WHAT IS TRUTH? TRUTH SEEKERS WELCOME

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quietnessandtrustposted 14 years ago
ANSWERS?
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  mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  "Behold but one in all things, It is the second that leads you astray." Kabir
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  andromidaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  truth is a circle whose circumference is full of real facts.It up to you to fill up your circumferences with different real facts.
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  anjalichughposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Who knows what is 'Truth'. All of us have our individual connotations and we like to hold on to them while attempting to prove others wrong. Who knows what is right and what is wrong! Its all a human perception which again is nothing but an illusion.
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  quietnessandtrustposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  THE TRUTH is not human, has no illusion, sees all things, knows all things, reveals all things.
  
  THE REAL TRUTH has NOTHING to do with "YOUR" individual connotations because HE dwells far above them and does not receive consulting from any creature. HE IS ALL WISE and ALL POWERFUL.
  
  Human perception is an illusion, THE TRUTH does NOT perceive as they do, HE discerns all things and cannot be fooled.
  
  "who knows what the TRUTH is?" THE WORDS OF GOD ARE THE TRUTH. The MIND of Messiah speak HIS WORDS and HE gives that mind to HIS people to speak HIS TRUTH.
  
  The Word was first,
  The Word was before time began
  The Word present to God
  God was present to the Word.
  The Word was God,
  in readiness for God from day one.
  
  Everything was created through him;
  nothing—not one thing!—
  came into being without him.
  What came into existence was Life,
  and the Life was Light to live by.
  The Life-Light shines the darkness;
  the darkness cannot put it out.
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Paragliderposted 14 years ago
Did you start this thread because to want to consider others' views or because you want to tell us the answer?
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  RooBeeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Now you know the answer to that, don't you - the TRUTH, if you will.
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  quietnessandtrustposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Your point of view is welcome
  
  What is truth?
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  Paragliderposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  OK. Within tautological fields (like arithmetic) truth by definition is that which can be proven true by the fundamental axioms.
  
  In metaphysical fields there is no proof of truth. People make statements (e.g. SirDent's statement above) that are expressions of faith. As such, they may or may not be true. No-one can tell.
  
  In scientific areas, we don't deal with truth. We proceed by falsification. That which cannot (yet) be falsified might be true, but there is no need to believe it. Just use it if it's useful until it is replaced by a better approximation.
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  Marisa Wrightposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Exactly
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  Mishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  As I keep saying over and over again, 1+1 does not always equal 2. Therefore those are not absolute truths either.
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  aka-djposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  What universe is that in?
  Try convincing the banks or the tax office!
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  Paragliderposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry Misha - 'within a tautological field' there is absolute truth by definition, but the operative word is 'within'. No-one is pretending that Cartesian Geometry holds for all space.
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  Mishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  OK, you are right. Too much wine already I guess
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  Paragliderposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hey, this is the religion forum - no-one ever says that!
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  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Very true, except those of us that are humble enough to learn.
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  quietnessandtrustposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  John 2
  1ON THE third day there was a wedding at Cana of Galilee, and the mother of Jesus was there.
  
  2Jesus also was invited with His disciples to the wedding.
  
  3And when the wine was all gone, the mother of Jesus said to Him, They have no more wine!
  
  4Jesus said to her, [[a]Dear] woman, what is that to you and to Me? [What do we have in common? Leave it to Me.] My time (hour to act) has not yet come.(A)
  
  5His mother said to the servants, Whatever He says to you, do it.
  
  6Now there were six waterpots of stone standing there, as the Jewish custom of purification (ceremonial washing) demanded, holding twenty to thirty gallons apiece.
  
  7Jesus said to them, Fill the waterpots with water. So they filled them up to the brim.
  
  8Then He said to them, Draw some out now and take it to the manager of the feast [to the one presiding, the superintendent of the banquet]. So they took him some.
  
  9And when the manager tasted the water just now turned into wine, not knowing where it came from--though the servants who had drawn the water knew--he called the bridegroom
  
  10And said to him, Everyone else serves his best wine first, and when people have drunk freely, then he serves that which is not so good; but you have kept back the good wine until now!
  
  11This, the first of His signs (miracles, wonderworks), Jesus performed in Cana of Galilee, and manifested His glory [by it He displayed His greatness and His power openly], and His disciples believed in Him [adhered to, trusted in, and relied on Him].(B)
  
  HIS first miracle was to make approximately 180 gallons of wine.
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  quietnessandtrustposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  ? Question ?
  
  When one man and one woman are joined together in marriage and become one flesh, are the 2 still 2 or 1 ???
  
  In Hebrew this is known as Echad (the "ch" is pronounced like a German would)
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  Paragliderposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  In English it's known as semantics.
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  quietnessandtrustposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  So, do you know anything to be the truth about>>>>> anything ???...at all ???
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The truth is that...For every action (or decision) there are multipal posabilities of outcomes (future realities) And for every action ther is a equal but opposit reaction. Thus a potential of multipal truths
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  quietnessandtrustposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  There is one action that does NOT have "multiple responsibilities"
  
  So your truth has an error in it professor.
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  quietnessandtrustposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  4 mis-spelled words in one paragraph?
  
  Spell check broken?
  
  After all, if you do not spell words correctly, a whole world of multiple possibilities could be drawn.
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  Paragliderposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I'm sorry you did not understand my reply. And as I've previously intimated, your use of odd colours and typographical effects merely emphasises your lack of substance.
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  hubby7posted 14 years agoin reply to this
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  underhiswingsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Scientists will never know all of the truth, they are only men, made from dust, frail and weak.
  
  The Truth transcends any man.
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  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I think you pretty much own the thread after this statement. He has no will to learn, only teach.
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  Paragliderposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That is certainly my impression to date. But I've answered his question, so let's see if he agrees with me or not
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  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You have excellent individual ideas to share. If he has any intelligence, he will not answer your questions. He refuses anothers intelligence in something he does not know in his arrogance of only what he "assumes" to know.
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  candice5posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The latter:)
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SirDentposted 14 years ago
God and Him alone is truth.
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BrianFanslauposted 14 years ago
anything that is an absolute
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  quietnessandtrustposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Is an absolute lie..."truth?"
  
  Other than to say
  "he told the truth when he admitted he lied"
  
  Did he not "still tell a lie?"
  
  Can one "lie" about "the truth?"
  
  Does "anything absolute"...mean it is "truth?"
  
  Or can we say "we have ABSOLUTE TRUTH and ABSOLUTE LIES?"
  
  I mean, if we are talking in absolute terms
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aka-djposted 14 years ago
A crime is committed. A suspect is interviewed, who denies the accusation. No evidence is strong enough for prosecution. No proof will ever surface.
What is the truth? Did the suspect do it?
Somebody did it! Will the truth ever be found. Does the truth exist?
Is there "justice"?
If there is NO ultimate/absolute truth, it should not matter either if there is a truth, or whether or not justice is achieved (or not).
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  Paragliderposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  aka-dj - justice is based on proof "beyond reasonable doubt". That is pragmatism. But justice sometimes miscarries. That is unfortunate
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  aka-djposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Ye Ye! BUT, what's the truth? We may not know it, nor be able to prove it, but that does NOT deny it's existence.
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  Paragliderposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  In the case of a crime, we can know that something definitely happened though we may not know exactly what. I see where you're heading, but a statement like "God spoke to Moses from a burning bush" doesn't prove the existence of God. (Or were you taking it somewhere else?
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  quietnessandtrustposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Let's say that GOD "is real"...just for a second so the question can be asked of you OK?
  
  If GOD appeared to you and told you that HE IS THE TRUTH...would you believe HIM???...or ask for "proof?"
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  Paragliderposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  If he was convincing, I'd believe him. Why not? But I'm not holding my breath. It hasn't happened this last 56 years.
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  underhiswingsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That's heavy. As they use to say back in the day.
  
  I wonder what "convincing" you would need?
  What would He have to do to "convince" you?
  How many questions would you ask of said God?
  Can you state any of your questions here?
  I mean, if this was to really happen between you and said God, would you NOT want to be ready to be convinced?
  NOT have all of your questions lined up so you did NOT look silly and ill prepared?
  
  If you had some really great questions, He might even make the other people wait if He was really stumped by them.
  
  He only has so much time you know, 6 billion people and all.
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  Paragliderposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Evidence, as distinct from scripture, would be a start.
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  Bibowenposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  If you need a start, how about it is more likely that the universe was created than that it always existed or simply came into being, uncaused, out of nothing. That, of course, does not prove Jesus is Lord, but it does point to an originator of the universe at some point in the finite past.
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  Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I respectfully disagree Bibowen, spontaneous combustion is a well known phenomenon often caused by oily rags or damp organic material rotting. No intervention by man nor deity is necessary for flames to erupt. No originator is required for this to happen. The same goes for the universe.
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  Bibowenposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  But in your example, you have materials from which the combustion occurs. It is not "from nothing." Furthermore, the oily rags are created. Offering organic material rotting begs the question. Organic materials are a part of that universe which I'm suggesting could not have come into existence out of nothing.
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  underhiswingsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It is interesting that a human being can spontaneously burst into flames while walking down the street, sitting in the house or driving the car and NOTHING is left of them but ashes and virtually nothing around them catches fire either.
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  mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spontaneou … combustion
  
  Spontaneous human combustion (SHC) is the burning of the human body without an external source of ignition. There is speculation and controversy regarding SHC. There are about 200 cited cases[1] worldwide over a period of around 300 years; however, most of the alleged cases are characterised by the lack of a thorough investigation, or are based on hearsay. In many of the more recent cases, where photographic evidence is available, it is alleged that there was an external source of heat present (often cigarettes), and nothing occurred "spontaneously."
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  underhiswingsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Interesting that you use the first paragraph from a web site and stop. Did you also visit the other 123,000 that got hits on the web sir?
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  mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yes but you need carbon and oxygen for the combustion, who created these elements.?
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  underhiswingsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Do YOU know the answer to your own Q. ?
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  mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Do you think I am ranked over the Bible because I am and idiot?
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  underhiswingsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  When you can speak things into existence.....you can talk about rank.
  Until then...........
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  mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  What?
  Can you get ranked over the Bible with your gibberish.?
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  underhiswingsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I'm going to ask you one simple question and the answer is either a yes or a no...understand? Good.
  
  Is Yashuah Ha' Meshiach (Jesus The Christ)
  The only way of salvation?
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  mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  OFF COURSE NOT ,MANY GAINED SALVATION BEFORE HE CAME ON THIS PLANET
  MANY GAINED ENLIGHTENMENT AFTER HE CAME TO THIS PLANET AND FOLLOWED THE TEACHING OF SOME OTHER MASTER OR LIKE ME I HAD NO MASTER.
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  underhiswingsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  NOT believing He is the only Way...means you are deceived.
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  mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  How can and enlightened poet who has spend years of his life writing spreading god knowledge, got ranked over Bibles, Qurans and the Bhagwat Gita be deceived?
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  underhiswingsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I am the way the truth and the life and no man can come to God accept through Me.
  
  x Jesus The Christ Son of The Living God Most High
  
  Anyone not believing this is deceived.
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  mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You are a fanatic, that's all.
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  underhiswingsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  DID ANY ONE OF THEM DIE FOR YOUR SINS? y / n ??? Answer needed.
  
  None of them were perfect.
  None of them were blameless.
  None of them were able to speak things into existence.
  None of them were all wise and all knowing and all powerful.
  none of them were in possession of all authority.
  None of them were born of a virgin.
  None of them were the only Son of God.
  None of them were able to say that God was they're Father.
  none of them were able to say they existed with God in the beginning.
  None of them were able to always do the will of God without question.
  None of them were able to say "I AM the Resurrection and the LIFE."
  None of them were able to say "no man comes to The Father accept through Me."
  
  And none of them raised them self from the dead to be alive forevermore.
  
  That is why The Messiah The Only Son of God is able to offer salvation and nobody else can do it.
  The others all teach that there are "many ways", Only One taught that there is but...
  
  One Way.
  DID ANY ONE OF THEM DIE FOR YOUR SINS? y / n ??? Answer needed
  
  xJesus
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  mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/19162?page=2#post301317
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No! accepting the ala denteness of FSM is.
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  underhiswingsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Rom 1:19 For the truth about God is known to them instinctively. God has put this knowledge in their hearts.
  Rom 1:20 From the time the world was created, people have seen the earth and sky and all that God made. They can clearly see his invisible qualities-his eternal power and divine nature. So they have no excuse whatsoever for not knowing God.
  Rom 1:21 Yes, they knew God, but they wouldn't worship him as God or even give him thanks. And they began to think up foolish ideas of what God was like. The result was that their minds became dark and confused.
  Rom 1:22 Claiming to be wise, they became utter fools instead.
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  Paragliderposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  These are not the only alternatives, and no, it does not point to a creator.
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  Bibowenposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well, you can offer another alternative if you wish, but based on what I've said, it does point to an initial designer of the universe. Either metaphysically or physically, it doesn't seem possible that material objects can come into existence from nothing. The universe is a material entity. It is more plausible that it came into existence from a Being that willed its creation.
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  Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  What makes you think the universe came from nothing? There is no evidence of this happening. Just because we do not know how the universe came into being it does not follow that a deity created it. There is way more proof of evolution than this theory of a creator. Why, as you say in your theory, is this more likely?
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  mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Thoughts materialized this universe, our thoughts when we were one with god.
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  Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  And the evidence for your claims?
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  mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No scientific evidence as its beyond the grasp of science, I know it for myself as I have experienced it.
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  Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
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  Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I doubt you were around when the universe was created.
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  mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I still know that I materialized myself and my true nature is the Light or god.
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  underhiswingsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You no more "materialized yourself" or "are the Light"
  anymore than you gave yourself breath and can make your heart beat.
  
  Next you will say that "I spoke and the world came into being"
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  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I really think you should write Dr. Phil.
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  underhiswingsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  He would only be more confused.
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  mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I am the Light is something everyone will understand and state with time.
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  underhiswingsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The Light can speak things into existence...and you?
  The Light can walk on water...and you?
  The Light can make you a mute in 1 second...and you?
  
  careful how you answer that.
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  mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Have you been one with the Light?
  Are you saying Jesus was a liar when he said god or the Light is within everyone.
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  underhiswingsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The Light can speak things into existence...and you?
  The Light can walk on water...and you?
  The Light can make you a mute in 1 second...and you?
  
  careful how you answer that.
  
  Just answer the question
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  mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  In this case Jesus was a liar for saying god or the light is within everyone.
  Have you seen the Light, become the Light?
  Just answer the question
  Have you heard that god is omnipresent - meaning existing in all things.?
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The sauce can make the noodles delectable.
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The pasta can make the water starchy.
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  Eric Graudinsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I believe that Mohit actually created the universe.
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  mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  We co-create and at the same time all is me.
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  If you believe in God you're God's partner. As I don't believe I created my own business
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  mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I not only believe but know the source of all which is god the light as I died and came back while meditating.
  How did your business start? or how was your business created?
  There has to be some connection.
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry ! I couldn't help it. You saying were a co- creator with God. Only Joking . I'm a joker Don't take it personally, you know I respect your belief
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  mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yes I know you are just fine .
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  underhiswingsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  And your evidence for your statement?
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  mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Have a look at my profile you will find enough evidence.
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  underhiswingsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  23. "If you have only a thimbleful of experience, then please do not share with me from your barrel-full of opinions.
  
  Thank you.
  
  If you want to fill a larger container with understanding, wisdom and knowledge, then realize why you have 2 ears and only 1 mouth"
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  mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Have you looked at my profile? I doubt it.
  Tell me with all your so called wisdom can you write a book and get ranked over the Bibles?
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  underhiswingsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Correct, and that is why it has so many errors.
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  Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Easy to say, impossible to prove.
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  underhiswingsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  God had no man co-create with Him.
  
  "all is me".....Nope, wrong again, God is ALL, and "you" are only you and without Him you would cease to exist. You do NOT keep "you" alive.
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  XTASISposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I'm alive ! Or maybe i'm a ghost ?
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  underhiswingsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You are alive as long as The One who gave you the breath of life allows you to keep said breath in said lungs.
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  mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The kingdom of god is withing-Jesus
  Means my inner being is god.
  Be still ,drop your ego and find out who you are.
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  underhiswingsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  He created YOUR universe as evidenced by YOUR wisdom.
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  underhiswingsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I thought you did NOT believe it was created.
  So why do you doubt about something you are "sure" of?
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  Bibowenposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Our experience would be one line of evidence. We don't see things coming into being from nothing. We also do not expect them to in our normal experience. If you want us to abandon our intuition and our experience that events must have causes, you're going to have to provide a sufficient reason to do so. Otherwise, the claim that the universe would need a creator is the best explanation.
  
  Also, it does not appear that the universe has always existed, but rather had a beginning in the finite past. Most physicists hold to this view.
  
  As for evolution, it offers a story as to how life began; it's irrelevant to this discussion. What is it from the story of evolution that you want to suggest offers an explanation for the beginning of the universe?
  
  Besides, I believe I have offered the best explanation for why anything exists at all given our available evidence: namely, that an omniscient Being created the universe.
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  mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  If you want us to abandon our intuition .
  Intuition so very important and absolutely no explanation for this.Comes to you from nowhere and at times makes no sense.
  This intuition is what man needs to cultivate, will cultivate and begin to depend on it more and more with time.
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  underhiswingsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It is really quite very, very, very simple.
  God spoke and all things came into existence.
  So it was not created out of "nothing" rather it was created by speaking.
  
  There is a universe of difference between having faith "in God" and then having the faith "of God"
  
  He only needs to speak to create, all others need things to create with.
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  L. Andrew Marrposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Creatio Ex Nihilo is a valid philosophical idea. However, as is Darwin's theory on evolution. The hebrews got around this idea by saying that God created everything out of nothing instantaneously; however, because he exists out of time and space his instantaneous could take millions of years from a human point of view.
  
  I don't know what that has to do with Truth but I thought I would try and solve that debate with a typical - "well you could both be right."
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  Bibowenposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I missed your first sentence (sorry). What I'm claiming is that, if reality is only physical, the universe could not have come into existence out of nothing. If you are a naturalist, that's what you have to believe (unless you believe that the universe always existed which is also fraught with problems).
  
  Since a natural explanation for the beginning of the universe is not forthcoming, we are within our epistemic rights to seek a supernatural one. The best explanation I've heard is that "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth."
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  This is the most sensible thing you have said, so I would like to interject here (sorry Mohit) and point out a logical problem. The problem is that you are making a rather large range of assumptions:
  
  1. There was a beginning
  2. There is a god
  3. There is a heaven
  4. Everything was created
  5. In the absence of a natural, rational explanation (of which there are several) it is necessary to "seek a supernatural one."
  6. The earth was created in the "beginning," which clearly it was not and there is scientific evidence against the earth being "created" in it's current form at the "beginning"
  
  You have no evidence for 1-4, and have chosen to dismiss the scientific evidences for 5-6 because you have already made assumptions 1-4.
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  underhiswingsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Were you NOT created by the coming together of a sperm and an egg?
  
  Or did you come from NOTHING too?
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  underhiswingsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Did YOU make your breath?
  How can it be yours then?
  Did you form your body as well?
  Make yourself while in the womb?
  Keep yourself alive?
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  Bibowenposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I'm not sure whether you read all that I said on this topic. There was some additional material about 2 posts up from the one you copied. So, some of it is repeated in the explanation below.
  
  I'll concede #3 at this point because my point was not to make a statement about a "earth" as the planet and "heaven" as "the abode of God." I used it in the sense of "earth--the world below" and "heaven--the world above." So "the heaven and the earth" would be "the universe." So, I’m not even interested in discussing #6 because it is not relevant to the point I was making about the initial cause of the universe.
  
  I did offer an explanation which, I believe rivals any that I've heard, namely, that the universe needed a creator because
  
  It was either created or not created.
  
  What I dealt with was the second part, the claim that “the universe was not created.” As I see it, if it was not created then either
  
  1. It came into being from nothing (or)
  2. It has always existed.
  
  As for #1, we don't see things coming into being from nothing. We also do not expect them to in our experience. Furthermore, this failure for things to simply wink into existence from nothing bears out in all our experiences. It wins 100% of the time. So, if you want us to abandon our intuition and our experience that events must have causes, you're going to have to provide a sufficient reason to do so and a better defeater than mere skepticism.
  
  So, I have what I believe sufficient evidence to deny that the universe could come from nothing, that it could just wink into existence.
  
  As for #2, I believe the idea of an infinite universe is absurd. Eternality has no existence in our universe. When it comes to the physical world, the eternal is just an idea.
  
  So, I believe the claim that "the universe was not created" is false and defeated. The other alternative is that it was created. Here, God is the best explanation given that the universe would need a timeless, changeless agent to bring the universe into existence.
  
  Finally, you said in your #5 that there are several rational explanations to explain the origin of the universe. I would like to read what they are.
  
  This is already too long so I'll stop for the moment.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Assumptions that start with the premise that there is a god and a heaven. EVen assuming your "deduction" is correct that there is a creator - how on earth do you then deduce a heaven?
  
  This is not rational deduction.
  
  LOL Once again - irrational belief rather than logical deduction. Things do not "wink" into existence, and we have never seen this happen, therefore an invisible god made it happen. And why should I provide a "defeater"? Oh that is correct - you already have an irrational belief - and will hang on to it until such times as there is absolute proof against it. There are any number of options.
  
  1. Something that we do not know about happened to cause the universe to be
  2. The universe has always been there and is expanding and contracting - in the same way everything else we see around us does
  3. The universe is not really there - we are just imagining it
  4. It grew organically - the same way everything else we observe does
  5. The universe was "created" by any number of possible invisible super beings - none of which are likely to be as petty as the christian god
  
  So, your 100% "win every time" argument only works if you already believe and are prepared to discard any and all evidence or ideas because you already know.
  
  Why do you "believe" an infinite universe is absurd, but are quite happy to "believe" you will live forever in heaven? Despite the fact that we observe death every day - you are hanging on to a belief that humans do not really die - the same as everything else does.
  
  Yes - you "believe" the claim is false and defeated. But that is not because it is - it is because you have to believe that or your irrational belief system will fall apart.
  
  And once again you are making assumptions.
  
  And what I have said is "there is not a creator and in the unlikely event that there is, I am 100% certain that you do not know anything about it."
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  underhiswingsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Rom 1:19       For the truth about God is known to them instinctively.[fn7] God has put this knowledge in their hearts.
  Rom 1:20    From the time the world was created, people have seen the earth and sky and all that God made. They can clearly see his invisible qualities-his eternal power and divine nature. So they have no excuse whatsoever for not knowing God.
  Rom 1:21    Yes, they knew God, but they wouldn't worship him as God or even give him thanks. And they began to think up foolish ideas of what God was like. The result was that their minds became dark and confused.
  Rom 1:22    Claiming to be wise, they became utter fools instead.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yes. Thank you. I agree with this one 100%.
  
  What a shame you do not understand to whom it applies
  
  Please do not speak to me again, I have no interest in the lies and hatred that you spread. I have already been persuaded that your magikal invisible super being does not exist and do not need any more persuading.
  
  Thank you.
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  underhiswingsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Checkmate
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hardly! Mark has been here for ages, has written heaps of intelligent hubs, and has a very good understanding of many religious beliefs. You on the other hand, just cut and paste your beliefs from one source that has created 300 odd religions as none of you can agree to it's meaning. You have written nothing, and in my view created less than nothing.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  Well, this is just a sock puppet for the last religionist. I really don't understand why they think hiding behind user names like "quietness and trust" and "under his wings" and then behave in this fashion will spread their religion.
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  underhiswingsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I'm going to ask you one simple question and the answer is either a yes or a no...understand? Good.
  
  Is Yashuah Ha' Meshiach (Jesus The Christ)
  The only way of salvation?
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Is THE TRUTH a raving lunatic?
  
  Just answer the question.
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  Paragliderposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  OK, I'll waste one more post on you, to explain begging the question.
  You insist on a yes or no to a question "Is JC the only way of salvation"
  I can answer neither yes nor no because to answer at all implies that there is such a thing as salvation.
  Your question assumes at least half of its own answer.
  That's begging the question - understand?
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  underhiswingsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Then you shall die in your sin.
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  Paragliderposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Better than in your skin, my 'friend'
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  Bibowenposted 14 years agoin reply to this
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I did not argue against that - I argued against your assumption that because things do not "wink" into existence therefore you assume a creator. Things do not come from nothing - but they do not have to have a creator. This is the fallacy of your reasoning.
  
  In all our experiences, everything dies never to be reborn. This is true 100% of the time. 100% of the people who have died do not come back to life.
  
  "Things do not come from nothing, therefore there is a creator who makes them." Does not make any sense or hold any weight as an argument.
  
  I am quite happy with "I don't know." I do not need to invent something to justify my irrational belief system. You are the one who has an unprovable, untestable answer.
  
  Sorry - saying "that is absurd," does not deal with it. A god is absurd. LOL
  
  How do you know this is not true?
  
  I never said any such thing. There is good evidence that organic matter can come our of inorganic if the conditions are right. Eventually this will be proven. But what I said was "organically," as in "naturally." You cannot know that this did not happen, therefore cannot assume a creator.
  
  I never argued any such thing, and I am not prepared to jump to the irrational belief that you have. "Physical entities cannot come from nothing, therefore a god must have magicked them into existence," just doesn't work for me.
  
  The reason you think there was "nothing," to begin with is what?
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  Bibowenposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  In summary, based on the unlikelihood that the universe always existed or that it simply winked into existence, and given your 5 (really only two, but I gave you the last one so that makes 3) "alternatives," I think we're on good grounds in offering (based on elimination, not assumption as you keep repeating) the best explanation that the universe came into existence in the finite past and that it needed a creator.
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  Susana Sposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I'm sorry to break it to you but you are quite wrong there. In the quantum world of the very small it's very possible for something to come from nothing.
  
  There's more to knowledge than what we simply experience. You cannot "experience" the quantum world - you cannot feel or sense the atoms and their component particles in your body but they are there doing their thing nevertheless.
  
  If you want to understand "reality" maybe you should broaden your scope of learning.
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  mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I'm sorry to break it to you but you are quite wrong there. In the quantum world of the very small it's very possible for something to come from nothing.
  
  Its the truth spirituality is saying for a long time that thoughts create or materialize.
  God is also called the void.
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  Bibowenposted 14 years agoin reply to this
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  This is untrue - I have offered several viable alternatives and you have avoided all of my questions in favor of repeating yourself over and over again.
  
  You have not dealt with any of my arguments about anything other than to say "that is absurd," you have not provided any reasoning other than the fact that a creator is the most plausible explanation because you have to have an answer and "I don't know," is not good enough for you. I personally see nothing plausible about an invisible, timeless and changeless creator.
  
  So, I have 2 questions -
  
  1. Why do you think the universe must have had a beginning, and
  
  2. What exactly is "absurd," about the idea that things can come into being without divine intervention?
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  Bibowenposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  As for your "viable alternatives" they fail miserably. Your #1 is irrational to offer when offering answers. #3 is an act of desperation. But, I hope you keep offering it as a side-show exhibit. We can always pull out #3 in a last-ditch effort for a lost cause("well, may be none of this matters because, may be we don't exist"--the cosmic copout). And I have given you reasons for rejecting #'s 2&4.
  
  As for God's characteristics: He is a spiritual being. There's nothing implausible about him being invisible. As for timelessness and changelessness, you would need such a being to bring both time and change into existence.
  
  As for your two questions:
  
  #1 For reasons I have already stated. The universe could not have survived eternity to arrive in its present state (given entropy, its energy would have been expended in eternity past) and, regardless of entropy, you can't get to eternity by successive addition. So, the universe (even if it had infinite energy, which is doesn't) could not have crossed the "plain of eternity" to arrive at the present moment. So if it did not exist in eternity past, it must have come into existence in the finite past.
  
  #2 Our experience tells us that effects have causes. A material cause for the beginning of the universe fails because anything material belongs to the universe. So, you can't use what's material (or "something") to explain the origin of the universe (like your inorganic to organic or unnatural to natural). Since a natural cause is not forthcoming, a supernatural cause is the best explanation.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Once again you have not provided any argument whatsoever to dispute them. Them "failing miserably" and calling it a "cosmic copout" when I never mentioned anything not mattering is not exactly an argument.
  
  Dude - stop giving your invisible super being characteristics you cannot possibly know even if it did exist. And then I will stop making digs at the religion you keep bringing up.
  
  Oh dear - and how does this allow you to jump to the conclusion that there is a creator involved exactly?
  
  Just how deep is your understanding of quantum physics? And do you know what is outside the universe? I have suggested several possibilities that do not include a creator - yet the best you can do is say they "fail miserably."
  
  If you have a rational argument other than "this is the only thing that makes sense to me because I already believe in a god," then please do so - because that is all you are doing. And rehashing the old entropic creation argument is not doing it either. Let's face it - this is a backwards argument based on the false assumption you are forced to make to justify your religious beliefs.
  
  And I still do not understand how you jump to this conclusion from the universe having a beginning. Whether it did or not is besides the point. If it did, it does not require an invisible being to start it. Unless you already believe in the invisible super being that is.
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  underhiswingsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  And what would be that evidence?
  Do you have any questions for said God if He were to appear to you?
  You would not want to be caught off guard.
  By the way, if said God were to show up, that WOULD be evidence that He in fact does exist correct?
  Hard proof NO?
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  Paragliderposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You seem to see god as some kind of inquisitor who can be caught off guard if you are ready with the first question.
  Yes, if he revealed himself convincingly (e.g. the description of Krisna manifesting himself to Arjuna), then yes I'd be convinced. But as I said before, I'm not holding my breath. I don't accept scripture as evidence.
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  mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It will happen to you Paraglider like it has happened with others.
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  underhiswingsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  "I'm not holding my breath"....It is NOT "yours" to hold.
  Did you give it to yourself?
  Did YOU make your breath?
  How can it be yours then?
  Did you form your body as well?
  Make yourself while in the womb?
  Keep yourself alive?
  
  Interesting God has a lot of questions for you, and you have none for Him.
  At least, none you are willing to write for all to see sir.
  It would appear that if you had a question, you could receive and answer and you would then have to believe, something you cannot do or will not do sir.
  
  "You seem to see god as some kind of inquisitor who can be caught off guard"...
  Well, can you show me where I said that "tongue in cheek" comment please? If I made it at all.
  
  Nope, incorrect, YOU / WE are the ones who are caught off guard. Nothing escapes an omniscient mind.
  
  So the important thing at this point is that you have been presented with 2 score questions during the last 2 days and have yet to answer 1.
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  Paragliderposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You ask me a load of questions and claim they are questions from god.
  
  Have you ever heard of begging the question?
  Do you know what it means?
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  quietnessandtrustposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I am glad that all such "miscarries" will have proper justice done eventually.
  
  Men cannot, juries cannot, sometimes will not, look at or see truth in court.
  
  Wherever men fail, justice will be carried out by THE TRUTH because THE TRUTH is JUSTICE
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  Paragliderposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  All you are doing is making assertions, in colour. You are way out of your depth here among people who have learned how to think. Goodnight
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  quietnessandtrustposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  NOTHING is deeper than THE MIND OF MESSIAH, nothing.
  HE will see to it that justice is done.
  
  The unspiritual self, just as it is by nature, can't receive the gifts of God's Spirit. There's no capacity for them. They seem like so much silliness. Spirit can be known only by spirit—God's Spirit and our spirits in open communion. Spiritually alive, we have access to everything God's Spirit is doing, and can't be judged by unspiritual critics. Isaiah's question, "Is there anyone around who knows God's Spirit, anyone who knows what he is doing?" has been answered: Christ knows, and we have Christ's Mind and His Spirit, if we believe in Him.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  <snipped personal attack> I am thinking you have it mixed up somewhere. I mean - wearing a dead dog's head as a necklace? I am pretty sure jesus would not have done that.
  
  Just ask yourself - WWJSUAC?
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  quietnessandtrustposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You are the 2nd atheist to ASS-ume that the dog is not real and is in fact dead, so I will answer the atheist like I did the other ASS-umer.
  
  Oh look mommy, a live dogie relaxing in the mans jacket, how cute.
  He must love that little dog mommy
  
  <snipped>
  Hummm...a choice of words coming from you that are not recommended for HUB PAGES eh?
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The Truth hurts huh?
  
  So - this dead dog - what made you kill it? And what are those you stuffed in it's eyeballs? Are they glass? Very realistic. Still not getting it though - where does it say in the bible to wear a dead dog around your neck? Did I miss that bit?
  
  Asked anyone to click on your google ads lately? Is that OK with jesus?
  
  WWJSUAC?
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Cue blue ink....................
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  quietnessandtrustposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  ANYONE can see that the dog is alive and hanging on NOTHING
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  underhiswingsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Oh my, resorting to such name calling, it's a wonder you can still post here, mercy me. Wow!
  After looking at what the guy said above your comment, I have no idea why you would say such a thing like this.
  "So why do you come across as such a ----?"
  I saw the original and you should be more than ashamed of your self sir.
  
  Please refrain from this kind of talk Mark.
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Eric Graudinsposted 14 years ago
Congratulations quietnessandrust.

You win the prize for the spammiest looking thread title EVER on Hubpages.

And do other Truth seekers also have to wear the head of a little dog on a rope around their necks ?
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  quietnessandtrustposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well? See the little dogie? Is the dogie real enough for ya?
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marinealways24posted 14 years ago
I think the only absolute truths that we know is that we are to learn, teach, grow, evolve.
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  world of the wiseposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  i dont think you are likely to turn into an animal, no evolution, so take heart my friend
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Mishaposted 14 years ago
Oops, sorry, you are right again. I will behave next time, I promise
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quicksandposted 14 years ago
The "truth" once more is whether GOD exists or not. Again the question arises as to whether proof can be shown of GOD's existence or non-existence. If he does exist (I believe he does, which is a different matter) what harm?

What can be done with the truth? Why do we, at this point need this so called absolute truth? If the "truth" is finally out, what gains can we expect? Who will change his lifestyle and to what extent?
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  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Why would someone have to change their lifestyle in a land of individualism and free will?
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  quicksandposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Ha! ha! ha! Why should they?
  
  What I really meant was, what changes can we expect and from whom?
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Mishaposted 14 years ago
Any changes you can really expect come from within.
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  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well Said! I fully agree. This is individualism.
  
  I think the "individual" is where the seperation comes between human and animal.
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  goodfriendiamposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Bravo!!! Misha, for your truth, and every ones own truth lies within. This is absolute. way to go. this is the proof, for only each of us holds the proof, no one can teach truth, only you can decide for yourself, if truth exist, and what that truth is.
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  quietnessandtrustposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  "no one can teach truth"
  
  How about THE TRUTH?
  
  Does THE TRUTH teach?
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  quicksandposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I really meant to ask why we need the truth! We're all doing pretty well without it!
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  Mishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Can you make up your mind?
  
  ***~~~WHAT IS TRUTH ???~~~***TRUTH SEEKERS WELCOME~~~***
  
  What I really meant was, what changes can we expect and from whom?
  
  I really meant to ask why we need the truth! We're all doing pretty well without it!
  
  Sounds pretty confusing what exactly answer you need...
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  quicksandposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The "truth" here obviously refers to the existence or non-existence of GOD. As for other truths, the truth about motion of matter has already been revealed by Sir Isaac Newton. The truth (most of it) about the qualities of light has been discovered by Al Einstein.
  
  When it comes to the truth in a court of law, available evidence influences human judgment, and this decision has to be accepted as the truth.
  
  The "truth" that is highlighted here is something that we have been living without, and we are managing pretty well.
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  quietnessandtrustposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  In a nutshell, what truth is being "highlighted" here?
  
  And exactly who is managing pretty well?
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  quicksandposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Who isn't?
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  quietnessandtrustposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  In a nutshell, what truth is being "highlighted" here?
  
  Answer is?...or did you "mis" the Q?
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  quietnessandtrustposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Those "changes" come after we learn and yield to THE TRUTH about the matter at hand.
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frogdroppingposted 14 years ago
The 'Truth' is simply the absence of lies.

Quite simple really.
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  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I think truth is what is determined as truth in the individual mind.
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  frogdroppingposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That is correct. But 'truth' is still the absence of lies.
  
  I'll never be convinced that a person doesn't realise that they're being untruthful. Unless they're ignorant of the thruth.
  
  But that's something different altogether.
  
  That's ignorance
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  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Nicely said. In ignorance, someone can believe anothers truth as their own sacrificing individual truth making them a follower.
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  frogdroppingposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Exactly
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Mishaposted 14 years ago
Oh thank you, bit I can't really take any credit for this, it's not my idea at all
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  goodfriendiamposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  very true, well said..
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Susana Sposted 14 years ago
There are many truths but here's one - everything changes
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  quietnessandtrustposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  THE TRUTH never changes.
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this
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  quietnessandtrustposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  THE TRUTH does not wear any.
  HE IS NOT A MAN that HE should need them
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quietnessandtrustposted 14 years ago
I opened this forum to SEE what others believed and thought the truth is and to read the opinions of others.

I am NOT THE TRUTH, THE TRUTH is THE TRUTH.

THE TRUTH posses ALL TRUTH and contains NO lies.

And as one has stated "wears the head of a little dog around his neck on a rope"

Here is the truth on that ass-umption.

Look Ma, no rope.
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quietnessandtrustposted 14 years ago
? Can ?

Can 2 "different"..."truths"...co-exist?

Or...is 1 a lie???
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Eaglekiwiposted 14 years ago
Jesus said "I am the Way ,the TRUTH ,and the Life.

As for me I am like a speck of sand
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quietnessandtrustposted 14 years ago
The non-spiritual self, just as it is by nature, can't receive the gifts of God's Spirit. There's no capacity for them. They seem like so much silliness. Spirit can be known only by spirit—God's Spirit and our spirits in open communion. Spiritually alive, we have access to everything God's Spirit is doing, and can't be judged by non-spiritual critics. Isaiah's question, "Is there anyone around who knows God's Spirit, anyone who knows what he is doing?" has been answered: Christ knows, and we have Christ's Mind and Spirit.
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  Eaglekiwiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Quietness you dont appear to be a well man?
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  quietnessandtrustposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Why are you asking yourself a question?
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  candice5posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  {color=red She is not a question mark is a gift to you.
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  quietnessandtrustposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You really DO need to use the "preview" option BEFORE you "submit"
  
  Did you want to try English?
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Eric Graudinsposted 14 years ago
There is no truth.

Apart from physical laws and physical events, all we have is perception.

Perception is everything.

One person may interpret a given piece of information and pronounce it "true"
Another person sees the same information, and says it is "false".

Whether something is true or false depends on the belief of the person expressing the opinion.
True and false are just labels we apply that give other people an indication of how we think.

(And why the hell this thread is in the religious forums is beyond me. Truth has nothing to do with Religion. And religion has very little to do with truth. )
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  quietnessandtrustposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  So, before I reply sir.
  
  You made an assumption about me and my dog.
  Any truth to it, now that you have seen the picture perhaps?
  Care to correct your statement of mockery???
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  Eric Graudinsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No. I'm not interested in correcting it.
  Everyone can see the truth for themselves.
  However, the small image you use as an avatar still looks to me like it is a dogs head attached to a scarf or a bit of rope.
  
  And the fact that you have even brought this up proves to me that you are just mucking around, and aren't interested in discussing this topic seriously.
  
  I have mentally filed your name under "W", and shall not bother responding to you again.
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  Bibowenposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Are these statements that you are making true or are they just perceptions?
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quietnessandtrustposted 14 years ago
In a nutshell, what truth is being "highlighted" here?

Answer???
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quietnessandtrustposted 14 years ago
Well it does NOT take much for you to cut and run.
Cowards are like you know, that's why in battle, if you cut and run during a fire fight, your own fellow soldiers shoot you as you run.

So run now, run, run quickly.
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quietnessandtrustposted 14 years ago
ANOTHER characteristic of a coward is that they cannot say "I was wrong in my ass-umption"...no matter what the assumption might have been. Having no courage to admit when they have been caught in any ass-uming, no matter how small or large, they just want to move on to the next opinion they have inside the cowardly wooden head that sits atop the skeleton they rattle around in !!!

And that "W" stands for WARRIOR !!!
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No, it could mean Waste of oxygen though!
  Don't feed the monkley folks, and he will just disappear up his own orifice.
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  quietnessandtrustposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Interesting how you said that the thread should be shut down and yet you keep coming back.
  
  I hear a contradiction....move along now
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Like I said, stop feeding the monkey folks!
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  quietnessandtrustposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Please bring some peanuts if you insist on coming back
  
  Hey, I bet when your mommy told you to stay away from the lions, you did not do as you were told.
  
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No but she did warn me about piss ants!
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  quietnessandtrustposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hummm....now in the last few minutes you have come to "feed the monkey" like 4 times now.
  
  Seems like you cannot follow your own instructions boy.
  
  You said about 9 times in the forums now.
  "Like I said, stop feeding the monkey folks!"
  
  You will be back Your a Curious George.
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  sandra rinckposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Is that how your god told you to act? Be rude to everyone who disagrees with you?
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  Spaghetti Monsterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Nay, quietnessandtrust.
  
  After reading through your responses in this thread, My judgement would be that the W stands for Wanker.
  
  My thoughts are that it is thou, my friend, who is a coward.
  You hide behind your fake name like a child behind the skirt of its mommy, while most of the people you attack have the courage to use their names.
  
  You are indeed a miserable creature, but I am sure that you can be saved through the ministries of the Flying spaghetti Monster.
  
  You are always welcome under the shelter of the Holy Spaghetti Bowl.
  
  RAmen.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Oh Great Noodly one. Answer my question please.
  
  Would you truly accept such a Worthless one under your Bowl? I mean - can you imagine his behavior when time came to divide the bill (Check in American). Yea verily I would expect such a one to deny the extra bottle of Chianti and four shots of Grappa. Not once, but three times as is foretold in the runes. Is he the one foretold? Because I would not trust such as he to be honest when the time came to pay.
  
  RAmen.
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  Spaghetti Monsterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Nobody is truly worthless. I trust you shall learn this as you progress further through the levels of the FSM en-noodlement.
  And besides, I need a muckraker in the stables, and I think that this one will be ideal, given his performance here.
  
  However, I agree with your assessment, and assure you that he would not be accompanying any of the normal members to any sort of eating establishment where the liquids of lubrication are served. And I would certainly keep the holy money belt firmly fastened whenever he was around.
  
  RAmen.
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sandra rinckposted 14 years ago
Christians monkey nose grows like Pinocchio.
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  Bibowenposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I think he's a distant relative of Jimmy Durante or Richard Nixon.
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quietnessandtrustposted 14 years ago

With a creation like that it's wonder you can say that GOD does NOT exist.
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  sandra rinckposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Listen carefully, I said YOUR god does not exist.
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  quietnessandtrustposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Listen even more carefully. HIS ANSWER IS...
  
  ONLY A FOOL SAYS IN HIS / HER HEART "THERE IS NO GOD" !!!
  
  Seems like you keep coming back to this simple point and conclusion.
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Bibowenposted 14 years ago
Look people, the Shrub has given you an order; stop feeding the monkey. Start aping him instead and depart.
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quietnessandtrustposted 14 years ago
No need to move to another point unless this one is changed in YOUR mind
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quietnessandtrustposted 14 years ago
Good-night
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Eaglekiwiposted 14 years ago
Why hasnt that loony been evicted yet??
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  Jane@CMposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Haha, maybe they see some value in the loony posting bin LOL
  
  And another forum to add "The Loony Bin"
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Mark Knowlesposted 14 years ago
Thank you oh Noodly one. I see the wisdom and truth of it. You are truly The One.

I forgot - even in heaven there needs to be some one to pick up the used Kleenexes on the stripper factory floor or muck out the stables. Wisdom indeed.

RAmen
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quietnessandtrustposted 14 years ago

@ paraglider

Oh and by the way para glider.

They're are some actions that when done, DO NOT have any chance of a multiple choice of out comes.

Can you name any?
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Jane@CMposted 14 years ago
Mark, are ya bored?
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Just going to bed actually.
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  Jane@CMposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Sleep well
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Randy Godwinposted 14 years ago
Nope, the dog is definitely dead, but he is hanging on NOTHING!
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  Bibowenposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It's appropriate that you placed the word "nothing" in caps (weren't you yelling at others for doing this earlier?) because it also signifies this post's contribution to the topic.
  
  Jesus' statement that He is the truth signifies that the truth is not just an abstraction, but that it is also personal. There is no eternal truth without Him.
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  Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Nope. wrong again. I yelled at no one just as I did not resort to name calling as you erroneously stated in another comment. You remember that thread don't you? You called Earnest "Boss Shrub" shortly after falsely accusing me of "name calling." A Christian hypocrite no less.
  
  And your last sentence- just your opinion. Where's your crony Loonie Toons today?
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  Bibowenposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  If you did not do as I accused you, I apologize and take it back. There were several that seemed to be put out by the change in lettering, the CAPS, etc., which I have maintained is irrelevant to the claims being made. I assumed you were one of them. My mistake.
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  Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you, apology accepted.
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Bibowenposted 14 years ago
Jesus is the truth. He said that he was the way the truth and the life. He vindicated his claims by his resurrection from the dead.
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Randy Godwinposted 14 years ago
Good, perhaps he'll do the same for the dog.LOL
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underhiswingsposted 14 years ago
What is truth?

Here are a handful of them, for one word does not define the truth.

The one and only true and living God rules and reigns.

He rules everything in heaven and on earth and under the earth.

He has no equal and loves His creation and longs to know them and that they know Him and worship Him in Spirit and in the truth.

He gave His life for the world and laid it down willingly, no man took it from Him.

He is everlasting, eternal, long on patients, slow to anger, merciful in judgment.

In Him we live, move and have our being.

He is the source of life and has all power, all love and all grace.

He gives and takes away and none can stay His hand. Blessed be His name.

Those are just a few of the truth's about The King of kings.
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easyspeakposted 14 years ago
Jesus said I am the Truth. Truth is embodied in a person.
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  underhiswingsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That is very true.
  Good to know someone else puts it in that manner, few do.
  The Truth is a Person, not "some thing"
  Good observation sir.
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Randy Godwinposted 14 years ago
Autumn doth approach as nuts drop heavily from neath the heavens.
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  underhiswingsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  He is also Lord over all of the seasons that we so dearly love.
  And nuts are a wonderful food that fall from the trees He also created for us to enjoy and receive nourishment from.
  Praise The Good Lord God. He bountifully gives food to all of His creation, even if some of them hate Him. He still like a good Father, feeds mankind.
  Just like when you at times did not like your parents, they always fed you.
  
  He love us.
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  Uninvited Writerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Whoosh!
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Susana Sposted 14 years ago
I think something that this discussion is missing is that truth exists without the need for humans. It existed before us - it will exist after us. Also truth could well be different in different dimensions.

As humans we may try to find the truths of existence, which is a worthwhile endevour, but that doesn't mean we will find them or interpret information correctly because our perceptual and intellectual equipment is fallible. Remember people used to think it was truth that the earth was the centre of the universe! I'm sure they were very convinced of this truth, unfortunately it wasn't truth at all. The truth that earth is not the centre of the universe already existed and was not dependent on us knowing it.

Personally I favour science, direct experience, constant questioning and critical evaluation as ways to get to the various thruths.
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Pearldiverposted 14 years ago
Ditto........ Well said Susana.
But I've always enjoyed watching as the 'Flat Earth' zealots, fall of the edge!!
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Susana Sposted 14 years ago
Hmmm they do have a way of doing that - only thing is they don't notice!
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  Eaglekiwiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  One of those cattle prods might work
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  Jane@CMposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  A cattle prod might be tough to get through the computer screen, but I think its worth a try
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  Eaglekiwiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  the thought alone was therapeutic
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cindyvineposted 14 years ago
Truth is a matter of perception. What is my truth might not be your truth.
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  underhiswingsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Perception is little more than an illusion and The Truth is neither of these.
  
  There is One who is Truth and nothing escapes His notice.
  
  He knows all things. He is NOT a man that He should have any darkness.
  
  Your truth, someone else's truth, my own truth, none of them are equal to The Truth. They might contain some of real truth, but always contain a lie as well, this is the illusion of human perception.
  
  The Truth is 100% Truth and is pure Truth.
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underhiswingsposted 14 years ago
Aimed @ Paraglider

"(e.g. the description of Krisna manifesting himself to Arjuna)"

Do you believe this really happened?
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  Paragliderposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No of course not. But the quality of poetry in the Gita far exceeds anything in the Bible. It's a good read.
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underhiswingsposted 14 years ago
Paraglider says: "then yes I'd be convinced. But as I said before, I'm not holding my breath. I don't accept scripture as evidence.

This ones reply is:
mohitmisra
3185 posts
Joined: 17 months ago
Hubs: 10
Fans: 106
"It will happen to you Paraglider like it has happened with others"

There now Paraglider, even he has hope for you sir.
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underhiswingsposted 14 years ago
Men create things, they DO NOT "create" themselves.

Neither did what we see "create itself"....NOTHING just "comes into being"
It is created, just like the sperm and egg that came together started the creation of you.

Men and women create art, music, cars, houses and families. This is done after it is "designed" first. Well thought out too, yes?

They DO NOT just "happen"

This is logic.
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Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years ago
Have underhiswings and quietnessandtrust ever appeared at the same time?? Hmmmmmmmmmm
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XTASISposted 14 years ago
I was going to post something, but it seems everybody is angry in this thread. I think religion is bad for the nerves. That's why I only believe in myself : to be happy . Ciao!
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  underhiswingsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Discussions can often be heated and heat refines the mind, riding it of impurities.
  So this is a good thing.
  
  No anger coming from this nobody.
  I have a saying, an original of mine, that came out of nothing as some would say, because it could not have been created. It goes like this.
  
  #17 "Iron sharpens iron and as we get closer it will be painful and without a source of great irritation, the oyster forms no pearls. So now, my friend, do I irritate you?......Good.....form a pearl will you?"
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XTASISposted 14 years ago
It lookslike nobody's home. You're wasting your energy, nobody's listening. Go home, baby, go home !
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  underhiswingsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  In HIM I live, I move and I have my very being.
  
  I am ALWAYS at home.
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  XTASISposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Good for you., So don't shout in this forum. you're using too many caps. it's not kind of you
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  underhiswingsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Pretty funny coming fro someone with a user name that is
  "XTASIS"....ummm, see any CAPS there?
  
  CAPS are used when I write a term referring to THE CREATOR and not shouting.
  If CAPS are used any other time, it is to point something out, not for shouting. Peace. Or should I say PEACE.?
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  XTASISposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Peace will do Bye and good luck, hope you get what you're looking for
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  underhiswingsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Never said I was "looking" for anything.
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  underhiswingsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Oh and by the way, you are nobody to tell me to go any place.
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  XTASISposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well then I hope you get into a Hell of an Argument !
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  underhiswingsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The gates of hell cannot prevail against God on the offense.
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underhiswingsposted 14 years ago
#13. "Fighting against the Truth and embracing the Truth, both are painful, only one is also peaceful."
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underhiswingsposted 14 years ago
11."Who is the bigger coward? The child who is afraid of the dark or the man who is afraid of the light?"
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  XTASISposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  None. Only people that talk when nobody is listening
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underhiswingsposted 14 years ago
25."If I do not agree with your opinion at first or at all, it is because I ran it through The Refiners Fire and found it wanting. Please remove all the dross and then re-present it to me for further consideration."
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L. Andrew Marrposted 14 years ago
Truth is relative -

As an example:
I may believe with my every sinew that bigfoot exists. That makes it a truth for me even if no one else believes it and thinks it is false. There are no absolutes in a world which is relative.

The only truth is that your consciousness exists. Past that we only know what we think are truthes; namely your physical body exists or anyone else exists. For all I know no one on this site truely exists, yet to yourselves you are truthes.

See what I mean?
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  L. Andrew Marrposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  From a purely philosophical point of view, and not a religious one, what I say is correct. We cannot be certain of what we do not know exists. So when people say 'does God exist?' We can turn around and say 'does existance exist?'
  
  I believe in God but I disagree with using him/her/it as an answer with ethical questions. Truth is ethics and ethics is encoded into every human society on earth and every human being, everyone has their own ethical theory. Religion is strictly personal as to what one believes.
  
  Also, is God truth or truth God? It is one thing to say that a person encompasses truth - it is another to say they are. The Euthrytho dilemma has been around for thousands of years and you are a better person than I am if you can answer it.
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  underhiswingsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, I see you are confused with what you mean.
  
  You said:
  "There are no absolutes in a world which is relative."
  And then you said:
  "The only truth is that your consciousness exists."
  
  Those 2 statements contradict themselves. First you said that 'there are no absolutes" and then you made an absolute statement "The only truth is that..."
  
  Are these absolutes??
  1-jump off 8 story building, hit street, look like dropped can of tomatoes, your dead.
  2-tie boat anchor around neck, jump into ocean off boat, sink to bottom, your dead.
  3-tell the judge in his courtroom to shut the f#ck up, judge simply utters "bailiff" and you find yourself in a new orange suit in a 6'x9' cell with Bubba.
  4-you try to rape another mans wife and he comes home and shows you the business end of some guys creation named Smith and Wesson, your dead.
  
  Hummmm ?????
  Your truth, someone else's truth, my own truth, none of them are equal to The Truth. They might contain some of real truth, but always contain a lie as well, this is the illusion of human perception.
  
  Perception is little more than an illusion and The Truth is neither of these. The Truth is 100% Truth and is pure Truth.
  
  There is One who is Truth and nothing escapes His notice.
  
  He knows all things. He is NOT a man that He should have any darkness.
  
  (by the way, truthes is spelled truths and truley is spelled truly and Euthrytho dilemma is spelled Erythro)
  
  And that is an absolute truth sir.
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