I pray for the well being and safety of myself and family, regardless of their beliefs.
This might come across wrong but my family members that don't believe in God do not need saving.
I do not necessarily believe that just because we acknowledge God/believe in Him, that we are automatically saved either. I do not believe everyone that belongs to a certain religion is automatically saved as well.
I love my fellowman regardless of their beliefs.
I always thought salvation was a personal thing- you go get it yourself, whatever your definition salvation.
Like I said I pray for those I love whether they believe or not (my family has many religious beliefs within), because I love them, I don't pray for them because I think they're all going to hell because I don't!
Not at all, usually it might be ones where you demonstrate hypocrisy. Do you believe that to be all of them?
Well, if you're praying to your god and good things happen to you as a result, in that he's answered your prayers, and others live their short meager lives in abject poverty, don't you think the big guy is just "leaving it to that?"
I hope, eventually, the Christian world will see the dangers involved in using the term "saved". When we, in life, use this term to describe ourselves or others it is assuming the ability to judge on our part. This is dangerous. It encourages pride and prevents one from seeing those things in life that are important.
In the scriptures there are many places that talk of being saved if one enters baptism as well as other things. When these things are read they are to mean that the first ordinances toward salvation are baptism or whatever the context may be. Really - truly, you cannot claim ultimate salvation in this life because you did this or that. Salvation comes through adherence to authorized and faithful priesthood ordinances as well as the thoughts and actions in one's life.
Personally, I never use the word "saved" because ultimately that is God's purvue - not mine. I know it's a life process and not a quick sprinkle of water or blessing of a clergyman.
Twenty One Daysposted 12 years agoin reply to this
we have all been authorized. i disagree that we are not to judge, because we are authorized to judge by righteousness, in fact we are called upon to do so. we do not judge with eyes of human law/sin.
that 'sprinkling' does little but wet the appetite. because one cannot be saved by water baptism, whether by tears or pool of stillness.
but we are to take our gift of salvation and plant the seed of faith and ultimately bear fruit. I find it striking that so many people accept just the opposite. The ole cry/fry turn/burn or wandering sheep theory.
We are meant to be warriors of faith. warriors. not passive-aggressive considerations of that faith. boldly going, tearing down strongholds, shining our light for all to see brightly.
if He himself walked with Adam, not before him, as with Isra`el, not behind him, as to cast a shadow, but the Word walked side by side with him, with the twelve and each of us.
to accept anything less, in all seriousness, is sinful. to assume we are not saved, foolish. to believe we did it by our own efforts, deceptive.
News Flash: Jesus was crucified and resurrected for EVERYONE.
There is no such thing as an "unsaved loved one." Read the Bible and quit spreading non-sensical, blasphemous lies that you were spoon-fed in some man-made church that is more interested in scaring people into giving up their money than actually showing the way to enlightenment.
This kind of exclusive, elitist crap from Christians is exactly why atheists get so fired up.
Cags, we all know you don't believe in Christ. That's fine.
You can't prove to me he wasn't resurrected, and I can't prove to you he was; I'm not interested in doing so--if I was, I would start a thread for it, and be prepared. That's why it's called a belief, not a fact. I'm not trying to convince you. The thread is in the religious forum, about prayer--something that generally believers do. I answered as a believer, to a believer.
First off, - how do you get "Cags, we all know you don't believe in Christ. That's fine." - I am intrigued by this statement, considering YOU don't have a clue about what I believe in or not, unless you're a 'SOCK PUPPET', another user from another account. That would be the only way you would have any kind of understanding about me.
Because, as your account so kindly has said- you haven't been here long to form an informed decision about what I believe.
You have been here less than 3 days? So, you are busted. Come clean? Who are you or were you before hand?
It doesn't take a genius, or an extremely long time, to get a handle on at least the fact that you are not a believer in Christ. You are a common poster in the religious forum, and I know how to read, dude. I also happen to be interested in religion, so some of the time I've spent here in the past three days has been reading a bunch of forum posts.
Actually, you would have to dig a lot deeper than what I have posted recently, to gain a better perspective on what I believe.
For example: there are some posts, when I first began here, were directly attack the bible and it's description of Jesus. Do notice, that I didn't say Jesus Christ.
I'm glad you did a lot of reading, but again you've only seen things of recent. With that said- I reject all religions that have any form of mystical basis for faith requirement. The only place faith is to be place is in yourself or other people.
As for believing in Jesus. I believe he was alive at one point. I also have come to learn he was a teacher and not a minister of religion. I am also of the understanding that Jesus' message that is in the bible is out of context, due to the metaphors used by him to code his teachings, so as not to be discovered. Since he couldn't be trusted and was thought to be teaching something other than religion...he was executed.
It wasn't for the sins of mankind, it was because he refused to promote religious teachings of that time. He was not a religious person - Jesus. He wasn't a prophet, either.
Believe it or not, your posts were some of the ones that stuck out to me most when I first got here (you've got a memorable style), along with those of a few others. You can read backlogs on the forums. I've read more of what you've written than you might think.
But thank you for taking the time to clear it up.
As I'm sure you're aware, believing in the "historical Jesus" is just acknowledging a fact; believing in the "Christ who is Messiah" is a thing of faith, and different. I merely stated that you do not believe in the latter--a thing I think is obvious, and that you have, here, supported. No attack or disrespect meant...just what seems to be an obvious truth.
I am not particularly fond of you forming a judgement on my actions, when you know nothing of them. I reject you acknowledgement that all mankind is sinful. I am honest in thought and honest in action. Therefore, I am not sinful. Sin is a religious perception casted on mankind, from an unauthoritive source, other humans. It's subjective and filled with so much ambiguity, it's not even funny.
That is the lie that furthers the man-made churches that spread hateful, distracting, exclusive lies about God. Get a Concordance, read the Bible, and translate it from its original languages. When you've done that, then you'll know why Christ's sacrifice is for everyone.
Once again, and with more specifics: Get a Concordance, read the Bible--particularly Revelation WITH the Concordance--pay particular attention to the bit about Christ being revealed to all (you can't accept something that hasn't been revealed) the resurrections, the thousand year reign of Christ, and the new heaven and earth. Read the words in Greek, and look up the word "hell" in Hebrew. When you've done those things, you'll get it, or at least you should if you can look at what's actually there and not what you've been fed.
With all due respect, you don't know what you're talking about. And since you're not filled with God's Spirit, I can't expect you to. Only the Holy Spirit can reveal the truth of God's Word. 'But the natural man receiveth not the things of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.'--1Cor.2:14
And you're supposed to be an authority on who's filled with Holy Spirit? Sorry, I missed that memo. Before you run around making silly judgments, take my challenge. Learn a little about the languages that the book of your faith was written in, and read it as it was intended. Afraid to take up the challenge? Afraid it might knock over that spoon-fed faith of yours? Those who are filled with the Holy Spirit wouldn't dare exclude anyone from the sacrifice of Christ, nor would they dare make a determination about where God's Holy Spirit is working.
Since you, I and everyone else have people in our lives, whom we love that are not Christian, there is such a thing as "unsaved loved one."
Furthermore, I read the Bible. That's how I know that although salvation has been provided for everyone, not everyone will repent and receive salvation. Hebrews 10:10 says that by God's will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus once for all. For all. The offering was made for all. But unless a person receives Christ as Savior, the offering remains ineffective as far as that person is concerned. You could put a million dollars in a bank account for one of your children and they would have the right to accept your gift or not. So it is with salvation. It has been provided for all. But all will not accept it. And only those who accept it are saved. John3:17-18--'For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him MIGHT BE SAVED. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.'
To believe in the name of the only begotten is to receive Him as Savior.
And the truth I spread has come from the Holy Spirit revealing it to me through the Word of God.
Atheists get so fired up by this kind of discussion because they are being controlled by another, who hates the Gospel.
and you make us believers FIRED up when u keep referring to it as "spoon" fed... FOR starters MY FRIEND no ONE IN MY FAMILY goes to church except for me.. so where does my belief come from then huh? if I wasnt spoon fed? you just have another lame excuse NOT to believe.. also if it irritates you so much and people who believe irritate u so much THEN WHY THE HECK DO U KEEP JOINING IN SUCH A TOPIC!
Don't pray for them: show them the last half of Matthew Chapter 25 (I know I keep banigng on about this passage, but the beauty of it is that it jibes with logic, common sense, and also morality and compassion... and it is a specific statement by Jesus about salvation -- and it is in the Bible... so if someone believes in the Bible, try refuting it...)
With all due respect, if the things do exist: it doesn't really matter if you believe in them or not-they can influence you. This is not to say that you *should* believe in them...just that if they're actually there, a person's belief or non-belief wouldn't change the fact of their existence.
A person might not believe that they have cancer, but that wouldn't stop it from eating them alive.
If we didn't have the appropriate means to demonstrate it, then no it wouldn't be very simple at all. There was a time when humans were not capable of diagnosing cancer easily. Perhaps we live in a time during which we haven't the materials or knowledge necessary to prove the existence of a spiritual world.
Although...if you've ever seen the movie What the Bleep Do We Know? you *might* begin to think that there is evidence for a dimension of subtle matter that can be affected by thought...There's some pretty crazy stuff going on in science!
Good point. But, I think there's a difference between diagnosing cancer and proving a spiritual world in that the former has hard evidence to distinguish it from the latter, that being the cancer itself. Certainly, we did not know of its existence, and I'm sure some were of the nature to invoke evil spirits as the cause, but the consistent effects of cancer eventually led to its discovery.
So, we look to the consistent effects of a spiritual world and there are none, yet the spiritual world has been invoked into reality just as real as the nose on your face. If such a place in fact existed, it has does nothing to affect us with the same consistent results that cancer does. Yet, many lives are governed by its purported existence, even when no one has seen it or been there.
That's the inherent problem with trying to compare the physical world to the supernatural; hard evidence.
Q: First: Thank you for your consistently respectful questions, answers, and responses. It's thought-provoking and enjoyable to converse with someone who can respect another, even when they don't agree.
I *can* understand where you're coming from, but the possibilities still fascinate me. I have seen pictures made by a certain kind of camera (whose name I cannot remember off the top of my head). These cameras are, apparently, capable of taking pictures of what has been called the "aura," which appears to be subtle matter/electromagnetic energy. It appears from some of these pictures (esp. of plants) that this "aura" grows first, then matter grows to fill the places where the "aura" already exists.
Now, I understand that this isn't some kind of overwhelming "proof" of the existence of a world of spirits...BUT I take it as evidence that there is *a lot* more going on in the realm of energy and subtle matter that our sciences are only *beginning* to grasp.
It's called Kirlian photography which employs the method of recording pressure, electrical grounding, humidity and temperature, amongst other perfectly normal physical phenomenon on a photographic plate. Changes in moisture and barometric pressure will change the so-called "aura."
Are you not convinced just by the facts of life and death?
...Doesn't it make sense that each person has an individual and unique aspect within them--their spirit?
Think about someone..anyone.....they're filled with an untouchable element in them......they're a person that can speak and hear and think and feel. Yet they'll die eventually. And from seeing people die, we know that they're no longer "there" in that dead body. Where do "they" go then? Where's that essence that makes them the unique individual they were?
Repeating my question back to me, isn't likely to get you a nice response. Do you know? Yes or No?
@Earnest, if you're not going to add to this, then please stop. And, Yes, Jesus' work was not religious, nor was it even part of religion. His work was incorporated into religion, so as to fool others. Religion, in and of, itself, was around long before Jesus walked the Earth. It was only after he was executed, was his work added to religion.
My name backwards is sinned, is that a sign? If so, and I am (for whatever reason) condemned it truly makes no sense to abide by any rules of self control or restraint. So many who try to force others to 'drink of the fountain' completely forget the instance of the child who seeks any attention rather than no attention. How much hate, avarice, self loathing, moral deceit, crime, and perversion is actually born from a set code of 'spirtuality' which insists it is the only way, truth, and light. Keep religion, & spirituality for that matter, where it belongs: in one's own head. It should be a personal experience, perspective - not a panacea forced down others' throats. Philosophy, on the other hand, is a very different subject (or can be), enabling worthwhile discussions.
I will never know which ones in my family are "unsaved" or "saved" Only God knows their hearts. For me to judge them is "outside my scope of practice" I do however pray that they are on that path of righteousness and I pray that they do the will of God, all the time.
Glad you don't judge. It's funny how many religious people give off a vibe of being judgemental despite a specific reference about judging that the Gospels record (we'll assume accurately) Jesus having said.
As to who is on the path of righteousness, how about "Ye shall know them by their fruits". If they act like jerks, ther's your answer. If they are decent, pleasant, and upstanding, again, there's your answer.
If people don't want to 'feel' as if "religion and spirituality" are being forced down their throats, they probably shouldn't enter into a thread posted in the Religion&Beliefs>Christianity>Prayer forum, where religion and spirituality are being discussed.
I apologize, although the name of the forum did beg for a response from one who seeks to rectify some grave errors on the part of the christianity 'club'. Errors which have resulted in loss of life and severe misrepresentations.
TIP:...I PRAY FOR THE UNSAVED...NOT BECAUSE I CARE TOO MUCH FOR THEIR ARROGANT CURSING OF GOD...BUT GOD IS MAKING ME FILTHY RICH ON THEIR ACCOUNT...PLUS GOD HAS PROMISED IN HIS WORD THAT THOSE PEOPLE WILL BE UNDER YOUR RULE IN HEAVEN...STUDY THE BIBLE...GOD ALSO HAS EVERLASTING "GET RICH QUICK SCHEMES.."...AND BEST OF ALL...GOD HAS PROMISED THAT THEY WILL BOW DOWN AND WORSHIP HIM IN THE END...OH GOSH..I JUST LOVE GOD TO DEATH..HE IS SO GREAT FOR THOSE WHO CARE TO KNOW HIM...
Twenty One Daysposted 12 years agoin reply to this
sorry, Brenda, cannot agree on that. Faith is the SUBSTANCE of things hoped for, not the other way around. All are saved, by that One and ONLY sacrifice, which is from the foundation of the world, the Word.
so it is only needed: knowledge of the Truth. only brought: by the Spirit.
Twenty One Daysposted 12 years agoin reply to this
you are reading it incorectly. all have sinned, yes -hence why we needed a Savior. if we do sin, that is already forgiven us for we are washed in the blood of the lamb. to ask forgiveness from one another is only to bring those things to light, so we can strengthen each other against such things. We are no longer judged by sin/law but by the righteousness which is by faith. for He made peace with the Father on our behalf. Can we then crucify him again, to forgive us again. See the difference? But if the fullness of the Spirit dwells in you, there is no condemnation for those who are in Y`shua Moshiach, who walk in spirit and are led by Spirit into all truth.
true, many have been convinced that they must first be found sinful, then convicted of that sin and the punishment of it inflicted upon them. But this is law, this is knowledge of sin, sin conscious. Are we still to be sinful, no. We are to be righteous as He is righteous and sees us as righteous.
So long as we cling to the law and any of its parts, we will never be free...
I understand that. But again, it leaves out the feeling. It's legalistic.
God is Spirit, but He feels. He's emotional. He Loves. He's Jealous. He hurts when people deny Him. Where there is no sorrow for our sins (and all of us sin at one time or other), there is no openness to the Spirit.
You're right that we shouldn't be enslaved by that feeling. But don't you agree that that feeling IS required in order to be born again? Condemnation is the same as conviction, until one is born again. Condemnation is required BEFORE one can be born again.
Twenty One Daysposted 12 years agoin reply to this
No, i do not. Salvation does not come by feeling, but by faith. The work of faith may have feelings in it, but is not the root of it.
those outside are already condemned to death because they have not believed. It is not He that condemns them, but their own heart. but if they come to Him because of emotion only, then that is not acceptance of salvation by full assurance of faith.
as He said, your Faith has saved you, go in peace.
it was not in fear or tears that many were saved, but by the greatness of faith in their sight, that they saw and believed on Him.
This is my own truth. I did not believe because of a tragedy that brought me to the place of faith. I chose very early to believe by faith and have never stopped. And, I am sad to say, have seen many an alter call, soft music, dim light rooms where tears flow freely. And almost none of them walk in Spirit and truth. They walk in baby diapers, speaking in baby language, drinking baby milk year after year...
It is time for believers to grow and eat solid food. abandoning the things of their youth -the fear, the doubt, the games- and walk in the fullness of faith.
People who supposedly have Biblical knowledge (and Spiritual knowledge) who don't want to use the word "saved", when in fact it's in the Bible time after time, with many of those times referring to Spiritual salvation....!
What's the world coming to?? Ah, but I know. It's coming to naught, but remaining "the world"....
It is interesting, isn't it, Brenda? That, the believers here are upset at our pointing out the hypocrisy and contradictions of your scriptures and beliefs while you do exactly the same thing amongst yourselves.
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