Atheism Rules !

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knolyourselfposted 16 years ago
Don't feel have too, since it would take a page and more time than care to give it right now. But me thinks we get along fine, until it comes to your religion. Then it seems like constant disagreement. Nothing wrong with that, however maybe a slight indication of my argument. You may be intollerant of all but your one god. If many gods, then we all have one and there is no problem. If only one -don't we got to fight over it. Supply and demand.
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aka-djposted 16 years ago
I am AMAZED at how off subject everyone seems to go!!!

"Atheism Rules" is the topic, but most posts go down some fruitless paths.
Atheism does NOT rule! It's even an inaccurate use of the English language to say so.
An "ism" cannot rule. People rule! If those people/person have atheistic ideologies, then their rule will reflect that ideology.

Saying "Christianity Rules" would be equally incorect. If you get my point.

So to reiterate my point, atheists are "ignorant and arrogant" to say there is NO god.
They DON'T know for sure! They don't know enough!

Heck, scientists are searching for the "god particle". The thing that is supposed to be holding all things together.

Not to mention "dark matter", which they believe exists, but can't prove it.
Maybe the atheists can make a ruling on that for them too.
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  mohitmisraposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Surely they can ,they know it all. There are no need for scientists or the particle accelarator,just ask the man and he will say there is nothing :lol
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  Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  So what do you say?
  
  "There IS a god."
  
  Or
  
  "I believe there is a god."?
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  aka-djposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Just admit, for everyones benefit,
  that you can't say, catagorically, "there there is No god",
  but that you "beleive" there is no god.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Answer my question first then I will respond to this.
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  aka-djposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  I was taught in school(public fyi) not to answer questions with questions.
  Yours may have been a different school.
  You are starting to sound a lot like a polititian.
  Please read all of what I wrote, and then respond appropriately.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Here is how it went.
  
  You made a statement:
  
  I then asked you a question:
  
  You then responded with this, and did not answer my question:
  
  I then said:
  
  To which you replied:
  
  Which sort of threw me, because I asked the first question. Don't worry, I have answered this question before and will do so again.
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  aka-djposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Which sort of threw me, because I asked the first question. Don't worry, I have answered this question before and will do so again.
  Just what does this mean?
  "Will do so again",just not right now!?
  You ARE a polititian, aren't you?
  
  I will let you off the hook, for now, it's late and I do have to get some (beauty) sleep
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  Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  No, don't go, I have just started to find some of my answers:
  
  It's a long thread
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  Ben Bushposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  I prefer the School of Jesus.
  
  When asked by the religious leaders a question about the origin of His authority, Jesus responded by asking them a question about the origin of the authority of John The Baptist.
  
  When they failed to answer the question, Jesus informed them that He(Jesus) would not answer their question.
  
  So, in this instance, Mark's response is more like Jesus than your response.
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  aka-djposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  My point was to get a straight answer.
  He gave it, that settles it.
  Unfortunately, far too often people avoid answers by asking questions, that in most cases is not relevant.
  As far as behaving like Jesus, if He did not/does not exist, (atheists view,not mine) then it is irrelevant to the discussion.
  If I act like He does, it's because I choose to, NOT to conform to someone elses expectation!
  Life is all about choice. Freedom, what a wonderful thing! But dangerous. Ones whole life is at stake, (including eternal life). Which, I guess atheists do not beleive exists either!
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  Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Now answer my question.
  
  I can only speak for myself, but I do not believe in eternal life, other than the fact that nothing can be destroyed, only turned into something else.
  
  But if it makes you feel better to do so - go right ahead.
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  mohitmisraposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  other than the fact that nothing can be destroyed, only turned into something else.
  Exactly -energy can neither be created or destroyed ,so what happens to that energy,that thing which animates the body after death.The truth is you must die-then come back :)ten you realise there is no such thing as death or actually its a joke :)You go back home.
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  aka-djposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Now there's a contradiction if I have ever seen one!
  Energy cannot be created, nor destroyed! I remember that from school too!
  So where did all the energy in our universe come from?
  Created itself, no doubt.
  Perhaps it emerged from some primordial soup, in the outer reaches of the black swamp, bedhind Alpha Centauri. Or perhaps emerged through a black hole, from another dimension.
  Oh sorry, I forgot, that is something we can't see, feel, smell or touch.
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  mohitmisraposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  This is what is called in Indian words Shiva and Shakti-what the shivalinga represents.
  Shiva is the source-the light which has no beginning and no end-no time.
  From it with our thoughts we co-create this world including you and me-shakti.
  You can see,feel and touch but it comes in another dimension what is termed satori or enlightenment or samadhi-a different dimension alltogether.
  What is reffered to as the third or inner eye
  From the One comes the two and goes back to the One.
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  aka-djposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry, you lost me. This is all to confusing to me.
  If I do understand anything here, then it all falls into the same argument as God, and the spiritual world. Not scientiffic, observable etc. I would need to be a "believer" of this concept.
  No thanks. I'll stick with the One God. Much easier to work with, (mentally).
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  mohitmisraposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Its is one god given different names.Wether he is a Christian, a Mulsim, a Hindu or an atheist doesnt make a difference,every human has the same experience which is a state of absolute bliss-you get conquered and conquer the universe at the same time Have put up a poem called Religions which explains this better.For this one must die what the Christians say to be reborn.
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  Ben Bushposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Spoken like a true rebel who touts personal freedom as the ultimate in life, even to the exclusion of Christ like behavior.
  
  It seems to matter not how Christ may desire for His people to behave as long as I get to choose for myself. In Texas, we call that HOGWASH!!!!!!!
  
  That's part of the whole point Mark has been making about professing Christians. They talk a good game, but their actions leave much to be desired. In fact, many of them are nothing more than self-glorified jerks, simply because they have the freedom to choose to be a jerk in the name of Christ.
  
  And Atheists deserve nothing but?????????????? What happened to the love of Christ? Is it so important to win a point or a portion of an argument? And I'm not saying that Truth is irrelevant. But none of that matters if Christ is not promoted, glorified or uplifted by the love and compassion exhibited by your words and actions in the face of whatever comes your way!!!!!!
  
  And by the way, Eternity is at stake for Who????? Yourself???? What about the ones you are addressing and those who read your words???? Remember, the ones Christ died and rose again for. The ones who don't know Him. And remember, we were one of those at one time. We were on the outside looking in........to what??...to whom??............a bunch of self-righteous jerks??????? Oh yeah!!!!!!! The Atheists are beating the door down to get in our club of holy jerks!!!!!!
  
  What a joke!!!!!!!!! It would be better to shut and never mention Jesus than to mention His name and have your actions turn them away.
  
  Quit making excuses.
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  aka-djposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  WOW! !
  Which side of the fence are you on?
  Or are you in a different field altogether?
  Should I consider myself rebuked?
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  Ben Bushposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  That depends on you. You have a choice. Exercise it.
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  allshookupposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  I have been asking myself that for quiet a while. So have some other believers, but I don't think they wanted to rock the boat. Looks like you had the guts. It is indeed hard to tell who he supports, he seem to trash Christians and non-Christians. (Trust me, I have been on the recieving end of his posts.) He seems to feel he is the only one doing what is Christian. One thing I think the world should realize is, Christians are humans, they are not perfect, just forgiven. My Bible says that Christians are to uplift one another.
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  Ben Bushposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  ASU,
  
  Many Christians are so arrogant that they think Truth resides within their personal Kingdom.
  I have found that many Non-Christians (yes, even Atheists) understand the World and how it is truly constructed and operates than do the Body of Christ. Just like Jesus said.
  
  And has been pointed out on these forums before, no one expects Christians to be perfect. But when their actions are clearly against Scripture, they should possess enough humility to acknowledge that shortcoming. And when their position cannot be fully demonstrated from Scripture, they should acknowledge that. Many seem to have too much of a self righteous reputation to protect that prevents them from acknowledging wrongdoing to an infidel or in front of an infidel. Or anyone else.
  
  The fact is, when a person, regardless of their faith, states a truth, I will acknowledge it. If its not true, then it's not true. If it can't be determined at the time, then wait till it can be determined.
  
  Who Do I support?? I support the One who uplifted His Own Disciple by calling Him "Satan".
  Why? Because what Peter wanted did not fit the desires of God.
  
  So, I ask questions which make many uncomfortable, if not angry. The fact is, the answers to some of those questions challenges a particular ideology which is destroyed if honestly answered from Scripture and other sources. The fact is that many Christinas do not think for themselves very much. They do it only on a limited basis. They mostly parrot what they have heard from others. And when genuinely challenged, they resort to tactics which cover their ignorance instead of eagerly learning.
  
  BTW, the Bible says alot of things. You want to be uplifted? Are you prepared to receive what Paul told Timothy the Word of God was profitable for.......reproof, correction, instruction in righeousness.. Timothy was almost immediately told after that to "reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine."
  
  I'll say it again. If you're going to proclaim the name of Christ, then do what He says in a consistent manner. Don't put forth the banner of "Forgiven." Paul warned against this same tactic when he asked, 'Shall we sin that grace may abound? God Forbid." Even an atheist can recognize the hypocrisy in such a policy.
  
  Then again, there's the ole' saying, "If you can't stand the heat.............
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  allshookupposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  All I have seen you do is 'correct' other Christians. I have tried to explain to you time and time again, you say your sorry you don't mean to be like you are, then you do it again and again. Do you remember the long post I wrote to you? You asked if you had offended anyone? I answered and you were so sorry? Well, you are doing the same thing again. I will tell you again, you come across brash and hateful as proven in your post I am responding too. If you notice, I am not the only one who feels that way. So apparently I am not imagining it. Maybe you are the one who needs to look in the Bible and see what you are doing to fellow believers. You just used the word 'hypocrisy' with me. Remember, when you point your finger at me, there are several pointed back at yourself. And yes, I will say again, I am forgiven. No one is perfect except Him. You are harsh and hardened. If you cannot see that, then something is wrong in your heart. I will pray for you. If you are indeed saved, I pray God softens your heart toward those who are saved. Because you surely don't have a soft one right now for the saved, only for the unsaved. The KJV teaches to be that way to both. Tact is a nice things to have Ben. Jesus has it.
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  Ben Bushposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Have I offended You?
  
  Before you answer, please understand that I don't think I have really offended you. I don't think I have caused your life to be altered in a negative way to the point where your relationship with Christ has suffered. I don't think that I have caused you to stumble in your Christian walk.
  
  What I do think is that you don't like what I say or the manner in which I say it because you don't agree with what I say. Sorry, but that's not the same thing as being truly offended. So, until you prove differently to me, I don't buy it.
  
  If you and others are "offended" by what I said to somone, then you need to quit being so sensitive about the most trivial of things. In other words grow up spiritually. And if you or anyone else thinks that having any type of spiritual experience with God is an automatic grant of maturity, you are grossly mistaken. The fact is, the Word is for our growth. That's what I have majored on in my participation of these forums. I'm not here for chit chat. And if the topics we are dealing with and the manner they are being dealt with by me and/or others doesn't suit you, either attempt to understand what is taking place from a purely Scriptural standpoint or go elsewhere. No one is forcing you to watch, listen or participate.
  
  The fact is that I can carry on a conversation with just about anyone here on these forums, but I always attempt to get to the fundamental issues when dealing with any topic. I can spend alot of time covering periphery issues and never get to the heart of a matter. That's where most Christians are, just participating in idle spiritual chit chat. And I will not waste my time or the time of others talking about nothing. And I will not spend the bulk of my time apologizing for the Truth. Jesus says that Truth divides on it own. And that's what this is really about. I've touched areas that are sacred to some. I know becasue they were sacred to me at one time also. And I had to have God go to the very core of my being and show me that I was wrong, that I had been taught wrong. So I know exactly what is involved here.
  
  Tact?? Jesus was very Tactful. Satan, Hypocrites, Vipers, Den of Thieves, Whited Sepulchers full of dead mens bones. Oh yeah, terms of endearment used to uplift the recipients to their full potential. Jesus knew who he was dealing with and He dealt with them accordingly, even when they identified themselves with Him.
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  allshookupposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  You will reach no one, Christian or lost, with your attitude on hubpages. Which I feel carries over into your life offline. You feel your work is so much better than other Christians. And you come across as more conceited than anyone I've seen on hubpages. You have no humility, no charity. Without that, you have nothing. I guess you know that Bible says that since you seem to feel you are above the rest of us lowly Christians. You seem to feel you have a higher understanding that the rest of us who are saved. We share the same Holy Spirit and He speaks to us too, Ben. You show no respect to anyone who is saved. You feel you are better than we are. Your anwers to me and other saved people who question you are hateful and mean spirited. It's no wonder people who are saved and people who aren't saved can't tell which side you are on. The KJV says to let your light shine before men. If a lost person can't tell where you stand, who you serve, you have no way of reaching them. I guess that's your idea of letting your light shine though, and I'm sure you know better than the KJV. You seem to feel you know more than God.
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  Ben Bushposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Interestingly, they accused Jesus of basically the same thing, mingling with tax collectors and sinners.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  I beg to differ asu -
  
  I am assuming you would consider me "lost," which seems to be one of your criteria for valuing people. I have never seen you show the virtues of charity or humility.
  
  As one of the "lost," I see fairly well where Ben stands. And to my surprise, he is standing close to me. I don't see that from many christians.
  
  Seems to me you are awfully proud of the fact that you are "saved," and "blood-bought," and that gives you license to behave however you see fit. As though Jesus did all the work for you, and all you have to do is say "I accept Jesus Christ as my personal savior," and you are good to go. Saved. Guaranteed a place in heaven.
  
  Now, I am certainly no angel, and I am sure you dismiss everything I say because I am a god-hating atheist, but I know glaring hypocrisy when I see it, and that is all I see from you.
  
  Nationalistic neo-conservative politics - that is what I see from you. I never quote the bible, but just for you, I will do so.
  
  "Thou shalt not kill."
  
  Says it right there in the bible. Yet you favor nuclear weapons to "protect" your family, from a threat that your government tells you is there. The same government you do not trust to educate your children.
  
  Sheesh. This is what is know as "hypocrisy." If they do what you think is right you agree, if not, you go the other way. Nothing to do with trust, nothing to do with what it says in the bible. Everything to do with whether it serves your own personal purpose and oddly fascist/christian "values."
  
  I know, I know, if I was just a little better educated, I would understand it may say "Thou shalt not kill," but it doesn't actually mean that. It means you can kill anyone who is not innocent, no one is innocent in war, even if the war was declared for political/monetary gain, and we should all trust the government you do not trust to educate your child, and even if you get it wrong, it doesn't matter to you because you are already saved. All good.
  
  Yes - that is what you sound like to me. Not exactly giving me a reason to respect "those who are saved," so I don't see why on earth Ben should be showing you any respect, just because you say you are a believer.
  
  Ben certainly reaches me far more so that you do. In fact, it is people like you who helped persuade me christianity was wrong in the first place.
  
  Thank you.
  
  Take it or leave it.
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  Ben Bushposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Mark. I will be away for most of the day, but will respond to your earlier words (yesterday), hopefully this evening.
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  Make Moneyposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  I would have to agree Ben. You call every Christian that is defending Jesus Christ a hypocrite. But the fact is that we are all hypocrites to some extent (no Mark, I'm not just talking about Christians). Like the answer a priest gives to someone that says "I'd go to church if it wasn't for all the hypocrites" he replies "Well there is room for one more."
  
  Ben it is our duty as Christians to uphold the Word of God and to rebuke with love anyone that attacks It. That is what I am seeing in this thread, not just from Christians but from people from other religions as well. God bless them.
  
  Revelations 3:19 says,
  
  The word rebuke can be found 45 times in the Bible.
  
  Also in Revelations chapter 3 in verse 16 we are told not to be lukewarm.
  
  There are a lot of posts by "hypocritical" Christians in this thread that are clearly not lukewarm. But to the contrary and are also showing one body in Christ as we see we should be in Colossians 3:15.
  
  And in 1 Corinthians 12:12
  
  And in Romans 12:5
  
  Ben it was not God that spoke to your cousin George.
  
  Mike
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  sandra rinckposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Imagine that, brother against brother. hmmm....why would God intend for this?
  
  Who spoke to cousing George then????
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  Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  I don't believe in god or jesus, so I can only imagine how frustrated you feel.
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  mohitmisraposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Too much ego-like the saying goes empty vessels make the most noise
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  aka-djposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Glad to answer your question, I say
  "I beleive there is a God"
  At least I stay true to myself, without making outlandish blanket statements.
  
  As I said in an earlier post, you can find resources to support your stance
  I have ample that supports mine.
  
  Thanks for the discussion.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  My pleasure.
  
  I don't need any resources to support my stance. I believe!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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  aka-djposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  That's cool!
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aka-djposted 16 years ago
Just a straight answer will do. No-one wants empty rhetoric!
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aka-djposted 16 years ago
Awh, come on Mark, don't bail out on me now!
I'm wearing my refresh button out.
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Mark Knowlesposted 16 years ago
I am looking back through this thread for my last answer
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aka-djposted 16 years ago
I am being as accurate as I can be.
Please state, for the record, that you CANNOT say "god does not exist".
You are free to say " I don not believe that god exists".
The two are not the same thing.

PS I did not ask you to prove His (or her according to you and others) non-existance.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  God does not exist.
  
  Please prove otherwise.
  
  Any time...........
  
  And I am still looking for the last post I made as to why so that I do not have to write it all out again. It is not a short post.
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  aka-djposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you.
  
  Finally I have found someone who knows ALL there is to know!!!!
  Is there anything you DON'T know?
  From now on, I will be sure to ask you any questions I have about anything at all.
  Look foreward to a few interesting answers.
  
  I really must go to sleep.
  Catch y'all later
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Mark Knowlesposted 16 years ago
My point is, of course, that the only reason I need to say "god does not exist" is if you say "god does exist,"

Y'all started it.

And your argument that you cannot say anything at all doesn't exist because it is not possible to know everything will not hold water.

I do not need to know EVERYTHING to know this.
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Ben Bushposted 16 years ago
It'a great to start the morning observing the love oozing forth from the heart of religious ????????

I will leave the question marks for anyone to fill in. I wouldn't want to be accused of intolerance and judgment. I will abandon that responsibility for everyone else to exercise in proper self examination.

Now that I have fulfilled my own self righeousness spiritual exercise for the morning, I am eager to observe more "genuine Christian" love found only on the forums of Hub Pages.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  You and I think a lot alike
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  Ben Bushposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  If you think that you can shake me out of my self-righteousness with such a disconcerting thought, think again!
  
  I must admit, though, that the very idea that a Texas theist and an English Atheist thinking alike approaches the level of "earth shattering."
  
  Spiritual and Mental Blinders are essential tools when contemplating such universally and mutually exclusive concepts.
  
  Back to the pursuit of the Truth.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Oh yes - sorry, I wasn't thinking. I am supposed to hate all christians
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  Ben Bushposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  There's hope for you yet, Mark!
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sandra rinckposted 16 years ago
Hi Ben,

How about using the term, in the spirit of truth, as opposed to "the truth".
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  Ben Bushposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  What is your reason for your request?
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  sandra rinckposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  because you say you have the truth, or exuse me know the truth but you also agreed that the bible is not a reliable resource. But you also say that you get the truth from the bible.
  
  So to make yourself not sound like a liar, you could say, in the spirit of truth. as you well know it is also in the bible that we continually look for it, but since you are so sure that you know the exact truth, then you must be God.
  
  Should I bow down right now or will you decline because you want to look like Jesus. lol.
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  Ben Bushposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Actually, instead of "in the spirit of truth," I could say "The Spirit of Truth."
  
  In order to not sound like a liar, let me say the following.
  
  I did not say that the Bible is not a reliable source. There are, however, some translations and versions which have not been reliably translated from the best and most consistent copies available. That is much different than saying that the Bible is not a reliable source.
  
  I can acknowledge that I do know a certain amount of "exact" truth.
  
  Do I know enough to be God. Sorry, in spite of your confidence in me, I fall woefully short. It is on that basis that I must humbly deny your request to bow before me.
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  sandra rinckposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  fair disclosure, but how do you know which ones are reliable?
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  Ben Bushposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Sandra, in fairness to Mark, I'll defer that question for now. The answer to that question would probably create a whole new firestorm of "love" to meticulously sort through. Maybe on another forum or hub.
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lionswhelpposted 16 years ago
Is there an after life? Of course there is because Jesus Christ died for all of us, even the Atheist! That's the Good News of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. You may not believe now but that's okay because many are called but few are chosen at this time. There is a time in the future when all who do not understand will be given their first chance to really understand why we are all here.

Take a look at the Holy Bible and you will find the perfect answer for you. See, Revelation 20:11-15. Do not be discouraged most humans do not have the slightest idea about what God has done and is doing to them. Son and daughtership is the answer in 2 Corinthians 6:17-18. But don't worry even if you don't have the slightess idea of who God is you will find out and be given the offer of eternal life if you first repent and receive the Holy Spirit to help you, Acts 2:38. You will have time to work out your salvation then for about 100 years. This world will be very changed by then. No more Satan the Devil and his demons to deceive you, Revelations 12:9, Revelations 20:1-3. No more wars no more death, that is unless you chose death over eternal life. Death will happen to all unrepentant humans who refuse to believe God the Father's offer to you given freely by Jesus Christ's life for you.

Now is a good time to get in on the first resurrection! This will not be to easy because it will mean overcoming the wiles of Satan the Devil and all the stuff he will use to try and destroy you with. Atheism is just another ploy by Satan to confuse you. But be of good Cheer, Jesus Christ has overcome Satan and the wicked ways of this world for you, John 16:33. All you have to do is ask God Almighty in the best way that you can try ,but if you are not called now you might suffer gruesome physical death at this time.

But don't worry you are more than redeemable because you are very important to God's Family and they will show you the way and the truth through Jesus Christ, John 14:1-7. God hates sin but loves the sinner who has been deceived by it. Draw near to God, I now this is hard for someone who is proud of being an atheist, but then God will draw near to you, James 4:4-10. You may have to wait now,but God is Faithful and will open the door of eternal life to you sometime in your lifetime.

The Lionswhelp
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viralprospectorposted 16 years ago
Ben;

I have been watching your writing on this forum with amazement. You have an unbelievably high opinion of yourself. You use that as a weapon against Christians, but not atheists. That does indeed show your true colors, not that it is necessarily right or wrong. It is just what it is. You use some blanket to cover Christians with stupidity and hypocracy. Yet, I see no such prejudice against atheists. Those are my opinions, and I already know you disagree with me, so don't bother me to tell me that.

This boils down to a person's fruit, as you have expressed yourself. You are very boastful of your fruit, in my opinion. I would like you to enumerate that fruit for me. I have never seen any. What do you accomplish that is good, Ben? Why are you so arrogant (as I see it)?

There is no need for a disseration on the state of the world, according to Ben. Just list what good things you produce.
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  Ben Bushposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  You are right. Those are strictly opinions. Especially the part about prejudice. And even more so about the stupidity and hypocrisy.
  
  But, for the purpoose of illustration, I'll grant you the idea that I've covered Christians with the blanket of stupidity and hypocrisy. Soooooo...............if a Christian says something that is stupid and/or hypocritical, is it somehow wrong for someone to point that out, especially from a purely Scriptural standpoint? Orrrrr................have Christians been granted some type of special dispensation by God to act stupid and hypocritical on His behalf, especially toward the infidels, atheists, agnostics and morons? Is God somehow glorified by stupid and hypocritical behavior by His People toward those He died for???
  
  Please tell me why I should cover atheists with the blanket of stupidity and hypocrisy? Is it really my responsibility to do that as a Child of God?
  
  Besides, there seems to be plenty of Christians spreading that blanket on these forums without me jumping in and judging the world.
  
  And besides, Paul tells us to judge those that are in our own group (1 Cor. 5:12-13), not those outside the Body of Christ, aka Atheists, infidels, agnostics, morons, etc.
  
  So, once again, if you want to go against the clear teaching of Scripture, you have free will to do so on these forums. Just don't whine when I exercise my free will to obey God and nail your stupid and hypocritical hide to the wall.
  
  I would appreicate it if you would provide a few examples of me "boasting of my fruit."
  
  I fail to see the value of me "enumerating my fruit" on this or any other forum. In fact, Scripture addresses this issue very clearly. 2Cor. 10:12, "For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise."
  
  Also Proverbs 27:2, "Let another man praise you, and not your own mouth; a stranger, and not your own lips."
  
  I'm sorry if conducting myself pursuant to Scripture constitutues arrogance on my part.
  
  If you'd like, though, I can take your jawbone and strike those atheists and infidels hip and thigh in the name of Jesus. That should prove to you whose side I'm on!
  
  VP
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viralprospectorposted 16 years ago
Mark;

As to your question of war of Allshookup, war is not a Christian event. It is a national event.
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Thinkaboutit77posted 16 years ago
Atheism rules?

It's not wise or logical to call oneself an "atheist" because the word atheist means "no God".

But you can not PROVE a universal negative which atheism is, unless you have all the knowledge of the universe. I think Atheism is built on pride because Atheists (though sincere and usually very well mannered) are assuming they have all the knowledge in the universe to say FOR SURE that there is no God.

Atheism is just another word for "pride" and pride is how Lucifer fell in the Bible. He said in his heart, "there is no God" but because that leaves a vacuum, Lucifer filled that vacuum and said to himself "there is no God but myself" and that's what led to his downfall.

Atheists today basically say the same thing. They say "there's no God but mankind" and that philosophy then leads to "there's no God but strong mankind, those that have evolved better than others" and that ultimately leads to the devaluaing of human life and ethnic cleansing and inhumane experiments on the weak, poor and those considered "not normal or different".

The other name for unbelief is Agnostics. But Agnostic in latin means "ignoramus" .

Either way, with all due respect, to be an Atheist or an Agnostic is to be a fool. This is exactly why God says, only "the fool says in his heart, there is no God" (Psalm 14:1).
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  Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  If your ability to interpret the bible is as good as your ability to understand the meaning and etymology of the words "a-theist" and "a-gnostic" it is no wonder you talk the way you do.
  
  May I recommend the Oxford English dictionary as a good starting point.
  
  And prefacing insults with the words "with all due respect," does not make them any less an insult.
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  Paragliderposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  It is true that it is logically impossible to prove nonexistence. But it is also logically impossible to prove the existence of god.
  So ask yourself this - would the word 'atheist' ever have come into use if people had not previously insisted on the existence of god? No-one denies being a turnip unless someone first calls him one.
  You are wholly wrong in your assertion that atheism leads to ethnic cleansing, just as you are wholly wrong in saying that 'agnostic' means ignoramus in Latin. Atheism is not just another word for pride. In fact, there's very little substance in anything you said. Sorry to sound negative
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Mark Knowlesposted 16 years ago
I don't think he's interested in a discussion. He does that. Drops by, leaves some stuff and then disappears. He dropped the self same post on another thread. You should read his hubs

He even started a documentary style discussion show. At least he's honest about that. He says it is "just another way to get the truth of the Word of God out to the public," rather than a discussion show.
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Paragliderposted 16 years ago
No worries - I only answered because I thought you weren't around!
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Mark Knowlesposted 16 years ago
I will defend "Atheism Rules !" to the death.

You have to wonder where some people get this stuff though. I mean - just about every part of his statement was factually incorrect. (Except maybe the part about me being a fool ) But I only let certain people call me a fool. And it is usually the ones who actually love me, rather than say they love everyone.
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Make Moneyposted 16 years ago
What you seem to forget Sandra is that this is a discussion forum, not a war. You seem to be calling for an end to the way a lot of people live more than anyone.

I don't know but it wasn't God that told George Bush to make war like he claimed a few years back. Why is Dubya your "cousing" too?
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  sandra rinckposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  sure....and I said war how many times that suggest that I in anyways call for "war". maybe you have me confused with ASU or maybe even yourself.
  
  I was asking a question about why you say God didn't speak to George? To me is seems that only people who regergitate the Bible are the only ones who have heard God. Why?
  
  And end to the way a lot of people live??? How so?
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DNKStoreposted 16 years ago
Love the spirit of fun in which you have created this discussion Mark!
Sorry I found it so late!

Let's just say my reason for believing in God is the same reason for your being an Atheist: Because I want to!

In the end though, I would rather have lived all my life with a belief that in no way harmed me, but rather made of me a better person, than to discover after death that I had lived all my life with a belief that doomed me to eternal torment.

Cheers!
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  Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Keeping it fun is proving difficult sometimes
  
  Like the threats of "doomed to eternal torment," if I don't agree with people. What a great guy this god of yours is
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aka-djposted 16 years ago
I must apologise to all of you reading/contributing to this forum.
I actually took it seriously at first. I just figured it out, it's actually a fun thread.
I am enjoying being part of it now.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Well, it was certainly started with the intention of having some fun as well as being a serious discussion. This has certainly proven difficult to maintain. Most christians seem to say "Well, I don't need to read this thread, I already know it is full of god-hating lies," and get stuck in. I am glad you are now enjoying it.
  
  As to your other comment about the universe creating itself from nothing, I am sure that a magical super-being, who will doom you to eternal torment if you don't believe in him speaking it into existence from nothing is far more likely
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aka-djposted 16 years ago
WooHoo.
There may be some hope for you yet!
I like it Mr Knowles!
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aka-djposted 16 years ago
Hey Mo.
My "experience" shows that the gods of religions (name any you want) are NOT the same. The God of the Bible is described in very specific and clear terms. Then compare that to the teachings of other religions, He would have to be schitzo.... with several personalities.
I DON'T THINK SO!
I don't want to change your view, nor to make lite of this, but you need to seriously compare, before you put them in that light.
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  prakash.painoliposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  I know Mohit and he is enlightened and knows what he is talking about.
  There is forget God there is.
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  sandra rinckposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  May the schwartz be with you. to Jedi star ship, one must go. lol.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  I have to say, I almost wet my pants laughing at this.
  
  Come on Mo - you can do better than that
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  mohitmisraposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  This is one person saying enlightenment,today there are probably lakhs who understand.Why would my book get ranked 1 in the world till date in Religious poetry books?
  You keep laughing since thats all you can do.Getting ranked over Khalil Gibran,Rumi,Shakespeare etc is really a big joke for you,isnt it ?
  An atheist comes to a religious forum and laughs at a religious poet-nice.
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  mohitmisraposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Vibhu-you made it. Let me brief you about this forum.There are many nice and intelligent people here and it has been a pleasure debating with them,its obvious they are seekers.Then there are a few serious jerks with no or very little knowledge and will hate you for your knowledge.ying-yang
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  mohitmisraposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Hi aka dj -could you please go to my hubs and have a look at my poem Religions,you will get a better idea about Religions.Cannot post the link here.You will see I have done my research.
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  aka-djposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks for the poem. I don't doubt you have done your research. I was specifically refering to the inconsistency regarding all god/gods being the same. They clearly are not.
  I mean, the Hindus rever multiple deities, thousands of them. Budhists deify none. Muslims worship Allah, the Jews, Jehova. And Christians, Jesus, the Son of God (Jehova). And last, but not least, The Force, from Star Wars. (not completely funny) It is presented as an impersonal force, both good and bad.
  It is totally illogical! Someone can't be personal, and impersonal, singular and multiple, knowable and unknowable etc, all at the same time.
  I mean, they accuse Christians of being irrational, come on.
  One last thought. If God of the Bible is none other than the Jewish/Christian version of the Muslim's Allah, what kind of Being is He.
  He tells Jews and Christians to turn the other cheek, love their enemies, not to bear false witness (lie). Then he tells the Muslims, kill your enemies, hate your enemies, lie if you have to, just to further the cause?
  If people mix all this up, no wonder there's confusion. What hope is there?
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  mohitmisraposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Bramha, Allah, Jevovah, Vishnu, Ahuramazda, Shiva...
  
  What’s in a name?
  A way to identify the same,
  Geography, language is mainly to blame.
  
  Your glory is such,
  Man asks for too much.
  
  Dont make all Muslims out to be killers or terrorists,the same can be said by the Muslims about the Christians.There have been many Prophets but there is only one God the light-Love.
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  Eng.Mposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  God asks muslims to defend their religion, themselves and lands.
  he doesn't ask them to attack anyone.
  it is normal to kill your enemy if it wants to do the same.
  but killing innocent people is insane and that doesn't need a religion but logic to understand.
  crazy people is everywhere but the media wants you to hate islam because it is controlled by powers those have political and ideological needs.
  
  the qustion is , do humans have time to know the truth or they are so busy enjoying their lives to do so ?
  
  best regards
  
  note: google Karen Armestrong
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  aka-djposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  I don't think you really read what I wrote.
  The only point I tried to make is that, calling the same god by all those names is wrong.
  There is actually a tremmendous amount in a name. It's lost a lot of that in our culture.
  If you do a Google search for names and their nmeanings, you will find sites dedicated to that very subject. The Bible gives dozens of names to God, and each one describes one aspect of His nature/character.
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  Eng.Mposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  yes , you are right. I jusr read the last post where you says that God has changed his mind.
  I was just responding to that my friend.
  God decides what is good for every nation and sets the rules according to that.
  
  I agree with you that names describe his natures but what matters is that we realize there is a perfect power which has given everything in life.
  
  names doesn't matter so much if you know what you are calling.
  
  Allah in islam means the only God.
  he is the creator.
  we know there is a creator and we know he is one because of the similar structure of everything.
  in this case, just pray for the creator and don't give him names if you want.
  
  religions come as a final stage of trying to understand God's nature.
  they make everything clear to us.
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  mohitmisraposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Here also God is often reffered to an enlightened one like Jesus.But all come from the source the Light the One God. From god comes all.
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Mishaposted 16 years ago
Have to agree with you guys

Mo, you definitely look better in your previous instance
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sandra rinckposted 16 years ago
Thought I would lighten up the atheism rules thread with some thoughts. Oh yes, she back, Sandy infamous random but funny thoughts.

A foolish one is one who lights his touch in the daylight and says, "look how glorious my light is follow me for surely I know the way."

A wise one lights his tourch in the dark and say to the man who is fool, "now surely a light lit in the dark has more purpose for I am certain now I can see what was hidden in the dark."

The fool continues to say, "but all that is light is truly beautiful."

The wise replies, yes but your tourch light seems rather dim in the daylight.

Hope you enjoyed it as much as I enjoyed thinking it up.
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Mishaposted 16 years ago
That would be a topic for meditation
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DNKStoreposted 16 years ago
Aww C'mon Mark,
Ya gotta laugh.
Think about it, who else but the human animal could get so self-righteously indignant about his own belief system? No other creature on the planet does this!! All other creatures fight over is resources or territory. Solid, concrete objects that at least have a basis in material reality.

Man, on the other hand, starts devastating, species-wide wars over intangible electrochemical reactions in his own brain called beliefs!!

Ya gotta laugh, it's just too ridiculous!

The very fact that we cannot disagree without indignation calls into question the very validity of our belief!

But then what do I know, I have no university degrees, I am just an uneducated slob who happens to like people whether they agree with me or not!

:-0 :-)
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Mark Knowlesposted 16 years ago
DNK -

I am laughing at the whole absurdity of it. Especially when many people arguing are saying they are arguing from god's word, or from "being enlightened."

Of course it is funny.
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lionswhelpposted 16 years ago
Dear Positive Atheist,

The very fact that you have a human body that breaths air is proof of God Almighties handy work. How wonderful and unique you are. In the beginning Elohim made us in their image, Genesis 1:26-27. God the Father made all things through Jesus Christ and the holy Spirit, John 1:1-3; Job 33:4. It is through Jesus Christ you will be saved because he is the way and the truth, John 14:6-7.

There are many humans like you around who do not believe in God the Creator but this is to be expected for many are called at this time but few are chosen. So continue to group for the door of sanity until you find what life is all about. Atheism is just another human crutch to buoy you up in a deceived world, Revelation 12:9.

Don't worry God will show you the way but because now you do not care to ask,knock and seek , Matthew 7:7-8. An atheist like you will have to wait and miss out being in the Millenium in the better Resurrection. This way of Jesus the Christ is the best way.

Yes, I know that there are many that claim to follow Jesus and do contrary to what He taught, Matthew 22:37-40; Matthew 15:7-9. This is the only way that will work. All of God's Commandment are the Way of Righteousness, Psalm 119:172. Try this way and you will not have to continually grope in the dark like a blind man. Are you happy in your self? You can be happier if you are looking for Jesus Christ return, Revelation 22:7,12-16. Atheist are living a lie and no lie is of the truth but someday it wil be revealed to you, John 8:44-47. You just are not of God yet. How clever Satan is in deceiving you, but he will lose, Revelations 12:9 & 20:1-3.

On the positive side you can still be a winner because you too will be given your time to repent and be saved because Jesus Christ Yahshua died for you too. But that will be your choice if you want to be in the book of Life, Revelation 20:15. There is a great time to look ahead too when all will be God the Father's Sons and Daughters, 2 Corinthians 6:17-18 and be living forever. Thank God for Positive Christians, Revelation 21:1-8. Check these things out but if they still do not make sense to you it is because your unbelief keeps you blind to the truth and the Way, John 14:6-7,15.

The Lionswhelp a Positive Christian
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viralprospectorposted 16 years ago
Lionswhelp

You wrote, "There is a great time to look ahead too when all will be God the Father's Sons and Daughters, 2 Corinthians 6:17-18 and be living forever." That is pretty much exactly the opposite of what that passage means. The Bible is very specific of what attributes are necessary to be saved. Remember that the road is narrow.

Only Jesus can say who is saved. You have absolutely no business in predicting who will be God's sons and daughters and be living together. Leave that to Jesus.

A positive Christian is great as long as it is an accurate Christian.
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Mark Knowlesposted 16 years ago
All, I can say is thank you all for proving my point.

Atheism Rules !
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dingdongposted 16 years ago
Atheism Rules!

Glad to see it's going on and in page 71 now
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daeemominposted 16 years ago
By Dr. Zakir Naik
CONGRATULATING AN ATHEIST
Normally, when I meet an atheist, the first thing I like to do is to congratulate him and say, " My special congratulations to you", because most of the people who believe in God are doing blind belief - he is a Christian, because his father is a Christian; he is a Hindu, because his father is a Hindu; the majority of the people in the world are blindly following the religion of their fathers. An atheist, on the other hand, even though he may belong to a religious family, uses his intellect to deny the existence of God; what ever concept or qualities of God he may have learnt in his religion may not seem to be logical to him.
My Muslim brothers may question me, "Zakir, why are you congratulating an atheist?" The reason that I am congratulating an atheist is because he agrees with the first part of the Shahada i.e. the Islamic Creed, ‘La ilaaha’ - meaning ‘there is no God’. So half my job is already done; now the only part left is ‘il lallah’ i.e. ‘BUT ALLAH’ which I shall do Insha Allah. With others (who are not atheists) I have to first remove from their minds the wrong concept of God they may have and then put the correct concept of one true God.
LOGICAL CONCEPT OF GOD

My first question to the atheist will be: "What is the definition of God?" For a person to say there is no God, he should know what is the meaning of God. If I hold a book and say that ‘this is a pen’, for the opposite person to say, ‘it is not a pen’, he should know what is the definition of a pen, even if he does not know nor is able to recognise or identify the object I am holding in my hand. For him to say this is not a pen, he should at least know what a pen means. Similarly for an atheist to say ‘there is no God’, he should at least know the concept of God. His concept of God would be derived from the surroundings in which he lives. The god that a large number of people worship has got human qualities - therefore he does not believe in such a god. Similarly a Muslim too does not and should not believe in such false gods.
If a non-Muslim believes that Islam is a merciless religion with something to do with terrorism; a religion which does not give rights to women; a religion which contradicts science; in his limited sense that non-Muslim is correct to reject such Islam. The problem is he has a wrong picture of Islam. Even I reject such a false picture of Islam, but at the same time, it becomes my duty as a Muslim to present the correct picture of Islam to that non-Muslim i.e. Islam is a merciful religion, it gives equal rights to the women, it is not incompatible with logic, reason and science; if I present the correct facts about Islam, that non-Muslim may Inshallah accept Islam.
Similarly the atheist rejects the false gods and the duty of every Muslim is to present the correct concept of God which he shall Insha Allah not refuse.
(You may refer to my article, ‘Concept of God in Islam’, for more details)
QUR’AN AND MODERN SCIENCE
The methods of proving the existence of God with usage of the material provided in the ‘Concept of God in Islam’ to an atheist may satisfy some but not all.
Many atheists demand a scientific proof for the existence of God. I agree that today is the age of science and technology. Let us use scientific knowledge to kill two birds with one stone, i.e. to prove the existence of God and simultaneously prove that the Qur’an is a revelation of God.
If a new object or a machine, which no one in the world has ever seen or heard of before, is shown to an atheist or any person and then a question is asked, " Who is the first person who will be able to provide details of the mechanism of this unknown object? After little bit of thinking, he will reply, ‘the creator of that object.’ Some may say ‘the producer’ while others may say ‘the manufacturer.’ What ever answer the person gives, keep it in your mind, the answer will always be either the creator, the producer, the manufacturer or some what of the same meaning, i.e. the person who has made it or created it. Don’t grapple with words, whatever answer he gives, the meaning will be same, therefore accept it.
SCIENTIFIC FACTS MENTIONED IN THE QUR’AN: for details on this subject please refer to my book, ‘THE QUR’AN AND MODERN SCIENCE – COMPATIBLE OR INCOMPATIBLE?
THEORY OF PROBABILITY
In mathematics there is a theory known as ‘Theory of Probability’. If you have two options, out of which one is right, and one is wrong, the chances that you will chose the right one is half, i.e. one out of the two will be correct. You have 50% chances of being correct. Similarly if you toss a coin the chances that your guess will be correct is 50% (1 out of 2) i.e. 1/2. If you toss a coin the second time, the chances that you will be correct in the second toss is again 50% i.e. half. But the chances that you will be correct in both the tosses is half multiplied by half (1/2 x 1/2) which is equal to 1/4 i.e. 50% of 50% which is equal to 25%. If you toss a coin the third time, chances that you will be correct all three times is (1/2 x 1/2 x 1/2) that is 1/8 or 50% of 50% of 50% that is 12½%.
A dice has got six sides. If you throw a dice and guess any number between 1 to 6, the chances that your guess will be correct is 1/6. If you throw the dice the second time, the chances that your guess will be correct in both the throws is (1/6 x 1/6) which is equal to 1/36. If you throw the dice the third time, the chances that all your three guesses are correct is (1/6 x 1/6 x 1/6) is equal to 1/216 that is less than 0.5 %.
Let us apply this theory of probability to the Qur’an, and assume that a person has guessed all the information that is mentioned in the Qur’an which was unknown at that time. Let us discuss the probability of all the guesses being simultaneously correct.
At the time when the Qur’an was revealed, people thought the world was flat, there are several other options for the shape of the earth. It could be triangular, it could be quadrangular, pentagonal, hexagonal, heptagonal, octagonal, spherical, etc. Lets assume there are about 30 different options for the shape of the earth. The Qur’an rightly says it is spherical, if it was a guess the chances of the guess being correct is 1/30.
The light of the moon can be its own light or a reflected light. The Qur’an rightly says it is a reflected light. If it is a guess, the chances that it will be correct is 1/2 and the probability that both the guesses i.e the earth is spherical and the light of the moon is reflected light is 1/30 x 1/2 = 1/60.
Further, the Qur’an also mentions every living thing is made of water. Every living thing can be made up of either wood, stone, copper, aluminum, steel, silver, gold, oxygen, nitrogen, hydrogen, oil, water, cement, concrete, etc. The options are say about 10,000. The Qur’an rightly says that everything is made up of water. If it is a guess, the chances that it will be correct is 1/10,000 and the probability of all the three guesses i.e. the earth is spherical, light of moon is reflected light and everything is created from water being correct is 1/30 x 1/2 x 1/10,000 = 1/60,000 which is equal to about .0017%.
The Qur’an speaks about hundreds of things that were not known to men at the time of its revelation. Only in three options the result is .0017%. I leave it upto you, to work out the probability if all the hundreds of the unknown facts were guesses, the chances of all of them being correct guesses simultaneously and there being not a single wrong guess. It is beyond human capacity to make all correct guesses without a single mistake, which itself is sufficient to prove to a logical person that the origin of the Qur’an is Divine.
CREATOR IS THE AUTHOR OF THE QUR’AN
The only logical answer to the question as to who could have mentioned all these scientific facts 1400 years ago before they were discovered, is exactly the same answer initially given by the atheist or any person, to the question who will be the first person who will be able to tell the mechanism of the unknown object. It is the ‘CREATOR’, the producer, the Manufacturer of the whole universe and its contents. In the English language He is ‘God’, or more appropriate in the Arabic language, ‘ALLAH’.
QUR’AN IS A BOOK OF SIGNS AND NOT SCIENCE
Let me remind you that the Qur’an is not a book of Science, ‘S-C-I-E-N-C-E’ but a book of Signs ‘S-I-G-N-S’ i.e. a book of ayaats. The Qur’an contains more than 6,000 ayaats, i.e. ‘signs’, out of which more than a thousand speak about Science. I am not trying to prove that the Qur’an is the word of God using scientific knowledge as a yard stick because any yardstick is supposed to be more superior than what is being checked or verified. For us Muslims the Qur’an is the Furqan i.e. criteria to judge right from wrong and the ultimate yardstick which is more superior to scientific knowledge.
But for an educated man who is an atheist, scientific knowledge is the ultimate test which he believes in. We do know that science many a times takes ‘U’ turns, therefore I have restricted the examples only to scientific facts which have sufficient proof and evidence and not scientific theories based on assumptions. Using the ultimate yardstick of the atheist, I am trying to prove to him that the Qur’an is the word of God and it contains the scientific knowledge which is his yardstick which was discovered recently, while the Qur’an was revealed 1400 year ago. At the end of the discussion, we both come to the same conclusion that God though superior to science, is not incompatible with it.
SCIENCE IS ELIMINATING MODELS OF GOD BUT NOT GOD
Francis Bacon, the famous philosopher, has rightly said that a little knowledge of science makes man an atheist, but an in-depth study of science makes him a believer in God. Scientists today are eliminating models of God, but they are not eliminating God. If you translate this into Arabic, it is La illaha illal la, There is no god, (god with a small ‘g’ that is fake god) but God (with a capital ‘G’).
Surah Fussilat:
"Soon We will show them our signs in the (farthest) regions (of the earth), and in their own souls, until it becomes manifest to them that this is the Truth. Is it not enough that thy Lord doth witness all things?"
[Al-Quran 41:53]
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Mark Knowlesposted 16 years ago
So, are you here to discuss, or just to tell us how it is?

I must admit, I had been hoping a well educated Muslim would turn up. Otherwise I look so one sided

Because your particular brand is no better than any of the other flavors offered
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  sandra rinckposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  He is spammerific!!!!
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  Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  I wish he wasn't. We could have done with a Muslim to balance things out a little.
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dingdongposted 16 years ago
Looks like daeemomin joined HP exclusively for this
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aka-djposted 16 years ago
It seem most obvious, that all discussions go round and round. Futile,all is futile!
IF you believe "all is god, god is all". "There is no difference from one to the other", keep believing that. The Bible says " let the wicked be wicked still, and let the righteous be righteous"!
At the end time, the (reaping) angels will reap the wheat and the tares (weeds) together.
The wheat goes into (Gods) barn, the tares (weeds) into the fire.
All men are destined for the fire. (we are all weeds), EXCEPT, ye (you all) repent, you will likewise perish (in the fire).
I can't begin to count how many ways believers have tried to make thier (our) point. Most of you are not listening!
I agree with the topic, "Atheism Rules", only so far as it rules over the atheists and all non-believers. It does NOT rule me, or over me.
Happy hubbing!
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  mohitmisraposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  I agree with you atheism rules is very limited aand will find very few takers.Imagine how much bigger it will be if someone say Christianity or Hinduism or Islam rules.
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  61
  mohitmisraposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  And if someone says God rules then it will be unstoppable
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  79
  aka-djposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  BINGO!
  I think you got it. It IS unstoppable. And I'll tell you why.
  God's will, WILL be done, whether we believe it or not. Whether we like it or not.
  It's BIGGER than all of us. I'm just trying to get my life/aligiences right.
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  61
  mohitmisraposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  You are correct and you are walking the correct path which is the important thing-the rest will fall into place automatically Exactly what I have been saying Gods will is mans destiny.
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RFoxposted 16 years ago
Wow, I'm having a strange sense of Deja Vu.

I go away for a while, come back and the Atheism Rules thread is still stirring up controversy, Mohit is still promoting his #1 book, Mark is still trading barbs with those who wish to convert him and Sandy is still spreading her love and wacky lines of wisdom.

The only thing that seems to have changed is Misha's sexy new look.

It's awesome!! Hubpages rules!

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1. 61
  mohitmisraposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  You missed out a lot at the same time nothing
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sandra rinckposted 16 years ago
I was asked a bizzar question just a little bit ago. He said; do you try to punish yourself for being beautiful?

I was thinking just about the question, not sure how to answer it, don't really know what the question is proposing or assuming.

So while going through the question, I thought, to really know someone is to allow them to make thier own assumptions.

Then I thought about Mark, and VP, when the debate was how Mark said that he sometimes antagonizes people to really know what they are like, and VP said that it wasn't a fair assumption.

So while I understood Marks statement and took no offense, I also thought about VP, and it is unfair to state a question like that because it already assumes something and both knew what the assumption was.

So I considered that a better way to put it is, I sometimes allow people to make their own assumptions, because what they conclude for themselves says a lot about a person.

So then back to the question that I was asked today; do I try to punish myself for being beautiful?

I can't seem to answer the question, what does that assume?
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1. 59
  Ben Bushposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  It could assume at least the following:
  
  That.......1. You don't know what punishment is or
  2. You don't know what beauty is or
  3. You don't know who you are.....or.....
  4. All three of the above
  
  Of course, that assumes you understood the fact that you were being asked a question.:
  
  Of course, I make this statement under the presumption that you are female.
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  0
  sandra rinckposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  lol
  
  I took a little walk to think about it for a few, what came to mind after a while is that beautiful things seem to be punished. and now second, let's say I really don't know what punishment is.
  
  What assumption does that make?
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2. 60
  Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  I'm not sure that is quite how it went
  
  I antagonize people so that I can judge the type of person they are from the reaction I get.
  
  This is not really an assumption, although I have been known to get it wrong.
  
  The trick really is the level of antagonism
  
  Overdo it and you are not getting a fair reaction, because there are some points where anyone will react badly, and so I can learn nothing. But with a little gentle prodding, an aggressive reaction, or a gentle dig back tells me a lot about where that person is coming from.
  
  As to your question.
  
  Do you think you are beautiful, and do you feel guilty about that?
  
  And I would say ugly things are just as likely to be punished as beautiful ones.........
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  sandra rinckposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  I think, more like the use of the word antagonism has its own agenda usually associated with something negitive even if I understood the meaning.
  
  I actually came to the same thought, ugly things are just as likely to be punished as beautiful ones.
  
  And the question stated the way you put it, yes and yes. Not sure why though.
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  60
  Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Would it help if I told you you were ugly? ..............
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knolyourselfposted 16 years ago
"I can't seem to answer the question, what does that assume?" Assumes that you never encountered the question before. The answer would probably in the unconscious.
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Mishaposted 16 years ago
What?! You are going to lie just to save her sanity?!
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1. 60
  Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  If that is what it takes
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Mishaposted 16 years ago
That is a real sacrifice!
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1. 60
  Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  This is the true meaning of christ. It is better to give than receive
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  61
  mohitmisraposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Who is the giver who is the reciever- both are one
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Mishaposted 16 years ago
Give lie you mean?
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1. 60
  Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this
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quicksandposted 16 years ago
WOW! I just stumbled upon this forum! Need to take a few days off to read every post. Good GOD! 73 pages and no one has come to any conclusion! Beats me!
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1. 60
  Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Of course we have come to a conclusion.
  
  Atheism Rules !
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  85
  quicksandposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Do not confuse me, I thought that was only the topic! ???
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  0
  Zarm Nefilinposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Of course we have come to a conclusion mon frere!
  
  This is the longest thread in the history of this sub-forum!
  
  Or maybe not?
  
  Pax.
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  60
  Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  
  No, I think it is the longest thread so far, bar one.
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quicksandposted 16 years ago
All of a sudden I discovered that I am fascinated by the simplicity of atheism.
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60
knolyourselfposted 16 years ago
Bar one: 'the last person to post wins' deal. But does that really count? A gimmick.
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1. 60
  Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Exactly. Atheism Rules !
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gamergirlposted 16 years ago
But why? Why does atheism rule? >.>
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1. 60
  Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Because it makes sense.
  
  But more importantly, it makes you 100% responsible for your actions. I cannot say - "well, my book says this," or "God did this, therefore I have to do this."
  
  I hold myself responsible for me. No one else. No higher power. No prophet who's words I twist. Just me.
  
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gamergirlposted 16 years ago
Sounds reasonable enough to me!
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1. 60
  Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  And who are you exactly?
  
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  92
  gamergirlposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Ohhhhh boy. Mark's saved my face forever. I was a devil for my company's Halloween costume contest.
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  60
  Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Wasn't going to let this one get away
  
  A devil, or the devil?
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knolyourselfposted 16 years ago
Sounds like two converts on just this one page. Whatsup?
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gamergirlposted 16 years ago
Ohh, see, I'm one of those crazy girls who beats her own drum and gives homage to a mother-type spirit as a path of serenity and devotion, but you won't find me proselytizing or any other big word meaning shoving things down other people's throats - and I'm well aware that my beliefs are an appeal to emotion rather than reason, but I'm also aware I could be very wrong and that the essence of that which I hold close to my heart as a sort of patron Godlike being could just be my own imagination, and for the most part is!

I think I just confused myself, so I'm going to go over there - points - and hope my head stops spinning..
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92
gamergirlposted 16 years ago
A devil, my immediate supervisor was the devil, complete with awesome horns, three piece suit and stogie.
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1. 60
  Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Well, knowing the industry you work in, I don't want to know about the horns..........
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gamergirlposted 16 years ago
On the head that has two eyes, two ears and a mouth, thank you! I'll email you a photobucket link to the full picture of our department.
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60
Mark Knowlesposted 16 years ago
I look forward to it
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