God never lets people down, he may want something of you and you did not give it to him, therefore you are in the wilderness holding onto what god needs to get rid of, slowly you fall away and before you know it, you are outside the presence of god in you. And now all that is left is bitter hatred and madness. How did you get this way?
Really? Does your god provide everything you need or do you get that entirely on your own without his help?
obviously God provides.. Seek ye first the kingdom of god and all these thing shall be added onto you. Just yesterday i went to get my brakes fixed and i saw in the garbage a slightly damaged carry case for the back of my motorcycle, bigger than the one i have now. I paid for the brakes, got a nice deal and a free carry case. when i got home i went to open my carry case on my bike and the lock disintigrated. Fortunately god had already given me another one and some excellent brakes too. There are hundreds of situations like this.
Yet children all over the world starve and die, while this oblivious God gives you a great deal. This God isn't very thoughtful.
this broken record rebuttle is so tiring. Spin a different plate yo doomsayer
and quite honestly people who just jump in and contribute insulting dumb one liners are not very bright, apparently. Your comments i have frequently thought a waste of time earnest.
Boo hoo people starve all over the world lol this is such a joke. Obviously you who say this know absolutely nothing about God, the way things work or any part of the bible. I will not even begin to debate this point as i have seen this question has been answered so many times and still you don't get it probably because you don't want to get it, got it? right.
It hasn't been answered at all. It still remains a contradiction of ultimate hypocrisy.
Your god gave you new brakes.
He didn't feed children who died of starvation.
What don't you get?
Leaving to god what could be acheived with a focused, dedicated, human population is pretty lame there guy. That which we COULD do but don't is not reason for divine intercession. That is more a reason for the DUDE to go back to the drawing board and scrap this FUBAR project
That's what atheists keep telling you theists, but you just don't get that.
Then, what about the new brakes, was that diving intercession?
Make up your mind, dude.
Its always been said that god provides for his people. This is a promise of God, Because i am in the will of god and i ask or he knows of my needs, I get provision.
People who are under mans unwieldy control get what they get.
You have to step out to enter into the blessings of god. This is what the garden experience did for you and this is what people do for themselves.
Your brakes are not fixed because God isn't allowed in the picture. All god can do is bring his word to you and see if you will choose life, if you don't, your brakes remain unblessed, your life remains unchanged and the after life isn't looking that great either.
The reason God looks after my stuff and my life is because i do other things with my money that are kingdom oriented.
The egyptian story is a wonderful example. Israel left egypt devastated while in the israel camp there was a party goin on!
So, every Christian child who is starving to death is under who's unwieldy control? Are they getting what they deserve to get?
first off. lets define christian. False religions are not christian, catholicism is not christian. born again, baptized in the holy spirit are christians. Starving.. hmmm, sorry i do not know any. I think you are assuming this, but on the off chance that, since nothing is 100% in this world that one christian kid may be starving i will just say this: God puts people through situations to bring about a maturity in them. For you to be on the outside looking in and judging, first of all you do not who is christian, how far along in christian maturity they are, or what god has planned in their future. I do not think you can do this and therefore your question as you put it, is redundant in its value. There is no instance where the world is going to be divided into two camps, one christian and the other nonchristian. As i said, i know of not any christians who are starving to death. lol. I know of people in other countries that worship false gods, like the angry elephant of karma or in africa and some countries where they worship they know not what, these people may be starving, but a christian living a life striving to know jesus christ will never starve to death, that would be a contradiction. lol.
Born again baptised in the holy spirit eh?
That would be me!
Your world-view of the starving is very scary.
All these millions of kids could all be fat as mud if they follow your fairy???
That is just plain psychotic!
Yes - just check out all those tribes and nations that were persuaded bullied and tortured into following the 'fairy' really really worked for them didn't it - quick passage through hell to some imaginary 'heaven', but the b@st@rds that enslaved them got fat on it, no wonder their descendants are so keen on the old lies.
It is difficult to imagine a human being writing such a pitiless, self satisfied, pathetic piece. The sooner the religious nonsense that spawns such a narrow view of things fades into the oblivion that it came from the better.
You think the fact children who are starving to death is funny?
African countries are almost half dominated by Christians, with 16,000 children in these countries dying of starvation every day, which would make about 8000 of them being of a family of Christians. And, you think that's funny and a contradiction because you've never seen their dead bodies littering the landscape.
The vast majority of these children lose their lives before the age of five. Can you remember how much you understood about Christianity when you were five years old?
I am very deeply saddened by your post and extreme lack of compassion you exhibit for these people, especially when you sit there denying and laughing at their plight.
Very sad, indeed.
hanging out, I hate to do this and I think this is a HISTORIC moment! But I do have to agree with Beelyboy on this one! He's right. Christians are not exempt from pain and suffering, or starvation. Remember the treatment received by the first Native American tribes in the Caribbean as the Spanish conquistadors tried (forced) them to become Christians? Many of them committed suicide to free themselves from slavery, and those that did convert continued living in poverty and hunger. And in all truth, you don't have to go back five hundred years to find an example. Yes, it's all in the past but there are plenty of Christians starving to death in third world countries.
I love you, Klara, just wanted you to know that.
I know you do Beely, but you never accepted the fanmail I sent you about two weeks ago.
My deepest apologies, Klara. I had no idea you sent it, where would I find that fanmail? You know I'll accept it in a heart beat.
Go to your profile, all your hubtivity is there... you'll have to go waaaaaaay back because I sent it a million years ago. lol
How's that guitar treating you?
I found it!!! It was under 'My Account' - Approved!!!
My guitars are treating me very well.
Here's what I have in my arsenal:
1990 Fender Stratocaster - I bought this new.
1987 Gibson Les Paul Goldtop - bought from original owner.
1982 Washburn HB-35 - bought from original owner a couple of years ago who never played it and only kept it in it's case, it is in minty condition, brand new.
2007 Martin DS-1 Acoustic Cutaway with built-in Fishman pickup. - bought new, this acoustic is fabulous.
I've also just spent the last year building a Tweed version of the 40 watt Fender SuperReverb amplifier which I'll be using as my main gigging amp. It is a little noisy as it was my first build, however the sounds and tones it produces are "magical."
Wow! You really are taking this very seriously! I'm impressed! Very impressed! If you know anything of keyboards - I have a Korg TR workstation and an Alesis Micron analog modeling synth. Those I use to record my stuff at home using Cakewalk's Sonar. I am not very fond of Protools and for what I do at home I really don't need it either.
We'll have to jam sometime! Let me know how the first gig goes.
Wow! That's some pretty nice gear. I read up that the Korg has 200 preset patterns and 150 preset drum patterns, lots of material there to get really creative. And, just saw a video demo for the Micron and Sonar 8. Those things are incredible, small but incredibly powerful and easy to use. I really haven't paid that much attention to this stuff not being a keyboard player.
If you have any of your own material using that gear up on a website somewhere that I could hear, share a link.
Yes God does do so much for us. So many people call it coincidence, or luck. They don't give God the credit. They don't recognize their blessings, and think God has turned away from them
God doesn't turn away from his children, but, some times, his children turn away from God.
Apparently about a third of the world's population are not in his good books!
probably more than that but quantity was not the point, quantity became necessary because of mans newly adopted sinful nature. In the garden the inhabitants were not told to multiply, this was told to them after they were exiled from the garden. I don't know why you would laugh because from where i stand you are numbered amongst that third and for some reason you feel compelled to dig a deeper hole every day.
What is going on is heart breaking. However it has all been foretold in the Bible. It is very sad, if I, or you, could change it, we would.
I'm not sure why God allows people to starve, but I know he allows evil in the world as part of us having free will
And did you know as he allows free will, this includes babies being murdered everyday - I think it's in the billions now....many are left to die after being born alive...God is getting very angry and His wrath will come soon....
Your absolutely right! Nice to hear that. Its not the question hehe, but edification is always appreciated and i agree, it is better to know who to give the credit too when co-incidence happens, because, truly, we know how god cares for his people, the sparrows and those that evolved. lol.
People don't give God credit, they think it is luck or coincidence.. Then when a prayer isn't answered the way they want they begin to think there isn't a God.
Last winter the snow sent my car thru a stop sign. If my car hadn't taken the exact path it did, my car would have been totaled and I would have been injured if not killed. The only damage to my car, it needed a paint job. Luck or Gods helping hand? God.
What makes you so special that the creator of the universe would intercede in your life, yet allow millions of disastrous outcomes for others, including starving and dying children?
This kind of thinking is egotistical nonsense.
In your opinion. My opinion is that God interceded, and protected me. My opinion is the one that matters to me.
I thank God for my blessing. You don't recognize them.
(This kind of thinking is egotistical nonsense.)
Your opinion again. In my opinion, yours is nonsense.
OK, chance is a better word than luck. You simply beat the odds.
Your opinion is based on nonsense from a nonsensical book of superstitious myths. lol
My opinion is based upon the laws of odds and probabilities.
Your opinion is absolutely disrespectful to the lives of those children who suffer and die excrutiating deaths daily.
How can one be so blinded by his or her own selfishness as to not see the abject ignorance in holding such an opinion?
How can one be so blinded by his or her own selfishness as to not see the abject ignorance in holding such an opinion?
Don't tese us like that>
Why don't YOU tell us how YOU do that?
Unless you have a real explanation as to why you asked such a question, I'm going to take it as a childish and unprovoked insult.
You must understand, just because you do not have a strong argument for your absurd position, doesn't mean you need to stoop to the tactics of adolescence.
I was only playing monkey see monkey do.
You are correct.. I shouldn't have stooped to that level
LOL That's right, we got to behave ourselves. Ain't fair is it?
Love ya bro!
@getitrite I just gave you a drink out of your own cup.
That was improper behavior and I hope you accept my apology.
No one should ever talk to another like that.
Ok, chance. It wasn't me who took the car in the direction it went. I do wish I could draw it on here. When I saw that my car wasn't stopping at the stop sign at the bottom of that hill, I didn't know anything, my mind went blank.
My car turned and missed a tree, went down the drop off into a field at an angle that kept all 4 wheels on the ground. When the wrecker pulled my car out of there, only 2 wheels on the ground. If my car had turned over, flipped, a convertible, that would have hurt.
(Your opinion is absolutely disrespectful to the lives of those children who suffer and die excrutiating deaths daily.)
The book that you hold such disrespect for, tells about all this that is going on. It is heartbreaking. It is also man's doing.
(How can one be so blinded by his or her own selfishness as to not see the abject ignorance in holding such an opinion?)
Funny, the only people who think I am selfish are the non believers on here. How, do tell, is my belief selfish to you? How am I hurting any one?
I'll follow God's word to the best of my ability and I will praise him for all my blessings. Your free to follow your own word.
Come to the dark side, Luke. I can hear the breathing!AAAHHGGG! Most people, including many who should listen better, don't. Misery upon the earth not manifested by nature is the work of evil, greedy people. When nature takes arest, The Pol Pots' and hitlers (big and small) create sadness and bloodshed. We habitually spend way more on weapons than anything. Think they turn them into knick knacks? The natural disasters are generally dwarfed by man made ones. Some exceptions exist (blackPlague) If we were more interested in social things, community things but no, rather kill 'em all and let god sort 'em out!
Law of physics would have put my car head on into a tree, or, rolled over.
This is Virginia, there is no level ground. It is all mountains and hills.
Where I left the road and went into the field, wasn't in front of me. In front of me, was 2 trees.
Aren't you the same guy who thought he had a miracle because his wife misheard the local doc and so had cancer - and when the tests were done thought it had miraculously dissapeared, quite a long made up sotry with crying and wailing as I remember ? Or maybe that was another one.
Christians don't give Luck enough credit.
They keep thinking there has to be a reason for every good or bad thing that happens when all any of us is doing with each breath is rolling the dice and hoping for the best.
My parents believe bad stuff in my life happened because I turned my back on God, but bad stuff happened when I tried to be close to God (and people and church said it was my fault).
People said God was looking out for people when no-one died in a recent earthquake (good building codes); yet thousands died in earthquake in poor country. Does this mean God shows favouritism to the rich?
Evidently, there are tens of thousands of situations like this every day, where god provides you with a carry case and some brakes, but makes sure children starve to death. You must feel very grateful for your abundance and their loss of life.
Obviously, your god was too busy with your new brakes to notice the dead.
I didn't fail at religion as you obviously assume all who don't share your beliefs have done. Interesting stance there, either believe what I believe or you are a failure as a human. Just a little judgemental in your religiosity aren't you?
I left the idiocy of religion behind and by doing so, I have left all the bitterness, hatred and madness with the religious people who need it to survive.
I have no problem with religion as a concept. I have a problem with the holier than thou people who preach that partaking in of your personal beliefs and fantasies should be required by law of all people. I assume that you idea of religious freedom is that all are free to think just like you do.
LOL Seems you are quite bitter and mad though and you have had experience with religion so hmmm maybe i was talking to you. I don't like your attitude. I don't see that you have left all the bitterness and hatred behind like you say, in fact from the very start you show bitterness and hatre and besides not understanding christian judgment rules you attacked and i didn't hear a bell lol.
So mr "im not bitter but you're an idiot christian" lets see what paragraph 3 has to offer. Well it wasn't much better. So you ran into some hollier than thou people did ya. Interesting, holiness is the goal. They crammed it down your throat how? did they tell you to give up crack? stop smoking? drinking? most of your post is ranting and there is so little to work with.
The best i can grasp is some holy people told you to be holy and that broke the camels back and now because you couldn't do holy you think that thinking like the holy people is wrong.
Perhaps i was talking to you. Thanks for pointing that out.
The first while with god while he cleans out the crap inside of us is a wowser time of internal activity but there is a light at the end of the tunnel and after this initiation phase is completed the ride is really nice, being a different and much better person. Good luck and try to keep the cannons unloaded.
Here comes the rocks again! Ow, that hurts! Stop it! stop it! ARRGHH
People do not fail at religon, they get affronted by it (mad at it) and loose interest. usualy through something or some issue or incident. people are generaly good folks, but sometimes religionists can be a bit much and it turns them against it in anger.
They are not failures, they are still worthwhile people.
failing at something and being a failure are two different things. If i fail at something i can be quite sucessful at other things therefore i am not a failure. I said failed at christianity, not life. If i get affronted at a math test and lose interest in it and don't complete the course chances are, i fail at math.
So blaming other religionists or people inspite of gods goodness or changing churches or praying about it or even telling them; is more rational than continuing with the one in whom is all things and whom all things were created by.
Of course they are still worthwhile people although blaming people is not a strong case against being christian. We must always keep our eyes on god. I don't think god will care who we point the finger at or why.
Yes, this describes me. I got turned off bigtime when I got told that I was possessed by the devil when I had clinical depression. A lot of religious folk don't use their brains
(How did you get this way?)
Well, my first mistake was listening to you....
I am seriously 'outside' your delusional place that you like to inhabit with an imaginary god. It is very clear that me, and others like me, are happy, no bitterness and no weird ideas of living up to an imaginary being. If you want bitterness, hatred and plain stupidity - look inside religion.
If you say you have no bitterness then you need to reread your other posts.
If you think calling christianity, stupidity and that an imaginary god is involved you are so angry or bitter or both. I'm betting you once were a christian and got caught up in the legalistic side of it and not the grace aspect. You then found it 2 dimensional, and full of rules and ceremonies.
That happens, faith needs to be on christ and only on christ, we are supposed to pray our problems away by asking him for help and a solution. When christians don't do that and try to fix things by themselves, that's when things go wrong. But if you are happy in your beliefs now, good for you, i hope they are the right beliefs because there are no separate beliefs for this person or that person, whatever occurs jesus is the way, truth and light, if only we lean on him, but perhaps this post wasn't meant for you. Thanks for dropping by.
No - I think this post was meant for me. It is a duty to work to prevent you and your kind getting too many stupid people to believe your delusional ideas, the last time this group was mobilised in the US it backed Bush to attack Iraq. You imagining that your 'faith' is important is not an issue, you can believe what you like - trying to spread your delusional ideas to peole who either do not think so deeply or are unaware of the dangers these beliefs pose to the world - is not ok with me. So it is my duty to oppose anyone spreading this irrational desease.
Excellent response. I am in your camp. When the fundie thumpers simply collected at their respective churches and cried halleleujah I left them alone in their madness - once they tried to organize into a political force it became my duty to stop them, for truly, any absolutist is a foe of freedom, and these Christian fundie thumpers are as dangerous to our way of life as any Mullah in the middle east..
hmm... well, speaking only for myself, i don't think i 'failed at religion'...at the time, i left because it was very oppressive and i was at a point in my life where i was seeking knowledge and answers and i got a lot of Bible facts but no answers to questions i had. some people are spectators as far as their religion goes, not fully participating. as young as i was, i was always a devout practitioner of my faith and took it very seriously.
but there was one incident that stands out in my mind...one time this priest came over to the house to talk to my dad about my brother. something happened with him and my parents wouldn't tell us kids what was going on. anyway, i remember sweeping the floor...i was only like eight or nine...and so i was sweeping the floor in the living room where this priest was sitting with my dad and mom and i accidentally brushed this man's shoes with the broom...and my dad, who never yelled at me, yelled at me and this priest looked at his shoes as if i had besmirched Christ's feet or something and then he looked at me like i was a worm. even then i knew that was uncool. so, these rememberances, along with so many heartfelt and thoughtful questions going unanswered make you turn away from RELIGION and makes you question the Christian God ideal and examine other religions' gods. but it doesn't make you turn your back on God and it doesn't make you hate Jesus or anything. i can't really describe it in a forum post, but you CAN still love Jesus and believe in God while walking away from your Christian religion. and i am not 'bitter' or 'angry'. some people are, but i am not. i do feel annoyed when religious people adopt a smug attitude though and act like they have the inside track to God or something. but lately when i drive past some of these beautiful old churches, complete with bell towers, i want to walk inside. i did. one time...to St. Mary's ...and i felt such a calming to my spirt and a warmth in my heart i wanted to cry but i didn't...i just sat there in the back pew and meditated and watched people come in and kneel and then watched the sunlight streaming in through the windows, casting rainbows.
sorry to hear. People can play an important role. They can be an uplifter or a stumblingblock, or just a pain in the hubpages. Maybe you will find some enlightenment on hubpages there is lots of information and i hope some of them answer your questions.
How do you fail at religion? Religion is not a contest or a puzzle or a test that can be passed or failed. Faith is not a series of challenges you pass or fail to determine your fate.
If, for whatever reason, you don't believe in God, why would you blame God, when you don't believe in Him?
Because they neither understand God, nor Religion. For them they are just two English words from the Dictionary.
Actually in many cases it is because we understand very well.
Actually, the problem is those who are religious, actually don't understand "god", as it was intended by Jesus' teachings.
But, you keep thinking that people only see them as two words from a dictionary.
"God" and "Jesus" are not necessarily synonymous.
Neither the Christadelphians, the Jehovah's Witnesses, nor the the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are trinitarians.
Of course, outside of Christianity , what Jesus believed about God was irrelevant.
So you've never been let down by god? I followed god for years and he let me down all the time. I feel cheated that so much of my life was wasted on filling my mind with poison. I'm an ex-christian
God allows us to feel abandoned at times--this is how He tests our faith
How could I possible blame something I don't believe exists? You are not talking about atheists, rather, frustrated agnostics and possibly deists.
Secondly, I am neither bitter nor mad, rendering your judgement both ill-conceived and blind. My resentment for religion is not directed at God, nor at all religious people. It is directed at the entirely human foundation that supports it.
I am supportive of personal beliefs, as long as they remain personal. But when I am forced to contend with ethical absolutism and slavery -- I draw the line.
an ill conceived and blind judgment would be to assume i am not talking about atheists. I am indeed talking to atheists. A lot of atheist have a history in religion. Some atheists today are on hubpages and have an extensive history in religion. You are ill informed and boy are they angry at god lol.
ethical absolutism is supported in the bible.
Isaiah 44:8 "Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? there is no God beside me; I know not any". ethical relativity is a manmade doctrine of compromise and is in opposition to god.
I did not make this up. If you want to support personal beliefs, go ahead, but i hope they are the right ones.
If someone rails at God, it is an admission of existence, therefore they are NOT atheists. Just because you, or they, choose to call themselves atheists does not make it so.
The notion that atheists have a thing against God is absurd and makes absolutely no sense. I suggest you look up what the word means.
I have a question I hope you have the courage to answer. Since you stand opposed to relativistic ethic principles, if God commanded you to kill your son, would you? (like Abraham)
I just wanted a question answered not more hijacking attempts but since the abraham story is such an excellent story i will be happy to talk about it, but for brevity sake i will have to skip so many awesome details, so here's the jist of the occurrence. Genesis 22:1
Abraham was told by God himself, 'In isaac shall all the nations of the world be blessed, in him shall be a population more than the sands of the sea'. Then God says, Go sacrifice thy son. (i'll stretch this a bit) for 3 days abraham and isaac walked toward mount horeb, chatting and bonding and having i guess father and son fun. This son, isaac was very special to abraham as he had this son in his old age and was not likely to have another. In essence, isaac was it, the only chance of receiving gods blessing; 'in Isaac shall thy seed be called'. Meaning the family tree will continue. Isaac was loved and a good son. As that mountain got closer, abrahams trial intensified, as the two of them walked up the mountain to get to the place of sacrifice abrahams heart musta been torn in two. Why would a loving god do this? is everybodies question. This is a foreshadow of God sacrificing jesus and wait! there's more. if this messianic prophecy fulfilled thousands of years later is not enough to keep you on the edge of your seat, then how about, as abraham raised the knife to kill his son, an angel stopped him! and to shorten this post. Genesis 24:1 "And Abraham was old, and well stricken in age: and the LORD had blessed Abraham in ALL things". Abraham had a lot of stuff at the end of his life, respect of all the tribes, wealth, friends, he was veritably a king.
The question is not why did god do that but what was the outcome of that.
James 2:23 "Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God".
Galatians 3:7 "Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham". Faith is the key, isaac was a son of faith in that while abraham and sarah were to old for children, isaac was born. The short of the story is that God never lets us down, no matter what he asks us to do, with god there is always a way out. As big a deal as it is to those on the outside of christianity, we on the inside look at the situation and already know the answer. God would not have allowed isaac to be sacrificed, the outcome was already known by abraham. Genesis 22:8 "And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering." The first commandment is thou shalt not murder (correct translation) God did not sacrifice people, god abhorred that pagan practice. Abraham knew that god had a plan, so therefore sacrificing his son wasn't even the point for abraham, abraham was wondering "what is god doing here?" God as usual waited till the last second to reveal Gods plan. Yah, i wish he did things differently too, lol.
and that brings us back to my original question.
Oh, would i sacrifice my son?.. the correct question is, "if god asked me to sacrifice my son would i go about the motions of doing it". Yep, because i already know the answer to what god is doing here, but, i would have to be absolutely sure it is god asking and not just my flesh. I would need a burning bush that consumes itself not.
thanks for asking.
(The first commandment is thou shalt not murder)
Ezekiel 9:5-6 (King James Version)
"And to the others he said in mine hearing, Go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity:
Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which were before the house."
As usual, the Christian has to make up his own interpretation of events in order to justify his beliefs. To argue that God would NEVER ALLOW human child sacrifice is contrary to what the bible itself says - God allowed a young girl to be offered as a burnt sacrifice to him.
The amount of carnage and bloodshed caused by god or for god is legion in the bible - so much so it sounds a lot like a crock of Jewish horse manure in fable form.
I didn't look it up but am quite sure that you just described a "dream" or vision that Ezekiel had; then wrote down as best as he could. Unless this vision was interpreted by God we do not know the full and accurate meaning of it.
(I didn't look it up)
No doubt you did not look it up - but I notice your lack of research into factualness did not prevent you from touting YOUR beliefs that this could only be explained as a dream or vision.
Are so SURE you want to trust god with your progeny?
Judges 11:30-31, 34-35, 39-40 (King James Version) *entire story shortened for convenience
"And Jephthah vowed a vow unto the LORD, and said, If thou shalt without fail deliver the children of Ammon into mine hands,
Then it shall be, that whatsoever cometh forth of the doors of my house to meet me, when I return in peace from the children of Ammon, shall surely be the LORD's, and I will offer it up for a burnt offering."
We call this the story setup.
"And Jephthah came to Mizpeh unto his house, and, behold, his daughter came out to meet him with timbrels and with dances: and she was his only child; beside her he had neither son nor daughter.
And it came to pass, when he saw her, that he rent his clothes, and said, Alas, my daughter! thou hast brought me very low, and thou art one of them that trouble me: for I have opened my mouth unto the LORD, and I cannot go back."
Then the shocker. Oh, no, not my daughter!
"And it came to pass at the end of two months, that she returned unto her father, who did with her according to his vow which he had vowed: and she knew no man. And it was a custom in Israel"
The terrible climax. Oh, no, the HOOK opened the car door!
Either this story is true (yeah, right) and god does allow human sacrifice, or it is an urban legend (which is exactly what it sounds like when you read it).
Either way, are you SURE about trusting god with the life of your son/daughter? REALLY?
Whenever you pick a story from judges you have to know what the book is about. "and every man did that which was right in his own eyes". Israel had told god to back off and that they wanted to govern themselves, hence the judges, not kings... judges. Kings is god back in control through kings. Judges is where people are responsible for their actions and god obeys what they want, this is a prelude, shadow or foretelling of what is going on today, man is ruling himself and yes there a lot of atrocities. Jeph made a vow, now in israel, indeed all over the middle east, moreso than here, the spoken word is much more important than we consider it to be. When a person vows a vow, it is a serious matter. If you think god delighted in this story, think again.
Just as a word of precaution about your seeming hubriety.. the bible is unfallable and perfect from front to back the next time you think you have something contrary to that just use ordinary wording and forget the smug stuff because you will always be wrong if you go against gods word. What were you thinking?
This is truly disturbing. What a dangerous and twisted delusion. If I thought this way, I would hope someone would see fit to get me some help.
i hope you understand now. The people with their nose in the book have answers you can only dream to have, but you don't and just to show that carnal minds can't interpret the bible. You have been wrong before and again and will be in the future. I appreciate though that you accept gracefully those times.
gods truth is inescapable.
(ethical absolutism is supported in the bible. Isaiah 44:8)
And a talking mule is supported in the bible, too: Numbers 22:29.
"The donkey said to Balaam, 'Am I not your own donkey, which you have always ridden, to this day?"
Your point is???
the correct translation of balaam talking donkey is the jaw of the donkey was 'loosed' or hung slack, which tends to infer that a ventriloquist act was more the scenario and not an actual talking donkey. Animals do not talk, not even serpents in the bible, because that would mean a total rearranging of the lung capacity, musculature to push a certain volume of air, the vocal cords would be different, the animal might have to have a higher intelligence to understand and answer. God talked through the donkey and not the donkey talking. Which is brilliant if you consider god has a sense of humor.
back to the question that you don't want to answer plz
I see. So the "correct" translation of the balaam talking donkey story is that the donkey did not talk, although talking is exactly what the bible said this donkey did.
"The DONKEY SAID TO BALAAM...."
It is sad that you have to jump through such enormous hoops of intellectual disregard as to invent a Sheri-Lewis aspect of God the Ventrilliquist in order to maintain your faith in the inerrancy of scripture.
I see why you failed at religion - too much imagination, too little fact.
I suppose that there is also a rational explanation for The Scorpion King script being in the bible - Ezekiel raising an army by bringing dead bones back to life?
Ezekiel, Chapter 37, verses 4-10:
Wow - Yet another coward hiding behind an internet persona. You must be a Christian then? Great ad for your religion.
Why does it make you so angry and hate filled that some people can make rational decisions about this invisible deity?
coward hmmmm i could say the same about you.
I've read your posts and i consider you someone not worth responding to.
If i ever read something from you that does not come out punching and attacking or is not filled with hate or that is not pompous from an over inflated ego i may respond, but don't hold your breath.
if you actually want to answer the question, go ahead, the only person stopping you is yourself.
speaking of ads... yours is disgusting and you claim to have evolved. im sorry i don't see it. If my 20 yr old threw a tantrum i would take him to the doctors. You always tantrum
So - why are you so angry with atheists who can think for themselves?
Is it because you lack a decent education? Pretty sure any 20 year old that had been allowed a normal development would tell you where to stick it. Or did u keep it inside and teach it wot god sed, instead of allowing it to learn about reality ?
Mark has a good point - even if you have proviked him into putting it in a witty and rude manner.
Very few people believe your drivel except those who have been subject to the constant propoganda as a child - or who are convinced by the frontline pack of lies and disseminations that go with spreading the rubbish- or of course say they are convinced becasue it gives them some advantage.
god did when he appeared to moses, unannounced in a burning bush that consumed itself not.. and the rest is jewish history. There were lots of burning bushes that would spontaneously combust but the weird thing about this bush was it did not burn itself up and then a voice seemed to come out of it. And moses' life was amazing after that and so was all of a tiny bunch of slave pyramid builders who were freed of egypt and the pattern goes on to this very day.
Moses made god did he? Who made Moses then?
(There were lots of burning bushes that would spontaneously combust )
Odd, I don't remember seeing anything about that in the Cairo Daily Telegraph. Who kept track of all these spontaneous bush eruptions. The only spontaneous Bush eruption I know of was the invasion of Iraq.
What exactly WERE those spontaneous eruptions? Did god need to practice burning bushes or did he simply forget which one he had treated with flame retardant?
Who is this Moses of whom you speak ? Other than stories in the Bible he is nowhere to be found.
Nothing in the local Egyptian Newspapers about this "Let my People Go," speech of his then he up and leaves and supposedly take all the slaves with him. Slaves on whom the Egyptian economy depended and still nothing in the press, not even a hieroglyph to call his own.
Let me see, where does he supposedly take these freed slaves ? Off into the Sinai dessert for forty odd years of wandering. Who owns the Sinai at the time? The Egyptians...OOOPS! In forty years they never once bump into an Egyptian army patrol or was spotted by a trade caravan.
Then onwards into the promised land out of the Sinai and turn left into to someone else’s country and who actually ruled this country at the time ? Let me see...Ah Yes .... The Egyptians !
To this day no archaeological evidence has been found to substantiate these Biblical claims and it has to be said the Egyptians were, if nothing else, great administrators.
So ask yourself this, No Moses, no Exodus, therefore no burning bush, no ten commandments coming from on high so no ark of the covenant no promised land..... shall I go on ?
no you needn't bother going on because like your other boastful posts you are so very uncorrect. The egyptians when israel left was devastated. Their army drowned in the sea. Much wealth they gave to israel so their economy was in shambles. Their gods, 10 of them, were humiliated and shown to be false. There is no record of egypt because there literally was no egypt. They were quiet as a mouse so to speak. They did not own the wilderness which is the sinai pinnisula, it was a wilderness and open to all who crossed it going to egypt by the upper route of which isreael spent most of its time at the lower section. All of the rest of the world knew what was going on with israel because they knew what happened to egypt. Intell was good during times when enemies would want to take your country by force. After the devastation of egypts gods nobody wanted to deal with them. There has been tons of archaeological evidence do a google search before you speak.
If you read the passage about the burning bush.
Exodus 3:2 And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.
Exodus 3:3 And Moses said, I will now turn aside, and see this great sight, why the bush is not burnt.
Much controversy over a bush that did not burn itself up. Odd indeed but a burning bush that did burn itself up was a good sight as it meant free fire.
Your pompous attitude i find displeasurable.. plz tone it down and you may find you don't have so much egg on your face.
and you are totally wrong about who owned the land god promised read the book of joshua to find what you are trying to talk about and failing miserably at.
I think that if they failed it is because they set their bar to high. Ya gotta walk before you can run.
well said! It is so true that initially when god is trying to get all the worldly and ungodly stuff outta a person and the sin nature is changing itself to a sin aware and sinless nature, these times can be torturous, scary and perhaps as so many have said, seem like brainwashing and probably because new programming has to be installed. Its like a computer, out with the old windows version and in with the new.
But after the change occurs, the ride is sweet!
How does one set the bar too high in regards to believing in your god? This doesn't make sense. Perhaps this is what you refer to...I am seeking the truth about the universe and won't accept the unproven, unverifable, source of knowledge you settled for as my own. It seems you didn't set the bar high enough in your pursuit of knowledge and took the easy way out of thinking as most religious people have done by buying into the thoughts of primitive sheep herders. Why do you suppose God, aliens, and bigfoot only make themselves known to the ignorant unschooled yahoos around the world. Those who claim bigfoot exists are consumed with the same blind faith as religious people are. On the other hand, I personally believe that aliens are going to be found as our knowledge of the universe increases and our abilities to explore it increase. The only way to spread religion is to reduce the intelligence of the manking back to the level humans had when they first invented the gods. Our country is doing a great job of this and before long I figure we will again be making sacrifices to your god to show we care.
What does he want from me? Nothing. What did I want from him? Probably everything, which has now changed to nothing. What did I get from him? Nothing. Yeah, he, or something, has given me luck, a lot of times, other things too, but only because of the fact that I am good to people; my friends, my brothers and my sisters. I may have said a few bad words, to some people, but I never did cause them harm and they were just because probably I had to teach them a lesson, not because I wanted to win, probably just because they were plain wrong there and needed to change themselves. And my parents are my God. So, the fact of the matter is that, I had lost faith in God, a long time back, but I recently found new faith in myself, my family, and my best buddies. And I still don't worship, nor do I pray, but I have learnt to respect myself and the people around me. Probably I did it the hard way, but I did it, and everybody finds a way sooner or later. They may be blaming God now, but they will soon hate themselves for things they had done and probably are doing. And that's when they would start searching for a new God, and they will eventually find it. Yeah they probably have to pay for their sins, but a new person would surely emerge, in this lifetime or the next, depending on how sinful they were.
that is complicated. You say god wanted nothing from you and yet you found this too hard a thing? I used to say that about school.. "what did you learn today son", my dad would ask. "Nothing" i would say. Then came report card time and dad said, disappointed, "How could you fail at nothing?" Oh the messes we get ourselves into when we are trying to do what seems to be right to us. Salvation by doing good, appeasing god by being nice seems to be right and he should be pleased with our efforts, but god doesn't want our efforts, god wants to do the work through us. Like so many before us. His pattern for doing stuff hasn't changed. And we think 'oh well next life i will get it right', but that is only a guess and this can't be the reality that i have heard atheists talk about so much.
Actually god wanted everything from you but mostly he wanted you to listen.
Yeah, he wanted nothing, and he never will. Well he might, if I have to fight alongside him as a hero in the battle of Gods against Titans. But jokes apart, what can I possibly ever give him? You are so right when you say that he wants to do the work through us. That is probably the best way. It's simple; he gets his work done, we learn to do things, and then we get our work done, and can only blame ourselves; but he watches. And I think if something has to happen in 2012, it will happen because of religion, either it would be that, or the project bluebeam, or, well, I might be boring the shit out of you here but that's what the internet and all of the mixed up right and wrong information about which I have been reading the past decade or so has taught me. And only if the sun rises, with birds chirping in the sky joyfully on the 22nd of December 2012, will I stop thinking about it.
edit: Yes, you're right, he wanted me to listen. I realized it sometime back, and now I am a different person. Well, at least, most of the time. Even if I am meaner to the outside world, I have learnt to love my close ones. And I feel more confident now.
I am sure you are where god wants you to be. That may seem strange but nothing is to difficult that god can't make right. And you were right, there is nothing that we can do of our own intents, purposes or strengths, the major difference between christianity and the other religions is C. is not a salvation based on what we can do for him, in other words, our works. All we can do is be grateful and listen to what he wants us to do.
I am reminded of when i first came to God, i had a lot of spare time and i thought oh boy now i can pray all the time, study all the time oh man this is gonna be great, 8 months later i was wondering why prayer was so hard and i had a difficult time studying, watched tv a bit much.. and then i realized that i was trying to do the work! i put myself into such a narrow confinement that god had to pull me out. On my knees praying wasn't what god wanted but constant communication that i can have even when im walking around, cutting the lawn, no formula prayer routine was gonna get me blessed.
Enjoy whatever comes your way, remember the nice things.
(but god doesn't want our efforts, god wants to do the work through us.)
Amazingly, although I don't believe in your religion, I find that I know more about your religion than you do. How can that be? Oh, yeah, I remember....you said..."'what did you learn today son', my dad would ask. 'Nothing' i would say. "
It appears your inquisitive nature has not changed with age.
What you speak of above is the Greek notion of Logos, which was adopted by the writer of the Gospel of John in order to make Christianity more appealing to the Greeks and Romans. If you really knew your bible history, you would know that John is the only book that assumes this "belief" nature of salvation. As is typical with Christianity, various ideas from different books are combined to create what is in essence a composite belief that no single book of the bible teaches - it is as if the Christian hiearchy has written their very own versions of scriptures, mixing and matching to make it sound to their liking.
Reality is that the books of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John were all written in different parts of the world decades apart and each was meant to stand on its own merits - when the book of John teaches Logos it is only the book of John, not the entire bible that is teaching that idea.
Lets see, i will disregard your condescending remarks and remind you that the gospel are written by different people because "out of two or three witness may a thing be established". Deuteronomy 19:15 One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth: at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established. Also that each gospel is written to a different audience jews, new converts and gentiles. by different people, gentile, jew, jew.
since you don't believe in the bible or answering the question, it has been nice chatting with you but our discussion ends here.
I don't generally comment on the religion forums, but this one is a doozy. "Failed at religion" ...are you serious, or are you some caricature of a religious fanatic? Never mind. I know the answer.
God must sure be smiling down on you now. If you can't win them over, then assume they have a problem. Yup. Last time I checked, God gave everyone free will. Maybe it's YOU that failed at "converting" them. Yup. That's it. Maybe you'll burn in hell for all eternity because of your failure.
I clearly see your problem, you didn't like the phrasing of my question. A question is a question, valid in any form. Get over it, like it or lump it but keep your assumptions, accusations, finger pointing and your problems to yourself.
many people fail at christianity, Do you suppose it is the only thing in the world that it is impossible to fail at? Then you have failed to grasp the point of the question.
After you calm down, you may answer the question.
I think religion is the true failure rather than someone failing religion. Religion isn't the kind of subject you have to be smart at to pass, you just have to have the most faith to pass. The most faith does not equal the most intelligence or the best test score.
a failure is still a failure whether it be at collecting the most jelly beans or scoring a+ on a math test. I never asked anybody to dissect my question but just to answer it. It seems some people fail at understanding the question so i can continue to purport that some people failed, gave up the ship, didn't cross the finish line, got mad at god and left, however you want to define failed, feel free, but in my question i mentioned god never fails us, therefore is the weight of the matter on the ex-christian.
People blame God because He failed to provide the tools necessary to be successful at His choice of endeavor. Not enough imagination, maybe.
That would be a very nice reason, if i believed god didn't provide the tools. God always provides the tools. There are indeed some churches that provide little food of substance and i believe we know which denominations those are. Gods word is clear when he says to stay focused on him. I believe this to be the biggest tool for the job and the bestest. lol. Poor teaching would be a good reason and i agree.
"Jesus, Mary & Joseph", would you people get a grip!
Both of you are redundant retards of the SAME ideology!
One shakes their feeble fist at the "anti-god" while the other cuddles close. You BOTH are worshiping the same thing - deception!
G/god is ba`al. Period. You can argue until your dead and still it will not change. You created the G/gods AND anti G/god concepts. The Creator has NOTHING, zero, zip, zilch, nada, net -to do with your beliefs. NOTHING!!!
The book you worship or they refute is the SAME!!!
How long will you argue over something neither of you understands? Seriously, it is silly.
Because in your self indulgent, fashionable, mystic and scientific "logic", you both think you have the answer. Sadly you are both as far from having that answer as possible.
How long will you worship each other and the deities you love & hate, huh? Even the Hebrews did this, making the law incarnate and the gentiles making pagan houses of technology to worship themselves and the deities within the books of Hebrews and non.
Foolishness, all of it. And even up to the moment you take your last breath and your brain of sugar and electricity stops, you will swear, beyond anything conceivable, that you are correct. Then you'll be gone -thank goodness- and the universe will continue without you, your ideas, your technology, gadgets, microscopes, fancy temples of stone or steel and glass, your books, your legacy, your pay-per-view-dinosaur & scarab museum tombs. Your connection to Free Will lost forever...
What? you're going to retort something like: "I suppose you have the answer? My response is YES. Stop reading the book or bashing each other and just listen for one full day, not 23:59 or less, but one entire day to Creator. Don't ask why or how or what or who or if or if not. Just shut the bloody hell up and listen. Not thinking to yourself or whispering thank you, or snarling like some kind of forgotten homeless wolf in need of mommies sagging breasts or to comfort you with chocolates, a happy ending story or worse, your spiritual narcissism. Just be quiet and listen for an entire 24 complete hours. After that, come back here to these forums and tell us your correct -either side...
The truth comes out from debating the beliefs in public, not everyone keeping the beliefs to themselves. With more debate, there is wider choice. I agree more reading and listening should be done before assuming. Thanks.
Exactly TD, more choices; more bastard children of the human condition --Choice. Silliness indeed. If any one needs, and needs to choose, they are slaves to the ISM.
I am correct.
There is no Creator with a Capital C. I have spent some considerable time connected to it in the past and it is not a separate entity called "Creator."
The book that you interpreted this nonsense about 800 year old men and floods is no more or less enlightening than any other book. Why? Because you still think you have all the answers and shout it other people who do not subscribe to your ISM. And you cannot get anything from a book. You did not connect to "Creator" and learn about 800 year old men and floods. That is all man made nonsense.
Y'achoo was not an actual person send by "Creator." Simply by personalizing existence, you are creating a religion.
Go - sit on a rock, play drums for a few days, practice African dance, go to Mass - whatever floats your boat and creates a connection - you do not connect to a separate entity - you connect to existence, and it moves so very, very slowly that you need to completely rewire yourself and adjust your own pace to make any sense of it at all. This takes much, much longer than a single day - and this nonsense you spread is not what you get at all.
I have chosen my way of subverting The Nonsense because - if I try and explain this to anyone - they say - "Oh - you mean god - He sent His only son to save you, and I am saved and you are not - you should worship Him and follow these roolz wot he sed," - Or whatever version of The Nonsense they subscribe to. And they do not even know what they mean when they say it.
At least you seem to understand to look in, not out - I will give you that.
Lieing still, Marcus?
Not to me or anyone in particluar, less your self...
You are in and ARE the Ism. Why? Because you made your choice. Still a bastard child. No way around it. I am wondering how well you understand that.
There delusion is yours so long as an entity exists. I say Creator not as an entity but a totality.
Then you are a fool because you are feeding their (and my according to you) delusion by using words and making up a new and different meaning for them that only you know about. This is why no one understand what you say - not because you say anything so profound that they cannot understand, but because you are using words incorrectly. Your subjective nominalism is somewhat elusively royal in a non-directed fulsomeness.
I understand why you need to do this - like all religionists it is extremely important that you have some authority.
Me - I just say it is all nonsense - as your is - because it exists only for you.
You have far too high an opinion of yourself and your limited "understanding," to ever be able to get anyone to respect your opinion. 'Cept Woowoo maybe. `
Eventually you might get it, but I doubt it without a major attitude shift because you do not see that you are the ISM, not me, and your ego is the problem.
What necessity do you have, so great, even after making your 'choice' continue to literally and verbally, cram it down your "ex-lovers" throat. What-- because you turned the proverbial butt cheek away from the sh!te bowl you were sitting on, you now are liberated, righteous and justified by your choice? Please. One side of the sh!ter is the same as the other. It just depends on who is holding the "flush button" at the moment.
To me it is beyond disgusting how people head first the Ism can boldly and proudly display the sh!te stains on their faces, pointing smelly fingers at the people who will eventually have to clean up your mess.
Yes, I am strong enough and open minded enough to see it and know at some point me --and many others alike -- will be cleaning up your mess. Thank you. Thank you for the 6000 years of lost Free Will. Thank you for the false scientific facts and system upon theory upon system, that is killing everything. Thank you for putting the blame of the other guy, ignoring it completely or justifying 'why'. Thank you. Thank you: the pre, be and post dysfunctions of Choice, who have so beautifully and masterfully, enslaved themselves, their fellow man, their offspring and everything else into a bastardized reality called Choice. Thank you for choosing. Thank you for wanting and needing to know right/wrong, up/down, good/bad, why/why not. Thank you for worshiping books --for or against-- with gusto, bellies full and regurgitating your fear in the form of buildings stocked well with the bodies of the living and the dead, gardens to envy Babylon and more. Thank you.
Thank you for confirming you have no clue of true life --limited or eternal-- or even the choices you make. Thank you for indulging your consciousness and infecting everyone/thing with your poison. Thank you for proving the 800 year old man, the 1,000 year old olive tree in a small grove in California and the 250 year old baby sea turtle swimming off the coast of Bora Bora understand more than you.
just leave mark alone he is in his own world and ignored by me. God didnt want him because mark knows more than god and god can't use that.
i haven't got a clue who you are talking to. I did not see an answer to the question though.
How do you fail at religion??
Little johnny came home today with an F from the pastor...
Hiba was sent home from the mosque and told not to come back till she could get her prayers right..
Hey, I went to Catholic school and it's possible to fail religion. I brought home plenty of Fs.
I got an 'F' Because I asked the visiting vicar where Mrs Cain came from ?
Told me I was too young to unerstand.... Guess I still am 'cos I still don'y know !
people who were in it once but aren't any more.. not exactly a passing grade.
I don't understand the questioin. How do you fail at religion? Are we talking about classes?
Because they are unable to take blame for anything themselves
nice shot! this could well be true. Many people don't like to take blame so they finger point in other directions always away from themselves. It would be difficult indeed for god to work through that kind of attitude. This would be a proud and boastful attitude. God is not very fond of human pride. Human pride would keep that person in a works based approach and not leaning on god and then being frustrated when god hinders the work and then blaming god because 'I did all the right things'. I was there myself for a short time, god destroyed my works completely and when i inquired of him why, he showed me that i need not do all that stuff, but relax and just listen. Then i was made to understand this verse:
Ephesians 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
I did this and i did that, i deserve to be here... wrong attitude.
I don't think you can fail religion. You can fail at being yourself when you have a personal god to speak on your behalf for every thing you say and do. That means never having to take responsibility for your actions, cause God said. Atheists don't blame God, they don't have to. Strange question really, it should be directed at the 'believers' cause they're the ones who have the belief problem.
the actual question is how did you get this way? it is perceived as christians who were in it once, but aren't anymore. People want to look at it as a failure and yes i can see that but i prefer just to know how people might be angry at god because my question quite biblically states that god never lets his people down.
I know i have had some rough lessons from god yet i am still in it and have become stronger through those lessons.
Again, you must see that it is not the atheists who are angry at God, they can't be angry at something they don't believe in.
Why do ex Christians become ex Christians? Perhaps that's a better question. I'm not so sure they are angry at 'God" persee. More that they are not being fulfilled by the dogma of churchianity. One major missing link to the church dogma is that fulfillment comes from within, not by an external deity. If one keeps relying on something external to what's innate in themselves, they will fail, always failure. You can be supported, but at the end of the day you actually have to do something in the process of being. Be as Jesus was, not let him do it all for you.
At some point, when you go deep enough into yourself, you come to see that no amount of praying is going to do it for you. You actually have to become the essence that you are seeking , that takes a massive leap of faith - a faith in yourself to overcome obstacles. When religions teach separation they will fail. Faith is something you have in yourself.
If people are blaming God for their failings, they were obviously not taking responsibility for their own lives.
Its amazing how some posts make the arrogant posters look like 5 yr old kids having a hissy fit. Nice post. well written. lengthy. good conclusions and assessments. I rather believe god is external, something in me did not create the universe. Faith is indeed a big part of 'it'. You either jump in with both feet or you don't.
You are of course welcome to your faith if that's what you want.
My take on is not the same. 'God' being an external entity is the biggest lie forced upon the human race. At the crux of the myth of Adam/Eve is the knowledge that we live in a duality but are not separate. The manipulation to retain this separation is to teach people to look outside of themselves for their 'savior'. This is the 'false God' syndrome!
Faith is required when you don't trust yourself to go beyond the limitations of your current circumstances. To have masses of people use faith to believe there is an external entity is not faith, it's a false belief based on the inability to experience their own essence. And that lack of experience comes from continually being told to look to a book or the head of a religious cult to satisfy a natural need.
When the spiritual seeker becomes more serious about their path and go within, they often leave the cult, leave the church, leave the community that has bound them in a false belief that is confining them.
I was speaking of a person thinking that they have failed God; That person that thinks that they have failed might have set their own bar to high to get over, Doesn't mean they failed.
If the farm boy goes out to the barn every day and lifts the new born calf up off of the ground .. 6 months later he will be lifting over 400 pounds.
Set your own bar low enough that you can rise above it, and then keep up with the progress.
I you are doing the best that you can, you haven't failed.
WELL DONE. God does not expect perfection immediately. In fact just the opposite, he expects us to kick and fuss while we learn and grow. If that kind of sincerity is kept in place that person should not have given up. I know a C. who smoked cigs for 10 months after his acceptance of christ and today he has been quit for 4 months, he never even saw them disappear. Often we see a C. with an obvious nono and the finger goes to waggin.. but really god in his time corrects the errors, if the hearts stays right before him. I suppose the C. could have smoked his entire lifetime and god may put him in the wilderness and then he might have had some drinks at a christmas party and eventually ended up where my question puts him, being mad at god. When do we decide enough is enough.
A Jewish friend once told me,"It's not Jesus we have a problem with...it's the people who work for him."
One would have to believe in God to blame God.
Religion constantly make claims about God that are impossible to prove. I know it's been said before....If one believes that God created the universe...one would have to believe that God also created scientists, doctors,professors,etc.
I would think that an Atheist could care less if I believe in God...as I could care less if they don't. It is an individual choice...either way.
The bottom line....if religions actually followed their own instructions...doing instead of damning ....Atheists...more than likely... still won't believe in God...but they will respect any works of good for humanity.
interesting.. not many atheists respect the good works some try to do here so i wonder how generalized your conclusion is. Perhaps atheists are the maddest, that might be the case in point shown here on hubpages.
I hear about gods workers lol.. JWs on the sidewalk believing in salvation by works (that's why they are there, peddlin their pamphlets) Often, i have noticed a person finds a new thing and just is blown away, OH wow! do you know what kind of fish i can have in this two hundred gallon aquarium! And before they or you know it, there are like 12 aquariums in the livingroom and a huge fish in the two hundred gallon that is eating like a lamb a day lol. Often zest or passion, as they say, eats us up. The new born again, running off at the mouth doing more harm than good. The pastor who preaches the reason to be saved is so you will not burn in hell, which is a wrong reason to be saved but he thinks he is doing god a favor.
Ahhh, things were much easier when god would just light a bush and speak in a loud voice.
thanks for sayin.
I admit I haven't read this thread - but how do you fail at religion? Is there a test? like a test of your faith and if you fail you're on the fast track to hell? Another reason I should stay away from the religion threads - I know I'd fail the tests!
The first chapter of Ezekiel identifies the year that Ezekiel begins having these VISIONS (dreams) 593 BC
These are prophetic in nature. The vision described in chapter 9 was fulfilled when the Babylonian army destroyed Jerusalem and the temple in 586.
These VISIONS generally predict political actions performed by Humanity.
According to scripture; when the society turns away from
"GOD" they remove themselves from his protective grace and then politics steps in and commits crimes against society.
This seems to be the natural order of life.
The evil men do to mankind; all "in the name of power and wealth".
God is so much more than a third person. It's your higher self and the faith and trust you have on yourself, on destiny, on humanity. I am not a fan of religions. I think the relationship with your higher self is what's important and it changes from one person to another. Some people need evidence, scientific proof to believe and that's ok. They are at that specific spiritual level themselves. Others need to feel part of a religious group and that's ok too.
I don't agree or disagree with anyone. As long as people act with respect and kindness towards others, I have no problem with whatever book they read, or what their idea of God is.
I always say - Make love, not war! Peace brothers!!! lol
woman speak through fanned cards!
interesting.. anyone ever fail at the higher self thing?
Do you understand what the Higher Self is hanging out? Obviously you are failing at it for you to mock klarawieck.
When someone believes that "It's always someone else's fault!" who else would a faithless dweeb blame?
Most of the battles are in the 'playground of the mind'
2 Corinthians 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ".
Again the principle is to be trusting and faithful in christ to pull us through every situation.
Hebrews 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God.
God gets blamed for lots of stuff. Mostly it boils down to 'come down off the cross and we will follow you' kind of attitude. Some huge sign and wonder or mighty miracle.
You know, I consider myself an open minded human being --not a slave to the humanism of disbelief or belief. Yet, seeing people post lines from a book to justify their Sunday school misunderstanding of Truth, perturbs me, to no end.
I know you really can't help it, as it was drilled into your brain and you ate it like candy on Easter morning. But seriously, the words you quote, you certainly do not even fully put into practice. So why should both the 'believing' (although that is a stretch of terms) and the 'non-believing' (an equal stretch of terms) accept it as Truth. It is not Truth. It is an example a semantic of a very small faction of the expression of Truth.
Answer this, please, if you are truly of the Spirit: why do you worship words and books? Why do you worship the entities of Ba`al? Why do you pretend to be of Him, while eating steak at Babylons` table? Practicing divination, witchcraft, sorcery and call it righteousness?
Because God does not expect perfection immediately upon salvation. Giving up fleshly ways takes time and that time is called "growth". We start as children and then become teens, and adults and mature gracefully from there. It can take a whole lifetime of growing or christians can rebel and wander in a wilderness for 40 yrs until the unbelief is gone. The wilderness is a type for our example, yep. Worship a book, no.. obey god when he says, study his word, yep. About the closest my friends get to sorcery is watching a stupid movie. I think you exaggerate. There is so much in the word that it is hard to put down, physically. As i have mentioned before these people everyone talks about are not the christians i know. The line is drawn even to a saturday sabbath. Jesus said "the time will come when people will worship in truth and spirit" and those times are coming. New truths are coming out, things are changing.
--of course, ba`al concepts cannot comprehend salvation. But that is not the point. Creator does not expect anything from humans. It is humans who expect from Creator and each other. Which means they do not understand the covenant and certainly not the gift of. Why? Because they still have a need. Where there is need, there is false covenant, deception, pain, fear and things. According to the book worshiped by millions of "believers", salvation is a free gift, attainable only by mercy of the pure sacrifice. Which has already occurred. So all have been given. Yet, still they refuse to accept fully.
Now, this is the root of Ba`al practice/Babylonian mentality. As I put it once, golden shackles, polished perfectly. Still, missing the entire point of who you were designed to be. Still clinging religiously to the law, the sin, the shame, the stain. And as such, continue to serve the false master --the consciousness of yourself. As He asked the first man: Who told you, you were naked? Who told you, you are still a sinner, unclean, unrighteous, unworthy, unable? Ah, but they reply, only through the word am I able. And yes, this is true. however, the Word you are referencing is the book you worship. As the Hebrews put the law in a box and bound it in front of their faces,so you bind the living words into a book and put it between you and Creator. Under the covenant of Sin/Death it says: the word is near you; in you mouth and heart, so that you may do it. And in the correspondences regarding the Law of Life Covenant, it is repeated. The word is near you in your mouth and heart. And again, I write my laws on their hearts. Fulfilling His promise of restoration. In turn, those who understand this, worship in spirit and Truth. How? Simple. They have a testimony. As John states in the Revealing of Y`shua Moshiach: The Word of Creator and the Testimony of Y`shua Moshiach is the Spirit [and the Spirit is Truth] is THE spirit of revealing [all the hidden mysteries of Creator].
So then, where is your testimony. Without a testimony, you remain empty. Even if you fill your head/heart with things. The old winebag is useless. As is the whine-bag mentality. You profess to be a new creation, yet do not understand what the first creation was, why it mutated and now, how to become it. Instead, look in the book and in yourself for the answer. And you will find one. That is the human way. That is the conscious compulsion. To indulge itself. Even as Cain indulged himself. He was accepted, not of this things or sacrificial consciousness (aka golden shackles) even as a Bastard Child of Choice; Able the Son of Purity/Free Will. And he turned his selfish rage and self deception into murder. The murder is the semantic of each believing killing the gift within.
Actually, no. To exaggerate would be to continue to agree with the false god notion. To continue to watch millions suffer for lack of understanding, let alone fear. The sad truth, many --all actually-- have this knowledge, yet choose (ironic) --and in choosing conclude to live like/in Babylon with a twisted form of Free Will/Grace (practicing sorcery/magic, divination and things angels even tremble at --by this I refer to the children of light, not those who have never believed, or once did and turned away). This is the Ba`al belief. This is what the Hebrews did over and over --even when the law came to them, was broken on the back of the calf and came again in tablets, then in the flesh, now in spirit.
There is nothing new under the sun. This Truth has always been. And the truth many are coming to is not the Truth. Sadly, they as have millions of others will live their lives in the Great City and die. Completely missing the point, the gift, the Truth. They sit daily, weekly and sometimes twice on Sunday, reading the book. Talking about the book. Praising 'G/god' for the book, but ignoring the Truth, ignoring Creator, ignoring the restoration and who they really are because of All of the events done on their behalf...
This is why religion and religious practices --of science/equation or of ritual/sensation-- are what they are. It fills the void and gives man a complete feast of applications to enjoy himself. This is why those who tried it waffled from one side of the House to the other. This is why now they resort to apathy, empathy (or worse) to justify their existence and living situation. Together they call it it life, even better Quality of Life.
Even as slaves to Babylon, the Hebrews believed they lived well, and they did, according to that cities rules. Even worse, those who tirelessly and with contrite emotion are so easily deceived into kneeling before the G/gods of that City either in sensational temples or corridors of museums. A slave is still a slave, no matter how rich a slave they are.
At least a pagan knows they are a pagan, but a child of Purity who acts like a pagan is worse than anything else.
In order to "blame" God, I would have to believe in him. I didn't fail at religion; I graduated that stage of primitivism.
So you didn't fail, and you don't believe. Why do you want to be a worthless waste of flesh in a forum on those two subjects? Think someone really cares? Naw, we just really CRAVE pointless interjections into things that obviously shouldn't concern you in the slightest.
Isn't "worthless waste" redundant?
Worthless flesh that I am, I interpreted the question, "why do people, after failing at religion, blame god?" as being open to doubters and skeptics. Indeed, it seemed directed at doubters and skeptics.
Do you crave the belittling of skeptics?
I thought this was pointless. I assume you are a druid as per your name. Does druidism teach you to be so harassing? If so its not something that leads you to a higher state, is it. And if not a higher state that perhaps just a creationism state, pertaining to things created, beasts, and trees, things that cannot talk or think like humans. Stars perhaps. So there was no being that wrote a book of wisdom or that turned around all the commonalities of life and said outrageous things like: love your enemies. Do good to those who hurt you. give without thought for what you have. Or is there any provision for you? Is the world a risky place for you to be in? is chance involved. No protector, No god per say?
hmm, well, thanks for dropping by.
better luck next life?
a recurrent theory or belief, as in philosophy or art, that the qualities of primitive or chronologically early cultures are superior to those of contemporary civilization.
interesting, we will see if 2012 endorses your primitivism viewpoint.
I dont think it will, but see you then.
This thread and the newbie OP are the best argument for some kind of credibility in the way of hubs before being allowed to use the forums as a biblical door knocking excercise. We have been back and forward over these arguments and name calling with those deluded, but relatively respected, christians already here.
We 'normal' people are almost forced to argue against the spread of this desease and the half-baked ideas like intelligent design that are trying to drive society back to the dark ages.
This is supposed to be a writers forum not a nutters soapbox.
Actually, normal is a very relative term. Some confirmed atheists have some pretty strange alternative beliefs
When one enters a forum geared to religious ideas, why in the blue blazes would one expect to find religious people discussing religious things. Some people act like they stumbled in while in a drunken stupor, and still aren't sure of where they are. Excuse MY confusion.
Yes - normal is a relative term, and everyone has strange beliefs relative to every other person - but huge groups of reason-zombies following a redundant pathway laid out to the tune of an ancient brutal and all consuming religion - are patently dangerous in a world where numbers means votes. Even more dangerous when the bottom line is the destruction of mankind itself that they dream of. In a world of swords and spears religion was just a pressure group, in a world where we can actually do the hellfire and brimstone thing that their god is supposed to be famous for - it is dangerous track to mass suicide.
Although much of today's probs can be laid at the feet of certain believers in supreme beings, painting everything with the same brush only leads to more whitewash and propaganda on a different level from a different group. Our probs are as much a product of the godless as the godly. We are all sitting in the same leaking boat. Let's not point fingers at the most covenient one to blame, or at each other. We ALL poked holes in the boat. NOW BAIL!
How can one fail at religion? What a stupid idea!
Religion is a belief in a sky fairy, not something one can succeed at!
Oh dear! I don't believe in fairies, I failed!
No, it is the religious who don't take the blame, you have this wrong, let me explain.
When you have a devil to take the blame, that is religion.
When you don't you accept responsibility for your own actions so that is taking the blame yourself.
"The devil in the corner" is wot made me dunnit is a religious concept which is psychologically unsound and the stuff of psychosis.
Madness always involves this "other than self" blame.
earnestshub wrote Madness always involves this "other than self" blame.
That statement as it stands is true.
Some people blame their boss, coworker, or the guy across the street AND those that blame religion for everything.
Do religionists not understand that this has nothing to do with anyone but themselves?
They are the ones who own a devil to take the blame, the rest of us take responsibility for our actions.
Do you have a concept of right and wrong? Please
NO, I just run around eating my kids and killing people!
What a stupid question!
No hate filled fairy is required to run a moral agenda.
I just asked a simple question. What makes you angry?
Not a simple question, a loaded question.
You don't seem to understand yourself very well...........and why do you find my reply "angry?"
no your question had tones of anger in it..
What a stupid question! there was no need for that.
maybe you don't know yourself very well.. a lot of your posts have anger in fact i may be so bold as to say.. you are motivated by anger. supressed anger perhaps but there is anger in many of your posts.
Those who don't share your beliefs are all apparently angry.
Weak. Just weak!
Why don't you address the point I made?
Actually that would make history here!
you made a point now that would be history.
sorry i seldom read your insertions.
are you talking about this?
"NO, I just run around eating my kids and killing people! "
did u just swear? bulldust? is that a swear word?
Thankyou for proving my point about your anger if you did swear.
mirrors are handy y'know.
maybe some of the atheists just enjoy winding you up because they get a reaction? I can't see how a true atheist can be angry at something they don't believe in. As for an agnostic/ex-christian (like me), I was angry at God intially because I still believed God existed. but I'm believing less and less - the God of the OT is a monster if you really cared to read the bible properly
why do people, after failing at religion, blame god?
Nevermind; some people are used to blaming others for their failures.
Earnist I am agreeing with ya; Madness always involves this "other than self" blame. Everyone on earth is blaming someone else for something ?????
Everyone is doing it to someone about something.
Democrats are blaming the Republicans. The poor are blaming the rich. etc. etc.
When any group gets together they blame the guy that isn't there.
OK, so some religionists are blaming the devil for their bad behaviour .. and yours !
And that is different how?
They can blame da debil for whatever they like, just leave me out of it.
I mean this in the kindest way ....
THEY would have left you out of it, until you came into the conversation. I'm glad that you did. You serve a worthwile purpose in life as well as in the conversation.
I'm Just saying ?? Don't stand in front of a believer if ya don't want them to pray for ya.
I feel the earge. Here it comes
May God bless you Earnest
The truth is Jerami that no "believer" ever wishes any good on non believers, praying for me is the same as telling me I am wrong isn't it?
I didn't say I'd pray or ya.
Do you need praying over? That ain't for me to say!
I just wished ya the best wishes that I know how. Thats all.
"I'm Just saying ?? Don't stand in front of a believer if ya don't want them to pray for ya.
I feel the earge. Here it comes
May God bless you Earnest"
Ya caught me....My mistake; in the context that it was written, following the previous sentence, I shoulda said, I feel "AN" earge, instead of "THE" earge. Then "legally speaking" it would have had a diffrent meaning.
"THE" ties the two sentences together.
I was attempting a play on words that backfired on me.
I feel "an" earge (not "THE" earge) to send ya my best wishes
i see a hubber yochanan also doesn't believe in satan and theres a book about it and a few books written over the years about no satan. If there is no satan, why aren't you onboard with this concept since it seems to parallel your own?
People cannot fail something that does not matter.
People don't fail religion, they wake up to the truth isn't not a requirement for living life or to understanding life.
As for blaming a god. That's as much a joke as religion is.
I fail to understand you.. does that mean you do not matter?
You failing to understand is not a surprise.
No. And if I need to clarify, then you do not understand the meaning of knowledge and wisdom. Because, of all your posts throughout this entire thread...come from a lack of knowledge and wisdom, which is blatant obvious.
But, you keep quoting scripture, considering that's all you are good for. Enjoy.
people don't fail at religion... most religions fail those who can think critically... if you curse "god" for your storyline you are cursing the tides of fortune... actually, no, you are cursing yourself because each of you are your own god...
It is strange how people can express themselves using almost the same words yet the crux of their message be so different.
And argueing, using diffrent terminology yet saying the same thing.
Many people believe that the Holy Ghost has to come in and then they find what they were looking for.(God)
Others believe that it was there all along, Ya just have to look within to find it. (Self)
It seems that it is not enough to find "it" but we have to describe it the same way too ??
Hope that you can tell that I'm not disagreeing with ya.
people blame "God" because he/she/it is the perfect scapegoat because He/she/it cannot reply to your stupid question. GET IT?
upon reading the question again i find i also said god never lets people down and this i have found to be true. Therefore since the question has the modifier of 'never letting people down' the answer should be addressed upon that basis. I modified it to show myself who can answer questions properly and who just wants to rave. You fell into both categories hehe. I don't think it is a stupid question i think people carry guilt along ways and i think due to improper teaching or some stubborness of their own flesh people walk away. People can fail at anything, budhism, flight attendant and even atheism (which may not be revealed until they are lying on their deathbed hehe).
Many of us who are less optimistic about religion have come to realize religion failed us. Too many lies, superstitions and loop holes. Too many things that never add up.
So we are on our own journey about why there is a universe, and why and how we are a part of it.
Seems a lot more natural than believing in something in which we were told to believ. We are experiencing what we believe. And therefore, every experience is going to be different, and that is the way it should be.
Well if we have to blame somebody for our failure, it might as well be God, after all, it's not like he's going to strike us down with a bolt of lightening or anything.
I'm not anti-theist so i can't answer your question which stems from assumption.
God does not intervene with the progression of life! If a child is starving in a third world country then that is the progression of the life in that country! If God intervened with every incident in the world he might as well end the world and take everyone to heaven! Atheist wouldn't exist because God would be well known by his works! But God said people would look for a sign but none would be given!
Also, we throw away more food in America than it would take to feed so many hungry children! God helps others through people! He wants us to help others! If we don't then that is the problem! Many drive around in expensive cars and buy things they really don't need yet they blame God for starving children. Maybe they should look in the mirror and point the finger at the true guilty one!
You can't very well blame God for starving children if you clear a 1000 a week and send only 20 a month to charity for hungry children then you're out driving around in a brand new car and wearing designer clothes! I think many people like to blame others. I'm sure some do donate... but I'm sure they donate such a small amount compared to their income it's a joke! Yet they have luxaries! Then they point the finger at God!
It's not God's fault that children are starving... it's every man and woman in the world who look at it and turn away!
I agree with you. If everyone on this planet would reach out to one other in need, we could end the starvation. It is a lack of empathy and action on the part of people that needs to change.
Does god intervene in anything or with anyone? If so, why does he intervene in that and not intervene with the starving?
Why doesn't god allow the starving to help people, why is it the other way round?
Then, god does not help anyone at all? Everyone helps themselves?
God helps us through others! He does not intervene magically like he did back in the Bible days!
How could starving people help others when they can't help themselves? They are the ones starving so everyone should help them! Why would those not hungry need help by starving people?
God gave us all wisdom...some more than others!!! And some of us have been fortunate. Those of us who have been more fortunate are supposed to help those who aren't! But few do! That is where the problem lies!
Does god help you in any way or do others help you?
How do you know that, did he tell you?
God can feed them and then they can feed others. Oh wait, why doesn't god just feed everyone instead?
Because god can help them just like he helps others.
No, the problem lies in god helping some people while ignoring others.
Does god help you?
WHY ? WHY ? WHY ?
Some people just can't get that word off the end of their tongue.
Why do some farmers get rain when others do not?
Why do some people get cancer and others don't?
Why do some people have a job and others don't?
Why can't mushrooms grow in the direct sunlight?
Why can a tree not grow in a dark cave ?
Why are there so many people starving.
If we are really looking or the answers to these and many other questions we WILL find them.
But when we pass over the true answers and keep looking ,?.?
We never do.
What "true" answers, Jerami?
Those questions could be answered simply by saying, "Gods don't answer prayers for anyone."
See how all the pieces of the puzzle fit together with a simple "true" answer?
But unfortunately life and the universe isn't that simple.
Sometimes the only true answer is "I Don't Know"
Oh, but Christians do in fact claim to know, Jerami. That is why this question cannot be answered truthfully by them.
That's exactly what we have been trying to tell you. It is you who is confusing yourself, by inserting an imaginary, illogical, Bronze Age superstition into the debate. WOW!!!
I think it's nonsense to say "God should feed the hungry". He said for us to feed the hungry!
It's the same as if you owned a business with a 1000 employees and you worked in a different city. One of them needs paper....all the rest have plenty of paper but wont give the one employee paper! I'm sure you would either fire some people or tell them "HELLO, give the guy some paper!"
You are not going to go all the way in another city to give one employee paper when you have so many other employees there with plenty of paper!
If you came all the way from your city to give them paper the rest would become lazy because they know you are going to bring them paper so what is the point in them getting it for themselves!
God allows the natural progression of humans! He does not intervene as he did in the Bible days! If we drink ourselves into a state of liver disease he doesn't intervene because we brought that disease on ourselves! If we are lazy and dont work he is not going to pay our bills for us! If we cheat on our spouse and he or she leaves us he is not going to bring that spouse back to us because we are sorry!
Some diseases are on the innocent! This is just human nature! If God saved everyone from death and hunger there would be no deaths in the world! There would be over-population and everyone would starve! Thus, he allows nature to take it's course!
God gave me brains, two hands and two feet. I work for my food and I pay my own bills! He said that if a man don't work for his food he shouldn't eat! If I don't work then I am not going to eat!
We can't say God should feed the hungry! We should feed the hungry!
If I am born from a family of great wealth... that is not God's fault. It is my heritage! If someone is born from a family that is poor...that is not God's fault it is their heritage! It has been passed down from generation to generation! Some break free from those bonds while others simply can't! But God is not the blame for any of it! There are plenty of people with so much wealth they just let it sit in the bank and rot while so many go hungry! God wants those people to feed the hungry!
How does God help me you ask??? He gave me a human brain! He told me to feed the hungry! He told me to work for my food! He told me to have compassion for others! If I don't do my part, like others should, I can't blame God!
If God did feed everyone then what is the point in being on Earth? He should just take everyone to heaven if that is the case!
Everybody points the finger at someone! Be it God, a neighbor, or the rich! We should all take a look in the mirror. That's where it starts!
Why should you feed the hungry? Why shouldn't they feed you instead? Why are you not hungry?
You are saying that god gives food to only one person and that person has to feed everyone else? What makes that one person so special?
Okay, so god does not intervene in anyone's life at all and does not answer prayers? Is this what you're saying? Why do so many Christians believe god does answer their prayers?
People who starve to death are ready, willing and able to work to get food, yet they starve to death.
Christians say that god feeds them, why shouldn't he then feed the hungry if he feeds them?
Beelzedad I know you are smarter than that!
You ask: Why should you feed the hungry? Why shouldn't they feed you instead? Why are you not hungry?
I am not hungry because I work and buy my food! Common sense tells me that the hungry cannot feed me because they don't have food! I'm not hungry because I have food that I obtained from working hard to get it!
You ask: You are saying that god gives food to only one person and that person has to feed everyone else? What makes that one person so special?
I did not say God gives food to one person. There are millions of people with plenty of food! There are many, many people who have millions of dollars and yet they keep it all to themselves! Nothing makes anyone so special! They either worked hard to get their money or they were born in a family of wealth! Nothing special about it! The people who have so much are supposed to share but they don't!
You ask: Okay, so god does not intervene in anyone's life at all and does not answer prayers? Is this what you're saying? Why do so many Christians believe god does answer their prayers?
If they are eating, they either worked for the money to buy the food or their family gave it to them! Christians give thanks to God for everything because Christians want to give God the thanks for allowing them to do work for their food! Some Christians will say God gave them this or that... but in reality God gave us all the same tools. We all have brains, two hands, and two feet! We can either use what God gave us to work and eat or not! If we eat we should thank God... for he gave us the tools to begin with to be able to work! God does not come down and magically feed people! We have to put forth effort!
You ask: People who starve to death are ready, willing and able to work to get food, yet they starve to death.
As I stated before our heritage plays an important role in our lives! Some are born in wealth while others, sadly, are born in poverty. Neither is God's fault or doing! It's not their fault they were born in poverty but it wasn't God's fault either! It is the natural progression of humans! Just as in the animal kingdom... some animals starve while other feed! If all the animals lived happily ever after there would be huge issues... all the carnivores would eat all the prey animals and there would be problems in the ecosystem! When zooligist go into the animal world they have strict rules to not interfere with the animals! If a lion cub has it's foot caught in a tree they cannot help it! This would damange the natural progress! How can we realize this, yet not realize God's reasoning for not interfering with our natural progression in life?????
We can't blame God for any of our problems! And we can't expect him to bail us out of anything!
You ask: Christians say that god feeds them, why shouldn't he then feed the hungry if he feeds them?
Again, I've answered this before but I will again! If they are eating they either worked for it or someone gave it to them! God blesses them in the fact that he gave them a brain, two hands, and two feet to work for it!
So, we don't interfere with the animal world because it's nature! But God should intervene with us? That makes a lot of sense! Those of us who have should help those who don't!
Oh, I see now, so the people who are starving to death never received the brains, the hands and feet that you did? They have a different set of tools or no tools at all? Why didn't god give them the same tools as you?
Yes, but that only brings up another contradiction. Did god not give brains to those who are starving? If not, why not?
No, but arable land is a factor. Oppressive governments are a factor. Storms, earthquakes, floods, pestilence. Sounds pretty biblical. So does taking care of each other. Homeless people where some have three or four homes isn't god's fault. Not enough food in a gluttonous nation isn't god's fault. Shipping poisons to third world countries isn't god's fault. Dumping toxins by the ton into our ecosystem isn't god's fault. How do you function with your eyes so tightly closed?
Then, god is not a factor at all, in essence, he does not exist, correct?
Exactly Druid Dude!
Their heritage, where they come from, the land and many other factors causes people to be hungry! God gave them the tools too. They just have surroundings that keep them from using those tools!
Why would God intervene? Do we intervene in the desert when a lion is starving? I dont think anyone does! It's nature!
God created those surroundings. didn't he? Did god then make it such that they would starve despite giving them the same tools? Why would he create surroundings in which people would starve to death?
Aren't you grasping at straws beelzedad?
Yes he created those surroundings! He created the entire heavens and earth! Parts of their world, through natural progression, is tough to survive in!
It all goes back to natural progression.
None of us are from our natural area are we? We migrated to America! I'm not sure where you are from but your ancient family may have migrated as well...as most did!
We can't blame God for everything going wrong in this world! Most of it is nature taking it's course! And much of it is from man himself!
Someone blows up something in a third world country and people blame God? That is men doing that, not God!
If people are starving then it is our place to feed them! Yet there are people with millions who don't!
Don't blame God! Everyone should do their part to make things better! We can't do everything...but if everyone would stop blaming the wrong person and look at himself or herself and do the best they can to help others then the world would be a much better place!
No, I believe it is you who is grasping at straws as you attempt to explain one contradiction with another.
So what? God should have known that and known that people would starve to death.
Yes, I understand how you want to blame mankind for your gods shortcomings and lack of foresight.
They claim that god tells them to blow up people.
No, it is your gods place to feed them. He created them so he should feed them too.
Then, we can blame the Christians who claim their god feeds them.
No I dont think so Beelzedad! God created man and man destroys the environment and each other!
God created man... and he created the land and everything for them to survive! We are the ones who mess things up!
Why should God feed us when there's enough food but we have stingy people?
We dont' have to agree Beelzedad! I believe what I believe and you believe what you believe! There is never going to be agreement between such two far ends of the spectrum.
Aside from God! Wouldn't you agree there are many people on this planet who have plenty but do nothing? Shouldn't they be helping the hungry? Aside from God!!! Wouldn't you agree with have many who are greedy and stingy? Keeping all their wealth to themselves and doing nothing for the hungry except pointing their finger?
The more you make those claims, the more you convince me that your god does exist and that is the world he created.
God created the mountain tops. They have their purpose.
If we were to build a city up there and were unable to sustain ourselves and died, would that be Gods fault for making it that way.
If people are unable to live where they are at, is it Gods fault if they stay there?
Or is it mankind's fault for not allowing them to migrate to where they can survive? OH it is Gods fault for making us behave the way that we do?
If I tried to live under the ocean but died trying, is that Gods fault?
If I get drunk and drive into a tree and die, is that Gods fault. Or if I run over a child is that Gods fault cause he created me so stupid.
Sure everything is Gods fault, He created rich families for the babies to be born into and he made poor families for babies to be born into. Life isn't fair?
Should he have created everyone with the same number of dollars in their pockets? Even if he did some of us a will steal dollars from the next guy.
You ask why didn't God crete a perfect world?
I read someplace that he did, but then sombody messed it up and are still doing so.
So, does your god answer your prayers, Jerami? Is he fair about it?
Then what is the need for God? You are inserting God where there is no need to. Your statement would actually be true if you simply stated: People help others.
Again, of what worth is God, if everything can be done without him? It seems like God is erroneously taking credit for the hard work of compassionate human beings.
This is nonsense.
God created us! He gave us brains! People should help out each other!
Everything cannot be done without God... we wouldn't be here if he hadn't created us!
God said for us to help each other and to feed those who are hungry! But most people just stick their money in the bank or buy luxaries! Some christians are just as guilty! Someone who is over a church who can go out and buy a mansion and a new sports car is not doing his part either! I think almost all people are lacking in compassion in today's time! Yet they want to point the finger at God or whoever else they can!
Does the word omnipotent have a different definition in your equation, and if it does, how do you, and other nonthinking believers, define it?
Because it appears that your God has selective omnipotence, which is absurd. You describe an all powerful quack, who is powerless! And you really think you are making sense.
This is surely willful ignorance, with no depth.
No it does not Getitrite! He is omnipotent... he choses not to interfere just as we chose not to interfere with animals in nature!!
He is powereful! I never said he wasn't! He expects us to help each other and feed ourselves! He expects us to work for our food! And just as in the animal kingdom, some die and some starve... but we dont' interfere do we? Hmmm... we dont interfere with animals in nature, but we expect God to magically help us and bail us out!
And just how does a mortal like you KNOW this?
And just how can your mind conceive of an all powerful being who NEEDS OUR HELP? That CONTRADICTS the premise, and exposes the slimy deceitful nature of your religion. I thought bearing false witness was a sin.
No offense, but do you think this analogy is even related to the premise of an all powerful GoD? WE ARE NOT THE SAME TO THESE ANIMALS AS GOD IS TO US!!!
The only answer that makes sense is that God is not REAL.
You can go on talking in circles forever, but that is the only answer that makes sense. God is a delusion.
To me, and 80% of the world you are talking in circles and believing rubbish!
You are absolutely correct. We are different than animals! However, if we interfere with animals in nature we disturb the balance of nature. It's the same concept with god and us. If he pulled all of us out of harms way or magically fed everyone, nobody would die. The world would be uncomfortable to live in!
If you dont' believe God exists that is your business! I believe he does! That is my right!
Have a nice day!!
80% of the world is insane, and you think it's ok, because you think that this, somehow, validates your nonsensical belief in a nonsensical deity?
I don't need others, who are insane, to validate my findings.
And my findings is that God is imaginary.
We are not different from animals, and I never stated that!!!
Please go back and read my post.
You certainly have the right to be delusional, but I would prefer you not say anything about it, because your responses look downright absurd.
Oh! And have a nice day!
"80% of the world is insane, and you think it's ok, because you think that this, somehow, validates your nonsensical belief in a nonsensical deity?
I don't need others, who are insane, to validate my findings.
And my findings is that God is imaginary."
I'd say that a rational man may just see that when 80% of the world view things diametrically than he does, that he MAY just consider that he was the one who was wrong?
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing wrong repetitively, and having endured your posts for 10 months, seeing the same inane comments (and as Jerami correctly states you just ignore what you don't like) I would say that staying here pouring out the garbage you do is possibly a sign that you have problems to be dealt with.
"Oh look, all those soldiers are out of step except getitrite"
Or a rational man, after investigating the premise rationally, just may have to, sadly, conclude that 80% of the world is insane. I'm a freethinker.
You do realize it is you who has the problem, because I shouldn't have to keep saying these facts over and over?
My hope is that maybe one day you will see that your beliefs are ACTUALLY insane.
I realize you are suffering from a psychosis. I'm aware that you are going to become angry when I shake the foundation of your delusion, because your delusion has possessed you.
It's ashame that you keep right on trying to debunk logic, common sense, and facts, while trying desperately to promote nonsense as reason.
...yeah, and the emperor is naked!!!
Still blaming that unseen thing you don't believe in for the failings of man. Curiouser and curiouser. Man has to help himself, charity begins at home, we are the problem, because being a cold mutha scores more points. We love blood and killing, especially if it's a surprise. we can't be decent, moral, unless we are forced to. Some think that we are just so civilized, so much so that our own self determination should free us from "other" peoples rules. It's not the ones who are deluded by non-existant gods, it's those who think that man is cool and fine and is mature enough to be his own god. You are all too willing to throw the baby out with the bathwater. A little study beyond the end of your nose would help put things in a perspective which would reveal that unraveling the fabric of civilization, there is a god standing there, somewhere.
Always remember that when you point a finger at God there are three more fingers pointing back at yourself
Funny, I can only see one finger pointing. Where are these other fingers located? Can you see them?
Generally can't see a fart, but it's there. You would be surprised at what can be seen with open eyes.
Yes, you can see it, with a microscope, particles of feces in the air.
I'm much more surprised of the things people imagine they see that aren't there.
As I am those people who can't see what so obviously is. Are the stars and planets there? Are the lines in my hand there? Is Elvis really singing "Amazing Grace" in the clouds? Did someone really foretell the coming of the www? The war on terrorism? Even that Geo Bush II would be replaced by someone whose motives are suspect? Are people saved everyday by atheism? Is the eradication of religious people (who will always be among you) morally acceptable with no spiritual guidance to say otherwise. Do you trust your fellow man to watch your back? Have YOU EVER BEEN IN A FOXHOLE?
Arguing points with people who simply believe you to be a tool of the devil seems pretty pointless. Do you have a point? Does blindness have a point? Does perceiving beyond your pitiful existence have a point? What is the point of human existence? Just so monkeys could wear Tommy Hilfiger? What point do you perceive man's to be?
that's typical of church people - assign the blame on the person. I had no self-esteem when I was a christian
God do this and that dont
God want this and that not
and blah blah blah............
I think we do not understand the God. In my opinion God is not what all the religions say about God. God is not human, if he is not human then he do not think like humans and see things like we do. So the bottom line is ''good things'' and the ''bad things'' are the same to God like just ''things'' not good not bad. If dying children in Africa or all other bad things are bad thing in God's opinion then ''by default'' he wouldn't allow it to be happen. As we all think that by default God wants good thing to be happen and he personally doing very good things. Just think about it
These are my thoughts on this topic, which is philosophy or whatever you name it
P.S. I do believe in one God.
Okay, let's think about it.
Well, it would seem based on your logic that god thinks starving children in Africa is a good thing and god is personally doing that good thing by making those children starve.
My logic is that god is responsible for everything happening in this world because he made it and supposed to run this whole mess. I said that what we think bad is may be not bad in god's opinion, so I am still right that god is starving children and still doing good because he thinks it is good. Why? we never know
If my theory is wrong then there is no god
Personal insult, should I report you or will you remove it?
Then, it would appear by your logic there is no god. A loving god would never allow innocent children to starve to death.
getitrite wrote ...
Again, of what worth is God, if everything can be done without him? It seems like God is erroneously taking credit for the hard work of compassionate human beings.
- - - - - -
I don't see God taking anything. I see people giving him credit when they think it is due.
It has been my experience that the more credit I give to God, the better my life appears to be.
And yet, no amount of credit given by the starving Christians of the world makes their lives any better. The still die of starvation. Funny how you get preferential treatment, Jerami. How does that work?
Well, I am glad that I wasn't born underneath a rock.
So I guess where our parents choose to be when we are born can be seen as a blessing.
And there will always be problems when the population grows to such an extreme that there isn't enough food to support it.
If God stepped in and corrected all o mankind's mistakes the world would be more chaotic than it already is.
Then can you admit that these people are lunatics, giving an illogical, imaginary cause(God) credit for doing absolutely nothing? If they think an imaginary deity deserves credit for other people's work, I think that's insane. Your God is absolutely worthless! Worthless!
Good, hard working, compassionate people deserve all the credit, for they are the ones doing the work. Your God, who is imaginary, is powerless, just like all imaginary characters are.
A mind is a terrible thing to waste---on nonsense like this.
No body is following their owen religion .
NO body is giving the assurence the following
1. muslims only can reach GOD
2. Hindus only can reach GOD
3.Christians only can reach GOD
and so on ........
Every body can feel a Holy POWER in between life period.
Then they come towards GOD with Blame.
Beelzedad wrote ...
You are saying that god gives food to only one person and that person has to feed everyone else? What makes that one person so special?
_ - - - - - -
Just as the rest of the animal kingdom does; Mankind fights over food. The biggest and strongest usually wins
Some people have enough to feed the world and don't.
Some people don't get any.
Whos fault is that.
you can call this a universal rule. Like somebody born in rich family gets everything and another person born in poor family gets just nothing. What you can say about this whos fault is that. I think it is nobody' s fault except the god, who made this thing happen
It is not a fault of GOD .It is a test for all of us. We have to submit account.
Devil asked GOD about YOOBU [in Bible]. YOOBU is a person who has tendency to praise GOD always. GOD allow Devil to do any thing on YOOBU other than LIFE. But YOOBU is in strong belive to GOD. Devil failed.
IN our life we have to ask GOD for tendency as like YOOBU.
Rich is for poor
poor is for rich
wealth is for sick
sick is for wealth
so on ....
Most of all are failing.
Bill Gates...It's all his fault. No... It's the easter bunnies fault. No! Wait. It must be my fault. My wife blames me for everything. I'm SO BAD!
The burden still falls on God. No matter how much you defend God's irresponsible behavior, if reality is ALL his creation, then He is ultimately responsible.
What is stopping you from understanding that?
Man is to blame for walking away, turning a blind eye, and justifying non-interference. Either you have a choice, or god changes even your dirty diapers. You all are pretty sad, blaming something that you neither understand, nor do you believe in.
Should we then blame those who claim god answers their prayers?
I do believe in one god but not your religious theories about god
My theories? What theories are those? And as for prayers, maybe you should blame the prayers who pray for the downfall of western civilization. Or the self deluded fools who pray for a new Ferari. Health professionals have tons of stories you probably scoff at. Are they uneducated idiots?
Thanks, but you really have nothing to share at all, just a bunch of drivel disguised as wisdom.
------- - - - - -
This is your favorite comment when someone does answer your questions. Step right over it as if it didn't exist.
getitrite wrote ...Or a rational man, after investigating the premise rationally, just may have to, sadly, conclude that 80% of the world is insane. I'm a freethinker.
Free thinker ??? or free to think from out of one box instead of the other.
Free thinker ???? If you say so ... lol
Freethought is a philosophical viewpoint that holds that opinions should be formed on the basis of science, logic, and reason, and should not be influenced by authority, tradition, or any dogma.
Are you implying that the box of reason, science, and logic or on par with the box of nonsense, foolishness, superstition, fear of authority, belief in Bronze Age myths, etc...??
What I myself would really like to know is the reason
that people who once believed in God stop
especially when they have a terrible car crash.
What made them lose God?
It doesn't happen to everyone though, many people suffer excruciateingly and still love God and feel they need Him.
I think that if ya ever "truly" believe, I ya ever had any of "THOSE" experiences that ya never quit believing.
I often wonder if I hold the right prospective of him or understanding of what is. But I have no doubts that he is.
I think maybe we simply grew up, and stopped believing in Imaginary beings.
In other words, we now know that there is no monster in our closet, no Santa, or no nonsensical God.
Does that make sense?
I fail to see what a car crash has to do with any of this.
Being in a car crash does not automatically produce evidence for a God. It remains the same: there is no evidence to support the existence of a God.
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