Hot potato inside Catholicism vs Judaism vs Christianity vs Islam

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   Valerie Fposted 14 years ago

   Problem is that some of what's been passed off as "spreading the truth" was really passing off tired misconceptions and misinformation, not truth, about the Catholic Church.

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      Vladimir Uhriposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Hey, I already said I love Catholics.
      Martin Luther was Catholic too, he was monk. He was not protestant. He wanted to change to right way of Catholics. He wrote it on the door of Church in Wittemberg (Germany). It was 95 Thesis which the church was and is off of Bible. They would kill him if he would not have backup protection. The same happened with Catholic priest in Prague Czechoslovakia - Jan Hus. He live 100 years before Luther. They burned him on the square as stake as a heretic. He still did not stop to talk to that heretic corrupted hierarchy.
      People you have to listen the truth. Jesus loves you and He is sufficient enough. You cannot be born in the church and being Christian. You have to receive it personally. I do not mean to shawl it into your throat. This is very serious matter; it is concern of eternal life. Do you know how long is it - eternity?

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   Shaul Steinposted 14 years ago

   gosh i thought this might get a lot of back and forth, but 10 pages in 1 day?
   
   jeepers

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   Valerie Fposted 14 years ago

   Sources as diverse as Alessandro Scarlatti and Duke Ellington were quoted as saying that there are only two kinds of music- good and bad. I don't buy CD's very often, but my favorite plainchant is the kind in which I participate.

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      Crazdwriterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Wow you particapte? that is really cool. I could never have the guts to do that. Shoot I don't even sing in church lol

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         Valerie Fposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Well, not like in the choir or as a performer, not any more anyway. But liturgical music is supposed to be a communal prayer experience.

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            Crazdwriterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            very interesting and very cool!

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   Crazdwriterposted 14 years ago

   Thanks Shaul. i'll definitely listen to those tomorrow while I'm writing. I can't wait since it is your own music.

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      Shaul Steinposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      welcome your opinion

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         Crazdwriterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         HEY There can be your first hub...on making piano music. the steps it takes and everything. That would be a great read right there!

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            Shaul Steinposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            someone else is already writing a hub about my music because she fell in love with all 17 tracks and is also a pianist.
            
            my hub would be very short as i do not compose in a traditional manner.

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   Crazdwriterposted 14 years ago

   Well shoot lol you can always write a hub about the poanists you like, your favorite songs.
   
   maybe you can write about what inspires you to write your own songs?

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   Valerie Fposted 14 years ago

   I believe all religions bring something of value to the table, which is why I'm not keen to speak ill of any religion, but I don't think all of them are 100% true and will bring people to the same destination. I get too hung up on things like where different religions are diametrically opposed to believe they're equally true, which means I'd probably be a terrible Unitarian Universalist.

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      Crazdwriterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I doubt it lol Universailst don't try to see faults they see religions as they are and accept them. Shoot I have two friends going to a ..i guess church...for Univerasists and they say all religions even athiests and gays and lesbians go because they are so welcome and no one judges them based on religions beliefs. So based on what you said..you would fit in They don' talk about religion they talk about other things like...the economy or things like that. that's why I'm going more towards them than anything. I won't abandon my religion just accept more of others and learn more.

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   Crazdwriterposted 14 years ago

   And there again she goes preaching the bible...would say a more colorful word but not going to.  Why do Bible thumpers always believe that they are right because they follow the Bible to every word? and why do they never actually READ or THINK about what others say to them? Again closed minded people annoy me as do bible thumpers.
   
   
   And I do have a name...I don't go by Catholisim or can you not read my name? It's Crazdwriter

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   Valerie Fposted 14 years ago

   Not much point in going to a church if religion isn't discussed. But how can people of all religions go to heaven if some don't even believe in heaven. Which are true? The religions that holds reincarnation as a fundamental tenet, or the ones that maintain we only have one shot at an earthly life? How many gods are there? One? Three Persons in One God? Three separate beings in one Godhead? None? Many?
   
   I don't deny that there are some similarities across the board, but to ignore the differences is not to see all religions as they are, and they can't all be correct.

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      mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      All religions are correct and guide man to oneness with his inner self or god self.
      All humans are the sons of god and Jesus and other masters understood themselves and guided others to the light.

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         Vladimir Uhriposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         This is what devil say. He say all religions are his. He is right.
         Secondly we are not God's children. We were sold to slavery and we have to be bought back. It was paid by Jesus blood.

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      Crazdwriterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I guess Church was a bad word then...maybe meeting? or congregassion? something to that affect where people get together with open arms and accept all. But yea the word is not there...getting late here in cali and my brain is falling asleep on me. lol

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      Vladimir Uhriposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Please seek the truth and you shall find it.
      Jesus said My Word is truth. What else I can say?

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         tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         That you  are still blind . That is what Jesus would say if he could. Bur Alas! He's dead!

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   Valerie Fposted 14 years ago

   Well, I don't believe the human inner self is a god-self, so my religion doesn't lead to that destination, obviously.
   
   On a different note (pun not intended), there seem to be quite a few musicians and music buffs here. I studied music in college with emphases on vocal studies, opera, early music, and ethnomusicology.
   
   My paper on the Jewish influence on Catholic liturgy and the development of sacred music in Western Europe began as a project for an early music class.

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      Shaul Steinposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      cool, look in your in box, your opinion is welcome.

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      mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      What religion do you follow?

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         Valerie Fposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         As a Catholic, I don't believe Jesus was just a prophet.

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            mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            "The kingdom of god is within" Jesus
            Your philosophy says god is within.
            I fail to understand the meaning of "just a prophet"

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               Shaul Steinposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               He is High Priest
               
               He is Prophet
               
               He is Savior
               
               He is King
               
               He is God

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                  mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  SO AM I AND EVERY HUMAN HAS THE POTENTIAL TO BECOME A CHRIST OR BUDDHA

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    Crazdwriterposted 14 years ago

    Shaul you should put your music on CDs and sell it. Haven't listend to it yet just so ya know lol just trying to give you ideas.
    Oh and you need a hub lol

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       Shaul Steinposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       yeah, money is lacking right now.
       it is on an inter net radio station though.
       
       http://www.jango.com/music/beautyforashes

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          Crazdwriterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          That is a step in the right direction. night

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          Judah's Daughterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Hey, Shaul ~ this is your thread, and I'm going to get busy with other things now.  I've contributed way more than intended, and you have enough people involved now to keep it going.  Whether this becomes a thread about music from this point forward, it's probably a more peaceful topic.  You called this "hot potato" for a reason, and it's been proven as such ~~ God bless everyone; I did my part.  Tootaloo ~~~

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    Judah's Daughterposted 14 years ago

    So, let me ask an important question.  If any of you read from the very beginning of this thread, how many quote the Bible?  John 1:1 says that in the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God.  The Bible also says that the Word became flesh and dwelt among men.  That Word is Jesus Christ.  Jesus said He did not come to bring peace, but a sword.  The Bible also states that the Word will judge us on the last day.
    
    Here's my question.  If Jesus came here and spoke the Word to you or even wrote it to you as here in this forum, would your response be the same to Him?  Would you call Him a Bible Thumper and say all gods lead to God the Father?  That church is a place for people not to hear the Word of God?  That love means keeping everyone happy and comfortable in their beliefs?
    
    Just something to think about...

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       Crazdwriterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       No because God would already know what I belive because He gave me the Bible, He gave me a brain and He told me to believe in Him but also look between the lines of the Bible and see things Outside my box.
       
       I think it is YOU who needs to reread what others who DON"T think like you are saying and THINK for yourself. God didn't intend for people to follow the Bible WORD FOR WORD. Yes the 10 commandments are a big plus but seriously following the Bible word for word isn't going to get you any closer to Heaven than being yourself like how God had made you, and THINKING for yourself as God had intended.
       
       With that said good night my dear friends.

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    Crazdwriterposted 14 years ago

    All right I need to get to bed. Brain is already falling asleep on me lol. Shaul I'll get back to you about your music tomorrow.
    Valerie was nice talking to you and meeting you.
    mohitmisra nice meeting you and don't forget to give me my religion lesson on parsee in my email...just go to my profile and contact me.
    Mark so sweet of you to jump in lol
    
    Gnight kiddies talk to you tomorrow.

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    Valerie Fposted 14 years ago

    Nowhere in the Bible did Jesus say the Kingdom of God is "within."
    
    As a Catholic, I don't believe Jesus was a prophet, but God Incarnate, something nobody else ever was.
    
    So this does not square with other religions that say He was just a prophet, equal to Moses or Mohammad.

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       Judah's Daughterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Valerie, I applaud you.  It's about time someone stands up firmly for what they believe and speak out.  You may not like my style, as we are all made differenly, but I am pleased to see this.  God bless you.

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       mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Luke 17 (KJV)
       And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
       
       
       Your philosophy is confusing and incorrect.All humans are god incarnate and one who has awakened to this truth is called an enlightened one or knower of god.
       
       http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/prophet
       
           * Main Entry: proph·et
           * Pronunciation: \ˈprä-fət\
           * Function: noun
           * Etymology: Middle English prophete, from Anglo-French, from Latin propheta, from Greek prophētēs, from pro for + phanai to speak — more at for, ban
           * Date: 12th century
       
       1 : one who utters divinely inspired revelations: as a often capitalized : the writer of one of the prophetic books of the Bible b capitalized : one regarded by a group of followers as the final authoritative revealer of God's will <Muhammad, the Prophet of Allah>
       2 : one gifted with more than ordinary spiritual and moral insight; especially : an inspired poet
       3 : one who foretells future events : predictor
       4 : an effective or leading spokesman for a cause, doctrine, or group
       5 Christian Science a : a spiritual seer b : disappearance of material sense before the conscious facts of spiritual Truth.

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          Valerie Fposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Don't assume I think the King James translation is the best.
          
          Luke 17: 20-21 says the Kingdom of God is among us, in reference not to something inside the human self, but to Jesus' healing and preaching ministry.
          
          The Gospels would not otherwise preach self-denial.
          
          Also, it's kind of strange to regard Jesus as a prophet of God if He is in fact God.
          
          I'm glad you admit that you believe my religion, my philosophy is incorrect, because you just proved that you don't really believe all religions are correct.
          
          But in Christianity, anyone who isn't Jesus Christ yet claims to be God incarnate is committing a grave sin. No created being is equal to the Creator. So the idea that I'm God incarnate and will be enlightened when I realize that is actually anathema to me.

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             mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             Luke 17: 20-21 says the Kingdom of God is among us, in reference not to something inside the human self, but to Jesus' healing and preaching ministry.
             "There was no ministry when Jesus thus spoke.This is the same philosophy as the Hindus,get to now yourself and you get to know god. "
             
             Also, it's kind of strange to regard Jesus as a prophet of God if He is in fact God.
             "Some philosophies equate the prophets with god and some do not, both are correct."
             
             I'm glad you admit that you believe my religion, my philosophy is incorrect, because you just proved that you don't really believe all religions are correct.
             
             " Please read this poem I have written .
             http://hubpages.com/hub/Religionspoem
             
             But in Christianity, anyone who isn't Jesus Christ yet claims to be God incarnate is committing a grave sin. No created being is equal to the Creator. So the idea that I'm God incarnate and will be enlightened when I realize that is actually anathema to me.
             "That is the meaning of enlightenment, one who has become the light and declares I am the light like Jesus did. "

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                Vladimir Uhriposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                Kingdom of God is within us was misunderstood. Jesus said so, but it is who hear Him WORD and receive it.

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                   mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                   God is within has been the knowledge mystics or sages have been spreading a long time before Jesus was here.

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          Vladimir Uhriposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Jesus was born legally as a man. Otherwise he would not be here legally. The same time He was functioning as an Old Testament Prophet. He was also Rabi, teacher. But He was also Son of living God. Many recognized it in His time. He shed His blood for us. He paid the price. We are free. But freedom has to be received and accepted by faith. Thats all. If one is in jail and governor give him an amnesty, and he will not believe the document of governor he will refuse it and stay in jail. It is gross illustration but I hope many will get it.
          
          The characters of different gods are different. Let say Baal was enemy of God Elohim. There was Baal male and Baal female. Ba'al and Ba'alath. In the name of Baal they murdered God's prophets. It was phenician god. Remember Jezebel? The full name of god in Semitic language is Baal-Alah. How then all gods are the same? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baal
          That's must be lie.

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             mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             Get to know god and you will understand the prophets properly but not before that.

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       Shaul Steinposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Luke 4:24...He is speaking of Himself here.
       "And he said, Verily I say unto you, No prophet is accepted in his own country."
       
       Jesus Raises a Widow’s Son in Luke 7
       11 Soon afterward Jesus went with his disciples to the village of Nain, and a large crowd followed him. 12 A funeral procession was coming out as he approached the village gate. The young man who had died was a widow’s only son, and a large crowd from the village was with her. 13 When the Lord saw her, his heart overflowed with compassion. “Don’t cry!” he said. 14 Then he walked over to the coffin and touched it, and the bearers stopped. “Young man,” he said, “I tell you, get up.” 15 Then the dead boy sat up and began to talk! And Jesus gave him back to his mother.
       
       16 Great fear swept the crowd, and they praised God, saying, “A mighty prophet has risen among us,” and “God has visited his people today.” 17 And the news about Jesus spread throughout Judea and the surrounding countryside.
       
       if He was not one then He would have denied it and corrected them too.
       
       He is more than just a prophet, agreed, but this was part of His mission too, not taking away anything form Him being God in the flesh either.

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    Valerie Fposted 14 years ago

    And I think it's awfully arrogant of you to assume that I had the answers spoon-fed to me and didn't come to my conclusions having read multiple translations of "my own" book, made an attempt at learning a couple of the original languages, carefully considered its content, investigated Christianity as well as myriad other belief systems including atheism, and made a logical deduction that Christianity's best.
    
    You don't know me, and you don't know why I believe what I do, so you fall back on the readiest stereotype at your disposal.
    
    At least I don't assume that people who disagree with me don't think for themselves.
    
    But you did say something that sounded very close to judging Christianity by the people who fail to follow its teachings. I'm sorry if I was off the mark, and I'll forgive you for overreacting and insulting me.

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       Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       LOL
       
       Now you know what it feels like.
       
       And I do not need or want your "forgiveness."

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          Valerie Fposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Those who don't want and don't think they need forgiveness have a horrible tendency to not get it when they do in fact need it.

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             Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             Exactly my point.
             
             Would you like me to forgive you?

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    Valerie Fposted 14 years ago

    Didn't I apologize?

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       Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       So - do you want forgiveness? LOL
       
       No need to apologize either. I am used to being spoken to with an underlying assumption that I have not done any investigating, have not given it any thought and have not read the bible. And that I have just arbitrarily decided I "don't like" the "true message," I am being given. 
       
       What I try and do is behave in exactly the same way towards people who make those assumptions. Just like you asked me to - if you remember our last discussion about "doing unto others."

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          Valerie Fposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          You're off the mark there because I never assumed you never did any investigation or gave it any thought. I did assume that you let "people like" Judah's Daughter rather color your perception of Christianity, but that was based on your own post.
          
          And I never asked you to behave exactly the same way you think I acted toward you. The Golden Rule is not to do unto others as they do unto you.

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             Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             I am grateful to people like Judah's daughter for teaching me the true value of the bible and the ability to discern that there is no such thing as a god.
             
             And I see that you too have rewritten the bible to suit yourself.
             
             There is a big difference between "do unto others as you would have them do unto you," and "not to do unto others as they do unto you."
             
             Guess what the bible actually says?
             
             Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them. Matthew 7:12

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                Valerie Fposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                Mark KnowlesI am grateful to people like Judah's daughter for teaching me the true value of the bible and the ability to discern that there is no such thing as a god.
                
                And I see that you too have rewritten the bible to suit yourself.
                
                There is a big difference between "do unto others as you would have them do unto you," and "not to do unto others as they do unto you."
                
                Guess what the bible [i wrote:

                actually[/i] says?
                
                Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them. Matthew 7:12
                
                

                Same thing. If you want people to assume you are an intelligent and reasonable human individual and to treat you accordingly, you have to treat them the same way.
                
                Also, the gist of "not to do unto others as they do unto you" is found in Matthew 5:38-39, in Jesus' teaching against retaliation.
                
                It helps to take every verse of the Bible in context. If you think the Golden Rule allows for retaliation, or even if you like when people exact revenge against you for all slights, real or imagined, you are taking the Golden Rule out of context.
                
                Who's rewriting the Bible?

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                   tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                   Same thing. If you want people to assume you are an intelligent and reasonable human individual and to treat you accordingly, you have to treat them the same way.
                   
                   Also, the gist of "not to do unto others as they do unto you" is found in Matthew 5:38-39, in Jesus' teaching against retaliation.
                   
                   It helps to take every verse of the Bible in context. If you think the Golden Rule allows for retaliation, or even if you like when people exact revenge against you for all slights, real or imagined, you are taking the Golden Rule out of context.
                   
                   Who's rewriting the Bible?

                   didn't you know that  almost all the New Testament, when translated from aramee to greek lost a lot of meaning and then when translated from greek to latin, almost everything was fixed to look acceptable in the eyes of the Church? And I'm not going to mention what happened when translated from greek to english ! In the Old Testament what it's stated is ' an eye for and eye and a tooth for a tooth'. And that were supposed to be God's Words!   So if you chose to believe in that Book. Well... what can I say ?!

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                Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                Same thing. If you want people to assume you are an intelligent and reasonable human individual and to treat you accordingly, you have to treat them the same way.
                
                Also, the gist of "not to do unto others as they do unto you" is found in Matthew 5:38-39, in Jesus' teaching against retaliation.
                
                It helps to take every verse of the Bible in context. If you think the Golden Rule allows for retaliation, or even if you like when people exact revenge against you for all slights, real or imagined, you are taking the Golden Rule out of context.
                
                Who's rewriting the Bible?

                Why should I treat some one as intelligent and reasonable if they are not behaving in those way?
                
                Do you think they will magically become intelligent and reasonable if I do?
                
                Yes _ I know how to take the bible in context thank you. It would help if you were a little less condescending as well. It is not really my fault that almost every other member of your cult refers to "The Golden Rule" as being "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you,"
                
                http://www.keyway.ca/htm2001/20010313.htm
                http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Where_is_the_ … _the_Bible
                http://www.essex1.com/people/paul/bible … -rule.html
                
                
                Now - you are saying "Oh, not that Golden Rule - the Other Golden Rule," , that means I have not taken what you said in context. Because I do not know how to do that?
                

                Valerie F wrote:

                
                The Golden Rule is not to do unto others as they do unto you.

                Seriously - make your mind up.
                
                No

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                Valerie Fposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                There is absolutely no indecision on my part. Perhaps I should have clarified with quotation marks. The Golden Rule is not "Do unto others as they do unto you."
                
                And I have not behaved in a condescending manner yet. You on the other hand seemed start off with an assumption of other people's intellectual inferiority on the basis of their beliefs. I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt, but the more I read of your posts on this matter, the more it seems to me that, as I see often is the case, the arrogance you see in other people may only be a reflection of your own. I'm still willing to admit I might be wrong, but I'm awaiting proof.

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                   Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                   So - why did you apologize?
                   
                   And what is the "golden rule" exactly?
                   
                   And you have not given me the benefit of the doubt. Merely reacted against the way I showed you the way you are.
                   
                   Which it seems you do not like.........

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