On the one hand, they were murderers so they should go to Hell, but on the other hand their actions were necessary in order for Christianity to come into existence so they should go to Heaven. If you are Christian and believe that Christianity is the one true religion, then what do you think happened to Jesus's executioners?
If such a person as Christ ever existed and the story had any credibility then - Of course they weren't murderers - any more than state employees who lethally inject for the death penalty are murderers. Similar - it is not possible to accuse the 'Jews' for the actions of its government any more than any one ordinary unconnected US citizen can be blamed for the one million dead in Vietnam at US hands.
It was slightly different from what you are referring to. You see Jesus was proven to be an innocent man, caesar or pontius pilate washed their hands literally of him, but the Jews demanded that he should be killed. Eventually Pilate found another way of pleading to the people, it was custom that on the passover the crowd could ask for a criminal to be released. On this account it was a man named Jesus Barabus, who was a convicted murderer. Pilate replied "don't you want me to release your king Jesus Christ" and they shouted "we have no king but caesar"..The he replied "what do you want me to do with your king" impale him said the crowd and release Jesus Barabus the murderer.
The then sealed their fate when they said "let his blood be upon us and upon our children"
Maybe that's where the saying "be careful what you wish for" came from..
Are you suggesting that the holocaust was the result of events played out in the New Testament?
No as thousands of Jehovahs Witnesses as well as Jews suffered during the holocaust. What I meant was, because of this act, they are no longer Gods chosen people. Of course this doesn't mean that somebody who is Jewish would not be recognised if they accepted Christ. It means that they as a nation have lost Yahweh/Jehovahs favour for rejecting the promised messiah.
The 'story' does not change anything. The executioners were supposed to be soldiers and so just doing a job.
The story does not change anything. The Jews as a whole people cannot be blamed for executing somebody any more than you can be personally blamed for all the millions of deaths America has caused in Vietnam, Iraq and countless other places around the world.
I was asked to give an example of any future prophesies, I can't give part of it.
The bible is a book of prophesy and we are approaching the most important and final one. Those without Holy Spirit will not understand, for the ruler of this system has blinded their eyes of the unbelievers so that the glorious good news might not be seen.
Just as a matter of interest - why do so many with the Holy Spirit need to hide behind a fake user name and image?
Are you scared of something?
You're late! It's almost noon here! Good evening, Mr. Knowles.
I'm not hiding, as we are talking about Jesus I thought the picture was appropriate. Many on here have various pictures even atheists. The Holy Spirit is free to all those who seek truth. I am not scared of what I can see, but have a battle with that which I can't see.
Didn't really answer the question did you? Why the need to hide your identity? A lot of people who claim to be speaking for the Holy Spirit seem to do that. I wondered why.
this is just outdeated anti-semitic tripe -- it's based on NOTHING more than extremely biased writings hundreds of yerars after the fact and was used by the catholic church for rmany centuries afterwards - even by the gospel's account, jesus wwas judged by rome and found GUILTY. rome tried, condemned and executed him.
If it's just Anti Semitic tripe, then why do the Zionists, take their roll as being the chosen people so seriously, why did they organise the re-settlement of the Jews back to Jerusalem? Why are they planning on building the third temple of Solomon? Why have they gathered a levite priest hood and made a solid gold menorah to go inside the temple?...Do you think they have spent thousands of years and billions on manouvering war tactics for
the fun of it? They are waiting for their own fulfilment of scripture they are awaiting their own Messiah, trust me there is no way around this it's all part of bible prophesy just some are too blind to see it.
many people have followed false prophecies and had visions of themseleves as a chosen people - none of that makes a myth true. reality isnt decided by a majority vote. and of course, if the Jews are right, then christians, especially fundamentalist ones have been wrong for 2000 yeears!
you still havent provided ONE concrete, definitive prophecy that was written before the fact
The Bible says there will be false prophets, that will do many signs and wonders. Nostradamus was a prophet but he wasn't a Christian so where did he get his abilities from?
Who said the Jews are right? because they control the world behind the scenes doesn't mean they are right, it means the Bibles prophesy concerning them is right. You don't have to believe in God to see that something very intense is happening in the middle east, and with Israel, this all revolves around religion.. WHY? Evil-ution is a cover up and a distraction from what is really going on. Has you got concrete evidence? no I don't think so only that from HIS--TORY.
No they are asleep in their graves awaiting resurrection.
Hi Disappearinghead, I know that they are asleep in their graves, but do you really think that they will get a resurrection? If so could you please quote the scripture which states this. As I thought there was a scripture which said "that there was more hope for those were in sodom and gomorra than for those who denied the Christ. Thank you..
and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.
The Son of Man indeed goes just as it is written of Him, but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been good for that man if he had not been born. (this may refer to Judas)
31 Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men. 32 Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.
The Pharisees blasphemed against the Holy Spirit by falsely attributing the miraculous works performed by Jesus Christ through the Holy Spirit to the works of demons. Jesus says that the sins of these unbelieving Pharisees will not be forgiven during ‘this age’, which was the age when Jesus was alive, nor will their sins be forgiven during ‘the age to come’, meaning the next age (the present age) after Jesus was resurrected. In other words, these unbelieving Pharisees all died unforgiven. However, please note that the sin of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit remains unforgiven for ‘this age’ and ‘the age to come’ only, but not forever.
"All unbelievers will be humbled and repent during the Lake of Fire Judgement Age, and all of them will be forgiven, as explained in Chapter 12. Remember, Jesus Christ died to forgive the sins of the whole world. Also, Jesus’ last and most important prayer to Father God, before He died on the cross, was to ask for the forgiveness of all those who were in agreement to crucify Him. No doubt, the Pharisees who blasphemed against the Holy Spirit are also included in that group, and they will repent, be forgiven, and be reconciled to God in the Lake of Fire Judgement Age, and enter the Kingdom of God"Hebrews 10:26-27
26 For if we sin deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a fearful prospect of judgment, and a fury of fire which will consume the adversaries.
God views a man as ‘sinning deliberately’ when he rejects the truth of the Gospel that Jesus Christ is indeed the Saviour of the whole world, after having this truth clearly pointed out to him. Such people who ‘sin deliberately’ are accountable and they will have to face fiery judgement in God’s consuming, refining Lake of Fire before they are reconciled to God. God’s Lake of Fire judgement for all unbelievers will be a fearful judgement, but it will not be eternal torment in hell. It will be an age-lasting, humbling and refining judgement from a loving Father who chastises His rebellious children to bring them to repentance. Ultimately, in God’s time and His order, all will be reconciled to God and all will enter the Eternal Kingdom of God of the New Heaven and the New Earth.
From this research it seems that there will be like you said, a resurrection of the righteous and unrighteous and each will be judged according to their repentance and acknowledgement of Christ as king.
Reading this made me really appreciate the loving kindness of Christ, and of course he will be the one doing the judging.
sort of biased research since you only quote christian sources written many decades after the actual events
casoly, why would I quote from any other source? When the bible itself has been proven it's accuracy. Many of the scriptures quoted are future events prophesies which must take place.
The only proving the bible has been subject to is to prove that NO evidence for any of the 'story' of any kind - background events can be verified but not even the existence of a Jesus can be verified beyond the mention of many prweachers wandering the area called Jesus which was a common name. The magical stuff cannot be verified in any way , except in the story book. The proven NOT TRUE is a bit more substantial as Bethlehem was not even a settlement until over 100 years after the story date.
Scholars agree that Jesus was born between 7 and 2 BC and died 30–36 AD. Most scholars hold that Jesus lived in Galilee and Judea, did not preach or study elsewhere. What you have to understand, is that when the Romans destroyed the temple all birth and death records were destroyed.
The British Museum has published a book which include numerous inscribed objects, scripts and pictorial reliefs which provide such evidence. There is, for example, a Babylonian clay tablet which records Nebuchadnezzar's siege of Jerusalem in 597 BC, as narrated in the book of Jeremiah. For this book the author has selected over seventy such 'documents', mainly from Western Asia, with some examples included from Greece, Egypt and Asia Minor, dating from the period of the Patriarchs to the New Testament times, c. 2000 BC to c. AD 100. He transliterates and translates the ancient texts, which include Cuneiform, Aramaic and Hebrew, and discusses the contribution they make to our knowledge of the culture and history of biblical times. Each object is illustrated in black and white.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nabonidus_Chronicle
The Dead Sea Scrolls provides loads of evidence with prophesies about the messiah. http://christiananswers.net/q-abr/abr-a023.html
This is simply not true. Scholars agree that there is no evidence at all for the existence of Jesus outside the bible.
Please stop spreading this misinformation. Thanks.
No evidence at all. None.
If you read what I had written properly you would have understood. There is dead sea scrolls, the Nabinidus Chronicle which is a huge stone artifact which contains the same information as the bible, which includes confirmed prophesies, such as the world powers, rise and fall of kingdoms. The accuracy is spot on, so why should not the prophesies about Jesus be the same. As I said ALL birth and death records were deliberately destroyed by the Romans. Hence the reason why Jews can't trace their lineage back to Solomon or King David. Even though Queen Elizabeth likes to make known that she is from the Royal line of David through Christ Jesus.
I understood just fine thanks. You said scholars agree on the birth place and date of Jesus. This is a lie. Seeing as you just told me the Romans destroyed all evidence - how can anyone agree?
There is no evidence. None.
As for the nonsensical prophecies - please don't insult my intelligence by mentioning them again. Thanks.
1st, you fail basic logic - if i make 3 predictions and the first 2 are correct, that doesnt make my 3rd one correct
2. there was no such thing as hall of records in the temple to be destroyed [among the many errors in the bible is the story about a census being conducted -- didnt happen]
3. the alleged predictions are so vague that the SAME prediction hasbeen claimed to foretell the mongols, napoleon and hitler!
if you have a precise, verifiable prediction, please show us
I was quoting from research from the British Museum, archeological evidence.
So from what source do you find your data? and how can you know it's accurate. There is so much that is about to change in the world of religion, and you won't have much choice to accept it or under go what happened during the inquisitions, don't say you haven't been warned. The Ecumenical movement along with the Zionists and Jesuits have great plans up their sleeves for even you atheists.
The Bible speaks about the great apostacy which will take place in the last days. It speaks about Babylon the great the religious harlot, who is drunk with the blood of the holy ones. It seems like Christianity will do the unthinkable and abandon Christian teachings as we know it for an alternative cocktail which will be pleasing to the masses. You realise that this is apostate christendom, because Revelations says that she was drunk with the blood of the prophets and of the holy ones. The catholic church with it's holy wars and inquisitions. It's burning of the faithful men like William Tilsdale, it's Jesuit infiltration along with it's softly softly approach with Hitler who was also a catholic. The catholic church is the mother of harlots along with her daughter religions who also take part in this ecumenical prostitution with pagan gods of the world.
Revelation 18:3 For all the nations have drunk the maddening wine of her adulteries. The kings of the earth committed adultery with her, and the merchants of the earth grew rich from her excessive luxuries."
Revelation 18;7 Give her as much torture and grief as the glory and luxury she gave herself. In her heart she boasts, 'I sit as queen; I am not a widow, and I will never mourn.'(Semiramis was the original Queen of Babylon, she was married to Nimrod the first to be a mighty hunter in opposition to Jehovah. Semiramis became a widow, this prophesy takes us full circle.
Revelation 18:14 Then I heard another voice from heaven say: "Come out of her, MY PEOPLE, so that you will not share in her sins, so that you will not receive any of her plagues;
Revelation 18:5 for her sins have piled up as high as heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities.
Revelation 17:4 The woman was dressed in purple and scarlet, and was glittering with gold, precious stones and pearls. She held a golden cup in her hand, filled with abominable things and the filth of her adulteries.
Revelation 18;18 Therefore, these plagues will overtake her in a single day--death and mourning and famine. She will be completely consumed by fire, for the Lord God Jehovah who judges her is mighty."
Revelation 17;16 The beast and the ten horns you saw will hate the prostitute. They will bring her to ruin and leave her naked; they will eat her flesh and burn her with fire.
Revelation 18:2 The sound of harps, singers, flutes, and trumpets will never be heard in you again. No craftsmen and no trades will ever be found in you again. The sound of the mill will never be heard in you again.
Revelation 18.:23 The light of a lamp will never shine in you again. The happy voices of brides and grooms will never be heard in you again. For your merchants were the greatest in the world, and you deceived the nations with your sorceries.
Revelation 18;24 In her was found the blood of prophets and of the saints, and of all who have been killed on the earth."
Revelation 17:17 For God has put a plan into their minds, a plan that will carry out his purposes. They will agree to give their authority to the scarlet beast, and so the words of God will be fulfilled.
So God puts the plan into the wild beasts mind (New World Order) to carry out his own plan. Just as the harlot thinks she is reigning..the governments will turn on her and strip of her wealth and burn her to the ground. Then let the battle commence. This is why so many people will be misled and not know the way out. May I say this is already in process.
Oh here we go - having failed to provide any sensible arguments and been proven wrong on every count - you start spewing babble by the truckload
just random, general gibberish., like most prophecy, easily re-interpretted after the fact. you still havent shown ONE actual precis3e prediction that was made BEFORE the events happened [the gospels et al were all written AFTER the destructuion of the temple in 70 CE ]
ROFLMAO -- i dont usually get into bible accuracy debates 'cause it's so easy to point out the many errors - as far as predicitons, they're usually so vague they can mean anything
i prefer facts and reason to fairy stories and myths
Queen Elizabeth, The Black pope the most powerful man on earth, all believe in Christ Jesus, the queen even says she is from the Royal line of Judah..Why would such powerful individuals make up a lie spanning many thousands of years? Just like the fairy tail of an ass's jaw being part of pre-historic man, tell me what is fact?
To keep power over the ignorant masses?
Soon they will do away with religion as we know it, with a free for all ecumenical belief system, so what purpose to the masses will that serve?
Shikinah you appear to support universal reconciliation/salvation. If so then I think we are in agreement. I have also come to pretty much the same conclusion as yourself regarding the LoF.
unless you have been there, it would be a bit difficult to explain..I know the bible says that hell, hades and sheol are all the same and mean the common grave of mankind.
Why can't you just admit you have no clue?
So therefore there is no avoiding hell as we all die and our bodies go to the grave. There is no avoiding heaven which seems in your case to be a process of dying. So the woman in the opening post, would go to heaven and hell.
Now thats very interesting, it seems that nearly every one will go to hell. The bible says that during the battle of armageddon that some people will survive and not face death at all. But get to eat from the tree of everlasting life.
It also says that not every one will see heaven only 144,000 who reign will christ will. The rest who are asleep will be resurrected on earth, during Christs thousand year reign.
The other interesting thing is that there are over a million Christians and not all will go to heaven because apparently there is only room for 144000 in heaven.
So the premise that all who believe in Jesus will go to heaven or be saved is false.
Perhaps eternal life and heaven do not go together?
From my studying of the bible, humans were never originally created to die and live in heaven, but to populate the Earth and who knows with time perhaps more Earths through out the universe. When we say the Lords prayer
we pray "Thy kingdom come thy will be done on EARTH as it is in Heaven. So it's Gods will through Christ Jesus to bring the Earth back to what it was intended for. Yes those who do his will have the chance to re-gain everlasting life to perfection the same as our original parents. The 144,000 kings and priests will be joint heirs with Christ and be judges of those who come back in the resurrection.
Isaiah 65:22-23 No longer will they build houses and others live in them, or plant and others eat. For as the days of a tree, so will be the days of my people; my chosen ones will long enjoy the works of their hands. They shall not labour in vain, nor bring forth for trouble; for they are the seed of the blessed of the LORD, and their offspring with them.
Revelation 21:3-5 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away.” He who was seated on the throne said, "I am making everything new!" Then he said, "Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true."
That is news to me that Humans were never created to die? After being made in the image of God, the bible clearly states we were then made of dust and that we will return to dust. So there is the temporary (dust) and the eternal aspect of that which we are.
So you do not see heaven on earth already? Do you not know God is within already?
The revelations passage you quote is pointing to some who have already attained that state of being in this life. It makes sense then that it is not a future event. It has and is already occurring.
Interesting, one set of scriptures states we're made from water while another dust. Good thing science came along to dispel the nonsense in all scriptures.
Oh please they are the very ones that reinforce what we are made of. How do they dispel our organic make up pray tell?
A troubled man, where did you read we are made from water? If the bible says that does it mean it is wrong? Its obvious that to mould a man from the earth water is needed. But the earth has every mineral content in it, which is in our biochemical make up. We have enough iron to make one iron nail. So earth and the breath of life was most significant. The bible is way ahead of it's time scientifically, in Leviticus the scriptures state that hands should be washed after touching the dead and before delivering a baby because of disease. It took Louis Pasteur till the late 19th century to discover the existence of Bacteria etc..Here is a great article with scientific evidence from the bible.
You are correct some who have already died which the Bible calls Christs brothers or the anointed, are already in heaven, as the scriptures say they will be changed in "twinkling of an eye"..
If we go right back to the start of creation, we can see that people lived to extremely old age ,Methuselah the son of Enoch died at 969 years of age. As time went by and sin more engrained our life span has been reduced.
Yes the scriptures say that Christ is within us, I guess that's from the start of creation when the firtst breath of life was his active force.
As for heaven on earth now, I see very little of it..the Bible says this is not the real life. How can we have heaven on earth when satan is the God of this system of things? The Heavenly kingdom reigning on Earth is a future event, one which we pray for constantly when we recite the Lords prayer or
"our father" .
It is something I'm sure I'll see in my life time, as prophesy and world events are unfolding and fulfilling scripture. What a great hope for those with faith and can see why Christ Jesus is the sacred secret. Only by him will we be restored to our original condition and understand the TRUE meaning of life..
2 Corinthians 4:4 Satan, who is the god of this world, has blinded the minds of those who don't believe. They are unable to see the glorious light of the Good News. They don't understand this message about the glory of Christ, who is the exact likeness of God.
John 12:31 Now is the time for judgment on this world; now the prince of this world will be driven out.
Revelation 12:12 Therefore, rejoice, O heavens and you who reside in them! But woe to you, O earth and the sea, for the devil has come down to you in great anger, knowing he has a short period of time!”
I see it differently in that Satan is not a separate entity as some might think. It is that which blinds us for sure as Corinthians says. It blinds us from seeing that which we truly are. It is that which clings to the dual nature of our world that is temporary in nature and forever changing. Because of these blinds we often fail to see the eternal aspect of who we are because of this clinging (amongst other things) to the things of this world. Especially our bodies. When the blinds have been removed even part thereof life as we know it will change. We are already at the stage where blinds are slowly being removed.
I'm sorry but I'm lost..so if satan is not a separate entity and not a spirit/angelic being, you see it as an "it"? what is this clinging? Are you of the teaching that there is no evil or devil? Just trying to get my head around it..
Haha, sorry. I will try and make it clearer. No there is evil and good dually speaking.
The 'it' is commonly referred to as ego. It is that part of the mind that clings to the things of this world and is the cause of much misery and suffering that mankind experience internally. Whatever is experienced internally is reflected in our external world. As above so below type thing.
Normally the ego is driven by fear of annihilation to a greater or lesser degree and so exhibits many of the seven deadly sins amongst other things in an attempt to escape this perceived annihilation. Perhaps that is why our ancients referred to it as God of this world. Throughout history there are many examples of egos reign over men.
As the blinds metaphorically speaking are being lifted the other part of the mind (that has always been there) and the ego are beginning to merge. The perception once held by the ego is slowly but surely changing.
When Jesus was crucified and resurrected, He fulfilled the righteous requirements of the Old Testament law and from that point whoever repents and trusts in Jesus has eternal life. So to answer the question you asked, I would say that those who crucified Jesus had the same opportunity for salvation as anyone else.
Jesus was crucified by the Romans at the desire of the Jews. I guess the Romans were ignorant in the sense that they were not seeking the Christ as their Messiah, where as the Jews were fully aware of the prophesies, they personally witnessed the miracles etc..I know the bible speaks of a resurrection of the good and the bad at the end of Christs thousand year reign, but I can't see how Christ would set him self up in a position to be rejected for the second time. From what I can see they had their chance and blew it :-(
They went to a hell (or heaven) that their religion (which obviously wasn't Christianity) supplied them.
Boy this Christianity thing sure is confusing. I'm too dumb for it. I guess only smart people can go to heaven.
If Jesus forgave those who crucified him, then they are forgiven and not condemed. Luke 23:34 "Father forgive them for they know not what they do."
did they repent though.? Or did they get a free pass? The fact that jesus forgave those who crucified him, says a lot about his merciful and loving nature, and attitude even towards those of us who don't deserve it.
But it doesn't say anything about their mindset. That is what repentance is to me. A change of mindset. Or the formation of a mindset that leaves room for God. Even the least bit.
besides the fact that as beckett points out in Waiting for GOdot, only ONE of the 4 gospels says the thieves asked for mercy -- the others either just said they ridculed him or they were silent -- how can 4 'words of god' differ on so fundamental an issue?
yet everyone quotes the source that THREE other sources deny!
Cascoly...Have you ever heard of sodom and gomorrah? Well God prophesied that the two cities would be destroyed with sulphur and fire and that nothing would ever grow there again. Archeologists believe that the area called the dead sea is where these two cities once stood, sulphur balls of immense size has been discovered and nothing lives in the dead sea. Archeologists have recently found the wheel of pharos chariot at the bottom of the red see, which moses parted. Any way I'm not here to convince those who just about believe their own reflection, as God said "They will have to know that I am Jehovah"
god did no such thing -- the bible stories were written AFTER the fact; besides which there's considerable doubt about the fate of S&G in the first place
as far as the 'recent' chariot wheel, that's just more old regurgitated nonsense:
"Much of this eRumor is based on the findings of Ron Wyatt, a colorful and controversial amateur archeologist who claimed to have found Noah's ark, the Biblical Ark of the Covenant, the location of Sodom And Gomorrah, the Tower of Babel, the true site of Mt. Sinai, the true site of the crucifixion of Jesus, and the original stones of the Ten Commandments. He was a passionate and sincere man, according to his supporters, but his critics abound and scientists and archeologists regarded him as an untrained maverick at best and there are some who regarded his as a fraud. Wyatt died from cancer in 1999."
http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/c/ … wheels.htm
I'm not talking about Ron Wyatt the Seventh Day Adventist. Are you saying that all of the so called findings of the missing link proves evolution? So if you don't believe in creation what do you believe in? Or do you believe in Zachariah Sitchins theory that we were seeded by aliens?
well, you were quoting wyatt's false claims [if not, what WAS your source for the RED [not dead] sea chariots?
as far as evolution, that's completely off topic, but your opinions on evolution are probably already answered in http://cascoly.hubpages.com/hub/Top-10- … -Evolution
evolution is a fact and is the basis for all modern biology. the origin of life such as panspermia at least has the POSSIBILITY of being true - unlike the bible's fairy story about creation in 7 days, light being created BEFORE the sun and moon [sic], etc, etc
You obviously do not understand the bible and it's time in relation to the creator. The bible says one day is a thousand years to the creator, so the earth was made in sixth thousand years, the seventh is his rest day not from exhaustion but preparing for the completion of the seventh. Like Miltons poetical works "Paradise Lost To Paradise Regained"
Who said evolution is a fact? just because a few weird skulls have been found does not mean that evolution existed. There is a great cover up about mans history and the elite of this world wish to keep it that way. The bible explains that a species once walked this earth, who were called the Nephilim. They were hybrid off spring from fallen angel with human women. This union produced giants and malformed types at that. Skeletons of these have been fund even valleys. I believe species can adapt to change but a monkey change to a human is impossible, if this is true why hasn't any other species of monkey over the millions of years show us any form of evolvement perhaps say a word or two? The bible clearly says each kind to its own kind, because humans have a different genetic make up. An ape cant reproduce with a human for this very reason.
And do you know what the next jump in evil-oution is suppose to be? That we are now entering the age of Aquarius and we are now evolving to a spiritual level where we will be GODS, so there is no creator we are the Gods amazing lol..
why 1000 and not 1002 or 5212 years per day? this is just a nonsensical attempt to make the bible agree with reality - but 6000 years is still so far from the1.5 BILLION that it's just laughable
ROFLMAO -- all your repsonses, as predicted, are already debunked in my hub referenced earlier
Am I God, to determine what time span he creates in? So what do you believe
in? as you haven't actually stated exactly..all your responses are also predictable, you haven't answered any points I put forward, just mock and give sarcastic remarks which is also typical.
Why, are you feeling a strong urge to 'believe in' someone?
He was asking you questions, to answer that why do you want to know what he believe in?
When you are raped by a fallen angel, where else are to turn to for answers? I wanted to know what he believed in as he was on a hub which was about Jesus and forgiveness.
Sorry I do not understand you. Angels don't rape only humans do. If you are raped (I'm sorry to hear that), it is better to take a psychiatrist's or a psychtherapist's help than believing in lies.
He was asking about a clear proper prediction, you do not need his 'beliefs' to answer that.
you havent MADE any points - just a bunch of bible quotes that you then claim prove the bible is true
the ONLY polite response to such willful ignorance is humor
I make Bible quotes as this is what the subject is based upon, while you make quotes from information provided by imperfect man..so whats your point..
Any sane thinking mind will know evolution is a fact after understanding the postulates and examining the evidence.
That is just conspiracy garbage.
Sorry, but there is no evidence for the fantasy of fallen angels and women's offspring of giants, the bible is obviously wrong about that.
Monkeys did not evolve into humans, that is nonsense. Monkeys and humans shared a common ancestor.
Sorry, but humans and chimps share 99% DNA. The bible is wrong again.
The bible is not talking gibberish as I have personally experienced what fallen angels are capable of.. Have you ever heard of the film the ENTITY..well that's what happened to me after I received Reiki healing. Not only that but my partner at the time saw this spirit creature also. Hence my passion for the Bible and the warnings it gives us.
That is an obvious fabrication, please seek professional help for your hallucinations.
Better take your partner with you, too.
What reason have I to lie, two people who witness something at the same time cannot be hallucinating. It's so sad that people are so blind to the evilness which exists in this world...Or do you believe there is no such thing as evil?
It is not a lie in the usual sense of the word, but if a lie is misstating a misunderstood situation it is a lie.
Yes two persons can hallucinate together in peculiar situations.
Good and evil are relative. What is good for you might be evil to me. Say, eating pork is good for Christians, evil for Muslims.
wrong yet again - crowd hysteria and hallucinations are well documented
my personal beliefs have nothing to do with your claims that the bible is true. if yoju only evidence for the bible's literal truth is your personal experience then you should have saved us all a lot of time by saying so at the start. that was not your initial claim
There are plenty of reasons, but they are irrelevant to the fact. Dishonesty abounds with believers.
There is only one person here, not two.
That is irrelevant to your fairy tale of angels raping women.
i accept your claim of personal experience - what i dont accept is the conclusion you draw from it; there are other, more likely explanations that dont require a supernatural explanation
It's a long story, which just doesn't involve me but friends of mine also, all who had been involved with the New Age. At least 5 people had been affected. After receiving reiki I gained the power to heal, while other started to have visions and wanted me to start a religion. A very strange sequence of events came about which started to confirm this. Even being followed by a Rabbi in a bentley who would ask me strange questions, yes it sounds crazy and I don't expect anyone to believe me. But when I refused to carry out this assignment and turn to the Bible, that's when this entity turned on me and attacked me. What I endured was living hell on earth and I wouldn't
wish it on any one. I did further research and found out I'm from a line of Irish pagan kings who were inaugerated and married a spirit being called Maeve on a hill called Tara..Wether the two are linked I don't know. But Prayer to Yahweh/Jehovah in the name of Jesus Christ helped rid me of the torture. I am relating this so that others do not get involved in the New Age religion. The Bible clearly warns us to stay away from divination and the occult. They may use the name Christ but it is not Yeshuah/Jesus Christ of the Bible, but there light bearer christ.
So just how many amputees have you healed? If you haven't, then, WHY?
I agree, this sounds completely insane.
You probably experienced night terrors, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_terror
Or a psychotic episode. I certainly see some paranoia. Personally, I would wish this on no one, but it is a chemical imbalance, not demons or devils. Those things are imaginary, and foolish.
Maybe you should seek help from trained professionals, instead of believing in myths and magic. This is disturbing!
Yes, but remember that they asked his blood be upon them and their children which history shows to be a people that were scattered all over the world but they are the one people that has never lost their identity but what about the Roman leader that stated "Truly this was the son of God"?
I believe if they repented, God forgive them because in Jesus' final words on the Cross, He is quoted as saying, "Father forgive them for they know not what they do." Christ put them in position to be forgiven by the Father. On ther slip side, it is so very important that we too practice forgiveness of those who hurt or bring harm to us. This blesses me because I am not perfect and each day of my life I need the forgiveness of God. If Christ can forgive those who burtially tortured Him, surely God give us power to forgive one another.
Who knows? The ascension of anyone to Heaven, if it exists, is undocumented. Not to mention, this particular instance is over 2000 years ago.
Though I suppose, apparently, if you ask forgiveness, you can get into Heaven. They may have asked forgiveness.
On the first part of the journey,
I was looking at all the life...
How do you know what fallen angels or demons do...The bible says we have a battle not with flesh and blood but with the principalities of the air..the spirit forces which control the world.
Because there are no angels or demons except in stories. The bible made so many mistakes, so? Bible is not a history book it is a collection of stories to educate morals to the society of that time. There were stories about vampires in my place, there were vampire sitings a hundred years before and people really believed vampires were real, till they got electricity and drugs. Now they recognize what the stories were-a myth.
Well that's your opinion but I'm speaking from experience and have even heard of experiences from other people. So what about poltergeists, Ufo's and other things which do not seem of this earth, are these all contrived by mental people? The bible says the best thing the devil has done is make people believe he doesn't exist.. And it's worrying that so many are really deluded to the real truth and cannot see how the changes which are taking place.
I never said mental people, but if you say so regarding my mention of psychiatrist I want you to know that that has nothing to do with anybody being mental. To be a rape victim is a horrible situation, so a professional help is always good to cope with such a stress situation.
Now, one does not need to be mental to hallucinate. We are humans, we try to put things into a pattern so that we can make a meaning out of a situation. When our mind do tricks on us to familiarize the most unfamiliar situations and try connecting non connected events we see things which we haven't seen and believe we really saw it. So experience has no value, it is a subjective feeling based on our rearing, brain structure and the environment we were brought up and we are currently in.
true, there are many unexplained phenomena, but a resort to the supernatural is unnecessary in many of them -- UFOs, sasquatch, yeti, possibly even some psychic powers would not defy scientific laws - they're just extremely unlikely given our current evidence
ghosts, fairies and gods however would completely toss out science, so before accepting their existence something more is required thana 2000 year old fairy tale
just out of curiosity why 666?
I'm not talking about eating pork..I'm talking about satanic rituals etc.. that which does physical and mental harm to an individual.
Oh I only wanted riddle, but that was unavailable, so I just took the available catchy number.
Rituals are also varying, what I do is divine and what my enemy does is satanic. A ritual by itself doesn't cause harm, it is the mind set of those who participate that does harm.
It's quite straight forward, there are satanic lodges which practice human sacrifice and satanic ritual abuse in the name of lucifer. We have the United Nations who have a ritual prayer room, and follow religious instructions from the Lucis trust formally known as the lucifer trust.. How comes those who rule the world believe in the one who the Bible says is the God of this world if it is just some fairy tale?
There are a group of aborigines on the Andaman island of India called Jarawas who still kill and eat humans if they get one, without the help of any Lucifer.
I do not know whether what you say about the lodges or UN true. If true about the lodges, if they does that either the law is not working or they are mentally deranged persons. Regarding UN, the people on top who does that might be as religious as you are. Just because the Jews(and their bible) condemn Lucifer, does not make him evil. Jews always condemned their enemies and their gods and painted them in the worst possible way. The term Lucifer means light bearer and probably one among the gods of pagans. Christians when possible killed pagans and are demonising them even now, a probable reason why it's worshippers do not want to publicize themselves.
Ignorance is completely different to those who live in the so called civilised world. You yourself said lucifer is the "light bearer" and believe perhaps he wasn't evil. Funny enough the UN also worship the Matraiya the Light Bearer, the one Yeshuah condemned, and said to the Jews "you are like your father lucifer/devil". The thing is the zionist are also waiting for this light bearer. So for someone who is merely a fairy tale from a fictional book, he has quite a huge following.
What I said is the name 'Lucifer'means light bearer and in all probability a pagan god, hence the condemnation by Jews. Jews and Christians are always calling their rivals devil.
As another fairytale 'Jesus' has more followers than anyone in history, it is no wonder that a pagan mythical god also has some followers. The pagans are more decent group of people to condemn their enemies as devils, if not, for them your Yahweh who killed humans in flood certainly would be devil.
Do you have objective evidence to prove THE DEVIL existence? If so, let's see it. If not, your statement lacks any REAL meaning at all.
For the fact that so many worship him, even those that control your fate what more proof do you need.
Instead of responding with, what I consider, simple nonsense, why don't you show some REAL evidence? By your logic, many leaders can begin to worship Rumpelstiltskin...hence, suddenly, Rumpelstiltskin becomes real.
All you have as "evidence" is a whimsical, childish fairy tale.
I agree, but it's a GREAT analogy of these silly beliefs. Glad you, too, see how silly they are. Of course, if you don't see how silly they are, then defend this silly fairy tale in the face of reason. Just stating that something is "silly" is a mere cop-out.
Back up your assertions with tangible proof, or admit that this is a psychotic delusion, based in a childish primitive nonsensical fairy tale.
the founders of the US most definitely di not believe in the sort of god you describe. thomas jefferson even made a personal version of the bible in which he cut out all the superstitious malarkey
i'n sure the united nations may have a ritual prayer room [aka chapel or mediation room], but the rest of your claim is just rightwing conspiracy nonsense [have you dodged any black helicopters lately?]
again -where's the evidence to support your claim of human sacrifice?
The early founding fathers were interested in the Bible, but as usual apostasy infiltrates. People like Alice Bailey, Madam Blavatsky, Rothschilds along with Adam Weishaupt and various others fulfilled scripture, known as the "man of lawlessness" would help bring about a new world order along with a united religious order.
there you go again - please give evidence that anyone has been harmed by satanuic rituals in any supernatural way
What you have to understand, is that not many survive to tell their experience.
LOL.And, you do know? Notice you just admitted to lying.
Symbolically drinking the blood and eating the flesh of a savior is a very disturbing, and savage ritual.
Most likely they went to the same place others did prior to Jesus. Jesus didn't create heaven. You have had a lot of people died prior to Jesus, and at that time hell didnt exist. Christians created hell.
Jews dont go to hell, because there is no such thing.
Hell is an unbiblical pagan doctrine embraced and christianised by the Roman Catholic Church in the early centuries of Christianity, and made official when Jerome translated the Bible into Latin in 400 A.D.
The doctrine of everlasting punishment in hell is founded upon a combination of mistranslations and misinterpretations of the following Hebrew and Greek words.
Mistranslations of the Hebrew word sheol and the Greek words hades, tartarus and gehenna, to mean hell.
Mistranslations of the Hebrew word owlam and the Greek words aion and aionios, to mean forever or everlasting when relating to God’s judgement of unbelievers and fallen angels.
Actually Hades in Pagan beliefs is the underworld, and not at all similiar to the beliefs of the Christian Hell.
True.. Hades occurs 11 times in the original Greek Manuscripts of the New Testament and it is the direct equivalent of the Hebrew word sheol; thus it also means the grave or the pit. This is how most modern versions of the Bible translate hades.
Some Bible dictionaries give an added meaning to hades to mean ‘underworld’ or ‘the place or state of departed spirits’. But this meaning has been influenced by pagan Greek mythology and has no biblical basis.
I have done extensive reading of primary sources on the concept of the underworld. I found what I believe the be the origin of the Christian concept of hell, in an Egyptian myth known as The Am-Tuat. When I came across it, I was shocked at what I was reading. Keep in mind, I have never read a book or any literature on this subject. My observations are my own. I wrote a hub on this and since it is relevant to the topic, I will share the link. http://cam8510.hubpages.com/hub/Egyptia … istianity. It is a long article which I have edited several times, attempting to shorten it. There are tables which make comparisons between the myth and the biblical references. As a result of this study, I, who am a former Evangelical Christian, former pastor and former missionary, have renounced my belief in hell. As far as I am concerned, it is a concept borrowed from Egyptian mythology in its entirety.
Very interesting, The book the Two Babylons also covers a lot of misconceptions which was derived from Egyptian, Assyrian and Babylonian worship.
As a former Evangelical Christian, layman, missionary and pastor, and as a lifelong student of the Bible, I'll take a stab at this. When Jesus was hanging on the Cross, He said, "Father, forgive them for they know not what they do." Jesus was simply voicing His inner feelings. The meaning of His words were "Father, be willing to forgive them if they ever repent and ask for salvation in my name." The fact is that the Bible makes it clear that each person must repent and call on Jesus for salvation. If anyone involved in Jesus' death, whether Jew or Roman, guard or Governor, Roman citizen or lowly peasant, called on the name of Jesus and repented of their sins, they would be saved and go to heaven. That is simply the New Testament teaching on the subject. The alternative to heaven, of course, is hell. At least that is what the New Testament teaches. I don't buy the concept of hell any longer. If one were to visit my profile, it is possible that they might discover something written along the lines of the origin of the concept of hell. I'm not suggesting you look, but just so you know.
one of my favorite dialogues is from Waiting for Godot:
And yet . . . (pause) . . . how is it –this is not boring you I hope– how is it that of the four Evangelists only one speaks of a thief being saved. The four of them were there –or thereabouts– and only one speaks of a thief being saved. (Pause.) Come on, Gogo, return the ball, can't you, once in a way?
(with exaggerated enthusiasm). I find this really most extraordinarily interesting.
One out of four. Of the other three, two don't mention any thieves at all and the third says that both of them abused him.
What's all this about? Abused who?
Because he wouldn't save them.
Imbecile! From death.
I thought you said hell.
From death, from death.
Well what of it?
Then the two of them must have been damned.
And why not?
But one of the four says that one of the two was saved.
Well? They don't agree and that's all there is to it.
But all four were there. And only one speaks of a thief being saved. Why believe him rather than the others?
Who believes him?
Everybody. It's the only version they know.
People are bloody ignorant apes.
ask your friends, believers or not, and you'll get the common answer that at least 1 thief was saved -- it's an interesting example of how opinions and 'common knowledge' are acquired, regardless of the particular facts involved
I am not a believer, but to me, the silence of three of the gospels on this point doesn't speak very loudly. It could be that, after verbally abusing Jesus, the one who was "saved" changed and asked for salvation by saying "Remember me when you get to heaven" (paraphrase).
The bible though written by imperfect man was borne along inspired by Holy Spirit.
It took 1,500 years to complete, written by over 40 authors and comprises of 66 books.
Written by kings, fishermen, lawyers, doctors, shepherds and the like, yet all have one theme, it provides guidance, wisdom, our purpose and the sacred secret to everlasting life. The church has fought to keep the bible in latin, burning martyrs at the stake. It is the most widely distributed book in the
world. Can that be said of anything else in existence?
Anyone could go out and compile a text made up of writings of various people. By careful selection and editing the complete text could unified in terms of viewpoint. Such a work could easily be handed from generation to generation so that more could be added. The biblical writers had the advantage of having a single culture from which to gather their writings. This added to consistency. When the New Testament picked up where the Hebrew writings left off, there was a distinct change in style, types of literature and content. The whole thing got the final once over when the Synod of Hippo consolidated both Old and New Testaments for the first time. The making of the Bible has only the fingerprints of man on it, in my opinion.
I like this and although written on three continents by different writers at different intervals of history, the amazing thing is that they all agreed in their writings. Can this be said of other historical archives?
Guess you have not read this book then? Hilarious how few have.
???? what are you talking about? even in the highly subjective & political selection today called the bible there are major historical errors, and disagreements -- starting with genesis, eg, where 2 completely different creation myths are jumbled together. the bible may be many things, but historically accurate and internally consistent are not on the llist
The Bible is advanced in many things, the bible said the earth was round and hung upon nothing while the rest of the world thought it was flat..if they read it they would have saved them selves alot of sailing around lol.
You may be surprised to learn that the Bible revealed that the earth is round. Job 26:10, Prov 8:27, Isaiah 40:22, Amos 9:6. Today, we chuckle at the people of the fifteenth century who feared sailing because they thought they would fall over the edge of the flat earth. Yet the Bible revealed the truth in 1000 B.C. 2500 years before man discovered it for himself!
Ah - another Liar for Jesus who has not read the bible.
Matthew Maury (1806-1873) is considered the father of oceanography. His daughter was reading a portion of the Bible to him. While listening, he noticed the expression "paths of the sea" in Psalms 8:8. Upon his recovery, Maury took God at his word and went look ing for these paths. We are indebted to his discovery of the warm and cold continental currents. His book on oceanography is still considered a basic text on the subject and is still used in universities. Maury used the Bible as a guide to scientific discovery. If only more would use the Bible as a guide in their personal lives!
Ah - you again! How many troll personas do you have?
I think we have enough self righteous ass holes myself.
nonsense - Humboldt had already discovered the ocean currents named after him, and sailors & traders had been using such currents for hundreds of years. so Maury didnt need the bible to show him anything - he just had to apply REAL science and advanced our knowledge. Maury didnt 'discover' the currents, he used existing records and logs to map the currents that people already knew existed.
yet another example of misquoting the bible's vague phrases while ignoring reality
No doubt there were other civilisations who used wind and bird navigation etc, but Maury was the first to bring it to light. The bible was descriptive about the sea's pathways which is mentioned in the Dead Sea Scrolls. Yes Humboldt discovered ocean currents also, whether he was the first is difficult to prove.
With respect none of those verses suggest a heliocentric spherical Earth. Imagine a flat disc world with the heavens stretched over as a dome, and the sun disappearing over the horizon to traverse the underside of the disc at night; and those verses support this view.
Read this for Biblical explanation
Interesting that you didn't even read your own link.
The last line sums it up.
"So, the "circle" of Isaiah 40:22 refers to the horizon of the earth, which is very obviously perceived as a circle since it can be seen in 360º from most anywhere on earth. In Ancient Near Eastern conceptions, this circle would refer to the flat earth disk, not to a sphere."
He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth,
and its people are like grasshoppers.
He stretches out the heavens like a canopy,
and spreads them out like a tent to live in.
He is giving the description which man can understand, it's humans which make whats simple complicated.
why would the ancient greeks measure the CIRCUMFERENCE of the world if they thought it was flat? flat earth only became common after the church amd its bible took over the Roman Empire!
and there are just as many bible quotes that indicate the earth is flat - like yyour quotes, they're all vague.
Job was an oriental and he wrote about the Earth not being flat long before Roman or greek empire or before the church. If I was to look up at the moon I would describe it as round or circular but definitely not flat, so why would those who wrote the bible describe the earth any different.
Correct. If you didn't know that the moon was in fact a sphere you might describe it as being round. The same holds true of the people who wrote the bible, they didn't know the earth was a sphere so they described it as being round. Now, if the scripture was inspired or written by God the correct words would have been used. This is just one more indication that the bible was written by bible with no knowledge other then the knowledge of their time.
None of those verses state the earth is round. Why are you lying about that?
Isaiah 40:22 It is he who sits above the CIRCLE of the earth, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers; who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, and spreads them like a tent to live in;
Job 26:10 He has inscribed a CIRCLE on the face of the waters at the boundary between light and darkness.
Job 22:14 Thick clouds are a secret place to Him, And He doth not see;' And the CIRCLE of the heavens He walketh habitually,
Prov 8:27 When he established the heavens, I was there, when he drew a CIRCLE on the face of the deep, 8:28 when he made firm the skies above, when he established the fountains of the deep, 8:29 when he assigned to the sea its limit, so that the waters might not transgress his command, when he marked out the foundations of the earth . .
Try reading the scripture that's a good start :-)
IT'S READING SCRIPTURE THAT BLOWS HOLES IN YOUR STATEMENTS!
you're just getting in deeper -- even the ancients knew the difference between A CIRCLE AND A SPHERE. A CIRCLE is FLAT and has boundaries. you CANNOT inscribe or draw a sphere on a surface! your quotes give support to the flat earth theory!
This should answer your question.
Biblical Hebrew word for “circle” (חוג—chuwg) can also mean “round” or “sphere.”
That is baloney, it's meaning is for a circle and is never referred to as a sphere.
In Isaiah 22:18 Yahveh "will turn and toss you like a ball" with the word for ball being (duwr) hence if the Bible were referring to Earth as a sphere, it would have used that term and not the term for a circle. Further back, we can trace the word (chuwg) back to its primary meaning, "a circle as drawn from a compass"
You can stop lying about this at any time.
Only two problems here
I checked 16 translations and only one translated it as globe while all others translated it as circle.
Second, you cannot place a tent over a sphere but only over a circle, and Isaiah says god put the heaven like a tent over the circle in the same sentence.
Because at that time it had never rained on the earth and it had a covering called the firmament which is not an actual tent as we know but a cloud mass of water which wrapped around the entire Earth.
I'm glad you and Troubled man pointed out my error, here is the correct explanation..
The Hebrew word Chug (חוג) means a flat-circle, while the Hebrew language does have a general word for sphere. Unlike English, Hebrew is gender specific(complicated grammar concept that almost never has anything to do with real gender). The version of “khoog” used in Isaiah 40:22 is masculine which happens to lean towards the spherical side, especially when compared to the feminine “round, circle, vault” definition.
Isaiah 40:22 He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in.
All that states is that the CIRCLE is a circular area of land and the tent covers that area.
Again, a circular area of land with a boundary on all sides.
That states the CIRCLE of the heavens, not the Earth. Can you not read?
Again, that is simply a circular area of land. If one stands in one spot and looks out towards the horizon on all sides, they have created a circular area of land.
Absolutely none of that describes a spherical earth, so you can stop lying about it.
Other translations say circuit of heavens, yes I made a mistake thinking it was talking about the earth.
Job 26:10 He has inscribed a CIRCLE on the face of the waters at the boundary between light and darkness.
If you are looking down on a round object you do not see the whole area do you? It is describing a circle of water and it's boundaries, if this description was good enough for Kings who lived their lives by Gods wisdom, who am I to judge.
May I just say as a practicing christian it is a sin to lie, as a lie is what got us in a mess in the first place. There's no need to lie when you have the word of God, as it speaks for it self.
Then, why are you compelled to continue lying about it?
A mistake or error is not a lie..as a Christian I will defend what I believe to be truth, if I find my information to be an error then I will admit that also. None of us are perfect troubled man.
Not sure if I can expound on that right now, but it maybe someone else would?
No way to know for sure if the people who carried out the crucifixion wound up in Heaven, but according to scripture, it is possible, and maybe even likely for some of them.
Luke 23:34 says: And Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do.” And they cast lots to divide his garments
Mark 15:39 says: And when the centurion, who stood facing him, saw that in this way he breathed his last, he said, “Truly this man was the Son of God!”
Looks like the "bad guys" were given two precious gifts by Christ himself: Forgiveness and Faith.
I believe that those who played a part in the crucifixion of Jesus will one day have to stand trial in the courts of the holy sit of New Jerusalem and they will then be sentenced too from there by almighty god with Jesus at this side.
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