Atheism Rules !
- sandra rinckposted 17 years ago
0Did I tell anyone my new religion?
Well, I am a polyatheist. LOL.
) Means there are many gods you don't believe in?
Looks like that, Mark. Any Christian who does not believe in FSM is an atheist, as well as anyone who does not believe in our fourfold Godhead!
Damned atheists - should be burned at the stake.
I am still waiting for the latest addition to the conversation to explain how Douglas Adams said his atheism was a religion rather than being based on the fact that god doesn't exist.
It's a fact that god doesn't exist. People keep on saying "yes he does," will not make that fact change. LOLwell, none the less God is neither fact or fiction. There aren't enough facts to support or reject God. But at least your a nice atheist Mark!
Well, there you go. The problem with arguing in writing, is the fact that what you said is there in black and white for all to read. You did not refer to atheism as a religion. This is what you actually said:
And you did not address that.
I am quite prepare to say the following:
I do not believe in your god, which I assume is one of the christian gods?
I do not believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
I do not believe in Zeus.
I do not believe there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq before the invasion.
I do not believe in the Easter Bunny.
I do not believe in Santa Claus.
And I honestly see no difference whatsoever between any of these. Some are more benign than others, but the proof is the same. Zero.
As far as I am concerned, it is a fact that none of these exist. Because I see no proof for the existence of any of them. I guess I could say, like Mr. Adams, that I am convinced they do not exist. But that is really splitting hairs.
If you, or anyone else would care to present me with some proof, I will happily change my tune. As yet, this has failed to happen.
There are certain things I would accept as proof. And I am pretty open as to what I would accept. Should I be whisked off to meet the Elves in the South Pole, and share a cup of hot chocolate with Santa Claus, I could go for that.
Should I happen to watch a believer swallow a cup of poison and survive. I could go with that one. Better still, walking on water. That would be pretty cool. Even better - moving a mountain. I like that one.
Any time you are ready to do all the things that Jesus said a true believer could do, I am open to being a witness, and changing my tune. I will even provide the poison.
I don't understand why you would think that not believing in something because there is no evidence for it is a religion? I mean, I don't wear magic underpants. Or pretend to eat the flesh of my savior. Or sacrifice animals in the name of whatever god is popular this week. How is that a religion?
The only reason I need to say I don't believe in something that doesn't exist is because someone else says it does. If no one was telling me it exists all the time, I would keep quiet about it.
I can honestly say, I do not think I can prove something does not exist. Can you? Can you prove that the Easter bunny does not exist? In the face of some one who insists it does. Without any evidence or proof? There are no facts that the Easter bunny does not exist. Other than the complete and utter absence of proof that it does. Just because it is not possible to prove the non-existence of the Easter Bunny, does not automatically prove it does exist. So , in the absence of any evidence of the existence of the Easter bunny, would you say it is a fact that it does not exist, or you are convinced it does not. Unless, of course, you are here to argue in favor of the Easter Bunny?
The onus here is to prove something does exist. Not the other way round.
Still waiting to hear how Douglas Adams said his was a religion.
In your own time.Proof !
- sandra rinckposted 17 years ago0
Well you see, I went to the south pole last easter to celebrate groundhogs day. It was pretty interesting.
No, I saw a camel dancing the jig on a sheet of ice in the middle of the dessert. LOL.
Just one more thread re-charged
It looks as though it took topstuff several months to come up with a circular argument for Thom to consider
Hey Peter
How is the bundle of joy doing?Busy
But enjoying my new job also.
The south of France turns into a mad house this time of year though, so I am keeping my head down until September lolIn addition to
We are now launching a bunch of new video related sites and another site that I can't talk about just yet
Take a look at one of the video sites (still in in beta, but soon
http://beta.fairwayproperties.com/LuxNi … ome.actionlol
Give it timeI certainly hope so.
I will "pray" for you- sandra rinckposted 16 years ago0
Continued...
Ok I still question both theism and atheism. I want to say I am still agnostic or gnostic (don't care how anyone defines the terms because even those have a bunch of different ideas behind them) so this is what I think.
I think that my idea of God can no longer be termed God in which case I do need to find a new name because no matter how many times I try to say that my idea of God is not the same as any God of any religion, people still choose to say what I think for me.
So, I do not believe in God, I believe in something else. I am almost ready to say I am an atheist however according to atheism, as far as I know so far with it's many different interpretations as well, I cannot ignore some things that I have seen that not even science can explain, while what I have seen does not defy the laws of nature, at the same time it was something that cannot be explained yet by the laws of nature. If that makes any sense. So in short, there is something.
So for anyone who ever actually wondered (which no one ever really asked) I defined God as the "law" of nature perhapes, or the laws of thoughts, or in general, the infallable part of existance however not to be confused with any religous God because I absolutly do not believe in the Christian God at all!
It is not a math equation but more like the reason 1+1 always equals 2, why? I don't friggin know it just does. Behind that is my God. My God (or something yet to have a better name) is not physics, we know why things orbit, we know about gravity and magnatism and the correalis (sorry I am a horrible speller) effect and why birds can fly, why fish breath under water and that dolphins use to live on land, why turtles and cockroaches have managed to stand the test of time, the earth is not flat, our Sun is a star and there are so many planets out there and things beyond our own Galexy that we can never touch but we know that they are there.
So while God is not any of those things, it is (to me) the blue print of existance. It does not require intellegence or chance but just "is". So we could have no reason to exist however I think it is way to extrodinary that we do and have the uncanny ability to make things to use our resources to build or destroy things using our brains and our hands. Shute, we aren't even confined to Earth anymore which leads me to believe that there is other life somewhere out there in the Universe.
If there isn't then I would say we are special because we are the beginning of intellegent life or that we are (while not morally) perfect "beings". Do we need God for this?
I know by religous ideas that I do not need God. I do not need to be saved and I definitely do not need a mediator to make contact or understand what I know that God is but cannot define with words. It is a word that doesn't even exist yet but exist in something that I cannot quite put my finger on. Make sense yet, probabaly not the religous folks.
I would buy that our bodies or the first origins of life came from the water, but behind that I can say that we did not even originate from Earth itself as water did not originate from Earth and Earth itself is still young compared to the Universe and whatever else there is out there just waiting to be found, like the Jewels of Heaven.
Anyways, I want to say I am an atheist but I cannot because I do not believe we came by chance or that there is not a reason to exist. I strongly feel like we exist for a reason and that reason is because the Universe would be a waste (so to speak) if we weren't here.
That said, I still really believe we are special, in someway I do believe that we were "made" just not by the creationist perspective. I do not believe in a All powerful God that will send you to hell if you do not comply with the commandments etc., or that God is an intellegent spirit of sorts, but I do believe that whatever God is or whatever reasons there were behind this fiasco we live in today, that it is the "blue print" or simply, "it is" to exist. No need to define the reason we exist or how it all came to be because it is a question that will always bring forth one more question in a circle of sorts just like everything else, it has no answers it just is.
No longer do I believe in the "I AM", but now "It Is". That is it. We have only one life, that is the one we live in today but also that we never really die, by that I mean nothing in existence is brought out of existance, everything in the Universe remains in the Universe to I do believe that while we may not come back as human beings or anything living for that matter, that we are part of the infinate blueprint that "it is" and everything remains forever.
I abosultely do not believe that the Universe die, more like reshape or something because where would it go? Do you think that we can actually answer that? I don't.
Ok rambling on and on. LOL Sandy, I think many of us are in similar position - we do think there is something beyond our level of comprehension, and it seems only logical to call that something a god - but as soon as we do so, people immediately assume we are talking about this guy up on the cloud.
BTW, if I remember correctly (I never been a big fan of labels), I think the fundamental difference between gnostics and agnostics is that former think this something can be comprehended, while later think it is always beyond what we possibly can comprehend. Not such a big difference in the context of your post
As for 1+1=2 it is not always so. For example, 1 gallon of water and 1 gallon of sugar will probably make something like 1.5 gallons of sweet water. Or 1 human + 1 human often equals 1 family, or 3, 4, 5, or more humans down the roadyawn. You go and get your reward, no one is stopping you.
At least Atheists can spell.
And what exactly have you done? Because I have a feeling accepting Jesus Christ as your personal savior and then behaving poorly is not going to cut it.
I remember hearing a little 4 or 5 year old girl say,
Girls rule and boys drool. Na nah, na nah, na, nah.
That is what the title of this thread reminded me of.
I don't need to waste my time reading through all the posts.
It would be just the same old, same old.
Same old crap from the same old God haters.I agree with you its a joke.
Thanks for the input Mo. You don't need to read anything either I guess ?
Education - it's a wonderful thing.
You should try it some day
I must admit you are helping to persuade me I am correct. All the time people such as yourself are so aggresive, nasty and insulting to others - you are convincing me there is no such thing as a god.
Thank you.Mark, You have a legitimate point about the attitude and actions of those espousing a belief in Jesus Christ and/or God. Modern "Christians" have had a problem actually living out the words they read in the Bible.
But the lack of a consistency shouldn't and doesn't change anything when it comes to the actual existence of God or the veracity of the Bible. True, it does damage and/or hinder the propagation of the "Good News" of Jesus Christ, but in no way does that change the Gospel.
Personally, I have experienced some of this trashy attitude and behavior simply because I didn't conform to the expectations of someone else or their particular creed. My response has been that when I die, I will give account to a Holy God according to His clear Word, not according to the thoughts and dictates of a man or system of thought. Therefore, I will attempt to listen to the words of the Bible when it comes to the life lived for Christ and live those words.
Do I perform those words perfectly? Not yet, but the life I live is far different than that lived years ago. While not caught up in a lifestyle that was immoral, I nevertheless, was far from perfect. The shortcomings were evident the more I studied Scripture. I have seen the Word of God in my heart worked outward in a changed life, changes God has promised in His Word to perform from the inside out, changes which go far beyond mere reformation.
Part of the reason for this progressive work is the outward witness of the God I serve to those who don't know Him. While not being perfect myself, I nevertheless can speak to others of that which God has done within me. Yes I am greatly responsible for my actions before others when claiming the name of Christ, so due diligence is required to accompany any zeal exhibited by me toward others.
While I am not ultimately responsible for "convincing" you or anyone else of Truth, I can live and act in a way which doesn't exhibit Truth. At that point, I can legitmately be considered a hypocrite, a stage actor. At that point, my words are nothing more than that, mere words with no substance.
If you are ever in Texas, let me know. I would enjoy meeting you personally and having a face to face conversation. There's also the possibility that private accommodations can be provided during a portion of your stay. Maybe we can actually do a little concrete work together. (I can honestly say that I've never worked with an English Atheist! Maybe I can purchase some of those super Jesus sandals you have in the works!
I think Mohit before you are quick to understand the atheist, you should probabaly read about it and even you may find that you also fit into the catagory of somewhat athiest.
I mean, your view of God is somewhat of an energy light form etc. right? You don't exactly fit into the Christain catolog of acceptable people. Of course don't take my word for it.I was an atheist till the age of twenty four before I got enlightened but I never went out of my way to ridicule those who believed in God .
The Christian viewpoint or name for the Light is the Holy Spirit. :
I would just stay away froma Relgious congregationYet now you are "enlightened," you ridicule those who do not believe.
And you do not need to read this thread because you already know it is full of "god-hating" without reading any of it.
Interesting, this enlightenment.
Thank you once again.Meditate and wake up- you are just fooling yourself and no one else.
The thing is I do not go out of my way to redicule those who believe in God, I go out of my way to stop those who believe in God, from demonizing those who don't.
Because in truth I do not have anything againts people who are spiritual to any peaceful extent, however I have something against those who are spiritual who defend by force which is something that is wrong by all means, whether believing in a supernatural God or not.It is my duty to uphold the truth and protect religions,the prophets and religious people.They are being bullied here.On a Religious forum a Christian is not allowed to praise Jesus or his Religion -incredible. If he or she does they are called names
need to protect them .I have a lot of respect for Jesus and will defend him. You have yet to come across the Light so you will not be able to understand me right now
Hey Ben -
I will certainly drop you a line next time I head to Texas. I must admit I had an "interesting" time there the last time I passed through. If you ever get up to the panhandle, see if you can find the "Barbed Wire Museum." and home to the "National barbed wire collectors association." Trippy I can't remember the name of the town, but I was the third visitor that year.
We agree on many things, you and I. But let us for a moment say that we have both chosen to change the way we choose to live. And I too try and live a live that is positive and offers all the "christian" values to those around me. (Except for the war-mongering)
Yet I do not believe in god or christ.
What does that mean?it really relieves me to talk about issues like how we came and to where we go.
Where he comes from,where he goes?
We have no tangible prrof that shows.
The masters say there is a holy light,
In the beginning and during out last flight.
Atheism Rules, does it !
Famous atheist is stumped - He avoids answering the question
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MX7Htg2HxkA
Famous atheists last words before dying
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fSFGrhsBpM
A Dying Man's Last Words, A Message From God
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TeE2xg3REtA
Why would Herbert Broome go to this trouble on his death bed?
Prove God in One Minute
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRhgQSMOgVQ
5 Reasons God Exists
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNocC85MU6w
You'll like this series.
The Great Dinosaur Deception Exposed - Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSxBkif71ks
The Great Dinosaur Deception Exposed - Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGJd-OR5MLU
The Great Dinosaur Deception Exposed - Part 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_aLXdVYyCZ4
The Great Dinosaur Deception Exposed - Part 4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0wBoeP1nYk
The Great Dinosaur Deception Exposed - Part 5
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRwjJk5XiwE
The Great Dinosaur Deception Exposed - Part 6
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgtorP2VWRI
God bless
MikeMike - posting links to people lying about these things does not mean a thing. Watch the third video in this collection:
Christians lie about science to their children
I have not watched all those videos you posted, but I have seen some of them before. As for the "stumped atheist," the question is meaningless, and there is no answer.
And the dying atheist's last words - "I am as good as without hope, a sad old man gazing into the final chasm." What exactly does that mean?
I imagine many atheists hedge their bets as they reach the end of their lives. I hope I don't and I hope they picked the correct god.
As for the "5 reasons god exists."
I would stand my value system up against yours any day of the week.
And it is the usual, "Well, I cannot conceive any other explanation, and I already know there is a god, therefore this is proof that god exists."
I hope it makes you feel better - I assume adding links to people who are lying about science is bolstering your faith in some way?
Still not sure why you are aggressively attacking evolution as some sort of proof that god exists. I have said many times, evolution in no way proves the lack of a god.
May your god bless you also......Aggressively attacking evolution?
That was just my second post in this thread.
And who's aggressively attacking who?
It was you that started this thread that's called 'Atheism Rules'.
Your value system?
You say Christians lie when we show you indisputable proof that God exists.
Watch The Great Dinosaur Deception Exposed series.
You may start questioning your faith Mark.
And faith is exactly what atheist's belief in evolution is.
That's all, nothing else.
Nothing else because it has not been proven and never will be proven.
And evolution should definitely not be taught in schools to children.
I posted many reasons on the other post you started titled 'Ignorance is not an Excuse' as to why evolution should definitely not be taught in schools. The Great Dinosaur Deception Exposed series is just one more of the many reasons.
You say I aggressively attack evolution but just look at the two titles of your threads 'Atheism Rules !' and 'Ignorance is not an Excuse'. Now if those titles are not confrontational then I don't know what is.
I don't even know why you continue to beat this dead horse Mark.
What have you got to gain?
Maybe you are making a living by exposing your blog to as many people as you can.
That's what it is, isn't it Mark.
Your value system.
Give me a break.
Chereeo
MikeMake Money -
What on earth are you talking about? How do you see me making money from my blog exactly?
And we have agreed that evolution is a scientific theory, not a belief system.
Choosing not to believe in god in the face of some one saying "there is a god," is not a belief.
Please don't make me explain the meanings of the words "indisputable," and "proof," again
The great dinosaur deception How do you see me making money from my blog exactly?
So what your purpose of being here.To tell people that since you have not had a spiritual experience,it does not exist and the ones who have had are nuts. Only this life exits and that everything ends in death.That man maybe Mark Knowles created the sun and the moon
You haven't even had a chance to watch The Great Dinosaur Deception Exposed series.
You say tomato, I say tomato.
You say scientific theory, I say a faith system.
Well if you are not making money from your blog then what do you have to gain by continually attacking God and religion Mark?
That is the 24 thousand dollar question that inquiring minds want to know.
What is it to you what I believe or don't believe?
Since I have been coming to this forum I do not think that I have seen one post by you that does not attack God or religion.
What do you have to gain from it Mark?You dislike your own ignorance. I would too anyone would
What exactly do you expect atheism to rule over?
He is the king no knowledge at all how unwise- the king must be very ignorant
Please use the "quote" facility when you quote me.
Did you see the rules?Nice sense of humour.
According to textual evidence, then neither did Shakespear.
Hi Ben,
I was making a point to some one who called me ignorant and arrogant because I made a statement that is contrary to his beliefs. I object to being called these things when I have spent a considerable amount of time and effort looking into these matters and have come to the conclusion that Jesus Christ was a construct of the writers of the gospels, not an actual person.
The article I linked to was not intended as proof positive, merely to demonstrate the fact that there is a reasonably large amount of evidence to suggest that Jesus was not an actual person. You must agree that it does raise some valid questions.
It is fairly obvious with just a small amount of research that the christian religion was to a large extent "borrowed" from other, previous religions. This is a good hub on The Risen God.
I can certainly recommend "Sources of the Morality of the Gospels," by Joseph McCabe for some "old-school" information on the subject.
The Jesus Puzzle has more proofs that Jesus did not walk the earth.
Now, I can accept that Jesus might have existed. But the single solitary reference any one has ever found is the bible. There is no other "evidence" whatsoever. None. Zero. Zip. Nada. Nothing. Big Blank. This encourages me to agree with some of the observations and conclusions drawn by these works.
So, I get upset when I get called ignorant and arrogant just because I use a complete lack of evidence for something as one of many valid reasons not to believe in it. Although, the person accusing me of these things seems to have dropped by the wayside.
Any one would think I was exercising my "free will."
You know - Thinking for myself.Why thank you Andrew.
Yes, you are correct. Forcing Jesus down people's throats with threats and armies was indeed a sound approach to spreading the WORD.
Depends on your definition of "test of time" I guess.
The dinosaurs were around for about 65 million years. The bible has been around for about 2,000 years.
Make your own comparisons.
"The death and rebirth of a God" comes up as a non-existent Hub.
Mark,
I can understand how you may agree with the conclusions of some. I have read one article dealing with Paul's teaching in Galations, chapter 4.
I must confess that the basic hermeneutics used to reach their conclusion is, at best, logically inconsistent. It is also reached in direct contradiction to the remainder of Scripture which specifically addresses this issue of the "spiritual-mystical coming of Jesus." In this vein, the teaching of Scripture is consistently unique in that it unabashedly proclaims the bodily death, burial and resurrection of Jesus. This article reaches conclusions which are hard to believe when the totality of Scripture are included. And I don't even grant this article any veracity when it comes to examining this issue in Galatians because it fails to offer other alternatives to the meanings of the words used. It also presumes that the words of Paul and Jesus are at odds with one another w/o really examining them in detail.
If this is an example of the scholarship offered, I am not surprised that any number of "heretical" conclusions could be reached.
I don't say that while looking down my long pious religious scholarly nose. I simply mean that my personal study of Scripture over the years easily helps me to understand and identify the inconsistency and error of the article.
With that said, I'm not against perusing the other articles.
Sorry about the bad link.
Hermeneutics. Interesting word that I haven't heard for many a long year. Not since I was forced to study the bible from a certain perspective actually. And doesn't really apply in this case. Facts. Now that is a word that can be applied in this case.
Facts. Paul states :
"For I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it, but , I received it through a revelation about Jesus Christ."
Or thereabouts - depending on your interpretation. And he was talking about God's thoughts beamed directly into his head. Not personal experience of an actual person. That comes later. With a little manipulation.
Of course, that is one of the problems with the bible. Interpretation. You would have thought, being omnipotent and all, god could have made things a little more clear.
Either way - The fact is - no reference to Jesus is made outside of the bible. I know, I know, that is all you need. You get all the facts you need from the bible.
I must admit to have a little trouble with the words "logically inconsistent."
I mean let's talk about logically inconsistent.
I prefer to say, "Does that make sense to me?"
Does it make sense that all the scientific evidence points to evolution rather than a creation by an all-powerful god, and people argue that the science is all a lie?
Does it make sense that this all-powerful god would then entrust his words to a few men to spread? Given your own opinion of man's inhumanity?
- sandra rinckposted 16 years ago0
Amen
ASU,
I think it can look contradictory - if you assume a person's beliefs are set in stone and never change. What I actually observed along the course of being here, is Sandra's beliefs changing away from Christianity, and I do believe she is always honest in what she posts
A year ago she was a Christian, now she is not...Gotta come in and try to change the subject yet again, huh Mark? I'd like to see you sit still and not fight back if your country was attacked. If you say you would, I nor anyone with any sense would not believe you. There's nothing contradictory in what I have said. If the US is being attacked, then I want us protected. That simple. And that's right, I worship God, not trees. I do my son a favor everyday by teaching him about people like you. Thanks for the false concern
as a matter of fact if you read my hubs in the order in which they were written you would have read, I am not a christian.
If you would have read more of my post on a lot of the threads you would have come accross something that says, I will confuse my enemies. You would have also come across something that says, Christains stop reading before they reached the end of that hub etc. and you would have read other post to other Christains who express genuine love for mankind, something like...no matter what I post, if you love me now, please don't change your mind later due to something I wrote.
I absolutly adore some Christians like Second Samuel or Nana not because I believe in what they believe but because they still accept me regardless. They might be the first tell you, I don't really agree with what she says, but I don't hate her for it.
Somethings can be learned from what I write and do them intentionally.
For instance, Misha is probabaly laughing because I did write in a hub that Christains go wrong because they stopped reading before they reached the end of the hub.
And so it is really fantastic that Mike would also say, yes I made a conclusion without reading her hubs because I can tell what she is doing.
and I have never intened to make money off those hubs. If you wanted proof you would have to check with the hubpages admin about it when I set up my account.
So, you did not read her hubs, but you decided they are contradictory.
Now that is a decision grounded in facts!
Give me this sarcasm smileyThis fact does not change the fact that he did not read them, and still made his judgment. Or did you tell him about their content beforehand?
Exactly. I can see what she is trying to do from her posts without reading her Hubs. Besides, knowing this why would I bother to read her Hubs so she can make money from them. Call it my own personal boycott or whatever you want.
No Misha, 4 months ago she claimed to be a Christian, then 3 months ago she'd say Jesus is not God, then 2 months ago she loves Jesus, then she hate's the Bible, then she loves Jesus again, then Jesus never existed, then pretending to be a Christian again then God doesn't exist. Just full of confusion.
Sandra I'm starting to think that you love everyone but Christians.I always thought there is a striking similarity between communists and christians - you just proved it again
What? You are calling a Christian a communist because I choose to boycott Sandra's Hubs?
Now that is ridiculous Misha.Nope, I am not calling a christian a communist, cause I know the difference
I am saying that methods are pretty similar.
In this case - making a judgment on something without getting to know it.
Mike, you will make a perfect communist when time comes, I told you this already.
Maybe you should take more care in understanding the words that I have chosen to understand what I mean when I say God does not exist.
Anyways, like I said and will say again. I don't have anything against a person who believes in God in a peaceful loving, kind, compassionate, caring mannor. I have something againts those who believe in God and will harm, hurt, say mean things to someone who does not.
I have to refuse using the term God which is something that I had to learn because your God doesn't help you accomplish anything other than total ruin and you are happy about this...
Come on. I love people for being people. I love people who believe in God, I love people who don't believe in anything. I love gay people, I love poor people, I love rich people, and I even love the idea of Jesus.
I don't like that Christains feel somehow attacted by an atheist who says, God does not exist and you have no idea of what we mean. You assume we hate. I don't assume that every Christain is a hater or every Muslim is a demon, or every buddhist is selfish or that Jewish people are Jesus killers.
If loving human beings with all thier perfectly imperfect imperfections makes me bad to you, then that is what it makes me to you. Doesn't change the way that I feel about people.
And what I feel about people is that when it comes to people and your God, every single person come and gone and in the future is innocent. Absolutely, 100% innocent. Nothing will ever change my mind or heart about it.
I love people. God does not make me love people, I just do because that is what I feel. and I am an atheist, a very spiritual one and the only thing I won't do is bow down to your God who requires humans to bow down and kill those who don't bow down to him. He is not God. No one is God.
Respect does not come at the end of a sward.Misha, read the paragraph right before the last sentence in this post please.
Now Misha, she says she's an athiest, you say she's not. Adding even more confusion to the whole thing
You're her friend and you support her, yet you can't even make sense of it. You don't know what she believes. You say she's not what she just plainly said she is.
OK - So you cannot say with certainty "There is no such thing as the spaghetti monster."
And you are ignorant and arrogant to say that?
It is logically impossible to prove the non-existence of anything. Yet you are quite happy to say there is no such thing as the spaghetti monster. Why?
I do not think I have ever said that your beliefs are crap, rubbish or BS.
Mis-guided, self-serving, impossible to prove, easily twisted to suit personal peccadilloes, wrong, laughable, silly - yes........
And the whole not having knowledge about all things. You say you DO have KNOWLEDGE of all THINGS!
Just because I cannot prove it does not exist, does not mean it does. I must admit it is a great argument for agnosticism, but that is about it. If you are basing your belief on the fact that we do not know everything therefore there is a god, well, good luck to you sir.
Prove to me that Santa Claus does not exist.
Millions believe he does.Find your own proof- I found mine
Revelation-enlightenment
Disagree
It might be that way to you, but don't assume it is the same to everybodyI am not going to argue, it's a waste of time. We never agree on this, until your get away from Christianity
Then we will never agree in this time on earth because I will not forsake God for any reason whatsoever. But, in time, every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. (Every = every single person on earth, that leaves no one out.) You are correct in that I will not forsake Him. You have learned my love for Christ well.
Which is also true to you, and not necessarily true to some or everyone else on this thread
That is right, I said I can't stand Jesus and then I said I love the "idea" of Jesus.
At least try to understand it, I am sure Jesus will forgive you.Thank you for posting that Sandra, you have just proven what I have been trying to say.
She is very confused right now
She claims to understand me perfectly and yet puts up irritating posts about how a great religion is not good.I cannot dream of doing such a thing.
She has had a superconcious experience and belives she found God
and like I had said before, many more have died in the name of Christ. I said that that it is done regardless, so if you were a good Christain as you believe you are, then it would make better sense to at least leave God out of it. Show some respect for you Lord.
I will take lame over killer anyday. Thank you.It sucks when people put words into your mouth doesn't it.
Worth a read. Even if he comes up with some "republican" ideals
But you did not answer any questions.
Ben - you are correct. There is a lot of love in the aire.
- sandra rinckposted 16 years ago0
Oh are you still on about that Milla.
I said "because I think they would be just as contradictory" and since then allshookup confirmed that I was right. Sorry you can not talk me into looking at Sandra's Hubs.
And that is a reason you attack all Christians Mark?- sandra rinckposted 16 years ago0
The "facts" of Scripture are that Paul was confronted by Jesus Christ. (see Acts ) This same Jesus personally revealed to Paul the same Gospel He revealed to His Disciples.
If the words are taken as presented, there is no problem interpreting them. Adding to or taking away from those words always presents various problems in communicating the orignal message.
The most basic and fundamental principle of Hermeneutics is Context.
Mark, you act as if the purveyors of your source material have no vested interests in their writings and publications which contain their "interpretations" and "translations" of the material they are dealing with.
Are you sure that these experts are not themselves adding to or taking away from the data being examined?
As far as track records, organizations which have a poor track record are presumed by many to act and speak on behalf of Christ and His People. That is not necessarily the case, regardless of the claims made.
How in heaven can you exalt a frail man?
Mark, all of it has the hand of man it it. But the issue to address isn't whether or not the hand of man is involved, but whether or not there is a difference in the results of man's work on the preservation of that message.
The fact is that there is a body of evidence that is consistent and that pre-dates the most ancient Greek manuscripts. This body of evidence is known to Biblical scholars, but, for some reason??????, fail to mention it. There are clearly two streams of manuscripts. And the one good stream has been the recipients of attempts at subversion and perversion. To top it off, the Bible clearly warns the Believer about such attempts.
One of those warnings is specifically against iinterpolation, adding to the Bible message.
Please note that interpolation is completely different than examining the context of a statement, regardless of the nature of that context. The true context is actually part of the total amount of data in the original message, whereas, interpolation is a separate addition and actually adds to the total amount of data.
Neither you nor anyone else would like our messages to be completely changed by any addition from outside sources. It's rather irritating
The original Bible?......Is there an original to examine? Have any been discovered??
And what would be the ramifications of such a find? If you think wars have been fought to this point...................??????????
You are correct. If I resort to one source, it had better be trustworthy.
I expect nothing of the sort. I expect you to continue your pursuit of the Truth. Such a genuine pursuit will always be rewarded. It is simply that Truth must sometimes be sifted out of the trash that has been heaped upon it to specifically keep others from its treasures, a reality of dealing with frail man.
I did indeed miss this one what with all the love flying around. Tough love, I like to call it. "I love you so much I am going to beat you until you to listen," sort of love.
Rather than make a huge re-quote, I will try and deal with each point that you made without all the previous conversation.
I act in no such way. I take that into consideration when assessing the likely value of what they are saying. And make my own decisions based on their interpretations and my usual rule of thumb -
Does it make sense to me?
Once you take the assumption of god out of the equation, things look a little different. I must admit, if you "assume," god, then you make a different interpretation than if you are open to the possibility that there is not a god.
That is one of the reasons I have chosen to not believe in your god. Much of the reasoning starts from the fact that you have already decided there is a god, and if that is a given, then everything can be made to fit. The argument I usually hear is:
"Well, there is a god. I look around and see a wonderful world. Therefore this is proof that there is a god. Therefore I believe in god."
And specifically the part of the bible we are discussing, I understood that Paul has a "vision" of Jesus, rather than actually meeting the man. Which is a little different.
This is an argument that is used an awful lot.
"Well, those people who did these awful things in the name of christ were not real christians. Still, when it has gone on long enough, you start to get the idea that maybe, just maybe all the love flowing is a good indication that things are maybe not so divine. That is when you start to ask a few questions.
If I gave you the impression I was exalting anyone, I apologize. I have said many times - I am as important as a grain of sand on the beach.
You are to take that as honesty. They freely admit that they are adding what they consider to be their interpretation of a translation of a piece of writing and adding modern words as appropriate. As opposed to the religious scholars who will say, "This is what it means." and add their own words without admitting this is what they must do.
So,, you freely admit that this bible you speak of is not what was originally written? Is god irritated?
Then why do you trust this one source? Even though you admit it is not the original and has been written by men. I would not and do not.
Apologies if I have interpolated any of your words in an attempt to cut this down to a manageable size. It was not intentional.
That is all I really want to hear, thank you.
I was just wondering if the Apostle Paul, non-Atheist extraordinaire and citizen of The Roman Empire, would have taken up the military mantle of Caesar and "fought for his country?"
This has to be one of the most loving forums I've ever seen.Give her a break Mark. I don't imagine you would want your son over their either considering we all now know that war was started with lies. I have read most US soldiers in Iraq feel misused and are voting Democrat because of it.
Now Mark it would show the strength of your character if you could admit that not all wars are caused by religion. How be it? Can you admit that?
A little humor, you spelled aire wrong Mark.Mike - her son is not over there. She is homeschooling him because she thinks evolution is a lie
And I spelled aire wrong on purpose because she keeps writing aide instead of aid.
And I have no problem admitting all wars are not caused by religion.
Religion/money/politics/special interests/nationalism/whatever excuse.
I argue just as vehemently against them as I do religion. Pretty much any BS I come across.
You should read my blog. Plastic crap from China. Why do you think all the governments are dumping money into the economy? So we can buy more plastic crap from China. That 's why.
LOL You all are still arguing!
I had a good dinner already
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