If a woman is unable to have children, does that mean God doesn't want her to be a mom?
well if that is true it would apply to all the species on earth and god would have full time job keeping track of that only...isn't it?...humans are mere one of species and we have 2 million other species...
True. However, humans are the one species that have the ability to become mothers through other means, such as adoption. I'm wondering if a woman cannot become a mother naturally, does this mean perhaps that God has a different plan for her and that it should be accepted.
If God does exist, he certainly doesn't want you to lay about regretting the impossible when so many other possibilities exist. Take action on your own behalf, and give God credit if it works out.
Many people take action on their own behalf. Some see that as selfish. Again, this is not always about what we want.
I don't know about that. When I was a teenager my dog adopted my motherless kitten. It was sooooo cute. Of course when he tried to feed my kitty a bone, I kind of had to intervene. Aside from the feeding part. He was a marvellous parent, friend, protector haha!
I do believe adoption and foster parenting is an amazing thing to do. I was thinking more about women who want to experience their own childbirth.
What we "want" and what we "need" are two very different things. We are only ever given what we need. No more no less.
I'm not sure I agree. What about women who have five, six, seven children? Is that what she needs? And what about a woman who cannot have even one? She doesn't need it?
Only God will know that. We cannot profess to know. That is perhaps where we go wrong. We think we know what we need. Didn't God say we will be given everything you need? Not to worry. Can't actually remember the passage. But the gist of it was that.
I might want a million dollars. Do I need it? Probably not but I might still want it.
Helpful Hanna, I misunderstood what you meant originally, but since you've clarified that you mean, "should a woman just accept not having children and think, 'oh, well - God didn't want me to have a baby'", I'd raise the issue that many people who believe in God will say how bad things in life are often "a test". Even someone who doesn't think God is the one doing the testing, many bad things in life (such as not being able to have a baby if one wants to) do amount to kind of being a "life test" much of the time. In other words, some people might think if having a baby doesn't come easily, a test might be how much a woman is willing to pursue in order to become a mother. Another test might be whether that woman realizes that "having the experience" of having a baby is pretty much nothing, compared to all the other emotional issues, responsibilities, demands, and the ability to put someone else first go.
If someone knows, for sure, that she isn't going to pursue becoming a mother beyond trying to have a baby herself, that's her business and her choice. Maybe she "wasn't meant to be a mother" more because she isn't willing to do what it may take, and overcome the things she has to, in order to keep trying.
If someone who has kept pursuing all avenues but has tired of trying to have/adopt a child has decide it's time to just accept never having one's own children, I don't think that's a bad thing. We all have to accept a lot of the crummy stuff in life. Never having children one hoped to have is one of those crummy things. A lot of people do just make peace with it and do other things with their life and whatever love they have to share.
Being a mother "naturally" doesn't have anything to do with giving birth (I know what you meant, but the word "naturally" seemed to call for a comment anyway). For some women, one of the most natural things in the world is to be able to form a powerful, mother/child bond, with a child who has been handed to her and who needs a mother.
A woman needs to follow her own heart when it comes to how much she's willing to do (and go through) for how long if she's experiencing fertility problems (or even if she doesn't have a husband when the biological clock ticks louder). Some women may not be interested in pursing being a mother beyond "the usual". Others are willing to keep going through all kinds of fertility stuff and struggles until they either get sick of it or too old to keep trying.
Should all those mothers who went through a lot of difficult stuff in order to become mothers have just given up and thought, "Oh well, it's not meant to be?" Many will tell you they believe the fact that they eventually became mothers is something that sure feels like a gift from God.
I know you said you just posted this for discussion, but since you originated the discussion it would be interested if you'd been more upfront about "where you're coming from". What do you believe, personally? Do you have children yet? Are you a woman? Are you considering adoption? Did you just throw out the question as a way of seeing what other people say? Why? Are you writing a paper? Are you a religious person who is against one kind of adoption or another?
I don't really expect (or need) any answers to the above questions that your thread raised for me. I just think if you were more frank about your own beliefs/ideas and personal experience, the discussion you wanted to get going would go better than this one has.
I'm not asking for your personal business; but if you, personally, are struggling with infertility and the decision to start (or keep going with) pursing becoming a mother (versus just accepting it); I think maybe someone could offer more supportive remarks (or even a little insight). (This thread does kind of hint that you're anti-adoption.)
God would never intentionally make us in such a way that would make us sad. It isnt' a perfect world. However, He can bring good out of a difficult situation. Imagine all those who wouldn't be adopted if everybody could have their own children?
Ok this is more than just one question Hanna...
It's very big and convulated answer but you will generally get one or two short unhelpful answers.
God loves us. He wants the best for us. Sin entered the world and changed the way God planned things. Not being able to have a child is result of sin ENTERING the world (not sin in a persons life --- Christians confuse this and then thus warp the view of God) -- God's will is a very big study... but if you look at it through the lense of sin entering the world and messing up God's perfect plan, and us now having to be redeemed through Jesus Christ which isn't a necessarily going to be like winning lottery when you accept him.
God still wants the best for her. I don't know what his good perfect and pleasing will is for this particular woman.
Planned-- like God planned that Jesus would save us... but the idea was that we live connected to God, walking and talking with God in the Garden of Eden. I hope this makes sense.
That's the very good short answer! Which I hope is what mine reflected showing the fallacy in how some people misinterpret things!
Yes yours was very clear and I didn't need to add to that except my huge reply haha.
Excellent!! Yes it is definitely an outstanding "No"
It is hard to say, I think. There are advantages and disaddvantages about this. In a word, every life has their own highlights,just love what you have and believe your choice.Life will be better
With treatment and prayers a woman can always have children after marriage.
no it means she is unable to have children...
Absolutely not...there are so many children waiting to be adopted.
"In each life you choose and create your own settings or environments; and in this one you chose your parents and whatever childhood incidents that came within your experience. You wrote the script. Like a true absent minded professor, the conscious self forgets all this, however, so when tragedy appears in the script, difficulty or challenges, the conscious self looks for someone or something to blame." (SETH SPEAKS)
Maybe another answer, true, false, who knows.
I think I may have been introduced to SETH about 40 years ago.
If the same Seth? He was wise !
We are not talking about blaming here. I am simply asking whether or not the inability to have children may be part of God's plan. Should it be accepted at the first sign of difficulty or challenge? Or should women seek medical treatment, adoption, etc.?
Most people who want to have children will find a way to have them, through treatment, adoption, etc. whether they believe it to be part of a gods plan or not. The reason for this is because most people do the things they do whether they believe it is part of a gods plan or not anyways.
So, if you want to have children, just have them.
Ahhh. SOOO refreshing to have a sane answer from you!
If God has a plan for us, it should be followed. It isn't just about what we want. That can be of little importance when looking at the greater picture.
How do you mean if? Are you saying you are not sure? What is there to follow if you are not sure whether there is a plan? We can believe there is a plan if we want. However, plans usually have blue prints. If you do not have one how can there be a plan. How can you see the bigger picture?
You can't always see the bigger picture. I don't know every detail of my plan.
Oh ok so you beleive it is Gods plan that you do or do not have a child right? So allowing the plan to unfold will reveal to you the bigger picture yes?
That is my whole question. I don't know one way or the other. Is it God's plan whether or not a woman can have children? I just don't know. The picture isn't always clear to us, sometimes until later in life. Sometimes never in life. I was just curious.
That question makes it a little clearer somehow. Sometimes, if a woman has a fixable/treatable fertility problem; and then she has a baby, obviously, it wasn't God's plan that she not have a baby.
There's one common thing a lot of young women do: They may be single, early/mid-20's, and not particularly want to have a baby at the time. They may also feel like they can't imagine ever giving up their carefree life and becoming mothers. They may wonder if they "just aren't mother material" and imagine living life without becoming a mother. A few years later, when they're more ready, they start to want to have a baby after all.
So, in answer to your question, it makes a difference how old the woman is and whether she even wants a baby.
That's interesting. I hadn't taken age into consideration as much as physical ability. I was thinking that sometimes we don't want to accept things or we try to force what we want and I wasn't sure when to know that we just have to accept our path as it is, even when different from what we thought it would be. Thank you.
Yes, but my point was that people will do whatever they want despite a gods plan. I'm quite sure there are things that you do yourself that don't follow gods plan exactly. What would be the difference here, then?
I'm not a religious person at all, but assuming there's God, I don't think anyone on Earth can guess what God wants or doesn't want. Personally, I don't believe God gets involved in some things, such as whether someone is living under a lot of stress (which might affect the ability to have children), who gets exposed to something like infection or scar tissue (another cause), or who has some "issue" with something like ovulating. That's the "intellectual"/reasoning kind of thinking I have on this question.
Then there's "the mother thinking" I've done since I have been a mother (one adopted child, two biological children, one second-trimester miscarriage). The "mother thinking" in me (or the "mother part of me") has always deeply felt that those three children are "gifts from God". I once commented to someone about how when I adopted my first son (for reasons other than infertility), I sometimes wondered if God "sent him to me" because He knew I wouldn't be having children myself. Then I had children myself and that "pondering" went down the drain. The person I was talking to kind of through me a curve ball when she said, "Has it ever occurred to you that maybe God sent you to him?" (to my son). It hadn't, but once she asked that, I started to think maybe that could be the case too.
Either way, your question implies that adoptive mothers (at least those who couldn't have children) shouldn't have been mothers. Even animals will "adopt" babies who have no mother to care for them sometimes (sometimes of their own species; sometimes even of another species). (Go to YouTube and look up some examples.) It just seems to me that something that occurs in animals and in Nature cannot be something God would "frown on", and if there are going to be babies who need mothers then I'd think God would approve of anyone who would step up and become mother for that baby/child/young creature, in the case of animals.
Another angle might be to ask why God would let people who are horrible, cruel, loser, mothers have four or five kids? Does that mean that God has no standards when it comes to nurturing one's own children - or might it mean he doesn't dabble in who ought to, and who ought not, have children?
Then there's the "everything happens for a reason" kind of thinking that a lot of people. I'd think, even if that's the case, the reason one woman doesn't have a baby today may have nothing to do with God thinking she shouldn't be a mother, or ever be a mother. The reason 50,000 different women don't have babies as of today may be different for each of those individual women. I don't think it would be wise to extend one blanket reason to all those different couples who can't have babies, even if God did get involved and have His reasons.
For all we have in common with other human beings, and even with animals, each of us is unique. People who believe in God would say that God designed us all to be individual and unique. "Blanket reasons" something happens in anyone's life just wouldn't seem to go with the kind of individuality that is built into Nature.
sorry i replied only seeing the title...well dont get into god wants , dont want theme...we as humans see things in too narrow prism...if we look at nature it is too vast and one can safely conclude that even if god exist , it doesnot at all intefere in how nature operates...nature is auto pilot system...if a woman is not conceiving there can be many reasons to it...instead of seeing as something wrong...we need to focus on way and means to let it work for it...let us take example of god wants theme...suppose it happens as per what god wants and doesnot want theme...then those who get aborted too is what god wants..otherwise god would make sure that abortion doesnot happen..if same way girl child is killed in many place in eastern part of world...now what did god want?...first girl child to be born and then to be killed?...god has nothing to do with it...so dont get into such themes...
In the presence of the Father before the world was we were all spirit individuals with our own strengths, talents and things we needed to work on. Being such we were given specific objectives to accomplish. Each person's objective is customed to the needs of that specific person. Yes, eternal life is an objective for all but there are "little" missions we are given in life to help us accomplish that.
Being barren is not a sin nor is it the fault of Eve. Adam and Eve are to be honored and held high for their choices. Were it not so we would not even be here. Motherhood is of the highest honor. It is a station next to godlihood. For those not able to bear biological offspring motherhood is still available to them. This high station can be put into affect through them through adoption, mentoring and just being a good motherly example in their greater environment. People are strategically placed in their path for mutual benefit. These "other mothers" are provided the opportunity to express motherly virtues to those specific people who need that from them. It is part of the grand design and magnifies the grandeur of the care each of us receive.
When all is said and done and it's time for judgement they will be granted the same blessings as other mothers. However, equally deserving all must be worthy of their blessings and rewards for faithfulness.
I believe in all species there are natural afflictions. It is something that just happens. It doesn't mean that person wouldn't have been a good mother or a bad mother or that they were never meant to have a child. It just means their body had an affliction at birth or after that would prevent natural birth. God allows things to progress naturally! Just as some are born blind or mentally disabled--it isn't because they are being punished. It's natural. It doesn't happen often, but it is something that happens in all species from time to time!
I think here one should remember the case of Elizabeth a sister of Mary:
[19:1] In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful.
[19:2] Kaf Ha Ya ‘Ain Sad.
[19:3] This is an account of the mercy of thy Lord shown to His servant, Zachariah.
[19:4] When he called upon his Lord, a secret calling,
[19:5] He said, ‘My Lord, the bones have indeed waxed feeble in me, and the head glistens with hoariness, but never, my Lord, have I been unblessed in my prayer to Thee.
[19:6] ‘And I fear my relations after me, and my wife is barren. Grant me, therefore, a successor from Thyself,
[19:7] ‘That he may be heir to me and to the House of Jacob. And make him, my Lord, well-pleasing to Thee.’
[19:8] ‘O Zachariah, We give thee glad tidings of a son whose name shall be Yahya‡. We have not made any one before him of that name.’
[19:9] He said, ‘My Lord, how shall I have a son when my wife is barren and I have reached the extreme limit of old age?’
[19:10] He said, ‘So it is.’ But thy Lord says, ‘It is easy for Me, and indeed I created thee before, when thou wast nothing.’
http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/sh … .php?ch=19
What a cruel god to inflict this. Disgusting.
He may have something greater in store for you.
What would your evolutionary point of view say about it?
She was just evolved that way, and tell her to live with it?
It's perfectly within the framework of evolution to give these kinds of results (and worse), so we should just accept them, NO?
This is perfectly normal and natural. Some genes do not get passed on to the next generation. No biggie. We are after all - merely animals. Chances are these genes will not die out with this single organism.
Unless something can be done to reverse the problem and make it so she can have children - she has no choice but to live with it. Unless you know of another alternative that I am missing?
Yes - we should accept them after exploring the options to reverse the problem. It is not worth fighting against things you can do nothing about. This is how nature works.
Unless you want to deal with it by inventing a fantasy where there is a bigger plan u r just too stoopid to unnerstand as the OP seems to be doing. I mean - I get that - I just wish it didn't make people into such obnoxious zombies afterwards. An unfortunate side effect of blocking reality in this way seems to do that to people. Look at you - attacking what actually happens in the world as being the fault of the theory of evilution. Apparently it bothers you quite a lot that there is a plausible theory to explain where humans came from. Not really sure why this is so, but I suspect it is your religious beliefs. If it wasn't so funny - it would be sad.
Some females (and males) are incapable of reproduction. For a number of reasons - some of which are reversible using modern scientific techniques - some of which are not. If you believe in a god and credit this god-thing with making it possible for some women to reproduce - surely this is god's doing?
I don't believe in the god-thing, therefore I don't feel the need to attribute everything that happens to it. Nature just is as far as I am concerned. I do not feel the need to fool myself that I am anything other than a tiny part. I do not need to pretend there is a big plan and any setbacks I face are a part of that plan. This is very, very limited thinking - and I am not arrogant enough to think I am that important.
Yes we do need to accept the reality of our situation, although that might be a very difficult thing to do. There are different stages of grief and denial is one of those...
If a woman is unable to have children it means she's unable to give birth, it doesn't mean she's unable to be a mother. sheesh! even in the Bible there was adoption & foster homes...Moses is one example....
Some women are not meant to be mothers. This is not to suggest that adopting and fostering children is not an amazing thing. And, there are some women who want the experience of giving birth to their own children. There are also women who cannot afford the adoption process. Sheesh!
the question you asked was - Is being a mother God's Will?
for an atheist, the answer is NO! lol
I agree, some women are not meant to raise children while others are unable to give birth, and who are we to suggest that neither are meant to be mothers? Giving birth, even if by way of miscarriage or a stillborn child, still makes the woman a mother. Raising a child, whether or not the woman gave birth to said child, still makes the woman a mother.
I don't see a problem here, regarding whether being a mother is God's Will. However, the means of motherhood could be considered God's Will.
If a woman wants to be a mother but cannot give birth, the best thing to do is accept it and find an alternative route - there is no shame in it! As for affordability, surprise surprise, there is adoption assistance available. Who knew?
I'm referring to women who want to experience child birth themselves. I have had friend's whose life's dream was to have and raise their own children. They would not even consider adoption. Very sad.
I have had 3 friends adopt and none of them qualified for assistance. I'm not talking about wealthy people either. I'm talking about single, low to middle income families. It'd be nice if the price were a bit more within reach. The process of being accepted as an adoptive parent would still be as thorough.
anyone who fails to seek alternatives sets themselves up for heartache.
another option is to accept the alternative of being a positive influence in a child's life without actually being a parent because that's essentially what a parent is. A positive influence.
There are women who spend their lives wanting to be a parent of children they conceive, give birth to, and raise. Having a positive influence on any life is wonderful, but not quite the same for some women.
I would imagine it wouldn't be the same for any woman who desires to be a mother. But, if a woman is unable to conceive, or be a mother, she could still be a positive influence on a child's life and would be better off by seeking such alternatives. (meaning, she would benefit just as much as the child)
I do not believe that if a woman is unable to conceive that God does not want her to be a mother. God has given the world many types of mothers. Mothers who carry, deliver, and raise their children. Mothers who carry, deliver, and allow someone who is not able to physically carry a child become a mother. I have two beautiful children. One that is a product of fertility and one that was a wonderful surprise conceived traditionally. I never thought that God did not want me to be a mother, I just trusted in his plan for me. For whatever reason, I was meant to experience that challenge in my life. Maybe it was to appreciate my children more than I would have.
You have obviously never experienced the heartache of infertility. The urge to bear children is biological -- stronger in some than in others.
I fail to see how there is ANYTHING selfish about adopting a child or becoming a foster parent? It may satisfy a need in oneself, but it also helps the child.
BTW, when a couple are unable to conceive, it is not always the woman who is "barren." Sometimes the guy is shooting blanks and doesn't know it, or his will swimmers are doing water ballet instead of the crawl.
I'm just sayin...
First, please do not suggest that you know me or what I have or have not been through. You don't know what I have experienced.
Second, I did not say that adoption or fostering a child is selfish. In fact, if you read my reply to Rafini, I stated that adoption and fostering children is an "amazing thing".
Third, whther it is the woman or the man, the fact remains they may be unable to conceive. I am not suggesting it is 100% the woman's fault or responsibility.
I do believe that sometimes we must accept our path, even though it may not be what we "want".
You are right, Helpful Hanna. I know absolutely nothing about you or what you have been through.
However, anyone who can make statements such as "some women are not meant to be mothers" or even use the word "selfish" in connection with wanting a child, or suggesting they should
"accept it with the first sign of difficulty or challenge" or this is "not always about what we want" has a very different view of the matter than I do.
Perhaps your attitude actually comes from personal experience of having to reconcile being one of those women who are "not meant to be mothers."
If I had given up at the first sign or challenge and assumed God didn't want me to be a mother I would not have my son.
You obviously have a very sheltered view of motherhood. Not all women are meant to be mothers! A 15 year old wanting a child so she has someone to love is "selfish". And there are women who have children simply to get government assistance. Are you honestly suggesting that every woman who wants to be a mother should be? Some women have too many of their own issues to nurture a child. Some women are too selfish to care for someone else. Some women are neglectful, abusive, or drug addicts.
Again, you are assuming you know something about me. Whether I am meant to be a mother, whether I am a mother, whether I would be a good mother or a bad mother, or whether I have struggled with becoming a mother is not your concern. Perhaps you should focus on parenting your son
I don't intend to interfere with your discussion with MM, but I wanted to say a few things....
I'm a firm believer in: Every life has a purpose.
When a woman who "wasn't meant to be a mother" gives birth, perhaps she's giving birth to someone who will grow up to be an important person for the world. Perhaps she'll give birth to someone who will grow up to be the parent of someone who will be an important person in the world. You never know.
I'll give a short example:
My mother-in-law had four children, her oldest daughter had three children, her oldest daughter had one child before being murdered when her son was 2 years old. This 3rd generation mother's life could have had the purpose of putting her murderer in prison - you never know. Her 2 year old child is now 12 years old - it's always possible he could grow into an important person for this world...you never know.
Now, What if my mother-in-law's mother hadn't had children?
You don't know anything about me at all and why are you getting this attitude?
The women you are talking about here ARE mothers. They HAVE children. Whether or not they SHOULD be mothers is not the question. The question is -- or was -- some women are not MEANT to be mothers.
A 15 year old is not a woman -- she is a girl.
Yes, some women have children and are not good mothers. Are these women meant to have kids or not? Cuz they have them.
I don't have a "sheltered" view of motherhood at all. I've seen all of the types of mothers you describe below in action by working with alcoholics/addicts. I have friends whose teen daughters have had babies.
What is with you and the word "selfish" anyway?
I really don't get at all where you are coming from but am getting a lot of anger from your posts.
As for parenting my son -- yeah, thanks for the reminder. I almost forgot to parent him! Perhaps I wasn't really meant to be a mother after all.
No smiley face.
I believe you said there is nothing selfish about wanting to be a mother. I disagree. There are many selfish women who have children for purely selfish reasons. Just "cuz" someone has a child doesn't mean they are meant to be a mother. We could go back and forth on this with no progress. You don't know me and I don't know you. I am simply posting a topic for discussion. Perhaps you should not reply to this post. Please save yourself the time.
Well she isn't so mighty and you aren't so nice
Hanna what do you exactly mean... I understand that some people are too selfish to have children partially why I don't have any at the moment.... nor planning any but I know there are many times where women who are parents don't take enough time for themselves because they "feel selfish" when this can help them continue to be parenting in the best possible way but of cause its all everything in moderation....
The only Mothers not meant to be "Mothers" are the ones who kill their children--like the lady who drove her two small sons into the lake and claimed some guy kidnapped them all because she wanted a man who didn't want kids! Those are the types of women that shouldn't have children! They lack compassion, empathy, love, and that natural mother's instinct that instills in a woman to protect her child even at the cost of her own life! These type of women put their own wants above the needs of their child...thus they should never have had children in the first place!
There are many reasons why a woman can't have a child.
Fertility,health issues to carry,not compatible with the other person,etc.
I lived with a guy and left him to have a child,he had a vasectomy prior to meeting me and wanted no more kids.
The next guy I was with and got engaged to for some reason we could not conceive.Fertility shots and all I could not get pregnant.Dodged a bullet he turned out to be abusive.
The next guy I dated I conceived,without assistance from anything.
It's all in God's plan.
With modern technology and modern medicine God has given the knowledge to doctors to address most issues with childbirth and bearing children. They're even able to treat the festus while still in the womb.
I agree with Rafini:
anyone who fails to seek alternatives sets themselves up for heartache.
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