What Confuses You About the Bible?

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LeslieAdrienneposted 14 years ago
Greetings, I am taking a survey and want to know what confuses people about the Bible....care to answer?
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Having read it cover to cover twice and studied it in 3 languages nothing confuses me about the bible.
  It is a hateful tome filled with childish and even psychotic threats from a god who is a compilation of the many gods that went before it. Dangerous to small minds, creates war and hate of minorities like homosexuals and the hate of women.
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  poetlorraineposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  i feel so sorry for you ....... you are really sad
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Those of us who are happy usually recognise the fear behind religious thought, and feel that you are a bit sad.
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  LIVINGGODposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  religion on latin relegare that shows a clearer reason of this as binding, the word has been changed to hide the real meaning tie encarcerate hold down submition
  
  the lord doesnt bind or clenches down any human into a blind faith
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  LeslieAdrienneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Poetlorraine
  Thank you for your comment.
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  LeslieAdrienneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Earnest
  
  Thank you for your comment.
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  LIVINGGODposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  actually the ```strength of the law´´was showmn on the old testament to prove that the law doesnt give a chance to 120%of the humanity but this complitely changes with the ``son of man´´ christ who changes the law to a powerfull grace giving an open door to most of the gentiles and jews
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  agvulpesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Taking it as a work of fiction I found it very boring so I stopped reading after page 2, I think it was !
  I prefer to make my own judgments on whether something is good or bad, for the very reason that what is right today was wrong one hundred years ago, and visa-versa.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  agvulpes, your up late!
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  agvulpesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I felt like seeing the "late night comedy show" but I'm fearing it is ground hog day and its just a repeat.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Good luck with that mate! I could not bare to see that again either!
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  LeslieAdrienneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  agvulpes,
  Thank you for your comment.
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  LIVINGGODposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  the bible only show christ as the bearer of all that gods wants us too see and some prophecies to the world and to the jews
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  double_frickposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  how it is considered a historical document and not myths and stories similar to like, the epic of gilgamesh.
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  LeslieAdrienneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The events are historically proven....I know a lot of people will disagree, but it is so.....Jewish History will attest to the events in the Old Testament
  And Roman and Greek historians attest to the events in the New Testament.
  
  Most of the supernatural signs that occurred left an indication of some kind.
  
  Thanks for your comment...
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Was "kink" a freudian slip? The sub-conscious that gave you religion does know it is a crutch you know!
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  LeslieAdrienneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks for pointing out my typo....
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  Valerie Fposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Religion may be a crutch, but an honest and modest person is not afraid to admit to needing one. And it's a far better crutch than anything else I've come across that people use.
  
  As for what confuses me about the Bible- nothing much really. I read it as an anthology of multiple literary genres. In interpreting it as such and taking into account historic contexts, I feel I'm getting something close to the correct interpretation. If you take it all as a historic record, you're not going to get it right, and you may completely miss the point. If you take it all as mythology and assume erroneously and arrogantly that there is no truth in mythology, you'll get it wrong, too. If you assume it's all fables and morality tales, you'll only be partially correct. If you assume it's all metaphorical, you won't get it all right.
  
  The truth is the Bible has all of the aforementioned.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Nothing confusing about it whatsoever. Spent years at church school studying the bible in it's various forms (and there are many, many forms). Knowing the myths it was based on and having spent some considerable time delving into the so-called "history," of Jesus, I understand the bible very well.
  
  It is written by man, there is no god, and if I could encapsulate the bible in two words it would be, "tribal thinking."
  
  People who mistakenly think there is a god with a set of instructions are either acting in their own interests or sheeple, scared of living.
  
  There are a lot of sheeple.
  
  Baaaaah!
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  LeslieAdrienneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hi Mark.....
  
  Thanks for your comment.....
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  LIVINGGODposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  living is only one thing but what about living with a power beyond human understanding???????
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  ASHWINSPGAposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Once Adam and Eve were banished
  (quote)
  And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.
  And she again bare his brother Abel.
  Then jump a few paragraphs Cain suddenly has a wife. Where did she come from?
  
  According to the bible Jesus Christ knew why he was on Earth for. When then on the cross did he shouted 'GOD GOD why have you forsaken me?
  
  Would really appreciate it if you could enlighten me thanks
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  LeslieAdrienneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I have speculated on the Cain's wife issue, but I blindly believe that...Listen, Jesus came to pay the price for sin...but first hehad to become "sin". On the cross, He took every kind of sin that there was, and the ultimate sin is separation from God.
  
  (That is why people go to Hell,they are separated from God-that is what happened to Adam in the garden. He got separated from God.)
  
  Jesus couldn't have paid the full price for Adam's sin without experiencing spiritual separation from God. Are you following me so far?.....Good, let's keep on going....
  
  At the time that Jesus cried, My God, My God, why has thou forsaken me?" He [Jesus] was experiencing that separation.
  
  Well, separation from God is equal to death because God is life. That is why we must be born again, so we can reconnect to God.
  
  Does this help any?
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  ASHWINSPGAposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks for that. and yes it seems logical and makes sense. thank you LeslieAdrienne
  
  You said "i have speculated on the Cain's wife issue, but I blindly believe that...
  
  Believe what?
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  LeslieAdrienneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  ashwinspga
  
  what the Bible says about Cain finding a wife....God can do anything...I don't know where Cain's wife came from.....but, I also don't think that it is a point of great importance either.......
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  ASHWINSPGAposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It is LeslieAdrienne. It is important. For a book as important as a bible there should not be any gaps. If the book writes about how God created the world then the creation of Cain's wife should be in there too. Im surprised with your dismissive answer. Thank you for taking the time to answer my questions
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  Deborah Sextonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Because Adam and Eve stands for the first people male and female not two people period! Many people came into being.
  The gap is mistransliteration and translation.
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  LeslieAdrienneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Oh no, I apologize... sometimes after posting to my cynical friends, my attitude has to readjust to talk to people who really want find the truth....Please forgive my quick retort
  
  My answer to you about Cain just means that I have not found a definitive answer to that question. The point of my stating that it in not a point of great importance is that there is a lot of information and human history in the Word of God....often, we get "stuck" or interested in one issue or another and it becomes a project to search out for our satisfaction. New believers or people who are considering becoming Christians tend to neglect the weightier matters of the scripture and concentrate on those things that don't impact their souls....
  
  When I got born-again, I was very religious and determine that I was going to keep all of the Old Testament instructions.....well, I didn't know that Jesus had fulfilled all of the Old Testament requirements and what I needed to do was concentrate on Jesus and what He was saying...
  
  Cain was a demonstration of excessive pride, disobedience, jealousy and hatred.....He was a one time example of that particular type.....The probability in my thinking is that Adam and Eve had many, many children. The reason Cain and Able were mentioned is because there deeds were extraordinary.....Abel was complete obedience, Cain was not....Able gave God his best, Cain did not....
  
  Cain could have gotten out of it if he had told the truth....God would have had him make a sacrifice and forgiven him.
  Cain chose to be lie and add onto his troubles.
  
  Of the many children that Adam and Eve had, I believe was Cain's wife. I rationalize within the parameters of my understanding.....during that time the mandate or command against brothers and sisters marrying had not been given.
  
  I speculate that disease was not what it is now, and that God had a hand in keeping those marriages until such time as there were enough people on the earth to declare inner-marriage an abomination.
  
  That is what I believe, but it is mainly speculation.
  
  The most important thing is to come to Jesus just as we are....to understand that when Adam sinned, all mankind that would ever be born into the earth also sinned.....Adam's sin is the root sin or the original sin.....Jesus Christ is the only one whe can deliver us from the sinful nature.....
  
  Jesus came to earth through a virgin. He lived on earth as 100% man and 100% God....He was without sin. He preached and did might works and led people to His Father.....Jesus died taking away the power of that original sin and He rose from the dead setting all men free....that is, if you believe that He did it for you, and, if you receive Him as your personal Lord and Savior.
  
  Salvation is free!!!! If you don't have it and you want it just pray this prayer outloud.....
  
  Dear God,
  I come to you recognizing that I am a sinner in need of salvation. I beleive that Jesus is the son of God, that He died for me and that He rose from the dead. Jesus, come into my heart, be my Lord and Savior. I receive you now and am now saved. Thank you Father, in Jesus' Name, Amen.
  
  It really is that easy.....Read the Bible daily. If you can't understand the King James, get another version and start reading in John, spend more time in the New Testament then go to the Old Testament....
  
  If you need more help, send me an email
  
  Be blessed.......
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Dear me. And you think you have an answer?
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  LeslieAdrienneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Come on Mark....I admit I'm not certain about Cain, but I am about Jesus....
  
  Did you study the Word on your own, in school or at church?
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  All 3. It is not the Word with a capital "W". You are not sure about jesus - you are parroting the same tired nonsense and convincing no one of anything other than the fact that your religion is worthless. What you are saying does not even make sense unless you MUST have an answer. An easy one at that. Sorry.
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  LeslieAdrienneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It is the Word with a capital "W", I am sure about Jesus and I am convincing others who are searching that Jesus is the answer.
  
  You are just angry because you gave up on God...God never gave up on you....as learned as you are, you know that the warfare is in the mind, you know that the things of God are spiritually discerned and that they are foolishness to the natural man
  
  You also know that if you open your spirit, the love of God will overwhelm you and heal you and finally deliver you, because you KNOW that Jesus is Lord and that He loves you.......
  
  and you should know that you and your family are on my pray list and in the prayer basket at my church.....I told you I loved you.....
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Ah - Yes - I see the sort of love you show me. Christian love that means you dismiss me and any inquiries I may have made completely. Despite the fact that you do not even understand your own religion and have to admit so.
  
  A genuine christian right there.
  
  I pity you and hope that one day you will educate yourself instead of swallowing the easy story that causes so many fights.
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  ASHWINSPGAposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you For replying back LeslieAdrienne. After reading i guess it all comes down to "assumings" to fill in the gaps. All this happened a long time ago and there bound to be some gaps here and there.Thats where i think the strength in your faith comes in and I do indeed admire your faith believe and love you have for your religion
  signing out from here. thanks once again
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
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  LIVINGGODposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  this was done by the master to take away what should happen to us ,actually some people take again that burden and try to hold it for themselves but jesuschrist momentaniously got separated by the power of sin from god HIS FATHER
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  Dale Nelsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Not a bad question for a survey.
  Assuming that it is a book transcribed and translated so many times before the current versions were accepted into society, where did Jesus spend the first 37 years of his life before his life begins to be chronicled. Sure he was born in a manger. Then what. Then reappearing with the apostles. Long time for no one to have written anything about his travels.
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  LeslieAdrienneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hi Dale...
  
  He spent His first 30 like all other children of His day...growing and studying, learning and working in his earthly fathers' trade
  
  We read about His birth, when He was 12 and then about His ministry years from age 30-33.
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  de'Arabposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The basics are confusing to me; why did God give his only begotten son to die for humanity's sins? Why does God even have a son in the first place? How could anyone bear the burden of another?
  I don't think that it is that my mind is to small to understand the book, I think that my mind is too large to understand the book . It just does not make sense.
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  Valerie Fposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Bearing the burden for another is as simple as bailing someone out of jail, vouching for them before judge and jury, and paying their fines for them.
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  vox vocisposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Abraham and Sara were half-brother and half-sister...poor slave who had to give birth of a child for her ''mistress'' ???...because God wanted it so???? Daughters who slept with their father to continue the family line...do I need to continue? Hmmm
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  sneakorocksolidposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Whats your point?
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  vox vocisposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  My point, if it's me who you're asking, is that the Bible is full of confusing stories and thoughts, yet, I'm aware who wrote it and I simply try to get the best out of it. In the end, I read the Bible gladly...many times I'm shocked and many times I'm appeased by it.
  Too complicated to get any deeper into discussion on a forum like this;
  it is as it is,
  once we die,
  we'll know everything,
  and life is short,
  so no big fuss about it...
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  Deborah Sextonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hey this isn't true. When Abraham and Sarah arrived in Egypt Abraham was afraid that if he told Pharaoh and the princes that Sarah was his wife, because she was so beautiful, they would kill him and take her. So Abraham asked Sarah to SAY she was his sister so he could live.Genesis 12:13. But the first time Sarah was introduced in Scripture it was in Genesis 11:31 and it clearly states that Sarah was the wife of Abraham and the daughter-in-law of Abraham's father Terah. Sarah was not a slave either. All relatives lived in a tribe and everyone called the women sisters and the head of the tribe father.
  
  Did you actually research this or just take someone's misinformation and state it as truth?
  
  Genesis 11:13 "And Terah took Abram his son, and Lot the son of Haran his son's son, and Sarai his daughter in law, his son Abram's wife; and they went forth with them from Ur of the Chaldees, to go into the land of Canaan; and they came unto Haran, and dwelt there."
  
  Genesis 12:12-13
  12: "Therefore it shall come to pass, when the Egyptians shall see thee, that they shall say, This is his wife: and they will kill me, but they will save thee alive.
  13: "Say, I pray thee, thou art my sister: that it may be well with me for thy sake; and my soul shall live because of thee."
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  Pandoras Boxposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Thou shalt not lie (unless a god tells you to). Ever heard of Hagar?
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  vox vocisposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well, dear DEBORAH SEXTON,
  before mocking someone YOU NEED TO KNOW what you're saying. If you read the Catholic Bible check out Genesis, chapter 20, especially lines 11 and 12 where it says, I quote:
  
  {20:11} Abraham responded: ''I thought to myself, saying: Perhaps there is no fear of God in this place. And they will put me to death because of my wife.
  {20:12} Yet, in another way, she is also truly my sister, the daughter of my father, and not the daughter of my mother, and I took her as a wife.
  
  Then, Hagara (Agar) was Sarah's slave who gave birth of Abraham's first child, I qoute:
  
  GEN 16:1 Now Sarai the wife of Abram, had brought forth no children; having a handmaid, an Egyptian, named Agar,
  
  GEN 16:2 She said to her husband: Behold, the Lord hath restrained me from bearing: go in unto my handmaid, it may be I may have children of her at least. And when he agreed to her request,
  
  GEN 16:3 She took Agar the Egyptian her handmaid, ten years after they first dwelt in the land of Chanaan, and gave her to her husband to wife.
  
  GEN 16:4 And he went in to her. But she, perceiving that she was with child, despised her mistress.
  
  And more...Genesis, chapter 19, I qoute:
  
  33 That night they made their father drunk, and the elder slept with her father though he was unaware of her coming to bed or of her leaving.
  34 The next day the elder said to the younger, 'Last night, I was the one who slept with our father. Let us make him drunk again tonight, and you go and sleep with him. In this way we can preserve the race by our father.'
  35 They made their father drunk that night too, and the younger went and slept with him, though he was unaware of her coming to bed or of her leaving.
  36 Both Lot's daughters thus became pregnant by their father.
  
  Another thing - Genesis chapter 11, I quote:
  
  27 These are Terah's descendants: Terah fathered Abram, Nahor and Haran. Haran fathered Lot.
  28 Haran died in the presence of his father Terah in his native land, Ur of the Chaldaeans.
  29 Abram and Nahor both married: Abram's wife was called Sarai, Nahor's wife was called Milcah daughter of Haran, father of Milcah and Iscah.
  
  Do your calculation and calculation itself means something confusing in the Bible.
  
  I've read the Bible hundreds of times (in different languages too) and have no misinformation, YOU DO!!! Or, maybe you're not Catholic so we aren't reading the same Bible!
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  vox vocisposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  To DEBORAH SEXTON:
  Read about Sara in wikipedia:
  
  Sarah or Sara (which is a Hebrew name) was the wife of Abraham and the mother of Isaac as described in the Hebrew Bible and the Quran. Her name was originally Sarai.
  
  Sarah was the half-sister of Abraham, being the daughter of his father Terah (Genesis 20:12). The Talmud identifies Sarai with Iscah, daughter of Abraham's deceased brother Haran (Genesis 11:29), so that Sarah turns to be the niece of Abraham and the sister of Lot and Milka. (according to rabbinic literature).
  
  Do you even know who wrote the Bible? Hebrew means anything to you? I have nothing against Hebrews, Jesus was one and he loved them, so I guess I do too, although they don't like Him much...
  
  I really don't like when someone is mocking me and accusing me of things he or she is to blame for! So many studies on this specific question and the comment you gave is simply...well, don't know what to say anymore! I think I made myself clear.
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  Hokeyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
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  Pandoras Boxposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You, Wikipedia and the Bible must all be wrong. Deborah has attained a level of mystic knowledge such as our small minds can never comprehend.
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  vox vocisposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah...no doubt!
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  goldenpathposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Not really confusing but I see a great danger in what's being done to the Bible today. The inspired words are specifically written often under direction from the spirit. Taking the Bible and rewording it to fit the "modern" language is dangerous and misconstrues the original messages contained.
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  Rayalternatelyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  why it's so popular
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11. 0
  Brenda Durhamposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Nothing confused me about the Bible until I heard people making it complicated when in actuality it's simple.
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  SirDentposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I must say that nothing in the Bible confuses me. If I am confused it is because of my own mind.
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  kitoomalposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hi LeslieAdrienne,
  
  I do not find any contradiction in the Bible. If you feel there's something contradictory, it can be described like this:
  
  If you say the sky is dark and I say it's bright, it's not a contradiction. The sky is the same - just that you are in another time zone, 12 hours away!
  
  Therefore, I'm not confused. In fact, statistical models show that the likelihood of some 15 of the 332 prophecies about Jesus in the Bible being false, is only 1 chance in 480 billion x 1 trillion! The Bible is definitely the authoritative Word of God.
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  G Miahposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Who is God? God himself or Jesus? Why did God (Jesus) fear death?
  
  Why was the last part (the part where originally had a bit about Jesus saying there will be the last prophet after him called 'Muhammad') wiped away?
  
  Why is there so many different versions of the Bible? New testaments are written by whom?
  
  Very very confusing!
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  defenestratethisposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well, for one thing, when Cain was banished to another land and then later took a wife and had some kids...just who was that woman he married and where did she come from? Seeing as how it was Adam, Eve, Abel and Cain to first grace the earth...was it his sister?
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  Hokeyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  um.... the bible
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poetlorraineposted 14 years ago
why does everyone have one, why is there one in every hotel room, why has it lasted so long?
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1. 59
  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Not every one has one. A free bible in every hotel room is called "advertising," and it has lasted so long because of all the wars with people who did not believe. If you kill them all and force the survivors to bow down to your god.....
  
  The Australians used to take aboriginal children away from their parents and bring them up in "christian" family homes instead. As did families in the US with native Americans.
  
  Keeping yourself ignorant of these things will not make baby jesus real.
  
  I pity you. You could - if you wished - educate yourself. Instead you prefer to pretend baby jesus will let you into heaven.
  
  Christianity is the most selfish religion that has ever existed. It is disgusting and the people who follow it should be ashamed of themselves for perpetuating this way of behaving.
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  agvulpesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Mark , pity is such a strange emotion in this instance ?
  If she is wrong and you are right, in the long run nothing will happen to anyone right , so pity is hardly required ?
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Just reflecting. And yes - I do pity people who have been persuaded not to think. As a species - I think it holds us back from our potential.
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  agvulpesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Your are probably correct ! but to me pity is such a waste of energy . I prefer to expend my energy on matters that I have a least some control over. Not trying to un-train people that have been brain-washed from birth.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I am not really speaking to them. This is an open forum and a lot of non members stop buy and take a look. I am speaking to them I guess. I know there is no way in hell of convincing some of these guys - but the young ones starting to question? Possibly.
  
  I guess I feel it is worth some of my energy and I do not lie awake at night fretting over the older ones who KNOW.
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  LeslieAdrienneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Gotta love you Mark....you can't get the young ones either....not as long as we old ones are watching.....
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry - you are wrong again. I have many who have written to me thanking me for helping them get over your religion. Child abusers forcing children to believe this garbage? Should be locked up.
  
  People are moving away from your hate mongering religion in droves. Hence the desperation I see from people like you.
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  LeslieAdrienneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Mark,
  
  You know you sound like the DVD's on the Tibulation and Revelations..."Lock up the Haters - Off with their Heads!" Are you sure you aren't operating in prophecy.....
  
  Oh, I hate to tell you this, those droves left on bicycles but they are coming back by the chevy load [now you know that's funny, right?]
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  LOLOLOLO
  
  Sure Denial is a wonderful thing. They are still leaving in droves. Not sure what planet you are on, but the latest statistics prove it. Oh - that is right - you don't go in for statistics and facts.
  
  How very christian of you.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Leslie, I have 6 beautiful grandchildren, not one indoctrinated into religion, and people like you my family and I keep away from!
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  LeslieAdrienneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Congratulations! Earnest What a blessing to have so many loving grands.......nothing like family.
  
  You can't keep them from hearing the Word from somebody at sometime in their life. Then they can make their own decisions.....
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yes I do realise that, but in my country teaching children doctine at an early age is mostly not allowed. None of the schools including our best (we have great schools) allow it.
  You could not sell this to Asha, one of the twin girls. she asks adults very awkward questions and seems to be able to think very well. All my children and family enjoy a life without religion, despite my having become a christian many years ago. As for my beautiful eldest GC well she will have none of it apparently. We never mention what our children should believe, we just do not indoctrinate them. The tooth fairy has already been exposed by Lauren, the other 4 year old twin of Asha!
  I am their grandfather, so I just do what they tell me to do and enjoy them!
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  defenestratethisposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  And another thing...why do they villainize Judas sooooooo much? After all, he was only doing his part to aid Christ in his sacrifice. A sacrifice that would save the world from sin. Isnt Judas really sort of a hero in that respect?
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  defenestratethisposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Also...if homosexuality is such a terrible sin, how come theres nothing about it in the 10 commandments?
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Not part of the marketing package anymore. Slowed sales.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That is the truth plain and simple. You would think any sane person would recognise these facts. Isolationist, bigoted and hate filled it continues to persecute minorities and anyone who can be bullied.
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  LeslieAdrienneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Earnest,
  
  Enlighten me, why am I full of hate? I might be full of a bunch of other stuff, but hate.....hmmmm. I hate mayonnaise and tuna....is that what you mean?
  
  Oh and,I am a triple minority.....I don't remember the last time I persecuted myself .....
  
  Oh, yes I do....It was the time I neglected to finish an online class....I had to retake it and pay for it out of my own pocket....
  
  I persecuted myself the entire time I was taking that class....$800...that's a lot of money for a 4 week class.....
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Refresh my memory... how far back in the thread did you go?
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  LeslieAdrienneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Mark my scholar.....
  
  You know yourself that there is not one religion that has not committed atroscities in the name of God.....people did it, not God......
  
  Maybe that is why you don't believe.........
  
  How's your family?
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No. I don't believe because it is a lie. And you making excuses is not helping. The fact that you are prepared to ignore it just means you are scared. You are not going to live forever. Sorry. I wonder if you have even read your bible? Mine tells me quite clearly what to do with unbelievers and homosexuals. Doesn't yours? What are you reading? Some watered down KJ that was mis-translated yesterday?
  
  My family is fine, thanks for asking.
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  LeslieAdrienneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Glad they're fine....
  
  Actually, I have some stellar bibles and study materials, but you already know that I spend a lot of time in prayer looking for the Holy Spirit to help me.....
  
  Although the Word says what to do to unbelievers, and homosexuals, it doesn't tell me to carry out any judgments.....and, please don't quote me the Old Testament mandates.....Jesus gave me a new covenant with better promises...
  
  Also, if Jesus refuted what the law (O.T.) said about marriage, and loving your neighbor, why wouldn't I conclude that other OT scriptures are also out ranked and now governed by the law of love?
  
  The O.T. is valuable and profitable for instruction, but, I am not going to sacrifice a bull, a sheep or a dove....I don't have the room and I am cutting back on red meat
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  Deborah Sextonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Really? Christ said he did not come to do away with the law (word of God). He just made it clearer. Where do you get the OT is out of date?
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  LeslieAdrienneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Deborah...
  
  Don't misunderstand....perhaps I wasn't clear....the OT stands as the shadow, the forerunner of the NT. It contains the mind of God for His people which cannot be erased....What I mean is that Jesus is the fullfillment of the OT requirements toward the Father....and, that we are to follow the law of love as outlined in the NT....
  
  Also, we are not making animal sacrifices or giving blood offerings or following the rituals of the OT anymore because Jesus is the sacrificial lamb and His blood has sealed the covenant....
  
  I don't want anyone to think that the OT is to be ignored....my point to Mark and to ASHWINSPGA is don't be bound by the old when salvation is in the new....If you are born again. You are not under the curses of the law......
  
  Was that explained better.....?
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  Precious Pearlposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  LeslieAdrienne ... you are one of the most well spoken women of God on hubpages. I love the way you gently but firmly express your faith. Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us. I just became a fan.
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  NewYorkerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Mark, I wanna ask you to watch what you say there a little bit about Christianity. Alot of people might take this as an insult
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Nah!
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Really? LOL
  
  Guess what...........
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  LeslieAdrienneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Newyorker
  
  Mark likes to insult Christianity and Christians, that is what he does....don't let him ruffle you feathers......
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I think I know how Mark feels about the beliefs of religions, he knows quite a lot about it, and science as well. One of our smartest hubbers I would say. Yes Mark does speak quite directly about what he believes. I like that.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Not everyone who believes in God and Christ is a part of Christianity..I don't interpret scripture the same as the Christian religion does.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  GOD aside..I pity you because you are a sour person who appears to hate anyone who doesn't agree with you. Religion or not.
  You look for a fight in everything because life is boring for you. Without hate and conflict do you have any sensation?
  
  This is YOUR wish to form a following of you..a cult so to speak.
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  Valerie Fposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No, Mark, the worship of self is the most selfish religion there is.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No sweetie. I do not worship myself as you are suggesting I do. This is called "lying."
  
  I know your religion favors lying as a tool to disseminate hatred against other groups - in this case atheists, but still......
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  LIVINGGODposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  CHRISTIANITY IS SUFFERING TO BRING THE SAME PROOF OF THE POWER OF GOD TO MOST PEOPLE AND LENGUAGES WHY IS THAT SELFISH??
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  NewYorkerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Did you really have to write that with Caps Lock?
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
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  Valerie Fposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, and it's a horrific shame that Christians have done that to indigenous families. What's even worse, Mark, is that you don't understand you advocate using the same cultural genocide tactic against Christian families.
  
  So it's cultural genocide if one group does it, but it's fine and dandy if you happen to not like the group you want wiped out?
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I did not suggest taking children away from their families and forcing them to adhere to the invisible super being theory.
  
  I know that lying is part of your "culture," but please.....
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  Pandoras Boxposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well, I don't think he meant it literally. I believe his point was merely that indoctrinating children with scary stories of a vengeful sky-monster is a form of mental abuse
  
  Cultures evolve. Old beliefs and superstitions are let go of once the nature of their invalidity is understood. Holding on to old beliefs that have become more deleterious than beneficial for society weakens the society, at best.
  
  But you're right, of course, the evolving has to be done willingly.
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  sneakorocksolidposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You do realize people came to America to escape religious persicution. Not to mention that every document penned by our forefathers clearly states our faith in God. Maybe if you can't get past your pride to believe this isn't the right country for you.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  BELEEB IN JEEBUS an u b sabed. !
  
  Sorry - No more killing in the name of jeebus.
  
  Must get u huh? Be the rong cuntry fer u? YUeah I beleeb .
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  sneakorocksolidposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Oh I see one of the atheists heavy hitters is promoting tolerance again, thank you for sharing! Now take your seat.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Oh Sorry - I will try and hate gays and anythinh wot god hates.
  
  Fat is OK tho? Right?
  
  Just chekin. Overweight is OK with jeebus. Like wot He sed.
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  sneakorocksolidposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No one hates gays we hate their sin. If you're refering to me, thank you, thats the nicest thing you've ever said to me.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yay Sin LOL U R Right. U speek 4 god.
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  sneakorocksolidposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  So you admit he exists! Praise the Lord! May you be showered with blessings!
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  Pandoras Boxposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You do realize that I'm not that gullible. We can have that debate if you like.
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  sneakorocksolidposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Religion or your gullibility?
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  Pandoras Boxposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Christian nation bullcrap. Bring it on. This was the first issue that gave me my clue that christians were basically fabricators, revisionists, and outright liars. Of course, maybe you're just among the religiously gullible. Christians seldom stop to check the drivel that's spoonfed to them.
  
  Generally speaking, I strive to be more patient with christians and their misguided misconceptions, but when you've just suggested that nonbelievers don't belong in America, you've pretty much pissed me off.
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  sneakorocksolidposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Your point of view is very common, so lets get started what have we fabricated, revised or lied about?(name couple of things but don't stress if it's necessary I'll take your word for it) Actually we study what we believe and for your information our church has no paid clergy so it's a group effort not a bunch of sheep listening to someone tell us what to believe. It's ok if you want to believe what you want you and everyone else was given free agency. Just one more point to clarify, I said it may not be the right country for you based on your intolerance.
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  sneakorocksolidposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Still waiting.
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  Pandoras Boxposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Okay there's number one, and it qualifies as all three. There was no intolerance on my part as anyone reading the above exchange can clearly see. I said evolution of this sort has to be done willingly, and you said that since I was too prideful to believe in your version of truth that this country might not be where I belong. So who was being intolerant? And is your accusation that I was being intolerant (and too prideful to believe) an example of a fabrication, a revision of reality, an outright lie, or just a misconception of your biased judgment caused by your worn out beliefs?
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  sneakorocksolidposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I didn't know our nation was founded by atheists! Chistian nation bullcrap, I guess thats tolerant. Love, morality, integrity, charity, service and fellowship are just worn out beliefs. Be honest you want to do what you want to do with out having to fight your own concious or have to answer to a higher power and humble yourself. Thats where the pride comes into it. And I know you know this country was founded on religious freedom. It's time to come correct and accept Gods love for you and strive to live a righteous life.
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  Pandoras Boxposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You're still attempting to fabricate and revise reality. Nobody said the nation was founded by atheists and you know it.
  
  My use of the term christian nation bullcrap is not indicative of intolerance for christians or their religion, it is indicative of my lack of respect for the position of many christians that nonbelievers do not belong in this country as you suggested.
  
  Love, morality, integrity, charity, service and fellowship are not concepts that are exclusive to religious belief, and nobody said they were worn-out beliefs. But of course, you know nobody said that.
  
  Again you assume that you know what motivates me. You can't accept that I refuse to believe in your myths, and so you assume I must be prideful, unwilling to humble myself, bent on my own sinful ways. If only I would "come correct" as you say and believe in the same myths you do and then I could "strive to live a righteous life". Are you kidding me? What makes you think I do not strive to live a righteous life? Ahhh, because you believe that only believers in your own religion are capable of striving to live a righteous life.
  
  That's the problem with religions in our world. Most of them have no true tolerance for others. For your religion to be true, the nonbelievers are either not yet saved due to their prolonged pride apparently, or never will be saved, and either way it's the nonbelievers own fault and so they deserve it. Although many christians believe that their god purposely predestines many to disbelief, either way, it is disrespectful and intolerant of others, and that is what causes a great deal of the conflicts in society.
  
  We all know that one of the great achievements of the founding of America is freedom of religion. It is how that is intended and interpretted that is where people disagree.
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  sneakorocksolidposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You will be saved either here or after you depart. You are free to believe whatever you choose it's not my buisness. That doesn't mean we don't want you or we wish you harm we don't. We want you to recieve and enjoy the blessings you deserve while you're here.
  
  There are two estates the first was in heaven you were a spirit and you accepted Jesus's plan for salvation and you were given physical body. The tricky part is the secound estate where when you were given a choice would still love Heavenly Father as you did in the first estate. This is known as "Free Agency". It's your right to choose and I will respect your choice because I was given the same choice and I want mine respected also.
  
  Had you not accepted Jesus's plan for salvation in heaven you would have never been here. The opposition wanted you to be forced to believe or else and their plan was rejected and they rebelled against God and were banished. I love you and I care about you and thats my only interest.
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  goldenpathposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Right on, bro! It's interesting. People like you and I just know when we are about to get slammed. I'm just grateful that He chose the first.
  
  Keep warm and dry down south!
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  sneakorocksolidposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I pray for the lords blessings, peace and comfort for you ard yours Brother! I'm wearing my rubber boots!
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  goldenpathposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It's a heck of a chosen mission field.... I'm only 5'3" so rubber boots won't do for me. I need a body suit!
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  sneakorocksolidposted 14 years agoin reply to this
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  Pandoras Boxposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Oooooh, I see. So that's why you suggested I leave the country
  
  Come on, man, get real. You've gotta know I've heard that spiel before.
  
  I'll give you this, though I do believe you're merely trying to save face at this late date. I do believe that most christians are truly just trying to do what they think is right, and that group probably includes you.
  
  And I imagine it must be very frustrating sometimes for a christian trying to defend their beliefs when there are people around who know better. So christians occassionally -or frequently as the case may be- slip up and say hateful things. After all, all us nonbelievers are gonna rot in hell anyway, glory be to god the almighty.
  
  I don't blame you for being hateful towards me and intolerant of my beliefs. It is, of course, what your god has taught you.
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  sneakorocksolidposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You aren't going to hell and I would never wish that on anyone. I'm tolerant of your beliefs I just wish more for you and the other nonbelievers. You deserve all the blessings you can handle! If I've been hateful towards you I sincerely apologize and hopefully we can be friends. If you need my help please ask. Your friend Rick.
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  LeslieAdrienneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Poetlorraine;
  
  You can't get rid of something that is more powerful than you are....Truth trodden to the earth will rise again.....
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  (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  One word: Indoctrination.
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poetlorraineposted 14 years ago
advertising...... are you mad, they are free. Hello Mark don't upset me i am not well ha ha ha ha
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  LOL
  
  The first month's supply of heroin is usually free as well...
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  defenestratethisposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Did someone say Heroin?
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  agvulpesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  poetlorraine , sorry to hear you are not well, doesn't matter if they are free or not it still boils down to 'advertising' or worse a subtle form of 'brain washing'
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earnestshubposted 14 years ago
Truth will rise again and religion will be found in the myths and legends section.
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  LeslieAdrienneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That's kind of funny....
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earnestshubposted 14 years ago
Found it! I did not mention you at all!
OF course that isn't lying, that would be "unchristian!
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caravalhophotoposted 14 years ago
No confusion of the Bible...I was raised in the Church and am very proud of who I am, how I raised my children and how my Grandchildren are being raised, in the Church and with Gods word. No brainwashing, my own interpetations and no false Gods.
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  AnythingArtzyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  AMEN! you only have to look around to see there is more at work that a puddle of sludge. The Bible doesn't tell us everything . our minds couldn't possibly grasp it all. obviously from most of the posts I read in this forum that is quite true.
  
  It is historicly correct. proven over and over. Nobody as yet has been able to disprove the bible it's just a simple matter of them refusing to believe.
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Jeramiposted 14 years ago
When Jesus said Lord Why has thy forsaken me, I think that this might have been translated from something like; Lord, I have done all that you have ask me to, What is taking so long for you to get me outa here, Don't leave me here.
I think that he was thinking something like that.

As far as Canes wife goes; Cain was given "The Mark of Cain for protection from some other group of people. Maybe a diffrent species of humanoid??? He either took a wife of these "People" or took a sister as a wife. There is no mentioned of the "generations of Cain" so I would think that he took a wife from this other species of man.
YES; that would mean that evolution AND creation of "MAN" could be true.
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earnestshubposted 14 years ago
Any god is a false god, since the beginning of the many hundreds of gods, all the same. They make threats!
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  LeslieAdrienneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Do they ??? So do atheists.....Mark wants us put in jail, you want us put in the insane asylum...I am sure that there are others who want us to just "go away"...if you catch my drift.....
  
  So, if gods make threats and atheists make threats then are atheists gods? And if atheists are gods, can I have a pony?
  
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Sweetie pie, teaching children that there is an invisible sky fairy who will burn them for eternity if they do not believe is child abuse.
  
  Child abusers should be locked up.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  and also why my family do not allow religious people to indoctrinate our children.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Not sure why I am "making threats" either. I genuinely feel that teaching this crap to children and forcing them to kneel and pray to jesus for salvation is child abuse.
  
  Child abusers should be locked up. And Apparently - any one who argues against this is full of hate?
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  Valerie Fposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  And I genuinely feel that teaching hatred on any basis and smearing whole groups of people on the basis of, among other things, their creed, is also what you'd call child abuse.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No you don't. You are just defending your religion. "It is OK to abuse children for God because someone else does X."
  
  Sorry sweetie pie - your religion causes nothing but hatred and conflict. See any history book.
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  Valerie Fposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Don't call me "sweetie pie" if you don't mean it.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  LOL
  
  I mean it.
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  Valerie Fposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Baloney.
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  caravalhophotoposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I don't understand when you say God makes threats...everything you have learned your whole life, even as a child has consequences...whether those end up being good or bad. When I was a kid, I messed up I was grounded...a threat or consequence to an action.
  If you murder, steal, commit adultry, etc...there is a consequence to that action with God, yes...but it stems further than that...you will hopefully be punished under the law...or a disease for extramarital affairs.
  Your arguments make no sense. My children and grandchildren are brought up with values and morals...right from wrong, I also believe in St.Nick...yes some called him Santa...but the message is still the same from the same Saint...my family know the story and yes we believe. Children don't know hatred...they are taught hatred...it usually starts in the home...so if we can teach our children good...life would be alot easier for everyone all the way around.
  Final word: stating that religion causes war is like saying...guns kill people...People's misinterpretation of the Bible/Curan/Book of David...cause wars, just as people pulling the trigger kill people.
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  Mishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Oh, so you have grandkids, and still believe in Santa? Umm well, that explains a lot about your other posts, thank you
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  caravalhophotoposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The true story of Santa Claus begins with Nicholas, who was born during the third century in the village of Patara. At the time the area was Greek and is now on the southern coast of Turkey. His wealthy parents, who raised him to be a devout Christian, died in an epidemic while Nicholas was still young. Obeying Jesus' words to "sell what you own and give the money to the poor," Nicholas used his whole inheritance to assist the needy, the sick, and the suffering. He dedicated his life to serving God and was made Bishop of Myra while still a young man. Bishop Nicholas became known throughout the land for his generosity to the those in need, his love for children, and his concern for sailors and ships.
  
  Under the Roman Emperor Diocletian, who ruthlessly persecuted Christians, Bishop Nicholas suffered for his faith, was exiled and imprisoned. The prisons were so full of bishops, priests, and deacons, there was no room for the real criminals—murderers, thieves and robbers. After his release, Nicholas attended the Council of Nicaea in AD 325. He died December 6, AD 343 in Myra and was buried in his cathedral church, where a unique relic, called manna, formed in his grave. This liquid substance, said to have healing powers, fostered the growth of devotion to Nicholas.
  
  Kind of like a early day Mother Teresa...oh did she never exist either???
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  sneakorocksolidposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hear!Hear!
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  cheaptrickposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  "Guns don't Kill people,
  Husbands who come home Early Kill people"
  So much for"Love your neighbor....
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  Hokeyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  If a person dies and then springs back to life, do they get their money back for the coffin?
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h.a.borcichposted 14 years ago
To Artsy
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earnestshubposted 14 years ago
Goodnight all.
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Jeramiposted 14 years ago
I agree that where Cain's wife came from is of little importance.
But we need to connect all of the dots so-to-speak; with the important issues, it then doesn't hurt to answer all of the little questions also.

When we leave too many gaps in the story ... it is like leaving the window open and critters come in and tear up the house.
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  LeslieAdrienneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Jerami
  
  I do apologize for making light of the matter...I really try and be more cognizant of what I write and theimpact that it may have....
  
  forgive me......
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No apologies accepted "cause" you didn't do "nuttin"
  I was intending to be adding to what you said; not disagreeing.
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earnestshubposted 14 years ago
Hi Jeremi, you sure have a few critters at the moment!
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Mornin Earnist..
  Critters ? Yea I know; I need help.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well good morning to you! I hope your day is wonderful, mine is ended now, I have stayed up late to catch up.
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It don't take but one open window. Don't even think about an open door,
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well it is interesting that although poles apart in belief, having read the bible as you know, I think your lack of interpretation is a better way to read it than many here. I still say it is dangerous rubbish, that will not surprise you!
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Am not suprised thats OK by me. I gotta go tile a bathroom and make a dollar... Yaul ALL Have a good day..
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NewYorkerposted 14 years ago
What confuses me about the bible is how people actually find the time to read something that boring ..
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That is a really valid point! I would suggest .... Nobody who has not been lent on, dripped on and indoctrinated. Does that sound about right?
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  NewYorkerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That sounds more than right! It sounds CORRECT!
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I spent some time in New York, you are as quick as the city itself! Loved it by the way!
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  NewYorkerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Oh yeah, where'd you stay?
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I have been a few times. Stayed on fifth. I will remember the name of the hotel! Old and poky and really good. other times I stayed with friends in Manhattan and Brooklyn. I found the best fun was to meet locals in the deli, or anywhere that locals frequent, like bars. I always had fun all over America and Canada. I also did over all your car museums. in every state that had one! I am a car and motorcycle freak!
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  NewYorkerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  If you're a car freak, you would have LOVED the NYPD Museum.
  
  Have you ever checked out Hell's Kitchen, Spanish Harlem or Chinatown? If you have not, I'm telling you, check out these three neighborshoods next time you get here. And yes, Obama does SUCK!
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  First point Obama is good!
  I got to all three neighborhoods, and next time I will do the same again! New York is a world!
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  NewYorkerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Just checked out your profile, left you some fan mail and other treats for you, you're from Australia?
  Been there!
  
  Sydney and.. Victoria I think. Man, you guys can drink and party.
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earnestshubposted 14 years ago
And just to let you know, i just became a follower, and I do not dislike Obama!
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earnestshubposted 14 years ago
By the way, I was an outback kid who moved to a very big city (4 million) when I was 20. Melbourne is bigger than New York, but much less population density. It covers about 65 miles by 30 miles in area.That is bigger isn't it?
I fell in love with New York and wanted to move there!
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  NewYorkerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That's bigger than New York, although our population just reached 20,000,000.
  
  I'm a small town boy from California, moved to New York for college and it took me a year to fall inlove with NY (maybe because I kept getting mugged), but obviously your first impression was better than mine, Lol.
  
  Although now, I wouldn't live anywhere else in the world.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I don't blame you for being happy in the big apple. My first trip was 1977. I saw a couple of muggings, near broadway under bright lights, but the ones I saw were almost begging to be mugged!
  I saw a mugger in a doorway, then I saw the muggees!
  I followed a few drug dealers around to see how many people you had to go through to get drugs! Just curious, not buying. It was fun! They all had enormous walkie talkies to make contact. In the end one got pissed off and threatened me, so I stopped my sport and went back to the Taft hotel! Told you I would remember the name of that hotel!
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  NewYorkerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I do this sometimes. Follow drug dealers around, never with the intention to buy, just to see what it's like to be them.. Y'know.. I would like to refer to it as an anthropological interactive observation.
  
  And the Taft? The Taft is amazing! They were planning on changing that one to a four seasons.. don't know if they did, lol
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You sound like a spirited person! Ya gotta live doncha? Big city, big life! I loved the old taft. Stayed on the 16th floor facing the twin towers as I recall. The lobby and reception were so olde world! So many buskers outside, and guys selling self lighting yo yos! Great memories!
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  NewYorkerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Big city, big life, stressful job and a two bedroom apartment on Lexington! Living the dream, my man.
  
  This hotel is gorgeous. Feels like going back to the mid 1800's or something, lol
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Wonderful! Stress is good if you like what you do! Any family?
  Yeh loved that old hotel!
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  NewYorkerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No, just a girlfriend. I'm waiting to settle down better before I rush into something more. I'm 27 years old, I work about 12 - 16 hours a day and I don't want my kids to grow up around that. I'm waiting to finish my residency so I can refer to myself as a real psychiatrist and open my own practise, good and steady 9 - 5 job.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well I believe from what I have seen so far, you will be an asset.
  I love psychology as for psychiatry well, I wish I knew more.
  I have a long standing learning of jungian theories, and have read all of his work. I have also read Maria Louise Von Franz, Hillman, and other post Jungians. I have also done a Uni course.
  I must ask.. are you required to read "The Puer Papers?"
  I have been reading them for years! Bit hard for a self educated back land boy!
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  NewYorkerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The Puer Papers by James Hillman? Yeah, we were forced to read that in college. You have no idea how boring that is to a bunch of 20 year olds. I might read them again.. Thanks for a good book reminder.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I could not remember that it was Hillman. I have it in a copied form without a cover, and to be truthful, I have not read it lately. Getting old!
  I can imagine some of what it would be like at twenty! I found it hard going. I found Jung to be a relatively easy read once you understand the basics of types, symbols archetypes et al.
  I must to bed New Yorker. I would like to hear more about you, and your life. I will see you again soon here, and we will hijack another silly forum!
  You look after yourself hear? I really like you!
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  NewYorkerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well, thank you sir! I like you too!
  
  And looking forward to next time!
  
  Good night and sleep tight now!
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks New Yorker! I will be back on the morrow.
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CMHypnoposted 14 years ago
The only thing that confuses me about the bible is why people take it so literally and expend so much time arguing about it?

The other thing I really have never understood is why someone letting themselves get crucified supposedly 'saved' the world? Just looks like poor life choices to me. The world hasn't changed much since the first century AD - still loads of violence, killing, abuse, intolerance etc going on, a lot of it by so-called religious people. I make mistakes in life, but I don't 'sin' and I don't need saving.

All it seems to have bred is a bunch of people who think it is a good thing to martyr themselves - surely anyone can do more to improve their world alive and if you believe in a god who gave you life and tells you not to kill, why would that god demand the life of his only son and be at all pleased at people throwing their lives away for philosophical/theological point?
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Bloody good points!
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  Valerie Fposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You'd think differently if someone put their own life on the line for you.
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theirishobserver.posted 14 years ago
The several hundred pages between the covers
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Pandoras Boxposted 14 years ago
What confused me about the Bible? Nothing, really. It's a bunch of old myths, some drawn off other myths stolen from other cultures, written by a bunch of varying dead men with intellects that believed in all kinds of crap the way people did back then.

I am not even confused by the fact that the religions it was formed by managed to gain so many followers. Christians like to believe that it's spiritual conviction, but what they actually are experiencing is the ancient art of gullibility.

And I am not confused that the religions have endured. For the most part, people really haven't changed that much. Most peoples' minds have been in a rut for... ever. And that is the way the powers that be like it. Let them eat cake, as they say. It keeps your minds and hearts occupied and numb, your head bent and your hands obediant.

It's kinda sad, but not really confusing after you've taken a good look at it and understand its evolution. People are slowly waking up, and as someone else here pointed out, they are indeed leaving the flock in droves, so that is good.

For anyone who is confused, start looking at the origins and development of the bible, and the origins and development of the religions. Even better, take a look at the origins and development of ancient religions in general. It will all start to become clear for you.
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efeguyposted 14 years ago
nothing.it inspire me and give me reasons to live everyday
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Mishaposted 14 years ago
I always suspected HP is an online dating site
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Cagsilposted 14 years ago
What confuses you about the bible?

Nothing. It's clear in it's subjective nature. It's clear in the mixed messages it brings to people, so they can contradict their own existence. It's clear that it was brought about to help society move forward, but had diminished the value of living.

Nope, I'm not confused by the bible. Not at all.
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Rod Marsdenposted 14 years ago
If the Bible is the word of God how then can it change? In the original king James version you have "My cup floweth over" and in the most modern King James you have: "My cup is full". There is a BIG difference in an overflowing cup and a cup that is full.

If you can constantly change and update the so called word then what can it possibly mean? It certainly can't stand up to time and the whims of Christian scribes.
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shazz01109posted 14 years ago
It's contradictions (i.e. Gospels). I am Christian, and believe that the truth is in the Bible. I just don't take the Bible and interpret it literally...
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I could give you a different way to look at it and see what you think...if you like?
  
  The bible isn't to be taken literal. Even, Albert Einstein said it best- Science without religion is lame, Religion without science is blind.
  
  If you're curious what he meant?
  
  Science requires ethics. Religion is suppose to be ethical rules for living life.
  
  However, Religion is false and science is truth. Religion(blindful acceptance of mystical higher cause) and Science best defines truth as we know it to be.
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  Pani Midnyte Odinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Loved this reply, Cagsil. I almost completely agree.
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  shazz01109posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No offense, but reading the Bible, or the Bible in and of itself is not religion. Reading the Bible can be both religious and spiritual, and also just a spiritual thing, and not religious. Unfortunately, there are many people who take a literal interpretation of the Bible. I think that the Bible has the 'truth' in it, in that the lessons from the stories have some moral 'truth.' I don't get caught up in science vs. religion. Both take a leap of faith, both contain truth, both have limitations, and both have their flaws...
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  Pandoras Boxposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I agree that there is some truth in the bible. And alot of crap. There is some truth in just about any book.
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Cagsilposted 14 years ago
Albert Einstein quoted yet again.

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.

Just a thought?
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  Pandoras Boxposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Love this one.
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Cagsilposted 14 years ago
Here is yet another from Einstein.

The release of atomic energy has not created a new problem. It has merely made more urgent the necessity of solving an existing one.

Yet another editing in:

The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it.
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  Pani Midnyte Odinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hmm... you know, I never took much interest in Einstein before. I may have to do some research about him. These quotes are brilliant.
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I'm glad you like them.
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awareposted 14 years ago
the anger towards it. its a book . why it causes so much tension irks me
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  yay U M Right, Norinit
  
  I gree Looks lkike buk rioght? Yes
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awareposted 14 years ago
hay mark?
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Elilahposted 14 years ago
lol ahh that is great
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  Deborah Sextonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
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tantrumposted 14 years ago
What's confusing about the Bible ?
Nothing. Just words. Take them as you like.
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Elilahposted 14 years ago
All religions are riddled with dogmas, contradictions, hypocrisies keeping us chasing our tails like confused domesticated primates. Obviously, we have been led far far far astray from the Ultimate Truth that we are ALL of ONE Collective Unconscious. We the masses in all countries cultures are programmed to believe the lies given throughout the aeons so we keep fighting amongst each other and they the elitest pricks governing us with rules and regulations keep taking our fricking money-magic paper to keep us working not backed by gold-and having a blast in Heaven as we all work our asses off for little to nothing. We will Wake Up when ALL is ready and willing. Really they do not care about the money so long as we are ALL under control not questioning behaving like the little robotic sheep that is easy to boss around. Funny thing is we are so much more than they. What seperates them from us is their robotic non questioning soldiers or armies. Even funnier is there is more of us than the military. We just don't question. OR Change. OR get off our asses to DO something about it.
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  sneakorocksolidposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Could you tell us how you really feel?
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  Pandoras Boxposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Age of aquarius, baby! LOL
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Pandoras Boxposted 14 years ago
I have some things I need to take care of right now. Sneako I'll check back later if you wish to continue the discussion. You may want to go ahead a present your interpretation of our religious freedom and stop assuming that you know what motivates my disbelief. Cause all you're doing so far is proving my point that most of the prominent religious beliefs do more harm to our society than good.
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cheaptrickposted 14 years ago
What confuses me about the Bible is Everyone understands it but No one agrees on it...
Am I Missing something here...
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Hokeyposted 14 years ago
Did Noah have woodpeckers on the ark? If he did, where did he keep them?
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  Hokeyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Why don't woodpeckers get headaches when they slam their head on a tree all day?
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  Hokeyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Doesn't a lightning rod on top of church show a lack of faith?
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  Hokeyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Do Jewish vampires avoid crosses or Stars of David?
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  Hokeyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  What is satn's last name?
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  Mishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Don't have anybody but yourself to talk to? Poor thing
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  Hokeyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  When Atheists go to court, do they have to swear on the bible?
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  Rod Marsdenposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Generally speaking Jewish vampires avoid the Star of David. I don't believe there are any Jewish Christians left in this world. I could be wrong.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Please explain Jewish Vampires. My husband is Jewish and he hasn't bitten me yet..Well he hasn't drawn blood anyway.
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Hokeyposted 14 years ago
What's funny about it is how often I'm asked by Christians if I'm working on trying to disprove god's existence, and others will tell me I can't as if that gives their belief more merit, sorry guys, but it doesn't.
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earnestshubposted 14 years ago
It takes little effort to see how ridiculous biblical belief is in the number of religions it creates.
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  Hokeyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Here's a list of "deities/people" you cannot prove do not exist, that I could believe in:
  Zeus
  Poseidon
  Aphrodite
  Huitzilopochtli
  Wodanaz
  Horus
  Fujin
  The Flying Spaghetti Monster
  The Invisible Pink Unicorn
  Tooth Fairy
  Santa Clause
  Boogeyman
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Not a bad list there Hokey! Of course we have a history history going back before Ra that all the other gods seemed to have evolved from. Gotta love continuity!
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Deborah Sextonposted 14 years ago
The true mystical experience (connection with the Absolute) is beyond description, and cannot be explained to one who has not experienced it himself. Just as a person who has been blind since birth cannot comprehend the concept of color so one who has been spiritually blind cannot grasp the brilliant spectrum of the spiritual world.

Rabbi Abraham Abulafia said:
One who reaches the highest level cannot reveal it to anyone. All he can do is give over the keys, so that the enlightened individual can open the gates which are sealed to exclude the unworthy.
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  (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  This weak and tired argument is patterned under the fallacy that something that doesn't exist can be compared to something that does.
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  cheaptrickposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I Reached "The Highest Level"one night down at Scullys pub!
  Your Right!
  I handed the"Keys"over to someone else!
  I just can't remember Who!
  I am"Unworthy"<------->
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  Deborah Sextonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  A man puts away childish things.
  And OooH you've hurt me so badly! NOT.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hi Deborah.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hello Earnest.
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earnestshubposted 14 years ago
Watch it sneaker! You've gone all reasonable again!
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earnestshubposted 14 years ago
How many different versions of the "truth" and the "word" are there?
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Good daa earnist...
  You are starting to sound like me... One truth .. too many interpretations...
  Just cause it was marketed poorly does not mean that the product does not exist.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Marketing the old testament is a hard sell even for the big guns. Lot's of hard to explain psychosis in that lot!
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yea I gotta agree, that is imposible to explain with all certainty. I've got a couple of potential explinations .. but I'm too tired to tell it correctly today. I'm pooped goina soak in the hot tub in a few min.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Sounds like heaven!
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  It feels more like hell. Of my own making.
  
  Like I said my brain ain't hittin on all eight cylinders tonight... But there are lots of good possible reasons that much of the population may have needed to have been eradicated.
  
  Here is one brain dead attempt to explain one of them.
  
  Just suppose that GOD initiated evolution. And just suppose that there was one species of humanoid that almost lived up to his expectations and he tweaked it just a little.
  He then eradicated the rest of the evolved species cause he knew that this one was it.
  
  And then this one turned its back on his. He gave them plenty of warnings and prophesies that would be fulfilled if they didn't rethink their position.
  The book of Daniel foretold exactly how that favored Nation will come to its end of Days.
  He also foretold that "THE BEAST" as seen in Rev. 13 would become a False RELIGION. And he told of a false Prophet.
  And during the days of this False Prophet and False RELIGION ; He was going to have a hands off mentality.
  And after we bring ourselves to the brink of destruction he will step it and prevent our inhalation of ourselves.
  This isn't a very well written explination of what I'm thinking but is kinda sorta what I'm thinking.
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Hokeyposted 14 years ago
Catholic Bible? You mean there are different ones? Hmmmm
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Hokeyposted 14 years ago
1. The first book of the Bible is Guinness's, In the book of Guinness Adam and Eve were created from an apple
(Hmm could they mean Genesis?)
2. Adam and Eve were created from an apple tree. Noah's wife was Joan of the Ark. Noah built the ark and the animals came on in pears.
3. Moses went to the top of Mount Cyanide to get the 10 Commandments.
4. The first commandment was when Eve told Adam to eat the apple.
5. The seventh commandment is thou shalt not admit ery.
6. Lot's wife was a pillar of salt by day and a ball of fire by night.
7. Samson slayed the Philistines with the axe of the apostles.
8. The greatest miracle in the bible is when Joshua told his son to stand still and he actually obeyed him.
9. Unleavened bread is bread made with no ingredients.
10. A Christian should have only one wife. This is called monotony.
11. Joshua led the Hebrews in the battle of Geritol.
12. Solomon had 100 wives and 700 porcupines.
13. The epistles were the wives of the apostles.
14. When Mary heard she was the mother of Jesus, she sang the Magna Carta.
15. When the three wise guys from the east side arrived they found Jesus sacked in the manager.
16. The people who followed the Lord were called the 12 decibels.
17. St. Paul cavorted to Christianity. He preached holy acrimony, which is another name for marriage.
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earnestshubposted 14 years ago
Too much! I am enjoying this far too much!!!! Now I should feel guilty! Nah can't do it! So funny!!!
That's right it is worth 4 lol's!
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earnestshubposted 14 years ago
Must be hard to be tolerant with so many hundreds of different "christian" beliefs. All from the same book! Hilarious!
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  What about the "personal" god? Everyone has their own personal beliefs, so they also have their own personal god. Many people have said, during conversations recently, my god isn't like that?
  
  Oh really?
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Cagsilposted 14 years ago
Some say, I serve the only TRUE God?

Oh really? How is it that there is only ONE true god, yet billions of people have their own personal GOD? And, their God is just as powerful as the next God?

Who thinks up this garbage? People buy into it...it funny!
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earnestshubposted 14 years ago
This seems to be the story so far.
God makes the earth and all the firmament in 7 days.
No problem.
omniscient
Then he creates man and answers his prayers.
No problem there.
omnipotent
Then god sees all on earth.
No worries here either.
Omnipresent
After seeing the state of what he created god decides ah screw the poor and starving, I will just go and help the 'believers"
omni hateful!
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Hokeyposted 14 years ago
Are orthodox Jews automatically immune to the swine flu?
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earnestshubposted 14 years ago
Yes well the problem I have with that is the same throughout this tome. Why would any god (assuming god does not suffer from mental illness,) behave in a way that any decent human with or without religious belief would not?
Why would an omniscient god screw up the human body and mind, create the devil, then blame all his own screw ups on mankind, then allow all the pain and suffering which being omniscient would be a snap to stop! Why would a god not adjust seratonin uptake so that murder and mahem are no longer in control of the brain? Why make mankind at all if it is then to be punished and controlled for it's whole existence.
To also accept this type of inferior entity as a god and worship it seems to me to be insanity caused by brainwashing.
Of all the possible reasons for us being here , this makes the tooth fairy seem really valid! Crazy!
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  Hokeyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Great post! Took the words right out of my mouth. Now this is truth!
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earnestshubposted 14 years ago
Here is an example of gods "work"
Next time there is an earthquake, you will know it is not the earth's plates moving!

The LORD is a jealous God, filled with vengeance and wrath. He takes revenge on all who oppose him and furiously destroys his enemies! The LORD is slow to get angry, but his power is great, and he never lets the guilty go unpunished. He displays his power in the whirlwind and the storm. The billowing clouds are the dust beneath his feet. At his command the oceans and rivers dry up, the lush pastures of Bashan and Carmel fade, and the green forests of Lebanon wilt. In his presence the mountains quake, and the hills melt away; the earth trembles, and its people are destroyed. Who can stand before his fierce anger? Who can survive his burning fury? His rage blazes forth like fire, and the mountains crumble to dust in his presence. The LORD is good. When trouble comes, he is a strong refuge. And he knows everyone who trusts in him. But he sweeps away his enemies in an overwhelming flood. He pursues his foes into the darkness of night. (Nahum 1:2-8 NLT)

Wow! so believable!
Neurotic delusional little god!
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Jeramiposted 14 years ago
I can see your point and say that it seems to have some validity.
I can see my point and see some flaws in it.

There's gotta be something that we haven't put into our equation. Something that we do not know???
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earnestshubposted 14 years ago
The agenda is set. Fear is at base. Examples are given, obedience required but not possible.
A neurotic agenda.
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earnestshubposted 14 years ago
I think it is too hard for religionists to quit their fear based beliefs. I remember from psychology that man will do anything in preference to self examination and believe it is true. It took years after I educated my self about science and psychology, maths and logic before I could get myself free of religious indoctrination, and feel so lucky to have escaped. It took courage and time.
Science does not set out to disprove religion. Lawrence Krauss never said a word about it until attacked and most scientists are the same.
Some things are known, some not, but what is known has passed the rigours of scientific method, peer review and religious attacks.
It has also created much in tangible medical and other development.
Religion is a static set of beliefs the detail of which cannot be agreed on that cause war and conflict.
The megalomania of having been "saved" as opposed to "hellbent" is outrageous!
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  Valerie Fposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  There are some religions that actually encourage self-examination and discourage any attempts to avoid it.
  
  What's more megalomanic? Believing one's self to be saved, or to think one's self so special as to never need saving?
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No, non believers do not believe in being saved by an impossible entity. Nothing megalomanic there.
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  Valerie Fposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Do you believe there is nothing in the universe superior to yourself?
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  figmentposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I think it's bullshit all the stuff left out (hidden) from us to know.
  reply report

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