Jesus is Coming Back Are you Ready?

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  1. barranca profile image80
    barrancaposted 10 years ago

    I've read about 2/3 of this thread. Sorry if what I am writing is old news.  Scholars doubt the attribution of the Book of Revelation (no plural) to John.  They generally believe it was written later during one of the wave of roman persecutions of christians when they were being thrown to the lions, etc.  Its cause and intention is to buck up the faithful in very bad times.  Hang in there johnny, even if you are about to be ripped apart, a better world awaits.....and those bad people behind their lions will suffer worse than you....namely eternally.  It is kind of understandable in this context.  The trouble is when Christians took it literally and included it in the canon.  It is so vivid with its wild apocalyptic imagery that believers in the inerrancy of the bible make it a kind of centerpiece vision for the faith (Notice it is behind the high altar in the Sistine Chapel...one of the holy of holies of Christianity.)  It inverts a message of universal love into a message of few are saved and while most are damned, tormented in hell forever.  Straight is the gate....etc.  Martin Luther thought the B of R should have been left out of the canon...that it was pernicious.  With this I agree.  There is much in the bible that needs to be read in some kind of historical context and not just swallowed whole through the eyes of ignorant faith.  I have too much respect for the bible to read it without a critical intellect and the knowledge of scholarship, history, and context.  It is amazing to think that most of these arguments are based on the mundane issue of how to read a book. (Just went to Wikipedia on this after writing my comment....there is a good initial discussion of this topic as barely sketched above.)

    1. Make  Money profile image74
      Make Moneyposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Hi barranca.  I've read this below before but I had to find it online so I could post it.  This source is from the Latter-day Saints (Mormons) but it basically says the same as what I have read else where.  The link it came from also tries to endorse polygamy so I won't post the link.


      I've read that it took 80 years to get these 4 books (James, Hebrews, Jude, and Revelation) placed back in the Lutheran Bible in the proper places. 

      The Mormon link also quoted this, "Luther retained many Catholic views that other Protestants rejected. For example, in 1545 he described the Eucharist as the "adorable Sacrament," prompting Calvin to accuse him of "raising up an idol in God's temple," and of being "half-papist."  I've also read that Luther prayed the Rosary until he died.  I do not believed that Luther's 95 thesis were a declaration of war against the Catholic Church but German Princes turned it into that because they coveted more land.

      Yeah at least the first part of the book of Revelation was to buck up the faithful in the early seven churches.  There is some speculation on the dates this source believes the books of the New Testament were written.  Good enough for me though. smile
      35 A.D. :  Gospel of Matthew
      40 to 41 A.D. :  Book of James
      42 A.D. :  Gospel of Mark
      42 A.D. :  Gospel of John
      50 A.D. :  Book of 1Thessalonians
      51 A.D. :  Book of 2Thessalonians
      53 A.D. (Spring) :  Book of Galatians
      56 A.D. (Late Winter) :  Book of 1Corinthians
      57 A.D. (Late Summer) :  Book of 2Corinthians
      57 A.D. (Winter) :  Book of Romans
      59 A.D. :  Gospel of Luke
      61 to 63 A.D. : Book of Ephesians
            Book of Philippians
            Book of Colossians
            Book of Philemon
            Book of Hebrews
      63 A.D. : Book of Acts
            Book of 1Timothy
            Book of Titus      
      63 to 64 A.D. : Books of 1John, 2John and 3John
      64 to 65 A.D. : Book of 1Peter
      65 to 66 A.D. : Book of 2Peter
      66 to 67 A.D. : Book of Jude
      67 A.D. : Book of 2Timothy
      95 A.D. :  Book of Revelation

      God bless
      Mike

      1. RKHenry profile image72
        RKHenryposted 10 years agoin reply to this

        Sorry about this, but I'm glad to see Mike is online.  Mike, I'd like to kidnap you for a minute.  Would you mind going to the Masons post please?  I'd like to know your opinion on the matter.  Thank you.  Again, my apologies for interrupting.

        1. barranca profile image80
          barrancaposted 10 years agoin reply to this

          I am no serious scholar of the Bible but I did spend 3 years in graduate school seminary back in the early 70's which may qualify me to have general opinions.  The dates you list for most of the books of the NT are a lot earlier than what was being taught when I was in school.  Most thought Mark was the earliest book based on an even earlier source that they deemed "Q" source.  But even now they are discovering new texts that perhaps should have been in the canon, such as the Gospel of Thomas.  Personally, I think Thomas is a much better candidate than B of R.  But the big problem with B & R are the "futurists"....those who are constantly trying to act as if the book is predicting a future event and they try to use it as a key to understanding present events or near future events....etc.  I believe that is trying to see through a glass way to darkly.  I can imagine a more distorted prism.

          1. apeksha profile image46
            apekshaposted 10 years agoin reply to this

            This is for commenting don't write huge so that the person who wants to reply have to spend hrs to first read and then hrs to understand those replies...


            This looks like a huge hub...better way u write a hub in your acct
            plz reply short things...so that more people can take participate.

  2. Make  Money profile image74
    Make Moneyposted 10 years ago

    That's interesting barranca.  I believe the Church had the Holy Spirit to guide it in picking the canon of the Bible.  Actually Ezekiel, Daniel, and Zechariah also mention future events and are often compared to the book of Revelation.  You've probably heard the phrase "the Old is revealed in the New" referring to the Old and New Testaments.  Some parts of other books in the New Testament talk about future events too.  Yeah some do have different ideas on the end times of this era.  I forgot to include Revelation in my previous post.  I've edited it now.

    95 A.D. :  Book of Revelation

    I was just about to turn my computer off until Monday RKHenry but I'll take a look at it and see if I have enough time to reply.  It's not a fight is it? smile

    Thanks for your wise words apeksha.
    Mike

    1. RKHenry profile image72
      RKHenryposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      No not at all.  But am I correct in thinking that you know quite a bit about the Illuminati and the Masons? 

      I was just looking for insight on the groups positions and wanting your opinion.

    2. apeksha profile image46
      apekshaposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Which wise words?
      I am not getting for what u are thanking me?
      plz reply...

      1. Make  Money profile image74
        Make Moneyposted 10 years agoin reply to this

        From the previous page.  Sorry for being so long winded. smile

  3. Make  Money profile image74
    Make Moneyposted 10 years ago

    OH no, scary topic. big_smile

    1. RKHenry profile image72
      RKHenryposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      lol

  4. gamergirl profile image61
    gamergirlposted 10 years ago

    Earnesthub -

    Responding to anything Mohit, the Third Worst Poet in the World, says is a lesson in futility.  He is a self-proclaimed "enlightened poet" and only posts on Hubpages forums to try and advertise his "poetry" and tell everyone in the world that he's awesome and his poo smells like roses.  My advice is to disregard most of what he says as useless anyway.

    1. Mark Knowles profile image60
      Mark Knowlesposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      It is the Universe big_smile

      And don't forget Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings.

      1. countrywomen profile image57
        countrywomenposted 10 years agoin reply to this

        Good one Mark. After watching Hitchhikers guide I have a new found respect for Mice and Dolphins. Btw I wonder how cockroaches didn't make it to the list (since they are supposed to be the only creatures that can survive a nuclear holocaust) wink

    2. earnestshub profile image87
      earnestshubposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      That makes a lot of sense to me gamegirl. I guess I would have liked to offer other ideas, but as you say he is just pimping his stuff.

      1. mohitmisra profile image59
        mohitmisraposted 10 years agoin reply to this

        You are both blinded by arrogance.

        1. earnestshub profile image87
          earnestshubposted 10 years agoin reply to this

          It is not we who are arrogant.I don't claim to be the new divine and neither does gamegirl. You are full of it my my view.

          1. mohitmisra profile image59
            mohitmisraposted 10 years agoin reply to this

            I do claim and have proved it by getting ranked over Holy Bibles and Holy Qurans , but then these holy book mean nothing to you as you are too full of arrogance.

            1. earnestshub profile image87
              earnestshubposted 10 years agoin reply to this

              So anyone who disagrees with you, the great is arrogant??? How about just educated.

              1. mohitmisra profile image59
                mohitmisraposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                You are arguing with an  enlightened one who is ranked over Bibles and Qurans ,do you really think you have more spiritual knowledge than me.If so write a book and you can take game girls help and get ranked over my book. Till then only foolish and arrogant people will believe you over me.

                1. earnestshub profile image87
                  earnestshubposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                  The hubs would seem to indicate otherwise, and self praise is no praise at all.

                  1. mohitmisra profile image59
                    mohitmisraposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                    Libraries ranking my book over Bibles and Qurans is self praise for you.

                2. calebd profile image61
                  calebdposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                  Haha wow. You're seriously claiming you've sold more copies of your book than the Bible and the Quran? I'm astounded, I really am, by your claim that enlightenment and sales rankings are somehow correlated. I mean, if they were, that would make the woman that wrote Twilight pretty damn enlightened, don't you think?

                  Hmm looked you up on Amazon. Your sales ranking is #1,701,771 in Books. I guess there are exactly 1,701,770 more enlightened people out there, eh?

                  1. mohitmisra profile image59
                    mohitmisraposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                    No haven't sold more copies,just been ranked over them.
                    No I mean only an enlightened one can write and get ranked over Bibles and Qurans, unless Jesus and Mohammad were not enlightened . Look up Franklin and I have said it before its not by sales have started just ten years back,give me time and god willing will overtake them in sales as well.

  5. countrywomen profile image57
    countrywomenposted 10 years ago

    Sandra- Well by "vibrations" I meant sort of like energy. Anyway they are a good group and you being the SoCal girl sure must like them. And here is a "good vibration" for you smile http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nC2gZMNkyJo

    Earnesthub- Yes indeed they are wonderful and here is another one for you to enjoy.big_smile http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1FaflUn4Co

    1. earnestshub profile image87
      earnestshubposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Thank you countrywoman, most kind. I will go have a listen.

  6. Eric Graudins profile image59
    Eric Graudinsposted 10 years ago

    Crikey,

    It's deep enough in here to slop over the top of my gum boots.
    Next time I visit I'll remember the waders. Or a submarine.

    1. Jewels profile image84
      Jewelsposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Eric, try going over to the Soul discussion - take your snorkel.

      1. Eric Graudins profile image59
        Eric Graudinsposted 10 years agoin reply to this

        OMG.
        How many of these threads are there?
        I don't know where they get the stamina!

        1. mohitmisra profile image59
          mohitmisraposted 10 years agoin reply to this

          big_smile  big_smile  big_smile

        2. Jewels profile image84
          Jewelsposted 10 years agoin reply to this

          I guess one fights to the death for the cause of self-righteous self preservation! smile

        3. calebd profile image61
          calebdposted 10 years agoin reply to this

          I'm procrastinating writing a paper. Mindless repetition's fun.

          1. Jewels profile image84
            Jewelsposted 10 years agoin reply to this

            LOL.  Yes, these religious discussions are very circular, but good for character building!

            1. earnestshub profile image87
              earnestshubposted 10 years agoin reply to this

              I think I will leave this mad cycle now, there is no way to reach fanatics, and I already knew that, it is just infuriating to see this dribble go unchallenged.

              1. Jewels profile image84
                Jewelsposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                It had to be challenged because that dribble is dangerous to the gullible, and unfortunately it's quite dangerous to the dribbler, if only that could be seen by the dribbler as much as it has been seen by hub readers.

                I was initially hurt by the insults from the Soul discussion.  But the whole incident has made me feel amazingly good and centered.  Perhaps I'm closer to enlightenment than I thought smile (I am jesting in case Mr Mohit takes a stab at that one!)

                1. earnestshub profile image87
                  earnestshubposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                  I sincerely believe you are becoming enlightened Jewel, you take the hard road, and I believe the self knowledge you seek is very courageous. Not everyone can think for themselves as you do.Like you I do not claim to know, just to seek.

                2. mohitmisra profile image59
                  mohitmisraposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                  You do have good understanding of spirituality but its only after enlightenment will you comprehend  it a lot better. You are on your path to enlightenment and I hope you see the light then we will connect much better.smile
                  I have called you a Jewel in the past in case you forgot. smile

                  1. Jewels profile image84
                    Jewelsposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                    I've seen and felt the light many times.  If only you could see your statement from a higher standpoint mohitmisra.  I seriously wish you well in your pursuits.

        4. Lady Guinevere profile image60
          Lady Guinevereposted 10 years agoin reply to this

          Try the ones that I started recently or in the past few months.  There are many and they all have arrogant people in them.  They try to show us that LOVE is the answer in their Gods but what they are really showing is the ignorance of what it really written in their Bibles and how nastly they can get.  It kind of turns people off, in a BIG way.  They preach or want to get people to believe ins someething good and all they seem to be doing is showing the bad side of things.

  7. Lady Guinevere profile image60
    Lady Guinevereposted 10 years ago

    Mohit,
    What is all this granduer about all of a sudden?  What are you talking aobut me copy and pasting stuff?  This stuff is not like you or the one that I used to know.  What gives?  I think that I am enlightened but I don't go around telling everyone that I am better than they are.  So you wrote a book---so have hundreds and thousands of others and in the same sense or subject matter that you have.  I don't recall any of them spouting off that they are better than anyone else.
    BTW these ARE my words and not copy and pasted anything.

    1. mohitmisra profile image59
      mohitmisraposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Unlike you as well to suddenly come onto me.Was debating with earnesthub and not you.The essence of the book is the same as all other spiritual books but every master comes and gives it a freshness for that age a unique perspective..

      Perhaps you should read the Bible to know what I am talking about.  Here is a specific group of verses for you to ponder on:


      1 Corinthians 12
      1And concerning the spiritual things, brethren, I do not wish you to be ignorant;

      2ye have known that ye were nations, unto the dumb idols -- as ye were led -- being carried away;

      3wherefore, I give you to understand that no one, in the Spirit of God speaking, saith Jesus [is] anathema, and no one is able to say Jesus [is] Lord, except in the Holy Spirit.

      4And there are diversities of gifts, and the same Spirit;

      5and there are diversities of ministrations, and the same Lord;

      6and there are diversities of workings, and it is the same God -- who is working the all in all.

      7And to each hath been given the manifestation of the Spirit for profit;

      8for to one through the Spirit hath been given a word of wisdom, and to another a word of knowledge, according to the same Spirit;

      9and to another faith in the same Spirit, and to another gifts of healings in the same Spirit;

      10and to another in-workings of mighty deeds; and to another prophecy; and to another discernings of spirits; and to another [divers] kinds of tongues; and to another interpretation of tongues:

      11and all these doth work the one and the same Spirit, dividing to each severally as he intendeth.

      12For, even as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of the one body, being many, are one body, so also [is] the Christ,

      13for also in one Spirit we all to one body were baptized, whether Jews or Greeks, whether servants or freemen, and all into one Spirit were made to drink,

      14for also the body is not one member, but many;

      15if the foot may say, `Because I am not a hand, I am not of the body;' it is not, because of this, not of the body;

      16and if the ear may say, `Because I am not an eye, I am not of the body;' it is not, because of this, not of the body?

      17If the whole body [were] an eye, where the hearing? if the whole hearing, where the smelling?

      18and now, God did set the members each one of them in the body, according as He willed,

      19and if all were one member, where the body?

      20and now, indeed, [are] many members, and one body;

      21and an eye is not able to say to the hand, `I have no need of thee;' nor again the head to the feet, `I have no need of you.'

      22But much more the members of the body which seem to be more infirm are necessary,

      23and those that we think to be less honourable of the body, around these we put more abundant honour, and our unseemly things have seemliness more abundant,

      24and our seemly things have no need; but God did temper the body together, to the lacking part having given more abundant honour,

      25that there may be no division in the body, but that the members may have the same anxiety for one another,

      26and whether one member doth suffer, suffer with [it] do all the members, or one member is glorified, rejoice with [it] do all the members;

      27and ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.

      28And some, indeed, did God set in the assembly, first apostles, secondly prophets, thirdly teachers, afterwards powers, afterwards gifts of healings, helpings, governings, divers kinds of tongues;

      29[are] all apostles? [are] all prophets? [are] all teachers? [are] all powers?

      30have all gifts of healings? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?

      31and desire earnestly the better gifts; and yet a far excelling way do I shew to you:

  8. Bob Cedar profile image57
    Bob Cedarposted 10 years ago

    Let he who has not copied and pasted cast the first stone, by pressing Alt+Shift+Spacebar+S

  9. Elynjo profile image60
    Elynjoposted 10 years ago

    Being Judgmental especially when it comes to one's beliefs is really contemptible. I once read this hub and I participated by "responding on it" what did I get? Being lectured and judged upon as "not following the Commandments of God". Funny thing is these are the same people who think they are perfect and following God's words.

  10. profile image55
    prince1244posted 10 years ago

    Wow, its that religion thing again. Spiderpam, people do not like being preach to. We should live our lives by example. It  pays to be the quite follower.

    1. belief713 profile image73
      belief713posted 10 years agoin reply to this

      I started reading this thread, but it's really long so I jumped to the end & read what the recent posts said. I'm sure I missed some important arguments in between, but I wanted to comment.


      I do somewhat agree with this. While I do think Christians should share the gospel and the good news, often times, without realizing it, many do it by condemning and judging, which is just as wrong as the person they may be trying to "save." Although we (as Christians) sometimes like to tell others about their consequences, but many non believers (meaning in God in this sense) only view such as a "scare tactic" and therefore don't respect it. Think about how and what saved you... was it the idea that you were going to hell or was it something more along the lines of the fact that God has mercy on you, loves you, and cares for you? Just food for thought...



      Being the quiet follower & just setting a good example sometimes does pay off & work just as effectively. As long as you are doing it in the name & to the glory of Jesus. What many Christians fail to realize or believe is that they have to save everyone. They forget about a few other things, like free will and the fact that they may only be the person to plant the seed. Just because you planted the seed does not necessarily mean you are responsible for growing that same seed. By doing so, you can sometimes do more harm than good. That's a life lesson I've been learning, even as of late. It's not easy because we have a thing in us that we selfishly want to fill and say "I'm the one who saved that person or brought them to God" but that's not the whole design.

      To all non-believers, on behalf of Christians, I'm willing to stand in proxy and ask you to try to forgive them for judging you, for they too will be judged. As someone else commented, no one is perfect. I know how it feels to be harshly judged and it can be a major (if not the only) turn off. And just because you are saved does not mean you have the right or authority to get all self-righteous and now start pointing out other people's flaws. I too have harshly been judged by Christians and therefore can identify with non-believers because I walked away from God at one point, being judged was much of the reason.

      I'm sure non-believers have their own beliefs and justified reasons as to why they don't believe in God, and I respect it. Do I agree with it? No. But do I try to push my belief on others? I don't feel as though I do. I, personally, try to lead by example & so far it's worked for me because actions always speak louder than words.

      For example: Instead of handing flyers out to someone you feel needs to be saved and telling them about how wrong they are and how they'll go to hell if they don't repent and get saved, try asking them for what they need and want (out of life) and then ask them if you can pray for them (and pray for what they just told you they needed/wanted). This is a much greater ministry testifying God's Word than any track can provide. Just my 2 cents.

      1. Lady Guinevere profile image60
        Lady Guinevereposted 10 years agoin reply to this

        Okay   I agree to a point.  What is the difference between a believer who goes by the Bible--the ONLY Holy book that they will look at or believe and a believer who doesn't put lots of faith in that book, but does of God and Jesus?

  11. usmanali81 profile image61
    usmanali81posted 10 years ago
  12. frogyfish profile image80
    frogyfishposted 10 years ago

    I began by reading a couple of pages of posts, and the further I read, the more disturbed I felt.  I do not think there is a place for this 'verbal' assault on a person just because you happen to totally disagree with their religious views. It seems to me that disagreement could still be done with kindness. I saw no genuine suggestions that were positive, but just negative commenting. Perhaps there is something behind the 'whole picture' expressed, that one doesn't fully perceive and it's eating on you...?  In any case, one way or another, we'll all eventually find out! Thanks for 'listening' to my view too.

 
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