Do you think that if a baby dies without being baptized, it's soul ends up in Hell? And if you do, What are your means for justification?
Too many assumptions to be made to give an accurate answer.
too little time spent to give an even slightly intelligent response
some of us who are in the bible have really good answers for this sort of thing. Whereas i noticed those who think they have all the answers and study not the book give cutesy one liners and bow out with a
Interesting you say that, considering everything you spout out of your mouth is completely based on assumption. Get a life.
How did you get out of the bible if you were in it?
Real devotee of God feels compassion to other living beings. He is praying sincerely to God. " My dear Lord, let me suffer for all the sins of my beloved brothers here in this world, please take them home with you and put all their sinful reaction unto me."
Unfortunately many so-called spiritual preacher nowadays don't feel real compassion and love towards other. They become a puppet of their arrogant trip that they know the scripture and real spiritual life. They feel anger toward someone who don't believe in what they say rather than experiencing compassion and love toward that someone. (We can honestly check it in our heart how we feel). We experience love towards our father and mother but for someone who disrespect us, we don't feel the same instead we feel hatred. but we keep on representing Jesus Christ covered by arrogance that im a devotee of Christ. But in reality we are not because we are not loving our enemy. We are not feeling that it worth dying to save the one who disrespect me or my enemies. If we feel like this then we are a real Christian a follower of Christ.
Everyone here is debating the salvation of unbaptized children but no one is crying to God that "May i take all the suffering of all this unbaptized children and let those children be happy with you". This is the happiness of a devotee of God to see others happy with God. May all of us here feels like this and feel real concern towards others and not with arrogant trips of thinking im the best preacher here. Thank you very much.
Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.
All children get to go to heaven. I can't imagine any one not believing other wise.
please understand, Baptism does not save you, acceptance of Christ is the saving grace. Baptism is a deed and action (Creado Baptism, or statement of creed. Circumcision was profession of Jewish faith and Baptism was the gentile confession of faith. serving as a public demonstration of the transformation. Baptism itself will do nothing to obtain salvation.
2 Timothy 1:9
Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began.
Babies (this also applies to mentally disabled) have not reached the age of discernment and can not make a conscious decision between right and wrong, there fore they are free from Judgment and covered under the arms of Christ. As for aborted Babies, they are still souls that belong to Christ and therefore are included with the innocent.
So, are you saying Baptism is not required in order to enter Heaven??
(please answer! My life in Heaven may depend on it!! lol)(seriously joking, here, lol)
lol...sadly no, Baptism is a public confession of an internal decision and commitment to God through Christ. On the Cross Christ told the man whom accepted him "Today you will be with em in heaven...when would he have been baptized. He received the holy spirit then and it was that acceptance, which provided passage into eternity.
Then I say your answer isn't sad at all.
Baptism isn't required. Yay!! I home free!
(thanks! I couldn't find the answer myself and it really felt like too stupid a question to ask a Preacher or whatever. lol)
Never worry over the validity of questions, its the ones unanswered that may be the most important.
I don't mean to but in but there is no "home free." Our mortal bodies are because of Christ. Eventually the ordinance of physical baptism must be borne. Does that discriminate, not at all, for all things have opportunity and will be done in his time. It's our day to day choices and all things we are accountable of that bears our salvation. Yes, baptism does not "assure" salvation but it is an eventual necessity which accompanies knowledge and personal choice to enter such a fold.
Hi Goldenpath, welcome to this portion of the discussion. As for your comment: yes here on earth we are expected to make a public profession of faith, Christ said "Matthew 10:32,33 32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven. So yes we are to be baptized but as a profession before man of our commitment. It has no bearing on Salvation, as Baptisum is a work and we can not earn our way into heaven by works and deeds.
I respect your position and faith. According to the agency of man and liberty I do disagree on a couple of points. Our deeds are who we are. They are a product of our choices and the "co-designer" of our eternal mansions above. The scripture that tells us that we are not saved by deeds and works alone is referring to the Law of Moses. Not by the deeds and works of the Law of Moses alone are we saved. It's just a difference of opinion. I respect both just the same.
You may not appreciate my term of 'home free' but it's a feeling to me. You believe baptism is necessary, someone else thinks it isn't. Right now, today, I'm choosing to go along with the person who thinks it isn't.
If I'm wrong, I'll find out after I die.
It is true that the tendency of man is to take the road of least resistence. To be taught that you are unaccountable and answerable to no one is appealing to many. However, to accept a life of change in both mind and body and to offer that life to Him in the spirit of faith, hope and charity is often seen as not accomplishable or too hard or just plain not appealing. The question is actually which road will eventually lead to a more productive and fulfilling life?.....
I think you have this whole thought the wrong way around. To abdicate responsibility to a set of ancient orally transmitted morals written onto a collection of partly missing parchments - is irresponsible to humanity. To be accountable and responsible for our actions for human reasons is the correct road' ethics not morals.
christianity the bible/jesus/where do unbaptized babies go? forum. Hmm ancient orally transmitted morals written onto a collection of partly missing parchments is what we do The correct road for your reply is down the hupages block a bit and over two columns.
True, we will learn after we die. However, that does not make us immune to lost opportunities in life when the Voice within was prompting us to take a higher road. Yes, we'll learn but we will still be answerable to the choice we made not to listen.
And how do you know whether or not I listen to the Voice within?
The Voice wasn't telling me about baptism, that's why I asked. I believe most people listen to the Voice while others resist. Most people call it a Conscience.
Thank you for answering my question, but I'm not looking to be preached to.
No harm, no foul.
All questions are valid. Though the answers may have sounded "preachy" they were only meant as answers. Actually, whether academic, religious or even asking about a recipe are we not looking to be "preached" to? When we ask we are looking for answers. We are humbling ourselves to be teachable. We are preparing ourselves to be preached to. Preach is to teach and encompasses a wider spectrum than just religious.
Not in any dictionary I've ever seen. Preaching and teaching are not the same thing at all.
I don't agree with you, especially on a forum where personal views are unknown to others until after a severely long time.
I also don't agree that your answers were only meant as answers - they were meant to persuade and I'm not falling for it because I'm not looking to be preached to. I asked one question that deserved one answer, not anything else given out of the kindness of your heart that I didn't ask for.
I also believe that by asking a question and receiving an answer I (and many other people in the world) am capable of learning what it is I want to learn. No preaching or teaching necessary.
I think the age of discernment comes at a different time for different people. I have been told it was at age 12 because that was how old Jesus was when he preached.
I was visiting a church when I was 17. When service ended the preacher "literally" backed me into a corner telling me I was a sinner. At that time I didn't understand, I thought the man was a total nut because I didn't sin! Since I didn't understand at that time, I don't think I was accountable. Jesus hadn't spoken to my heart yet.
Is Abraham, Moses or Noah a Christian or being baptized as a Christian?
my point is they are all lovers of God and if we also love God regarding our sect or religion then we can go back home to the kingdom of God and PLAY with Him. God is Supremely Lovable dont be afraid of HIm.
Your point is heresy, concerning the bible, not all roads lead to rome or god. The father cannot deny the son and the son is inseparable from the father. Jesus is the way and the door and no one can go another way.
John 10:9 "I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture".
John 10:1 "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber".
This is why christians are not so haha all the time, You are on a very slippery path that doesn't lead to the god of the bible. God is lovable but also he separates sheep from goats, sinners from believers.
Baptism is an interesting topic. There is a case to debate, for and against water baptism, since pentecost. Christ died on the cross but pentecost was 40 days later. I believe that is truly when the new dispensation fully kicked in. 40 is a number that denotes a span of time between many endings and beginnings. joseph to the exodus, 400 yrs and the silent time between O & T covenants.
Baptism does not save a person. Confession with the voice unto god asking forgiveness and then repenting (metanoi "change of mind", metamelomai "change of attitude", greek) saves a person.
This water baptism is a further expression of a continued life in christs ways. It is an outward expression, or a ritual of the type we are mostly done away with - Lords supper excluded.
Salvation by a baby is just not possible. The baby cannot complete metanoi. Therefore no baby is ever saved or person for that fact, UNTIL they can comprehend, "that all have sinned and sin separates from god and we need to invite god into our lives, for he never pushes himself upon us or forces us and we need to change our lives from self and flesh-serving to god-serving.
This is one of the reasons i believe hell is not "forever and ever burning in torment". The soul and righteousness factor of a baby i cannot judge neither do i have an opinion about, god will have to decide that in the proper time, but for any baby to suffer eternally in hell, I do not believe MY god will be pleased with such a situation.
" Salvation by a baby is just not possible. The baby cannot complete metanoi. Therefore no baby is ever saved or person for that fact, UNTIL they can comprehend, "that all have sinned and sin separates from god and we need to invite god into our lives, for he never pushes himself upon us or forces us and we need to change our lives from self and flesh-serving to god-serving.
This is one of the reasons i believe hell is not "forever and ever burning in torment". The soul and righteousness factor of a baby i cannot judge neither do i have an opinion about"
If you can not judge the soul of the baby, then how can you judge it's salvation? Who are you to determine what is and isn't possible? Is God's love and compassion limited by your interpretation of Biblical text?
I wish people could comprehend what they read or just be quiet
lol.. it' great to wish for things, isn't it?
Since you shared your hopes, let me share with you my wishes..
I wish that the 'born again' evangelical fanatics among us would start reading the Bible with their hearts, instead of flipping the pages while it is lodged firmly in their behinds.
Although they might feel that they are specialists on Biblical subjects simply because they have no life to speak of other than time they spend misinterpreting the Bible, while this hobby might fuel their perceived right to be condescending, I wish that they stop becoming so heretical in their wacky interpretations of the Good Book that they make the atheists among us seems almost angelic.
I wish that they would realize time spent 'reading' the Bible doesn't equal to knowledge of God.. if that were the case then Jesus wouldn't have had such a hard time with the religious leaders of his day.
As far as this particular subject matter is concerned, although I am not Catholic, I would agree with that Church's view that "God has bound salvation to the sacrament of Baptism, but he himself is not bound by his sacraments... As regards children who have died without Baptism, the Church can only entrust them to the mercy of God, as she does in her funeral rites for them. Indeed, the great mercy of God who desires that all men should be saved, and Jesus' tenderness toward children which caused him to say: 'Let the children come to me, do not hinder them.'
I'm sorry, but would you be so glib about your response if YOU were that baby that couldn't be saved, because of the conditions you just outlined? Don't tell me you wouldn't beg for pardon and mercy from whatever god made such a heinous, stupid law.
The more laws we have the more law breakers there are.
Surely principles and values come into your scope of view somewhere. And if so, do they include salvation for babies DESPITE this idiotic law you spout?
P.S. Don't email me. It's just something for you to ponder. I don't care to know what else is in your head.
Amen! PeppermintPaddy ... I couldn't have said it better myself.
Hmmmmmmm ! and what about the foetus in a miscarriage, no way to get that baptised ? I guess there is a baby hell screaming somewhere in eternity then ?
I would add aborted babies to the list as well.
You would be guessing wrong, unless you can relate to a god who enjoys all types of humans screaming in hell forever and ever, which is NOT the god of the bible, it may be the god of catholicism but hey when did they ever get anything to do with god, correct?
God does not delight in the death of the wicked.
Ezekiel 33:11 Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?
my guess would be that god might try again with that life and hopefully it will get a proper chance. this is not reincarnation this is god trying to get a soul to live for a first time.
This is why I have such a problem with some so-called "Christian" sects.
ANY religion that can consign an innocent unborn child to hell or limbo through no fault of its own - words fail me.
I agree with you, however not all sects of Christianity believe the same thing about where deceased babies go.
So long as you stand on the outside of christianity looking in you can't very well change anything can you.
If you knew the scriptures you would find that to be a wrong conclusion, but luckily, people who aren't just content to be told whats in the scriptures are actually spending huge amounts of time discovering what the bible actually says. Although i can find no direct script to quote about this particular situation, i can say, that god loves and judges fairly. God is powerful and can try again with that same life or just cause that life not to exist at all, as if it never were born (hence no punishment but no reward either, sometimes the actions of the parents do fall upon the children, even the unborn children. God could not unjustly cause a baby to be in hell because it is not in god to be so. This I did not get from a scripture necessarily but i perceive that gods spirit will remain untainted in this and any situation.
Neither Jesus nor the Apostles gave any instructions about infant baptism. The Bible does tell us that God is gracious, merciful and just; that he will not condemn a soul for the sins of their fathers; and the only thing necessary for salvation is Jesus and his blood shed on the cross for our sins. Although the Bible does not say so, most Christian theologians posit an age of accountability. So from these ideas from the Bible and other Bible scholars I would say a child who dies without being baptized will not be condemned to hell.
It is a wonderful thing that religious denominations really have no power to say who goes to hell and who does not.
I'm kinda thinking that if I go around thinking that this person is going to hell and that guy over there is also...
If anything... I condemning myself instead of them????
In large part we chose certain circumstances that we would be born to prior to our mortal existence. There were vast numbers who proved themselves among the most valiant of spirits in the war in heaven that their salvation was all but assured. They only needed a physical body in their eternal progression. Because of their righteousness enmity was placed between Satan and them. Satan has no power over them. Yes, all must be baptized whether in person or vicariously in order to enter the presence of the Father. However, in these instances those details will eventually come to fruition. Revelation tells us that the body will fill the measure of it's spirit. This is true with these precious children. They will come forth in the Millenium in infant form so that their bodies will grow to fill the measure of their mature spirit. The grand promise of this is that they will then grow without any temptation or sin and will have knowledge that we cannot even dream of.
This is why my hub on the subject is not often viewed. This perspective of absolute hope and promise of those in impoverished circumstances in mortality is not well received.
Ya know, that's something I don't understand....IF we choose our parents before conception/birth, then why would anyone choose to be born of non-believers? Or, choose to be born to a couple from the wrong religion?
(lol, assuming, of course, that there is a wrong religion)
And, if we make this choice prior to our birth, then why do some people grow up and change their minds about religion/faith/spirituality/church? It doesn't make sense to me.....
We chose certain circumstances, not details, of our mortality. We don't choose with certainty our parents and have one of them decide to commit suicide prior to even knowing the mother. The "circumstances" are where God places us according to our valiance to Him in the pre-existence. Our spirits are something that He knows infinitely better than we do. If our spirit is strong He has faith that our choices will guide us in this life even if we are born to unfaithful or unsavory parents. His hand is in the Plan at all times. According to the choices of the children of men the Plan for each of us is relatively modified to lead us in the right direction for our spiritual measure.
Thanks? But, it doesn't really seem to clarify...I feel more confused about it.
Maybe you're a different religion (?) than the one I'm thinking of, or I remember the info incorrectly.
What I remember hearing about Mormons is they choose their parents before conception/birth. I thought that's what you were saying. You say, here, that we choose our circumstances but then say God places us according to the strength of our spirit.
No offense, but none of it makes sense to me. Why would anyone choose to be born to non-believers or why would God place babies with non-believers?
Don't get me wrong, I think the idea is fascinating. But, it doesn't make sense.
If you were among the elite of Christ who whole-heartedly stood against the liberty-stripping enticings of Satan in the realm of spirits you would then know the ends from the means. You would know that mortality is but a pin prick in the scope of eternity and that you would accept any post on earth with full faith that your spirit would heed to the voice of the Spirit in directing you all your days.
Eternal families are contingent upon our choices. Consider what I mentioned before about children coming forth in the Millenium. Now, the joy of parents who have lost children is that they are promised those children to raise IF they are worthy of it. They children will grow, but will the biological parents raise that child? It's totally up to the agency of the parents. Either way those precious children will grow with worthy parents.
Either way those precious children will grow with worthy parents.
Okay, you lost me here again, but that's okay. I mean, seriously, I don't think a 14 day old baby with a skull fracture is set to grow with worthy parents.
So, what you're saying is - it doesn't really matter because everyone will end up in Heaven anyway? I can live with that.
Wow! I must have really lost you. Definitely not everyone goes to heaven. That would go against the agency of man. Our choices determine where we go. A child with a skull fracture does not decide to be born as a baby destined to have a skull fracture at fourteen months. That spirit in counsel with the Father accepted a post in mortality that would be free from the affects of evil upon their spirit and that it would mean a shortened mortality before arriving at the age of accountability. This they did because of a much larger post that spirit is to fill outside the realms of earth.
You didn't lose me - somewhere in this forum I stated I wasn't looking to be preached to.
btw - there are some people out there who believe everyone goes to Heaven, eventually.
I AM SORRY Rafini, I have to stand on the scriptures previous;y Quoted: John 10:9 "I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture".
John 10:1 "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber" John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Hi Goldenpath - I have acquired some respect for your thinking on a range of topics generally - but do you realise just how crazy you and must65gt sound ? Some off the wall science fiction and horror stuff sounds more convincing than the descriptions of your metaphysical world where you cannot 'know' anything and yet you fabricate walls and rooms and temples and laws and who will get what etc etc
And YET, through it all I have respected other beliefs and thought processes because I believe in the freedom and agency of man and it's not my place to put down those views. And YET, I and those of my faith are continually condescended upon simply because our views are the pinnacle of hope and endless possibilities of man. Now who's the crazy one????? Is it still me simply because I don't put visible finite lines on each side of mortality?
I don't care how my views sound to you or anyone else. It matters not. They work for me and others just as yours works for someone else. At least take a common road of mine and don't openly presume absolute knowledge of all things or that another's views are fantasy. Simply put, you don't know and to each his own.
Consider this. At least I am offering possible answers to the unending questions posed by mankind. We are constantly seeing those questions here on the forums. At least I offer answers no matter how crazy they may seem. 99% of similar threads start right off with arguments and condescending attitudes and contain no substantive dialogue. At least I offer answers...
Whether I gain respect for my past comments or not is irrelevant. The one mainstay to my own life is that at all times I express myself and answer questions to the utmost honesty of heart - with no reservations. For all those who enjoy frenzy of burning me at a stake at least acknowledge the integrity of my posts. I fully accept that I spark interest out there and I fully accept that some of my views even cause the same people to eventually vex and curse me. It's no matter because when I report on my stewardship in this life I will do so with a conscience void of regret.
So in respect of the purpose of the thread where do unbaptized babies go? In the presence and bosom of the Father. No matter what the details are is this not the basic answer of most Christians out there? To each his own.....
Maybe this is the crux of the whole religion question generally - If we don't know we try to find out, if we can't find out we hypothesise - but religion claims its hypothesis is real. Mankind would be better off if it faced the reality of its own existence rather than living by an outdated, patently ridiculous, hypothesis. It would be better off facing the reality of what is happening in this world to real people rather than building self satisfying mansions in the sky.
lol...Dont group me with other people. I had to look up the scriptures before I responded. and the more pointed comments I made included scriptural reference. By the way, did you know scientist and archeologist have found many great discoveries of our history, they can provide the who, what when and where, but in all their discoveries only the bible provided the why.
I think many other 'books' of ancient religion make the same claim - some of them with more authority and a better philosphical base than any of the various versions of the book re-written by a Roman Official to support the Roman Trading Empire in its conquests and domination.
I noted you didn't quote any...well if you are right in you beliefs then I will have lived a better life because of my beliefs. If you are wrong.....well enough said.
How about some extrapolation on this. You always just drop one liners and leave no link we can look at. If i am just to take your word on it I would rather skip to the next post. C'mon back it up mr.
i underlined the non biblical parts and the parts i didn't underline was because i couldn't understand them.
I think rather because non of this is biblical and until you change your views i hope non of this is ever viewed. In fact it is exactly the kind of false teachings the got the early church worked up. I don't know where or how you get this stuff from but it is devils work. I must reprove your post of darkness. Repent and be saved.
No offense indented brother, but what does a book have to do with a relationship w/ Creator? Did Adam have a book? Moses? Elijah, Shadrack, Esau, Jacob, Abram, Y`shua, Paul, John, Peter, James, Mary, Samuel or any other 'believer'. Truth comes by Spirit ONLY. And since THE Word became flesh, the book becomes irrelevant after reading. The relevance comes by the Spirit.
Truth only comes by Spirit!
"Creator is Spirit; The Spirit testifies that the Word became flesh. The Word of the Father and the Testimony of Y`sha IS the spirit of Prophecy (that is revealing; see Rev 13). The Spirit testifies and the Spirit is Truth.'
"The Spirit testifies WITH our spirit, that we are the children of Creator." [This is how the Word & Testimony is put in you. The word in you produces a seed. The testimony is the fruit of that seed. The Spirit nourishes and cares for that seed and the fruit; it brings the harvest also.]
Else, the Spirit is not in you and therefore no truth abides.
"Those who worship must do so in spirit AND in Truth.
"The word said: I am sending you the Teacher [The Spirit] who will lead you and guide you into ALL Truth".
So, please tell me you are not saying the book is Spirit.
To tell someone to repent for something that they truly feel is truth and are offering that portion to others is a "red flag" sign of excess pride. Arrogance leads man to believe they have all answers and that all other views have no place in the grand scope of things. Also, it is arrogance to believe that the Holy Bible contain ALL of the word. It does not. They are a collection of letters, epistles and records. It is inherently impossible for them of old to have collected all works regarding Jesus Christ and to have compiled them in their entirity without thought of personal gain and power. This is exactly how much doctrine was lost and how much remains out there that is not included in that great work. Just because something is not contained in the Bible does not make it any less true - just not included whether by omission or simple overlook.
For those who are offended by the words of others - to take offense is an inner problem, not outer and cannot be pinned on the person offering those words. To be offended, without understanding and without tolerance is an inner choice and problem. That is good food for thought for many who relish the forum life.
thank god I was baptized - because I was really really babied - (still am) and so if I hadn't been baptized I'd be on my way to somewhere dark and hot - seriously? leave us babes alone! we'll find our way to heaven, or else we'll make heaven all around us, which is what most people do anyway.
I saw "The Omen". That baby I wouldn't mind seeing in hell. Or did it come from hell? Maybe we should ask where babies come from. This baby I'm babysitting is looking at me in an odd way.....helpppp!!!.
Actually, a child as in "Omen" is not possible. All those who chose to follow Satan in the pre-existence were consigned to a state of non-progression. The were cast to earth and serve, as spirits, to tempt and influence us. Physical bodies and mortality were granted to those who chose correctly and is vital to eternal progression. Satan or any of his hosts cannot take a physical form of their own. HOWEVER, they can invade a human being if that being is weak or even willingly submits to it. Still, all their works after that is still that human's choices and not a product of being "Satan" himself or any one of his hosts.
Goo! and that makes about as much sense as any of you! now I remember why I stay out of religion forums! Goo! I say! Goo Goo Goo!
and also never forget the questions unasked!
I think I agree with you!! I shouldn't have entered here.....
Rafini - it's good that you entered here because it gives an opportunity to see that if one does not or cannot explain things simply, chances are it's false. The whole concept of God, Jesus (whom no one mentioned) and heaven should be so simply explained that a child can understand - and that directive is straight from scripture. The end result being, God knows our hearts and knows our understanding and what and when we reach that age.
lol..mylolo you must have missed my comments, with the exception of the comments regarding weather or not one should ask a question, they ALL spoke of Jesus. and if your comment is supported by scripture, why not post it for validation and reference.
Matthew 18:2-3 (English Standard Version)
2: And calling to him a child, he put him in the midst of them 3: and said, "Truly, I say to you, unless you(A) turn and(B) become like children, you(C) will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
There are other referances as well - time is short tonight. Isn't this stating we are to become innocent (unknowing) so our hearts can be open to the promise of the Kingdom of Heaven? Perhaps if one is interested enough they can do a search on "simplicity of scriptures" I'm not here to offend anyone. Just keepin it simple. In reference to Rafini's comment below - if no one can understand it, then why do folks choose to follow it? Admittedly there are things that are very confusing indeed, Putting our trust and faith in Jesus as our Savior ,I don't feel is confusing . Please don't sling mud if you don't agree.
it gives an opportunity to see that if one does not or cannot explain things simply, chances are it's false
Check this out - I'm much too critical to fall for that line. If you think about it, God, Jesus, and Heaven have not been explained simply enough for anyone to understand it, therefore, according to your own statement it has to be false. Sorry, but I think I'd rather believe in God than put my trust in you.
In ALL things the most important thing to remember is that salvation, hope and the unending promise of joy can only be realized through agency or the ability to choose. It is the very basic foundation the entire universe was created. It was the underlying principle in the beginning and is just as effective now. Can it really be any other way?
Consider what makes you happy. Those things that truly fulfilled you are those things that manifested upon your choices and not those things handed to you without the earning. Choices... Choices were made before we came to earth and choices take place with our every breath. Choices will continue to play an intricate role of our very spirit being when our bodies are laid to the earth. The design of our personal Plan of Salvation is to have the liberty at all stages of existence to choose and to make those choices freely given our own experience, desire and hope.
Choices make us accountable. That which we are accountable for will serve to our uplifting our to our undoing.
I assume you mean "unborn" or possibly miscarried. The same applies to them. They were granted a body whether fully formed or not and are granted all the rights and privileges of any of the elite valiant of Christ. This part of the unborn children is not official doctrine of my faith as it has not been revealed yet as to when the spirit enters the body. However, being a parent who has endured such an ordeal I personally opt to trust and believe in the brighter hope. Also, I have felt my son's presence many times and it fills me up with hope.
so, if you felt his presence, then he is here - not anywhere elses. forgive me very much for saying so - but, DUDE! you is zo zseriouszzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz!
all the time! I was making jokez - which I suppose is forbidden in religiouz forumz! also, would like you all to lighten up, the world is made of light! not all so heavy. and the title of this forum makes it seem to be about those who are BABIED! in other words, taken care of so intensely they never grow up.
that I can totally relate to. The rest of this nonsense I cannot even fathom that people truly believe it. to each his own they say.
If you're Catholic there is nothing to discuss, you know exactly where unbaptized babies go... Limbo of course.
I chose not to baptize my son because I believe faith is an adult decision. It's up to him now.
Interesting comment. Technically baptism is a personal decision not one another person can make for someone. Therefore your decision wold be correct. When the time comes, he will make the right decision, your part is to provide an environment in which he will be afforded all the information necessary to make it.
the answer to the original Question, regardless of those whom are only posting to get a response, Babies are covered by the grace of God. Born or unborn. They have not reached the age of discernment (presumably between 10 to 14 depending on their maturity level) and therefore will not be judged. Babies don't go to hell. but based on some of the answers I have seen posted a re-evaluation of individual stances might be in order.... and as far as the "Condemnation to a fiery hell for all eternity" Read Revelations. Hell is separation from God, with no love or compassion.
I beleive babies are automatically saved and that only those who consciously reject God and do not accept Him will not be saved.
But in the end it's God's ruling.
excellent! and theres this scripture:
1 Corinthians 7:14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.
Seems like the parents salvation position has a role to play.
There is no such thing as OLD or NEW testament. This is the problem. Taking Judaic scripts, pressing them with a few correspondences and calling it "THE" end-all-be-all holy word of G/god is ridiculous.
Either you believe THE Word became flesh or You believe the book is THE Word. If you believe the former, great, than as he stated (and even the texts states, The Scripture (or Word) will live inside you, not in a book you carry in a fancy leather case and highlighter set). Else, it is just religious talk. This is exactly what all the prophets showed, Moses proved and especially Y`shua.
And I quote: "You study the scriptures for in them you think, you have found [the key to] salvation." As it is, salvation come and people are not seeing it. They are being force fed someone idea of what it all means.
Let's take a poll:
1. How many milk fed or meat eating sheep spend more than 1 hour a day LISTENING to Creator or 1 hour reading the bible.
2. how many of the aforementioned spend 2 hours a day praying, without asking for anything.
3. How many, again, spend 24 complete hours in prayer/mediation on the Sabbath (sunset to sunset) in keeping the Holiest of Days?
I will tell you most spend hours reading the bible, seconds praying in panic or in the i need list and, not even a whole hour keeping the Commandment of Sabbath.
so how can the supposed children of the Creator, having the gift of grace, 24 hour access to the scripts in their hearts, in their minds, full faith ability, unlimited free will versus limited choice, etc claim to be the truth, when they can't "stay awake" a single hour...
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