Aren't Christians really just the first terrorists?

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Mikel G Robertsposted 13 years ago
Terrorists use threats of violence to get what they want. Most modern terrorists believe they are doing the "Will of God"... Do you believe God needs violence and threats to get humanity to do what God intends us to? That God needs Hell? Why do we threaten our children, with Hell? Is it to make them believe in God? Or is it just to make them obey, when telling them the truth wont work?
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  sandra rinckposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Regarding the title of the op; no. Terrorism and violence existed long before religion did.
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Ok, and the rest of it?
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  sandra rinckposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  The rest, I don't know for sure. I personally don't tell my kid any such thing. A bigger threat to here is getting her toys taken away from Satan herself, Mom! She would prolly tell it to me like it is if I told her she was going to burn in hell if she didn't do what I told her, "no, don't be silly" or "don't say those things" or "there is no such thing." I am serious too, my kid is like a breath of fresh air even when her truthfulness gets under my skin.
  
  I can't speak for everyone but feel pretty split down the middle. One side being that 'hell' was used as a weapon to get criminals to stop doing what they are doing. On the other side, the criminal caught on and used it as a weapon to get what they want.
  
  I dunno.
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Thank You, I really do Enjoy your point of view.
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  Presigoposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hell is a place void of God, It is not a punishment. It is a place where God is not that those who reject Him spend out their eternity, without Him. I think people get hung up on Hell like its a sentence passed by God against those who dont love Him. It is a place where there is no presence of God at all where those that have chose to reject Him reside. We are all eternal Christian and non-Christian alike, where that eternity is for us is an individual choice not sentence or punishment. My point of view anyhow
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Right! So what is this about?
  
  The LORD is a jealous God, filled with vengeance and wrath. He takes revenge on all who oppose him and furiously destroys his enemies! The LORD is slow to get angry, but his power is great, and he never lets the guilty go unpunished. He displays his power in the whirlwind and the storm. The billowing clouds are the dust beneath his feet. At his command the oceans and rivers dry up, the lush pastures of Bashan and Carmel fade, and the green forests of Lebanon wilt. In his presence the mountains quake, and the hills melt away; the earth trembles, and its people are destroyed. Who can stand before his fierce anger? Who can survive his burning fury? His rage blazes forth like fire, and the mountains crumble to dust in his presence. The LORD is good. When trouble comes, he is a strong refuge. And he knows everyone who trusts in him. But he sweeps away his enemies in an overwhelming flood. He pursues his foes into the darkness of night. (Nahum 1:2-8 NLT)
  
  More "love?" Or a clear demonstration of the psychosis that runs through this book written by a bunch of sexist homophobic intellectually crippled old men.
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  tell us how you really feel Earnest, I like you...
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  livelongerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Keep in mind you're quoting the Hebrew Bible (the "Old Testament") so Christians generally disavow this sort of stuff...unless it appeals to them, in which case they still quote and use it.
  
  And Jews don't take that stuff literally anymore.
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Some of it they do (Jews) and you raise another point... Jesus came and said forget all of the teachings in the "Old Testament" but "christians" never did. In fact they included it in the "new" Bible.
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  livelongerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, the Haredim still take it all very literally. But they are a tiny minority.
  And, agreed - odd that Christianists (fundamentalist Christians) say the new covenant allows them to ignore all the prohibitions against shellfish, mixed-fiber fabrics, etc, but they choose to retain those fiery prohibitions that are convenient to them (i.e. those they weren't going to do anyway).
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Which "fiery prohibitions" would those be?
  
  What OT "fiery prohibitions" were reiterated in the NT?
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  livelongerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You're certainly a better Christian Biblical scholar than I am, but those prohibitions against homosexuality were apparently reiterated by Paul and Revelations in the NT. There might be others, but as a gay person, homosexuality is the one I'm naturally the most sensitive to.
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  All I have to say about gay people is, God made you too. God doesn't create things or people that God didn't intend to create. God loves you.
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  livelongerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Tell me about it.
  
  The excuse the haters use is their firm belief that homosexuality is a choice.
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Freewill is the greatest gift God gives us, it wouldn't be "freewill" if we weren't allowed to make the choice.
  choices:
  1 be straight
  2 be straight
  3 be straight
  4 be gay (no one is allowed to choose this one, So Sayeth the Lord Almighty, and if you do YOU WILL BURN IN HELL FOREVER!)
  what a load of crap. smile my friends, your time is near. Mikel
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  ....again...God made everyone, he made me and I was a thief and con artist and very almost a murderer, that was genetic, because sin is generational, that is; my fornication was a result of my enforcing a predisposition to sexual sin passed down through the generations, and my genealogy proves that.
  
  Like wise my murderous tendency was a direct link from my father who killed innocents whilst in Burma during WW2.
  
  Sexual sin affects 10 generations.
  Most other sin affects 4 generations.
  
  Until someone breaks the chain in those generations (by recognising the sin and repenting of it) then the subsequent generations have a propensity to reinforce the sins and pass it forward.
  
  Homosexuals are no worse off than fornicators, thieves or liars, and no less forgiven once they stop their rebellion against God.
  
  I cannot deny that God makes clear that He regards homosexuality (but not the homosexual) as an abomination, and He tells us that in both the old and new covenants.
  
  The current thinking is that we all must accept homosexuality as normal, when in fact it cannot be normal, for anal penetration and activities like fisting are not pleasant things to even think about for the vast majority of people, and that is what constitutes normal... the standard was always the 'man on the top of a Clapham omnibus'and this criterion was(used to be) applied by judges in making decisions.
  
  Now the criterion is what power the minority has to exert and how politically correct we need to be in order not to offend anyone.
  
  But it is permitted to offend those who like me, care nothing what people do in private, but do care and get offended when people want to make it into a cause to be fought for, and try to force me to accept what is not normal to me and millions of others.
  
  I believe fully that homosexuals should have no prejudice against them in our secular society, that they should have equality in all aspects, that is a human right, but equally homosexuals must agree that I have the right to my opinions also, and the right to be treated equally by society, for holding them.
  
  Stop trying to label anyone who does not like homosexuality as homophobes, it's a lie and a deception, they are just normal people expressing their dislike of something others do that they do not approve of.
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  SirDentposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You did it now. They are going to crucify you.
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Are they now.... crucifixion runs in the family as well!
  
  Guess I'd be in good company, all the disciples except John were martyred for the faith, (and they boiled him in oil) that's one of the things that persuaded me of the truth of their testimony, people really have to believe something to not recant when they are being crucified!
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I agree Gays need to realize that to most people what they(gays) are drawn to, will be discomfitting at best. I have an example, Somewhere in the world eating monkey brains out of the skull of monkeys is considered a delicacy. I would be disgusted seeing something like that, for the people that love it, there is nothing better, but for those of us that are 1 not used to it or 2 have tried it and don't like it the same joy won't ever be found. So if in order for you to feel good about yourself you have to be in the majority. You will either have to come to terms with the fact that your delicacies are to be hidden from the actual majority. Or you will have to come to terms with the fact that your in a minority, that may never be completely accepted by the actual majority.
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  AdsenseStrategiesposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  True, but of course your rights not to be mugged or attacked in the streets, catcalled or insulted (etc), should still be the same as everybody else's (as I'm sure you feel, in any case)
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Very much so
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Very little was carried across as commandments for believers, all they decided to rule on was fornication, consuming blood and strangled things, those things are forbidden.
  
  Believers in Christ is free to ignore all other aspects of the original covenant if it is not reiterated in the new covenant.
  
  To Ernest I would say that all the murder and mayhem he loves to quote is absent from the new covenant, and as a new covenant believer,I refuse to be bated by his constant chiding.
  
  Now I will agree that Churchianity has focussed on lots of OT rules, but Pharisees will always do that, and exist in any community, including non believers.
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  And what would you say to someone like me, I believe that the Bibles are outdated at best. Most of the truth has vanished from their pages, and lots of the things the ancient/modern religions say they teach they don't. I (though I am not a Nazi nor an anti-semite) believe that Israel and the jewish "nation" are some of the oldest and most arrogant terrorists on the planet. Don't get me wrong Israel in all her thousands of years of constant warfare, has become a very strong people, and some arrogance is merited, but as far as a people not listening to the voice of God. How long have the jewish people been in a state of turmoil? How long have they been at war? When will the supposed "Kingdom of Heaven" the "Promised Land" be anything but "Hell on Earth" ? Maybe I'm wrong, maybe God isn't saying anything by the constant wars, the unending hate... Maybe Hell is the people of the promised land's heaven. To me they are BIG statements, something isn't right. Something needs fixed... but hey that's me.
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Mike, it should be remembered that the current secular Israeli society is not necessarily the Jews that the bible refers to.
  
  Zionism has many great differences from Judaism.
  
  I have long been a supporter of the Jewish people and their right to return to the land they were evicted from in the diaspora, yes God did evict them, as is His right, but yes God also wrote load and clearly that He would bring them back.
  
  There are currently many Jewish Christians who live in Israel, as there are many rabbi's who secretly accept Christ as the promised Messiah.
  
  You seem to have a deep anger in you against the bible and God, which I understand, been there in my past history, but we may as well rage against the weather or nightfall, for God is going to have His way in any case, our choice is to be with Him or against Him.
  
  One thing is for sure, whereas our atheist friends hate Christ, and our Jewish friends also hate Christ, our Jewish friends will have no problem bowing the knee and confessing His name ONCE they see for sure that He is the Messiah.
  
  Sensible people bless the Jewish people if for no other reason than the bible tells us that IF we bless them , we will be blessed, and vice versa if we do not bless them.
  
  No nation or people have ever attacked the Jewish people without suffering the consequences.
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  marinealways24posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Rewards, favoritism, separatism.
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  silver water, thank you for your reply. I highlighted a section of your text. The highlighted section is not what I feel for God. I have no anger for God in my heart, for the bibles either. I love God and I know God. The bibles, are flawed instruments(tools), written by imperfect beings. They don't have all the answers, that is my only problem with the Bibles.
  Most of the rest of your statement to me sounds like a warriors speech to a potential ally or enemy. Part threat, part promise, part pride. The worst thing about the beliefs of Judaism is the eye for an eye. Because what that one belief leads to is eternal war. If everyone believed in Judaism then Humanity would die. Because it is not possible for an entity to not offend at least one other entity during it's existence. Eye for an eye dictates revenge for the offense, and revenge for the revenge and so on and so on. Fix that, and you will find that you have an entire world of friends at your doorstep. Embrace it and you will not, part threat, part promise, part pride. Mikel
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  OK Mikel, now you're keeping me up!
  
  Last reply for tonight.
  
  Israeli Jews obviously have a tendency to be very heavy in defence and retaliation, but we see the same here on the forum and there is a lot less at stake.
  
  Remember that the world has tried to wipe out the Jewish people consistently over many centuries, and as the Arabs proudly told them, "We only have to win ONCE" because the Muslims would annihilate the nation if they could.
  
  So Israel does not allow that by using force whenever they are attacked.
  
  I think you will find that it has always been the Israelis who have responded to attacks against them. The six day war was a first strike situation for them, as the Arab forces were lined up waiting the order to invade, but apart from that the Jews have always responded rather than attacked first.
  
  We can agree to differ on the in errancy or otherwise of the scriptures, I credit God with providing exactly what we need to get saved, and even the most atrocious translation of the bible will allow that to happen. God told us what He wanted us to know, not all that we want to know, most of which we cannot understand, but sufficient to receive His grace.
  
  The bible does have all the answers, but we frankly rarely know what the question should be, and most people are unable to understand what God is saying in them in the first place.
  
  The bible is a coded book to those who have not asked God for revelation and been anointed with His Holy Spirit.
  
  There is no gnostic secret here, it's available to anyone who is willing to ask and receive what God wishes to give us.
  
  Not many are prepared to seek or obey though.
  
  Now I must sleep, back in about six hours!
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You are so close to saying what I have written in my hub, about how I see God, But at the same time light years away. I do admire your intelect.
  People get hung up on the Hell concept like it was a sentence passed down by God, because the Christian churches teach it that way. Exactly that way. Only God judges ...Judge not lest ye be judged... Judgement is the sentence of heaven or Hell...(the day of reckoning)...
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  (note that not being the first terrorists, still means they are Terrorists?)
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  AdsenseStrategiesposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  That can't be right. There have been religions for tens of thousands of years, as of course, no doubt, there has always been violence -- but terrorism the way we usually use the word can only exist when there are nation-states, or empires.
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  The Crusades?
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  SirDentposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Do you think everyone can acknowledge God and know Him on their own?
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Me personally yes. God has the ability to be a personal friend to each and every one of us. Humanity has it in them to have a singlular relationship with God. The fact that each of us see things differently, even when looking at the exact same thing, leads me to believe that a personal understanding of God is what God intended. Some people's ability to know God won't be as "deep" as some others, but that is the nature of everything.
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  SirDentposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I will say now that I agree partially with what you wrote. It is in every human being to have a singular relationship with God. This is how God intended it to begin with.
  
  I also state that no man can understand God. He is so far beyind our comprehension that we can't even get close to understanding Him.
  
  I will also say that no man can know God in any way unless God reveals Himself first.
  
  As far as different people seeing God differently shows that man is the one who lacks knowledge and understanding. God is the same no matter where He is acknowledged. His personality and character is always the same no matter which nationality, belief, non-belief, etc. . .
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  marinealways24posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It's just a worshiping idols if not worshiping the bible god right.
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  HUH? I don't understand your what your saying...
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  SirDentposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  marine is only trying to make a scene.
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  marinealways24posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  lol Don't act like that, you know exactly what I am saying. The bible says and teaches that any belief of a god outside of the bibles definition of god is only "false idols".
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Of course it says that, if you were one of the writers of the bible would you write that only that other group over there is correct, and WE are really wrong?
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  marinealways24posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  That was in response to sirdent. He tries to run faith circles around me sometimes by acting like he doesn't know what I am talking about.
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Shh, sir dent is a deep guy, he has a lot going on...
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  SirDentposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You claim understanding of something you do not adhere to.
  
  I do know what you are saying and I also know the mtoive behind it.
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  marinealways24posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  What is my hidden agenda and motive? More tricks of the devil?
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  again true but, it is humanities inability to "see" and understand God in God's entirety, that lead humans to say that "only this" is God, that(which actually is also a part of God) thing/part/entity isnt part of God (satan for example). I believe God is EVERYTHING, and everything minus anything is no longer everything it is something else. Leave out anything at all and it becomes only a partial truth, or just a part/piece of God.
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  SirDentposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You call God "It" like He is nothing more than an object. Man cannot understand God, but God can reveal Himself to man.
  
  How could God reveal Himself to man? That is the real question.
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I call God IT because I KNOW God is so much more than a pathetic human, and Humanity is not capable of producing a word to adequetly "name" God. Calling God a man "limits" GOD, I try to not "limit" God by calling God something that is sooo much less than what God is.
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
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  SirDentposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Do you think God has a personality and character?
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  a Human personality and character, not exactly.
  In your attempts to understand God you are trying very hard to Humanize God, God is NOT human.
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  SirDentposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Man was created in the image and likeness of God. God has emotions, feelings, just like we do. This makes God a person, though far above what men are.
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I knew that was what your stumbling block was. God made man in his image, written by a caveman, with a caveman's perception of the universe, with a caveman's ability to communicate.
  God made our souls in God's likeness(in a way similar to what God is), not the cocoons(human bodies) that hold our souls until they(our souls) are strong enough, seasoned enough to shed the cocoon and continue on to whatever is next.
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  SirDentposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Actually God breathed into man the breath of life. This is when man became a living soul.
  
  I'll be back later in the day to reply again. I have things to do.
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  and again, taken from the words of a caveman, with a caveman's understanding of linguistics and the universe.
  Tell me what you think, not what they think.
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  SirDentposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Do you believe God can keep His Word?
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  The generic answer, God can do anything. now what's your point?
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  SirDentposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  The point is, if God has a Word, then He will keep His Word. His Word will remain the same no matter what. He does not have to change His mind like we do.
  Five thousand years ago, fire was hot. It is still hot today. Nothing has changed that fact.
  
  When speaking of God, we speak of someone who does not change. We speak of someone who knows and sees all things. We speak of someone who knows how to get man's attention. We speak of someone who wants a relationship with mankind.
  
  We do not speak of someone who forces mankind into a relationship.
  
  We all have freedom to choose what we believe or do not believe. That is a God given right by the way.
  
  So if God is all that I wrote here, why wouldn't the same God be able to keep His Word intact?
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  (Q)posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Despite the fact we have an OT and an NT?
  
  The same can be said about the claims of theists and their gods lack of existence. Nothing has changed that fact, either.
  
  So, was it Zeus or Thor who gave us that right? Maybe Allah?
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  OK what WORD is it that God hasn't "kept in tact". If by God's word you mean the Bibles, it is because the bibles were written in a time when Humanity was primitive, we have grown, evolved, and changed. Our changes change our perspective, our point of view, our understanding.
  When we were toddlers, baby talk made sense, it is insulting to think that because baby talked worked well when we were 3, that we have to continue with baby talk for all eternity. The Bibles are now baby talk, the point of view of primitives. Expressed to the best of the primitives ability, inspired by God, but not perfect, and definately not the best we can ever achieve. Imagine if we treated Medical books the way your trying to treat the Bibles...
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  SirDentposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You are missing the point. Probably my fault for not making it simpler.
  
  As I said before, we are talking about God. God is eternal. He has never changed. Man has changed, but God remains the same. Since God remains the same, His Word remains the same.
  
  What you speak, is what comes from your heart. It is who you are. It is the same with everyone, including God.
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Your right, your not making any sense to me. I may not be smart enough to grasp the concept your trying to get me to understand. However, God does change, God is not stagnet. God grows with every new soul.
  The thing your not understanding isn't that God changes so the bibles have to change, it is that in first grade we weren't capable of understanding college level algebra, so the first math books taught us adding and subtracting. Once we got to a level where we could understand algebra, the math books changed. That doesn't mean Math changed.
  We are at a level now where we can understand God better, a more detailed, more accurate version of what God has always been. It doesn't mean that what we learned from the addition and subtraction classes is no longer valid, it is just that they are primitive concepts. We have grown to a better understanding of math and of God.
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I think it's a great assumption to think that we understand God any better than Moses or Abraham or Joseph or (ad infinitum) because those guys had no 'white noise' to distract them as we do all the time, and they all had very personal encounters with Gods Holy Spirit in a time when that was a very limited experience.
  
  The bible says that as we enter the end times there will be an increase of knowledge but a lack of understanding, and that is so relevant concerning today's world... we have folk who know everything but understand very little... so I think we can rely on the fact that God expressed to the authors of the bible exactly what he meant for mankind to know and for believers to understand.
  
  The bible is a coded book, not in the Da Vinci or Bible Codes style of stuff, but one which can be understood by anyone who has the key, and the key is the Holy Spirit, and just like any information that is privee and could be misused by an enemy, that key is only given to those who God knows will not abuse the privilege of UNDERSTANDING what the bible was/is /will be saying.
  
  It's a history book of past, present and future history, and the very word history is actually 'His Story' and the bible from Genesis to Revelation tells us just that: His story.
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  marinealways24posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Ridiculous.
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  ....care to enlarge upon that pronouncement?
  
  One word replies leave so much to the imagination and have little substance to chew upon.
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  marinealways24posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Many words you write doesn't make them make sense simply because you write many of them.
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Fine, which bits did not make sense, I'll try to improve on the communication, because (obviously) the words I write make sense to me, and possibly to others (open question?) so if I am not making myself clear I want to correct that error, and if I am in error about what I write,(according to yourself) then please feel free to correct me, for I do not wish to be in error either.
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  marinealways24posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Well, I think you should start with covering 1 thought at a time. I don't think it makes you smarter than anyone else just because you choose to write books on the forums.
  
  "The bible is a coded book, not in the Da Vinci or Bible Codes style of stuff, but one which can be understood by anyone who has the key, and the key is the Holy Spirit, and just like any information that is privee and could be misused by an enemy, that key is only given to those who God knows will not abuse the privilege of UNDERSTANDING what the bible was/is /will be saying."
  
  A coded book? A believer key? The holy spirit? So God favors some to get the magic key and says the hell with the others.
  If God blocked your book off to the enemy, why do I understand the psychology of your belief?
  Everything you wrote was ridiculous.
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  ...*sigh*...
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Understanding the psychology of 'my' belief is not the same as understanding the bible, which you do not seem to understand, but please correct me if you are a believer filled with the Holy Spirit, is that the case?
  
  If you are not, then obviously you will not possess that 'key' I refer to.
  
  "So God favors some to get the magic key and says the hell with the others."
  
  God favours nobody, God is NOT a respecter of persons, you have the same access to the key as any other believer, but obviously you must believe and God must be able to see in your inner being that you are genuine in that belief.
  
  It's not "the hell with the others." - it's your choice whether you wish to comply with the conditions that gain you the key, or continue in your rebellion against God.
  
  As a Marine, would you give someone opposed to your whole authority a security pass into the base intelligence section?
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  marinealways24posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Ridiculous
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  AdsenseStrategiesposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  For the last freakin' time, an all-compassionate, all-merciful, all-powerful, all-seeing, all-loving God that would permit ordinary, decent folks to end up in eternal damnation is ILLOGICAL. And don't give me this "He does not intervene in human affairs, that would disrespectful to our freedom" line, because the Bible is *full* of such interventions; stopping the sun over a battlefield, for example, bringing Lazarus back from the dead, and on and on. Either he intervenes or he doesn't. For him not to intervene but let a nice young man go to hell who has died early in life, but not "repented" etc, does not make sense if he is all the adjectives I started my rant with...
  
  ...Look, we are all using English here. So, we all agree what "all" "compassionate" and "powerful" mean. So, it is not logical, it is outside God's character as defined by these adjectives, if hell is not only for the ultra-wicked -- I mean, eternity is a frig of a long time. I have no problem with freedom of religion, but a belief has to be logical with *itself* if you want even half a hope of converting people who *believe* that things need to make sense!
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  First I posted (here I think) a post that explained that I could see the relevance in what is termed 'universalism' and if you study that 'heresy' (or branch of Christianity dependent upon ones position)it makes sense that when God states he desires ALL to be saved, He is capable of doing that.
  
  I work within a church structure that has traditions woven into it's very fabric of belief and daily activity, and for good reason, because we are not the first generation to discuss these things, we just are the first generation to do so instantly and with only a few seconds or minutes consideration time before we reply, a luxury unknown before the internet.... can you imagine these exchanges using snail mail?.... much slower, but also much more considered and weighed and measured, because there would be time to explore and consider the opinions expressed by the other correspondent.
  
  Universalism answers eternity with simple brush strokes that fall foul of faith, yet make eminent sense to any open minded person.
  
  The 'lake of fire' becomes a refining fire where the 'dross' of our sin is burnt off to reveal/leave only the good aspects of our existence.
  
  Obviously having a full exposure of every non repented sin may be painful as every perfected saint in history would be watching your exposure, but it is time limited by the extent of your transgressions not dealt with before death.
  
  The 'second death' equates to annihilation for those who are beyond redemption and unrepentant.
  
  This is the ultimate snub as it demonstrates that the nihilist is so worthless that they are abandoned to none existence...
  
  ...and so it goes onward.
  
  It makes an interesting case which few Christians could or would answer, certainly not from the pulpit or in front of the congregation.
  
  The ONLY problem that it cannot solve is the death and conclusion of Judas... where it states that it would have been better that he had never been born, for that indicates that there could be a worse fate than annihilation, that there could and should be an existence worse than either life or nihilism.
  
  It falls into my category which states that any doctrine that my decision on could NOT affect my eternal situation is inconsequential, and universalism dictates that NOBODY is lost to hell and all will be saved... so it represents no threat to my traditional churches beliefs, whereas.... to abandon the position that has formulated over many centuries of other believers considering and agreeing what constitutes the foundational basis of our faith could be a bad mistake to make in eternal destiny stakes...
  
  Apologies to all for another book, maybe I should just write my replies as hubs!
  
  Unfortuantely I do take these things seriously and have spent the time studying the matters, so the replies tend to be a bit more detailed than LOLOLOLO and or just plain 'ridiculous'
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  OMG, as if God fears anything, as if God would have to HIDE the truth so that all those ENTITIES that are as powerful as GOD, wont snatch away God's secrets to GOD's safety. AS IF GOD needs protection from god's enemies, all of which are entities that god created. AS IF God had any weakness at all, that would require the almighty all powerful all encompassing unlimited being to have to have secrets that could, if they fall into the wrong hands be used to kill GOD.
  your a mental child, go and learn how to reason, THANK YOU FOR PLAYING.
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  marinealways24posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Answer 1 question for me. How is it possible for a logical person to have a conversation with a religionist when you have so many emotions tied into your belief?
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Why is that ridiculous Marine?
  
  Would you let Osama bib Laden into the security compound with explosives strapped to his chest or driving a truckload of explosives?
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  AS IF anything that got to GOD"S security hideout, where God hides in fear from God's enemies, could do anything to the all powerful being that God is...please give it a rest aqua, your sad dude.
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Sometimes it's hard to stay peaceable with someone who gets abusive and personal, but hey, that's what the forum is about.
  
  Don't put words into my mouth.
  
  I am fully aware of the omnipotence of God, God needs no protectors or defence.
  
  Thank YOU for 'playing'.
  
  Enjoy your playtime alone.
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Thank You I will.
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Thank You for playing
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Who's playing?
  
  I note that you seem to use that remark as a dismissive comment to show that you (as the owner of this forum) disapprove of the post made.... am I wrong?
  
  Or does it have some relevant and significant point to make?
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It is a dismissive statement. As the ground your statement takes us to, is one that has been so trampled and worn out. The dismissive statement is a thank you for your contribution, even though it is a stale wornout contribution. Hopefully my dismissive statement says that as politely as I can, without having to type all I have typed here every single time, for the multitude of people that are only repeating worn-out over-used rhetoric originating from someone/somewhere else.
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  ...and because you voice that opinion, it's a fact is it?
  
  I've just taken a while to start reading your 'hub' and got a fair way through before I realised that you are your own god, sure you give God a big mention, but choose to ignore His words and His truth.
  
  For starters, the ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH started 300 years after Christ walked the earth.
  
  Christ's church (body of believers) was started at Pentecost (Shauvat) just 50 days later than He ascended to heaven, and has been existent ever since.
  
  We can trace the torch of the testimony right through time until the present torch bearers took the flame over to carry forward.
  
  After that you get a bit wacky and weird, so I won't bother to go there at all.
  
  Enjoy your religion, and remember by your own standard God has prepared a small part of His kingdom for me to fit into, and I'm trying as best I can to do what my Father wills for my life, so please exercise a mite more consideration before you 'dismiss' me for not agreeing with you.
  
  Examine the beam before you start pointing out the churches motes..
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  BTW "the multitude of people that are only repeating worn-out over-used rhetoric" are the bedrock of faith that forms the body of Christ.
  
  By all means form your own denomination, why not everyone else has! - but it may be a while before you find many members, and frankly, I don't think there is sufficient time to form a new church before God wraps the whole thing up and calls time.
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Again, Thank You for playing.
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  fatfistposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  "By all means form your own denomination, why not everyone else has!"
  
  That statement is self-refuting as it also applies to YOU!
  Don't you have any better argument to support your position?
  
  Bottom line aqua, everybody can choose to believe in the god they want. You know that and I of all people should not have to tell you that.
  Your belief system is no better than someone else's. I thought you only attack atheists. Why are you attacking other believers? Because they don't believe exactly 100% as you do? Is your belief system the right and correct one? You are so full of yourself buddy.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  
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  Leta Sposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  The professor will be pleased you learned a new concept/word, "self refuting," from him.
  
  How funny.
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  who is "the professor"?
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Thank You for Playing...
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  SirDentposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You are wrong with this assumption. As far as I am concerned this conversation is over. It is going nowhere. Thanks for what we did converse about.
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I'm sorry you feel that way. I'm not wrong however. We have grown in the understandings of both the concept of math, and the true nature of God, from what we understood 2,000 years ago.
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  SirDentposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  First, you must know why hell was created. Man wasn't meant to go there. God created man to live forever. No death, no sickness.
  
  Man made a choice one day to listen to the voice of Satan. (OOPS) Men choose to follow God or follow Satan. To live in righteousness or live in unrighteousness.
  
  God made a way of escape for all who want it.
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I have to disagree, on almost all of it. First you dont know that Hell exists let alone Why it exists(if it does at all), Second God did not intend our human forms to last for ever, or they would, God doesn't make stuff "faulty", the things God creates work just as God intended them to work. Third God did create sickness, and Death. Fourth Since your saying that sickness and death came after Humanity "decided" to not follow God, see point #3 Fifth If following God means that we live forever why do "righteous people still die? Lastly, none of what your saying answers the original question... Are Christians Terrorists?
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  Ken R. Abellposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  First question: No, God does not need violence or threats...
  
  Second question: No, God does not need hell...
  
  Third question: I do not/have not/would not threaten my children or anyone else with hell...
  
  As to the title question: Christians the first terrorists? What evidence or history would you reference to support that idea?
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  The definition of: -Terrorism- is the systematic use of terror especially as a means of coercion. Listing the many wars of all the Christian Nations would be too lengthy, so lets limit it to "the Crusades".
  But on a fundemental level, from the birth of Christianity the theme do as your told or suffer this fate...(burning in hell forever) is extremely prevelent. Another example, the Salem Witch hunts...
  
  Lastly threatening your children does not mean you have to actually say clean your room right now young lady! or I'll put you in Hell to burn forever... It is an implied threat, you/we tell them that you must follow God/Jesus or you might end up in Hell. They get told that often, if not every sunday, close. They/we took it to heart, I still get told by people that I should watch what I say cause if I'm not careful I'm going to go to Hell...
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  "Do you believe God needs violence and threats to get humanity to do what God intends us to?" No
  
  That God needs Hell? No.
  
  I'd take a good long look at the concept of Hell, it was really made 'popular' by the RCC in about 300AD, and before that there was a good case for what is called 'universalism' today, Hell as a concept depends upon how much you want to see those who reject God suffer! - It's a control thing, but not by God. Yes God may well have needed to create a place to accommodate those who refuse to be with Him, and yes that could be a bad place to be, as everyone who disliked God would be lumped together, but God did not create Hell to punish, He created what must be like hell for people who do not want to be with Him.
  
  "Why do we threaten our children, with Hell?" - 'We' don't.
  
  There is no point in threatening anybody with Hell, if they believe it exists then obviously they will think long and hard before they consign themselves to such a place, if they don't believe in Hell, they should see no threat.
  
  "Is it to make them believe in God? Or is it just to make them obey, when telling them the truth wont work?"
  
  Well I have told my children the truth (whatever that is) and never threatened hell to them and they obey me because they know that scripturally the ONLY conditional blessing in the 10 Commandments is to honour your parents that it may go well with you, which implies that if you dishonour (disobey) your parents, you WILL have problems in life.
  
  If you cannot explain to a child why they need to obey you, then you are in error, because unless you know yourself why obedience is required in certain circumstances, how can you explain to others?
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  marinealways24posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I think the emotions are the main construction of the religious belief. If you would notice in the forums, most religious people can't hold a logical conversation because they get offended when debating their belief. When they get offended or start to lose an arguement, they start slinging emotional insults. I think the emotions are also the main factor that keeps religious people in the belief.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  And fear of the unknown. If they don't know how something works god must have made it happen!
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  marinealways24posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, I agree Earnest. I think it's truly limiting when a person can just say "God did it" instead of thinking to figure things out.
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  wsp2469posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I can't believe I am doing this instead of writing a hub but--here goes:
  In order of their asking/my responses:
  No because God knows we have free will since Adam and Eve.
  God doesn't need Hell.
  I don't know that we all DO threaten our children with Hell.
  Can't answer this question if we DON'T all threaten our children with Hell in the first place.
  Can't answer the last question either since --again--we don't know that we all threaten our children with Hell.
  okay, on to the next hub!
  (That was simple enough!)
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  
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  Bibowenposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Christianity as terrorism....yeah...
  
  She was right. I had a teacher who said that some people produce quality work and the world sits up and takes notice. Still others state and do the outrageous in order to get attention. It's the difference between observing the works of Michelangelo and Michael Moore.
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Well Stated.
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  megs78posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Don't we do the same thing when it comes to Santa? 'you better be good or I'm calling santa...' Parents will try anything to make kids listen
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yea I guess in a way, what your saying is another way of using an implied threat.
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  Rod Marsdenposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  There were quite a few religions around using terror tactics before Christianity came on the scene.
  
  The old testament put a stop to human sacrifice which I think was a good thing. The new testament was against the stoning of people, including women. Not a bad idea.
  
  The Crusades were a form of terrorism with Heaven being bought by active service in killing other people. Later on Indulgences had the scare factor in that you can pay the Pope not to land in Hell after you die or have a loved one saved from Hell.
  
  What does God need with humans smashing each other's heads over religion of any sort? Damned silly idea if you ask me.
  
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I agree, damned silly, but it still goes on. They just point their fingers at the "others" and say they caused this action not me. It was their fault, if they would only....
  So what was your answer to the question? Are Christians Terrorists? (agreed they aren't the "first" terrorists)
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  awareposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  ohh i see i have a very different idea of god. my idea of god is not the hands on type .
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Thank You for playing.
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  Friendlywordposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I think we are all going to the same place. I'm just not sure if we'll need a sweater or a fan. Even if you are a religious person of any faith; how could you believe God would save you and not his child standing next to you? We are all going to dance in Heaven or Burn in Hell Together.
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Fear not, life is not about making it to heaven or avoiding hell, it is about learning and growth, seasoning. We are all learning. God will not condemn you or anyone to eternal damnation for making mistakes. That doesn't mean go out into the world and reak havoc, commiting all manner of atrocities. Laws must still be followed, consequences for your actions are always there. It just means that God loves us, and understands us, and our shortcomings. I would have to say the next part of our journey isnt "heavenly retirement" so put away your fan and your sweater, and get ready for college, we still have much to learn after this. Mikel
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  Friendlywordposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  There you go!!!
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  
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  chambersgirl21posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hell is not a literal place where people go to be tormented day and night. Hell is to die. I dont threaten my kids with it either, I show them the truth in the Bible and God guides them from their.
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  AdsenseStrategiesposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Ahhhhhhh - finally some relief! Finally a Christian on this site who sees the craziness of the belief in hell. Eternal damnation as a fate for most normal folks is totally contradictory with an all-powerful, all-compassionate, all-merciful God (not that I believe in God, but I just want people to have a theology that agrees with itself, if they are going to pressure or want others to believe it). A voice of reason... at last
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I'm not understanding you, You say "Hell is to die"...??? In this thread, the fact that Hell is an implied threat is mentioned...
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  chambersgirl21posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  All I am saying is that hell is not a literal place so why would I threaten anyone with having to go there if thats not what really happens when you die.
  God does not conduct the violence and terrorism in our world people who are under the devils thumb do.
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  AdsenseStrategiesposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Now that's a Christianity I can (almost) get on board with. (not being sarcastic btw)
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  chambersgirl21posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Well what makes you not want to get on board?
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  AdsenseStrategiesposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I don't believe it, to be honest, I mean, none of it, I don't think, at any rate. Maybe I've travelled enough, and met enough people in the West, who clearly have *completely* different worldviews that they are *equally* sure is right.
  
  I mean, I could believe in the Judaism of some of my relatives (I am not sure how much they even believe it actually), but I don't. Or I could believe in the Islam or Hinduism of some of my other friends or acqaintances.
  
  Or, you know, the religion of the Aztecs.
  
  But I don't think atheist-materialists can say they know for sure, either.
  
  I guess, once you don't believe in a soul, and do trust your own conscience, well, the rest doesn't seem very necessary (for me).
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  But aren't most terrorists "believers"? Aren't most of them "killing for God"?
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  AdsenseStrategiesposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You can believe in God and not believe in Hell. I did that for years
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  chambersgirl21posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I believe in both, if that makes sense? It talks about hell and hellfire in the Bible. People have turned the idea of hell into something completely different then what it is though.
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  AdsenseStrategiesposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  But it only makes sense to me in the context of the rest of Christian belief if hell is reserved for extreeeemely bad cases
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  And that's where the misconceptions start (of heaven and hell)... Only bad people go to hell, really bad people go to worse Hell...etc
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Then? What exactly is hell?
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  chambersgirl21posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  The wages for sin is death. Hell is referred to as the grave. When you die you go into the grave. Hell is never living again, not being able to live an eternity with Jesus Christ but simply being blotted out of the book of life.
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  AdsenseStrategiesposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Again, if you have to believe in "standard" Christianity, this is the way to do it. Because eternal suffering makes no sense if God is "all-compassionate" (same criticism for Islam, incidentally).
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I understand what your saying and I agree. But the use of the concept word "death" I believe to be confusing. I think a better way to describe it is "nothing" or "non-existence" because the Human form must "Die" so "death" is something we must all experience. Being "un-created" or becoming "non-existent" is , I think, a better term to use.
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  chambersgirl21posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Well, their will be people who die twice so.....
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Having to experience something more than once doesn't negate the fact that "ALL" must endure it(death of our human form) once. "ALL" people don't have to experience "UN-creation" (or going to hell, or non-existence, or any of the terms we've used to identify the concept of "heavens opposite")
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  chambersgirl21posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I feel like were going around in circles. anyways to add to it, not EVERYONE will have to endure death nor has EVERYONE in the past had to endure it.
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Can you point to a person that didn't have to die? I mean from the past as you say that didn't have to endure death?
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  chambersgirl21posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  The apostle of Jesus named John, he never died, he went straight to heaven
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  What he was beamed up human body intact? Did he stop aging?
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  chambersgirl21posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  ahhh...your starting to catch on
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  No actually I'm not. I find it highly unlikely. This is the first time I've heard this particular story, and having studied this subject my whole life. I find it strange that I have found no mention before now, of what your claiming, which would be as great an event as an alien spaceship crashing in the New Mexico dessert. Since it isn't generally proclaimed or publicised I find it to be at best unlikely. Not that that makes it untrue, because I can't prove that either, but I have many doubts.
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  chambersgirl21posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Okay while talking with you yesterday I was also doing bible studies and named the wrong person who never suffered death. I am sorry. I hate when that happens cuz it only brings confusion.It was not John who never suffered death it was Enoch and Elijah. Moses was also resurrected from the dead to meet with Jesus and God in heaven. Enoch, who went straight to heaven represents the people that will still be alive when Jesus comes the Second time, and Moses being resurrected from the dead represents the dead in Christ who will be resurrected when he comes the second time. Once again sorry for the mistake.
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  getitriteposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  As a fairy-tell, I can accept this, but as the ultimate truth it lacks any claim to reality!
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  chambersgirl21posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  and that is your opinion.
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  SirDentposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Scripture reference please.
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  Ralph Deedsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Here's an answer to your question
  
  http://www.adirondackdailyenterprise.co … ent.detail
  /id/510214.html?nav=5041
  
  http://www.adirondackdailyenterprise.co … l?nav=5041
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  The first link is not working for me, but the second linked article has some enlightening text!
  Charles March, a self-described evangelical Christian and professor of religion at the University of Virginia, examined the speeches of numerous "influential evangelical ministers" in the six months prior to the invasion of Iraq in March 2003. According to Marsh, "The single most common theme among the war sermons appeared to be this: Our president is a real brother in Christ, and because he has discerned that God's will is for our nation to be at war against Iraq, we shall gloriously comply."
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  No one want to touch this?
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  A Texanposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  No one cares, you should be use to that!
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  No, not at all, I usually get responses. Even if it is from some smart ass!
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  A Texanposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Better me than from some Dumb ass!
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  lyricsingrayposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry, a lightweight Dumb ass then. If you were half as smart as you think you are you would be twice as smart as you are.
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  sandra rinckposted 13 years agoin reply to this
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You rang?
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  Ralph Deedsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Try this link http://www.adirondackdailyenterprise.co … l?nav=5041
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  Frugal Fannyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I am a christian-turned-pagan, and I find that there are a lot of converted pagans who turned away from christianity only to become very anti-christian. I didn't turn away from it because I considered it to be hateful. I turned away because the belief system just didn't gel with what I believed in. I had no dislike for the religion itself.
  
  Many of those anti-christians will go on and on about how millions of people have died under the banner of christianity, but remember this: just as some christians persecute members of other faiths, so did those other faiths do their fair share of the persecuting. The door swings both ways. Christians were among the first people cast into the lions' den. By what we today would call pagans (just a label, though).
  
  So, before anyone whips out the tar brush, try looking at both sides of the story.
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Nicely Stated.
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  Frugal Fannyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  TY
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  YVW
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sneakorocksolidposted 13 years ago
The only entity that demands obiedence is satan. Thats why he is called the advisary. Jesus came to show us we can choose what we want,"Free Agency". The offer was for more good not a threat of violence.
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  And what about the Pope, all priests have to swear an Oath of Obedience, so your saying the Pope is...I'll leave that blank. Jesus says in your Bible several times that you MUST Obey Jesus, or burn in hell forever...NO? "Only through me(Jesus) shall ye ..."
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pgrundyposted 13 years ago
Christianity isn't what one person says it is. If you try to figure out what Christianity is from these forums, of course you come up with something horrifying. But the vast majority of Christians just try to lead decent lives and don't have time to show their butts on the internet.

There's way too many loudmouths representing 'Christianity' these days who are doing the faith no favors.
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  sneakorocksolidposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  OW PAM!
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Well Said.
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  Presigoposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  The "faith" is not a disease or something that you have or dont that is spread. Faith is an INDIVIDUAL experience that can be shared, or not. Those of faith have a very unique and individual experiences with Christ. So I don't agree that the "faith" is subject to people doing it favors. God is within us, the church is a group of people with varrying degrees of faith, an entirely different phenomonon.
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  Friendlywordposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  The problem is the good, decent Christian sit on their butts and dont say anything to the loudmouths. Dont they realize how much they outnumber the Christian that make the faith look bad?
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  AdsenseStrategiesposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yes it's true -- sounds exactly right; I guess this is a universal problem, when it comes to religions... (a tiny but highly visible minority making the countless millions of normal, sensible ones look like fanatics.......)
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  eoveryposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Pam you hit the nail on straight on the head with this comment! I totally agree.
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  C.J. Wrightposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Well said.
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h.a.borcichposted 13 years ago
I am really having a hard time visualizing myself as a terrorist as I bring a dinner to a needy family. Maybe the family I adopt at Christmas just accepts the gifts and groceries because they are afraid not to?
My point - Most christians are like what PGrundy described- decent people living lives. Holly
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  From that point of view, so are most "terrorists"
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  h.a.borcichposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  What exactly does that mean? You think I am a terrorist?
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  No what I meant by that was terrorists don't treat their families bad, when they serve dinner to their children it isn't with a side of c-4. They are nice to their own of course, as you said most people that exist are just the good honest hardworking, taking care of their-own kind people. Terrorists included. It is when they are confronted with someone or something not their own, someone or something that disagrees with them that they pull out the c-4, or the sarcasm, depending on the level of terrorism.
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  h.a.borcichposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Well, I have never touched c-4 whether it was before or after feeding my family or any other family dinner. I have demonstrated I can disagree with people and still not touch the c-4! I admit to having been sarcastic at times - but that would make you a terrorist just in your responses on this thread. As for coersion - I have raised a child and confessed to having used various means to encourage compliance with rules as a child.
  Am I a terrorist? Are you? Holly
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Holly, thank you. For your honesty and your open mindedness. By the definition of terrorism and I quote,
  "ter⋅ror⋅ism /ˈtɛrəˌrɪzəm/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [ter-uh-riz-uhm]
  –noun 1. the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, esp. for political purposes.
  2. the state of fear and submission produced by terrorism or terrorization.
  3. a terroristic method of governing or of resisting a government. "
  I would have to say Yes, I am or have been a terrorist. My children are almost as hard headed as me, many a times I have loomed over them saying things that terrorized them into compliance. Yes, I have as a member of the United States Military threatened and intimidated foreign nationals in order to coerce them into compliance for political purposes.
  
  Does that make me a suicide bomber?, a flunky of Osama?
  
  NO
  
  My point to this forum was and is... What is true at one level of understanding may not be true at another. The aspects of God at one level, said in a certain way (God is an alien for example) are true at that level and while still technically true at a higher level, they aren't as true. So yes Christianity the organization is a terrorist organization, but it is also an organization made up of people that aren't. Christianity though ultimately an organization of good has a bad side as well. Mikel
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livelongerposted 13 years ago
In any religion, you will always find some who are dogmatic and threaten you with an eternity of pain and suffering if you don't obey. It is certainly not limited to Christianity.

It's sad to imagine they are instilling the same irrational fear in their children, but it clearly does happen.
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tobey100posted 13 years ago
No, I think actually, Christians were the first live entertainment, as in the Coliseum with the lions.
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WriteAngledposted 13 years ago
I wouldn't say Christians were the first terrorists, but I reckon they have contributed significantly to terrorism. I weep for the knowledge they extinguished in Alexandria.
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prettydarkhorseposted 13 years ago
I cant believe this thread, christians are not terrorist, they never used guns or coercive ways,
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 13 years agoin reply to this
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  prettydarkhorseposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  hey COLT, Steelers lost so I am mad, GOD didnt hear my prayers, LOL LOL LOL
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  Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  True Christians would not, But Politions, and world leaders, have professed their motives for wars to be in the name of God.
  The Cruscales was proclamed to be in the name of God.
  BUT
  THESE WERE NOT TRUE CHRISTIANS.
  
  THIS WAS A FALSE RELIGION
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  prettydarkhorseposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  false christians you mean
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  Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I was also speaking of the Crucades....
  Which was actually a political war...
  Faught by false Christians in the name of God.
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  prettydarkhorseposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  ok
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It is the same Bible today as then? no?
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  wsp2469posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  to answer another yes or no question here in hopes of clearing this up so y'all can go write hubs: NO it's not the same Bible
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You have heard of the Crusades, the Holy Wars... The Salem Witch hunts where Christians burned women at the stake? The Spanish Inquisition... Stoning people to death for not following "God's" law... People that were killed for Blasphemy... Need I continue?
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  AdsenseStrategiesposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  No, maybe not guns -- swords though... (not that I agree with the assertion either -- Christianity has inspired both horrific acts and great acts of serene goodness; what's new; all things are usually a mixed bag)
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  sneakorocksolidposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I found a rational person!
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Truly, ALL things have a good and a bad side... well said.
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MikeNVposted 13 years ago
The only person who can speak for "God" is God.

Anyone here in these Forums seen "God"... not felt or read about or... actually SEEN. And where were you when that happened?

Religion is a creation of man.

If you want to try and understand God... just try and unravel the mysteries in Quantum Physics.
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  Lucky13agogoposted 13 years agoin reply to this
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  lyricsingrayposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  and perfect combed hair !!!!!!!!!!!!!
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  By actually seen you presume that God is a man? God is not an entity of human form. God is by definition everything... so technically by "seeing" anything at all you have "seen" a part of God. God is too big and too complex for humanity to comprehend let alone Identify as that guy over there.
  
  Religion is a creation of Humanity, God however isn't. Proof that God exists by my logic: If there is a lowest form of life, then there has to be a highest form of life. Humanity has named that entity (lots of things, but for today lets use) God.
  Understanding everything in existence is a good way to grow in the knowledge of God and what God is.
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  marinealways24posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I like your belief, I think it is pretty strong to put that out there. I think most religionist will say you only worship "idols" if you don't go by the bible because this is what it teaches. I also have faith in the possibility of creation, but it's not absolute. I'm not sure if absolutes are more or less limiting.
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lyricsingrayposted 13 years ago
Ha both
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  Lucky13agogoposted 13 years agoin reply to this
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  lyricsingrayposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  prepare for landing, please fasten your seat belts, put your chair in the upright position and distinguish all illegal substances, we're landing so we can take off again
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  Lucky13agogoposted 13 years agoin reply to this
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  lyricsingrayposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  
  Hubpages would love that
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  lyricsingrayposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  are we in a religious forum? hope so
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  Lucky13agogoposted 13 years agoin reply to this
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  lyricsingrayposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  oh cool
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  Lucky13agogoposted 13 years agoin reply to this
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  lyricsingrayposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  stand by
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  lyricsingrayposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  good for this thread
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  Lucky13agogoposted 13 years agoin reply to this
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  lyricsingrayposted 13 years agoin reply to this
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  Lucky13agogoposted 13 years agoin reply to this
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  lyricsingrayposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  xo now you
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  lyricsingrayposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  just fanned you
  
  and wheres your pic of some skin?
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  Lucky13agogoposted 13 years agoin reply to this
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  lyricsingrayposted 13 years agoin reply to this
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  They do have dating sites, and porn sites for that matter, why did it seem necessary to you to have this conversatione here? I'm just curious, I like sex as much as the next person, and don't find sex to be an evil thing... but manners and appropriate behaviors are good social skills to have. I mean how would you like it if someone was to come to your place and talk about how drug addicts should be treated. How they are terrible parents and there for should not ever be allowed to be around their own children? It would hurt you wouldn't it? Didn't it?
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awareposted 13 years ago
no their not
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sneakorocksolidposted 13 years ago
Hey St. Marine, this is exactly yhe type of crap that causes me to be insensitive.
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awareposted 13 years ago
i thought this was basically a yes or no question. im will to bet this .if i posted a yes or no forum , meaning responders would have to only post yes or no answers. it couldn't be done .
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wsp2469posted 13 years ago
no shit, huh?
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jobisterposted 13 years ago
People have been fighting and trying to covet from someone else since human beings have lived. In my opinion religion is a just a tool to control the masses. Man created God to get others to fear him. People only fear what they don't completely understand.
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SirDentposted 13 years ago
The First Persecution, Under Nero, A.D. 67

The Second Persecution, Under Domitian, A.D. 81

The Third Persecution, Under Trajan, A.D. 108

The Fourth Persecution, Under Marcus Aurelius Antoninus, A.D. 162

The Fifth Persecution, Commencing with Severus, A.D. 192

The Sixth Persecution, Under Maximus, A.D. 235

The Seventh Persecution, Under Decius, A.D. 249

The Eighth Persecution, Under Valerian, A.D. 257

The Ninth Persecution Under Aurelian, A.D. 274

The Tenth Persecution, Under Diocletian, A.D. 303

Fox's Book of Martyrs
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AEvansposted 13 years ago
Oh geez, ***sigh*** terrorists?
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Is that "I'm cute" for no you don't think christians are terrorists?
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  AEvansposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Do I look like a terrorist? I don't believe Christians were the first terrorists but it is only my opinion. :::::::::::::
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  No in my opinion you don't look like a Terrorist, even though they have used little girls, even cute ones, as bomb carriers, so you could be.
  I agree that Christians weren't the first terrorists, but that technically they are terrorists, or have been.
  the definition of terrorism:
  Terrorism is the systematic use of terror especially as a means of coercion.
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  AEvansposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I see where you are going with this you believe that in the old testament they placed fear into others to change there beliefs? mmmmm.... I wasn't there in those times but I do not believe that any of those people from the old testament were cohersed but that is just my belief, just like you have yours. As for me being a terrorist highly unlikely I can't even kill a spider in our own backyard. lolol
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  luvintkandtjposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  so true
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sneakorocksolidposted 13 years ago
Well here some more crap that deserves sarcasm!
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Is that me you are talking about sneakers?
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  sneakorocksolidposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  No way! I was approached by one of the hubbers about my sarcasm and I just wanted him to see the kind of senseless questions that set me off. Everything you've written is right on target. Sorry for the confusion.
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Just wanted to check I hadn't offended you!
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  sneakorocksolidposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Can't happen!
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  What crap are you referencing?
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  sneakorocksolidposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  If you have to ask me that theres no way we can possibly communicate.
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  OK set and match to the closed minded.
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Jeramiposted 13 years ago
We must remember that our NEW Testament is but 27 letters written by six authors that was chosen out of a possible dozens of writers and hundreds of writings. These were the only ones that could be unanimously agreed upon as being worthy when building the Universal Church. There had to have been many important truths that were not accepted by some of the members that were voting upon their acceptance into the canon.

As Paul Harvey used to say, I want to hear "the rest of the story" And much has been lost through translation and even more through interpretation.

This is all that we have; and I am sure that enough of the truth is still in there. This is why we must not interpret what is left.
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SirDentposted 13 years ago
If I see that someone has a tire almost flat and getting ready to pull out onto a freeway, am I a terrorist for letting them know that they might be killed in a crash if they don't put air in their tire?

I was only kidding above Aquasilver.
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  h.a.borcichposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Just don't bring them dinner if they are hungry Bad joke from my post above. Sorry - I am human.
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  LOL (i am glad your human Holly... )
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  marinealways24posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You are looking at other peoples tires that are low in air while yours is riding on the rim.
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  SirDentposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I expect something like this from you. It is a simple yes/no question, but yet you are still unable to give an answer.
  
  Those who talk constantly are unable to listen. SirDent
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  marinealways24posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You didn't think that was funny? I thought since you like to write in parables and analogies, I would add one as well. Sure, tell them if the tire is low, just don't tell them to fill it up or die and go to hell.
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Good answer SirDent, I gotta get some sleep now, it's 4am where I am! see you later... lets see what reactions are tomorrow.
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Bovine Currencyposted 13 years ago
loL! the first terrorists? Hardly... terrorists yeah but not the first. War and money and all that mumbo jumbo science, buddha, peace, love, flowers, fairies, unicorns, its all magical thinking. Power serves itself, who holds power is only ever for a time.

MOoooOOo
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Make Moneyposted 13 years ago
@ AdsenseStrategies

Okay this is a bit off topic, well a lot off topic but it will just take a sec. AdsenseStrategies have you ever known anyone that got their Google Adsense account reinstated after it's been terminated. Mine was about three years ago. Or does anyone else know?

Signed Mike the Christian terrorist
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  AdsenseStrategiesposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Not sure, but could you not perhaps assume a new identity? (It would depend how much info they needed that had to be correct, I guess...)
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  Make Moneyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Just today I read a blog post about the recent Google slap that said to assume a new identity with Google I'd have to get a new computer, a new IP address and sign up with a friend or relative's name then risk losing all the commissions if it was found out. It also said that it is next to impossible to get an adsense account reinstated. I was just wondering if anyone has heard about anyone doing it. No big deal. I figured I'd ask you with your name and all.
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  Bovine Currencyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Could you not get around this with a company account?
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  Make Moneyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  That might not be a bad idea BC. I see there are a few hubs written about this so I'll have to check them out. Thanks
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Shalini Kagalposted 13 years ago
No!!! That's the real Hal Licino's profile. This one's yours:
http://hubpages.com/profile/HaI Licino
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DogSiDaedposted 13 years ago
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4467CI4 … re=related

An answer to everything
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Crazdwriterposted 13 years ago
yep i'm a terriost...trying to make people f*cking happy and doing what I can to help others, to show them respect when they deserve it, to care and be kind. Yep you hit it there. (yes I am being sarcastic!)
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Thank You for playing, anger management classes are a really good thing.
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  Crazdwriterposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  wow saying I need anger managment when you don't even know me. You are a jerk you know that.
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  again Thank You for playing.
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Crazdwriterposted 13 years ago
1 hub, 4 weeks here, and 11 followers. guess you aren't here to have ppl read only start stuff in the forums and be rude to ppl you don't know. nice...hope you have fun with no one following you.
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AdsenseStrategiesposted 13 years ago
You guys should try and find a way to defuse this -- it is one thing to tug tk's tail (and maybe get nipped for it), but both of you are obviously decent people (despite Mikel's "deliberately provocative" title...). There's no need for heavy-duty stuff when people are raw. TK, and many others have thick skins -- no need to break the skin on this site, right? (just tying to help)
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  TK?
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  AdsenseStrategiesposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Tksensei (who always provokes, whenever possible, at any rate) -- it's just that she has a thread about some family problems right now, so I imagine she's pretty raw..... (you didn't know, of course; but I thought I'd mention it...)
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  h.a.borcichposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I think you may be thinking of crazed, Holly
  PS Crazed is a very kind soul
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  AdsenseStrategiesposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It's my fault - I am being confusing; I was having a bit of a bustup with tksensei on another thread, and popped in here to see the bustup going on here; tksensei is perfectly capable of standing up to bullets -- he likes it in fact, I a m sure of it; but Crazed is a much gentler soul, going through a rough time. I'll try to be clearer in future
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  
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sneakorocksolidposted 13 years ago
Yeah! But they sucked so they were crucified and fed to the lions. The leaders were rounded up at least one was sawed in half and rest were executed as well, except one who was shipped to an island. He was taking acid and had abunch of halucinations we call Revalations all of which are just fantasy. So, all you that hate Chistians you have a great reason to because they're just abunch of followers of felons on death row. Now wasn't that easy?
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  (Q)posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, but the Christians soon had their revenge, a thousand fold or more, evidently.
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  sneakorocksolidposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Are you referring to their first battle with satan's minions(crusades) or just through persuit of religious freedom?
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awareposted 13 years ago
no they arnt
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  What aren't? Oh I understand, nevermind, no they aren't the first terrorists.
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awareposted 13 years ago
uhh the forum question?
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Ok, they aren't the "first" terrorists, what about the rest of the forum question?
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awareposted 13 years ago
there was more?
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awareposted 13 years ago
playing? care to elaborate?
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awareposted 13 years ago
heres the thing christians do not own god nor do they represent god people who dislike their ideas buy into them more than they do therfore they attack what they see as fictional ideas as if they are real
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Mikel G Robertsposted 13 years ago
...*sigh*...
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Having issues are you?
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Just tired of repeating the same old worn out arguments.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I know that.
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  
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Will Apseposted 13 years ago
Mikel you strike me as a man who is pretty honest and wants honest answers to honest questions. As far as I can see the problem for you is a feeling of dread that the idea of Hell inspires. It might be worth asking yourself where those ideas came from and whether the person who passed them on to you really had your interest (or anyone else's true interest at heart). Often we are obliged to work out issues for other people, especially our family members.

If I have completely misunderstood what is going on, forgive me- its late.
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You have, and your forgiven...peace and have great dreams.(I have no dread, I don't fear hell, I'm sure it doesn't even exist. I LOVE honest answers to honest questions, I prefer a hard truth to an easy lie, everytime.)I hope to talk to you again after you have slept...
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restoremyheartposted 13 years ago
Many people call what's good, evil. The majority of the world would like to say Christians are haters. True Christians, will be careful, what they say, what they do, to not offend others.
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  marinealways24posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It doesn't matter if they are what you consider a "true Christian" or not or how careful you think or say they are. Everyone is or has been and continues to be a hypocrite at one time or another. If any were "true Christians", forgiveness probably wouldn't be neccessary from them.
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I agree that what many people have been taught is evil, really isn't evil. I think your using the words "True Christians" to mean "Good People". In using the words True Christians that way your excluding all the "Good People" that are of different faiths(religious organizations).
  Christianity doesn't own goodness, a person can be a Muslim, Jew, or an Atheist, and still be a "Good Person". One of the reasons why "Christians" are disliked, is this belief by them that "True Christians" are the only "Good People". The belief that anyone can become "Good People" if only they would just become "Christian".
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  restoremyheartposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Doesn't matter what religion or if a person is a good person, or not, or a Christian or not. None of us are perfect, even when we try not to make mistakes or offend someone, we sometimes do. I don't see a pope, or a preacher, or anyother human being, to be a Saint. Because we aren't we seem to fall short somewhere! I wasn't trying to say that only what some believe are True Christians, are the only good people. I was saying even people who say they are Christians, sometimes think some things they are doing are for the good, and they are deceived, which anyone of us can or have been their at one time or another. LOL, thanks for commenting Wishing you Blessings!
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I absolutely agree, there are NO perfect people. Lots of people with good intentions make mistakes. Believing that what they are doing is good and helpful when in actuality it is being hurtful, or prideful. I am a good example of all that. I try and do nice things, sometimes my actions aren't successful. I come across as arrogant, or as a know it all. I don't mean to, but it happens. My personality is somewhat of an aquired taste, ... Wishing you and yours, lots of good things... Peace and Love. Mikel
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  AdsenseStrategiesposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Doesn't this stuff give you stomach ulcers? I'm either going to have stop reading these threads, or give up coffee....
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  LOL, No I enjoy it. Sometimes the repetition of the same old arguement again and again gets old, but for the most part it is enjoyable for me. Besides I LOVE coffee!
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shazwellynposted 13 years ago
one mans freedom fighter is another mans terrorist!
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  What is truth to one person may only be partially right to another. It may even be completely wrong to a third. A persons point of view, or perspective is essential in the basis of that person's "reality" (or truth).
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Denno66posted 13 years ago
Wasn't that first used in the um, never mind.....
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sneakorocksolidposted 13 years ago
Thats right we're terrorists! We have San Francisco surrounded and we're headed for castro st.! We have nothing but bad intentions!
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Well at least your honest about it. I wouldn't have actually stated my terrorist attack plan in public however, maybe you were home sick the day they covered that in terrorism 101 class??
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  0
  sneakorocksolidposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Damn! I blew it again!
  reply report
65
awareposted 13 years ago
answer is still no
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1. 61
  chambersgirl21posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  He Never had to endure death, just because he is not here on earth doesn't make him dead
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awareposted 13 years ago
whos this he?
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61
chambersgirl21posted 13 years ago
Anyways have kids to feed.

Was fun.
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A Texanposted 13 years ago
I saw a plane full of Lutherans fly into a Mosque just the other day!
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1. 67
  Mikel G Robertsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You need to read the whole thread before we continue... I'm tired of repeating the whole thing.
  reply report
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  A Texanposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I didn't ask you to repeat anything, I said what I had to say and moved on, I hit it and quit it!
  reply report
  67
  Mikel G Robertsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Thank You for playing.
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  A Texanposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Sawright
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  67
  Mikel G Robertsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  
  reply report
2. 0
  SirDentposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I knew there was something about Lutherans I didn't like.
  reply report
  67
  Mikel G Robertsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yea they must be terrible pilots...lol
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  SirDentposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  They went to the wrong flight school.
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  67
  Mikel G Robertsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  
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lyricsingrayposted 13 years ago
:
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1. 67
  Mikel G Robertsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  thinking?
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Home Girlposted 13 years ago
We live in a cosmic era of science fiction becoming mundane reality and we still looking for labels to each other, WHY? Can we just coexist pecefully without blaming each other and accusing the past, present and future? We all people and want basically the same. Life is too short to waste it trying to find who is better and who is the best? Am I right or am I right?
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42
Cleancloverposted 13 years ago
yes they are
reply report

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Aren't Christians really just the first terrorists?

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Aren't Christians really just the first terrorists?

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