Toss out which ones ?
Please make a list of the ones we do not need to follow anymore.
I'd love to comment if I know:
Whose/Which commandments you are referring to
and who is "we"? (as in we do not need to follow)
According to Paul, without the Law, we wouldn't know our sin. Without knowing our sin, we wouldn't know our need for salvation. Ergo, I vote we keep all the commandments, just as God prescribed them.
Great question, Scott.
We are to follow them all, but only if we follow Christ first. Man cannot follow the law completely on his own. If he could then the death of Jesus was in vain.
MY EDIT: I meant the original ten commandments.
They have already been tossed out, all of them............of everything. Why do you think the world is like it is today. Things that are "right" are considered "wrong" and the things that are "wrong" are "right"...........boy are we in for it.
Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's ass.
I've never had a neighbour who had one.
Unless I'm misunderstanding the meaning of the word ass.
Toss out the love for God and the love for other humans? only a fool would say in his heart that their is no God,Matthew 22:35-40; Psalm 14:1
What are you the son of the devil? God's Law of love is summed up in love for God and love foreverything else especially humans that are made in the image of God, Genesis 1:26-27. If you want eternal life keep my commandments, John 14:15-17. If you break any of them you break them all, James 2:10.
You can only keep them if you have the Holy Spirit in you, Romans 8:1-4. If you are not of God you do not have God's love in you,1 John 4:16--21, Romans 8:5-16 > Your carnal mind cannot keep God's Laws because you would not have the Spirit of God in you.
If you do not keep them you will be ashes under the feet of the Righteous people that do, Malachi 4:1.
well for starter's keeping one day out of the week faithful (Sunday). how about every day?
and thou shalt not steal sounds an awful lot like thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's property, so that one can go too...
My thought has been that if we live by basic "love" based values and principles, we wouldn't need any commandments. Hello, duh.
But we are only human and humans are generally unbearable, with a sprinkling of wonderfulness thrown in here and there. Kind of like thunder with occasional sunshine.
Okay, just one additional preach.
The New Testament says the Jesus came to fullfil all the law, and it was superceded with....LOVE.
"Love your God with all your heart, mind and strength, and love your neighbor as yourself. On this do all the LAW and prophets hang."
Love trumps commandments. That's what I read. But since we are woefully lacking in the love department (see all of religion forum) we get to live by commandments and be rule breakers and sinners until we decide we can be otherwise.
you're right, and love doesn't need to be regulated. i mean seriously are we children? Man insticntively knows right from wrong because he knows what doesn't feel good to himself.
First off it is Saturday as the holy day, the day to recognize God as our creator and every other day living the way he would want you to live.
You can not truly love anything without loving God first, then by loving God you will love to keep his commandments.
Jesus came to fulfill the law not get rid of it. The commandments are there for all of us and will continue to stay there.
Actually, I agree that everyday we should be faithful. But that is not what is meant by that scripture. It is meant as it states that we are to, "remember the sabbath, to keep it, holy". Faithfulness and holiness are two different things.
The seventh day is the day God rested from His work in creating. In rememberance and respect of what He did create, of Him in creating it all we are to stop and rest as He did. It is acknowledgment of what He did for us, basically.
And as far as coveting goes, when one covets or lusts after things they put themselves in the position of wanting something so bad they would be willing to steal to get it. Plus, we are not to lust after things, material or persons.
God supplies both. And he wants for our desires to be for Him, of Him. His greatest desire is for us to desire only Him.
Now that is not to include the same desire we have lets say for our spouses etc. We desire them in a much different way. I say this with a wink.
have you not got the message nobody really wants you around on hub pages any more
According to tradition the sabbath is actually saturday, as such that would have been the sabbath Jesus himself observed or didn't depending on what your defintion of observence is. regardless we observe Sunday, we being most Christians in defefrence to pagan traditions and customs just as we know Christ was born at the time of the census, which according to Roman and Jewish Records happened in the Spring of that year around March yet we celebrate Christ's birthday in December on the same day that pagans worshipped their own sun God, interesting.
Cosette, your 'one day a week' (Sunday) does not constitute as 'Keeping the Sabbath' (4th Commandment). Christians need to study and understand the HEBREW scriptures themselves before spouting things they've merely been 'taught'.
Brenda Scully :
Have you not got the message no one really once you around here any more
I assume the "once" is supposed to be "wants" And the nobody is meant as all.
Which is not true as there are people who rather like me on here.
Even with all my "Bible Thumping" and "irrational beliefs"! lol
But as to the rest who do not then write hubpages team and tell them to do away with the religion forum all together. Make it so that only those who share YOUR opinions can have the right to this forum! Yes that would be so much better to have anyone whos opinions or points of views taken away all together as it is so obviously contradictory to your own point of view. How dare we even state them in here?!
I should know that it is only your opinion that matters or counts. It is only your point of view which should be broadcast on here!
Oh please do excuse me Brenda, for being so blatently obstinent towards the beliefs of others in stating my owm perspectives and that of God's Word.
Whoever approves of wicked people and whoever condemns righteous people is disgusting to the LORD.
He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just, even they both are abomination to the LORD.
did you know, brenda is a thru and thru believer? sometimes peoples opinions are not of a religious nature. i believe shes simply fed up with all this. you could take a little break, and write some hubs? might work out for everybody...
I do take breaks from this and I do write hubs. I do know she states herself as being a believer. I think thats awesome but I also stated the above scripture which implicates what it does concerning everyone who does believe.
Having said all of that I am glad hubpages did what they did concerning forums and their thread topics/sub-topics.
This thread for example is entitled "Toss out the commandments...we do not need them anymore ???"
I responded to it as I have the right to do so, no? Was I being rude, insulting or inciting such things in my response to cosette? No. However by the mere showing of my name in response I was attacked by Brenda with that comment she made.
Really boggles my mind and heart why one, being a believer would not want Gods Word then clarified to a non-believer. Or is it that other believers one being her only have the right or should have the right to do so?
Either way, makes no sense.
Just my opinion though.
Are you going to start hounding Brenda now? There is such a thing as having a disagreement and moving on. I said something to Brenda that I don't think she liked but neither she nor I found any reason to pursue the disagreement.
She makes a better believer than most. And look, she's a JW. I think it is funny that most other Christians detest a JW but from what I know about them, they make much better Christians then most.
I used to very much enjoy Jeromeo's presence here but he is not with us now. Few, very few people (so I know) in my life or this world actually walk the walk.
Who said that some hubbers' opinions have the only right for this forum? No one, but you.
You were attacked?! When? I did not see that coming. Brenda only reminded you that some people don't want you around "here"; nothing more, nothing less.
I agree with you that no, you were not being rude with your first post in this forum; but you were when you implied that she (Brenda) justifies the wicked and condemns the just. Who's just? You? Who judged that? >_>
Clarifying God's words? Telling your own interpretation is different from clarification. When one's opinion is not solicited, don't expect that it will be welcomed and appreciated.
P.S. In case you think that this is also an unsolicited opinion, yes, some words are. But some are also questions, and answers, AND clarifications. Lastly, I pray for your soul. Hope you do the same for others, instead of lashing out your thoughts to forums, that is, IF you are truly a believer.
i could be wrong, but i think what kicked that one off was several times i have asked you, atomswifey, for clarification on certain points and you generously ignored me. now all of a sudden when hubbers are mad at you, you are being all nice to me. people can see right through that sort of behavior.
as i say, i could be wrong...
I have answered you cosette as I read your posts. Please understand, I get bomb-barded from all sides here. One comes at me with this another with that.
I try to answer you each and every time. And thisw is not the first time I have been nice to you either.
As I have asked of you before, if you have certain questions then ask, and I will answer as I am able to.
And I do not give a rats patootie who is "mad" at me. What all of them fail to realize is that I am well aware of who is the accuser of the brethren! I know where all this hatred and malice comes from and believe me, it is not from the individuals themselves!
Too, I know that my presence in this world as a light is contrary to darkness which hates the light.
If my light shines a little brighter at times than others in that I mean, if I tend to express my points of view, my beliefs, Gods Word(the Bible) rather boldly, than that is what it is.
Why then should anyone take offense to it?
Have I called anyone names, insulted them? Is it I who have provoked them or God's Word?
To inference it is I as I qoute God's Word then that is a matter of perception now isn't it?
And have I been wrong or evil in citing that which is good and right?
who is really to blame here?
The one who answers, or the one asking the questions not willing to receive the answers?
I don't know about anybody here, but being wicked can be a lot of fun.
Atomswife it would serve you well to concentrate on your own sin(s) before God than to bible bash other people about theirs IMO.
And God says provoke not your brother ,so quit doing that ?
As much as I like Ryan , there is room for everyone on here, but I think you both should have been banned one for provoking ,the other for attacking.
I did not provoke, Gods Words did that itself obviously. As I did not deserve nor did I provoke any attack from anyone on here. I did not and have not flung insults at anyone to deserve them or provoke them back. I state God Word (the Bible) if it offends, it offends.
But too I think it is for one to consider just "who" it does offend and why?
What I mean by that is if one chooses not to believe in the words held within it's pages, then why take such offense to them?
That is all if I am to be found found guilty of anything, that is all I have done. I have stated my beliefs as they relate to God's Word.
I have not called anyone out by name and stated that they are going to hell or anything like that. I did not call anyONE person a sinner. I called all of us sinners. Are we not? Is that so offensive? I guess you could take offense to that if you believe in the consequences for it etc.
But again, most who have been on the defensive about it, are very proud of it. So why then take offense?
I have not called anyone names or resorted to blatent disrespect of anyone on a personal level here. I cite the case for what I believe in debates with people over them. They ask the questions and get for lack of a better term, pissed off when I answer.
I cannot help the fact that they who do not wish for an answer then, should not ask the question(s).
Some do toss them out, whether or not WE believe in them, or even if they are useful to US.
To actually be on topic though, I don't think we need to throw out the ten commandments they are they basis of most western law. However Christ recognized that it was indeed few that could abide by all and so reflected it in his comments about his two new commands which if obeyed would cover all the others and thus fulfill the law. As a Christian I do not understand the obsession with using the old Jewish law and commandments of the Old Testament to condemn non-believers. First as a Christian you have been warned by Jesus against Judging anyone, and second commanded to accept others and love your neighbor there was no fine print listing the conditions under which you would be released from your duty of love,based on race, religion, or political viewpoint. If You are a christian then you have been set free from the bondage you suffered under the old law (Galatians 3:23-5:25) Why then would you dishonor Christ's sacrifice to free you by going back to the old law and trying to live a life you can not? Throw it out, No, but leave it be and let go, yes probably.
Me either , I call it bullying tactics cept dont work on me.
The God I know doesnt bully people, ever.
Anyone can go around quoting from the Bible, what does that gain? think Proverbs puts it well , like vinegar in an open wound!
Attention maybe ,but it is sheer arrogance to presumme your doing any of this quoting with love in mind, or we would see its fruit.
So far its been chaotic , and that to me is the warning bell.
Jesus said the greatest commandment was to Love one another!
for there is no condemnation in Christ. None.
You say you come in the name of Christ. I dont believe you.
No condemantion IN christ there is the opperative word there Eagle IN!
And do you as a believer not think it is the greatest showing of love to present the Gospel to a dying world requiring it?
1 Peter 2:8
"Those by the way side are they that hear; then comes the devil, and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved."
So you then are the side of taking it away then? ask yourself this and be careful when answering please.
I am bold in my testimony of Gods Word, yes and we are all called to be!
And yes oh yes my dear the chaos is obvious and Who is it that is demonstrating it all?
I in quoting Gods Word? Or they who mock it?
Was it not chaos that brought about the crucifiction? Was it not chaos that brought the deaths to the disciples? Yes, it was chaos and continues to be.
Since the other side detests that which is Godly.
Jesus Himself said, "I come not into this world to bring peace, but a sword!" That sword is The Word of GOD! It cuts and is not afraid to do so!
Remember this scripture my dear,
He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just, even they both are abomination to the LORD.
Oh I can be as direct as you ,but I choose not to be confrontational or aggressive.
And it takes a big person to be responsible for what they say ,and not hide behind another author (God) when it suits.
We were writing almost identical posts at the same time, on two different threads.... Weird.
Well, I would much rather hide behind God than that of your unbelieving friends!
Ok sure , back on topic
The greatest commandment Jesus said was "Love...
So seems to me a great commandement to keep and practice
OK, so are we to "love" sin?
And if not
then are we to love the unbeliever?
and if so, how?
How do we as believers show that love, Gods love?
By hiding behind beliefs and being careful not to step on any toes with them?
Or is it rather that we show our greatest love for mankind when we do share our faith, His word?
That is love, I am sorry you do not recognize it
Yourself, other people, life, love etc... I know it needs to be explained to you...
people ,your brother , your enemy
Love one for another
What about loving GOD 1st so you can do the second?
But that is loving God first sigh ,if I have love for my brother!
World Peace, acceptance, love...
Toss out the first and there is no reason to fight over god or gods.
Oh yes you the love the unbeliever, the sinner, the drug addict, thief, and killer! Who are you to be so perfect that you are above sin. Even Christ himself on the cross still loved the man to his left and right and even those below that spit on him, You quote the Bible like you wrote it but you leave out key scripture that would silence you things like "If you love those who love you, what reward will you get...and if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more then others? Do not even Pagans do that?" Humility is a word you need to learn my friend, you say you're not judging anyone or calling out names, except you're judging everyone not part of your little club and telling them all how right you are, Pharisee, Sadducee, you want others to hear you praying and call you master. Yeah there's love dripping from your posts. Love of yourself.
God Bless you, Scott. People forget that the bible doesn't always have to cut the reader like a knife. The bible can inspire goodness, as well. Great Post!!!
This is so cool. I think it made atomswifey stop.
You have obviously not read very many of myh posts to make that sort of judgement on me Scott.
I have stated over and over again that ALL are guilty of sin. I have stated over and over again that I am a sinner. I admit my guilt.
I was even accused in a sarcastic way after saying that,(I was a sinner) how "humble" I was in a discussion with another on the subject of one thinking that they did not need God or His grace to save them as their reward of eternity would come as a natural event from them being born.
I expressed that it is not by our own works we are saved, it is by grace. By being humble before our God and admitting our sin, accepting His love and Grace.
I think you need to actually read a lot more of my posts and responses, and not just take me for what some on here accuse me of!
Do you not know why people are confused Atomswife?
C'mon , familiar spirits ring any bells ??
I have read everyone of your posts on 6 different question threads and its always the same. You start out all high and mighty until someone jumps on you, then you apologize and state how humble you are, then a few posts later you're trumpeting your own righteousness again, the Pharisees too admitted they were sinners to the masses then went right on declaring their superiority. On this topic you yourself said you weren't calling out any names or singling anyone out but then you accuse me of doing the same to you, I didn't use your name at all, but I did reflect your own method and style of criticizing behind screens of generalization. I did it for a purpose and a reason which you just illustrated so well. You are judging others on here by their actions but yourself by your intentions. In your mind you are doing a loving thing so its alright to speak down to others you consider unbelievers or wrong but when they do it to you, you take offense. On the outside your arrogance towards your faith and the belief of others is deeply offensive to those of us that do not share your RELIGIOUS point of view.
On the flipside I really don't think it is your intention to harm or offend anyone and you truly believe that you are acting out of love. That's whats so dangerous about a line of reasoning like that though, because it precludes you from the ability to step outside your own narrow view and examine the effects of your words on others, simply put you don't care how your words impact those they land on because in your mind you are unquestionably right, and that's the source of the animosity towards you on these forums. You assume because I don't speak up often on these forums that i don't read whats going on, I.E. your posts. That is also a mistake. I know the value of keeping silent and letting others make fools of themselves to hurt their own argument. Now you can take this comment as an insult(it's effect on you) or as a piece of advice to think about what you say more closely before writing it(It's Intent)
I have no desire to belittle you or silence you. However you have demonstrated over and over again that you have little desire for receiving objective criticism in any way so I got your attention the only way that you would respond to. How you spread the Gospel is not being constructive at all but destructive, you need to remember that Christ said we would show our love for him by our love towards each other, not by pointing out their mistakes or disbelief. You could do so much good if you would just take a second to step back and be still.
The ten commandments are much like the laws our police enforce.
Without law, there will be always be chaos ... look at the looting that occurred during the Katrina disaster. Thousands lost their businesses and homes, and these people that looted just added to their sorrows, stealing what little remained of what they had.
Where such rules grow complex is when we must weight the rights of the one versus the many.
A good example ... a man takes a busload of school kids hostage and threatens to kill them. A sniper is called in to save the kids, but at the cost of the life of the man. Yes, the man was murdered, but to save the lives of others. This is what our laws (and the ten commandments) don't tell us ... that we must always weigh all judgments to understand the best outcome.
We also need to understand the ten commandments came about in a time when few could read and laws were needed to keep people from straying off into chaos. As such, ten laws (commandments) were created as a guide to keeping people from committing acts against society.
Only the worst of acts were given a commandment, and I feel these still apply as good rules today. As such, I can't see where one could be removed.
The law is of no use ,without the Spirit(Gods) of the LAW, that is exactly why Jesus(later in the NT) emphasised the greatest commandment of them all...Love
In my opinion that is exactly how Relgious Spirits play havoc,quoting and quoting ,why Satan even quoted scripture to Christ...but it was to cause division of the evil kind.
I guess the only test is to check what are the outcomes of ones actions
Seems like the topic is being ignored about 87% of the time here.
All of the ten commandments come complete with the usual threats. Read all of it.
I do not need "commandments" to do the right thing, and I do not need to be threatened by an invisible god to know the difference between right and wrong.
lol, I just figured getting rid of the first one would take care of the rest... no god, no sin... well you get the point.
If you get rid of "love your neighbor as yourself"
does that get rid of sin?
Wait a minute explain that scripture first please
were you trying to make me look bad? Funny!!!! It's a choice not a command. One that I chose, what about yourself?
Gods not nearly as scary as some hubberS Ernest lol, besides I reckon a wet noodle would bring you into line ...
How many commandments are there anyways?
Percentage wise, few know this.
The 10 + the 603 = 613 correct.
Many of the civil laws are good too I think.
Yes many are good sound advice. many are not, just as in real life!
But you have to believe in the bad commandments too or go burn in Hell! LOLLOLOLOLOLOL!!!
So if you want to get rid of all the commandments, do you want to get rid of the commands of the laws men write too?
Man made law does not make overt threats up front usually. The laws are stated as law. No hateful threats of torture or death are stated as part of the law as far as I know.
Dude, people like you are the reason we even have laws to begin with.
Unfortunately there aren't any laws to keep us safe from you types. I wonder why? Oh, I know because the Devil... I mean your god made it so.
Tisk, tisk. Satan really has a way with people like you. I wish you the best. Hope one day you can come over to the loving side of life and stop insisting that your murdering god is love and that we should follow a murderer.
Dont know offhand ,but Im sure by the end of the night there will be more
Throw them all out but eye for an eye. then we'll all be blind.
No you quote out of context ,and that is exactly what Christ warned people not to do ?
And why did he say that , because that is what the Devil does..
Satan ignores the greatest commandements ( that requires action , not talk talk talk, love your nieghbor, enemy,etc and tries to confuse people with mountains and mountains of scripture, which is what you have been doing.
If you met a thirsty person , would you not give them a drink of water , or would you quote them scripture about Jesus being the river of life?... Which action do you think would help the thirsty person most...and God is logical ,dont you think?
Interesting that nobody had a list of instructions to toss out?
Some said all of them. Apparently never read them all. Some made jokes. Some just hated.
If we are to follow the instructions, then which ones are those?
The world does not change for lack of commandments, the world remains the same to those who experience life, in line with the human condition and it's projected beliefs.
Yes, the commandments must have come from prior conditions that plagued humanity and prompted them to write them.
The commandments, as stated by another hubber, have already been thrown out and everything is the same as it was.
The commandments never did take because there has never been a period in humanity where true peace existed between mankind.
We don't need ten commandments ... we need ten billion people willing to be decent to one another.
Then let's start our own religion!
We need a name ... Harmony!
We will be the Harmonizers!
Aw ... wait ... sounds more like a vocal group
I need a little help with this one ...
The 1st three should go, if god is real, I don't think he would put us on this planet so we can give him attention. What about though shall not rape? Or though shall not torture, or though shall not manipulate. If we all take the 10 commandments seriously, why is it so negotiable? How come only two of them are laws? These are the 10 commandments not the 10 requests, these are direct orders from God. It's not like he said if you can do it it's cool, if not that's cool too. If God was realN why would he not use the 1st three that I mentioned when it clearly applies to evil behavior? Why is coveting bad when it creates jobs for people?
I believe the commandments can all be summed up in Matthew 22:36-40 --
Matthew 22:36-40 (King James Version)
36 -- Master, which is the great commandment in the law? 37 -- Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 -- This is the first and great commandment. 39 -- And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40 -- On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
Well, since the thread has resurfaced, I'd suggest we should do as the ancient Greeks did and separate Ethics from Religion. Then we'd find that ethics are fairly universal and not hard even for a child to grasp the basics. Religion can then be left to the religious, as the private affair it is meant to be.
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