But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
Here's what bothers me. Why is the word adultery used? What if the woman being observed is unmarried? then that would be fornication not adultery, right?
I guess that we should rethink on the definition of Adultery.
GOD often said that Israel was comitting adultery by chasing after other gods. So maybe it has something to do with the heart.
The status of marriage is irrelevant unless married to each other. The meaning of adultery has been inhibited and slapped with a superficial and tangible countenance of only being in conjunction with marriage. It goes deeper than that. It is part of the doctrine of self control - both in mind and body. A blatant and intended violation of the precept of self control leaves one under the consequences of that violation. It is adultery.
I think your explanation was the better.
I might add that Adultery would then contain a form of betrayal either to another or self ????
And actually that isn't a complete answer..
golden path... fornication does the same thing as adultery and vice versa. Yes adultery has a certain definition and i wondered why this applied to this scenario when i thought the word fornication would have sufficed more aptly.
Nuh-uh. Without lust, no fun. No fun, no need to exist.
The god of the Old Testament is not to be trusted. He changes his mind too often. Besides, he's not the God of the New Testament. All you have to do is read both books to discover that they are not in fact the same deity.
Which is the more honest of the two? The OT one to be sure. He's up front. Yeah, he changes his mind now and then, but most of the time, He tells it like it is. Don't obey me and you die. I'm easily angered. I take vengeance. I burn you, I smite you, I set your enemies upon you. Right to the point. No need to wonder what he's talking about.
That NT god on the other hand? Not so nice as people think. He says he is Love but in reality, he's just a dictator in disguise. And, unlike the OT god, who would simply kill you and be done with it, the NT god keeps you alive in torment for eternity. That's nasty. And it isn't because you're a bad person necessarily. It's because you don't believe a certain way. But which way? Pentecostal? Baptist? Mormon? Catholic? Yikes.
I'll take my chances with disbelieving in both of those gods. Oh, and I'll keep lusting, too.
I have just read the words of a 'thinking realist!"
Interesting, I'm sorry to read that you don't see love in the old testament. I suppose god could have left israel to the bondage of egyptian slavery, but instead he chose to free them and take them to a beautiful land. While other countries had no idea how to run a well functioning society, god showed israel the way. Disease, human sacrifice, false hopes, corrupt governments, and more were common among surrounding countries, god revealed a better way to live, free of STD's, abortions, instead of human sacrifice, god allowed israel to offer their food to god and not their children. Theres 1000's of examples of gods love in the OT. Look at the garden of eden, what a beautiful gift of god for simple obedience. Thats what god wanted his creations to have in the first place and ever since then he's had to be busy correcting the mistakes that humans make. Back then civilization was not so civil. There were few human rights, slavery abounded, no United Nations to keep the war factor to a minimum. Disease would spread rampantly because of lack of proper care. Joseph with the coat of many colors was doomed to die in a well by his jealous brothers, god made joseph co-ruler over egypt and through a dream provided food for 7 years when there was only famine. In the wars (book of joshua) that led the children of israel to possess the promised land god 'smart bombed' the opposing forces with hail so that 'many more died by the hail than by the sword'. So many examples of god establishing and protecting HIS people, not the sinners, that i will just end it there. God has always been love, but this kind of love one cannot see from the outside looking in. Tell me in detail how a car engine works? You more or less have to have studied up on it to know. I read a grade 12 math book once but i dont know grade 12 math. I have a few theories on how grade 12 math works but i am sure someone more learned will correct me.
Then, it would appear that the biggest mistake was assuming his creations would give freely of that obedience, even when a garden of eden was offered to them.
Then, since he failed in his offering of eden, he goes on to make an even bigger mistake by establishing ultimate rules of obedience only to have his creations break those rules, too.
He gives us chances, hoping and praying that we make the right choice. I teach teens and pre-teens, and even though I often know what they would choose in a situation, I still tell them the truth and hope that they make the right choice. It's still their choice. Obedience isn't so hard when you understand that it is not a cage to keep you in, but standards to protect you. I put a fence up for my dogs because I want to protect them from getting hurt, becoming roadkill, attacked. I can give them what they need. Food, shelter, love, care. They can't get that on their own. Rules are there not as threats and because He wants to control you- He wants to protect you and love you and have a relationship with you. But God is a gentleman, and will never force anything- it is always your choice.
Ah yes! The gentleman god! Let's here from him shall we?
Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)
They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)
I think you should cage your rabbid god along with the dogs!
The world was being established and He was setting down an order. When Jesus came, He instilled a new way because it was a new time- the earth wasn't brand new. The laws had been made, the precedents set. Interesting that you should be so interested as to look at Bible verses about it- tell me, do you remember also those verses all through the old and new testament about calling the people back to them? Giving them every chance He could? He doesn't want to enforce the punishment, like every parent. But sometimes, as a parent you have to. Before judging a God you don't even know, try to see it through His eyes. He didn't want the world this way.
So he isn't omni anything? Just couldn't do it right eh?
God threatening people may have worked well back then, but as someone famous once said, "All thinking men are atheists" people became less obedient as they saw how ridiculous it is to call a killing machine a god, so it has been watered down by the NT so people can quote the nonsense niceties from the NT while only converting to the OT to condemn.
Selective reading of the most hate filled tome ever seen apart from the quoran.
I have studied the bible thoroughly in 3 languages and spent two years doing so. I was also a "Christian" believer with all the qualification of being saved.
I studied the bible, the quoran and have even seen the dead sea scrolls as well as being a foundation member of the CBMC. a world-wide christian businessman's organisation
It is not my lack of knowledge or understanding of religion that caused me to see it is bulldust. It was from learning about it, travelling the world seeing it in other forms and being an open minded thinker.
Hi, earnestshub! You have an interesting slant on the Bible. Those passages describe God's justice shown in his nation of Israel, which is no different from his justice shown to Adam and Eve, "In the day that you eat it, you will die." They did die when they disobeyed God's command, spiritually. They hid from God, but he sought them out in Genesis 3. He could have wiped them out, but he called them to their responsibility and to change their ways. In that same chapter in the middle of God's pronouncement of his just punishment, he promised that the woman's descendent will be victorious over the evil one (Genesis 3:15) for those who believe. Jesus fulfilled that prediction on the cross. All humanity, Israel in the Old, and the church in the New Testament are called to obey God. Only Jesus' perfect obedience in his life and death gain believers God's eternal love through his free gift of faith.
I believe that our Creator made us not just as creatures completely dependent on him for every breath and heartbeat, but he also made us persons with responsibility to obey him. It wasn't God's mistake or sin that his creation turned away from him, but it was humanity's fault or sin to disobey. He made his universe and people "very good," but humans messed their goodness up. God rescue plan then sent Jesus to restore those who would believe in and follow him.
Hi, RichardSpeaks. Your viewpoint is not unique. You make generalizations about who you consider to be two gods in the Bible.
You say that the God of the Old Testament changes his mind. It certainly seems to be the case. When Moses prayed for Israel, God held back his judgment of their disobedience. If he is the true God, everyone can be thankful that he does answer his believers' prayers for humans to give unbelievers more time to change their beliefs and ways. The way I see those "changes" in God's actions, after I have studied the Bible for decades, is that God is just in punishing his creatures' disobedience, merciful in being patient, and loving while rescuing believers. His justice is shown when his people disobey him, and his mercy is shown when they change their ways. Also, his justice is delayed when someone like Moses prays for the disobedient.
Jesus asked his Father to forgive those who ignorantly crucified him. Actually, God's justice was delayed because of Jesus' prayer until the unbelievers' death if they didn't turn from their unbelief and disobedience. Moses' prayers for Israel in the desert only delayed justice for 40 years while they wandered around present-day Saudi Arabia and while that whole generation died.
I believe that it's the same God is in the Old and New Testaments. Why? The differences seem to be there because of several considerations. (1) The Bible reveals more about God and his people's relationship with him as the narratives accumulate. (2) The Old Testament reveals God's relationship (covenant) with the nation of Israel, whereas the New Testament reveals his relationship (covenant) with an international group of believers called the church. It is one covenant, the one that God made with Abraham, but it's a new form of that covenant with the church. (3) There are hints of plurality in the one Old Testament God (the word for "God" being plural--"elohim"), but in opposition to the many gods of the nations around Israel and their temptations to worship those gods, God's oneness is emphasized. (4) The mystery of the same God's three-in-oneness is revealed in the New Testament as the Word, who is God and with God, became human and lived awhile among us (John 1:1-14), and the Holy Spirit is revealed as the third Person of God (John 14-16). (5) His loving plan to rescue humanity for all who would believe and follow his ways is revealed in Jesus Christ, who lived a perfect life as the God-man, died as believers' substitute, and rose from the dead to give them new life. The rest of the New Testament (Covenant) explains that rescue plan.
If you still think that the God of the Old and New Testaments are different, look at Exodus 33:12--34:7, where God proclaimed his loving and patient nature, and Romans 1:18-25, where Paul revealed God's just anger against his human creatures' rebellion against him. That God in whom I believe is incredibly patient and loving but must at some point judge unbelievers "guilty." Believers are worhy of that same verdict, but Jesus took that punishment on himself on the cross in their place.
I believe in that one God, but you are free to believe as you wish.
You are all in error, The Lord created them man and female, which is why they will leave their parents and cleave to one another, what he is actually saying as has happened with Adam and Eve The Lord will bring the wife to the man, any woman you lust after is not the one The Lord has planned for the man to have, because first and foremost she must be prepared for helping the man carry the work load that they will partake of. Hence the meaning of taking one of his ribs, she will be part of the man used to help him carry the load, but in essence since the man is the head he must be strong and able to carry a majority of the load. Another reason why the man is the head of the woman. Firstly the man is servant to The Lord which makes The Lord the authority of the man, and the woman is ready and capable to serve under the authority of the man. There is so much to explain and not enough time to give.
A friend indeed... i pondered this point too. If my lust is not acted upon i have not transgressed my 'future' or chosen wifes position, to become my mate. Although this is s a good point it is not the main answer i am looking for. A good point nontheless. congrats!
Hi, RichardSpeaks! Not at all. You're mistaken. Jesus called lust adultery as the God-man who is the second Person of God come from the first Person in the power of the third Person, the Holy Spirit. Self-centered desire for someone who is not my wife is adultery, that is, sexual immorality, against the 3-in-1 God of the Bible. That's what I believe; it is very different from Islam.
Since the Church is married to God, we commit adultery when we lust after a woman. Israel is also married to God and committed adultery when she went after false gods and idols.
It is a heart condition that must be dealt with. It can only be dealt with in the spirit of the Lord.
I think the point is the LUSTING FOR FLESH, whether the woman is unmarried or married.
Lusting after your woman or man is just as if not more important than building a strong relationship with them In fact, it is the very foundation of that relationship. Without it, the relationship can't flourish.
Nope! I'm willing to bet against that. Sexual attraction may cause some of the feelings, but not the precise based foundation for a relationship. There must be more to it that just sex.
You're right, Cagsil. I believe that a decision of commitment to a marital partner is needed in addition to romantic or sexual attraction. Such commitment will make a marriage last unlike those attractions, which often fade with time.
But I would add the dimension of commitment to the God of the Bible as the third and most important participant in believers' marriage. He's the one who enabled my wife and me to go through almost three years of our second son's sickness and death from leukemia. His gift of committed love to him and to each other kept us from splitting up, unlike many couples who go through tragic times like those. He also enables me to praise him for his creation of the human body instead of lusting for women who aren't my wife.
Upon further reading into the verse and referencing it in its original language (GREEK) The verse is translated like this :
But I say unto you , That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart .
But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh ( metaph. to see with the mind's eye) on a woman ( a woman of any age, whether a virgin, or married, or a widow) to lust ( to lust after, covet..-of those who seek things forbidden) after her, hath committed adultry with her already in his heart (denotes the centre of all physical and spiritual life) ...
Whe referring to the idea of adultry...it means spiritually and it refers also to the woman in saying (of the wife: to suffer adultery, be debauched) Debauched is defined as :1 a archaic : to make disloyal b : to seduce from chastity
2 a : to lead away from virtue or excellence b : to corrupt by intemperance or sensuality
synonyms see debase
You can take the bits and pieces and gain insight as to how you will brea it down. This one is pretty clear though. If a person looks on another person with thought and desire aimed to sexual acts...is pretty much coveting and committing the act ...and polluting his/her spirit (referring to the one who committs the act) Polluting it by two acts coveting (per greek translation) and by dirtying the spiritual flow by thinking what is defined as impure.
Marriage is a bond between two people both physical and spiritual and the bible says the marriage bed is undefiled..so "lusting" after your wife is perfectly fine since you have committed to her. I thin this verse is referring to single men who "lust/covet" another woman who they have not committed to (remember that times were different.)
This is my translation of the verse when compared to the original Greek meaning of the words.
I agree with you, deepthinker76. You explanation and interpretation of the passage is right. One little point I would like to make, though. You say that the Bible says that the marriage bed is undefiled. Well, the verse is Hebrews 12:4, "Marriage should be honored by all, and the marriage bed kept pure, for God will judge the adulterer and sexually immoral." I think that that's the verse to which you are referring. It certainly is relevant to our discussion of Jesus' deeper interpretation of the commandment against adultery, but it is a call to keep the marriage bed pure. For example, I've heard of some dominant husbands who rape their wives against their will, an act that violates this passage as well.
Please disregard the last post in my name. I had one smart%ss family member try to be funny. Please accept my apologies for any offence and the post made.
Especially to you Sir Dent who responded. I tried to delete it as soon as I became aware of it.
Could be another translation error. Like the word virgin could also mean young girl.
Call it what you want; I break whatever law it is (lust you say) 37 or so times a day.
Nightempress.. well then its definitely adultery. Part of my point was that the woman was not married nor the man, then why is it still called adultery?
Strong's Lexicon seems to imply that the root of the word used in this passage meant a woman who was married or betrothed.
joni.. strongs also states a virgin and virgin means unmarried and even unbetrothed. Nice to see original words are being sought out.
strongs says this :1) a woman of any age, whether a virgin, or married, or a widow
2) a wife
a) of a betrothed woman
when referring to the "woman" you have to remember the other rules set forth prior to this verse as well. You cant take one verse and have full insight. The bible says if your married the marriage bed (referring to sex between married people) is undefiled...
If Adultery ocured without actual contact??
Sounds to me that the fact that he lusted in his HEART and the damage was already done?? She would know nothing about the incident? Would it matter if she was married or single, the damage was done to himself by himself?
So like brotheryochanan I have often wondered about this?
I think that the word that Adultery is translated from would have deeper meanings than that which we consider when we read that word? my thoughts anyway.
Adultery? Please. It is an action taken by two consenting parties.
One cannot be convicted based on desired thoughts, when no action has been taken. Thinking about it doesn't commit the act itself.
2 bad...'cause i was just thinkin' about it.......all week as a matter of fact....
It is impossible for a human being to suppress all their desires. Plain and simple. Self-control sure. But, to down right suppress them is foolish and only leads one to drive oneself insane.
....i'm sending out 'baaaaaddddd' thoughts now....
shouldn't have showed up in the first place.
problem? sounds pretty nasty.....your words...can't have fun?....
how many times have you been married brotheryochanan?
Ive never been married. I have fun in other ways. I was looking for serious conversation and hopefully a solution to the dilemma. If people just add their fun to this string then it gets really long and tedious and I have to wade through the fun to get what i am seeking. There are many people who like to add their fun but i just find it distracting, sorry... get twister lol.
Cagsil, this is why christians pray, for strength NOT to do things that the rest of the world hurries to do. We pray because we are doing different things than the unsaved. Insanity is never an issue.
Sadly - the facts prove that this does not work, because I do not see Christians doing anything different to the rest of the world
There are several conclusions one can draw from this.
1. Prayer does not work
2. There is no god
I realize you will probably justify the fact that you do not behave any better than the "unsaved" in some fashion, but the truth is the truth regardless.
You are no better and do not behave any better than any one else and after 1800 years of praying and not behaving any better, I think "insane" is an appropriate word to use for people who continue to ignore reality and "pray" in the face of 1800 years of it not working.
Either that - or you are just hypocrites.
I am open to some other conclusion that does not involve me pretending reality is not there.
I suspect it is all the fault of the atheists/satanists/lefties...........?
And I know - I am butting in on a discussion about the bible but my personal opinion is - the bible is nonsense that will continue to confuse and cause conflict because you do not understand what it says. Your time would be better spent being actual christians instead of arguing about the meaning of certain indecipherable passages and fighting to show that you are some how different to the "unsaved."
The bible causes division and conflict.
Case in point.
Thanks for your judgments, god will meet you with the same thing.
The reason you don't see christians doing different than the world is because you don't spend enough time around christians. Each christian has their strong and weak points, remember christians try to accomplish things that the unsaved has absolutely no chance at overcoming, a few exceptions omitted. There are unsaved that do not smoke nor lust, you've seen them around, living their lives basically pretty clean and good in the world. Some of the dregs of society that god chooses to work with have to struggle just to get to a certain point of decency, some of heroin, porn, theft. Some have huge points of guilt over past actions to forgive themselves of, most people just love the world too much to leave it all behind. God will help them, god will and does change lives, in time.
The word of god is what brings the christian deeper into the things of god. It is a valuable tool that helps to change lives. My life has greatly improved since being saved and i wouldn't undo the changes god has made in my life for the empty events that the world would waste my years with.
Debating about scripture is cool. It thrills me. I enjoy a good mystery as much as any other puzzle solver. I enjoy the common ground and practicing what I know to be true.
In gods world, i can look at beautiful women and not be swayed but their flesh. I can think child of god and i am sure that to other noteworthy lovely christian women to NOT be thought of as a piece of meat for the plowiing is a refreshing drink of water in a foul world. A foul world created by the fleshly desires of people who do not read the word of god.
This question was not raised by me to cause dissention. It is probably one of the more harmless questions to ask. God is love and that kind of love is amazing to the soul and brings everybody to an equal playing ground.
You are wrong with all that you say here and if you cannot answer my question according to biblical aspects, go to another question please. Your response saddens me so much i might just add you to my prayer list. Take care.
In my world - I can look at a beautiful woman and not be swayed by her flesh also.
So what? I am married and made a promise. I still think my opinion of scripture is a valid one - and I know you don't want to hear it - because the truth hurts. This business of denying our true selves is where all the conflicts come from. You are an evolved animal. Deal with it.
I was also fairly certain you had an argument that Christians are different to everyone else. This is why your religion is so very divisive.
But - The reason I don't see Christians doing different than the world is because Christians do not do anything different.
Feel free to pray for me if that makes you feel special.
I think the people who created this foul world did, indeed, read the bible...and the Qur'an...and the Torah, etc. Maybe that's why the world is so Foul.
This discussion is interesting. However, Jesus' point was to explain the depth of the commandment from Exodus 20 and Deuteronomy 5, You shall not commit adultery." He makes the Old Testament commandments much deeper and harder to do, one indication that no one human mind made up those teachings. God revealed his will to us and then gives us power through Jesus by the Spirit to make progress.
His point is that our following of Jesus has to be an inner and outer commitment to him as the God-man who died and rose again for us who trust in him. Our self-centered desire for a woman or man is a sin offensive to God just as much as a sexual act, whether or not you call it adultery or sexual immorality.
For example, I used to lust after women who were not my wife. But Jesus brought to my mind this text from his Sermon on the Mount and taught me from the praise Psalms to praise God my Creator with my mind everytime I saw such a woman for his divine power in creating the human body. In doing so, he prepared me to swim in three swimming pools in three towns. As a result, he got my desires off of my selfish pleasure and onto him as the all-powerful Creator of women and set me free from my lust. Such is God's power through prayer.
One of you said that 1800 years have proved that prayer doesn't work. I don't believe in pragmatism. There are three answers to prayer: yes, no, and not yet. God knows the big picture and knows what is best for us. Sometimes, we ask selfishly and fail to receive because of our motives. However, my life has shown that God does answer prayer, just not every time and certainly not on our schedule!
Ah well - in that case - why are Christians no better than anyone else? Easy - prayer does not work. I see you missed the point I was making though, because the prayer being referenced was to "not be like the world" - 1800 years of christian murders, rape and adultery. Not impressed.
Oh - you mean praying for your own personal gain? In that case - maybe.
Mark, professed Christians may be hypocrites or weak Christians with huge blindspots. I don't believe in judging the Bible or its God by his professed followers, who are all far from perfect. You can't see those people's heart, and I can't either. So I leave them to God to judge. It's true that professed Christians have done horrible things against God's Bible, but he will judge them and sort out the truth, because he alone knows people's inner life.
It looks like hell will fill up quickly, and not just with non-believers. Heaven must be such a lonely place.
What a pathetic argument. I do believe in judging the bible anhd the god of the bible by the effects they have on the real world. You want to buy the "don't worry it will all be OK when you die," nonsense that KJ wrote to keep the sheeple in line - be my guest - just don't try selling it to me.
Just exactly what are you judging it by if you are choosing to ignore the last 2000 years? What happens in the afterlife that the bible tells you to believe? Dear me.
Bruce_Leiter nice answer! I appreciate the depth and thought. Other comments pale in comparison to yours (they know who they are lol).
God does reveal his will to us and then gives us power through Jesus by prayer and the Spirit to make progress. This happens to those who want progress. Mark knowles only the christians who don't want progress it seems but enough about his negativity.
I too used to have a problem with lusting after woman, being an internet dater for years and a porn addict: happy i am to announce that both those aspects are defeated in christ, albeit, it hurt quite a bit. Shame god doesn't use anesthesia huh. Then boredom became a problem, i had a whole bunch of extra time (one can only study so many days in a row and pray so often in a day) I threw my tv out the window and melted all my rock n roll music cds. I'm happier without them both.
I can accept that god used the word adultery instead of fornication and i can adopt a few routes to solutions of this scripture. I never thought it was a typo, although my kjv has the word 'moe' instead of 'more', haha, funny stuff.
I agree on the heart issue and i am truly happy for your success! God is powerful in us and around us.
Amen, brother! I'm thankful with you about God's progress in our lives. Another example took me down a different biblical path from yours. Ever since I was bored with farmwork when I was young and Dad brought home our first TV when I was 9, sports and TV were an idol that controlled my life as an "escape" from the farm. Can you imagine the Chicago Cubs as my idol :-)? But they were along with watching TV.
Well, I became a Christian when I was 16 but kept those idols until I was a preacher in my first church. God led me to preach on the Bible principles of spending leisure time. I came to the text in 1 Corinthians 10:31, "So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God" (NIV). After I preached that message, God began working on me. I asked myself, "Are you watching sports and TV to honor God?" I had to admit that I wasn't.
I had two biblical choices: either throw TV and sports out of my life or find some way to honor God with them. I chose the latter option and began to praise our Creator for his creation of the human body as I watched sports and to praise that same God of justice as I watched the justice-mystery dramas on evening TV. God's result in my life was that he set me free from my selfish pleasure to put my attention on him as the just Creator, just as he did in delivering me from lust.
Your solution is one option, but I'm thankful that sports and TV became only hobbies (I no longer think about them all day long), because I have ways to interact with lots of people in my life through sports and TV as common interests.
"If" you and I went cruzing looking for a victum to abduct and kidnapp; We would already be guilty of the act if we were able to find a victum or not.
We would have lowered our morals in our own eyes wether we were ever found out by others or not. The damage was done when we decided to act upon the desires of our heart.
I think that this kind of thing is what the verse is talking about??
First can I say, WOW! I am truly amazed. Again, you couldn't be further from the truth, if it bit you.
Did you hear yourself? Or did you not bother to read the words of your post before hitting post?
I quote " "If" you and I went cruzing looking for a victum" - You see, there you go again. As you so nicely describe- we were in the middle of the ACTION to begin with. Thus, guilty.
Adultery requires ACTION between two consenting adults. Got it? I hope so.
In the scenerio we were not in the act of a crime. We were attempting to prepair ourself to commit the crime.
Ya caint commit a crime without a victim. We didn't find a victim. Would that make us any less of a scum bag just cause we couldn't find a victim? No it wouldn't.
Same difference. If you and I were together and were planning, then it is no difference, we are already in acting stage of the crime. Physical character defines it as an action.
WE - YOU and I - were Planning(creating action) intent on finding a victim. Technically, there is no legal crime to the action until the other party is involved.
Biblical is irrelevant. Human beings live by Man's law. Not ancient religious myth.
OK I'll simply this for ya. You are sitting on your portch. You have already made up your mind that the next woman that walks by; you are going to grab her and take her in side against her will.
You haven't done anything yet except to think about it. You are already a skumbag for thinking about doing it.
You would already have been found guilty in your own mind.
That is what the above verse is talking about.
Cagsil, oh im sorry did I not post this in the christianity, bible category, if i did, then i probably absolutely meant to have a christian biblical discussion otherwise i might have just emailed you for your opinion. Biblical is what i am referring to exclusively and im not really open to other opinions that are not biblical, like because i mentioned i put it in the biblical category
Wrong on both counts, try telling Homeland Security (no matter where you live) that THINKING about blowing something up was not a crime until you did the act.
Point two,yep, secular human beings do live by mans law, but believers must not in any instance where man's law transgresses what God's law states, we are to follow God, not man.
Ah - I take it that is why you behave so badly? You do not need to follow man's laws. Divorce any one?
Odd that you are unable to see the division YOU cause John.
YOU are causing enmity and division with YOUR words.
You have no morals. None. You
Christ Himself did state that He came to bring division, it's a kinda choose God or man type thing... go to go shop some now, back later.
Christ never said anything aquasilver, it is all here-say.
you again..... isnt there a car engine requiring medical attention somewhere near you?
That works both ways as always.
Couldn't you be doing something better with your time?
*and yes, I am aware I could be too(maybe) considering the fact that we are ALL sitting in the front of a computer putting replies/posts into this forum.
It is overwhelmingly obvious, our time could be better spent than the foolishness that goes on here.
Just a thought.
How do you know Christ never said anything ernesthub? Where you there or is that here-say on your part?
Earnestshub, you apparently don't believe Jesus' eyewitnesses like Matthew, who reported Jesus' Sermon on the Mount (Including the verse under question) to us. Jesus was reported to say that he would send the Holy Spirit to enable the disciples to remember all that he said and to help them write down those events and teachings in Jesus' life that fit his followers' audiences' needs. Why don't you believe the eyewitnesses' accounts? That's the way we got any ancient history, from those who witnessed famous people's events and teachings. Look at Plato's writings that report Socrates' teachings. Do you believe his eyewitness accounts? If you do, why not Jesus' followers' accounts?
Just a thought, earnestshub, for you to think about. You may believe as you wish.
I am speaking to you. You are the one causing ill will, fights and conflict. You are the one causing division and - in the past wars, although it seems you relish the prospect of yet another war.
Considering you are about 14,000 miles away from me, you make some wild accusations which you cannot possibly justify.
It's the word of God that causes you to feel division, I am just the 'messenger' (in a loose sense of the word) who tells you things that you don't like to receive, so you react.
I have never started any wars, and neither has any disciple of Christ, I will not see Christ blamed for what Churchianity has done in the name of religion.
You simply cannot separate the two things.
I realise that you have made it personal, which is your right, and equally my right is to keep pressing in with rebuking and revoking the words issued here that are designed to detract from believers and attempt to silence believers.
I do have better things to do, so can only check in when passing, but there seems to be sufficient Satan Whisperers here to amuse each other, so that's OK, and I will throw in my tuppence worth as I can.
No morals, no personal responsibility. You are the one rebuking me for something you have no authority to rebuke me for. You. You are the one making up a message and pretending it is from someone else. No one else involved. You.
Appalling lack of personal responsibility. No wonder so many wars have been caused by people like you. Sad really that you would rather fight and spread ill will than learn from the past.
You John. No one else. I am speaking to you - personally. As you are to me. There is no one else involved here. Just me and you.
Much as you would like there to be just you and me, I speak from a whole wealth of scripture that guides how I deal with you and the other whisperers.
Now I know that frustrates you and it's hard to take, but it's simply the way it is, and you or Randy ranting on about how you perceive my life and experiences to be false is just your own need to self justify your accusations and attacks against the body of Christ, His believers here on the hub, and all over the world.
Personally my score improves every time you try to defame me, and normally I can pick up a fan or two along the way, so I have no problem with your rants.
Meanwhile, we seem to provide some mild amusement for other forum hubbers, so what's the harm.
BTW I felt that your conversation with Holly was very well managed and quite civil, well done both of you.
"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)
If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)
A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)
Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)
They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)
If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)
Guess you are stuck in the old covenant Q.... Thankfully Christ came to give us the new covenant....
Galatians 5:13-15 (King James Version)
13For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.
14For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Proverbs 8:16-18 (King James Version)
16By me princes rule, and nobles, even all the judges of the earth.
17I love them that love me; and those that seek me early shall find me.
18Riches and honour are with me; yea, durable riches and righteousness.
Matthew 5:42-44 (King James Version)
42Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.
43Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
44But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
Mark 12:29-31 (King James Version)
29And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
30And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
31And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
I could go on all night showing you why Christ changed the world and still is changing the world, but I suspect that your bitterness is too entrenched for you to bear such worthy words.
Oh yes, there is the old and the new word of god, in which god sends down his son to correct the mistakes he made in his first word, which was supposed to be perfect, but still had to be corrected for some reason.
I await the next version. Return of the Covenant. Covenant 3 - Death To Mankind.
Christ did not change the world, the followers of Christianity did.
No John - it is just you. Much as it suit you to lie and pretend that you speak for some one else and make it appear that I am speaking to that person - it is just you and me.
Most of that scripture you quote actually points the finger in your direction.
Be a man for a change - stand up and accept responsibility for your own actions. No morals. None.
Yes - I see - 199 followers. Very well done.
Mark, whatever your plans are to discredit me, I care not.
Every word you utter or write is your responsibility before God, and either gives authority to God in your life, or Satan.
I am of course fully responsible for my actions before God, as you are for yours.... but thankfully I have an intercessor in Christ who guides me, corrects me, and gives wisdom and discernment to deal with the spiritual world.
I am speaking to you John. You are not God. You do not speak for God. I am not maligning God. I am speaking to you.
Stand up and be a man. I am not interested in dealing with this imaginary person who give you free license to not accept responsibility for your actions and words.
These are your words. Your divisive attacks on me. You are the one that calls me "satan whisperer" and pretends this is not a personal insult.
No one else John. I am speaking to you. You are speaking to me. You are not speaking on behalf of any one else and I suspect the majority of your "brothers and sisters in Christ" are cringing every time you threaten me with God's judgment and tell me that Christ is guiding your actions and words.
You are responsible. Christ is not involved here. It is just you and me.
I am the one you are calling names and speaking with John.
I would love to have a reasonable and rational conversation with you John - but it is not possible when you are claiming that some one else is guiding your words. In fact - it is offensive and frustrating that you seem incapable of admitting you are speaking for yourself.
Complete lack of personal responsibility. No morals. None. No wonder people like you cause so many wars. Terrible behavior.
"I would love to have a reasonable and rational conversation with you John - but it is not possible when you are claiming that some one else is guiding your words. In fact - it is offensive and frustrating that you seem incapable of admitting you are speaking for yourself."
So start one.... what do you wish to discuss?
Well - will you promise to accept responsibility for the things you say instead of pretending someone else is telling you to say them? And when I speak to you - will you agree that I am speaking solely to you and not some invisible deity?
If you will promise those things - I would love to discuss how divisive and conflict inducing your religion is.
Probably best to start on a new thread though - the brother is already annoyed at me.
Edit - I am going our for lunch now - so this will have to wait.
I don't pretend that God is telling me to say things, but when I crossed over I dropped divination and it was replaced with discernment and words of knowledge.
That may have no essential meaning to you, but I understand it, and so would any Holy Spirit filled believer.
But for the purposes of any discussion we have, I accept that you wish to believe that I am only speaking my own words, so we can agree that.
I can also agree that you are speaking solely to me, but I do know that our discussion is also comprehended by spiritual forces that you deny exist.
As you deny their existence, it's a moot point, for you cannot object to what you deny exists hearing what we discuss, as obviously in your opinion they would not be able to hear or interject in the discussion.
"I would love to discuss how divisive and conflict inducing your religion is."
No problem with that discussion, though obviously, as it would involve me using scripture to present my point, you may have a problem with it.
BTW, for the record I am a non denominational 'free' believer in Christ, i.e. I am not affiliated with any recognized branch of churchianity, and although I do visit their meetings on occasion, most religionists would find me as annoying as you seem to.
Some would even view me as a heretic.
A separate thread seems best i agree, and one where we simply ignore interlopers of any shade or hue.
It's 18.25 here in Penang, and I have a 5am start tomorrow, so will be sleeping from about 22.00 hrs Penang time, I believe you are in France, is that correct? - well if you are then your time will be about six hours behind me, and it should be about 12.30 as I write... giving us a four hour window today, after which I will be offline (whilst working) until 14.00 Penang tomorrow (Monday) - so our replies to each other may be somewhat stilted, and please accept that if some time elapses between replies, it is not for any other reason than time constraints.
I look forward to discussing things, perhaps when you have set up a thread you can email me:
and we can start....
If Christians were honest, they'd admit that they were speaking for their god. If they were honest, that is.
So - you are not able to say that? Just that you understand why I want to believe that?
Cannot agree here either then?
As you deny their existence, it's a moot point, for you cannot object to what you deny exists hearing what we discuss, as obviously in your opinion they would not be able to hear or interject in the discussion.
Why would it involve you using scripture to present your point?
No - you seem to have made your own version of churchianity - as every one does.
Yes - Which rather agrees with my perspective that your religion creates division and conflict. But - we will get to that.
Most people seem genuinely respectful if we ask them to avoid getting in the way.
I cut your email address out as spammers and spam programs tend to pick thiose up, but I have started a thread here:
I haven't ranted about anything Aqua! Remember, it was you calling me a "Satan Whisperer" because I disagreed with you. It meant nothing, of course, but it did show your lack of tolerance for my opinion. Something you do not approve of in others, apparently!
We are all animals. Higher forms of animals, but still animals. The urge to have sex is an instinct which requires no forethought, he same as hunger or sleep.
I suppose someone writing a murder mystery or other type of crime novel would be full of sin by thinking about the scenarios involved in the story.
Why in heck would I ever want some of you guys interpreting anything for me, especially your old novel?
I'm of the understanding that even the current biblical translation is taken incorrectly. I agree with Jerami, that even by having the thought the crime is committed. Pays to keep ones thoughts to oneself obviously!
In the finest meaning of adultery, it would be to see the female and male sides of you as separate, and then see the female as less than and the servant of the male. The female is not the servant of the male either in physical form or inner thinking.
That may be a stretch for some, but I'm of the 'opinion' that the Bible was intended for a spiritual life and nothing less.. As the majority are living in the lesser realms of a virtuous existence, I'd say the bible is completely taken out of context when applying it to more grosser experiences. The more recent translations have definitely seen a loss of innocence.
There you go. The moment you apply it to an external occurence is the moment you lose it and the fights start.
jewels i notice you come from another direction at all this stuff. Interpretation is tantamount. The bible is not all that complicated although metaphysical in meaning often and containing considerable poetic prose and parablism it really is just an abstainance from the ways of the world not a redefining of all its parameters. strength through god to NOT do those things that most of humankind does naturally. Christianity itself frowns upon the actions of what humankind does naturally. Sometimes when people adopt a way of looking at things, like a scientist for example has a hard time looking at creation by god, people loose their innocence to understand a different thing.
Thanks for your input.
That's why Christianity is so dangerous to the survival of humankind.
Of course, without humankind, Christianity wouldn't exist.
Christians are sure to cut off their legs in order to save their footings.
i think it better put this way, without christianity humankind wouldn't exist. Lets go back to the beginning of things...god rescued israel from egyptian slavery.. what was the rest of mankind doing all around them... burning children and obeying the rules of gods like the sun and moon, who never told them of decency, human compassion, which when u look in depth as to what abominations humankind has atrociated it seems the only goodness has actually come from the god of the bible. But thats another discussion and i just wanted one discussion, its mentioned at the top of the page.
Weird you mention that brother, because, instead of burning them, they went digging them up to cut up there parts and study them, or worse today, mechanically sucking their lifeblood and tissue -before they are even born...
Many forget this act of complete disrespect for a dead person and grave robbing (theft) was the beginnings of biology. Of course, they justify it saying, "Well if we didn't, then we could not use the information to save lives". So I asked, what lives were saved over the last 500 years of science. Are any of those test subjects still alive to testify to the validity of those justifications. I have yet to receive a response...
Even more sickening is religion claiming the need to save people. So I asked, who can you save? Only One was able and did for all men. They justified their position by saying they were commanded to. So, I searched the guide book they use and found no such command...
Of course, we both know that's entirely false, as can be witnessed by the fact that humankind existed before Christianity and the fact that many other civilizations got along without it too. Rather a nonsensical claim to make.
I'm afraid your biblical version of history is mythical and irrelevant to what happened in the past.
You mean the same god of the bible people called upon for justification when they burned witches at the stake in Salem, or slaughtered Muslims in the Crusades and heretics with the Inquisition? That god of goodness?
The book is a historical reference, with non biblical cross check references. So, are all those other written texts mythical also? Why are they irrelevant? Are you certain what happened in the past to make that claim, Q?
You are mistaken. The book is largely inaccurate in historical matters and there are severely limited and doubtful references to your mythical savior outside this book.
It is a historical record of an outdated, outmoded, irrational, war mongering belief system that continues to cause conflicts to this day - but that is about it.
Your ISM is alive and well 21.
If Christians could just read the book that they say that they live by, there wouldn't be a problem!!!!
If Christians could just believe the things that is written in their bible that is said that Jesus said ????? there would not be a problem.
If I am a follower of Jesus why do I not believe anything that he said??????
I tell ya why....
Jesus’ students said something that enables us to come to a conclusion other than what Jesus said.
Therefore what Jesus said don't mean nothing cause the "disciples SAID" something that WE are able to "understand" as being something other than what Jesus said.
If there are any serious Christians out there we need to talk.
Thinking about kidnapping some one and actively looking for some one to kidnap are two entirely different things.
But - let's face it - what is really important is fighting to justify what your book says.
i dont think you add anything to this conversation. Seems like you are trying to become important by your insistent intrusion into christian conversations when you really are playing satan. If you need people to understand your point of view then you must not be sure of your position on the matter or you need confirmation because you only add an opinion and everybody has one of those and something else to.
Mirror mirror on the wall........
Of course you don't think I add anything the conversation. I think all scripture should be turned inwards at one's self and not used to point a finger at others. Which is not going to go down well with yourself is it?
you are not even on topic. You made your own topic. And are hoggin up a lot of space with useless banter.
Cagsil and all of you, adultery, according to Jesus, is a matter of desire and/or action. That's what Matthew 5:27, 28 is all about, just like self-centered anger being equal to murder in verses 21 and 22. The point is that we're all guilty and need God's forgiveness. Why would he forgive us with all our imperfections? His forgiveness is free and unconditional apart from our worthiness and effort. Our rightful Judge, God the Father, enables us to receive Jesus' perfect life and his sacrifice in our place by his Holy Spirit. The result is that he accepts us inspite of our imperfections and declares us "not guilty" and right with him only because of Jesus, not anything in us.
Then, he enables Us, in the same way, to make progress in overcoming selfish anger and lust. I was bitter for 43 years at God and people in my life and wasn't even aware of my anger, which developed into seven years of the disease of depression. The very short version is that God used psychological means to get me in touch with my bitterness and express it to God in prayer. For 8 1/2 months I had it out with God as he came close to me and finally gave me the peace that passes understanding about my past (Philippians 4:6, 7) and took away my depression. The past did not change, but God changed me by taking away my anger about it. God does answer prayer!
And it comes back to the desires outside your own self. If you can't see yourself as whole then you will look outward seeking fulfillment elsewhere. Adultery is another description for a covetous act. It's another term, like many where greed overtakes man, and there is a need to satisfy ones own lack of self worth. (Man means human, just so there is no confusion).
God is always concerned about the state of ones heart. In the heart all sins have root. It doesnt matter if no touching happened or even if flirtatious banter occured, the lust occured and therefore the individual was not walking in the spirit but was walking in the flesh, which is something god wants to root out of all those whom are willing to comply. My emphasis was on the word adultery.
How can we not walk in the flesh when we are flesh and blood? You make it sound as though God doesn't want people to be human. You may be able to control your actions but can you really control what you find attractive/feel lust for? It's not really a conscious choice is it...?
Those who walk in the spirit do not lust after the things of the flesh. Theres a huge difference between the two and yes its a struggle, satisfaction stemming from walking in the spirit, not the flesh. The spirit is so freeing but it takes constant monitoring and connection with christ. Prayer helps here. I used to smoke cigarettes and pot, both are gone, cigarettes was harder to quit than pot and occasionally cigs tries to possess me again through temptation, a quick prayer staves off the craving and victory occurs! simple really. Its all part of commitment. We choose to be with god and therefore we do those things that please him. 1/2 a commitment = doing half the things that please god. Conscience is what differs us from animals, that and fur and a tail.. etc. hehe.
Jane, we may not be able to control our desires by our own willpower, but God gives us his power to gain Jesus' victory more and more in this life and perfectly in the next life through our union with Jesus. We don't become God because we are his creatures. However, he enables believers to share in his power to become more like Jesus. (Please read my other responses here.)
Brotheryochanan, praise the one true God that the Father gives you the power through Jesus by the Holy Spirit to overcome addictions. He helped me to overcome addiction to TV and sports when I began praising him for his creation of humans displayed in sports and on TV. That way, he centered my attention on him, not on himself, when he brought to my attention 1 Corinthians 10:3, "So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory [honor] of God."
Man oh man! Am I gonna have alota company in hell!
some body bring the cards. I'll bring the booze and dry ice.
I'll notify the "Bunny Ranch" in Nevada...they'll be happy to oblige with cuties we won't have to just lust for.
I'm sure that god/allah will provide us with a few virgins too..maybe we can entice god/allah to sit for a few hands'a Texas poker and after a drunken soiree we'll invite him to join us in a rollicking menage a trois...eh? Sounds like a blast to me! Who's for it? All you guys say AYE!..OR yer all liars and wussys....lol :-)
has anyone here thought how wonderful for a relationship to be that strong and that healthy that a couple do not need to be in lust as they might say.
I think that word do evolved in meaning in different social times and in different cultures
Before the book was re-written the word woman was not there. Instead it was a reference to not be looking upon a camel in such a manner!
Hi PD, how are you?
in some culture men like their wives to sleep with other men so that they will be experienced, as in other culture there is sharing -- I dont know how they term it -- wife swapping, what is permissible to other culture is not to others ---
Hi Maita... I think they call it Commiting to your Partner
Theres only one culture i respect and thats gods culture. Yes there are many cultures that choose to do different things but thats not an excuse just a fact. Somewhere i read in gods word we are not even to mingle with other cultures but keep the ways of god pure, so i don't really care what other cultures do... i just wanted my question answered.
You are buying into separation here and become hypocritical of the intended meaning of 'God's" word. God's culture is all encompassing and does not segregate the Muslim from the Christian, or the Hindu from the Muslim, or the Buddhist from the Communist. This push to separate Christians as superior to the rest of humankind is the main reason Atheism is as strong as it is. When you do not understand the richness of other cultures, you are ignorant. God is not ignorant, it is all encompassing. You CANNOT call yourself a true Christian and remain separate in mind, heart and spirit. It just doesn't work.
You seriously need to understand the depth of meaning that is in front of you and stop the nonsense of thinking you are superior. A closed mind is clogged with a lot of conditioning, a lot of crap really.
To not 'mingle' with other cultures - is to completely go against the principles of ANYTHING divine.
ps 106:35, lev 20:24, Ezra 9:1, Isaiah 59:2, Math 25:32.
my personal favorite: 2 Corinthians 6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,
and of course.... 1 Corinthians 5:6 Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.
Gods culture is not all encompassing, i disagree, heaven is a restricted society, first by the sacrifice of jesus and through salvation, secondly, by sinlessness and thirdly by loving god, which is the god of the bible.
Your 'divine' is not the god of the bible, it is some man made fallacy that precludes the god i worship and borders on creation worship....
Deuteronomy 17:3 And hath gone and served other gods,
and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of
the host of heaven, which I have not commanded.
.....something god told us not to do. You may value energies and powers but those belong to god, put in place by god and not worthy of serving as a god entity.
I think this reply you made was formed quickly out of reaction and not thought about carefully. You seriously need to understand more about christianity before you speak as you have and although i agree your 'divine' may indeed be all encompassing, I would like to assure you my divine god is not so inclined.
Nope, I thought long and hard over many years. Your interpretation of your text is not divine. So your thinking that my thinking was formed quickly was ill-thought.
couldn't be, yours is not scriptural, mine is. By gods divine word i win.
And this thinking is why your religion will always, always cause division, hatred, conflict and ill will. Perhaps even provoking the final conflict - which is what seems to be your goal.
I can understand why you are so very angry, but what benefit do you derive from "winning."?
Although I disagree, I am genuinely interested because a lot of people seem to think they are "winning," when they argue in this fashion - the fact that you do not understand the book you quote from doesn't really "win" anything except hatred and ill will, and was one of the deciding factors when I looked at the bible as a possible source of information and discarded the idea of an actual, personal god. These threads are littered with arguments and fights, some of which become very personal, and in my own experience can turn physical - not just between believers and non believers,. but the various interpretations of this book of yours.
Would the perfect word of god really cause this much conflict? Surely not. Thus - one can only draw the reasonable conclusion that god does not exist. Or - if He does - hes got some 'splanin' to do.
The word of god, jesus said, "will divide father, mother, son and daughter, nations and kingdoms".
So when i speak from the bible, whether you believe it accurate or not, it is not I who cause the division but quite often it is the seedy and tawdry remarks from unbelievers, who disregard the word of god and claim to have checked into it and discovered what millions of christians and myself included, know to be false and that is mostly the nature of the things they retort.
I spoke from the word of god and i will always win that way because you cannot argue with the word of god no matter what you think. Whether i say win or not, it is the truth. Winning is not the key point but giving a good answer to the question that so many unbelievers who jump into the forum are totally unqualified to give. You're disgruntlements and offenses do not even bother me. I could care less, that you think you know the scriptures better than me and i will stand behind a podium and refute this assertion of yours.
Your perception of division is created from your own standpoint and you cause it. Think not?. Why do you post what you post in the christian forums? Has anything you have said been uniting? edifying? cheery or good? NOPE.
And then by your great wisdom you say i cause division.
Good luck to you mr. intellectual thinker you deceive yourself and not me.
If you want unity in the forums then stay out of them.
I don't know where you perceived anger from, but then again you got offended at my mentioning unsaved, so as i cannot predict your reaction i will not even bother too do so.
The fact that you discard an actual personal god could not be farther from the truth. Open a question in hubpages and ask the christians if we think we have a personal relationship with God through jesus christ. Overwhelmingly you will receive the answer, yes.
Actually this is one of the most intelligent and polite posts that I have read of yours, In my opinion. Thanks for your effort and kindness.
Let me comment to this one statement that you made
You said ... "Would the perfect word of god really cause this much conflict? Surely not. Thus - one can only draw the reasonable conclusion that god does not exist.
the product of that reasoning is flawed.
The only conclusion that one might come to based upon your reasoning is that either the book is flawed or our interpretation is incorrect.
A book written about you is wrong therefore you do not exist???
That would be inaccurate reasoning.
Golly! I masturbate.
There isn't a guy in this forum who hasn't. If he says he doesn't, he's a liar!
Now if ya masturbate what are ya thinking about? Aren't ya lusting for "action" with one gender or the other?
Well, for goodness sakes! it seems that all us guys are sinners and will burn in hell!
Damn! This god thing, being omniscient, knew when he created us and created "woman" that 'horny" guys who want to "procreate"
(go forth and multiply) would have chronic erections lusting for the ladies.
Now'cmon, what "daddy" would punish his kids by buring 'em in an eternal fire for just doing what he set em up to do, knowing full well they would?
I know what kind of "daddy'd" do that! An insane "daddy."
You couldn't be more carnally minded and farther from the truth if you tried to be. Maybe you could, but you have just revealed that you know absolutely nothing about god, what god can do, hell, or that even you still have a chance at salvation. No wonder you are angry at god. No offense intended, i will explain even though it is OFF TOPIC! sigh.
1) in eden god did not say go forth and multiply that was said after they were expelled from the garden. You see in a spirit mentality, sex is not foremost important. People look at each other with respect. Lust is not even a topic, this is one of the reasons i dont believe angels mated with humans.
2) Hell is not burning forever and ever. Its uncomfortable while waiting to be terminated once and for all. Realising that god is judging you is gonna be hard to handle indeed. But death and hell are thrown into the lake of fire where extermination occurs but in the meantime you wait and ponder until god is finished with sin and the souls of sinners and finishes the whole thing completely, because seriously, what does it profit god to have souls wailing and suffering for 200,000 yrs... thats a catholic fear doctrine and is quite unscriptural.
See already you begin to comprehend that you might have a few things not exactly right, like bunches of other people. You're not bad just deceived by bad press. I like you more already
3) I used to be addicted to internet porn, now im not. gods work not mine. His power and his spirit and my willingness to let him change me. I didnt even install my porn blocker on this new operating system. Sorry to see windows 2000 not supported any longer, thanks microsoft. I dont like vista much.
4) I can look super hot babes in the eyes and control myself. Sometimes i have to pray that i not fantasize afterward, but thats NOT the wrong, the wrong is if i allow myself to go with the flesh and lust and fantasize about laying some pipe. But i don't go there. I may have to witness to her and gettin all hard over her would be a conflict of interest. Christian girls are babes and one day, maybe, perhaps, i will partner with one. No hurry i have my plate full for now. I am exactly where god wants me to be.
Reading these responses makes it obvious to students of religious history that those who chronically say:
"jesus said" are but easily led followers. They are not learned thinkers.
If they were, they'd know that NO ONE knows what this jesus said.
The stories they read in the NT are just that.
They are stories so corrupted by time and interpretation that there is not word of the NT that is credible.
Of course "followers" of religious fiction will, in extremely bigoted manner, proclaim, in abject ignorance, that I am wrong.
That is expected and understood.
i have no problem with them thinking they live in the "isles-of-the-blessed" as long as they are peaceful and don't try to convert others to living a life of self induced idiocy. :-)
ever read homers the illiad? or shakespeare? odd how nobody thinks these written works are corrupted over the years. But infallible god can't keep watch over his own book. A belief structure like this sounds more like self induced idiocy to me. :-) (see above, this is a quote)
Did you ever read about the demise of the Spanish Armada. Rome sent the armada to england because england had separated. On-board were catholics armed with their catholic bibles with apocrypha, oh and men of war too. They were to take back england by force and of course permeate their catholic religion as was the normal course of duty.
Well the worst storm in all of history to that day was recorded bashing the spanish fleet around like silly little plastic boats in a jacuzzi. The wind blew contrary to the course the ships were to take and a plaque remains to this day with the words, "The wind blew and God won the war". Google that.
I am not an atheist, agnostic, deist or a believer in mythical supernatural divinities.
I'm going to ask you 1 question, if you can answer it for me in a form other than opinion, I will consider that you might be one who could convert me to whatever "it" is you believe in.
Here we go:
Q. What is this god thing you speak of?
Remember now, I will not accept opinion.
If you fail and can only offer opinion, then I must add you to my list of those who are not credible, who are but mindless followers and not worthy of consideration in ref to what they offer, in this forum, about this god thing...fair?
Go for it. :-)
I cannot properly define 'thing' as in god thing... can u be more specific. I dont want to be describing an aspect of god when you mean the 'christian walk'.
I'll accept your challenge, but define thing for me please
You answered my question with a question.
I speak and write english very well. Made it thru many yrs of college using it.
My question was quite clear and the intent obvious.
If you have a problem with English I suggest you educate yourself.
You have just been added to my list of "not worthy of response" list."
I'm sure that after reading this you are thinking "big deal."
You'd be right. It's not a big deal.
I have not, in close to 40 yrs of asking that question, been able to get a straight, honest answer from any "christian" bigot.
Your response just fell in line with all the others.
Ty for your reply. :-)
Well try defining it better then.
Someone who's as educated as you can surely come up with a better description than "thing". I mean c'mon. If other people have had trouble answering this question maybe you ought to rephrase it.
anyway do as you will... there's enough stuff written here to persuade even those that don't have ears to hear.
@ all believers in Jesus Christ
Stop and think for a minute, if a believer were to enter a blog session held by unbelievers or perhaps satanist and began to imply the Word of God as Truth, don't think for one minute that you WOULD NOT become the target of their curses and be stoned with their words. So why should we as believers scold those who create confusion among our blogs with OUR words. If we resist the urge to answer their foolish talk and unknowing to them, UNITE TOGETHER IN PRAYER for them, these persons who exalt themselves against the knowledge of God must flee!!! "Submit yourselves, then, to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you." (James 4:7)
You are a perfect..PERFECT..example of that which I speak of in my last response...TY for your assistance in making my point! :-)
Id really like to be able to delete irrelevant and irreverant posts by people who... oh yah... we can't attack people here or they cry and call the management.... just so you all know (and you all know who you are) my silence is not approval of your childish behavior and i say childish not to be rude.
There is evidence of childishness
1) you can't answer the question but you have an answer to some other question from somewhere else.
2) you just spout opinion without any backup
3) assumptive slander.
4) unthoughtful comments that wouldn't stump a 4th grader.
5) you start your own topic disregarding the original topic.
6) no matter what the topic you use the same lame statements for all your responses, no originality.
Clearly i need to hear from adults that didnt sniff glue as a hobby and aren't led about by their overstuffed egos and can actually comprehend a question adequately enough to actually answer the question.
Thanks to all those who assisted and answered the question with dignity.
A completely narrow-minded, tunnel-visioned view keeps the dark, as usual.
A blinding example of one's own inadequate ability to understand their own religion. Much less Life.
And, to think others have always an ego?
What is it with the religious folk who always think it's an "ego" problem? They cannot even get over their own to have a conversation of any value.
No wonder why so many people feel that religion is a delusion to others. Because, in the end, it is. Ironic.
This is psychologically disturbing: Being called childish by a person who believes in the SKY DADDY! This must be a parallel universe.
May God bless you and you and you and you. Now be Glory, Honor and Power to the only wise God both now and forever Amen. Jesus loves you and so do I!!!!
Ouch! All this is starting to make my head pound!
Lets try to get it straight from the main question. Adultery is presumably two consenting adults agreeing to go behind at least one otherwise significant others back.
fornication is pretty much anything perverted whether a third person or party is involved or not.
Idolotry as in looking at a woman, is perhaps, and correct me if I'm wrong. Just looking for its own sake and thinking wow! And forgetting what some-one wisely said on this post about the woman being brought to the man. Idolatry could also therefore be giving the woman too much power like feminism and political correctness etc.
Somewhere in this mix was the thought that men cannot be blamed in this time because these days women are allowed to dress very differently. Some barely dress at all!
What if you lust after a chicken?, there's some quite weird people out there!!
lust is wrong if its after anything. You kinda avoided my initial question. I hope i answered yours.
I think just lusting after a chicken, horse, sheep or mountain goat is probably ok, but on no account take it further.
In the OT inter-species sex is punishable by death... for you and the chicken. However..it's not mentioned at all in the NT, so it's possible God loosened up on this. I'm not sure...you might be alright.[I'm not fooled by that "there's some weird people"...I know it's you who's hot for that chicken]
Honestly I believe God deals with us on our intellectual level so I feel God would say those things which we could understand and not confuse us with verbiage which he knows would only cause confusion.
Oh Lord Please forgive me for I know not what I do, .... When I go shooting my mouth off just cause I thought it.
It just occured to me....
In Genessis Lucifer falls from grace and him and 1/3 of the angels were cast out of heaven.
Adam and Eve are in the garden of Eden (Paradice) and they fell out of Gods grace and had to leave the garden of Eden.
It just struck me odd how similar those too stories were?????
Could the garden of Eden/paradice be another reference to heaven??
Could these two stories be two diffrent ways to describe the same event.
Are we the desendents of those fallen angels???
Like I said I'm just thinking out loud.
Lord forgive me for I know not what I do.
Jerami, you are closer than you think.
Remembering the host were witness to mans creation and testified he was made. It was that stasis -aka the garden- where earth united with heaven. Before and even after the fall, humans could still 'see' into the heavenly realm for years, just not enter it. Hence the fiery sword.
Both events are said to be the same, in that the angel tried to alter what he was created to be. In his failure, he conjures the idea that since man is both heaven and earth, he will use man to exalt himself to that place. He convinced man to be like the Father, knowing -having knowledge- of both good/evil. This causes man to fall from what he was created to be as well.
Next, he uses his comrades to try and create a race of half earth half heaven -like Adam was originally. This turned into a genetic nightmare! The plan backfired three times. Still, he thought he was the ruler of the earth, forever, since he gave man these 'gifts' and man would serve him, instead of him serving man. He even went so far as to offer Y`shua ALL the kingdoms of earth if he would worship him...
Not a mistake at all. To do anything else would violate his own being and laws of choice and also free will. Humans should desire to obey freely, give freely and also -very important- receive freely. this is covenant.
Wow! That is a lot of mental illness right there!
So like the bible makes clear this god is a psychopath right?
People don't often look up the meaning of the word "woman" in this verse, but it literally means wife. If you look upon someone's wife with lust in your heart, you have committed adultery with her in your heart. Makes sense to me.
Fornication, on the other hand comes from the Greek work porneuo, or even eporneusan. So, anyone who engages in or views porn is guilty of fornication, married or unmarried.
by ngureco 7 years ago
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