for most but in my view it is normal thread...
it accomplishes and contributes nothing
I can debate that everybody I observe is only in my mind. (Watch the movie 'Identity'). This debate come from Plato, well before Christian monotheism.
Does an objective reality even exist? (Watch the movie 'Memento') Further reading @ http://thebrowser.com/interviews/vlatko … everything
The idea that you, yourself - call it ego, soul, identity or a unified conception of self is also an illusion is also something that is unacceptable to most people.
The book that I'm referring to where all these is coming from is the one I read called "Who's in Charge?: Free Will and the Science of the Brain".
So instead of Neo in 'Matrix Reloaded' meeting the architect, if able to enter into your own mind, you would meet 'the interpreter'. The hundreds and thousands of little TV screens representing your synapses and the illusion of a self is akin to a political convention: whoever shouts loudest 'wins' and that is your decision.
But you already made your decision before your 'self' is even aware of it.
Fight/flight reactions need to be quicker than the relative slower consciousness awareness and that is how con men, tricksters, and fear mongers work in getting you to a decision to part with your money. Your heart and stomach also have neurons about the size of a cat's brain.
Descartes, not Dante.
Dante was an Italian poet.
You are right, I was not paying attention. And to think that I've the divine comedy in my collection, shame on me.
Plato was not before Christian Monotheism. You lack an understanding of where and when Christian Monotheism originated.
ya right...infact universe was formed for Christianity.... reason universe exist is to allow humans to follow Christianity...
Please explain when and where Christian Monotheism originated?
Year and Place will do...
And don't forget, one cannot have Christian anything without a/the Christ...
Not really related to anything. I've been using the mobile site for a while, so can tell me how long ago HubPages adopted this new forum format? And why? Whyyyyyy?
No dear, God does exist. He is omnipresent in invisible state. Not really sure why you posted this forum. Or why so many people start more or less the same conversation every other day. It's really frustrating. No offence intended.
So is the purple dragon in my garage, omnipresent in invisible state.
Well, I can't see him. I can't feel him. But I definitely can see the rays of the sun. I can feel its warmth. I should probably start worshiping the sun because obviously it has more powers than the god that you call exists.
Funny you should say that, when my oldest child was two, she told me when you see the rays shining from behind the clouds, thats God talking....Maybe, your just not listening...
Actually I became deaf after repeated trying to listen god's ways and words which are so contradictory to each other.
Being stubborn is not the answer....but it is up to you, if you do not care tp listen, that is your choice:)
gods ways dont contradict themself maybe it seems that way because you forget that the bible was written over a time span of 2000 years ergo the culture and the way people thought changed over that time....thats just life but his ways have not changed but he has bent them because he accepts we are imperfect and that he needs to give us a lot of leway
Or perhaps, they're just rays of sunshine and no gods are actually talking.
Rays of sunshine though the clouds makes me feel happy. Then I start thinking happy thoughts and entertain a bunch of stuff in my mind that it's "alllllllllll gooooooood".
If believing something makes a person happy, why annoy the person with logic? Humans are illogical beings.
you cant explain the physical world by purely physical means ergo there is something other than physical out there...common sense really
haha thats like a child asking his father why cant i fly...you just cant mate
And, your answer is like a selfish father who hasn't a clue, hence can't even make an attempt to answer the question deserving of his son.
i did answer it in my first comment something other than physical, you believe what you want but you need to understand that it is a BELIEF...dont tell me how logical your conclusion is compared to mine because it really is not
Agreed, an irrational belief isn't the same as a logical conclusion.
ok you read it how you want im not banging my head against a wall with you
I am not standing in your way or joining you, you're doing a bang up job all on your own.
i wouldnt mind if you actually wrote a hub or two but your whole meaning for being on this site is to make up 1 line sentences that contradict whatever someone says about their belief in god...even atheists (the educated ones) will not say there is no god they will only go as far as saying there probably isnt one but your attitude is completely irrational, you dont believe in religion yes? thats fine and completely acceptable but you cant tell me there is no god because you dont know.
I don't understand these forum thread about religion, the existence of God, etc. What difference does it make whether some people think God is imaginary or not. It says in the bible, "Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. There is also supernatural power in God's word. Maybe people who believe in God have strived to get closer to him and know things non-believers do not. Unless one is trying to convert non-believers, what difference does it make? The debate on the existence of God will always exist until the end of the world.
Exactly! The debate of the existence of god will always exist until people cease to believe. That is why it is called BELIEF. It manifests through the minds. People don't debate on the existence of the sun because its existence is not a belief. It's a fact...truth, whereas the existence of god is just belief, an opinion, an idea that has no evidence to make it truth.
What about beliefs we all hold which are not based on objectively verifiable evidence, but are nevertheless assumed to be true?
This is true, even math has assumptions:
An axiom is a premise or starting point of reasoning. As classically conceived, an axiom is a premise so evident as to be accepted as true without controversy.Aristotle,
Actually I was thinking more of beliefs for which we only have subjective evidence, yet hold to be true. The 'problem of other minds' is a classic example in philosophy.
If belief solely grounded in subjective experience is unjustified, then certain every day beliefs are also unjustified. If such belief is justified, then god-belief is justified. Whether that particular belief is true or not is a different matter, but we can say it is justified.
You may deny the word "God". But you cannot deny "life" or nature. And something is creating new life, plants and animals. There must be a cause behind it or it could never exist. So don't call it "God" but it is something.
Just a fun comment, from a headline on the newspaper in a Simpsons episode. "Scientists prove Cat heaven real! Human heaven NOT!!"
Cut little cartoon cat with angle wings an a halo, standing in front of Cat heaven's gate. LOL!!
If a person limits a discussion solely to a stereotype of religion as "right wing fundamentalist back woods Christian" they will perpetuate their own confusion as you have here in this "question". Look at other religions such as the Hindu and indigenous religions. Also what about the dove appearing as the holy spirit? What about St Francis of Assisi? Read it cuz I won't do your homework.
The real premise is yet another inane failed attempt to ridicule religion.
It's not about ridiculing religion, but questioning (ad infinitum) the often fanatical claims of some religionists. Does this ring a bell?
we all know this is about ridiculing religion under the guise of "questioning".
These atheist cliques need to do some homework and desperately need to stop stereotyping.
Check out the latest news about Indigenous Canadian suicide levels and you'll see first hand the effects of cultural/religious genocide. Stop and think what the barrage of religious hatred is doing to Indigenous people. Do cynical atheists realize they are contributing to genocide of such peoples? Does Tibet ring any bells?
I personally have no restricted "atheist stereotypical" affiliation with any religion but practice total harmony between religions.
OK everyone start by reading up on St Francis and then examine the plight of Tibetans for homework (let me guess, St Francis never existed and it's all a big conspiracy).
This topic is vitally important but no one cares to protest about Indigenous genocide. The hot topic these days is who can use a dunny.
I speak of American native genocide. It was the worst genocide in human history.
Even made a few museum displays.
Hitler took lots of notes from it this genocide.
Yes most people do not want to listen about the stories of native genocide in general.
Germans have remorsed well over Hitler and moved on happily, except for Jews.
Thanks for your reply, Oztinato.
First point, I agree we should stop stereotyping. It happens when you group atheists into cliques. It also happens when we atheists refer to "Christians." There are good and bad examples in all walks of life.
Next, I did search for information on Indigenous Canadians. http://canadiangenocide.nativeweb.org/intro2.html I was totally unaware of the more recent history and it's mind-boggling! Such evil bias and bigotry, such cruelty, such hypocrisy coming from church leaders. The awful things going on in those schools, so similar to what has been happening here in Australia.
It really is wicked, no one can be excused. So, do we start a witch-hunt and throw accusations at any particular people? Do we say "They claim to be christian, but they can't be real christians."
The existence of various cliques has nothing to do with stereotyping all atheists. It's clear there is a clique of atheists on HP. I'm not saying you belong to that clique but we know who the atheist obsessives are.
My point is that atheists who denigrate all religion are participating in cultural genocide. By tarring all religions with the same brush of ridicule just because of a "right wing fundamentalist back woods" nagging stereotype, the damage to other harmless and important indigenous peoples is perpetuated.
Each Religion I think of as a culture. There is always something to learn from each culture. As we each can encoperate the best of each culture within ourselves.
The down side of each Religion is it's us against them too often. Each group will end up breaking their own laws greater than anyone else.
From not belonging to any group except bio organism, arts and love. My rules are simply. Be honest and do not harm, it's easy to keep ethics.
Religion and Gods must be based on each of our own imagination. For every person's achievement in tbeir lives, was all once imagined first. If you can imagine most people in your Religion are Hippocrates, why lay down with dogs who have flees.
your views are far more accurate than most agnsotic atheist types. We both know its about Love, Peace and tolerance be it religion or atheism.
Yes, at the very core love keeps all creatures alive and well. From the outside appearance much is run by fear by these synthetic coded corporatism who control much of our minds. History repeats it's self, when the abuses becomes too great the collective consciousness of the people change things for the better, not politics or religion.
We imagine .Then we invent and build off that. Someday we might build a real god. So take heed.
We have only one God everyone worships.
It's name is Government
Nah, CP, the only thing worth worshiping is ignorance. With that you can get away with anything!
PS - or should I say, wilful ignorance?
"is more porn to believe in"???...how much porn is enough to believe in?...and why would you 'need' to in the first place?...Am I missing something here???
If porn is the negative to love making. The the Bible has too much porn in it, for me.
I'm addictive to love, may as well admit it.
And fun, of course. If it was just about making babies, without any enjoyment attached to it, no one would want to do it....so maybe there was a designer who had his head screwed on right.
Where and when did the idea arise, that you were not supposed to enjoy it? Was it some administration somewhere in history that wanted to use this wonderful ability in order to control and subjugate the population?
Admittedly it's a very strong emotion and attraction, so can become a problem amongst people trying to live successfully in community. But, carefully and responsibly managed, without undue pressure or bullying, sexual encounters can be a very uniting entity. Certainly not to be labeled as evil, or "against God's will." Anyway, if such a god designed and set in place everything that we are and do, he/she/it would have built in this faculty of enjoyment with it.
"Porn" is only the sick stuff put out by people wanting to make money out of our basic desires.
Greeks root word for pornography refers to prostitution. At least hookers service willing customer's. Where politicans often enough force unwilling customers towards things they do not want. Then on top of that, these politican must aline with local God practice. Then go fight other imaginary friends (Gods).
Try to explain that to an Alien who lands on earth. I won't take them to my leader. My leader is standing right here.
You imagined your kind of God out of millions of God's to choose from, did you not? Some geography areas of the world you don't even have a choice of your own personal God. Imagination is the closest thing to God. I can imagine casting a difficult guestion out into the
Universe, and guess what? I get a better answer than trying to figure it out in my own head. Could be activating my 90℅ white matter subconscious too, in which is more powerful than my conscious mind.
No one, no thing. The assumption of a creator is the beginning of the myth, but it was never necessary.
Try googling the new discoveries made by M theory scientists who have now confirmed the existence of God by math.
Of course it won't be easy for diehard atheists to come to grips with sciences own "maths proofs" of God but if you swallow some pride you'll get there in the end. Good luck.
The function and objective of math is to convey an understanding. The answer in any mathematical equation immediately implies a limitation - unless you introduce an unknown, the "x factor." Then we are back to square one - God=The Unknown.
We are certainly blessed on HPs to have so many atheists who claim to be of Einsteins stature. I look forward to seeing such geniuses all collect their Nobel prizes in the future when they successfully disprove M theory. Either that or are they in serious denial. Who knows. Only time and space will tell.
This shows the limitation of your mind: the presumption there must be something akin to a person "who" created humans and the universe.
You are free to have such a point of view, but please understand in doing so you thereby place limitations upon the god in your mind.
Please read what the inventors of M theory have recently announced regarding their own maths proofs of God's existence. Otherwise it's pointless to argue with the ill informed or those who are in denial. Do the homework and read the articles and public announcements and then make a comment. Thanks.
You limit yourself with that statement. A 'person' couldn't adequately describe a creator of the magnificence of the universe.
In Theological and Mythology, I can not imagine setting up any kind of mathematical or scienctfic chart toward any one Religion. It keeps getting lost in space, place and time with very little good sense or sound reasoning for all.
Math would be the best way to communicate with other aliens at first. These aliens better be Catholic or many more people will have a lot of hell to pay for.
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