HOW CAN MAN BE SAVE?
In an era where it is kind of difficult to differentiate between professed Christians and unbelievers, it is quite essential we have a study on the foundation upon which Christianity is built (which is Salvation) ... God's Plan for salvation is that man be reconciled with him through Christ Jesus and that we all become proper individuals beyond the 'professing' of our mouths but by the way we live our lives; even behind closed doors, and yet we still find ourselves dealing with faulty foundations of salvation; and so we ask?
How has man fallen and what is even Salvation?
What if man refuses to accept Christ? Is there anyway man can be saved without Christ?
People who have accepted Christ still find it difficult to be new creatures just like the Bible says and so on what grounds should man accept Christ?
And if it is true that man needs to be saved, thenNo, we do not need to be saved. Thanks.
We don't deal with faulty foundations of salvation because salvation isn't faulty. It is only us humans who are faulty, and who always will be until we die. We can be saved by believing in Jesus, giving our hearts to Him, confessing our sins, repenting, and worshipping Him who is perfect. We are imperfect creatures serving a perfect God/Jesus. We are only accounted as "perfect" because we've been covered in His perfect blood.
Please don't allow the naysayers to make you doubt.
Jesus was real, flesh and blood, plus He was God in the flesh.
He's not just a concept, an idea, a myth. He was sent by God to actually die for the sins of mankind, to give them an opportunity to accept Him.
Yes, we all need saving. I'm a "whosoever". Whosoever will believe in Him can be saved.
It's not about religion; it's simply about recognizing that God is God and we are humans, but that He loves us so much!!
Jesus is the only Way we can be saved.
He is not Buddha, Hari Krishna, the Pope, or anyone except who He is---------the Creator, the Alpha, the Omega, the Savior, the Holy Spirit.
It isn't difficult to be a new creature in His eyes!! He covers us with His own blood, protects us, counts us as perfect, claims us for Himself!
Yes, we will always be fallible. Yes, our attempts at becoming a "new creature" in our eyes is often a long road, a difficult one, a progressive one. Yes, we must always strive for that final salvation until we die, because we know we're fallible. But if we're sincere, He will give us the courage and strength to continue on the right path. He doesn't desert us. He may, however, leave us to ourselves if we desert Him.You roll your d20. If the result is 10 or over, you made your save. If it's 9 or lower, you failed. You can only make your save once per turn at the end of your turn.
Yes, a study on the foundations of Christianity would be illuminating and a good thing to do. Foundation stones like:
The mass murders and destruction of the Crusades
The torture and murder of thousands in the Inquisition
The murder of "witches" in Christ's name
The assumption that certain races are only semi-human and not deserving of acceptance.
The assumption and declaration that half the species is inferior and need not be treated as equals.
The foundation of Christianity is comprised mostly of force and killing of those not agreeing with the demands of TPTB. Thank goodness we have been saved from the horrors of the "saviors".
Has man "fallen"? Well, we eliminated those earlier atrocities, but there are many left. We're still working on the problem of gays (primarily opposed by those that would "save" us) and more work needs done on the immorality of treating women differently (again, mostly by the "saviors"). It would seem that man not only has not fallen but has risen above the "saviors" in case after case. Mostly dragging those "saviors" along willy, nilly, and against their shrieking protests, but dragging them along in the long run.
So you are going to have a tough time "saving" people using the foundations of Christianity. A better idea might be to put your own house in order first and then work on saving people. Learn that your belief in a centuries old myth holds no interest or value to many and quit trying to force it on people by physical force OR force of law. Learn to treat others equally, regardless of their belief. Learn that other belief systems are just as valid as your own and actually live that concept rather than just pay lip service to it. Learn that repression, murder and degradation of people is not acceptable to modern civilized societies whether your myth claims otherwise or not.
You just might, then, be a little more successful in getting people to believe in your myth instead of their own. Doubtful, but a better chance than saying one thing and living another.Humanity can be saved when it learns how not to be a collective asshat.
If Christianity can save people from being individual asshats and therefore contributing to the collective asshatery then I think that would be peachy.
Looking at the foundations of Christianity WOULD help, but only if you use them as examples of how NOT to act.
Unfortunately, finding Jesus has not removed the asshat tendency of any converts I've known. It just gives them a biblical excuse for their behavior... because, let's face it, any personality trait can be found to be God-like or biblical when you verse-mine.Q) How has man fallen and what is even Salvation?
A) Man have not fallen! Existence designed it so every lifeforce goes through the process of experiencing every conceivable type of experience on earth, it's controlled by karma and reincarnation and lived as every life type on earth before incarnating as man designed to live in civilizations. For that purpose the Tree Of The Knowledge Of Good And Evil, in the Adam metaphor, was established to cause man to like and dislike half of all things causing the many different emotional states we encounter. Therefore, salvation is when one has completed their earthen learning experiences, gone through a new birth or metamorphosis to obtain the powers the sons of god (Genesis 6:1-4) had and Jesus demonstrated (John 14:12).
Q) What if man refuses to accept Christ?
A) Once a man have completed their earthen experiences they can not refuse becoming anointed with the dominion powers of sons of god Jesus demonstrated, it's automatic and nothing anyone can do to start nor stop it. That's why Revelation 22:11 was written saying He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still, everyone is to continue doing whatever their life require of them.
Q) Is there anyway man can be saved without Christ?
A) Christ is only the Christian term for becoming anointed, to actually become a buddha is another and there are as many different terms for it as there are religions. Therefore, one can be saved without ever hearing the term christ because it is not any person they must know but a state of becoming by many other titles.
Q) People who have accepted Christ still find it difficult to be new creatures just like the Bible says and so on what grounds should man accept Christ?
A) Those who find it difficult to become a new creature have not actually been born again or gone through the metamorphosis, they are claiming something they don't know what it is to do. Therefore, no one can accept christ without becoming christ.Deleted
If I have to walk on water or change water to wine to be saved, I'm in trouble.
It's only because of your belief that you are in trouble, there's no hell nor lake of fire to go to, they are metaphors for civilization.
Fire is a purifier (see Daniel 12:10) and we continue to reincarnate on earth until we are actually born again with testimony of our conception, gestation, trivial, birth, childhood, adolescence and adulthood, if there be any, which is automatic once we have learned all our earthen experiences.
Hell is nothing more than the emotional agony we have because not being able to see that the concepts of good and evil are nothing more than concepts and not a reality.
Once we come to comprehend those facts life is a breeze on a summer's evening.So if I recognize that the concepts of good and evil are merely concepts then I can be Christ, walk on water and avoid emotional agony?
But I've known that for years and years, still can't walk across the lake to my favorite fishing hole and felt terrible over Sandy Hook Elementary.
I don't think your system works very well for me.But do you have a new birth with testimony of conception, gestation, trivial, birth, childhood, adolescence and/or adulthood? That is the first most important part of it, what we understand must be after the new birth.
Does one normally experience an orgasm before this New Birth?
If the answer to that is "Yes," then is it a real experience, or just a sort of "virtual" orgasm like one would get off Cyberspace?
If the Politics and the Religiousity that reigns in the United States were to get together, go through such an orgasmic revolution; then procreate throughout the world, that would END our world for evermore. No more worries, no more scandals, no more wars..... no more enjoying of a beautiful world like we have right now.
We had better get to enjoying it before it's too late.Deleted
There's no such thing as luck, it's my destiny for that to happen, I'm a 28 year adolescent awaiting adulthood when I'll be able to do what Jesus did (John 14:12).
Are you asking or telling us? The fact is simply this. "But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his cunning, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ." (2 Corinthians 11:13) We all must follow the way and name of the Lord Jesus Christ. Jesus began His ministry with being baptized. He was baptized not because of any sin he did, rather as our example in all righteousness and He's our Great High Priest. (Matthew 3:12-17; Hebrews 4:15) As we must also be baptized, after repenting from our ways to obey His way, because of our belief in Jesus, placing His name upon our hearts and lives. (Acts 2:38-22:16; John 14:6) Afterwards, as Christ was we will tempted by the evil one (Satan or the adversary of all of mankind). (Matthew 4:1-11; Corinthians10:13) Thereafter we are commanded or ordered by the Lord to preach and teach the gospel to everyone possible. (Mark 16:15-17; Matthew 28:20) The reason why most people do not continue in the word is because either they obeyed tradition of men (Matthew 4:4) instead of the Scriptures, or Satan has enticed them with the lusts and pride of this life. (1 John 2:15-17) Yes, there have been many who killed calling themselves Christians, but they were not. They were imposters. Jesus Himself said that you would know them by their fruits. (Matthew 7) "But all these things will they do unto you for my name's (Jesus) sake, because they know not him that sent me." (John 15:21) Today the Trinitarians still persecute all who uplift the name of Jesus. In the past, through the Inquisition, Acts of Faith (Auto de Fe) and Hitler (The Pope had a agreement with the Nazis in 1933), the trinity holders have eliminated over 68,000,000 people. These are the one who Jesus said would: "These things have I spoken unto you, that ye should not be offended. They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service. And these things will they do unto you, because they have not known the Father, nor me." (John 16:1-3) Jesus already forewarned us of these men, thereby avoiding offense because the knowledge of God frees you from both sin and Satan. Remember, he that is of God hears His words. Nothing here is of my own will, rather search the Scriptures for yourself like Bereans to verify the truth. Save yourself from this untoward (God) generation.
Now that you have given the verses, will you explain them in layman's terms so we can know you understand what they are meaning? It's easy to regurgitate what one have learned from a book or teacher (Isaiah 28:9-13) but can you paint us your own understanding of what they mean?.
Ok, layman's terms. In a nutshell if by belief you have not obeyed the instruction of Jesus and delivered through His Apostles by being baptized into the name of Jesus, you are still in unbelief, unregenerated and not born-again by the water and Holy Spirit. Your lost according to Jesus and all of His disciples. Too easy.
OK, I needed to know if you were only regurgitating what you had read or realized their meanings, so many do, I'm sure you know.
The person that needs it in 'layman's terms' gives these two answers..hmm.., 'Man have not fallen! Existence designed it so every lifeforce goes through the process of experiencing every conceivable type of experience on earth, it's controlled by karma and reincarnation and lived as every life type on earth before incarnating as man designed to live in civilizations. For that purpose the Tree Of The Knowledge Of Good And Evil, in the Adam metaphor, was established to cause man to like and dislike half of all things causing the many different emotional states we encounter. Therefore, salvation is when one has completed their earthen learning experiences, gone through a new birth or metamorphosis to obtain the powers the sons of god (Genesis 6:1-4) had and Jesus demonstrated (John 14:12). AND this: Once a man have completed their earthen experiences they can not refuse becoming anointed with the dominion powers of sons of god Jesus demonstrated, it's automatic and nothing anyone can do to start nor stop it. That's why Revelation 22:11 was written saying He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still, everyone is to continue doing whatever their life require of them.
Let's be real...that's all I'll say. It seems that you are intelligent enough to comprehend exactly acts2and38 said...I asked for "acts 2 and 38" to show me he/she know what it means, I didn't say I didn't know what it means, For Ever Virtuous..
I also wonder if he/she know what the words in the name of Jesus Christ means in layman's language.
'In the name of Jesus' means you are doing something with the given authority, will, and power of that name (which God gave him), not by your own.
"In the name of Jesus" means Jesus is a pseudonym for the 2 messiahs the Bible prophesied to come, the "rod from the stem of Jesse and the branch from his roots" (Isaiah 11:1-12) with the Root being destined to come about the time Israel was restored the second time, 1948, which means he is already here. The term of in that phrase suggest it's not the actual name but a pseudonym, the person recorded as bringer of the gospels would not have had a Greek nor Roman name, which Jesus is of one, most likely Roman since Constantine, a Roman, spread it through his crusades as Revelation 6:2 foretold. Revelation 6:2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow {weapon}; and a crown {gospel about Jesus} was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer. Constantine went out with the gospel about Jesus and if the people didn't accept it he killed then until they did, then the Catholic Church followed suit and now the Beast is doing it using Christian evangelists and the United States' military as the weapons.
If you're alluding to someone who was supposed to be follower (Constantine) of Jesus or belief in the faith but yet persecuted people until they believed. Let's remember the great Apostle Paul who was once named Saul, a killer of churches, men, and women who professed belief in God. It was his main goal at one time. BUT even one who used to be a murderer and persecutor of those who didn't believe as he did (he was a non-believer) came to the knowledge of Christ and His salvation. I believe that even an atheist when the time is right and they are willing to walk in the Light and receive the truth, which is Jesus, they can receive salvation. And now I permanently digress.
It was my time when I became spiritually conceived, gestated, travailed, born, a child and now 28 years an adolescent, that only comes to those who believes Jesus enough to follow his teachings and example.
If anyone refuses Jesus; either in word or deed, then your own sin be upon you. You wanted the truth (Jesus said the truth will set you free) and I gave it to you. You do not have Jesus. He said: "I AM the way (singular), the truth and the life; no man can come unto God except by me." (John 14:6) Your telling your relying on your own self-righteousness, and not His righteousness and covering to be saved from that is already coming upon ungodly and unreasonable men, who refuse God's word. No Jesus, no life, way or truth. Know Jesus, know life, way and truth. So, you refuse Him that speaks from earth then He that speaks from heaven (God) will allow your sins to be open on judgment day. God will cast all those who refuse to believe and act upon His word to serve the eternal penalty of their sins, an eternity in the lake of fire awaits those refuse and rebel. Sorry, but I'm done explaining the truth to some who wishes to remain willing ignorant of reality. Grow up and became a helpful person by saving those around you instead of playing words and denying the only true God, the Lord Jesus Christ. I already that you have a reprobate spirit about you, it's evident in your words and attitude. Goodbye.
I'm so pleased you are so righteous you are qualified to judge me, I didn't judge you, why would you me?
Go in joy and peace .No nobody is righteous, not you and not me. I am not judging by my standards but by the word of God. It judges us all. (Matthew 7) The judgment of God is already upon me and all of the house of God now, so we don't have brought upon us later. As all have sinned and come short of perfection. However, God offered a free gift of salvation and a way (Jesus) out of dying eternally. I chose the covering of Christ, but you rejected it. That's your decision. Right or wrong take and live it. However, there is a judgment day coming for all deeds done in the body. You know how to pass that exam, but instead of using the material (Bible/Scriptures) which guide you into the promise and provision you foolish reject help. Ok. I get it. You want to do it alone on your self-righteous way. Fine. But cry like your are now when it goes sour on you. You go in your joy of folly and sin for a season, as I depart in the peace of Christ. Bye.
You judged me based on your interpretation of the book (Isaiah 29:10-11), not on what the spirit say through it.
Again I say, go in joy and peace.Wrong again. I used Scripture to judge, which shall judge - and already does judge me, the whole world. There is no private interpretation of Scripture. He that has the spirit of God or is spiritual judges all things. You must judge all things by the word of God that pertain to this life and the next. Since you lack the spirit of truth and righteousness, you make excuse and fail. Go in your sin as there is no peace to the wicked. All who reject God are considered by HIM to be wicked. And the whole world lies in wickedness. Christians are in the world but not of it. But continue on with your vain babblings please.
You use Scripture to Judge the man.....
The Scripture of itself Judges no man.
The man who uses scriptures to judge another cloaks and binds himself with and unto those scripts, thus condemning his own self. For it is written within the same scripts, that the letter (scripts) kills and also "the standard a man uses to judge by that standard he himself would be judged."
So in order to free yourself you must free those whom you seek to bind by the scriptures.You keep proving your righteousness but say you are not, I don't understand that, can you explain it to me?
You are saying I error yet, as Kess said, The Scripture of itself Judges no man.
The man who uses scriptures to judge another cloaks and binds himself with and unto those scripts, thus condemning his own self. For it is written within the same scripts, that the letter (scripts) kills and also "the standard a man uses to judge by that standard he himself would be judged."
So in order to free yourself you must free those whom you seek to bind by the scriptures.Hence, you judge everyone based on whether or not they share your beliefs.
That's called selfish intolerance.
Sorry, but regardless of the fantasy world Christians create for themselves, they are forced to be part of this world whether they like it or not/
If you are not righteous, then what are you?
Unrighteous....?
Even your judgement of yourself unto yourself is correct, if you would believe it....
when you do you would see the need to repent and become righteous.
...until then you stand in unbelief against your own judgement of self unto self.
The name of Jesus means in the name of Jesus. Exactly that and no more and no less. If Paul told us all to do everything with His name (Col 3:17). And Peter told us that no other name saves (Acts 4:10-12). And Jesus said that He alone had all power or authority, then we must obey every word of God and do all things in the name of Jesus. In order to be sure, we must have the Lord Jesus Christ as our foundation. No other title or name can take it's place to include the titles father (Jesus came in the father's name -Jo 5:43), son (Jesus was named so in Matt 1:21), and the Holy Ghost/Spirit (only comes or is sent in Jesus' name). Thus we must have Jesus or have traditions. Col 2:8-10. Argue with Jesus and not about this.
Then why are there so many Old Testament prophecies of 2 messiahs? You have not an ear to hear what the spirit say, I don't believe because of your ignoring how the spirit fore told the events. Why was his name not an Hebrew name when both of his parents were Jews? What you are saying and what the tests are don't agree.
Wow. I asked that same question 5,6 months ago. Why does a Hebrew 'god' have a Greek name? No one answered me. Do you know?
God is neither Hebrew or Greek....
His form will take the form of the one protraying him, whether that one be be Hebrew, Greek or ChineseI was speaking of 'Jesus'. Some Christians believe he is god. Do you? I'm not sure what form He (Creator) will take. All I know is the remnant will consist of many races, ethnicities, and nations.
Fair enough but still The same applies.
The Veracity of Jesus The Christ, lies in the integrity of the Man not in the name by which men may refer to him.
Who men say he is does not necessarily have a any bearing on who the actual man is.
He call himself by a name that no man can know,
And the Man who knows that name,
would know himself as that man.
Yoshua, called Jesus in scripture, is not god, his own words say he is a son of god (John 10:36) and everyone who believed he did what's written about him will also be (John 14:12). Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. is one answer.
Another is the name Jesus is a pseudonym for both messiahs, there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots, Yoshua called Jesus was the Rod messiah and whoever, Eliyehu? coming in the last days will be the Branch. Eliyehu will be the prophet like unto Moses (Deuteronomy 18:15 & 18) and Yeshua's words in John 14:2&3, In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. makes him the prophet like unto Joshua, what his name would actually have been.I can agree with you as 'Jesus' not being 'god'. That's clear. I'm having problems understanding the next part. Zech.6:11,12 explains the Branch. Yahusha had the same name as the son of Yahutzdak (Josedech), which is Yahusha (Joshua), who was the high priest. Who is Eliyehu?
Yoshua is my attempt to find the actual Hebrew word for Joshua and Eliyehu is Hebrew for Elijah who is to come during the great and dreadful day of the lord (Malachi 4:5-6).
When we look at Isaiah 11:1-12 we find verses 2-5 using him for both the Rod and Branch coming out of Jesse, thus, Zachariah 6:11-12 is doing the same with branch because verses 10-12 say the root, referring to the branch, will be to the gentiles arriving about the time Israel was restored the second time, 1948, which make him be on earth today already. It's that no one except himself, I suppose, know he is the one until he manifests as (Malachi 3:1) the Lord, whom ye seek, {who} suddenly come(s) to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in. That's what Yoshua is referring to in Matthew 24:36-39, no one will believe he is here until he enters whatever the "his temple" represents.Let's end this and say you don't believe in Jesus..therefore you can't receive the truth associated with him no matter how hard you try of your own carnal attempts. No need to analyze if you're not gonna believe anyway. Christianity is a religion based on FAITH. If you don't have it, you can perceive anything the Bible says, you may as well stop while you're ahead. That's why Jesus said he spoke in parables to some but to His disciples he would explain the parables. Many times he spoke to the Pharisees and religious teachers and priests (as you're acting) who would always analyze and express their disbelief in Him and what and who He represented. Case closed. Move on.
I meant to say that if you don't have FAITH, you CAN'T perceive or understand anything the Bible speaks or teaches about.
If you truly believe in Jesus, where's your sword? How many government figures have you beheaded lately? None? Jesus (and his Sicarii and Zealot followers) would be sorely disappointed with you.
God does not called TRUE believers, Christians to murder my friend. Note that when Jesus was betrayed by Judas that when Peter cut the man's ear off that Jesus reprimanded Peter for it and then Jesus put the man's ear back and healed Him. In so many words, Jesus was telling Peter that, that wasn't the way we do things as followers of Christ or people that claim to follow Him.
"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword." - Matthew 10:34
That, coupled with the fact that more than half of his disciples were active violent revolutionaries, seems to indicate to me that the incident at the Garden of Gethsemane was altered after the fact to make Jesus look like a peacekeeper.Without faith, you can take the true meaning and revelation from the scripture. You must read in context..by reading further Matt 10:37 says, 'he who loves [and takes more pleasure in] father or mother more than [in] Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves [and takes more pleasure in] son or daughter more than [in] Me is not worthy of me; And he who does not take up his cross and follow Me [cleave steadfastly to Me, conforming wholly to My example in living and, if need be, in dying also] is not worthy of Me.' Matt 10: 37-38
The 'sword' represents the conflict that can come as a result of following Jesus. Following Christ was not popular and still isn't today. You will have family members who don't believe like you, co-workers, etc and that can bring conflict (just like the conflict in this group posting because some believe in Him and others like you don't). There were those in the bible like Stephen (who was stoned for proclaiming the gospel of Christ) who died for believing. And there are those still today in this world who are dying because to practice Christianity can cause you to be murdered because they only want their religion to be practice (hence the sword Jesus spoke about or the conflict, separation, etc).
Also note again how you spoke that scripture out of context. Refer to John 10:10 'The thief (satan) cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy; I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.'
And lastly, most important, examine John 3: 16-21 :
'For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life (eternal life even after physical death). For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world' but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not (as you), is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God (Jesus). And this is the condemnation, that light (who is Jesus) is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.'
Who told you I don't believe in the person the pseudonym, Jesus, represents?
Christianity's book say Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen and means one has to work and find substance and evidence to support beliefs, faith is not blind as Christian's teach.
I'm more like Jesus than the Pharisees and religious teachers, Christians are more like them, but seldom can one see themselves clearly. I can and will discuss so long as anyone is willing to discuss with me if we don't keep saying the same things. Those who think Jesus is the answer and they haven't reasoned upon any other truth need to move on.Jesus clearly proved Himself and gave the evidence many demanded of Him and many He did without being asked because of the compassion He had for people. He proved Himself with miracles, signs, and wonders i.e. So you're right Christianity is not a blind faith.
Also refer to John 5: 31-47 in the words of Jesus Himself addressed for those who don't truly believe (as maybe yourself, I'm not sure but if it applies, it applies):
So we have John 5:31-47:
"If I were to testify on my own behalf, my testimony would not be valid. But someone else is also testifying about me (like me!
), and I assure you that everything he says about me is true. In fact, you sent investigators to listen to John the Baptist (the one who proclaimed Jesus entering the world), and his testimony about me was true. Of course, I have no need of human witness, but I say these things so you might be saved. John was like a burning and shining lamp, and you were excited for a while about his message. But I have a greater witness than John-my teachings and my miracles (boom, there it is!). The Father gave me these works to accomplish, and they prove that he sent me. And the Father who sent me has testified about me himself. You have never heard his voice or seen him face to face, and you do not have his message in your hearts, because you do not believe me-the one he sent you. "You search the Scriptures because you think they give you eternal life. But the Scriptures point to Me! Yet you refuse to come to me to receive this life. Your approval means nothing to me, because I know you don't have God's love within you. For I have come to you in my Father's name, and you have rejected me. Yet, if others come in their own name, you gladly welcome them. No wonder you can't believe! For you gladly honor each other, but you don't care about the honor that comes from the one who alone is God. Yet it isn't I who will accuse you before the Father. Moses will accuse you! Yes, Moses in whom you put your hopes. If you really believe Moses, you would believe me, because he wrote about me. But since you don't believe what he wrote, how ill you believe what I say?"
That's all the 'arugument' you need for this whole discussion to end right here.Quick! Find any trusted scholarly historical text that says Jesus existed!
Note: The Bible does not count, as it is not a scholarly text.
Note: Flavius Josephus falsified many accounts and thus is not a trusted source.Again I say, FAITH and personal experience (by receiving Jesus in faith so that you can experience Him on a personal level) is the foundation of Christianity. The Bible is the 'scholarly' and principle text for believers. And I'm sure there are texts other than the Bible, that even though they may not believe in what He represented, that they document that he did walk this earth.
But, again, the Bible say faith is works to find evidence and substance to support your unseen beliefs. I hear a lots of people saying [bthey ]received Jesus[/b] but I see no evidence that they have so why should I believe no evidence nor substance in their lives as the Bible tells me to? Jesus said If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me and I don't see any evidence of that in you as following him.
I see no Christians proving themselves in the way you're saying Jesus did so what evidence have you that you believe in him? He said if you believe on him you can exceed his revealed works (John 14:12) and not even your talking about him comes anywhere close to suggesting you believe.
You're the one testifying that you believe in Jesus so much, so is your testimony valid? As for my testimony, only time will prove if I'm sent from my father. When I fulfill my destiny then you will know I am not my own witness but my works are. Condemn me all you want, that's your "thang" so just do it, but at least keep your eyes, ears and heart open for my testimony.I'm not condemning you, you condemn yourself. And there are works following me, trust. You don't me on a personal level or are able to see the way I live my life from day to day. For the Bible even says that signs and wonders will follow them that believe (i.e. praying for the sick and recover). The bible also says that you will know a tree by the fruit it bears and Jesus demands that believers produce the works if we say we belong to Him. Being able to talk about Jesus and proclaim you're a Christian but at the end of the day we have to live out what the Bible says we should do through the grace God gives through His son Jesus as redeemed, adopted sons and daughters. The bible also says that you will know them by the love that they show. The true mark of a believer is by not only them living as the Bible instructs but also by LOVE, for without it we are nothing.
So with that said, I love you with the love of Christ and I pray that you will be restored. I pray that whatever happened in your life that caused you to reject him will be reconciled in your heart, mind, and soul in the name of Jesus. I pray and decree that every spiritual, mental, and psychological chain that has you bound are broken in the name of Jesus. I pray that the love of God will overshadow you and consume in the days to come that you might know that God sits on the throne and is who He says, only if you believe even NOW.. I speak peace to your mind and every seed of falsehood is destroyed by the power of the anointing. And I pray all these things in the name of Jesus, the name above every name, the name that causes demons to tremble, the name that sets the captives free, the name that heals, the only name by which we can receive salvation. Amen.Where can I go to find your works since the Bible tells me to seek evidence of it? I don't know you on a personal level but your words don't support your claim since talk is cheep and often without substance. The fruit I'm getting from you, your words, isn't supporting your claim. I am born again with testimony of my spiritual conception, gestation, trivial, birth, childhood and am now over 28 years an adolescent, can you give that testimony since the bible say For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that [you] are without excuse for not having testimony of your new birth similar to what's seen in the natural birth .
So, come on, sister, show me what's you're working with. If you want to read my testimony, online search for Elijah NatureBoy and scroll down my contents to THE BOOK OF ELIJAH: A LETTER TO THE WORLD and read it, it's there in dark and light blue.Who talks like that?
'the name that causes demons to tremble'
Christians sometimes talk like that.
They have for centuries.
The disciples talked like that.
Did you just now notice?And, you know that how?
Not really, I've read some that are more and less disturbing than that.
Zech.6:11,12, this Scripture indeed speaks of Mashyach and even gives His Name as the Branch. Am I correct, you are saying He has already returned? Weren't we warned about this Matt.24:26. No one knows, not even Himself when He will return Matt.24.36. There is only one temple now. The earthly temples were copies. Given the various spellings of the original name of Joshua and the fact that there were four men who bore the same name as the coming Mashyach, we must remember that the prophecy was concerning the Yahusha (Joshua) in Zech.6. Yahuah said the Mashyach would have the same name as Yahusha son of Yahutazdak, not Yahusha son of Nun (whose name was later shortened to Yeshua/Joshua). In Deut.32;44 and Num.13:8, we can read the original name of Joshua the son of Nun Hoshea or Hosea, the same as the prophet Hosea. In verse 16 of Numbers chp.13 Moses changed the name Husha (original name of Joshua) to Yahusha. Which is to say Yah is Deliverer?Savior.
My error, I meant Yahusha, I said in my above post Branch when I meant to say Yahusha the son of Yahutazdak in Zachariah 6:11 is being used like like the the word him in Isaiah 11:2-5, it used the single form of the pronoun him while talking about more than one person.
Yes, the one whose prophetic name is Branch should have been here since sometime around May 1948 when Israel became a corporate nation. The new testament, in 1 Peter 2:5, tells us the temple the Branch/Eliyehu will build will be with the bodies of man Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ . For some reason Emmanuel's definition has been changed from in man is god into god with man so once Eliyehu, the Branch, manifests everyone who receives him will demonstrate god being in man. I know Yoshua means Yah is Savior and is what the New Testament's Jesus would have been.
You only want to quickly get another text or 'opinion' because the Bible, the living word speaks for itself and condemns and reproves you. And that 'scares' your thinking, so you then feel the need to say that the Bible is not a 'scholarly text.' The Bible is actually one of the most scholarly books ever produced and is read by believers and unbelievers all over the world. That can't be said of A LOT of books. But anyway, you acknowledge without acknowledging that what you read is true but not truly receiving it.
"The Bible is actually one of the most scholarly books ever produced"
Sounds like someone doesn't know what "scholarly" means.Let's keep the debate centered. And TWO times I say, the practice of Christianity is based on YOUR FAITH (not science or scholarship although it bears scholarly attributes. The bible is the scholarly source for believers and is the proof for unbelievers who would dare to believe in the truth it gives).
And lets keep this debate centered as it wasn't about whether the bible is scholarly or not if you refer to my previous replies where I present scripture on 'proving who Jesus was and that He is real' and also presenting the argument that those like you aren't able to receive the Bible or its truth anyway because you reject it, because you lack faith. So there's no need to keep talking about this further, because you're only going to keep rejecting anything related to the Bible and who Jesus is and was.And how are you so sure your fairy-tale book is any more true than anyone else's fairy-tale book? What if the Mahabharata is the actual word of truth and you denied its contents? Do you have any evidence to prove that it isn't?
Your word for today and the days henceforth is FAITH. Faith. Faith. Faith!!!! I will no longer 'debate' with you on this. I love you with the love of Christ. Goodnight.
I couldn't agree with you more. It shows.
It's also very disturbing.
Again, one you don't know me personally (so you're not able to see my physical 'works'). But the evidence in how one's life changes. For example, someone who used to be addicted to drinking and other destructive things. When they receive salvation, some immediately or slowly give that addiction up because of the power of God working in their life to help them rid themselves of said destructive behavior. THAT is the evidence and proof. I can speak for myself, I used to curse, drink, and do other immoral things but when I decided to really live for God and be serious about accepting Jesus in my life, that ALL changed. This is not a claim of perfection, but proof that through grace we are able to be perfected and live a life unbound to the sin and destructive things of this world. I'm a living witness and evidence that God is real and He is still changing lives.
That statement by Jesus in Matt 19:21 was specifically addressed to the rich man. He had many possessions and he was asking about what he had to do to receive eternal life. First Jesus told him he need to keep the commandments and the rich man replied that he did. So then Jesus told him as an act of faith in really following Him, to see where his heart and treasures really were, to sell all his possessions...however the rich man was saddened by that because it had a lot of stuff! This means that in reality his possessions he had were more important than following Jesus. His riches were still a god to him, for the Bible says we are to put no other gods before him or above him. So then the rich man was not ready to forsake all to follow Jesus, he still had a hidden god of money and possessions and could not fully and whole heartedly follow Jesus. For instance, I'm not rich and I'm in a financial rut but that doesn't mean I'm going to become a drug dealer and do immoral things like stealing just to fill that emptiness of the lack of money. No! I remain faithful to God and still follow Him. I could say God is the reason for my financial difficulty and that God isn't real and all these other things. But when I chose to follow Jesus, I had grace knowing that I meant it for good whether I had a lot of money or little money. And by God's grace and my faith in Him, I'll continue to follow Him.Sorry, but many also don't give up their drinking or other destructive things, that is not evidence or proof of anything.
In other words, you already had decided to give up drinking, etc. entirely on your own. YOU did that, no one else.
That's just plain silly. You are not evidence of any gods existence.
Yes you can, and it is just as invalid as your other claims of proof for Gods existence.
You totally missed everything I said. I told you what my evidence is..in my testimony. I don't have an obligation to prove anything to you for only God judges me, however I always do pray that I am a living epistle in the eyes of those around me, doing what I proclaim. Whether you want to believe I'm no longer the person I used to be as a result of Christ in life is on you. This is pointless. And I won't read any hypocrisy. Thanks but no thanks. Good bye, for good. Argue with yourself.
lol how christ-like of you, all under the guise of self-righteousness.
I'm not self-righteous. My confidence is in what God can do and not myself so I boast in God and God alone and His grace. Thanks.
yeah, and how exactly do you know that "god" saved you - and if in fact your god did save you, how do you know which one? there are thousands of proposed gods.
It doesn't take a god to save someone from drinking. Thousands of people do it all the time, without the need for a god. Do you claim, therefore, that god listened to your prayers and delivered you from self-destructive behaviors that were triggered by your actions, but ignores the prayers of starving, abused and helpless children? What kind of god is that?
Isn't a true christian's mission to be humble and not boast at all? I don't recall christ boasting, and he was supposedly the son of god. Yet he was humble. Maybe he boasts in the English version of the bible. I typically only read the greek and latin versions - you know, the ones that the bible was actually written in so I may be missing something in the umpteenth translation.Anyway, look it up here where the Bible tells Christians only in what they should boast in, 1 Corinthians 1:31 "Therefore, as the Scriptures say, "If you want to boast, boast only about the LORD." That is why I said, if I boast I only boast in the LORD, not myself. And yes, I PROCLAIM that God delivered me from self-destructive behaviors. And God being all-knowing, why don't you take up those other questions to God for yourself. And why you're at it, you can take it upon yourself to give to charities and help the poor you speak of. Everyone brings that up, but wouldn't dare want to be poor themselves or put themselves in a position to help. Though I know that there are those who dedicate their lives to helping the poor.
I do, actually. We go every Sunday to deliver food to the homeless, and we don't hold their meals hostage until they sit through a sermon first. We just feed then.
I have asked god, back when I used to believe in him. As a graduate with a degree in theology, I recognized throughout the course if my studies that it was worthless. Christians are supposed to be able to give anyone that asks a reason for the hope that they have. You attribute your success to god, but I can't see why. How do you know that, not only did a divine entity help you, but which god that divine entity was.First I commend you, great job (if that's the pat on the back you need, however, that's still a good thing). But anyway I attend a church also where we give food to those less fortunate, and we DON'T 'make them sit through sermons to get food.' If they want it, they can get it, that's it. And if they want further help than that like spiritual help through prayer, they can get that too. So don't assume, that I'm apart of that making people hear a sermon before they can get food. And I understand that many, if they're not strong in their faith, and go beyond just what their learning in class, that whatever beliefs in God they once had are destroyed. That was a person decision for you to no longer believe. You simply have that choice and I have emphatically have mine...and will keep it. Thanks for the reply. I love you with the love of Christ.
You're just not going to answer my question, are you?
AND to answer your question, I know it was God Almighty because of my personal relationship in getting to know God and continuing to get to know Him. And also based upon the changes that He's made in my life (my personal experience) when I prayed, he answered my prayers! That's how I know. And the foundation is FAITH, and faith alone. Neither will I insert a scripture as that would be useless with you. But again, I say, I choose to believe in God (and again that's through my faith in God alone and evidence He's produced in my life) and you choose not to. That's your choice. You can question me all you want but that doesn't intimidate me neither will it change my personal testimony of who God is. And I will not try to change your choice as you have a right to your own choice. All I can simply do is stand upon what and upon who I believe without wavering. Again, I love you with the love of Christ. Have a great day.
but how do you know that it's the god that you happen to already believe in is the one that is listening to and answering your prayers? I don't mean any disrespect, but did he show you a driver's license or something?
As a graduate of theology school you should know that Christianity is greatly based upon FAITH and even the scriptures speak extensively of the faith we must have as Christians. I have never seen God but I know in my heart He exists and with that he shows me Himself and others. He can truly only be revealed to those who WANT to believe in Him. That's what separates unbelievers from believers in addition to other things like striving to live and do what the scripture says. I wish I could make you see how I see, but God wouldn't force you to either, so who am I to do that? I could give you a bunch of examples and even scripture upon scripture (even as Jesus did for the Pharisees and others who saw the works He did but still didn't believe), but it still wouldn't persuade you because you already reject the thought. So it's useless. I don't feel disrespected at all. I'm fine. If you're really sincere about it, pray and ask God to reveal Himself to you, but you must be open to Him with a humble heart, willing to receive His truth. That's all I can tell you. As I said before, I won't present scriptures to you about this, though I could, but you already have your heart and mind set...and well that's exhausted energy. I pray that you find God...if you want to find Him.... and that starts by having a humble and receptive ears and heart to His word (the Bible).
I know what the bible says about faith, but I don't understand how you find believing in something without evidence or reason to justify that belief to be a good way to live. I used to believe, until I started realizing what christianity was built on. then I started realizing that it's possible that jesus never existed. then I started realizing that the gospels were not written by anyone who even met jesus, and the rest of the new testament was written by someone who admittedly never met him.
A lot of people around the world claim to have personal experiences and relationships from god - but they all attribute them to different gods. i want to know what makes YOURS more true than a Muslim claiming a personal relationship and special experiences from Allah, or a Hindu from Krishna or a Pagan with Gaia. You can't differentiate between them. Either all of them are true, or some of them are true - or none of them are true. How do you, as a believer, tell the difference?Even if I were to present my evidence to you, it would still be rejected (my personal experiences etc), there's even scriptures that talk about God being the true one, above all gods. But I'm not going to go there with you. I know the difference it makes for me, the evidence God produces in my life which you may not accept but it can't always be measured based on scientific measures etc. The evidence Jesus himself gave were the miracles and everything he did and of which he says to cause people to believe or become saved because he knew the carnal nature of man to want and need 'evidence.'
But then if you don't even accept the evidence He gives, there's no hope, because there's no faith. But I can't help but think that this is something that you're personally struggling with and really want to know. Again I can lay out scripture to support what I say, for it's the scripture that builds my faith even when sometimes I may not possess as much faith as I should. For example, the Bible tells me that
God will never leave me or forsake me. When I'm going through life's struggles sometimes I feel alone but then I remember what the Bible said and instantly I'm encouraged and I feel peace. So by studying and practicing what the scriptures say, I build my faith. Honestly, even as a believer, it seems like God is so far away but God always has a way of reassuring me and making everything work out.
I could lay out scriptures of for you to 'prove' that my God is more true than others, but I say again it wouldn't even help because you reject the Bible already and choose not to have faith in it or even in God Himself. I really wish I could help you and answer question. Take my advice as I said before. Really ask God to reveal Himself to you as you pray and read, be open, don't be defensive, and cold about it, and have faith. Those are all keys.
If anything I'll leave you with a couple scriptures out of the same passage in Romans (which I'm not up to debate in any way because the scripture stands on it's own, and Christians are even warned not to 'argue' over scripture, but you can ponder it yourself).
Romans 9:10-21 'If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved (or receive salvation). (this is a key scripture). For it is by believing in your heart that you are made right with God, and it is by confessing with your mouth that you are saved. As the Scriptures tell us, "Anyone who trusts in him will never be disgraced." Jew and Gentile are the same in this respect. They have the same Lord, who gives generously to all who call on him (meaning Jew and Gentile have the same benefit of salvation of calling on the Lord eventhough they aren't the 'same'..salvation isn't just for certain people, but it's available for everyone). For "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved." But how can they call on him to sae them unless they believe in him? And how can they believe in him if they have never heard about him? And how can they hear about him unless someone tells them?'
Verse 16. 'But not everyone welcomes the Good News, for Isaiah the prohpet said, "Lord who has believed our message?"So faith comes from hearing, that is hearing the Good News about Christ. but I ask, have the people of israel (God's 'chosen' people) actually heard the message? Yes, they have: "the message has gone throughout the earth, and the words to all the world."
Verse 20 '"I was found by people who were not looking for me. I showed myself to those who were not asking for me." But regarding Israel (i.e. believers, those who used to believe), God said, "All day long I opened my arms to them, but they were disobedient and rebellious (they rejected Him)."you get that all of the other holy books in the world claim that they're all right, and all the other ones are wrong too, right? Using the Bible to prove that the Bible is right is circular logic and it doesn't work.
i'm not struggling with it. I'm just a curious person, and I like to learn and I never get tired of hearing what die hard believers say.
Other Christians here claimed to have seen and spoken with God, why haven't you?
So, God answers your prayers but not the many tens of thousands of children who die every day from starvation. YOU and your prayers are more important of a priority to God than starving dying children?
That's a pretty horrible God.That would be because their karma require them to experience that, along with the adults starving to death because they don't know or are not willing to eat something they don't know or like as a food.
That's incredibly callous. It's truly mind boggling the things written on these forums that defend the faith.
I do defend my faith {finding substance and evidence to support my beliefs} because as a nomad I did just that, ate grass, weds, berries so bitter they made my eyes water, any vegetable anyone else would cook, and lots more, but I'm still healthy because of it. That's why I'm defending my faith but not in any god, only my experiences.
Testimony is only valid when it is supported by evidence. By itself, testimony is invalid, for a number of reasons.
If testimony is invalid, then why do we have 'star witnesses' in court even with concrete evidence. Having evidence circumstantial evidence doesn't prove a case, but it's often personal witness WITH evidence that wins a case. I'm sure you're familiar with that. And while you're at it, yes, I know that we don't have a perfect justice system. But use that example as an answer to your statement.
Eyewitness testimony is never trusted on is own. You done have just one witnesses, you have to have multiple witnesses to describe the same event BECAUSE eyewitness testimony is do notorious and subjective. Testimony without evidence is worthless, and any judge or lawyer would tell you that.
Eye witness testimony is frequently accepted on its own. People are convicted on this basis every minute of the day.
Where in this country has someone been convicted solely on the testimony of one witness with no other testimony or corroborating evidence?
Louisiana, I was convicted without any evidence because they wanted to control me and I refused to allow it. the officer accusing me was the only witness and it was all lies.
Give me a case name/number to back up that claim in a criminal trial. I find that incredibly hard to believe
I Don't have it because it happened when I was a nomad and the papers have disappeared, but it did happen and I served 3 years in the pen behind it. They have expunged all 20+ railroading trials except one was in the USA Today, here is what it read because the people keeping my site saw it and put it on my site.
USA TODAY
Friday, December 1, 2000
Louisiana
Ruston - A man who wears only cutoff shorts will spend almost a year in jail for improper use of the Grambling State University computer lab. Authorities said Elijah Alexander was caught repeatedly using computers, even through he had been told not do to so. The lab is restricted to GSU students; Alexander isn't enrolled. Those charges was trespassing but GSU is an open university which the law says such labs are also for public use. All around the nation I used them but Grambling wanted to be different.
Notice I said WITH, a case is stronger WITH evidence AND testimony often times.
In courts every day. A person says someone robbed, assaulted, or raped them while nobody else was around. Someone matching the description is detained and identified from a line up. They are believed, the person is convicted. It is routine.
Too bad we don't have anything like forensic science or deductive reasoning or investigations to serve as evidence--oh, wait...
Forensics are hardly every actually used even in homicides, that's more of a TV thing.
I have sat on two juries and in both cases the only evidence was what the victim said.Then the system is broken. If that's all it takes, I just need your name and photo and take you to court for attempted battery and assault. I mean, my word is good enough to indict you after all, right?
I agree, even if you watch the show First 48, officers eagerly go after eye witnesses even if they have forensic evidence. And then in your case of sitting on a jury, what the victim says does then become the evidence too keeping in mind the story of what happen and what you decide about it.
Being on a jury is pretty terrifying. I am glad I don't have to do it again for a while.
Exactly, and the jury must believe the story and convict only beyond a reasonable doubt. A case must still be made not just on testimony but corresponding evidence. Many times, when you have an eyewitness plus evidence then the person in question is likely convicted unless some protocol has been forgoed such as violating the defendants rights in some way during the prosecution process or initial arrest. So again I say and we all know that eyewitness and personal testimony WITH evidence makes a case more convincing. But even if there's no concrete evidence that can be found that they can prove all the jury has to go on is the testimony and story surrounding the case. The jury then really has to make the decision beyond a reasonable amount of doubt. This is where human intuition comes in making this decision on reasonable doubt. Many times our instincts are right when we feel something just isn't right about something. So in a case where there's on several witnesses and not enough concrete evidence, a person in question can be persecuted based on those witnesses testimony and the jury's belief or faith in what they believe really happened. So, in saying all that I rest my case on whether testimony is a valid tool as opposed to just evidence or even evidence and testimony in proving whether my testimony or any other Christian's testimony can be used as 'evidence.'
Incorrect. The jury can make the decision based on one person's testimony alone. Sometimes that other evidence just doesn't exist.
Do you let the robber off because the shopkeeper was alone and had no camera? Do you let a rapist off just because he was careful? If the victim can identify him and is credible, no, you convict the criminal.You misunderstood. I actually agree with you! I was presenting different scenarios i.e. evidence vs no evidence but with testimony etc.
I was saying that concrete evidence usually only makes the witnesses testimony more CONVINCING. The lack of concrete evidence with the testimony doesn't throw away the fact the defendant is still guilty.
There isn't a single Christian who could stand up in court with personal testimony of their gods existence and it would be valid. Not a chance.
There is the chance providing the court and jury accepts any part of what the Bible said Jesus said concerning himself, such as:
I said I am the son of god,
I am in the father and the father is in me,
I do what I see my father do, then on the cross he said
my god, my god, why hath thou forsaken me when he saw his lifeforce leaving his body which means his own lifeforce is his god.
.Yes, perhaps in a court room on Bizarro World it could get accepted, but only if the judge and jury all wore clown suits and clumsily piled into a miniature car afterward.
There is a chance in a US court, it was a US court that made me a Public Minister (United States Constitution, Article 3, Section 2, Paragraph 2) in 1978 because of my way of life and understanding of it, therefore it's possible one would hold that as valid.
And you are right, it does help to have more that one testimony/witness. There are many others like myself who will give you testimony and evidence of God's life-transforming power for them.
Fine, but do you actually think a jury is going to accept your testimony? Not a chance.
I wanted to say something but it will take too long for here. I cannot post a link here so kindly use google and type this. (Salvation, HIS standard vs. our standard.) its my article on zujava.. Thanks i'll be glad to see your comments there.
I agree, we have OUR standard of salvation many times, but the true meaning and terms is laid out before all who dare to believe it and read it from themselves.
In the Name of God Most Gracious, Most Merciful,
What is salvation if not God, through His mercy, forgiving the person. Even if he did sin God found him to be always returning to God seeking His forgiveness. After all isn't that what heaven is. God's ultimate and eternal forgivness. As a Muslim, I don't believe that God's forgivness, and the salvation that would come from it has illogical requirenments to it. For example, in Christianity salvation comes about simply from believing that Jesus ( who they claim is God incarnate, an anathema concept in Islam) died on the cross for the original sin of all mankind. They claim anyone who believes this is 'saved'.
The problem with this is that it goes against the universal principle that God is eternal, and as such so are all of His attributes. His Mercy, which extends to all of creation and never changes. Another problem is limiting God by giving Him ( Glorified is He) attributes befitting of something He (swt) created.
In Islam, salvation is made a little simpler to understand devoid of confusion. Since God created all of mankind, it would be logical to say that He made salvation understandable for all, regardless of thier level of intellect and learning. Muslims worship only One God, who is unlike anything in creation. When we do commit sin then we turn to God in sincere repentance, and it is God alone who forgives sins. As Allah in the Qur'an instructs Muslims to say, " In You do we trust and Your aid do we seek." ( Al Fatihaah 1:4)I don't judge anyone brother.. But I want you to see this, If you we're born a Buddhist, ( you were probably raised as a Buddhist and will die as a Buddhist, you will even fight for what you believe - right?) now., if you were born a Christian, a Muslim, or any religion you will do the same right?. Now, anyone will fight for what he believes right? And will surely say that we were right and they were not.
Here's the point I would like you to see. - if you were born on a different religion you will not probably know who's right or wrong.
What should you do then?
YOU MUST HAVE A CLEAR UNDERSTANDING OF EACH RELIGIONS DOCTRINE, HISTORY, AND FACTS. THEN COMPARE WHICH IS TRUE. YOU MAY NOW SEE WHO IS TRUE THEN.
Because, We have been given a free will to do so. Now, if we will end in HELL we will no longer have the reason to complain that we have been not told of the truth. Because finding the truth is not a joke. There are 7 Billion People in this world today, 2 Billion of which are Muslims and 2 Billion are the Christian. Now if 2 Billion would be saved, why are we sitting pretty here?? 5 BILLION PEOPLE WOULD BE LOST ! isn't that enough to break your heart?I don't want to debate, or treat you as enemy, we should be helping each other and loving each other as GOD loves you, you should learn to love others also. So please don't get me wrong..
I will boldly say that religion will not save anyone..
WHY?
Even in any other form of religion everyone is committing sins. People from yours and ours KILLS each other, STEALS on each other, HURTS each other. WE go to our respective churches or temples but we don't change anything, we learn from our elders but when we go outside nothing is changed. WE still speak lies, we still speak bad about others, we mock, we murmur, we say vulgar, nonsense and bad words. Now is the Lord willing to accept those person on heaven? certainly not.
It is true that only GOD could save us, i agree. But lets see this fact. WHOS GOD IS TRUE? now we should all make a research of all the facts and details on how each religion started and what is the difference between those religion and ours, let us seek the help of GOD sincerely and if HE will see it, HE will certainly open our eyes to the truth.
Just like what i've did, It took me a year to research and I was shocked on what I have learned. I changed the way I am , because this world is being deceived by the devils.That has been done many times over with the same result each time, none of them are true. They are all myths.
nah.. are you sure? have you examined what results that those 7 Billion people each had? ask them one by one and tell me if some have found whats true or nobody had found .
So far, no gods have shown themselves. What can we conclude about that?
This will take us to a long long debate that even this forum will not be sufficient. I'll just take it this way.
Study how the country Israel started, seek history books and facts and you will find out why. As each country has its own given history according to facts and written datas, probably Israel also has.So what? Do you have a point here? How does studying the history books and facts about Israel going to help? They will do nothing to support your argument at all.
I, in no way intended to offend anyone. I wasn't born Muslim, I was raised Christian. I'm merely stating the truth as I came to see it. Of course people are free to choose.
Lost from where? Surely, most of those 5 billion people can find their way back home.
To further explain my part
just like what I have said we are free to choose and we don't need to argue but to help each other to see the truth. I would like to recommend a good read. Search how RANDALL NILES a former atheist was converted into Christianity. and how a former skeptic , cambridge proffessor C.S. Lewis was also converted to Christianity.
It will be a challenge to read that.. Please do.Sorry, but those books will not show me any truths. I read Lewis' nonsense, he doesn't have a leg to stand with his feeble argument.
We're trying to help you see reality, rather than cling to false truths.
I also recommend Y jesus . com, but not all these read will be leading to truth. Randall Niles in my opinion was more accurate coz he is an archeologist who studied the origin or Bible, Israel, and many more.
Fine, but look up Matt Dillihunty, Dan Barker, Bart Ehrman, David Fitzgerald, David Smalley etc - all former christians (several headed for the ministry) who are now atheist activists and authors.
Ok lets take it to this. Read the whole posts of Randal Niles in His website and his videos available at the net and I'll read and listen to those you have mentioned. Let's see..
If I will be convinced, I will join Atheism and will blog it. Let's see if who will be convinced.but I have read a lot of Randall Niles. I have seen a lot of his videos. I'm still an atheist. What's your point?
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enough sins? Not really. I don't believe that human beings are inherently "sinful" and outside of a magical super-being's grace and mercy so that they need to be covered in blood and symbolically eat flesh and drink blood in order to make them good enough for their "creator" to love them.
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lol so glad i don't base my reality on your opinion.
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really? What theological bible college did you matriculate from?
To thou who joined a short time ago, "....so the whole thing is an exercise in futility."
Hope no one sees me doing this “agreeing with an atheist” lol but I gotta agree with that comment as I understand it any way.
What did Jesus say about the man that was in church, thanking the Lord for not making him a sinner like that other fella “over there” Jesus said something to the effect that “That sinner over there” was more righteous that he. We have to be very careful (each and every one of us) cause it is SOoo easy to do and not even know that we are doing it, that we not be a hypocrite.
No matter how righteous I think that I am , there is always people “over there” pointing their finger at me all the while, thanking the Lord that they are not a sinner like me.
Shame on anybody that tells another that they are going to burn in hell cause they are not as I am. Judgment is MINE Saith the Lord!
If the bible doesn’t say that hypocrisy is an abomination unto the Lord; It should.
Now to answer your question NO drinking makes my OLD body feel twice as Old.
I like to boil stuff down to basic components. And what I said is what came to mind at that time.
I don't think that Jesus intended us to go out and convert atheists with our eloquent speech and knowledge of the subject matter and judge them. He never did that! It was only when the Pharisee confronted him that he put them in their place.
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